The Wisdom & Wellness Podcast with Dr. Rachel Hill

Episode 1 - Beyond the Bedside: Integrating Faith, Herbs & Medicine for Nursing & Holistic Wellness

• Dr. Rachel Hill • Episode 1

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For so many nurses, the career that was once a calling has become a source of profound burnout and disconnection. 

You feel trapped, exhausted, and wonder if you’ve lost yourself completely along the way. If you’re tired of hearing that this is “just how it is,” then you are in the right place. This is your invitation to come home to yourself.

In this first episode of The Wisdom & Wellness Podcast, host Dr. Rachel Hill shares her personal journey of becoming a healer who bridges worlds. 

Guided by questions from her colleague, Dr. Lee C. Cordell, Dr. Rachel explores her roots in herbalism, her deep faith, and her extensive experience as a doctorally-prepared nurse practitioner. 

This is a story about refusing to choose between science and spirit, and instead, creating a path that honors the whole person. It’s a powerful reminder that you, too, have the power to rewrite your story.

In this episode, you’ll discover:

  • How to find the courage to integrate all parts of yourself—the clinician, the spiritual seeker, the healer—without needing permission from the system.
  • The profound connection between your emotions and your physical health, and how to begin listening to your body’s wisdom.
  • Why the most powerful healing modalities are often the ones that are free and accessible to everyone.
  • The true meaning of compassion fatigue and why the first step to healing others is having compassion for yourself.


Connect with Dr. Rachel:

SPEAKER_01

Hi everyone. Welcome to the Wisdom and Wellness podcast. I am not Dr. Rachel. My name is Dr. Lise D. Cordell, and I actually have the privilege of getting to work very closely with Dr. Rachel in a variety of settings. And so one of those settings is that we own a growth agency for leaders and business owners. And one of the things that we help our clients do is bring podcasts to fruition. And so when Rachel was like, hey, I want to do a podcast, I was like, Great. You're coming out to Ohio to do a day with us. And you were like, Can we do an episode? And I was like, Yeah, let's do that. So we wanted to do this episode in a really cool way. I wanted to actually like help you introduce yourself to your audience. And you're gonna have all these phenomenal guests on, and you're gonna be the one interviewing them and asking them all the questions. And when we talked about it, we thought it was important for people to understand where you were coming from.

SPEAKER_04

Right, right.

SPEAKER_01

And you love having conversations.

SPEAKER_04

I do. So we talk a lot.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, we both do. So I have a bunch of questions I want to ask you because I am so excited to help people get to know you the way I've gotten to know you because I think what you're doing with your multiple businesses, which we'll talk about. The trifecta. The trifecta. I think yeah, I know. I'm like, are you at a I think you're I think we call it four, not three. So I want people to hear about your multiple businesses. And I also wanted to be able to ask some questions that I know will really help the listeners get to know you and get to decide if this is something they want to listen to further, which I think they should.

SPEAKER_05

But absolutely.

SPEAKER_01

I know the question that you're gonna ask your guests as they come on to kick this off is how did you come to know what about wellness? Like, how did you develop and and collect your wisdom around wellness? It's like how did you come to know what you got you?

SPEAKER_04

It started from childhood. It started from childhood. I can remember when you go to grade school, you learn about Thanksgiving and the pilgrims and how they planted the corn and stuff. And I used to go with my grandfather out in the garden and he'd take the fish heads, put them in the ground, buy the tomato plants, and cover it up to fertilize the soil and things like that, and plant the little herbs, the poke salad, and stuff that he'd mix with the greens. And my grandmother was a clinical herbalist in her own right, and so there they would teach us about the moon cycles and agriculture, just with a simple little garden. And so I started thinking, wow, plants heal, plants make people better, and it just kind of blossomed into me getting into healthcare, medicines, and so gradually I just acquired herbal skills from gardening, neighborhood gardening projects, planting my own herbs and going into nursing, which evolved into holistic modalities, and so it just has blossomed from there where every single thing relates. I wasn't comfortable with thinking that one was better than the other, and there were so many like it's black and white, herbal medicine is primitive and Western medicine superior, and I was just like, I've seen the benefits of both from a childhood stage on into adulthood, so I see the benefits. That's sort of how I morphed into who I am, being able to bridge everything together because all of it has a purpose. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01

So one of your businesses is Hen and Moon apothecary, and that really covers a lot of that, like herbal aromatherapy, like nature's medicine.

SPEAKER_00

Absolutely.

SPEAKER_01

And you blend that with the like very high level of education and expertise you have through being a nurse and a psych mental health nurse practitioner and an advanced clinician. And I love that I'm getting to ask you these questions because I know there's more here. So that's one of your businesses. You have these other three places. So one of them is professional continuing education, and the third one is your metamorphosis, holistic and integrative therapies, and then you also work in clinical practice in the mental health setting. So what led you to also feel called to incorporate those in? Because you you could, I know, like you could just have the apothecary, and yet I know it's really important to you to have these other arms. So, like, can you tell me a little bit more about how you came to develop wisdom in those areas?

SPEAKER_04

So, in a lot of ways, I feel like I'm cheating because I have Hinamun Apothecary, I have professional continuing education, I have metamorphosis, holistic, and integrative therapies. So maybe it might be easier for me to tell you the inception of all of those things. Yeah. So I started out as a nurse, became a family nurse practitioner, worked with a lot of hospice patients as a family nurse practitioner, where I started doing like salves and things like that. I had a son who was born with eczema, and so I was like, okay, none of the stuff I'm using is working for him. So as a family nurse practitioner, you treat your patients for dermatological issues and things like that. I was like, let me see what I can do. And I was teaching a continuing educational course in Warren'sburg, Missouri, and so I'm I'm treating folks with dermatological issues. My son has eczema and he's like a little baby alligator skin and everything. And so I'm doing a continuing education course for nurses on Jinchenjutsu, Japanese acupressure, and talking about the different things that they can do with their patients and stuff. And so I'm like, one thing on my bucket list is I want to learn how to make salves and soaps and products and everything so that I can integrate that and see where that fits in the piece of the puzzle. And there's a retired nurse that raised her hand and she's like, Hey, you can spend a weekend with me. I make soap. And so I was like, Bet. I was like, what are you doing tonight? Don't we have any plans? I already have my luggage packed because I was in Warren's Burgess for the night. I stayed with that lady for like 48 hours. We made nothing but different kinds of soaps and things. Came back to Kansas City after doing a continuing education course, started making soap for my son and salves for his skin and everything. He has beautiful skin now, but that blossomed into me thinking, okay, if I can help someone with eczema, maybe I can help someone with pain, maybe I can do this and do that. And so I ended up getting into some clinical herbology courses. Kayla Wheeler, that had a prairie-wise herbal school. So I took herbal classes between working as a nurse practitioner. I was pulling weeds on the side of the highway while crafting herbs and studying them, making my own medicine cabinets. When I say medicine cabinets, just main staple kind of tinctures and herbs for people for the holidays and stuff like that, so that they could have natural medicine in lieu of if they didn't want to take Tylenol or something like that. And so that was Hen and Moon apothecary, where I started making different things and hospices, the doctors would say, Hey Rachel, I wrote an order for some salve. And I was like, I don't know if you can do this. They wrote an order for a salve that's not from a pharmacy or anything, but I make a salve, give it to patients, and then the patients started asking. The family started asking because I was working with hospice patients, and then eventually I was a hospitalist at a major hospital, and the collaborating physician that I had called me down to the cafeteria. He said, This hospice wants to know if you could make some products for them. I told him you could. And so the CEO of this big hospice in the metropolitan area was like, Hey, we were wanting to know if you could make some oils. I was like, Bet that I already had a line of oils that I was using for different purposes. So that led into that. But I was already doing continuing education, just wanting to share my integrative knowledge that I was acquiring at the time, and that was like 20, 30 years ago. I know way more now than I did before about the mind-body medicine connections. But it was just like I was always dancing in those areas the whole entire time. So later on, I became a psychiatric nurse practitioner because I was in the hospital settings and people needed more mental support than what I could give them. And I wasn't comfortable with looking in a drug book saying, okay, I need to do this for them. Sometimes people need their handheld, sometimes people need someone who can pray with them. Sometimes people need someone who understands the depths of what they're going through and can identify, even though we're having different experiences, but can identify and hold space for them. And so I just kind of go doom doop doom. Bounce back and forth.

SPEAKER_01

Well, but I think it's a beautiful example of what a lot of people in healthcare like don't feel safe doing, which is like you're supposed to just specialize, right? You pick something and you go deep, and that's what you do. Absolutely. Maybe you change it like eight to ten years in, but like the idea that you're gonna do multiple things at once and not be like, I'm a this and this is who I take care of and this is how I take care of them.

SPEAKER_04

Absolutely. And it's interesting you say that multiple things at once. It seems like it's multiple things at once, and for some people on the outside looking in at me, they feel like I overwhelm them and everything with all the things that I do at once, but they all relate. Right. It's like if I'm making herbs, that's something I can teach. I can use for my patients, I could teach them about what the benefits are. That's something that I can teach healthcare providers what the benefits are. Even when I was doing unjutsu at a hospital for sickle cell patients, it was like the doctors would come down and be like, hey, I've got a headache. Do you think you could do some ginchenjutsu on me? Yeah. And when they see the value of it and they can actually see how quickly people can transform without having to run to the do the do they still call them Pixis cards? Oh, the Pixas, oh my god. They probably have new names for them.

SPEAKER_01

I don't know. I mean, I to give your audience some background, I think we're gonna do an episode where you're interviewing me or where we're having a conversation, but like I'm also a nurse practitioner. And uh I know five years ago they called it the Pixis, but now it's probably like the It's like how you call Kleenex for tissues, the medicine card, right? The medicine cards age mode. No, but no, like you're running to the very prescribed standard, this is the evidence-based, which we can talk about at a different time if you want, but like right, and now it is evidence-based.

SPEAKER_04

So we can quantify a lot of the things that we do, you know. Plants have a frequency, just this touch that we have, you megahertz are emitted, and other faith-based healing.

SPEAKER_01

It's like she's got her hand on my face. Can you feel it? Right, like the Pentecostal, like, and that's another form of healing, right? And that's I think something I wanted to pull forward because all of our clients are faith-centered, and you are such an example of being faith-centered and in the in a really holistic way of what how to be well like with God. And so, how do you know what you know in that realm? How do I know what I know in like the spiritual realm? Gotcha. I know this, I know you, so I know what I'm asking, and uh I think it'd be really good for the audience to hear.

SPEAKER_04

Well, interesting enough, I have been approached by a lot of people from spiritual communities who have been convinced that I'm full of witchery and things of that nature. But I think my freedom was my grandfather before he passed on his deathbed. He was like an interesting man. He was praying for people the day he died. He prayed for everybody, and when he got to my son, he was out after he had a piece of cake, and then he was like, See ya. But he was talking to me just in a regular conversation about keep doing what you're doing, and I had never heard the comparison of Jesus and the woman with the issue of blood and the laying out of hands and the exchange of energy. But it was like my grandfather had a clear window into what exactly had transpired in the Bible with Jesus and his healing and stuff, and he was telling me I believed Jesus when he traveled all those years, he was going around, when he was sharing what he knew. And I was just like, Wow, that makes a lot of sense. And as I've done my studies, I have heard of Jesus' journeys and his exchanges where different healing modalities and things like he made salves, he spit in dirt and put it in people's eyes and they could see and and everything. And so that is my connection that I am in the right place at the right time, and that we will do greater things than what people's little minds, little limited minds, have settled for that we can do just based off of society's perspectives of we're gonna die of something.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04

We could also heal of something too.

SPEAKER_01

You have challenged that a lot for me personally, of and I don't mean challenge in the sense of like like fight energy, but really invited me, I guess would be a better word of actually we were having breakfast before this, and I said something about like how I had had several people like tell me using a different healing modalities or other things, like, yeah, like there's some suffering here, and you were like, Who are they to speak that over you? Why why does that have to be painful? And I was like, Okay, hold on, let me recalibrate here. And I think it speaks to like when I think of the word holistic, and I'd love to hear how you really define that and what that means to you, but when I think of it, number one, you're one of the very first people who comes to mind. And number two, it's really this idea of like it you're not gonna restrict yourself to that one lane and be like, this is the way that it works, and if if anything else works, it's bad and wrong, and that can't be it. And so, how do you define holistic wellness?

SPEAKER_04

So I know coming from the medicine community, holistic is anything but allopathic medicine. It's like an alternative or a complementary. It's not necessarily seen as medicine, it's seen as an adjunct. For me, being holistic, I define it as mental, spiritual, physical, emotional, cohesiveness, coherence. Your belief systems, spiritual belief systems, social belief systems, just the whole person, body, mind, and spirit is important. But then at the same time, there's purpose and things that go into wellness. Everything that's a part of a person's journey, whether it be spiritual, whether it be Western medicine, whether it be acupuncture, whether it be praying, whether it be like going to the Jordan River to take a bath or whatever, everything. It's just who we are, and so I feel like mind, body, spirit, soul, there's a cohesiveness that everyone has with one another and being able to tap into those resources. That's what is the key to our healing. We have a view in Western medicine that if a person dies, it's a failure, you know. But from a hospice perspective, working with hospice patients, I've seen them heal on their deathbeds. And then they go on to be even that much more complete and whole, where they meet with the creator and and everything. And then I've seen people that have been made whole just by being able to make choices that they want to make for themselves. Like, I don't want chemotherapy. And even though they may die of cancer, they feel good in their decision, they live their fullest life, they have the conversations and things that they want to have with their friends and loved ones. And I've seen people that have actually transformed their minds just by thoughts and repairing relationships, and then all of a sudden, that tumor's gone, or all of a sudden the hypertension's gone, different things where there's just so many levels of healing. I don't feel like anyone's broken. So holistic means whole, but we are taught that we're broken or fractured or this and that when we just are um kind of like fielding for that connection, the plug, the outlet that we just need to plug into where we can get the source, the life force flowing back into us, whether it needs to be the community resource plugged into that, whether it needs to be medicine. You know, I have people that talk about my doctor saving my life. But did the doctor save your life, or did the doctor care?

SPEAKER_01

Right, like did the doctor save your life, or also did you make the choice to go to the doctor and say this is what I need or this is what I'm experiencing, and then the doctor had a resource for you that helped. And I wow, okay, there's so much in what you just said, and this is why I was like, oh, keeping this to an hour is gonna be fun. I want to ask in response to that, because you brought out something that we had chatted about before. What's the most controversial truth you've learned about like holistic wellness and healing? And let me add context to that. You are a doctorally prepared nurse practitioner, you have a lot of training. And I would say, like, what is what would be controversial in that more traditional Western medicine setting that you understand about holistic wellness?

SPEAKER_04

I think if I were to walk into a hospital and just yell, everything's energy. Everything is energy, disease is energy, wellness is energy, health is energy, everything is energy. We're all energy, our interactions are all energy, they carry a frequency, and that frequency is either a low, medium, high, or somewhere in between vibration. And I would say controversial is the way to wellness is to increase your frequency. That would be controversial for a lot of people to really think if you're depressed, what is the frequency that you need to get to to get into action so that you're out of the depression? Sometimes that frequency is anger anger, and people think, oh, if they're not embracing their emotions, they think I can't be angry, or they're taught anger is bad. Like I was taught you can be angry but sin not, but they were really saying you can be angry but don't show it. Because showing it is a sin, and that's not really the truth, but it's basically like moving through those emotions. There's the emotion code, but I don't know if you've ever read it. I think it's Bradley Nelson. The emotion code talks about the different frequencies of like sadness, grief, and all of these things, how it carries a frequency, carries a charge, and the higher frequencies are love, coherence, and things like that. But it's like you have someone that's depressed, and then when their friends come around and rally around them, that frequency they're plugging into a source, and then they're getting some of the energy. You know, people talk about energetic vampires, sometimes people that have a low enough vibration that can be chronically angry, chronically depressed, and don't have enough source of their own to generate the next level up. They can drain people, and then we could talk about nurses and the burnout and stuff, how people are so plugged into them, but they're not plugged into anything else because they are carrying their plugs around with them and don't have time to plug in and recharge because they don't feel like there's enough time. Which gets me back to your series you did on Kronos or Oh yeah, chronos time. The whole perspective of time, too, is is energy and and everything. So getting back to your point, that would be very controversial if I tell people all of this is energy. So plug in to the source, and everything's gonna be alright. You got cancer, plug into the source. You have cardiac issues, plug into the source. You have erectile dysfunction, plug into the source.

SPEAKER_01

You and I like to have fun. And like all jokes aside, that is so true. Like, that's something that I found for myself as somebody who is very consistently burned out. It was truly like, hey, do you need something other than this understanding that you are not a self-perpetuating machine? Like, if that's the only thing that you take from this, of like if you are going to be a resource, you have to have a source. Absolutely. That was a huge realization for me, and you've been part of that journey with me. And so I want to ask you a little bit more about like the entrepreneurship piece of this because you also did something relatively controversial, and I know that because I've done it too, which is you were in this system that was setting you up to be a self-perpetuating machine of like, hey, we're not gonna make sure that you have what you need, but you need to make sure that everybody else has what they need, right? And I think that there's so many beautiful things about our healthcare system in the United States. I wanna be really clear about that. And you've identified in your blog, you've done several articles on this, and as the person who edits your blog, I will tell you, I read them sometimes, and I'm like, oh, I gotta sit with this for a second before I publish this because like I'm having feelings. You talk a lot about this idea of burnout, and so I know that part of you really plugging back into the source for yourself was going, Hey, I'm gonna create these businesses, I'm gonna come over to these places where I can start multiple things and really approach this holistic wellness from a lot of different angles. What have been some of the biggest. Lessons that you've learned in that transition from that traditional healthcare model to this more holistic and like multimodal business venture?

SPEAKER_04

I think the big biggest lesson that I've learned is there is a place for me. There is definitely a place for me. There is a place for the knowledge that I have to share with people, and people are looking for it. At first I thought that this was just a hobby.

SPEAKER_01

Like, do people kind of treat it like oh she'll do this for a minute or oh she'll do this on the side and but she'll get tired of it and she'll come back?

SPEAKER_04

Yeah, exactly. And it was more than that. It was more of a passion, and I didn't know that it was a passion until I started seeing how many people were looking for it. Perfect example. I was a nursing student, and I was teaching a doctor about sickle cell disease. I was doing a project on it because I had a cousin with sickle cell disease, and so he was treating a sickle cell patient with Tylenol. And it didn't even have codeine in it. And the sickle cell patient was like writhing in pain. And I was talking to him about it, and I was just like, I think you'd be like benefited to read this book that I have by Dr. His name was Sam Belas. He's a big guru in sickle cell at the time because this is what my experience has been, and this is what I've seen. And he's like, Okay, I'll take it into consideration. He was a student, and then as a sickle cell nurse provider, I was at a conference, and he was at the conference talking about this nurse at Olatha Medical Center that pulled him to the side and read him the riot. I did not read him the riot, but people were like, Rachel, he mentioned your name. He didn't know your last name, but he said Rachel, and I was like, that's me. Thousands of people there. He's like, she talked to me and she told me about the holistic perspectives of treating sickle cell, the pain management perspectives, and now I'm treating sickle cell people today. And I was just like, Wow, I made an impression. There people do want to know about the holistic aspects, even though society does not necessarily support it. But the outcomes are so much better with people when they get to embrace all aspects. When I say holistic, it's like I don't want to invalidate it or disvalue holistic, is that the holistic side is free. Well, it's just like this is like automatic, like you can go outside and breathe air. Breath work is free. People don't do it. It's almost like you gotta put a price tag on it. But would people know that you could drop 20 pounds in three months if you just freaking breathe every day? Things like that that are so wrapped up in the focus that I can't get on a treadmill, I can't run five miles, but you can breathe for free, and that's the start to oxygenate your body and make it more efficient and everything, and then that opens up space to connect you to source. That is free, but sometimes people see their bodies as like a big mess when they've got diabetes and all these different things and don't see a way out of it because of statistics that they've seen, all the drug commercials that they have, and just the programming that we have that when you get age 50, you're gonna do this, and when you're 60, you're gonna do this, and then by the time you're 80, you can expect to be blind. You can expect to have cataracts at this age, and we have already told people what to expect, so they expect it. And then I go back to the breath, I go back to the grounding and things that you can just go outside and do, or just connect to the earth or hug a tree. It's like even if you don't have a tree in your apartment complex, you go to the park and hug a tree. But people don't understand that that's like that's a cheapie for connecting to the ground and plugging into the source, and sometimes it just starts there. Then that awareness and that grounding opens you up to ideas that you never had because you're connecting to your source.

SPEAKER_01

I think what I'm hearing you say, and please tell me if I'm wrong, is that the venture outside of just sticking in the traditional healthcare system really has to do with the fact that there's so many other avenues of wellness. And I mean, like you said, you're obviously very passionate about those, and it is tough to bring those in. I mean, it's so great when you have somebody like that physician you just described, who's like, I'm willing to have my eyes opened. And that's not the case in a lot of places, and again, maybe we can talk about that on my up if I've had those experiences, but like what do you feel like you've learned as you shifted into running these multiple businesses that are very complementary and adjunctive and like meld so beautifully with Western medicine when people allow it? What do you feel like you've learned from going into those ventures?

SPEAKER_04

To meet people where they're at. Oh, yeah, to meet people where they're at because people have strong belief systems, you know. It's like, hey, I have a cold, I use an antibiotic every single year, I know what works for me, give it to me. Don't give me your little dandelion pulches. I don't believe in it. And some people are like, I don't want to take a medicine, I've never had a medicine, we don't believe in medicine, it's against my religion, and so you gotta work with that. You just have to meet people where they're at, and then also help them not to judge the course they have to take. Because some people feel like they flunked out of college because they have to take an antibiotic. It's just like, oh no, I have failed God because I don't have faith because I have to take this medicine. My grandmother died of pancreatic cancer and would not take a Tylenol for pain management because she did not believe in taking a medicine. She felt like she failed God if she if she did.

SPEAKER_01

But you know what's so fascinating is I think in a way, that is not trusting the source, right? That is going, oh, I've got a very limited, narrow viewpoint of how I can interact with the source in order for me to be good.

SPEAKER_04

And then judging that the source didn't create what was created, you know, in the first place, because we have knowledge, and how does that knowledge come across? It's the intuition or Holy Spirit or whatever you want to describe it as that's like I'm gonna shift this, and then all of a sudden the pain's gone, and you're like, What made me think of that? I've done that to my washer and dryer, where it's like something's going wrong with this, and I don't know what to do, and then you're just like going in there intuitively, just moving stuff around, and all of a sudden it kicks on, and you're like, what just happened here?

SPEAKER_01

Can I share a story? Sure. Really quick because I I would actually I think that this is a good example of this, and I I would love to hear your take on it too, just in terms of uh I think this sets us up for the next question I want to ask. So a couple days ago, I was up half the night having a horrific headache, but it was a headache unlike a headache I'd ever had. And again, past critical care nurse, I'm like, am I having a stroke? Is this like what's going on? And it turns out it was a migraine, but I truly believe it was like a spiritual, emotional migraine. It was something that came up because there was something really big, like emotionally, relationally, spiritually, that I was working through. But it made me sensitive to the light. And so I kept having to cover my eyes. But when I covered my eyes, and then I ended up in a conversation that was so very tied to the pain I was experiencing. Like having to cover my eyes, it forced me to listen better because I removed one of my senses, and then I was able to hear things in a way that I could not hear them. But it also made it easier for that conversation to be had because I couldn't see what this person's reactions were. So I was just talking and they were just talking. And as we're talking, I'm noticing the pain leave my body. And I'm like, man, the me 10 years ago, who was a critical care, like bone marrow transplant nurse practitioner who wasn't as familiar with a lot of these less traditional ways of both experiencing energy and healing, would be so tripped out right now by this. And I would have probably gone, oh, well, I took Motrin an hour ago, so that's why this is getting better. And I would have left it at that. And it's been fascinating to me the more that I've I've gotten to be in relationship with you and learn from you, and also just other things going on in my life, just really understanding, like, wow, the the ways in which we are introduced to healing as kids, and also the pain we go through as kids, just plays such a pivotal role in what we believe is possible in the realm of wellness and healing as we get older.

SPEAKER_04

Absolutely, because as a kid, my grandfather was a pastor, so more of the healing component was the herbs and things, and more of the healing component was prayer. Prayer, and if you're sick, pray, fast, things like that. And looking at that, I was like, there are some scientific benefits to fasting because you take the pressure off of the digestive tract and the body gets to actually heal itself. But then moving into faith-based healing, there's like Christian science and denominations and things like that, where people have strict belief systems and things, and getting those to merge with Western medicine is a whole new ball of wax. To me, I feel like any kind of illness has a mental component, like you have the headache and stuff. But back in the day, I'd think, okay, I had a headache because of X, Y, and Z. I caught a cold because of X, Y, and Z and everything, and nobody thinks of the indecision that you have, an ability to make a decision, and then all of a sudden you're congested because you don't know how to move forward, and how the mental stagnation that we have can lead to the chronic things that we experience. Like you can have a stomach ache for whatever reason, but people often associate stomach aches with nervousness and things like that. Imagine the ulcers from chronic nervousness, chronic anxiety, and things where that whole anxiety bit is just manifesting in your stomach and it goes and it goes and it goes, and then you reach a point where you have an ulcer and you're thinking, I just got this ulcer out of the blue. In Jin Shinjutsu, we have like five emotions that lead to disharmony. We don't use the disease language, we use labels. There is the pinkiest pretense where we try so hard, and when people try really, really hard, you can get stagnant energy, stress, anxiety, and things from not being able to accomplish what it is you want to accomplish. I feel like a lot of people with ADHD have a lot of pretense because they're like these brilliant minds that see all these all these lines of possibility, but because they're stuck in a system that requires them to do things a certain way, meet deadlines and things, they feel trapped, they feel guilty because they can't express themselves outside the society's norms and create their own norms. So all of a sudden ADHD is a problem. Or people want to medicate it, and it's more of an expansiveness, a consciousness. They're plugged into all these sources, but because they have to do things a certain way, none of the plugs get to the circuit breaker shuts, you know.

SPEAKER_01

I have no idea what you're talking about right now. I've never experienced pretense a day, and just kidding. I am over here going, okay, well, I guess I'm learning something right here.

SPEAKER_04

Yeah, okay, so you try hard to be something that you're that you're not, yeah because you're not wired the way that everybody expects you to be wired.

SPEAKER_01

Pretense of like it there's this presupposition of this is how it's supposed to be, so I must be this way. Exactly. But like who said? Right.

SPEAKER_04

The people said, the people in authority.

SPEAKER_01

My mom said my dad said, my like like the the authorities, the people in charge have taught me this is the way I'm supposed to be. Wow. Okay, I want to hear the other ones now because like holy cow.

SPEAKER_04

Okay, so the ring finger is the grief finger. We wear wedding bands on the ring finger and things like that. It links big time into like lung function, respiratory, and things.

SPEAKER_05

People with asthma.

SPEAKER_04

We think asthma is like just oh, you have asthma because of X, Y, and Z. But sometimes when kids come into the world with asthma, it's because they've got like grief that's been unresolved from parents. But that ring finger is grief, so it's like I know we're talking ginchin-jitsu, grief is a strong emotion and sadness.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah. Yeah. But it's like it's that profound disappointment.

SPEAKER_04

But if those emotions aren't resolved, then you see the respiratory issues and things that come in.

SPEAKER_01

That's so fascinating. You're bringing that up. I saw a TikTok the other day, and the guy was talking about, and it goes back to what you were saying about how breathing's free. He was saying that God designed us to inspire and expire. And he said, if you hold your breath, if if you try to stay in one of those situations for too long, you'll pass out, and then your body will reset and start doing it. And he said, But if you find a way to stay in the one of those too long, you die. Because you've got to be able to take it in and let it go. Take it in and let it go. And it right there, what you're describing around the grief part is like and the it affecting the lungs, is it's like, oh, are you actually letting yourself feel this in a way that lets you let it go?

SPEAKER_04

And it doesn't allow the transition into some respiratory dysfunction or dysphone. Yeah. And then the middle finger, what that is.

SPEAKER_01

I think I do.

SPEAKER_04

That's the bird finger. Yeah, anger, right? They used to call it the bad finger, anger.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, okay. As soon as you were like the middle finger, I was like, I'm betting it's anger.

SPEAKER_04

But how intuitively does it always end up flicking up when people are mad? Oh, yeah. It's like who decided that that was the finger to use for anger, but that is an expression. Anger has a tendency to go like straight to the heart. I've seen that a lot.

SPEAKER_01

And and it are resentment and bitterness tied to anger?

unknown

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04

In a lot of ways, and they're tied to grief and sadness and so you got two more fingers. Yeah, the pointer finger is fear. Fear. Believe it or not, the pointer finger is fear because when people are afraid of other people, they point at them and blame them and everything, and when they should be turning it toward themselves.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, where they say you got one finger pointing away, but you got four pointing back at you.

SPEAKER_04

Exactly, exactly. And so that is fear, and fear is false evidence appearing real. And then the thumb is worry. Kids suck their thumbs to bring them in them themselves into harmony, and people will stop the kid from sucking their thumbs because they'll get buck teeth and all that kind of stuff, and they'll take it away. But our body knows what it needs to to actually resolve itself and everything. But with all of these emotions, all fingers aside, it's just like I can see people and I can almost sense I don't want to say sensor experience, like in a psychic or spidey sense, but I can just like oh wow, they need to hold their finger. This would be a good flow for them, or this would be a good flow for them, or to get them connected and and everything.

SPEAKER_01

What's so fascinating about what you're sharing, and I I found this to be true, like in the trauma education space, is that so often we hear these things that you're talking about right here, and it's like, well, of course. I mean, as you were saying that, like I could I I I never heard any of those things before, and I'm over here going, that feels so inherently true as you're describing it. And going back to what you were saying about the stomach piece, I can't tell you how many clients I saw who had digestive issues because they were angry. Like their anger would really show up in that solar plexus area, they'd have heartburn, they'd have ulcers, they'd have like a lot of times more lower GI stuff. And as soon as the anger went away, like, yes, there would be some like grief in there, but a lot of times there was anger underneath of the grief, and as soon as you would work through those, their stomach issues would go away. And I'm like, that's so fascinating. Imagine, imagine that. Right. But like trying to have that conversation in some traditional spaces is tough. And how do you, in your work, bridge that gap between the allopathic, more pathogenic way that Western medicine can approach healthcare? Like sometimes we joke it's sick care, not health care. How do you bridge that to this also other side of like salutatic of the body knows how to heal itself? The bot, like you just said, like the baby in intuitively, instinctively knows it needs to suck its thumb. Like we intuitively know that when we're feeling terrified, we intuitively curl up into a ball because we know that we need to protect our inner organs because when we feel terror, that means we might die. So we need to protect that. How do you bridge that? How do you have those conversations and how does that show up in your work?

SPEAKER_04

Good question. I'm gonna let those dry. When I was working more as a family nurse practitioner, and even working as a mental health nurse practitioner, I'll listen to the language of the patient that I'm talking to, and they'll tell me by what they're saying, as far as like whether it be emotions, feelings, uh statements about themselves, statements about other people. You can see where they're at. You know, it's just like where you talk to folks. I drink all this alcohol every day because of what my wife does to me, but you're dealing with fear in a lot of ways, the blaming and pointing at other people, or someone's lost a loved one, and they've got some experiences around the grief and the loss, just in the language that they talk about. It's like I feel alone, I feel isolated, and so all of those things are almost indicators, body language, the way people are looking at me, yeah, or not looking at me, and everything, and there's a quantum healing modality that I do where you can actually look at the way people look up or down, and you can see where they're pulling their memories from, and everything, and not going into this to today, but people can pull memories from different parts. But if you have a visual memory and you're pulling it from an auditory memory, there's a disconnect there, and I can see where people are disconnected and stuff. So believe it or not, over the years that I've worked and the things that I've learned, it's like I can be like, oh wow, this person's still stuck in their trauma. And it's fascinating how just kind of intuitively I'm just like, okay, this is probably where we need to go with this, and then I'll have a conversation with them without even saying, hey, this is what I see in you, and then they're like, Oh, we've connected, and there's some resonance, oh she sees me, and everything because if they talk about feeling a lot, I know that they're a tactile person and that they're gonna respond to that, or if they talk about hearing a lot and everything, and that makes them feel safe. And it's not like it's a scam that I'm doing where I'm just learning their behavior so that I can get in good graces with them, it's that I can actually hear them from where they are and connect with them, and so that is I think the bridge to whether or not they're open to the path that I offer them, and it's always negotiable. I'll compromise with patients and I'll give them a good reason why I feel like a medicine may be good for you short term, and to me, it's not black and white because when I'm seeing a client, I'm muscle testing to see what would this be good for them? Do they need an SSRI? Do they need a mood stabilizer? A lot of people don't know what muscle testing is, but it's like I'm standing in behalf of them. Do they need an antibiotic or whatever, where I'm kind of testing based on my experience with them, if this is going to be a good fit for them? Because if the muscle test shows up weak on my end, then I I don't prescribe it.

SPEAKER_01

It makes a lot of sense. You're actually speaking to something that I've noticed a lot of people who go into healthcare, and what's interesting is is I think that the profession that people choose in the healthcare arena, sometimes they choose it because they're like, oh, I love this thing, but sometimes they're choosing it because of how it allows them to show up in the relationship with the patient. And I'll speak from like a nurse perspective, and this is one of the questions I had for you, actually, that I want to ask about is I see a lot of nurses, they have that spidey sense. We teach on spiritual gifts and they have the gift of perception. They are the canary in the coal mine, they are the one who can pick up on all of those patterns, but a lot of times they do it from this very instinctual, gifted place, and it makes them such good care providers because they just they know, but they don't know why they know. And that is a gift that when you're trying to quantify on paper, I remember how many times that when I was an ICU nurse, that I would call the physician on call and I'd be like, hey, their vinyls are fine, everything's fine on paper. Also, can you come lay eyes on them now so that when they code in a couple hours? Because I just I I just think they're gonna go downhill, like so that you can see the difference. Because if I want you to be able to see him or her now and then see them in a couple hours, and I also want to be able to document that I had some feelings about this, so I called you to come assess. So often there would be physicians that I would call and they'd be like, oh, this is so annoying, right?

SPEAKER_04

And then you doubt yourself, and then you're like, Oh yeah, they're like, they're fine, what are you worried about?

SPEAKER_01

And so I think a lot of times that intuitive sense it's something that's like it's what makes us so good at being nurses, and it's also something that we I think gas. ourselves and other people invalidate a lot. Where do you see the nursing profession? Like where are we in the most need of healing?

SPEAKER_04

I have a lot of thoughts about that. Where are we in the most need of healing? Can you explain that in a different way?

SPEAKER_01

We were talking about you kind of being this bridge. And and how do you bridge the the holistic and the traditional medicine and the religion and all of the different modalities that one could bring in. You've mentioned several like Jin Shinjutsu, Reiki, quantum healing, energy medicine, like all these things.

SPEAKER_04

I think I'm feeling where you're coming from. So yeah. So I think nurses are more in need of healing when they reach the point of compassion collapse. Or compassion crash because burnout starts at different levels like mentally where you've worked too many shifts when need to rest but you have to come in for mandatory overtime. The emotional where you may have like toxic workplace or people emotionally dumping on you in your personal or professional life or you just aren't able to have a safe space to vent your emotions and you have the spiritual the moral example like I had a nurse client that was talking to me about having to lie about patients falling because her agency said that she could not document the truth. When we you and I both have experience where you get these calls in the middle of the night oh the patient just slid to the floor and I'm like how in the heck is all are all these patients just sliding sliding sliding to the floor.

SPEAKER_00

Right. And also having birth yeah like okay all right.

SPEAKER_04

Yeah they just slid to the floor and I'm like are you sure in one of my blogs I was like writing about that that moral integrity and where you have to do things like COVID people were having to make choices between who would get a vent because it was so hard and that was hard on a lot of nurses where all of those things just kind of build up and then you get to the point where and I am in no way assuming that I know what these recent nurses experiences were that turned those women away that were in labor. But there was like one nurse in particular that was assessing a woman who was in active labor and didn't even turn back and everything. And that was an interesting experience to see because she seemed like she had a total disconnect but that total disconnect it was like people may think it was related to that woman but that disconnect started like a long long time ago and it would make me wonder not to say that she was burnt out or anything but how could she not have been and I'm not giving her an excuse or anything but how could she not have been burnt out on people period I don't know what her life was with her family or anything like that. But the disconnect was so abnormal for a nurse that it was just like I wonder what her experience is I don't know if that makes sense but there's no way that a nurse could come to work every day and have that kind of response. It's kind of like something died in her a long time ago.

SPEAKER_01

I agree. I I saw that video if it's the one I'm thinking but I I know you and I'm like I'm pretty sure that TikTok showed us the same video. Yeah. That one where you're just you've got somebody in front of you just screaming and writhing in pain and the nurses physically turned back turned to the computer just talking really calmly on the phone. And I thought the same thing as you did because I I was seeing a lot of the comments and I want to be really clear too because I'm not saying that these aren't part of it but I was seeing a lot of comments like oh that nurse is racist like she doesn't care. Like these this is negligence. Like why would you still even be in this profession if that's how you're going to show up and what I am hearing you say and that I think is a huge part here is that I think many nurses in today's healthcare system who have stayed in that traditional space when you were talking about the different places that you can get sick like mentally sick physically sick emotionally sick spiritually sick relationally sick and things I'm like I think that they probably are sick in all those areas.

SPEAKER_04

Right. And it's like no way to separate them and I I only used work as an example how many nurses are in uh codependent relationships with narcissistic personalities and things like that at home and like I said I can I cannot vouch or explain. I am not the whisperer for those nurses but I've talked to so many nurses who are like I don't even recognize myself when I go to work anymore because they have not figured out how to walk away. Yeah. And there's some there have been some sick nurses out there mentally breaking NICU bones of babies and things like that where in any population you have a group of people that just shouldn't be there. But your question was mainly like where a nurse is sickest the most and I would say compassion fatigue the compassion fatigue is where nurses probably could benefit from the most support because they don't have compassion for themselves. So they can't have compassion for other people.

SPEAKER_01

You know I'm an etymology nerd I like words. The etymology of the word compassion means to be able to be with somebody in their suffering to sit with them in their suffering right and I think that when you have sat with people in their suffering for years and decades and like your whole life but nobody sits with you in yours and you've been taught not to prioritize like hey like the way that you're suffering like that deserves to be heard.

SPEAKER_04

That deserves to be seen that deserves to matter absolutely and then to throw on top of there people's comments about racism and things like that even though I can't speak to that but you can look on the internet every day where people are more free to speak out their voices about racial issues and things and some of it isn't nice. I'm a woman of color but yeah if someone calls me a porch monkey and tells me to go back to Africa like I was like pumping gas at the gas station and somebody called me a mulatto monkey.

SPEAKER_01

I'm not laughing I am I I am I as a light skinned woman of color light skinned like very light I will say yeah well there's there's all of those pieces on top of it and and so you're experiencing these like these areas where people are causing you to suffer where people are actively doing things that are harmful and then you're also going through these moments of invalidation and and just like you said compassion fatigue. I think it goes back to what you were saying at the beginning of if you're not plugged into the source and you don't have access to other people who are well resourced who are willing to help you then how on earth are you supposed to be a good resource for others? Right.

SPEAKER_04

And if you have a belief system if you're a healthcare provider and you have a belief system that you despise or hate or dislike the LGBTQ community then actually giving care to the LGBTQ community should be a boundary that you hold for yourself to protect that group of people and to protect yourself. If you have an issue with people of color and you're honest with yourself nobody's asking you not to feel the way you feel but know from a professional standpoint what your limits are and you may need to get another assignment to protect those people from the subconscious views that you might have that will come through your care.

SPEAKER_01

But what's so fascinating about that is also we've made it really unsafe for people to say hey this isn't a place you want me to take care of people. At one of the hospitals that I used to work at there's two pretty big legal things happening and when I had somebody show them both to me and they they're they happen about two weeks apart. And when I saw them I was like yeah like of course this is gonna happen the person who showed them to me were like oh my gosh can you believe this and I was like yeah I absolutely can myself like I got kicked in the stomach by a patient who was experiencing delirium in the ICU and was pregnant with twins and walked out and told my charge nurse and I basically ended up going through the scenario of well what could you have done differently to avoid this person hurting you and I was like that's not the right question to be asking in this moment.

SPEAKER_04

How are you?

SPEAKER_01

Right, how are you? And when I walked out and set a boundary for myself and this isn't even around me like around something like that that's way more I think nuanced and and a tougher conversation to have because it requires you to be like hey I'm biased here even in that place of like any reasonable person would say hey I I don't want to have this assignment anymore. Can you give me someone else? And I did that and I said hey this doesn't feel safe to me and they said well we don't have anyone else to take care of that patient. So if you're not gonna take care of them then they're not gonna get they're not going to be taken care of.

SPEAKER_04

And that is totally a trick.

SPEAKER_01

Right but I'm a 24 year old nurse who's trying to quote unquote make it in this ICU and who definitely doesn't feel like I have the authority and I'm like I'm the sole income for my family right now. So like if I start an issue here I'm about to go on maternity leave like I'm about to bring two more babies into the world I got one at home and I remember all of that going through my head and I share that example because again I think that's something just like any person would be like hey this isn't safe if you've got those biases and it's not safe for you to go to the people that are in charge of assignments or things like that and be like hey I don't think I'm gonna be the right person to provide this person care. Because I do struggle with being really compassionate with this X, Y, and Z identity because of my own stuff and they're like well too bad. And also like that kind of makes you a horrible person. I can understand why people wouldn't do that. So I agree with you absolutely we should be able to and we've made it really difficult to it's that restriction of I know this isn't what's best for me. I know this isn't what's best for the person in front of me but also I don't have choice.

SPEAKER_04

I had a nurse that came to see me a few years ago in practice that was having issues where she was violently threatened at the workplace and they kept reassigning her the same client and he had held her at gunpoint was stalking her and things like that and it was just kind of interesting because she was the one that got actions pursued against her and her license and and things like that when it was just like cutting dry that this wasn't right a position to put her in but she had repercussions for even bucking the system. But that's with the whole Kaiser strikes that they're having now as far as nurse nurses, nurse practitioners and things nurse midwives wanting better conditions for the workplace and and everything and it's just kind of amazing how finally people aren't accepting that they don't have a choice or don't have options where they just haven't been informed of their rights because they've had their nose to the grindstone and just been busy getting it done making it work accommodating but there's only so much you can do with just we're gonna get it done get it done and people have trusted that you're just gonna get it done you're gonna find a way but they've been like you better figure it out and get back to us later.

SPEAKER_01

But I think that circles back to a lot of what you were saying just well throughout but in this of if a system is set up in a way that it makes it easier to choose cutting pieces of yourself off rather than doing the tough but also wellness based thing of being vulnerable and being open and honest and saying hey this is what I need I think that's how those five finger things come up that we were talking about of like that's I mean I see so much pretense in that I see so much grief in that I see so much anger I see so much fear I see so much worry of like it it seems like that systems that go hey we're gonna prioritize the the protection of the wellness of the system over the protection of the wellness of the people and it's like well you can't have the one without the other.

SPEAKER_04

Right and you know what is mimicked in communities are churches, schools it's like teachers are experiencing moms or dads whoever's stay at home experiencing the sacrifice of the whole network whether it's perceived or whether it's actual or everything teachers are getting in trouble for making choices that benefit themselves. If someone's like got an armed weapon you've got a kid that gets in trouble for disarming a gun that could have potentially harmed other people I'm like I'm glad he knew how to disarm a gun.

SPEAKER_01

What do you feel like is missing in those situations common sense? Well yeah but like what do you what do you feel like from a wellness perspective is missing in these places? Because we've talked about like you just gonna all go back to energy.

SPEAKER_04

Okay. It's gonna all go back to energy what's missing is that solar plexus strong energy I have made a decision and this decision stands and that energy that's carried from that solar plexus resonates with you and resonates with everybody and their mama that I've made a strong decision and this is the decision. It's kind of like that lion the lion king when who's the big one comes in there on the hill and everybody just bows down. Everybody bows down and it's just being able to carry that energy to where you are confident in the decisions that you make and what's best for you and that energy resonates with other people and if it doesn't resonate with other people you don't have the guilt and shame because you knew you made a decision that was right for you. Do you feel like that's been a lesson that you've been learning as you've been transitioning over into business I feel like it has been because a lot of times there's a confusion with making a decision that's good for you. You feel like it should be successful all the way around other people should receive it and we talked about this a little bit but some of the decisions we make that are best for ourselves may be that we have to leave we have to walk away we may have to do something different and everything and I was working in a situation a few years ago where I was working at a drug rehab center and I was seeing patients internal medicine and was seeing patients' mental health and the administration no healthcare background at all they were telling me to do stuff medically for the the patients that oh you should put them on Suboxone because I know the dad and they want them on Suboxone and I'm like I'm sorry it's my license or I need them to go to the doctor because of X, Y, and Z. And then all of a sudden they're telling me that oh no they refuse to go to the hospital but they were cutting corners and I left that job because I felt like I would not have my license if I continued continued to stay there. And it was like that is not the right place for me because they're constantly going against my decisions. They had med techs that were giving the wrong amounts of medicine and then at telling me that oh they they weren't hurt it was a mistake and this is why and and stuff and I'm like where are the incident reports but it was telemed I couldn't like keep track of what I saw them doing over there.

SPEAKER_01

So it's just kind of like I gotta go that oh I resonate with so deeply um I've had a lot of people be like why did you leave the thing I always say was I got tired of rearranging deck chairs on the Titanic. Moving things around in a superficial way everyone going like oh yeah that that's so good and being like okay but like what did we do? I I saw a way for helping people that I was like hey I think this would make a massive impact and they went okay yeah well maybe maybe we'll get to that exactly that wasn't even important. Like and and it was just to the point where it was like hey you know what I can't continue to harm myself in this way of pretending that this is what I'm here to do. And I see that a lot in you in some places and to be clear like you still practice clinically I don't you still practice clinically and you found a way to do it in a way that really allows you to bring in the modalities these other things that help patients and I wanted to highlight that because like just as this just as there's not one way to heal there's also not one way for us as we start really healing ourselves to then continue to do what we're doing or to shift or to change or to stay.

SPEAKER_04

Absolutely and I integrate that often it's like I have a lot of clients who are open to medicine and a lot of clients who aren't I'm like well you don't have to start a medicine you don't have to but I do have some homework for you how about this breathing prana or something like that I'll explain to them what to do what how to breathe and send them a PDF of it and if that helps you go to sleep great come back and see me in a couple weeks and we can decide what the next steps are or I will have people keep a dream journal if they have PTSD and nightmares where they can record their dreams and come back and share them with me because dream psychology is huge. And even though some healthcare providers will say that there's no merit to it our subconscious mind really wants to heal itself just like our body wants to rid itself of viruses bacteria and anything else and a lot of people's nightmares are not really nightmares if they understood what they meant. That's another yeah no I I well you and I could talk for probably five hours and still have things to say here's the the question that I know you're gonna be wrapping your podcast up with people if you could give the world one prescription of wisdom around wellness what would it be love makes the difference because love's energy like you said love makes a difference like love is the highest frequency actually oh tell me more authenticity is the highest frequency but when you love yourself completely your authentic self emerges my grandfather used to always talk about love makes a difference love makes a difference he pastored and I'll never forget we were all in the car and we were leaving church late at night and this guy holds my grandfather up at gunpoint before my grandfather could get in the car and the gun backfires. My grandfather takes off his jacket wraps the guy's hands up and everything takes him to inside the church we get out of the car no fear at all prays with him he accepts Christ that he's in church Sunday morning with bandages on his hand love makes a difference and that's what my grandfather always taught love makes the difference love makes the difference I've seen my grandmother his wife pastor's wife walk up to a house that some guys were breaking in and stealing stuff and with her house shoes on and us right behind her that's not your stuff who are you I know your mother I know your dad makes them sit there wait for the police converts them to Christianity and they're at church the next Sunday after breaking in somebody's house trying to steal their stuff. So that's what I grew up on love makes a difference feeding your neighbors kids would come to my grandparents' house after school to get a snack and then they go back to their houses or would come conveniently around dinner when they knew my grandmother was cooking and she just said nothing but put a plate at the table and there'd be a whole bunch of neighborhood kids to where my grandparents had to put a picnic bench on their porch outside to have extension of the dinner table where people just knew they always had a place. Love makes the difference and love is the catalyst as far as science experiments in germ in German Nazi where they separated people from touch and things like that the children failed to thrive just that connection and the healing of just the connections that we have with each other and that love is just love love makes a difference I love I'm noticing my word there and I mean it I I feel the presence of the impact of that action like the way you're describing love is it's an action.

SPEAKER_01

It's not a frequency it's an action and you can most I would think easily participate in those actions if who you are and whose you are and what you're here to do and something that's channeled. Yeah I was gonna say and you're plugged into the source and you know I've got this like no matter how much I give I can always come back here and get more that's absolutely gorgeous.

SPEAKER_04

I have four children When I was pregnant with my second child, I was boo-hooing because I didn't know how I was gonna love two kids equally. Oh yeah. I was just like, oh no, I don't know how I'm gonna Will they feel like will they feel the love? Will one feel slighted over the other? How can I love them equally? I don't I was just freaking out, freaking out. But it's just like it expands. When you love from the right place, it's like nurses, and the take-home point for them is to be able to love from the right place, and that's why we've got to heal the people pleasing and things like that gets us like with the outlet that's in a like halfway plugged in, or it's like a faulty cord, we gotta love from the right place and have that strong cord, not the space heater and the power strip because things catch on fire.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, you gotta make sure you're like firmly you're firmly grounded, right? Uh to use the the term, yeah. Wow, and it just expands.

SPEAKER_05

There's no deficit.

SPEAKER_01

This is why I love talking with you too, and why I'm so excited for further episodes because you just you reminded me when I was pregnant with my twins and I was in that ICU. I was not planning on twins, it was unexpected, and I was in grad school and I was exhausted. And I remember being like, I don't want this because I can't handle this. I'm not re well resourced enough to have to grow two babies and then to have two and then a two-year-old daughter. And I remember I was pregnant along with two other women on the floor. One had twins, or was pregnant with twins, and one had a singleton, and both of them lost a baby. So the one miscarried, and then the other lost twin B. So just had twin A. And when I tell you my perspective on that changed really quick, my prayers changed from God, I don't know how I'm gonna handle this to God, please let me handle this. And it was that love, it was that okay, instead of coming at this from a under-resourced place, let this cut pass. Right, let this cut pass. Like right. Instead, it was no, okay, God, if if you gave me these babies, then I'm I'm here to steward their care. Like I'm here to steward them through. So like please, like if it's your will, like please let me keep them. And I share that here with you because you just kind of cemented that in an even deeper way of watching other people lose something helped me see how much I loved that thing. And that then changed how I acted in accordance with that thing. And I'm excited to see how you bring that love wisdom to these episodes moving forward because I think it's gonna change the way that a lot of people see things.

SPEAKER_04

Absolutely, absolutely, and just want to throw it back at you. I know when we were working together on just what businesses I keep, what businesses I would dump, and you were like, you don't have to let anything go. You can handle this, right? And it's that like the same thing. It's like, okay, I don't even know if I really realized how overlapping they were, and how everything I did was a part of everything I was already doing, and that I did not have to send one business out for adoption.

SPEAKER_01

Right, yeah, you didn't have to sacrifice one or like like, and it wouldn't have felt good to you had you lost one. And I I will say in response to that, one of the things we did talk about though was we're gonna take it one at a time because we looked at where you were at and we looked at you're already doing this clinical practice thing, and so we went, okay, we're gonna bring back one, and then while that one's baking, while that one's in the wound, like growing, we're gonna work on this one, and then okay, now we got two of them together, and then we're gonna add this one in. And it was very intentional, and it was done in a way that allowed for you to make sure that you were well resourced the entire time through, and it looks different than we thought, but it also looks very similar to what we saw.

SPEAKER_04

It's like those cartoons where you have Tom and Jerry, and there's the pies on the windowsill, and they're just smelling the pies, so it's just kind of like I've got three pies on the windowsill, and people are just coming up. Take a bite, take a piece. So I think that's what the business is set out to that love that went into that cooking of the pies or the windowsill, and you can taste the taste the love.

SPEAKER_01

All right, well, more to come.

SPEAKER_04

Absolutely.

SPEAKER_01

And thank you so much for the honor of getting to ask you these questions and talk with you because like it's just such a privilege for me to help you bring this to the world. And like, I I just yeah, I love you.

SPEAKER_05

Absolutely, and I'll have you back.