Athletes After Hours with Gracie Kramer

Gracie & Kamila on Beach Volleyball, Body Image, & Healing

• Gracie Kramer • Season 1 • Episode 14

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From competing at the highest levels of beach volleyball to navigating the intense pressures that come with being an athlete, today’s conversation with Kamila Tan goes far beyond the game itself. We talk about her journey through collegiate and professional beach volleyball, the injuries and setbacks that tested her resilience, and what it really takes to keep showing up when things don’t go according to plan.

Most importantly, Kamila opens up about her experience with eating disorders and body image struggles, topics that affect far more athletes than many people realize. This is an honest, vulnerable conversation about self worth, identity, healing, and learning to separate who you are from how you perform. Whether you're an athlete, someone navigating body image challenges, or simply facing adversity in your own life, Kamila’s story is a powerful reminder that strength isn't just about what happens in competition. It's about how you keep moving forward when life gets hard.

Trigger Warning: This episode contains discussions surrounding eating disorders, body image struggles, and mental health. If these topics may be difficult for you, please take care while listening. If you or a loved one are seeking professional help, resources are listed below🤍

National Alliance for Eating Disorders Helpline at 1-866-662-1235 and the 988 Suicide & Crisis Lifeline by calling or texting 988.

CONTACT ME FOR BUSINESS INQUIRIES 💌: graciekramerteam@unitedtalent.com

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It was just all too much for me to like bear. Yeah. And I relapsed, like, I my weight got so low, my heartbeat got so low that it was like in the high 30s, like during the day. What? Yeah. So I was close to cardiac arrest. Like that's how I that's how it happened. That's when I was like, holy fucking shit, I need to like do something about this. Yeah. Because I am actually gonna die. She played beach volleyball at UCLA for the very first NCAA beach volleyball championship season. She became a two-time second team All Pac-12 and two-time second team All-American. Achieved every academic honor you can think of while playing Division I sports at UCLA. Went to UCLA grad school to get a master's in public health, is an Impact Fellowship winner, and also attended USC grad school for a master's in social work. Holy moly girl. Ah, Camila Tan. Welcome to Athletes After Hours. Oh my gosh. Best intro ever. Thank you. Of course. You're such a baddie. This is insane. Literally reading off your accolades. I'm like, you're so smart. Thank you. I love that you have this beautiful balance of athletics and academics. I think a lot of student athletes struggle with finding that balance of really investing their time in their, you know, scholar and also in the gym. So I guess my question for you is how did you even get into sports and how did you balance both sports and academics? Wow. I actually don't think anyone's asked me that question. So really? Yeah. Wow. Yeah. Honored. Yeah. Great job. I mean, you went to UCLA as well. So there's like actually using my degree for once. Yeah. You're smart as well. Um, yeah, I mean, I think that's a really important point to bring up. I I came from a very highly academically focused family. Okay. Um, my grandpa was one of the top immunologists in the world. And casual. Yeah. So he, I mean, I grew up in a family where academics was very highly revered. There was a big importance placed on it. Um, it was a lot of pressure at times because like my grandpa he didn't make a big deal out of it. Honestly, he was the most like humble man that I think I've ever met, and I always really admired him for that. Um, but he would travel the world speaking about his life's work, you know, like in retirement. Yeah. Essentially. And he he honestly wasn't even really retired until his 90s, um, because he kept doing research and he kept being asked to speak on his work at various universities. So um he was always really encouraging me to make my academics a prior a priority. Cool. Um, and honestly, I mean, like a little bit of a point of contention in my family was also that I loved athletics so much and was so passionate about it. Um, and academics were always like the number one, right? So um it was always like, okay, I have to, I have to do the academic portion to like keep my family happy, and also like it makes me feel really good to get all these good grades and and keep um expanding my intelligence, right? But also like athletics makes me so happy and it like sets me on fire. And um, and also I think one of the reasons I love Beach Volleyball so much is I have to use my brain all the time. True, right? Yeah, so like there's strategy, there's all these like different types of players, different types of levels of play, and also like the way that people play the game is so different and keeps leveling up and up and up each year, and so like your brain has to be engaged the whole time. Oh, yeah. Um, but you asked me, like, how did I balance it all? I don't know. I just like worked my ass off. I love that though. Yeah, I'm such a huge, like even though it's great to work smarter, like I love people that just put their hat down and work hard. I think there's so much to say about that character development and also just you're the best kind of people to hire, you're the best kind of people to work with. Like, you know what hard work is and you're not scared of it. And if anything, like it fires you up even more. And so I'm like, the people that work the hardest are gonna take over the world, and it's cool that you're also really smart, so you can like work smart and work hard, but like I think that's very cool that you you recognize that it was gonna take a lot of work and you didn't shy from it. Yes, yeah, yeah. I'm that's also a great point. Like, I'm not afraid of hard work. Yeah, I think that like I've never been the most talented beach volleyball player, but I've always like put my head down, wanted to grind, wanted to learn more. I've never been the most like academically, like I don't know, academics don't come super easy for me, but I'm willing to work as hard as I can to achieve the best grade possible because like why not? Yeah, why not push your potential? And I think you holding yourself to that standard obviously speaks volumes too. Like you having obviously the background that you did with your family holding that standard, you kind of went into it with like there is no other option. I'm gonna get straight A's, and I'm also gonna apply myself in the gym playing volleyball every day. And you came out obviously with this like incredible list of accolades. Thank you. You're welcome. You deserve so many praises. You you earned all the flowers. Um, was there a moment in your time at UCLA where you felt like you took that standard to an extreme? Or where it became kind of like toxic, I guess. Because I know for me, I did. Like I held myself to such an impossible standard where it it felt so heavy and like daunting to continue to like maintain that. Yes, yeah. I think with my academics, honestly, I I had a pretty good balance of what I could manage. I majored in psychology at UCLA, so it definitely wasn't like the hardest major to manage. It was a lot of memorization and a good bit of writing, and then I had a lot of GEs that I really enjoyed, and like music and um other sciences and and arts. So like there was a great, there was a great balance there that I had um that academically felt pretty manageable for me. But I mean, on the athletic side, definitely, because I'm sure that we'll get into it, but yeah, I developed anorexia. Um, and that was, you know, like the drive for perfectionism and um and wanting to be like the best athlete I could be and wanting to fit in right, which, you know, given the environment that I was in, was definitely definitely exacerbated by, you know, like high pressure athletics and um and certain mindsets that were like in the culture of being an elite athlete at the time, and um and so to that end, yes, I did push it to an extreme, it became toxic. Um and I don't think it really had much to do with my academics, like not that balance, but definitely like other factors that were very extreme. Yeah. At what point in your athletic career did you kind of notice it start? Like what triggered do you think this level of you know, extreme with eating and food noise? Like, where did you notice it the most? Yeah. Um so I had transferred from UC San Diego. I played indoor at UC San Diego. Oh, I didn't know that. Yeah, I played there for two seasons. Wow, while Ricky Ludis was coaching there. So like Ricky was one of the greats of beach volleyball, and he played at the same time with like Carch and Sin Jin and um that golden era of beach volleyball. My dad knows Sin Gen. Really? Well, and his son played at UCLA, right? Yeah, yes. Oh my gosh, okay. It's all coming together. Cool, um Yeah, yeah. Yeah, totally. So um, yeah, I played under Ricky while he was coaching at UCSD, and back then UCSD was still D2. And then when I heard that UCLA was starting a beach program, I hit up Stein after I got my release from Ricky and just asked if he was taking players and cool. Oh my gosh, he like he came out to watch me play at one CBVA tournament, like watched me pepper, and then he left. Didn't even watch you play a game. He didn't even watch you pepper. Like, that was the best pepper of my life. And he like called me later and he was like, Yeah, you're on the team. What? He just saw your height and he's like, period. I was like so stressed out because I was like, Mom, he's like, he's he doesn't want me. Yeah, I would be too. I'd be like, oh my god, he saw me for three seconds and he's out. Like, okay. Yeah, it was funny. That's amazing. For those of you that don't know, peppering is like a volleyball drill where you just literally pass back and forth. There's nothing really crazy about it. So the fact that he literally just watched you pass that hit and then said, Yeah, yeah, you're on, babe. He maybe watched me serve like twice. That's like having a coach like recruit me and watch me probably do like a cartwheel. Yeah. And be like, sold. Yep. You're in. One backflip, done. Done. That's all I needed. I love it. That is so funny. So then you ended up going to beach volleyball, and you had you been playing beach volleyball before that at all, or was this kind of a completely new sport for you? It was so I played, I started playing beach volleyball in high school. Okay. And I back way back then, um, it beach volleyball was just like an emerging sport. Um, so really new. Yeah. So San Diego, I grew up in San Diego, so 692 Beach Volleyball Club was the club that I was a part of. And I was like the inaugural like class, I guess. Wow. But yeah. Um, when Jeff Smith started that club, I was like one of one of the first girls to ever play in it. Um, and then at UCLA, I was the first same thing, right? Beach volleyball athlete to play at UCLA. Like that's why Stein just like saw me pepper and was like, Yeah, sure, because he's like, There's no standard because we have no one else to compare you to. Basically, yeah, like he was good enough, I guess, by like researching me and seeing who I was. And he was like, Yeah, this he's probably seen you do a lot of indoor as well and knew that your skills would translate. I honestly have no idea. I have no idea. Well, blessing and blessing in the stars, I guess. I guess so. Yeah. Um, but yeah, there was just it was just such a brand new program. And um, and when I transferred in, there was me and one other girl who was doing her fifth year at UCLA. Her name was Maddie Smith. Um, and the two of us would like go play at Sunset Wreck, and Sunset Wreck had like uh horrible courts at that time. I remember. Yeah, two inches deep. Um they were so shallow, so shallow, and Stein was like, Don't dive because you'll hurt yourself. And we were like, Okay. Isn't volleyball all about diving? Yeah, yeah. Cocoa. So then we would like playing beach volleyball with pads on. Honestly, we probably should have on those course. Yeah. And then we would drive out to Santa Monica three times a week. Wow. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. So and like the rest of the indoor team filled out Arts. Oh, so then they would just okay, kind of like savvy sema where she just did both sports. Exactly. Because you guys had off seasons, right? Yes. Okay, gotcha. That's a trip. Yeah. So to answer your question, like the the thing that brought me all to this was you asked me like when did it start to get toxic for you? Yeah. Well, I was transferring into this like brand new program, like, didn't even have my own locker room, didn't even have my own team. Yeah. You know, like it was like a little bit isolating because I didn't like the indoor girls were like that squad. And then I And they were probably so tight as well. Super tight. Like so clicky. Super tight. And then you were the outsider. Yeah. And I was just like this sucks. Kind of like a nobody from San Diego, you know, like that's kind of just kind of what it felt like. This like D2 girl that transferred in for like a brand new beach program. And um, yeah, they were all really tight, and I was like trying to make friends, but it was like it was just kind of weird, and um, I was also like really shy at the time. That's so tough. Yeah, so making girlfriends is also so hard. It is hard. I don't think people talk about it enough. Like, yeah, making friends in college is really challenging. It is, and that's why being on a team is always great, but it's like it's different when they're already an established team and then you're just there by yourself, right? And then that other girl probably already graduated, and you're like, cool. Yeah, well, and Maddie, like she was already friends with all of them, too, you know, so she was like really well in the case. True, she's she's already there for a while. Yeah, okay, she was playing indoor there, yeah. Yeah, so it like that was a really tough season for me, just like trying to figure out where I fit and also um like I was actually like struggling with binge eating at that time because that was kind of how I was managing like those emotions, and then and then I was like, okay, I have to figure out how to like kind of get through this emotional eating stuff, and so I just kind of like flipped the other direction because I was like, I want to eat healthy so that I can, you know, elevate my game and also like take care of my body better. Um You're trying to control your controllables, yeah, and just like very innocently, yeah, you know, it wasn't like it didn't start out as um me wanting to like restrict myself. I just I just wanted to be a better athlete. Um, but eventually what it turned into was like, oh, I started losing weight, and then I started receiving compliments, and then I started feeling like I was fitting in, and then like people were treating me differently, and then like starting to get more attention from boys, you know, and then like and then it's like this huge snowball effect, and then I can't stop. It reaffirms all the stuff that you tell yourself in the in your head, and then you're like, Oh shit, I'm in a lot deeper than I thought. Right. Oh, girl, that is so relatable as well. I mean, I don't know if you know this, but I also had one that developed my sophomore year at UCLA, yeah. And like mine was because I got benched my my freshman year at Nationals because I didn't perform to my best that season, and so I lost my credential literally. Like the head coach was just like, I need your credential. We have someone else that earned the spot. Like, you basically didn't earn it at the end of this season, and like they took away your badge from you. Like I couldn't go on the floor at NCAA's, yeah. Oh my god. I had to sit in the stands with my parents, yeah. It was really, really hard. Oh my god, my heart. I know. And so, and like being a little freshman, I was a walk-on and I knew thankfully I'm not I've never really subscribed to the victim mentality. So, like immediately when it happened, I like didn't even feel bad for myself. I was like, I could have prevented this. Wow. I you blamed yourself for it. Completely blamed myself. I was like, this was fully 100% in my control, and I did not take advantage of this incredible opportunity to be on this team. Wow. And I just beat myself up for it, trained literally like six hours a day, every day in the summer, to like come back and prove myself. And so at that point, I literally like took it to such an extreme. Wow. And to be fair, also like in the summer, when you're in California, it's kind of this weird thing, but like, I mean, you're in your bikini all the time, you're going to the beach with your friends after training, yeah, you're rushing from practice to go hang out with your friends and be social because you're trying to have balance. You're not really eating because you're like zooming from one thing to another, and next thing you know, you're skinnier because of it. But then everyone again is complimenting you, you're getting attention. Yeah. I'm now like kind of yeah, getting attention for the first time, and I'm also being social for the first time. Right. And same thing happened to me. Yeah, and also I don't think people talk about this enough enough either, but like California is like a very normal, normalized place for like not eating very much. Like it's like, and I'm a competitive person. So like if someone would say, like, oh my god, I didn't eat today, I'd be like, shit, I did. Right. And in my head, I'm like, I need to not eat tomorrow. Right. Because that girl looks amazing and she didn't eat today. And it's like, I think when you're around that and it becomes normalized, it's just like you just forget that it's like not normal. And I think, yeah, having all of that pressure on top of it, and then you know, you jump into gymnastics season, you're in a freaking leotard. It's like cool, and I gotta prove myself. I have this chip on my shoulder, and it's it's definitely a spiral, and it's it's a lot faster than I think we realize. Yeah, I can go downhill real fast. Yeah. Did you like realize while you were in it that it was bad and then you just still continued, or did you just kind of have this inability to recognize that it was like toxic for you? I mean, gosh, I don't know if this happened to you, but like when you're getting so much positive reinforcement like that, you really don't think that you're doing anything wrong. That part actually. Yeah. No, you're so right for that. And I think too, it's like you're still performing. I mean, we're kind of freak athletes. Like the fact that we were still able to perform with basically being fully malnourished, right? Kind of insane. Imagine if we actually ate. Right? Yeah. Imagine nine time all American. You know what I mean? Yes. Like it's actually, it's actually insane like to think about to be like, oh, what if I actually gave my body the nourishment and love it deserved? Like how insane. Oh, it's so insane. Did you guys do bod pod at UCLA? Yeah. Okay, same. Oh, so now we're trauma bonded for life. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. Okay, so I need to explain the bod pod because this is actually the most insane thing ever. Um, hopefully it's banned by now. Um just for the girlies. You sit in an egg. Do you want to just explain it? Well, okay. You sit in an egg. Sports bra and like spandex. Booty shorts, right? Yeah, like basically as little and a swim cap clothing the best swim cap ever. Hair in a bun. Hair in a bun. You look you look like an egg. In an egg. You look like you're about to get hatched. Bear. You're so vulnerable. So vulnerable. Like a little baby. You're just like, you're just like a little baby. A little fetus in the womb, if you will. Oh my god, I'm so glad we can like make light of this now. Um yeah, and you just like sit in the egg and it beeps at you. I don't know if you've ever been in like an MRI machine, but it kind of just feels like it's not nearly as loud as an MRI machine. And it does this weird pressure thing. Have you noticed that? I have I my sophomore year, I or maybe no, it was my freshman year. My freshman year, I punctured my eardrum. I got really sick before a flight to like Arizona State. We were competing against them, and I had like an ear infection, and I went to blow my nose out and I burst my eardrum. And since then, anytime I went in the bod pod, it hurt because they would pressure, it's like a pressurized egg that measures your body fat percentage. And they literally have the screen and the monitor set up right there, and you can look at it. I didn't. Good for you. I was a curious gal. I'm like, let me see that. I actually I don't think that they allowed me to look at it once I was diagnosed with an eating disorder. Yeah, no, I'm shocked they even let you in there in the first place. But I guess maybe to monitor to help you at that point. I mean, they did it before, like, because I wasn't I wasn't flagged for an eating disorder until I started losing weight. So like I came back, so I finished my sophomore year at UCLA and like hadn't lost anything really. And then like I over the summer between my sophomore and junior year. Oh wait, no, between my junior and senior year, I lost like 30 pounds or something. Like it was yeah, it was crazy. And then like I had lost my menstrual cycle by that point. And that's when you knew that it was that's yeah, that's when you see LA was like and then like this is not a good situation. And so, yeah, and then I think that's when they started like blindweighing me and and turning away the the numbers, yeah. They're like, don't laugh the vod pod. Yeah, yeah. But I think I still uh did it throughout like my four for my four seasons there, yeah. I remember doing it like all the time, not all the time, but like they had me do it at the frequency that everybody else was doing it. Yeah, because I think we did it um pre season, so it was like right after summer, and then I don't know if we did it. Mid season, but it was like right maybe right when season started, and then we did it at the end of season. And I think right before summer or something. Yeah. But did they ever have anything in place if you were overweight? Because we did. Yeah, I mean, I imagine for gymnastics it's even more cutthroat than or like even more serious than it's pretty strict. Yeah. They run a strict program over there. We we did not, thankfully. Okay. Um it was just more so like the commentary. Like I I remember a couple comments from coaches that I was just like, whoa, why would you say that to a player regarding like body or like workout style? Or to be honest, I don't even want to say it on the podcast. Really? Yeah, just like I just I would rather not. But like it's damn it's just unfortunate that like those kinds of comments were made. Like, um That's not okay. Yeah, one time a coach said to a player, like, hey, do you ever do any workouts outside of practice? And she was like, No. And and the coach just was like, huh, and like turned away. And that sits with you. Yeah, I don't even like I don't even know why they felt the need to ask that question. I don't know why they felt the need to ask that in front of the entire team. It certainly like sat with me. Yeah. You know, like as I watched that play out, um, I was like, not that didn't sit right with me. No, you know, um, but also And you're also thinking, like, well, what are they saying about me? Right. You know, like I think it kind of creates that weird lack of trust in the coaching staff or just the support system that you're supposed to be able to lean on. Now you're like, are they judging me? Are they looking at what I'm weighing? Are they, you know, yeah, like are they talking about me behind my back and saying I look a certain way? I don't know. I just think that definitely does open up the door to like read into it a little too much. Totally. And I mean, I just don't think that any any coaches should be commenting on our body whatsoever. I don't think any human should ever yeah comment on another person's body. Yeah, I think that that's just it should be illegal. Arrested. Arrested, immediate ticket. You just got fined for being a weirdo. $250. Literally, like, I don't think people genuinely understand, like there has been far more harm than good from commenting on people's bodies. Far, like 85% more harmful than good. Like, sure, compliment every now again. You look amazing. Thank you. Good, let's move on. Right. You know, like even the other day, literally yesterday, I'm playing volleyball. I go to the green store, and I'm literally just grabbing a sandwich to go play. Because I'm like trying my best to feel my body in between playing. Yeah, great. And this drunk dude comes up to me and he's like, Oh my god, your arms jacked. Can we not? That's literally been my biggest insecurity pretty much my entire life. Really? Yes. And like, but people wouldn't know that. Thank you, but people wouldn't know that. And it's like, so then don't say anything. Like, you don't know what people actually are insecure about, right? Even if it's silly. Like, I know that my insecurity is silly, but it's deep rooted. Right. Because it's like back when I was in high school, like, boys weren't asking me out, they were asking to arm wrestle. Do you know what I mean? Yeah. And I think that's where the like kind of issues started to stem of just like people making comments about your body should be off limits. I don't know. That's just a me thing. But like, I really try to be mindful about that because it's just like, even if it's positive, again, like we talked about, it's like you don't really know what someone's doing to their body. So if you're yes, saying something positive, you might be reinforcing some really negative behavior. That and that's where it gets really sketchy. Yeah. I mean, it's just like it's not wise because somebody could be fine with it or somebody could take that and run with it. Yeah. And like if everybody was just a little bit more conscious about what they're saying, I think like a lot of that could be avoided. 100%. You know, like what people were saying to me when I was sick with anorexia and like 40 pounds underweight was like incredibly complimentary from their standpoint, but like incredibly harmful for me to hear. Yeah. Right. And so, like, yeah, I I mean, I I catch myself sometimes being like, oh my god, you look great, but like, is that actually helpful? You know, it could it could be harmful if I don't know how that person's treating themselves. And so, like, yeah, it's just definitely something to be mindful about. For me, like for me in Beach Volleyball, everyone was always like commenting on other people's abs, like the stomach. That's so toxic. Like, and especially genetically, like some people just can't have abs. Like me, I have a long ass torso, I will probably have abs till I'm 80. Yeah, I'm just built that way because I have short legs, but like I was really insecure about my arms and my legs because I'm shorter. Right. So, like, we all have our things, you know? Yeah, but it's like if you have a shorter torso, it's really hard to have abs. And like, why are we even talking about it in the first place? Right, like so silly. Yeah, and it just And like why is that even relevant? Yeah, why is it relevant and why is that like a status symbol? And why like why is that desirable? It's like a medal of honor, yes, yeah. Like that you're so lean that you have abdominal muscles and like you give the body of an athlete. Right. What does that even mean at this point? Right. Look at Alona Mars, she's a fucking athlete. I love her so I know she's such an icon, she's amazing, and she's doing God's work because she's healing so many women's expectations and standards for what beauty and and athleticism should look like. And I think that like these types of conversations are also gonna help a ton because I think kind of knocking down these insane beauty standards and also just the topics as a whole. Like, guys, the way we look is the least interesting thing about us. That like, what if we compliment each other on our strength and our resilience and our kindness and our ability to adapt? Like, those are the things I want to be complimented on, not how I look that day. Because also then you hit your luteal phase and you're like bloated, and now you're insecure, and all your worth is wrapped up in what you look like, right? And I truly believe like the most beautiful people on earth are the most insecure because so many people say that about how they look. So then now all of their identity is wrapped up in their in their image and how they're presented and how they're perceived. And so that's why I always try to avoid like putting someone's worth in their beauty or in their physique or whatever it is. Because again, it's like the moment you have, you know, maybe you gain weight, maybe you get pregnant, maybe you, you know, are in your luteal phase and you're just bloated or you're just having a bad body day. Like now your worth is gone. Like now you're crashing the fuck out. None of it's bad. Like our bodies change, they have to change. It's a vessel that carries you and also that supports you. And like, if we can't do our sport because we're not nourishing our body, like that's the problem. Yes, we're not like what we look like. Yeah, yeah. I mean, thank God I didn't get to that point, honestly. I was close, like I was really good at hiding it. Me too. Yeah, I'm so sorry that you did. Yeah, that sucked. Yeah, I bet. So then what at what point were you like, this is enough? I'm done. Like, I need help. It was actually it was actually after I graduated UCLA that I had to like really take time off. Because I mean, they at UCLA they did monitor me, so like I I wasn't allowed to keep losing weight, right? So like I they would weigh me once a week, I'd go see a dietitian, I um was mandated to go see a therapist and like Did you go to CAPS? Yeah, I went to CAPS. Um, and it honestly like wasn't nearly enough therapy for what I needed at the time, but but at the very least, they were like medically monitoring me and making sure that like my heart was in a stable place because with anorexia, like you can go into cardiac arrest. Really? Yes. Anorexia has the highest death rate of any mental illness um behind opioid addiction. I just got shells. Mm-hmm. Holy shit, what? Yes, girls, listen up, that's crazy. Yeah, so like that's also why talking about restriction is so important because like it could literally kill you. Yeah, yeah. And like it usually doesn't when people are young, right? Like, especially like if we're so athletic and we already have like good car very strong hearts, you know, um, there's a lower chance of it happening, but like the death rates are still really high, or like extreme medical complications, like early on, say osteoporosis because you lose your period. Yeah, and your bone density is gonna get your bone density drops. Yeah, like um fertility issues. That's why I started eating again was I learned that it could affect my children and my ability to have kids later in my life. And I was like, oh, absolutely not. I went mama bear without even being a mom. I was like, no, no, no, no, no, nothing's gonna affect my future children. Like, that's where I was like, okay, fuck the beauty standards. I need to take care of myself now because my future self is depending on it. Yeah. And I think that's where I the lights came on, and you know, I flipped the switch and was able to rationalize a little bit more and be a little bit more smart and and mindful about it. Yeah. Because it wasn't about me anymore. Right. And it wasn't about how I looked. It was about this is like a real thing. And I know that a lot of women struggle with it because of their past, and that's terrifying. Right. It's insane. Like I didn't want to be 50 and like be breaking bones from like dripping off a curb, you know? Yeah. Like, no. Like you were thinking about your future self, and you're like, well, yeah, I mean, it got to that point after like after I graduated. I'm unfortunately I wasn't able to like overcome the hump while I was in school. Yeah. Um, but when you're in that kind of survival mode in which like the eating disorder serves you somehow, right? Like anorexia was like helping me fit in, helping me get seen, like helping, like in my mind, was kind of like what I needed to do in order to like be good enough, right? Which is like so sad to say. So sad to say. But we we have warped thinking when we're in that state of mind. Like you you justify so much behavior that like now looking back seems ridiculous. Like, but it's just when you're like sick, like you're sick, like you just can't help but look for every reason to kind of reaffirm those thoughts that you have about yourself. Right. You look for reasons, and it's just it sucks that it took, you know, leaving your sport. Yeah. Hi guys, I hope you're loving the episode as much as I am. But first, we gotta talk about I am 8. You guys know how much I love doing gymnastics, filming, training like a pro athlete, attempting new sports, traveling, and honestly, some days keeping up with my own schedule feels like a sport in and of itself. 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I was like, Yeah, I love this school, I love this sport, like I love doing what I do. Um, and so like when I graduated, oh man, we were like so close to winning the natty when I was there. Really? And then when I graduated, like Sirius Bonsel came on the next year, and um, and they had like a stacked team, and I got they were so good. They were so good because they were there when I was there, and I remember that. Yeah, and so I watched them win the natty without me with like basically my same team with like everybody except for me, right? So like it was like gut wrenching, devastating. Like I couldn't even verbalize that then, yeah, but like after all the therapy I've done and like looking back on it, I I was just like so heartbroken that I wasn't a part of it anymore. Yeah, because you felt like you deserved to be there because you gave so much to that program. Yeah, like wow, I'm even like I'm getting emotional just like thinking about it. But like, yeah, I gave everything and it felt like it didn't pay off somehow. Yeah. Like, um, and so that triggered like that triggered a big relapse. Like at that point, I I went into grad school for a master's of public health, and like I really wanted to go pro, but again, I was like like toggling with um kind of like the battle between academics and athletics. Like my family was like, grad school, grad school, and I was like, But I still have just yeah, but I have like so much potential, but also like I'm trying to recover from this eating disorder, and so like I don't know how much I should push myself, and then like the loss of structure of like having a team and having like a sport and having practices, like it was just all too much for me to like bear. Yeah, um, and I relapsed and then like I my weight got so low, my heartbeat got so low that it was like in the high 30s, like during the day. What? Yeah, so I was close to cardiac rest. Like that's how I that's how it happened. And that's when that's when to answer your question, that's when I was like, holy fucking shit, I need to like do something about this. Yeah, because I am actually gonna die if I don't. Yeah, yeah. Um, and man, I remember like I had a panic attack in the middle of the night one night, and I was just like, I'm gonna die if I don't change. And I called my mom at like 1 a.m. Um, and my mother, who's like an angel, she had done all this research on like the best health insurance for anorexia and like the best treatment centers for anorexia. And so, like UC San Diego, thank God, is like one of the top treatment centers for treating cleaning disorders. Yeah. So like my parents like packed me up the next day, like came my dad or like two days later, my dad came up and like helped me move out of my apartment, and I like went and got evaluated by a doctor down there, and then they hospitalized me. Wow. And I had to, yeah. So I went into like inpatient hospitalization at Rady Children's Hospital because they have like a medical behavioral unit so they can monitor you like overnight while you sleep. Oh good. Um, and yeah, yeah. So I was in the hospital. They said, Oh, like maybe you'll be here for like 48 hours just until your heart kind of like restabilizes. Um, but I was there for two and a half weeks. Holy shit. Took me that long to like to restabilize. Wow. Yeah. Cause I like my heart had to get up to 45. The standard was like 45 beats per minute. Okay. Um, overnight. And it had to maintain that overnight in order for me to be discharged. Like that was like the standard for your poor little girl. Yeah. She was like fighting for her life. Yes. Damn, dude. Yeah. That's so scary. It when you were in the hospital, did it click that you were like, okay. Like, I need to change kind of like did did that like flip a little bit? I had accepted it at that point. It was like the couple months, like, there were like two months leading up to um and here's where I get like really spiritual about this, because like there were a couple months leading up to when I decided to actually like go get help. Um that I just kept hearing the same messages from people over and over again. Weird. Yeah. So like actually, like Allie Wheeler's dad came up to me at Manhattan Beach Open, and I was like, and he's known me because he like was watching me compete against his daughter at USC um for like many years. And so he had like seen me play, he'd kind of like seen me like lose weight and whatnot. Um, and he just came up to me and he was like, Hey, like people really care about you, and that's all he said. That's all he said, like stop, I'm gonna cry. Yeah, yeah, like just people really care about you, Camila, and you like deserve to be happy, you really do. Just like I don't know. Yeah. And then like I remember I was like walking out of class in grad school at Ucelia one time. This like random guy just came up to me and he said, Like, I uh God told me to tell you that just like everything's gonna be okay and and you deserve to be happy, healthy, and well. And then he just like walked away. Yeah. And then there was like this other lady, um, Natasha Nelson. Uh she lives in a Hermosa Beach and she's also like a mental health coach. Like um, she has her own, and she's also a chiropractor. And I was like playing in a tournament one day, and she just like came and sat next to me, and she was like, Hey, like you're gonna be okay, like you deserve to be happy, healthy, and well, you know, like the same message like that is so wild. Over and over I'm like literally crying, you guys. Yeah, that's so gnarly. Whoa. And it was just like pure messages of kindness and support from people I did not know. Yeah, like God was literally speaking to you through these people, yes, holy crap. Yeah, wow, I've had a lot of God testaments on this podcast. Amazing, it's really cool. Like I'm not, I feel like I'm in my like sadly, like my spiritual hiatus. Like, I feel like I've struggled a lot with like making God a priority. And so the fact that like I've had so many people, I'm like, this is crazy. Wild. Yeah, cool. Why am I crying so much? Can I hold your hand? That's so crazy. Yeah, I'm just so happy that they said something to you. Me too. Cause like, like, I don't know. The world needs you, you know. The world needs you. Oh my god, I'm a mess. I'm not usually the first one to cry on these things. I'm usually the sympathetic crier. That just really hit different. I don't know why. Well good, yeah. Okay, I'm good. I love you. I love you too. I'm so proud of you, dude. That is so wild. And for you to still be playing is like the craziest part. Yeah. Like you healed and you did the work to be able to show up for your sport again and and commit to something that you love and find find the love again. And I think that's where I kind of wanted to ask you, like, how did you do that? Because I know a lot of people ask me, you know, I feel like I fell out of love for my sport. I feel like it's become toxic, and then they want to leave. Yeah. But and we just watched, you know, Alyssa Liu like leave her sport, love her, fellow Bruin. Yes, but like leave her sport when it got toxic and come back and win freaking gold. Like iconic. Iconic. And I think that that's so important for people to know that there is always that opportunity to leave your sport and if you want to come back to it when you're passionate again or when you miss it. Yeah. Like, how did you know when it was time and safe to go back? To beach volleyball. Yeah. Well, for for like the eating disorder recovery, because I've given you my list. I have a lot of stories. I have a lot of overcoming that I did. And this is only part of it, which is the craziest part. But for the eating disorder recovery, it was all like medical reasons that I was monitoring myself and like and and trusted my body again to like be able to handle the demands of beach volleyball because beach volleyball is like such a physically demanding sport. You're like you're out in the the hot sun and you're sweating your your body weight out in water and like your electrolytes have to be good and then like your your weight has to be stable enough to be able to like manage those those fluctuations and and also your like muscle capacity has to be crazy with all the explosive movements that we do. Yeah. Um so like for me I had lost my period for four and a half years, and I wow, four and a half years. Yeah. Like I was sick, I was very oh my god, deep in. Yes. Um, so for me, it was like really important that I re-established my menstrual cycle and had it consistently before I stepped back onto the court because I was like, like you said, I'm gonna have kids one day. Yeah. Like I am not going to put them at risk any longer, right? Like I'm gonna get my menstrual cycle back, and also like I need to make sure my bone density is okay. Yeah. I am like blessed with bone genetics. I don't let's go again. You're a freak athlete. Thank God your body could just withstand. And I have to like shout out to my parents for this one because like my dad's a freak athlete, and also they like put me in every single sport under the sun when I was really a kid. Yeah. So like I think I just developed really good bone density from like being such a high-level athlete for so long. Oh, shout out to Tan fam. I know, thank you. Specifically my dad. My dad's the my dad's a sports fanatic, so I love it. Yeah, so um I I was lucky, like my bone density did go down while I while I Oh, so you got it tested and everything. Yeah, I wow. I had a couple of DEXA scans and like you could see the decrease. Oh shit. Yeah, but like thankfully it still stayed within the normal range. I was like, yeah, I was very blessed in that regard. So um, so but like re-establishing my cycle was and I'm on my period now, hey. Let's go! In my loot heal, feeling nice and bloody. But I'm like so happy about it. Like every time I get my period now, I'm like You have gratitude. I'm so grateful. That's really cool. Like, oh, I feel like shit, but I am like Yeah, you're like at least I have her. I'm bleeding. Like, thank you. Like it's it's it's and I like never thought I would say that when it was gone, because like to some degree you feel better when you don't have one because like you don't have to to go through all the you don't have to worry about playing like shit when your hormones are dropping, you know. Right, yeah, yeah, and like the mood swings and yeah, you know, everything that comes with it. Um, but yeah, now I'm just like wow, what a blessing it is to like be able to reproduce and have my healthy hormones. That's so cool. Like it is a gift, yeah. That's amazing. Yeah, we did have a little walk o'clock recently, and that was our first time ever meeting, which I think is kind of insane because I feel like I've known you for forever. Shout out my chiropractor for connecting me to you because Casey. Shout out Casey Wood, because literally, also, I never met you at UCLA, which is wild. Wild, yeah, but you came in or you graduated in 2017, yes, and I came in at 2017. Oh so we had one year together, I think, and then that was it. So yeah, tough, but I'm so glad that the universe brought us together now because you're such a light. Oh, thank you. But we did talk about injuries, and you've had kind of a gnarly battle with some injuries now. Oh my gosh, Casey knows this. Yeah, where's Casey at? We should bring him on. But like he should say here. Chasing a professional career is no joke, it's not for the week. And yeah, tell me about this journey with your injuries. Yeah, oh my gosh. Um okay, so I mean, injuries. I thankfully, I don't know how this happened, but I never got severely injured while I was battling anorexia, you know. Like, neither did I. Yeah, my body was somehow like incredibly resilient, and that's really not everybody's path. Like I'm I'm a psychotherapist now, so I see people with eating disorders in my practice, and like very often they have coinciding injuries just because like their body isn't able to handle the stress of being malnourished or like or having those big fluctuations in nourishment. Well, and your bone density's struggling. Right, yeah. Like I I could see that like people getting stress fractures very easily because of the impact from sport, like it's already hard enough on our bodies as is. Yeah. And then put on top of that not eating. Right. Yeah. Yeah. So that like wasn't my story, which I was really grateful for. Um, but then after I recovered from anorexia, um, and then like the pandemic hit, right? Which like put a halt on pretty much all professional athletics for a while. Um ended my career. Good thing or bad thing? Horrible thing. Sobbed. It was like how you felt about not wedding an adieu. Yeah. I was like devastated. I think anytime anything that you wanted so desperately is ripped away is just it's a level of pain and and kind of grief that you really it is grief. You have to grieve back. Yeah. Yeah. Like I grew, I yeah, I firmly believe it's the reason I still do gymnastics to this day. I never got closure. Oh, yeah. Which is like cool, but also, am I okay? Sounds like some inner child work needs to be explained. Yeah, you know, sports swap is healing my inner child, so at least that's good. Yeah. Yeah. Never got to do sports growing up, so now we're doing it. Okay. At the right babe at the age of 27. I mean, you still have so many years left to like do all these different things, but yeah. Love it. Okay. So when did you get injured? I just Yeah. Um, so 2020, I think. Yeah, 2020. So obviously, like pandemic hit. Um I graduated with my master's in public health that year. Period. Um, period. And then my brother also got diagnosed with brain cancer, which was like like around the same time that you graduated. So back up. Graduated in 2017. Um, started the master's at UCLA, had to take like six months off from that to go heal from the eating disorder, right? Because like the whole relapse happened. Um, and then came back to my master's where I like received the impact fellowship for writing that. Congratulations, by the way. Thanks. Yeah, that was really how did you win it? I wrote a poem that's like 10 pages long about eating disorder recovery. I'll send it to you. Yeah, I want to read it. You'll cry again. Perfect. I love crying. Um, yeah, that's like so impactful. Yeah, it was it was a really special thing that just kind of like flowed out of me just like one night. Wow. Yeah. Um, and then I submitted it and it won. Wow. Um, I also have like a video recording of it. Congratulations. Thanks. That's huge. Yeah, that was that was like that was really cool to be able to like turn my story into art. Yeah. Yeah. Absolutely. Yeah. Um, so yeah, and then I we were doing like online school at that point because the pandemic hit and we had to like shift everything online. I graduated, didn't even have a graduation ceremony um for that master's because of the pandemic. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Um, and then my brother got diagnosed with brain cancer like shortly after that, um, within that same year. And um about a month after he got diagnosed, I was just playing tennis with my dad to like blow off steam, like one change of direction, and my ligament and my ankle just snapped. And I like I just heard a pop, like went down, excruciating pain. I slammed into the like my ankle like snapped and then I slammed into the ground. So um, so I was like, oh my god, like it was so intense, but I was like, I just gotta walk this off. Like my my brother has cancer, I can't like put all this pressure on my family. I gotta find a way to take care of myself. Like so I was living with my family at the time, and I went to my PT, um, who I've seen for years down there. She was like really helpful um when I was in high school, and she just thought it was a sprain. So and like this is the first injury I've ever, like first major injury I'd had in my life. So I didn't like go to an orthopedic surgeon to know, yeah. I didn't think I needed to. Um, and there was like all the stress of what was going on with my family. So you were trying to keep the spotlight off you kind of, and like I knew I needed help, but it was I felt like really weird asking for any sort of help with this. Because you're like, my problems are so much smaller, and that yeah, yeah. So I just like wrapped it up and hobbled around. My god, dude. Um, and like started doing PT rehab. I should have at least had it in a boot or something, yeah. You know? Um, and then like four months later, I finally go and got it MRI'd, and they were like, Yeah, your anterior tallofibular ligament is like fully torn. And you have like a cartilage defect because like that's where it like slammed into the floor. Oh shit. Um casual, yeah. So and you were hobbling along on a fully torn ligament. Yes that's not chill at all. Not good. No, definitely not really gnarly. Yeah, so I didn't get surgery on it, which was also another dumb decision. But again, like my brother's battling brain cancer, like I'm stressed. I didn't want to like give up physical activity by that point. I was already rehabbing it, and like my rehab was actually going well, like the swelling was going down, and uh my PT was like, Well, if you don't need surgery, like don't get it, you know. Um, but I don't think honestly like love her. I don't think that she really thought I was gonna go pursue professional athletics again. Fair. And and so she thought like this is a manageable amount for a normal person, right? But when you're pushing yourself as a professional athlete, right, different, very different, like um especially running in the sand. Are you kidding me? If you've ever run in the sand, you know it's like not chill on the ankles, your ankles need to be intact, yes, and they need to be very sturdy because you're gonna be hit in rolls left and right, right, yeah. So, um, long story short to that, like I rehabbed to the ankle, it went fine. Um, but then because of the instability in my ankle that was like kind of chronic and it like really stiffened up, I tore my meniscus in my right knee. Um, playing like a fun volleyball tournament one day. And that, and then like I got ended up getting a partial menisectomy on that one first because it was just like so painful. Like it was like sliding around in there. Um, rehabbed that, and then I got surgery on my left ankle because I finally just realized that like there's there's no avoiding it. Yeah, yeah. There's no avoiding it. I need to like just like reconstruct that ligament essentially and make sure that my ankle is sturdy if I ever want to have a chance at competing at the highest level again. I was gonna say you're investing in your future self, you're doing it for future you because you knew that deep down you were gonna want to get back into athletics. Right. So you were gonna have to have your ankle intact. Yes. And I actually like I waited until my brother passed away to get the surgery because it was I knew it was gonna be so intense to heal from that. And I also like I think I was dealing with so much stress and I was so afraid of losing him and honestly going through so much grief that like I couldn't imagine not walking for like six weeks. Well, yeah, you know, like healing not being there to for your family during that time. Like you toughed it out to be able to be present for them. Yeah, wow, yeah, yeah. But how crazy was it to sit in that grief and be bedridden for six weeks? Like that's I think way worse because you're forced to sit in it, yeah. I mean, like looking back, it might have been actually good if I like did it while he was still here because I would have just like hung out with him and sat there with him. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. Um but you know, hindsight is always 2020. Um I just like I love him so much. Yeah. Um yeah, I like after I got the surgery, I honestly went through a period of like I shoved that grief down. Um and I thought that I was feeling through it, but I really wasn't. I was just like distracting myself with a lot of things. I was doing my master's in social work to like become a become a psychotherapist, and I was really distracting myself with school and with the rehab, and what ended up happening was I got functional neurological disorder. What is that? Um a really trippy thing where like the the neuropathways in your brain that um that have to do with like movement, pain, like all these areas of your limbic system, so like heart rate, breathing, movement, pain patterns, um everything that's automatic that we don't really think about, like in your limbic system, if you're suppressing your emotions and uh going through enough like trauma, those things can get mixed up. Oh. So you know, like have you heard of like somaticizing symptoms? Like Yes. Um like instead of feeling grief, you might have pain going down your leg. I was gonna say I process trauma through my body. Right. So like I like my hands go numb, my body. Yes, like my legs will go numb. Right. Um, I'll have like tightness in my chest. Like I feel everything in my body first. Yes. Before I feel it in my head. I'm the same way. Okay. Yeah. So I basically had like a very special thing. Wait, do I have that? No, you don't. Okay, okay. I treat it now. Okay, great. I'm like self-diagnosing. I'm like, Web MD missing you right now. Do not do not ever. Web MD is a big no-no. My dad's a doctor, okay? I can't. That's bad. Oh my god. I just call him. My dad is my WebMD. Good. Good. Yeah, no Doctor Google here, no Dr. Google here. It's not a good idea. Um, so you developed this because you were shoving trauma down and you had so much trauma built up in your body that your body just kind of lost some connections. Everything went haywire. It basically started having seizure-like movements without actual seizures. Yeah. What? Yeah, it was nuts. Um, I went to this meditation retreat, and like during the meditation retreat, we were like experiencing, you know, like movements in our bodies as like the energy like moved through us or like blah blah blah. Um, and my the neuropathways in my brain basically like didn't stop facilitating those movements. Like they got stuck on them because I was in such a fight or flight state already. Yeah. So like if you're in a sustained state of fight or flight, your your brain can basically like take something that you felt. Like let's say you like went through the stomach flu and you had like nausea and stomach pain, and um, and it can like keep sending those signals in order to like protect you from grief. Wild. Or like distract you from anxiety, right? It's literally just a survival technique. Yes, exactly. Yeah, because like imagine a tiger is chasing you, and your limbic brain is gonna do whatever it needs to do in order to either keep you running or shut you down, yeah. Right. And so, like, one of the ways it can shut you down is through pain or symptoms. Um, basically, like taking your ability to like engage with life and just like pulling you out of it. Wow. So it's like a very protective and like loving part of your brain, right? But it's like really uncomfortable. Yeah. When you have 30 different symptoms that you can't explain. Yeah. Um, and and like doctors are telling you like it's all in your head or you're crazy, like these symptoms don't have to be. Literally, just full-blown gas lit, yeah. Well, yeah, because like every test is coming back normal. And like, thank God it was coming back normal. But I was like, no, I feel very wrong. Yeah, something super off. Yes. Yeah. Like my knee is swelling up like a balloon, and I'm also dizzy, and I feel like I'm gonna black out, and I'm having seizure-like movements, and I can't sleep, and like I'm having a hyperthyroid issue, and like and you're telling me it's all in my head, right? It's so crazy what stress can do to the body. Like, I've seen stress show up in so many scary ways, and so many different people in my life, and like realizing that it's just like we just need to take care of ourselves and have some balance. It's like right, sometimes that's just the answer. It's so it's such a trip to me that like it can show up in those different ways. Right. But it sucks when you're in it because you're like, again, you're gaslighting yourself. You're like, I don't know what's going on, and I need to go to the doctor, right? But the doctor's telling me everything's fine, I'm supposed to trust this person. Right. That's horrible. Yeah, and then you start seeking like all these alternative medicines. They're like holistic healing and Right. And then I've spent like 10 grand on a bunch of stuff that like I don't even know has helped, right? And it's like out of my own personal savings, and it was just like a whole journey of like dead ends. Um, and then I was like, okay, if this is actually emotional, then I guess I need to like figure out how to feel better. Yeah, like just work through. Yeah. Yeah. Um, and I was like, okay, there's really nothing to lose if I try to actually like feel my feelings more effectively and like really dive deep into whatever it is that I might be suppressing. Um, and so like what came out was grief and rage and like disbelief that my brother was gone, and like honestly, just like so much rage. Like rage at God and like rage at myself for not being there, like more for him. Yeah. And um like I didn't want to feel any of that. Like, I didn't I didn't even want to go there. I was like, no, I can be happy and like you know, put on a good face and and like be strong. Like I'm fucking such a good athlete and like such a strong person and like I'm kind and I'm gracious and like I want to be all of those things for like everybody else. I didn't want to be like this like little ball of rage and anger that was just like so pissed at life because my brother was gone. Um so I like I I spent like a lot of time working through that, and I like again wasn't playing because I was like rehabbing and working through that. Yeah. And then all my symptoms, like one by one, like the seizure-like movements, the chronic pain, the insomnia, the thyroid issues, like they all just went away. Wow. As I worked through that. And I was like, I couldn't, I could not believe how like intertwined my emotional world was with like what my physical body was doing. Wow. And then I was like, I'm gonna go play professional sports again. Cause if I can get through that you can get through anything. Like they're okay, eating disorder couldn't take me down, like brother dying kinda took me out for a while. But like I made it through all my emotions, and now I'm just gonna go like take on the world again because oh, and by the way, work full time as a therapist as well. Yeah, we also skipped over that. You're literally a full therapist. Oh my gosh. Like even trying to schedule this podcast and everything, I was like, what's your schedule look like? She's like, so I have a lot of patience this week, and I'm also training to you know play in the AVP, you know, leaving for Brazil in a few days. Going to Brazil to compete. Mind you, I have to pay for that flight because AVP doesn't pay for it. Anyone wants to sponsor me? Yes. If anyone wants to sponsor you, please reach out. I think every beach volleyball player deserves to have at least one sponsor because that sport is no joke. I play it every weekend. Reactive is one of my like my only sponsor. Period now. Yeah, they're amazing. I also work for them. They're they're the clinic that treats functional neurodisorders. Oh my god. So I mean that was like a total God story too. Like we we just connected and they decided to sponsor me, and now I work for them as well. That's amazing. Yeah, they're that's so full circle. Yes. Wow. Yeah. So I think there's anyone else. Yeah, literally, anyone else. Call me. I think that's also so cool and so important for athletes to hear that you finally recognizing the weight and the gravity of your emotions and how it can physically harm you is so key. Because I think as athletes, we have this tendency and we've been conditioned to believe that if we shove it down, if we ignore it, if we act tougher, if we get tougher, it'll all be okay. And like, look at what's happening. These athletes are struggling. These athletes have mental health concerns, they have real life problems now because we were told to shove it down. Right. And it's like it never goes away. No, it has to go somewhere. It's gotta go somewhere, and if it's not coming out, it's affecting other things. And I think that that's such a cool story. So thank you for sharing that because it I think will wake up a lot of people to recognize the importance of mental health, but also feeling your emotions in the moment because when we shut it down, it's just it gets really scary. It does, yeah. And a lot of people I think don't they don't want to even be open to the idea that their emotional world could be manifesting physically, yeah. Like if it's if it's in my body, then it must have a structural issue, or if it's in my body and like it's autoimmune, then the only way to heal it is through like some sort of pharma pharmacological intervention. Yeah. Um, and there like the nervous system controls everything, like it governs everything in our bodies, and like I mean, from like my perspective, I'm obviously biased because I work with the brain for my profession, but like if we start with the source, how much better are we gonna get? So much more efficient as well. Yes, yeah, yeah. I I always say I think we're we as humans are tapping into maybe like 0.01% of our brain capacity. Like, it is such an incredible like source of access. Like, we are not using our brains enough, and we're not using our brains for us enough, right? Like, even you can think about, I mean, a time in your life that caused trauma. You can think about a really painful moment in your athletic career, whatever it is. Your body feels it immediately, immediately how trippy that we can create trauma response in our body, we can create a trigger without even really trying that hard, right? And I think that alone should show people like the power of the mind, yes, and using it for the good and not allowing it to take control, right? Yeah, and like I feel like I feel really lucky to like understand now, like I have this really intimate relationship with my own nervous system. And I like I really understand like when I'm having a physiological response to something, it could mean XYZ. And so it's like it's this like wonderful roadmap to like what I need to pay attention to. You have the clarity, yes, yeah. Instead of like, oh my god, I'm having a symptom, like what's happening? Yeah, what does that mean for my health, or like can I not trust myself, you know? Like it's it's now just become like like I know how to communicate with myself. You're so in tune. Yes, that's so cool, very attuned with how I'm feeling at all times, which sometimes is like very overwhelming. Yeah, and you know a little too much, you're like sometimes ignorance is blessed, but I mean that's why I was like anorexia helped me like shove that all down, yeah, right? Like I didn't have to feel as much, yeah, because I didn't know how to deal with all that, yeah. Right, like FND also helped me shove that all down because I was so fixated on symptoms that I didn't have to feel my grief. It's a distraction, exactly essentially, like a big fat, very effective distraction. Yeah, yeah, and like and now it's like okay, I feel through everything and I'm like not afraid to feel through all my emotions, whether they be extreme joy or extreme grief or like pure rage. Yeah. Because I would rather feel those things than like be incapacitated because my leg is shaking. Yeah. And that's why I'm always such a huge advocate for building out your your core group and your core community, because I'm such a talk-to-think person that if I don't talk it out, it's sitting in there. Yeah, and she's toxic. And so, like having people that I know I can literally call any time of the day, and they'll pick up and I can just let it out has been such a good nervous system regulator. Amazing. Because I have a tendency to have the tough girl mentality and like it's fine, I'm gonna shove it down and deal with it later. Right. But it's the same, it's kind of the same thing that we've been talking about this whole time of like, do it for your future self. I think that's been a really common theme with our conversation. It's just like do it for your future babies, do it for your future, you know, bone density, but also do it for your future enjoyment of life, do it for your mental health. Yes, because you know the you know the routine. There is a toxic cycle, and the moment you recognize the cycle is when you can break it. And I think just having, like you said, that awareness is what's really gonna give you the power to put it to a stop. Yeah. So yeah, awareness is power for sure. Yeah, for sure. Yeah, knowledge is power, but also knowledge is peace. Yes, yes, and also just like trusting what your body's telling you it's not against you, yeah, yeah. Your body has these symptoms for a reason, like it's there to protect you. Okay, I really want to get into my favorite segment. Yeah, it's my only segment, but I always say it's my favorite. It can be your favorite and your only. Yeah. Um, it's called Dear Athlete. It's kind of a fun little spin off of Dear Abby, which is like the advice column in the newspaper. And I think that it's so fun to be able to connect with our audience. So that's kind of what we're gonna do. Okay. So I have questions already written down that your followers ask. Yeah. What? Yeah. Okay. First question best advice for achieving dreams. Honestly, dude, follow your heart. Like, I was not following my heart for the longest time. I was trying to like please everybody else except for myself, and that was like the wrong move. I love that. Even this is like the hardest thing for me to say, but even if it's not what your family wants for you, right? Because like I love my family so much, but they had like different desires for me. Like, I followed my own, and then and like now our relationship is better. Yeah. Well, because you're happier and you're fulfilling your dreams and you're doing what fills your cup, and so you can be the best version of yourself. Exactly. You can't be the best version of yourself if you're doing it for other people. Right. I love that answer. For me, I would say believe in yourself as much as you believe in others. I think it's so easy to root for everyone else, but you gotta learn to root for yourself. I love it. And be bold and be brave and try new things. Because unless you try, you won't know. Right. And I think because as humans, we have this propensity to protect ourselves from harm and from discomfort, it's really easy to stay in our comfort zones. So just being brave enough to try something new. And even if you fail at it, I don't really believe in the word failure. I believe in trying, and I think trying is succeeding. Yeah, because that means you're one step closer to success. So yeah, just try. I don't know. Try, amazing, do it, yeah, leave your ego at the door. Who cares? Take a chance on you. Yeah, literally take a chance. Okay, how does one get and stay motivated? Discipline for me. Um, I would say like 80% of the time actually, I am like not motivated to do what I need to do, but I like I set a routine, I go to practice every day, I lift weights three times a week, I see all my patients, you know, like I have to I have to just carry out my routine, and like that's like fuel for the fire to like keep at it. Yeah. Um, I see actually like a lot of graphics that come up on Instagram for me about like the difference between discipline and motivation, and like motivation comes in spurts. Yeah, right. It's a feeling, yes, it's a feeling, and it's not super controllable. No, yeah, like some days you will feel incredibly motivated and you run with it. Oh yeah, right. But like discipline actually, like you'll get more motivated if you stay disciplined towards like your goals. Yeah, yeah. I love that. I was gonna say, yeah, like discipline is a structure, motivation is a feeling, and feelings change. Yes, and life happens, and it's really hard to stay motivated when life happens. But um, for those of you listening, I recommend Atomic Habits, phenomenal book for building structure and environment that helps facilitate staying disciplined, staying motivated. Because a lot of times what we forget is we're not setting ourselves up for success to stay disciplined, even. Like you can say, I'm gonna be disciplined. How are you gonna be disciplined? Are you, you know, buying the best running shoes to help you feel really comfortable when you go on your walks? Are you putting your running shoes at the door so that when you wake up, you put them on, you go? There's very like, it's basically eliminating room for losing that momentum and also having to make decisions. Because I think a lot of times when we have too much time to make decisions, we always choose comfort. Obvi. We love being comfy, guilty, right? But like eliminating that time to like, hmm, what should I do? No, the answer is this, and that just comes with preparation and creating an environment that's gonna facilitate that. So really recommend that book. It helped me a lot with building structure because as a girl boss and being my own boss, yeah, like creating that structure is so difficult. And I just I remember being so unmotivated and beating myself up every single day. And I'm like, I know I'm a hard worker, I know I can devote myself to whatever I'm passionate about because I've proven myself time and time again, but I didn't have an environment that facilitated it and that that helped me to execute. So it's not you, babe, it's your environment. I love that. Don't beat yourself up. You're doing great. Um, okay, this is super fun and very on brand for us. What is your go-to meal for staying strong? Love that they asked about staying strong and not staying skinny. Because, like, the moment I read that, I was like, go, girl. We love eating to be strong. Yes. Thank you for asking that question. Um, staying strong. I mean, I honestly I really focus on protein. Yeah, same meals. Everything's protein focused. Yeah. Yeah, but like also carbohydrates, right? Yeah. Like, because the protein, your body can't utilize that protein effectively if there's not like carbohydrates with it, yeah. Right. In order to, in order to build and maintain that muscle. So, but like, I don't know if there's any one meal that I eat. It's like steak, like chicken, steak, salmon. Um, but yeah, just centering your food around protein, I think it makes it really simple. Yeah. I think a lot of times we overcomplicate food and we also glorify food a lot. Where it's like food is fuel. Yeah. And as long as you're putting premium food fuel in the tank, you're golden. Yeah. But I'm a big like Whole Foods girl. Like, not the place Whole Foods. Whole Foods is really expensive, actually. And I don't love Whole Foods. But eating Whole Foods. If I could eat there every day, I wouldn't. I would. But I'd be broke. But like also sponsor me. Yeah, also sponsor her. But yeah, like focusing on whole foods that don't have labels, that don't have a bunch of ingredients, like less is more. And I'm a big also like avoid, I'm kind of an almond mommy. Like my my mom's an almond mom, so then therefore I am also almond curly. But I avoid like really bad inflammatory foods or um seed oils. Okay. Gums, all that. Just try to be mindful about that because my body hurts if I eat it. Okay. So being mindful about that, but also fueling your body. Yeah. I think I like because of my eating disorder history, I get like um, I'm pretty inclusive with like the types of food that foods that I eat. Um, and I've done a lot of like nervous system regulation around like in inflammatory foods. Yeah, like foods that used to really bother me. They don't really anymore. Good. Because I've like regulated my nervous system enough to like handle them. Yeah. Um, all that to say is though, like I think, yeah, for athletes, whole foods are really important, making sure that you're getting like um nutrients that are from the source, essentially. Um, but also like I will get a convenient snack. I am yeah, I am not a convenient snack is better than not eating. Yes. So absolutely we'll take that win. Absolutely any day of the week. Yeah. But being, yeah, just being mindful of like this food is is gonna determine how I perform. So just be mindful. Yeah, but just don't develop an eating disorder. Yeah. Long story short, moral of the entire story. Eat your damn food, babe. Balance is key. Yes. Well, that is all I have for you. Yay! I am so glad we got to talk. You're an absolute gem. And I knew the second that we sat down, it would be immediate vibes and just it'd be so easy to talk to you. So thank you for being vulnerable and sharing your story. Thank you for having me on. This is so fun. Like, what an amazing setup. Also, like brew and fam. I love it so well. I love whenever I get alumni on. It's like so special. Yeah. We're doing our our alumni proud. Yeah. We really are. Yeah. Go Bruins. Go Bruins, baby. Four's up. Um, be sure to follow her on everything. You're crushing it. I can't wait to follow along your journey. I'm so glad that we live near each other now. I get to come to all your games. Good luck in Brazil. More walk and talks. Yes. I'm so excited. Um, be sure to also subscribe, follow along, and I'll see you on the next one. See you next Wednesday. Love you. Goodbye.