Episode #8 Dr. Griffin Love Physical Therapist

In this episode we talk with Dr. Griffin Love about all things PT and bridging the gap between physical therapy and training. He gives great insight on how he sees the two-working hand in hand to help clients reach their full potential and optimizing their training. 

Transcript

SPEAKER_03 0:04

Alright guys, welcome back to the Interlife Coaching Podcast. Today we are joined by our guest, Dr. Griffin Lowe. Griffin, talk to us a little bit about um what you do and your background in physical therapy.

SPEAKER_00 0:17

So I uh I am, like you said, doctor of physical therapy. Um I've been doing it, I've been out of grad school for about two years. Um I started out in like a typical out-of-network in-network, outpatient clinic, CN, total hips, total knees, some athletes that were coming in there post-op. But um about a year ago, probably a little over a year ago, I transitioned into an out of network role. Um, so there's me and one other guy. Um, we're kind of partners in it. And so we basically we do a lot more, I'd say second stage rehab now, um, which is glorified strength conditioning. That's pretty much what it is. So, like a lot of people will come in, um, let's say whether it's crossfit, whether it's bodybuilding, whether it's powerlifting, so like whatever their mode or their stimulus of work outing working out is, um they'll come to us and we'll try to figure out from a movement standpoint what's going on, what's causing us to break down and have these things pop up, um, and then kind of address it, nip it in the bud. And that way, from a training perspective, they're down and limited as little as possible, and they can get back into training and getting that intensity, that training intensity high again, like I said, with that with minimal downtime. Um, so that's pretty much kind of how from a treatment philosophy, I'd say that's kind of how we gear things in this setting. Um, and so we're very, very, very performance heavy. Like it's it should it should be strength conditioning in in our setting.

SPEAKER_01 2:03

That's awesome. Yeah, I love that. And um, you know, obviously you've been a member at No Limits, you know, in the past before moving away. And so we know how you like to train. Um, and I'm sure you're far more passionate about working with people that really want to train hard as well, right? So, as kind of personal trainers, I guess our biggest struggle is often getting people to um do their the the do the nutritional side of things, right? Is to focus on eating better, focus on sleeping better. Uh, and then for you, the people that you see probably have that dialed in, but you're trying to hold them back from training really hard when they're still hurting, right? Is that something that you kind of struggle with with higher level athletes?

SPEAKER_00 2:47

Yeah, I mean, it it's a lot of people don't have like a I call it a dimmer switch. Like it's it's hard to dial it back, either it's on or it's off. Um, and so I do struggle with that some, but I think it's getting them and putting it into perspective. It's like, okay, so somebody comes into me and has been dealing with this issue at this point, it's chronic, it's six months. It's it's just really impacting their ability to like get after it, and like let's just say shoulder issue, and so they can't do any pressing, they they're very limited with that, and so it's like, oh, it starts to feel better, it starts to hurt, it starts to feel better, it starts to hurt. Like it just they're never ever ever really able to get traction and kind of get into a program and stay healthy long enough for it to be there. And so it's like, would you rather just spin your wheels and go down that road for six months? And like I'll tell people that on day one. It's like they'll come in and I'll say, Do you want to do it this way, or do you want to say, Okay, we're gonna take a back seat for six weeks, not be not take it off, but just limit. I'm gonna put the reins on you a little to allow that tissue to heal, be respectful of it, give it time to actually go through these physiological changes, and then we can start to get back into what you want to do. Um, so I would say like that that is a a roadblock, but again, I think it's how you approach things. For me, it's like here's our two options you can either keep doing what you're doing and keep spinning your wheels and be stuck in the same place, or we can take a different route and potentially get there a whole lot faster than we would if we just stay where we're at. Um, yeah, I mean, that's that would be my my opinion on that.

SPEAKER_01 4:35

Yeah, so basically just take your medicine, right? It's like you exactly injury is bad going away. So, you know, it's you could either just stay injured or we can fix this, but it's gonna require that you actually listen to what I tell you to do, right?

SPEAKER_00 4:49

Yeah, exactly. Yeah, I mean it's the there's no other way around it. It's you've gotta take your medicine, you've gotta again, it's not that like I think from a physical therapy perspective and like rehab, quote unquote rehab perspective. Too many people are like, oh Willie, my shoulder hurts. All right, well, just don't do any overhead pressing for eight weeks, right? Like, that's not what I'm saying. You can still do pressing, you can still it if these are not symptomatic movements, then that's the last thing I'm gonna tell you to do is just take it away. It's like, oh well, I have pain when I'm trying to do a lateral raise. Okay, so maybe we need to do it, drop it down, and if it's a full-range concentric movement, maybe we just stick to ISO and then put you in that lateral raise, and that feels better. You're still getting some sort of stimulus for the delt, you're still getting engagement of all the rotator cuff and everything that surrounds the shoulder, but we're not necessarily loading it to the point where it's having to stabilize throughout a greater range and a greater degree of freedom. Um, so that's where like it's really important saying it's not that we can't do these things, it's just for you, the best thing right now is to maybe switch it up or change, like I said, like manipulate the variable a little bit. It might not be what you exactly want, which is to friggin' throw around heavy weight overhead, but it's gonna be the next best thing to get us back as fast as possible.

SPEAKER_03 6:18

That makes a lot of sense. So I'm curious. So obviously, we work a lot of bodybuilders. Um lifestyle clients, like I'm sure you've worked with a wide variety of different clientels. What are like the main most common injuries that people come to you guys with? And like tell us a little bit about what that looks like and how you guys approach that.

SPEAKER_00 6:38

So especially for active population, it's dude, it's knees, like patellatendonitis, quote unquote, it's just like uh like patellatendon irritation, shoulder rotator cuff issues, um low back, dude. Low back is just crazy. It's everybody's got it because nobody really knows. Very few people take the time to actually learn muscle recruitment patterns and strategies. Like, I wouldn't expect anybody to like just off the top of their head know what those are. And so it's like, yes, you could be doing something for 10 years and do it really well, but it doesn't mean that necessarily like once we exceed a certain load, that technique, that movement pattern will break down, and then you can't go past that. Um so for me on day one, like that's super huge. And okay, are we getting those right strategies? Are we recruiting in the right way to allow us to continue to build these blocks like brick by brick by brick onto it and that wall not come crashing down? So, like I said, shoulders are huge, backs are huge, knees are huge. Even like for us, there's a decent amount of runners in the area, so we get quite a few marathon ultra runners, and so plant fasciitis is a big one. Because like, how many people do you know that truly take into consideration even in bodybuilding, like foot strength? Like, really hammer in like foot intrinsics, ankle intrinsics, or ankle stability and calf strength. Like, yeah, we might do calf raises in like these bigger muscle groups to to for muscle development, but we're not thinking like from a baseline stability for us to have that ankle and then foot strength that then allows for up-the-chain recruitment for the calf, for the knee, the hip, the back, even the shoulder, dude. Like it's crazy.

SPEAKER_01 8:38

Yeah, that makes a lot of sense too. So would would you say um with the majority of people that you're dealing with, that it's it's caused by training or by lifestyle factors or a combination of both?

SPEAKER_00 8:52

Multifactorial, like all of it. I mean, I I know me and me and Nate had a conversation the other day because I was friggin' I dug 18, I had to plant 18 trees in the backyard. Like that that impacts your your training, but then it's like, okay, well, if I go play a golf tournament and let's say I don't practice a ton and like I've got a ton of stiffness in my ankle and my lat on the left side, like that's gonna affect my training. So then again, if I'm not aware of that, not doing mobility stuff, not addressing that impairment, not that I got hurt, but it's just like you use more on one side than the other. So when you go train, yeah, you're gonna be more fatigued on one side. So you're more apt to, if you're doing the same load, one's more fatigued than the other, yeah, you're gonna be more apt to recruit in a different pattern or different strategy. So if I'm training my back, my lats fatigued, then yeah, I'm gonna get a lot more pulling from like Terry's major and like these smaller rotator cuff muscles and things that help me complete the task, although it's not necessarily in the best strategy for muscle growth and hypertrophy.

SPEAKER_01 10:00

Yeah, and no, yeah, absolutely. I think it's like obesity, right? It's just it's not as simple as eat less, move more. There's so many different factors at play. It could be your your financial position, it could be your career, it could be having a family. It's like there's all these things at play. And you know, from from my experience, I think a lot of people they just don't adapt, right? So when they're in their early 20s and they can get three hours of sleep and they can hit PRs and they can go out drinking and be hungover and still train, and then they get into their 30s and 40s, and they're like, Well, why can't I still do that? Right, and you start to notice the differences. So, um, how how do you deal with like the stubbornness of clients not willing to change and adapt to where they are in life at that current point in time?

SPEAKER_00 10:53

See, I honestly it becomes more, and I think this is like again, it's not necessarily a medical professional, it's trainers and coaches, and like things that when you you become almost like uh a counselor, like somebody to understand, because for me and my perspective, like I'm so as an athlete, right? You become so particular and so like this is how it's gotta be for like the perfect storm, or like I've got to create these perfect conditions to create the most optimal growth or strength or whatever we're training for, um, versus like just understanding that like life is life, and it just you can't control all the factors, and being able to be patient with yourself. Like, I tell people all the time, I'm like stop beating yourself up or stop like you had something that you can't control come up, but yet you're taking it upon yourself to feel like it's within your control when it's not, and I think it's that's being able to like put it in perspective for people like your family comes into town or like sit somebody dies, like you can't control those things, like that's a thing in life, and if you just continue to like hammer yourself because you're like, oh, my diet wasn't 100% perfect, or like I I wasn't 100% on my macros or training or whatever, then like you're you're just gonna continue to spin your wheels and be really beat down all the time rather than be like, I'm doing this for fun, I'm doing this for enjoyment, I'm doing this to gain like momentum and create like a lifestyle change. And so like you're talking about the diet obesity things. Like, I try to tell people just get started. Like, it doesn't matter where you're at, it's just like do the best you can and then adapt on the way. Like, I there's things that I wish I knew in the last year to two years that I knew I wish I would have known them 10 years ago. Because like I can't imagine how much further along that I would have been, but like okay, cool. I I look back and say, Oh, well, that would have been cool if, but like, what does that change? It doesn't change anything.

SPEAKER_01 13:09

So, like, try to get people to write a passage, right? It's like you you have to learn it as you go because yeah, even if you think about life experience, you know, it's it's there might be someone that's 40 years old telling a 21-year-old that hey, do it this way, because I promise you later down the line, these are the things you're gonna experience, and they're like, Oh no, you don't know what you're talking about, I'm gonna do it my way, right? It's the same thing. You can give people in the gym all the advice in the world, and they'll be like, I'm gonna do it my way. And then five years later they come to the conclusion that they should have just listened to what you told them to do.

SPEAKER_03 13:46

Yeah, I think it's one of those, it's it's kind of like the conversation we had last week about like having realistic expectations, and then that's where like the life experience kind of comes into play. You don't know what you don't know until you come across that stuff. It's like having kids and starting a family and all those kind of things, sort to they kind of sort themselves out to a point where it's like your expectations adjust with all those things. So I'm kind of curious with that, like kind of transitioning into like with your individuals that you have that are like really busy with family business, things like that. What is like what's your go-to procedure for people? Like, if you're just trying to get somebody to do some sort of like basic routine before they train just to feel better, but they have like a busy schedule, they don't have a ton of time for like prehab stuff. Like, what does that look like? And how do you like to prescribe that for people to kind of get them to do something before they're like moving their bodies?

SPEAKER_00 14:38

I mean I think it it depends on the the case because it's I know you said so if schedule is really limited, like you can build movements in to improve mobility, right? Like, unless we're just training RPE 10 out of 10 all the time. Like, there are movements that we should be able to incorporate based off of what our goal is. And so for us, it's like, okay, if we're talking about like changing hip flexor length, you've got tightness and hip flexors, okay? Rather than doing like a rear foot elevated split squat, I might prescribe somebody or tell somebody to do. Let's instead of that, let's just manipulate the variable a little bit and change it to like a foot on the ground split squat, like front foot elevated. So that way you're getting more lengthening for that hip flexor, you're getting it under load, you're getting an attention. I'm not a big stretcher, like I respectfully I just don't enjoy it. Some people like yoga like that, that's has nothing against it. It just is not my speed. And so I try to get the most bang for your buck in terms of mobility and movement. So if I can give somebody a different exercise and still accomplish the same thing, but also target what we're trying to improve that I see in our our assessment we went over on day one, then absolutely. Same thing, hamstring length, right? Like RDLs, GHDs, like things like that, where you can start to challenge that hamstring challenge, force that lengthening under long durations, and then that'll create that tissue adaptation that we're looking for. So sprinkling it in into their actual lifting or their training program is for me the best way that I've found to get adherence and consistent adherence. Like some people, it they'll come in like, oh, my shoulder hurts, and so I'll give them something. In the beginning, I would give them something. They do great, they do it consistently three, four times a week, and then they're like, uh, it started feeling good, so I stopped doing it. It's like four weeks. I'm like, okay, but at the same time, your mobility still sucks, your functional capacity just improved. So you can press now without pain, but your mobility still sucks, and we're gonna get to the we're gonna be back here in six or nine months. So sorry. Being able to no, you're good. I was just gonna say just being able to build it into the actual training program has been the best thing that I've noticed to get the the best results and the adherence that I'm looking for, especially for people who have three, four kids that have are up at 4 a.m. training and then go to work till 6, 7 p.m. Like the last thing I'm gonna be like, do is oh hey, let here's the four exercises that we're gonna do. I want you to do them four or five times a week outside of your normal work.

SPEAKER_03 17:28

Yeah, I yeah, and I think that's that's a really good point you made there with like the family schedule and stuff like that. I was just having a conversation with one of my clients the other day, and he's like a new dad. His goal was like his fat loss right now. So he was like, dude, I don't know how to get my activity level up and incorporate more cardio just because of my schedule. And I was like, all right, well, let's look at your program, let's maybe reduce some of the volume in your training, and then hammer out 10 minutes on the stairmaster at like a pretty high intensity. So it's like you're kind of getting killing two birds of one stone because like your main priority is fat loss right now, and you need to carve out more time for cardio, but he just doesn't have more time in the day. I was like, Well, let's just like reinvent the wheel slightly, right? Yeah, kind of get to the place we want to be eventually, just a little more effectively, still within those time constraints.

SPEAKER_00 18:10

Yeah, and I I will say kind of building off that too. Like, that's a great point because every everybody's season, everybody's phase, like you, you know, training blocks, right? Like 8, 10, 12, whatever that microcycle looks like, like we should be worrying about whatever the goal is at that time. Like you're saying, like cardio, cardio aerobic training for that person is the priority. Yes, obviously, we want to get bigger, faster, stronger all the time, but maybe for this phase or block, prioritizing a little bit more aerobic training, and then next time maybe kicking that volume up a little bit more and keeping the aerobic at like a steady level so that way he maintains that level, but he's not necessarily trying to improve it, and then going back to that later on throughout that that macro cycle of that that year. Um, that's another way that I try to change people's perspectives because it's like in your typical like PT setting, people get exercises and they're just they're like a death sentence. It's like, hey, here, do these exercises, and then it's okay, do I do them for a week? Do I do them for a year? 18 years, like there's never any guidance with it versus it's like, okay, we're gonna do this for six weeks. And we're gonna this is the change that I'm looking for, and then we're going away from it. Because we've got X, Y, Z going on. Y is the most important or the most crucial thing that we need to prioritize right now. So we're gonna work on that for this block, and we're gonna do that for eight weeks. And then once we see an improv significant improvement there, cool, okay, let's dial it back and maybe do that once a week, and then we're gonna prioritize doing uh whatever Z twice a week to bring that level up. And so we're always trying to pull that that organism or that that person up in different areas, but not trying to overwhelm that system and just create non-adherence because it's like, oh well, I've got 14 things to do, I can't get to them. Dang, I'm a terrible person, like we were talking about earlier. I can't do that, and then they just don't do any of it because they feel bad.

SPEAKER_01 20:23

Yeah, I always tell people, you know, check the big boxes, right? It's like get the biggest bang for your buck. If you've got 30 minutes, then do what's gonna give you the highest return in that 30 minutes. Like, does it really make sense to be doing a bunch of tricep pushdowns when you've got 30 minutes to work out, right? It's like, well, if the goal is to just purely build massive triceps, then maybe. But but like for most people that's not it, right? And then if you are a bodybuilder or an athlete, then there's gonna be an expectation for you to carve out more time to be able to train. So if you're dealing with just a regular person, it's like, okay, we've got 30 minutes, let's hammer down and get the biggest bang for our buck. But if a bodybuilder came to me and said, I only have 30 minutes, well, that's probably not gonna be enough, right? Like if you're truly serious about competing and being good on stage, then you might need to be able to carve out at least 60, if not 90, right? So it's all again dependent upon um the person and then how serious they are about the goal that they're actually trying to achieve. Um, yeah, Griff, what would you say is the biggest mistake that you see lifters make? Like when you go into the gym as a physical therapist, I'm sure you're looking around the gym and kind of watching people train and thinking, uh, I won't be doing that. Um, yeah. So what would you what do you think that you see most often is the biggest mistake?

SPEAKER_00 21:47

Oh, that's a that's a great question. Um I feel like the generic answer would be like movement patterns or like how things are executed, but I would say I would say there's people emphasize too much like there's too much emphasis on weight and not enough emphasis on time and like tempo. Like that that in my opinion is like one of the biggest things because from like somebody that goes into the gym and it's never worked out before. Like, yeah, they care, like they look at the weight, they try a weight, it's hard, whatever. But if you can really master a tempo and a control, like that's motor control. That is a neuromuscular adaptation that's occurring, versus if you just bounce weight around, like if you just move it around, yeah, you could progress fairly quickly because you're just this the speed doesn't change, the control doesn't change. All it is is momentum and stretch reflex, right? Like that's a subconscious thing that your body does. And so if we can create more of an emphasis on, okay, I'm gonna pause two seconds at the bottom, I'm gonna create a three-second eccentric. Like those are things that teach you and teach your your body awareness in certain positions, and that will translate over far more from a force production and a strength perspective than it is just frame trying to bounce a bar off your chest. And I know like from a body building perspective too, like you can't you can't be moving weight. I mean, it's uh the whole intent of it is um like movement and efficiency, right? Like you're trying to load that tissue, you're trying to load as much as you can on that muscle throughout that range as you can. It's not like okay, we're gonna try to one or at max a squat where you're trying to move that bar as efficiently as possible. You're intentionally loading the tissue, loading the the range of motion, making it a greater range so that it's challenged more, you're yielding more hypertrophy.

SPEAKER_01 24:03

Um so sorry, go ahead.

SPEAKER_00 24:06

No, no, go ahead, go ahead.

SPEAKER_01 24:08

Well, I was I was gonna say, like, you know, strength is earned, right? It's yeah, it doesn't mean that you don't load things, it means you earn the right to load it by what I would say is like four variables. It's gonna be your form, your tempo, range of motion, and then load, right? So, like once you've got the first three down, now don't piss around, load it, right? Yeah, but not at not at the cost of then sacrificing the first three. Because that's you know, it's like if your progressive overload, every rep should look the same, you know, week to week, right? So it's like if you're doing, let's say you're doing a dumbbell chest press with, let's just say 100 pounds, and the first week it's uh you know, three-second eccentric, maybe a light pause, kind of one second concentric, and then back in, and then the next week it's a one-second eccentric, no pause, like that's not progression. Like you may have you may have increased the load, but at the cost of quality repetition, right?

SPEAKER_00 25:08

Yeah, yeah, like you're talking about like muscle stimulus. You're you're you're trading the load for lack of muscle stimulus or like mechanical tension, because that's what you're doing. Um so no, 100% because that's like when people come in here, it's okay. Usually people fall in like two areas. It's either they're hypermobile and they move way too much, and that's the reason they got hurt, or it's they don't move enough, and their joints are just so stiff and their tissues are just so guarded or whatever, and that they can't get into positions, and then that results in excessive loading somewhere else. Um and so that's where it's like we we check the boxes, okay. Do you have the do you even have the mobility and the positioning to be able to get into that, whatever we're looking for, whether it's an overhead press or a squat or a deadlift, whatever a little lunge. Um, and then it's like, can you own that motion? If you are hypermobile and your your arm just swings back, or the hip or knee, whatever, you have to be able to control that. Okay, so then do we have the motor control to own the range of motion that we have? Okay, then once we check that box, then you earn, in my opinion, you earn the right to load. Right? Like that's exactly what you're talking about. Is just because you I tell people all the time, and respectfully, just because you can do something doesn't mean you've have the right to do something. Like you could you could go in there and throw around a hundred-pound dumbbell, but that does that mean that you own that and that you can control it well enough to actually use that as your working set?

SPEAKER_01 26:49

It's a very weird because even I we're all guilty of it, right? But oh a hundred percent. Your body doesn't understand a hundred pounds, your mind does, your ego does, but doing 80 pounds well, your body isn't going, well, you you you're not doing a hundred pounds, you know what I mean? But it's like your ego says, I need to do triple digits, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 27:14

Yeah, like instead of like I want to go for the triple, it's like I'm going straight from 90 to 100.

SPEAKER_01 27:18

Well, there was there was an increment. Why didn't you rinse that? You know, it's like but but the ego and the social media, and um but no one really cares, right? It's like nobody it I'd much rather see someone move well, efficiently, with quality, than just I don't look at someone in the gym swinging around uh 50-pound dumbbell for bicep curls and think, oh wow, they're really strong, right? It's like if I would rather see someone do it with 25 pounds, but with the right level of control, and then I would actually be like, oh wow, their form, it's impressive. Yeah, but if you're just swinging dumbbells around, eventually people are gonna have to come and see you. So I guess it is good job security.

SPEAKER_03 28:02

Yeah, yeah. I think that's one of the areas that like I know for me that my my approach has changed a lot over the past few years, but I'll I'll have clients when I'm programming for them, whether it's in person or online, we might stay at the same load for quite a few weeks and just work on the intensity and the quality of the movement pattern before you talk to like increasing weights. Like if someone's doing an 85-pound dumbbell in like an 8 to 10 rep range, and they're still improving the quality of it from week to week and still challenging the muscle. Like, I don't I don't necessarily think you need to directly jump to 85, 90 right away. Like spending a few weeks there, like mastering that weight, I think you're getting a lot more pain for your thought.

SPEAKER_00 28:40

Yeah, uh 100% agree. Because, like you were saying, like the body responds to mechanical tension, it has no idea what 100, what 90, what 10 pounds feels like. It's like how well can we load mechanical tension onto the muscle fibers, and then that's what drives that change. And so, dude, I I'm so guilty of that. Like, when I transitioned that mindset in the last probably year and a half is when I like really thought about it. I'm like, I I'm spinning my wheels here because like I'd go into the gym and even even when I was at no limits, like it was I was training hard, but it's just it was just stupid jumps. Like I never tracked anything, I just went in there just to throw like move heavy weight and just push my body, and that was it. And so it got to the point where I'm like, I'm doing something wrong where like there's a disconnect. It's what I'm trying to accomplish, or trying to like the goal I'm trying to achieve, and my process is not aligning because clearly something's not working. So then I started like looking at it, really trying to think about it, and then so I started tracking everything, um, started really emphasizing tempos, changes, like like we're talking about mechanical tension, and that's when I saw the biggest jump in my my life at that point. Like I saw such a change in terms of just definition, like how that muscle was developed. Um and it just it made me, I think it opened my eyes a little bit to like how not careless, but just like we were talking about earlier. It's just if only I would have known that ten years ago. But it's going through those things and understanding like that's just part of the process. Like, until you have lived it and done it, until you've experienced it, like you don't have that buyer, that like true understanding of oh, that's why it's important to do these things. So now it's understanding the benefits of that. I can translate that over to people all day, every day, and try to explain that so that way if somebody can understand it a year after having just worked out or six months of just getting into working out, they're gonna get a lot more results, they're gonna achieve their goals a whole lot faster than if they just kind of, oh well, I'm just gonna work out and just kind of move and like, oh, I'm doing a squat with a 10-pound kettlebell, that's gonna get me stronger, right? I'm like, okay, when we first start, yes, but we're gonna have to progress from there. Like, um, so just like we were talking about being able to teach and educate people, that's been the biggest thing from my perspective, that's changed of being able to actually understand the importance of tension and tempo and pauses and range of motion and all these things that that play a role in hypertrophy and muscle growth.

SPEAKER_03 31:42

Yeah, that's a great point. That's why I think it's so important to have skin in the game. Like the best way to be able to teach is to do, right? Like to need your your own training and your recovery and your own nutrition to kind of sharpen your skills and tools to portray into your own clients, right? It's like when you get that life experience, you can better teach other people how to do things by trial and error progression training. Um, I know for myself, like just taking an example, like I see the hamstring colour. I think last off-season I was like, I was maxing out the machine, and I was like, all right, where do I kind of go from here? Then I looked at my physique after I competed, and I was like, my hamstrings could develop a lot better. So this offseason, my approach has been dial back load a little bit, focus on the intent of the movement, and then just kind of slowly build it back up. And I think for myself, like I've seen significant growth in that part of my physique just from kind of reevaluating how I'm approaching my training to that specific muscle group. And that can be said to anything. I mean, you look at like people in the gym curling 60-pound dumbbells, they usually don't have the biggest arms in the gym. But the guys that go three five is with like actually quality and tension and giving stimulus to the muscles usually have significantly bigger arms.

SPEAKER_01 32:48

Well, I think it's also the importance of videoing technique, right? Like I'd imagine that a lot of the time you kind of you get a client in a position, you take a video of them doing it, so you can show them, look, you know, this is what you're doing, this is where I want you, this is where you are, right? But I think a lot of people they'll be making those jumps in weight, and they're they're slowly their form is breaking down like week to week, but they don't notice it, right? So they just assume that the progression is there. But if they were actually to take a video and you know be critical about their form, they'd they'd say, actually, you know, I probably need to guard this back a little bit. And I think it's very important to understand that sometimes you actually have to take one step forward, uh one step back to take two steps forward, right? It's like people think that well, I had to take weight off the bar, so now I've gone backwards. No, you're going forwards because you're cleaning it up. What you're actually doing is you're opening the door to make more progression long term versus running into an injury, you know, three weeks down the line because you're just overloading the movement and now you're out of training for six weeks or whatever it may be, right? So, or hard training, I mean, um, yeah, and which actually is gonna hinder your progress more than if you just backed off the weight and then progressed properly from there, you know. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 34:10

So I was just gonna say, based off of what you were saying with the building training. I mean, I was running a training a few years ago with a lot of my online clients. They were like putting feedback in there, this hurts, this hurts, or and then I look at the load they were using things, and I was like, send me a video of what this looks like, and that's when it kind of clicked for me. It's like, I need clients to be sending more footage of their training so I can actually provide more value to them, help clean it up. Then we come in and do an in-person session together, and I'm like, oh I see why your elbow hurts, I see why you're doing personality. This is way too like load focused, and the technique's not there. So then you can kind of reverse engineer that look back at the structure of the program, and like, all right, let's take a step back here, fix the issue, get you moving pain-free, and then we can kind of develop from there. But it's crazy how often like you'll have clients, and I'm sure a lot of your patients as well, like they complain about something, then you see how they're actually actually operating in the gym or moving with you, right? And it's like, okay, it paints a better picture of what's actually going on. So yeah, the the video footage is like so important. Half the stuff that I film with my own training, I don't even post, I'm just looking at it to like kind of keep myself in check from ego listing because it's so easy to do, especially if you're trying to chase some type of like physique goal competition or power lifting, whatever that looks like. It's like kind of keeping your ego in check with that stuff so important.

SPEAKER_00 35:35

Yeah, um, like I know, so personally, like I I used to struggle from a squatting and lunge perspective. Like I I used to uh what you're talking about, I I accomplished a goal of doing a hack squat, pendulum squat, whatever. But when it came to like stimulus for muscle growth for my quads, trash. It it was awful. Like I could never I would look at these dudes who'd have massive quads. I'm like, how do I like why don't mine why didn't why don't they look like that? Like what am I doing wrong? And again, like I was saying, you're explaining it perfectly, like taking a half step back in order to take two steps forward because um I literally had to drop almost all the weight, like literally to one to one and a half plates on a hack squat, and like force my body to understand that I've done a movement poor not poorly, but to emphasize different things for 10 years, 12 years. Like I've gotten so much more glute ham recruitment and less quad than I have if I just drop that weight, force my knees over my toes, and like really force that stretch, force that deep, deep knee flexion, and then move from there. But then, like you were saying, like I've got to go backwards and drop from whatever three, four plates to one and a half to actually figure out, like teach my brain and my body to coordinate that movement differently, and then from there I can slowly progress it. But then we're talking about this is where I'm gonna uh pull out the the PT card because it's like okay, you're loading your tissue in a completely different way and a different method that it's ever been loaded before. So if I try to go from what I would used to have done was plate and a half, two plates, two and a half, three, oh, we're and then we're back to square one and moving the exact same way that I did three weeks ago and without getting that that new recruitment strategy or that new movement pattern. So being able to like just say screw the ego, screw whatever, and just I'm gonna take this period of time and train my body differently and teach it what it needs to because I know that what I've been doing doesn't work. This is the only way to get to where I need to be, and then a year and a half later, like I'm doing a decent amount of weight, but I'm still having a chat, it's it's still a challenge as I get heavier to not just try to keep the knees back and go more into my hips. So it just like you said, take a step back, humble yourself. It doesn't matter, like nobody cares how much weight you're doing, respectfully.

SPEAKER_01 38:27

I mean, if you're a power lifter, you know that's what you measure, but as a bodybuilder, like when you when you step on stage, nobody says, Hey, your physiques are really close, so we need to know who can lift them up, right? Like it's it's it's so it is it's very it is interesting how we become so obsessed with that, you know. Um, Greg, you said something there that I wanted to remember is like you talked about you know getting your knees over your toes, um, which I feel like bodybuilders have probably been doing forever, right? It's like sometimes I feel like bodybuilders are ahead of the curve or they just do it because it feels right, and then all of a sudden it's like that's what you should be doing. For a long period of time, it was like never never put your knees over your toes, it's terrible for your knees, or whatever. And now it's gone to like get your knees as as far over your toes as you can. Um how often are you dealing with people where you're trying to debunk you know, previous myths or or things that used to be that now aren't, and it's changed, the science is different. Do you find yourself dealing with that a lot?

SPEAKER_00 39:36

Uh a lot. I would say probably like 25-30% of the time. So, like a good amount. So, another one, so knees over toes is a big one. Um, never rounding your back ever. That's another huge one that like everybody is like, oh, I thought you'd be like, yeah. Um what else? What else? What else? What else? Um those are the really, really big two. I mean, I'm sure there's quite a few others that I'm missing, but like, yeah, it's just again, when I was going even through grad school, like when I was going into that, like you always some of the traditional professors and things and clinicians were like, oh yeah, like you want to be in this position, like, and you know, everybody's genetics are different, so like how why would you just generically tell everybody to be in the exact same position if somebody's femurs and tibbias and back and all that are different sizes, and that's gonna translate different forces and different areas, and so you're gonna have to look differently than those other people. And so that's when that made me start thinking. I'm like, so if we stay in one position, it's like if you were to do uh let's say a shoulder, let's just say a dumbbell shoulder press, and you're pressing in a certain movement pattern, right? Up and down, up and down, what happens as soon as you get heavy or get fatigued and you move out, you're probably gonna get hurt because you've never moved into that position and had to be there. So rather than thinking of it like, okay, we have to stay in one place or else the world's gonna implode, like we've got to train the body and be resilient in all of these positions. I'm not saying that there's not a loading pattern or loading strategy and a movement strategy that we want to have. Yes, there is. I'm not am I saying that you should deadlift with your back completely rounded? No. But like, should it be strong that you could load 40, 50 pounds with a flexed spine? Absolutely, because you probably do it at home 15 times a day. Right? Like, you go pick up a case of water unless you're a lifter, like most I don't want to say regular people, but like people who are less apt to go to the gym, go pick up a case of water at Costco, yeah, they're gonna probably ram their spines up. And if you don't have the strength and the resiliency to stabilize that spine in that position, you're gonna blow out a disc just coughing or sneezing. Um, so yeah, getting the knees over the toes, loading that tissue, loading that tendon at that specific joint angle, as well as the same thing with the spine, getting the spine rounded and flexed and rotated and loading it there, loading it within a progressive overload model, as like you would do your quad or your hamstring and your calf.

SPEAKER_03 42:35

That's wild.

SPEAKER_00 42:36

I love that.

SPEAKER_03 42:37

Yeah, that's good. Um, one thing I did want to kind of dive in with you today, and there's I think nowadays with like social media and all the information out there, good and bad, um, the the recovery side of things is like a it's it's a whole industry. There's a there's a whole industry to that now, and all the wellness things. Um, what are some of your philosophies and approaches on recovery for um high-level athletes, lifestyle people? Um, what does that look like in your approach to that and how you describe that type of stuff? What are your thoughts there?

SPEAKER_00 43:07

So, in terms of like, let's say bodywork, cryo, red light, like that kind of recovery stuff that I would like.

SPEAKER_03 43:15

Yeah, that whole realm. There's so much, there's so much depth in that inoculate.

SPEAKER_00 43:19

So, my opinion is if, and I'm gonna be super generic, but we'll hit it on the head right when we got in here. Because it was if you're training hard, you're eating, you're sleeping, you're doing all the things, like you're hitting that 90, let's say 97%. The other should compliment it, but it's going to impact it. Like you said, sleep, that's gonna be so oh my gosh, that's so crucial from a research perspective on how your body is gonna recover week to week, month to month, and even throughout the year. Like that diet nutrition, like, yes, when you're in a deficit, when you're in prep, like it's gonna to be hard to recover. That's just the name of the game, right? Like there's nothing you can do. But um I think it's it will it would complement it, but I think there's far, far, far too much emphasis of like, oh, go do cryo, do red light, do uh weekly massages and get your puffing and like do all these things. Because if if your if your program is appropriate and you are doing what you're doing you need to be doing and you're not training like an idiot as we talked about. Like you shouldn't be needing all of those things unless you are trying to win the Olympic. Right? Like all those things, yeah, somebody like that might help 1%. Cool. That's fine. If if you're in prep you want to do those things, it will help offset what you're not getting from a diet and probably a sleep perspective. But I think there's it's too much of a a hot topic or like a a fad right now of all these things and I just don't think there's enough research to show that there's that much bang for your buck.

SPEAKER_03 45:13

Yeah we're 100% on the same page there with that I was actually just having a conversation with a client about this the other day and I view this the same way I view like certain supplements they're a supplement for everything nowadays.

SPEAKER_01 45:24

But I'm just big on the basics like if if your training's good your diet's good and most important you're sleeping well like like those are like the big boxes that you need to check and like that other stuff like supplementation recovery work stuff like that's like the one percent maybe five percent but you can't get the big three things first and that stuff doesn't matter but I think people put so much of the tons of money all these other areas in the day like the basic so far it it blows my mind how many people think that they can do everything off no sleep like it it blows my mind how many people think like oh I get five hours and I'm fine no you're not fine like I have got used to just getting by on that amount but literally every study all the research shows that like at anything less than six you you are basically operating at like half of your capacity. I mean your cognitive function um you're more at risk of getting in like a car wreck because you just can't make the right decision like processing properly you're definitely not going to recover um I mean all of it you know your testosterone levels are gonna be massively impacted it it's just nothing beats eight hours of quality stuff right it's it's like it it is the best recovery tool that we have but and I get listen I I get it I got three kids and like there's phases um where you you aren't gonna be able to get that and that's okay but like you don't then try and live the rest of your life that way because you had to do it for a period of time.

SPEAKER_00 47:02

The goal is to get back to getting quality sleep as quickly as you can and just understand different that's why I think it's so important as like coaches important like like collecting data from finding technically right how the progressive they were they were crap and there's a good chance you're training your covers crap so like I'm not progressing my list I'm not losing weights like well let's look at the real basic stuff you're sleep like cover if you lose a three out of ten then we use a three out of ten costs 20 like it's it's simple stuff like that like a massive deal emotion makes it makes all the difference when you're kind of yeah yeah because like you said I mean you can you can flaunt a research paper all you want that that tells you that exact same thing but like it's not what's sexy and it's not flashy and it's not it's not cool.

SPEAKER_01 48:08

It's like like we were talking about earlier tempos and pauses and lightweight like you're gonna yield far more result than doing what's flashy and throwing five plates on a hex wat and trying to like bounce that thing off the the the catches like the one's gonna be flashy and look cool but like it's not gonna be as as beneficial and it's the same way with sleep diet recovery training like those are your principles those are your pillars that you've got to have and it's not it's not cool or like trendy it's not trendy yeah I I I think you know you you get a lot of people and and listen I was I like David Goggins you know there was a period of my life when it was really helpful to listen to that stuff but if I tried to listen to it now I I I would cringe because it's like again not that there's not value there but like the average person isn't ready to throw on a weighted vest and go and run 10 miles because David Goggins says you're only 40% of the way through you know I mean it's like yeah it it's it's the same with like Kobe Bryant people will be like oh he was at the gym three hours before everyone else I'm like I'm sure he wasn't every single day and I'm sure he was taking naps throughout the day and he had a nutritionist cooking his food for him and he had life set up around that gut right so yeah it's it's okay sometimes you had a really bad night's sleep to say I'm not gonna go and train today I'm gonna focus on getting a good night's sleep right and then I will push my training day back to tomorrow you know but but people think that's weak or that they just need to tough it out or that they need to you know take a really hard pre-workout and just push through anyway right and it's like yeah then there might be a time for that but the most sensible thing to do is just to recover that day get a good night's rest and then go at it the next day you know you're not losing yeah agree that's I think that ties in for it's like just knowing how you reach in and self-assessing kind of where you're at and make decisions on like how hard you should push your chain like you should kind of all that in the parameters of over your day right yeah uh Griff we uh this has been awesome man I got um one more question for you to to wrap it up kind of a fun one put you on the spot here what is your most overrated exercise and your most underrated exercise um let's let's let's also do hypertrophy so you're not thinking about okay all right all right respect that okay um overrated hmm that's a great question great question um it's tough isn't it dude it's a lot that's uh that's tough I'm gonna say and I'm I'm this is again this is gonna be a layup but I'm gonna probably say like a uh a flat bench press barbell barbell bench press just overrated uh that's a that's a good answer yeah that is a good answer yeah and there's probably gonna be a lot of people on here that go I've got a massive choice you know it's he's not saying you can there's better options right so correct um all right underrated underrated um let's go with a lot of people hate him but I'm gonna go with uh a front foot elevated split squat I love that from an ankle perspective from a foot perspective from a hip from a shoulder like every you can you can argue that the the benefits from it from a mobility perspective from a strength perspective stability power like all those things there's an argument for so I'm gonna I'm gonna say so many bosses are you asking 100% okay okay one more question to add on to that then we're big fans of of always having something unilateral you know in a leg day even if you're a bodybuilder because I know there's bodybuilders that'll just hop machine to machine to machine um this is the optimal for hypertrophy or whatever right but yeah I'm a big fan of having unilateral work in there somewhere for pretty much all the reasons that you just explained it checks so many boxes would you agree with that?

SPEAKER_00 52:49

Absolutely absolutely and again this this goes this is this will be quick but like this kind of goes into the for the programming and the finesse side of things but like you can't have any it's somebody be doing six unilateral movements right like they'll be there forever if they're doing three or four sets and so like there's a but it gets redundant um and so yeah exactly so from a perspective yeah you need some sort of unilateral movement for everything for push pull lower body push level lower body pull but at the same time I think being able to manipulate that variable will give you dependent what on that that person needs it'll accomplish so much so being able to throw in a you one or two unilateral movements is going to create that stability that that um that you might not get that perturbation even from a spine perspective you're getting like your multifidae your road rotators all those inter spinal muscles that are stabilizing while you're doing a row or a pull or a leg press or whatever so you're you're yielding so much that you don't understand necessarily it might not be the most optimal from a hypertrophy standpoint but guess what if it's more stable when you're doing the bilateral or double leg work double arm work yeah you're gonna yield more because you can create more force production more mechanical tension and you're gonna yield more because you're more stable so like it's not directly helping the hypertrophy but yes it really is I love that yeah yeah it's a lot checked a lot of those boxes well Griffin this has been awesome dude I know you I know you've got a a busy schedule and uh family so we appreciate you taking some time to jump on the podcast with us um I'm sure our guests got a lot of value out of this conversation um what's a way for people to find you on the plu plug yourself on the social media report uh I think it's love fit uh we lost audio then we lost the audio we'll uh we'll we'll I'll