Working With Your Partner Without Killing The Relationship (Eps11)(Radio version)

Running a small business with your partner can feel like a pressure cooker — invoices at dinner, staff issues on weekends, money stress, blurred roles, and zero work–life balance. In this episode, Kay & Crystal unpack the real challenges couples face when building a business together, and why so many tradie couples and family businesses struggle with communication, expectations, and boundaries.

We dive into the most common pain points: admin overload, feeling unappreciated, arguing about money, unclear responsibilities, and the constant “Are we partners or business owners first?” tension. You’ll hear practical strategies to reduce conflict, improve communication, set clear roles, introduce weekly business meetings, and create boundaries that protect both your relationship and your business.

If you’re a tradie couple, small business owner, or partner working behind the scenes in the admin/bookkeeping trenches, this episode gives you real‑world tools to work together without burning out — or burning down the relationship.

Perfect for: tradie wives, small business owners, family businesses, couples in business, admin partners, bookkeepers, and anyone juggling love + business.

shows at the beginning of each episode for 15 seconds

Connect with us:
Crystal Petzer - https://businessgrowthcoach.com.au/
Kay Godfrey - https://upupandaway.net.au/

Radio Northern Beaches 88.7 or 90.3 FM - https://www.rnb.org.au/
Email us - radio@businessgrowthcoach.com.au

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If this episode hits home, share it with a business owner who needs to hear it.

Transcript

SPEAKER_04 0:15

Well, hello everybody. You're listening to Kay and Crystal, Small Business Sorted. So today's topic is something that's quite we hear a lot of and it's certainly all over the social media, isn't it, Kay, all that talk?

SPEAKER_01 0:28

Yes.

SPEAKER_04 0:29

And I guess it's a topic that if you've ever found yourself discussing invoices over dinner, if you arguing about staff on a Saturday or a weekend, or wondering whether your husband and wife or a business partner first, which what role am I playing? And then and then basically this episode is for you. So it's really working with your partner without killing the relationship. Exactly.

SPEAKER_02 0:55

Working with your partner without killing the relationship.

SPEAKER_04 0:59

It's an interesting topic, but we thought we'd really bring it up to you so that we could really discuss some of the ins and outs and what works, what doesn't work, and what you could do about it. Because I think a lot of people find themselves in that sometimes.

SPEAKER_02 1:11

I think this topic is something that affects thousands of small businesses across Australia and other countries too, working with your partner. Yes. So if you've ever found yourself discussing invoices over dinner, arguing about staff on a weekend, or wondering whether your husband and what you are husband and wife or business partners first, this episode is for you. Yes. So we're not relationship counselors. We don't pretend to be relationship counselors. We wouldn't like to be relationship counsellors. We're business people who have worked with many family businesses and couples over the years. And we've seen what works and we've definitely seen what doesn't work. And one thing we've noticed recently is the online forums that exist, specifically Trade Wives. Every week there are posts on it about this topic. They are. And the questions are questions. I'm doing all the admin, but I don't feel appreciated. We argue about money. What else, Crystal? How do we stop talking about work at the weekend? I feel like I'm running the business, but no one sees it. If any of those sound familiar to you, you're definitely not alone. No, you're not alone.

SPEAKER_04 2:31

And I I often hear it from a male perspective as well. So I don't think it's just a one-way street with the trade wife, but I think it's a problem per se, just for the whole relationship and working together.

SPEAKER_02 2:44

Yeah. I I'll I'll put this in as a my two penny worth at the moment. My husband never wanted to work with me in my business. Yeah. Okay, I'm a bookkeeper, I'm not a trade. But but still, I think he knew what might happen. Yeah. And he was he wanted to stay out of it, and he did. And I think that's was probably the best thing that he ever did. Although I didn't really appreciate it at the time. No. Because I wanted some extra bookkeeping help, but didn't get it. But he was a finance guy too. If he was finance, it seemed like the obvious. Sometimes it might seem like the obvious choice that your partner does come into the business with you, but maybe it isn't. Isn't the right decision?

SPEAKER_03 3:28

No.

SPEAKER_02 3:29

I know a lot of comments on trade wives, particularly the the women, and it is obviously because it's tradey wives, it's the women. They feel that they haven't progressed their career, their own career. So they feel put out really that they haven't managed to accomplish what they actually wanted to. So that that doesn't help the situation either. No, it doesn't. So Crystal, why do couples work together? There must be some positives to working together in the same business.

SPEAKER_04 3:59

Well, Jim and I have been working together, what, for 35 years in different businesses, and we still and we've we've really worked it out over the years. It's never been a major problem for us. I think we worked out what our roles were early on, and maybe that's what it is. But it's been a very successful working relationship. We don't we don't argue about the money, we both have the same talk about the same goals. We don't have to do that. So how was your day today when you walk in the door? That's true. That's true.

SPEAKER_02 4:27

I don't get that anyway. But no, but I think the benefits of of working together can be you've got shared goals. It's one business, you're both invested in that one business. So it's not as if you're doing two different jobs. No. You've got totally different goals, or even if you've got you're at a woman at home just looking after the kids, and the husband's just doing the business, then you've got different goals too.

SPEAKER_04 4:55

And and I think we need to say here that that being at home with the kids is not a is not a secondary job either. That that that job in itself is just so busy and so important and so tiring re in its own right. And then you've got to add running a business in on top of that, just say you're helping out. It's a lot of pressure just to to manage it all, especially if you don't have any other support or you don't know what you're doing. I think that could be really hard as well. But I think you're right, shared goals. The one thing that I that that we haven't that we haven't noted is that often I think with Jim and I, the money situation and the bank accounts. And I'm not sure how everybody everybody runs their bank accounts and money situation differently. But Jim and I always shared, we had a business account and then we had a personal account and we shared both. So we both had equal access to it. We didn't have my my account and then his account and then this expense account where we share the expenses. I don't know how everybody works, but that was kind of how we do.

SPEAKER_02 5:57

So that probably helps if you split that up, if you don't have it combined. That would probably, I would imagine, help if you've got things split. I know with me, I've got my account, his account, our account. Okay, so you've got them all different. Yeah, and then my business account.

SPEAKER_04 6:18

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 6:19

So yeah.

SPEAKER_04 6:19

So do you each have your own money and then you put it into the expense account, and then you both then the bills get paid out of that type of thing?

SPEAKER_02 6:26

Yeah, the bills get paid out of the expense account. And then what do you do for holidays? We've got a holiday account too.

SPEAKER_04 6:31

Oh, okay. So you've got lots of different accounts, and you put all that money into those buckets. Yes. So is it always is it our money or is it my money your?

SPEAKER_02 6:38

To be honest, it's all our money. Oh no, no, it's not. Some of it's mine. Okay. Some of it's mine. It's my no, he's got his, I've got mine. He spends a lot of money on photography. Right, but you does you. That's that's and what he spends, he spends. I don't ask questions except when something arrives at the doorstep and I say, Did you buy something else today? He likes to buy. He can't be back today because I got something to some stuff delivered from Chemist Warehouse, some beauty products. So he said, Oh, what did you get from Chemis? Beauty products. So we have a bit of a laugh about it, but no, I I think the whole point of that is if you've got enough money, you're okay.

SPEAKER_03 7:20

Yes.

SPEAKER_02 7:20

Once it starts to get short. And I think a lot of businesses and people out there have issues with not enough cash. So that's when it gets hard. But I want to go back to the advantages of working together, first of all. Yeah, okay. So understanding each other's pressures.

SPEAKER_04 7:38

I think that, like you said before, like having shared goals, what do you actually want to get out of the business? I think that trust in each other to do the right thing in the business and to trust each other's skills is probably really key. And you're building something together. I think that's important. Yeah. Flexibility, how would that work? Yeah, I guess I don't know. I think you've got to be flexible with each other. And I think's changing business so quickly to kind of know, like suddenly you've got too much work, too little work, too much money, no money. I think being flexible to be able to change or pivot, I guess, your how you do things. I was speaking to a client this morning and he was talking about listening to Richard Branson on this podcast. I think there's a podcast or something where they combine all his books into one thing. Okay. Well, so it's really, it's really quite an interesting thing. But what he did was was that when his magazine that he had, like the y that uni magazine or the music magazine that he had, they used to put sales went, they they were going really good and was like a mail order thing. And they would put little s radio, little record singles on top of the the newsletter.

SPEAKER_01 8:46

Okay.

SPEAKER_04 8:47

And what ended up happening was that the the mail in the UK went on strike. And so he ended up that whole business failed. Oh dear. So then he had a then what they did was they went and opened up a record shop on Oxford Street, and then suddenly that just blew up and they ended up with 30 stores around the UK because then people could actually just walk in there to buy the records instead of it being on the mail order, they could actually go in there and buy it. So it's interesting how sometimes when your business or situations happen that you your business gets caught in, you have to be able to be flexible to be able to move your business to something that's going to make a profitable.

SPEAKER_02 9:24

So I think now let's talk about the couple who are fighting over everything. So a plumbing business. Yeah. He was on the tools, she ran the office. Yeah. Every afternoon he'd arrive home asking, Have we been paid? Did you order the parts? We haven't why haven't you answered that customer? She felt criticized, he felt out of control, neither realized they were actually asking the wrong questions. They should have been asking. So what changed? How did they change this situation that they were in? I think what they did was, and what we recommend to other people that you do is introduce a weekly meeting. A business meeting. Oh yeah. Don't talk about this stuff, Adina. That's a great idea. Or in bed. Yes. Introduce a meeting, an official it's a business. Yeah. Don't act like it's not a business. So have a meeting with your partner to discuss business. Well, Jim and I do that.

SPEAKER_04 10:28

We we have a meeting on Mondays at 2 30 every every Monday. And we talk we go through the business for an hour. So we look at outstanding monies. We look at the job statuses and where every job's at. How's the admin tracking? Is there anything that you haven't done last week or need to do? And then we look at marketing. How do we how do we keep getting work in? And we we actually track that and and make a note of that. So that weekly meeting is important for us. I know that much.

SPEAKER_02 10:56

Yep.

SPEAKER_04 10:56

What about, yeah, your financial updates? So you could do your financial updates in that meeting, but Jim and I will have a separate meeting for the end of financial or the end of months.

SPEAKER_02 11:06

End of month, yeah.

SPEAKER_04 11:07

Yeah, so then we look at what's happening in the end of months.

SPEAKER_02 11:10

And something else that you really do need to do is you need to define the responsibilities for each of you.

SPEAKER_00 11:15

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 11:16

And have those separate. Not don't have them crossing over. That'll just cause an agreed shared responsibility. Agreed, shared responsibility.

SPEAKER_04 11:25

I think that's the key. Yep. So how would you so so if you think about that couple that's arguing all the time and everything, how would they go about that?

SPEAKER_02 11:34

They'd schedule a meeting for Monday mornings. Yeah. And they would sit down. The first thing they'll be discussing is what is everybody's responsibility. So what's the wife's responsibility, what's the husband's responsibility, who's doing the bookkeeping, who's doing the ordering, who's doing the quoting, who's doing the actual jobs.

SPEAKER_03 11:55

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 11:55

And not to cross over on those those two. Well, that's where the trust comes in. Yep, yeah, that's true.

SPEAKER_04 12:01

And I that's true. I suppose if you feel like you've got too much on your plate already, just from the the tradey wife, right? And if the the the husband thinks he's got too much on his, maybe it's time to get an admin or a bookkeeper.

SPEAKER_02 12:16

Yes, yes, yes.

SPEAKER_04 12:16

Or maybe you you need to get other help in the business and maybe look at how profitable you are. But if you're both feeling like you're drowning or or you're fighting over everything, I think having shared responsibilities is fine. Oh, greed responsibilities is fine. But if if there's no trust and you're arguing all the time, yeah, it that could be tricky too. But you might need another person in the business.

SPEAKER_02 12:41

What about I've just thought of this.

SPEAKER_04 12:43

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 12:44

What about having the kids do work for you in the business? Two-year-old doing work. No, no, no, no. People do, they're older, don't they?

SPEAKER_04 12:52

Yeah. Kids do I was at a meeting Tuesday afternoon, and the there was a 13-year-old son there who was was a his dad was a plumber, and he brought him along to that that BI meeting. And he was there because he was he had been short-staffed, and his son was helping him. So I thought that was really, really sweet. He was with all these adults and this young kid. What a what a great experience for him, right?

SPEAKER_02 13:19

Something else you people out there can call in, write in about is do your sons or daughters work in your business with you?

SPEAKER_04 13:27

Well, my dad when I, when we were back back in South Africa days, remember the days where if you had a petrol station or a service station, you used to have an account. So everybody used to have a petrol account back in the day. So you'd you'd there was no credit card. I don't remember that far back.

SPEAKER_01 13:43

That was that was before credit cards, but you we had checks and cash.

SPEAKER_04 13:46

And then so you also have that that little and some little corner stores used to run accounts as well, and then you'd pay it at the end of the month. But he used to have me typing up the invoices, and I must have been about eleven or twelve. And he bought me a typewriter, and I used to sit there on the weekends for some pocket money, and I used to type up all the invoices.

SPEAKER_02 14:02

So yeah, so I was cheap labor, I think, back in the day. I didn't actually work for my father because he was he worked for the government to be honest. But every year he used to work on the census or the polling or whatever. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And he had for some I remember I used to help him, I had to cross off all the names of the people. I think we got the pieces of paper, the people who'd voted. Oh yeah. And then I had to cross off with a ruler each name. So I I helped him do that.

SPEAKER_04 14:33

But isn't that great? It's like giving you responsibility when you were kidding. And I think sometimes giving kids responsibility from a younger age definitely helps set them up to be it helps them as they become an adult. They they can see what it's about.

SPEAKER_02 14:46

But your kids didn't go into your business, did they?

SPEAKER_04 14:48

No, they did in the service station days. They used to be we used to get them to work in the fridge and they'd be the packers.

SPEAKER_01 14:55

They still talk about everything. I think we used to pay them in pies and slurpees.

unknown 15:00

Okay.

SPEAKER_04 15:01

No, but they did. And Christmas Day used to be our busiest day of the year. And so we used to, and this was something that was a conflict for Jim and I when we first met. When you own a 24-hour business seven days a week, you sometimes have to work on the busiest days. And so Christmas Day was our busiest day, and for a lot of retailers it is. And we always had to work. So we could never be away during those times. We had to be on call 24 hours, and we had to work. And and that was, and my sons used to work for for a long time, we had it what, 10-15 years? They used to have to work from when they were very little to when they were teenagers, every Christmas day and Boxing Day, they would have to work. And but they, I don't know, no one ever really complained. We just got on with it. It was an accepted thing in our family.

SPEAKER_02 15:45

Yep. So going back to this couple, yeah, because they'd introduce their monthly meetings and they had their defined responsibilities, arguments reduced dramatically. Nothing magical happened, but communication improved. Yeah, I could see how that would work. So it's it wasn't a big, big change, a big thing, but it was just setting the boundaries, I suppose. That's a really good word. I like that.

SPEAKER_04 16:08

It might be my key takeout word today, boundaries. Boundaries. I think knowing what you're getting into, and then also when you are arguing a lot, you've got to just sit down and just go, hey, what's more important here? Yeah. And do it earlier than later would be my advice for that as well.

SPEAKER_02 16:24

Yes, yes, yes. So I think one of the biggest problems isn't communication, it's unclear expectations. So people assume that the other person knows what the other person wants, what the other person's thinking. Yeah. And often, very often, that is not the case. And I'm probably thinking of myself and at home. Yeah. Although we don't work in the same business, that still probably holds true. That you think what the other person is thinking, but you actually don't. I think we all do that to a point, don't we?

SPEAKER_04 16:59

Like I think we assume is that well, what's that saying? It makes an ass out of you and me if you break the word down, assume.

SPEAKER_02 17:06

Oh, okay. It's like that. What was it we well be earlier on? We didn't know what A-I-T-A stood for. It's it's am I the asshole? We had to look that up. That was on one of the comments that we got off the I've never seen that before.

SPEAKER_00 17:22

No, me.

SPEAKER_04 17:23

But I think I think you're absolutely right, Kay. It's it's one of the biggest problems. Yes, communication is definitely one, but I think also that those unclear expectations or those assumptions, like we're thinking they understand our side of the story, or they know what we're what's happening to us in the day. And we often make that assumption that we understand what's happening to them in the day. But if you've never been in the truck and been on the job sites and that, I think it's really hard for you to be realistically the same. Do you know what I mean? You would you would have to try and understand it. So, what about the biggest mistakes couples make when there's no clear roles, Kay? That's when everybody's does everything. Well. Or one person does it, or one person feels like they're doing everything.

SPEAKER_02 18:08

I suppose there's no accountability if that if that's what's if there's no clear roles, yeah. There's also no accountability for something being done. So things might not get done, or one person might think the other person's doing it. Yeah. And then some things just don't get done because there's an assumption again. Then you've got an immediate uh reaction, an immediate thing to argue about, yeah. To be upset about.

SPEAKER_04 18:32

So I think it's important then that that we spoke before that roles, like who owns each role? And it'd probably be quite good to write that down. Like even if you had a whiteboard, write down the roles on the board and just go, who does this? Well, I'm not that good at this. Maybe we should get somebody to help us. I'm just thinking admin bookkeepers, maybe a quoting.

unknown 18:51

Yeah, possibly.

SPEAKER_04 18:53

Yeah. And then also maybe like if you if you need a yeah, like someone else there to quote, or you could have someone else, like a supervisor or a project manager to help you if your business is big enough. Yep. That thing. Yep. I know talking about business 24-7. Big I do, yes. Now I do know Jim and I have have done that in the past, especially when things are going really badly, we have, and it's been super stressful. But it it is, I have an office that's not at home. And I love that because that means I I when I'm at home, I don't really want to talk about work unless there's a real major problem. So I feel like that could be if that's possible, or I often, when I open the door, it's like take you, I leave work at the door, and then when I go to work, it's like I pick up my work and I go back, and I'd really try and differentiate my life like that. Because otherwise it's bad for my own work life balance. I never do that. Oh, can you? No, I learned to do that. I think I had to learn how to do that for my own bloody self.

SPEAKER_02 19:58

I mean, the only reason I don't talk about work is my husband won't talk to me about my work anyway, so I don't have a choice.

SPEAKER_01 20:04

Didn't you feel a bit neglected by that? Did you want to talk to him about yes, I did. Yes, I did. So, how did that make you feel?

SPEAKER_02 20:11

Neglected? Yeah. No, I've I've got used to it. I suppose the way I got over it, I have a lot of business associates. Yes, such as Crystal Petzer, who I talk to about my business. We've been talking for a long time now. So that's I suppose that's an option for people. If if you you still want to talk about the business some more, and if maybe you have a partner who doesn't work in the business, yeah, who isn't interested in the business, then you can go to network meetings, talk to other business owners, or get yourself a business coach and and talk to them. Yeah, business coaches are good for that. I used to talk to my dad a lot. I talked to my hairdresser, did you? Not so much about it. Not so much about business. When you used to talk to your your personal trainer as well. I used to talk to my personal trainer. My personal trainer, I became his bookkeeper. Yeah. I used to work in corporate and I was very unhappy. And I he was very instrumental in me starting out on my own as a bookkeeper. And I he was my first client. So yeah, but he knew he knew. He followed your journey all the way through leaving. He followed my journey, so yes.

SPEAKER_04 21:25

Yeah, well, there you go. So you never know where that the where that listener is or that that person you can share things with, or that you you or you feel like you've been heard. Yes. I think that's impossible.

SPEAKER_02 21:35

I suppose something we should say here, although we don't know a lot about it, is that people really if people really are struggling to the point where they're feeling very miserable and upset, there are organizations that you can reach out to. I'm thinking beyond blue. Oh yeah. Those people. Don't hesitate to reach out if you need to reach out. Don't wait.

SPEAKER_04 21:57

I think also just communicating that can we not talk about business in a nice way though, instead of we're always talking about business. Yeah. I think also just to say, can we not all have a rule that you both agree to that can we just after 5 p.m. There's we we come. We've been talking a lot about the different roles and all of that stuff, but I just thought I'd share another story that I've got here. So this person was saying, I if you work with your husband full time, is it my business, is it his business, or is it our business? And if you come from a different career and you've given you or you might have a degree or like a teacher or a nurse or anything really to support and work for the now family business, and and just say they've taken it over, well, this particular person I know took it over from a family business, so it's got passed down. They now have children, and the business is now their livelihood, right? Or her livelihood. And secondly, if your husband makes 300k plus purchases without discussing it with you, what's your opinion? You know, it's he could be saying it's my money, my choice, and not discussing that with you. So that can really make you feel quite alienated and alone, or it could be the other way, it could work the other way as well. And maybe you start to feel a little upset and he might start to feel like you're being ungrateful. And you could feel invisible sometimes. And you could you could also feel invisible.

SPEAKER_02 23:28

Do you think it some of this depends on the personalities of the oh without a doubt?

SPEAKER_04 23:33

I I really feel maybe that sometimes some partners should not work together.

SPEAKER_02 23:39

Yes.

SPEAKER_04 23:40

I just feel that maybe Mark for you kind of knows that. But I know my mum and dad always worked together. My grandparents had a had a business as well, and they work together. So I come from a family where it was normal, and maybe that kind of helped me, but but I also saw the fights and I also saw the the how they worked it out and and matured through it. But I I just wonder whether, yeah. I mean, it's a it's a great question. Is it is it my business or I think where I would say Jim and I equal partners, so even on the franchise agreement with Hira Hubby and that we are both listed on there, so it's both of us, right? Isn't it?

SPEAKER_02 24:19

That's another thing, isn't it? Yeah. What does the paperwork look like? Yeah, I think that's the most important thing. You get the paperwork so that it's yeah your business, both of you. Both of us. I bet with loads of businesses that's not the case. No, I don't think it is.

SPEAKER_04 24:33

And you know what else a lot of business owners do as well? They will actually their wife they they may put they may pay wages to their wife as another way of getting money out of the business, even though she doesn't receive it. So it could just be and that that could be problematic if you separate or whatever. You you've been on the book getting those wages, but you actually never saw one cent of that type of thing. It goes into the the the shared family money, but I guess it's it doesn't feel like you've earned it. You know what I mean? It's it's more like a convenience. So I I feel yeah, you're right. I think what have a chat with with whoever if it's a business that you they've had for a long time, it how do you how do you become a partner in that business then? And then it's and then if something happens and you get divorced, right? Just say, or somebody does, or something, then at least you can continue running that business or ownership of it. Or my I know of one friend that when her and her husband split up, she ended up taking over the business and he went on and found a different business altogether. Yeah, and she had she knew how to run it, and so that helped her earn an income and he kept the house and she took the business. Yeah, so I feel like that's not there, there are different ways to do it, but I think it's definitely these conversations. It's a bit like if you go to a partnership with a business, a K. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 25:55

What do you think? It's the same thing often, isn't it? You you see people who go into business together, not husband and wife, but they don't have an agreement. They don't have an agreement either. Oh gosh, I've seen a few of those, haven't we?

SPEAKER_04 26:07

I've seen some really ugly ones over the years. Definitely with clients who have taken on a partner and they've they've kind of didn't do the paperwork right. There was no everything a handshake and a and a great conversation, but nothing was put down on paper. And it's it just ends up in massive tears and massive mess. And one always feels like they well, they both feel like they've both been ripped off and they and it ruins really good friendships, you know. I'm very nervous of that.

SPEAKER_02 26:35

Go back to the people who shouldn't be in business together. Maybe stick to your own career. If if it was me, I'd stick to my career. Because I'm apart from one thing I like is I like to be liked, I'm also very selfish.

SPEAKER_01 26:50

Very selfish, okay.

SPEAKER_02 26:51

And I know, which is why I don't have any kids. Yeah. It's not the main reason, but I did it's one of the reasons.

SPEAKER_04 26:57

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 26:57

Okay.

SPEAKER_04 26:58

You just want to have your life. I mean, my life. A lot of people are making that decision.

SPEAKER_02 27:01

It's my money.

SPEAKER_04 27:02

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, I want to do what I want. Yeah, exactly. Well, I was a bit the same, okay. And that's probably why I went into business really early as well. I wanted it to be, I didn't want to be in a situation where I wasn't in control of my own money. I watched many women of my mum's generation, and I think people forget that women have very little rights. And I watched a lot of people when I was growing up where they got divorced and they had not one cent. They didn't even know where the bank account was. In fact, I think Jim's mum doesn't even have access to the bank account. But but I always said to myself that I do not want that. And I but I think if you have a career that you're happy with, you may not enjoy being an admin person. Like it's a very big change. And know your partner really well. How happy is your partner gonna come take that you're gonna suggest things that he should be doing? Is he gonna be happy with that? No. Some some might, but some may not. So if if you you gotta try, I think it's it sounds very romantic and sounds very nice, but I think it's a real conversation to have. And if you are caught in that situation, what do you think they should do, Kay? I'm not sure.

SPEAKER_02 28:13

I'm not sure.

SPEAKER_04 28:14

I know it's a decision for them to make, isn't it?

SPEAKER_02 28:17

Yeah, you can't make it for them.

SPEAKER_04 28:19

Yeah, yeah. I suppose every single one of these situations is different.

SPEAKER_02 28:22

Every situation is different. I think the bottom line is think think of yourself. Yeah. Think of yourself. I know I'm said I'm selfish, but uh think of yourself first.

SPEAKER_03 28:35

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 28:36

Because at the end of the day.

SPEAKER_04 28:41

I think there's a uh uh for women, we also tend to we've got that that nurturing hormone in us, you know, and sometimes we just go, that sounds really good, I'll just go with it, you know, or it's for the for the greater good of the family, or I can get to spend more time with the kids, or I get to you. It it's that but for most business owners, when it the grass is always green on the other side. So people who are in corporate jobs or or office jobs where they're just working for someone, they think business owners are running around doing having all the time in the world, and then business owners look at those people and they go, Oh my god, they could just go for lunch whenever they want, they've got a set day at a time, they don't have to work weekends.

SPEAKER_02 29:22

I think a lot of this depends on the success of the business.

SPEAKER_04 29:27

I think you're absolutely right. I think the worse the business is, the harder the conversations and the fighting would be. Yeah, exactly. I think if there if there was lots of money in the business, that you there probably wouldn't be that many arguments. No, I don't think so.

SPEAKER_02 29:40

And you wouldn't feel so bad, whoever it is doing the admin, only doing the admin when you could be doing your big corporate job.

SPEAKER_03 29:48

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 29:49

If you're earning lots of money.

SPEAKER_03 29:51

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 29:52

But if you more often than not, you're not earning lots of money.

SPEAKER_04 29:56

I think something that needs to be said for on both sides of the fence here is that what if you like the role and your husband hates the business? That can also be That could be a scenario. He could just be burnt out and hates it. Yep. Never wanted to do that trade in the first place, was forced into it, done it for 20 years, he wants out.

SPEAKER_02 30:16

Yep.

SPEAKER_04 30:16

Meanwhile, you like the business now. Yep, yep.

SPEAKER_02 30:19

Something I was just looking at on my piece of paper, I've got is different different priorities. One person wants growth, one wants stability, and neither of them is wrong. So that's where the husband and the wife want different things. Yeah. Or you know, yeah. That can cause major issues. Major, major issues. Sorry to upset you with your stories, Crystal. Are you getting cold, Kate? Do you want me to do anything? I'm actually okay. You're okay.

SPEAKER_04 30:47

I'm actually fine. Yeah. And I can never tell with this air con in here. So so what so I know we talked about the practical tips, so it's it's if we just run through those quickly again, it's it's defining the roles and I'll probably a little more detail around that. Who owns what? Who does the scheduling, who does the entering the jobs and the system, who does the reconciling, who pays the staff, who pays the suppliers, who does the quotes, who hires the staff, who does this, manages the staff? Finance, you know, who manages that? Yep. Marketing? Yep. Who does that? Sales. Who's keeping a track of where the sales are coming in from? And this is even just a normal partner in a business. Who's managing the sales leads? How are the sales tracking? Do we need new? Are we relying on one big client? Yeah for all your work, or do we have enough clients? Customers' technology, do we need new tech? With all this AI now, you you're gonna have to think about technology. How do you approach that subject? And and also to make sure that there's no overlap as well. And I feel like that that just sorting that out might help people a lot. That weekly business meeting we've talked about, not while cooking dinner.

SPEAKER_02 31:58

Definitely not while cooking dinner or lunch or whatever. To be honest, we don't we don't cook dinner much lately. We've got light and easy, and I have food for fitness, so we just stick them in the microphone. But to be honest, to be honest, it saves time. Yeah. If you want to save yourself some time.

SPEAKER_04 32:17

Yeah. That's exactly right.

SPEAKER_02 32:19

It saves it saves on the shopping time. It's probably cheaping. I think in the long run, I think it is cheaper. Stuff doesn't go off in the fridge. You don't eat too much. Yeah. You can't eat too much because you've got that one portion and that's it. That's it, yeah. So yeah. Not while cooking dinner, not in the Ute, not definitely not lying in bed. Yeah, so schedule schedule it, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 32:39

Yeah, schedule it. Yep, yep. Yep. You say schedule or schedule. I say schedule. Schedule. I say schedule.

SPEAKER_01 32:47

It's tomato tomato. It's a bit like project. Project. Yeah, project. I never heard the same words like this before.

SPEAKER_02 32:58

That's funny. Yeah, it's it depends on. Garage. I would say I I I do say garage now. I would say garage at one time when I would have said it's like grass and grass. We are digressing terribly here.

SPEAKER_04 33:13

That's funny. Okay, so and then this is something we haven't spoken about, is res respect each other's expertise. Absolutely. And I feel like that could be where some of those conversation if you can't be respected, if you can't respect your husband's expertise, and if he can't respect your expertise, then maybe you shouldn't be working together. I think that's going to end up being my takeout today. Yeah. Because I feel if you don't respect what they do, then how the hell does that work? Don't you think? Yes. So I guess the person in the office sees things differently.

SPEAKER_02 33:49

They certainly do. They certainly will. Yeah. And often the person in the office doesn't appreciate what the person on the tools is doing.

SPEAKER_04 33:58

And the craziness of the days that happen. Yes. And the person on site sees problems differently as well. They're having to fight fires every day, all day. Whereas in the office you're probably fighting some fires, but there might be different kinds of things. They would be different, yes. And I think both perspectives matter. They do. I think it's really important to I feel like respecting each other is such a key for any good marriage, anyway.

SPEAKER_02 34:21

Not that I'm a marriage counselor, but I think it's a key for any any relationship.

SPEAKER_04 34:25

Whether it's a partner, not a family member, but even if it's just a partner in a business, respecting them for their expertise as well would be really important. I know we talk about celebrating wins with me, the champagne moments, we've talked talked about those. But I feel like in a business, we often we ignore that. So I'm wondering whether couples should celebrate those wins that they have as well, because they might have just achieved a huge contract.

SPEAKER_02 34:50

Yep.

SPEAKER_04 34:51

They might have been under a lot of pressure to get this new business up and running, like expensive equipment or having to put on a lot of stuff or trying to get this big contract. So celebrate those wins when you get them. Don't you reckon? And if you have your best financial year ever, like I've spoken to a few clients and they've just had their best financial years ever, and they've gone, and I go, hang on, hang on, hang on. Can we just celebrate you for a minute? Can we just recognize that hard work that you've put in to get there? Because it's been a journey to get that. Who did a great job?

SPEAKER_02 35:24

Yep. Did you do a great job? It's also celebrating your staff, I I would say too, not just the two of you. Yeah. And what are you proud of? About what you're proud of. Yeah. Not just what you're not you don't like or what's gone wrong, but what are you actually proud of? I like that. The fact that you have built a just built a business is something to be proud of. Yeah. But yeah, think stop and think. Stop and think, yeah.

SPEAKER_04 35:51

Stop and think. I think that's and I I think that that celebrating the wins is so important. And I think that's something in life as well. To to celebrate the wins or what you're grateful for as well can sometimes do.

SPEAKER_02 36:05

What you're grateful for. Something I never I don't stop to think about what I'm grateful for often enough. Yeah. That should be added to your list of things at the alternative board, not just the champagne moment. Yeah. But what you're grateful for. What you're grateful for.

SPEAKER_04 36:22

I think just even in yourself, if you're feeling a bit overworked or underappreciated or you're feeling a bit invisible, just just go back to what you're grateful for. And they they do recommend that you do think about that at least once a day and list at least four or five items. Yeah. And it's just a very grounding thing because it can we can live in the future or live in the past, but it's quite nice to be in the present and just to remind ourselves of what's what we're grateful for, what's working.

SPEAKER_02 36:51

Take time out for yourself. Both of you. Do the things that you both enjoy together and separately. Yep. So don't just think about business all the time. Yeah. Do go and do those things with the kids. Yeah. With your weekend off.

SPEAKER_03 37:10

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 37:11

That will recharge the battery.

SPEAKER_04 37:13

Date night? Where you don't have to talk about work or anything and you both just go have a date night. That's that can be a really nice thing to do. So yeah. So, okay, as a question for you, what's one thing every couple should stop doing?

SPEAKER_02 37:34

Have you got a cheat sheet? Keep everything in their head.

SPEAKER_03 37:39

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 37:42

Yeah. Yeah. I think I think sharing something and and not keeping it all in your head is is a huge part of it as well. So sharing it with someone else or or with with your partner and everything. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 37:55

So what's one thing they should start doing, Crystal? Well, I I would say start talking, start communicating.

SPEAKER_04 38:04

Business meetings. Business meetings. Yeah. 100%. I think it sounds boring. It sounds, oh God, do we have to do this? I can't tell you how important they are in a business. It's ridiculous. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 38:15

And what's the best advice you've ever received? Me.

SPEAKER_04 38:20

I think the best advice I ever received when I started out, especially if we go back to like working as a couple, is defining our roles. That for me, that was, and for me in particular, was leaving work at the door. Because I can take work where I I just take it with me wherever I go. So I had to really learn to switch off. Otherwise, I'm not I'm not present. I'm just ruminating and thinking about things about work and then doing things without and probably could be a bit grumpy and short if I'm if I'm pondering things for too long.

SPEAKER_02 38:51

I think we all can be.

SPEAKER_04 38:52

Yes. Grumpy and short. Yes. I know I knew what my so I think I had to learn as well to leave work at the door, very much so.

SPEAKER_02 39:00

I think something else that can help is talking about grumpy and short, is learning to express yourself maybe in a different manner. Yes. Not not don't be grumpy and short. Yeah. Rephrase. Rephrase. What what you want to say or think about it before you say it.

SPEAKER_03 39:20

Yeah.

unknown 39:21

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 39:21

There was a really really good book. And it's a very old book, but it's still relevant today. It's probably a little little old, but but it's still really I I just reread it a couple of months ago. And that was Men Are From Mars and Women Are From Venus. And I've forgotten the author's name right now, but there's not too many books called that.

SPEAKER_02 39:41

No.

SPEAKER_04 39:41

And that was a really interesting book on how men behave and how women behave and how we communicate. And we have very different styles. And women are connected to everything and are aware of everything because we have to be. Whereas men kind of can compartilize everything in their head and they actually have a little box that has nothing in it. For us women, we we don't even know what a box with nothing in it looks like. We would dream of that, but we don't have one of those. And they can actually just sit there and do nothing and think about nothing, and they know how to do that. And I think they have to learn they nature gave them that.

SPEAKER_02 40:16

Okay.

SPEAKER_04 40:17

So for us to understand sometimes, and they talk about the man cave and how a man will retreat to the back of his cave. They do a beautiful example and stories around that, and how I know Jim's very much like that, he'll disappear into his man cave, and I know my one son's very much that way. They don't like to talk about it. And so they keep it, they they just keep it to themselves and they don't talk about it. And the more us women go, we want to talk about it, we like talking about it, we just want to talk about it. And I'm a talker, so I don't need to talk things out. But if I don't talk about it, I it it really bothers me. Whereas they don't want it bothers them to have to talk about it.

SPEAKER_02 40:54

But it bothers me that they don't want to talk about it. Exactly.

SPEAKER_04 40:57

But I think we have to learn to respect that that people have different ways of dealing with things, and sometimes being that over-communicator, find someone else to talk to, but don't don't don't expect them to be that person for you. And I think that can sometimes help as well, just that acknowledgement as well.

SPEAKER_02 41:13

So, what's the biggest lesson working with c couples that you've oh geez?

SPEAKER_04 41:18

The biggest thing, biggest lesson that I've learned. I think with couples, and I've worked with quite a few couples, I really do think defining your roles, defining if you are in the business, if is it my business, your business, or our business? Because if it's never your, our business, then decisions have to be made. Yeah, yeah. Or or know your role and be happy with it. But if you're not happy with it, then I would say it's never gonna get any better for you and get and it's it's that's it works the same as as just being a partner in a business. It's basically like another marriage. And if you can't, you have to be able to talk about things and discuss things and sort things out, and it's it's no different to that either.

SPEAKER_02 42:05

So you've been listening to Kay and Crystals More Business Sorted. So working with your partner can be one of the most rewarding experiences you'll ever have. Yes, or one of the most frustrating. Yes. The difference usually isn't love. No, it's systems, it's communication, it's clear roles. So what's your takeout this week, Crystal?

SPEAKER_04 42:31

I think my takeout was definitely don't make assumptions. I feel like I probably have done that. Like there have been times where I probably made assumptions about Jim. I've also expected him to be better at other things that I know he's not good at. And I've made assumptions that he is better at that, and it's probably and it's backfired, and so we've had to work through that. It hasn't all been roses for us either, but I think but we have had a fantastic 35 years of working together, and to be honest, our relationship is as strong as ever. But I feel like that assumptions and being very clear who does what for me is my takeout.

SPEAKER_02 43:11

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 43:11

What's yours, Kay?

SPEAKER_02 43:12

I think treat each other like business partners during the day. Yep. And partners in life when the workday ends.

SPEAKER_03 43:21

Oh, that's a big switch.

SPEAKER_02 43:22

Yep. So you'll be surprised how much better both your business and your relationship can become. Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 43:30

Because I think you've got to remember you're in a relationship as well. It's not just a business relationship, and I think that can get very blurred.

SPEAKER_02 43:36

Yep. And we would love some feedback and see you next week.

SPEAKER_04 43:40

See you then.