Episode 1 - The HERO Podcast Premier

Welcome to The Hero Podcast, brought to you by the Ulster County Sheriff's Office.  Join host CO Hyland Winnie and co-host Connie Carr as we take a deep dive into the growing world of First Responder Wellness.

Transcript

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Good morning, and welcome to the first episode of the Hero Podcast, probably brought to you by the Ulster County Sheriff's Office Wellness Division. I'm your host, Highland Winnie. I'm a 25-year-old, 25-year correction officer with the division. Um, in the studio today, we have our department head, Connie Carr. Good morning. Good morning. And she will be my co-host on this venture. And also in studio today, we have Officer George Hill. Good morning, George. Good morning. How are you doing? Doing all right. So as we get started, I have to give credit to Paul Uden on Pixabay for our theme music. And um George is in today to talk about what the Hero Program is. It stands for Helping Every Responder Overcome. And you are the program creator. Give us a little background. So background on the program? Yes. Okay. So we started this venture probably five, six years ago at least. What happened was the sheriff was looking for a wellness program. We knew that a standard was going to be dropped by DCJS at any moment, and we had to have some sort of plan in place. We ended up having a SISM team, and that was established by Harry Van Vliet, Alan Rao, and Joe Murray back in 1997. So we had a good basis to start from. I think you know the major difference between that programming and what we were looking to actually create was something proactive. When it comes to the SISM, it's going to be reactive measure. Like some sort of incident had to happen. So when it comes to the wellness, we're looking at how are we going to educate and then also create resiliency within the workforce. So one of the things that we looked at was what are the training programs out there? What do they got? And we traveled the country when it came to you know different types of programming out there. Some of the things that we really started to focus on was, you know, was it evidence-based? And you know, how long is this going to stick around? Because a lot of these mental health programs, for some reason, it's a flyby night, somebody sells you $30,000 worth of product and then they disappear. So myself and Joe Decker ended up going around and and figuring out what program is going to work. When it came to the the hero program, um data will drive actual um criteria for us to look at, suicide being the number one. So we ended up finding out some suicide awareness training courses like Safe Talk. So that was one of them that we pegged in. And then we actually found like the the basis of the program, which is the FBI resiliency program. Um funny story with that type of situation was when I was in the military, um, they had the resiliency programming. And um when we actually went and took the FBI resiliency course, I was like, wait a second, I've taken this before. Um so we ended up doing a little bit of research on it and found out it was all based out of the Penn State University DoD resiliency officer program. So when we actually found, me and Joe went down to New Jersey, we took the course, we saw how New Jersey was launching it across the state. They actually enacted a couple of laws that was requiring agencies to do it. We knew New York was going to be very similar. Um, and then they trained everybody statewide, which was fantastic. Um, the problem that we saw there is from our experience from CISM, we saw programming rolling out and needed more. So instead of doing just law enforcement, we actually decided let's roll this out for all fire police, EMS, dispatchers, um, because that worked for SISM. So when we actually had the programming and we knew what the training would look like, the next steps were how are we gonna roll this out? How many people do we need? Um so we met with the sheriff over a few-year process, um, and then we also had a couple of um partners across the state, Mahaneys, came in. Um Katie Katie Oldendowski came down and she helped us develop an actual policy, a procedure, and whatnot. We launched it with the the county. The county agreed to turn around and actually put some money and manpower into the situation. Um and then we ran a pilot program. And really what it came down to is a couple of surveys, a couple trainings, and then we just started rolling out. Um you've been with the department how many years now? So 26. I did 25 full-time and then I dropped down to part-time last April. Part-time being loosely loosely part-time. Still putting in the world. My wife thinks full-time or part-time is full-time, so um sometimes it is. What led you into getting into um Sism and Officer Wellness? Um, so when I was new, um, I was a fireman, I was an EMT, I was with the sheriff's office, I was all over the place, and I was just hungry for training. Um there was this training that mobile life at the time back in 2000 was rolling out called Sism. And I was like, no, I'll take that, you know, but I'll take anything. Um when I actually got into the course and took it, I started to recognize like really what it was. Um you know, when you're younger, you really don't think of how important it is, but for some reason that one stuck with me. Um and then we had 9-11, like a couple months later. So that just really solidified to me on how important it is to take care of our guys and girls in the streets. Um the components of the program, there's um yearly trainings and then refreshers, but what all goes into getting somebody on board and up to speed to be a resiliency officer and to be a useful cog in the wheel? So when we look at the structuring of the hero program, obviously the the person should be selected by their peers. The names kind of filter up to the administration. Once we get some good, vetted people, um, you know, people that other staff are gonna trust to have conversations with. So that's like a really critical piece. I can train a monkey to do anything, um, but you gotta have the right person in a position to do it. Um once they're selected, it's a five-day course. It's usually broken up throughout the whole year. Um and it doesn't matter what course you get first. Um you have the FBI resiliency, that's a three-day course. Um if we're doing it for like volunteer staffing, it could be a couple of weeks, nights, and a couple of weekends. Um the other components is Safe Talk, which is your suicide awareness training. Um and then there's another one, which is uh Safe Talk or excuse me, um, science of addiction. Um we call SOAR. It's usually a half-day course, and what that does is it really breaks down the chemical and electrical um physiological background of addiction and what that is and what it looks like. Um because that's an important component because when you look at the first responder compute uh community, you usually see some sort of compassion fatigue with addiction. Um so we really like to take it back down to the base of why are people reacting the way they are and acting the way they are on any type of addictive substance. Um so yeah, FBI resiliency, science of addiction, safe talk is our suicide, and then mental health first aid, which will be broken down into sp uh discipline specific for fire EMS. Uh it'll be broken down for public safety corrections, stuff of that nature. That course um is really designated as how do I have this conversation? Um, because a lot of times, you know, we see staff members, friends, and coworkers and whatnot. We're walking through the hallway, we know that something's not right. Um, so how do I actually have that conversation? Like we tell each other we're okay, we're fine, and um, we all know what that acronym stands for. Um but it's I'm seeing a problem and I care about my coworker and I want to have this conversation. So how do I do that? So that's a one-day course. Yeah. And it kind of breaks down a little bit too on different types of mental health disorders that you may experience or somebody may experience, um, so that you can kind of see the red flags of any type of situation where you can say, All right, I've seen this in you, so let's have a conversation about this. I think when you really put all the coursework together in a sense too, it's very destigmatizing. When you have a career field as what we have, um you see people with broken bones, you can fix it. You can see it, you can touch it. When we talk about mental health, uh it's not something you can see or touch. Right. So it's important to start destigmatizing and having conversations. Um so that way we can just start addressing some of the issues we got going on. Now, Connie, you come in uh as a licensed professional. Um, what was unique to this uh coming into this as opposed to your private practice? What what was so different in what adjustments did you have to make or um like what was specific to this that wouldn't wouldn't be um something that the general public would would be looking at? So I think you know for me coming in as a licensed clinical social worker um with the experience that I've had is the first responder culture. It's very important to know the first responder culture because it is that I'm fine attitude and just suck it up and go. And I think with the trainings that George was just talking about, it talks about how to work with the first responder community and being able to address the mental health and connect people with the services that they need. Did when you stepped in um to your role uh two years now? Yes, going on two years. Yeah. Um were you at all intimidated by I mean, because you have um your husband's in law enforcement, um, were you prepared for the stuff you were gonna see, or did did you learn anything new coming into it that like, wow, I I didn't really expect that, or oh, this is much more severe than I thought it would be? Um so having the background with first responders, with my husband being a first responder, uh myself going through the police academy, I did have that knowledge, but I feel the classes um because not only am I, you know, a social worker, but I took all the classes that we put our peers through. And I feel like those classes actually opened my eyes to a little bit more of how to talk to different um disciplines of first responders. So this part goes out to both of you and being in law enforcement for 25 years myself, it's always been rub some dirt on it, uh compartmentalize it, put in that filing cabinet, never deal with it. Um and then the stigma that comes with getting the help, oh, you guys are the hug squad, you guys, you know, it is but I I noticed uh being a field training officer that the younger generation coming in is much more accepting to getting the help that they need. Um I want you to both speak a little bit on the culture and the changes you guys see happening. Oh yeah. Suck it up, buttercup. You know what I mean? Um I I would definitely say that I saw it in my career, um, teaching in basic academies um across all the different fields. Um I yeah, late 90s, early 2000s, it was rub dirt on it and keep moving. Um we're not having this conversation, you know. And so I have to tell people if you have a brain, you have mental health. So this is like, you know, mind-blowing for a lot of people in a sense. Um but I'll definitely say in the past 10 years, we've definitely seen a different change when it comes to the uh the academy. Um I remember that sometimes we teach a basic mental health awareness course at the police academy, and we had a situation where um we try to trip them up. We do it with drugs, we do it with mental health, we do it with a couple different subjects, and um we kind of laid out this whole scenario and how that one of the officers is starting to have some issues, and you can see it right away on the scene, and what do we tell them? And um you just suck it up, buttercup is is pretty much what we're gonna tell them, right? And um, it was the first time an academy class was like, no, what are you talking about? Um so it put me in a position where I was like, oh oh shoot, like what's going on here? Um and then they raised their hands and they were like, just haven't talked to a counselor. And it was the first time in my career I've ever heard something of that nature coming out of somebody's mouth in our culture. And um, you know, scratching my head and trying to figure out what's going on, um, one of the students actually told me, Well, we've got them in the schools. So we've actually destigmatized the whole generation just by having the opportunity or the exposure of the mental health community in their environment already. And I think if you look at a lot of the diversionary programming um with mental health professionals implemented right at the operations level, you're starting to see that destigmatation happening where, you know, a lot of times socially people look at cops and it's just a badge, it's just a gun. Um we kind of did the same thing with the mental health community and we didn't humanize that person. So, you know, engaging the mental health community into our disciplines are important because I really truly believe it makes us a little bit more accepting of them and their profession into our community. I don't know, I and on the mental health side of the house, I'm not sure what your experience is. I think, you know, being here for two years, I've actually seen um I thought when I first came in, everybody's like, oh my god, she's like the hug squad. She's you know, she's gonna analyze us, but I've actually seen more people be very open with me, you know, talking with me in the hall. They see me as a person, um, not just the therapist that walks around. And I think that helps with when someone has something going on that they feel more comfortable to approach me in the halls. And I hope that they see that I'm not just the therapist or the hugs what I'm there for services, I'm here there just to chit-chat. Yeah. Visibility is such an important key if you're not seen and you're not seen actively doing stuff to help the men and women of the department and the community wide, it almost is counterproductive because it feeds back into the stigma. It it just allows them to continue to say, oh, well, what do they really do? Being out there and in the front and trying to be proactive for a field that is so reactive, I think is a definite important key of the whole thing being successful. Yeah. I I would also say, too, is um one of our major coping mechanisms is humor and whatnot. Right. So we all have sick twisted senses of humor in this field for it's it's what it's you become desensitized to so much serious stuff, yeah, that it's like, okay, well, I've seen this a hundred times. If I make a joke about it, you're gonna get it because you've probably seen it a thousand times. Yeah, it's almost like a ceiling that I need to break through. And you know, it's funny, hug squad. That was terminology that was used forever. And uh so I'll play on it, you know. If you call us the hug squad, great, cool. When do you want your hug? It's five bucks. You know, right and once I break through on that, then it's it doesn't have the bite that sometimes people want it to have. Yeah, if you can disarm them with that with that humor or giving it back to them, yeah. A lot of times it does open up that doorway. And I think the first responder community disciplines, they do really appreciate when people will give it back to them and they will engage with humor and stuff like that. Again, it's like a ceiling, you just break it and and keep going through it. Yeah. The next biggest question would be how do we moving forward continue to make our program succeed and get bigger and better? I know we were the pilot program for the the state of New York, um, which is amazing because it's a it's a big state, it's a tough state politically. Um what what what are the keys? Do you how what do you feel the keys are to keep being successful and to keep changing that perspective? Um, you know, me personally, um, when I look at it, first responders are pretty consistent. They need consistency. Building consistency, building trust. Um, that's definitely something that has to stay. Um, obviously the training, and then you're gonna have to adapt and overcome different generational differences, is really what it comes down to. Um, as time evolves, these will evolve. Because if we look at day one when the sheriff turned around and was like, George, you're gonna do this, um, even my mindset has been changed through experience on how people react to it. I think surveys are a consistently good check. Um, survey your your agency, make sure it's an outside survey because they are FOIAble. Um, but see what do your people want. Because you may have the Ulster County Sheriff's Office, they want finance and physical fitness. Those are the two top things that they want to help build them as a resilient uh workforce. You may turn around and find it's completely different in a different discipline or a different agency. So I would say, you know, train them, launch the program, but you gotta see what do the people want. You gotta keep adding the tools to the toolbox. Absolutely. And I know a lot of smaller agencies don't have the ability. Well, then that's why we approached it the same way we did with the SISM team. Bring Fire Police CMS all together and and do it as a family. We are a family as dysfunctional as we may be, um, but that's what's gonna get the job done. Connie, what do you see on your side of the fence um with getting other licensed professionals coming on board and working with the first responder community? Um, so that's actually one of the things that has been a big point of what I've been working on since I got into this team is making sure that there's culturally competent um social workers and licensed mental health counselors that we have connections with and bringing them on to the SISM team, making sure that if someone's coming in as SISM, you know, that they are culturally competent. Because, like you said, that dark humor, it comes out at times, and if you don't have someone that understands it or is aware, it's kind of shocking. Yeah. We're a normal, normal social worker out there. They're they're like, whoa, what's up, what's up, you know, but having someone, it's very important to have culturally competent social workers, and that is one of the things that I've been working on. And there are trainings coming down the pike to help social workers be more culturally competent. I think it's one thing to learn something from a book, but it's another thing to live the experience, have family members right now having more social workers, you know, retired police, corrections, dispatch going into the field and getting their social work degrees or their licensed mental health counselor degrees, I think that's awesome. Yeah, it's tough because I could sit and talk with George, but if George feels I need more intense uh therapies or additional counseling to go see a professional, if I go and sit down and the person is not relatable to me, it could be a turnoff and it could cause my. Harm than good, so getting people on board that are trained properly and understand our culture is definitely uh super important. But I'm lucky enough that it is the first episode of the podcast, and most of our team is here. So uh Brian Turner, come on on, come on on the scene. And I said I'm getting a look. Sit up. Uh Brian, welcome to the show. Hello. And um just give us a little bit about your background. Um I retired from the city of Poughkeepsie in 2023. I uh started with a team about 10 years ago, and um I help uh assist with the SISM team. And you're now an instructor as well? Yes. Um do you enjoy that aspect, being able to give back with all your user experience and to teach the up-and-coming officers or the or the people that have been selected to get into resiliency? I really enjoy teaching. I I also teach in the academy. Um, and I'll I'll teach mental health awareness, critical incident training, um, ICISF instructors, stuff like that. But I I really enjoy it at the beginning because I've been through most of this stuff, so I've seen a lot, and I think that I can contribute when I instruct to give them some real life scenarios of hey, you know, I'm a normal guy, I went through this stuff too, and this is how you get through the other side. George Did you just say normal guy? He did. So relatively normal. I'm too tall for you. George has been the kind of like the jack of all trades with in our department. He's held so many different positions, but it's been with corrections, with fire, with um first responder wellness. You come from a different background, you come from the police world. When you started in Poughkeepsie, from the beginning of your career to the end, how did you experience people? Um were they becoming more accepting of officer wellness, or was there a lot of pushback? How did that go for you? Well, that's part of the reason why um George brought me on the team is because I have the military background, um, fire, EMS, and all of that. So I feel as I could be a useful tool in that way too, because I can relate to different disciplines and uh, you know, talk their language. As far as the the cultural change, um City Poughkeepsie's a little rough when it comes to uh dark humor, and um you know you really need to utilize dark humor to get through some of the situations so you get a an even more um I don't know, gruff exterior uh to to kind of deal with those situations. Um might even say, my wife might even say a little cold and callous at times. Um but that's a defense mechanism that we have to use to get through that. Yeah, I think there's a a fine line you walk about having to sometimes maybe get into an uncomfortable situation to get to the comfortable situation to where somebody's willing to open up to you. And cops see I mean, yeah, being on the road and then being in the jail are two different things, but it's just an environment of negativity. And negativity breeds negativity, so getting people to reverse that mindset and be willing to accept the help is is tough but so important. Yeah, absolutely. We have another member of the team, I like to call him the legend, uh, Mr. Pat Carroll. Come on down. Pat is so Pat is so modest for the amount of um uh life experience and uh trainings and was at the beginning of setting this up with George and with one of my mentors, Lieutenant Joseph Decker. Um Pat, you got in um early on with the Oracle program. Correct. Um what I mean, we know I know what drove you to this, but w why is it so important to you? Oh geez, uh back then I had lost the child to uh overdose. So for me personally, it was a challenge. Uh I didn't want any other parent to go through the pain and suffering that we went through. Um the big challenges was the stigma. People just weren't buying substance use disorder. Um pretty much was hey, listen, let them die. Um it was a lot of that. It was a lot of hurtful things. Even during the trainings, we did a lot of trainings. George uh actually pushed me through some of the trainings. Uh learning more about re about the rehab process, about the addiction process was really useful. I dedicated my life to it. Uh it was a really rewarding program, and still I follow it and uh I follow whenever I have the opportunity to assist them, I'm more than happy to. Uh it's a program that's needed, it works. Uh Sheriff got the innovative award, I believe, and a couple other awards right in the beginning. So, yeah, that's come a long way. We started with just the four of us, I believe, was George, myself, uh Will Pressman who was gone, and John Gallo. So that program really worked out. I don't know how many people we got now. You must have about 30. Feels like it. Yeah. It's good that we're able to have it work for a department that is so willing to give us the resources that we need. Um throughout all your trainings, you've been all over the state and you've met a lot of people. What's the general consensus of Officer Wellness? I mean, how many people have you met that are are on board and wanting to push this program? Actually, I was really excited towards the end. Uh, after I retired, I was still involved with Oracle. And then when George got this wellness program coming up, I said, this is the next big thing. I could see it coming from left field. It was so innovative. Uh, there was another person that inspired me, Matt Griffin, and he came from the same thing, the the world of drugs. He was a detective, and I contacted him a few times and he said mental health and wellness is where it's at, Pat. And I said, geez, I respect this guy so much. He uh went on to write a book, which was a bestseller. He has a lot of different programs where he speaks at. I've been to two of them. Uh so I seen that, and I could see how mental health, substance use disorder, hand in hand. If we can control one, we can grab a handle on the other. Uh, and most of the times, that's what I seen from my experience. Something drove that person to the uh substance use disorder. It was mentally involved somehow. We need to take better care of our people, even our people in law enforcement in the first uh community, uh first responded community, excuse me. We uh we just ignored them. Um I've had some situations personally coming up where I was given ill advice going through some very difficult times and made me feel like don't trust the hug squad. And I have no problem bringing that out. I've brought that out many times before. I've gotten some really queer looks for saying it, but it's the truth, and I have no problem saying it. We don't have that no more. We don't have that. If you do this, they're gonna do that kind of way of thinking. Right. Right now we're supportive. We bring people in, we treat them the way they need to be treated, we get them the help that they need, and we give them the comfort and their family comfort. Uh you and I both worked on a case together, and it started off real sticky, and then in the end, it was a success story. I actually talked to the gentleman last night. I did too. I gave him your number. I appreciate that. But uh I think one of the most fulfilling things for me has been um, and you've been right alongside me, walking through the jail, just going into housing units and talking to the guys and gals because sometimes people are apprehensive to come forward with stuff, but we've gotten some good feedback and good information and been able to make um some real success with walking through and just sometimes just letting people vent is all they need. Absolutely. But allowing them and giving them a platform to feel comfortable enough to talk to somebody, there's nothing more fulfilling. We've made a lot of friends, and you know, thanks to you, you you're well received and over there. I've hardly know any of those guys. So going through with you broke the ice. Uh, we did make a lot of headway with people. I've got people now that if I come in late or if I miss a day, they'll say, Hey, where were you? They want to know where where I've been and what I'm doing. I'm like, well, got other responsibilities as well. So yeah, we've made big, big, big, big strides over in corrections, I believe. And we go over to the patrol side too. It's the same thing. That stigma is starting to fade away, just like it did with the Oracle program. And it's essential for it to go away because if it doesn't, we're just pushing a rock uphill. Yeah. We really are. You know, I was lucky enough to come aboard uh full time in January, and we've been able to put together some events, and we have some more scheduled, and we're starting to see more and more participation in getting people out and enjoy seeing our faces and not quick doing a new out face and walking away when they see us come in. Um, but I truly feel that everybody in this room, you too, Joe, uh are so important. Uh Mike Wilbur's not here. Um he's become my work husband. Uh but uh forming new relationships after 25 years in in the field has been amazing for me and great for my own personal mental health. So I truly believe that this program is a success and is only going to get bigger and better. Any uh final thoughts you guys want to add? No, I think we lit a fire in Ulster County that is now spreading across New York State. Um I I would say this will evolve, this will change, this will grow. Um but as I travel, myself and Joe Decker travel the state to teach the program. Um I'm seeing so many agencies and so many variations, and they are just like bear hugging it. Um because there's only so much trauma that people can absorb, and a lot of first responders are just tired and they want that reprieve. And I feel like the fire we started here is spreading across the state, and it's beautiful. It's beautiful. Let it burn. Yeah. Brian? I think it's important to bring up that um I hear from a lot of members, oh, it's the hug squad, and you know, you guys really just sit around and drink coffee and you don't do anything and all that. Um we do podcasts. Yeah, we do. But it's extremely important for the members to understand that confidentiality is number one. So you may not see what we're doing, and you can't really see what we're doing, but there's a lot that goes on behind the scenes that we just can't divulge. So what may appear that hey, we're sitting around drinking coffee or whatever like that, um, there's a lot going on in this podcast, you know, all the events we're doing, all the trainings we're doing. Um, but I think confidentiality kind of gets in the way sometimes of seeing, you know, that what we're actually doing. But there's a lot going on. It's just we can't always tell you about it. Right. Pat? Say I gotta support what Brian just said. Uh confidentiality, that is the key. Uh and that's sometimes the part of the puzzle that was missing. They didn't have that trust in the program, they didn't have any trust in the process, but they need to now understand that because we're not talking about it doesn't mean it's not happening. I think good things are happening. People are being saved. Absolutely. Connie? You know, I was gonna kind of go off of what George was saying is the how we're spreading. And I think a lot of people just see us at the sheriff's office, but we're not just the sheriff's office, we have spread throughout this county. I know in my two years of being here, I have gone through this county and other counties with this team, and that's the thing that we do is you know, we're not just for police, we are for all first responders, and that's the amazing thing that George and Joe set up here is that it's not just our agency, but we try to be like the connection to all other first responders in Ulster County and surrounding areas. No, well said, so um great first episode. Um, there's gonna be a lot more to come. I want to do deep dives at some point with all of you, Pat. Um, your background in physical fitness and uh the powerlifting community. Brian, you and I are working on something that hopefully will bear fruit for us later in the fall. I hope so. And um, George, we've been together since like pretty much our day ones. Yeah. So, and uh Joe will get him on at some point. Yeah, we'll get squeaky over. Yeah, and uh Mike will definitely be in. And then the what want to use the platform to be able to bring in guests from around the state covering all different topics of um first responder wellness and even things that you're tied up in the throes of everyday life, and all of a sudden you get to retirement and you're like, oh, what's next for me? How do I figure this out? Which is I'm I'm getting close, but I'm I'm not there yet, so which is good. Um, but there's gonna be a lot in store for the podcast. So with that being said, I want to thank um our sheriff Juan Figueroa for blessing us with this opportunity to be able to do it. Uh Captain Chad Story for being again supportive and giving us all the resources we've needed to make this happen. And uh we'll be back soon. Uh we're gonna be putting out bi-weekly episodes. Follow us on YouTube. I've been streaming them across the bottom of the screen. We also have an Instagram page. Give us a follow there. Everything helps. And uh Mike Wilbur taught me a great saying, and I think I want to end every episode by saying it is don't let the hard days win. So we'll see everybody back soon and take care.