Athletes After Hours with Gracie Kramer

Gracie & Jess on Fighting, Extreme Abuse, & Overcoming Hardship

• Gracie Kramer • Season 1 • Episode 12

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In this episode of Athletes After Hours, I sit down with professional fighter Jess Evans to talk about the adversity she’s faced throughout her life — surviving an abusive relationship, navigating unimaginable family loss, suffering a stroke, and somehow continuing to show up for life with the most beautiful energy and positive mindset. This conversation is raw, emotional, inspiring, and deeply human in every sense of the word. Jess opens up about resilience, healing, identity, and the choice to keep moving forward even when life gives you every reason not to. I can honestly say this episode changed the way I look at life, and I truly believe it will change something in you too. If you’ve ever needed a reminder of the strength human beings are capable of carrying, this episode is for you. 

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SPEAKER_01

Hey Adhesaptor Hours listeners, you can now watch on Spotify. If you're subscribed to Spotify Premium, you can watch ad free. Now let's get into the episode. Trigger warning. This episode contains deeply personal conversations surrounding domestic violence, addiction, and mental health. Some parts of this conversation may be difficult for certain listeners, so please listen with care and prioritize your well-being. We're incredibly grateful to Jess for sharing her story so openly and vulnerably, and we hope that this episode reminds people they're not alone. If you or a loved one are seeking professional help, I've listed resources in the description below.

SPEAKER_00

He made my nose bleed, he punched me, made my nose bleed, and then he spin back kicked me into a mirror. But what I realized in that moment is that I could do sports my whole life. I could like no be very physical and everything, but I literally had no idea how to defend myself. Nothing prepares you for losing somebody in your family. If all the fighting was for anything, it was for this fight. I just refused to let life win.

SPEAKER_01

She's a former Muay Thai competitor who became a three-time state champion in Australia and built an impressive 12-fight amateur combat sports career across Muay Thai and boxing. Since stepping out of the ring, she's become a boxing coach, on-screen talent for fight camp, and an international fitness educator teaching boxing, kickboxing, and the art of group fitness around the world. She's also a stunt martial arts coach for film and a powerful advocate who uses her voice to support those impacted by abusive relationships through speak engagements and self-defense workshops. Jess Evans, welcome to Athletes After Hours.

SPEAKER_00

Thank you for having me. That is a mouthful. That was a beautiful introduction. Thank you. Your girl's booked and busy. Yeah. How are you? I'm really good. I'm actually really glad to be here. I'm so glad you could come. Yeah. Speaking of booked and busy.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, we're just talking about busy. Literally just girl bossing left and right.

SPEAKER_00

Hey, we need more of that, especially like in the in the athlete space in general. So it's pretty cool to see it.

SPEAKER_01

Thanks for having me. Of course. You've been an incredible inspiration to me already. And we've literally known each other for like two weeks.

SPEAKER_00

I was just about to say two weeks. Yeah, like two weeks. I feel the same.

SPEAKER_01

But I feel like there is something so special about being able to do a sport swap before we get to yap on the pod. True. Because we get like that. It's like an icebreaker for sure. To like the 10th degree.

SPEAKER_00

And actually, I'm really glad we also started with kickboxing first. Yes. Started in your comfort zone. Yeah, yeah. Set the expectation from there and then moved on to gymnastics. But um yeah, I agree. I think it was a good icebreaker to do something physical. Yeah. We're physical people. Yes.

SPEAKER_01

It was so fun. And learning kickboxing from you was incredible. I mean, getting to watch you like up close do the technique that you have and just hit the bag in a way that I've like never really seen before. Because I obviously did a little bit of stunts here and there, but no one was really like the goal was to not hit each other. You know what I mean? Yeah, yeah. Whereas now we're like, hit it as hard as you can. Literally, like you're in survival mode. And so all I could think about was just you in the ring. And I just needed to have you on the pod because I need to hear so much more about your experience in fighting and afterwards and everything. So let's get into it. Perfect. How did you even get into fighting in the first place?

SPEAKER_00

Yes, I I get this question all the time because when I'm just out and about and when we people or when people first meet me, and then I eventually we get into the conversation of oh, what do you do? And we get into fighting. People are jaw-dropped. They're like, wait, what? Because it's niche. Well, and it's also just you don't, especially back when I started, you don't see a lot of it for women. Yeah. And then also, you know, like I'm you're gonna dress up and they're like, wait a minute, you don't look like you've gotten hit. I'm like, well, that's the point, I hope, to not get hit a lot. Yeah. But I it's actually kind of crazy how I got into martial arts. I always was an athlete growing up. I've started playing sports since I was four, you know. I'm from the Midwest, from Kansas City, and there you start doing sports like out of the womb. And did that all my my whole life growing up, and I was like very active and in multiple, multiple um like modalities. But then it was actually a little bit later on in my life, I want to say that I had just graduated high school and I got into my first relationship. And because I never really wanted to date growing up, I was also like a little bit sheltered, being you know, like from a very small town in the Midwest, and um got into a relationship. This person was a fighter. And it's crazy because if you don't have any dating experience and you grow up a little bit sheltered, you just don't really have any expectation for what dating you don't know. You have no idea. And I actually ended up walking myself into a pretty bad relationship. Um, it was one time physically abusive, but it was mentally and emotionally abusive as well. And I mean, I kind of like want to talk about it a little bit, but I would say that there was like one moment when there was a physical altercation between us where he was trying to kind of like assert his dominance and he made my nose bleed, he punched me, made my nose bleed, and then he spin back kicked me into a mirror. And it's it's like interesting because now I'm on the other side of it, so I feel, you know, I was able to take that painful situation and turn it into a great one. But what I realized in that moment is that I could do sports my whole life, I could like know, be very physical and everything, but I literally had no idea how to defend myself, yeah. And that was really scary. And what's scarier is the fact that I didn't leave the relationship right away, even though I was in it and I resented him at the same moment. Yeah, it's almost as if like because I was so depressed and in such like a dark place, it's almost like this like dependency I had on him as well.

SPEAKER_01

Well, he created that power dynamic, he did, and you don't realize how much manipulation. First of all, I just have to say, I'm so sorry. Yeah, it's okay. That's fucked, honestly, for lack of better words. Like, that's so not okay. Yeah, and it actually like was like a gut punch just then to like even hear that. Like I can't even imagine like yeah, shoving you, let alone doing something like that. Like, that's the most insane thing ever, and ew. But there is a ton of studies behind for sure.

SPEAKER_00

I'm sure you've gotten so into it, but like I would say, like obviously in the beginning, there just was like a lot of hurt. So when I got out of the relationship, which I'm so grateful that I got out of it, but it's just because it was just the per this perpetuous cycle, and it got worse towards the end, and I finally decided to walk away from the relationship. I think he was surprised. Really? I was young, yeah. I was only 19. So I was 18. How old was he? 24. Ugh. 23 or 24. So he's quite a bit older than me. He knew he was dying. Oh, yeah. Well, what I find out later on, like much later on, is that this was a cycle. It wasn't like a one-time, like one and done. Like this was kind of like a cycle. But I think what I realized, like once I removed myself from the situation, is like a like I had a lot of like anger, which that anger then turned into, I'm gonna learn how to fight. Yeah, you channeled it, which is so crazy. I'm like, who thinks of that? But I was just like, I he's never gonna touch me again. This person, no one's gonna ever touch me like this again. And and then I would say another thing that I realized in that situation, looking back at the relationship, was he did isolate me. He real there was like certain tactics that he pulled that was a hundred percent like manipulation and isolation, which is very common in in any form of abuse. Because you know, abuse is not just one thing, it's it's a trifecta of of many different things. And I was isolated and pulled away from my family, moved in with him against like my parents' wishes, and then he even had the nerve to like kick me out, but I had nowhere to go. So this is like the tactics that they pull, right? So then it's keep you in competency, yeah.

SPEAKER_01

Because then you're like, oh my gosh, I am codependent on this person because now I have nowhere to live. And it's a control dynamic, yeah. And then another and then like and your relationships suffer because of it because you're now isolated. 100%.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, yeah. Oh yeah, I barely talked to anybody. I was like under under a hundred pounds. Um You're on like house like house arrest. It was crazy, it was crazy. And then um, once I did also get out of the relationship, he even had like the nerve to attempt suicide and blame it on me. And this is I want to bring this up. I know it's a very sensitive subject, but I want to bring this up because this is very common in abusive dynamics where someone will try exactly, and it's trying to re-gain control by putting all of these manipulation tactics on you, like, oh, this will be your fault if this happens. Well, especially emotionally driven.

SPEAKER_01

Like that's what I really trigger that emotion in you, especially the nurturing, you know, maternal side of you, where you're like, oh my god, like I loved this person at one point. Yeah, it's going to hit different.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah. And and that's what they and that's what they're doing.

SPEAKER_01

Unless you want to be is responsible for someone's like harm.

SPEAKER_00

Well, you always want to take it seriously. Yes. You and and it is such like um a double-edged sword because at this point we were already broken up, and it was again to try to regain control. So I, you know, I did contact his family. I was like, hey, just letting you know that this was said to me, it take it seriously. And then the next day, this is the part I'll never forget. Because I was like, run, Jessica. Like don't even consider like going back to the situation. I would be a completely different person if I had stayed. Um, and by the way, at this point, I hadn't started fighting yet. This was wow, I didn't start fighting until two years later. But um he gave me, I I called him because I wanted to make sure he was okay. He was at the hospital. He doesn't say anything except for when he picks up the phone. When I when he finally picks up the phone, he's like, Do you believe me now? I was like, Oh, I'm I'm out of this. I'm sorry.

SPEAKER_01

Like that's all he cared about.

SPEAKER_00

That's all he cared about. He it was not really about it, it it was just it was like an attention grab to regain control. And again, it was emotional abuse, it was mental abuse. And had I stayed in that relationship, I don't know what would have happened, but I bet you it would have been an ongoing abusive relationship if you if these signs were already being your life would have been very much threatened, completely different.

SPEAKER_01

I mean, already like kicking you into a mirror, yeah, you genuinely don't know. Like, no, the glass could have shattered, it could have cut you, it could have hit you in a really vulnerable spot, you could have already had your life in danger. For sure. Thank God you're okay. Right. But I mean, that's one instance out of how many that you experienced, right? That you were able to survive and then still walk out kind of not unscathed, but safer to a degree. No, a hundred percent. No, like your life was seriously in danger for a long time.

SPEAKER_00

It was. Well, I mean, the good news is is I was only I know some situations, I've talked to a lot of women, like after this situation. And you know what's crazy? A lot of women that get into boxing or fighting come from domestic violence. Wow. I've I've really connected with a lot of women that are like, that was the same situation that happened to me. That happened to me. And I'm which I also think that's why it's so powerful to share our stories. I know it's hard to be vulnerable and to talk about these things, especially if they were such painful moments, or like if if sometimes we don't want to like relive the experience, right? But I actually think that we go through painful things to help people. Yeah. I think otherwise, why would we go through it? It would almost be like a waste. Yeah. I feel like we go through that so then we can help, you know, whoever it is, um, walk through that season or see the other side of it. So I'm not saying I will never, ever, ever condone violence. I will never condone abuse, but I don't regret anything I've been through because I wouldn't be where I am today.

SPEAKER_01

So no, and I think truly, like God gave you your voice, yeah, and He helped you feel confident in your ability to speak on these topics or to be vulnerable because truly, like, I could not give you more flowers for doing that. It's so difficult. I mean, yeah, I've come from some really sketchy situations myself, and like I've never actually spoken out about it. Oh, wow. And so it's like, I think one of those things where yes, a lot of people unfortunately go through things. Yeah. But like it's such a big testament to you and your character to be able to not only speak on it, but to use it as fuel to help others, right? And to change an entire era of what women deserve. Agree. And empowering women to leave those toxic situations and know that they're stronger than that.

SPEAKER_00

Right. Well, it's sad because like if you think about our generations, right? We're in such a great time where it is okay for women to speak up, but it wasn't like that for such a long time. If you look at like systematically, yeah, no one believes them. No one exactly. It's a power dynamic again of like men versus women. And but what's sad is that also, you know, boys get uh abused as well. Yeah, like we're seeing like crazy patterns of all sorts of abuse. But again, or there was something else I was gonna highlight is um this is so like let's say like abuse and in some people's case, you know, like rape and everything, most of these cases go unreported. So it it's not being talked about because people feel shame or they're embarrassed or they're worried for their life because of like the threats that they're receiving. So all I'm saying is like disclaimer like if you do find yourself in an abusive relationship, like know that it is okay to seek help. And actually, you should seek help because you can't do it on your own and you need the right people around you, whether that's a support system or law enforcement or whatever, and that you can get out of it and that there is light at the end of the tunnel. I think people need to see the hope in it. Absolutely.

SPEAKER_01

And I think too, what a lot of people don't realize is even if you report it, it can be anonymous. Yes, you don't have to relive. I think that's the tough thing, is a lot of times you when you do report it or you you know take things to a an extreme level with getting law enforcement involved and stuff, it's like people are nervous to have to relive it because you do have to like go to court and testify against that person and and look them in the face. And yeah, it's a huge, huge burden for someone who's broken and beaten down and just not themselves anymore.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah. And especially if you're with someone because you've trauma bonded, yeah, it's like this psychological thing, it's it's a lot harder to walk away. They even so I'm also like really passionate about um human trafficking, about like ending human trafficking, which is like young women that are pulled into like sex sex slavery, pretty much. And what they talk about is that even for those women, it's hard for these young girls, it's hard for them to leave that situation because they truly believe that you know, with the abuse, with the neglect, with everything involved psychologically, they think that they love this person. Wow. And and that's the thing is it's like that same thing applies if you think about it in in like a relationship. You've been messed up so much mentally and in the emotional toll, like the manipulation it takes on you. You you think, okay, maybe it can get better. Maybe what they say is possible.

SPEAKER_01

Because they give you a glimmer of hope, and then that's a pool of breadcrumb that you hold on to and you're like cycle. Yeah. How long were you in this situation for about a year?

SPEAKER_00

Wow. So luckily it wasn't longer than that. Yeah, thankfully. Like I know some people that are in toxic relationships and situations like this for like five years, oh yeah, six years and more. But I I got out of that relationship early on. Wow.

SPEAKER_01

I mean, I was gonna say, you have such an incredible strong personality. Like it is really hard to see you in a situation like that.

unknown

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01

Even only knowing you for as long as I have, like, it's just it's it's really trippy. And I I mean it's kind of the same thing for me. I think a lot of people see us as like alpha females. Yeah. But even us, like, we get thrown into some really toxic situations.

SPEAKER_00

And well, I actually think that toxic men are attracted or they try to attract women like us because like a challenge break us down.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah. Yes.

SPEAKER_00

And that's what happened. Have you you know, like Charlie Brown? You know, the guy who walks around who's all muted. Yeah. And he's like muted color. That was me. And like I looked, I didn't look like myself. Yeah. Um, it like literally took like the color out of my life. So I just like to say that I was just trying to build the color back into my life. What was the breaking point? The breaking point was actually like around his birthday. I remember going to the club with him and the going to the club. Like, I like never went to the club, but I went to the club because that's what he wanted to do, and he had been doing drugs and he'd been drinking and everything. I know it's crazy. It was just a complete different person. I wasn't doing that, but he was I was the DD. Yes. And we had gotten to this huge fight, and we went there, and I just remember him like pushing me away and talking about talking about other girls. And I just think I was at such a low point that then watching him like disrespect me like that in front of so many people publicly and with his friends. And then it was the next morning he kicked me out of his apartment, and I and I think what I realized is like I literally what do you mean from where what do you mean you're kicking me out? I live here too. Yeah, but it I felt like I had no control of my life. Yeah, I had nowhere to go. So I think the breaking point for me was just like it had been a buildup, right? There had been like so many circ like situations that had happened. He would just the straw that broke the camel's back. It just finally broke it. Yeah, I was like, I have nowhere to go. I have nobody. So I I know it sounds like really pitiful, but I called my sister and she worked at a bar in Kansas. Oh, this is like 10 a.m. or something, and I was like, hey, I was like, can I come to work? And I literally, no joke, sat at the bar and cried the entire time, her whole shift. And I said, I need you to go with me to get my stuff because I'm leaving him. Yeah. And you need someone to go with me. I don't know if I'll do it. Yeah. And she was like, Wow. So my sister, I mean, she really showed up for me. And that's why I say, like, you really need to have at least one person in your life that will show up for you no matter what. I think it's whether that's a sibling, a cousin, a best friend, a mom, or like a whatever, you need one person in your life that can show up for you when you need it. And I also needed these people to remind me why I shouldn't go back or be in this relationship. Yeah. And honestly, I I did. I finally I did it for myself. And the thing about me is like once I make a decision, it's like a light bulb. I'm like, yeah, that's it. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01

You're very action-oriented.

SPEAKER_00

Oh, yeah. I was like, I'm not going back. Yeah. I have to. Now it didn't mean it wasn't hard. Oh, yeah. But so glad I did. And then, and then I went away. And after I went away, that's when I was like, oh man, I'm gonna like after I got over the sadness, I was like, oh man, I'm gonna, I'm gonna learn how to fight. I'm gonna learn, I'm gonna make sure this never happens again. And then that was the next step for me was just wanting to learn how to defend myself. It wasn't even fighting, it was just, I want to learn how to defend myself. You just hated the way you felt, feeling so helpless, so vulnerable. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01

Emotions arose a little bit for you when you were talking about your sister. Like what kind of pulled on you there?

SPEAKER_00

I just think for me when you're in really dark places, I think sometimes the reason why people people stay is because they don't feel like they have anybody there. And I think that that level of hopelessness is so sad. And that's the reason why, like, I want to like be that like inspiration of hope or thing for someone that needs to see it. That's why to me, like social media is so much more than just like day in the life, and this is glamorous. It's like you actually have the power to impact people that have walked through something that you have or could potentially one day. And that's why I'm really passionate about like speaking about your story. And it's not again to like harp on the hard things that we've been through.

SPEAKER_01

No, I I think you do a really good job of highlighting the moments that truly are lessons to help people move forward. Move forward and and learn from the mistakes that we made.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, and I do think that when I think about how my sister showed up for me, I just hope that I can I can be that for other people. No, you know. That's beautiful. Yeah. I want to be that, I want to be that for other people, other women, like men as well, but like other women that like need to get out of those those relationships. I want to be that strength for them when they can't be it for themselves. I love that.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, that's so beautiful. I mean, I can't even imagine how much strength and courage it took for you to check your ego at the door and and ask for help, even. Right. Like even going to your yeah, like even going to your sister's bar and like asking for help. Yeah. Like, especially because I wasn't talking to them really. Exactly. Like, I can't even imagine. The moment you said that, I was like, that took guts to even do that. But it showed also how desperate you were. I was so desperate. Desperate in such a dangerous situation.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah. I was desperate. So I think for me, I was just like, what's the thing that's closest to me that yeah, because I I felt out of control in my mind. And again, because I didn't feel like I had anywhere to go.

SPEAKER_01

I think what's also really important to note here is that anyone that has a loved one that has isolated themselves, like see them with empathy. Yeah, you can't do it. Because imagine what's going on. It gave you the cold shoulder. Do you know what I mean? Like your life would be different forever.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah. I agree. And that's hard, right? That's hard like people. Yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01

She let you in and she she accepted that even though you guys had a distant relationship, like you were always gonna be there for one another. And that's really beautiful that she did that for you. She's goat. Yeah, she's goated for sure. When did you start channeling this rage? When I was 21. Okay. Yeah. At a lot of rate. Did you have to go to therapy after the relationship?

SPEAKER_00

You know what's crazy is I should have.

SPEAKER_01

Okay. But it's impressive that you did it, honestly. I didn't. Because I went to trauma therapy.

SPEAKER_00

I I should have. But you know what? But even still then, therapy was like, hmm, like, do we like because what year would this have been like? It wasn't as normalized. Yeah, yeah. Okay. You know, it again, it was like, what is therapy? Or it it wasn't as big of a thing now, whereas like everyone go to therapy, it's very important. Yeah. People go to therapy like they drink their coffee. I I literally treated my training like therapy. Wow. And I I want to talk about the moment when I finally felt breakthrough from that, but first can we talk about how nuts I am? Because I would literally, uh so once I finally decided to fight, yeah. I mean, I'm not kidding. This is so crazy, like talking about it out loud. I remember I would go into training and I would get like beat up in sparring. Yeah. And then I'd like give it everything and I'd go in my car and I'd literally cry. I did that like every day. Oh my God. And I just think it's like I just had so much in me. I'd like to give everything I had. And then if I was like disappointed or like I'd go in my car and then I'd just cry. And wow. I know that sounds like really like what is wrong with you, but I just that's the way that I think I had to deal with that.

SPEAKER_01

I don't think anyone's actually thinking that because truly that's like the most relatable shit I've ever heard. Right. I was like, I like gave it everything.

SPEAKER_00

I tried my hardest. I love crying in my car. Dude, I cry in my car all the time. That's like I gotta bring sunglasses because I just don't know what I want to see. I'm like, just sunglasses, big ones, don't let anyone see. I just think it's like a great time to reflect. Facts. And I was like reflecting on the training, and I just think as well, I I was so determined to learn as fast as I could because of how much pain that I had.

SPEAKER_01

I mean, you're literally still in survival mode. I mean, I don't know if you know this, but like when you experience trauma, like you're it takes about a year for your body to fully work through that trauma. Yeah, and that's you're still in fight or flight. For sure. And then no, it's like even after the fact. Right. Like the residual pain and trauma that's still left in your body, like chemically, yeah, and your cortisol levels, like nothing gets back. I mean, I like look back on like photos and videos of myself, and I'm like, holy shit, like my face was so swollen. I was so unwell. Like I could tell I was just not calm. I wasn't comfortable in my skin. Like, there's so many things I think hormonally, as women, especially for sure, we struggle with when it comes to like having our levels, you know, and being healthy.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, just being healthy. Getting back to healthy levels, all of it. Yeah, I mean, that's definitely that's the definitely the way that I was. And and again, like I would go and I would like put myself through things that I don't recommend people to do if you want to fight. I did. I took it to a ma because you you you've been around me enough now. You probably know that I you saw me when I was trying to do the freaking vault. Yes, damn it, she is a determined little thing. I was like, we're over here like trying to get content. I'm like, no, I'm gonna do it again. I'm gonna do it again. And um, I even like to the extent I went and I told my MMA friend Tyson, I was like, bro, I was like, I need you to just I had this thing in sparring where I would like blink because let's be honest, like anytime a punch comes at your face, your instinct is to blink. Yeah, and but you can't do that in fighting, you have to actually stare it in the face, which is a really interesting metaphor. Wow, yeah. You have to stare like the thing that you're the most afraid of in the face every time to not receive it, exactly. And I was like, I want you to just go round after round with me and punch me in the head until I stop blinking. Do not recommend that, by the way. Please don't do this method of training. But that is how like determined I was. I would even have dreams jabbing myself out of my sleep. And and what's crazy is there was one moment, my my boxing coach can attest to this, yeah, where I sparred with a 16-year-old that dropped me with a liver shot, and it was so painful. If you've ever been punched in the liver, it's like a button. You can't build muscle around it, do anything about it, it just knocks you to the ground. Yeah. And I was so upset with myself. Well, first of all, because this kid's younger than me, and he's like probably 15 actually, and then also because I just didn't feel like I did well, and I was trying to like I wanted to go fight in the World Ringside tournament six months after I started fighting, which is very that's not common. That's very fast. You usually train for years before you take a fight. I took a tournament after six months, but I went to sleep, I came back the next day, and then I just started moving around exactly how my coach had told me the day before. He's like, What happened? Flipped a sweat. I was like, I had a dream, not like Martin Luther King Jr., but I have a dream. I had a dream of visualization. Yeah. You what you hear about this all the time in sports. Yes. I had a visualization in my sleep of me moving, like float like a butterfly, sting like a bee. I was throwing jabs and moving around. He said he couldn't even believe the person the night before versus the recognize you. He didn't even recognize me. And that's when he put me in the tournament that coming summer. Holy shit. So I was that's how determined I was. But then that that's pretty much like how all of that kind of started.

SPEAKER_01

I mean, I literally just saw a study the other day that was saying self-belief is the number one success rate. Or it's the number one thing that plays into success because truly, like you having that self-belief and that determination, like was the only thing that was driving you to success.

SPEAKER_00

It was, and then also, you know, a really painful situation. Like that was kind of like the fuel, I'd say.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00

But I would say it was self-belief. And yeah, girly pop had a chip on her shoulder, that's for sure. A big old chip, a big old chip on her shoulder. But also, like, I mean, Muhammad Ali talks about that. Yeah. And he's like one of the greatest of all times. He said, What separated me is that I believed in myself. And and everyone's like, he was cocky, he was this, he was that, you know, because he always had these sayings or he like, I'm faster, I turn the light out, and I get in bed before he even like the whole thing. I don't know his whole speech that he did, but he bel he had that self-belief. And I think that that is so powerful. And that could be used in sports, it could be used in life. Now, there's definitely a fine line between self-belief and delusion. Yes. And we need to highlight that. I do love a little delusional confidence right now and again.

SPEAKER_01

Not gonna lie to you. I mean, as long as it's like you gotta reel it in sometimes. Like, wait a minute. No, I'm not out here flipping off cliffs like the clip divers that I, you know, work with it.

SPEAKER_00

But yeah, and you know, like I know my limit. I did do a cartwheel on the bounce blame, but I'm not going to the Olympics anytime soon. Okay, so there's a line, yes, but I do think that self-belief is so important. Yes, I think that's a good thing.

SPEAKER_01

So then when you got into fighting, you obviously had your first fight ever. Yes, it turns out it felt like it was yesterday, I'm sure. When you have like those core memories, for sure. I remember every fight. Oh, I bet.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah. Um, how was it? How did it go? So I did end up fighting in the World's Ringside Tournament, and tournament style is it's it's brutal. So if you're a fighter watching this, you totally can attest to this. But every single day you weigh in in the morning, so you have to be on weight the morning of. So most of the time fighters cut weight. Um, because and if you don't cut weight, you're probably gonna fight someone who's cutting 15 to 20 pounds. So you almost want to make sure you're fighting within like a good weight for yourself. Okay. So if like for 5'4, I think uh, because that's my height, I think I was fighting like around like 112, 112 pounds. Okay. And you have to weigh in every morning. And unfortunately, my draw, I had to fight three days in a row. So oh my god, what three days in a row. So, what did you eat those three days? Water? Yeah, ice cubes? Lots of water, but then also you have to try to cut the water because you yeah, yeah, you have to weigh in. Honestly, I think I you want to kind of like stick to like basic things that you're eating just less of. So like chicken, rice, broccoli, dried cranberries, like stuff like that. But you're like out and fighting for your life, trying to feel your body. Yeah, yeah. Well, the good news is that kind of like around that time, I was not too far off of my fighting weight, anyways, which I think is important. I I personally am a proponent of women staying close to their fight weight just because of our hormones, it really messes with your hormones. Yeah. A lot of, you'll see a lot of UFC women that are like former fighters even say, like, yo, like fighting messed up my metabolism and my hormones. And it took me a long time once I got out of fighting to kind of correct it myself. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01

So um even with gymnastics as well, it was like of course, because you guys have to stay like how much we're training all the time, and then your hormones finally catch up. Yeah, yeah. I got my period like three different times. That's crazy. Like I literally went through like almost three different phases of puberty. Doesn't surprise me. Isn't that wild? Yeah, especially if well, because you like train so hard through puberty. Yes. So I never really got like a real period. So I remember being like in college, right? And everyone's complaining about their period. And I'm like, what period? What are y'all talking about? Like mine comes for like two, three days. I don't have any symptoms, and then it would be gone like the wind. And then I remember like going through it again at like age 26. Wow after I like finally stopped training. And now I get like a normal one, and I'm like, all right, I understand why you girlies are complaining.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, good thing it was delayed though. Yeah, but also, I mean, gosh, like the extremity that you gymnasts put your body through is next level. I want to say it's like I mean, there were girls that didn't eat their periods and crazy, you know.

SPEAKER_01

So, and especially in high school as well. So it just college?

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, wow.

SPEAKER_01

I mean, it just depends if you're eating or not.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, really. Well, but that would be insane to do gymnastics and not, I guess it's kind of like what you're saying, and like not have fuel in your body. You find a way to find a way, that's right. I did it for a yeah. It felt like your body adapts. Yeah, yeah, it's insane. Well, I think that's what had kind of happened to me is like my body had kind of adapted at that point, and you like train like an eight-week fight camp leading up to it, anyways. And you're like I said, you're kind of like sitting a little bit closer, and then it's just about maintenance. Oh, I always forget about the weigh-ins. Dude, the weigh-ins are not that I would actually say that's probably like the least my least favorite part.

SPEAKER_01

You could not pay me to get on a fucking scale right now, that's for sure. Right, absolutely not. I haven't touched a scale in like six years.

SPEAKER_00

I honestly I don't think people should. I don't recommend. It's uh it it is fighters. Actually, talk about this about how we like you almost have like body dysmorphia when you leave fighting. Yeah. Not in like it could be an extreme way depending on the person, but just because we're so used to having to weigh a certain weight, yeah, it's almost like a fixation. Well, and so then we're like when we're like a normal weight, we're like, oh my gosh, I'm like overweight, this is crazy.

SPEAKER_01

Well, and food's like not normal either. It's like now it's yeah, I like I think there's a really beautiful thing about having food be fuel, but then also there's I think also an extreme to that where for sure food is too much of fuel and you can't enjoy life and be normal.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, I there was definitely parts of that when I was competing. Yeah, there was definitely parts of that when I was competing. I'm like, can't eat this, can't eat that, can't eat it. Because you're like me and you can't half ass anything.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, we hold out there.

SPEAKER_00

100 or nothing, zero to one hundred, nothing else in between. Yeah. So, but the cool thing about that tournament though is that I did fight three days in a row and and I lost in the finals. No way. I did. And what's interesting about tournament style as well is that you fight people within a range of fights, not just so in standalone fights, you're fighting someone within like the same record as you. So, for example, like maybe they've had two fights, you've had two fights. Yeah, or you've had one, they've had two. They your their record really matters, but in tournament style, it's zero to seven fights. So the girl that I fought had six fights already, and you were green as hell. I was so green. So I still lost, but it was a really good learning lesson for me. Yeah. Because I was like, okay, like I can compete with people that have actually had experience, had experience. That's pretty cool. It was pretty badass.

SPEAKER_01

Like I walked away from that fight. I was like, you know what? I might have gotten a few bruises every now and again. But but I was like, okay, like the fact that you walked out of that ring and you were like unscathed is pretty impressive. It was cool.

SPEAKER_00

I'm just glad I got I'm well, you I mean, in tournament style as well, you're wearing headgear. Yeah. But after that, I did end up moving to Muay Thai. Okay. I was like, I walked out of that. I'm like, nah, I need more. I I want more. Wow. And then I that's when I moved into Muay Thai. And Muay Thai, man, it's the beauty because um when I ended up competing in that for most of my fights is no headgear. Oh my god. No shin guards. And that's what I wanted. I was like the moneymaker, right? Well, again, again, the tactic is to not get hit. Yeah, that part, you know, defend, get out of the way, all of that. Shit happens though. True. I mean, I I'll definitely say this. Um, I got hurt more by men in sparring than I ever did in a fight. Wow. So I got hurt more in practice than and on a lot of fighters say that. They're like, oh yeah, I got hurt in the training leading up to it, but not the actual thing. Just maybe because you're mentally a little bit less locked in, or uh, I just think the men hit hard. That part even fight men is crazy. Oh, yeah, they're all like west side, they're big.

SPEAKER_01

That's insane.

SPEAKER_00

They're big boys, and and in some of them, man, I was just like, really? Like, I almost had to like mentally prepare for certain sparring days because I was like, This is gonna, this is gonna be a painful one. Yeah, and in the cool thing is you know, in in sparring, you know, you at least wear shin guards. So at least you're like you're not receiving the full contact, yeah. But still, I mean, you feel that you know you've done kickboxing, yeah.

SPEAKER_01

You feel that, and I think it's like definitely also kind of a a tricky middle ground for us who are like alpha females, and we're like women empowerment, women equality, and then we're also like, wait, please don't hit me, like please don't hit me that hard. Like you're a boy, you know what I mean? Oh, for sure. Like you do have to recognize like there is still like an anatomy difference for the biological difference, like they obviously have a very large advantage when in a fighting situation, a hundred percent.

SPEAKER_00

You know, it's actually really funny you bring this up because there was something I learned about myself a little bit later on, like in my fighting career. Like I at this point I had moved to Australia and I was competing over there, and they take Muay Thai very seriously in Australia, like very high-level striking at like athletes. Wow, and because I think it's just because they're close to Thailand, it's just their influence um on the other side. The culture is stronger, yeah, yeah. Whereas like here it's more MMA now, and then you know, boxing because of the history, yeah. And also, when I started competing, like Rhonda Rousey just entered the UFC. Wow. So this was like very new territory for women, yeah, like really getting into uh MMA and and kickboxing martial arts and stuff. But when I was over there, we did this thing called shark tank sparring, and it's very intense, it's always usually leading to you're gonna understand in one second, and it's it's where one person stays in the ring, and this ring is small, you have nowhere to get out, and every 30 seconds they filter in someone new to spar you, and you have to go a whole three minutes, so it's pretty much just called survival for three minutes, and you know, I'm sparring against big people now. Some of the guys they'll go a little bit, you know, like lighter with me. Some of them they don't care, they they're gonna treat me the same way. And I remember this one guy. Um I try to go for a spinning back fist lightly, but at the same time as I did it, when I came back around, my hand was dropped. Never do that. One-on-one, keep your hands up. And he brought a hook around, clipped me, lifted me off the ground, and it dropped me, it stunned me. And I remember all the every all the guys are like and my coach was like, Are you okay, Jess? Are you okay? And I got back up and I was like, let's finish the round. Oh, you're insane. So pissed. Because I think what I realized is like mentally, I never wanted a man see me down again. Whoa. I think I think when I sparred the men, I did it with a different intensity than when I sparred women because you actually rooted like reason that I never fixed. Mind you, I never went to therapy. Yeah, and I refused, and and there was other times I'd spar men when they were trying to drop me with liver shots, and I would fight through it. Wow. Because I refused to let them drop me, and I carried that with me for a really long time. Holy crap! It was almost like I just couldn't let a man see me down. Wow. And that was my fuel. That's the most insane story ever for way too long. Don't recommend this, by the way. But it it helped me. It helped me because it gave me the fuel that I needed to to fight. But if you look at any of the greats like Connor McGregor, Mike Tyson, everything, a lot of what fuels these fighters is hardship, is trauma. If you look at any fighter, a lot of their upbringings or what gets them, their motivation, what gets them into it, is yeah, is trauma. They have to have an ability to see red. You have to and flip a switch, yeah. To be able to like go to training, get beat up, come back, do it again. And love it. Beat up, come back, do it again.

SPEAKER_01

Like you have to have a little like something kind of the screw needs to be loose. Yeah. A little bit. Just a little bit. That's so insane. I mean, I think what's also the most insane part about that story is the fact that like hearing you speak about your experience and hearing you speak about how you actually prefer like fighting men because it hits different, right? It's like it it scratches that itch of like I wanna take that control back. You were literally like living in your trauma. Yeah, I was. Your sport is your you know what I mean? Yeah, because like a lot of or like living in your trigger, because that's triggering as hell. It is like I've had a man put hands on me by like grabbing my neck, and like since then, like I won't, I don't like when people like touch my neck.

SPEAKER_00

I I've I've worked with women who are like that.

SPEAKER_01

It's like such a big trigger for me, of course, and like it's something I mean, and it wasn't even like that big of a thing. I mean, I don't want to downplay it, but like it was just a single moment, it is a big thing, it's a big deal, it's a big deal. It was a it was a it was a massive deal, but it was also a single moment, yeah. It wasn't a year of trauma, it wasn't a year of of abuse, it was one singular moment. And to that day, like I hadn't really loved anyone putting hands on me, right?

SPEAKER_00

You know, yeah, and so I did, I I did actually, I think fighting for me was it was a trigger, but it was also it was the therapy that I needed for the time that I was in. Wow, it's like it it helped heal me, yeah. It gave you an outlet, it did, and uh and uh honestly tomato tomato, whatever healthy outlet outlet you need, healthy by the way, like please can I just preface that? Whatever it is that you need, maybe that is like talking to a professional, which I recommend, um, or like doing something physical or working with someone, whatever it is, I totally think I totally recommend it. Yeah, yeah, to to work through stuff because what I realize is but not staying there, like there needs to be healing or closure. And I do think that there was a time, that's what I wanted to say. There was a time when I was living in Australia that when I realized I had healed, because someone asked me this question, like, when did you realize you had healed? Yeah, I realized I had healed when I didn't feel like I had anything to prove anymore. I was like, Wow, wow, I'm not fighting for him anymore, I'm fighting for me. Wow. And that was I needed that. I needed to I needed to realize that I wasn't because I'm gonna be I'm gonna be honest with you, I was a little spiteful after that relationship. To the point to the point to where like he was blocked on everything, but when I won, I'd sent him a photo of my hand raised. Oh, I told you, just learn from my mistakes, please. Don't we live a little we love a little petty moment here and then okay? Do as they say, not as they do. I'm so sorry. But and I did that a couple a couple of solid F you.

SPEAKER_01

I would love one star. It's like you should have sent it in the mail with a signed autograph photo.

SPEAKER_00

I like that. That's good actually. But I did that for a while, and then finally when I got to the point where like, why? Yeah, why am I What am I doing?

SPEAKER_01

Why am I making this man still the center of my attention?

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, yeah, yeah. And when I finally let that go, and I was like, no, I'm not, I'm no longer competing and doing this for him. I'm doing this for me. And when I started to change that, and then I started doing a couple self-defense things with women, I started teaching classes, and I started really honing that energy into helping other people. Yeah, that's what I needed. It was almost like a catalyst for me to really end up with like where I needed to be. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01

I mean, you gained your name, you gained your repertoire, you gained your credibility, and then you just channeled it into helping people. Yeah. Which is so beautiful. And I'm so proud of you. Like that's not easy.

SPEAKER_00

It's not an easy thing to do. No, it's not. But I'm I'm glad that I did finally get through that. I think that's important to the healing part is important. Yeah. We can't we can't. just like carry our baggage with us the rest of our life. Like we need to make sure we're healing from those situations.

SPEAKER_01

I mean I always think about that too with like athletes where I see let's say I see this one guy on my um on the strand near my house every day running. And it's like you can't help but think like what are you running from? Right? Like the fastest people in the world like the the mare, the ultra marathon runners. It's like that man's going through some trauma. You know what I mean? For sure they say that about endurance athletes. Yes. Because you have to have something in you to do that. That's it's crazy. Yes that's like getting you still there, you know? Like sure every day you have something to prove you have some and I I can relate to that 100% because I remember I was in stunt training and I was getting my ass kicked every day and at five in the morning and I was leaving the gym literally 20 pounds underweight so bruised just constantly getting injured beaten down getting beaten down and I was emotionally yeah literally I was like I'm I've lost I've lost the plot right and I remember thinking to myself I have proven myself time and time and time and time again. Yeah look at your whole career what am I trying to prove now same yeah and that was again like the most empowering feeling to have that realization of like wait I'm not doing this for myself right now because I don't like this. Exactly fun this is actually really traumatizing. My quick level therapy appointments I'm like shit and on top of that I was having nightmares every night that I was getting my ass kicked. Yeah no those are the worst holy crap dude it's scary no one talks about that did you have the dream where you were hitting as hard as you could and nothing happened it was literally like the it was the worst scene in SpongeBob where he's like getting punched and he's a sponge you just like could not I'm like that literally but then I would get my ass kicked and then wake up every day with just like my heart rate through the roof like I should have worn a heart rate monitor for what? Literally for what? Yeah. If you're not loving what you're doing what why are you doing it?

SPEAKER_00

Yeah then you really have to ask yourself yeah and then also think about it had you not made that decision maybe we wouldn't be here talking that part and maybe or maybe met on set and I would have been right beaten down to shit and you would be like ooh she's interesting.

SPEAKER_01

Not even the slightest not even the slightest badass there is something so special when a woman gets her spark back. I agree. It's just it's an unmatched and it's in their eyes. Yes. It's in the eyes. I mean and we can both relate to that I mean even recently with my breakup where it was just like people even in the comments like on my socials now are like crazy your spark is back. Isn't that the best both crazy yeah it's like the biggest compliment ever.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah it's and it's interesting because you know at the time you had no idea that that existed or that that was a thing. That the lights were out and and that's it. That's what I mean it's like that whole thing about the muted colors.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah like and you just in that's just the way we walk around life and you just needed and we're out here thinking that we have good poker faces but we clearly do not everyone's like nope I see right through you girl for sure I'm a terrible liar. Yeah I am an awful liar. Yeah I I'm really bad at faking it. But okay so all of this fighting world has obviously taught you a shit ton about yourself. What would you say is like the biggest lesson and the biggest takeaway from your fighting career ooh this is good.

SPEAKER_00

Hmm gosh there probably be so many life lessons that I've taken away from my fighting career. But let's just talk about this specific one for right now. And I because the reason why is because it's it's kind of turned a little bit into like my mantra and what I challenge people to do. So something that Mike Tyson talked about in some of his interviews was people would be like how how did you go in there and fight? Weren't you scared? And he's like I was scared every time yeah but I had to face it. And that's actually my biggest thing no matter what we do in our life there are going to be things that are scary that involve risk that look like oh the caution tape oh I don't know if I should do that. And I believe you got to do it scared. Do it scared. And that's the reason why I stepped in the ring I stepped in the ring because I just I had to do it scared. I was scared mindless and like I said I grew up doing sports. I was a competitive swimmer. Okay. And swimming competitive swimming puts a lot of stress on you. I was a stressor at my swim meets. Yeah I you understand the culture of swimming I think is also very like intense. Yeah it's so intense and kind of same with thing with Jim. Yeah and and I was like on a a winter one so it was like the competitive year round one and I just remember putting a lot of stress on myself but nothing compared to facing what I had to when I stepped into the ring it was a different kind of fear that you don't understand unless you do it which is why not a lot of people do. Yeah. And you think that you're fighting the person across from you but you're not you're fighting yourself. Whoa so it's it's there's so many parallels fighting that's crazy. There's so many parallels to fighting yeah I mean you're fighting your trauma you're fighting your trauma you're fighting your upbringing you're fighting your insecurities you're fighting like just think about all of that and for some people and that's why I also tell people now like you maybe you're going through like a medical crisis or maybe you're going through a divorce or whatever it is. You're fighting something yeah so I just finally got to do a physical representation of what I had always felt internally. Wow and that was fighting even when I was scared do it scared so do it scared is probably tattooed on you somewhere no but it should be it should I only have one tattoo. It's so good. Yeah I I I just think that we as humans shy away from things that are scary that are because we love our comfort zone.

SPEAKER_01

We want comfortability yes it's in our human nature actually I was just reading my book The Mountain is you and it literally is like your default is comfort. So if you're self-sabotaging figure out what you're doing that's what where that's coming from why are you self-sabotaging what are you chasing what comfort are you chasing?

SPEAKER_00

But that takes introspection yes and I think another thing I've realized is that introspection doesn't it's not everyone's number one skill acquired skill it's acquired skill that's a great way of putting it but if you really just like do a deep dive in yourself and be like why am I avoiding this? Yeah why won't I take this step? Why won't I step out on the limb? But you never know what possibilities can happen. Had I not stared in my opinion the biggest fear when I was in that relationship was actually walking away when you would think that it wouldn't have been yeah you would think it would be facing that every day every years or whatever. But my biggest fear was walking away from it and who I would be on the other side of it. Wow and had I not done it scared because that's the reality of it then I wouldn't have walked and become the person that I needed to be yeah and that applies for everything that I've been through in my life. So it was scared is probably the biggest life lesson I've learned from fighting. Wow facing the fears walking into the ring feeling all of that adrenaline like being scared if you're gonna walk out yeah that sounds kind of morbid but you know like you never know I mean in any competitive sport.

SPEAKER_01

You never know. Yeah and I mean it reminds me of that movie Christy we were talking about that how I went to that movie premiere and like that I mean I had never really seen a ton of and she had a crazy talk about trauma but she was good crazy because she literally was living with her trauma and was being coached by her trauma. Guys 10 out of 10 recommend watching this movie. It's the most insane thing and she's a goat for females in the sport yes I'm sure like I again it's it's like you thank goodness you did it scared because you might have lost your life. Right. Do you know what I mean? Yeah like you truly never know if a man can punch you in the face what else can they do?

SPEAKER_00

Exactly you don't want to find out that's we're not here to fuck around and find out that's for sure. You don't want to find out but that I that's I really you know I also love that they made a movie about her. Me too like I love that they're like really putting that on a platform and like sharing that story and also like female athletes are getting their moment which thank God yeah it's about I think it's amazing. Yeah I think that we need more of this and I'm glad that it's becoming more and more of like the narrative of you know different experiences. Yeah yeah it's so cool.

SPEAKER_01

I'm just glad that you guys finally got your spotlight because your sport is the most insane sport.

SPEAKER_00

I mean I always say gymnastics is one of the hardest I think fighting's harder uh it's just different yeah it's different I would say gymnastics I mean now we know girl dude I mean think about that though even when we were in the gym yeah you even told me like get out of your head like and I had a doing a cartwheel on the bounce beam is doing it scared y'all yeah I don't care who you are flying off those bars jumping onto the bars I was like it I would say that everything you guys do is that yeah you have to literally it's like it is like it's the same thing right which is why sports are amazing.

SPEAKER_01

Fear doesn't go away it doesn't you just get more familiar with it you befriend it you recognize that it's there and I was even talking about this with my friend Molly who's a Red Bull cliff diver and I that was one of the biggest and most shocking things that I learned when I was hosting for Red Bull was every single person up there on that 90 foot platform is scared shit. Of course but you think you're like then why do you do it? But it's just like they just find a way to cope with the fear better. And and yeah and they tackle it yeah it's like a talent like you just learn to handle fear and you learn to manipulate your breath and you learn to face fear in the face and do it anyway. And I think that is like one of the most incredible skills you can take on as a human being because you carry that with you through everything, you know?

SPEAKER_00

Yeah. That's you know I asked my coach one time walking out into a fight because I would get so nervous before them like where I would not talk to anybody. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01

I was like in my zone in my element listening oh girl I literally would hide in the bathroom before my floor routine would you listen to music I listened to the floor music before mine because I was like third or fourth in the lineup. Okay. And so I literally would go into my go into the bathroom, go to my little shell. I could not be around anybody. You needed to zone in you walk into your your thing. The most nervous competitor ever. Yeah okay that was me under the table. I'd be like staring at my phone watching videos of my floor routine in the past like trying to visualize like everything. But I have really bad ADHD so I would get overstimulated by the huge crowd. Yep. So I had to like revert to my little shell.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah and that's in well actually no now that you think about it most sports are done in front of a huge crowd. The crowd element is I think the trickiest part it was a really big because it is the performance element because you don't want to disappoint yourself but you also don't want to disappoint the people watching and I would be I would I had a song that I always listened to it's so funny and it helps me lock in because it became that routine for me. Like you know like when you Was it I the tiger I'm scared it wasn't it wasn't that one it was actually have you seen Gladiator? No oh what what you haven't seen not really come big extreme sports okay Wes is over here mad of me too okay because this is with like Russell Crowe this is like iconic movie movie night girl okay we I have to gladiator okay so there's this song though that they play um beautiful song by I think it's Han Zimmer but I would like this is the song that I would do to get me in locked in and I would be hiding underneath the tables because you're in a room fooled with other people getting ready to fight that are of your color. So there's blue corner or red corner. Okay. So like there's different teams and fighters in the same room and I'm like you're in the same room as your opponent no so just everyone that's red corner. Got it and then blue corner's the opponents of the red corner. Got it. So they're all in a room you're all in a room sometimes they would separate the girls thank you the girls from the guys but sometimes they wouldn't because like what if there's only one female on the card? Wow but I would do that and I would get locked in and I remember asking my coach I'm like what can I do to like help with like the nerves I'm so nervous. He's like when you're walking out to the ring when you're feeling all of that like the adrenaline and the noise and like that fear you feel yeah he's like I want you to take that and I want you to use it as like energy in your performance. Ah it's not anxiety utilize it exactly and it's so hard sometimes to differentiate between the two. Yep and that all it is is a mindset which helped me.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah it's a huge it's literally just a mindset switch of like this isn't anxiety. This that's fear. Yeah it's excitement because I'm ready.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah because I'm ready. Yeah and once I started to do that I wish they would teach that more when you're younger. Oh my God. I just think it's so important in in young athletes because I never understood that until I was much older.

SPEAKER_01

Well even little tricks like smiling to make your brain release a chemical that's more serotonin and raising your hands in victory. Yes like all those things they'll tell you things in your biological DNA that you need actually help you perform better. Yep. And so I I always encourage athletes to either go see a sports psych just to learn or just I agree research like take like an hour you know once a week to just do a little research on like how can I improve and how can I control my controllables because I feel like right so yeah that's a good especially in this like victim mentality era where everyone's just like oh my God what was me like I can't do this because my coach isn't doing that. It's like well then control your controllables. What can you do right now? What can you do today? I agree to take control of your sport to take control of your life your routine like no one else's responsibility but your own right I agree I think I think that's a good one control the controllables.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah I I agree with that because there's so many things that are outside of our control especially in your sport you're someone literally punching your face yeah there and and just in life there's so many things outside of our control and we can't focus on those things we just need to focus on like what we can do.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah absolutely okay this is insane and we have not talked about this and I'm really excited to hear about it.

SPEAKER_00

Okay. Um you had a stroke yes I did I did um I can't even remember how long ago probably was like three and a half years ago now what age were you 30? 31 are you okay? How are you doing? I am I am okay at the time I mean and this you want to know what I just got to talk about this. I think this is also why we go through stuff. It's almost like to prepare us for maybe things that are gonna happen to us so we know how to handle uh heightened situations or hard situations but um first anything health related that's ever happened to me um I've never even broken a bone yeah knock away yeah never broken a bone I was never like cut like nothing and so this was out of nowhere and it was also like I was literally at like the peak of my of my health I was so in so were you still fighting no I wasn't you were retired I was retired so I and that's actually a question they asked me they asked me if I had because I told them I was a kickboxer they asked if I had taken a hit to the head or something of course it was a but I was like no no I haven't been doing any of that but I had just gotten done teaching a workout at fight camp and I was in my office and I was under a lot of stress. So I do think that stress played a big part in this and stress is the biggest killer. Silent killer for sure you need to control the stress that's it and honestly this was a big wake up call for me to be like I need to control the stress in my life it's never that deep. Yeah right it's like who cares? Yeah until you're on a hospital bed you're like oh my god why was I so stressed health yeah and that's the only focus if you're just thinking about being better the world disappears yeah all the stuff you were stressed about doesn't matter anymore it doesn't matter it really does not matter there's actually a different thing that happened in my life that made me realize that that's actually why I got this oh wow but we can talk about that yeah I would say that that was the biggest wake up call for me when it let's talk about it now. Okay let's get into it. So because this actually happened before my stroke okay in 2019 I I think I had only been back in the States for two years and um I actually come from a family of five which is actually now a family of four siblings. Yeah so it was in 2019 that we actually lost my baby brother to addiction and I remember I remember being like whoa the thing is is like take the abuse take the whatever you go through nothing prepares you for losing somebody in your family and I just remember being like this this if all the fighting was for anything it was for this fight it was like the biggest fight that I've ever walked through I was depressed I mean as you are like I remember like going home to see my family for like a like a month in some change and I just remember us just like and what's crazy is I had just gotten engaged right before he passed. Wow and I remember um just having to arrange the funeral for my family and I had to be that like that strength for my family yeah because my parents were distraught like and um I just remember uh being with my siblings and and it's so interesting when you deal with grief everyone deals with grief so differently oh yeah that's a huge wake I was like whoa like are you sad this person's having a meltdown yeah the other person's like this person like going all over the place bouncing off the walls yeah it's so crazy and I just remember um I don't think it really hit me well it hit me like as soon as I received the news I remember it so clearly I was on the highway driving back to LA because I worked in production and I would drive out to Orange County every day and you know we had dealt with this we had dealt with the ups and downs of this for six years. Like this was that's so hard on your family too it was it was almost like it was almost like I had prepared for that phone call. Yeah and you never want that's your biggest fear every day. Yeah your biggest fear is coming to to light you almost like desensitize yourself you just want to be prepared yeah and it's like it doesn't matter I talked to a friend who also like her brother had struggled with this as well he's alive and he's better now thank god but I just it doesn't matter how much you prepare yourself you're never ready for that phone call no and I remember my mom called me and she's made sure my brother in law was on the the phone too and she's like yeah he's gone and I had to pull over the car I was like oh yeah I was like I I cannot I was distraught you know it it's really sad because I really feel like I was gone for a like the majority of his struggle so I think sometimes that's something that I I fight within myself is like could I have been there you know for him during his fight because his fight was fighting addiction and it again it's something that people don't like to talk about because it's very shameful not only for the person but for the people that are affected by it. Yeah it's a very shameful thing to be like because like the way people talk about it is so insensitive as well but it really it's a disease. It is it's a disease no matter what you struggle with. Yeah we're gonna we're not you're not putting a lot of disclaimers on this episode I'm sorry I'm sorry uh addiction how are we feeling tears so like well that's how we do it with disclaimer you can cut anything cut anything out you need to but I just think sometimes I do I I felt that for a long time just like could I have been there like to kind of like help fuel him send him in the right direction or whatever you know like you you feel that like with someone absence skill but I just remember um after that year happened and then 2020 happened and it was the pandemic and I lost my job my husband lost my job and just like talk about like the like like all this stuff happening. Yeah I decided to leave production because of because of him. Wow because I think what it made me realize is like and I've said this before but I I don't want to waste my life like anything can happen. Yeah we're not guaranteed tomorrow we're not guaranteed like a month from now we're not guaranteed to live till we're 50 or whatever like I don't want to waste my life and if that's something that my brother's life taught me then I don't want to do him a disservice I want to live my life for my brother yeah and I went ahead and got this for him I which is like for like the semicolon project yeah which is like to raise awareness for people who struggle struggle with like addiction depression like suicide and all the different things. Mental health because it says that their story's not over yeah their story continues on so I really take it upon myself that I want to live my life like in the best way possible to the fullest to continue my brother's story. So there was something you said that made me specifically think of it. You were like oh yeah it puts a halt on your life yeah I would say that that was the biggest halt for me. I was like I don't care about my career I don't care about this I don't care about anything because we're not guaranteed that all of this is gonna be here. So it's almost as if like this situation and even I mean because that was far worse than the relationship I went through. Yeah It's almost as if like it prepared me for the medical thing that I went through. Because I mean, having a stroke's not a small thing. It's like no. It's like pretty wild. Like what's the survival rate for that? It kind of honestly I wouldn't know because most people don't have it my age. Yeah. Like it's like it's like older. Yeah. Like you're 70.

SPEAKER_01

My great uncle had a stroke and he couldn't speak for years. That's what I mean. And he had to go to speech therapist. Yeah. Oh, yeah. Like it's it's not common. It affected his life for the rest of the remainder of his life. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah. I wouldn't know the stat because it's so uncommon. All I know is it's very uncommon in. And they never figured out why. No, we did. Oh, we did figure out. So I ended up having this thing called a PFO, which is a small opening in your heart. So I had to have heart surgery.

unknown

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00

Jess girl.

SPEAKER_01

You need to have a movie.

SPEAKER_00

I had a heart surgery.

SPEAKER_01

No one make a movie about this girl. No. You literally have lived like 12 lives.

SPEAKER_00

I actually feel like my life is like a play. It literally ends. Act one, Kansas City. Act two, the abuse. Act three. Like she takes on the fight. Like, I mean, it's weird.

SPEAKER_01

You're the strongest woman I think I've ever met. Stop. I'm not going.

SPEAKER_00

Thank you. But I feel the same about you.

SPEAKER_01

You've been through so many storms.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, but but you still have like the most incredible spirit. Because I just refuse to let life win. And maybe that's the fighter in me. You know? And I just really wish that I could have given that to my brother. I could give it to the girl that really needed it. And sometimes I like to say that I want to fight for the people that can't fight for themselves. And I just refuse to let life win. We can't. Like what's the point then? Like, why are we even here? And and I I battle with that. Like, why why would we be here if it's just to like kill over and let ourselves like die? Yeah. So I just want to use my platform, my voice, my talent, my skill, my whatever, my experiences to show people that they can overcome things as well. We're definitely doing that. I mean you're doing that today. Like shit. You want me crying? So I just uh and again, like I don't wear these things as a badge of honor. Like I don't, I I I want to say that. Like I'm not wearing these. I'm like, well, look what I've been through because I I it's not in that way. It's just that again, I think that we go through painful things to lead us to our purpose. Yeah. Like I always tell people my story is like a painful, a pain to purpose story. Yeah. Like what was used against me was now used to help me, to only help me help other people. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01

It gave you it gave you the strength to give you the purpose. And perspective. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah. Because I mean, I really don't know what I'd be doing in my life. I I really do think though, from a young age, I always had a fighting spirit in me. Yeah. It's just it's almost like I needed to like unlock it to its like full potential. Because even as a kid, like I was bullied because I was a tomboy, like to the extreme. Wow. And I just remember like I could not stand when other people would make fun of people for the sake of it. I would watch that happen and I would go over and console them and make sure they were okay. Um because you have empathy.

SPEAKER_01

I just you experienced it yourself and you know what it feels like, and you're like, I'm never gonna let someone else feel that way.

SPEAKER_00

Never let them feel that way. Yeah. And even like to this day, like people that are kind of the ones off to the side or like not talking with other people, like I said, go over, I want to make sure they're okay.

SPEAKER_02

Like casual convers.

SPEAKER_00

I uh we have a gift in the Midwest, it's called a Midwest goodbye. It's um it's where you go to say bye and then you talk for the another hour. Like dad does. We have the gift of gab in the Midwest. So there's never an issue. There's never an issue striking up conversation.

SPEAKER_01

We can talk about anything. I'm dead. Good thing because we're on a podcast. So I'm glad you can. Exactly. Oh my gosh. Well, I will say, I know you said I don't want to say these things to make it seem like I'm claiming them or whatever. Like, I genuinely cannot tell you enough. Like, if someone were to see you on the street, meet you in person, get to know you for even five, 10 minutes, not one person would know the shit that you've been through.

SPEAKER_00

Oh, yeah, I don't I don't talk about it.

SPEAKER_01

It's such a huge testament, though, because you have such an incredible light in you. Thank you. And I think women, especially hearing this story, is gonna give them so much hope, knowing that one, there's a light at the end of the tunnel, but then there's also this story and this this lesson where no one can take your light if you don't give it to them. Yeah. That one. Yeah. Yeah. That part. Thank you. Of course. All right. I think it's time we shift gears and go into a little segment that I do here on the show called Dear Athlete. Oh, okay. Gives us a chance to give our audience a little advice. Oh, I like it. Yeah. Wait, first before we get into it. Are we okay health-wise? Yeah. You're good.

SPEAKER_00

Okay. Moral of the story. Okay. Had a heart surgery. Okay. Uh Eased my way back into training. Yeah, yeah. Had a heart surgery. Okay. And uh East May way back into training and like really like took my time and everything. And I am lifting heavier than I did. I do my full like, I have full function on my right arm because I lost function on my right arm. Um, I didn't have any deficits after that. And you know what? Let's leave it on this. This is why your health is so important. Because had my health not been, usually when people that are older that do have strokes, their health isn't the best. It's declining. Yeah. And maybe can't bounce back. Yeah. And maybe they aren't eating the best or, you know, whatever, you know, fill in the blank. So there's a reason why the stroke happens, whereas mine happened because of like a birth thing, like the way I was like um born. So had my body not been healthy and I didn't focus on recovery and sleep and like all the things that I need to, I might not have walked away from that as easy as I did and had as good of a recovery as I did. Yeah. But I think because I was so healthy going into it, it was my saving grace. Wow.

SPEAKER_01

So I mean, I can take care of your health. I can attest it out because like people ask me all the time how I got back from my Achilles surgery as quickly as I did. And I was like, I am just so dialed when it comes to recovery. Like I took that shit so seriously. I made it my full-time job. Yeah. And thank God I had the ability to do that. You know, I was living at home. I was able to go and do hyperbaric chambers and get therapy and hire a personal trainer, and like I had all these resources, and I took full advantage. And I made sure to eat healthy and go to bed early and not drink alcohol and like all these things. And it's just again controlling your control balls because it truly will dictate the rest of your life. I mean your life is gonna look very different now because of the way that you took care of yourself.

SPEAKER_00

And I also didn't realize how much training, and this is important to highlight. I don't like use this word, these words lightly, but how much it affected my mental health. Oh, absolutely. It was not working out, not being able to, having to ease my way, go through the surgery. Oh, yeah. I was stir crazy. How long was the recovery? You know, it took it took a couple months for before I could finally get back into like full training. Like girl, what? That's impressive. What do you mean a couple months? Like that's insane. I think it's a yeah. No, no, no, it took a couple months because I was determined. And what I would do is I would just wear like shout-out polar, sponsored, sponsored the podcast. Yes. Uh, I would wear polar heart rate monitoring those for Jim. And I would monitor my heart rate. I would just monitor it, monitor it because they open heart surgery, stroke back in a few months.

SPEAKER_01

No big deal. Just a little break.

SPEAKER_00

Well, not open heart. It wasn't open heart. Okay, okay, okay. That would be hectic. So they used to do open heart for my procedure, but now um they're able to go through like your femoral artery. It's scary. I don't like to think about it. I was asleep. Yeah, they like go through. So they go through the femoral. My card, my um surgeon was amazing. They go through this and then they take this little device that's kind of like a little clasp, and then they stick it through the the opening, and then it like locks the left and right atrium. It's so fascinating. What the hell? I practically am a doctor now after this. And you have a I have a device in my heart. But it's not like a it's not like a metal device that you would that would go off. It's it's like a fab, it's like this like weird meshy fabric. You know, like the little Chinese finger traps. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It kind of feels like that. It's like fibrous almost.

SPEAKER_01

What the hell?

SPEAKER_00

And it's you had me touch it, right?

SPEAKER_01

I don't, I don't, you wouldn't be able to feel it. Oh. Because it's like it's like the hell did I touch someone had a heart surgery and they had me touch their arm.

SPEAKER_00

I'm like, mine's like in my heart, and then like your muscle tissue grows over it. Yeah. Whoa. It's crazy. But I did, I had like, I had they call it like phantom arm. I had like phantom symptoms for a long time after I again it was another mental thing, yeah. Where I was like, I'm having a stroke because I had so much PTSD from having it.

SPEAKER_01

Well, yeah, because there was no real cause. Obviously, there was a cause, but it there was nothing that was leading up to that where you were like, Oh, this could happen. It's a freaking jump scare. Like it was. Oh my god, crazy. Yeah, you're insane.

SPEAKER_00

But yes, we're good, we're good. All is good, health is good.

SPEAKER_01

You're got my aura ring on. You're impressive as hell. That's for sure. I'm so glad we met. You're so cool. All right, let's get into Dear Athlete. How do you know the difference between a season that's challenging you versus a season that's hurting you?

SPEAKER_00

Ooh, this is a really good question. How do you know a season that's kind of rapid fire? So Okay, well, shoot. You forgot to mention that part. Sorry. Okay, season that's hurting you versus a season that's what?

SPEAKER_01

A season that's challenging you. So basically, how do you know the difference between something that's hurting you versus something that's challenging you? I can go first. Okay, yeah, let's do it. I think this is a really deep question, but I This is a deep question.

SPEAKER_00

That's not like rapid fire.

SPEAKER_01

I'm like, geez. Ponder. Okay, I think for this one, it's what outcome you're looking for. I think when you see situations that are harmful versus situations that are challenging, it's like, well, what what result are we chasing after?

SPEAKER_00

No, I yeah.

SPEAKER_01

Are we chasing after approval? Are we chasing after, you know, this delusional support that we're getting from a partner that is maybe not actually healthy for us? Right. Or are we being challenged to grow into a bigger space to step up to the the plate and be able to knock out of the park? And I think a lot of times too, we say, like, um, um, what is it? It's like that saying of it's either an obstacle that's helping you to overcome and get stronger from it, or it's an obstacle that's steering you in a different direction. Different direction. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00

Like being like water.

SPEAKER_01

And I always feel like I'm such a big energy person. I'm like, if there's friction, it's not for me.

unknown

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01

Being able to decipher is it friction because it's not for you, or is it friction because you have to overcome it?

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, you know, I think the way that I would answer this now that you say it, because I like everything you said, is I would think about what the motivation is.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00

So it's like motivation and goal.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00

And then I would say another thing is, is yeah, am I am I trying to like walk away from this because of like an insecurity or a fear? Yeah. Or because it's a lesson. Because I actually it's it's tricky because sometimes like those like challenging things are actually the lessons for they're the best things for us. Yeah. Yeah. So I would say the motivation is the biggest determining factor.

SPEAKER_01

What would you say to someone who's feeling trapped in a toxic relationship or environment?

SPEAKER_00

That there is help. And the first thing I would say actually is that you're loved and you don't deserve it. Those are two things I think that you need to hear more than anything. Because I think sometimes people think they deserve the way that they're being treated, or that they are the problem. That's why they're being treated the way that they are. Yeah. You are love, you do not deserve it. Wow. And I would say the other thing is that there is help. Yeah. There is resources. There is resources and there is and and that there is hope on the other side of the abuse as well.

SPEAKER_01

That's amazing. I would say, yeah, just you're not alone. Yeah. There's always somewhere and someone you can go to. Always. Also, you're not a burden. You're not a burden. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01

And to get out. Get the hell out. Yeah. If even like your gut, I feel like females specifically have the most incredible instincts. And I always trust your instincts. If your gut is telling you something, listen to it.

SPEAKER_00

Women's intuition, man. Yes. Women would be great FBI agents.

SPEAKER_01

Oh my god. Incredible.

SPEAKER_00

We can find out anything.

SPEAKER_01

Um all right. Last one. Okay. This is very on brand. Very on par with what we just chatted about. Okay. How do you turn painful chapters of your life into purpose instead of letting them define you?

SPEAKER_00

Oh wow. That's like literally, that's like literally.

SPEAKER_01

I know.

SPEAKER_00

Like what I said.

SPEAKER_01

I'm just that good, I guess. Right.

SPEAKER_00

It's like a professional. How do you turn pain um painful situations into purposeful ones? You do exactly that. You share your story. And I would also say, like the the question is the answer. Yeah. Because I think too often sometimes we want to sit in the pain or we just want to see this other this other thing. But I could go away. Yes, but you I think that that's exactly it. I think sometimes the fire is is exactly the answer.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00

And we want to run from the fire when actually I think that really, I think that's what that's what we need. We need that fuel. So I I would say that the the answers on the question, I think it's taking those situations. First of all, healing from those experiences.

SPEAKER_01

It's hard to speak on those experiences when when you're going through it. When you don't have the perspective. Yeah. You need to almost like get a bird's eye view.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah. And I did actually have a a teacher once upon a time that said not to share on experiences until we've seen the other side of it. And I agree with that. Because we never want to be teaching from a place that's half. We want to be teaching from a we want to be like helping and sharing from a place of being more whole. Yeah. In the in honestly, our perspective changes so much when we're going through it. Oh, yeah. So I would say heal from it. And then I would also say find a way that you can use that in in whatever it is that you do to like help other people. Because I think that also is like how we come full circle. Yeah. The pain, we go through the healing, we go through the the life lesson, the skill, whatever. And then we come around and we teach it to somebody. And I think that's the full circle of appreciation as well. It's like being able to finally share it and impact other people for otherwise the pain was for nothing. Was for nothing. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01

That's so beautiful. I love that. I think we're gonna end on there because I have nothing else to add. Yeah. Thank you so much. Thanks for coming on. You're incredible. I sobbed my eyes out. Next time we're gonna have tissues, I swear. I literally was like, I cannot believe I don't have tissues. Little little post makeup set.

SPEAKER_00

Like dabbing it. Thank you for having me. I appreciate it. And also I love that you are creating this space for, you know, I know you're also like taking male guests as well, but creating this space as a woman in sports, but outside of that, allowing women to come in and share their stories, I think speaks volumes about you. And I really appreciate you allowing me in here. Thank you so much.

SPEAKER_01

I love you. You're the best. All right, you guys. Thank you so much for tuning in, and I will see you next Wednesday.