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The NLF Coaching Podcast
Two Coaches in the fitness Industry discussing all things fitness, natural bodybuilding, with guests from different avenues of the health and fitness industry.
The NLF Coaching Podcast
Episode #10 Danny Scott the UKs first OCB Pro Bodybuilder
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Danny Scott won his Bodybuilding pro card last year at the OCB Great Britain becoming the first OCB Pro Bodybuilder in the UK. Danny talks about his journey getting into bodybuilding and his experince competing in the OCB. We also talk about the diffrences in the bodybuilding scene in the UK vs. the US.
All right, guys, welcome back to the NLF Coaching Podcast. Today we're introducing um our guest, Danny Scott. So Danny is the first bodybuilding pro in the OCB over in the UK. Danny, talk to us a little bit about yourself and uh what you do, and then we'll kind of dive into some conversation about bodybuilding.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, cool. Thanks for introducing me. Um so currently I am a university student at Imperial College London, um, studying medical biosciences, and I'm going into my final year next year. Um so not in employment yet, but I'm hoping to go into sort of cardiovascular research after this. Um and yeah, that's kind of what I do at the moment. Um live in London, so it's convenient for the OCB show being in London for sure. Oh yeah. Um yeah, that's that's pretty much what I do.
SPEAKER_01What's the uh what's the gym scene like in London? I know when I was over there for a few days um after the show, I got to try out a few different gyms. I can't think of the names of them. A couple of them were chains, but what's what's the gym like in London?
SPEAKER_00So uh there is quite a big disparity, um, which will maybe be a surprise. So do you know about the sort of north-south divide in the UK? Uh a little bit.
SPEAKER_01Will told me something about it.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, so the typically the South um has better facilities, whatnot, better access to jobs, better transport. That's sort of how it's been for quite a while. Um, but in terms of the gym scene, the majority of the sort of big sort of warehouse gyms that you think of with really good equipment are up north, um, which is annoying for me being in the south. Um, there's still decent gyms in the south, but they are more like chains like your your gym group, your pure gym, um things like that you've probably heard of. So definitely a bit less access down here. But as a whole, pretty good equipment in most gyms, but nothing like uh maybe what you're used to in the US.
SPEAKER_01Okay, gotcha. Yeah, I was um trying to think, what are some of the chains there that you that you mentioned? I went I went to a few.
SPEAKER_00So the Bog standard one that most people would have trained at in their life is Pure Gym. Um, you may have gone to it's like the blue logo, um, it's all matrix equipment, so it's not fantastic, but it's there's tons of them, so a lot of people go to them. Uh, you've got gym group, which is another one. Um and then there's a few others, the sort of high caliber gyms. You've got a couple Ultraflex gyms. I don't know if you've heard of.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, I've heard of Ultraflex.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, so Ultraflex, but the majority of those are up north. Um, but they are absolutely huge. You've got um the trained by JP and James Hollingstead gym, um sort of West. Um but uh most of the UK is chains.
SPEAKER_01Okay, yeah. I mean, to be fair, it's like that here as well, I would say. Like we have like franchise gyms, like chains, things like that. They're like 24-7. Um obviously you and I prefer those crunchy bodybuilding facilities, right?
SPEAKER_00Yeah, preferably they're so much better. The atmosphere, the equipment, and just the general vibe. It's just uh yeah, they're few and far between, sadly.
SPEAKER_01So you said there's multiple ultraplex gyms?
SPEAKER_00There's a few, so there's one, there is one in West London, um, but it's not really West London, like it's quite far out. Um, and then there's one in I think Durham, one in Derby. Uh, but these are all because you might not know where they are, they're all sort of northern. Um, which, but that is like sort of when you think of standout gyms in the UK, that is what you would think of.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, I see them on Instagram quite a bit. I follow like AJ Morris and some of those guys.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, AJ Cuba. Do you follow? What's that? Cuba Sealing? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. He owns Ultraflex Rotherham, I believe. Okay, yeah, those look like great facilities. Yeah, they do. Sadly, never trained that one.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, I haven't either, but um, I'll be back over in August, so potentially might be able to make it out to when we'll see. Um, well, cool, man. So let's talk about your own bodybuilding journey. So I know um before we got on the podcast, you mentioned it to me briefly, but talk to me about kind of how you got into your fitness, got your fitness journey started, kind of what got you into bodybuilding, what that's looked like over your over your career.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, of course. So I unlike most people in the UK, probably the US as well, uh, played sports when I was younger. Uh so for me it was football or soccer. Um, played VAP from the age of about six. Um and then as I got into my early teens, my older brother was going to the gym, and a few of my friends were sort of looking at going, interested in going. So we all ended up joining a just a local measure center gym, uh, nothing special, right next to my school when I was 14. Um, but I quickly, I absolutely loved it. I always enjoyed the sort of strength and conditioning side of playing football, like of sports. I that's that's what I found the most sort of rewarding. Um, so it wasn't a surprise when I started going to the gym. I really enjoyed that. And then I sort of stopped playing football a few years after, and I just fell in love with training in the gym and also following bodybuilding as well. Um sort of watching shows, not in person, sadly, but online, following a lot of the natural bodybuilder influences, like you mentioned, AJ Morris. Um, and yeah, I've just sort of been very focused on training since then.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, that's that's pretty similar for myself as well. So yeah, I was in the uh American football scene, and that's how I kind of found my passion for the strength and conditioning side of things at an early age. I think I started going when I was like 13 or 14. So pretty similar to you. Um, and just as a as a tall, lanky, skinny guy, it was it was quite motivating to try to get stronger. So you weren't, you know, on the football field, you need to hold your own. I don't know how much you know about American football, but yeah, yeah, no, I can imagine.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, it's quite a brutal sport.
SPEAKER_01So that was you to kind of get into it and kind of along the lines with you. Like, I just I fell in love with the routine of it, the structure, how it made me feel, the confidence that it gave me. So like I think it's I think for a lot of people that's such a it's a good gateway to getting into fitness, is like sports, because like if you want to be competitive, you've got to bring your body up to the next level to be able to compete at a higher level.
SPEAKER_00No, for sure. Yeah, especially with American football, I can imagine you need to be very physical. It's sort of the same here for less so for football, but for rugby, especially. Um, a lot of people train for that, obviously, different style of training to bodybuilding because you don't need to just carry mass. We don't need to have as big muscles as possible, you need to be as strong as possible. Um, so it's quite similar in that sense.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, that's awesome. So um, for you, the this past season, um, was that your first season competing, or how long have you been training before you got into competing?
SPEAKER_00It was my first season. So I started the first few years of training from like 14 to 16, 17, were sort of your typical early years, you know, you go go to the gym with your mates, you bench press every other session, or you go for PRs, you just you have fun, um, which I don't regret one bit. I loved it. Um, and then I think once I got into SIG form, which is it's our age 16, 17 here, um, or 17-18. So I don't know what the equivalent for like education is in the US, like high school.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, probably high school. High school's like uh 15 to 18.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, okay. So once I was in high school, um I stopped playing football and I started training like a bodybuilder. Um, and that's when I got my first online coach, done my first sort of proper diet, um, with like structured meal plans, all the all the biz. Um, and then I took a few years sort of still enjoying the gym but relaxing a bit more because I started university, um, and the UK university culture is very uh you you you do drink quite a lot, so that definitely doesn't really match with bodybuilding that much. Um, so I still and I played football again at university, so it's sort of balancing bodybuilding the past few years. Um but then last summer I decided I wanted to compete for the first time, so yeah, that's sort of where it went from there. I was decided I'd I put on sort of a good amount of tissue, and I was still a so I was 21 last summer, so I was still a junior, um, which makes me more competitive. Um, but I didn't compete as a junior in any of any of the shows. I don't know, it was just both open anyway, so I guess it didn't really matter. Um, but for me it felt like a good time to finally step on stage because I'd always since probably being about 15, 16, I don't know if it's the same for you, like following bodybuilding when you were younger. Um, I'd always wanted to compete. And sort of everything just lined up to do it last year.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, I mean, I definitely think it's one of the like bodybuilding, it has to be you had to be in a life place where things align because contest prep, we talk about this all the time, but contest prep is it's so growing and demanding, it requires so much of your attention that you're pretty much you're living in this rigid box in the confinements of the requirements to get stage lean for however long you prep for. Um, so yeah, that makes a lot of sense. Um, but yeah, so how did your how did your last season go? Obviously, we know how it turned out at the Great Britain, but talk to us about that and uh the federations you competed in.
SPEAKER_00So last season, well, as far as uh debut season goes, um, it was absolutely fantastic for me. Um I only done the two shows, so I competed at uh PCA, which is one of the bigger uh federations of the UK. I done a show in London there sort of end of September. Um I competed in as a first timers open bodybuilder. Um and I came away with the win at that, which was fantastic, and I got to do the overall later in the day against some incredible athletes. So that was I I had no sort of chance in winning that, but it was just awesome to step on stage and sort of see where I play see where I held up and see how I looked. Um, and then yeah, after that, sort of two very long weeks waiting um to compete at OCB. Um and yeah, a fantastic show, and I was lucky enough as well to sort of come away with the win of that and uh my pro card. So for a debut season, I could not have been happier.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, man. You had a you had an incredible season. Um, looked great at the OCB Great Britain show. Thank you. Um, and to be fair, like that was a that was a stacked lineup of it was.
SPEAKER_00I was I was surprised, it was uh definitely competitive. I know the the guy, especially the guy that came second to me, um, looked really good. Yeah, that was it the classic guy as well. There was a classic guy. Um yeah, he was great. Everybody's insane, everyone looks fantastic.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, everyone peaked well and like looked insane on stage. I I was saying that was one of the hardest shows because I judged the show, it was one of the hardest um classes I've ever judged was the was the bodybuilding class. Like it was so competitive. I felt like yeah, like everybody up there looked like they belonged. You typically at a at an amateur show, you'll there'll be a few guys that kind of separate themselves, and then there's a bunch that's like, all right, they're not quite there yet. But it across the board, like everybody was on point. It was it was incredible, and the atmosphere was great. Um about your experience with with the Great Britain show and what that was like compared to other show, the other show that you did.
SPEAKER_00Um God, it's it's definitely it's it's kind of hard to compare the other show because I sort of mentioned to you before the other show was an untested show. Um, which is even when you're sort of getting your tan, it's a very different experience. Um, I definitely massively prefer the sort of natural bodybuilding community. Um, it's a lot more I don't want to say friendly because it was still friendly at the other show. Um, but it's just it's it's a nicer vibe, it's a nicer atmosphere. Um and then the actual show itself, um, again, two very different shows. Um, because the one I'd done previously was a it wasn't like an expo, but it was it was very large. Like they had a lot of casts throughout the day. Um and so it was a very different experience versus the OCB. Um, and it was just those two differences mostly. But the OCB show was run well. Um, a few issues with the tanning that I'm sure you remember. Um, but that went okay. Um, and yeah, you guys were really accommodating and it was all easy to follow. Registration was easy, sort of getting there, being able to actually chat to you guys um sort of before the show when we're registering and whatnot was really helpful. And it was definitely like very welcoming, um, particularly for it being like my first season, you don't really know what to expect. So that was definitely a good thing.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, I think uh Will and Todd always put on really, really good shows. They've been doing it for quite a while now. They have a show here in the States also that they do in Charlotte, North Carolina. Um, and it's it's got a great reputation. So I knew that I knew that it would be a great show over there. Like anytime they set their minds to something, they always they always kill it. So I'm glad it was a good experience for you. But yeah, in regards to like the experience with backstage and things like that, that's that's one of the compliments I feel like OCB gets a lot um from athletes that have competed in several federations, is that they did the OCB does a great job of making it feel like a like a family atmosphere. It's very friendly. Um, like obviously it's very competitive and like everybody wants to leave. There's there's great sportsmanship backstage. Um, and I think that goes a long ways in people's overall experience because especially you know when you compete for the first time your first season, you don't have as much experience, like the the nerves and things backstage, like all those little details of how people treat you and stuff like that goes a long way in kind of keeping you calm and composed before you go on stage, like those jitters as a as a as an athlete, you know what I mean?
SPEAKER_00Yeah, no, for sure. Especially, I mean, at the OCB show backstage, it was nice. We were just all obviously you're all pumping up, but outside of that, you're chatting, you're talking to people, you're sort of getting to know people. I think I added so many Instagrams um in the sort of two hours we were back there. Um, and everyone was really welcoming. And it was yeah, it was just overall a good experience, particularly when you are competing sort of for the first time, or maybe it's your first season, or maybe you have competed many times, it can be very nerve-wracking. Um, so making that experience sort of nice backstage before you go on is really important, not just for how you feel about like the package you present on stage. You need to be confident, you need to be calm. Um, you want to have those nerves low, and it definitely provided that.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, that's awesome, man. So this is something I think our guests was most of our guests are going to be uh US-based. I mean, we probably have some from the UK, just we're wills from London or from England. But in in regards to like the different federations over in the in the UK that are like natural federations, over here the big ones are OCD and like WMBF are like them, are the main federations. But what what are the differences over there outside of like OCD branching into Europe now and getting some exposure over there? Like, what's what are the big federations there? What are they like? Do you know much about them?
SPEAKER_00God, um I should know more. Um, but in the Senva UK, you've got uh UK D FBA. Um, you've got PCA is now sort of doing quite a few natural shows. Um, obviously WMBF is massive. Um, so that is one of the ones in the UK, but also through Europe. Um and then you've got BNBF, which is British at British Natural Bodybuilding Um Federation, and then you've got quite a few other um smaller ones as well. Um, but they're sort of the main ones, and yeah, they can be very competitive in the UK.
SPEAKER_01Gotcha. Yeah, it does seem like from, I mean, obviously, I'm seeing it from a lens of social media, but it does seem that there's quite a few over there. Um, but yeah, I feel like WMBF's been big and some of the other ones you mentioned. Okay, that makes sense. Um, in regards to like the bodybuilding scene, so I think I think a good conversation for us to have would be talking about the differences really between um what the bodybuilding scene is like in the UK versus over here in the States, because I do think there's a there's a big difference um in the culture of it. And one thing for me that I've noticed, and I I think you may have as well, it's like it does seem like people over there get get leaner easier. Like, I feel like the people I'm seeing online like competing in shows over in the UK, it's like inside out peeled, like regular. Like you you don't see anybody coming into into a show like out of shape.
SPEAKER_00No, I mean, I think we said before, it's like you do get very penalized in the UK if you're not in shape, so in Europe as well. Um, if you're not in shape, if you're not lean enough, you you will be penalized for it. I don't know why we've got such a huge focus on it. Um, but it's sort of it is a very important part to especially the sort of open bodybuilding classes. Um, I'm not sure about classic and men's physique, but from what I've seen on Instagram for those as well, people always come in really lean. Um I don't really know that sort of the reasons behind it. Maybe it's just we maybe have fewer shows, um, so the standard like you you need to be lean to show up. Um maybe it's sort of diet um and things like that. Um, but it is definitely sort of an interesting difference.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, I have I have some theories, but I I a big one I think is is is food quality. I think food quality over Europe is is a lot better because over here in the states, everything's so spread out, like we have to ship stuff all the way across the country from like California to North Carolina, and so there's a lot more like pesticides and uh preservatives included in foods and things like that. And I think that plays a massive difference versus from what I understand over there, and I've been to Europe a couple of times now. Um, everything's a lot fresher, and you don't have to commute things quite as far. So I I think that plays a factor. What are your thoughts there?
SPEAKER_00No, yeah, for sure. I can imagine that it's but we've got pretty good access, so you can sort of no matter where you are in the UK, you can sort of get what you want, um, which is nice, and it's you it's usually decent quality. Obviously, you have to pay a bit more to get stuff that's good quality, but even sort of meats and stuff you can get for quite not cheap anymore, um, but reasonably priced. I mean, I'm sure the US has seen as well the price increases in things like beef mints and stuff the past few years are kind of ridiculous. Um, but most of the stuff's good quality. Um, and maybe a lot of other things. I I don't know if our food items have fewer preservatives, maybe uh fewer um artificial ingredients. Um, I know there's quite a few comparison videos out there online to sort of show the difference between between US and UK foods.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, and I think the other I think another big factor that people don't like think about enough is the activity level. Because in in the States, I mean, unless you live in a city, you pretty much have to drive everywhere. You can't just like uh jump out of your apartment and walk down to the gym here unless you live like in the heart of the city. But I feel like over there, it's like everything's within walking distance, not as many people drive. So I I do think there's uh an element to that too, where it's like your activity level is just through the roof higher than it is here, where a lot of people have commute to work, have desk jobs, commute to the gym, commute to the grocery store. Like you have to drive everywhere. I think that's a big difference as well.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, that for sure plays a huge difference. I mean, in the bigger cities um in the UK, you can get away with not having a car. Um, like my myself at university, I don't have a vehicle because I can just you were here, you probably took the underground um or buses or I cycle. Um, but I think I average around 20,000 steps a day without having to try do additional steps, which when you're getting in shape, definitely makes it easier. Um, but that isn't to say like a lot of people in the UK do still drive and do have desk jobs, but I think here you can walk to places which is definitely useful. Like instead of you might be like, oh, instead of driving to the gym today, I'm gonna walk and get my steps in, and it definitely helps, or you might uh walk to work rather than drive. And it's things like that probably do play a difference, and you don't have to necessarily drive 30 minutes to get anywhere.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, I definitely think that that kind of stuff accumulates and adds up over the course of the day. I mean, I I'm a personal trainer by trade, so like I'm on my feet a lot, and like on a on a good day, I'm in anywhere from 12 to 15,000 steps, and yesterday had like 16k. Um, but that's me like training eight clients a day, my own workout, you know, things like that as well. And then do a bit of online coaching during the afternoons. But like that's that's a standard day for me. But I drive the work and once I'm here, I'm just on the gym floor. So yeah, I think I definitely think that that's that's gotta be an element to it as well. Um, something that'd be interesting to talk about, and I think our viewers would like to hear about just with you being um are you in grad school right now? Is that what it is? Like you're through university and then you're in grad school?
SPEAKER_00So I'm I guess is is our unit I I think our term of university is different to yours, maybe. Um would it be like college in the US?
SPEAKER_01Yeah, so college, and then a lot of times after people get through we call it like undergrad, so it's like your first four years, and then after that you can go for like your master's. So is that what you're doing?
SPEAKER_00Yeah, yeah, yeah. So I'm doing my undergraduate at the moment. Okay. Um, so yeah, I'm going into I'll be in my fourth year of that next year. Um so still relatively early on in my career, but I won't be doing a master's um because I don't know if it's the same in the US, but in the UK it's quite expensive.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, dude, everything in the US is expensive, I feel like. Yeah, yeah, where I was going with that is how how do you um how do you fit bodybuilding into your rigorous routine with school and studies and things like that? Like how have you managed that and balanced it, especially like contest prep versus off-season? What does that look like for you?
SPEAKER_00Great question. Um, the answer is it is difficult. There's no sort of easy way around it. Um but it's it's sort of it's just having your sort of priorities in order. Um, so for me, above all else, I'm paying to get this education, it it has to come first. Um, but then again, I'm not gonna use having sort of coursework or assignments as an excuse to not train. Um, so it's sort of balancing that. Um, but for me at the moment, obviously I'm studying, but I also work part-time on the weekends, so that also adds in another sort of element. So you just have to plan around it. I train Monday, Tuesday, Thursday, Friday, and I keep my weekends free for working and doing uh assignments, and then that sort of helps. Um, and then it's sort of it's just making those sacrifices, sort of making sure you go to bed at a decent time. If I need to train in the morning before I go into uh lectures, then I do that. If I need to train later in the evening, I I do that. But it's just no matter how busy you are, there's sort of there's always a way you can sort of fit the time in to train. Um unless you're even I've got friends um that are doing medical school, um, so they're on ridiculous sort of placements, um, sort of doing 12-hour shifts, and they still get the chart in time in to sort of train and work on themselves. So it's just if you really want to prioritize it, you can, but it is definitely hard.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, I like that I like that point you made about prioritizing it because I know for myself too, and I think like I was of the mindset earlier on in my bodybuilding career that if I wasn't 100% dialed in and at the gym five, six days a week, that I wasn't able to progress. But I eventually got to a season of life where for me, and it's very similar to you, like I have my coaching business. Um, I have a one-year-old at home, I have a wife. So like I've had to put other things uh above bodybuilding, and that's fine. Like for me now, I usually stay five days a week, sometimes six, and like rest days that drive me crazy. But I've I've since it's over like a four-day split. And I'm like you, I train Monday, Tuesday, Thursday, Friday on a normal week, um, unless you're just traveling for like a show or um some type of work event, things like that. And then I think for me, it's like I've progressed more um with a little bit less and balancing all the things. But again, yeah, like it is it is just about making it a priority. I have a lot of uh national athletes that have like full-time jobs, have kids, they're married, and and they still find a way to make bodybuilding work. I think I get up early, I get up at 3:30 for work, but I'll get here at 4:30 to the office, and like I've got clients that already have work their workout just in here crushing it before work, and I'm like, all right, I can't complain because they're gonna be 3:30, 4 in the morning, like going absolute ham on their like leg day before they go to work and work a full day and then go home and be a parent. And I'm like, all right, I I can't feel sorry for myself about getting up at 3:30 in the morning. These people, these people are on another level, so it's always easy, but no, I think that's a that's a good conversation to have because I think a lot of times people get first getting into bodybuilding, things like that, that there's like this all or nothing mindset, but it's all about it's not about being perfect, it's about being consistent, right? It's like finding a way to get bodybuilding into uh the regimen of other things and making sure that it's on the priority list in the right order, not putting it above other things. Because I I think too many people get into it and they think it's got to be this all or nothing where if if you're not absolutely checking every single box, then you're not gonna be successful at it. But I I think some of the best, some of the best natural bodybuilders that I follow, and you probably could say the same. It's like they just find a way to make it fit into their lifestyle. They have other things that are more important, but they are massively successful because they're ultimately consistent long term, and that's more important.
SPEAKER_00No, massively, just like you said, it's not about being perfect every day, it's not about you know, Sundays you can't eat your pre-workout meal exactly when you want it before you train, you might have to train at a different time of day. Um, you might have to train on different days of the week than you were planning to, but it's you've got to have that sort of priority level. And in uh at the end of the day, bodybuilding is massively important to us, but it's not more important than family, it's not necessarily more important than your career, um, especially when you're not in a position where bodybuilding is your career. I mean, it it's it must be lovely being able to do it as your passion, but also your income is fantastic. Um, but for the vast majority of people, as you said, you've got to balance work and um things alongside that. So it's it's definitely hard, but you can as long as you're consistent, you will see progress. It's just being consistent when you're able to.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, I agree. I think I think we live in such a and social media drives us up like crazy over here, and I'm sure it's the same way over there. It's it's a comparison game, right? Like people see highlights online and they think that they need to be at a place in their journey that they're not. And I think people just want this like instant gratification. But like if anything, bodybuilding teaches us, and I'm sure you can attest to this, it's it's delayed gratification.
SPEAKER_00Massively, massive, especially being a natural.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, it's like you take four or five, maybe six months to get stage lean, and then it takes another six months to get like hormonally healthy again to the point where you can actually start growing.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, that was one of the weirder things that I noticed doing a prep for the first time for sure.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, I think it it it's a misconception that like you're gonna jump out of prep and just start throwing on slabs of muscle. I think it's because people are lean, so they get these, they get these pumps and they start to get some food back in the system, like, oh, I'm growing, I'm growing. But it's like yeah, you do have there is a process to getting back to feeling like yourself, and it can take quite a while depending on how lean you got, how long you prep for, and some genetic components as well. Um but that's a that's a good transition to the next thing I wanted to talk to you about for for yourself. I know you just um you're not that far removed from contest prep, nor am I. I competed last year as well, did a few shows um over here in the States. Uh what's what's the future for bodybuilding look like for you? Are you gonna focus on school for a few years and grow? Is your plan to jump in and do some some pro shows in the OCB? Like what's your bodybuilding future looking like?
SPEAKER_00So for me at the moment, it's a great question. I'm not set on a like certain year yet. Um within the next five years, I will compete again, and I'd like to do another season, but probably towards the latter end of that for myself. Um, just so obviously, you know, competing for one takes a lot out of you, and you do have to sacrifice a lot. Um, and two, is it's very expensive. Um so for me, it's sort of it'll be about being at a stable point in my in my career, um, where I can maybe take a bit more time out in the summer um to do shows, and then also where it's not as much of a financial impact. Um, because I think competing this past summer, I was just working at uh McDonald's during my time out from university to uh to fund that. And let me tell you, doing a nine, ten-hour shift when you're stage lean is not fun, it's not fun at all. And I don't want to do that again. So it'll be once I'm at a good point in my career where I feel like I can maybe take a step off the gas in terms of driving my career, um, and I can maybe focus on bodybuilding more. That will be when I compete again. Um, but hopefully not in the too distant future.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, that's a great point. I think, and that's a question that as competitors, I'm sure you get it all the time too, is that when's your next show? When's your next show? People don't, if they're not really familiar with natural bodybuilding, they don't understand the parameters of like how many things have to align for it to make sense for you to compete and how long it really takes to make significant progress to where it's worth competing again. I know for myself, it's like I don't I don't want to compete again until I've improved on the feedback that the judge the judges uh gave me, right? Like it's if the feedback for and the feedback for about everybody is get bigger, right? Right. So it's gonna take that, and that takes time, especially as an actual, it can take several years. So for me, one, it has to align in the season of life that I'm in, and two, I have to like check some of the boxes of improving areas that I feel like I want to improve on. But I think the good thing about what you said is um bodybuilding being a delayed gratification thing, it's like the best way to improve and check all those boxes is time. So I think taking time away from the stage is always the answer. Um, I know for myself, my tentative timeline in my head is to probably get back into it in 2028. I just did three shows and ended um, I did the York Cup in at the end of September. So, and I did a nine-month contest prep, which is insanely long.
SPEAKER_00Nine months. Yeah, that is that again.
SPEAKER_01I did three shows. Um, they were kind of spaced out nicely, but it was it was ruling. And for myself, the feedback I got across all those was to get bigger. So, like that's an easy answer for me. It's focus on family and business and then and and coaching, and then when the uh when the time's right, I'll know. But I think I think it's so important to make sure that you're in the right life place because the last thing you want to do is put yourself through a prep when when life variables just aren't aligned and finances and stress from all those types of things and the place that you're in, and we're trying to start a family and you know focus on those things. So the stage will always be there, but I think that's such an important conversation to have, especially with people going into contest prep for the first time, is making sure that you're in a life place where it makes sense for you to be successful, right?
SPEAKER_00No, for sure. I mean, having the sort of things line up and having the facilities in place definitely makes it a lot easier to sort of to manage, but it's also sometimes the what the worst thing you can do. You see, a lot of the time sort of on social media, um people do shows and then they have to pull out for various reasons um from prep. And it's a lot of the time it I feel like it can be avoided by just waiting till a year where things line up, till you're physically ready but mentally ready as well. Um, because it is a big thing, it is a big commitment. And like you said, um, particularly people that maybe don't follow bodybuilding as much. Um, I got asked a few times like, oh, are you when you're doing it again? Like you're doing it again in a few months, or you're doing one next year. And I just it's it's funny answering that question always. Um, because I could not imagine competing again this year. Um, I don't know how some people do it year to year. Um, but you do need to take that time out, not just for yourself and for your family, but also to deliver a better package. Um, it always takes time.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, a thousand percent. I think it's funny. Like when you get, I always say if you've done a contest prep the right way, like the last thing you want to do at the end of contest prep is think about prepping again. Oh no, your body, you're mentally and physically shell-shocked from the from the process, and it takes quite a while for the age to come back. At the end of prep, like you should not have the age to compete again. If if so, you've probably done something wrong. But counter to that, I I think there are some naturals that have been at it long enough where they built up enough quality muscle tissue that they can get away with competing every year because they just stay lean um through their off-seasons. They don't they don't really have much area to improve upon, right? Like if they're in their mid-40s and they've probably built pretty close to their genetic ceiling and they're able to kind of stay a little bit leaner and and compete year to year. Like I know some people that do that and maybe very, very well. Um, but at the stage that you and I are at, it just doesn't make sense.
SPEAKER_00No, yeah, for sure. You do see quite a few, the sort of like sort of late 30s, early 40s, sort of the where a lot of natural bodybuilders will be at the peak of their careers. Um at that point, even if they took sort of two, three years off, they're maybe going to add half a pound a pound of tissue. Um like something really minimal. Um, so once they've put all that size on, then yeah, you can see competing every year, particularly for people that do it as their career. Um, maybe sort of they're quite famous on Instagram for it, they're coaching, whatnot. Um, you can see why it's advantageous. But early in a career um in bodybuilding, it's definitely take time between shows. Um, I think sort of two, three years at least.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, I 100% agree with that. That's the most progress I've ever made and since I've been competing, has taken multiple years off. So I just think that's a good formula for success. Um, next thing I got for you is one piece of advice that you give to a natural looking to get in competing for the first time, what would it be?
SPEAKER_00Oh my god.
SPEAKER_01Um broad question.
SPEAKER_00It is a broad question. Um, so it'd probably be two two main sort of things. Um, the first would be just do your research, um, sort of watch because it's it's also very online. A lot of the stuff you see is maybe your like favorite IFBB pros prepping for shows. Um, sort of your Olympia um competitors. Um, their prep is not in no way gonna reflect what your prep will be. Um, so it's important. Like I was watching a lot of sort of lower popularity YouTubers, um, but ones that were doing natural preps, you know, maybe they only get a few thousand views a video, but uh watching those um sort of being invested in natural bodybuilding on Instagram, sort of knowing what it's like and what to expect, I think is really helpful. Um, and the second part alongside that is obviously you can sort of self-coach and take yourself through it. Um, but whether it's uh sort of a PT or a coach, um, having someone you can trust and take their advice. Um, I don't know, were you coached through your preps or did you do it yourself? Yeah, so Will and I um coach each other for our last video. Yeah, so you you know yourself like how helpful it is, especially when you get towards the sort of lower body fat. Um, you are it's very difficult to make smart decisions about yourself regarding sort of training, food, cardio, when to push, when to pull back. Um, so having a good coach that sort of you look up to but also you can trust, um, and you know they're giving good advice is really important. Um, and I was sort of fortunate enough to have that for my first prep, and it definitely helped. Like sometimes you do just need a coach that you can sort of have an emotional chat to on the phone at 5 a.m. because you're sort of exhausted. Um, and then sometimes you need someone to tell you to like, come on, now let's let's focus, let's dig. Um, so I think that's really important. So it kind of takes away a lot of the thinking from you, and you can just focus on getting the work done.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, there's there's several layers to that, but the two things that you highlighted are I think are really, really important. One, it's it's doing your research, whether that be like what federation to do, what what um what category to do, um, what what the parameters of a contest prep actually look like. Um, I think it's so important, and same with the coaching side of things too. It's like you're putting your health in the hands of somebody. So you want to make sure that you're making the right selection in who you coach who coaches you. And I think it's so important to make sure that the coach that you reach out to and work with is somebody that you connect with well. Because at the end of the day, it's like you said, there are not only they a form of accountability, but like mentally, physically, emotionally, like there's there's a lot of things that you're leaning into that individual for because they're trying to guide you to a place ideally you've not been yet, like a level of condition that you've not been. And and there's a lot of psychological, mental toll that that in the taxing the requirements to get there, right? Like mumbling my words there, but I think the the mental toll of getting to that point, it can be it can be a mind game. So having somebody there in your corner that's that's level-headed and ideally in a spot where they they've dealt with this many, many a times and then kind of guide you in the right direction is is so important. I think I think self-coaching, like you can learn a lot from it, but it's just like if you if you're in a position financially where you can where you can compete, you should try to try to budget for a coach because it does make such a difference, especially down that final 25% of the prep where I think the first three quarters of prep, yeah, like you could probably self-coach and and get yourself kind of led up in a pretty good spot, but it's that final quarter where your your your brain's playing tricks on you, you're so lean and tired and fatigued all the time that it's it's hard to truly gauge like what your physique looks like. So having a second pair of eyes on it is just such a big benefit. Um, such a big benefit.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, it's all I sort of done that myself. So I around sort of Christmas time last year, I was yeah, around sort of 82 kilos. Um, and then I tapered it off myself, got to sort of 72, 73. Um, and then that's when I got a coach for the sort of the last 12 weeks. Um, because it's when you've especially when you've been going to the gym and you've been doing your diet and your your training for a while, you can get yourself most of the way there. Um, but it's those those last few weeks, especially if you are coming in sort of stage lean um and you want to deliver a good package where it is really helpful. Um but as you said, financially as well, coach it can be expensive. Um, but then again, even if you've just got a friend that's really into bodybuilding as well, that can help you. Like you said, you and Will sort of help each other, it's fantastic. Um and then yeah, even if you need to budget for it by maybe doing one or two less shows, but it makes it means you can have sort of two or two or three really good shows where you've got a coach for you in those few months, I think is really important.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, and I think the biggest thing there is like if someone's gonna force you to push and dig a little bit deeper into your cut when when you might not feel like you need it, right? It's like you need that that second pair of eyes to tell you, look, if we want to, if we want to get to this level, like we've got to push, and then it's all right, yeah. You have somebody holding you accountable there, and that's awesome. All right, one last question for you today. It's the most exciting question of the day for a foodie like myself. What's your look like? If you're having a free meal in off-season or post-show meal, like after after a show, what's it gotta be?
SPEAKER_00God, um, I like this question. Um if I'm having like an off-season meal, honestly, it's probably gonna be a domino's um, some some sort of pizza, love pizza. Um, or a if I was eating a bit cleaner, it would be like a nice steak, um, which is quite quite quite a common answer, I feel like. Um and then uh post-show, uh, I had uh I don't know if it was the same view. I had really weird cravings um during sort of the last few weeks of prep.
SPEAKER_01Oh yeah.
SPEAKER_00Um like I really wanted a um, I think you guys call it a fish fillet from McDonald's.
SPEAKER_01Okay, yeah.
SPEAKER_00A fillet of fish. I just wanted tartar sauce. Um, I don't know why. Um, and I actually started enjoying eating fish when I never really, unless it was white fish, I never enjoyed it before. So that was weird. Um, but yeah, I think for me, like a sort of a good pizza um is sort of yeah, is it hits the nails on the head?
SPEAKER_01What's the go-to pizza place in London for people visiting? I'll be there in August, I'll have to try it out.
SPEAKER_00Um, you guys have dominoes, don't you?
SPEAKER_01Yeah, I believe. Yeah, maybe it's not as good. But also, we're also used to having them.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, it's right, it's pretty typical. Um there's a few. If you want to go to like I went to one the other day, actually. Um, there's this Italian restaurant in Soho. Um, I can I can message you after because it's a weird name. It's called like Circulo Popolar. Um, weird name, um, but really nice sort of Italian restaurant in London. I went there, it's in uh I think Soho it was. I went there last weekend, um, and that was great. I would happily go there after stepping on stage.
SPEAKER_01Fair, you can't go wrong with Italian. Personally, I'm a big I'm a big sushi and steak guy, so you are you are on the market with stake.
SPEAKER_00Okay, the steak. I can't do the sushi. I know a lot of Americans are into sushi. Um less no, yeah, and less so in the UK. I mean, yeah, a lot of people I feel like aren't brought up on it as much. Um, so for me, like I'll happily have a fish and chips. Um, but the sushi I just can't get behind. I did have a good fish and chips when I was over there.
SPEAKER_01I think it was a place called was it Pops? It's a little hole in the wall in Soho. I think it's called Pop. Oh, yeah, I've heard of that. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, dude, it was it was top notch. I mean, that was the only fish and chips I got, but it was. Fantastic. You've got to try it while you're here, aren't you? Yeah, yeah, you have to. It's a staple. Well, heck yeah, man. Well, hey, Dan, you were a great guest. I appreciate you taking some time. I know you've got a busy schedule, but I'm sure our guests really enjoy listening to you talk about your bodybuilding experience and what bodybuilding culture is like over in the UK. It was definitely super insightful, and I feel like I've learned a lot. So, dude, I uh really appreciate you taking time to meet with us and uh looking forward to being uh uh a fan of yours on the social media, watching your your bodybuilding journey continue to progress and what you do with your career. So, best of luck with all that. Do you think uh will you be making an appearance at the Great Britain show this year?
SPEAKER_00I will be. Um, well, yeah, hopefully I'll be there as long as you guys let me. Um it's August 22nd. Have I got that right? Yep, August 22nd. Fantastic. Yeah, I will be there. I'm really looking forward to it. So it'll be exciting to see sort of what competitors can bring this year. Yeah, man.
SPEAKER_01Well, it'll be great to catch up in person um and uh just kind of talk to you about how things are going and and just see year two of the of the Great Britain show. I know Will and Todd will put on another great show, and I'm sure it'll grow this year. So congratulations on all your success with everything, brother. And uh thanks again for your time, all right? No, thank you so much.