Functional Fourth Trimester
Functional fourth trimester is a podcast series for new parents- covering common postpartum challenges, practical strategies, and featuring conversations with parents and healthcare professionals.
Functional Fourth Trimester
Breastfeeding Challenges: Normalizing the Struggle
Use Left/Right to seek, Home/End to jump to start or end. Hold shift to jump forward or backward.
On this episode, we talk with guest speaker Amy Wise all about her breastfeeding experience. We discuss triple feeding, oral ties, and common breastfeeding challenges. We also provide ways to help support new mom's as they learn the challenging task of breastfeeding. Breastfeeding is not always an easy and innate experience, and that's ok.
Blog post: https://thepostpartumot.com/blog/
Welcome to Functional Fourth Trimester, a podcast created to support new parents as they return to daily life after having a baby.
SPEAKER_00Each episode will talk through common postpartum challenges, share practical education and strategies, and hear from real parents and healthcare professionals along the way.
SPEAKER_01Whether you're listening during a feeding, a walk, or a quiet moment, this space is for you. I'm Lauren.
SPEAKER_00And I'm Melissa, and we're excited to jump right into today's topic.
SPEAKER_01Breastfeeding, one of the most talked-about challenges when it comes to postpartum. Whether breastfeeding or bottle feeding, there can often be challenges with feeding your infant. Maybe it's latching, maybe it's pain, maybe it's getting into a good routine, or having the proper education on how to breastfeed. So many factors are involved with feeding a newborn. Today we are going to be talking about all things breastfeeding.
SPEAKER_00I'm happy to introduce our guest today, Amy Wise. Amy is a mom and occupational therapist. She has a certification in functional diagnostic nutrition. She founded Wise Living Health and Wellness, which is a holistic occupational therapy and functional health practice. Amy is passionate about educating and empowering families with the right tools and strategies so they can transform their health and truly thrive.
SPEAKER_01Welcome, Amy. Thank you so much for joining us today. Thanks for having me. I would love to start off with just hearing a bit about your postpartum feeding experience and what that looked like for you.
SPEAKER_02Yeah. So I have two kiddos. Um, they're now four and two, both boys. And we'll start with my first postpartum experience. You know, you come in, I mean, that was during I had him in 2021. So I didn't get to do the traditional hospital classes or anything. So that plays into, I think, my story a little bit because I was just gonna wing it. I was a feeding therapist, pediatric OT. I felt pretty prepared, but then nobody really prepares you for your breastfeeding journey if it doesn't go smoothly, I feel like. Um, which mine did not. I saw lactation every day in the hospital, so I had a C-section. So I stayed the five days, so I saw lactation every day and tried something new every day. And then, you know, the latch wasn't he wasn't latching well. If he did, it was painful. I was sent home and just overwhelmed by milk coming in and like not at all knowing what to expect there as a first-time mom. And then like an oversupply issue, which was stressful, and then like my baby wasn't latching, or there was pain, and then he was dropping weight, and bilirubin counts were an issue too, because he wasn't getting enough nutrition, so then we had to supplement. So there were all things involved, and I ended up doing triple feeds, so that was basically latching him, working on that latch, working on feeds at the breast. And then if it was too frustrating or he wasn't getting it, then I would pump, um, which most of the time that's what it looked like. I think the longest he ever latched was like eight minutes, um, and then pumped and then fed through a bottle. At one point, it was even like half breast milk, half formula, because then my supply was dropping because he wasn't latching good and all the things.
SPEAKER_00Like with triple feed. So when I hear that, I think of three things. So by saying that, do you mean you're trying to latch him and get him to breastfeed? And then you're moving on to pumping and then bottle feeding, or is the third thing where you're talking about doing the mixture of breast milk and formula?
SPEAKER_02So the third aspect is the bottle, and whether that be just breast milk or combined, I almost want to say if it's combined, is that you know, quadruple feed? I don't know.
SPEAKER_00I mean, that's if I'm like, I feel like because pumping, I mean, that's all too. So, like, yeah, and you have to clean all that stuff. Like, you're trying to feed, you're already stressed out, and then you have to pump, you have to clean that up, and you have to bottle feed and you have to clean that up. And you're draw, he's dropping weight in belly ruben. Like, that's a lot of stress.
SPEAKER_02Yeah. The second go-around was um kind of started similarly with um latch pain, kind of a poor latch, but we got it figured out enough to where it was just hurting me, and he wasn't inefficient or dropping weight, but I still worked with lactation every day at the hospital and then followed up with lactation, many, many different lactation consultants, like probably over seven or eight, and then through my second feeding journey was just very much determined to get that figured out. Tongue ties also played a part in that, got them assessed and kind of made the best decision with all the different providers that I worked with and got the latch figured out to where I was no longer in pain, and we had a much more successful feeding journey.
SPEAKER_01Seems like your first experience postpartum helped with the second a little bit because you knew a little bit more about like what are the different options of what I can do with this? Like, what am I gonna work with a lactation consultant on? So I feel like having that experience initially hopefully helped.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, I think it also just made me more determined in to not go that route. Yeah, definitely. And like to really just get it figured out because you know, a lot of moms talk about how easy it is and how innate breastfeeding is and how it shouldn't be difficult. So I was comparing myself to my friends, and I was like, I'm not experiencing this the same way at all. So that aspect was very challenging, I would say, because I have not had an innate experience of breastfeeding. It always took like a lot of work for me.
SPEAKER_00That would be for sure be challenging. I I know that I have always told moms that a fed baby is the best, like that's really the most important. But then you have your journey at the same time. Like not all moms want to breastfeed, and that's okay. But if you're a mom that wants to breastfeed and you come to it with all these challenges that are causing you a lot of distress when you're already in that postpartum period, which comes with a lot of overwhelm anyway.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, and I think it's so important to point out that it's not something that's super easy and innate for everybody. A lot of the times it is a learning curve to it, and there are problems and challenges, and it can be really tricky to figure out what the problem or challenge is and also like what to do about it, especially if you are really wanting to continue the breastfeeding. Um so I think it's super important that we point that out because I think a lot of new moms are also experiencing something similar where they feel like everybody says that this is easy and it should come naturally, but in reality, a lot of the times it doesn't.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, I think it would have been helpful for me if I heard all the other people's journeys about how it wasn't as easy. I think that would have been helpful for my mental state. Yeah.
SPEAKER_01What do you feel like some of the biggest challenges with breastfeeding, whether it was your with your first kid or a second, were just balancing like the triple feeds because well, and the oversupply.
SPEAKER_02That was really stressful, actually. Um, I would like get a shower and you know, use the what is it called? Like that suction cup, the haka. Yeah. I would use that like in the shower, like get just getting out of the shower. I would produce like an ounce or an ounce and a half of milk. And uh that was just something I never knew happened. And that's very stressful when you're trying to get out of the shower and you're like, I'm losing milk. Like this could be going to my baby, you know. And then like with an oversupply on one side, like then you're might be drowning your baby who's having like some oral motor dysfunction or latch issues. So then it's like, oh my gosh, like trying to balance that. That was really stressful. But then as things leveled out, just balancing like the triple feeds, because by time I did all of that work, it was like, okay, you have an hour with your baby to do play or a nap, and now it's time to do it again.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, just the routine of it and having time to do it all. I think even if you're just breastfeeding, like without the triple feeding aspect, it can feel like all of a sudden you're done and you have barely any time, and then you've got to start over. So I'm sure with the triple feeding, that's even more so exaggerated because it just takes so much longer.
SPEAKER_02Definitely. Because I I still think the same thing to be true for my second, like who's primarily breastfed um at breast. And it was just like just that sense of like groundhog's day or like doing the same thing repetitively every two to three hours.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, I would love to hear too if you feel like any of your experience as a pediatric feeding OT, like what if any of that kind of helped you understand your breastfeeding experience a little bit better?
SPEAKER_02As a clinician, I feel like I'm educated and well prepared to um advocate for myself. So I just remember like the first couple appointments that you take your baby to. Like I'm just really stressed about the weight gain and um the feeding issues, and I didn't get like any information. And I just remember there being like questions that I had and getting very little answers, and I just left the appointment like baffled because I have a master's degree, I'm an OT, like I know enough that I could figure it out, but just knowing that not everybody, not near enough people, are equipped with that um experience, um, and then it's just going to be a lot more challenging if they're not getting all of their questions answered or even know what to ask, because like I I knew what to ask, and I just felt like I wasn't getting information readily. It was like you had to ask.
SPEAKER_00So, do you have a few things from your experience that you could tell a mom now that would be good questions to ask when she is going to her doctor or a lactation or whatever it might be to kind of propel her a little bit farther forward on the journey since you went through all of this?
SPEAKER_02I think those questions were really specific on like, how do I do the triple feeds, or like how do you combine breast milk and and formula, like all the things that nobody teaches you? Because I don't even think lactation, I mean maybe they did, but I don't think that they went over that with me. It was like primarily focused like getting the baby to latch and feed. So, like logistics of like bringing baby home and actually getting the baby fed were not fully addressed. And so that's like when I went into that first pediatrician appointment, and I'm like, well, how do I continue to feed my baby if they're not latching well or like all of that? But then other questions were just like tips, I would say, like, use your resources. I changed pediatrician offices, so the second pediatrician they actually had lactation in their office, which was really helpful because each appointment I went to, I followed up with lactation and like tried to workshop it with them. I would just encourage moms to like again use use their resources, check for ties, oral ties. Um if they're having nipple pain, know that that's not something that they should grin and bear and to kind of problem shoot like why that's happening. Um, with their lactation consultants, I would I wish I would have been prepared as to like know my free lactation um support groups to attend. That is a big one. I feel like more places are offering that, which is huge.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, that's awesome. And I think it's it's important to point out too that even as a pediatric feeding OT, like even as someone who's familiar with kind of what this world looks like, it can still be so challenging when you're actually figuring it out for yourself and actually in it. So then imagine like somebody who has never even heard about a lot of this stuff, how much more challenging it might be for them as well. And I think you make such a good point talking about just the lack of education. There's just not much education being provided in terms of how to actually breastfeed. You know, you think, oh, it's just, you know, I just put the baby on my breast and I'm good to go. Like it's so much more complicated than that. And there's so much more to it. So I think there could be a lot more support and education offered for sure.
SPEAKER_02Another thing I would say is like prepare if you could take a breastfeeding class before first, that would have been really helpful, I think.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, I bet because I know you mentioned one of your kiddos was um right after the pandemic. So I know like you were limited in terms of being able to take classes, you said. But I think those classes are so, so valuable, especially in terms of being able to prepare yourself before you're actually in the, you know, the postpartum period.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, even if it's like a breastfeeding 101, what to prepare yourself for, like that would have been helpful before birth. Because, like, I mean, sometimes it doesn't work out that way, but even if you're getting exposure and knowing what to expect, it would be helpful. Um, because I think I went into it again just thinking it was going to be natural and easy, and I would just figure it out.
SPEAKER_01Was there anything in particular that you found like was really helpful for you while learning how to breastfeed, whether that be with like the latch itself, positioning, getting into a routine of things, like anything in particular that you found really helpful for you?
SPEAKER_02Positioning was huge. Ultimately, that is what helped my second be successful is just different positioning. Um, one great tip I encountered was leaning back with like an oversupply to slow the flow down, which with my second, I think one side was painful because that was the side that was a quicker flow. And so he was compensating and trying to like clasp down on the nipple to slow it down, which was why it was causing me pain. It took me seven or eight lactation consultants as an OT. I'm so embarrassed to say that, to know that leaning back was the answer.
SPEAKER_00I love that you didn't stop at just one though, and you went to other ones until you could kind of figure out how I can make this work for me. And I love how you're sharing the journey of how it was different with both kids. Um, it was a process with both. It's really common for one baby to be completely different than the second baby or the third baby. And so I think this is really important for moms and families to understand and that you know it is okay. It's important to advocate for yourself and to go get the help and the support you need and move on to somebody else and see if they can help you. Although that had to be a lot to keep finding different people to go meet with different lactation consultants, different people that ask and continue to tell your story and what's going on. You know, well, you're just you just want to feed your baby. Like, who can help me just figure this out so I can feed my baby?
SPEAKER_02Well, like I said, it was helpful. I mean, I saw lactation every day, so I saw multiple lactation consultants in the hospital and then multiple through my pediatrician's office. So it wasn't like me going out of my way, um, except for I think just that one outpatient appointment that I had, which was nice. I did get the oral ties checked out too, but um, it was kind of like one of those cases where it was borderline, they could laser the tie. I was again determined to figure it out, and then I did end up like getting it figured out, so I didn't do the the oral release.
SPEAKER_01And do you mind too briefly explaining like what when we say oral tie or tongue tie, like what does that mean for people who maybe haven't heard of that?
SPEAKER_02Yep. So just like a restriction, there can be multiple different ties, but you can see, you know, under the tongue, if there is kind of like the skin attached to prevent the tongue from really protruding or elevating, like going up in the mouth. Um, there are cheek ties, and those are not as common, but um can definitely impact feeding and then the upper lip tie. So, like inside the lip on the top, there would be another tie there that would potentially impact the latch. But I had, I mean, I could assess that, but I wanted a different professional because as a professional I'm a mom first, and you kind of have your mom mom hat on. So I always like to use my resources and collaborate with others, which I think that's important.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, you know, you help other use other people to help you kind of figure out what the best step is moving forward.
SPEAKER_01Another question I had was like, when do you feel like it would be time for parents who are like struggling at home with feeding to really reach out and like get some extra resources, whether that be a following up with their doctor or a lactation consultant? Like at what point do you feel like you would say that that would be recommended?
SPEAKER_02If they are struggling with any part of it, like I said, I would for sure get enrolled in like or go to one of those free lactation support groups to troubleshoot some things. And they can always talk to their pediatrician about their concerns. But um I think it's important to note that there are other providers dealing with more of the hands-on aspects like lactation consultants or like, you know, OTs, PTs, whatever their concerns are. You know, a lot of times the therapists or you know, lactation consultants are the ones doing more of like the hands-on assessment. I I would just say if you're struggling at all, like use your resources. Don't be afraid to think that you've got it, you know, you're supposed to have it by yourself. We're not meant to do everything by ourselves. So I think that's important.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, definitely. And you make a good point too of it doesn't hurt to get help early on because it, you know, it's better to go ahead and get help earlier in the process versus like waiting a while and really just struggling. And, you know, that might be more taxing on your mental health. That might cause, you know, more issues with your new infant. So reaching out as soon as you're kind of starting to struggle, I feel like is a good, a good um idea.
SPEAKER_02Don't be afraid to share how you're feeling with your support system, uh, your partner, your friends, or your providers, and or your providers because postpartum can be isolating, lonely. I think trying to just share your feelings is important to um cope with all of it.
SPEAKER_00I do have one final question for you. So is there anything you do within your Space that is supportive for families during the postpartum period.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, so I have newly offered mobile OT services for postpartum moms, and um in addition to my functional health side of things, which I was supporting moms and families virtually, but now I am offering more in-person support. Not only am I offering like OT services for babies or to others or kids, I'm also hoping to offer more postpartum OT support. So supporting the mom's mental health, roles, routines, positioning, feeding baby, um all the different areas that we look at in a whole person to be able to do and function in our occupations in our daily life. So I am serving clients within a 20-mile radius of Barnhart, Missouri, which is just south of St. Louis, Missouri. I will go outside that radius. Just depends on where that might be. But yeah, that would be my mobile, my mobile services. But I do offer like the functional health um side of it or OT-style consults, like if it's in Missouri, but the functional health aspects, you know, I do like functional testing and coaching, lifestyle coaching virtually.
SPEAKER_01Thank you so much to our guest speaker, Amy, for joining us today and talking all about her breastfeeding experience. I hope if you are a new parent listening to this and really struggling with breastfeeding right now, you were provided with a reminder that it is not always an innate, easy experience. And it can be really challenging, and there can be a big learning curve with figuring out how to breastfeed. We plan to have even more episodes coming up in the future related to the feeding topic, talking about bottle feeding, formula, all those kind of topics. So stay tuned for some future episodes. I'm also going to be attaching the link to our blog post in the description. We'll have links to Amy's website, all about her business, and also I'll provide some more resources and tools for if you're needing some more help and assistance with breastfeeding. Thank you all so much for joining us today. We can't wait to talk with you guys again next time.
SPEAKER_00I hope today's conversation gave you something practical to take into your day or simply remind you that what you're experiencing is normal. Returning to daily life after birth is a process and support matters.
SPEAKER_01However, your day continues from here, be gentle with yourself. You're doing important work. Thanks for listening. We'll meet you back here next time.