Kris Willis: When the Way You Built It Has to Change

Kris Willis built his real estate career the way it came naturally: showing up wherever people gathered, saying yes spontaneously, and never once pitching real estate. Bourbon tastings, birthday parties, kickbacks, if it was happening, he was there. That approach, shaped by a decade of sales experience across Asia Pacific and an education from mentor Rich Richardson, made him one of Bolst's top agents.

Then a fourteen-month-old arrived and the calendar had to change.

In this episode, Kris and Justin trace the whole arc: the corporate burnout that led to a career-changing lunch, what Kris absorbed watching Rich work, what shifted when he went out on his own, and how he rebuilt his relationship-building approach around a new season of life. His metric now is two to three coffees per week. His first deal of the year came from one of them.

Transcript

SPEAKER_01 0:00

I'm an open book, you know, whether it's learn from my mistakes, learn from my pain, um, or here's what I've done that has worked for me. I love sharing those things. Like I just I I part of that's, you know, I've had great mentors in my life, both in real estate and out. And I I really get a high in the energy, like an energy boost from when people call. And it's like, hey, like, man, where are you at? Just share whatever's going on. If I can help, again, open book. If not, I'll try to connect you with somebody that can.

SPEAKER_00 0:35

Welcome to the Justin Landed Show, your real estate podcast about having conversations, building relationships, and creating freedom. And today I'm here with Chris Willis, one of the top bolst agents and an awesome guy. Chris, thanks for being here. Hey, I'm appreciated for having me. All right, Chris, we gotta start at the beginning. You had, I'd say, an unconventional path to real estate. You were all over the Pacific and Asia, and then next thing you know, you're selling houses. How did it happen?

SPEAKER_01 0:59

Yeah, I guess it's all about people and relationships. Um I think we might hear that theme today. Yeah, that would definitely be a theme. That's that's my like my through line for everything in life, I feel like. Yeah, I was in sales, uh, worked for a Japanese company, you know, for a while, worked for a tech startup, and I was in Asia Pacific all the time. And there were aspects of that that I loved. Uh-huh. The relationships, the people, kind of like the building, you know, of that. I didn't necessarily love the, you know, kind of what have you done for me lately? Um, hey, you had a great quarter. Let's up your quota. Yeah, let's up your quota, and uh, we're gonna cut your territory in half. Yeah, that's like the best feeling. And so having hit that ceiling a number of times in a row, uh, I was actually cordially invited to pick my last day at the uh the last role that I had prior to real estate that was full time. I was um manager of a small sales team. And I just said, I need to do something different. This hasn't been working. Um, I'm feeling burnt out. And I had been doing photography for about 10 years at that point, um, kind of on the side doing weddings and portraits and whatnot, just kind of like a creative outlet.

SPEAKER_00 1:56

And that was your original connection to real estate was through photography.

SPEAKER_01 1:59

That was my connection, yeah. So a buddy of mine introduced me to uh Rich Richardson, um, who had been in the business for a number of years at that point. He said, Maybe you can do his listing photos. If nothing else, he's just a good guy to connect with. And so Rich and I sat down, grabbed lunch, and Rich is extremely relational. We just started talking about life, and he said, You know, like have you ever been interested in real estate? And in my mind, I was like, Well, yeah, I mean, everybody has. Um, I never really had an you know an impetus to get in the business. And he was looking to grow his team, and that's really was the initial connection that kicked all that off back in, I guess that was like November of 2015.

SPEAKER_00 2:32

What was it for you that gave you the confidence or let you know, like, hey, I shouldn't take this step into real estate?

SPEAKER_01 2:38

Yeah, I mean, at that time, again, I decided to do photography full time while I was, you know, figuring things out, whether that meant stick with that, or I was actually looking at other you know, career opportunities and changes. And I was like two or three interviews in actually at that time. It was a men's kind of fashion, you know, thing. I'm into fashion and whatnot. That was that was interesting. I said, well, let me try that out. And after meeting with Rich, and I was looking at what the life of real estate looked like, I said, I think this makes more sense for what I want my life to look like. And so I decided to, you know, go after my license the the beginning of the following year. But really, what made me you know interested in it was seeing how Rich was living his life and him being an extremely relational person. And we had had that first lunch, and he said, Let's reconnect in a couple of weeks. And he's heard me tell this before. I think he was out on a ski trip, somewhere like Breckenridge or somewhere.

SPEAKER_00 3:28

Every story about Rich Richardson has something to do with the ski trip. Absolutely.

SPEAKER_01 3:31

And so he calls me maybe like a few days before we're supposed to meet up again. He said, Hey Chris, like Chris, uh, I'm here at Breckenridge, but the snow is really good in Tahoe. Uh, I think I would like to extend the trip for three or four days.

SPEAKER_00 3:41

You know who was taking care of his business while he was doing that? It was probably me.

SPEAKER_01 3:46

Yeah. And I'm like, man, he's doing something right. I know he's successful in real estate. I know he's like living his life well and treating the people around him well. That was really intriguing to me that he was able to balance, you know, those things. And so that was kind of like, okay, that's a version of this business that I want to emulate.

SPEAKER_00 4:02

Well, let's go further down that because I also had the opportunity for Rich to be a mentor of mine and to see how he ran his business. As you started to see more of it and started to do it, what was it about Rich's business that really stood out for you? Is like, this is a great way to do it.

SPEAKER_01 4:16

Yeah, Rich is one of the most relational and authentic people that I know. And so I would see the way that he would treat clients if he's in the neighborhood, then he would give them a call. It wasn't ever salesy, and that spoke a lot to me because I never wanted to be the person that when they saw my name pop up, you know, on the phone, it was like, oh, like you know, you know that feeling when somebody calls you, they haven't reached out in five years and like, oh, this person wants something from me. And what I saw was the opposite of that. And I saw the way that people genuinely like reached out to him for advice, and you know, when they had a real estate need or or otherwise, they would reach out. He was just a great resource, you know, and advisor. And that really aligned with the the past things in past sales roles that I did enjoy. That was my favorite part.

SPEAKER_00 4:56

How did you start to make that your own? Because each person is unique, and I mean, there's nobody like Rich, right? So, I mean, we both had to see it and make it our own. How do you start to make that relational, taking care of people, business that he was doing into the business that worked for you?

SPEAKER_01 5:10

Yeah, I think all you at least for the way that I kind of view things, I've have to observe and I have to talk to as many people that are in the business so that I can kind of get a picture of this is like as far as East to West you know goes, this is a spectrum of how you can run it. Yep. And then once I see certain things that I resonate with, it's like, okay, I can take a bit of that and I can take a bit of this. And then I'm gonna bring in my own kind of sauce to, you know, to the pot. And you know, after a while you kind of realize, okay, this is kind of the way that I'm doing it, and this is working, or I need to tweak something here.

SPEAKER_00 5:39

It's just kind of like there's always an evolution of the So what were I what were the if you had to say the one or two things you took from Rich and then the one or two things that were your special sauce that you put together in that pot, what what would you say those things are? Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 5:51

Rich did did such a he still does a great job of putting people at ease and establishing trust, like really early on. So I would watch him do listing presentations, um, and you know, he's got it all up here. He's done all of his research on the front side, but the person doesn't have to be.

SPEAKER_00 6:06

He's not bringing it back in it. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 6:08

Yeah. So he knows his numbers, he knows the market and all those things, but really it's connecting with the person because you're you are in that person's home. This is their life. This is the most the biggest thing that's going on for them at that moment. So I've seen him do that. Um on one side, I've I've seen, you know, I went out um looking, you know, one time we were doing a showing, and we pull up in the driveway and he says, you know, Chris, you know, what do you think about the home? I'm like, Well, we haven't even gone out of the house, you know, out of the car yet. And he already has like five or six things to talk about. And I'm like, okay, this starts before you even get here. This is we're turning into the neighborhood. So again, I see like he's on way before I was even thinking of really like recording. And so that's something that I bring in. And he's got something to add, like value add, in every room in the house. So again, I would just kind of sit back and shadow and watch how he treated his clients.

SPEAKER_00 6:54

Who would you say is on the your special sauce side? What are the couple things that are completely unique to you that you feel like you've brought to this business?

SPEAKER_01 7:01

Yeah, um it's a mix of things. You know, I'm I'm a bit I'm a mix you know, he could answer this. Um I'm a mix of an extrovert, you know, and uh an introvert, you know, ambervert, I guess. Like a 62, maybe on that scale, if 100 is is full on extrovert. I love personality tests and all the things, so I've taken all of them. So I love being out with people. Um initially that was really the chief way that I would build my business is if there's a birthday party, if there's a hangout, if there's a kickback, if there's whatever. My answer is gonna be yes unless it's a no. And I'm not one to ever bring up, hey, I'm in real estate, this is what I'm doing. Just being genuine with people. And you know, I've had a number of conversations where afterwards somebody would say to me, Man, we this is a great conversation, like we had such a good time. And I only asked like five things. They were talking 90% of the time. Yeah. You know, people want to feel like you're interested in what they have going on in their lives, and eventually they'll ask, How's the market? Yep. You know, or what do you do if this is my first time meeting them? It's like, oh, well, this is what I do, this is the market, etc. Everybody's interested in it somewhat because like everybody has to live somewhere.

SPEAKER_00 7:59

And so I would say the nice thing about this industry.

SPEAKER_01 8:01

Yeah. And so I would just kind of marry whatever my interests were, whether it was, you know, I was big in dance and music, whether it was like, hey, there's a bur, like a bourbon tasting, you know, situation. I would just go to have a good time and I would invite, you know, a couple friends to come along with me. And work, it's whether I got business or not, I had a good time. Yep. But I think when you're doing the things that you're already interested in, like people are attracted to that. Like there's a different energy, you know, going on. So I really tried to hone in on that.

SPEAKER_00 8:25

Awesome. And so you were with Rich for a pretty long time, and then you decided to go out on your own. Yeah. And became uh individual, one of the top agents that bolst how what was it that made you decide, hey, now it's time for me to do it myself.

SPEAKER_01 8:36

Yeah. That was a conversation, you know, that we'd have been having, you know, throughout. And from day one, Richard always said, um, you know, whenever you feel like you want to go out on your own, you have my full blessing, which I really appreciated. That and um, you know, Rich is a man of his word. It was a mix of things, but um, a big part of that was, you know, wanting to, I think some of that was wanting to test myself. And, you know, it's it's fantastic having the covering, I would say, of a team and having those resources and camaraderie. Uh I wanted to build something, and it wasn't about having my name on it per se, but um, if I wanted to be able to shift and do things and maybe bring somebody on to be kind of be able to do things in a in a manner that that really reflected who I was. Yep. Not to say I couldn't do that on the team, but I always wanted to make sure that um, you know, I'm building into what was already there. And that was just time for me to kind of spread my wings and yeah, try to.

SPEAKER_00 9:25

How did the day-to-day change immediately? It sounds like what we're talking about is you're kind of surprised about that.

SPEAKER_01 9:31

Yeah. Yeah, it was almost you could expect that a lot of things would change, and in one in one sense, not a lot did. Yeah. Whether you're on a team or not, you are still accountable for your business. And that's gonna be the same for for anybody anywhere. You still have to meet people, you still have to, you know, make your calls or have your conversations, you still have to take the deal from beginning to end. What I did feel changed was you're already, it's a business is a business of accountability that just increases. So now, really, you are managing everything. You're managing maybe it's all the marketing, you're managing really your own mental and emotional bandwidth. This is a business where you can succeed on your own. I forget the the the adage about going far quickly and you know going far with people, but you can get burnt out even easier and even quicker when you're on your own. Because you can just be on an island. And so that was a thing I had to be very intentional about.

SPEAKER_00 10:19

Which is something that you weren't as intentional about before. No. Before Bullston, before being on your own. Yeah. So how did you you realize like, hey, there is a risk of being on an island? What'd you do about that?

SPEAKER_01 10:30

Yeah. For me, it was it was making the choice. And I'm already one to show up to you know our brokerage-wide meetings, because that's that's really important. I get a lot out of those. But taking that a step further and not just having the casual kind of rubbing elbows conversations with other agents in the office, but let's take that a step further. Let's, you know, we have a mastermind. Um, we've got a couple group chats, you know, that I'm on. You know, for a while I would meet with a couple other agents, you know, at the brokerage uh an hour or two before we'd had the monthly sales meeting, just to, hey, what's going on with your business? How can we help each other? You know, what are resources that we can share? Also, just you know, you can feel crazy when you're on your own, but hey, seven other people that are also producing are going through the same thing. It's like great. We all, you know, this is a business where different parts of town things can be different, different neighborhoods. So let's look at our data points and and see what's the same and see what's not.

SPEAKER_00 11:21

I think that's such a great point because it can be really lonely in this business, yeah, which is odd because it's a people business. And a reason a lot of people get into it is they're as extroverted or more than you, you know, and like, oh, it's a people business. And then you're like, I feel like I'm alone and on an island. And so if there's anybody listening to that who feels that way, you just list roll rattle off a lot of things that you've done. But what would be the first or the first couple steps you would advise somebody if they feel like they're on an island and they want that community with other agents and other people they're doing this with?

SPEAKER_01 11:51

Yeah. The easiest thing is just to come to the office. Like if you've got a place like a market center. Good things are like so many good conversations happen that I didn't plan on happening, but just because people are here, it's like, you know, I was Rachel Smith, who's another agent, a great agent at the office, you know, bumped into her on Wednesday. I just happened to be here at the office and had an hour-long convo. You know, and it's again, it's you see people that run their businesses similar to you and that run their businesses differently than you do. And both of those are good encounters because one, it could be reaffirming, hey, I'm doing the right things. And on the other side, it's oh, I don't even think I could do that. You're constantly learning, uh, but that will help. Otherwise, you the people that don't ever show up. I think you can be successful, but you're just making it more difficult for you too.

SPEAKER_00 12:32

Yeah. Man, I so agree. What about an agent? So you mentioned like you and Rachel, both top producers. What would you say to somebody that maybe is newer and they might be nervous of like, I've got nothing to share with Chris? Like, I'm only like learning. Like, I want to learn from him or I want to be around, but I don't have anything to offer. Yeah. What advice would you give that person?

SPEAKER_01 12:49

Yeah, man, reach out. Reach out. I'm an open book, you know, whether it's learn from my mistakes, learn from my pain, um, or here's what I've done that has worked for me. I love sharing those things. Like, I just I I part of that's, you know, I've had great mentors in my life, both in real estate and out. And I I really get a high in the energy, like an energy boost from when people call and it's like, hey, like, man, where are you at? Just share whatever's going on. If I can help, again, open book. If not, I'll try to connect you with somebody that can.

SPEAKER_00 13:15

Man, I know that's so true about you. And it's true about a lot of real estate agents. In my observation, a lot of the best real estate agents, they you might think like, oh, this is like the sales killer and like the go, but usually it's people that want to help people. Yeah. And so the helping also comes with that other newer agent or somebody that's that's reaching out. Yeah. I mean, I I've found that to be true in a lot of cases. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 13:35

Yep. I also thought, uh, kind of getting into the business that it would be very either catty or like, oh, I don't I don't want to share my secrets, my secret sauce. My experience has been the complete opposite, you know, of that. And I was a little apprehensive about you know reaching out to people. Some of that's internal and like, oh, I don't want anybody to know that I don't know. But one, people know if you don't know, you're new. Like you shouldn't know everything coming in.

SPEAKER_00 13:58

Yes. Um you're better off not knowing and finding out.

SPEAKER_01 14:01

Yeah. I look, I'd rather you know maybe look silly, you know, silly, quote unquote, around other agents that are experienced, then you'd rather do it then than be out in the deal and not know. Because now like it's real life. So, you know, do it behind closed doors where it's, you know, this is a safe space and you know, people are just here willing to help.

SPEAKER_00 14:17

Yeah, Chris, that actually reminds me of a story early on. I had an agent who was dealing with a multiple offer situation. Um, and I checked in with him and he was about to like botch it up. I mean, completely like botch it up where the client wasn't going to get the as much as possible, the agents are going to be mad at him. Yeah, you know, and it my first thought was like, man, how could he not know this? But then I had the thought of like, how could he actually know this? You know? And I was like, man, I'm so thankful that we got the opportunity to talk through it and figure it out so that the client could get the best result, so that the other agents were, you know, treated fairly and transparently and were not upset about it. And that has always changed my perspective of like, man, it's so much better for the industry, for everybody, for the newer agents or an agent doing something for the first time to come to somebody more experienced. Um, and so many agents like yourself are willing to share and help people through that, and that does help our whole industry.

SPEAKER_01 15:15

Yeah, absolutely. I mean, I've uh I had a coach for one year and I've talked with you about this. Um, but this is also applicable, even if you don't. But again, just under the theme of asking people. And even something as simple as like a special stipulation, you know, on a contract. Um, and there's something that I always include now, it's a quality of life, you know, step where any uh due diligence period or any any contingency period was going to end, let's say like can be 7:30 p.m., eight o'clock p.m. And initially I had one, I didn't know that existed or that we could do that. But two, I've had the deals where we're negotiating at 11.50 p.m. on a Saturday night. Oh, yeah. You know, when people are out and you can't get a hold and it's stressful and you're sending out termination. Nobody wants that on either side of the deal. Um but again, if I hadn't met with somebody that recommended, hey, put this in, this is not just beneficial for you or your clients, but good for everybody. Yes. Those are those things that, again, when we're talking about burnout, um, that make you feel like you could do this for longer and be better at it.

SPEAKER_00 16:09

What else do you because burnout, especially at your production level and tenure, is I mean, it's so real. What else has helped you uh avoid or you know, minimize the burnout? Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 16:21

It's funny talking about that step. Um, it's a boundary, it really is what it is. Um, and in this business, it's very easy to get into that mindset of or the posture of I'm available at all times. And that is how I ran my business for the first easily five years. Same here. Yes. And part of me enjoyed that, you know, to a sense. It's like, hey, I'm working, I'm doing things, I'm I'm available to people, I'm making it happen. I'm serving, I'm making it happen. You're doing what you have to do, but that's not sustainable for anybody. And everybody's some people can do that for a year, somebody can do that for five, but eventually it's gonna catch up with you. So whether that's you having a day of the of the week where you're not doing anything work-wise, you're doing things that are recovery, you know, for you. So, like for me, like fitness is a big thing. I need to make sure I'm getting that in. I need the like the meditation time. I need I recharge with people, but if I'm always working, you know, again, you can blur that line of is this working? Is this is this like a leisure thing? So, really defining what are those things. And I had a mentor, maybe my first year, you know, in the business that said at the beginning of the year, you need to plan out your vacations or your downtime, whatever you want to call it. Because once you're in the thick of it, like you are not going to want to pull back and make time for that. So you really got to carve that out on the front side.

SPEAKER_00 17:28

Yeah, man, I love all of that advice. There's so much we could go on for a long time on that. But I mean, that vacation is huge. I don't know if you've ever done this. I had multiple vacations early on where we were planning to do something, and like the week before, I'd be like, I mean, I can't, I can't do this. You know, I can't do it. I didn't have enough, you know, coverage and help. And I mean, we'll just like have to cancel it and stay. And that is not a good place to be. That definitely leads to to burnout. And yeah, being able to take care of your body and be fit and your mind and you know, energy, all that, man, is just so huge.

SPEAKER_01 17:57

I had a 3 a.m. I was in Japan, what this was like 2018. Um, and it was a it was a deal I was up, you know, negotiate. And got it under contract, and then, you know, unfortunately you had to terminate. So it's like, man, all that was up for like two hours in the middle of the morning. But like, you know, it's that happens. It's yeah, that's the real estate.

SPEAKER_00 18:12

You leave, and that's what happens. Yeah. So you've had a pretty unique way of moving the needle in your business. You have a metric that is not one of like the main metrics that like the coaching companies put out there and everybody's got on their scoreboard. But this metric, you have stayed true to it, and it has moved the needle in your business. Tell everybody about the metric that you think is most important for your business. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 18:32

And this phase of my life, it's getting coffees with people a week. So I'd I'd two to three is is my baseline. Um, and that shifts a little bit because when you're putting that time in, you know, it's like 30, 60, 90 days, you start to see the results and the accumulation of all that. And so some weeks are gonna be busier, some weeks, you know, for good cause. You're out with people, you're actually doing, you know, the business. Um, but yeah, that's my goal is just to be in front of people. Um, you know, my wife and I, we've got a 14-month old at home, so I can't be out and as active, you know, in one sense that I used to be. So that this was my way of being intentional about building relationships with people. And again, having that rhythm built in, that's when the good stuff happens. And I would say also on the coaching side of things, on the kind of gleaning from other people, it's the rhythm of having that. I don't come to the office looking necessarily to get something from somebody, but it's the constant kind of rhythmic meeting, you know, with people. And it's the same way with the coffees. You're just doing life with people and the things come up, whether it's them. My first deal of the year came from that. Um, I got coffee with the buddies was like January 2nd. And he was like, Yo, man, I was so-and-so, like he and his wife, uh, they're living, you know, they're renting out a basement, you know, from some friends, they've got five kids, like they need their own place. I was like, Yeah, they do. You should probably connect us. And I happen to know him as well. But that wouldn't have happened if we hadn't just made the decision to like, hey, let's catch up.

SPEAKER_00 19:48

Yeah. Man, that is so good. Because when our families expand, this is a big inflection point for a lot of real estate agents because a lot of people that are really social have built their business off of just doing stuff. Like you're just doing stuff all the and you're working a lot, and then all of a sudden your priorities and your whole timeline shift, and you're like, Well, I can't eat dinner out with friends six nights a week, or I'm not going to see this baby, you know? Like, what am I gonna do? And you found a way to still have that social interaction, but put it into, like you said, a rhythm and a structure that's been able to be consistent for you.

SPEAKER_01 20:19

And that's still good for me because again, I I still do get a lot of energy from meeting and connecting with people in a genuine way. So I also just need that personally. Yep. I know I can't get it, you know, in the same way that I did before. So it's like, okay, now we're just moving that to a different time of the day, different time of the week.

SPEAKER_00 20:33

You also put structure into the advice you gave earlier of going to the office. You were going to the office one day a week last year.

SPEAKER_01 20:38

Yeah. Yeah. So I I did the um the Bolson Ambassador uh program um at the North Atlanta office last year, which is great for a lot of reasons. Um, but really just to have a day where I know I'm gonna be here in the office, I know I can work on all my admin, the things that honestly that can fall down the priority list. Oh, yes, I can forget it out pretty easily. But just having it for me, it was Wednesdays, and so this year, I I might start upping that to you know one or two days, whether that's a half day uh because just good things happen when I'm doing that's where I get my newsletter out, and that's when I'm catching up on emails, and maybe the things that I'm not as excited about doing, but um, I still need to do. Get those coffee set.

SPEAKER_00 21:12

Yeah. Some you got to set them if you're gonna get one of them. Yep, exactly. Man, I love it, Chris. This has been such an awesome to hear your journey from getting started and finding a mentor, figuring it out on your own, going out on your own, but then you had to find the community and now the rhythm for this part of your life. Congrats on all the success. Yeah, I appreciate it, Justin. Look, you've been a huge part of that. It's always both. So I appreciate you. All right, thanks so much to Chris for being here and sharing this week. Everybody, thanks for listening. Make sure to like and subscribe so you don't miss an episode. And we'll see you again next week.