Gracie & Rachel on Running 250 Miles, Breaking Records, & Proving Women Can Do Anything

In this episode of Athletes After Hours, I am so honored to sit down with ultrarunner and physical therapist Rachel Entrekin fresh off one of the most remarkable performances in endurance sports history. Rachel opens up about what it was really like to run 250 miles across the Arizona desert, endure extreme sleep deprivation, battle through unimaginable physical and mental challenges, and ultimately become the first woman ever to win the Cocodona 250 outright, crossing the finish line ahead of all the men and women in the field.

But this conversation goes far beyond running. Rachel shares her deeply personal journey recovering from an eating disorder, including the difficult reality of going to rehab twice and rebuilding her relationship with food, exercise, and herself. Together, we explore how healing, not restriction, became the foundation that allowed her to perform at the highest level and how learning to properly fuel her body ultimately helped her accomplish what once seemed impossible. This episode is a powerful conversation about resilience, recovery, self worth, and the incredible things that can happen when we stop fighting our bodies and start working with them. Whether you're an athlete or simply navigating your own challenges, Rachel's story is one you won't forget.

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Transcript

SPEAKER_03 0:00

Hey Athletics After Hours listeners, you can now watch on Spotify. If you're subscribed to Spotify Premium, you can watch ad-free. Now let's get into the episode.

SPEAKER_01 0:07

The first year I did Cocodona, I died. Died. So the the beak really kicked out. Yeah, I still managed to win the race, but I died.

SPEAKER_03 0:18

She didn't just win a race, she made history. Today's guest took on one of the most grueling endurance events on the planet, the Cocodona 250. Over 250 miles, smashed the course record by over two and a half hours, climbed more elevation than Mount Everest, battled brutal conditions and sleep deprivation, and the most impressive part of it all, she kept a smile on her face the entire time. When she crossed the finish line, she became the first woman in history to win the race outright, beating every female and male competitor in the field and reminding every woman that they're capable of far more than they've been led to believe. But what impresses me most isn't the victory, it's the person behind it. After accomplishing something most people can't even begin to comprehend, she stayed for two more days to cheer on fellow runners as they finished the race. She's a physical therapist, a world-class professional ultrarunner, and proof that limits are meant to be challenged. Rachel Endriken, welcome to Athletes After Hours. Thanks. Happy to be here. Oh my God, I'm so excited you're here. We've literally been yapping for so long. It's like, I'm like, how much time you got, girl? How about we just start? Let's just hit record. No, literally. I was like, we might as well just, I guess, press the record button because we have so much to catch up on. I mean, first of all, I'm so grateful that you could come and be here in person. This is so special. Old stomping grounds. Yeah. She's back in her little city. I was like, wait, you're you lived in LA? Like, this is so fun for you. And she was, she texted me and she's like, I'm just over at Manhattan Beach Pier. Like, let me know when you want me to pop over. I'm like, I love this. This is so fun. So obviously, you are quite the baddie, I suppose. A humble baddie, if you will. I guess. I just have to know, how are you feeling? Uh, good. How long is it? Is it been a month? I guess it's been a month now.

SPEAKER_01 2:09

I mean, you know, it's it's been really funny because obviously the week of the race, I just assume I'm not getting any sleep. Yeah. Either I'm racing or I'm I do not leave the finish line pretty much for the entire week. Okay. Um, just because, you know, that the week of that race is my Christmas. Yeah. I'm just like there with all my friends and we're all doing this thing, and then we get to celebrate people finishing, and it's it's really, really cool to me. And so um, yeah, I and I was staying right by the finish line, and so it's great. And it was pretty warm in my room, and so every night we would just open the windows, which was stupid because people come in and they woo, and then you wake up and it's like 3 30 in the morning. Um, but whatever. But you had FOMO. You're like, I want to know who's crossing the finish line. It was, I would like, I could like look out the window and see. You know, literally like, how you guys get it? Good job, good job, Jim. Congratulations. Exactly. Um that's so cute. But yeah, so I didn't really sleep any that week, and then I got home and was immediately bombarded with like I don't even know how many media requests.

SPEAKER_03 3:07

Well, girl, you blew the fuck up. Yeah, it was pretty wild. I mean, as you should. I think you should have blown up even more, truly. Maybe maybe. I mean I mean that's what we're here for. We're here to blow you the hell up. Great. Because you deserve all your flowers. No, you know what? You deserve a whole garden.

SPEAKER_01 3:21

Uh, I'll take a garden, especially if it's stuff I can eat. That'll be really fun. Um, but yeah, so I'm but I'm and then actually I went to France. Yeah, how was that? It was super sick. You had a race out in France. I didn't race, I was there for a um, I work with a company called Boley Eyewear, and they were doing an athlete summit, and so I went to that. And I had agreed to go like two weeks prior to Coca-Dona. He had my athlete manager had asked me if I was interested. Yeah. And I was like, Oh, you know, I don't know, I'll be pretty tired. And then I sat there and I was like, I'm about to turn down a free trip to France. Like, that is not the kind of person that I want to be. Yes. And so I I called him back and I was like, wait, is it too late? He was like, No, it's not too late. And so I was I was only there for five days. So it was really fast. Oh, girl. It was a really fast turnaround.

SPEAKER_03 4:04

So on top of running 250 miles and not sleeping for two and a half days, I went to the You went straight to France. Yep, went to France.

SPEAKER_01 4:12

Get lagged and then back. I didn't sleep at all for like 36 hours, and then I slept for 17 hours, and then I slept for like three hours the next. So it was just all messed up. Yeah, I'm like, how are your hormones? Probably terrible. But I feel okay. I mean, I did um I have a my I took I brought somebody with me here to LA because I wanted to show him my old life. Cute and um Ohio, have you been there? Yeah. Gorge. Love that place. So there's a 36-mile route that has almost 10,000 feet of climbing. Holy crap. And I was like, let's do it! And so we did it yesterday. And so I guess I feel okay.

SPEAKER_03 4:50

I was pretty tired on the last climb, but okay. But your version of Tired, I think, is like anyone's version of like the best day of ever. Like probably on, you know, sit at Disneyland. Like you were literally the energizer bunny. It's relative. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 5:04

Um, but it was really, but I yeah, I'm back to running. I think um, I'm still I am a little tired. Like, I just don't quite have the same giddy up. Yeah. Um, it's funny because I'm pacing my friend Devin at Scout Mountain 100 this weekend, and you're a real friend for that. It's fun. Um, and also I owe so many people so much of my time for all that they've given me. Um, and so yeah, I was thinking, oh man, I wish I was running this race. Like, that'd be so cool. Cause I really want to do Scout Mountain quite badly. Yeah. But it's a really fast turnaround from Coca-Dona. Yeah. Um and I was running yesterday and I was like, thank God I'm not doing it because like I'm I don't know, I just don't have that extra gear. So how many miles is that one? Uh scout's a hundred. Okay. Or maybe a little bit more, but it's a hundred, it's a hundred miler. Okay. Um, but it's tough. It's in Poca, it's outside of Pocatello, Idaho. So I'm really excited. I've never been to Pocaillo. I love Idaho.

SPEAKER_03 5:53

I do too. It's beautiful. It's beautiful there. Yeah. Oh, it's such a cool spot. That's insane, first of all. Like the fact that you're just but I think I can already tell you're the kind of person where if you're doing something for someone else, it doesn't require any energy. It's just like, it's not even a thought. You're just like, yeah, I'm there. You find it, you find the energy. Like you dig deep and you're like, yeah, I'll make it work. Like I'm gonna be there. Yeah. Do you think that you're maybe more tired from this specific situation? Because you've done the race prior. You've done the race now three times. Yeah, this is my third. Your third time. Would you say that this is like probably the hardest recovery just because people are interrupting your recovery though?

SPEAKER_01 6:29

Well, it's it's interesting actually, because this is the first time that I haven't had to go back to work on Monday. Oh, the Monday afterwards. So this might be my I don't I don't know. I think they've all been hard, but for different reasons. Because like going back to work and I remember And being normal. And being normal. Oh my God. Being normal and have to act like you're not the baddest bitch in the room. As a physical therapist, all my patients are being like, oh yeah, you know, my back hurts because I sit too much, and I'm just sitting there, I've just run 250 miles, and I'm like, oh my god, I want to punch you. And I'm like, I'm like rubbing people's backs, just like, please somebody offer to do this for me. So um and I'm like, I remember having to like, I know I remember having to um demonstrate, I think like a single-legged squat or something on like Tuesday. It was just like crap. Like my form is gonna be really bad. I'm really sorry. Just do it. Can we not find anyone else to do that? I know what in the world. Yeah. So um, but yeah, I remember last year my schedule was really suboptimal for immediately following this race. Yeah. I did four 11-hour days in a row, and then I was off the following Friday, and it was like pain. And I remember I was just waiting to get to that Friday. I was just and I was praying that my patients canceled. But when you take a week off of work and healthcare, all of your patients don't cancel when you get balls after. Yeah. And so I had like 18 to 22 patients a day, like every single day. And then I finally made it Friday and I was just like collapsed on the floor.

SPEAKER_03 7:55

I'm sorry. If I was your patient, I'd be like, I'm my sister just ran 250 miles. Let's give her a break. Yeah. None of y'all come through. Like give her a second. That would have been nice. I would drop off the grid.

SPEAKER_01 8:07

Yeah. I mean, I haven't been able to ever. Yeah. But it's fine. I mean, most of most of my patients, every time I come back to work, including when I was at Select in Marina, um, everybody was so pumped. Yeah. And it was like half the time, I mean, we of course we would talk about, you know, what they were coming in for and stuff, but most of the time it was almost like a podcast where they're like, so what, like, how many hours or how many minutes did you sleep? And like, what did you eat? Did you use the bathroom? I don't even like to drive that far. Like the same kind of crap forever and ever. That's so funny. Yeah. So it was, I mean, it was, it was fun, but it was really tiring. It's exhausting.

SPEAKER_03 8:38

Yeah, it was tiring. Yeah, I I can completely I mean, I can't relate to that at all, but I I can understand how exhausting that would be. So I want to get into the race. Okay. This is insane. I funny enough, found you just through Instagram. Okay. Someone had posted like you're right. Yeah, I mean, not shocking at all. And I'm like, thank God, the first time Doom Scrolling has actually paid off. Yeah. Like, I was so excited to find you. I immediately was like, you're a literal light, like your energy, your vibe, like you're just such a fun person. And then on top of that, you just like happen to be like one of the most bad athletes I've ever interviewed. So I'm just like beaming to be able to talk to you about this. So, my biggest question, I think, when I was, I was trying to write up these questions, and I'm like, what do I want to know? And as why? Fucking why? How many screws are loose? All of them. All of them are loose. What are we running from? I'm just held together with duct tape. There are no screws. Rough wrap round bubble wrap people. Um, I want you to first obviously walk me through the race and maybe tell me like a few core memories that really stick out to you over the last two and a half days that you're running.

SPEAKER_01 9:50

Um, well, I'll tell you about the race itself, like where we go and stuff. Um, so the race starts about 90 minutes north of Flagstaff in a place called Black Canyon City. And it sits at about 2,000 feet. Um, and then you run north, 250 miles, but it's almost in like a Z shape. So you go, um, you go to a and it it's really I love this race because it's almost a historic tour on foot of Arizona. Yeah. So you go up to this old town. I've seen it.

SPEAKER_03 10:20

It's beautiful.

SPEAKER_01 10:21

Okay, that's the best at least.

SPEAKER_03 10:22

It's I mean, that's not the best. All I could think about when is when you guys were saying like it was across the desert. I'm like, it's awesome.

SPEAKER_01 10:30

I mean it's it is brutal, but it is awesome.

SPEAKER_03 10:32

Like, so you just look at cacti all the time. Sort of.

SPEAKER_01 10:34

I mean, the first 37 miles, yes.

SPEAKER_03 10:36

Oh, really?

SPEAKER_01 10:37

But you but you so okay, so you go up to you go up to Crown King, and that's about 10,000 feet of climbing in 37 miles. In the first 37 miles of it. King's in the teeth. Yep. And so, but you go to Crown King. Does it weed people out really fast? I suppose it can, but they really heavily incentivize that you know it's or you know what to expect. Yeah, you know what to expect for the first 37. I think it's after that where people are like, ah, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 11:06

I mean, you're not signing on for a 250 mile or what that's if you're sane.

SPEAKER_01 11:09

If yeah, if you're gonna quit at 37 miles, although people do, yeah um, but but yeah, they it it's notoriously hard. The first day is the hardest part of the race, in my opinion.

SPEAKER_03 11:18

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 11:19

Um, but yeah, so you go up to Crown King, you meet your crew, you go over to Prescott, which is a sick area. Cool, highly recommend if you ever want to go on vacation. It's great, especially in like April. Okay. Um, but yeah, go over to Prescott. It's another, it's another like old um like cowboy town. Okay. So it's really cool. Cool. Um, and then from Prescott, that's at mile like 75. You get to pick up pacers for the first time. So those are people who kind of run with you and keep you company.

SPEAKER_03 11:44

You were doing 75 miles solo.

SPEAKER_01 11:46

But that's okay. I typically do all of my races solo. So pacers, I've only done having a pacer is a treat. It's for me, it's a privilege. And a crew, yeah. I usually do everything by myself. Okay. I'll do 100 milers by myself. And so, but that's I prefer it that way because it's less moving pieces. Fair. And I can just do whatever. I don't have to tell somebody like, yeah, try to meet me. Well, it's like try to meet me at this spot. I think I'll be at this spot in 18 hours. Like, I've noticed. How do you even plan that? I don't know. Yeah, I tried this year with this streets. Sometimes they do. Okay. Yeah, but I mean find my friends. I know, yeah. In the middle of the woods, it's probably not signal. But yeah, true. Um, but yeah, and so you go to Prescott, then um, you kind of wind your way around. Eventually, you hit um a place called Jerome. It's an old mining town, pretty cool. That's the halfway point. And then you go up to Sedona. Oh my god. Sick. Yes, you run through all those red hills, it's really pretty. And then you kind of wind your way into Flagstaff. But before you finish the race, you go up and over this um 9,200-foot peak called Mount Eldon. Um, and that's in the last probably 20 miles. So you've done 230 miles of running, and now you have to summon a 9,000-foot peak, which is just like okay. Who the hell came up with this? Jamil Curry is his name. But um Man Mansall Red.

SPEAKER_03 13:07

Let's just put it that way. He chose violence. He did. Holy crazy.

SPEAKER_01 13:10

But it's a beautiful it really is beautiful. You get to go through all these little communities, really. And it's this is the sixth iteration of the race. And so those towns have really gotten quite invested in the race. Yeah, I've actually seen the same woman with her golden retriever every year. And I've like cool. That's like maybe it's her Christmas too. Maybe, yeah. I mean, it it seems like the relationship between, and this is one thing I really like about this race and the organization is the relationship between the towns and the race is really strong. They rally behind y'all. Yeah, and that's good because you could be getting all these people like smelly, nasty, loud runners going through your town. And like you could not like that. Yeah. Um, but they are really supportive of it. And so that but that speaks well to both the organization and the people who run the race. Yeah. In my opinion. Um but yeah, so it's a cumulative uphill obviously. Peak is always a story. Um, yeah. The first year I did Coca Donna, I died. I died. So the the peak really kicked out. I died. Yeah. I still managed to win the race, but I died. Um, and then the second year I did it, I one of my few goals was to not die on that peak and to choose to have a better attitude on that peak. Yeah. Which check, I did. Yay! Yeah, it was great. And then this year, so in in both of those previous two years, I was able to have pacers. And this year, because of I think it was a permit thing, you weren't allowed to have a pacer. So you had to do it by yourself.

SPEAKER_03 14:40

Get the hell out.

SPEAKER_01 14:41

Yeah. The last 20 miles you had to do solo. And so, which is which I was ready for, or I told myself I was gonna be ready for.

SPEAKER_03 14:49

Um But you can't, there's I mean, how do you even prepare for that? You know what I mean? Like, you don't know how you're gonna respond in that situation. I did, but twice fair enough. Yeah, you like know what's what's gonna start creeping up and then how to quiet it.

SPEAKER_01 15:01

And I and I also realized too, after 2025, I am in control of how I feel. Like if I if I because in 2025, I started to get into a negative headspace and I recognized it and then chose to act differently. I love that. And so I knew I could find that going into 2026, going into this year by myself. And last year I was able to kind of have help. Um, and this year. I was like, okay, I'm yeah, Rob talked in. But it's funny because you asked about my favorite memory, and I have a lot of really positive memories, but one that sticks out involves Mount Eldon.

SPEAKER_03 15:37

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 15:37

So, you know, I'm going into this part of the course, I'm almost done. I'm obviously at this point. I mean, I don't want to say obviously going to win, but like there's no one behind you. I mean, Killian is, but he's seven miles behind me. Like, and I was feeling really strong. Yeah. So I, you know, unless I tripped and fell off the cliff, like I'm probably gonna be fine. Yeah. Or get bit by a snake or something. Yeah. Um, and so I'm running. Um, you do you it's all uphill. And so I'm I'm running around this peak called Little Elden, and then you get to this junction before you start going up the big climb. The big boy. The big boy. And it's like probably six miles, and it's it's two thousand feet up in six miles. It's it's aggressive. Holy crazy. And I've run it before in training, and I it's it's just it's tough. It's really it's tough every time. It's tough. It's just not one of those things that gets fun. Yeah. Yeah. But I'm I'm going around the corner and standing in that junction is a woman in street clothes. Okay. Um, and she's holding something and she's like kind of talking, and I can as I get closer, I can start hearing what she's saying, and it doesn't sound like English. And I'm sitting here like, She's by herself, by herself, and I'm like, is this real? I haven't slept. You're like, and so there's a camera follow behind me. Okay. Um and I don't, I'm not engaging with the camera follow because I want to do this by myself. Yeah. And so they're just, they can just do whatever they want. And so we both get up on this woman and she asks the camera, like, hey, do you mind not filming? It's like, cool, I'm about to get murdered. And so and so I so the camera person turns away. And um and then the woman, I don't know, there was something about her like aura that just made me come to a dead stop. I'm in the middle of a race and I'm just stopping. Um, and she starts talking to me and she starts telling me she's not a runner, she's a Native American woman, she's from Hopi. And um I don't know, she just was like, you know, I'm not a runner, but I know what's happening here, and like I hope that you understand that like what you're doing is is so much bigger than you think it is. Oh, and like what you're doing, yeah, it's like what you're doing for women and what you're doing for everyone right now is just like beyond your comprehension. Um, and she and I'm weeping. I'm literally gonna cry right now. Uh I'm weeping, and the camera person's weeping. We're all just crying. You're like, and this is exactly what I needed to hear in order to like push through this. It was amazing. And so, and I'm like holding on to her shoulder and she's holding on to mine, and we have this like beautiful moment. I was sick, and so then she um she's holding something and she reaches out to me, and it's cornmeal, and that's sacred and hope hopi culture. It's it represents strength and like unity and harmony. Yeah, and she gives it to me and she's like, you know, this is yours. Like, you know, you do with it what you will, but like it's my job to give this to you, and like I've done that now. Wow. And so I'm just holding cornmeal. I'm like, well, all right. And so I put it in my pockets, and then I have some residue on my palms, and I like rub it on my thighs, and I'm like, I'm about to demolish this hill. Yes, like I fuck yeah, and it was weird because I felt and I don't know if it was just like what I don't know what it was, but I felt stronger. Energy from it. Yeah, yeah, and so and I dropped my camera follow.

SPEAKER_03 18:50

And I don't think you even need to explain or find an explanation for it. I think it's like one of those things where you're like, I I think it's better that it's just like magic.

SPEAKER_01 18:58

It was magic, you know, like it was magic, pure magic. It was magic, and so everything needs to be explained, you know? Yeah, and so I PR'd the climb. Whoa. Yep. I've never run that climb faster, including in training. And I was at mile 230. I PR'd it by like six or seven minutes. What the? So I was over a minute faster per mile on that climb. And I got, yeah. Shout out to cornmeal, shout out to cornmeal. Oh my god, yeah, shout out to the mystery hopi lady. Um, but yeah, and so I got to the so I didn't get to the peak because I thought the peak was gonna be chaotic and I wanted to have like a moment because I have this cornmeal in my pocket and I can do what I want with it. So like, all right. Um, and so I there's this section on single track um where you go like up a fall summit and then up another fall summit. And historically I've always died on those sections, and so I got to the second fall summit, and I like stood on the edge and like had I like reached in and just like yeah, like yucked the cornmeal, I eated the cornmeal because it the way I was thinking was like, all right, well, I'm done with this. It it served me. It served me. And I knew Killian, the second place male, I knew he was behind me. Oh wow, and I and I knew that he was having a hard time, and I and so I was just like, take it, yeah. Wow. And then finish the race, and it was the best. And I was talking to a lot of there's a big native population in that area, and they're very into the race. Yeah, a lot of them, and so um I was I talked to everybody and I was like, who is this woman? And nobody knows. Still, you haven't figured out and I don't think I'm supposed to. Oh yeah, I don't think so either. But um, but I was really flattered.

SPEAKER_03 20:30

That was a I think that was a guardian angel.

SPEAKER_01 20:32

Something I don't know, I haven't figured it out yet, but it was it was that was real, and I found it on the live stream too. I found where the camera person cuts away and you can see her. So I know that it was real. What the I know that it was real, and I had cornmeal residue in my pockets, so like I know that it was like I'm not actually insane, yeah. But it was, I mean, it was one of those moments where like I remember running up that climb and it not even feeling like it was me that was doing it. It was like an out-of-body experience, big time. I mean, the second I I stopped running talking to that woman, it felt like an out-of-body experience for sure. And then until I finished the race, it was just like, this isn't me. I'm just like floating.

SPEAKER_03 21:12

Yeah, you're like blast off. Yeah, it was. Did Killian notice a difference in his climb?

SPEAKER_01 21:18

I should, I should ask him.

SPEAKER_03 21:19

I should be like, how is that climb? Yeah, I don't know.

SPEAKER_01 21:23

I don't know. Around 11:36, did you feel anything? You're welcome, by the way. Yeah, exactly. You got second because of that cornmeal that I threw. Um but yeah, it was but that by far, I think, is is going to be something that sticks with me forever.

SPEAKER_03 21:36

Dude, that's gonna be something you tell your grandkids about one day if you have kids, you know? It's just like that's an insane story. It's an insane story. You have to write a book, honestly.

SPEAKER_01 21:45

Are you gonna put a book, Kim? Everybody wants me to. I'm sure everyone wants to. Yeah. So and I write for um Ultra Running magazine, which is Oh, so you like writing. I love writing. So then that would be such a fun, like, passion project for you. My issue is I don't know what the story is yet because. I feel like I'm in the middle of it. And I don't want to start writing. I don't want to rush. Yeah. I don't want to start writing a book if I'm still figuring out the ending. Yeah. So even but eventually. And I think a lot of it, because honestly, I feel like my story of Coca Donna is such a funny one. Yeah. Because after every single year, like 2024, I had to literally make GoFundMe in order to afford going to the race. Rachel. And then I won it. And that was insane. Whoa. Because like all I go funded. And so it was our win. Yeah. You know? You had the whole community behind you. We all invested in you. Exactly. It was in it. It like literally invested. It was great. And so, and then in 2025, I was racing against Courtney DeWalter, who is arguably the most incredible ultra runner in the entire world. Wow. Like she is the greatest. She's Michael Jordan. She's the go. Right. And so, you know, and I'm nobody. And I'm I'm racing against her, racing with her, or however you want to put it. Yeah. And so nobody thought I was gonna do anything. And then she wound up not having the day that she wanted, and she had to drop out at mile 100. Nobody told me. And so I just keep, I'm like, man, she must be having a great day. I'm I'm having a great day, and I still haven't passed her. Yeah. And then come to find out 100 at mile 150, I found out she had dropped. And at that point, I'm just like, well, I'm already going this fast. Might as well keep going. So I might as well keep going. And I wound up PRing my previous time by 10 hours. Oh my god, Richard. And I was like, well, this is it. This is the peak. Like I can never, and I and I was done with the race. Oh, I was like, I'm not coming back. Oh, you were like, I was done. This was the best I'm ever gonna do. I was done. I got the course record for the women. Like, I'm good. I'm out. I got fourth overall. I mean, like, that's pretty solid. Pretty solid. And then, you know, I'm I'm done with the race. I'm I'm not doing it again. My crew chief, his name is Jake Vale, he wanted to do it. And I was like, great, you should do it. I'll crew you. We'll, we'll, you know, I'm ready to crew. Yeah. And then the race org was like, all right, well, we have to, you have to do it again. I was like, I don't really want to do it again. Like, thank you for the thing, but I'm not doing it again. Yeah. And they were like, no, no, no, like you don't understand. You have to do it again. And so I talked to Jake, and he was very gracious and and dropped out because I can't do this race without certain people, and he's one of them. He's your team. He's my guy. Yeah. And so um That's your right-hand guy. Yeah. And so I signed up, and then this happened, and it was just like, okay, like now I'm done. Now I'm done. I'm not, I like I don't need to come, I do not need to come back. Like my story with this race, I I'm gonna do it one more time eventually. I was gonna say one. Special when you want to do it again. Eventually, because when you do it four times, that's a thousand miles, and you get a special buckle. Oh girl, go for the buckle. I'll do it, but I'm gonna I think yourself a second. Yeah. 27, 28, maybe. Okay. Um, but and when I do it, I think I want to try to do it with a lot less support. So I've had full crew and full pacing. Yeah. But I'm gonna maybe try to either do it. Just make it more challenging. Yeah, like no, why not? Like no pacers, maybe, or no crew, you know, something, something. I'm gonna I'll do it differently because I also am not interested in competing with my ghost.

SPEAKER_03 25:00

Yeah, really.

SPEAKER_01 25:02

Um, and I think that would make it more personally fulfilling for me, is if I make it a different challenge. Like a different kind of heart. Yeah, like I've already won I've how am I gonna top I say I say that every year and I have so far, but like I don't want to set myself up to be disappointed even if I do something awesome. Yeah. Um, if I don't like win outright and set enough, like that's I'm fully aware that this was a wild situation. Yes. So I don't want to try to reinvent the wheel. I just want to this race is really good at giving you the experience that you don't expect. Yes. Um so I'm just here for whatever I get.

SPEAKER_03 25:40

I love that. Like you have this saying, or I guess a lot of ultra runners have this saying where if you do a hundred miler, something could go wrong, but you could go you could have a perfect race and nothing could go wrong. Yeah. But with 200 plus, everything goes wrong and it goes wrong multiple times. Yep. So what went wrong for you?

SPEAKER_01 25:57

Um you know, not much. Uh I've been really lucky with a lot of races, and I don't often have not cocking on wood, don't often have things go wrong. Um this year I did have a couple funny cruise situations where like my headlamp wasn't charged, and I had to like use my tiny backup Bendy headlamp in night two, and it was just like dang it. But it's it's not even like that.

SPEAKER_03 26:25

It was just- You can only see like a foot in front of you, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 26:27

But and I'm tired, and like having this dim light is just like cramp. Um I will just fall asleep standing up. I did once, but um, but yeah, like those kind of goofy situations. Um but as far as like nothing really went wrong. There was one, yeah, there was one section where I um because I have a professional uh sports scientist on my crew this year. My name is Emily Errol, shout out. Um, and she basically just like gives me what I'm supposed to eat, and it's my job to eat it, eat it before the next section before I see her again. Okay. And there was uh it was in Sedona or going into Sedono and I was getting paced by my friend Addy, and I just like I was just tired of eating and I was tired of drinking stuff, and like I just didn't want to, and so I didn't, and I wound up bonking somewhat hard. And Addie the entire time is is brilliantly suggesting and not demanding that I do things, which means I didn't do them. Yes, and so um, so I got into this really low place, and Addy actually said something incredibly profound, and it was well, when you're doing something that because I'm complaining about how hard it is and I'm tired and blah blah blah. Yeah, and she's like, Well, when you're doing something that nobody's done before, it's not going to be easy. And I was like, Fair enough. That's a good point. And so we made a plan because my feet were hurting and my I was getting sleepy and I was bonking, and so we made a plan does, you know, after a hundred miles, right? 150. 150 miles. And I still had a hundred to go, yeah. And I'm just like, bah! And so, um, but yeah, we made a plan to like change my shoes, um, take some. I I only use caffeine through Coke, basically, like Coca-Cola. I'm glad you said Coca-Cola. I only had 230, yeah. I only had 230 milligrams, I think, for the whole race. Whoa. Which is like, yeah, not good.

SPEAKER_03 28:11

Have you drank Coca-Cola?

SPEAKER_01 28:12

Hell yeah, dog. Hell yeah. Yeah, I love that. Shotgun. Um, yeah, and so um I love that. Made some made a made a caffeine strategy. Okay. Um, you're gonna have to have your morning coffee or yeah, morning. Yeah, you know, post made it on the way? Yeah, sure. Some people do that. Um, but yeah, and so we made a we made a plan, and so all I had to do then was just focus on getting to the aid station, implementing my plan, and hoping for the best. No, but that was my only low spot. Wow. Was right before Sedona.

SPEAKER_03 28:42

So that's a trip. Yeah. So maybe you can't say that anymore. That can't be your saying, because you kind of almost had a perfect race at 250.

SPEAKER_01 28:50

The only year I really had a hard oops was the first year doing Coca-Dona Coca-Dona, where I almost called it Coca-Cola. Um the first year at Coca-Dona. Maybe Coca-Cola will sponsor it next year. And then you'll have to run it. The Coca-Cola, Coca-Dona. I say that five times fast. Um, but the only or I I was not good in nutrition yet. So I was I was underfueling hideously. Oh, jeez. And then bonked at the halfway point, had to take three hours off course and like sleep in the slip car, and then kind of corrected too hard and got hyper neutremic. So I had too much sodium. Oh. And I spent 10 hours barfing. Oh my god. And it was actually, I mean, it's funny because my head space was so much better. I was like, oh yeah, I'm gonna finish. This just kind of sucks. And I'm just like vomiting on the side of the trail. Yeah, and but I'm like, I'm gonna finish. Yeah. I was getting passed by everybody. No, no, no, I'm gonna finish. As you're running, yeah. Well, I'm like curled up on the ground sometimes, just like barfing position. And but I'm like, no, I'm gonna finish just fine. You're like, where's that footage? Somewhere, I'm sure.

SPEAKER_03 29:57

The character arc is crazy.

SPEAKER_01 29:58

Yeah, the growth is crazy. Yes. Um, so that really was the turning point. Well, it was really the only Coca-Dona in which something very obviously went wrong and it was just fuel related.

SPEAKER_03 30:11

Yeah. Um you realize that you can control that and you can prepare better for the next time.

SPEAKER_01 30:15

Yeah. So honestly, I think 2025, I get I told you I PR'd by like almost 10 hours. I think all of it was just because I feel better. Wow. Everyone listening, yeah. Yeah, feel your body, ladies, listen up. Yeah, feel better. And you'll say a zempic and eat your damn food. Seriously. Oh my god. So that was fun. And so, yeah, going into this year, I wanted one of my goals was to try to get close to 60 hours. Okay. For a woman. I didn't care if it was me, but I thought there were a lot of really strong women in this race. And so I thought that if it could happen, it would be this year. Yeah. Um, so yeah, I wanted, I wanted close to 60 hours, I wanted one woman in the top three, and I wanted three women in the top 10. So those were my goals for the race.

SPEAKER_03 30:57

Wait, you have goals for everybody. Yeah. That's really good. That's how this works.

SPEAKER_01 31:02

That's how it works. It takes really cool. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 31:04

And so I But in a sport like ultra running, it's not a team sport, it's an individual sport. You can choose to make it.

SPEAKER_01 31:11

You can choose to make it a team sport. And that's what I choose. I love that. Yeah. And so, um, so yeah, so I I'm sitting here and I'm doing my dumb spreadsheets, which we're a waste of time, as it turns out. And I'm I'm sitting here Us trying to be organized when we're just type B. Not accept it. Yeah. But I'm sitting here and I'm using my spreadsheet from last year. Okay. Where I did 6T3 X, whatever. Yeah. And I'm slashing stuff. I'm just like, all right, well, I did this section in 14 minute pace. I'm gonna put 11. Yeah. And I did, I, you know, I was at this aid station for 35 minutes, and I'm gonna do three. Oh shit. And I'm just sitting here and I'm just cutting everything down to like nothing.

SPEAKER_03 31:48

And my and you're trying to wrap your head around of like how the hell am I even gonna do this?

SPEAKER_01 31:52

I have no idea. Yeah. And my time is 6130. And I'm like, I can't do it. You're like, I can't shave any more down. Yeah, I don't know where it's gonna come from. And so I'm emailing my crew and my pacers, and I'm like, well, you know, my goal is to try to get somebody close to 60 hours, and like this is close, but it's not close, you know, it's still an hour, it's 90 minutes more. Yeah, and I I think I said You're like not good enough. Yeah, and I think I said, you know, if we do it, it's because of race day magic. No, literally, and so it was because of the cornmeal for sure. Um, cornmeal shaved off four hours. Yeah, cornmeal shaved off for my projected time, six and a half hours. Six and a half hours. Is that math? Five and a half, five and a half hours. I don't do math. Um that's what we have phones for. Yeah, but yeah, and so all but all of my goals happened. I was stoked. That is absolutely absurd. Yeah, because obviously I was sub-60 and one. And you won. And then what are all the other women? Yeah, I was women. And then one was either 11th or 12th. So we had four or five in the top in the top 15. I think we had six in the top 20. So we crushed it.

SPEAKER_03 32:56

I was gonna ask you, do you think women are better at ultra running than men? I think we're different. Okay.

SPEAKER_01 33:02

Because I feel like you biohacked. I did something.

SPEAKER_03 33:05

I was thinking about it and I'm like, you said that a woman holds the record for the APT. Is that what it is? Oh, the uh the Appalachian Trail. Yeah. And I'm like, I wonder if we if we like burn differently. I think we do do that, and we just haven't been encouraged enough to tap into it.

SPEAKER_01 33:23

Well, I think we've only been allowed to run for what less than a hundred years. So I I I don't know. So we're coming.

SPEAKER_03 33:31

Women might start dominating.

SPEAKER_01 33:32

We're coming. I think for endurance sports, I mean, there is something about the types of fuel that women are more efficient at burning. Yeah. Like I think. We absorb nutrition differently. No, I'm a doctor, but I don't know any of this stuff. But um, but we are we I yeah, we I think into what I've what I've noticed from the finish lines is that women tend to finish better. Like we tend to just look not as dead. Yeah. And it's funny because Killian was a- more conserved energy or something. We just we just are more neutral. Okay. The whole time. We're not we're not starting out too. Exactly. Like, we're not really starting out too hard. We're not really blowing up a ton. Yeah. Like we're just kind of we just kind of steady. Steady. Steady eddy. Steady. And um how did Killian look? I mean, he was he had a tough day. He looked like he ran 250 miles. You look like you ran three. I know. Yeah. And I mean, but really all of the women who came in, I I was there for the top three, and then I watched throughout the race like others come in, and it's just like we all just kind of look good. Period. Like I love that. You know, we look I mean, there are men who look good too, but most everybody looks worked, but I I guess when we're looking at the top three, yeah, we're looking at the podium folks, me, Courtney, and Meg just all kind of looked fine.

SPEAKER_03 34:50

That's so insane. Yeah. 19 minutes of sleep and 56 hours of running later. Yep. And still look fine.

unknown 34:58

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 34:58

I felt I felt fine. Shout out the skincare.

SPEAKER_01 35:02

She has like little eye patches while she's running. I know, seriously. No, I'm doing this for the cameras. Um, but yeah, it was, I mean, yeah, it was it was I felt okay. You know, I was really excited to be done. Yeah, you know.

SPEAKER_03 35:13

Well, I am really excited to see what the future of ultra running is gonna look like. Me too. Because I do think you yeah, you made history, but I think you've again like created a ripple effect that's gonna inspire so many freaking women to try. I hope so. And just be curious. Yeah. And like, oh, like maybe maybe a marathon's not my cap. You know, like what what what's wrong with asking that question, you know, of just like let's get curious with it. Let's see how far I can go. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 35:37

And I I I don't know. I I do think that women just tend to uh uh start and finish races with less of a negative split. Oh so we we just don't slow down quite as much, and that's that is something that science has shown us. Yeah, I am just an example of like, no, the science is is right. Yeah, and I think that's something that's cool because I I don't necessarily think we've had that happen yet. It's like, yeah, theoretically, yeah women are better. And now I'm just like, yes, we are. We are yes, we are. So that's the part of the story that I think is really cool is it's like, oh, I just proved some science. Like everybody wants to prove science.

SPEAKER_03 36:19

So she did it for the girls, everyone. She did it for the girls. I am obsessed with that. Oh, I freaking love you, dude. You're so cool. I can't get over it. Thanks. Uh, what would you say surprised you the most about the race versus the past two that you've done?

SPEAKER_01 36:33

Oh, the amount of support at the end.

SPEAKER_02 36:35

Oh.

SPEAKER_01 36:35

Which I think is, I mean, you know, obviously historical, you know, whatever. But if the entire Zidia Flag staff was out there, um, which was really cool. And in year, so 24 to 25. In 2024, I finished at like six in the morning. So I'm cruising through town at like 4 a.m. I'm just like, nobody's there. Which is family's there with like a cup of coffee. My family wasn't even there. We didn't even go. No, I didn't go. Um, and so yeah, it was basically my crew and the race director at the finish line, and they were like, good job. Um go well. Yeah, it was I mean, I didn't I was so the unsung heroes, clearly. Yeah, I was so dead, I didn't even care. Yeah, I was like, this is exactly the finish I deserved. It's just nobody needs to see this. Um, and so 24 to 25, there was a lot more people because I had done so well, and I was about to break the course record for the women. So people were rallying up. So they were in I finished it, I think it was like 8 p.m. So it's like prime, yeah, you know, people had dinner and then they can pop one over. Yeah. And like I noticed even going through towns, there was more like rah-rah. And I think a lot of it was because Courtney was in the race and everybody wants to see Courtney. Yes. And then when Courtney drops out, it's not like they're just gonna go home. Like now they're just gonna stay and watch whoever is going to win. Yeah. Especially because I was so close to her. So it's not like, yeah, I can stick around for a few hours. Yeah, exactly. She's running, I'm not. Like, I'll hang out. Yeah. And so there was a lot of there was a lot more support in in 2025. And then this year, it was like, I mean, the hospital staff came out and like were standing in front of the there were like 40 hospital staff members just out there, like in case anyone drops. I mean, yeah. Um, but yeah, it was people on site. Yeah. Um, and so that was it was yeah, the amount of support was the thing that was the most surprising in my opinion.

SPEAKER_03 38:18

And then I'm sure when you got on your phone, you're like, whoa. Likes crash. Yes.

SPEAKER_04 38:23

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 38:23

Because like, I mean, I my floor team went viral when I was in college, and like the amount of just like people constantly bombarding your phone and your you know, social media, and yeah, it's non-stop. Like, yeah, you can't even escape it. It's pretty nuts, yeah. And then there's me and her DMs. Okay, it's fine.

SPEAKER_01 38:41

Hi, yes, I'd be like, You wake up to the beach? Yes, I would. Um, yeah, that was it was yeah, it's probably so different. It was, and I mean, another thing that was really surprising was right when I finished, um, they wanted to do an interview, which is insane. But whatever.

SPEAKER_03 38:57

Girl, I don't want to talk to anybody.

SPEAKER_01 38:58

Yeah. Well, also, what am I gonna say? Like, I just have been non-verbal for 20 miles, basically. So um I didn't even think about it. Do you want some cornmeal? Um and so they wanted cornmeal, they wanted to interview me. Okay. And I have no idea how that went, but I guess it could be. But it was I think it was okay. Okay. Um, and then after I was done, just like everybody wanted my autograph. Oh, that's really cute. And I'm just like signing babies' foreheads and t-shirts, and just like I've just fin I haven't even really sat down yet. Yeah, you can even like it. And I was at the finish line um at least until Killian arrived. So for 90 minutes, I was just like on your feet signing autographs, which is fine because I was just like You were still on a high. Oh, for sure. Your adrenaline was still gonna be. I think it was maybe like 30 minutes after Killian finished. Um I was like, I have to go. Yeah, like I need to shower. Yeah, I need to sit and lie down, and I need to eat. Actually, no, Jamil's mom gave me a vegetarian hamburger, which saved me because otherwise I was gonna be. Are we vegetarian? Yep, yeah. Um, so we can do it. Um we can do it. So everybody should be veggie girls. Yeah, there's good protein sources that aren't just a cow.

SPEAKER_03 40:18

That's impressive. That's actually even more impressive to me.

SPEAKER_01 40:21

Yeah. Um, but yeah, and so uh, yeah, that was the fit all of the finish was crazy. Just like I'm signing autographs right now. That's wild.

SPEAKER_03 40:30

I know you're humble. All I did was run. What am I getting? I was like, wait, all I did was run, just kept going. I know. But how did you even get into it? Uh running? Yeah, how did you even get into ultra running?

SPEAKER_01 40:40

Um so the full story, I guess, is that when I was a junior in I I grew up fat, Southeast, you know, don't have a healthy relationship with food, don't have a healthy relationship with sports. Yeah. And so um, I was overweight as a kid. I had terrible self-confidence. And so my junior year, I guess my junior summer, so I'm going into my senior year. Okay. Um, I had a bunch of shit hit the fan in my personal life, and so I developed a really bad eating disorder. It was like your way of coping. Yep. And so, and one way to keep out of the house, because there was a lot of stuff going on with my family too, I would just go to the gym and I would just run for hours, and I loved it. And so, um, so what started as a really unhealthy coping mechanism, I realized, and this was before I physically changed at all. So, like I still looked exactly the same, but I would finish running and I was like, God damn it. I love like I feel so much better than I did when I started.

SPEAKER_03 41:36

Wow.

SPEAKER_01 41:37

And eventually, obviously, I I went downhill very quickly because when you run and you don't fuel, then bad things happen. Yeah, and so um, you know, I got really sick. I had to go to rehab twice. I had to stop doing everything, basically. You went to rehab for your eating disorder. Twice. Yeah, because the first time you fake it, and the second time you're like, shit.

SPEAKER_02 41:55

So um, so um I should not be laughing, but you're so fucking funny, dude. Um we can laugh at it now. We can because we've healed it. It's fine, it's fine.

SPEAKER_01 42:03

No, we we've healed. Oh, babe. I'm so sorry. It's cool. That was it was like 15 years ago. So it's almost I look back now and I'm like, how did I do any of that?

SPEAKER_03 42:10

No, I'm not sure. Now I don't understand. No, I've I've I mean, I've I don't know if you've listened to the podcast at all, but we've had a few people come on. I mean, any extreme athlete has gone through some pretty fucked up stuff with like eating disorders and body dysmorphia. Yeah. And like I had an eating disorder in college, and like thank God, I mean, I snapped out of it. Thank God faster than I I would have broken bones, probably with gymnastics the high impact. It's like, yeah, how did I not?

SPEAKER_01 42:36

Yeah, but I mean, yeah, how the hell did we like still do what we did without eating? I don't know. It's crazy, yeah. It is wild, but um, but yeah, and so I remember I went I went to rehab, I got out. Wow, um, and then I but the entire time, especially the second time, because the first time I was I seriously I was faking it for sure. And so I was like, well, whatever, I'm just gonna get right back into doing everything I was doing, and it's gonna be fine. And then I remember I was actually running laps around my neighborhood like a psychopath, and I was like, this isn't even fun because I don't feel good anymore.

SPEAKER_03 43:07

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 43:08

And like that was kind of when I realized, all right, I'm not, I need to like do this right. Right. And I want to get back to doing this thing that I know that I love and I know I can use for a better purpose than I am right now. Yeah. And so you're like protecting your love for your sport. Yeah. And so um did rehab the second time, took way longer. Like how long? Like the first time I was in, I think for three months, and then the second time it was like nine. But I did I did inpatient, I did outpatient, I did the partial program, and then I did outpatient on my own. Rachel. I was like doing it, girl, you're doing it, we're doing it, and um yeah, and so I that's brutal. Yeah, it was brutal. We have to undo a lot of coping skills, but and learn how to talk about our feelings or whatever, but um, but yeah, and so I um it took me probably, I mean, I was. I was healthy, but I still was like not great.

SPEAKER_03 44:04

And um it's already hard to maintain a healthy body fat level when you are running as much as you are, and like, and I definitely was still not eating enough.

SPEAKER_01 44:12

Yeah. Um, but eventually I I would say it took about four years of like gradually kind of addressing those just being super mindful of it. Yeah, and like just being very real with myself of like, okay, let's do it. You can't do this. Right. You can't keep doing this for as long as you want to if you're not doing it correctly. Yeah. And so I got, yeah, it took me probably, I would say four years after rehab. So probably 2014 is when I finally was like, okay, I know how to do this now. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 44:42

Um, and there's like less emotional attachments.

SPEAKER_01 44:45

And there's and there was so much less of an emphasis on what I looked like. All I cared about was how am I performing? Okay. And I think that was a really big mind shift change of like no one actually cares how I look. Yeah. If I'm I can stand at the top of this podium and no one's gonna care how how I look, which is funny because yes, they always do. But I don't. I don't care. I don't care. I don't care. Um and so, and then you know, I think I was mostly then I was mostly more interested in fueling outside of my events. I felt very confident about I was feeling healthily outside of my events. Okay. When I was doing them, I still didn't know what I was doing. Yeah. So 2024 is Coca-Dona, I didn't know what I was doing still, and that was a turning point again of like, wait a second. I'm still not, I'm limiting my own potential by not doing the right thing. Yes. And that's when I got more professional help from Precision, who sponsors me now. Yay. Um, too. And that has been another like unlock. Um, is like, oh, if I eat whatever they tell me to, and I don't back sass them and I just do it, then I'm gonna do even better. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 45:54

Um, and I mean you get it as a physical therapist when you say, hey, do these exercises and then they come back and they can't do shit, and then you're like, exercises, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 46:01

Yeah, exactly. Um, but I remember one thing recently that happened that made me really proud was um I did a race in March in Italy, and Precision sponsored a couple athletes to do it, and they always do pa not panels, but like studies on us, yeah, which is great. Um, and they did how many grams of carbs we ate per hour. Whoa. And ordinarily, you know, Rachel Circa 2010 would have been all over that, but for a terrible reason.

SPEAKER_02 46:29

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 46:30

And so this time, I remember um me and another woman are like roughly the same size and like skill level. And I remember she did 80, the guy did 120, and I did 60. And my first thought was like, how do I get that number higher? Yeah, I need that number to be higher because if I I got third in the race, I'm like, well, if I had done 80 like that other girl, like maybe I would have done better. Yeah. Um, and then my second thought was like, holy shit, have I come a long way. If like my first thought is like, how do I improve this number? Where ordinarily, I mean, and suddenly you're like it trying to improve this the number on a scale, or just like my number was smallest. Like that's like your competitive better as skinny. Right. Or something stupid, just like, you know, whatever bullshit, unhealthy thing. But I I remember just thinking, like, cool, like that's what I'm supposed to, like, I'm supposed to be thinking about like this in terms of performance, and I am now. Yeah. And like that is good. That is your edge. Yeah, because I I really I remember when I was in rehab, one of the things, for better or for worse, that they would always tell us is like this is something that sticks with you forever. And I remember being like, fuck, I don't want this to stick with me forever. Yeah. And like it has, in a sense, that it's my story, but it has not in the sense that it affects me.

SPEAKER_03 47:43

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 47:43

Um, so that's amazing.

SPEAKER_03 47:45

And especially because I I was really curious about your your experience with your eating disorder, obviously, from like a selfish side of things, where I'm like, how did you figure that out where you can like do an extreme sport?

SPEAKER_01 47:57

Years of somehow being okay without doing the right things.

SPEAKER_03 48:01

Yes, because like it's yeah, I'm the type of person where if I'm all in on something, well, I will never half-ass on anything. So I'm always all in on something. Full ass. Always, full ass, double cheeked up every time. Yeah. And I think what's hard is like you you take everything to an extreme. Yep. And so I will take my eating to an extreme. And it's like, because you're like, oh, I can control everything. And you just like get like in this weird control frenzy, and you just try to limit everything to make it the best possible outcome. And it's like, well, what if we fucking didn't do that? Yeah. What if we actually just ate the way that we were supposed to, but then trained at the high level? Yep. So I really admire you for being able to figure out how to be extreme while not being extreme.

SPEAKER_01 48:43

Yeah. I think one thing that's been the most helpful for me is getting to a point where I'm genuinely happy with my life and with myself. And that is something that I had to make a conscious decision to do.

SPEAKER_03 48:54

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 48:54

Because you can always find things that you're unhappy about. Yeah. Um, but I just choose to ignore those things unless they're affecting my life or something. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Whatever. Um, but yeah, and then and then just if I notice that I I start to feel bad and that I want to start controlling something, just being like, okay, well, we're not gonna do that. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 49:12

Or like, where is this coming from?

SPEAKER_01 49:14

And if you do that enough times, if you reject that enough times, then it's it doesn't pop up anywhere.

SPEAKER_03 49:21

It doesn't serve you as much. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 49:22

So it's like, all right, well, I just won't do that. Easy. I guess we'll just scrap that from our memory. Yeah, we'll just talk about our feelings instead.

SPEAKER_03 49:29

But talking about your feelings is really helpful. It is good. Yeah. Very much uh underrated skill. Yes. It takes time though. Yes, it does. Well, I'm really impressed with you because that's yeah, it's not an easy thing to do, especially when you're alone with your thoughts all the time. For 250 miles. Yeah. How would you do it? And I don't listen to music either.

SPEAKER_01 49:46

I'm just pure psychiatrist. I was gonna ask pure psychopath. Yeah, yeah. I just I and for the most part you broadged the whole race. The whole thing. But I had pacers and stuff, so we talked sometimes. We talked a good bit. Um what do you think about?

SPEAKER_03 50:01

I don't know. I mean, you know. Like, I would probably like, I don't know, maybe like mentally play movies in my head or something. Like I haven't seen enough movies to do that. That's fine. Um or like think about like every scenario, every social interaction I've ever had.

SPEAKER_01 50:15

Like, I would just think everything. Wait, I came up with a really good comeback back in 2019. I'm gonna text them and let them know. I know. Um, I don't know what I really think about. I think I mostly just it's very meditative for me running for long distances. You find your Zen. I just didn't kind of like, uh-huh, this is what I'm doing right now. And I'm gonna do this. And then, you know, I would pick up pacers and we would I would ask them how their day was going, and we would chat about my day, and it was just kind of like, all right.

SPEAKER_03 50:42

That's the most impressive thing I've ever heard.

unknown 50:45

Yeah, I guess.

SPEAKER_03 50:46

Um, and then the 250 miles, doing it without music or a podcast or a show or anything.

SPEAKER_01 50:52

Well, my pacers are my podcasts, we just chat.

SPEAKER_03 50:55

That's true. Um, and so I think the last thing I want to do though while I'm running is yeah, chatting.

SPEAKER_01 50:59

Yeah, it's fun, you know, especially when you're in such a beautiful area. Like I remember the first pacer I picked up. That picks you out of your head a little bit. My first pacer was a guy named Steven that I love, and I've run with him for thousands of miles over the course of my life. And like we were at this place called Watson Lake, and it was sunset, and it was just like, oh my god, and there were gnats everywhere. And so we were just like with these gnats, and like this, it was just really despite the gnats, it was very beautiful. And we were talking about that, and he was really he's very in touch with his emotions too, and not afraid to be vulnerable. And so we're just sitting here and we're talking about how grateful we are that each of us are here. And I was telling him about my why not you that I'd come up with in the last section of like, well, why can't I win? I'm winning right now, and like somebody has to, so like let's choose. Um, and he was saying that that resonates with him as well, and so it was great. So that was, I mean, that's the kind of thing, but that I mean, and that multiply for the next hundred and fifty miles, like that was what I was getting. Because I was just I was just having an experience with people that I love on a course that I love.

SPEAKER_03 52:01

How much of your race do you think was like I guess let's break into like a percentage was training, mentality, and then just pure fucking magic?

SPEAKER_01 52:12

It's there's an expression that is um ultras are 80% training and or 80% physical and 80% mental. So that's my answer. I love that because it is true. I mean, it just it yeah, they always ask more from you than you think you have. Yeah. And so and then it was a hundred percent magic.

SPEAKER_03 52:32

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 52:33

I don't even sounded magical. Yeah, it was it was insane. But I do, you know, I haven't really changed my training much over the years. Like my first Coca-Dona that I was training for to this one, like not that different in training, really. So I think a lot of it has probably just the improvements in time, because I've now improved my time. I did 73 hours first.

SPEAKER_03 52:55

So how did you save down your time if you haven't changed your training? I don't know.

SPEAKER_01 52:59

I think it's probably experience, I think it's probably nutrition. I think it's uh better sleep management strategies, aka I don't. Um and then um Coca-Cola. Yeah, Coca-Cola, yes. Um and then I don't know. That's really impressive. Mostly, I guess, just like I think attitude. Probably, yeah, I mean, definitely attitude too. Learning learning how in control of my attitude I am has been a game changer.

SPEAKER_03 53:27

And that's so empowering because you know that if you do slip into a dark space, I can get myself out of it. You can bring yourself back out. What does the dark place look like? If you don't mind me asking.

SPEAKER_01 53:38

Yeah, I mean, um, when I was going into Sedona with Addy, um, my low spot, I remember it was hot and I was bonking, and so that just immediately becomes a dark place. And I remember, you know, I have a hundred miles, I'm in the lead, and like Killian, I'm sure, is right behind me. And like, what happens if he passes me? And I can't respond, like, I can't respond right now. Like, and I I don't want to think about what's gonna happen if he does pass me because I'm not feeling crappy. You're dope. And I just am like crappy. Exactly. Like the internet's gonna have a field day because this woman got passed by a dude, just like they all thought. And like that kind of shit started. Spiraling. I started I I mini spiral. Mini spiral. Because like it was like, you know, the spiral goes like this. I was like, and then I kind of was like, okay, like we do not need to do this right now. We do not need a waste of energy. Yeah. Because that's how I look at it is like negative thoughts are a waste of energy because I am I have no idea how this is going to go in in life in general. And if I only choose to, like, there is a 50% chance that it could all go to shit. Yeah. There's also a 50% chance that we could absolutely nail it. Yeah. So why don't we think about this part? Yeah. Like, let's just look at the positive part instead. Yeah. So Stephanie Case is our ultra runner from Canada, I think. And and last year, one of her big mantras, well, what if it all goes right? Yes. Instead of thinking about I love like it's super easy to think about the terrible. Yeah. Like I can I can think of 97 different ways in which Killin's gonna pass me and I'm gonna fall off a cliff.

SPEAKER_03 55:04

But what about all the 97 ways that it goes right? Exactly. What if I win? Oh, I love it. That, how much more energized do you feel when you think that way?

SPEAKER_01 55:11

So much better. Yeah, so much better. And so yeah, so that's kind of, and then of course I already talked, like adding I made a plan to deal with my stuff, and like I just had to, I until I got to that aid station, I just had to focus on like, all right, we could get to the aid station and it could all work. So let's focus on that. Yeah, let's focus on getting to the aid station, implementing our plan, leaving, and feeling better. I love that. So, but yeah, the neck the negative space is somewhere I don't like to live. Yeah. It's fine if it gets physically hard because that is to be expected. But like when my mental space gets negative, it's like, okay, we do not need to stay here. It is not productive. Yeah, it is not a productive way to spend our time.

SPEAKER_03 55:53

I love, I love that you have such a solid grasp on your control of your attitude. Because I think a lot of times, especially in this day and age, like it's so quick and easy to slip into this victim mentality of like why I mean, this is hard, and I'm tired. And it's like, yeah, I know I chose this. Yeah, like girl, we we picked the hard thing on purpose. Yeah, this was strategic. Yeah, we don't run to make our lives easier, that's for sure.

SPEAKER_01 56:19

So why do you run? Um, I run because my life is too easy. And so if I want to practice being the kind of person that I want to be when times are tough, like I have to practice that. If I don't practice it, it's an acquired skill. Right. Um, and I would hate to have a life's because you know, again, I'm come on, I'm like a middle class white lady. Like my life's pretty good. Yeah, all things considered. And like if I have a hardship come in my life, I I want to have the skills so that I'm not a complete douchebag to everybody around me when that happens, because it will happen. Yeah, it's just life, it just doesn't happen often enough that I get to practice those skills. And so running for me is a way to practice not being a dirt bag when I feel like ass. Wow. Yep. And so my my friend Steven, who was pacing me, he his answer is always, I run because my life's too easy. And that's something else that I've adopted from him because it is a really good opportunity. And I I totally recognize how there's a word that I'm thinking of, but I can't think of well, like you know, it's a privilege to say that my life's yeah, yeah, yeah. It's a it's a privilege, and I get that. Um, but at the end of the day, I do want to like who I am when my life's hard. And so running for me is the way to practice that.

SPEAKER_03 57:34

That's really cool. That's a really interesting take. I've never heard that before.

SPEAKER_01 57:38

Yeah, I hadn't until Steven said it, and it stuck it. I remember he told me that. You're like, wait, me too. Yeah, I was like, what do you really went from it went from what do you mean to like wait a second? Yeah, you're cooking. I see what you mean. Yeah, you're cooking with that one. But yeah, he probably told me that in like 2017. I just have I've like sat with it over the years, and now it is my answer because I see what he means. Yeah, I see what he means, and it's like you're a genius.

SPEAKER_03 58:01

How often do you see kind of the negative approach to running? I think that there's a lot of people who are doing running from things versus running for things.

SPEAKER_01 58:12

And I've I've done that. You've done both. I've done all of it. I've run because of ego, I've run because I'm I don't want to face my problems. Yeah. Um I think I think there's a lot, and I've also seen people too who are running for social media nowadays. It's like other people. Oh, yeah, running for sponsorships and running. Yeah, yeah. Um, and I just, you know, everybody's allowed to have their own reasons for doing it. I just hope that everybody's happy with their reasons. Because I do think that there's a lot of people who um I don't know, maybe aren't need to need to take a step back and reflect on like what am I actually? Yeah, like why what do I want to put into the world because of this? Because me, I think I'm really grateful, I guess, for the platform to be positive. Absolutely. Like, that's nice.

SPEAKER_02 59:07

I think we're truly like a positive thing.

SPEAKER_03 59:09

Oh my god, I truly believe you were put on this earth to have your voice in your platform. Yeah, which is wild to share with others. Like I truly believe that. And I truly I believe that about myself as well. Where I'm like, no, God put me here to use my voice and to make an impact because there's a lot of negativity out there. Yes. But for us to be able to have a come from a place of gratitude and come from a place of inspiration and just pure joy and love for positive movement, yeah, like how cool is that? Like, we can reframe what sport looks like for women.

SPEAKER_01 59:43

Yeah. And I've never, and I, you know, I started running in like the 2010s, I guess. 20, 2009, 2010.

SPEAKER_03 59:50

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 59:51

And there was a lot of this like no quit ever mentality back then.

SPEAKER_03 59:56

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 59:56

And I just did not I just listened and it did not go well for me. Yeah. And I it's like the grind don't stop. Get up at 5 a.m. and do this and do that.

SPEAKER_03 1:00:09

And I just like doing your own fucking way, dude. Right.

SPEAKER_01 1:00:11

Like, I didn't have There's not one way. Courtney DeWalter came along in 2017 and it was like, oh, you can have fun doing this. And like, if I can what a concept. I know, what a concept. I don't just have to like David Goggins my way through everything that I want to quit. Um, and so and I know that there are people who get something from that mentality of because I also think there It works for some people, it works for some people, couldn't be me. It we all we need different options, yes, and so I like the fact that I get to be another option of like, hey, well, there's not one way to do it.

SPEAKER_03 1:00:42

There's not one way, and people are gonna start running marathons like Rachel.

SPEAKER_01 1:00:46

Yeah, and I've gotten a lot of I still go through all my DMs. I've all I go through I I respond. And there have been a lot of people who recently have said, like, hey, you know, your mantra of why not me got me through this race. Wow. And like I, you know, there was a there was a string a couple weeks ago. I guess there were a lot of races, but a lot of women won races outright, and they were like sending me messages like, yo, I did this because of you. And I was just like, This is the most gangster thing I've ever done. So gangster. Is like, and it's not even just like I'm doing it, like whatever I'm saying is resonating with people enough that like they are doing stuff now, and like that is sick.

SPEAKER_03 1:01:21

No, and then you realize I I should keep opening my mouth and saying more things. Yeah, you know what I mean? But now I just have a microphone. So you're like, now I can talk to millions of people instead of just like five people in my community. Yeah, exactly. No, but that's so sick. You're like the running Yoda. You're so wise. Like, I really love, I love that you have such a solid take on life, and like I love that you also you choose joy because I feel like I had a massive shift in my career. Like, you'd probably definitely don't know, but in gymnastics, I was extremely, extremely hard on myself. Like, I would to the point where I would like go hide in the bathroom before I would compete because I was so nervous to compete. I would hold myself to such an impossible standard. Definitely not eating enough, definitely not feeling feeling right. Like, just had a very shitty approach to my sport. Yeah. And thankfully it never ruined my love for it, but it definitely didn't make the times sweeter.

SPEAKER_00 1:02:16

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 1:02:16

You know, like I look back on my memories and everyone's like, Do you miss competing? I'm like, not really. Like, I yeah, I think I would have gone gray if I kept doing it. And so then I shifted and was able to do gymnastics now, like as my career, because I started flipping for commercials and social media and everything. And I'm doing it because I love it. Yeah. And I've had so many people now, like, just because of my pure love for the sport, try it. And they're like, I do gymnastics now because of you. And I'm like, What? That's so sick. Like, I just love that we have that impact and that we can make that. Well, it's like Alyssa Lou. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Like, same thing. Like, you can leave your sport and come back and do it for the right reasons. And like, look what happened.

SPEAKER_01 1:02:57

Do it for fun metal instead of doing it for whatever dad. And I daddy has shoe run. Yeah. But but yeah, I don't know. Yeah, I do think that there's a lot of again, everybody's allowed to have find inspiration where they want. Yes. I'm not gonna sit here and be the inspiration police, but I just, yeah, I think it's if you have another option of where you can get that inspiration from, I think fun's a great one.

SPEAKER_03 1:03:22

Yes. So that's what and fun little um, I'm sure you already know because you're a doctor, but like science fact is when you smile, it releases serotonin in your brain. So, like, I learned that from a um hypnotherapist back when I was competing, and he was like, smile before all your tumbling passes and you'll feel better physically. Yeah. And so now if you look back on any of my videos, like I smile before every single tumbling pass. Oh, nice. And like it helped me get extra points too. I don't know. People were just like, oh, she's having fun. Yeah. You know, like it's infectious. And like I think people forget, like, you have control to like just fucking smile and our bodies are complex, but they're also kind of dumb.

SPEAKER_01 1:04:02

Kind of dumb. Like just trick your mind, you're like, I feel so good right now.

SPEAKER_03 1:04:05

And like I gaslight myself all the time. All the time. Even when I'm like so stressed, I'm like, I feel so good right now. Yeah, I feel great. This is fine. Or like whenever I'm scared to do something, I'm like, I did this yesterday, it's fine. Yeah, and it helps every time.

SPEAKER_00 1:04:17

Exactly.

SPEAKER_03 1:04:17

Life hack, any hoozes. Okay, well, I want to get into, I know you're a busy girl. And this is my job.

unknown 1:04:24

True, all true.

SPEAKER_03 1:04:26

Um, I have like this fun little idea in my head where I'm like, there's past Rachel, there's present Rachel, and there's future Rachel.

SPEAKER_01 1:04:33

Okay.

SPEAKER_03 1:04:33

What past Rachel do you take with you into your races?

SPEAKER_01 1:04:40

Oh man. I don't know. That's a great question. The thing that immediately came to my mind, this one time I was in rehab. This one time in rehab. Um, I was just having a rough day. Yeah. And I remember um having a full meltdown uh at snack time and like throwing my plate at a rehab specialist. Yeah, it broke. She was crashing out. Oh, I was crashing out. I mean, I like and like everybody's already I I was coming from a therapy, a family therapy session. Oh, geez. And like immediately into snack time, afternoon snack one. Yeah, I do not need this right now. I hate my life. Yeah. And um I just remember like thinking that it will never get better than this. And like, yeah, just full crash out on the kitchen floor. And all of the people in the rehab house were just sitting at the kitchen table, like, either staring at me or pretending like they weren't staring at me.

SPEAKER_02 1:05:45

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:05:45

Um, and I didn't even care. Like, I was just I was just mi miserable. I'd probably I think this was the second time I was in rehab. Um, and I'd probably been there for like two months. And so um that's my that was my immediate First answer is like that person who thought things could never get better looking at a guy. I think I'd like to just be like, okay, but you're gonna be a trail runner with confidence, and you're gonna be a smoke show. Period. So like don't worry about it. Like, don't even, you have no idea. Because again, I mean, just like Stephanie K said, like, what if it all goes right? Yeah. Yeah. Like, what if it all goes okay? What if everything's better than you expect instead of just being like only stuck here?

SPEAKER_03 1:06:34

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:06:35

Um, so yeah, I think that's it. Just always brings you back to gratitude because you're like, thank God I'm not there. Thank God. Yeah. Thank God. I was on a I I'm just talking about my friend Steven, but I was on a run with Steven in Glacier National Park, probably in 2017. And I remember we were climbing, oh god, Mount Brown lookout, I'll never forget, because it was snowing sideways and like it was insane. But I remember thinking to myself, like, this is the sickest stuff I could ever be doing. Yeah. And I get to do it with people that I love. And we get to have these awesome experiences. And like, if I had let that dumb voice when I was 16 tell me that like looking a certain way is the only thing that matters, I would have missed out on all of this. And like god, that's so beautiful. Yeah, and like look what I look what I would have missed out on if I had, you know, let Anorexia win. Yeah. That would have been so lame. And so yeah, I'm I yeah, I don't know. I think taking with me the person who thinks that their life is only going to go downhill. Yeah. I don't know. We all have stuff that we struggle with, and I do think that sometimes you have more control over the outcomes than you think. Yeah. And you just have to believe that it will get better.

SPEAKER_03 1:07:44

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:07:46

I love that.

SPEAKER_03 1:07:47

All right, and then how's your present? What's something that's really filling your cup right now?

SPEAKER_01 1:07:53

Oh, as much as I hate them, the Instagram DMs. They're so nice. They're so nice.

SPEAKER_03 1:07:59

Um you know what you should do? Yeah. You should make like a scrapbook. You should screenshot them all and then print them out and scrap the them with like all of your idea.

SPEAKER_01 1:08:08

People do all sorts of stuff with reels nowadays. And I'm like, how do you do that?

SPEAKER_03 1:08:11

Um, if you ever need help, text me. I'll make it. I'll edit some videos for you.

SPEAKER_01 1:08:15

Yeah. But yeah, I mean, I don't know. I I don't always respond to all of them, but I do at least try to make them not bold in my inbox. Yes. And so I don't know. There's the ones, especially from like for whatever reason, the thing that really gets me is either women over age 50 or fathers of little girls. Like, oh, I know that one hits me to my core. Are you kidding me? And so those, anytime I get, or actually, I had like a 12-year-old swimmer um reach out and ask me some questions about like my attitude, and I was just like, what? Like, cool. That's really look at the age of the internet where you can just like ask me a question and I might respond. Yeah. Shoot your shot. Yeah. Um, so yeah, I mean, it it takes up a lot of time, and I hate how much I'm not really someone on my phone very often. I know. But um You're out in the case. I don't know. I mean, exactly. And like I'm very much, I hate phones. I just want to yuck it into the stratosphere, but um, but it is a I I understand that I've been given a platform, and I think it's my job now to practice what I preach and be, you know, try to respond when I can. Yeah. And so um that's beautiful. Yeah. So yeah. So the sub the continued support and the continued, like, I think people should tell people they admire that they admire them.

SPEAKER_03 1:09:32

100%. I'm also such a big words of affirmation girl. Yeah, I love giving people compliments and receiving them. Right.

unknown 1:09:38

Yeah. So, like, why not?

SPEAKER_03 1:09:39

And especially on the hard days when you're like, dude, fuck this run. I'm nine million miles in. I don't want to do this anymore. And then you're like one mile in to a nine million mile run. Yes. And then you're thinking, you're like, wait, remember that one girl you said, just keep it. She thought I was cool. She thought I was so cool. Like, I'm gonna do it for her. Yeah. And like you, I don't know. I just think it's such a cool reminder of the impact that you have. And when will we, I mean, think about the last hundred years. No one else has been able to experience that level of like direct support, you know, where it's in your face and you see it every day and you're like, this is crazy. Yeah, it's overwhelming, but it's crazy cool too.

SPEAKER_01 1:10:19

Yeah, it is. And the one thing that's been interesting, again, now that I'm much more public, is the amount of or I don't want to say amount of negative feedback because it makes it sound like there's a lot and there's not. Um, but there are anytime you're doing something unbelievable, there are going to be people who don't believe it. Very skeptical. And that's fine. Yes. Because I know what I'm doing, and I don't really care what people who don't know me think.

SPEAKER_03 1:10:42

I just learned the saying, yuck your yum, where no one's yucking our yum. That's funny. I don't know what it means, but I like it. Okay, okay, Wes told me about it. It's apparently like when someone kind of like shits on your like parade happy time. Yeah, like rains on your parade. I used to yuck my yum.

SPEAKER_01 1:10:59

I used to have an expression that's don't shit on my cake. Okay, then there you go. Um yeah, okay. So nobody's always vulgar, but I love it. Yucks your yum is a little more kid friendly. But um, okay, I'll have to remember that one. Um but yeah, I I've been really pleased because criticism has always been something that I'm not great at receiving. Um, but this opportunity, and I've chatted with Killian Korth about this quite a bit, and he is very good at just like not carrying it. Um and I'm I'm actually really happy with anytime I read a comment that's like, oh this is super sus. Like, how did she block? It's like, dude, you weren't you don't know me. Like, no, you you think this is suspicious? I blocked off 10 hours last year. Yeah. Like, what do you mean seven is suspicious? Like, yeah, 10 is way. Yeah. But like I know how I did it, and you don't know me. Yeah. So like I actually don't care what you think. No. And like having that be some like having that be my response is like, oh, cool. I have thanks, therapy people who have helped me along the way. Yeah, I have tools now. And like I have confidence now. And yeah, you know, I I just don't need like people who don't know me don't need to have an in influence on my life. No, especially if it's negative and they don't know what they're talking about.

SPEAKER_03 1:12:16

Never. So, girl, never. I always have this saying if you didn't want to switch lives with that person, then their opinion shouldn't matter. Bang. That's a good expression. Yeah, yeah. It's changed my life. I mean, working in social media, I get comments all the time. And it's like, thankfully, not as many as a lot of other creators, but like still, I they don't sometimes won't feel very good. But then you're like, wait a second, I would not want to switch the body.

SPEAKER_00 1:12:40

Sorry, you're not Michelle Obama, so I don't care.

SPEAKER_03 1:12:45

Like the only people's opinions matter are my mother and my bestie. That is all.

unknown 1:12:51

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 1:12:51

Keep your opinion to yourself. Yeah. Okay. And then future Rachel, what's the plan? What's the biggest challenge or like the most exciting thing you're looking forward to in the future?

SPEAKER_01 1:13:00

I have a couple of things I'm looking forward to. For me, it's mostly been um because there's racing and then there's adventure. Yeah. And I like to Coca Dota has been very easy to fall into both buckets because it is an adventure race, basically. Yeah. Um so for me, it's been over the last couple of weeks, it's like, all right, well, what do I do next? Like, what am I what am I? I'm doing I'm doing the UTMB, but that feels, you know, it's an adventure in some sense. What's the UTMB? It's a race. Okay. It is a race. It's it's an adventure because it's in France, but like it's a race. Okay. It's very professional and very streamlined. It's not flat. It's it's around uh Mont Blanc in Chamony. So it's gonna be beautiful. Gorge. But like it's it's just I know it's gonna be the Super Bowl and it's gonna be high stakes, and everybody's gonna talk about stuff, and like that's not an adventure, that's my job. Yeah. Um so what trying to figure out what the next adventure I want to have has been I think I have an answer, but I don't think I can talk about it. That's right. I might not be able to do it. Um but yeah, I have I've I'm excited to see it though. Yeah, I mean, if anyone's gonna pull it off, it's you, so we'll see. Um but yeah, so there's a couple things on the horizon that I'm like potentially gonna try. Because honestly, it was it was funny. There's one race in particular that everybody always asks me when I'm going to do.

SPEAKER_03 1:14:24

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:14:24

And I'm just like, I don't know. Like, I don't know when I'm gonna do it. And then the other day, my friend and I were talking about it, and he was like, Well, why don't you do it? And I was like, that's a better question. Yeah. And I don't have an answer.

SPEAKER_03 1:14:36

I love a thought-provoking question. Yeah. I'm like, wait a second.

SPEAKER_01 1:14:39

And he didn't he didn't ask me when, he asked me why not. And it's like, well, that's what I say. And so like people say that to me all the time when I'm like, I think I want to do.

SPEAKER_03 1:14:46

I was like, I was like, I feel like I should do a half marathon, and I'm like, I don't know if I should. And then one's like, why not? I'm like, why not? Damn it, you're right. I'm not gonna get any hotter, any fitter, any, you know, it's like, well, a better time than now, I guess. Yep. Um, but yeah, and so yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:15:01

So I'm I'm I've got some things on the horizon which I'd like to do. Yeah. Okay. Um, but I am doing it'll be really interesting. I'm going to Bhutan, which is a country in a Himalaya. You should look it up, it's a cool place. Okay. Uh, they have a national happiness index. Like that's yeah. Like the happiest place on Earth? I don't know. I think so. Actually, that might be Finland. But like Finland and Norway are kind of like happier. Okay. Um, but there's a race there that's for climate change, like to bring focus on climate change. And now I have this platform of a bunch of people. And so I'm like, oh good, to raise awareness. And yeah, okay, so cool. So I'm excited about that. That'll definitely be an adventure. Yes. Um, because I think you go up to almost 20,000 feet. Uh well, you have to have like an oxygen tank on?

SPEAKER_00 1:15:45

Oh no.

SPEAKER_01 1:15:45

Oh, okay.

SPEAKER_03 1:15:46

So you're just raw dogged.

SPEAKER_00 1:15:48

Yeah, you're just pure launch. No headphones, no oxygen, smart wool and a prayer.

SPEAKER_03 1:15:53

I can't get it. I was I was gonna ask you like, how does your phone not die when you're running for two and a half days? But I guess you're not even airplane mode. What the hell?

SPEAKER_01 1:16:01

But the first, so 2025, I turned my phone off airplane mode and it crashed because I had so many notifications. So I now I have somebody in charge of my social media during my records very soon. So that they can like meet it down a little bit.

SPEAKER_03 1:16:13

You're like, I'm gonna go down to my hole for the next two and a half days. No one talk to me. Just double tap some messages every once in a while. Hit collab if necessary. Make sure people know I'm alive. Yeah, that's all. Yeah. Just a little wellness check and then we're gonna go. Shout out to Dom Grossman. He did great. Yay, I love it. I love it. Well, if you ever needed someone to run your socials, I'll help out. I'll fly out wherever. Cool. All right. Well, last thing is we usually do this segment on the show called Dear Athlete, where we it's like Dear Abbey, where you do like advice for like little athletes and stuff. But you're already so inspirational. We don't need any more advice. I feel like we had so many good takeaways. I want to do a fun little rapid fire. Oh gosh. Okay. So it's fast. Speedy.

SPEAKER_01 1:16:52

All right. So bad at these. I did this one time, and the guy was like, What's your favorite prehistoric bird? And I'm like, what are you talking like an ostrich? Is that a prehistoric bird? I have no idea. Is that a bird? I don't know. Is that a lizard? I don't know. I don't know. Yeah, what is it?

SPEAKER_03 1:17:10

Oh, damn. I don't know. I actually Yeah, exactly.

SPEAKER_01 1:17:12

So I just that's my problem with rapid fires, is I'm just like this is surrounding pterodactyl lizard.

SPEAKER_03 1:17:18

This is surrounding the race. This is your this is your bread and butter. Okay, don't worry. Nothing, nothing out of left field like that. Um okay. This is really important. Okay. The first question is super important. Okay. Are you ready? Yes. How did you take a shit during the race? On the ground. Did you have your crew like turn away? Uh like I can't even shit knowing I can't even shit knowing that there's like a person in the other room.

SPEAKER_01 1:17:42

Oh, I don't care about any of that stuff. Um no, I mean, if I was at an aid station, I'd use a toilet. Okay, okay. They have toilets at stations. Porta potties and stuff. Did you have toilet in your bag? Next question. Um but no, I mean, if I was out in the woods and I needed to use the bathroom, I would um you dig a hole that's at least, I think it's I use six inches. But basically, if I can stick my fist up to here, it's fine. Um then you it's like a cat. Do your thing. Oh, you know, you dig over it. And then that's the process.

SPEAKER_03 1:18:13

Wow. Okay.

SPEAKER_01 1:18:14

That's the answer. Next question.

SPEAKER_03 1:18:15

Did you have to train your sleep schedule as well as you train mileage, or did you just raw dog it on race day?

SPEAKER_01 1:18:20

Um, I do not ever train to be sleep deprived. Okay. Um, and actually it's funny, I was on a panel with Courtney and Meg, the two and three women. Yeah. And one of the questions was, do you train sleep depriation? And all of us were emphatic nos. Yeah. Um, so I actually try to bank on sleep the weeks leading up.

SPEAKER_03 1:18:36

I was I was thinking that, but I was still curious if there was a strategy behind it. Okay. I already know you didn't listen to anything. Bing. Did you hallucinate?

SPEAKER_01 1:18:47

Um, this year I didn't really. I mean I didn't really. Well, just saw a few crazy pterodactyls, but no. Um, no, they were it's funny because they were bats at the start. Oh, but they were real. Oh, and somebody was saying that they weren't, they were like, oh, Rachel's hallucinating because it was like mile two. Um, and they're like, oh, Rachel's hallucinating already, and then a bat swooped them, and I was like, Bah, it was real. I know, like, don't you pretend like I'm crazy. Um yeah, I mean, like, you'll see stuff darting in the woods or whatever. Trippy. But like, it's I don't care about it. I mean, paranoid could be not real. Yeah, I don't really care. Okay. Um, and then there was a spot when I was, it was nighttime and I had a crap headlamp because it had died. Yeah. And um the rocks were white and they looked like skulls, but I knew that they weren't. Spooky. It wasn't even spooky because it's like, this isn't a skull, this is a rock. But then the fact that you were thinking that is still so much. It was a little weird. Yeah. Yeah, it was a little weird. Um, but that's I mean, it was nothing like Courtney said she hallucinated a kiosk, like some guy just like tending a kiosk. Skin fruit. Yeah, whatever. Like trinkets. She said it was trinkets. That's so funny.

SPEAKER_03 1:20:00

The ones you see at the mall. I guess. I'm sorry. I don't know.

SPEAKER_01 1:20:02

That's funny.

SPEAKER_03 1:20:03

But I so I didn't have anything like that. She's like, I'll take a keychain. Thank you. One please. Um, how'd your body feel during the race? Any minor injuries?

SPEAKER_01 1:20:11

No, I was pretty good. That's I have a 20-minute rule where if something starts hurting, I give it 20 minutes and nothing lasted more than 20 minutes.

SPEAKER_03 1:20:19

Holy crap. You're a freak.

SPEAKER_01 1:20:21

Yes.

SPEAKER_03 1:20:21

Um, what was the strangest thing you ate during the race?

SPEAKER_01 1:20:26

I don't think I had anything really strange. You don't really eat strange things when you're running. What was what did you normally eat during the race? Um mashed potatoes, oatmeal, and rice and broth. Were my real foods. And they had like chews and stuff. Yeah, yeah, yeah. You had like the goose and billion gels. Something else. How many do you think you ate?

unknown 1:20:45

Oh, dude.

SPEAKER_01 1:20:46

That's a great, probably at least 150. I mean, probably. I don't know. Well they do. Oh, they do. They do. Yeah. Precision. Precision is my they sponsor my sports hydration and gorgeous. Yeah. But I was like, the goose need to sponsor you.

SPEAKER_00 1:21:02

Oh no, they don't. No, they don't.

SPEAKER_03 1:21:06

No, precision's a great PR. What's something ultra runners do that's normal to you guys, but very insane to an average human.

SPEAKER_01 1:21:13

Sleep 19 minutes while running 250 miles? Like, that's pretty. I think Dan Green won the race last year and he only slept like 20. So it's like, all right. So now you set the record for most sleep deprived, probably. Is there a record for that? No, but that's interesting. Um, no, there's probably folks who I don't know if there's anybody who hasn't slept. But I did a 214-mile race last year and I didn't sleep at all. But I was planning to not. Like, I don't need if it's if it's less than I was thinking if it's less than 50 hours, like, I don't know. I'm good. I went to college. I got this. She's like, I'm a doctor.

SPEAKER_03 1:21:50

Yeah. We've done worse. Yeah. All right, be honest. How was the chafing? Not bad. Um, would a life hack to prevent chafing?

SPEAKER_01 1:21:59

I think don't people like to tape their nipples and shit? I do not. I wear bras for that. Men, maybe, I don't know. I had my friend uh one time was chafing on his nips real hard. Yeah. I gave him my champstick.

SPEAKER_00 1:22:10

I was like, you can just chafe it.

SPEAKER_01 1:22:12

Just no, I don't think I really chafed that much. Sometimes my knees, like the inside of my knees, will rub and that was what? Like each other. Oh. Yeah. Which do you run with your legs that close together? I don't. I don't know. Interesting. Okay. But no, I don't think there was it wasn't too bad. Okay. It's pretty dry. I think humidity is when you chafe. So it's pretty dry. Fair, fair enough. Okay. How are your feet? Well, I lost a toenail yesterday. Fine. You lost a toenail? Yesterday. Okay. Yeah, it was gross. Um, I think I'm gonna lose two toenails. Two more toenails.

unknown 1:22:47

Oh my god.

SPEAKER_01 1:22:48

Which is a record.

SPEAKER_02 1:22:51

That's freaking crazy.

SPEAKER_01 1:22:52

I don't actually, I mean, I kicked a oh god, I kicked a rock and it was awful.

SPEAKER_02 1:22:58

You kicked a rock on your run. Yeah, at mile, like late in the life.

SPEAKER_01 1:23:05

Oh shit. Yeah. And it and it's funny because um my I was being filmed by one of the precision folks. Yeah. And he just got it all on film, and I was like cussing and just like, my foot.

SPEAKER_03 1:23:19

Yeah, my golden foot. I know.

SPEAKER_01 1:23:21

Um but it was I mean, it was like this is the last thing I need right now. But that I I was like, my toenails coming off. Um but yeah, they were fine. I mean, they were swollen. And you switched shoes. Uh I switched to the same type of shoe. But you only changed to you only went through two different pairs of shoes. Yep, two pairs. And they were the unreleased 055s from Norda. Shout out. They're the best shoes ever. Oh. Best shoes ever.

SPEAKER_04 1:23:45

I'm excited for them to come out.

SPEAKER_01 1:23:47

Hiking boots or running shoes? They're running shoes, but they're pretty like durable.

SPEAKER_03 1:23:51

They're durable. They're kind of like Merrill's or like Solomon's, where they're like they have like the grip on the bottom so you can hike up.

SPEAKER_01 1:23:56

Yeah, they've got the what's it called?

SPEAKER_03 1:23:58

I'm terrible at shoe parts.

SPEAKER_01 1:24:00

Like all terrain. Whatever. Yeah, they're sticky. Okay. So they're they're fantastic. But yeah, I switched, I I didn't switch shoes for 100 and probably 40 miles and then switched because I got my feet wet. Okay. And then once those dried out, I switched back and then didn't change again. Okay. Last and final question.

SPEAKER_03 1:24:15

What was your most intrusive thought? Killian's gonna pass me, probably.

SPEAKER_00 1:24:20

But then I was like, no. You're like, no, bitch.

SPEAKER_03 1:24:23

Do it for the girls. Yeah, we don't care about that. Oh, I'm so happy I got to sit with you. This was so fun.

SPEAKER_00 1:24:28

Yeah, I believe we answered some of your questions.

SPEAKER_03 1:24:30

No, we literally could. I mean, like you answered all of them. Like we could gap for hours. Like just you're so easy to talk to and you're so fun. You have so many cool stories. Like, you're gonna be that sick ass old lady on a like rocking chair wheelchair with like a scroll of stories.

SPEAKER_01 1:24:44

I yes, I've lived a lot of lives.

SPEAKER_03 1:24:46

Yes, you're like a cat. Yeah. Well, thank you for coming on. Yeah, thanks for watching. Is there anything else you want to say before we close out? Oh gosh, I don't think so.

unknown 1:24:56

Okay.

SPEAKER_03 1:24:57

Well, I'm really excited to keep following along, seeing all the incredible races that you're doing. And maybe next interview, we'll do one where I'm on a bike and I interview you. You're running. Or you could run. Or I could run with it. I hear that you're supposed to do a half marathon or something. It's sold out already. Oh, well, there's more. I know. There's I really do.

SPEAKER_00 1:25:15

You live in Los Angeles. I was like one every weekend.

SPEAKER_03 1:25:18

There was one, it was the Nike After Dark one. And I don't know if it's like so below you, but like it's Nike's After Darkness and it's women's only. Oh, that's sick. And I was like, that's so fun and so on-brand. Oh, that's sick. I know. I really wanted to do it, but it's in Hermosa. I know. So I'm gonna try to reach out to Nike and be like, would you guys let me run? No, you should. I know.

SPEAKER_01 1:25:36

Like, I mean the worst thing to say is no, please let me run. Plus, that was like for years, that's what I did was like, I want to do your race. And I would get no sometimes. Sometimes I get yes.

SPEAKER_03 1:25:44

Shoot your damn shot.

SPEAKER_01 1:25:45

Yeah, sometimes you get yes.

SPEAKER_03 1:25:46

That's how we got you on here. So I just got my shot. Sometimes you get yes. I was brave. Yep, I said, be brave, come be on my podcast. And I'm so glad we got to do this. Okay, well, I love you guys so so much. Thank you for tuning in, and I will see you next Wednesday.

SPEAKER_04 1:26:00

Bye!