Episode #3 Eric Shelton World Champion

In this episode we go in depth with Mens Physique Yorton Cup Champion Eric Shelton. We discuss his journey in bodybuilding, and how he developed into a world champion over years of trials that got him to this point. 

Transcript

SPEAKER_02 0:01

All right, guys, welcome back to the Interlife Coaching Podcast, episode four. Today we have a special guest, Eric Shelton, former Jordan Cup champion.

SPEAKER_01 0:11

Yep, and Eric, I mean, you can see all the trophies behind him. I mean, his trophy collection, you know, we can put mine and Nates together and he'd still have more trophies than the two of us. So he is obviously a very experienced um bodybuilding competitor, coach. Uh, I'm gonna let you elaborate on your background a little bit, Eric. So, you know, let the audience know, you know, exactly what you do, what you've done.

SPEAKER_00 0:35

Okay. So uh yeah, it started way back when, I think back in 2016, I think will be my first, or was my first competition. Um, it was a course in the NPC, and that's all I really knew back in the day. Um, local to Greensboro, the big elite muscle classic. Um, that's that was like the biggest show, and one of the only shows I knew about in bodybuilding. I just got into it. Um, fairly green to everything. And then um I think I in my very first show, I got third in debut and third in August. So that kind of like lit the fire underneath me to like kind of keep it going. I told my mom, I was like, hey, I want to do a bodybuilding. She was like, didn't know nothing about it, just like, oh, okay, whatever. Um, but then I think the third place is what lit my fire just because it's like you know, third place is like right in the middle of the pack, usually. It's like not too low and not too high. So it's just like, all right, let me keep it going. Um, but then that's when I came across uh your show, Will, uh the Queen City Showdown. I think it was like in 2017, um, a year later, is when I actually came across Queen City Showdown and the OCB, actually knowing about natural bodybuilding. So, ever since then, of course, I signed up for that show and was just like, hey, let me try my hat over here, see what happens. Uh, I think I swept that show. I did I won novice open um and won my pro card all in one attempt there. And then um after that, that's kind of where the journey began and started getting um written. Um, I went and did a few shows in the OCB my very first year as a uh what is it called? Of course, as a new pro. My first show I placed fifth. I was like, all right, I'm going to the Yorton. Like everybody, I think that's like everybody thinks I'm going to the Yorton. I went to the Yorton and I got seventh out of like 40 people. Um, of course, not where I wanted to place and things of that nature. So then I kind of went through a couple coaches. Then I finally found my coaches I have now, uh Team Cook Fitness. And then I think that's kind of when I went on an uphill like tear. I think the next year I think all I did was a Yorton. I played second, so going from seventh place to second place in a year uh with my new coaches. Then won my first pro show in 2020, which was the Battle of the Guys, which is also COVID year, the only pro show of the year. Then I went on a tear, uh, went and went to no gear after that, won Arizona score chair, and then uh kind of just been on an upward trajectory until I ultimately won the uh Yorton Cup in 2023. And I think as of right now, I'm a three-time runner up. Um, knock on wood, I got some right here. I never placed third, so it's either second place, first place, and or way lower. Um, but yeah, man, I racked up a couple pro wins, and I think I'm six-time pro-win, and I completed competed in classic as a pro as well. So just kind of a lot of things.

SPEAKER_01 3:14

Yeah, that's awesome. Yeah, you mentioned you swept the Queen City, and I think it was like I remember, I think it was the second year I'd had that show, right?

SPEAKER_00 3:22

I think it was the first one.

SPEAKER_01 3:24

That's right, it was the first year. So, you know, you're looking at the guys and you see Eric come out on stage. I didn't know Eric at this point, and I'm like, where did this guy come from? You know, it's uh it there's some shows you go to and they're it's so obvious who's gonna win the show as long as we'll go over this a little bit later, but as long as you know how to actually pose and present yourself, right? But there's also times when some people are that good that even if they didn't pose well, it's still you know, not that I mean you posed extremely well then, I'm sure you made a ton of improvements. It wasn't a case of that, but yeah, your your physique was extremely dominant at that show.

SPEAKER_02 3:59

Yeah, I think uh so I met you guys, I think I met Eric at the Queen City in 2019 because he was handing it out the trophies. Yeah, because you were doing the trophies, and I was like, huge. Yeah, I was like, it's a bunch of bodybuilding because I was my first exposure to you and um just like a high level of pros in the sport. Um, so something I think a lot of people would be curious about, and we always like to kind of ask this question like, how did you get into bodybuilding? Did you always know growing up you wanted to be a bodybuilder? Were there any of the sports you were interested in? Or what's your background there?

SPEAKER_00 4:27

Uh so my background in sports is uh predominantly baseball. I was like an all-conference, all region player in high school. Uh ended up fracturing my ankle my senior year, which like kind of made my sissy time go down. I got offered to like two different places, one private university, JUCO. Um, not really highly scouted. Um, so I went to school mainly for academics, but background was mainly baseball and a little bit of football. Uh, so then I think I always like I did so many different podcasts. So I was just like, the real reason I got into bodybuilding was my cousins, we made a bet. Like it was crazy. It's just like one, there's the old heads in the gym who say I got good genetics. And I'm like, all right, let me, I don't know what that means. Like if somebody walked up to you and say you got good genetics, you're like, what does that mean? I don't know what that means. How do you see it? I don't see it. Oh well, whatever. Um, but me and my cousins all said we were gonna do a bodybuilding show. So, of course, we tried to prep ourselves. We became coaches and started coaching ourselves, eating rice, chicken. I mean, not even rice, was eating like vegetables and chicken. Just we looked absolutely anorexic in our very first shows. Two of us made it to the stage, one of us didn't. Uh, he knows who he is. He uh became a power lifter, he's very strong now, but uh he did not make it to the bodybuilding stage. Uh so that's how I got into bodybuilding. It was really just a bet. Um, and then I think I can hold it over his head to this day that I beat my other cousin. So therefore, he we he'll never get a chance to beat me now. So we're good now.

SPEAKER_01 5:51

That's awesome. I think um you bring up the point of genetics, and this is the never-ending conversation in bodybuilding, right? And um what a having elite level genetics doesn't mean you look like you're you can step on stage tomorrow, right? Like you can have we see guys come in the gym and you can look at them and know if they put the work in, they would have a phenomenal physique because they have elite level genetics. But at the same time as having those genetics, there's still a phenomenal amount of work that has to go into it alongside that, right? And I think a lot of people they don't want to say they have good genetics because then it's gonna take away from the amount of work that they've actually put in. Um, but again, it's still a very genetically driven sport. So, at what point did you start to think, you know, I could actually be a world champion? When did that become a real thought in your mind?

SPEAKER_00 6:44

I think it's when I actually got with uh Jeff and Mary Ann Cook. Um, and I think it was mainly because they were able to see something that I didn't see. Like, Grand, I see third place finishes, I see fifth place finishes, seventh place finishes. And at first, it was just my earlier preps doing it the wrong way. I was just like, yo, I'm I'm over this. Like, I don't like this, this doesn't seem right. Like I just wasn't getting anywhere. I was spinning wheels, um constantly getting the same feedback of come in, condition, come in, condition, come in, condition. And then when I got with Jeff and Mary Ann, and then we started doing things completely different, like the way that I thought we should be doing it. Um, one, I learned a lot, and then I actually started seeing what my physique was capable of. Because I think in 2019 was, like I said, when I jumped up all the way to second place at the Yorton, which when you beat, I think it was like 40 people in that one, too. When you beat 38 other guys or 39 other people, it's just like, oh, okay, like I might actually have a future in this or I could continue to do this at a high level. And then I started seeing like getting that second place. I always tell people, I think second place is the biggest motivator than anything. Um, because one, it shows you belong, but then two, it's just like you're right there. So it's like now it's time for you to figure out what to change to take over that person. And um, the fire burns really high when you come in second place. I'm always happy for the person who plays ahead of me, but then it's like, okay, I'm right here. Like, I'm coming for you next year. So um, I think that like once I started like winning shows and getting higher placings, I was just like, okay, I belong. Because I think people can compete in this sport for a while and consistently get, you know, middle of the pack. Um, and those are the people who really question themselves like, uh, like what's next? You know, what do I do? Am I ever gonna win? Or um how do I win, or how do I get a higher place? And by then I think like my whole target was can I improve? If I can improve, that will improve my position most likely. So that's kind of the monster I went with. Awesome.

SPEAKER_02 8:35

Yeah, so you mentioned that your approach changed when you changed coaches. So, what was the biggest change that took your physique to that next level in your approach with your offseason and um how you go about prep that really took your physique to a high level where you could compete as a world champion?

SPEAKER_00 8:51

Uh flexible dieting. That was the that was the big difference. Like, uh, of course, my last coach, I couldn't think of this. I actually did a uh podcast not too long ago, and I couldn't think of what what my coach had me eating that I never ate since I've been off that prep. I was eating butternut squash, I didn't even know what that was. But he had me on a strict meal plan, and I had to eat legitimately everything he put on the plane. Like, I couldn't eat anything off of it. He was just like, eat this, do this, do this. I didn't understand that I was just like, hey, I'm an athlete though, so if my coach says do it, I'm gonna do it. And I think that's where a lot of things went wrong for me then. Um, and that's why I started hating the sport because my meal plan would change every week, different foods every week. And then once I realized, like, oh, flexible diet, and I pick my own food, I get to eat what I want, and everything, I was just like, oh, game changer. And then that's kind of when everything clicked for me because I was just like, How am I getting to sub 10%, sub-8% body fat, eating whatever I want? So that's when everything changed for me because it became fun again. Like I started enjoying the process.

SPEAKER_01 9:51

Yeah, that's a that's a great point because I think it almost brings out a little bit of the uh individualism of bodybuilding preps because as coaches, and I know you coach a lot of people too, Eric, you know, there are some people that if you gave them the option of flexible dieting, it would become an absolute mess, right? Yeah. Um, I think you have to be at a point where you're very experienced, you've done preps before where you've maybe just purely stuck to the plan and you've gained an understanding of macros, and still, you know, I know when you talk about flexible dieting, it doesn't mean every single meal in your diet is, you know, whatever you want it to be. There's still a base, yeah, you know, base foods that you're going to do well with, but then we see the refeeds that you do, and your refeeds might be pancakes, right? Or you know, you you come up with some fancy stuff. That's where you're different than me and Nate. Me and Nate are like, I'll have some extra potatoes or Cheerios, and then we see Eric just smashing this fish food, you know. So, um, so what would like a refeed day for you look like? Kind of elaborate on that flexible dieting approach a little bit for our listeners, if you can.

SPEAKER_00 10:57

Uh so for me, um, when I typically get deep into prep, let's say, of course, when I do refeeds or when I got refeeds, they were usually when I was closer or leaner for sure. Um, towards the end of prep. Sometimes, of course, at the beginning of prep, my food's so high I wouldn't need to refeed. But um, closer to a show and we start refeeding, I usually get on the average anywhere between 350 to 400 carbs. So when I'm getting that amount of carbs, it's just like, all right, sometimes you can't eat just satiated, you can't eat satiating foods anymore. You just got to get those carbs in. So I think uh I eat pancakes every morning. It's like that's a staple for me. Pancakes is just because I have time to make them. Um, so egg whites and pancakes. So usually I might have a bigger pancake for that morning, probably for pre-workout. Um, my body digested well. That's actually like my pre-show meal as well. So um pancakes is always a staple. I think the York before I won, I had like Eminem pancakes, it was it was just something I made at home. And then um, but then later.

SPEAKER_01 11:54

McDonald's chicken nuggets before he riding like in the wild rack on right.

SPEAKER_00 11:59

Yeah, I'm not doing all that, but uh pancakes was was was the thing for me. And then like in at nighttime, I may do uh anywhere between like I learned how to make nacho chips with tortillas. Um sometimes I might have nachos and throw ground beef on top of it. Um that's like one of my refeed staples, a burger um that I make at home with a course lean beef and whatever toppings I want. And there's some uh let's a home style fries, so I could get like a whole plate of fries. Um but yeah, my refeeds they vary, they vary a lot. But um, I might even throw a rice krispy treat in there on a refeed day, just for it, you know. So it just really depends.

SPEAKER_01 12:36

I think the one food, I think we all have one food like during prep that we just never take out because it's the one thing we really look forward to. Like, I'm a big bread guy, like I just love bread. So for me, I'll have sourdough in my plan until like until I absolutely cannot because the satiety or whatever just isn't there. I mean, I've I've gone in tight preps where I've had bread, and and the reason I bring that up is because so many people just demonize bread or demonize pancakes because they don't really understand you know, nutrition or the fact that it's not bread by itself doesn't make you fat, pancakes by itself don't make you fat. You can get lean, eating all of that stuff as long as your overall diet is in place, right?

SPEAKER_02 13:19

Yeah, I think that's one of those things like the first time you compete or the first time you go through a heart because you think like the food selection has to be so strict, boring, and bland. It's like an old school bodybuilding concept. But I do think more modern coaching approaches, like the flexible dieting and like actually enjoying the foods you're eating, it's like it's much more common now, but it it also helps with athlete appearance and enjoyment of the process to keep people from burning out. Because I think that's one of the things that like really like deters people away from the sport of bodybuilding, saying, I've got to eat chicken and rice and broccoli if I want to be a bodybuilder. It's actually not the case, and I think more people are kind of moving away from that approach. Um, one thing, one thing I did want to ask you about. So you're obviously an accomplished posing coach. Can you talk to us a little bit about your posing coaching business and kind of how you really got exposed into that more?

SPEAKER_00 14:05

Yeah, so for posing, it was one of those things. I have a I have a really bad video. I think I posted it a long time ago. But um, my very first competition when I was trying to get ready to pose for a Queen City Showdown. Um, I think that's the the fact that a lot of people don't know that the posing is very different from men's physique from the NPC to natural organizations. It's quarter turns. So a lot of people were going to NPC guys teaching us how to pose, but NPC guys don't hit quarter turns. So my very first few shows, um, especially the ones I did in NPC and early in the OCB, I was losing. Um, one, because I I don't think I was ever conditioned enough and I wasn't ready to win those shows at the time, but also I didn't know how to present my body the right way. Um, like flaring your lats, opening your lats, like just the basic things that you need to know to pose. Um, so then I got really serious about it probably around like 2019, well, 2018, 2019, because I got tired of hearing the same feedback. So when you keep hearing you need to pose better, you need to pose better, you're posing, you're posing. If you see that more than four, three times and you compete it that more than that time, that many times, and it's like that's the one thing that you can really control. Like you can control whether you pose or not, whether you pose good, whether you pose bad, you can control that. Um, because that comes with practice and repetition, and then I also come to go to someone with knowledge to help you with that. Because if you're practicing the wrong thing, you can practice the wrong thing all day long. Like, and that's what I was doing. So um I really just learned how to break down posing to like the most elementary level I could think of. Um, so even like my posing guys that come to me now, or that's why I was decided to start helping people with posing because I was just like I started seeing things differently um from the judging standpoint, from the athlete standpoint, because as an athlete, it's like how can I get the upper hand? It's probably through posing. If somebody has a better body than me, I have to try to outpresent them. So the reason I got into posing really heavily was just like, well, what little minor tweaks can I do? How can I look smoother? How can I exit more confidence? Because I was also known for the guy who didn't smile. So if I didn't smile, I had to show confidence a different way and just really command presence while I'm on stage. Um, it does help that I'm 6'2 on stage, but other than that, like I had to show the judges like catch their eye or keep their attention while I'm posing. So that's kind of what I teach my guys. Um, I coached a few uh a few of your athletes, both of you guys, um, through posing to the point where I was just like, hey, this is them before, this is them after. Then you guys see like, what did you tell him? Right? So then it's just like I just try to break things down and be super detail-oriented when it comes to posing.

SPEAKER_01 16:37

Yeah, it's amazing. And and I know um I've actually judged you a couple of times um at the Yoran Cup. I I I think did I judge the year that you won?

SPEAKER_00 16:47

I think so.

SPEAKER_01 16:48

Yeah, uh, and I'm telling you, at that level, the margins, I mean, it could go either way, and you could justify either decision, right? It's you are holding those poses for such a long time when it's close, if it's non-head judging or solely head judging or whoever it is, they are gonna make you guys work, you know. And I think probably at the amateur level, you can get away with being good if your physique is good enough, but when you make it to the pro stage, you've got to be great. There can be no flaws in any of your presentation if you want to win, right? So, what in your opinion, what is the biggest difference between a good amateur and a top pro? Where do you think the biggest difference is between those two?

SPEAKER_00 17:38

Uh, a good amateur, I feel like they just have to have an it factor. Um, like when I judge amateur shows, it's almost like, like we said, when uh when you see an amateur show and you see the lineup, you usually can tell who the winner is gonna be. Um, unless it's a really stacked show. Um, but then it's between two to three people, usually on the amateur stage. Sometimes there's a bigger stage, but the it factor is what pops off on the stage. Like if you see somebody with really full muscle bellies or somebody who's super shredded, or somebody who just have a well put together physique, you're like, okay, this guy's gonna be a good amateur. He's gonna well, he won't be an amateur long. That's usually the saying. Like, all right, after today, he's not gonna be an amateur. I think what makes you a top-level pro, or I would say a consistently good level pro is just having all the intangibles and controlling the controllables. Like, I think that's the one thing as bodybuilders that we try to do is control the controllable. So um usually you're consistently good. I don't want to say like top tier or like because it's any given Saturday, we know variables can be off, but a consistently good bodybuilder always comes in condition. A consistently good bodybuilder knows how to present their physique. A consistently good bodybuilder basically usually has the right support system, whether it's coaching, whether they coach themselves, whatever that looks like. But you can always guarantee, like when you see that name on the page, you're like, okay, this guy's gonna be good. Like if um, I had to think of a name off the top of my head, it's like Marshall Johnson. The he's a consistent bodybuilder for 20 plus years. That if Marshall Johnson is on the roster, you're like, he's gonna come in and he's gonna be good. Now, whether he places top three or top five, like you're always gonna put him in the midst no matter what, until that day and you see him. And the only way you don't put him in the top five is if he's off. But he's gonna always be consistently good, like you're always gonna remember him, like, uh, I've never really seen a bad version of him. Um, and I think that's the one thing I'll always say about top, as we say, top tier, top level. Whenever you see their name on a roster, you're just like, okay, I could kind of bet on this guy looking good. Um, it's far and in between that that person ever like comes in completely off. Like, I think we we all have those looks on stage where we'd be like, uh, I'm not a fan of that look, but it wasn't bad, right? But I think when someone's consistent, that's what really make a top-tier athlete. They they compose, they come in condition, and they're consistent.

SPEAKER_01 19:52

Yeah, that's a really great point. And I think one of the biggest mistakes I see when people win their pro card is they completely abandon the look that won them the pro card, right? So they'll come in super crispy and conditioned to win the pro card. Then when they go against the pros, they have this idea that they're gonna be way too small and they need to be, and so they come in a lot fuller and nowhere near as conditioned, and then they just they look worse as a pro than they actually looked when they won their pro card. Yeah, and the reality with bodybuilding is that you only have the muscle that you have, yeah, right? Like, like if you're not big enough, then you've got to get bigger, but trying to come in bigger isn't gonna benefit you, right? So playing to your strengths and bringing the the same level or at least a better level of condition is what I see so many people abandon. Do you see that too?

SPEAKER_00 20:43

Yeah, I was about to say, like, that's that's one of my key thoughts I have with uh my athletes, and I actually had a very detailed conversation with someone the other day. I was just like, if you think about it, you also have to um I'm trying to figure out the best way to say this, you also have to be competitive to your class. And what I mean by that is like you said, people abandon their looks, but it's also like what is your strength? Because that's what you need to maximize on. Like a lot of people used to always tell me, like when they turn pro, they'll look at me and be like, oh man, like I got to get bigger before I compete, I got to get bigger before you compete. I said, Well, that's gonna be a game you're gonna always lose because my goal is to come and shred it. Like, I don't care about being big because that's I'm already, you know, I'm already 190 to 200 pounds on stage. So it's like if you're fighting the size game with me, that's a battle you're never gonna win because you're 160 on stage. Right. So you should probably just come in condition, and you can kind of correct me if I'm wrong. It might be like this in bodybuilding, which I'm pretty sure it is. Like the taller classes, which is usually that C and D class, they always have the height and the muscle. Usually that's what wins that class is the muscle, i.e. magnum, right? The B and C class are usually your more complete guys, they're usually complete because they're in that range where they're full, they're dense. Um, they usually don't have that many holes. But then the shorter guys, like A class, B class. Now they have to come and shred it. That's usually their that's usually their wheelhouse. They're usually the most shredded guys in the show. So if I had to put that to men's physique, the bigger guys like me and Derek, you look at the middle classes, like the Nathan Parkers and the Marcus Harris's, they're complete. You can't really find a hole in their physique. As to the tall guys, you may find a hole in our physique, but the size just trumps everything all everything else. And then that A-class, you got people like Core Killer. So it's like it really flows, but then it's also like just stay to your strength. Because Core Killer would never be the biggest guy on stage, but he won the most Jordan Cups.

SPEAKER_01 22:34

Yeah, no, that's extremely valid. 100%. Uh yeah. So I've never already, I mean, I've thought about it like that, but when you put it like that, that definitely makes a lot of sense. I would agree with that. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 22:44

Like Levar, BC class guy, complete.

SPEAKER_01 22:48

Well, Levi and Levi be if Magnum comes in on, I don't know that there's anyone in the world that can do it. Right? I mean, it's just when you're talking about the 0.1% genetics, you're talking about the 0.1% work ethic, you're talking about decades of work. If he brings his best, it's this it's no different to you saying Bolt running the 100 meters. If he bought his best and he started well, he was gonna win the race. And that didn't mean the other guys weren't good, he was just better, right? And I think that's kind of Levi obviously beat Magnum in the year that he Magnum was a little bit off. I think Magnum had an injury too, but not to take away from Levi because Levi looked absolutely exceptional. But when you get that really tall guy on stage that has that muscularity and the size, when you put them up against the smaller guys, there's just it's whoa, look at the size of that guy. You know, it's hard to take your eyes off.

SPEAKER_00 23:44

I think it's only when those A-class guys got that dense muscle. There was a guy that you're in this year, I can't remember his name, but then when I think of a short bodybuilder, I think of Mishaq.

SPEAKER_01 23:52

And that's ridiculous. And has the biggest arms I've ever seen in my life. Yeah, it's it's like Sean Plurita, right? It's it's he's the the natty Sean Plurita in a way, in a way.

SPEAKER_00 24:07

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 24:10

So uh one question I would have for you, and we've all obviously started at some different point in our journey with bodybuilding, but what are like what are three big mistakes that you see people make when they first get into the sport and like things that you advise people on doing differently if you could go back and uh restart your journal? What would that look like?

SPEAKER_00 24:28

Um oh man. Um three things I would change from the very beginning, or that I see people do wrong, is uh one is definitely uh feeding into the hype of you know the sport. Because I feel like the sport has a lot of hype, there's a lot of glitz and glam. Everybody sees the stage pictures, everybody's like, oh man, I can't wait to do that. Um, but then you realize like you're only doing it for that goal at the very beginning. Like, I think my goal, my goal shifted over the years because at first it was just like, oh, take the pictures, get on stage, this is what it's about, and then you know, you go into offseason and just blow up, you know. I do that still, but it is what it is. Um but I think back in the day, I would diet to take pictures. That's all it was about. Like, I didn't care about bodybuilding, I didn't know what bodybuilding was, I didn't do enough research, I wasn't engulfed, I didn't fully engulf myself into the bodybuilding lifestyle. It's just like, oh, I'm doing this competition, and then after it's done with, I'm done with bodybuilding for however long I want to be done with it for. Um, but then I think the thing that had to change was if you want to be a bodybuilder, you literally have to live a bodybuilding lifestyle. Um, I said it on our podcast. I was just like, there's no off-switch in bodybuilding when you're in prep because your sleep literally dictates how your next day goes. Like the way you eat now dictates how tomorrow goes. So um there's no off-switch at any given point in your prep until you know you're almost well, until your show's over with, because literally every second of the day actually goes to your prep. Um, not necessarily taking up your time, but just meaning like everything you do during that day leads to that uh final result. I think two is finding proper guidance and actually doing researches on coaches before actually getting a coach. Um, like I said, I went through two coaches before I found my final coaches. And I think I said this the other day, I was just like, it's no offense to them. I just think I wasted a lot of time um my first two or three years of growth um with those coaches, and it's just because I didn't know or I didn't do enough proper research. Um, I always tell people, look at the guys that the coaches are putting out, look at how the coach interacts with their athletes, um, do multiple calls with coaches just to see if that's a true good fit. Um, I just realized like one, I didn't know enough, and I was just trying to get to the top as fast as possible. Not realizing that that's not the best way to do it. And then I think lastly, um I said this on the other one too, which I truly mean this one is like you don't really have to be an a-hole in this sport. Like, you don't have to be. I think when I was backstage very early on in my career, it's just like athlete mindset, headphones on, not really talking to anybody. Um, and I think I missed, I ain't gonna say I missed out because I met a lot of good people, quality people. Um, but I was just locked in, super locked in backstage where I really didn't talk to that many people and network as much. I networked after the show or either at other people's shows, not necessarily at Marn. Um, but then I think last year at the Yorton, it's probably the most relaxed I was. I think when I got to the venue, I was just like, hey, whatever's gonna happen is gonna happen at this show, really don't matter. And I just went and shook like almost everybody's hand that I could that was backstage for men's physique, and was just like, all right, cool, I got that out the way, now I could go lock in. I don't look like a you know standoffish guy anymore.

SPEAKER_01 27:40

Yeah, that's a great point because I think there's something to be said about just being as relaxed as possible backstage, right? And the more kind of hyped up and aroused you get yourself, it could actually negatively impact your physique rather than benefit. You know, it's not like we've talked about this before, Eric, but we're not getting in the ring to fight somebody. You know, we're we're going on stage and we're posing for 10 to 15 minutes, there's no combat, so there isn't much to get super fired up about, you know, kind of stay relaxed, do your pump up, and don't over-pump up like a lot of people do as well, um, because then you're gonna be super fatigued going on stage. So I think like the lawyer in the sport, you you can tell backstage the people that are first timers and the people that have done it a million times. You can just walk around and you know because of you brought up Marshall Johnson. Marshall Johnson is just having a good time backstage. He's talking to everyone, he's laughing, he's relaxed, he knows what he's he knows he looks how he needs to look, and he's gonna get up on stage and he's gonna have a good time, right?

SPEAKER_02 28:41

Yeah, I think I think that was like the biggest eye opener for me. Like this past season was my first season doing a pro show, and we did three three pro shows, and it was just like the difference between an amateur show and the pro shows, like the the calmness backstage for most people was like really eye-opening to me. It was it was like it was so much camaraderie and like brotherhood, and that was like honestly what made it so much fun, it's so memorable. It's like only one guy's gonna win. So, like if your sole purpose of going back there is just to win, like more than likely you're gonna be disappointed. But it's like the friendships, relationships, you build networking, like that was fascinating for me, like just how the community was so tight. Um, one thing that stuck out for me with you is talking about the uh you said doing your research and really kind of know what you're getting into as a sport. We talk about that a lot, like a lot of younger guys like they want to jump in and self-coach themselves and don't really know a whole lot about the sport. I think nowadays with like the social media stuff, you see like the highlights of people getting on stage, but there's not a necessarily a lot of exposure to the background of what it takes to kind of get yourself to a point where you're a competitive bodybuilder, whether that be at the amateur or or pro level. So could you elaborate on that a little bit? Like kind of how you approach that with like new athletes that you start working with?

SPEAKER_00 29:56

Yeah, so I I when people feel out their console and I was like, or even like posing people, like I'll go to posing first, but like even when it came to I was like, send me uh what is it called? Example if you're posing right now, so I can see see what you're working with. And they'll send me posing from a completely different category, and I'll be like, Look, you need to do some research, like you need to know what category you want to compete in. So um, I think mostly it's one of those things of like I've done it, I ain't gonna say I've done enough research because I can always keep learning, but it's almost like for my guys I always tell them, ask me questions. Like, if you ever have a question about why you're doing something, because this is how my coaches taught me it's like the only way you can offer me proper feedback is if you know what I want to happen. So it's just like, hey, if I'm cutting your calories and you want to know why I'm cutting your calories, I'm gonna say, hey, well, I'm expecting for your weight to drop or your weight to trend start trending down because we've been stalling for a week. So now when I ask you for feedback next week, not only am I checking your chart, but you can also give me proper feedback like, hey, one, either I'm hungrier or hey, the food cut wasn't that bad, but hey, my weight's dropping. So exactly what you want it to happen happens. Um, but even to the extent of like knowing who your competition is, I think that's more important on the pro level. I tell my amateurs don't worry about any of your competition. Honestly, log off Instagram because a lot of people try to do research on who's coming to the show. And for the amateur, it's too big of a pool to find out who's coming to your show until they start tagging. Like, unless unless the show promoters reposting everybody's post or you know, shouting them out, you're not gonna know everybody that's in the amateur pool. But pros, you most likely know who's gonna pull up to a show. So I think I've done countless hours of uh film study. I'll watch myself after a show, I watch other top competitors like all right. If they come to a show, I know how to beat them, or I know what I need to do to beat them. Um, and that's mainly just whether if they're posed a certain way, I know how to pose around it. I mean, it's not like we could play defense, but there is a certain way you can play defense a little bit depending on the people.

SPEAKER_02 31:59

So yeah, I like I like that uh that part you said about asking questions. I I think we can all attest to this, but like the best clients to work with are the ones that are like a sponge. They ask questions, they send you form videos, um, they're on time with their check-ins. Like, that's such an underrated component of the bodybuilding. It's just like being regimented and being like being a sponge to learn and and the process of bodybuilding. It's like the clients that that fully commit to trusting you with the process and learning from you and letting you mentor them, they always see the best results and end up being the best long-term clients that stick with you because they they bought in and they're doing the things that they need that needs to be required to be a competitive bodybuilder. I think that's like one of the most important parts of a client-coach relationship is just having that constant communication, I would say, right?

SPEAKER_01 32:48

Yeah, and I think on top of that, trust your coach. You hired him for a reason. Yeah, don't ask every the opinion of every single person on the gym floor, or you know, you you get people that are kind of freaking out and panicking and they're asking for all these different opinions. And what typically happens there is that the person wants to give a contradictory opinion to make themselves look smart, right? Or they want to um say something that their coach isn't doing to make this person feel like, oh, my my coach isn't doing his job, or whatever it is. So do when you do your research and then you actually trust your coach and then ask the coach the questions instead of asking the opinions of everybody else, you're gonna have a much smoother prep with way less stress.

SPEAKER_00 33:33

Yeah, not for sure. I think it's I think it's kind of funny. I wish I I want to tell the story with Nate uh when I was posing Nate for a little bit. I want to tell that story so bad, but I'm not going to. You mind if I can't go back?

SPEAKER_02 33:45

Everything's over here.

SPEAKER_00 33:46

Go ahead. All right. So it was basically like uh I think Will, you were coaching Nate, and he was like, Hey, how do you think I look? And I think it was like the night before. And I was like, if I tell you you look bad, are you still gonna compete tomorrow? He was like, Yeah, I was like, Well, it really don't matter what I think, right? Let's get posted, man, because it's one of those things where I have a lot of respect for both of you guys. Like I said, I posed a lot of both of you guys' clients, and you know, Sean um specifically, he'll ask me things, and I was just like, What they will tell you first, right? Because it's one of those things where one, even as opposing coach, I like to definitely say this out loud, it's like I don't overstep any coach, and my voice shouldn't be louder than any coach. So it's one of those things where if you're telling Sean something most likely, I'm telling him the same thing, and vice versa. With um when Nate was about to compete, like he looked killed, he was ready. So I was just like, anything I say can't trump what your coach has already said. But um, it's one of those things where man, when people listen to other people, like even I think I gained a lot of my uh clients' trust because after a show I said, hey, let's go to the judge, see what they got to say about your physique. Nine times out of ten, I already told them at intermission what they need to work on and what the judge is gonna say. So when a judge confirms that it's almost like, all right, I don't need to listen to nobody else. Like, I'm gonna get this feedback, but then it's exactly what we already know we need to work on. So I think having that trust or having that camaraderie definitely builds trust in between clients and athletes. Absolutely.

SPEAKER_01 35:10

Eric, I got one last question for you because we've talked about this before. We've talked about um your longevity in the sport and how the guys that you competed against in the early days are no longer really around um and definitely not still at the top. And you're someone that's been at the top for a long time, you've won the Yorton Cup, so it's like you you've achieved the pinnacle. So, how do you continue to stay hungry at this point? What drives you to keep going and to achieve more in this sport?

SPEAKER_00 35:38

Oh man. Um, maybe I'm not hungry no more, but no, I think um there's a couple more milestones that I want to uh reach. Um, it may not even be winning, like it may be winning, you know, another championship, but I think I started setting smaller goals. Like I think the Yorton is such a huge goal, right? And I think once you do that, it's like, all right, well, what can you know? And then I think once you do it, you're like, oh, this is great. But then it's like, is there anything else bigger or that will feel bigger? Um, and I mean, I don't want to like I definitely think when I could won the 2023 Yorton, I was like, I did it, right? But I think the moment last year was even bigger for me than winning the Yorton, and that was when I coached one of my athletes the top six with me because I was just like, we were on stage together, we were battling in the overall, like it was just something I couldn't really explain because I was just like, I don't know if this ever been done um before, especially in the same, you know, in the same what division. Like, I'm literally paying attention to him backstage, like, all right, look, we got to make sure you're ready, let's get you ready. And they threw me for a loop because they called his name first with the top six, and I was like, Oh crap, I might not have made it. So I was like, at first I was like, and then I was just like, I can't be mad about that. Like, I was like, I helped this guy get here, but then when they called my name too, I was just like, oh, this is amazing. Um, but then it's like I have I think I have so many coaching accolades I want to reach too. Um, like, because I'm also not like a big I I always categorize them as factories. Like, there's some coaches who pump out like 100-120 athletes a year. Like, I'm not a factory, I I don't have that capacity, but I was like, what I want to do is maximize this group of people that I do have while I'm still growing. Um, so I have coaching goals, and then I still have like one more goal I think I gotta do until I can't retire until it happens. Like, it gotta happen. I was like, I need me and two of my other athletes standing in the top three circle for a group picture. I don't care who wins it, as long as all three of us is up there in the group picture. Like, I think that drives me a lot. Um, I think, like I said, I think what stays keeps me hungry on top of that is it's just just like that fire between second place. It's like as long as I'm right there, I'm like, uh, y'all can't get rid of me yet. Like, I still I'm still right here. And then there are so many things I could have changed about my last year prep that would have made me come in a lot better. Um, so I think once I have a prep, I'll say this out loud because you you know this is the truth. Once I have a prep that I'm a hundred percent on, I give my all to that prep, I think I can walk away. But until then, I can't because I never had a prep where I gave everything to the sport 100%. So yeah.

SPEAKER_02 38:26

I like the trendy, yeah. I like the part that you said about the rewarding part of coaching and you being very motivated and fulfilled by by your athlete success. I think that's really inspiring for a lot of people because I know for me and I know for Will, it's like I would say like competing is fun, and I I enjoy it and I love I love my own bodybuilding journey, but there's nothing more rewarding than helping somebody with their own bodybuilding journey and seeing their success. Like, I for me that's that's more fulfilling most of the time than than my own competing. Like, I I enjoy competing for sure, but like the high of seeing somebody else's success that you've had a small part in helping them get there is like extremely rewarding. Yeah, I don't get nervous for myself at all.

SPEAKER_01 39:08

I get terrified for my clients. Like, how do you feel? I'm feel great. Like, there's there's no stress there whatsoever. I'm I'm gonna go out there and have a good time. But then if my pet if my uh clients are battling out for those top spots, I mean I'm just sat there, just you know, the MC's announcing fifth place, fourth place, third place, it comes down to the final two, and it's your client and someone else, and you're like, Oh man, I'm I can't barely watch this. Yeah, it's stressful.

SPEAKER_02 39:32

I think it's like because you know, like in your head how you feel, but you know how your client's handling the stress of being backstage or sleeping the night before the show or things like that. Like you you kind of know where you're at mainly, but you don't necessarily know where your client is. So you're like in the back of your head, like so anxious about what they're how they're gonna handle the whole thing.

SPEAKER_01 39:48

I think and I think it just shows you care. You know, I mean it's like it just shows you actually really care about the athlete. It's it's hard to care as much about yourself. But when you when you when you've been responsible for helping someone else get to that position, and you know, it's not the the only marker of success is winning, because some people can have great preps and they don't really care about winning, they just want to be better than they were the last time, and that's great. Um, but you do feel a level of responsibility to get them super competitive and and get those top spots in competition, you know.

SPEAKER_00 40:20

So yeah, I think it's too because it's like I know if I lose, how I'm gonna react. Like, I'm gonna go out here, shake hands, smile, and walk on stage. But I do not know how you they're gonna react.

SPEAKER_01 40:36

Yeah, do not make me look bad, please.

SPEAKER_00 40:38

Yeah, but I think everybody handles it completely different, like handles wins and losses differently. I mean, I also don't know how they're gonna act when they win, like you never know. They might come out dancing and doing all this other stuff. So I think it's one of those things of like you can control your own emotions, but you never know what emotions that they're gonna go through. Because a lot of people, like you said, a lot of people put a lot into this sport where a loss is a failure to them. So they don't know that hey, the sun's gonna be come up tomorrow, like you're gonna be fine. I promise you, nobody's gonna think about this show a week later, and then your family doesn't even care what place you get in.

SPEAKER_01 41:10

Exactly.

SPEAKER_00 41:11

But to them, they feel like they failed everything or they had all this high pressure. And I used to think that way too. So I was just like, I kind of know for a new athlete standpoint, like they're banking on what anything but first place is a failure to them most of the time.

SPEAKER_02 41:24

Yeah, yeah, I think that's a I think that's a maturing thing in the sport as an athlete. It's like when you first get into it, you're like, it's all or nothing, like win or lose. Like it's like if I don't win, I'm a failure. But it's like the longer you're in it, you realize, like I said earlier, like only one person's gonna win. So you can't be doing it, you can't be doing this sport for the first place directly. Like it's a it's a byproduct of the process, but it's like if that's your full intentions, then you're gonna be disappointed. I think I think the longer you're in it, the more you just learn that like the bodybuilding process is what you should be enjoying, and like if you haven't win, win. But like there's so much more you can get out of the sport than just a trophy. As you have all those trophies in the background, right? Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's easy to say when you won. It's easy to say when you won.

SPEAKER_00 42:10

Just a little bit.

SPEAKER_02 42:11

Take a look, you should show them off real quick.

SPEAKER_01 42:14

That's awesome. Hold up the Yorten for us. Which one? The Yorton, uh first place, man. Come on. Look at that. And it's his name is see that's a legacy that nobody can ever take away, right there. First place. Beautiful. Eric, man, you've been awesome. I feel like we can chat to you for for hours. Um, but you know, we gotta we gotta kind of wrap this thing up. I'm sure we'll get you on again later down the line to talk about some other things. Um, if there's any closing thoughts that you want to leave people with, you know, please feel free.

SPEAKER_00 42:50

Uh closing thoughts is uh, of course, we got I'm pretty sure this would be out before the posing clinic. So, yeah, it rolls to the posing clinic, I'm pretty sure. Hopefully. Uh, so yeah, posing clinic. But yeah, if you need any help with coaching or posing, uh, my Instagram is right here, e underscore shell 10, or you can head over to my website at eagolistream.com. Um, all the same handles for Instagram.

SPEAKER_02 43:11

So yeah. Awesome. You're the man. We appreciate your time, and uh sure our guests got a lot of this podcast. So thank you, man. Appreciate it all. Thank you guys. All right, see you soon.