Gracie & Michael on Olympic Swimming, Redefining Success, & the Road to 2028

In this episode of Athletes After Hours, I sit down with Michael Andrew to talk all things swimming, identity, and what it really means to chase greatness at the highest level. We get into the heartbreak of missing the Olympics by a tenth of a second, the mental resilience it takes to come back from moments like that, and how he’s learned to separate who he is from what he does in the pool. Michael opens up about training with his family, expanding his brand, and navigating the pressure that comes with being one of the most talked-about athletes in the sport. We also dive into his mindset heading into the 2028 Olympics and what’s fueling this next chapter of his career. It was so powerful getting to know Michael beyond the headlines, connect on the highs and lows of elite sport, and just have a real, honest conversation about what this journey actually looks like. I really hope you enjoy this episode, and I’ll see you next Wednesday!

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Transcript

SPEAKER_08 0:00

I've missed the Paris team by a tenth of a second. No, but hectic, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 0:04

So they they pulled sponsorships.

SPEAKER_08 0:05

Oh yeah, no, I lost everything. I came home from Tokyo thinking I had failed, even though I had a gold medal in a world record. Took me two years to realize that that's bullshit.

SPEAKER_00 0:15

He's an Olympic gold and silver medalist in Tokyo. He's a multiple-time world champion, short course world record holder, and one of the most versatile swimmers in the world. Michael Andrew. Welcome to Athletes After Hours. Oh my God. You're so tan.

SPEAKER_08 0:37

Hawaii. Actually, honestly, it's been my San Diego days.

SPEAKER_00 0:40

Really?

SPEAKER_08 0:41

I feel like I've gotten more sun in the last week here than I have in the two months I've been living in Hawaii.

SPEAKER_00 0:47

Okay, wait, I'm actually kind of shocked.

SPEAKER_08 0:48

Yeah, well, we've we're like, so we're going through our rainy season. Oh, true. That's why the trip got cancelled. Okay. Yeah. So we've made it back into the sun and finally on the pod. So excited. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:01

So funny story is we were literally full blown set to have a sport swap and yeah, we had a full week planned. A full week itinerary planned. I am so OCD. I like had a full thing set. And we found a gym on the North Shore. And I was Red Bull was having a fitness event out on the North Shore. And so they invited me out there. I was like, oh, this is perfect. I'm going to hit up Michael. We're going to shoot our stuff. It's going to be so fun. We're going to get him in the gym and do some flips. And it literally just fell through because of the weather. They were like, the weather's so bad. And honestly, thank God they told us before.

SPEAKER_08 1:35

Yeah, it would have been miserable. It would have been bad. It all works out. I feel like I was a little nervous too because I actually that same week was flying to Westmont to race in my first pro series of the year, which is also like my first race back with my dad, which I'm sure we'll touch on.

SPEAKER_01 1:49

Yeah.

SPEAKER_08 1:50

But I was like, hmm. Not really time to fuck with that. Should I be tumbling and doing this all? It's like, I mean, senders gonna send, but yeah, it all works out.

SPEAKER_00 2:00

I'm glad that we did not suddenly flip before that big race.

SPEAKER_08 2:03

So it's okay. I was just surfing reefy spots anyway.

SPEAKER_00 2:06

Casual. Speaking of the race, I heard you did amazing.

SPEAKER_08 2:10

It was good. Yeah. Congratulations. Oh, thank you. Yeah. So I kind of left I left the meet uh number two in the world in one event. I think I was top three in the other. Um overall, really stoked with the rat. So swimming a lot faster than where I was last year this time. Cool. And even I think world champs. So last year our peak was world champs in August in Singapore. And I swam almost all my times were right on or faster than what I swam there. Which is gnarly. So like this early in the season to be swimming fast is a great sign of the direction. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 2:43

That's insane. I mean, I feel like with swimming, it's very like analytical of your times. Like you're so big on you know, knowing what times like I think that's so fascinating because that's obviously nothing like gymnastics. But does that kind of also maybe in in turn kind of like worry you? Because like maybe you don't you don't want to peek obviously at the beginning.

SPEAKER_08 3:05

That's a good point.

SPEAKER_00 3:06

So, like, have you thought about that where it could be it's it's weird.

SPEAKER_08 3:10

So it's it is unique to the athlete. Um I think for my case specifically. So I grew up, my dad was my coach my whole career. I went pro really early, and so we kind of had this different mentality towards um swimming at a high level, and we actually got a lot of shit for it. Early on, I think people didn't understand why we were racing fast and breaking records early in the season, and they all thought, okay, well, you gotta do this long, break the body down, you know, really, really break it down, and then you recover and you do what they call like a taper. I don't know if they have that in other sports, but yeah, they're like taper, and then in theory, you're gonna peak higher than where you started the season. But we our mentality or mentality around it and kind of this methodology was we want to break down but allow for recovery and we continually stair step throughout the season. Now, as you get older, like I'm 26 now, when I was 14 to like 18, you can consistently just get faster and faster throughout the season. Yeah, but now it's like margins are so small, so it's all become super technical. So I don't think I like swim as like I can't peek as many times in the season. So you do kind of throughout your career that shifts a little bit.

SPEAKER_01 4:23

Yeah.

SPEAKER_08 4:24

But I always was like, you know, if you feel good and you're ready to go, like go any time of the year. Um and we also got shit because like in swimming we shave our whole body. Yep. And most of a seal. Yeah, it's awesome. It's like the I know I the girlies get it, but it's like the girlies get it. The best thing is shaving your whole body and putting a pair of sweats on or getting in like clean sheets, and you're like, I feel like a new being. And um, but it's awesome. And so like there's like this sensory thing behind it, and we got a lot of crap because early in the season or all these pro series, I would shave. Okay, no one else was because they're like, Oh, well, this isn't like my peak meat, like I'm training through it. But in my head, I'm like, if I show up unshaved, I'm just telling my brain that I don't really care about the results and I'm not gonna swim fast. So then you don't swim fast.

SPEAKER_00 5:11

What if you think that it could make you a better what does shaving your body have to do? I don't understand that at all.

SPEAKER_08 5:18

So I think there's this like this weird swim theory that it's like I it makes sense, like you want to save everything for like that point in the season that matters the most. Because like your world champs is the metal, or like you still swim fast, you can still. I was like, your hair's gonna grow back anyway. It's like it doesn't change anything. For me, it was more of a mental mentality thing. Like if I didn't shave, I felt like I wasn't taking it seriously.

SPEAKER_01 5:40

I love that.

SPEAKER_08 5:40

And other people were like, Well, we're gonna save it for that. I was like, Well, you can do both. So it's a weird thing.

SPEAKER_00 5:45

I kind of actually get that though, because like in gymnastics, we have like a pre-season and then we have obviously regular and post.

SPEAKER_06 5:51

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 5:52

And so I think a lot of times when we have like pre-season, it's like we're not competing yet, but we're doing like in-house meets, like mock meets is what we called it. And then also in regular season, kind of same thing where it's like, yeah, it doesn't really matter because you have a lot of opportunities to qualify to nationals and regionals. But what if you just continued to get better each time and build on the momentum?

SPEAKER_08 6:15

But does your routine change for the in-season versus like the main, like the big event? Right. So same routine, same warm-up, same routine.

SPEAKER_00 6:22

So why would you not treat it like a championship meeting every time?

SPEAKER_08 6:26

And that's everything we've ever preached in the way we train is like ultra specificity. Like, why do why do shit that doesn't help you swim faster? Yeah, you know, your brain codes every movement, and that's I think why gymnasts train so much and they do the same movements over and over and over. Is it's the more you like, but um, it's like repetition is the father of learning. It's like the more you can do something, you code a movement like you much like you would a computer, yeah. So that it comes in automatic output when it comes time to race.

SPEAKER_01 6:56

Yeah.

SPEAKER_08 6:56

And so I, you know, I do very short distances repeatedly, and if I do one slowly, we stop so that we can communicate and say, hey, brain, wipe that from the main like mainframe. That's not helpful.

SPEAKER_01 7:09

Yeah.

SPEAKER_08 7:10

And then you go back into the set and keep going. So you're coding only specificity, only speed, right technique, right velocity, head position, all that, and you're tweaking throughout it. I could nerd out. You're a fucking robot for real. You're literally a robot. I love it. I was like, I'm watching this, it's like I literally I could, yeah, the wheels are turning.

SPEAKER_00 7:29

So he's gonna write a book at some point. Be sure to buy it later when he's retired. Because holy crap, you should write a book. Yeah, I bet you have so many incredible philosophies. I appreciate it. And I mean, I I want to know, like, obviously, with you growing up with your dad as your coach, like you took a lot of your stuff home with you. How was that?

SPEAKER_08 7:47

That was the hardest part. Really? And I think it got to, well, it got to a point, um, well, a little over a year and a half ago, where I needed to step away from the family dynamic.

SPEAKER_01 8:00

Yeah.

SPEAKER_08 8:00

Because I think we realized some guardrails or boundaries needed to be set. So when you're younger, it was a lot easier for me to kind of not blindly follow, but be told what to do. And and respected that. Like I loved it. I was like, You're my dad, you're my coach. Yeah. I respect it, you know what you're doing. Let's go. Won a gold medal, lots of world champ medals, like it worked. Yeah, over 100 national records, like, great. But as I got older, I think there's this level of autonomy in my life and career, but then a sense of ownership that I think I started to shift. And I think I everything was kind of taken care of for me as a kid, which is normal. Yeah. You know, your parents wanted to provide and do everything for you. But then as I got older, I was like, nah, I want to let me do this.

SPEAKER_00 8:50

You're craving independence. Yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_08 8:52

And so, and it was good. I think, you know, we went through stages, highs and lows, emotional stuff, whatever. Um, but it was amazing knowing one nobody wants to succeed more than your parents do.

SPEAKER_01 9:03

Yeah.

SPEAKER_08 9:03

And I just had to find a way to balance that. And I think it's possible through like healthy communication, but it is really hard. Like, I don't Tokyo was really special because so I have this Olympic flag signed in my house, and I will get to the point. Um my dad and I are the only family duo on there, so he was named Olympic coach. So he got to go to the Olympics with me because I had three individual events, and obviously it was special because Tokyo was COVID Games, so no spectators. My sister, my mom couldn't be in Tokyo, so it was like, you know, I'm like missing half my team, but I still have my dad, you know? That's cool, which was really special. Um, and I think the reason and the way it worked so well for us is we communicate really well, but we collaborate on a lot. And so a lot of my dad's philosophy and the way he kind of speaks about it is even though he's like my head coach, he still values my input as if I'm an equal. It's not like he kind of lords this position over me as an athlete. He knows my experience and also just who I am as an athlete. I think some athletes probably need to be controlled a little bit. Yeah, but for me, I'm like, I'm so in tune with my body, I can tell him every rep what felt off, where my hips are, how my head's dipping. Yeah. We watch videos, same thing, just very analytical. And so it works, and that collaboration is good. But then where the challenges are is what do you do when you get out of the pool? Yeah, can you be dad and son and go fish or play catch type of thing? And I think we had a hard time of doing that. I think everything was very swim focused for a very long time. And after missing the Paris team, I just decided, you know what? Let's let's be father-son, yeah, like son mom, like for a little while and kind of mend some of that family like bond. Let me go to a program, and then you know, a year went by and now I'm back with my dad, which is awesome.

SPEAKER_00 11:02

That's really cool.

SPEAKER_08 11:03

So yeah.

SPEAKER_00 11:04

I mean, yeah, sometimes you just need to take a step away and one, like recognize what you have, right? And you know, you're like, okay, yeah, there were a few little things that we could maybe iron out, but at the end of the day, like there's nothing better than working with your dad. And you guys clearly work.

SPEAKER_08 11:18

No, and it's super unique, it's rare. I don't think so rare. Yeah, there's there's quite a few swim parents that are doing it, but it is hard, and it adds to the story. You know, we have like you said, like there's gonna be a gnarly book one day. Yeah um, but we gotta win a few golds in LA first. Yeah, so and then and then we'll release it.

SPEAKER_00 11:37

Yes, I'm here for it. Hopefully I'll be on the stands cheering you on.

SPEAKER_08 11:40

Oh, 100%. We'll be there.

SPEAKER_00 11:42

That'll be so sick.

SPEAKER_08 11:43

Yeah, on deck immediately.

SPEAKER_00 11:44

On deck, yeah. I'll be the one.

SPEAKER_08 11:45

It'll be my interview. That'll be a full circle moment.

SPEAKER_00 11:49

Wait, that would be so sick. NBC.

SPEAKER_08 11:52

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 11:52

Hit me up.

SPEAKER_08 11:53

Honestly.

SPEAKER_00 11:54

Um, that's that's so cool though, because I have, yeah, I mean, gymnastics too. It's like I've seen it's rare, but I've seen some people even not even be like coaches, but like just their parents being extremely involved. And it's always been really toxic. So it's it's really healing to hear that you have such a positive experience with your dad, and that you guys have found your flow. Yeah, and it works. But I mean, it it's no surprise that you have developed now this own personal philosophy where you want to kind of separate from him because you're a man and you want to feel strong in yourself and you want to feel like you're independent and like you want to feel like when you're out on the pool deck, like you can handle shit and get it done regardless of who's in your corner.

SPEAKER_06 12:41

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 12:42

And yeah, I don't blame you for that at all. But also utilize your resources. I mean, he's in your corner no matter what, and he's always gonna have your back. And in a world where, especially when there's a lot of money involved and a lot of fame, like you never know people's intentions. True. And so it's really nice that you never have to worry about his intentions.

SPEAKER_08 13:00

Yeah, no drama, no drama. No, no, and it's nice. We we think the same way, we enjoy the same things. So it is, it's it's really fun working with my dad. And even now, like we, you know, we've been just recently going through some meetings, and I'm bringing in more athletes into my team because I I think part of two why things maybe were a little more difficult throughout my career was because I was the only athlete that he was taking care of.

SPEAKER_00 13:26

Oh, no, no, no.

SPEAKER_08 13:27

It was just me. That's tough, right? Yeah, that's really like I loved it in that I got all the attention.

SPEAKER_01 13:32

Yeah.

SPEAKER_08 13:33

But what I realized, and this is I think the biggest, so my year away, I went and swam at ASU. So I went, I went and swam with the pro group there.

SPEAKER_01 13:41

Oh, I remember you doing that.

SPEAKER_08 13:42

Yeah, and the coach, amazing, dynamic, awesome. But the biggest lesson I learned, and I think it's kind of one of those like you realize what you have the moment you lose it, or what you had.

SPEAKER_01 13:54

Yeah.

SPEAKER_08 13:55

And uh, you know, when a coach is trying to take care of 70 athletes on deck that are all wanting to get good or waste their time, whatever these college athletes 70? Yeah, so you got the men's and women's college team.

SPEAKER_00 14:06

Oh my god.

SPEAKER_08 14:07

And then the pro group is like five of us.

SPEAKER_00 14:09

You're like, wait, what about me?

SPEAKER_08 14:10

Yeah, and the pros obviously, you know, the salary is not being paid by the pros, it's being paid by the university. Yeah, so there's a hierarchy in my whole yeah, exactly. In my whole career, I was the priority. Exactly. Yeah, and so you yeah, I was just I was very fortunate to learn that and still had a good year, swam well. It's a culture shock though, made some amazing friends. Um, so that was one thing I learned, and then I also realized the importance of having teammates, yeah, but like select teammates, you know, because there's teammates that can help you and teammates that can drag you down, or just like create a toxic environment, be negative, no, or or lazy or undisciplined, or want to go drink and do all these things that are not gonna help me perform. And I became really good friends with my well, my now training partner, Mikel Schroeder's, and he swims for Aruba.

SPEAKER_01 14:59

Cool.

SPEAKER_08 15:00

And in this like process, I was like, hey dude, I'm gonna go train with my dad in Hawaii, and he'd come down and camp with us, and I was like, but the only way I'm doing it, and this was a caveat I told my dad. Yeah, I was like, I know you want me to come to Hawaii and train with you. So newsflash, I live in Hawaii now, uh, paradise.

SPEAKER_01 15:20

Bummer.

SPEAKER_08 15:20

But I'm only doing it if Mikkel and his wife can come will move with me and do this because I realize we we did this for over a decade without teammates, and I need someone that can push me, I need someone that can hold me accountable. Yeah, I need somebody that will push me to a level, and also that I can push him to a level. Like I believe that the both of us we're gonna be in many Olympic finals. He's a really talented athlete. We saw him similar events, so it's like this is like weird silver lining in missing an Olympic team and hitting what was like my rock bottom as an athlete. To like, okay, now I know why it happened. And I'm a firm believer everything happens for a reason.

SPEAKER_00 16:02

Same.

SPEAKER_08 16:03

And now I'm building towards LA with a teammate that I love and respect and working towards some pretty epic goals.

SPEAKER_00 16:10

That's sick.

SPEAKER_08 16:10

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 16:11

I mean, it's a fire under your ass. You want it and you need it.

SPEAKER_08 16:13

Oh, 100%.

SPEAKER_00 16:14

And yeah, I love that you you're being so intentional with who you surround yourself with. And I'm I'm such a firm believer in that as well. Like, I did not realize, I think in your 20s, like you're 26. Yeah, like I I've heard like 26, 27 is like you lose a lot of friendships because you, you know, you grow and you outgrow. Yeah, like they phase out. And I'm like, I'm mourning like a lot of friendships where it's just like, oh, I just like outgrew them, or like we're just in different phases of life now, you know, like they're having kids and having families losing their lives and priorities are different. And it's like I'm out here trying to grow a boss, and I'm very different place, you know. So I think it's like it's cool that you're able to hand pick your environment. Yeah, it's smart.

SPEAKER_08 17:02

Very fortunate. I mean, very smart. Yeah, I feel like we're not all super lucky to do that.

SPEAKER_00 17:07

I think it's yeah, you're forced into environments where you're like, goddamn, dude.

SPEAKER_08 17:11

Like, yeah, but I think too, what I've noticed in at least in my life and how I approach most things is I'll I'll try to open doors and create opportunity, like naturally. Like I'll find ways to make something happen.

SPEAKER_00 17:26

Same with like very smart in that way. Thank you.

SPEAKER_08 17:28

Yeah, I try, but I think there has to be a healthy dose of like, you know what? If it's not meant to be, it's not meant to be.

SPEAKER_01 17:37

Yeah.

SPEAKER_08 17:37

So I try not to push too hard because then I mean I've done that in my past where I force something to happen or work, and then you realize shit, that was that was difficult to make happen because it showed me. It wasn't meant for me, yeah. Yeah, but even with this, it just kind of all flowed so smoothly into the next. And I think there's a lot of um, you know, like looking for green flags, and it all kind of sets up. Yeah, the runway's been nice.

SPEAKER_00 18:02

You're aligned. Yeah, I think it's exactly what you've been craving, right? Which is key. And I I mean, swimming is already such an individual sport. So, like just even having the camaraderie and the energy when you are having a bad day and have like a teammate be able to pick you up and encourage you and like know that the end goal is similar to theirs, and well, and I think too, like having joy outside of the sport.

SPEAKER_08 18:24

Yeah, my thing is, you know, when I was in Arizona, it's all you had didn't know what to do outside the pool. I'm not gonna play Fortnite all day. Like, you know, and Mikhail and I would go play pool at each other's apartments, and it's awesome. But I'm like, I can only do this so many hours of the day and not go crazy. Yeah, you know, and when I lived in California and now Hawaii is like people see how much joy I have training and doing what I do because one, I'm creating an atmosphere of like, one, it's just beautiful. I'm shooting some fun content, but I have life outside the pool. Like I go surf, I can go ride dirt bikes, I can go spearfish, I can dive, hike, whatever it is. Yeah, all these things that recharge me and give me the you know, I wake up in the morning, go to practice, I'm like, hell yeah, I'm ready to like obliterate my body.

SPEAKER_01 19:15

Yeah.

SPEAKER_08 19:15

Because I know I get to go surf later or whatever. It's like a reward. It is, exactly. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 19:20

I love that. And I mean, you I can tell, I think it's very clear to me, maybe because I was an athlete who didn't have balance, but like it's very obvious to me the athletes that do.

SPEAKER_06 19:33

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 19:34

And I am always so inspired, especially when you can take it to such an extreme level, but not have an extreme lifestyle.

SPEAKER_08 19:42

Right. It's so gnarly, it is rare.

SPEAKER_00 19:45

It's so rare, and it's really impressive that you've managed to curate a life that has that balance and joy and genuine fulfillment without the sport.

SPEAKER_08 19:54

I appreciate that. I do think there was a there was a point in my career where I had too much fun.

SPEAKER_00 19:58

Really?

SPEAKER_08 19:58

Yeah. And I was too focused on like the surfing and the fishing and whatnot.

SPEAKER_00 20:03

Yeah. And you're like, we're not going pro for surfing. Right. Oh my gosh, I wish that would be the dream.

SPEAKER_08 20:09

I have some surfboard companies that follow me, and I'm like, some free boards. But um, I I do think I started to focus more on the fun things. Yeah. And then the performance side takes a hit. Yeah. So it's like it you definitely play this like back and forth balanced game. And I don't think it's ever perfect. Like it doesn't sit there for very long. You kind of it's constantly teetering.

SPEAKER_01 20:29

Yeah.

SPEAKER_08 20:30

And it's a sliding skill. Yeah. And even like in relationships, like that's another thing too that I'm learning a lot about and folks on. I'm curious your take on it. Is like when you're trying to pursue something that takes up a lot of your time, you know, some relationships or whether it's friendships or romantic, they'll they'll fuel that drive and help it, or it can take away from it.

SPEAKER_01 20:56

Yeah.

SPEAKER_08 20:56

And I'm like a hundred percent in on everything type of guy. Same. So it's like if I find a new hobby or a new creative outlet or we get hyperfixed like that. Person that I want to be around, everything else goes out the window.

SPEAKER_00 21:08

Yeah.

SPEAKER_08 21:08

So I'm like, okay, I gotta what are my goals? And that's why it's like so important to be clear about what you're pursuing.

SPEAKER_01 21:15

Yeah.

SPEAKER_08 21:15

So that you can then know, okay, does this help me get here? Is this a distraction? Is this something that's gonna aid where I'm going, or is this like, does it need to be honed in? So yeah, it's yeah, it's a challenge.

SPEAKER_00 21:28

Yeah, I mean, for me, I got some really good advice when I was at at UCLA competing, and my coach told us the decisions you make dictate the life you lead. So every day is made up of millions and millions of choices, and you can make, you know, the choice to wake up and be like, oh fuck, today's gonna suck, or I can attack the day. Right. And that's like one championship mindset already done. Yeah. And so you just kind of keep chipping away and using those little moments to then create a championship.

SPEAKER_08 22:00

Right. Mentality. And it builds off of another. Like if you continue, you start negative, it feeds negative. Yes. You start positive.

SPEAKER_00 22:07

You start looking for the bad instead of looking for the good. And then next thing you know, your day is shit. And I've definitely slipped into that. And so, like, that helps kind of drag me out of it because I'm a big, like, control your controllables kind of person. So if I feel like I'm spiraling, I'm like, how do we control our controllables? Okay, like, what the fuck am I saying to myself? Am I saying main things? Like, am I beating myself up? Am I eating bad? Am I not walking? Am I not going outside? Like, do we need to touch some grass? Odds are probably.

SPEAKER_06 22:34

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 22:34

You know? So, I mean, with relationships, I would say I'm kind of in it too. With like, I've I've experienced some really toxic situations and experienced some really, really, really supportive positive ones. Like my ex when I was competing at UCLA, my senior year was I always say, like, some people are great for the season of life that you're in.

SPEAKER_06 22:59

Fair.

SPEAKER_00 23:00

They may not be like the one, but he was a phenomenal person to have in my corner during that time of my life.

SPEAKER_06 23:07

Wow.

SPEAKER_00 23:07

Not to say that I like used him to like have support, but like I truly believe he he played a big role in like my level of success my senior year because I'd never felt more confident. He did a great job. He showed up with flowers every meet. That's awesome. He was showed up for me. You know, it's just like I think finding a partner when you are a competitive athlete who understands it, gets it, and supports you through it is like huge.

SPEAKER_08 23:34

It is. It's really special. And I think too to understand the sacrifice that goes in. That's I think some people not make you feel guilty for it. Right. Which is interesting. Yeah. And I'm like the opposite of a selfish person. And I think sometimes I should be more selfish.

SPEAKER_00 23:48

You get like taken advantage of.

SPEAKER_08 23:50

Not even taken, but it's like I give it away.

SPEAKER_00 23:52

Fair.

SPEAKER_08 23:53

You know, like without a fight. I'm like, oh yeah, I'll be there.

SPEAKER_00 23:56

Yeah.

SPEAKER_08 23:56

For sure. I don't I don't need to train at six in the morning. Like, whatever.

SPEAKER_00 24:00

Your dad's like, dude, where are you at?

SPEAKER_08 24:01

Yeah, literally. So it's uh yeah, live and learn. But yeah, I yeah, very fortunate. I don't know. That's like even looking back, past relationships, same thing. It's like there's so many lessons to be learned. And I do think whether you go through something that's net negative or net positive, there's always a valuable lesson in it. And at the end of the day, we always look back in the season thinking, oh yeah, like I've come out of that, life is good. Yeah. As long as you got breath in your lungs and something you're working towards, you guys will be able to figure it out.

SPEAKER_00 24:36

Facts. I love that. That's so cool. What's like a moment that you can look back on in your career where you're like, I really wish I did something different?

SPEAKER_07 24:45

Oh shoot.

SPEAKER_00 24:49

Because you are very analytical and you I feel like you take everything into account. Yeah. So I'm curious if you like look back on like old strategies or old training, like what would you have changed? Um would you have changed anything?

SPEAKER_08 25:03

I have a million things running through my mind. It's it's so crazy. Um there's some really deep emotional ones. We can spare that maybe. But um, let's get it. Yeah, just like go back to missing the like West gets the tissues. Yeah, missing the Paris team by a tenth of a second.

SPEAKER_00 25:20

No fucking way. Yeah, we I didn't know that.

SPEAKER_08 25:23

Yeah, so I there was a lot of things, emotional, just yeah, it was a lot. I yeah, it was a lot, but um the in a nutshell, I think I realized I had given a lot of power to a relationship dynamic in the family that I think needed to be a certain way versus stepping out of that and realizing I actually had a lot of power to feel another way. So I think it's easy to when something isn't going the exact way that you want to become very emotionally tied to it. And this isn't that I was I should have turned things off, but I think I should have been able to say, okay, you know what? Things aren't perfect here or ideal, but I can control this, I can control that. And I think I I focused so much on what was happening externally that I couldn't control. Yeah, and then you start to freak out and be like, oh my gosh, this is such a big deal.

SPEAKER_00 26:24

And it's like it's stealing your your energy and control, but it's only stealing it because I gave it the power to.

SPEAKER_08 26:29

Yeah, and so I think that was a big one. Um so I remember just going into trials for Paris the least confident I've been in my entire life. No, and I was just thinking, you know what? And these are prayers I would tell myself, I was like, Lord, please give me a miracle. Like, I want to make this team, but I know I'm not capable. And I swam through the meet, I swam like shit. I had a lot of support there, and I had a lot of people that were really excited and really rooting for me. Sponsors, my girlfriend at the time, her family, just an amazing team, which I'm glad I had because I think had I not had that support coming out of it, I would have been a wreck for a very long time.

SPEAKER_00 27:12

You would have gone down a dark path.

SPEAKER_08 27:13

Yeah, I think it just would have been hard to climb back out because I had like no idea where I'd go now. Because I think as an athlete, you are taught and it's so easy to believe that your value and your worth comes from your last performance.

SPEAKER_01 27:26

Yeah.

SPEAKER_08 27:27

Which in the sporting world is true, but it's so unhealthy and it's and it's not real. Yeah. That's the thing, is like what what you live out with, you know, these big brands, or you know, it's fair, like gold medals sell merchandise. Yeah. And at the end of the day, as much as they say your family, like you're still selling a product. And so when you miss an Olympic team, they don't really care if you're sad or have an emotional breakdown or stuff. Like maybe the people are, but like at the end of the day, it's not good for the business. Yeah. And I totally respect that. Like, I get it. Like they pulled sponsorship. Oh, yeah, no, I lost everything, which is which is amazing. But it's but it was so amazing is I learned not to put my value in that. Wow. Cause I used to. I was so, and I mean, I still I chase it because I want it. Like I'm excited to work with partners that are doing awesome things in the space. But at the end of the day, I realize like there's there's more to it. It's it is a business thing, and and now it just becomes part of my story, yeah, which is great. You know, when I'm back on the top, yeah, whether there's a high or a low in between, like that just builds to the story. Yeah, you know, we're building the story. Um, and one day we'll get to tell it, which is pretty cool. But no, like, so yeah, that was kind of my my low. And I don't know if there was I honestly even talking about it, like you had asked, is there anything I would have changed? I probably wouldn't.

SPEAKER_01 28:50

Yeah.

SPEAKER_08 28:50

Because I think had I changed that, maybe I wouldn't have learned the valuable lessons I did as a person and an athlete.

SPEAKER_01 28:57

Yeah.

SPEAKER_08 28:58

And you know, now I have that as a resource to teach other kids through clinics or whatever I do on my platform because I didn't lose my platform. Like I'm still respected in the swimming world. Um but there's unfinished business, which is exciting. So I can get back on the horse and keep doing my thing, and you know, very fortunate to have, you know, some athletes go through that and they're like, okay, fuck it. Like, I'm done. I'm out.

SPEAKER_01 29:23

Yeah.

SPEAKER_08 29:24

And I was not done or out, so here we are. Yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 29:29

But what I find so fascinating is like you one, obviously utilizing your story, and I'm so sorry you had to go through that. Like, I can't even imagine.

SPEAKER_06 29:40

No, it's good.

SPEAKER_00 29:40

I mean, it's just a tough, yeah. It's a tough world. I mean, that's why it's sport.

SPEAKER_08 29:46

That's why everyone wants to be an athlete. Yeah. Everyone wants the gold medal story, but a lot of people have to deal with heartbreak. That's normal. That's what makes sport so amazing. And I think that's why business people like working with athletes. They know how to face failure and get up again.

SPEAKER_01 30:01

Yeah.

SPEAKER_08 30:01

They know how to push through a really tough season and know that you know it people will forget about it. Fair at the end of the day.

SPEAKER_00 30:10

Do you think that doing as well as you did in Japan affected kind of the outcome of Paris? Like, did you have like a lot of pressure on your shoulders? Did you feel like it kind of set this like really unreasonable expectation for you?

SPEAKER_08 30:29

Like that's a good question.

SPEAKER_00 30:31

Um because it's always tough coming off of a high. Like people always say, like in gymnastics, anyways, like your first perfect 10, it's a lot harder to get your second. Yeah. Because like now there's an expectation.

SPEAKER_08 30:41

It's really funny because I think a lot of people thought I came back from Tokyo on a high and they thought I was super stoked. But I was actually depressed for like 13 weeks. I oh my god, I stepped away from the pool. I didn't swim for 13 weeks. I went out with friends and we partied, but it wasn't I wasn't celebrating anything. No, I was actually devastated. I thought it was like it was I probably had outside of coming home with a gold medal, it sounds ridiculous. I know. No button. Outside of coming home, but here's the thing is so if you look at so I had three individual races.

SPEAKER_01 31:14

Okay.

SPEAKER_08 31:15

I had the 50 Freestyle, Hunter Breaststroke, and the 200 IM. All three of those races, I was ranked top three in the world going into it.

SPEAKER_01 31:24

Okay.

SPEAKER_08 31:24

I was the fastest American by a long shot in Hunter Breast and the 200 IM, my 50 Free. I was second just behind Caleb. And so going into the Olympics, there was this very clear okay, Michael's the guy.

SPEAKER_01 31:39

Yeah.

SPEAKER_08 31:39

He's gonna win three medals, maybe gold. And I ended up coming fourth in two of them and fifth in one. So like I swam well, but I did not swim nearly lights out like I did at trials. Not the swimming. Yeah. And there was a lot of other things I was dealing with. Like I was being kind of villainized for my decisions around certain uh free will at the time. So I became a target of what we were going through at the time with COVID.

SPEAKER_01 32:08

Yeah.

SPEAKER_08 32:09

And then it so it became less about swimming and just being an athlete. Now I was like this political figurehead. And so I was getting death threats and crazy shit during the games. And you know, it kind of ties back to your last question. Is like something I would have done differently is blacked out all media.

SPEAKER_01 32:28

Yeah.

SPEAKER_08 32:29

But I decided, you know, oh, I've made the team. Here I am, I'm gonna still be on Instagram and stuff. Don't do it.

SPEAKER_00 32:35

I would just give my phone to someone else, honestly.

SPEAKER_08 32:37

No, I really should have. At trials, I was completely blacked out, it was amazing. All I had to focus on was swimming.

SPEAKER_00 32:41

Yeah.

SPEAKER_08 32:42

At the Olympics, it was different because now I have all these other things swirling in my head. Um, yeah, but to go back is like I came home from Tokyo thinking I had failed, even though I had a gold medal and a world record in the relay, because my expectation on me, the expectation set from my dad and the team and USA swimming and the media and all these things were so much higher than what I achieved. So I came back and told myself that I was a failure.

SPEAKER_01 33:09

Oh my god.

SPEAKER_08 33:09

And it took me two years to realize that that's bullshit and that I can actually celebrate it and still be upset with the results and want more.

SPEAKER_01 33:19

Yeah, still be hungry.

SPEAKER_08 33:20

Yeah, and so that's when I decided, okay, I'm gonna go get my tattoo because I had put it off because I was kind of told, well, don't get your tattoo until you're a gold medalist. Because I was like, well, then you you that's when you've earned it. And I was like, that's so unhealthy. And it took me a little while to realize that. So I was like, okay, I've grown through that now, and I'm I'm able to be proud of what I did through the circumstances, but still hungry. So it's just like a right there and just off type of thing. And yeah, it's it's unique. It's actually, I love like being able to sit down and talk about this because I I don't think I go back and process it enough.

SPEAKER_00 33:59

Yeah.

SPEAKER_08 34:00

Because I lived through it. Yeah. And I was like, okay, I'm done with that.

SPEAKER_00 34:03

You probably blacked it out.

SPEAKER_08 34:04

Yeah, naturally, right? Yeah, it's like a trauma response. I think so for sure.

SPEAKER_00 34:08

Um, so wait, you got your tattoo. Where'd you get it?

SPEAKER_08 34:11

I got my ribs.

SPEAKER_00 34:12

Okay.

unknown 34:13

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 34:14

Flex on them. Period.

unknown 34:16

Yeah.

SPEAKER_08 34:17

So you're not as painful as I thought it would be.

SPEAKER_00 34:18

Really?

SPEAKER_08 34:19

Yeah. I have a it's funny. I sorry to my buddy Bobby. Um, so Bobby Fink, I texted him because it there's nothing unique about the Olympic rings, at least in the Olympic space. Like we all have them, like they're the same. They they're just a bunch of circles. So I was just trying to figure out, okay, like where should I put it?

SPEAKER_01 34:36

Yeah.

SPEAKER_08 34:36

And I didn't want it to be something that's visible everywhere I go. Because I was like, I don't want that attention all the time, unless my shirt's off. It's like, okay, whatever.

SPEAKER_01 34:44

Yeah, there you go.

SPEAKER_08 34:44

And it keeps me fit. Like I can't, I can't gain weight now. The circles are like destroyed. Literally, just like a bunch of ovals. Um, but I I reached out to my buddy Bobby and I was like, hey dude, how how bad did that hurt? Like, because I was always told like ribs are a lot of things.

SPEAKER_00 34:59

I heard ribs really hurt. There's no fat or like really a lot of muscle.

SPEAKER_08 35:02

And he goes, like, dude, I was sweating, I had to take a break. It was like awful, the worst pain. And I think because at the time, so I was dating a girl out of LA, and and she was rad and she had a bunch of tattoos, and so she came with me. She helped me find the tattoo artist. She was your emotional. She came with me. Yeah. And so I'm here sitting on the table. I'm like, I can't bitch out on this. You can't look like a pussy. My girl, my girlfriend's here. I'm like, I just gotta take this like a champ. And so I got through it pretty fine. And I remember after I have photos of it. Just I was so stoked. Um, but yeah, it was pretty cool. So it's like sick. Yeah, my ribs.

SPEAKER_00 35:41

I want to get more, but that's still so insane to me though, that they literally told you you couldn't get it until you got a gold medal. Are we okay?

SPEAKER_08 35:48

Well, there's there's more to it. Um, a lot of it too is like my mom is very traditional, which is awesome. I love it. Yeah. Um, but she was very adamant that my brain doesn't fully develop until I'm 25, which is probably true.

SPEAKER_00 36:03

It is actually a true, yeah.

SPEAKER_08 36:05

The men's prefrontal, is it frontal lobe?

SPEAKER_00 36:07

Frontal cortex. Frontal cortex. I think it's our frontal lobe. Oh yeah. Frontal cortex.

SPEAKER_08 36:12

Our frontal lobe doesn't develop until 25. Women sooner. So you guys are way smarter than we are. Period. Love that for us. And um, and so she was like, Well, didn't you make a deal that you're not gonna get it until you like have fully developed? I'm like, I'm an Olympian.

SPEAKER_00 36:28

You're still Olympian. Nothing's gonna change. Yeah, it's not like they're gonna take that away from you.

SPEAKER_08 36:33

So I got it at 24 uh for my birthday. Okay. And I was like, this is my reward to myself. Sorry, mom, I'm just gonna do it. Yeah, you gotta live with it.

SPEAKER_02 36:41

That was your little rebellious moment. Yeah, even though you're such a customer.

SPEAKER_08 36:44

I don't think I'd I don't think I'd ever actually made that deal with her, but she was trying to be like, no, you committed to that. And I'm like, I never committed to that. So here we are.

SPEAKER_00 36:55

I mean, that's fair. My parents are very traditional as well, and they are not tattoo people.

SPEAKER_08 36:59

So now they don't even notice it.

SPEAKER_00 37:01

Really? No, it's part of you. It's just part of me. Yeah.

SPEAKER_08 37:03

Yeah. Just wait until I fill my leg, then they'll be tweaking out. What the mid-life crisis. They're like, Why are you wearing leggings in the pool?

SPEAKER_00 37:11

Like, no reason. Just wearing a wetsuit. Don't worry about it.

SPEAKER_08 37:15

Do you have any tattoos?

SPEAKER_00 37:16

No.

SPEAKER_08 37:17

None. Would you or no?

SPEAKER_00 37:18

Mm-mm. I don't think so.

SPEAKER_08 37:19

No reason to.

SPEAKER_00 37:20

I just like I'm like, do I have commitment issues? But like, I just I don't really know how I could possibly commit. Yeah. Like I get nervous about putting stickers on my water bottle.

SPEAKER_08 37:29

Fair. In the same way. I'm like, it's so clean. Why would I change it? Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 37:33

Exactly. It's I I mean, no hate on tattoos, but I'm just like, well, that's why I think even with this, yeah.

SPEAKER_08 37:40

Technically, in my mind, this doesn't count as like my first tattoo.

SPEAKER_00 37:43

I wouldn't count it.

SPEAKER_08 37:44

No. So like when I get, I want, I want to. I'm not actually joking. I want to fill my leg with stuff.

SPEAKER_00 37:50

Tattoo journey.

SPEAKER_08 37:51

But I'm like, I go so back and forth. It's like I don't know what to get. And I want it to tell a good story. I also want it to look cool.

SPEAKER_01 37:57

That part.

SPEAKER_08 37:57

So it's like, I don't know. I feel like getting something that's not like a stamp like this is gonna be a little harder to commit to and be like, oh, I love that. Yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 38:06

So yeah.

SPEAKER_08 38:07

If you know any cool tattoo artists, you guys DM me or tell me. Yeah, leave in the comments.

SPEAKER_00 38:13

That part. I have a lot of friends actually that are like really like my friend, one of my girlfriends is doing her whole leg right now. It's awesome. And like she has her whole back and her sleeve, and like it's it's beautiful. It's like all very gorgeous, like artwork style. Like I just I find it so fascinating that like I I really admire it to just have like your body be a canvas. Yeah, but I'm just like I just didn't grow up around it, so it's just it's so foreign to me. Yeah, that makes sense. Like I I will never even like dye my hair.

SPEAKER_07 38:43

That yeah, good. Yeah, that's yeah.

SPEAKER_00 38:45

Like I get anxious about it, took me forever to even get my ears um pierced. I didn't get them until I was like a junior in college, so I don't know.

SPEAKER_08 38:55

I mean, I don't know when I'm the weirdo. I know. I don't know when women normally pierce their ears.

SPEAKER_00 38:58

So like people get their ears pierced when they're babies.

SPEAKER_08 39:01

Really? Yes. Oh my goodness.

SPEAKER_00 39:02

Or like I don't know, 12 or like 13 is like you go to Claire's, you get your ears, whatever. But yeah, no, I just I've always been very conservative with that stuff. It just makes me nervous.

SPEAKER_07 39:11

Yeah, that's so wild. So funny.

SPEAKER_00 39:13

But I mean, with swimming, I feel like that is kind of a conservative sport. Everyone's kind of more timid. I feel like it's kind of like how is that? Because you're not like this, you're like, you're not like that at all. No, it's not shy.

SPEAKER_08 39:26

No, not at all. But that's what's fun. It's like I walk and pool deck and I can know everyone. Because I'll talk to everyone.

SPEAKER_01 39:31

Yeah.

SPEAKER_08 39:32

Um, so it's fun. But I do think I don't know, that's our issue in swimming right now, and I think that's why swimming's not as watched. Because we don't have a lot of like characters.

SPEAKER_00 39:44

Yeah.

SPEAKER_08 39:44

You know, whether it's a villain or the good guy or personalities, the questionable, or you know, and there's we're starting this a few, but it's hard because like I don't know, there's not a lot of media outside of the Olympics.

SPEAKER_00 39:57

Yeah, there's not a medical idea.

SPEAKER_08 39:58

Because we don't we don't have a swim league. We used to. That went belly up.

SPEAKER_00 40:02

Really?

SPEAKER_08 40:03

Yeah, it was it was an interesting. We were involved in it. My family owned one of the pro teams on it.

SPEAKER_01 40:08

Okay.

SPEAKER_08 40:08

Um, and it was awesome. It was being funded by a Ukrainian oligarch. But once the Ukraine-Russia war started, you know, everything kind of fizzled out and disappeared. Athletes weren't getting paid, and we weren't able to get like proper funding. Well, it's just hard to get broadcasting and like people to get behind it and build viewership so that sponsored dollars could come in. So it's like I'm at a spot now where it's like I would love to see swimming have something like a drive to survive, where athletes' personalities and their interests outside of swim, but also their you know, dedication and elite level mindset can be shared. Yeah. Because then people can get behind it. That's right. Because right now no one knows who to root for or how to. There's no investment, there's no emotional investment. So, and that's why I like too. Swimming's an interesting one where it's like as a brand and as an athlete, I hate to say it, but like my value is more like I can create more value outside of the sport because it's so small.

SPEAKER_01 41:10

Yeah.

SPEAKER_08 41:11

And, you know, like I want to work with companies that don't see me as a swimmer, which is so hard because I am a swimmer. Yeah, that's my platform, and that's your brand. But I'm building an audience outside of swimming because I realize, you know, when everybody swims, it's a heartbeat sport, but no one does it at the competitive level. It's hard to understand like a basketball because you got a league and the football, you got NFL, you know, golf, you've got PGA. The Olympics is the token.

SPEAKER_00 41:37

Yeah.

SPEAKER_08 41:38

You know, for us, the Olympics is all we have.

SPEAKER_00 41:40

Yeah, that's crazy.

SPEAKER_08 41:41

So that's your 12 minutes every four years. And if you don't hit it, you get forgotten about.

SPEAKER_00 41:47

That makes actually so much sense because I always wondered why there was always so much pressure on the swimmers to perform at the Olympics.

SPEAKER_08 41:53

And I think it's just because you look at the Olympics, we got, you know, nine days of coverage. So there's so much swimming. So there's a lot of emphasis on it, and we have a ton of events, yeah. Which a lot of medals, a lot of money.

SPEAKER_00 42:04

But that makes sense. I yeah. I mean, it makes a lot of sense too, though, because I remember hearing Alona Mar talk about Love Alona. Yeah, on her podcast, she said the best way to get more viewers on a sport is to have more characters. Yeah. And she was like, I'm not the best rugby player in the world, but people think that I am because they know her. I'm the brand of rugby now. Like I've worked on my socials enough and built out my brand enough to be kind of the face of rugby. And she's like, I'm happy to carry that, but also the way that the sport's gonna grow is just continuing to have so many more people hopping on the content train.

SPEAKER_06 42:42

And it's huge.

SPEAKER_00 42:43

It just sucks because it's like content is a full-time job. I mean, as someone who is a full-time content creator, it's crazy. Like, I can't even imagine having to train at the same time as doing this job and train competitively. Yeah, and stay.

SPEAKER_08 42:57

I'm still sitting on two vlogs that I need to edit. Yeah. It's like probably not gonna have it for any editors that want to help him out. I'm just here to source help.

SPEAKER_00 43:06

Yeah, we're just here to recruit all of it. Blink twice if we need help.

SPEAKER_08 43:12

My goodness.

SPEAKER_00 43:13

Oh my god. You can't have mine because he's already spread thin enough.

SPEAKER_08 43:16

Take it. No, but it is it's awesome. I think that is the beauty in it. Is I don't know. If it was easy, everyone would be doing it.

SPEAKER_00 43:25

That part, you know, so true.

SPEAKER_08 43:27

So I I don't I don't poo-poo the like the difficulty behind it, and it is hard. Like, I I did a podcast the other day and I spoke about this, and it's like, you know what? Swimmers, we it's easy to complain about the lack of funding from our NGB, which is like our national governing body. But the problem is swimmers are wanting to get paid. I don't know how much they're wanting to get paid, but it's like you can't expect to get paid a certain level if you're just gonna sit back and twiddle your thumbs and focus on swimming.

SPEAKER_02 43:58

Like yeah, you have to build.

SPEAKER_00 44:00

Yeah, you're following. No one cares about that stuff.

SPEAKER_08 44:02

No, exactly. Post some TikToks, post some Instagram reels, do a live, like stream, live stream if you want. Like try it all. Find something that clicks. And I mean, I wasn't always this comfortable talking or in front of cameras. You practice. But I practice and I put yourself out and embarrass myself enough times to be like, you know what? Screw it. No one really actually cares. Like, so yeah, it's it's uh it's really up to the athletes and up to you, anyone who's listening, to like create that value for yourself, which is also what you're doing so well. And that's what I love following from a distance for a while before becoming friends and doing this. It's like it's it's cool to see, and you know, I try to emulate that through what I see others like yourself doing. And it's just like we continue to kind of grow, and then eventually you guys are all at that peak, yeah. Working with Red Bull or doing something epic. So it's like literally.

SPEAKER_00 44:54

I I love that. And we were just talking about too like how there are very few high-level athletes who are also doing content, who are also very strong personalities. I mean, like I talk about this with Molly all the time, Molly Carlson. It's just like it's definitely uh it's a trifecta, and balancing all of it while having balance is tough.

SPEAKER_08 45:17

So I give you your flowers because I I'm like I've got a lot to figure out, but but you're trying, getting better, dating better.

SPEAKER_00 45:24

And I always say, like, you can never fail if you're trying. True, truly, yeah. And I think you're gonna continue to inspire so many swimmers to see life beyond their sport. Yeah, and I think that is gonna be the most powerful impact.

SPEAKER_07 45:37

I appreciate that.

SPEAKER_00 45:38

Because they're gonna be the ones like truly trailblazing.

SPEAKER_07 45:41

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 45:41

Because they're gonna learn from you, and then they're gonna be like, oh, I can build a business too.

SPEAKER_08 45:45

Yeah, they're in the next generation.

SPEAKER_00 45:46

Yeah, and then I don't have to rely on swimming to pay my bills. Like, that's insane. I mean, like that, I think would be the biggest goal and motivator for me is like not relying on one thing to pay my you know, bills every day.

SPEAKER_08 46:00

Imagine how much pressure you take off of having to perform.

SPEAKER_00 46:02

That's what I'm saying. Yeah, like you don't have to worry about people pulling your sponsorships if you don't make the the team because it's like, well, I make money from my videos now, I make money from my other sponsors and brand deals, and like I'm on commercials and whatever. It's like you're good. Yeah, and then I think you'll also perform better for sure. Because there's no pressure.

SPEAKER_07 46:21

No, exactly.

SPEAKER_00 46:22

How are you gonna prepare for this Olympics versus how you've prepped now for the last two?

SPEAKER_08 46:28

Oh, that's a good question.

SPEAKER_00 46:31

Because you're back in it with dad.

SPEAKER_08 46:32

Mm-hmm. Back in it with dad. I think it it kinda I kind of go back to what I did going into Tokyo. Tokyo was the most prepared I ever was. Now I'm not training the same way because I think my capacity was so much higher because I was younger, my body could handle more and I could recover quickly. Yeah, literally. I was like, give it to me, I'll go. Now I'm like, oh, let me stretch first. Like I just yeah, so I I think we approach it very technically, very um intentionally, towards like, okay, what do I need to do to be at top speed and then protect the body? Because as you get older, it's all about mobility and strength. And I do think so, in the sprinting world and swimming, things have changed quite a lot. And my dad and I have pioneered a lot of that movement, and there's a few other athletes now that have really shifted it too in becoming ultra ultra specific. Okay, so less volume, you know. In the 60s, the original swim methodology was grind the yardage, crazy drills, just pound the body. And if you survived it, you're a champion. But now it's like, okay, you can target one or two races, you can swim much less volume, yeah, be really short, high power work, you know, you can do stuff in the gym, like short translate, short bursts, you don't have to be in the water for hours. That's nice, you know, recovery becomes more of an emphasis. So I think those type of things play a huge role. And it's kind of hybrid. Very hybrid, yeah. Okay, cool. Yeah, and ultra short race pace training is like the terminology that we kind of like pioneered and pushed into the swimming world. Cool. We've modified it a little bit throughout my career and just my own personal findings. And then I think too, just running off of that, is like having the balance of life outside the pool. Yeah, which is I think really important. Being able to surf, um, have healthy relationships, good community, um, but being extremely dedicated, knowing, okay, I've got I mean, less than two years now. That is so crazy. Give absolutely everything I've got for a one-week well, I guess my selection process is a little weird now with some addition to the events.

SPEAKER_00 48:50

Yeah, when will you know if you're like selected for the team?

SPEAKER_08 48:54

So it'll be summer of 2028. So June, like a few months before the games, or like a month or two before the games, we have Olympic trials.

SPEAKER_00 49:02

What? Why did I think that it was like you knew for a while?

SPEAKER_08 49:07

Most sports it is. It is, right? Yeah, in some other countries, it's really early.

SPEAKER_00 49:11

It's almost like a year before.

SPEAKER_08 49:12

Yeah, I mean, surfing was like a year and a half. Surfing was actually one of the earliest. Um, but even some sports select differently too. There's like like multiple events with swimming, it's one event. The one thing that does change now is so they brought 50s of stroke into the Olympics for the first time. So we've never had 50 butterfly, 50 backstroke, and 50 breaststroke in the Olympics. So now we have all four fifties, uh, which is amazing for me because I am I'm the fastest in all four fifties added up aggregate in history. And so it's one of those things that I'm like, okay, I just gained three potential events.

SPEAKER_01 49:53

Yeah.

SPEAKER_08 49:54

And so I can shift my focus to being more power and like sprint focused, but with those additions, there's not an addition of roster size. So they're not allowing more athletes to compete in the Olympics, which is really tough. So you've got three new races, but you're gonna fill it with the same amount of athletes, and so that's why there's no specific cut. There's another competition that I have to go to in 2027. Okay, and I have to place top six in the world to guarantee a spot. But even if I win that, it doesn't mean I make the US team.

SPEAKER_00 50:30

Oh my god.

SPEAKER_08 50:31

Because I have to win it at US trials in 2028. So I essentially have to win it in 2027 just to guarantee that I have a place with world aquatics, like the governing body. But then to qualify. Who the hell makes these worlds today?

SPEAKER_00 50:47

It's so it's they need to hop in the pool and they need to do it. And what's weird is they shift it.

SPEAKER_08 50:52

So, like, where now the 50 fly could potentially be filled. So that what they do is this is really confusing for the viewers if you've never known anything about swimming.

SPEAKER_00 51:01

I don't know anything about swimming, but I'm still sad.

SPEAKER_08 51:03

Um they'll create a priority order.

SPEAKER_00 51:07

Okay.

SPEAKER_08 51:07

And so priority is like priority one would be first place in hunter-free, tutor-free, any original Olympic event.

SPEAKER_01 51:15

Okay.

SPEAKER_08 51:16

And and then second priority is second place. Third priority is gonna be I think it would be like maybe a relay spot, and then fourth priority would be 50 winner. Okay. But that's if the roster hasn't already been filled, which determine is determined by how many guys swim multiple events. Because it's only allowed to have like 25 guys on the team or something, or 50 or whatever.

SPEAKER_00 51:41

I don't know how it That's unbelievable.

SPEAKER_08 51:43

Yeah, so there was there was a world champs where I won the 50 fly. Okay, and NBC was like, Congratulations, you made the team, did the interview, everything. Come to the end of the meet. I wasn't selected to be on the team because the roster filled. What? And their priority selection put the 50 fly at fifth priority. So they're like, sucks a suck, you won the event, but you're not going. And I would have I could have won three medals at that World Champs.

SPEAKER_00 52:06

Oh my god.

SPEAKER_08 52:07

And it's just because USA swimming prioritized specific events over fifties of stroke because they don't think 50s of stroke are a legit event. But now they're Olympic races. It's a whole it's there's so much drama. Like we I'm sure you deal with it in gymnastics as well. Like I couldn't imagine, at least we're not being judged by and scored based off of it.

SPEAKER_00 52:30

You're picking up.

SPEAKER_08 52:31

That's one thing I'm fortunate about. It's you know, if I touch the wall first, I am the winner. Like, there's nothing.

SPEAKER_00 52:36

Just make sure your sports bro doesn't show.

SPEAKER_08 52:38

Yeah, literally, oh my goodness. Don't pick a veggie. What was the movie? Stick it. Stick it. I love that movie. It's so good.

SPEAKER_00 52:45

Me and my friend just reenacted it because she didn't be a next. So we literally reenacted a scene. It was so funny. Yeah. Oh my God. It's literally doing so well on my TikTok right now because everyone's just quoting the movie. It's so funny. It's a classic. Such a classic. That is so funny. I have a question. How do you like literally, how the hell do you not get neurotic going into a new Olympics? Because I feel like I would be really paranoid. Like every decision is gonna dictate, you know, how I do, and like how do you like still manage to like let loose and go out with your friends and allow for balance while having this like kind of large overarching goal?

SPEAKER_08 53:32

Um I I feel like it's never been hard for me just because I I don't place all my value in swimming. Okay, which is nice. I think maybe sometimes I wish I'd cared a little more. I think you're doing okay. No, like I care a lot. Yeah, yeah, that's not what I'm saying. I'm not saying I don't care. I care a lot because I'm not sure.

SPEAKER_00 53:58

But I get you, I get you.

SPEAKER_08 54:00

Yeah, it's just it's one of those things where I think at the end of the day, I have a lot of freedom to go have fun. And and I I do, I think people question like, okay, like, are you gonna be surfing big swell when it comes close, or are you gonna go snowboard a season before? Yeah, yeah, yeah. So there's risk, you know.

SPEAKER_00 54:16

We weren't allowed to snowboard while we were in season or really ever while we were competing.

SPEAKER_08 54:20

And I've I've never had anything in my contracts, which is nice. Nice. And but I do, I'm obviously very careful. Like, I know my limits. Like I'm an athlete. You know your body. Yeah, and I'm fortunate. I do think you know, most swimmers, it's changing now, but I think for the most part, swimmers aren't known as being the most athletic athletes, they're kind of like stuck to the pool. Like, that's all you can do.

SPEAKER_01 54:41

Yeah.

SPEAKER_08 54:42

But I'm very much an athlete first, swimmer second.

SPEAKER_01 54:45

Cool.

SPEAKER_08 54:45

And so, like when I was little in Kansas, like I learned how to fall off of dirt bikes. And like I rode dirt bikes, like we I jumped on trampolines, I was flipping all the time.

SPEAKER_01 54:56

We gotta get in the gym.

SPEAKER_08 54:57

Like, I know how to do these things. Like, I I I'm very in tune to my body, yeah. That like I'm not gonna go bomb a double black diamond thinking I can be like Sean White.

SPEAKER_00 55:06

I'm like, which I think is actually better because like you are familiar with the sports and the activities enough to know really where the limit is. Right. Because I think a lot of times, like the problem that people run into is they'd never done it before, and then they just send it thinking that they'll they'll be good at it because they're phenomenal at this one other sport. Yeah, and that's like, babe, that does not translate.

SPEAKER_08 55:26

Like well, and I got good friends that are good at those things, and they'll be like, hey, let's they'll guide you. Let's go off this one, not that one, type of thing, which is good, you know, so it keeps me honest. Yeah. Um, but yeah, no, I I think the balance and not becoming neurotic is that I can be super neurotic in the moment in the training, but then allow myself to kind of release and go surf or do something that gives my brain the ability to keep functioning.

SPEAKER_00 55:58

And to like turn off. Yeah. Like you you compartmentalize. Yeah. Because otherwise you're gonna burn out. No, or you're gonna resent your sport.

SPEAKER_08 56:04

Or you get there and say you miss it. Yeah. Or or you hit it and you're just like, I was so stressed. I couldn't actually enjoy the process. Yeah. Yeah. Like I want my whole career to be fun, and it has been. Like, even with the lows, is like I love I have the greatest job ever, and uh it's not like I'm making millions of dollars. Like I'm not just floating in it, but I love what I do. I haven't technically worked a day in my life.

SPEAKER_00 56:32

I love that. I always say that too. I'm like, I will never work a day in my life. Yeah, I'm just gonna keep doing what I love.

SPEAKER_08 56:36

Right. Like, I get paid to take really good care of my body and have an eight-pack.

SPEAKER_00 56:40

Oh, yeah. Epic is that.

SPEAKER_08 56:42

Like, why not? So I'm not gonna do anything to jeopardize it.

SPEAKER_00 56:47

That is so funny. Is there ever a time, like, was there ever a time in your career where you did burn out?

SPEAKER_08 56:53

Um never from the training or the racing.

SPEAKER_00 57:01

Because it was all the outside noise, outside noise.

SPEAKER_08 57:04

Yeah, I think the only things that really ever caused burnout for me was like emotional stress. And and emotional stress came from family or relationships, and it wasn't always like a bad thing, but it was just enough to take my focus away from swimming that I just became so frustrated.

SPEAKER_04 57:26

Yeah.

SPEAKER_08 57:26

Because I think instead of swimming becoming an outlet, it kind of became more of a like a shoot, like a bird. That area of my life feels shitty. Yeah. I need to now overcompensate over here. And it was like wasn't a very healthy balance versus you know, life is good and I show up to the pool excited to work because I'm healthy and I'm excited to push my body to this limit because I know that everything's cool. Like I can step out and have this balance. So yeah, that's kind of like the weird back and forth that I play.

SPEAKER_00 58:01

I love that. I really think you're gonna inspire so many people though, because I think a lot of times, especially with swimming, I've seen just this extreme level of focus.

SPEAKER_08 58:13

Yeah, and that's what we've been told, taught by Michael Phelps. Yeah, and it's amazing and it works, but you know, he's he'd be the first person to say, you know, he stepped away from the sport and hated himself, hated swimming, you know, it was really unhealthy. He had a really unhealthy relationship with training, and it created the most incredible athlete in history. Yeah, and he's very fortunate to have come out of it on the other side with a beautiful wife, beautiful kids, like a healthy family and understanding through a lot of work that he had to undo, you know. And I don't know Michael personally, you know, I've spoken to him a handful of times, but it's awesome to see him now on the other side realizing that. And I think a lot of what he speaks about isn't just like the grind and he's not encouraging it. No, yeah, it's like like hey, learn from the real life is outside the pool, you know, and obviously there's a time and a place for grinding, locking in, kind of being selfish and all of that. Um but you gotta learn to balance the two, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 59:18

And I I think knowing that there is an alternative route is huge.

SPEAKER_06 59:24

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 59:24

I mean, even with you pioneering this completely different training, yeah, it's gonna open a lot of athletes' eyes, I think in a lot of sports, to be like, this doesn't just have to be this way. There could be so many other routes that we could take in order to be successful. And I think a lot of times too, like the more self-aware you are, the more you know about how your body mechanics are. Like I knew, thank God I was extremely in tune with my body as well in college, and I ended up having to have a meeting with my weights coach and be like, hey, I can't lift heavy like the other girls. Yeah, not because I can't physically do it, right? I can lift really heavy, but I shouldn't because I really struggle with flexibility and mobility. And all it's doing is combating all the work I'm doing. Yeah, and it's making my tumbling smaller because my hips are closed and I'm not getting any power and extension. And so, like knowing those mechanics about myself and then having the ability to be independent and be like, hey, yeah, I really feel passionately about this. They were like, Oh, we respect it. That's okay. And so then during the heavy lifts, the like the actual Olympic lifting session of our training, I would stretch. And I'm like, and my teammates understood. They were like, we got it. Like, and I told them, I was like, I if I can come in and test at the level that you want me to test at without doing any weights training, will you let me do this? And they were like, Yep. And I lifted heavier than anyone.

SPEAKER_08 1:00:47

That's so cool. What a blessing, too, that you had that and a team that was like, okay, we're not gonna push that.

SPEAKER_00 1:00:52

Because they recognize like everyone has their strengths and weaknesses, and if we continue to lean into the strength, it's like we're gonna be one-sided.

SPEAKER_08 1:01:01

Right.

SPEAKER_00 1:01:01

It's not gonna, you're not gonna be a hybrid, you're not gonna have balance.

SPEAKER_08 1:01:04

But I think it's also up to the athlete, which is you being like, hey, very like you said, very in tune to what you do. And a lot of athletes aren't. Yeah. That's why that's what kind of separates the good from the great, or someone that can really excel in a sport is someone that has stepped back and really hyper-analyzed and been in tune with it. But that's also a gifting, that's something that's kind of naturally there.

SPEAKER_00 1:01:28

You gotta work hard at it though, I will say. Like, you gotta be very, very hyper-aware of really truly what you need as an individual because like it is easy when you're on a team to get lumped into what everyone's doing.

SPEAKER_06 1:01:38

Sure.

SPEAKER_00 1:01:38

And then you look around and you're like, why am I not excelling? But this person is yeah, you can't tailor a training to every single individual. So you as the individual kind of have to, you know, yeah.

SPEAKER_08 1:01:50

Which is where I think I was really fortunate growing up being the only guy in the pool because it was always just eyes. Always on me. It's like we were constantly tweaking, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:01:59

And I think and tailoring younger.

SPEAKER_08 1:02:01

And then had I been in a program growing up, I probably wouldn't have had the same well, maybe I would have, but to different levels. Like I wouldn't have been as in tune.

SPEAKER_00 1:02:09

He gave you the edge.

SPEAKER_08 1:02:10

Yeah, for sure.

SPEAKER_00 1:02:11

Because you had that attention. You're an attention whore.

SPEAKER_07 1:02:14

Yeah, yeah. You're a princess. Oh yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:02:17

He goes to ASU for one year and he's like, Where's the attention? I'm out of here. Okay, well, we need to shift to a segment I do here on the show called Dear Athlete.

SPEAKER_03 1:02:26

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 1:02:27

And it's like a fun little kind of fast-paced advice column for athletes listening that just wanna get our wisdom.

SPEAKER_07 1:02:34

Heck yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:02:35

So, first question for athletes who feel stuck or plateaued, what's something that you would tell them to change immediately?

SPEAKER_08 1:02:43

Hmm. I don't think I would encourage anyone to change something physically immediately. I think for me, what I do when I am in a plateau, I kind of go back to why I do something in the first place. So a lot of it is more a mental thing.

SPEAKER_02 1:03:00

I love that.

SPEAKER_08 1:03:01

So I remind myself, why am I doing it?

SPEAKER_02 1:03:03

Your why.

SPEAKER_08 1:03:04

And I think a lot of plateau happens when people lose sight of a goal or a vision or a purpose. And so if you can do some journaling, it's as simple as writing down like what do I love about swimming? How does it draw me closer to other people? What are my goals? Or whatever it is. How do I want to work in a sport? Yeah, what what sort of effect do I want to leave behind? Um but I think that's helped me because I recognized when I first started swimming, the reason I loved it was because it felt like a superpower. That's I was like, this is something I can do that other people can't experience at my level. I can relate to that. Yeah, and so I was like when you start chasing accolades and records and all these things pile up on top of it, you start to forget about why you started in the first place and why you loved what you did. So you lose the joy of your sport.

SPEAKER_01 1:03:57

Yeah.

SPEAKER_08 1:03:57

And so I think if you can kind of go back and have a fresh perceptivise, long answer short, know your why.

SPEAKER_00 1:04:05

I love it. Yeah, I could not agree more. I think for me, the second there's I mean, we both have talked about like hating feeling stagnant and always chasing growth. But yeah, I think just finding your why, reminding yourself of of some things that you lost sight of, but also maybe stepping away for a second. Yeah. Like I mean, I know a lot of athletes who have had some pretty devastating feelings towards their sport where they just they lost the love for it and they had to step away and they came back and they were better.

SPEAKER_06 1:04:42

Right.

SPEAKER_00 1:04:42

And I don't think there's anything wrong with that.

SPEAKER_06 1:04:45

No.

SPEAKER_00 1:04:45

And I I thankfully never had a point in my career where I hated the sport, but I had a lot of teammates that did. And I really am curious like if that would have helped them.

SPEAKER_08 1:04:56

Right. Well secure the burnout. Exactly. And it gives you a space to the same thing, he's like stepping away gives you that opportunity to again kind of realize what was it in the first place to me. Like, why did I do it?

SPEAKER_00 1:05:08

Well, and like you could be resenting practice, you know, for a year, and then you, you know, you quit or retire for six weeks, and you're like, oh my god, I miss it. You don't know what you have till it's gone. And I think that is a really good wake-up call to kind of reset the gratitude scale and yeah, and put yourself back in the present moment.

SPEAKER_06 1:05:26

Definitely. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:05:27

Love that. Okay. Second one is what's a mistake that you see the younger generation of athletes making over and over again that's holding them back.

SPEAKER_05 1:05:38

Ooh.

SPEAKER_00 1:05:42

I have one. Yeah, I'm curious. Yeah, yeah, go first.

SPEAKER_07 1:05:45

I'm curious what your take.

SPEAKER_00 1:05:46

I think social media is gonna be the downfall of sports.

SPEAKER_06 1:05:51

For sure.

SPEAKER_00 1:05:52

But I think it'll also, I think there's basically what I think is gonna happen is there's gonna be a massive gap between The ones who gave up really soon because they wanted the instant gratification of winning or being really good really fast and not knowing how to put the work in. And then the ones who are just freaks because they grew up obsessing over these incredible athletes who basically opened the door for opportunity for them to be like, that's what's possible.

SPEAKER_06 1:06:22

Right.

SPEAKER_00 1:06:22

Because I didn't grow up in gymnastics with like really YouTube. And I've seen now like athletes who have been able to watch Simone Biles and over and over and over and over again.

SPEAKER_06 1:06:32

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:06:33

And they see what's out there and what potential there is.

SPEAKER_06 1:06:36

Interesting.

SPEAKER_00 1:06:37

And so it inspires them to be more sendy, to be more brave, to do more. But then I also think with the other side of it being kind of negative, is just like assuming that when you see all these highlight reels, that that's all there is to it. And not seeing how much work goes into it.

SPEAKER_08 1:06:59

It's fascinating. That's why I started filming training vlogs. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:07:01

Because I wanted to help younger athletes. It's not just understand it's not just one clip. It's there's millions that go into it every day. And there's tons of mistakes. Yeah. And also reprogramming their brains to laugh at their mistakes or smile at messing up and not be so hard on themselves.

SPEAKER_08 1:07:21

Yeah, I think that's super valuable. I like that. I think mine's kind of along the similar line where it's like I don't think I early on was as focused on the importance of compound effect and the compound effect being little things over time.

SPEAKER_01 1:07:37

Yeah.

SPEAKER_08 1:07:38

You know, it's easy to think, okay, you know, like it's like the same attitude, like Rome wasn't built in the day.

SPEAKER_01 1:07:42

Yeah.

SPEAKER_08 1:07:43

You can't just become an Olympic champion. It does happen over time. Um, and that starts with I think most people, their part of the issue is they create one goal. Their goal is, I want to be an Olympic champion. But then you can ask them, well, how the hell are you gonna get there?

SPEAKER_01 1:08:00

Yeah.

SPEAKER_08 1:08:00

And so what I was taught by mentors and friends is you have your your big goal and you've got like your mini clouds on the way. But these mini clouds are essentially a ladder towards your big one. Yeah. That's key. So what are what like you can set a goal for a practice? Yeah. What's my goal to achieve this practice? What's my goal this week? What's my goal this season? What's my goal for this race, this race, this race? Obviously, you don't have to go overboard, but figure out, you know, what sort of things can you do along the way that are a stair step towards where you're headed. That way, you know, whether you get there or not, you're still excelling and achieving and moving upwards versus You're chipping away. Yeah, if you have nothing in between, you're gonna get to the end of your career and feel like, shoot, I didn't accomplish anything. Yeah. Which is so untrue about every athlete that's ever stepped away from the sport.

SPEAKER_01 1:08:55

Yeah.

SPEAKER_08 1:08:55

Except in their mind, they believe they've not achieved anything because that's what they tell themselves based on how they created goals.

SPEAKER_00 1:09:02

Yeah. And how they frame what success looks like.

SPEAKER_08 1:09:05

Right.

SPEAKER_00 1:09:06

And I mean, another really good one is also I think putting all your value in shit you can't control. Like gymnastics is all about shit you can't control. You can't control who you're competing against, you can't control what score you get, what the judges think. Because some judges may love flexibility and you're not flexible at all, but then some judges may love power.

SPEAKER_08 1:09:25

And so it's crazy to me. I can't control that. Drive me crazy as an athlete. Like, how do you buy it? How do you I'm I mean, I guess this is kind of going off a tangent, but how do you combat that? Like, how do you mentally cope with okay, like a judge could miss like score me incorrectly? Is that possible? Like, how do you yeah all the time? Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:09:46

I mean, it's completely subjective. They're human beings. They could blink, they could have something in their eye, they could miss, you know, some people think you went out of bounds and you didn't, or like, like, I mean, and we don't have instant replay. Yeah. Crazy. I think recognizing that they're human, giving them grace.

SPEAKER_06 1:10:06

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:10:06

And like I don't know, kind of like tying back to what we said in the beginning. It's like, if it's not meant for me, it's not mine.

SPEAKER_06 1:10:14

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:10:14

And if I think I got a perfect 10 at the exact time that I needed to get a perfect 10. And I wouldn't have it any other way. I don't think it wouldn't have I don't think it would have been as sweet if I had gotten like three before that. You know what I mean?

SPEAKER_06 1:10:30

Interesting.

SPEAKER_00 1:10:30

I just, I don't know. It's kind of a weird take, but I don't regret having only one.

SPEAKER_07 1:10:37

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:10:37

And also I I still look back on my career though and think I've done, I think I did at least three or four perfect routines.

SPEAKER_06 1:10:46

Really?

SPEAKER_00 1:10:47

Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_06 1:10:47

Wow.

SPEAKER_00 1:10:48

So I know that about myself.

SPEAKER_06 1:10:49

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:10:50

I can take that to the grave and be proud of myself for all the hard work that I did. And I feel like I competed at the standard that I I had held myself at. Was it at the standard that the judges had set that one specific day? Maybe not. But at the end of the day, I'm not gonna cry myself to sleep over it because that's also what makes your sport unique.

SPEAKER_07 1:11:10

Yeah. You know, which is so wild. So wild to me. Dang, you guys are drinking.

SPEAKER_00 1:11:14

I'm like, I'll take a judge telling me uh, you know, I'm not perfect over a judge telling me I'm fat any day.

SPEAKER_07 1:11:20

So yeah, fair.

SPEAKER_00 1:11:21

Or a person on the internet calling me fat any day. It's just like pick your poison, you know, like you're gonna be judged regardless.

SPEAKER_07 1:11:28

Yeah, true.

SPEAKER_00 1:11:29

And it comes with the it comes with the territory. So okay, third and last one. What's the best piece of advice you ever received?

SPEAKER_08 1:11:38

Oh. I so I get asked this a lot, and it's ew, wait, then maybe I want to change. No, but not not in a bad way. No, it's a good, it's a really good question.

SPEAKER_00 1:11:47

It's like, ew, is it basic?

SPEAKER_08 1:11:48

No, but I just feel like I don't have it's hard because I don't have like a profound answer. I'm trying to think.

SPEAKER_00 1:11:56

That's kind of fair.

SPEAKER_08 1:11:58

I feel like the advice I go back to a lot is from a mentor of mine. Um, he was a bit of a spiritual mentor, very wise, very smart, writes books, speaks multiple languages, like crazy. This guy's nuts.

SPEAKER_02 1:12:16

Wow.

SPEAKER_08 1:12:17

And what he taught me and our group, we were in a Bible study together, was it's kind of a question you ask yourself. And a lot of it ties to my like how I deal with pressure and like having a purpose-based identity over a performance-based identity, yeah, which I believe kind of rings true through my career. Um, is after every race or trial or whatever, to ask yourself, it's kind of like your debrief.

SPEAKER_01 1:12:49

Yeah.

SPEAKER_08 1:12:49

How has this brought me joy? So, how has this race brought me joy, or how has this opportun this event brought me joy? How has it drawn me closer to others? And how has it drawn me closer to God?

SPEAKER_02 1:13:00

I love that.

SPEAKER_08 1:13:01

And what's interesting in those three things is there's the personal component, the selfish, okay, I love this. Like, this brought me joy because I I'm doing what I love or what I was gifted to, or standing in my calling, whatever. The others, I was there with my teammates, or I got to experience someone else when or your community they celebrated with me after when type of thing. And then God is like, I I believe that my gift is I believe God gave me a gift to swim. I think we all have gifts. It's up to us to discover those gifts. And I think you know, swimming as much as it's something that serves me, it's also an outlet to exemplify, hey, God gave me this ability, so I'm swimming forehead. Yeah. That's and that's I think what takes a lot of the pressure off of winning, losing, is like knowing, okay, you know what, at the end of the race, I can look up and say, hey, I gave everything. The result was predetermined, whether I like it or not. Whether I'm eighth or last, I'm loved by my friends, my community, and I know that God doesn't care about swimming. So we're good.

SPEAKER_00 1:14:07

I love that. That's so beautiful.

SPEAKER_08 1:14:09

So those are my that's my takeaway.

SPEAKER_00 1:14:10

I'm gonna start doing that with everything I do.

SPEAKER_08 1:14:12

Honestly, and it's like that's so applicable to life and it's like huge, and it's it's very similar to writing down like gratitude, like gratitude journaling, like five things I'm grateful for. Because it changes the way you think and approach something to be very like positive. You know, you're not gonna be like, oh, this didn't draw me closer to God.

SPEAKER_00 1:14:28

Yeah, it does, it always does, always does, and it it's something that also like there's so much light in it, which I love, and you're just you're constantly shifting your perspective to look for the good. Yeah, and I wish more people did that for sure, especially in sport. It's important, especially when you're performance focused. Yeah, it's like always so negative, hard to get away from. Yeah, well, thank you so much for coming.

SPEAKER_07 1:14:52

That's amazing.

SPEAKER_00 1:14:53

Well, I am so hyped to see what you do. Thank you. You have such a bright and beautiful future ahead.

SPEAKER_07 1:15:00

Likewise.

SPEAKER_00 1:15:01

I am just I'm over the moon that we got to do this, and you're very wise beyond your years.

SPEAKER_07 1:15:06

Thank you. I try.

SPEAKER_00 1:15:08

Be sure to follow him on everything. He's doing some really cool stuff. You're vlogging on YouTube.

SPEAKER_08 1:15:13

I'm trying, I'm doing it all. Okay, vlog. Many hats, many hats.

SPEAKER_00 1:15:16

So be sure to go support him. He deserves his flowers and catch him in LA.

SPEAKER_08 1:15:22

Appreciate it. In 2028. We'll see you guys in the sports swap next.

SPEAKER_00 1:15:25

See you in the sports swap. Yes, you guys comment for the sport swap. We're doing the sports swap ASAP. I'm going out to Oahu. Yeah. Honestly, guys, comment so we can pay for my trip to Oahu.

SPEAKER_08 1:15:34

Yeah. Let's get some brands to pay for it. We know you're watching.

SPEAKER_00 1:15:39

Why don't we just like freaking magazine poster childs today? But I'm still here for it.

SPEAKER_08 1:15:44

Rolex, come on.

SPEAKER_00 1:15:48

All right, you guys. I love you so much. Thank you for tuning in, and I will see you next Wednesday. Bye.