Episode #20 The Muscle Doc Jordan Shallow

In this episode we sit down with Jordan Shallow aka "The Muscle Doc" one of the founders of Prescript one of the top coaching education companies in the world. Jordan lives the lifestyle and is truly passionate about his craft. From pro athletes around the world to online education for coaches, to supplements. Jordan has his hands in many different areas of the fitness industry and is making an impact!

Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:01

Hi guys, welcome back to the InLife Coaching Podcast. Today we are joined by the muscle doc Jordan Shallow. Jordan, uh, give us a little brief introduction about kind of what you do, and then we'll kind of run through some conversations.

SPEAKER_01 0:12

Man, a brief introduction of what I do is kind of maybe it's a bit of an oxymoron. Uh, or maybe it's the exact opposite. Maybe it is like super brief. Uh I'm a chiropractor by trade. I I talk about exercise professionally, whether that's like talking at the face of like clients that I work with one-on-one, or whether it's through the education company that I co-founded a decade ago with my business partner called Prescript, or whether it's like doing it live in seminars and workshops and guest lectures, kind of like all over the world at this point now. Crazy. Um, so yeah, I may I just talk about exercise. That's like all I fucking do. I sometimes I do it on the internet, sometimes I do it in real life, sometimes I do it where people are like lifting weights in front of me and they're paying me to tell them how to do it. Um, but yeah, I do like a bunch of different shit, but the core of what I do is I just I just talk about exercise, which I'm assuming we're gonna do today.

SPEAKER_00 1:02

So yeah, a little bit, a little bit, a little bit of everything today. So Jordan, what is your what's your background in in sport and fitness that kind of got you interested in getting into the education space?

SPEAKER_01 1:14

Uh yeah, um, good question. I was I mean I grew up in Canada, in Canada currently. Uh so I grew up on skates, hockey player through and through from the age of four uh to the age of 20, probably until I left for grad school. Check so 2021, something like that. Um, you know, at the age of five, I was like, oh, I want to make it to the NHL. And the age of six, I realized it probably was not gonna be on skates. So like I better find a some smart shit way to fucking get to the NHL somehow. Um yeah, so I mean I played hockey sustained injuries as you would, and it was uh it was actually rehabbing those injuries, seeking out good practitioners at a young age that kind of led me down the road of like chiropractic college, which then when I kind of hung up the skates and moved to California to go to school, I you know, I was still you know young, competitive, but like didn't have the time to compete in ice hockey anymore and always trained to just get better at sport. And then I was like, oh, you can just like compete in training. That's fucking weird. Uh so I got into powerlifting almost like haphazardly, like uh just had a patient who just happened to be a multi-world record holder in in powerlifting. His name was Dan Green. Uh so I would like treat him, and you know, I got I was pretty strong just as like a hobbyist, just as someone who like on a former athlete. And so I would treat him and he would coach me, and like obviously got like way, way, way stronger. And then yeah, that kind of dovetailed into something of like a powerlifting career uh early post-grad, like in 2015, maybe, is when I kind of started taking it seriously. Um, and then competed as a powerlifter again, kind of like all over, got pretty good pretty quick, had like a decent starting point, was a pretty strong athlete uh uh coming out of sports. So I had a bit of a leg up there, and then that kind of dovetailed into this weird fitness industry. You you people will listen to me because I'm strong, which is like a weird, don't do that. Don't but I almost do the opposite. Like, don't listen to strong people, are usually like not smart. Uh, so I would like travel to compete. Like, I competed at the Arnolds in Australia a few times. I did like the US Open. It was like the some of the bigger meets of the time, like in the powerlifting circuit. Um, and when I would get invited out, like not that there's a ton of money in it now, but there's even less in it then. But like the the exchange was oh, like we see you talk about smart shit on the internet, we can't pay you, but we can offer up space for you to do seminars. My seminar, what the fuck is what the fuck's a seminar? What am I gonna talk about? And that kind of like kickstarted it all. I was like, okay, I could pay for my flights to Australia to go compete at the Arnolds by doing these seminars at these gyms for free. And they would like, you know, the gym owner was also like the promoter of the of the competition. So I just did that. I was like, all right, I guess I'll talk for three hours about something. And then now at the thought of three, I can't, I don't even think I can talk about like the execution of a single exercise in three hours now. But back then it was like, holy fuck, how am I gonna talk for three hours about shit? Um, so yeah, they one thing kind of led to the other, and then through the power of social media and podcasting and Instagram and YouTube and all that, it kind of just it kind of just evolved into whatever the fuck it is now, which is like just more of the same, but a little bit, you know, a few more people listen to it now than they did 10 years ago. So yeah, that that's kind of like how it evolved. Like athlete went away to school, competed in powerlifting. That kind of got me a little bit of like cachet in the fitness industry, sort of writing for publications, writing for my own website, started prescript with my business partner, and then just like kind of steamrolled one into the next, into the next.

SPEAKER_02 4:56

That brings up uh that brings up prescript, and um, we just wanted to ask questions about how like what was the the main driver, was that the main driver for the prescript and the the so much growth in the brand now? Like, what really drove you to bring prescript to the fitness industry and how like what led you to so much growth? How did that grow so organically as it is today?

SPEAKER_01 5:23

Uh poverty mostly, mostly poverty, mostly being like it's it's unfathomably poor. No, uh so Jordan, my business partner, Junta, him and I went to Cairo school together. And like, I don't know, man. Like, we thought school was for the lames, and we still kind of think that. So, like, he was a wrestler, I was a hockey player. We both got too busy with school to like really pursue what we enjoy doing through college. So, but we both obviously wrestling's a physical sport, and I took weightlifting pretty seriously as a as an ice hockey player. Like, I don't know, I was probably the heaviest kid in the league, especially as like I was a goalie on ice, and I was I don't know, I played at 245, 250. Like, I would have been the biggest player in the entire league as a goalie. Um, so we we just like get it when everyone was just doing like nerdy shit, we would just go to the gym, like like studying and shit. That we would just go train, and he became he kind of branched off into the CrossFit space, just as like, hey, I like to train, I like to compete. What can I do? And he was had a like a good Olympic lifting background, so we kind of went into that. I was pretty strong for someone who wasn't a competitive powerlifter already, so I just kind of went into that. And him and I, you know, we just stayed in touch after school, and he opened his practice and his CrossFit gym. I opened my practice in my uh powerlifting gym, or where we both competed out of. And you know, we would start to get patients that were like unique. Although we were early out of school and like relatively green, we were both pretty experienced in like exercise programming and biomechanics just from our own self-interest and our own personal training careers prior to getting into chiropractic college. So, like we kind of quickly made a name for ourselves in the Bay Area, which mind you, like 2015 San Francisco Bay Area, like CrossFit and powerlifting were kind of fucking huge, like probably the biggest they've ever been in the place where they were the biggest, right? Like CrossFit Heyday, you'd go down the street and it'd be Jason Khalifa owned about 20 gyms at the time called NorCal CrossFit, now NC Fit. I mean, Dan Green and Mark Bell and these like big YouTube powerlifting names that were just putting up absolutely insane numbers and like the emergence of like raw powerlifting in social media, where like you had powerlifters now that were just fucking jacked out of their minds and not just a bunch of fat guys in multiply suits. So it was just like a really crazy time in both of the sports, and him and I just sort of like carved out little markets of like you know, if you were squatting 700 plus and your knee hurt, you kind of needed someone who was like also squatting 700 plus to figure out what the fuck to do with you, right? Like you go just down the street to some, you know, and not to be disparaging, but like you know, there's a handful of there's a fraction of a percent of a percent of people on the planet who can squat over seven, even less over eight, even less over nine, and you know, could kind of one-hand the guys that are squatting over a thousand. So it's like I had an upper hand in being able to manage cases like that. Junta had an upper hand and being able to manage like high-level gymnasts and crossfitters and Olympic weightlifters. So, like, we just kind of like we assumed that if there was a geographical bottleneck to the people who were super strong around us, that the problems were probably universal and we could probably help people outside of the 50 mile radius of our office or 100 mile radius or however far people would drive. And it's started to get to the point where like people were driving from like really fucking far to come see me or him. And it's like, oh, okay, like if we put this on the internet, we'll probably reach like well, we'll definitely reach more than the people that are willing to drive, you know, the hundred kilometers or 100 miles or whatever it was to come see us. So we actually started off FreeScript as like a an exercise programming, like a rehab exercise programming service for strength athletes. So that's like how it started was you know, we were putting up content that was like not too dissimilar to what we put up now about like biomechanics, but really like our product was if you're a strength athlete, you have shoulder, elbow, knee, low back, you know, you have issues in these regions, and the mom and pop physical therapist or chiropractor down the streets not cutting it, we may have a you know a scalable solution for you. And what ended up happening was just like as the as the business kind of grew slowly, it was just me and him just basically writing programs for people, kind of like a group coaching tandem that shared a brain and an email address. And I what I think at the time was a Facebook group, and so we kept like writing, and then we would get requests for like the athletes that we trained remotely to talk to their physical therapists or talk to their physiotherapists, talk to their Cairo or whoever, because like we were solving problems from a spreadsheet that people who had worked with them for like six months in person three times a week couldn't solve. And they're like, Hey, like, can you gonna call like talk to my so-and-so? Like, he's just like he's very curious how I've been able to take a turn, and you know, I've never actually met you in person. So then it kind of became clear to us that, like, oh, the program isn't the really the thing that's valuable, it's the thought process that drives the programming that's actually like the real value, and and it just so happened too at like as the this convergence of events. I uh I got reached out to by a couple of big gym uh groups worldwide. So Good Life Fitness in Canada and uh a gym called Ultimate Performance, which is like a high-end bespoke uh body transformation personal training gym that was based out of England. Um they had 20 locations worldwide. They had reached out to me, both of them, within months of each other, to start teaching some principles and put together some courses internally for uh for both respective companies, and they had different needs and that. So I kind of did a gap analysis. I as a kid actually worked at Good Life as a personal trainer. It was like one of my first jobs at the fitness industry. It's a it's a it's a chain of gyms here in Canada that at the time probably spanned 300 clubs with about 5,000 trainers. So, you know, here we're doing this like spreadsheet exercise programming, and then I'm moonlighting just a life on the road doing seminars at these gyms in Canada and then these gyms all over the world. So I would go from Halifax, Nova Scotia to Hong Kong and weekends in a row, teach one seminar for good life, one seminar for ultimate performance or UP, and then I would fly back to Mississauga, Ontario, and then I would fly out to London, and I would fly back to British Columbia and fly out to Sydney. And dude, I must have taught every weekend on the road for like damn near four years, a different seminar. But as I was doing it, I had no exclusivity with either of either of the gyms. They were just sort of stoked that they found someone who was willing to just fucking talk to their trainers. And I was stoked that people were willing to pay me so I didn't have to sleep in my car. So it was like a great little gig we had, and you know, quickly we started to shift the core of the business away from programming to like keeping up with these the education demands. And yeah, I was remember it was like September of 2018. It just kind of like hit me. I was just like, well, fuck. Like, I'm doing these courses, I have a bunch of people online reaching out. How do I take them? And my only answer was get a job at one of these gyms. I was like, Well, that's a dumb fucking answer as a business owner. So I was like, okay, like the the course I made for good life or courses by that time and made for good life, were you know, they filled a need in their curriculum, and the one for UP the same. But I'm like, well, if I were to do it, like what do I think as like a practitioner who's like a you know, as a collegiate level strength and conditioning coach, was a chiropractor by trade with like you know, decent amount of experience for how green I was on paper. Um, and then you know, an athlete, and then sort of just a weird mix of all three of these things. Like, where do I think people who work with the human body, like what should be the bare minimum? Because like we're definitely not there, and then I just like this is a time where our back-end infrastructure of our website was a lot less robust than it is now, and I actually knew how to do shit on our website. I don't even know like the logins anymore. Uh someone does, I don't fucking know it. But uh, I just went on our website and I made a product. I was I think it was in Hawaii. I was yeah, I was on the island of Kauai, so it was like the time zones were all fucked up. So all my business partners were asleep, and they woke up the next day, and my business partner messaged me our our COO. She's like, What the fuck is prescript level one? And I'm like, I don't know yet, but I got three weeks to figure it out. So and you know, with power of social media, again, we were able to like, you know, people were interested in what I was doing, and we we got PSL one up and we figured it out, and yeah, we ran our first semester in like September or October of 2018. And then then it just sort of, I don't know, it just sort of evolved from there, and here we are, however many years later. And it's like it's a job for sure, like it's definitely a thing now that I have to take care of every day, which is great. But uh yeah, that's a bit of like the origin of how that came to be.

SPEAKER_02 14:13

I love it. You found a need and just met it. That's awesome.

SPEAKER_00 14:18

So, in in terms of like the business side of things, when you first started um the prescript stuff, did you ever think that it would get to the level it's at now, like the the reach it's gotten?

SPEAKER_01 14:28

No, god no, man. So, like it's funny, and I'm I'm not gonna let no and I think that's the thing. Like, uh I don't I don't want to give advice, but maybe like maybe someone can glean something from this. Like, we're we're still to this day, even knowing what we've know about the trajectory of the company and all the analytics and all the data and all like the smart shit that you know if you're paying it, if you're paying attention, you would surmise that us as a business have access to and make decisions based off of there's still no vision board, right? There's still no ideal. Like something that I always tell people is like, look, when I was when I was 10, I wanted to be Batman. But but when I'm 15, it's like, yo, if you're still that kid that wants to be Batman, like you're way off the mark, dude, right? Like maybe you want to like get a get a degree and like do something with your life, like be some rogue vigilante that's just beating up homeless people. Like there's people in the fitness industry that have needed that advice, but you know, that's neither here nor there. But it's like, you know, I think a lot of people just they they pigeonhole themselves, or maybe a better way to put it is I would have felt pigeonholed and putting something up of the board as an ideal to chase, and it's like, man, you every cell in your body's turned over 10,000 times in 10 years, or whatever the fuck the math is. It's like, why? So it's just like, what do we got to do today? Right? How can we just like make connections, work with cool people, you know, stick to our guns, stick to our values? And like that's really all we and that's all we care about. Still, like, we have a bunch of shit. We can look back on a bunch of things that we've like fucked up or like money we spent, they're just like, but absolutely nowhere. Like, it's fucking hilarious. But I don't know, me and Junta are just like kind of dumb. Like, we're dumb enough to just keep going and just be like, Oh, oh well, that sucked. Well, how much money did we lose? I still got student debt. Okay, all right, what do we gotta do today? So it's like, no, and I I don't want to negate the utility because it all depends on like you know, someone's you know, what's your appetite for risk, what's your relationship with money? Like, there's a lot that goes into giving advice around business. That's why I just shut the fuck up about it and I don't, you know, become a business mentor or anything like that. Uh just because like there's too much, there's too many variables, right? Yeah, but at least from our point of view, it's like, you know, hey, this is what we like, this is what we're passionate about. If all the money goes away tomorrow, we're still just gonna be in the gym training and fucking hanging out with cool people. So I think that's that's what's made it sustainable for us. But yeah, no, no vision, no big plan. Just if I get to do that every day for the rest of my life, I'm fucking I'm good.

SPEAKER_02 17:00

I love that a lot. It doesn't matter, and that is a big, I think that's huge. Like it does have to do with your relationship to the money and the relationship to risk. I think that's massive. It's like, what are you willing to put on the table? And that's what you're willing to get out of it.

SPEAKER_00 17:15

Yeah, I think at the end of the day, if if you're passionate, you just keep showing up for what you like doing, like it all kind of sorts itself out. But that does kind of translate well into the next question that I had for you. And it is a little bit of business advice. Um, like what type of like where do you see like trainers and and clinicians and people in the in the industry like making the biggest like business mistakes when it comes to like trying to navigate like a quote unquote saturated industry?

SPEAKER_02 17:38

Or honestly, do you think there are mistakes or is or is there anything such things like I feel like you think there would be no mistakes and good job and keep rolling?

SPEAKER_01 17:48

Yeah, I mean the mistake is relative to what you want to get out of it. So I I think the biggest mistake is not understanding the lifestyle that you want. That's the biggest mistake, right? Because I get, and this isn't one of those, I get questions all the time. This is legitimately questions I get all the time. Like, I'm not like made my blowing smoke up your ass. I'm not like, oh, there's three more spots left for coaching. It's like motherfucker, there's infinite spots left for coaching. Shut the fuck up. But it's like a question I will get asked, and I get asked by people who run businesses at similar scales, and sometimes maybe even at quite maybe slightly larger scales than ours. I'm thinking about a particular text message I got a few weeks ago. And then someone was like seeking advice. It's like, you have to understand something. I'm not married, I have no kids, I'm 36 years old, I have minimal commitments. I'm like goddamn Ben Affleck and the accountant. If I need to pack this bitch up in seven and a half minutes, I'm in an airstream and I'm gone. Do you know what kind of superpower that is to be a business owner in this space? Like, and again, what type of lifestyle do you want? There's look, there's long days. I've done, I don't know, a hundred plus thousand kilometers in the air this year. I've been to however many kinds of 80 something countries a lot, and yeah, there's flight delays, and there's this and there's that, and there's there's months on end where you're like, you don't sleep at wherever home is. And it's a again, I I love for it. I the hair on the back of my neck stands up, just thinking about it. I man, I would take an airport delay over having to mow my fucking lawn any day of the week, right? But it's like I had these conversations with people, and it's like, look, man, it's not a sacrifice. I don't like that verbiage. It's it's it's a it's a prerequisite. In my opinion, like having the this freedom of time and place is a prerequisite, or at least it has been for me, to grow and scale the company the way I've wanted it to, at the speed I've wanted to, with the people I've wanted to, with the with the messaging and the brand that I've wanted to. But it's like, you know, if you hit me with the oh, I got I gotta take my kids, like, okay, dude, then go and I don't know what that feeling is of like looking at your kid and the whatever the I frankly, it just that doesn't even hit the sides. My brain, I got niece and nephew, and I go, okay, that's fun. See you later, see you next year. When you're 14, I'll be your cool uncle. But until then, like it just doesn't even nothing like like ice, and not even, I just I like my job and that's fun. But I'll talk to people and like, man, like you know, we're thinking of doing in-person events and dot that. I was like, okay, you have three dogs, two kids, and a bird and a wife. Do you want all of those still? Like, well, then I'm like, well, like fuck, dude, where is it coming from? You know, so and it, you know, there's a there's a quote that I love, and it's it's it's scale your lifestyle or scale your income to your lifestyle, don't scale your lifestyle to your income. And like I've been a firm believer of that. Like, there's a great book called Profit First, that it just it you removes the martyrdom from business ownership. It's like these people are sitting here like they're coming off the U-boat in Normandy. It's like, dog, I talk on the internet, relax, it ain't that heavy, bro. Like, but at the same time, you have to understand like the lifestyle that I enjoy. I enjoy, oh what? Uh where are we going? Yeah, hold on, I'll be right there. We're gone. Like, I love it. I am I don't know the moment's notice last year, picked up my entire life and moved to California on a client. The client hit me up, gave me an offer I couldn't refuse. Super rich guy, can't say much more than that, or have me killed. And dude, I'm talking within a day, my shit's packed up, and I'm fucking my my my truck's on a truck and I'm flying to San Francisco. I'm on Zillow, like, oh, it's I think that's the ghetto. I'll get a knife. I'm fine. Okay, I get a new place. Hey, is this still available? Yeah, it's a ghetto, it's still available. Okay, cool. I'll be right there. Messaging my old landlord, like, hey, I'm leaving. So, you know, whatever. But it's again, it's something where people can kind of get sucked into the funnels and the content and the posting schedule and the copywriting and the brand, and everyone's got to create a culture and say the word culture enough and it'll happen, or like community. Just say the word community, and people will like us. It's like, okay. Yeah, sure, maybe. But like you got to take a step back and you got to say, what time do you want to wake up in the morning? What city do you want to be when you wake up? Do you want to know where your light switch is when you wake up to take a piss? The number of times I've almost pissed in the closet of a hotel room because the one I was in the night before was oriented the other way, right? You walk in the bathrooms on the left to fucking, you know, but then the next day it's like, oh, it's like Bizarro World. That's on the right. And so I'm like, I'm just like three in the morning. I'm like, I think I'm pissing at the closet. But do you want? But it's not like it's I I mean, yeah, being not, I mean, I like the I'm not being as hyperbolic as you think, but man, the mind-numbing conversations I've had with people who are who start off by saying, I want to do what you do. And I'm like, okay, let's talk about what I do. Let's talk about what I do outside of the posts and the podcasts and the seminars and the likes and the YouTube and the let's talk about what I do. What does your day start? How does it start? I ignore everything, everything. And it's and look, the people in my life get it, they get it. And they're just like, I've missed weddings. One of my best friends is our, and he's gonna fucking kill me for bringing this up. But one of my best friends on this planet is our media director. You know, his wedding was on my birthday. What a special day! Guess where I was? I was on tour with a professional tennis player that had just hired me to work with him four days before. And he knows, he knows, he's like, Yeah, dude, you're my retarded best friend. And that's what you're gonna, that's what you're gonna do 100% of the time. Some top 10 tennis players hits you up. I'm in a job interview for four days in Sydney, and I'm flying through Toronto to go to Stuttgart or whatever the fuck on his wedding day. And it's just like, yeah, but it's like that's the conversation we have to have if you want to do you have to be available. Like the best Jorge De Hoyos, who works with us, he's he runs L1 and L2 with me and L3, like hey fuck, Jorge runs everything. He's like, dude, the best of it, the best ability is availability, and I'm like, dude, yes, that that's the superpower. That is but people don't want to have that conversation.

SPEAKER_02 24:05

No, I I love the realistic approach. I I am very much in that scope because I'm the one on that side of things where I have four kids. I my day looks good, my day looks completely different than what yours does. And it is, I understand completely realistically, like I'm not going to get to a certain point, and I'm not willing to sacrifice that. And that's where you yeah, exactly. I do that, and I love where I'm at. I'm scaling my business to fit what I like to do, and that's time for the kids, that's time with my wife, that's time with my family and friends. Like, that's just what I chose, and I will consistently be that. But that's what's so awesome about like people know you, they know consistently this is how this is how he's gonna be. It might be on a whim, he might show up, and it's gonna be awesome if he does. But if he doesn't, we know he's he's a businessman, he's gonna be gone, and that's awesome. I love that. The realistic approach to it is the way everybody should approach it in every it's the only way that's sustainable.

SPEAKER_00 25:11

Yeah, sustainability there. I think you do have to be realistic too, like like you said, like what you want, because I I think people see like the social media stuff. You said the post, the trips, the travel, you know, like, oh, I want that, but it's like all right, well, do you want all the work that goes into that? Like, do you want to be up at three in the morning at the airport at four and on the go 24-7? Like, if that's not what you want, then you need to be realistic that the grass isn't always greener.

SPEAKER_02 25:34

So, do you think go ahead?

SPEAKER_01 25:36

No, go ahead.

SPEAKER_02 25:37

Uh, do you think so coming to that point? Do you think social media has gotten like you think the industry is better, or is it just louder? Is it is it like a I don't know. It's a loaded question. Yeah, it's a loaded question. How do you like how do you think social media has affected the industry? Is it a louder, like it's just the same thing, there's no new ideas, or is it just gotten like you think it's the volume knob is in the head of the individual? Yeah, that's true, right?

SPEAKER_01 26:06

Like, social media is not loud for me. I put the thing up, I interact solely with people I like, I don't engage in knife fights, or do I follow mostly pages about watches or puppies, right? Like, I elect to just in procurate an environment that I, if I am on it, it just kind of like makes me happy. And so, like, the there's not an industry, like an industry is like, and I'm I you know, I haven't dropped LSD in a few weeks, but it's like the industry is just like kind of a construct that people make up in their head as a as a as a useless fiction that stops them from doing things. It's like you get to narrate the whole thing, dude. You get to come up with it, whatever story you told. And the story that people get to that routinely come up with is this self-defeating. It's like there's just people doing stuff. Like, that's just like all it is. That's all the industry is is just people doing shit. There's no adults to tell you you can't do it. You can't there's cops and like the IRS, like pay your taxes if you live in the states, like pay some of them if you live in Canada. But it's like, other than that, this idea of this, like you know, this this this paper tiger of the industry that like dictates, it's like nobody gives a shit. Nobody cares. Exactly. Like it's not so now, like, are there more people doing stuff? And it's like, yeah, but as long as you like you'll find your people if you have a practice that's sustainable, right? Like, kind of like you meet me in real life, it's the same, kind of slightly deranged. Now, like, look, do I swear less in front of women and old people? Yeah, I do, right? Like, but am I a Democrat in one room and a and a Republican in the other? It's like, no, like, no, I don't give a fuck about politics, so that's probably a poor example. But it's like, you know, there's there's whatever is sustainable, that's the thing you just do that for a long enough period of time, and that's the easy thing because it that's the definition of sustainability is the thing that you can do for long periods of time, and you'll just find your audience. Everyone's just looking around, trying to find everyone else's audience, right? Like Jay and I literally were like, okay, within this 100-mile radius, there's these types of people that are attracted to our service. This is how we talk to them. If I talk like that on the internet, then the geographical radius opens up to the entire world, but of the people who need our service. And if I like start to, you know, put rocket ship emojis in my bio, like every other dumb cunt trying to sell 5,000 client. Like, who are you're not talking to anyone, dude? Yeah, because that's not even you. You just disappear into this, like the this noise of a mean. And it's like you don't have to be a superlative, you just kind of and it's gonna sound like some serious mom motivation, like you kind of just have to be yourself. Because the nice part is it's like that's how you find the blue water because the bulk of everyone else in the industry is in the middle part of the bell curve that concerns themselves with the industry that they're self-ascribing to, like the number of people that just make contrarian content of like so many people think this. I'm over here and think this. You know, that's you know what the real creative thing is shutting the fuck up and just doing the thing, just shut the fuck up and do the thing because no one does that. Everyone like has to narrate, and I understand the irony of like narrating about doing the thing, being antithetical to just doing the thing, but fuck it, that's what podcasts are, right? But it's like everyone wastes so much of their breath on telling me what they're not, like, okay, can we just fucking use that eight seconds to tell me what you're who you are or what you think? That's the just skip the this bit of all of like, because the second you say blah blah blah, you're right in the fucking shit heap with everyone else.

SPEAKER_00 29:37

That's good stuff. So in in terms of like the the internet and kind of branching off that a little bit, what is your take on everyone's concern nowadays with the advance of like AI and the internet taking over, like with coaching side of things? So I know obviously you're a big component of of hands-on in-person stuff, uh, but you guys obviously operate a lot of your business online now. Where do you feel like uh the industry is heading in terms of those things?

SPEAKER_01 30:03

Yeah, yeah, it's a good question. I mean, it's undoubtedly useful, but you have to invest in it. I think like, you know, the thing that AI AI is is it's it's like any technology, it can be a good tool, but a better master. Like the thing is you have to have AI work for you in a way that allows you, like AI to me is like another assistant, right? One of the first things I did when we started making a bit of money was I hired someone in media, someone to hold a camera, someone to edit shit. Because before it was all me. Like, if you go back to my early YouTube, I'd have a patient in my office, they would have some sort of thing. I would explain to them what I thought their thing was, and I would end up drawing some dumb picture on my whiteboard, and then the patient would leave and I would say, Okay, don't forget, don't forget, don't forget. And I would put my tripod with my camera on the treatment table, and then just redraw the picture I just drew the person, and that was my content. It was like, and I dude, I think this was at the time. This is dating me now. I think this is at the time where Instagram moved from 15 second reels to 30, maybe 60. And so clearly I talk a lot, right? I don't shut the fuck up. Imagine trying to jam this into 15 seconds, dude. We're going a million miles a minute, and so I I would put that up, and the first time, man, the second we get a dollar, I'm not doing this anymore. Because like I would fuck up, I would have to turn. I I didn't hit start, or I didn't hit stop, or I hit stop when I thought I hit start, and I hit start when I thought I hit stop, and I did the good thing and it wasn't recording. And it's like, okay, so I like hired someone for that, and then it was like, All right, what's the next point of leverage? It's like, well, I would hire someone to do like the accounting and the bookkeeping, the taxes, the dog shit at that. And then it then it just like as we grew, we got more, and like each investment helped leverage. What each investment allowed me to do was be more forward-facing in the business, right? So, like when I hired a video guy, I could spend more time doing content because I didn't have to waste 10 seconds every time going back, hitting the phone. Oh fuck, it was out of focus, oh fuck, the tripod fell. So I'm able to do the thing that I'm like good at or I want to be good at or I like doing. And then when I hired the accountant again, it's like, well, that's five hours a week. I don't have to spend going through fucking invoices or whatever the fuck. Like, great, I can spend that five hours doing the thing that I'm good at. And you know, AI, I think, is very similar, but yeah, people have to understand this, at least in like the lead acquisition space in social media, it's like don't let don't give AI your job because it sucks at it, right? Like the second I see like the kind of grainy and it's like a little bit cartoonish, and the text is a little bit weird, and it's always kind of this like muted color palette. I'm like, uh, you had Chat GPT, make that fucking post. That looks fucking dog shit. But it's like that's where you want to spend your time, that's where you want to have your fingerprint, that's your signature. Because, dude, all you have to do is again, like the the mom motivation shit is like you just if you continue to be yourself in a place where more lemmings are just jumping off the branding cliff into just obscurity, you're like, you know, you're gonna look that much more unique, you're gonna look that much more approachable, you're gonna look that much more real at the end of the day. So it's like, you know, I use AI a lot on the back end, like we use AI to build softwares and shit, but like everything that goes out, like I'll give you an example with Prescript, a decision we made consciously given the emergence of AI, is we started doing all of our newsletters video, where it's me talking to the camera. Why? Because now all every Tom Dick and douchebag now has an email list and a newsletter that's going out. I'm like, yeah, yeah, how many m-dashes are in that fucking copy that you didn't write, you piece of shit. So it's like rather than that, it's like, all right, this is how dedicated I am. Like, my job is to relay information to people again, whether that person's a client, whether that person's a student, that's what I'm trying to do. So we used AI to like help us aggregate our email list to create lead contact scoring systems, like really like more in-depth so that I could do the thing that I'm really good at better, right? So I can communicate more effectively, even over something like an email. Where previously it was just like I was just writing the copy, we were editing it, we were sending it out. But now it's like, okay, can we can we use AI to do this better? Yeah, I can actually generate more face-to-face high-value video content because we have AI systems in the background, and that's where they're meant to be. They're meant to be in the background, right? Like, and I think a lot of people just I don't know if you're just fucking lazy or you just don't like the thing that you're supposed to do. Like, if you're a coach and Bali right now, like your only job is to like just kind of like make content and like write programs. That's the stuff I like doing. That's that's so easy, bro. Like, it's so easy, and you're so fucking lazy that you just have GPT 5 or Fable do it for you or like whatever. It's like, man, just just quit. Just quit. Like, I enjoy like AI has been great in for the business because it's allowed me to do more things, but it's it allows me to authentically do the things that I enjoy doing and is my job. Like, I've been able to do so many more in-person events because of AI, right? Like, I was in Malaysia a few weeks ago, I was in Singapore, I'm going to London, uh Australia, etc. Where it's like for a few years, like, fuck man, I don't I actually can't go to these places because I have so much other shit that I can't do. Just like I couldn't go out to lunch with my friends when I first started because I had to record content, but then I hired a video guy, and then I got to like do more of the stuff that I want to do. It took me less time, and I was more efficient at it. So that's how I look at it. It's you know, and now look, I'm in a little bit of a different situation, and I think you the same, where it's like you guys run a business, like you know, just offering a coaching service. But even in that sense, like if you if you are diluting your product offering and reverting it to the mean like everyone else, it's like you will always just have a service that you sell rather than a business that you own, right?

SPEAKER_00 36:00

Yeah, I think that's where people go wrong with AI stuff. It's it's like you said, it's a great tool to help make things more efficient with your business. But like if you if you're using it out of practice and um of using like the tool, then I think it waters down your product and and it just kind of makes it it waters down your branding. Like, I think the best way to separate yourself is just putting in a high level of effort. Like people are gonna like if you care and you're putting in a lot of time and effort into your business and your clients, like that's gonna stand out. And it's I feel like the industry's gotten to the point where so many people are trying to like optimize and find shortcuts that it's it's never been easier to stand out just by just by showing up and putting in effort, literally being authentic.

SPEAKER_01 36:39

That's all you gotta do, it's all things just like just like kind of don't lose your mind. Like a lot of like a lot of business success, I think, is just not losing your mind in your 30s. Yeah, like you got an opinion about politics? That's great. We all do Israel, Palestine? That's great. Shut the fuck up, just shut up. No one cares, no one's looking to me for like I wonder. Oh, hold on, otherwise, we're gonna need our war correspondent here. Like, I know are they doing dumbbell curls in Fallujah? No, then I then I'm leave me out of it, bro. Like, just don't lose your mind. Like, I just I can't, dude. I sit and I watch and I feel like I'm in the blitz, like back in the war, and I'm just like, no, no, no, don't go outside, don't go outside, don't don't do, don't be a hero, right? You're gonna get fucking bombed to shit. And it's just people are just like, Oh, I got something to say about this. I'm like, my guy, I mean, thank you. One less one less competitor just walks the social plank. But it's like just and you're talking like you people, if you've been listening for the last 37 minutes, that advice is coming from someone this deranged, do not lose your mind. But people out there every single day, and it's like, look, like I think, like I said earlier, there's there's a room, there's room for authenticity, but there's room for understanding the the constraints of the platform, right? Like, will I talk politics and religion with friends that are well educated and over dinner or something like that? Yeah, absolutely. Right? Will I do it in 60 seconds where I'm definitely going to be misconstrued, taken out of context, and absolutely pillaried? Like, no, I will not do that. So it's and it it it sounds, but it man, I've seen just as many people, you know, uh uh teeter off into uh the obscurity in the middle of the bell curve by using AI as I have seen people just elect to get canceled about something they know nothing about. So it's like just be cool, man. And again, and I don't know what it is, like I I don't know how, and I know you guys are similar, but it's like I just I sometimes I just wonder at the end of it is just you just don't love it enough because I really think that's it. Like Polyquin when I was younger, he was a big influence. May he rest in peace, although I've never met him. He was a big influence on the way that I thought and the way I conducted myself, which you know Polloquin said some crazy shit, and Lord knows what Polloquin would have said in in this day and age. Uh but one thing we know for sure is it would have been insane. Um, but it's just like he wrote this article once about discipline, being like, discipline doesn't exist, it's a balance of things that you love to do, right? If you love the cake more than you love this the idea of having a six pack, then you will never have a six pack. So it's not this, like you know, it's not this um what's his bucket, the fucker that runs all the time and he's always yelling about it. Uh the bald black dude. Oh what the fuck is his name? I'm so glad we don't know his name. Yeah, that guy. Like, dude, like who are you talking to? Uber drivers? Like, who's who's motivated by this this this rap sheet? And I think in the business world, and again, I don't want to throw shade of dispersion, but like, you know, it's I don't even follow the guy, but it's as an undoubted influence in the conversations of this of of this uh uh subject matter. It clearly Alex Harmozy enjoys what he does, but it's like if you ain't about that life, if you don't want to lock yourself in a cupboard and write books 30 hours a day, whatever the fuck he does, like then you know, maybe it's not for you, and that's okay. You know what? That's you can think he's cool. Uh, jorts are probably not my bag, but like you don't have to like be him again. I think it like comes back to like the value, the value system and your lifestyle and all that. So it's just yeah, it's uh man. I just I don't know, like just be cool. Like you run a business, you just like keep running it, you know. You don't have to keep up with the Joneses, you just have to keep up with whatever lifestyle you want to sustain. Surround yourself with people that you like, and things will happen that will just kind of fall into place. Like, you can't force this type of shit because when you start to, then you end up in fucking shitty places you don't want to be, and then you just spiral off, and then it's unsustainable, and you either quit or become irrelevant.

SPEAKER_00 40:36

Yeah, I love that. It's actually insane how many people isolate themselves from potential business and customer or clientele by like just posting outlandish stuff online. It's like there's like I'm literally I'm literally on social media strictly for my business. Like, if I didn't coach, I probably wouldn't even be on social media.

SPEAKER_02 40:54

Oh what I'm with Jordan too. I I follow like pages that make me laugh, like some puppy pages, uh funny cat videos, people get scared. Like, I'm on I'm on watching stuff like that at night, laughing my head off. Like, most of the time, I it's it's a concept of like know what you know and stay there. And if you don't know, learn it and still stick with what you know and keep doing that. Like that that's such a simple, easy, authentic way of doing things without going outside of what you know, and you can grow that, but don't go too fast and too far without what we talked about before, losing your authenticity where you get in a place, like you said, you don't want to be at because you didn't really want to be there in the first place, you just got inspired for the two seconds you watch somebody's reel, it's like, I want to do that. No, you don't, you don't actually want to do that, and then you're stuck in a spot. Now you don't want to be there, and you well, I agree. You start to spiral in this like whirlwind of do I want to do this? Do I not want to do this? Do I actually love it? I don't know. But if you just stuck to the authenticity, like be yourself, and if it's not what you're doing, stop doing it and just be yourself. It grows more content than anything else, it'll grow faster than anything.

SPEAKER_01 42:13

It's like I don't want my mechanic to all of a sudden be my Michelin star chef. You know what I mean? Like, sorry, I the trust is the trust doesn't transfer when I see someone who all of a sudden now is like a high rocks coach. I'm like, dude, you're on four grams of gear last year. What do you know about conditioning other than cardiomyopathy? Like, that's the only that's the only way you've trained your heart is with you know left ventricular cardiomyopathy. Like, you just why am I listening? I would barely listen to you before now, but it's like it's that it's like that transferability, like, oh, that I was like somewhat of an expert over here. It's like, oh, sorry, no, your following goes back to zero when you're talking about this, yeah, right? Like, you just you're not like whether it's interdisciplinary, like you know, everyone did jujitsu for a little bit, and then everyone's doing high rocks because when you wear the shoes, you go from five, six to five, eight and a half. I know why they're doing it, I know your dirty secrets, but it's like and so it's but it's sorry, like you kind of go back to zero on the authority totem pool. I don't care what your number says, like, yeah, my mechanic, hey, the the the air car. Well, I don't fucking know anything about cars, it's not working. Okay, fixes it. If I show up to a Michelin two-star joint, I'm like, Bill, is that you? Oh, I thought I'd take up, you know, a foie gras. What do you think? I'm like, get the fuck out of the kitchen, dog. I'm not eating the shit. So it's just like, yeah, but again, I think we've been circling this point for a while. It's like maybe we're just really lucky that we found the thing that we love to do, right? And I and that's what I come back to, and that's and that's like what that's my useful fiction that I tell myself that allows me to just quell the rage. Because I see it, I'm like, yo, bro, what the fuck are you doing? Because people come into my space all the time. Not that I think it's necessarily mine, but it's like, you know, your boy sent out more than a few cease and desists to people who just Directly rip off the stuff that we teach. And it's like at a certain point, you after the the lawyer just claps the guy back into oblivion, you're just like, hey man, like just so you know, like I don't, I'm not like super mad at you, but I just like hope you find the thing that's your thing. Because like clearly you just found the thing that was our thing, and our lawyer and the the you know, the US government or god, it was usually abroad, it's usually fucking Australia. Uh the Australian guy, and like some lawyer has gone, like, yeah, this is you're you're just stealing from them. When the dust settles and the invoices are paid, I still have a moment of like, okay, this wasn't your thing. Clearly, it was our thing, and the courts agreed, but like go find your thing, the thing that gets you up at 4:30 in the morning, right? The thing that like what you would fly around the world for a thousand times over. So, like, I really just think it's like chase whatever that is, and you'll be able to make a business out of it.

SPEAKER_00 44:55

Yeah, that's great advice. I I truly do I think about that often how fortunate we are to like be in an industry that we enjoy doing because so many people just wake up and hate what they do, and it's like it truly is uh uh a joy to be able to wake up and chase something that you know you can work endless hours at and it doesn't feel like a job. I mean, everything's gonna feel like work at times, like that's that's life, but like we're we're very fortunate to be able to work in an industry where we can help people feel better both physically and mentally. Like, that's truly like a special, a special thing that I think we shouldn't take for granted. Um, but yeah, so transitioning to some other topics, we had uh a Q ⁇ A, so we had a few things that people wanted to ask. Um, and one of them was about the spoken nutrition brand. Um, so can you tell us a little bit more about what what the um the vision is behind that and what what all is going on there?

SPEAKER_01 45:43

Yeah, so I was um me and three of my close friends were approached to put together a fully NSF certified uh for sport um line for pro athletes. Basically, like if you had a blank check and you were to create a product line for athletes that you work with, um what would you make? So we spent about a year on Zoom calls deliberating formulas, thinking about problems that we solve on a day, pulling up hundreds of thousands of blood panels that we've taken across our careers. Like I'm the most junior of the the little barbershop quartet of formulators that we've uh that founded the company. So it was me, Andy O'Brien, uh uh David Lawrence, and Ben Prentiss. And um, yeah, we just kind of set out to just do things the right way. Like, you know, I've been working with pro athletes now for the better part of a decade, and I've seen I was actually, I remember, I won't say his name, but if anyone follows sports closely, they might know who I'm talking about. I remember being with an athlete, uh I probably shouldn't even say his position, but who took a pre-workout in his rookie season and got popped. And I was there the day two years later, where he got his first paycheck that was ungarnished by the NFL to pay off a fine. And it's like, you know, he's a backup QB on like a second-rate team, but like he made it undersized, small kid, and just gets fucking for what some pixie dust pump pre-workout, whatever the fuck. And it's like, oh man, you hate to see it. So, you know, the four of us we work in high-stakes environments where you know our athletes are getting tested. Like, you know, I remember getting out of the gym in London working with an athlete, we're staying at an Airbnb, he's about to play Wimbledon, and I'm getting home from training at 6 a.m. in the morning, and there's two fucking bald men knocking on the door. I'm like, yo, who the fuck? And they're like, Oh, we're with World Anti-Doping Association, and it's like, oh, uh, I'll be right back. Let me so I'm blocking just you know, 275 fucking veins out of my forehead, tag, hey, get the fuck away from the front door. Like, we're here to drug test your client. I'm like, that's probably not by accident, and but it's you know, I've seen it go wrong, so we were lucky enough to have an investor that was interested in solving this problem, and so that's what we did. And we were able to come up with some some cool some cool formulas and some really basic shit done really, really well. Um, and I think that's sort of like the magic behind the brand, is that there are things where look, I I don't know how to sell our creatine. Why? Because it's fucking creatine, it's NSF for sports certified, so it's just creatine, which you know, some creatines aren't just creatine. Uh it's micronized, it's monohydrate, but like, you know, so are 10,000 others. But it's like we're not going to run away from it because it's not unique if it's effective. But then we put together, you know, sleep builder is probably our our uh most popular product. And you know, for me, something that's non-melatonin base, that's non-binding, no herbals, something that actually promotes circadian rhythm, that's seven ingredients that's naturally sweet and no artificial sweeteners that I can take every night with no dependency. It's like, yeah, dude fucking time zones I've been in this year. Do you know how annoying it is when you're dealing with an East Coast, West Coast swing? You know, one of your guys is starting the starting the NHL season on the West Coast, going through Anaheim and LA and Seattle, Vegas, Vancouver, and then he's got to be back in fucking Florida for you know two or three days. And it's like, you know how annoying that time swing is? You know how much that sucks when like you already get up at four, and now you're getting up at one, and you're like, I'm getting up at one o'clock, like fuck. And so you know, now we have something that we go from creatine on one of the spectrum. It's like, yeah, dude, it's like honestly, it's just creatine. Like, you can buy it somewhere else, you can buy it from us. If you need an NSF to make sure that you know your your paychecks don't get garnished for two years by the NFL, then sure, we're we're a good option there. Um, if you don't give a fuck and you maybe you want a little bit of an extra pop, be sure to roll the dice somewhere else. But then Sleep Builders, like now, up until quite recently, was really the only formula of its kind, until, of course, you know, imitation is the finest form of flattery, and a bunch of bodybuilders without a brain stem in their head got wind of the products that we were selling and decided to rip it off completely. Uh, they know who they are. And when you find the formula, you'd be like, This looks oddly familiar. That's so strange. Just this fucking team who've spoken. But it's like, you know, again, the finest form of flattery. But it's like, you know, that's that's what we want. The coaches that we work with, so our I mean, our team is crazy. It's literally people that supplement companies just can't buy, like your Thorns and your and I feel comfortable talking about loud because everyone kind of knows like these were brands that started practitioner focus that got big money behind them and they kind of sold out. Like, Jesus, man, I've been around new sports nutrition for 15, 20 years, and I need a goddamn biochemistry degree to go through some of these supplement companies' uh uh catalogs. I'm like, You have how many products, dude? I I got I I need my clients need two things, they need to know where to start and who to trust. And that was what we tried to set out to do. It's like there's 13 products that solve the big problems, and that's what we're after. They do it, they do it remarkably well, whether again it's simple things like creatine or really creative formulas like like Sleep Builder. Greens is another one that that jumps out on the phytonutrition side. And we just that's what we did. We started with the problems, and the supplements were the solutions, rather than looking at the market and just being like, Oh, well, you know, we can make this and tweak this, or you know, what everyone's doing now is just like taking our formulas and writing them off as their own. It's we just reverse engineer like we've always done, but we just did it with someone else's money, and now we can make it cool.

SPEAKER_00 51:21

That's really cool. Yeah, I'm I'm really intrigued by the sleep builder supplement. I work with um a lot of natural bodybuilders and a lot of my lifestyle clients are busy parents, and then I work with a few pro athletes. But I think the biggest um the biggest thing that see people struggling with is sleep quality and it affects you know training, performance, ability to lose weight, and all those things, like cognitive function. Like, I think supplements that can like help improve that can just elevate so many areas of people's lives. I I'm always a big, big fan of supplements like that that can help people get better recovery so they can put more into their workouts and things like that. What was the process like for you guys getting that through like lab testing and getting it on the market? Was that like pretty extensive?

SPEAKER_01 52:01

Yeah, yeah. It's I mean it's extensive every time. We're just we're bringing a second flavor sleep builder to market here in August, uh, and we're restocking. I mean, sleep builder sells out like fucking crazy. Our our whey protein sells out like crazy. So every single time we go through a batch, we have to get that batch NSF uh for NSF for sport. So there's a difference there as well, right? There's NSF and then there's NSF for sport, which is even more rigorous. So we have we're NSF for sport because we have to be. The athletes who work with the teams that we work with demand that standard. So every batch has to go through, and then every every contract manufacturer where we have these products manufactured have to be a pre-approved facility, right? There can't be someone fucking you know just mixing up Tesla Morelin or fucking BPC 157 in the same VAT and like whoopsie daisies, like, oh, there goes your greens powder. Um, so that there's a lot of upfront logistics in finding facilities that are already NSF resort certified. Um, and then every batch has to go through sort of a batch certification so that we can vet for um and basically we can just protect the people that we work with. Like that's that's the end of the day what it's all about, right? Like it's just you uh we can put a face and a name and a dollar figure to people who've got this wrong, people who've cut corners to line their own pockets, and it's like I can't do that because I fucking I get Christmas cards from these people, man. Like, I'm not giving that up to make an extra buck. So um that's sort of like the beauty of the brand is that we can operate like a big company, given you know that we have some some really great investors, but we can also operate like a mom and pop shop where we don't have to cut corners, we don't have to you know bend the knee to like you know a big financial institution or a capital group that's like buying in. It's like no, no, no, we we we get to call the shots, which is really cool.

SPEAKER_00 53:55

Yeah, it's great that you guys have all that that testing too. I didn't realize how rigorous the uh the NFL drug testing was. One of my clients, he was like going into year three league, and he was like, Yeah, I've been tested like 17 times already. And I was like, What? It's insane.

SPEAKER_01 54:09

Yeah, in some ways it's insane, in other ways you're like, are they missing that guy? Or they just lost his number, apparently. They don't know where he lives, but yeah, no, it is, and you know what, man, it's not you just you don't want to take the risk, you just don't you just don't want to take the risk, dude. It's just it's just not worth it. Like, you know, I I've I've I've worked with athletes. I was in Bogota, Colombia earlier this year with an athlete, and she couldn't eat the meat because there's clen butyrol in the beef in Colombia, right? So it's like, you know, she's a fucking she's an uh unreal athlete, just absolutely lights out, but it's like I'm sitting there eating shrimp cocktail 12 meals a day. I'm like, yo, I'm gonna get hard metal poisoning. She's like, Yeah, but we can't eat the beef because Clen. I was like, Well, I'm gonna come back here when I'm not with you and I need to go on a little cut, but like, yo, that's crazy. So, you know, it's and you don't know, you see these lab tests and you see stuff come through, and you're you know, sometimes it reads like a bad excuse, like, oh, really? Like there was D ball, and you're but then you're like, dude, I see some of the tests, and you're like, Jesus Christ, and you hear some of the stories about how stuff gets made and where it gets made and what else gets made there, and you're like, Okay, yeah, that's that's fair play. I mean, it's not fair play, but it's like it's it's very understandable to see that checks out exactly.

SPEAKER_00 55:25

So with the uh with the sleep builder, when you're because I know you travel all over like different time zones all the time. So will you take that when you get on the flight? Like if it's a it's if you're heading over like UK or something like that, will you take it on the flight over? Or how do you use it to get kind of acclimated different time zones?

SPEAKER_01 55:40

So the nice part about it is that because it's it doesn't fuck with your circadian rhythm, like that's a crazy when people think melatonin, I'm like, what are you doing? What type of buy now pay later situation are you like look and look, don't get me wrong, bro. Like, you're not gonna like I'm born in 1990. Do the math. I was 17 years old when Jack 3D came out. I am well, I am no stranger to sacrificing tomorrow's health for today's workout. But like, melatonin is not the hill I'm dying on. If you want to line up some 1-3 dimethylamilamine, you want to go to the moon with me, like buckle, buckle up. But melatonin, what are we doing? It's like it blows me away. And the crazy thing is when I see sleep formulas that aren't just direct copies of ours now. Uh, I can't wait. I'll tell you offline who's doing it. I'll send you a link. It's actually laughable. I'll show I send you a YouTube video where our product is actually in the background of this guy's fucking pantry, and then a year later it's like, oh wow, what an innovative fucking formula, you fucking thief. Um, anyways, but I'll see people who aren't just directly ripping off our formula, and I'll see them release their sleep product. And I like I look at people, I'm like, why are they admitting this? Like, why are they admitting this is what's in it? Someone looks at me and goes, They're not admitting, they're bragging. I'm like, what? This is crazy. It's like it's like a still knocks, it's like it's like a sedative. It's like the thing about our sleep product was the problem we set out to solve was not sleep, the problem we set out to solve was performance. We just use sleep as the vector to improve it, right? So, like, one of the things that people will actually notice on sleep builders, their sleep duration is shorter, but their sleep quality is exponentially better by metrics that track it, whoop band or and things like that. But it's like you'll have people waking up like 45 minutes to an hour and a half earlier, but there's so one of the ingredients that we have that pushes this principle forward is glycine, which, like you know, glycine is an amino acid, but at the requisite dose can decrease sleep onset latency, so it cuts the time between head hitting the pillow and you going to sleep. And one of the things that's really useful about glycine, especially in the dose that we have it at, is it's decreases core body temperature, right? And if you're I mean, I'm 250 on an average day, it's like I run hot. Like I cut down to 225, like uh, I don't know, a few months ago for a photo shoot, and I was freezing cold. I'm like, what is it like to be someone who's like 160 pounds? Like I'd just be in a parka the whole time. But if I'm on the road, you know, I'm in some dog shit hotel somewhere and I go to the thing and it doesn't go below a certain like 73 degrees, I'm like, I'm gonna burn this fucking hotel to the ground. But it's like, okay, I can reproducibly get higher quality sleep by you know using something like this. But again, why we use glycine? Sure, decrease sleep onset latency, decrease core body temperature. But the big mover is that in all the studies that have been performed, next day performance objectively and subjectively improves, right? Where it's like if I take something that's just like you know, I'm smoking some Oshwagonda fucking bong before I go to sleep, and I can't operate heavy machinery the next day, it's like, okay, cool, my eyes were shut for 13 hours. I'm a panda bear, but the last time I checked, panda bear don't play pro sports, right? So that's like a big difference in the way that we formulated it. Was like, you know, to your to your to your question, like if I'm flying to the UK, depending on if I'm taking a red eye, I just take it before I intend to go to sleep, but it's not a sedative, right? I have some athletes who are really like sympathetically driven that guess what their post-workout is sleep builder. I give sleep builder post-workout because they're fucking, you know, they're goddamn gnats, they're jumping off the walls, and I just go like no, you need to calm the fuck down. We need to start this recovery process. So I'll give them a scoop of sleep builder post-workout, and we'll get another one before bed.

SPEAKER_02 59:32

Okay, I need I need that now. As soon as possible.

SPEAKER_00 59:37

So you guys is that do you guys operate fully fully through online, or are you guys in any stores?

SPEAKER_01 59:43

Um, no, so the the company being as young as it is, our large sale wholesale, our wholesale distribution is exclusively to pro teams. So, you know, being sort of this small batch bespoke company in the last couple of years, like I mean, I probably shouldn't say the team. Let's just say all but one team in the NHL uses our products, 70% of major league baseball, 30% of the NBA, and 40% of the NFL use our products, and that's not to mention college. So anything wholesale, we just we have to just keep available for our teams. Um, so we will, as we continue to grow, be in stores. We're coming to Canada with we've done only in the states so far. Um, the Canadian national health product number is just a little bit more rigorous in the FDA. So we'll be in one store in Canada. There'll be our exclusive retail for our first year. Uh that's Popeyes. But for now, it's all direct to consumer online at spokennutrition.com if you're in the states and in Canada. It will soon be spokennutrition.ca, where you can get direct to consumer. But yeah, for right now, with like the the minimum order quantities that we order in, just given sort of the uniqueness of the formulas that we work with and the relative scarcity of some of the raw materials and the volume that we that we use them in, we sort of just keep large scale distribution exclusive to the teams because you know someone makes a playoff run and they're like, Oh fuck, like we need X, Y, and Z. We just we only have so much inventory that can go in so many places. So it will come in the future. But one of the things that we're that we're dedicated towards is like every registered dietitian for every sports team is every three or four years a company comes around and you know, so they got acquired, or there was a second round of fundraising, and someone goes, Why are we giving these teams such a good deal? We don't need this. We do you know 10 billion a month in fucking in the GNC or whatever, and then they lose that practitioner focus. So for me, you know, our primary concern is obviously the athletes at the end of the day that use it, but our secondary concern is the other professionals that depend on us to be able to supply the product, right? Performance directors, uh registered dietitians with teams. So we kind of stick, we we work with some facilities one-on-one outside of uh the pro sports realm, but a lot of our inventory is just tied to just getting as close to the source of pro athletes as possible.

SPEAKER_00 1:02:07

Cool, awesome. Well, Jordan, I know you got a lot going on today, I'm sure, but we got a few more questions for you before we wrap up today. Uh, next question on the list was uh, what's the best piece of advice that you've ever received? It could be business, uh, fitness, life. Just what's the best piece of advice you feel like you've ever received sticks at you? It could be anything.

SPEAKER_01 1:02:29

Uh I don't know if it's advice, but it's like maybe some sayings like take care of the little things and the big things take care of themselves. Um that's one that I really like. Um yeah, that's probably in the most succinct what like the most succinct sort of axiom that I think is is palatable over a podcast. Like there's situations that you learn from, or there's entire books that you read that like you know, the corpus of the story has some profound impact. But something that I think is like summarized that most people I think would probably benefit from is one that at least I benefit from that's kind of short and sweet. Is yeah, if you take care of the little things, the big things take care of themselves.

SPEAKER_00 1:03:11

I love it. The last one we got for you today, it's a deep one. What do you want your legacy to be when it's all said and done?

SPEAKER_01 1:03:20

Oh, I don't care. I don't, I don't care, man. Because it's like I'm I we're it's uh it's it's to think that anyone cares now is silly, right? Why would they care after I gotta give them homework? They I remember me for this, go spread my ashes here. It's like, dude, you're dead, bro. You're worm food, like fuck off. We dealt with you while you're here. Yeah, so like, no, I I don't I don't care. I don't think about it, man. I just uh you know this could all be a fucking simulation, and at the right dose, it usually is. So I um yeah, I don't care. I don't care, I don't care. Like, I don't think about it at all. I don't give a shit.

SPEAKER_02 1:03:57

Oh, that's awesome. I love it. This was a great podcast. That was good. That was the rice hose, it could be anything you wanted it to be.

SPEAKER_00 1:04:07

All right, guys. Well, thanks for tuning in. We'll be uh posting this up next Tuesday so you can find us on Apple, Spotify, YouTube, all the places. Thanks, guys.