Kyle Marshall: The Four-Question Framework for Making a Major Career Transition

Kyle Marshall spent twenty years in ministry, the last ten running a campus ministry at Emory University. He spent eighteen months figuring out what came next, seriously considered becoming a history teacher, and then on the drive home from a house showing realized real estate might be the answer. He was licensed in weeks. Twelve months later he had helped seventeen clients. In this episode, Kyle and Justin walk through the four-question framework he used to evaluate the move, what ministry taught him that real estate school never could, and the theology professor's lesson that changed the way he handles every difficult deal.

Transcript

SPEAKER_01 0:00

I don't think I realized until I got in it how much I would enjoy the thrill of meeting a new person, getting, you know, hopefully they want to go with me and helping them find a house and the challenge. Sometimes it's really hard to find the right house. And so you're looking, and that can you can view that in the sort of negative, or you can view that as uh, this is fun. Like we're gonna almost gamify it and we're gonna keep keep pushing and keep pushing.

SPEAKER_00 0:34

Welcome to the Justin Landis Show, your real estate podcast about having conversations, building relationships, and creating freedom. And today I'm here with Kyle Marshall, one of the awesome agents at JOG. Kyle, thanks for being here. Thanks for having me. Kyle, your career started in ministry two decades of ministry before you transitioned into real estate. Tell us about that and what led to you making this transition.

SPEAKER_01 0:55

Yeah, so did ministry, like you said, for 20 years, got into it out of high school and really, I guess out of college, but went to college to do ministry. My wife and I, the last 10 years ran a campus ministry at Emory University, loved it, had a great time. And then you know, the last few years of my time at Emory, I could just tell it's time to do something new, you know. And that's kind of a weird thing. You know, I've got a master's in theology and you know 20 years of ministry.

SPEAKER_00 1:20

So when you're like 10,000 hours, people were on the certainly at that point.

SPEAKER_01 1:25

Yes. And so, you know, when you're trying to figure out what's next, you're like, I no idea what's next because of you know, just unknowns. And so trying to figure that out. And so I spent about 18 months trying to figure that question out.

SPEAKER_00 1:39

That's a long time. What was that like?

SPEAKER_01 1:41

It was scary. It was weird. Um, people kept asking me what was next, and I was like, I have no idea. And seriously considered becoming a teacher. I knew I could teach. I had done a lot of that sort of thing over the years to the point where I started, I ordered some books on history and started studying to become a history teacher. Um but never felt great about it. Never it was like a something I could do, but I didn't think I wanted to do that. And then one day my wife and I were thinking about moving, and we had used Justin and the group here, and Ashton had sold our last home. And so Ashton actually took us out to Roswell to look at a house. We ended up changing our mind, not wanting to move. But on the way home from that showing, I told my wife, I was like, I wonder if real estate could be an option. And she's super supportive and was like, Yeah, go for it. So And then we had a conversation. And we sat down. Yeah. What what do you remember from that conversation that we had? I remember feeling like, I is am I crazy? Is this is this even possible? You're such a nice person that I was like, is he's not gonna tell me even if I'd be terrible at that. I was like, is this a huge mistake? But I what I really felt like coming out of that was you were so encouraging of the fact that the people side of what I had learned in ministry would apply to this. And so I was like, I if I can I know people, if I can learn the business side, I think we can be successful.

SPEAKER_00 2:58

So I think a lot of people might be surprised with that, but to me, the people side is the hardest part of this business. Now, you got to learn all the other stuff too. Sure. But the people side, if you have it, you have it.

SPEAKER_01 3:11

Yeah, you know. Now, and I don't think I know I did I met with Jared and uh we did one of the personality tests, I don't remember which one it was, but disc, I think maybe. Um, but he was like, You're the most extroverted person I've ever seen from this. And I was like, Oh, okay, just didn't realize that. But you know, I do think watching other people and kind of learning the business over the last year, there's just things that I have realized, like skills that were formed over time working with people in the ministry side that I did not realize how naturally that came and how it might not come to other people. So it's been really helpful, I think.

SPEAKER_00 3:46

Carl I've talked to a lot of people about making the transition into real estate. And of all the people, you have one of the most specific frameworks, which I really love and I think would be helpful. You have four questions that you evaluated to decide whether making the move into real estate was right for you. Will you walk everybody through those four questions? Um so the first one was what am I good at?

SPEAKER_01 4:03

Uh I need to, if I'm gonna do a new career, I need to find something that I'm good at, right? Uh and so what am I good at now that'll apply? Second was what do I enjoy? I didn't want to, if I was gonna make a major shift in life, had to be something I would enjoy doing for the next 20, 40, 80 years, however long we're working. Uh and then the third one was what's is there a financial future in it? It could be I enjoy it and I'm good at it, but there's no money, then got to figure out something else. And then the last one for me personally was does it put me around people? I needed because you are such a people personal. I am a people person. I am an extrovert to the max. And so I needed to be working with people. And that's part of what I loved about ministry, and I knew that that was something that I needed for me personally. So if I could find something that hit all four of those, then it was like, yeah, let's give that a shot.

SPEAKER_00 4:49

I love it. Will I enjoy it? Will I be good at it? Will there be a financial future? And is it around people? That is a pretty awesome framework to evaluate it. And I think you're doing all of those.

SPEAKER_01 4:58

Yeah, absolutely.

SPEAKER_00 4:59

Was it still hard though? I mean, we joke I joked about the 10,000 hours, but man, did it feel like a sunk cost, or was it hard to move from like you had spent so much, like you had advanced degrees and spent so much time? Was it a challenge to overcome that, or were you able to easily put that behind you once you made the decision? It was hard.

SPEAKER_01 5:16

It was hard to let go of that. I felt like I was stepping into a field where I knew very little. And that was really humbling coming out of a field where I felt very much like I knew what it was I was doing. I've been trained in this. Um, and yeah, the sunken cost was like, all right, I did I still have student loans from my master's program. And so not having that avenue, but you know, it was I knew I had my church world that I was already involved in, so I had spaces for that part of my life to still exist. And being in this, I needed something new. I I'd seen where the last, you know, the last few years, I knew that it was time. And so I needed to try something new and realize like it's okay to let go of that um because this is the direction I feel like you should go in.

SPEAKER_00 6:04

What would you say to somebody who's right on that cusp, they might be struggling to give up something in the past and take a step towards the future?

SPEAKER_01 6:11

Yeah, I mean, I think don't be afraid to take chances. Um obviously there's you gotta pay your bills, you gotta pay your mortgage. Like there's things that you have to think about when you're when you're making big shifts. But for me personally, I knew that I could not go you know 20, 30 more years doing something that I was not not super thrilled with. And so why not take a chance and uh within reason make sure it's something that you know feel like you could be successful in, but take that risk and just see. And if it doesn't work out, try something else new. But um, you only get one life. So like why not do something that brings you joy and brings you excitement versus sort of rotting away.

SPEAKER_00 6:50

I mean, I think the within reason is a great it because it is a risk to start a new career. Yeah, and this is a hundred percent commission business where a lot of people fail. Yeah, but I was not just like telling you what you wanted to hear when we talked. I was like, Kyle's going to be good at this, you know. And I try, I mean, I always try when someone comes to me to make sure they know like how much of the business is lead generation and how you got to create your own business. And, you know, like you've got to have structure, and it's tough without having a boss and all the different things that are challenges, but also just you know, from knowing you and in the conversation, I was like, I feel like this is a pretty low risk for you personally because of those skills that you already brought that are so transferable to this to this business. So it's a risk, but it's also not as big a risk, I think, as a lot of people think it might be. Sure. Sure.

SPEAKER_01 7:38

Yeah, I think I did not realize how valuable those relationships that I'd formed, you know, outside of real estate would be. And obviously, you saw that, but I mean very quickly, I mean, I think I was licensed for about two weeks and I was already showing houses to a friend of my wife's. And so it it it flowed very naturally. And it's our it's constantly surprising people that you know I weren't even that close to that are reaching out and saying, Hey, can you show me a house? And I'm looking to sell my house, those sorts of things.

SPEAKER_00 8:07

Yeah, because you've only been doing this how long at this point? A little over a year, or right out of year now. Right out of year. And you've helped how many clients? 17. 17 in one year. And you know, it takes like the sales cycle is like three or four months. So I mean, 17 in one year starting from zero is just so awesome. Tell everybody a little bit about what you started to do because you do have to make a transition from I know Kyle, yeah, I like Kyle, I trust Kyle. Kyle's a great guy, to Kyle is my go-to real estate agent, right? I mean, there is a transition to make there. What did you do to start to make that transition so people could trust you not just as a person, but they could trust you with their real estate?

SPEAKER_01 8:46

I think joining the team was the best thing I could have done. And I'm not just saying that because you're here, but um that the team has a lot of uh cachet, you know, it's known. Uh, I have friends that had worked with JLG before. And so to be able to lean on that and say, yeah, obviously I'm new, you're I there's no hiding that, but I have this wealth of experience behind me that I can lean into. And so you're getting that when you hire me, which helped. So you're getting someone you trust, but also you're getting this team of people behind us that know what they're doing. And so that helped. And then, I mean, there's certainly some fake it till you make it a little bit in the beginning, you know. And so a lot of uh let me check on that uh when people would ask questions that I didn't know the answer to. And like, let me ask, let me find out that out for you. You know, that's something I learned in ministry, is people are always asking questions, and it's you're not gonna know all the answers in business either. You know, only bad like ministers just always have the answers, right? And so that skill was like, okay, I can say I don't know, but I can find out for you. And usually that was fine. Um so that helps a lot. I'll never forget uh my first client was my wife's best friend. I was showing houses a week in, and she said, I'm gonna trust your expertise here. And I thought, I have no expertise, I've been licensed a week. But what she I think she was really saying was the team's expertise. And so that really helped me during those early times where I felt like I just did not know what I was doing, you know. Um, because when you get licensed, you have to take an exam, you have to go through a class, but I don't think it really prepares you to do this job um until you're out doing it. And so having people around you that knew how, you know, my first 10 offers I probably sent to three different people on the team to read over because I was terrified that I was going to make a mistake, you know, those sorts of things. Um and so yeah, having that wealth of knowledge behind me helped me feel like I can focus on just learning the business and doing it. And if I was ever concerned, I could call someone and get the answer pretty quickly.

SPEAKER_00 10:41

Yeah. Back to the starting out, whether it's J-O-G or any team. I mean, starting out with a team and a mentor. I mean, I'm just such a believer in you've got to have that mentor, that support structure there for you. Because to your point, of there's a the real estate license exam, it is a hard exam and you learn a lot, but it's not teaching you the ins and outs of actually helping people buy and sell a house. No. Was that surprising to you? Did you know you're like, why didn't they teach us this in class? Yes.

SPEAKER_01 11:07

I learned a lot about easements, um, but not as much about how to do this job, right? And so, no, I I was shocked at how much I still had to learn after I gotten through that. And it did, it is surprising to me that I've, I mean, I've met a lot of agents over the last year, and you know, a lot of them start out solo and I and I just don't know how you do it. I mean, some people have success with it, but for me personally, it would just be terrifying because uh you you've got to learn a lot. And there's a lot of a lot of every every single deal is unique. There's unique struggles, there's unique things that you have to figure out, and so not having people around you to lean into when you don't know the answer is you know, that'd be hard. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 11:47

You mentioned helping you know your wife's friend, and you've helped other people in your network and relationships. But how did people view it like when you first started to tell them? What was the general reaction from the people you knew about this? Were people surprised, supportive, like, I can't believe you're doing this? What was the reaction?

SPEAKER_01 12:07

I feel like there were a lot of uh they're being nice because they're my friends, but uh there's like a layer of anxiety underneath it. And there's probably still a little bit about about that, you know, underneath the service. But uh, I think having success for the last year, it's like, all right, now I start to feel like people are like, oh, you're just actually like doing this, not just like all right, is this just you know midlife crisis like sort of type of thing where you're gonna burn out in three months and go get another job?

SPEAKER_00 12:35

Um well, you definitely haven't done that, and you have had a lot of people trust you in your relationships, in your sphere, but you've generated a lot of yet a lot of other business as well. What else has been helpful to do all of those transactions in the first year, in addition to having a strong relationship and network?

SPEAKER_01 12:52

I think you start with the people in your sphere, finding ways to market yourself to that next sphere. I've I've fundraised for a long time in ministry. And one of the things we always said was you're never gonna get fully funded just from the people that you know. Like you're just gonna run out of people really quickly. And so learning to ask those, can you introduce me to more people, you know, in the church world? It was can you, is there a small group or a Bible study or something at your church that I could be invited to? And so similarly in real estate, learning to say, hey, who do you know that's just gotten married? Who do you know that's having a baby? Um, who do you know that needs to sell because they need to downsize those sorts of questions? People start thinking, you know. I remember early on asking the worst question that every real estate agent asks, which is are you looking, do you know anybody who's looking to buy or sell a home? Which like no one does, you know, because no one's walking- they're not gonna tell you that they're not gonna tell you. No, no one's walking around telling their friends, I'm looking to buy or sell my home. You know, it's not that doesn't come up naturally. So uh learning better questions, I think, is really helpful.

SPEAKER_00 13:53

You mentioned a few. What are some of your favorite, what are some of your favorite questions?

SPEAKER_01 13:56

The question around, do you know anybody that uh has just gone through a job change? Do you know anybody that has been renting for a while that might be looking to finally um buy? Do you know anybody that I mentioned the baby? Yeah, um, those sorts of you know milestones in life where people might be looking to make a move.

SPEAKER_00 14:16

Uh because it triggers an actual person in your head. Yeah. If I'm like, hey, who do you know that you've been over to their house and their kids are sharing a room? There is stuff everywhere. It looks like the house is about to explode and that lives in this neighborhood where I've got this big house coming, right? Like people are picturing an actual person in their head there. We're back to your question of like, who's walking around with I want to buy or sell a house, right? Nobody is picturing that one. No ends, yeah, not at all. So yeah, I think that's been awesome to so you've done that, but you also have taken advantage of other opportunities too. I remember um Kyle, we were talking about how much time we had in the week coming up. So I do this exercise where I'll ask agents, hey, look at your schedule the next week and go through how many hours you have available that you want to work, because you're not going to work 24 hours a day, right? How many hours do you have that you want to work and how many do you already have booked and how many are left? And the answer is like almost always around 20. I mean, it's mostly like you know, 15 to 25, something like that. Um, and my point of that is not that you have to lead generate 25 hours of 25 available, because you do have to have some time open that's reactive in this business. But could you lead generate five or 10 of the 25? You could. You know you could, and you should. Well, we're going around, we're doing this, and you answer something like 42 hours available or something. And I was like, it was a spoiler week. Well, but I think a lot of the people who are answering the question didn't want to work 42 hours in total. You know? And so my point on this is you really have jumped all into it. And I personally think from watching you, the speed at which you respond to things, your willingness to say yes, the amount of time you're working also has contributed to that. Do you do you agree with that? Or do you think the time is just yeah, what do you agree with that?

SPEAKER_01 15:57

I think so. I mean, I think if I was gonna do this, I had to go all in. And so treat it like a full-time job, um, not as a side project where I just hope to sell a few houses. You know, I've got a mortgage to pay, right? And so that that element of sort of scarcity where it's like, you you've got to do this. So if you don't, if you don't do this, you've got to find another job that you probably aren't gonna like. So you've got to do it and treat it like a real job. And um, and I enjoy the challenge of it. There's something I don't think I realized until I got in it how much I would enjoy the thrill of me a new person, getting, you know, hopefully they want to go with me and helping them find a house and the challenge. Sometimes it's really hard to find the right house. And so you're looking, and and that can you can view that in the sort of negative, or you can view that as uh, this is fun. Like we're gonna almost gamify it and we're gonna keep keep pushing and keep pushing until we find them.

SPEAKER_00 16:47

It's so funny that you mentioned fun because I was just about to say, it seems like you're having fun. I mean, I think the last two Saturdays, you have texted me, been on a I went on a listing appointment and I got it, you know, and like all excited about it, which like gets me all excited and like jazzed up and like you know, that's good, I think, for being in a team environment. It's good for you to enjoy and push forward. And you know, uh I think that the having fun at what you're doing and being thankful that you're doing it also goes a long way to having success, which you're having.

SPEAKER_01 17:17

Yeah, I think you know, when you are so for me personally, doing one career for a long period of time, you had this sort of deep down wonder can you could you do anything else? Are you just good at this one thing, right? And I think a lot of people probably feel that way. And so making this shift, for me, it's been really exciting to have success. Obviously, the financials is it's great to get paid, but more so it's I'm I can do a different thing and be good at it and work hard and see results. And that's really exciting. And so, you know, there's challenges, there's times where it's not as exciting. Um, but in general, that that kind of propels, I think, some of that. I I've I've got 42 hours, I've got I can do 42 hours, right? You know, um my wife's a consultant, she works all the time. If I can't work 42 hours, then um something's wrong, right?

SPEAKER_00 18:05

Man, so I love that you're having all this fun, but you're also finding meaning in what you're doing in in working with the clients. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 18:13

Yeah, I don't think I realized I would get there that as much. Um you know, obviously coming out of the ministry that the meaning was the we we always say significance was like the main draw for why people do ministry. Um and I was concerned about that getting into this. Um, but early on, I'll never forget, I think it was my third client. You know, we find her find them a house, it's going great, they're super easy going. We get through into the due diligence, we have the inspection. The inspection report has some things, but it's not that concerning. Now I'm new, so maybe I'm like, you know, like missing things, but I felt like the reaction from that report was not warranted. It was it felt very anxious. They threw a lot of money at different things to get tested. Um, and I was like, huh, this is weird. And uh we are at the end of due diligence, and she opens up to me and says, This is the first house I've bought since my mom died. Um and we used to have this saying in ministry it was that life is hard, people are complex, and seldom is the issue the issue. And when you were dealing with people in ministry that were acting what you felt like irrational, it's like you always knew there was something else going on. Um, and to not take it personally and to have that helps with empathy, I think, when you're dealing with people in difficult situations. And I driving home, that saying came back to my mind, and I thought, oh, like that people are people, like it doesn't matter if it's the ministry or in real estate, people are going through things that we often don't even know anything about. Um, sometimes we do. In this business, you see people in really hard situations, death and divorce and those sorts of things. But also people are dealing with things that you'll never know about, but it's important to keep that in mind that like people are comp our life is hard, people are complex, and usually what you are seeing is not really what's going on. There's more things going on beneath the surface.

SPEAKER_00 20:04

The issue is not the issue.

SPEAKER_01 20:06

Yeah, what you said? Yeah, seldom is the issue the issue.

SPEAKER_00 20:08

Seldom is the issue the issue. I think so much wisdom in there.

SPEAKER_01 20:12

Yeah, I didn't come up with it. It was a professor taught us that years ago, but it's it's it's been true my whole life, and uh it's been interesting to see how that comes out because every deal is stressful. People are making huge purchase, right? And they're they're scared, um, they're afraid they're making a mistake. And so learning to take some of those things that I learned over the years of industry and apply it to this, I think has really helped. At least help me not get so frustrated when people are acting what can feel like irrational sometimes, you know. Definitely.

SPEAKER_00 20:42

Before we wrap up, so you're one year in, headed into year two. Yeah, what are you excited about moving forward in this career?

SPEAKER_01 20:49

I think I'm most excited that I just feel like I've I've still got a lot to learn, but I feel like I I don't feel like a newbie anymore. And I've seen a lot of different things. I've I've seen all of the, not all of I've seen a lot of the ways things can like go wrong and how to address them. And so just the confidence. I think last year there was a lot of like, we're doing this, I'm a little bit scared, and I'm asking a lot of questions. And so going into this next year, feeling like I have a sense of how to do this job, but also uh how to lead gen, you know, how to uh broaden your network, that kind of thing. Um, yeah, I just I'm a lot more confident now than I was a year ago that this could be my career.

SPEAKER_00 21:33

I think you are well on your way for this to be your career. So thanks for sharing all this with us today. This was so helpful, and there's so much here for agents to learn from. Awesome. Thanks for having me. Thanks for being with us today. Make sure to like and subscribe so you don't miss a single episode, and we will see you again next week.