Gracie & Heath Pearce on the World Cup, Professional Soccer, & Life After Sport

Former U.S. Men’s National Team defender, 2010 FIFA World Cup veteran, MLS Cup champion, and one of soccer’s most recognizable broadcasters, Heath Pearce joins me for an honest conversation about life on and off the pitch.

With the FIFA World Cup in full swing, Heath shares his perspective on what makes this tournament so special, the moments fans don’t always get to see, and what it’s really like to experience the biggest stage in sports as a player. We also dive into the transition out of professional soccer, navigating the loss of an athletic identity, and how he found a new purpose behind the microphone as a sports broadcaster and television analyst.

Whether you’re a lifelong soccer fan or simply curious about what happens after the final whistle, this episode is a conversation about reinvention, perspective, and finding fulfillment long after your playing career comes to an end.

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Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:00

Hey Athletes After Hours listeners, you can now watch on Spotify. If you're subscribed to Spotify Premium, you can watch ad free. Now let's get in the episode.

SPEAKER_02 0:08

You went directly into the World Cup camp. They had to tell seven of us in person that we weren't gonna make it. There's nothing anybody could have said to me at that time that would have made me feel better. Feel better.

SPEAKER_00 0:18

Today's guest spent more than a decade playing professional soccer at the highest level, competing across Europe and Major League Soccer before earning an impressive 35 caps with the United States men's national team. He represented the US in World Cup qualifying, won a Danish Superliga championship, and has since become one of the most respected voices in the game as a broadcaster, analyst, and podcast host. With the biggest tournament in soccer unfolding right now, there's no better person to break down the evolution of the game, the pressure of representing your country, and what this World Cup means for the future of U.S. soccer. Heath Pierce, welcome to Athletes After Hours.

SPEAKER_02 0:56

Thanks for having me.

SPEAKER_00 0:56

You're welcome. I'm so happy that you're here. This is so nice. That was a mouthful. You've got a lot of accolades. Oh my gosh.

SPEAKER_02 1:04

I'm I'm I'm I'm trying. I'm just trying to stay stay relevant now. And I feel like, you know, we we'd been chatting to to organize this, and it would have been so much easier to do this like a week ago before the US went out of the tournament. I know. Before like politics got involved in the sport, at least like inherently involved or like in a in a very blatant way.

SPEAKER_00 1:24

I know. I feel like it might be the perfect time though. Because we can kind of shoot the shit and say how we feel about the World Cup now without our skin in the game.

SPEAKER_01 1:33

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:33

Which is kind of fun.

SPEAKER_01 1:34

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:35

But I do want to start off with how are you feeling amidst all of the chaos of the World Cup? I mean, you're in the trenches right now.

SPEAKER_02 1:42

Yeah. I mean, it's been, it's been fun. Uh, I went to Russia and for the World Cup in 2018, there was no US team. So I was going as just like a traveling fan.

SPEAKER_01 1:51

Oh.

SPEAKER_02 1:51

And I was doing documentaries and shows and things like that. But one of the things that that everybody's worried about is like, is it going to be a safe place? Is there going to be violence across all the teams? Is it, you know, there was a lot of political stuff going in at that moment. And it was an incredible experience for me to just see people, all walks of life. And I was like, wow. And there was a few things that happened that have happened in this World Cup as well. One, the host nation started well. So that brings everybody else into it, your general fans, like the wider sports landscape. And then you start to see of what's it like for the traveling fans when they come into the country. And I feel like the bulk of the stories have been super positive of people traveling to faraway places outside of like super urban environments and being treated kindly and seeing people from different backgrounds just show kindness and bring people together. So that those aspects to me have like really set the bar for having a good time. And then this one's different though, because in Russia everybody was based in like Moscow or St. Petersburg. So you would go away to a game and you would come back. And so there was like this mass gathering. So I was worried like, are we gonna see people? Are you gonna feel it? If you're not going to a bar or a restaurant or a watch party or a fan fest, are you gonna feel it?

SPEAKER_01 3:01

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 3:01

And that's actually come out in a lot of ways. And just seeing people here in the South Bay with jerseys every day, and you can you can sort of see when somebody's like European and the way that they dress or the way that they look, or you know these guys. You can tell. You can tell. You get there's that vibe, you know, and and they're much quieter too, you know, than Americans when we travel abroad. Uh, and so just having all of that has just been an amazing experience. And I'm in like a 40 dad group chat in my neighborhood that's been that's been quiet since like pickleball was banned from our park in our neighborhood. That's devastating, by the way. Yeah, and now it's just popped off. Yeah, it's been it's popped off for like a month straight of just seeing people who usually ask me questions that I'm like, oh my gosh, do I really have to answer this? To being like, so tell me more about the tactics and tell me more about these things. So seeing that growth and seeing the excitement, obviously kind of devastating the way that the US went out and the performance that they had, but overall as a tournament, just amazing.

SPEAKER_00 3:51

I feel like the vibes are so good here. I don't know what I was expecting going into it. Obviously, I don't think I've ever really like tuned in for a World Cup. I think the last, well, four years ago, I was going through, I think, like a big life transition. Obviously, that was when COVID hit and ended my career. So I was like, I was busy figuring shit out, you know. But then like before that, I was in school. So I don't think I was really like locked in on sports the way that I am now.

SPEAKER_02 4:16

But I think you just said that just to show our age gaps, to be like, yeah, you know, you've like, you know, you you're old and I'm young, but keep going. Yeah, it's okay. We've established that now. It has been established. Okay. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 4:28

You're ancient. Yeah, that's okay.

SPEAKER_02 4:30

I can own that. I, you know, my knees and ankles tell me that every season. Yeah, well seasoned framing. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 4:37

Yes, of course. You're wise beyond your years. But no, I think it has been cool. I feel like part of me has been like, is this just me experiencing this for the first time? And it's always been like this, or is this new? And it feels new. It feels like everybody's into it. Yeah. And everybody's sat for every game. And not one team is like favored over the other. Like, yeah, obviously you have like your you know, ride or die team, but people are still tuning in to like France and you know, Turkey and all the like every single game that's on, people are watching. And that's so cool to me.

SPEAKER_02 5:11

Yeah, it's really cool. And I I think, you know, and that's the second part is like host nations do well.

SPEAKER_00 5:16

Yep.

SPEAKER_02 5:16

Then you want the the stories that are like break into pop culture, right? Whether it's uh Cape Verde and the performance that they have. Oh my god, it's crazy. Spiral like growth of the goalkeeper on on social media, all of those things give people a reason to tune in and like because they're building out the superheroes almost, like characters, right? Like my own wife is like talking about the Nigerian goalkeeper, how like attractive this man is, and like, so I'm like, okay, if it's if it's gone, if it's gone that far, like we're we're winning on some level. So it's like all these things all the time, and and like I'm truly exhausted. Like, I'm tired. I bet. Uh, and I'm I think part of me's tired because the US is out, but part of me is also tired that like it's been a crazy adrenaline rush of of experiencing this and and seeing it all come together. And it might not ever happen, it'll happen again in our lifetime, but in a in a way that's like connected to now, and it's gonna be a while before we get to experience this in our own country, Mexico and Canada as well. Uh and so I'm uh I think I'm most tired that I'm afraid that this is gonna end and then it's gonna be like now what? You know, like it's a bit of a drug for me that I've I'm enjoying, and and being able to experience that both when I'm home or or or traveling has been great.

SPEAKER_00 6:21

Yeah, the drop-off might be a little heavy.

SPEAKER_02 6:23

Was it your first was it your first World Cup games that you did?

SPEAKER_00 6:27

Oh my god, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 6:27

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 6:28

I mean, the first one I went with was with YouTube, and it was like literally we were in a suite, like best experience I probably could have ever asked for.

SPEAKER_02 6:35

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 6:35

People probably drop thousands and thousands of dollars on that experience. And it was like sweet.

SPEAKER_02 6:39

It's probably beyond the thousands and thousands. You're in like another for this World Cup, like in another category. So it's great. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 6:44

I mean, we were next to celebrities, like it was unbelievable.

SPEAKER_02 6:47

It's a bit like flying business class, though, right? Like someone's gonna invite you and be like, I have you like you know, 300 section, you'll be like, nah. Like, you know, I don't really want to. Okay, you know what?

SPEAKER_00 6:57

Actually, no.

SPEAKER_02 6:59

Is there catering, you know?

SPEAKER_00 7:00

Because, well, yeah, the food was a disappointment, obviously. Once you go, you know, sweet, it's hard to go back. But I will say I preferred sitting closer to the field over everything else, like over a sweet, because to me, I was immersed in the culture of the teams that I was rooting for. And I was like, I was in it so much more, and I felt like those games to me felt way more valuable and like momentous, and just I remember so many more moments from each game because I was immersed in it versus like watching from a bird's eye view. And I think too, like, not that I'm ungrateful for the sweet experience, I just think like I didn't get to see the field genuinely. Like, I didn't really get to, I was like looking at the screen more than I was looking on the field. And I feel like with those types of things, it's like you might as well maybe watch on the TV.

SPEAKER_02 7:49

Yeah, it's a great experience in the suite, but it's a very different experience. Very, very different. Feeling like you're amongst fans and there's that energy that's bubbling, and you feel sort of the ebb and flow of a game when momentum shifts, versus like in a suite.

SPEAKER_00 8:00

You're kind of in like fans should be jealous of the sweet experience. I think they're getting the sweet experience by being immersed in each culture, especially like I want to be in the Norway row so bad. Like, it's a life goal of my own. I I just can't go to Miami. Yeah, I'm busy. I'm flying to Hawaii.

SPEAKER_02 8:18

Okay, listen to the soft story. Tell your story, look directly into the camera and just say how tough it is because you can't do it. Maybe they'll still be in. Maybe you get that invite to a to the final, maybe Norway reaches.

SPEAKER_00 8:30

And I found out that like the event I'm gonna be doing, they're gonna be playing at the exact same time. So I'm like, hopefully, I have to like maybe tell Red Bull, like, hey, by the way, I'm gonna have my phone propped up and like the game that will be on.

SPEAKER_02 8:40

It's okay. I think I think that's been one thing that's become like a little bit acceptable. Yeah, is like they get it. Well, I think that's where some of the exhaustion comes from, is like you wake up every day, at least in the group stages, you're like, okay, there's four games today. Yeah, which means I've got really like two hours of time to get work done in between. And and so, like, because then it's like back to that. And every time it's like, oh, we scheduled it during this game, and everybody's like, should we just like it? Everybody good on this call? Yeah, yeah, be done with it. But you know, you it's it's not too late to to get in on Norway. Actually, there was a uh a thing that I read today that Japan, uh, whoever Japan got knocked out by, whoever beat that team that knocked Japan out went on to win um the the the World Cup. And so the pathway right now is for Norway. So Norway Japan knocked out Brazil knocked out Japan. Yep, and then Norway beats the world. Norway beats Brazil every year. It's the last four World Cups, though, that pathway has been won by somebody who beat the team that beat Japan.

SPEAKER_00 9:39

Oh shit.

SPEAKER_02 9:40

So Norway beats Brazil, so you're gonna make a final. You're gonna get there and you're gonna get your row.

SPEAKER_00 9:44

I'd freak out, I'd lose my shit. Norway puts away.

SPEAKER_02 9:46

If they don't make a final, it's your fault.

SPEAKER_00 9:49

How did that how did we get there?

SPEAKER_02 9:51

Because I got that stat got sent to me today, and if it doesn't happen, there's only one place I can point to. I don't know any uh anything else to blame.

SPEAKER_00 9:58

That's fair enough. You can blame me, I guess. I'll take I'll take the brunt of that. Um I did hear that Norway is um the only team that beats Brazil. What's that about?

SPEAKER_02 10:10

Is that true?

SPEAKER_00 10:11

That's what I heard. Brazil, like I something about Norway, they have their number. I don't know. We need we need to fact check that. Wesley might need to look that up while we're here. I want to hear it if that's actually. So many like funny little stats.

SPEAKER_02 10:27

I assume it's right, but I'm too tired to look it up and see and like validate that on any level. I just like if it hits my feed, it's gotta be true. You know?

SPEAKER_00 10:34

Oh no, literally, I posted a video and it went mega viral on my TikTok, and it was of the head coach of Norway sprinting up to the stands to kiss his wife and celebrate them like going on to the next round. And I like captured it and put it in slow-mo, and it's like so cute and romantic. It's like straight out of a freaking movie. And so many people were commenting like the cute lore about the coach and like their relationship. Like, they were like, the last time he was on a World Cup stage, he was playing and his wife was a girlfriend in the stands 30 years prior. And I'm like, what the hell? And apparently, like he like died, was pronounced dead for like seven seconds or something. Oh wow had like almost like a career-ending injury. I don't know, so much lore on this guy. Yeah, but I like went down a rabbit hole with that one. I was like, this is crazy.

SPEAKER_02 11:17

That's cool. I mean, those are the best stories, those humanizing stories that kind of bring everything to life that make the World Cup fun. Because very few people get to actually experience being in a stadium. Yes, very few people get to actually like touch and feel it in that way. But I think like the the transformational opportunity for like fandom is in those types of stories that are kind of relative to all of us.

SPEAKER_00 11:38

I think mainstream media is also seeing the value in that now. Like, I mean, that's why I launched my podcast. Like, a massive reason was to help build empathy for every athlete. Yeah, I think a lot of times like people only see the stats, they only see the highlights, they only see, you know, like the typical media interviews where it's just very surface level. Yeah. And I think there's something so valuable in being emotionally invested in another person, yeah. Especially when you're rooting for them, and like the rally behind these athletes because you know little cute nuances about them or you know specifically. That's what I always wanted people to know about me, is cute nuances. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 12:16

I was like, I love when people know cute nuances about me. Gosh, I hope they know the cute nuances. You know, that's gonna, that's gonna, that's what I really need after a like a if I'm if I'm the US team right now, by the way, going out the way that they did. That's you better hope you have multiple. Like, here's some cute nuances that you can put out, like, hey, here's some positives we can focus on.

SPEAKER_00 12:34

You're like, hey, I saved a dog once. Like, please don't be mad at me.

SPEAKER_02 12:38

I mean, that was one of the things of like some of the viral videos they had is like the players playing with dogs. They had really I don't know if they were like adoption dogs or whatever, but they had some sort of I don't know if it's a sponsor or something, but they had dogs visit them. Yeah, they had dogs visit them, yeah. That would be great. Uh that's a cute nuance. Uh we did calendar together. That's funny. But they did uh they had dogs at their compound during the World Cup that they could like play with and hang out with, which is like great for good mental health and all of that.

SPEAKER_00 13:07

So that's so fascinating, huh? I would have never thought of that.

SPEAKER_02 13:11

I'm gonna start every sentence by the way for now on for the next week at least of like, here's a cute nuance of like little nuance, not like a stat or data's like, here's a cute nuance.

SPEAKER_00 13:19

That's the Your guy's group chat is like, yo, what's the next stat? You're like, I actually have something better, a cute nuance. Yeah, what has been maybe like the most core memory you've made so far from the World Cup? There's so many.

SPEAKER_02 13:33

Yeah, I would say honestly, my kids going to the games. Like that was probably the the the big one for me. Uh, just because I wanted them to I also wanted like I also wanted them to know that they didn't have a tough childhood, you know, when they try to hold that against me someday. I got three daughters and they're like, you didn't treat us. I'm like, see this photo? Yeah. You went to a game at the World Cup, a lot of people didn't. Friends should feel mad. Yeah, exactly. Like, you should feel grateful, you should be thankful. Them getting to go and experience that. Uh I wasn't playing, uh, I was done playing by the time they were they were born. And so uh for them to experience that and have that connectivity of like they know it, they see it, they they'll like brag about it to their friends of like what their dad did, but they still don't really understand it. They they go to a lot of galaxy and LAFC games, but like this is different. Like the national team is just you know, you know, it's a different field. Um, so for them to experience that hopefully is like memory they they they they keep. Um, but that's probably what I would say is top top of my list for this one.

SPEAKER_00 14:32

That's cool. Yeah, that's super special. Oh, I'd probably have to.

SPEAKER_02 14:36

Did you get beer thrown on you or did you get experience any of those things?

SPEAKER_00 14:39

No, and I literally worked with Mikelob Ultra. I was expecting something crazy, but no, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 14:43

But they were handing out those really hard cans, like no one wants those upside the head, you know. Like uh I saw people spraying those, but you know, usually it's like the the like 16-ounce cup that they just launch.

SPEAKER_00 14:54

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 14:54

Um, but yeah, you don't want to get hit with one of those things.

SPEAKER_00 14:57

I think top two, one might be kind of like sound weird, but I'd say the first one was watching Norway beat Brazil with my family. I was down in Orange County. Okay. And I was just visiting them for the day, and we had played volleyball all day. We were exhausted, and we were just laying on the couch, vegging out, and we were like, oh my god, the game's on. And we put it on, and I literally was enamored. Like it was just such a special time. Like my family's from Norway. I have, you know, roots there. So it's it was just really special. My grandma's literally there right now. Oh wow, and I wanted so badly to like FaceTime her, but she's like 97, she's like not out at the club, you know what I mean? But I would be like, Grandma, you gotta get outside. Like, you gotta go. But no, I think that was like a really special, like core memory for sure. And then um, and I remember too going to the bathroom. I was literally in the bathroom for not even 20 seconds, and they scored a goal.

SPEAKER_02 15:46

Really?

SPEAKER_00 15:46

And I hear my brother like screaming his head off, and I like run out, and he's like, literally the one time you leave.

SPEAKER_02 15:51

That's the way it is.

SPEAKER_00 15:52

Oh, but I will say, thank God for you know, being able to go back and watch it. But um, I think the second one was Switzerland beating Bosnia. Only because like I had been to Bosnia in the past, I went with Red Bull for a Red Bull Cliff diving event, and the the people there are just so unbelievably kind, and like you could see that in every single aspect of the game. I feel like every person has been so respectful, even after the loss. People were just like a little sad, they were a little down, and I felt so bad for them, but I also was like that just says so much about the people that are interested in your sport. Like, I don't know, I feel like with football fans, like guys are gonna be assholes. I'm sorry, like I feel like certain fans of certain sports like are very sometimes brash and like have an edge to them, but I haven't seen any of that in the World Cup. Yeah, not at any of the games I've been to. Like, there's always a loser at the end of the day, there's always someone that loses the game, and I feel like the energy in the room stayed, yeah, and the love for the game stayed, and nothing really changed all that much. Maybe I just have like rose colored glasses, I don't know.

SPEAKER_02 17:02

If Argentina lose, you will see rationalists, yeah. They will go from passionate to very, very upset. Um, but I like I've I've followed Argentinian fans around the world for different World Cups, and and they turn out in numbers, but when things you know go awry, yeah, uh, they can they can definitely get sad in a in a not healthy way.

SPEAKER_00 17:23

How did you feel about Mexico having like, weren't they making noise in like the hotel? Yeah, I think there was some like controversy around that.

SPEAKER_02 17:31

Yeah, that's not controversy. That's just is what it is? Yeah, like we used to go with the national team, we'd go down and play World Cup qualifiers. And if you were in El Salvador or or Honduras, Costa Rica, there's always a chance you were gonna get you were gonna get some noise at night.

SPEAKER_00 17:47

It's like part of that.

SPEAKER_02 17:48

And yeah, it's just the the gamification, like put your hotel somewhere else, you know?

SPEAKER_00 17:51

Fair enough.

SPEAKER_02 17:52

Put it in a castle up on a hill. I mean, they they'll those teams will generally book like four hotels, and you have all these like code names, the players don't have names in the hotels, obviously, and all that stuff for privacy, and they'll like select the hotel last minute that they're gonna stay in so that it's harder to track them down. Yeah. For this one, it's probably requires another level of organization. But I I I love it. I've experienced that before. I I remember my very first World Cup qualifier. We went down to Guatemala, and as we ran on the field, like they were hitting us with like rocks and coins and lighters and bags of who knows what inside the bags. You were just getting like stoned. Like, yeah, literally, that's what it ha what happened. And and like it puts you into fight or flight mode immediately. When you're standing in a stadium and you look around and it's like cops with canines, AR-15s, you're like, What where are we? Where are we? And it's all the way around the stadium, and you just like your natural reaction is like fear, and you're like, This is scary, and like that's they're in like you feel intimidated, and even though like that has nothing to do with you, you just see and you feel the atmosphere and you feel the booze and the energy, it's just like that's the whole idea. And playing at the Aztec are one of the place hardest places to get a result, like England doing that is spectacular. They hadn't given up a goal in in the World Cup so far, um, Mexico. It's like an 80 plus thousand seater. You're playing at like I don't, I think it's like 8,000 feet uh elevation. Oh, I did hear about that. Altitude is really tough. So all those factors really made it a tough, a tough task for for for England to to win down there. But generally, like the idea that the fans to an extent have have a say in this and creating the atmosphere in the stadium of trying to disrupt a night's sleep. I don't know. I think it's I think it's fun. Uh if it if it if it happened to me all night long in a World Cup game, I'd be pissed. But of course, you know, if I was on the giving end, I'd be like, this is fun, guys. Let's stay up all night and bang drums and light off fireworks in in the hotel. But I that that kind of passion I think is a really cool thing.

SPEAKER_00 19:52

Yeah, it's like just up the ante a little bit.

SPEAKER_02 19:55

Yeah, I mean, it's you know, you just want to do the row, you know, step it up and light fireworks off outside somebody's hotel all night long. I have a wholesome approach to the World Cup, though. Norway does have a wholesome approach, by the way.

SPEAKER_00 20:06

Like come I think they're so wholesome.

SPEAKER_02 20:08

Yeah, I think people's first um encounter in general, like the wider, you know, unless you have cultural ties to Norway or if you traveled there or whatever, was the Winter Olympics and the way that they dominate the Winter Olympics and just seeing their methodology around sport and sport development and uh people development, human development, all that stuff. And so some I think people got a glimpse of that. But to just see Norway here, you don't hear them in the media of talking about how far they're gonna go, how they're gonna beat everybody, you don't hear them complaining. They just seem to be having a lot of fun, they're just having a function. Going like city to city and being like, This is a great experience, and they're all they just so also happen to have you know the best striker in the world, and a phenomenal goalie.

SPEAKER_00 20:46

Yeah, I'm sorry, like they got a bunch of goalkeeper's phenomenal. I was like so frustrated watching the US game because not one time did the goalkeeper lay out, yeah. And that the Norwegian guy laid out every freaking play, and I was like, that's a goalie. Yeah, because it doesn't matter, like that much could dictate it in or not, you know? And so I feel like I think also just like energetically, it's like my team's literally diving for me. Like I better lock in, you know? Yeah, I think there's just that that aura that the team embodies that just is so rare and infectious. And I think that like unfortunately, I felt like the US kind of missed the mark the last game. Like, how did you feel about it?

SPEAKER_02 21:31

I mean, honestly, it's I think the most disappointing part for me is that we saw if you looked at our World Cups in the past, I I would say it was it would be a standard performance, like inconsistency was something that we've always had in this national team.

SPEAKER_01 21:46

Okay.

SPEAKER_02 21:47

Um, but in this World Cup with this team, so if you go back to 2018, we don't qualify. So this group gets sort of the fast pass into 2022. They get experience in the twenty two World Cup, and it's it's half of that team is now in this team. The bulk of the starters are are have that World Cup experience. And they were, you know, against against Paraguay, dominant, against uh Australia, dominant. So we saw this version of like, okay.

SPEAKER_00 22:11

We saw like a beacon of hope.

SPEAKER_02 22:12

Yeah. Yeah. And and I don't think uh we're always gonna hope and we're always gonna kind of over try to over-index on what we actually can do, and we want to dream in a World Cup of like what if.

SPEAKER_01 22:21

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 22:22

But this team showed some things that they were uh what seemed like areas that weren't in contention uh or in question for consistency, right? In terms of the way that they press, the way that they move the ball, the ability to score goals, um, the intensity of the team, like all those things you're like, okay, that's the new standard. Yeah. Because we've seen it, we've seen it for a couple games. This is the biggest stage, and we saw it against Bosnia as well. And then to go into that game, and I think the US did a good job in their in their other games of making other teams play bad. So it's not always just like the players played bad. Usually it's the tactics of the other team, it's the intensity. They meet you on all those levels and then exceed that, and that can force you to have a bad game, and then you win maybe in the margins.

SPEAKER_01 23:03

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 23:03

Uh, and I thought the US did a good job of that against in the games that they won. And Belgium did do a good job of making it really difficult for us on that day, but it was just sort of a listless, energyless, kind of flat performance that was disappointing because I expected so much more. I expected that to be the baseline of like collective fight mentality, you know, fighting over the like winning all the small battles on the field, 1v1 scenarios. It's the first time in a World Cup that I felt also when we had of our attackers in the box and were creating chances, like we might actually score. Yeah. You know, whereas before it was like you needed to put if you had to put 10 passes together, then put in a good final ball and then have a good finish, it felt maybe the stars needed align. Yeah, and that didn't happen as consistently. But in this world cup, it felt like when Balogun got in front of the goal, he might score every time he gets it. And we had goals called back where in real time they played out as goals and then taken back for offside or whatever it might be. Um, but in real time we scored them, and it's like that confidence building. So for them to go out that way against Belgium, um, just really disappointing because that was the area that I was like, that all that's taken care of. We know they're gonna do all those things, and they just didn't do them. And so you got bad games from 10 out of 11 players, and if you want any chance of winning in a knockout round, you need at least seven or eight of your players at like an eight. Again, the stars need to align. Yeah, yeah, yeah. We were seeing that before, but maybe that that step was just too big and too many players have a bad day, and yeah, like bad is is like a good way of putting how some of the performances were compared to how they played throughout the tournament, and and you go home.

SPEAKER_00 24:34

Yeah, it's all relative, but I do think I mean, what do you think? Do you think they just felt like they were in over their heads, like they weren't expecting to make it that far and they had too much expectation on it now? Like, I'm so curious if they didn't know what round it was, how they would have played. If they if it was like right out of the gate and they thought it was round one and they had that reset button, like I wonder if they would have attacked the way that they did in the beginning.

SPEAKER_02 24:59

Yeah, I mean, you've been on teams and you know that team chemistry is hard to build, right? You can talk about it all you want, but when it actually when you're in that flow state as a group, there's things that you kind of take for granted because you know you're not worried about it. And when you look at the US in the group stages, yeah, yeah, they if a player was beat, the next player was there.

SPEAKER_00 25:17

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 25:18

And it's just that sort of assumption that I'm gonna, and you're not constantly thinking about like, oh, if he gets beat, I gotta get there to make the play to help him. Yeah. But it's just that rhythm of the game, they had that. And if you look at the first like two minutes of the Belgium game, there was when the first goal happened, there's like three players all looking at each other, being like, Who's gonna go? Yeah, and in the previous games, it was like the first one was there and you read it early, and then if that popped out, the next player was on their toes to be like, I gotta make this play, I gotta make this play. And so when you have that, that's the thing that like I could feel because on my best teams you had that of like that next man up mentality of like you're gonna have to beat all of us to do something. Yeah, and that hesitance I think got into everybody's head, and then you just saw uh a mix of I think fear. People talked about like privilege and all that. I I didn't really feel that. I think it was it was fear, I think it was circumstances, and I think the magnitude kind of overwhelmed them as a group, and the players that they looked in the eyes throughout the group stages or in the first knockout game that they're usually looking at is like carry us out of this difficult moment when we're suffering. I'm assuming you look around and you don't feel that, and then you go, Okay, yeah, this is gonna be tough. And they just never got out of that, whether it's passing, whether it's like the technical side.

SPEAKER_01 26:28

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 26:29

And then you had you had other players that are like first time in the World Cup, and this is the biggest stage they've ever been on. Yes. Um, and were they a younger team? They're younger-ish. Okay. No, we had we we had some experience, but there wasn't there wasn't really a lot of guys like 30 over in that. No, that's what I was thinking.

SPEAKER_00 26:46

They look super young in comparison to, you know, like obviously them the big names that are very much older in comparison. So I think it's interesting seeing. I mean, there's benefits to both.

SPEAKER_02 26:57

Yeah. And and what I would say is with this group, I think the hardest part for all of us as fans is the way in which they went out.

SPEAKER_01 27:03

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 27:04

That's the hardest part, right? If you look at Mexico, of course, there's gonna be just as much media like going after them of saying, How could you lose? You had the home field advantage, you had everything, you had if you played a man up, how could you, whatever. But there was still like an intensity to their game when they went out against England that you go, okay, they went out fighting. And I felt like the US never really fought in a way that we had seen in the tournament in that game. So then you're just sort of left being like, Man, I I went out and I I like was screaming from the mountaintops for you guys of like this, this is a group that's really special. And then when it disappears in the biggest moment, you go, like, man, maybe I was wrong, you know. And that's the worst feeling as a fan to go through of like maybe I am delusional and it was just never gonna be. But I blame them because they gave us that, they gave us that hope. We didn't create that hope.

SPEAKER_00 27:50

They gave us that hope, which is a good sign, but you know, bad when it actually See, maybe I'm just always looking at the silver lining, but I thought it was like still a very, very, very successful World Cup for us simply because we finally earned the respect that we deserve as a sport in the US. I feel like finally US citizens are watching soccer for the first time. They're respecting the game, they're respecting the athletes, they're respecting the fact that we actually held our own in a World Cup. When I remember I posted something weeks and weeks and weeks prior to the World Cup, and so many comments were like, you guys are gonna die. Yeah. Like you're gonna get crushed. Yeah. And I'm like, did we get crushed? Yeah. We lost one game. Yeah. Like, is it really that deep? Like, yeah, it's an important game, but like, I don't know, I feel like it was a really big stepping stone for the sport as a whole.

SPEAKER_02 28:40

Well, that's why, that's why I don't my biggest I I guess to summarize this World Cup and the US going out against Belgium. My biggest fear is that the way in which they performed in that game erases all the amazing things that they're gonna do. I don't want that. And that's that's my biggest fear is because all the things that we saw, we saw opponents that had never respected us, right? Look at how good Paraguay did in this World Cup, actually. Yeah, and we took it to them. Yeah, we made them bad, we played incredibly well against them. You look at Australia, all the magnitude of all like the shit talking that built that game up, yeah, and we handled them in a comfortable way. Yes, we had own goals in each of those, but generally the performances were like great. Great. And you go in against Bosnia, we struggle against European opponents, and I'm not putting Bosnia in the same category as Belgium or or Germany or something like that in terms of like the quality, but they've got a lot of good players. They're still good, and the way in which they set up showed a complete respect for what the US had. And I think that in general is a great step forward in terms of putting a lot of uh national teams and and in and other places on notice of like the quality that we have. Yeah, and I'm my hope is that that one game, that one performance against Belgium doesn't erase all of those things that made us start to dream in in a big way.

SPEAKER_00 29:49

Yeah, my heart goes out to all the players too. I feel like it's a tough drop off.

SPEAKER_02 29:52

You talked about starting this with empathy, uh, this show with empathy, like for a reason for empathy, and they are not getting a lot of people.

SPEAKER_00 29:58

Getting empathy right now. It's it's like, who do you think's more devastated?

SPEAKER_01 30:02

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 30:03

They were in it, like they were the ones fucking putting in all the work, the grind, the time, their hearts and souls into this, and you're out here acting like you just sat and watched.

SPEAKER_02 30:13

I was riding my bike, and I had the first thought about Matt Freeze, who made the goalkeeper who made that error against Belgium. And I immediately was like, you know, because we kind of internalized our own thoughts of just being like, Man, you ruined my World Cup when you think about the team. Yeah. But then I was thinking about him, and I was like, in all my down moments of playing the game, and in in big moments where you make a mistake or or you fail or you come short of like, he will never forget that moment.

SPEAKER_00 30:38

Never mind.

SPEAKER_02 30:38

And that moment might come in his head every single day for the next decade.

SPEAKER_00 30:42

It's gonna haunt him.

SPEAKER_02 30:44

There is nothing harder than being him. Like, it's easy for us to move on because you know, tomorrow I'll just start a Netflix show and like enjoy watching that for a while and not think about soccer for a while, you know, or I'll do something different and I have all these other things in my life. But he, like, nobody is going to go through it more than him, which is a really, really difficult thing. And and it's not like he did it on purpose, you know? Like there's not like yeah, exactly.

SPEAKER_00 31:07

Yeah, bitch, you try. Yeah, you know what I mean? Like anyone from off the street, you try. Yeah, exactly. I dare you.

SPEAKER_02 31:12

Yeah, you're so tough, put a jersey on.

SPEAKER_00 31:14

Literally, we talk about this all the time on here. Like, you can sit and be your little keyboard warrior and talk shit all you want, but I want to see you try. It's flip on a beam, babe. I dare you.

SPEAKER_02 31:24

It's funny today. I I posted something on on threads, and like generally, it's been a positivity on there. People have been really excited, and people have been like engaging in a way of like, what are the tactics? And this is this or that, or I really love this moment, or I I you know that moment was weird, and complaining about refereeing and all the things you do as a sports fan in general. And then I posted this thing of like, I'm still really upset about the national team losing, and I don't know how we could have this polarizing performance from where they were to how they finished, and everything in there has been like it's sort of in the way that politics is in the US, where it's just like an I told you so moment, you know, where it was like, yeah, and it was all non-American saying it of like, I told you so, you guys suck, you never played a good opponent. And I was like, wow, like the polarization of once the US was out, and obviously there was all these things that tainted that game with Balogun getting his red card suspended so he could play, and it brought it just brought a weird energy of corruption and and just meddling and all these things that I think shifted, you know. I thought the US was on our best behavior for this World Cup. All the fans, all the people, everywhere that people were traveling in and traveling out to, and that sort of tainted things in a way that I think brought a negative light on this like elitist belief that Americans have that we're better than everybody, and if we're not, we can just change the rules. And and so I thought that brought a negative light and brought a lot of attention, and and a lot of the things felt aimed like directly at me on the responses today, where I was just like, wow, like all I was saying is that I'm upset that the team played bad after playing really good, and everybody was like, Everyone's gonna feel that way. You guys are the worst, and like you deserve nothing. And I was like, man, this the energy in this room really shifted really quick as soon as the US went out, but you know, you can't win it all.

SPEAKER_00 33:08

I think what sucks too is like it's just it's no longer about a game, it gets personal. It's like, what why does it have to escalate to that? Like, that's so unnecessary.

SPEAKER_02 33:17

Like misery loves company though, and misery sells and shitposting and and rage baiting, that is the thing that drives most things. And so I I remember I was just like, oh, I'm just gonna respond to this one, and I was like, don't do it. And then I just I I was so proud of myself today. I didn't respond to one of them for the bigger part of the engage and just keep it moving because tomorrow we'll be on to something else.

SPEAKER_00 33:38

That's what I'm saying. And like I just delete comments. Yeah, like if you're gonna be mean, you don't get to be here. Sorry, blocked.

SPEAKER_02 33:44

I was wondering why my comment didn't pop up on your block, block. Delete block.

SPEAKER_00 33:50

Um, you speaking of kind of heartbreaking situations, you came pretty darn close to a World Cup. How was that experience for you?

SPEAKER_02 34:01

It's funny because there was a lot of talk in this one about the way in which players weren't were were notified that they weren't going, which was via email.

SPEAKER_00 34:08

Stop.

SPEAKER_02 34:08

Yeah. And so there was all this talk of they asked Pochettino, like, why'd you do it? And he's like, players don't want to hear from me on a phone call. Like, they don't want to hear, you know, he basically said, you know, this was the choice that I made because I didn't believe when I was a player that I would have wanted to have that conversation of somebody explain to me why because I'm not going to be listening anyway. Um how do you think we were I I think that's tough. But it's it's oh it's also super personal, right? Some players were a long shot anyway.

SPEAKER_00 34:38

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 34:38

Right? Some players thought they were in for sure. When I think about Diego Luna and Tanner Tessman, two guys that have been in the national team consistently. Um, and there was a few guys that were injured that were weren't weren't gonna go anyways, but but those two players thought for sure, like uh Diego Luna was has been sort of marketed as one of the faces of U.S. soccer. He'd been very involved. Not that that's really an indicator of anything, but he'd been heavily involved and integrated into the tank.

SPEAKER_00 35:03

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 35:03

And so to get an email, I think is really tough. My experience was we were actually in camp and you played, we played two games, yep, and then you went directly into the World Cup camp. And so they we were 30 in camp at that time, now it's 26 on a roster, it was 23 then. And so they had to tell seven of us that in person that we weren't gonna make it, and so they told us in person, and I remember at the time it was actually the coach of Canada, Jesse Marsh, he had been brought into the national team staff, and um he was new in the staff, and so he was the one that delivered the message to like we could tell like there's seven of us in the hall, we're the seven, you know. Oh god, delivered the news of like that we're not going, and then you went into the room and you, you know, the head coach Bob Bradley at the time shook your hand, kind of gave you some words, and you went around the kind of this like semicircle of all the staff and shook their hands and they thanked you and everything like that. Um, and then you left. And I and like reflecting on it now, there's nothing anybody could have said to me at that time that would have made me feel better, feel better. Yeah, um, it's only looking back on that now that I have like a respect for Jesse Marsh for being new in the coaching staff and being willing to take that on. Yeah, I don't know if he was elected to do that or if they drew straws or or if he was like, I got this. He lost in fantasy football. But I remember being really mad about that. Really? Because I was like, this guy hasn't been with me in Central America when we're playing in these games. He hasn't seen it. This guy hasn't been in the not even about playing. He hasn't suffered with us, right? He hasn't been through what we've been through. He hasn't been in this group. And I remember being very mad about that at the time. Um, because I was like, this guy has no right to tell me I'm not going to the World Cup. He hasn't, he's new on the staff. He hasn't been, he hasn't earned the right to tell me I'm not going. And over time, like, you start to have a different perspective of like, man, what a what a what a honorable guy of being willing to take on a really shitty thing. To say it to yourself. Right? To say it to your face, to have to deliver bad news. Now, like in my business.

SPEAKER_00 36:58

That was easy for him.

SPEAKER_02 36:59

Yeah. When I now in my business, when I have to let somebody go and you you realize how hard that is, right? When you have to have a hard conversation with your family, when you have to, when you have to do those things, like it takes another level and and it's draining. You don't just get to absolve yourself and be like, oh, I did it, I'm done. So I I've earned I've learned some respect for him as a person. One, in the in the fact that he's become a really successful coach, but two, his willingness to take on a really hard task and do it. Yeah. Um, but it took me a long time to get over that part. Uh, and then, you know, getting those moments, like, if you're the coach, you're shifted on to like, we're not looking at the past anymore. We got to focus, like, we can't have any of these distractions. We got to get through this, do it the right way. And right way is all relative, right? So, this is a coach saying, I was a professional player at the highest level. I don't think I would have wanted to receive this the news this way. Um, so I did it this way, and and then it allowed for debate of how would you like to receive bad news? I'm not sure there's any sort of version of like a homing pigeon shows up at your door and delivers you a little handwritten.

SPEAKER_00 37:57

I mean, maybe a fruit basket would be nice. Yeah, maybe some chocolate.

SPEAKER_02 38:00

Fruit basket, like a little gift of it. Send me to Disneyland and tell me on the ride. You know what I mean? Exactly. Right at the top before I'm terrified to go down some roller coaster and be like, by the way, you're not going. Um and then like I'd be distracted. Give me a puppy.

SPEAKER_00 38:11

Yeah, that's what they needed. They needed the puppies.

SPEAKER_02 38:13

Yeah. Name it something like you're not going to be able to do it. Like, hey, by the way, yeah, you're actually not going to the world cup. The good news are the bad news. Yeah. It's like uh good news is I got you a puppy. The bad news is you're not going to the world cup. So, I mean, I don't think there's ever a good way to receive that, but those are the types of moments in my life. Like, I've been so blessed in so many ways to experience things that that others have dreamed their whole life of. And and I also look at it through this lens, right? In your career, you set a goal. And then when you reach that goal, you don't go, fuck, made it. Done. You go, what's the next one?

SPEAKER_01 38:46

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 38:46

Right. My goal was to play for the national team. The day I played for the national team, it became the next goal.

SPEAKER_01 38:52

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 38:52

Of like, I want to be in the national team. I want to be regularly the national team. I want to start games regularly. I want to do all these things. And so I don't know if you ever get the peace of mind to be like, okay, I didn't achieve this thing and therefore I didn't make it. You're like, that's that's like the tenth goal down the line to get to that point, you know? And so I try to sort of just reframe that of like when you some things you'll never have peace with, but it was also never the initial goal. Goal, you know. Uh it was just the next goal. It's like the icing on the cake. Yeah, it's like in and for the guys in this world cup to put it into context, yeah. There's guys that started every game, there's guys that didn't play any role, there's guys that played different roles not playing. And the question's always gonna come oh, you played in a world cup. Um, what game did you play in? Oh, I didn't I didn't play, right? You're gonna still have to face things. I'd almost rather not go to the world cup than have to say that. But that's the conversation always. Like sometimes people introduce me as like a World Cup veteran, and I just go, okay, I'm not, I'm not gonna correct you, but where I correct you and go, I didn't go to the World Cup, and then their face turns like blue, and I'm like, we gotta work through this now.

SPEAKER_01 39:56

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 39:56

And it's like, I don't really care, but there's never really like a thing where you've done it, unless you're one of the like the top five players ever. There's there's always a thing that you didn't get to. Yes. That somebody's gonna ask you the question on, yeah, that you're gonna have to be like, oh yeah, I I I I didn't play in Champions League, or I didn't play in England, or I didn't, you know, start in a World Cup game. Or and so there's just constant levels, and when you're an athlete, you're driven by the next thing that you're going after. And and and so for me to not make it, it's just one thing in my career that I'm very thankful for that that didn't happen. And I've grown a lot from from more from things like that than than maybe some of the positives and and benefits that I got during my career.

SPEAKER_00 40:34

I was gonna say, I feel like sometimes it's almost better to get a taste of it without fully getting the full thing because you stay hungry and you find fulfillment in other aspects or you find different goals in different ways. And I guess my question is like, how have you kind of shifted out of I mean, I guess kind of running back to when you were like really, really in it and your life was like all soccer all the time. How was that transition for you?

SPEAKER_02 41:09

Uh I was my transition was as I started to get towards what was not the end of my career at the time where I was mentally, people started saying, Hey, you should think about getting into media. And I think those little things that people plant in you as like, hey, you give a better response. So then the next time I did an interview, I was like, giving better responses more myself. And yeah, yeah. And so as that ramped up, like I was looking at a couple different contract options, and then I had an offer to get into media, and I was like, Oh, maybe I'll give this a try. And for me, I never wanted to be defined by this person that played the game. And so I said, I'm gonna give this a try for a couple months. If I don't like it, I'll just keep playing. And I loved it, and I was like, it's a new way to reinvent myself, and the shelf life of an athlete is very, very short, as you know. And so that was a good first step for me, but my whole life was still in the game, and that it wasn't until I started playing other sports, uh, finding new hobbies, things that like really kind of inspired me and made me kind of like hungry and obsessed about something and and bordering on like an unhealthy way in the same way that I was for 20 years of my life in soccer. Yeah. Um, that I was like, oh, there's these other things that can give you that adrenaline, that can give you purpose and and give you this like thing where I'm like watching 150 videos on like how to hit swing a tennis racket or a golf club or or like a surf video or any of these things that I'm like, oh, I'm hyper obsessing over this in the way that I did my career. So I know that there's other things out there that I'm gonna like and that I'm gonna love that are gonna kind of replace a thing that ultimately like father time always wins. And whether it was when I was 31 or when I was 40, yeah, you're gonna wake up one day and you're no longer gonna be that that person. And so that really helped me in in sort of transitioning into something new and and building skill sets and and taking all the things that I had in my soccer career and then applying them to new things.

SPEAKER_00 43:03

Yeah, and I think what's so cool is the fact that you you chased passion versus the paycheck. Yeah, you know, I think a lot of times it's so easy to get wrapped up in, well, they're paying me a lot of money. And it's like, well, but if you're not passionate about it, like what you're wasting your life, you know? And I I can completely relate to you talking about like trying other sports and like doing other things. Like I recently, when I moved here, I like got so hyperfixated on beach volleyball. Like, you know how it is here, it's just like all beach volleyball all the time. And so it's so it was so refreshing to want to have a team thing because gymnastics is individual, yeah. So it I I'm not really relying on my teammates the way that you are in in a sport like volleyball and like you guys clap for each other, you know, yeah. We brute, you know, we do our floor routines next on the sidelines, but it's nothing like relying on someone to play well in order for me to be able to play well, you know? And I do think it's such a cool character development to be able to step. Into different roles that also fill your cup in a different way. I don't think anything will ever match like the pure adrenaline of like competing at your peak. But I am curious, like I think you can probably agree. Like nothing really everything hits that.

SPEAKER_02 44:17

Yeah, there is no, there is no kind of high quite like that. And I think it's irreplaceable. But there are other things like when I got into broadcast, I was gonna ask you, what has like kind of scratched that surface though? I got into broadcast, and the first time I did something live on TV, the US was qualifying for 2018, and I remember everything went wrong that day. Like I had I was ironing my my shirt for my suit, and like the iron went through it and pulled the color out of like the ironing board. I was in Miami and I was like, Well, and now I need a new shirt. And then I went to I was supposed to go the day before and I got in late to get a haircut. And you're not supposed to get a haircut the day of anything, you need that like next day after.

SPEAKER_01 44:53

Okay.

SPEAKER_02 44:54

Um and and this guy just fucked up my hair. And so I went, I went back to the hotel and I was like looking at I would shower and I'd I'd do it, and I'd be like, okay, that like the sideburns are like off by like an inch and a half, and so I would go back and then he would like just do worse. And I went back to this guy like three times. I'm like, dude, I'm doing my first TV thing. So I ended up wearing a suit, a black suit, and this navy navy hair and this navy blue I mean, the hair I just gave up on. I was like, okay, this will be fine. Uh, and this navy blue um dress shirt with a tie, black tie, and I was getting all these messages from people being like, Are you at a funeral or are you on TV right now? And like messaging me all these things. Oh no. And I remember just uh laying in my bed at the hotel after, just staring up at the ceiling, replaying everything that I had said and everything that I had done that day. That's the worst. But I realized like that was the same for me as an athlete after a game of like you can either think about all the great things you did and build yourself up, or you can replay everything that you did wrong. And I was like, okay, there's this something to this live thing that's giving me a high of adrenaline that you you train and train and train all week to play the game. And if you miss your first pass in the game, you can have a shocker, or you get past that and you build your way into a game, or you have a brilliant performance. It was the same for me with doing anything live related, as I was like, you prep and prep and prep, and then the red light goes on, and you're like, It's game time. What did I what did I like? What are the things you want to do? Everything goes out the window, yeah. What are the stats? What's the data? Like, what did I want to say? And all those things. And I realized, like, okay, there is this adrenaline that I can tap into, there is something different. And then it took me a few years to get into other sports where I was like kind of crossed that threshold into to like an unhealthy relationship with the sport where um I've kind of dialed back to like individual sports now where I'm like it's only me that I can get mad at because I started to friends that were like knew me as like an ex-soccer player and casual like sports person started to see the side of me that was like locker room environment of like yeah, holding people to a standard. And they're like, dude, like this is a pick. Just do this for fun. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And I'm like, no, no, no, no. There's no such thing as fun. Yeah, you do this to win. Putting time and energy into being better at this, you need to be great at this. Uh, and so we learn to like get a balance and all of that stuff. But like, you know, there are there have been a few things uh in sports that I've played where I'm like, okay, take a step back. Like, this is literally 40 and over. Yeah, uh, you know.

SPEAKER_00 47:17

I felt like that was like literally the epitome of my father. Like, we did play volleyball, like I said, like last Sunday, and it was literally like the chain of command where it was like my dad was getting pissed, and he's like, Okay, you need to do this, this, this, this. I'm like, Dad, we're just having fun, relax. And then my little brother's with us, and I'm playing with my little brother, and I'm getting pissed, and I'm like, okay, I need to do this. This is like I never get mad at anyone else. I get mad at myself because in gymnastics you can't get mad at anyone else. And so I'm like, I'm not doing this right, I'm not doing that right. And my little brother Andrew's like, Gracie, it's okay. Like, we're just having fun.

SPEAKER_02 47:49

And I'm like, uh, how old is your your brother?

SPEAKER_00 47:53

He's 24.

SPEAKER_02 47:55

It's weird calling somebody your little brother when you're in your 20s. Don't do that. I I always tell people I have a younger brother too, and I always say like my little brother, and they're like, Well, how old's your brother? I'm like, he's like 39. I'm like, but he's still my little brother. He's the little yeah, and it's like baby. And some once somebody called me out for that, I started like now when anybody else says it, I'm like, wait, how old's your little brother? Yeah, now it's think about it. Yeah, it's funny. But yeah, that competitive nature is so funny, and it's like that dynamic.

SPEAKER_00 48:22

It never goes away. Yeah. You try to work through it, you try to go to therapy for it, it just doesn't work.

SPEAKER_02 48:26

And I I I like it in in in some ways, and then other ways I have to like I have to like dial it down. Dial it down and go, like, okay.

SPEAKER_00 48:34

It's not that big.

SPEAKER_02 48:34

It's not that big of a deal. Uh, but for me, it's like I'm putting time and energy into something, and like I'm putting in the work, and I just want people around me to put in the same amount of work or take it as serious as me. And they're like, dude, this is like we're playing horse at the park.

SPEAKER_00 48:47

You know, oh no, like we're playing Scrabble mom. Like, I think it's gonna be okay if that word's not a real word. Like, I'll give it to you. Exactly.

SPEAKER_02 48:53

You can have it. You can have it.

SPEAKER_00 48:55

100%. Um, oh my gosh. Well, I feel like we covered so much, but I do want to know a little bit about, you know, you're uh over a decade away from your sport and you're still so entrenched in it. Like you're still so in it.

SPEAKER_02 49:10

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 49:11

How are you feeling with your career now?

SPEAKER_02 49:14

Um, it's been I I feel good. I I like the fact that I, you know, my kids are at an age where they're sort of dabbling in sports, and I get to like I I don't weirdly, I don't like going to their soccer games. Okay, but I love going to all their other stuff. Like it, whether it's like swim or it's um flag football or basketball. Like soccer is the one thing for me that I'm still just like I I don't do well on the sideline with parents, like I kind of sit off on my own, and then I spend the whole time being like, man, they definitely think I'm an asshole for sitting by myself in the corner. But I'm also like just less comfortable with it. Uh so having them in sports has been a really fun journey for me so far. But and you have three girls. Three girls, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 49:54

Which is so cool. They're all in sports. Yeah, that's so rare.

SPEAKER_02 49:57

It's it's they're all in sports right now. Uh it's fun. But like my my daughter, my oldest daughter today, like she just finished junior lifeguards. Oh, nice. Um, and she won, so there's like 140 kids.

SPEAKER_00 50:10

Okay.

SPEAKER_02 50:10

Um, and they're in a p.m. sessions, but on the last day, they bring them all together for a full day session.

SPEAKER_00 50:15

Nice.

SPEAKER_02 50:16

And out of the 140 kids, they gave 12 awards. And my daughter won most inspirational award. Stop. And I don't even know what that means, but I know that like three weeks ago or four weeks ago when they started, she wanted to quit. And every single day, she was full. It was the first time I had seen anxiety in her, and I'd seen like these stresses that I'd never seen. She's nine, she's about to turn 10, and and she toughed it out and she went through and she got better and better. She's a really strong swimmer, she's a strong runner, but like the ocean's scary. Yeah, she worked through that.

SPEAKER_00 50:46

I would trip too.

SPEAKER_02 50:47

And so for me, like to see them do these things and play a different role for them and just to see them grow and accomplish, and then to see like the smile on her face when she won this award in front of all the kids and like see the validation of realizing she can do hard things, like that to me, from a sports standpoint is really, really cool, even if it's not soccer. Yeah, but on like a career standpoint, like being in marketing, being close to the game, uh, it's it's been a lot of fun still doing a lot of broadcast stuff, doing content, having a voice, having an opinion, um, feeling like I can still contribute to the sport, all those things to me are make it worthwhile to stay stay in and stay involved in it. And so, and to see it grow in the way that happens. Yeah. I mean, it's it's a it's a great thing because we launched our our my company called Force Soccer almost seven years ago with this idea of like the decade of soccer in 2026 and then women's world cup in 27, 28 Olympics, like all these things. Um and and uh there's just there that magnitude to see it all starting to come to life and have a World Cup try to prop that up and really be a validator. It's just it feels rewarding to feel like I'm I'm involved in something that's a challenger sport, but training in the right direction.

SPEAKER_00 52:03

Yeah, I feel like you've been ahead of the ball for a while though. Like you were in podcasting before podcasting was cool. Yeah, like you got into broadcasting right out of the gate. Like, I feel like that's a lot of athletes' dream to be able to transition as smoothly as you did. Like, I don't know. Yeah, I mean, I feel like it not feel like that when you're in it.

SPEAKER_02 52:23

No, like you're just like surviving, you know, flying by a search, of course, naturally. Like I retired, and then all of a sudden I was living in New York and I was like, what am I doing? And then started with making a show five days a week, and I was on the content side, and then immediately I was like, Well, wow, this life of like on camera feels very much like a life of an athlete, of like there's the shelf life, and you are you until the next you kicks up. Yeah, and so then I was like, I need to learn something else. So I started getting very much into like the creative and strategy and running a business and that sort of thing, and that's what sort of propelled me to saying, okay, I can be in this in a way that's stable. Um, and then I can build me as a person, as a brand of being able to transition from playing to being a voice in the sport. Yeah. So that that part's been been a really fun journey, but it definitely didn't feel um my it didn't feel like you had your shit together, but it probably looked like it from the outset. Yeah, and I've always felt that my career is going to be it's me right now, actually. Is it? Oh my god, yeah. You know, fake it till you make it.

SPEAKER_00 53:22

So many people were like, how do you have your shit figured out? Like you have your shit together. I'm like, are you sure? I haven't done laundry in a month. Yeah. What do you mean? But like I do think, yeah, I think there's something to say about athletes always find a way to find a way. Like, I think no matter what, like it is like a sink or swim mentality, and we always swim. And I think there is unfortunately sometimes you do have kind of like abandon yourself a little bit before you can really like get your legs. But when did you really feel like, okay, this is like a career I I have longevity in and I really am passionate about and I see a future in?

SPEAKER_02 53:55

Yeah, I think interestingly, like when I was around the time that I retired, yeah, there weren't many jobs in soccer, right? It was like you could be a coach, you could be an agent, you can work in front office.

SPEAKER_00 54:05

Um But you knew you wanted to stay in soccer.

SPEAKER_02 54:08

Yeah, and there wasn't. And now to see the space where it's expanding. It's expanding, there's jobs, there's subsectors in the sport of soccer that you can work in, whether it's data, whether it's like business, whether it's whatever it is, there's just like a whole uh universe of jobs there. But I always felt for me that my my journey was going to be different. So when I signed professionally in Denmark, I did that. Like I sent 300 emails out to as many agents as I could on a website that I found, and one got back to me. I was like, cool, I'm coming. So I worked all summer, my parents matched the amount that I saved, and I went there and I bet on myself. And whereas the other players in my youth national teams were getting signed in MLS at the time, and I didn't I didn't have that option. So I said, Okay, mine's gonna be different. So then when I got there, I was like, I'm gonna get to the national team this way, and it worked.

SPEAKER_00 54:53

So then I do love Copenhagen too.

SPEAKER_02 54:55

Copenhagen's great. So sick. Yeah, it's such a cool place. When I was 20, I lived in Copenhagen for two and a half years, uh, and living in central Copenhagen at the age of 20 was just Oh, you thrived.

SPEAKER_00 55:06

It was uh dangerous, but you thrived.

SPEAKER_02 55:08

Like I'm staring at one spot, just like my brain's just going into a place of like, yeah, like I'm reliving all that. I love it. No, it was it was really cool, but I it was more of just like I nothing was good. I believed, and I wasn't a chip on the shoulder guy. Like I didn't have to have like somebody I hated or something I was against to to drive me.

SPEAKER_00 55:27

But I don't think that I don't think hate is always like chip on the shoulder. Yeah, I feel like you have an underdog mentality though.

SPEAKER_02 55:33

For sure. Like I knew that like I was going to have to do it differently. Yes. And there was time things, there was like sort of a a current that presented itself to a lot of players at the time that you could swim with that current. Yeah, just like if you were, if you were, if you were a certain level or had a certain level of exposure, and I knew mine was gonna be different. So when everybody at the time was signing an MLS, I went to Europe and I bet on myself. Yeah, and and that's kind of what carried me. And and then in my post-career, same thing, uh, I knew that it was gonna have to be different. I wasn't gonna, I wasn't gonna get a job with a network major network when I retired. I was gonna have to do it my own way, and I was gonna have to suck really bad at it and then suck less every day until I got good at it. And sort of that's the way that I've sort of approached most things is like just jump in. I look back at some of the old stuff and I'm like, I don't like I'm reading on a teleprompter and I'm not blinking. Oh, don't even Defy started, okay?

SPEAKER_00 56:19

Rebel Clift, I haven't reached out, I had to hop into being a host literally within two weeks.

SPEAKER_01 56:25

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 56:25

And I was like, I've never been a host of anything. Yeah, you want me to be a host of your TV show?

SPEAKER_02 56:30

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 56:30

And that first episode, I hope it wait, is it out? Yeah, yeah. Like three years ago.

SPEAKER_02 56:37

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 56:37

Oh, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 56:38

But it's like, but that the only way to do it is to do it. Exactly. Right. And then you come out of it and just like I go back to my daughter with junior guards and she survived it, and she goes, Oh, okay, I'm I'm good, I'm strong, I can do this, I'm not as scared anymore.

SPEAKER_00 56:48

It really, I think also a lot of times, too, like we're so self-critical because we've been coached our whole lives and we have this tendency to hold ourselves to such an impossible standard. And it's like my mom will watch it and she's like, I thought it was great. You did something good, you looked amazing. Like, who cares?

SPEAKER_02 57:03

You know, and yeah, I had an intro to a show two days ago that somebody sent to me and said, Are you good with this? And I put it on and my hands started sweating, and I was like, and it was fine, but like me having to look at myself and listen to myself, I was just like, Oh my god, no, like just kill me, you know. Like, and that's that feeling of like I don't like to watch it, but I know I have to, and it's part of my own growth.

SPEAKER_00 57:24

Imagine having to edit all of your own stuff.

SPEAKER_02 57:26

Yeah. Have you gotten used to like your your your voice?

SPEAKER_00 57:29

Oh, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 57:30

Like people tell you, like, yo, you like back in the day, like you sound different on a telephone than a person, you know? It's like, yeah, now you see yourself on it and you gotta edit yourself and be like, okay, yep, cut.

SPEAKER_00 57:38

Yep. Thankfully, I hired editors for the podcast, so I don't have to do all that. But for like all my own shorts content, like I edit everything and I have for like the whole career.

SPEAKER_02 57:47

I will say though, that is a the people that I respect the most in soccer that I've worked with were all of the ones that you know, I it's probably 10, 10 messages a not a week, but 10 month messages a month of people saying, Hey, I'm transitioning out of the game. Maybe they have a lot of money, maybe they don't, maybe they've put away, maybe they've been successful, maybe they haven't. But I want to I want to work in soccer.

SPEAKER_01 58:07

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 58:08

And I'll be like, well, what do you want to do? And they go, I don't know. I'm like, well, I can't really help you. Then reach out to me when you figure it out. Yeah. But the people that have been the most successful were all the self-starters. Yep. People that said, you know what, I'm gonna grab a camera, I'm gonna learn to shoot, I'm gonna learn to edit, I'm gonna learn to tell stories, I'm gonna learn to write scripts, I'm gonna learn all these things, or I'm gonna learn to do business or whatever. Like the people that have the initiative didn't wait for somebody to give them the opportunity. And I think that's a generational thing too. Like some of our young people that we hire in our company, the self-starters, the entrepreneurial ones, were like, because we're remote and it's a little bit more, you know, in the marketing space, they're like, they're gonna thrive. Yeah. And then other people are like, teach me. And I'm like, We don't have time to do that. No, grab a shovel and start digging. We're all digging, you know, like and the people that have that self-starter entrepreneurial mentality, I think in in in in today's society and where everything is going are gonna thrive the most. So it's great that you, you know, could have you could have easily just been like, oh, I gotta figure out how to get somebody on or call in favors for editing, but to learn and to grind and to oh yeah, to like take the time to learn all that stuff, I think is like universally applicable to the rest of your life.

SPEAKER_00 59:11

Oh my gosh, it was the best thing I ever did. Like I built this Lily from the ground up, and I I remember hopping on a call with my team and talking to them and being like, you know, pitching to them. And you know, like they're a big, I mean, I'm I'm with UTA, like they're huge. They, you know, they represent like Caller Daddy and like these massive podcasts. And you know, at first they're probably thinking, like, all right, like we hear this every single day. You know, everyone wants to start a damn podcast, you know? And they go, okay, so what's like your concept? And I literally go, I'm gonna send it, I'm gonna send it over to you. And I also like talked about it as well, and they were immediately like, oh, you like already know what the hell you're gonna do. Like, this is perfect. We can shop this out, we can send this to people, like this is literally like you've done 110% more than what an average person would do. And I was like, What? Like, all I did was put down my thoughts on paper like what is that?

SPEAKER_02 1:00:01

That's amazing, but like you realize that that action, like that action to do taking actual steps, yeah, is super, super valuable that most people don't because they're waiting to be given the thing for them to go and do. And it's also different in coming from a team sport where you your whole life was organized for you, right? When you train, what you're gonna do, yeah, what the coach says is right, all of those types of things to like be able to transition out and now be like, no, now you're in control of your life. Yeah. And I think a lot of athletes struggle with that coming out of structured environments into the wild, wild west of life that like no one cares, no one owes you anything. You're not special, and and you're used to being told like you're going to do this today, yeah, and you're gonna do that. And here's what time we're eating, and here's what time the plane leaves, and here's like all that stuff is great for your focus in an individual like endeavor, but doesn't build skill sets, you know.

SPEAKER_00 1:00:54

Yeah, I think thankfully with my career, I was never like the top dog. So I did have that underdog mentality, and I had to work so, so, so much harder than I think a lot of my peers. And so I did have that initiative. Like, I I am a control freak. So I like I'm like, what are my controllables? Like, what are my controllables? Don't look at West. But I'm just like, what are my controllables? Okay, cool. I am out of breath during my fluorogenes. What does that mean? That means my cardio is bad. Let me go take a spin class. Yeah, I didn't have to take a spin class, but I took initiative to do that because I knew that it was gonna set me up to succeed. And like, I'm a firm believer, like, luck doesn't exist, it's opportunity meets preparation. And if I'm fully prepared, maybe sometimes overly prepared, what's the worst that can happen? Right. You know, like the opportunity is gonna present itself if the universe wants it for me. So I'm always like, I'd be super bummed if an opportunity came and I'm like, shit, yeah, I'm not prepared for that.

SPEAKER_02 1:01:51

Fucking go. You know what I mean? Yeah, exactly. That's amazing.

SPEAKER_00 1:01:53

Anyways, enough of the wisdom. Let's get to the rapid fire.

SPEAKER_02 1:01:57

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 1:01:57

Rapid fire world competition. Are you ready?

SPEAKER_02 1:01:59

Yes.

SPEAKER_00 1:02:00

One team that's exceeded your expectations.

SPEAKER_02 1:02:01

Uh Cabelberg.

SPEAKER_00 1:02:03

Ooh, good one. Mine's Norway. One team that's disappointed you.

SPEAKER_02 1:02:08

USA.

SPEAKER_00 1:02:10

You're gonna say that.

SPEAKER_02 1:02:19

Mexico England at the end of the second.

SPEAKER_00 1:02:22

Ooh, that's a good one. Any game that Norway's in. Best goal so far.

SPEAKER_02 1:02:34

I wanted to say the second goal uh against Argentina from Cabo Verde just because the magnitude of it, but I'm gonna go with the Tillman uh free kick uh to put it to make it to score the second uh in the what game was that? Bosnia? Bosnia game? Is it Bosnia? Bosnia, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:02:53

He's a soccer fan, so you're in luck.

SPEAKER_02 1:02:55

I'm like blacking out on the thing. I just I just said they're the biggest disappointment. I don't even remember the goals. Like I'm the I'm my own biggest disappointment. Like biggest disappointment in this World Cup? Me. Yeah. No, I'm gonna say I'm gonna say Tillman's free kick goal. Um that was just it was it was huge.

SPEAKER_00 1:03:09

Sick. One player every casual fan should know.

SPEAKER_02 1:03:13

Well, I really liked Mark McKenzie in this World Cup.

SPEAKER_00 1:03:15

Okay.

SPEAKER_02 1:03:16

Uh can I give you context or no? The US team. The US team.

SPEAKER_00 1:03:19

Oh, okay, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:03:20

He had a very limited role, only played in one game, uh, was injured for part of the tournament as well. But he was the one that was started the fur after the first game pulling like four or five guys together for uh like a small chat and a prayer. Oh and then it became this viral thing of the team coming together, like 60 people, and it had nothing to like it wasn't about the prayer, it was about bringing the team together after every game and just sort of like embracing embracing this like moment of togetherness and presence, which I think goes missing a lot in in teams. You don't see the role players unless they're role-playing on the field, and to see somebody who had a very limited playing role find a role to contribute that I think captured the nation and captured an energy that really created this togetherness, um, but also left like religion and politics out of it. You know, it was just very much like those. He told me the story of um, I know this is rapid fire, so I'm breaking my own rules, but like he told the story of like I was just pulling a few guys together and then a few other people saw, so they came over, and then the staff saw, so they came over, and then it became like accidentally became the thing that they did after every game.

SPEAKER_00 1:04:24

Team playing the most beautiful football, in your opinion.

SPEAKER_02 1:04:27

I guess Spain, although it's kind of boring, they're playing the most beautiful.

SPEAKER_00 1:04:31

Like I saw Spain, Portugal, and I was like, I don't like perfect soccer in my opinion. I think it's more fun if it's like not expected and like random things happen and it's a little bit chaotic.

SPEAKER_02 1:04:41

I would have said I I live for the drama. I I would have said Morocco, okay, too, just because of everything they do just seems very, very good and high intensity and high level technical and like it just that, even though they've gone out against France today. Um the way in which they play just feels like it's sort of like Norway, where you can feel somebody plays for the crest and they play for their heritage and they play for their family, and they play like that type of thing, I think, is really cool.

SPEAKER_00 1:05:04

If you could have any athlete of any sport on your team, who would it be?

SPEAKER_02 1:05:08

Any athlete of any sport. I would say peak Steve Nash.

SPEAKER_00 1:05:12

Okay.

SPEAKER_02 1:05:13

It's a little hard now because he's a little removed from the game, but I've played pick-up soccer with him. Elite.

SPEAKER_00 1:05:20

Really?

SPEAKER_02 1:05:20

Tennis. Elite.

SPEAKER_00 1:05:22

Really?

SPEAKER_02 1:05:22

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:05:23

Which player's face card does not decline?

SPEAKER_02 1:05:25

Can you ask that a different way, just so I know I understand it correctly? Which players.

SPEAKER_00 1:05:34

Which player's face card does not decline.

SPEAKER_02 1:05:36

What does that mean? I'm missing the context.

SPEAKER_00 1:05:43

The hottest player right now.

SPEAKER_02 1:05:44

Okay, the hottest player.

SPEAKER_00 1:05:46

His face card does not decline.

SPEAKER_02 1:05:47

Like over time or just generally? Um my wife says this Nigerian goalkeeper, so I don't know. Like I blocked him. He wasn't following me, but I blocked him.

SPEAKER_00 1:06:04

Which player would you cast as the bachelor? He's thinking so hard about that.

SPEAKER_02 1:06:08

I know these are like I'm the I mean, there's 48 teams. It's like you're giving me an option of like 600 athletes, you know.

SPEAKER_00 1:06:15

Well, Christian pulls six single. Christian single.

SPEAKER_02 1:06:18

Christian single.

SPEAKER_00 1:06:19

He would be a good bachelor.

SPEAKER_02 1:06:21

I don't know.

SPEAKER_00 1:06:22

Is he boring?

SPEAKER_02 1:06:23

Yeah, I don't know if he'd give you the He wouldn't give us the T. Yeah. Um, I'll give you someone. I'm gonna say uh Memochoa, the goalie from uh Mexico. Okay.

SPEAKER_00 1:06:37

Okay.

SPEAKER_02 1:06:38

Him.

SPEAKER_00 1:06:38

But if he was single, he'd be on the bachelor.

SPEAKER_02 1:06:42

Um you can't laugh before you ask questions because then I know the question is gonna be a hard one to answer. You're giving yourself a mental edge.

SPEAKER_00 1:06:51

I don't have a good poker face.

SPEAKER_02 1:06:52

You're giving yourself a mental edge when you ask this that's putting pressure on me.

SPEAKER_00 1:06:56

Uh-huh. There's always pressure. What percentage of players are faking it for the yellow card?

SPEAKER_02 1:07:00

Historically, 75%.

SPEAKER_00 1:07:04

What?

SPEAKER_02 1:07:04

I think this World Cup, though, because everything is under review, is a lot less.

SPEAKER_00 1:07:09

A lot less. Okay, because they know they can't get away with it.

SPEAKER_02 1:07:13

I think everything is just under a microscope.

SPEAKER_00 1:07:14

Okay, piggybacking on that. Which athlete do you think deserves an Oscar for their fake injuries?

SPEAKER_02 1:07:21

LeBron James, kind of saying faking injuries or being faking fouls?

SPEAKER_00 1:07:27

We're talking about for soccer.

SPEAKER_02 1:07:29

Oh. Well, you didn't ask that.

SPEAKER_00 1:07:31

Oh, well. This is World Cup we're talking.

SPEAKER_02 1:07:35

Um, I would say. I think Neymar's always been a famous one for for like Can he like shed tears and shit? Yeah. Wow. There's like all the memes are of his like crying face. Actually, never mind. Rapid fire. Last one and so bad at this game.

SPEAKER_00 1:07:52

It's okay. Last one and most important. Okay. Are you ready? I'm ready. This is like super important. I'm gonna get through this. It's fine, I got this. Fuck Mary Kill. Mbappe, Messi, Holland.

SPEAKER_02 1:08:12

Um answer that. I I like uh I will say those three names and then you can put them in the order that you'd like.

SPEAKER_00 1:08:28

No, you have to answer it. You can say, okay, we'll say kiss, marry, kill.

SPEAKER_02 1:08:32

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 1:08:33

For the sake of the kids.

SPEAKER_02 1:08:34

Well, you think killing is better? Like that?

SPEAKER_00 1:08:38

That's where you're concerned about?

SPEAKER_02 1:08:42

I mean, kind of. But now that you said it.

SPEAKER_00 1:08:46

Okay, okay, we'll push it to the side. How about that? There's no actual killing. He'll just be pushed to the side.

SPEAKER_02 1:08:51

Mary, Mary, Mary.

SPEAKER_00 1:08:52

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:08:53

Um kiss Holland. Um I'd have to marry Mbappe. And then I would uh push Messi to the side.

SPEAKER_00 1:09:11

You'd push Messi to the side, the family man? You wouldn't want to marry that man?

SPEAKER_02 1:09:15

No, he I mean, uh you who knows what the future holds, but right now I'm happily married to Mbappe. So you don't want to rule anything out, but you know, yeah. I you know, we it's just you know it is what it is. I don't want to rule anything out, but like I'm I'm happy. The bromance is strong. Yeah. Well, things people change.

SPEAKER_00 1:09:34

Thank you so much for coming.

SPEAKER_02 1:09:36

Thank you. Thank you. I wasn't sweating, but now I'm sweating. You know, yeah. What was yours? Sorry, you you didn't answer yours.

SPEAKER_00 1:09:45

This was for you, not for Mary.

SPEAKER_02 1:09:47

I know, but like if I say it was for you.

SPEAKER_00 1:09:49

Okay, if it's for me.

SPEAKER_02 1:09:50

Fuck Mary Kill.

SPEAKER_00 1:09:51

Fuck Mary Kill.

SPEAKER_02 1:09:53

Um that fan ain't gonna help you. You just gotta get through it, you know.

SPEAKER_00 1:10:00

Fuck Mbappe, Mary Holland, kill Messi.

SPEAKER_02 1:10:03

Okay. God, you just killed Messi. You just killed Messi.

SPEAKER_00 1:10:10

Push Messi off to the side.

SPEAKER_02 1:10:12

I mean, you're real quick to get to Mbappe, by the way. There was not a lot of thinking for what it's worth.

SPEAKER_00 1:10:18

You said his face card didn't decline.

SPEAKER_02 1:10:20

Yeah, but you, I mean, you just fully subscribed quickly. After spending an hour on Holland and Norway, you just bailed and went with Mbappe.

SPEAKER_00 1:10:32

But I'm marrying him. Gotta keep the Norwegian jeans. You know what I mean?

SPEAKER_02 1:10:35

I get that. I get the cultural. But like you, you started quick on Mbappe, just for what it's worth. That was not even uh you had already answered your own question to me before I actually answered your thought that through. Yeah, yeah. That's good.

SPEAKER_00 1:10:53

It's good to know what you I'm glad that you were you earned a reverse card on me.

SPEAKER_02 1:10:56

Thank you for that. That worked.

SPEAKER_00 1:10:57

All right, you guys, I'm sweating. Thank you for your time. Of course. Keep watching the World Cup. Oh no, but for real. Thank you guys so, so much for watching. Be sure to keep tuning into the World Cup. There are only a few games left. It's gonna be epic. And don't you dare forget to tune into the Women's World Cup in one year. Love you so much, and I'll see you next Wednesday.

unknown 1:11:21

Bye.

SPEAKER_02 1:11:23

Got it.

SPEAKER_01 1:11:24

Well done. That's a wrap.