Episode #15 Patrick Asante Posing Coach and OCB Classic Pro

In this episode we sit down with Patrick and talk about his bodybuilding career and how he built up a posing coaching business through a passion for stage presentation. Pat has a background in competitive sport that helped build his discipline for bodybuilding. 

Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:03

All right, guys, welcome back to the NLF coaching podcast. Uh, we have an exciting guest today, all the way over from London, um, Patrick Sante. So Patrick and I kind of crossed paths in London last year. He did uh Will's show, the Great Britain show, last October. Um, so we got to see him win his pro card in the OCB in classic physique. Um he brought a great look to the stage, um, very impressive in a stacked lineup, um, did really well. Uh, we've we've connected through social media and stayed in touch, and uh I saw like all the things he's had going on with his bodybuilding journey, and we wanted to get him on the podcast and talk a little bit about kind of what he does, um, where his bodybuilding journey has been going the past year, and uh dive into some of the posing coaching business that he runs as well, and talk about some other things bodybuilding and fitness related in general. So, Patrick, I'll let you uh take the lead here and uh kind of introduce yourself and give us a little background on yourself work.

SPEAKER_01 0:58

Right. So I should know hi everyone. My name is Pat. Patrick Santa calls me original fat pat from based on my Instagram um name. Um, yeah, and that just basically a little nickname I kind of got from my my training house, but back before I started bodybuilding, we just used to kind of like do a bit of powerlifting training and just like e and dirty bulking back then. And I got a little chubby, so that was like my little nickname, original fat pat, and that just came a new thing. Um, I'm originally from Ghana. Um, I moved to the UK in my teens and pretty much been living in London since. Uh got involved in bodybuilding six years ago now. Um to 2021 was like the first year I got into bodybuilding, and uh it's pretty much just like a very uh forward experience, which is basically like I got into it through my my my closest friend um Connor, who uh was planning on competing, so I just kind of followed his journey with him. Went to watch his first show, and then I thought it was pretty cool, so I thought I'd give it a go. And here I am, six years later, I was still competing. Um, I work as a firefighter in the UK, uh, aviation firefighting. So I'm based at London Sea Airport. Um, so pretty much do that full-time, and obviously I do and now do run opposing the posing society as part of um uh a thing that picked up through bodybuilding. My original background was from cheerleading and gymnastics, so I kind of like have that kind of performance aspect which I learned through that, and that is something I've kind of been able to transfer from um performance side of things into bodybuilding, which I now use to help a lot of clients with their posing and performance aspects of bodybuilding. Um, so yeah, that's a little introduction about myself.

SPEAKER_00 2:55

That's awesome. So I'm I'm really interested to hear a little bit more about your background, and you said uh truly and gymnastics.

SPEAKER_02 3:01

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 3:02

Yeah. So I feel like a lot of bodybuilders have a background in this, and I I've always thought that it builds such a good base for any type of physique competition goals. Um, there's quite a few people in the OCB that have like really impressive physiques that got their start in athletics in that background. So, can we uh elaborate on that a little bit and talk to us about um kind of how your journey started there and how you feel like that's benefited you with bodybuilding?

SPEAKER_01 3:28

So, I mean, originally like I grew up in competitive sports, like from a young age. Like my mom was a track runner, uh my dad played football. So, like within our family, like all the brothers and sisters were always involved in some kind of like competitive sports growing up. Um, so I think that's where the whole thing generated from. I did a bit of raccoon sports growing up, then it went to track and field, then it went to rugby, um which is kind of similar to like American football, I guess. Um, and then it moved on to uh um from rugby move on to gymnastics and cheerleading growing up. But I think one thing that I've noticed I picked up well, one thing I feel like I've brought with me into bodybuilding is the resilience that teen sports and competitive sports teach as a child. Um, you kind of learn to work as an individual and you kind of learn to work as a part of a team. So I think having that those foundations laid out from a very young age made my transition into bodybuilding very, very smooth. And I understood what it took to get to the top in terms of like you have to like give give all you can to get what you want to when it comes to the sports and in bodybuilding, um, in terms of commitment, in terms of like the training, in terms of like your mental, um, where your mind needs to be to kind of get to the place that bodybuilding takes you to achieve the look that you want. Um, I think, yeah, I think having that background in cheerleading and gymnastics, especially in cheerleading, was one thing I've changed and shaped the way I I basically run my bodybuilding career and kind of build up from it there. Um, just because you're taught you you really, really learn to push past beyond, which is something that you pretty much need for bodybuilding. So, yeah, I think it's it played a huge, huge part in my upbringing and in where I am in life right now, because it's that it's not just about a sport and winning titles, it's a lot of life skills that you learn through teen sport, which you then grow up and it becomes part of your life, really.

SPEAKER_00 5:32

That's awesome. Yeah, I'm a big proponent of of like sports being like the gateway entry to bodybuilding. A lot of people, when they get out of competitive sports, are looking for an outlet, and a lot of people get into they're introduced to training um from competitive sports. So I think it's a natural progression when you when you kind of maybe age out of uh of competitive sports for the most part, it's like finding a new outlet to shift your training towards. I know that's for myself, that's how I got into the bodybuilding side of things. American football got me into training, and then training got me into bodybuilding, but it kind of was a gateway, right? And I think so many things can relate to that. Like, I think like you touched on the the fundamentals and the competitiveness and the disciplines you learn from the youth sports. Um, I think that's such an important skill to develop at a young age, and I think that it just makes a natural transition into bodybuilding make a lot of sense for people when they get when they get to that point. Because I think the majority of people don't go to collegiate or like professional sport, right? So it's like when you get to that point, all right, what am I gonna do now? I gotta train for something might as well tell us that, right? That's how a lot of us kind of got started.

SPEAKER_01 6:37

Yeah, pretty much. I think it was it was also a case of like um when I retired from well, when I say retire, when I stopped competing in in gymnastics and chair, I think it was a case of like I want to stay fit, I want to get stronger, I want to just kind of keep myself um going. So that's what got me to the gym, lifting weights, and then that pretty much I transitioned into bodybuilding. So yeah, it's just it does it does come a very long way.

SPEAKER_00 7:04

Yeah, so how many years of training did you have under your belt before you did your first show?

SPEAKER_01 7:09

Uh for bodybuilding training, um, it was actually I would say about 24 weeks, but prior to that, I'd already been doing powerlifting training um with my with my Karen Flatmate. We used to be like we we kind of uh pay for, well I say I paid, he paid for the Larry Breals uh powerlifting program, and we basically rinsed that on repeat for a good three years just because we just wanted to get strong, and then that then transitioned to him wanting to compete. So he then started his first prep. And while he was doing this prep, I decided like I wanna I'm gonna try and follow a diet to see how I get along with the diet, and also just kind of feel what he's going through to help him, like to make it easy. Um then I went to watch his first show, watched him, watched him on stage, and I just thought this was amazing. Just seeing the way he came to live on stage, just seeing the joy on his face, like he just felt he looked like he was at home. It was like the plate he was meant to be there. And seeing that it made me curious about I wonder if this is something for me as well. So I then got a coach, and then 12 weeks late. So I did I originally did like 12 weeks of a diet in place with him, and then I went, I got a coach and did 12 weeks my coach into my first show. So that's how I initially started. Um, but yeah, it was three years of powerlifting, then into about 12 weeks of bodybuilding training, and then competed. And then prior to the powerlifting, it was just basically um kind of like going to the gym, lifting, like trying to train, but I literally had no idea what I was doing. I was just there to kind of just try and lift weight basically, and try and stay in shape. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 8:51

So you found a love for training first, and then the bodybuilding came to the bioprocessing. Yeah, yeah. I think that's such a uh important thing for people to consider before they get into like when they even consider competing for the first time. It's like you need to learn to love the process of the training side of things first because bodybuilding is very grueling and taxing. Um, and it'll it'll squash your squash your desire to be in the gym sometimes, especially in those those really lean last few weeks of a contest prep. Like your desire to train is pretty pretty nullified, right? Like, yeah, if you've gotten truly contest lean, like you the the love for training is it's kind of zapped at that point, and you just kind of hold on to the discipline. So I I think that's such an underrated component of the whole process, is like just learning to love training and remembering why you're in the gym first, and then once you have that established and that's like part of your lifestyle, then I think it makes more sense to get into the competing side of things, but one can't come before the other.

SPEAKER_01 9:46

Yeah, 100%. Like we we'd love we'd learn to love training, we learn to like really push ourselves. Um, and also just like week by week we would go in there, like literally push ourselves with training, and just we just fell in love with it. The fact that we were getting stronger week by week, the fact that we're moving ways that we could not move. I remember we've we moved we set our goal because we was going to like a commercial gym to train, and the the dumbbells in the commercial gyms were only went up to like I believe was like 80 34 kgs. Um, I don't know what that's in pounds actually. Um it went up to like 34 kgs over here, which I think is around about roughly, I want to say around about maybe just under under 70 pounds. Oh yeah, yeah, I think around there, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Um yeah. So we we said to ourselves, like the moment that we like we said we're not gonna sign up to like a proper bodybuilding gym until we can complete this. So that was like almost like fun for us to like chase like getting stronger every single week and kind of pushing ourselves every single week. And the moment we hit that, we just went, I guess we've graduated now, we can just move on to like a bigger gym and lift heavier weights now. So it was that whole process of it just made it more fun. And I think what you don't have that and you go into bodybuilding, you're never gonna love it. Like getting lean and getting um getting on stage is great, but your love for training has always got to be a priority, otherwise, you will not enjoy it at all.

SPEAKER_00 11:15

Yeah, and I think it's also like if you like it, it's people forget that it's competitive bodybuilding, it's not just a bucketless thing, right? Like this, it's like serious. So you need to have like the love and desire of training and actually be considerate of like building a physique before you even think about like getting lean to trying. There's there's years of work that goes into it to build up a physique that's worthy of of bringing something to the stage, right? Like that's a whole process in itself. Um, so in in terms of career, so you're you are a firefighter at the airport, you said? Yes, yeah. I'm a firefighter at Lanacy Airport, yeah. That's really cool. So I imagine in in that realm, like you have to take pretty good care of yourself too, like with even if you weren't competing, like just training to stay in shape cardiovascularly and endurance-wise, like I'm sure that's a big component of it. How do you blend um how do you blend bodybuilding with like your training for being in the fire department? Are they kind of are they different? Do you try to incorporate anything specific for like the demands of your job?

SPEAKER_01 12:14

So, in terms of it, like you said, uh we have to keep our fitness up when it comes to our job. Um, so it it was kind of kind of it was pretty kind of smooth sailing, um, because our shifts we work very different shifts to like everyone else, where we do like one day, two days off, and now our days, our day shifts are like literally six and a half hour days, so you have your there pretty much all day from six in the morning to ten thirty at night. Um so you do one day, then two days off, one day, two days off, one day, then you're working on free for three days, and it kind of goes in that set that cycle. Um, so it's very, very long days. But luckily, our state, I mean, most fire stations have gyms there anyway, so to help with the fitness. So I think having the gym there definitely helped me transition into bodybuilding and a lot easier because I could just I could get my cardio done when I was at work, I could get my my waist training done when I was at work. And I think just having um my colleagues with me who were all into training and into fitness kind of really guided me there. There's a few of them that had competed before. Um so they kind of knew what I was gonna go through. They so they basically held my hand throughout the whole process of getting ready for my first show. Um, so it definitely was like easy transition, it wasn't like anything indifferent apart from when we when obviously your diet, your meals are very low, and you get shout like middle, like after 12 hours of the day of being at work and you have literally low energy. But like in I kind of saw any opportunity like that as a challenge, like where if something, if I knew my energy was depleted, or like I knew I was very low on food, something came up, I would just say to myself, which is some a trick that I kind of taught myself through cheerleading, it was like, right, what if you have to go on stage and this is how you the only energy you had, how would you pursue, how would you push past that barrier? So anytime something arrives like that, it was almost like a challenge, a way to test myself to see how I get through it, which I think definitely helped um push my um muscle endurance when it came to training and also just my in like dealing with life in general. So it makes a lot makes it a lot more easier now when I'm dealing with a lot of hardship because I just kind of see as a challenge and not nothing other than oh cool, this is just another another um another level in the game where you wanna, if I pass this, then I get to go to the next level. So it's almost as it's going through like different levels of life and just like using that really to get better and better every time.

SPEAKER_00 14:40

Yeah, I think that's a great point you brought up. I think it's like one of the more interesting parts about bodybuilding is just like the mental strengthening that it provides, like the challenges that you face in bodybuilding, I fully believe help you level up in other areas of life. Like hardships that you're experiencing in life, I feel like you can handle better if you have disciplines in like your training and your fitness or bodybuilding, for example, right? Like there's gonna be a lot of discipline, obviously, in training, and and it's taken to higher levels when you get into like the bodybuilding stuff. And when you talk about like trying to get stage lean, like that that mentally is like that's a taxing thing, and it would be easy to roll over and quit, right? But like I think the the mental resilience that you build from bodybuilding can help level you up in so many other areas of life and help you just become more resilient to things of life that was at you.

SPEAKER_01 15:31

Yeah, definitely, definitely agree.

SPEAKER_00 15:34

So, in in regards to the bodybuilding, obviously, your skill with the posing, and I know you've you've recently gotten, or I don't know how long you've been doing it, but you do a posing, you have a posing coaching business that you also run on top of your full-time job as a firefighter and your bodybuilding career, right?

SPEAKER_01 15:51

Yeah, so um I run the posing society, which is like it's been it's been kind of going since last year, I think like since the start of last year. Um and it's quite fun, like it wasn't something that I planned to do at all. Um it was a case of my gym owner back then, what he was not even being pro judge. Um so every time I was kind of getting ready the first show, I kind of like, hey, do you mind having a look at me? See, give me any points as well to fix. And then he kind of like saw me pose and kind of what like sort like basically put me through rounds and stuff like that. And then he kind of suggested maybe you should look into doing this as well on the side because you thought you're pretty good at it, and I can see you have a bright future in it. So I was like, oh, okay, that's quite interesting because my my main interest that got me into posing was just seeing Rob Diesel on stage um at Olympia, for example. And then I remember seeing this routine uh from back in 2021, 2022, I believe. And I just remember seeing that routine, and I was like, So that's what you're like you can do. I uh because I didn't know what he was allowed to do. So I kind of saw that and it kind of drove drew my because I love I love performing, I love being on stage and like and all the aspects. So I think seeing him on stage do that kind of made me really open my eyes to what possibilities were there when it comes to posing. So I then started posing society, it was kind of very low-key last year because I had like a long season, so I was pretty much helping people around the gym, a lot um anyone that kind of seen me on stage before and liked and liked the way I posed, and would just reach out to me and be like, hey, do you mind giving me helping out with posing and stuff like that? So I did like a few months of just uh just doing doing for the sake of doing it, not even getting paid for it or anything like that. And the more I did it, the more, the more I fell in love with posing, um, which then led up led to me starting the posing society, uh, and and now run quite a large amount of clients um that I'm I'm seeing at the moment, especially for this year. Um to the I've now got two pro athletes on the calendar, uh, with one of them competing at the Olympia this year, so which is gonna which is pretty cool. Um, we actually worked on her routine a lot yesterday. So I'm excited for to do have my first ever um Olympia debut routine. Um, so yeah, I've got like a I've had a very successful year in that I spent as a clients I worked with. I've had I'm taking a year off anyway, so um because of the surgery and stuff like that. So it's nice to be able to like give like be part of the whole scene and still work with clients who are competing this year and kind of live a little bit a little bit through them, um, which is quite fun.

SPEAKER_00 18:42

Yeah, I think the I think that's the best part about being involved as a coach or like posing coach or like a prep coach. It's like you still get to be in on the action without having to without having to dial. You can still feel good um and still get involved in the body light. So it's kind of like the best of both worlds. Like you're still in the scene, you're in the environment, you get to feel the excitement that the athlete's feeling, and you get to get it.

SPEAKER_01 19:03

Yeah, it doesn't it doesn't get any less nervous nerve wracking, by the way. Like if you're a coach or not, it's still just less nervous.

SPEAKER_00 19:10

I get more nervous from my clients than I do my own. So I think 100%. You get like the stage, you're you're just you're tired, ready to compete, but also ready to eat, right? So like you're you're just kind of like it is what it is. Like I've I've done the best I can. Like the results will kind of lay where they are. But when you're when you're like in control of trying to help somebody else achieve something, you're like, Whew, stress is a lot of stress. I hope I didn't screw it up.

SPEAKER_01 19:40

Yeah, literally, it's like it just feels like letting go of your letting your kids out into the world and like just thinking, oh, they're gonna fend for themselves now. I can't do nothing for them anymore. This is all in your hands now. But at the same time, you just like I've done enough, I've done what everyone is to do for them. So yeah, it's exciting, but the nerves never leave you, mate. It gets it gets worse.

SPEAKER_00 20:00

No, no, it's great though. It's such a it's such a cool experience to be able to be a part of somebody else's journey. It's like you like it's so rewarding seeing somebody get to experience, especially like a first-time competitor, getting to see them experience like the fruition of all the hard work coming together. And and it kind of brings you back to like your first time competing. I know it's like for myself, I remember the night before the show felt like Christmas morning, and I was like so excited. And like to see that joy in your athletes, it's it's such a cool, unique thing to experience. I I love it.

SPEAKER_01 20:28

Yeah, I think one thing I've kind of like really developed a love for is not just the power of teaching them to pose, it's almost the power of becoming someone they they trust, and they they like all my clients literally talk to me all the time about any and everything. Like, and I feel like I'm always I can always relate and kind of give them like um advice them on whatever they're going through, um, either that being bodybuilding or outside bodybuilding. So I think kind of building that platform where I have have got people that feel like they can really talk to me about anything they're going through, really it feels rewarding because I kind of I feel like the agony ankle where they can just talk to me about everything and anything, and I kind of guide them through it. So it's pretty rewarding just kind of see that not only are you helping them to go on stage, but you're actually helping them to really manage and kind of get through life, which is nice.

SPEAKER_00 21:21

Yeah, no, I always say like coaches are also like we have to we put on the coaching hat, but we also have to keep the uh the therapist hat in our back pocket, right? Because yeah, we're jackal trades, like we you're somebody's like accountability, but you're also somebody's like person to lean on, especially during prep, right? Like it's yeah, they're going through things, they're gonna talk to you about it. Like you're just naturally gonna develop a relationship with those people because you spend a lot of time talking to them, yeah. And they're like obviously trusting you with a with a big, big, big deal of things going on.

SPEAKER_01 21:50

Yeah, yeah. It's like it's actually crazy. We think about it. I sit back sometimes, I'm like, wow, how did that how am I in this position already? Like to the point where like you think. This actually like to be able to be in a position here where position here where I can like help our people or make them feel that they can trust me with their prep is just crazy to me sometimes. But like, yeah, I guess that's how that would the way it quick the way the quick crumbles, really.

SPEAKER_00 22:17

Yeah, no, I mean when you start something like bodybuilding, like I think your first time doing it, you're just like, I'm just trying to get through and see if I can handle it. And then it's like snowballs, right? Like you gain experience, you get skin in the game with competing and dieting and training, and then like you're just able to eventually build up enough skill and knowledge that you can share that to the next person, and there's always somebody that's looking to be where you are at and get to the next point, and it's easier and fun to be able to help bridge the gap of that process for people. So, what is um with with how do you operate your your posing society? Um, I imagine a lot of it you do virtually kind of in a setting similar to this.

SPEAKER_01 22:57

Yeah, so a lot of time people reach out online and we do if they're close enough or like they're willing to travel to me. I've got like a studio setup in my house, so they'll come here and we just pose here. Um, just gotta we've got to pair light in, we've got to pair a backdrop. It pretty much they set up like to look like a stage. So when they come on, they they are basically running the same way that they will trade it on stage, so they kind of get through the experiences. Uh, almost like what to the point where once they get the mandatories right and they get their routines right, I will set up the scenario where I will I will throw things at them, which I've been through on stage, and then what and it can be very kind of like, oh, I didn't expect that to happen. So I kind of will create a scenario. Oh, what if this happens, how are you gonna handle this often, kind of change the pressure a little bit just to teach them and kind of prepare them for the worst so that they know how to handle them stage themselves on stage. Um, they will usually I reach out to me on it uh via my Instagram or like my personal Instagram, or they'll reach out to me via this the Post Society's Instagram, and then yeah, we we will set up a date that's just the both of us, and then we'll take it from there, really.

SPEAKER_00 24:03

That's really cool that you do like hypothetical scenarios with people so that when they get on stage. It's if the circumstances aren't exactly how they practice, they're able to kind of pivot and adjust to the conditions, right? Like sometimes things happen like venue changes or lighting's not great, or or whatever the situation might be. And there's all those nerves and pressure behind behind the scenes before you get on stage. So it's like I think if you can if you can make the posing that you guys do together more challenging and make them more scenarios that pop up, that's a great way to look at it. What are the biggest things that you like? What are the biggest mistakes you see when you're watching somebody on stage and you haven't worked with what are the most common mistakes you see people make with posing in regards to like stage presence?

SPEAKER_01 24:45

I think one um one major thing I noticed a lot is people overtense in and kind of like misunderstanding the the term relaxed posing rock pose to like actual muscular round. I think people get them, they think, Oh, I've got to pose, I've got to squeeze everything, like even the from relax pose, they've got squeeze and tense over tense. And I think that takes away a lot of the look. Um, so I think that's one one major thing that a lot of people mistake make people make. And the clues are always in the name when it comes to posing. Like, for example, if you say you hear the judges say a from relax, it's a from relax. It doesn't mean you too tense or anything like that. It's a symmetry round. If you understand the difference between what a symmetry round and a masculine round is, then you you'll be in a very, very good spot. And that's one thing I make sure all that the clients I work with always understand and they know the difference. Just be attentive and listen to what the judges are saying and just go by the code. Because if a judge says to you a site like a side chest, and you go ahead and try to display pretty much every single muscle in your body, it just doesn't work. It's you just they're just giving the clue, it's a side chest. Show them the side chest, show them the side leg details, and that's all you need to show them. End of the day, you don't need to overcomplicate anything, just make everything as simple as possible, and they'll work for you. Um, another thing that I noticed a lot as well is when it comes to posing routines, a lot of a lot of people put so much emphasis on their posing routine that they forget that they're actually getting judged on the symmetry rounds and the mandatory rounds rather than the actual posing. So you want to, if you want to win a show, make their posing round, that your symmetry round and your mandatory rounds your priority. If you can nail that, the posing routine is just a bonus thing they can focus on. But the show start won't in the mandatory and a couple to turn one and symmetry round. So make that your priority, get your fitness up doing that, and you'll be you'll be flying. Because sometimes you can be on stage for two minutes, sometimes you can be on stage for 15 minutes. So get your fitness up for that with that, and you'll be in the flying spot uh with with um the opposing rounds. One another thing I also noticed as well, is like I said, is people leave it way too late to start working on the opposing. And they go on stage and the thing sees they straight away the first round is sweating already, and they can't hold on poses for long enough for the judges to make the decision, then they just lose the shot. So never ever leave your posing until last minute to work on it. Like, I've had people reach out to me like literally a week before their shows, and they're like, Hey, I need some posing where blah blah and then straight. I'm like, you've got a whole week left before your show, and you haven't done any actual posing thrilling and stuff like that, and you can always see the difference as soon as you go on stage, they they just start to to break straight away, and you think it's yeah, I think that's uh something that people massively overlook with with bodybuilding preps is is the posing side of things and how much how much of a workout posing actually is.

SPEAKER_00 27:56

Like when they do like the first posing session with a coach, they come out of the posing room and they're just like drenched in sweat, and muscles are easy. Yeah, I don't think people really understand because people like you that are make it look easy on stage because you put a lot of time into it and something you're passionate about. Like you make it look effortless, but it's really not. You're contracting and holding muscles on stage under these lights, like you're tired, depleted. Like, there's so many things that go into it. You're just just overly fatigued, and it's like to be able to hold these on stage for however long the head judge decides to keep you up in this position is like it's so important. You can always tell who's put in the time. I think the biggest issue with that is so many people, you're like, like you said, wait to the last minute to start practicing their posing, but like if you start practicing posing at the back end of your prep when calories alone, you've got like prep brain fatigue going, it's so much harder to learn. Yeah, yeah. I always say it's it's a good thing to keep a moderate amount of posing throughout the year, and then when you get into prep, just like taper it up because if it's something you try to hold off on until those last few weeks, like it's it's so hard to redevelop the skill because you're just so tired. Like it's it's already a slog fest just to like get your workouts and cardio done, and then you have to like relearn how to hold poses when you're already tired and just like drain it. It's it's a tough thing, but so many people make that same mistake. I'm sure you see that quite a bit.

SPEAKER_01 29:12

Yeah, I see that we see that a lot in pretty much every show where there's always at least one guy in the lineup who has left at the last minute, and they just think if only like people can have great physiques, and then they just don't give enough time to display the physique well on stage. Like, I've don't think I've ever been the biggest guy in my lineup in a single lineup that in my bodybuilding career, and if you can learn to display your physique properly, you would always like be able to you based hold your hold your own no matter how big the person is to you is. So put a lot of emphasis on your on your posing and get the work in earlier than last minute because if you leave last minute, then I can guarantee you're gonna struggle on stage.

SPEAKER_00 29:58

Yeah, yeah, it is it is like it's such an important part of the whole process. Like you like you you nailed it when you said like there's sometimes somebody might have a better physique on stage, but if they can't show it, it doesn't matter, right? Like the presentation is I mean, it's everything. Like you can have all the muscle in the world, but if you can't showcase it, you're not gonna look nearly to your full potential, and the judges notice that stuff, right? So it's such an important like what you guys are doing, what you're doing with the posing society, it's it's such a such a valuable tool because posing is truly like an art form, and people don't know that when they first get into the sport. It's yeah, it's just as important as your training in your diet.

SPEAKER_01 30:34

100%. I think like one thing we really emphasize. So there's not just me that run run it right at the moment. I've got us another coach called Amen who runs over me, and he's kind of focusing mainly on the men's physique guys um online. He's based in in Thailand, so he does most of his clients that are based in the UK or online, and obviously clients that are based in in Thailand in person. Um, so it's the two of us that are running it. Um, but like our main our main goal is just to bring the art of posing back and kind of bring them. We just want to make sure that once every every athlete step on stage, it's not just a posing round, it's a it's almost like a story that they're telling. We feel like we believe in like um that you should people be able to sit there once you perform and just be able to remember that performance just because of how well you show a lot, you show heart and how much you give into it, um, which is something we feel like is it's almost like missing from a lot of people on stage, and we want to kind of really help bring that back.

SPEAKER_00 31:37

Yeah, no, I think like truly good posing, like like a posing um presentation and like with a good song and like good aesthetics to it, is like it is like something that people really remember from a show, especially like if it's a family member coming out to watch. They might not remember a lot about the symmetry rounds and stuff like that. But if there's like a cool catchy song and the person's very flowy with the routine, it looks smooth, like that's something that always like sticks out in your mind. You're like, Oh, that guy did this really awesome routine on stage. Yeah, like it was very like aesthetic and and pleasing, right? Like that that does stick out in people's minds, like it does kind of give you like a little bit of separation, and it's always cool to see the pictures of it too and the videos, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 32:14

100% always fun to watch and stuff. Like, I think like if you can leave that lasting memory in someone, like for example, um coming back from Worlds and just seeing, or even like when I did my OCB show, just seeing the amount of people that kind of reached out to me after that talking about how they really felt the routine and how they really enjoyed the routine, it's it's rewarding, it's actually more rewarding than the placement because it makes you feel like wow, you did you less the lasting memory in someone's mind, which is gonna stick with them forever.

SPEAKER_00 32:47

Yeah, you put quite a bit of time into a routine too. So it's like to see that feedback from people gotta be very gratifying that when all the work you put in is like it's stuck to somebody, right? So transitioning back out of posing and talking a little bit more about off-season and training. Um, so you mentioned at before we started the podcast, I think you briefly touched on at the beginning of the episode. Um, so you recently had uh a knee surgery as well, right? That you're kind of navigating the recovery process of that right now. What's that look like?

SPEAKER_01 33:19

So um I think it's it's actually kind of a bit of a blessing in disguise, I like to see. And I like to see things from a silver line all the time. So I'll take any bad um situation and just find out what is this moment trying to teach me. And for me, I feel like one area that I really could develop was my top line, my upper body compared to my legs, because my legs have my legs are pretty pretty like uh well developed um in comparison to my upper body. Um, so I think in a way it's that it was a blessing in disguise. So it means that I can focus more now on my upper body to catch up with my legs. Um I am still at the moment I'm kind of in the rehab stage. I've I haven't really trained legs at all for the last six, seven weeks. Um, it's just been like kind of rehab work, um, kind of just get gain mobility back into the leg. Trying to hold on to I must like rebuild the tissue because obviously after surgery, that the leg that was operated on is like you lose so much size to it. So I wanted to catch up with the catch up first before I start pushing legs again. Um, but my training right now has just been mainly upper body focused with like one session in the week where I I work on rehab on on the leg to really catch up. Um so I'm doing currently doing like uh uh uh a push pull leg rehab, then uh rest, then push pull again, then rest, and then restart. So that's pretty much what I'm doing at the moment. And it's it's pretty it's paying off really well because I feel like my upper body is finally catching up now, which is nice to see.

SPEAKER_00 34:57

Yeah, that'll pay definitely the next time you do decide to compete again. But I like the point you made about kind of the silver lining thing because I think I think having like a silver lining glass have full mindset with bodybuilding is so important because if you are in a situation where like you're unfortunately have to go through an injury situation like you are now, it's it's so easy for people to just throw in the towel and get very discouraged because you can't train the way you want to. And if you're in bodybuilding, you love to train, so like that can be a hit to the ego and the mental if if if you're not able to perform the gym like you want to, and just see some potential muscle atrophy in your physique kind of diminish a little bit. That can that can be really hard on somebody mentally, if especially if like with the gym being such a big hour for people, um, I think navigating injuries is it's it's gotta be tough. So, like, if you could give advice to somebody going through a similar situation, like you were not able to train, like what would that advice be?

SPEAKER_01 35:50

Um I think my advice would be just be patient, be patient with it all. Um, like if you love training, it's I'm not gonna lie to you, the first week or so was tough just because I felt like you kind of almost like kind of move and you you just feel like you've all the work you've done has just gone down the drain. But just be patient, man, and stick with a plan. Whatever you're supposed to do, whatever you're meant to be, you're meant to be that the same uh exactly where you're meant to be, and you're on track to where you need to be. Take the time off if you need to, be patient, and just keep on ticking the boxes, and you'll get back on your feet.

SPEAKER_00 36:29

Yeah, that's great advice. I think I think that's a part of like a lot of it's social media driven, but it's so hard for people to be patient nowadays because you're always seeing of all the like success that people are going through, but you're not seeing all the things going on behind the scenes, like they may have experienced some hardships that they're just not talking about, or maybe they've been in a situation like you're in and they've overcome it, they just maybe didn't post about it. But like there's always gonna be adversity in your bodybuilding journey and learning how to navigate. And I think anything, yeah. I think an injury is a uh it's a great lesson tool, right? Like, you're gonna learn more from the adversity of something like this, and you like things are always going smoothly, right? You always have that's gonna be your expectation, but like things like this can be a great teaching tool for you.

SPEAKER_01 37:13

Yeah, I think uh the issue is we're now living an era where like social media is like a huge, huge part of our lives, and everyone some a lot of people seem to forget like social media is just a highlight of people's life, the best part of their life. People post no one, a lot of people don't post about like the hardship that this goes through on Instagram, and if you do post about stuff like that, it's almost in that oh okay, your attention seeking all that stuff. Um, so I think people a lot of people tend to avoid doing that. Um, but I think we just need to realize that it's just a highlight of someone's life, and it's not what no one is like no one on Instagram or like social media is living that it's gonna is constantly happy like that. Like what is what you see on the social media, it's never like that, it's not real life. Um, so stay stay calm, stay relaxed, and just do that do, and you will get back to where you need to be.

SPEAKER_00 38:04

Yeah, that's a really interesting point. I think so many people look on what they're seeing online with like their favorite influencers or their favorite bodybuilders, right? And they see like the highlights and they think that that's somebody's like every day, but it's like you don't really know what's going on behind the scenes of somebody's personal life, and the grass isn't always greater, but I I do think social media paints this picture that like it's all sunshine and rainbows, but like we're only seeing the highlights of what somebody wants you to see, right? Yeah, I think I think that's that puts a lot of pressure, I think, on like younger bodybuilders and people getting into like the fitness industry is like the pressure to constantly be posting and and looking a certain way. So as an athlete and a coach, like how would how do you feel like you manage that side of things with like the pressure of like content creation and marketing yourself and looking a certain way? Like, do you feel like that's that's affected you at all, or do you feel like you manage that pretty well? And how what do you how do you how do you combat all that?

SPEAKER_01 38:55

I think I've managed I manage it pretty well, but at the same time, uh there's been points where like it's daunting. I think the the better you get a bodybuilding, the more it becomes like very there's the pressure to remember your it's like almost the higher you climb, the the more pressure that builds out for you as an athlete who think, oh, this is what it expects of you now. So you can't almost like cannot fall now. Um, and I think the best way for me to handle it now, I think a lot of people, especially the young generation that coming up, are doing it wrong, is a lot of people now document the entire prep on social media. I'm like seven days out, I'm I'm seven weeks out, I'm seven and a half weeks out, I'm this and that that many days out. And for me, I find that really draws attention to you, which is I guess they want to get attention, but then it kind of defeats the whole purpose of what bodybuilding is truly is. Um, it makes it more kind of like you're looking for people for likes and social media outreach rather than doing for you to develop yourself as an individual. So, one way I deal with that situation is when I'm in prep, I'd never really post anything that the people that only know about me competing will be my training partners um and my coach. I will never let anyone I never post anything on social media when I'm about to compete or what shots I'm doing, I'll just turn up on a day. And then usually it's not until after the show is finished when the Federation posts about the results. That's when people find out, oh, you competed, blah blah. And I think if you can avoid, if you can be in that position where you're doing it and just enjoying the process rather than trying to document the whole process to the entire world, it takes a lot of pressure off you. Um, because you there's no external um justice where you have to you have to please anyone or you have to do you're doing it for anyone because you're doing it for yourself and yourself only. Um, so what that's one tool I really use to kind of really manage that. Um, and like I said, the other thing is just like I think this happened to me like last week out of nowhere where everything daunted on me and was like, oh my god. I think it was after I had I went to watch a show last weekend um because I had a few clients competing there, so I was at a show, and I just remember sitting there watching um the class, the class that I'm gonna be competing in now, and just thinking, be feeling very, very overwhelmed and coming back home and everyone daunting on me thinking, am I doing enough? Am I am I am I gonna be good enough to be competitive in this that um this level? Uh that can be very daunting. I think a lot of time when you get through moments like that, don't let it dwell you down, just really take it in, cry if you have to, go through the emotions you have to, but just use it to feel yourself and channel it, use that energy to work higher. I think it's great to feel like that because it just means that you're only human and you're staying here, you're staying staying humble, you're staying grounded. And being grounded is one of the things that's always gonna get you to be better. If otherwise, if you you you act like very arrogant and very cocky, then you're gonna always feel like, oh, you can't you can't get better, and everyone can always get better. There's always gonna be someone that's working harder than you. So stay grounded, stay be reluctant and open to learn from others because it will always make you better rather than just being like closed off to just oh, it's my way and my way only. Um, that's never the way to to get better.

SPEAKER_00 42:17

Yeah, dude, that's that was uh great advice there. Uh, one thing that I really kind of resonated with there that you mentioned was the um, I think the pressure around the bodybuilding that social media creates and and managing that, I think it's a whole interesting conversation to have. So many people see the the highlights of a bodybuilding prep online and they think it's all like sunshine and rainbows, but there's but it's a a very grueling process. Um, yeah. I think I think the social media side of things, people see the finished product and they're like, oh, I want that, but they don't know what you're doing to getting to that point and how that's gonna feel and how that's gonna affect your social life and things like that. Like, there's so many layers to that process that people don't really understand because they're just seeing like the highlights online. And I do I like the point you said about kind of keeping it old school where it's like people don't really know you're competing until you get on stage and the results are posted after. I really like that. I something like myself as a competitor and as a coach, I feel the pressure to like make content about my contest prep, but there always there's a lot of times where I'm like, man, it would be awesome to just go into the radar and just and just prep because I like prepping, you know what I mean? Because at the end of the day, like we all got into this for the love of of the sport of bodybuilding. And I think social media has sneakily taken away some of the the joy of that process for people because there's so much pressure in the back of your mind to like market yourself or what you're doing and and show like yourself eating lean because like that's what gets attention online. And and yeah, I think it's human nature to naturally crave some of that attention. Like, we enjoy that like feedback from people that are supporting you, but like it can definitely take away from what bodybuilding is supposed to be, like a self progression. Driven sport where you're working on building yourself, right? Like bodybuilding is it's about building the body, building the mind. Like that's why we got into the sport. And I think social media has done a nasty job of kind of stealing that that joy from people a little bit. But it's it's kind of the nature of the beast now, right? Like the internet's there, it's not going anywhere.

SPEAKER_01 44:17

Yeah, it's not going anywhere, so you have to come and then get along with it.

SPEAKER_00 44:20

Yeah, I think it's one of those things that we're probably I mean, I'm 30. How old are you?

SPEAKER_01 44:25

I'm 38.

SPEAKER_00 44:26

Yeah, so we were we kind of grew up in that last little era where you could, you know, still do things without having to post it all the time. But as we've as the internet's progressed and social media has become more prevalent in the industry, it's definitely not going anywhere, and it's something we have to learn to kind of manage. But I think that's something that a lot of younger competitors could definitely take some advice.

SPEAKER_01 44:45

Yeah, 100%. I think like also the people needs to remember like bodybuilding is great, and it's like a whole new, but it's there's a whole world outside of bodybuilding. So if you get so locked in about bodybuilding, you forget that because you can go and win a show, you can like win multiple shows back to back and be one of the greatest, but you will still walk out into the public the next day, and people will not have a clue about it, you're still just another person to them. So don't let it become your entire identity because there is more to life than just bodybuilding, and bodybuilding is just meant to be something that you just develop yourself, just your personal character and just to grow as an individual.

SPEAKER_00 45:26

Yeah, I love that. I think I think the most enjoyable years I've had since I've been bodybuilding since like 2019. I think some of the most enjoyable stretches of bodybuilding I've had is when when I've done a better job of balancing bodybuilding with life and not like making it my identity. I think when you get too wrapped up and trying to be this like ultra-robotic bodybuilder, it almost takes away from how productive you can be as an athlete, right? Like, I think if you can balance life and fit bodybuilding into it, I think you get a lot more out of it because you just you're sharper, you're you're not as like burnt out on it. I think people try to make it their personality, it can quickly go from being something that it's a lot of fun and and become taxing and a chore, right? Like, I do think you need to have an off-switch and be able to like level with yourself that it's bodybuilding is not directly paying our bills, right? Like it's a it's a hobby, and some of us are definitely fortunate enough to be able to make a career out of it. Um, but it's it's at the end of the day, you got into it for the love of training, the love of the sport.

SPEAKER_01 46:25

Yeah, 100%. 100%.

SPEAKER_00 46:29

Yeah, that's great. That's I mean, that could be a whole like I feel like the social media side of bodybuilding could be like a whole hour long time. Yeah, it could be there's so many layers to that part. Um, yeah. I had a another question I wanted to get with you on. So if you were starting from scratch with your bodybuilding journey, so let's say let's I don't know, let's go back like eight years and you're just looking at getting into bodybuilding for the first time. So this would be a great question for first-time competitors. Like, how would you do things differently versus how you did them? Like when you started your journey, like what would you change from then to now? Like, how would you approach things differently if you were starting from scratch as a bodybuilder?

SPEAKER_01 47:07

I think um understanding the importance of nutrition would be will play a very, very huge role. Um, I think I was one of those people that I was very, very curious. Like, I think, well, when I first started, I was like, my coach would be like, what's be like, oh, this is your meal, blah blah blah, this is what you're eating, this way I only eat at this time, that time, and I just kind of run with it and just did what exactly what I was told. And I didn't really use my first year to understand and ask questions to learn from that. Um, if you're going into bodybuilding as a newbie, um, one thing you can benefit off is really, really understanding the nutrition side of things and training and your training and all of that stuff. So if your coach asks you to do this or eat that, always ask the question, why? Every good coach should be able to tell you and explain to you the reason why. And as if as an athlete, if you're if you always know your whys and oh the reason why you're doing it, it will always make you you'll kind of be able to a bit more commit to that what you're doing a lot more. So if you don't know the reason why you're doing it, it's almost like you're just doing it because you've been told to do it. But if someone to ask you why you're doing it though, like and you cannot answer to them, uh and you're only answer to them. So I don't know, my coach told me to do it, then you're not giving yourself an opportunity to learn. So be vocal, ask questions, always understand, ask the what the reason why you're doing something, because you you're gonna learn a lot more that you can then give back to the to anyone that you get to work with later on in life, or like your friends and family, um, which I think would play a big part. I think that if I knew one thing I would therefore wish I knew better was would have been nutrition, because I think I've learned so much the last three years in nutrition and exercise programming and like to kind of really bring out your lacking parts. If I knew all of that a lot earlier, it would have made my journey a lot better at a start than it like a lot a lot better and at the start, in my opinion.

SPEAKER_00 49:03

Yeah, no, that's great. I I really agree with that too. I think the I mean coaches love teaching, right? Like, I think a coach, a coach's ideal client is somebody that's a sponge, that asks questions, that sends training videos, that checks in on time, that wants to know the whys of why they're doing things. Like, that's why we get into coaching, right? Like, we like helping people, and that makes our job more rewarding, makes us feel like we're really like providing value to somebody. So, like, my favorite clients are people that are sending the videos, asking the question, being on time with check-ins. Like that stuff's all so important. And I think those are the areas that really can help you skip a lot, not not skip a lot of steps, but get where you want to be faster by just fully committing to the process, checking the boxes, and doing all the day-to-day things that long term you're gonna get where you want to be. Like, it's a it's not an overnight process, like bodybuilding takes years, but you can get there a lot faster if you're consistent from the jump. And I think like I can I can definitely test myself when I got into it. Same way I didn't necessarily um off the bat start like wasn't dialed in with like the diet side of things, wasn't it's in tune with my nutrition. And it's like, yeah, I was training hard, but I wasn't doing all the other things, the recovery, the eating, um, and things of that nature to really like benefit what I was doing in the gym. I I would say like the the best way to kind of get jump started is to just invest in some sort of like education or mentor, coach, and and learn, ask, and and implement and take action on those things.

SPEAKER_01 50:26

Yeah, 100%. 100%. I think that's like I remember my first prep, there was uh moment of even the push-up part, like having to handle push out is was one of the toughest things I've ever had to go through because I didn't understand it. Because I just oh I just found my show and I can eat whatever I want. And the way that um my body responded to just eating whatever I want was probably the worst decisions I've made. And if I'd known better, I'd have wish I handled that, I would have handled that a lot lot differently. I just remember one time just coming home and just like literally grabbing a whole tub of like peanut butter and just like eating it with no clue of what could percussion that comes with it. Um, and I think just knowing all the benefits of all that stuff is really gonna help you, shape you from the first from the get-go.

SPEAKER_00 51:10

Yeah, the reverse diet is such an important part of the process, and I I swear it's the hardest part of prep. Like, I think I think when you have a deadline, yeah, you're gonna be in your underwear on stage, like it's like, all right, I'm not cheating on my diet, but when you get out of it, you there's no constraints on what you can eat. It's so so difficult to maintain like rigidness with that. That's something I think everyone's gonna make mistakes on, no matter how many times you compete, but you get better at it as you as you go through the process. Like, eventually you've done it so many times, you're like, All right, food's still gonna be there tomorrow, like I'll be okay. But like there's that's one of the biggest learning curves for people competing the first time. It's like the food's still gonna be there tomorrow. Like, put the fork down and follow the plan so you can actually like maintain some of the property you made. It's so easy to get a prep and put another 20 pounds on within like 10 days, it's insane.

SPEAKER_01 51:53

Yeah, and I think another thing as well that I wish I knew prior to like stand by the pinna was like hydration. I just remember coming off like a lot I see, and I still see this nowadays where people come off stage and their first priority is like, oh, give me a must, like they go straight to the cookie dealers, the massive um uh muffins like just stuffing. Yeah, and they're not prioritizing the first thing they should be doing, which is hydration. And I wish I knew that. Um, and I that's one thing I always advise people on now. Make sure when you come off stage, your first priority is to get yourself hydrated, and then go back to maybe even if we just stick to your clean your normal food you've been eating, but maybe a little bit like more of it rather than just going ahead and eating, getting the pizza seen and getting all that stuff, because that's probably one of the worst things you can do for your body, um, especially when you've kept it, you've kept your body so clean in terms of diet, and all of a sudden you're just gonna chuck all of this in. Um, so yeah, hydrate, get some clean food in first, and then you've got a couple of days to then really, really settle in, and then you can start enjoying a bit more extra food here and there, but don't stuff your face. I'm so sick of seeing the whole this is what a post show, and it's like a batch of cookies and all of these. Oh, it's getting so crazy.

SPEAKER_00 53:11

Like inventory thing to do. Like, we've all done it, but it's like it's once you've done it, you're like you're like the old person in the room, you're like, what are these rookies up to?

SPEAKER_01 53:18

Yeah, literally, literally, it's such a lot everyone's doing nowadays.

SPEAKER_00 53:24

Uh yeah, it's if you've ever done it the wrong way, you you've learned a lesson, you know not to. Yeah, yeah. All right, so I got one more important question.

SPEAKER_02 53:32

Sure.

SPEAKER_00 53:33

World Cup, so we gotta bring it up. You're for Ghana. You're in London. Who are you pulling for on Tuesday? That's an important or Wednesday, Wednesday. Who are you pulling for?

SPEAKER_01 53:41

I mean, I'm gonna represent my home got my home country, Ghana, the whole way through. So I'm rooting for Ghana today. My flat mate's rooting for obviously from for England, so it's gonna be a tough one this evening when we watch it. When Ghana wins, I'm gonna have to like tell him artists, okay. Yeah, maybe maybe better next time, better like next time. Or he might be saying that to me, God knows. But I I hope it goes Ghana winning.

SPEAKER_00 54:03

Yeah, it should be a good game. Don't be uh be mad. I got my I had a no, no, no. He was at uh he was at the training camp the other day. He used to work for a gym equipment company, and they got the contract with uh the soccer team for England. So he was over in Florida helping set up for the team, and he got us some shirts. I was like, all right, I'll I'll wrap it. I'm gonna have my my USA jersey on on Friday against uh Australia. So I have hot make a little noise.

SPEAKER_01 54:30

We'll see. We'll see. It should be good, man. It should be good. Yeah, it should be a fun tournament.

SPEAKER_00 54:34

It's it's it's one of the best sporting events. I'm excited.

SPEAKER_01 54:36

Yeah, it's always like the football always bring the whole world together. It's one, it's like a universal language, everyone understands it, everyone can enjoy it. It's been cool to have I'm not like a massive fan of like league football, but when it comes to the World Cup, I always enjoy the World Cup.

SPEAKER_00 54:51

That's kind of how I am. I'm I'm more into like American football, but like when the World Cup's on, like I'm I'm down in it like that's that's my soccer fan. I'm a soccer fan during that phase. So well, Patrick, this was awesome. I really appreciate your time. Um, super exciting getting to have you on the podcast. We're it's it's an honor, and uh it's been cool following your journey. Um, really excited to continue to see you progress as a bodybuilder and watch your posing society grow. Um, you're definitely passionate about what you do and skilled at it, and and it shows and the amount of people that want to work with you. So uh best of luck to you and um be looking forward to following your journey. So, for anybody that's listening to the podcast, they want to connect with you for posing or just kind of follow you along. What is the the Instagram handles and how they reach you?

SPEAKER_01 55:32

So um the Instagram handle for the posing company is called Dev Posing Society. Um, it's pretty easy to find. Um, you find us straight away. You can always drop us a message there and then we'll get in touch with you straight away. Um, or if you're not reaching to follow my journey, or um you can also reach for my personal account, which is called so it's a funny spelling, so you might need to write it when you worry when you share with everyone, but it's uh underscore original original dash fat with ph dash pat. So original fat pat and you will find me there. Awesome.

SPEAKER_00 56:07

I'll uh I'll collaborate the post with you when we when we post the uh link to the video on on in on Instagram so everybody can give you a follow. Well man, this is awesome. I uh I appreciate it. And uh we'll be seeing you in August in London for the show. You're gonna be a great I will be.

SPEAKER_01 56:22

Yes, I'll be there. I've got quite a few clients company there this year, so I'll be there turning them on, making sure they're already uh with your pose, and hopefully we can walk away with like uh the best uh the best poser day of reward um award. It's gonna be one as long as we're gonna try and keep it home.

SPEAKER_00 56:37

Yeah, but that's gonna be great. That's gonna be great. Well, we'll see you in a few months. I think it's like nine weeks out.

SPEAKER_01 56:41

We'll uh not too long no. What's that? I say it's not too long now, it's come around very quick.

SPEAKER_00 56:49

I know, yeah. It's been this year's been off to a flyer. So well, this was great. Thanks, man. We'll talk soon, okay?

SPEAKER_01 56:54

Thank you so much for having me. Cheers.