Gracie & Miles on Olympic Fencing, Being Different, & Launching a League

In this episode of Athletes After Hours, I sit down with fencing icon Miles Chamley-Watson for a conversation that goes far beyond the arena. We dive into the mindset that’s made him one of the most electrifying athletes in the sport, and how he’s transformed the sport of fencing into both an art form and a lifestyle. Miles opens up about using fencing as his outlet, the thing that grounds him, fuels him, and gives him purpose. We discuss the importance of identity, the level of pressure that comes with being the best, and what it really looks like to stay true to yourself in a sport that often expects you to fit a mold. He shares the highs of competing on the world stage, along with the unseen struggles that come with chasing greatness. We also get a deeper look into his vision for the future of fencing and how he’s working to push the sport into a new era. This episode is raw, honest, and filled with perspective you don’t usually hear from elite athletes. If you’ve ever questioned yourself, your path, or your purpose—this one’s for you.

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Transcript

SPEAKER_04 0:00

I was a, you know, pretty bad kid growing up, Dennis and Menace. And I was super ADHD, ADD, dyslexic, everything. And fencing kind of became my like adderall, literally my drug. And I was just addicted to it. If I didn't have fencing in my life, I don't think I'd be talking to you from outside of the cell.

SPEAKER_01 0:18

Today's guest is a three-time Olympian, Olympic bronze medalist, two-time world champion, and first ever African-American world champion. He is one of the most influential figures in modern fencing, known for redefining the sport with his performance and personality. Now he's stepping into a new chapter as the founder of the World Fencing League with the vision to transform fencing on a global scale. Launching on April 25th, right here in LA, he plans to evolve the sport of fencing beyond its traditional roots. Miles Chamley Watson, welcome to Athletes After Hours.

SPEAKER_04 0:52

Wow, what an intro. Thank you so much for having me. That was good. I thought it had me up, didn't it?

SPEAKER_01 0:56

Of course. You are quite the icon in the fencing world.

SPEAKER_04 1:00

I'm gonna let you say that, but it was a pleasure to be here. Thank you. And congrats on all your success as well.

SPEAKER_01 1:04

Oh, thank you. Thank you so much. Well, I want to just jump right into it because you have a very unique background. I want to know how you got into fencing, where you're from, and really like who got you into it.

SPEAKER_04 1:18

Yeah. All right. So crazy story. So I was born in London.

SPEAKER_02 1:22

Okay.

SPEAKER_04 1:23

Um, I was a you know, pretty bad kid growing up, Dennis and Menace.

SPEAKER_02 1:27

Oh no.

SPEAKER_04 1:28

Yeah, yeah. I played football, track and field, and then my mom met my stepdad, who's my dad, who um was working in investment banking. Then we moved to New York kind of in the middle of the year, went to public school.

SPEAKER_03 1:40

Oh no.

SPEAKER_04 1:41

Yeah, as a British mixed kid, it was it wasn't easy. So obviously got lots of fights. Um, and then my mom met this lady that was on the admissions program for a private school to give tuition grants. She's like, Well, I can give your son an interview, but I don't know if he's gonna get in. I got in, you know what I mean? Okay, because of the accent, but as a punishment, I had to pick up tennis, fencing, or badminton because they're considered mental sports.

SPEAKER_02 2:05

Okay.

SPEAKER_04 2:05

I was like, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, you know, football or soccer for you guys. Uh and I was like, all right, whatever. Picked up swords, and I was like, wait, this is kind of fun. Right? Every little kid that at that age loves swords. Exactly, right? It's like you pick it up with your friends with a stick in the backyard. I was like, wait, this is like amazing. And then as I started to get better in fencing, so I was like, get better in school, and I was super ADHD, ADD, dyslexic, everything, and fencing kind of became my like adderall.

SPEAKER_02 2:33

Wow.

SPEAKER_04 2:34

Yeah. So if I never got into trouble, or I would never go out of trouble.

SPEAKER_02 2:38

I love that.

SPEAKER_04 2:39

Which is a double-sided sword. Uh which was yeah, crazy. And then 9-11 happened, and they moved to Philadelphia.

SPEAKER_03 2:47

Wow.

SPEAKER_04 2:47

Then I went to Quaker School, which that didn't work out very well for me. So then I went to boarding school in Long Island. Shout out to the Knox School. Um, they were amazing. Uh, Mrs. Bolt, my favorite teacher in the whole world.

SPEAKER_03 2:58

Oh.

SPEAKER_04 2:59

Um, and yeah, and that's kind of how fencing kind of progressed for me. But Ellen Grayson at the Dwight School kind of saw my talent, and she was the reason why I was able to kind of you know fence outside of school. So without her and Eric Rosenberg, I would never be um who I am today, for sure.

SPEAKER_01 3:15

Wow. Yeah, that's incredible. I want to go back to the ADHD thing because that resonated a lot. I have raging ADHD. I feel like most athletes do, like, it's kind of a weird prerequisite to like get into a sport is just be ADHD out of your mind.

SPEAKER_00 3:32

100%.

SPEAKER_01 3:32

And that's how I got thrown into gymnastics to begin with, anyways. Was I literally could not sit still. And so, like, for you, how have you kind of utilized, I guess, this sport to advance your ADHD or help medicate it, or are you medicated?

SPEAKER_04 3:48

Yeah, no, I've never taken that. Wow. I remember one time, this is like a horror story, but I was in boarding school and they're like, Mom, you're just too nuts. And I was like, Well, deal with it. And they're like, you have to take it was called Ritalin.

SPEAKER_01 3:59

Oh, yeah, gnarly.

SPEAKER_04 4:00

And they try to put it in my mouth, and I was like, Yeah, and I just like spat it back. I was like, never. Yeah, it was wild. And I was like, no, taking that. Because I saw kids that would take it, and they would just be like numb.

SPEAKER_01 4:09

Yeah, they're like robots, you know.

SPEAKER_04 4:11

And I think, I mean, to me, ADHD is like, it's for people, obviously, their minds obviously, you know. Um, but it was like finding something that you can just give your attention to that you love, yeah. And I feel like everybody's first option is give kids drugs. But I'm like, just find something whether it's art, whether it's you know, fashion, whether it's sports, it's like just finding something that they love, yeah. And yeah, so that was like my way out because it fencing is like physical chess. Okay, and it like forces you to focus without really realizing you're focusing.

SPEAKER_03 4:42

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_04 4:43

If that makes sense, for sure. Because you're focused on the point, otherwise you're gonna get hit.

SPEAKER_03 4:46

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 4:47

Or stabbed, right?

SPEAKER_03 4:48

For sure.

SPEAKER_04 4:48

So it kind of just became like my my literally my drug, and I was just addicted to it.

SPEAKER_01 4:54

That's sick.

SPEAKER_04 4:55

And it was like when you put them, you know, the helmet on, you kind of feel like a superhero.

SPEAKER_01 4:59

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 4:59

I mean, you look like one, so it's I mean it's you know it's a pretty cool outfit. Yeah, uh, and I think that was kind of the reason why I was able to deal with my ADHD was because of fencing. If I didn't have fencing in my life, I don't think I'd be talking to you from outside of the cell. I was a shout out to my mom.

SPEAKER_01 5:17

Yeah, she's an angel, huh?

SPEAKER_04 5:18

Oh my god. I was such a pain in the ass. No. For no reason, really. Um she's angsty. Yeah, but now she's, you know, now she's Were you an only child? No, I've got two sisters.

SPEAKER_01 5:30

Okay.

SPEAKER_04 5:30

Santori's my older sister, City's my little sister. Okay, and then my mom got six aunts.

SPEAKER_03 5:36

Wow.

SPEAKER_04 5:37

Grandmother. So I was raised by women until my you know, stepdad came to my life. He's my dad. He called my stepdad, he's my dad.

SPEAKER_03 5:42

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 5:43

Um 100%. Um, so without him in there teaching me how to become a man, my mom was definitely the one that was teaching me everything.

SPEAKER_01 5:50

Wow. Yeah. I firmly believe when a man grows up with strong female presence, it shapes men into like far better men.

SPEAKER_00 6:00

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 6:00

It just, I don't know what it is. It's just, yeah, something about it is just next level.

SPEAKER_04 6:05

For sure.

SPEAKER_01 6:06

And it gives you like the most incredible confidence as well.

SPEAKER_00 6:09

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 6:09

Because I think women are so in emotionally in tune and they recognize that confidence is so key to really take on the world, even if sometimes it's delusional confidence. It's just like that level of confidence, I think, is really what helps us be able to take these massive steps into like entrepreneurship and putting ourselves out there and being brave and doing all the things.

SPEAKER_04 6:31

I say this all the time women are superheroes.

SPEAKER_01 6:33

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 6:33

Like I couldn't even imagine like creating a child. And then I don't want to think about that. And then making a child.

SPEAKER_03 6:40

I don't want to think about that. I'm the one that's gonna have to do it.

SPEAKER_04 6:42

So, I'll just be there with cheery, you can do it. Yeah, from behind the curtain. Uh no, women are incredible, and I think, like you said, it's literally perfect. Like being raised by my mom has taught me everything, you know, like my emotions, it's okay to let them out. Because a lot of men are, you know, suppress those emotions.

SPEAKER_02 6:59

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 6:59

And it's like, oh, you're not much. Like, mate, that doesn't mean anything.

SPEAKER_02 7:03

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 7:03

So I think that's why I've been able to, you know, turn into the man I am today was because my mom.

SPEAKER_01 7:08

That's incredible.

SPEAKER_04 7:09

For sure.

SPEAKER_01 7:09

Shout out, Mama.

SPEAKER_04 7:10

Shout out, Mum Z. Lizzie, I love you.

SPEAKER_01 7:12

Oh, love her.

SPEAKER_04 7:13

Yeah, she's the best.

SPEAKER_01 7:14

That's amazing. I was gonna ask you, I mean, you obviously have this incredible confidence instilled in you, and I think anyone can see it from a mile away, no pun intention. But I didn't even mean to do that. But where do you think there was this moment in your career that really was a turning point for you to completely step into who you are today?

SPEAKER_04 7:38

It's a lot of good questions, Leth. Um Thank you. Probably say 2013.

SPEAKER_01 7:44

Okay.

SPEAKER_04 7:45

After my first Olympics. I was a baby then.

SPEAKER_01 7:48

Um How old were you then?

SPEAKER_04 7:51

219, 20. I'm not gonna math. 20, 19, 20, 20? 20? 20, I think. You were 20 years old? Yeah, in London, my first one.

SPEAKER_01 8:00

At your first Olympics. Wow.

SPEAKER_04 8:02

Yeah. Um, and I actually got fourth there with and I was in the team USA room, and the whole basketball team comes down. And Kobe comes in there, and he's Shut up. Yeah, never forget the story. It's like so. I haven't tattooed on my leg. And he's like, Oh, what sport do you play? I was like, fencing is what happened. I got fourth. And then he said, The greatest athletes have the shortest memory.

SPEAKER_03 8:21

Yeah, goldfish.

SPEAKER_04 8:22

And I was like, Alright. And then I took that and then I won World Championships for the first time in the history of the sport. And I think that was the greatest moment of my life to probably to date.

SPEAKER_03 8:32

Wow.

SPEAKER_04 8:32

And then that's when I was like, okay, fencing's my purpose.

SPEAKER_03 8:35

That's that's it.

SPEAKER_04 8:36

Uh-huh. Because there was no one before me that you could be like, oh, look, he's successful, he's making a lot of money, he's you know, a star. So those like told my mom, I was like, Listen, I'll be the first millionaire fencer. It's like saying you'll see a unicorn. I just said it randomly.

SPEAKER_01 8:49

Yeah. Um, but it's in your DNA.

SPEAKER_04 8:52

Yeah, I just feel like I will get whatever I want, you know? Yeah. Not in a cocky way, just like I know.

SPEAKER_01 8:58

No, no, no, I can tell. Like you have that special thing in you where it's like, I'm the same way. Like I'm the I'm so stubborn in the best way, where I'm like, the second I want something, I'm gonna get it.

SPEAKER_04 9:08

There's no it sends a box.

SPEAKER_01 9:10

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 9:10

You know, one of my tattoos is self-belief here.

SPEAKER_01 9:12

Love.

SPEAKER_04 9:13

Which is all you need, I think. Tell little kids that's all you need in life. That's it.

SPEAKER_01 9:17

I love that. I mean, I can I can attest, every Olympian I've ever met, interviewed, or been friends with, they all have, like I've said, this incredible self-belief and delusional confidence. And I think like people have asked me, like, you know, what's the difference between a pro athlete and an Olympian or a regular athlete and Olympian? And I'm like, delusional confidence. Yeah. Honestly, it's just like thinking about something outrageous, but firmly believing that you can do it.

SPEAKER_04 9:44

100%.

SPEAKER_01 9:45

And it that's all it takes, truly.

SPEAKER_04 9:46

Yeah, you have to be crazy.

SPEAKER_01 9:47

Yeah, you gotta be a little, you gotta have a screw loose.

SPEAKER_04 9:49

Yeah, you need a couple two or three, you know, off the five, you're like, now we're yeah, now we need to maybe be medicated at that point.

SPEAKER_01 9:56

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_04 9:57

See the doctor, but 100%. I think that's what, like you said perfectly, that's what makes the best athletes well who they are. Yeah. Is just I know what I want, whether my coach does, whether my friends don't, my family do. I know deep down inside that I will get what I want.

SPEAKER_01 10:10

Yeah. I think what sucks sometimes when it comes to that level of delusional confidence is I'm sure you've experienced a lot of backlash from being very, you know, stood in your spot. You know what you want, you're you're willing to get it. How has that kind of affected your journey to where you are now?

SPEAKER_04 10:33

Yeah, uh great question. I mean, the backlash is something that you kind of want in a weird way.

SPEAKER_02 10:39

Okay.

SPEAKER_04 10:39

I think that's that's when you that's when you know you're really changing something that's been set in stone for so long.

SPEAKER_02 10:46

Yeah, okay.

SPEAKER_04 10:47

And especially in my sport, which is, you know, predominantly white.

SPEAKER_02 10:50

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 10:50

Um, it hasn't really changed for, you know, hundreds of years. And since one of the oldest sports in the Olympiad. So I think when I was, you know, the first black person to win, was like, oh, okay. And then being in the face of a sport that hasn't seen someone like me get backlash from people that in the Federation or in the in the just parents or feel like politics get involved and yeah, right? And I think that's something that you have to be have very thick skin for. Absolutely. Very thick skin. So now when I can see kids and parents messaging me, like, oh my god, like my kid is getting bullied in school, and then show them a picture of you, and that changes. So that's bigger than any medal I could ever win, for sure.

SPEAKER_02 11:29

Wow.

SPEAKER_04 11:29

Yeah, and I think that's what's really cool is seeing, you know, boys, girls, yellow, brown, whatever that might be, that are happy to just do what they want to do because I've inspired them. Yeah. That's that's awesome.

SPEAKER_01 11:39

Absolutely.

SPEAKER_04 11:40

I mean, I kind of like it. I kind of like it.

SPEAKER_01 11:42

You like being the man that ruffles feathers?

SPEAKER_04 11:44

Yeah, because it's like if you it's funny, people be like, oh my god, you're a nice guy.

SPEAKER_01 11:47

Absolutely.

SPEAKER_04 11:48

I'm like, bruv, you don't what do you mean? They're like, yes, they think I'm just an arsehole. Oh, really? I mean, some people, yeah, they and then like, no, he's actually like an I was like, yeah, because you just think this paint a picture of me without knowing me.

SPEAKER_02 12:00

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 12:01

Um, so I think the backlash comes with you making the change and you really, really, you know, trying to do something different than most people. Um, so I've I've experienced that, you know, racist in my sport since I was 14, 15.

unknown 12:12

Wow.

SPEAKER_04 12:12

So that comes, you know, that comes with whatever you might not know at the time, but now with hindsight, you're like, wait, why didn't I oh, you know? So if I can be the punching bag, I'm gonna need a lot more punches.

SPEAKER_01 12:25

I love that.

SPEAKER_04 12:26

So I'll do it for the kids that are looking up to me for sure.

SPEAKER_01 12:29

I don't mind doing that. Yeah, I absolutely love that. I mean you have the personality to take it for sure.

SPEAKER_04 12:34

Thank you.

SPEAKER_01 12:34

Yeah, like that's an impressive role to take knowing that you are gonna be kind of this massive poster child for an entirely new era of sport.

SPEAKER_00 12:44

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 12:45

It is super disappointing to hear though that you were one of the first African American men to ever like what? It's 2026.

SPEAKER_04 12:56

Yeah, it's crazy because there's been, you know, there's kind of Peter Westbrook before me, who wasn't was an Olympian, you know, Olympic medalist, um, you know, uh Keith Smart, Aaron Smart, but no one ever won World Championships ever.

SPEAKER_03 13:08

Wow.

SPEAKER_04 13:09

So I have to pay homage to them of, you know, as well. But yeah, yeah, I can't believe I was the first one.

SPEAKER_03 13:14

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 13:14

And you know, it's wild.

SPEAKER_03 13:16

And not that long ago.

SPEAKER_04 13:18

Yeah, and I mean being the first one is you know, history, which is which is incredible. But then you sit back and you think, like, wow. Why you know, it's kind of not sad, but it's like very shocking.

SPEAKER_01 13:30

I think it's a little sad.

SPEAKER_04 13:31

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 13:32

I think it's sad that there aren't more people like you in the sport. I mean, look how amazing you've done in the sport. I think if anything, that should inspire more people to try it, yeah, to get into it. And I mean, I'm trying to think of like the first African-American female in gymnastics. Like, I don't I honestly it was so long ago. Do you know what I mean? Yeah, I don't know. And I think that's what kind of makes me sad. It's just like I don't know. There's just there there needs to be representation. Why do you think there isn't representation in your sport?

SPEAKER_04 14:04

I mean, I think there's a couple reasons. I think one is is is people are maybe scared to you know take that burden on or take that first step, I think, right? Um I just don't think people have been maybe thought that way or been like, listen, I want to be the raidist in what I'm doing. Yeah. Because it is a like you said, it's a crazy thing to think. Like when I was 12 years old, my my first coach, Irene, I just saw her last week in New York, and she's like, Well, even change, you just bigger couple and tattoos, right? Like that's super cool to be the same, but knowing like I knew at like 15, I was like, I'm gonna, yeah. I I just knew I'm gonna do something, I'm gonna do something good. I don't know what it was, but I knew that I would do something um pretty special, or try to at least, but what's the worst thing that happens? You fail. No, literally, like who cares?

SPEAKER_01 14:50

Oh, I love that.

SPEAKER_04 14:51

Like, who like it's who I don't understand who cares?

SPEAKER_01 14:53

And also, like, no one's actually really watching. Like, no one cares. I know it's like we out here making it like that we're the main character when we're really not even the main character, we're not even on set.

SPEAKER_04 15:03

Yeah, I'm like, my boy, who actually cares? Yeah, you know, I literally do not care. I love that what anyone thinks.

SPEAKER_01 15:09

I love them.

SPEAKER_03 15:13

You're gonna do you.

SPEAKER_04 15:14

I'm gonna do me. You know, and I it's it's it's refreshing to just actually do what you want. You know, people like say, like, I do what I want. That's why I respect like so many athletes who just like have done what they wanted to do.

SPEAKER_01 15:26

Yeah, like they don't talk, they do. Yeah, I'm a huge advocate for that because I hate people that just are all talk. It's like my biggest ick. Like, bro, shut up and just do it then. Like, I don't, I don't even believe you until you do it.

SPEAKER_04 15:39

That's a massive turn off for just people in general.

SPEAKER_01 15:42

Yeah, I feel like you've really set yourself up to be this massive, like big brother role model for an entire sport, which is a really cool thing. And I just want to know, how did you find this voice of yours to take on this role and really like step into this completely terrifying entrepreneur situation where you're like, I want to launch an entire league to help the next generation?

SPEAKER_04 16:11

Yeah, I think it started like as I started to get a little more, you know, people, oh, it's Miles, he's you know, that's why I changed my name to Fencer.

SPEAKER_03 16:19

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 16:19

One people to know, like, yeah, I do fashion and stuff, but like that's my main purpose.

SPEAKER_03 16:22

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 16:23

Um, my Michael Strahan's one of my my mentors always told me, don't mess up your main, which is my sport.

SPEAKER_01 16:28

Michael Strahan is your mentor.

SPEAKER_04 16:30

Yes, my brother. I love him to death. I said my son, my big brother. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I lost a league on Good More in America because of him. No way, yeah, yeah. He's probably the one of the best people in the whole world.

SPEAKER_01 16:40

Oh, that's so cool. I love a man who can like really, really help and support when they have that platform to be able to offer that to people who deserve it. I mean, you're doing amazing things. You deserve to have a platform, you deserve to use your voice. Yeah, so that's really cool that he was able to amplify that for you.

SPEAKER_04 16:55

Yeah, yeah, he's literally incredible. Um, so I'm so grateful for him. But I think like it came from obviously winning, you know, a good amount. And then last Olympics, I was like seeing who I brought to my match, like all my friends are there.

SPEAKER_03 17:08

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 17:09

And I'm like, okay, I can bring a crowd in here. The hard part is how do you get them here? And then I thought about okay, all my athlete, all my teammates, people, you know, still trying to figure themselves out, but there's no like real roadmap post-Olympics, right? There's nothing really to make state income. Yeah, it's really big endorsement based. I'm grateful that I've got, you know, a lot of those. I'm very, very grateful. But it's like the kids coming up, like, what are they gonna do post-college?

SPEAKER_01 17:34

Oh, yeah. I mean, same with gymnastics, right?

SPEAKER_04 17:35

Because 0.001% make the Olympics. And even if you do make the Olympics, say you get a medal, what do you do after you get a medal?

SPEAKER_01 17:41

You can't use that medal to buy a house.

SPEAKER_04 17:43

Exactly, right? And they're gonna tax you on that. Oh, no, they don't tax you on that, whatever. Yeah, but you know, they make billions of dollars off of us, and it's like, how do we figure out a way to make this of an actual ecosystem where the next kids growing up can really funnel in and really like have an end goal? And I was like, why don't I create a league?

SPEAKER_01 18:00

That's sexy.

SPEAKER_04 18:01

And if you're insane, I was like, no, no, like I want to have an actual league where like I want to franchise this model, I don't want to, you know, I want to franchise this model, I wanna so parents, so parents and kids can invest in themselves. And okay, look, mom, there's an actual end goal for me. I can join the you know, the the world fencing league, you know, we can pay these kids, we can find these kids, we can help them get to schools, we can, you know, yeah, we can mentor these kids and to give them an opportunity to just do one thing, which is just fence.

SPEAKER_03 18:25

I love that.

SPEAKER_04 18:26

I want kids to just be able to just fence and have to worry about, oh, I need to I need to go to work, I need to make some money because you can't give 100% in the sport if you have something else to worry about. Yeah right, and I see it so much in the sport where kids can't commit because they have to work a nine to five, which I get it, but how do we really change this? Yeah, and I have a great team, amazing team, Leo Zen, Carl, who've just been incredible.

SPEAKER_01 18:50

And you're with UTA as well. Yeah, they're the best, they're the best, yeah.

SPEAKER_04 18:54

And they've and they're help and they've really been helping me because obviously there's so much stuff in doing outside of this. Yeah, and they're all invested, you know, that you know, they bought some suites and find amazing people. Oh and they're really seeing you know, my own brand, not just me, you know, that's just you know the athlete. I think that's very, very rare. Agencies in it within people, especially if you see me, you're like, oh, he's a fencer. And they're like, oh no, actually, he's completely different. And I think that like me being a fencer was like my like my issue, like detriment. Yeah, but now I was like, that's actually my gift, yeah. Right?

SPEAKER_01 19:26

Because like something that gave you the platform to exactly, yeah.

SPEAKER_04 19:31

And like I never wanted to be like, you know, just a normal statistic. I wanted you know, rather be like an anomaly. And I thought that's like what I was set out to do. That was a bar right there, by the way.

SPEAKER_01 19:40

That is sick.

SPEAKER_04 19:41

Uh but no, but honestly, it was like I was like, I'm gonna do this, and when I'm done this, this you know, journey, these kids will now have a full roadmap and infrastructure to become a professional fencer. That's my and that's gonna happen.

SPEAKER_01 19:54

That's so cool.

SPEAKER_04 19:55

And yeah, April 25th. I can't believe it's so soon.

SPEAKER_01 19:57

It's so soon. Are you freaking out?

SPEAKER_04 20:00

Not really, not yet. Not yet.

SPEAKER_01 20:02

I'll check in on you like three days in advance.

SPEAKER_04 20:04

Yeah, like two and a half weeks, but not yet. But eventually, I think it's gonna hit me. But we have the best fencers in the world competing. Uh, changing the format, changing the rules.

SPEAKER_01 20:14

I'm so excited. I'm coming.

SPEAKER_04 20:15

So I'm about to be locked in. It's gonna be amazing, and it's gonna give an audience a whole new kind of perceptive of the sport because we have new AI blade tracking. No, so it's gonna look like a video game.

SPEAKER_01 20:27

Shut up.

SPEAKER_04 20:28

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 20:29

Oh, this is so sick. I'm so excited to see it. What a cool idea. I mean, did you just have like what sparked all of this inspiration?

SPEAKER_04 20:38

I think I always knew I want to do something like this, but then my boy Sean White created his snow league, and my friend Paul Rabel did the PLO.

SPEAKER_02 20:44

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 20:45

Um, and they were like, dude, you should, you know, I think you could do something really special. And why fencing is very unique, it's because we're global.

SPEAKER_01 20:52

Yeah, absolutely. So we're like, and you have, I mean, is it it's kind of a richer sport, isn't it?

SPEAKER_04 20:57

Yeah, very because it's very expensive. Yes. Like, you know, coaches, equipment, competitions.

SPEAKER_01 21:02

It's kind of like golf. It's like very like high class.

SPEAKER_04 21:06

Yeah. And it's like, how do you get into it? Either your school or your or your parents might have done it. I'm very lucky how kind of how I got into it. But now I want to create like, you know, from the grassroots level, like, how do we get fencing every single middle school, high school, college, incorporate into PE. Yeah, we're trying to get like there's not even a different program at UCLA.

SPEAKER_01 21:25

Oh, yeah, that's not shocking at all.

SPEAKER_04 21:26

You know?

SPEAKER_01 21:27

They're they yeah, they with all the Title IX stuff, it's impossible to get new sports in.

SPEAKER_04 21:31

I'm gonna get it in there.

SPEAKER_01 21:32

I'm here for it. Trust me. I'm so here for it.

SPEAKER_04 21:34

I'm gonna get it in every school. Why not? Like, it's the sickest sport. We're stabbing people for a living.

SPEAKER_01 21:39

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 21:40

You know, legally. But we're sword fighting. Like it's cool. I love basketball, love my friends I play, I love football, but like we're literally sword fighters.

SPEAKER_01 21:47

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 21:48

You know what I mean?

SPEAKER_01 21:49

You're literally like professional superheroes.

SPEAKER_04 21:50

It's sick. Yeah. So I think when people can see it in a different light, then maybe in CAA and the schools would be like, okay, we understand what it can bring. So that's my goal.

SPEAKER_01 22:01

It's essentially a rebrand, is what you're doing. You're putting your cool, trendy spin on it.

SPEAKER_04 22:07

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 22:07

But it's a rebrand.

SPEAKER_04 22:08

For sure. And it's not just for me. Like it's for the kids coming up and the kids currently doing it.

SPEAKER_01 22:14

Oh, I think we know it's not just for you. I know that you're the vessel that's gonna take the ship forward, but also like you're everything you've said already is like your purpose is for the next generation. And that is that is why I started this podcast. I mean, I cannot relate more to that because I think when you have your purpose rooted in yourself, like it only goes so far, and then you feel like you're lost. So to be able to have an outside inspiration and to have something that's really pushing you and inspiring you every day that's outside yourself is just like one is a huge testament to who you are and your character, but also it's gonna carry and it's gonna happen.

SPEAKER_04 22:52

Exactly. And I'm sure like for you when you keep it in your whole life, since I'm sure you're a little, you know, a little kid, yeah, and then you're done. And your identity is like, well, what do I do? And that's be scary. Scary as shit, you know, and I'm like, you know, I'm gonna have to, you know, hang up the mask.

SPEAKER_01 23:08

You're gonna have that time, yeah.

SPEAKER_04 23:10

But I know like that I've done everything in the sport that I wanted to do, and now I'm doing something completely different, but I want to like not just you know finish my career and be like, sit my hands, but what's next? Because that's that's how you lose your mind. So um, I'm trying to like create the system so when I'm you know easing out of the sport.

SPEAKER_01 23:28

It's a smooth transition.

SPEAKER_04 23:29

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 23:30

I mean, I was gonna say, I feel like you've already done a phenomenal job of doing that. I think the transition out would actually be a lot smoother than you would think because you've I you've developed your identity outside of your sport so much. Like you have so many other masks that you wear. You, you know, you're the model, you're the content creator, you're the are do you do public speaking?

SPEAKER_04 23:50

Like, yeah, then a couple of those.

SPEAKER_01 23:52

See, like I could see you doing a lot more. You've developed your brand so much outside of fencing. Obviously, fencing is the main core thing, and that's the pillar, and then everything else kind of circles around it. But you have, I feel like, inspired a shitload of professional athletes to do something very similar.

unknown 24:11

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 24:11

And to kind of be a trailblazer in their sport because it's gonna save your ass in the long run when you do have those moments of okay, like, do I have to stay in a sport because I have nothing else, or can I hang up the mask because I'm excited for my life outside of this?

SPEAKER_04 24:28

Yeah, exactly, which is a massive difference.

SPEAKER_01 24:29

Huge difference.

SPEAKER_04 24:30

So exact and that's like it's crazy to think like I've been doing it since I was like 10 or 11, I forget the age.

SPEAKER_02 24:36

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 24:37

Um, and to be doing it for you know, this long, and then now I'm like, oh, what's next? You know, but I'm grateful that I have a lot of things that I'm doing. Yeah. So like it's a healthy distraction, I call it for now.

SPEAKER_01 24:49

For sure. I mean, the World Fencing League is gonna be a very healthy distraction. Yeah, it's probably got you very busy.

SPEAKER_04 24:56

It's I mean, it's so I'm on I'm on all the calls, I'm on all the meetings. I'm very grateful. My team's incredible.

SPEAKER_01 25:02

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_04 25:02

Like incredible, but it is a lot of work.

unknown 25:05

Absolutely.

SPEAKER_04 25:06

Like it is so much work.

SPEAKER_01 25:07

What's been the hardest part about creating an entire league?

SPEAKER_04 25:12

I mean, I think just from ideation to an actual execution, yeah. Like an actual when you I think probably getting the venue. And we're at the shrine.

SPEAKER_01 25:23

I was gonna ask, where is it at?

SPEAKER_04 25:24

At the shrine, which we had the side after the old Oscar.

SPEAKER_01 25:27

It's so epic.

SPEAKER_04 25:28

It's a it's a crazy big deal. Yeah. So I'm not having a little this is gonna be It's not a soft launch. No, this is we're making a statement here.

SPEAKER_01 25:39

Let's go. How many people do you think are gonna come?

SPEAKER_04 25:44

I mean, I think we're I think we already sold a thousand tickets.

SPEAKER_01 25:47

Wow. Holy shit.

SPEAKER_04 25:49

Uh this is increasing crazy. Um, but yeah, I mean, hopefully we've sold it out. My goal is to sell that out. I think we're getting pretty close.

SPEAKER_02 26:00

Let's go.

SPEAKER_04 26:01

Um that's huge. Yeah, I just want these also I want all the athletes to be known as stars. So I want them all to, you know, everybody to see them, you know, everyone in Hollywood, everybody in other sports, to to fashion that we will be there as well. So it's it's also to give eyes for everybody else, you know, as well. But yeah, it's nuts.

SPEAKER_01 26:19

I mean, I could see it turning into kind of like uh a tennis or a golf where it's yeah, it's still extremely respected. There's tons of people that want to go and be spectators, yeah, but it has this like cool classy vibe to it, yeah, and this like elite level of respect.

SPEAKER_04 26:38

Yeah, and we have Densu as our tech partner, and then crazy thing is RWS is putting our event on, and they do the last five Olympics.

SPEAKER_01 26:47

Get out. I gotta know your plug, I gotta know all your networks because that's crazy work.

SPEAKER_04 26:54

Yeah, and it's you know, from they did the last Olympics in Paris when we walked down the Grand Palais and did all that stuff. So, like, if you're gonna do this, you can't, and it's expensive, and you can't skim anything because it's like from you know when the athletes walk in to all the production to the music, um, it it's so important to me. So, like I want it to be, you know, incredible. So from from the from the drinks to the you know every little detail is merch is fire to you have merch? Yeah, well, could you think this is love? Come on, it's not this, it's not that okay. I mean the hats maybe, but we have some crazy merch.

SPEAKER_01 27:31

Oh, I'm excited.

SPEAKER_04 27:32

But I think it's so cool when you go somewhere and like, oh, I got the you know, yeah, absolutely.

SPEAKER_01 27:35

So yeah, you're creating an experience, you're not just creating a you know, a sport.

SPEAKER_04 27:40

I want people to be like, oh wow, this is really sick. Absolutely. You know, like our fencing matches take eight hours.

SPEAKER_01 27:45

No way.

SPEAKER_04 27:46

From your first match could be 9 a.m. and the finals could be 6 p.m.

SPEAKER_01 27:50

Oh my god.

SPEAKER_04 27:51

Which is you can't have people who's gonna stick around for that. You have a mom who loves me to death. She's like, I'll see you a little bit.

SPEAKER_01 27:56

I'm tired, yeah.

SPEAKER_04 27:56

You know, so we've condensed that into like I think it's an hour of actually just fencing.

SPEAKER_01 28:00

What's the difference between how you used to do it but now how you want to do it?

SPEAKER_04 28:04

So normally it would be 15 points. Okay. Um, that could be anywhere from 10 minutes to 40 minutes, depending on type of fencer. So now we're going on just time.

SPEAKER_01 28:14

Okay.

SPEAKER_04 28:15

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 28:16

And so however many hits you can get in the time frame, I mean, that makes more sense.

SPEAKER_04 28:20

Yeah, and it's it's more exciting to watch. Yeah, and it's clean time. So it's 10 minutes to 10 minutes. Love. Normally it's three minutes, but it's not clean time. So you're starting and stopping the clock, which, you know, and like for fans and for TV, for you can't keep someone's attention that long.

SPEAKER_01 28:33

No.

SPEAKER_04 28:33

Only sport that can kind of do it is tennis.

SPEAKER_01 28:35

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 28:36

And golf. I guess.

SPEAKER_01 28:38

But that's only because you don't know when it's gonna end. But if you know that there's a goal and a set number, then it's not as exciting.

SPEAKER_04 28:45

Exactly. And we have teams now, there's team shield versus team blade.

SPEAKER_01 28:49

Oh, yeah.

SPEAKER_04 28:49

And then there's, you know, we got men and women on the same team.

SPEAKER_01 28:51

I heard that there's men and women on the same team, which I love.

SPEAKER_04 28:54

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 28:55

Shout out to the ladies, shout out to the girlies.

SPEAKER_04 28:57

Yeah, I think, I mean, they're you know, obviously, they didn't, you know, it's not like they were like, hey, I'm I'm a woman, I can't do men. Obviously, but it's gonna be women against women, yeah. But they're on the same team as us. And I think it just shows that like, you know, we're just as equal, just as good.

SPEAKER_01 29:09

I love that.

SPEAKER_04 29:10

And a point is a point.

SPEAKER_01 29:11

Absolutely.

SPEAKER_04 29:12

So I think that's very unique. Um, and we have some team captains.

SPEAKER_01 29:15

I hope more people start doing that, actually.

SPEAKER_04 29:17

Yeah, I mean, yeah, why not?

SPEAKER_01 29:20

I don't see why not.

SPEAKER_04 29:22

So, yeah, that's really, really cool. That's very, very unique and very rare. So that's exciting. And then we have team captains.

SPEAKER_01 29:28

Awesome.

SPEAKER_04 29:28

We'll be down so soon.

SPEAKER_01 29:30

Are you competing?

SPEAKER_04 29:31

And I am competing.

SPEAKER_01 29:32

No, you're not.

SPEAKER_04 29:33

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 29:34

Oh my gosh, what team were you on?

SPEAKER_04 29:36

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 29:38

You don't know yet?

SPEAKER_04 29:39

She knows. She knows.

SPEAKER_01 29:41

Well, just stay tuned. I'm excited.

SPEAKER_04 29:43

I am the last match.

SPEAKER_01 29:45

Oh shit. Finale.

SPEAKER_04 29:48

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 29:50

Oh, that's so exciting. When was the last time you competed?

SPEAKER_04 29:54

Uh two weeks ago.

SPEAKER_01 29:55

Oh, okay.

SPEAKER_04 29:57

Two weeks ago.

SPEAKER_01 29:57

So you're in season.

SPEAKER_04 29:58

Yeah. Okay. I'm supposed to be going to Egypt next week, but I mean the world's not the best place. So we'll just see if that happens. Um but yeah, we compete probably every three weeks.

SPEAKER_01 30:10

Okay.

SPEAKER_04 30:12

Two and all three weeks, depending.

SPEAKER_01 30:13

How long does your season last?

SPEAKER_04 30:14

It's too long. It's from October to July. June July.

SPEAKER_01 30:19

What?

SPEAKER_04 30:21

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 30:21

Ours was January to April.

SPEAKER_04 30:24

Yeah, which is like normal. You go.

SPEAKER_01 30:26

It's like what, three to four months?

SPEAKER_04 30:28

So we're trying to condense it. Change that.

SPEAKER_01 30:31

Yeah, that's insane.

SPEAKER_04 30:32

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 30:32

It also just sucks for you because you do have so many other obligations and responsibilities outside of your sport.

SPEAKER_04 30:38

There's so many I'm trying to juggle right now. There's like a billion have to fly in, fly out, and do this and that and that.

SPEAKER_01 30:43

How do you manage it? Like, how's your mental health?

SPEAKER_04 30:46

Shout out to Ali Wall, my manager.

SPEAKER_01 30:48

Aww.

SPEAKER_04 30:49

Uh I'm honestly, thank God. I'm I'm my mental game is really strong. I'm also like, I got amazing best friends. We talk about emotions.

SPEAKER_00 30:57

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 30:58

Like there's I'm pretty amazing. Because I think I'm open.

SPEAKER_01 31:03

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 31:04

You know, and I think that's that's the difference.

SPEAKER_01 31:05

And your team knows if you're struggling with something or if you're feeling overwhelmed or whatever.

SPEAKER_04 31:10

Yeah. I'm good on on you know, I've got big shoulders, so I can, you know, I can I can handle a lot. Well, you know, I'm good, honestly. Like, if I'm ever feelings, I might as well talk to my boys. I think that's the key, is that we're open. How are you feeling? How's everything?

SPEAKER_01 31:24

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 31:25

Um, and I think that gets you through everything.

SPEAKER_01 31:27

I think absolutely. I mean, that's such an inspiration too for people to really learn. Like, look at like you're the epitome of vulnerability and you can handle it because you know how to communicate your feelings, especially with people like your team. Because these people are relying on you. And if they don't know where you're at mentally, they're gonna get blindsided, you're gonna crash out, you're gonna, you know, you're gonna have a bad ending, and it's like we can't have that. So good for you to be so mentally and emotionally checked in.

SPEAKER_04 31:54

Yeah, checking in with the boys is important.

SPEAKER_01 31:55

Absolutely.

SPEAKER_04 31:56

I don't understand how people such a weird taboo. I don't, I don't understand it. Obviously, yeah, I do get it because growing up, it was like, you know, you're a man, and that's it.

SPEAKER_03 32:07

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 32:07

But the world got crazier, things started changing, social media starts changing, start to read a lot of things, read comments, they get into your head. I don't I have this really good thing where like nothing actually that someone says actually bothers me.

SPEAKER_01 32:22

I kind of have that too now.

SPEAKER_04 32:24

I actually like it doesn't even come.

SPEAKER_01 32:27

It took a while to see you. Exactly. It took a while for me because I'm like, I feel like as a girl, I'm a little bit more like sensitive to specific things.

SPEAKER_04 32:37

It's tougher for a woman because they can go after your weight, your look. It's yeah.

SPEAKER_01 32:41

They go after like weird, yeah. And I think like as a woman too, it's a lot harder to develop confidence in yourself outside of your looks because everyone just makes comments about your looks all the time, and they put so much value in that. But like the second I developed like my identity outside of I'm just a pretty girl or I'm just whatever, I feel like it's like that shit doesn't even matter to me. So you can call me fat or you want, but like I know I'm we snatched us, that it's not even that to people.

SPEAKER_04 33:10

Yeah, I don't think I think you're right on that.

SPEAKER_01 33:12

It's also like, what does that say about you versus me? It's just like it's not even people are just jealous, man. People are just sad. It makes me sad, honestly. I'm like, I'm sad for you that that's how you cope with your sad life.

SPEAKER_04 33:27

Yeah, I mean, that's to attack others. It's crazy, and you know, the bigger you get, the more it comes, right? So you have to just prepare for the worst. And you know, you really need thick skin.

SPEAKER_01 33:37

Yeah, you know, I mean, and you also have a phenomenal community of people that keep you grounded, an amazing support system. Like you can always tell by the individual, like if they have a solid support system.

SPEAKER_04 33:49

Yeah, my boys keep me in check. Yeah, but they don't they're like, yo, get this shit for me, bruv. I'm like, all right, you know, but like that's what you want.

SPEAKER_01 33:56

Well, yeah, because otherwise your head's not gonna fit through this door.

SPEAKER_04 33:59

I don't care what your name is, I don't care, you're my boy. Yeah, and that's that's the most important thing. I think that's so important. Yeah, having great friends around you is it's free therapy. And I've never been to therapy, but those are my boys, so like I'm lucky, you know.

SPEAKER_01 34:12

Yeah, are they coming to the match?

SPEAKER_04 34:14

Yeah, everyone's coming.

SPEAKER_01 34:15

Let's go.

SPEAKER_04 34:16

And they're all busy and they're all making time, and that means so much to me.

SPEAKER_01 34:19

Absolutely.

SPEAKER_04 34:20

Because I don't lost the favorites from anybody, never had, never will. But they realize like this is he's doing something big. So, like, yeah, they've got everybody's coming. Aww. That's what I'm gonna say.

SPEAKER_01 34:30

I think what's cool too is that because you exude this passion for what you're doing, it's really hard not to hop on it.

SPEAKER_00 34:37

Thank you.

SPEAKER_01 34:38

And like that's kind of what I've noticed with even launching this podcast because I'm so fired up about it and it's something I'm so passionate about. Like, my team immediately bought in. And like my entire support system bought in. Like, we had, you know, a branded event with berries, and we I had 50 of my close friends like come work out with me on the beach to like celebrate the launch. And I literally was like, holy shit, pinch me. I can't believe 50 of my friends came to support this like little thing that I'm doing that I'm just super passionate about. And to me, it was a passion project, and it kind of exploded into this bigger thing. But I truly believe like if passion is is where you're rooted, you can truly take on whatever you want.

SPEAKER_04 35:16

Yeah, you you're also very genuine though.

SPEAKER_01 35:19

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 35:19

You know, always, you know, and I think that that obviously goes a long way. Yeah, and Jojo's naturally good at it.

SPEAKER_01 35:25

Thank you.

SPEAKER_04 35:26

I forgot we're even having a podcast right now.

SPEAKER_01 35:28

I know.

SPEAKER_04 35:29

I mean, it was.

SPEAKER_01 35:29

Well, what do you mean? We're just hanging out.

SPEAKER_04 35:31

We're just having a chat. Yeah. You know? That's the difference. And that's why, you know. And congrats to you as well.

SPEAKER_01 35:36

Thank you.

SPEAKER_04 35:36

Give your flowers, you're crushing it.

SPEAKER_01 35:38

Thank you so much. I'm really excited to see your project come to fruition.

SPEAKER_04 35:42

It's gonna be mad.

SPEAKER_01 35:44

Oh, I'm gonna vlog.

SPEAKER_04 35:45

Yeah, come. Oh, yeah. Do the whole thing. We're making content. Don't worry. There'll be some the mother, yeah. There'll be some other matches.

SPEAKER_01 35:50

I've never been to a fencing match, so there'll be one like this before.

SPEAKER_04 35:54

Nobody has.

SPEAKER_01 35:55

It's gonna be so epic.

SPEAKER_04 35:56

Yeah, this is this is gonna be. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 36:03

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 36:03

I don't want to say too much.

SPEAKER_01 36:04

Okay. He's he's keeping his cards close to his chest. So obviously the World Fencing League is going to be the rebrand of what fencing used to be. That's the goal.

SPEAKER_00 36:17

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 36:18

What is maybe what you think is the goal for the next five to ten years of your sport? What do you want the next five to ten years of your sport to look like?

SPEAKER_04 36:28

I want fencing on ESPN.

SPEAKER_01 36:30

Period. It should be. I'm surprised it's not.

SPEAKER_04 36:33

It'll be on there when I'm done with that.

SPEAKER_01 36:34

It'll be on there.

SPEAKER_04 36:36

Um, I want them all to be professionals, I want to all make a very good salary. And I want it to be an infrastructure where they are the they are given the opportunity to to thrive. And I think it comes from venues, locations, fans. I think when you go to a competition and there's not much fans, it changes the energy.

SPEAKER_03 36:56

Absolutely.

SPEAKER_04 36:57

Right? So I think if we can kind of create this infrastructure where there's thousands of fans at tournaments, I mean, I think naturally you just work harder. You want to be there, you wanna, you know, I think that's the difference. And I think creating a new audience and then having fencing on you know global uh TV is where I see the sport. And there's so much. I mean, yeah, something I'm working on right now. But I think that those two being on ESPN or being on you know ABC and being on on a national big TV show, not TV show, TV channel, yeah. And having these athletes receiving a very good salary, those are my two big things. Because I think once you solve those two, then we'll get more kids in it, you're good.

SPEAKER_03 37:43

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 37:44

You know, my goal is to get a million kids fencing. Uh, and I think those are the two things I'm working on with my team. And there's creating a roadmap where they enjoy going to competitions.

SPEAKER_03 37:54

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 37:54

I think I think when they're like, oh sick, you know, that's the biggest takeaway is I've been doing this for years, I've been on, you know, all my all the teams, a little success. But there's some competitions you go to and you're like, Yeah. You know, and it's like, I don't sound ungrateful, but I I sometimes I'm like, wow, what if we could move this here?

SPEAKER_02 38:13

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 38:14

Or, you know, do this you know a different way. I think it's I think it's just, yeah, those are my kind of biggest things to tackle.

SPEAKER_01 38:22

I mean, I don't think there's anything wrong or anything ungrateful about seeing an infrastructure and thinking that it needs to change.

SPEAKER_00 38:29

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 38:29

I think if anything that proves even more passion and more gratitude that you have for the sport. Because if you didn't give a shit, you wouldn't do anything about it.

SPEAKER_04 38:38

Yeah, exactly. I guess but all right, good luck.

SPEAKER_01 38:40

Yeah. T7, Girl Scout, I'm done. I'm just gonna go roll in my millions of dollars for all these brand deals. Like, the fuck? You know what I mean? It's just like you're not leaving them out to dry. Like you're you're putting, you're devoting your life to setting up others.

SPEAKER_04 38:55

Yeah, and the sport gave me everything. Yeah, like I would not be in the man I am without the sport fencing, a hundred percent. So, like, I feel like I owe it to the sport.

SPEAKER_01 39:05

That's how I feel too with my sport.

SPEAKER_04 39:06

Yeah, it's like it's given me everything. I've been able to see the world, I went to Asia for the first time. Yeah, I went to, you know, and it's it's given me so much. So I think I have to give back to the next generation. And it's just so lovely to see kids smile. Like, I was at my fencing club in New York, I was shooting something really cool, and I surprised some little kids and fenced with them like eight-year-old kids.

SPEAKER_02 39:30

Oh my god.

SPEAKER_04 39:31

It's cute because I'm like, yo, in 20 years, or not even 20 years, in 15 years, it might be an Olympian, you know? Those are the memories special for me as well. I think that just makes you human. Yeah, I don't get people who change because of fame.

SPEAKER_01 39:44

I I don't I just don't I don't understand that either. I don't understand that we all we're all gonna die at the end of the day. Like no one's actually that big of a deal.

SPEAKER_04 39:53

It makes no sense, yeah. Just be a good person. Exactly. When we meet someone who is famous and who is a good person, you're like, okay, yeah, you deserve all of it, you know?

SPEAKER_01 40:02

And I think what's so cool is that you're taking your experience that you had with Kobe and you're replicating that because it was such imagine if he was an asshole. You know what I mean? It's like you can't help but think like how much your life and trajectory would have changed if like that one simple interaction went differently.

SPEAKER_00 40:20

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 40:20

And I think I think about that all the time too, with just like one time I was at my gymnastics alumni meet, a bunch of girls were screaming my name. And so I like waved them and took a video and put on my story. And a girl asked me, like, do you do that with all your fans? In kind of like an interesting tone. And I was like, Yeah. Like if it takes me 20 seconds to make someone's year, to make someone's day, I'm gonna fucking do it.

SPEAKER_04 40:45

Yeah, why not?

SPEAKER_01 40:46

It's a no-brainer. Yeah, why would I not? And if anything, it like just makes me even happier to be able to have that platform and that opportunity to give back and make someone's day. Like, how incredible is that that we have the power to do that?

SPEAKER_00 40:58

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 40:59

And if like we're not utilizing that power, it's just a missed opportunity. Like, yeah, you made the wrong one famous.

SPEAKER_04 41:04

Yeah, yeah, exactly. Yeah, and it's like parents, oh, you're so nice to kids. I'm like, I didn't even think about it like that.

SPEAKER_01 41:10

No, you know, it's why would I not be second nature?

SPEAKER_04 41:13

Yeah, so yeah, it's awesome, it's a blessing.

SPEAKER_01 41:16

Oh, I love that. Well, I want to get into a little segment I do here on the show called Dear Athlete, and it's an opportunity for us to kind of share our wisdom and give advice to the younger generation. I love it. Which I feel like is very on brand for you, since you love helping the young ones.

SPEAKER_00 41:32

I love that.

SPEAKER_01 41:33

Um, first one is what's one piece of advice you would give young athletes who feel different or like they don't belong?

SPEAKER_04 41:41

That A, you do belong, and that you being different is actually your strength and that's your gift. I think that's what I realized pretty young that like that's actually your gift, and people are so, you know, when they're oh you're ADD, ADHD, you're like, no, that's actually you're a special human being. So I think and I honestly really believe like if you truly, truly, truly believe in yourself, yeah, like deep down inside, know that on some confidence, right? On some preparation, then you really will become the the man or the woman that you want to be for the future. And I think that is so important. There's always things you can do, like, yeah, but just confidence and self-belief are the most important things. Yeah. Right. And it's like somebody can be like, oh, you're you know, what's about you know your skin colour, your shoes are stupid, right? It's like, okay. But if you truly know that I'm the best, it it just prepares you for just you know anything.

SPEAKER_00 42:39

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 42:40

So I think that's like what I would tell people, kids, little kids, is just like just believe in yourself, instill that into you since you're five years old. You know, wake up in the morning and say, I am the best.

SPEAKER_03 42:50

I love that.

SPEAKER_04 42:50

Look in that little mirror, positive self-talk, you know, because that's more public. Yeah, you know, you're like, I'm the best. It's not coke, it's just saying, I'm the best.

SPEAKER_01 42:57

I'm the best. I'm the best version of myself as well. Like, there's no one that's ever gonna be like me. No, and I think knowing that is one of the most empowering feelings as well. Like, you're literally a snowflake. Yeah, not one other person has been cloned to be like you, and that's your super, that's it, that's your superpower.

SPEAKER_04 43:15

100%.

SPEAKER_01 43:15

And yeah, I could not agree more. I mean, that was something I was gonna say as well. It's just like being unique, especially in this day and age, is a strength. Yeah, it sets you apart, it helps you stand out. I mean, look at you, like you've leaned into it, you've dyed your hair, you've gotten tab twos, like you've leaned into the uniqueness that is you and you've been authentically yourself from day one. And all that's gonna do is continue to inspire people to do the exact same thing. And I really, really hope that people see people like you and all they feel is just pure inspiration to be authentically themselves.

SPEAKER_04 43:51

I hope so.

SPEAKER_01 43:52

I think you did a great job. So yeah.

SPEAKER_04 43:57

Simple as that.

SPEAKER_01 43:58

I love it. All right. Second one is what's one thing you wish you learned sooner?

SPEAKER_04 44:04

Those are good asked questions. I wish I learned sooner.

SPEAKER_01 44:11

I can go first if you want.

SPEAKER_04 44:12

Yeah, yeah, ladies first.

SPEAKER_01 44:14

Okay. Um, I would say love yourself no matter what. Self-love will always get you through.

SPEAKER_00 44:22

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 44:22

Kind of like piggybacking on the last question, but also just recognizing like no one will love yourself more than you. And it's your responsibility to pick yourself up and dust yourself off because life's gonna kick you down and life is gonna get complicated and messy. And if you can't sit with yourself and be proud of who you are, it's gonna be a really tough route to get through.

SPEAKER_04 44:46

Yeah, great, great answer. Thank you. I will probably say that your uniqueness and you being different sets you apart from everybody that's the same.

SPEAKER_01 44:58

Love it. Why would you want to be like everybody else? It's so boring.

SPEAKER_04 45:02

People are scared to be themselves. That's scared.

SPEAKER_01 45:05

But it's exhausting. Have you ever tried being someone you're not?

SPEAKER_04 45:08

Never.

SPEAKER_01 45:09

Oh my god.

SPEAKER_04 45:09

I don't even like.

SPEAKER_01 45:10

I couldn't even do, I couldn't even, I tried to get into stunts and it was like acting in stunts and stuff, and I tried, and I'm like, I can't even be this like version that they want me to be. Like I just I can't be anything but myself. It's just exhausting.

SPEAKER_04 45:24

I never did.

SPEAKER_01 45:25

Or like ever, I mean, have you ever done a brand deal where they're like they script you or something and they have you to act like no, you you're like, no, absolutely not.

SPEAKER_04 45:31

What's crazy? I turn down so much because they try to put you in a box. It's not me.

SPEAKER_01 45:37

I love it.

SPEAKER_04 45:38

And my team's like, Miles, this is a lot of money. And I'm like, I don't care.

SPEAKER_01 45:42

It's not worth abandoning yourself.

SPEAKER_04 45:44

When everyone was when I wasn't making like crazy money, I would be like, damn, I could use this now.

SPEAKER_01 45:49

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 45:49

But I just know. I don't do one-offs, I don't do because it just limits like who you are. Yeah. You know, and I've I'm sure I have done something in the past. I'm missing for sure. But I try my best not to ever do those because it just makes me feel, you know?

SPEAKER_03 46:05

Yeah, a little cringed out.

SPEAKER_04 46:06

I'm like, and then just feel like they bought you for this. And I'm like, what am I doing? Like a gummy bear in my hand, you know? You know? Unless the Harry Bell, because I love sweets. Yeah, we love Harry Bell. I love sweets. Yeah. Yeah, probably that.

SPEAKER_01 46:18

I mean, at the end of the day, too, what you're essentially telling your audience and the brand that's buying you is like you don't like who I already am, and I'm okay with that. Like I that can be bought. And I think at the end of the day, like that sucks. That's a hard pill to swallow that you're willing to abandon yourself for a check.

SPEAKER_04 46:37

Yeah, true. It really is.

SPEAKER_01 46:39

It has a ripple effect.

SPEAKER_04 46:40

Who just do things for the check, and it's like, yeah. Are you even at who are you?

SPEAKER_02 46:44

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 46:45

Because every every brand that I've been with has been with me since day one, and I've been with them the whole time. Yeah. Reshotville, Nike, Mercedes-Benz, like always.

SPEAKER_01 46:53

And I'm like, they're brands that you know and love.

SPEAKER_04 46:55

Yeah, but they invested in me.

SPEAKER_01 46:57

Yeah. Me.

SPEAKER_04 46:57

And then I'm invested in them because they have supported me. And it's like we're family.

SPEAKER_01 47:01

Yeah, you've created that bond now that's forever. Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 47:05

Like I'm not going anywhere. You know, and then I'll go anywhere, hopefully.

SPEAKER_01 47:08

And that's rare as hell, too. Like, that's really impressive that you're able to pull that off because as a content creator who's been in this world now for three years, like it's a it's tough to do. Not a lot of people very hard. Are willing to invest in the human first.

SPEAKER_00 47:23

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 47:24

Because all they see are numbers, and it's such a saturated market now that the fact that they've invested in you as a person and they see your vision and they want to make it come to life is really special.

SPEAKER_04 47:34

Yeah, they're incredible. Like I got my, you know, I got my first Nike shoe.

SPEAKER_01 47:38

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 47:38

Um, we'll get you one, which is like, you know, you never know.

SPEAKER_01 47:40

It's gonna match my outfit.

SPEAKER_04 47:41

Yeah, pink blue swing is my favorite colour. And same.

SPEAKER_01 47:45

Yes, the best colour.

SPEAKER_04 47:46

And it's winning. And I was like, I couldn't imagine that they were like, no, you're gonna be able to do this. And I was like, like, yeah, well, you're not a fencer to us.

SPEAKER_02 47:54

You're yeah, you're miles.

SPEAKER_04 47:56

So I think that was once again, like that was my gift. It's like I'm not a boss player, I'm not a football player. Um you're wearing a fencer shoe. That's a crazy concept to even think about, you know.

SPEAKER_01 48:07

That is really wild.

SPEAKER_04 48:08

So I'm so grateful for them. I love them to death. I love everyone that I work with because it's it's family.

SPEAKER_01 48:12

And imagine if they shot down your ideas. You know what I mean? Like it's truly like it's so important who you surround yourself with because those delusional ideas that you throw out there, if someone doesn't take it and run with it and they shoot it down, it's like it they are big names and they are big brands that you're like, you do have to take their opinion. Obviously, like you said, you don't really care what people think, but like to have an entire support system behind you backing it is huge.

SPEAKER_04 48:36

I'm so grateful for them.

SPEAKER_01 48:37

Yeah, that's massive.

SPEAKER_04 48:38

Beyond.

SPEAKER_01 48:39

All right, last one. What is something you think every athlete should be doing to help build their personal brand since you've done such a phenomenal job at that?

SPEAKER_04 48:47

Figuring out exactly who I am and exactly what I want. And nothing in between matters until you get to the end.

SPEAKER_01 48:56

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 48:56

That made any sense.

SPEAKER_01 48:58

No, no, that makes sense for sure. I mean, that's how I I always voice it as well. And being your most authentic self online, yeah, when you are trying to build a brand and you're trying to work with, like you said, brands that actually align with you and your values and your beliefs, and just continuing to be that genuine version of yourself because it will burn you out if you try to be something that you're not. Yeah, it will feel like a job, it will feel like a chore. And I think when you want to take a brand as far as you have, or maybe even I have, I feel like I would not be able to do this job if I was being something else. I'd be fucking tired.

SPEAKER_04 49:35

Yeah, it's exhausting.

SPEAKER_01 49:36

The girl would be cashed out. Like I'd be done. Knowing who you are is obviously number one, and then being able to emulate that online with brands in commercials, whatever it is. Um, but I do think social media is one of the biggest assets for athletes now to be able to utilize that viral moment to be able to put yourself on a big stage that like something like you, you know, you're not even on ESPN yet. So it's like utilize TikTok, utilize Instagram, get yourself out there, get the sport out there. And I think creating those viral moments is what's really gonna launch the sport into a whole different stratosphere.

SPEAKER_04 50:17

100%. And I think like that's your gifts, right? As if mom relevant every four years per se, because you look at this. Now you're relevant every day if you want.

SPEAKER_01 50:24

Absolutely.

SPEAKER_04 50:24

So it's like just honestly, people are invested now, yeah. And it's like just be yourself, and like Anthony Edwards is a great example of a bustle player. He is so funny, but he's himself.

SPEAKER_03 50:35

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 50:35

I watched the thing with him when and um President Obama, and he's just like the same he would be with his boy, the president. And I'm like, he's iconic. Yeah, but I'm like, that's just don't like him because he's truly doesn't care who's in front of, but he's a lovely, he seems like a lovely person, and he's just himself. So I think that I would say back to your last question was just find out who you are and don't lose sight of who you are along the journey. Yeah, that's it.

SPEAKER_03 51:02

That's huge.

SPEAKER_04 51:03

That's that's I would probably say, yeah, that's it. And it's okay to be scared to do something. That's being scared's actually kind of fun.

SPEAKER_01 51:09

I think it's important.

SPEAKER_04 51:10

I think it's quite fun.

SPEAKER_01 51:11

It means you're doing something purposeful, yeah.

SPEAKER_04 51:12

And you and then once you get over that that hump, right? You're like, what's I scared of? You know, and I think fear is something that people are so scared to address, right? But it's just you'll just something new for the first time. Just try. You know, do it. You're like, oh, what was I scared of?

SPEAKER_01 51:28

No, literally, you know, like it really wasn't that deep.

SPEAKER_04 51:31

No, it really wasn't at all.

SPEAKER_01 51:32

We always build it up to be way bigger than it is, too.

SPEAKER_04 51:34

So yeah, it's just fear.

SPEAKER_01 51:36

Yeah, that's it.

SPEAKER_04 51:37

It's not that deep, not deep at all.

SPEAKER_01 51:39

And you get stabbed for a living, so you can trust that man knows something about fear.

SPEAKER_04 51:44

I'm not, I'm not, I'm not scared of much. I just don't like cockroaches. They terrify me. And you lived in New York, and they jump and shit, yeah. Oh no, yeah, that's the only thing I don't like.

SPEAKER_01 51:54

That's like being scared of spiders and living in Australia.

SPEAKER_04 51:56

Well, yeah, me and my best friend in Australia, and when we were in Byron Bay, and I opened the room and there's like a just black spider sprints across the room. I was like, bro, I'm not sleeping until I find this guy.

SPEAKER_01 52:06

No, yeah, no, I'm done. I'm burning the whole place down.

SPEAKER_04 52:09

I found it, but then you can't kill it, because then they come back with the whole the whole mandem and then have a potty in your room. So I got it into a cup and we took it outside. I don't like bugs.

SPEAKER_01 52:19

No, I don't like bugs either.

SPEAKER_04 52:20

And mosquitoes, they're just the worst people in the whole world. Why are they even here?

SPEAKER_01 52:24

I don't know. They even serve a purpose, they're here causing problems.

SPEAKER_04 52:27

Do they serve a purpose, mosquitoes?

SPEAKER_01 52:28

I don't think so. Ew, yeah.

SPEAKER_04 52:33

Just completely digress to insects and shit.

unknown 52:37

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 52:37

I'm so dead. Well, I have nothing left for you. I just want to know if there's anything else you want to say while we have you here.

SPEAKER_04 52:44

It was a pleasure.

SPEAKER_01 52:45

It was a pleasure.

SPEAKER_04 52:46

A lot of fun. Congrats on your success.

SPEAKER_01 52:48

Thank you, you too.

SPEAKER_04 52:49

And um, I'll see you April 25th.

SPEAKER_01 52:52

I will see you April 25th. I will see all of you guys April 25th. You better be there.

SPEAKER_04 52:57

Yeah, it's gonna be awesome. We sell some tickets available, I think.

SPEAKER_01 52:59

So get them. All right, get them before they're gone. It's gonna be a show. Awesome.

SPEAKER_04 53:06

A new face for the sport, so I'm excited. Thank you.

SPEAKER_01 53:08

Yay, thank you guys so much. I will see you next Wednesday. Yay! We're done.

SPEAKER_04 53:19

That was so pleasure. That was easy. Yeah, I know it's so easy.

SPEAKER_01 53:24

Thank you.

SPEAKER_04 53:24

You're so easy to talk to.

SPEAKER_01 53:28

You're so easy to talk to. I know. So you asked me why I I don't wear shoes. It's because literally, when I sit, my feet don't touch the ground.

SPEAKER_04 53:36

And then there's you. How told are you?

SPEAKER_01 53:39

Five two? But my legs are really short.