Embracing Sensitivity as a Man: Andrew on Spirituality, HeartMath, and Deleting Social Media

Beyond the labels, Andrew is empathetic, curious, and driven. In this episode, he opens up about what it means to embrace sensitivity as a man in today’s world and how his experience with HeartMath meditation has led to greater spiritual awareness. We also discuss social media as a dangerous highlight reel, deleting Instagram, AI bots in podcasting, and more! 

Connect on LinkedIn: Andrew Siegel 

Transcript

Rachel 0:00

Hello everyone and welcome to Unmasked. so glad you're here. Before I introduce our incredible guest today. We're gonna take a few minutes to pause right where you are, just focus on your breath. Maybe notice any sounds in the background. Is there anything that you can smell? Take one or two more breaths and join us when you're ready. Andrew,

Andrew & Rachel 0:51

welcome. Hello. Hello. How are you feeling today? Are you excited? I'm very excited to be here. Excited to experience the podcast version of Rachel. Hopefully not too different. Hopefully just authentic as ever. Right, Andrew and I are in the same master's program, which is trending on this podcast thus far. Spirit, mind, body, master's degree in psychology. we met over the summer. Mm-hmm. And I'm just really grateful that you're here. Excited to have a chat. You've taught me a lot already. Mm-hmm. And excited for you to share wisdom and teach everyone else out there in the world that might learn learn something from you. Let's do it.

Rachel 1:32

As three words that Andrew would use to describe himself are empathetic, curious, and driven care to expand on those words.

Andrew 1:44

Oh, Oh man. well, I'd be surprised if every other guest you've had on this podcast so far wasn't empathetic. We're all in a, a psychology program. I'm very curious. I can talk about, very niche topics for forever. and I'm driven I'm not quite sure what towards, but I'm, I feel like I'm going somewhere and I'm excited and I'm motivated and yeah.

Rachel 2:10

Well before we dive into those further, we were chatting just before we went on video about our water bottles. Yeah. I think it's funny to consider if these are a good representation of our personalities. What would you say about your, your black water bottle over there? It's quite reserved. a little bit in the background, which I think resonates to a degree, but trying to get outta my comfort zone coming out here. And clearly we have the podcast host, uh, colorful. Yeah. You know, you can borrow mine if you're feeling, maybe we can switch for morale boost. I know how sanitary that would be, but we could wash 'em up. Okay. Okay. Well consider your water bottle folks and what you're putting out into the world. Surprisingly, I think only one guest so far has said empathetic. Oh, who was it? Erica. Ah, okay. Mm-hmm. But I agree with you. I see that I would say many people in our program, psychology and Healthcare, you gotta have a slice of empathy. Yeah. You

Andrew & Rachel 3:13

were one of few guys in the Spirit Mind Body program. Yes. Will you tell me what that's been like for you and what it was like when you first arrived? Well, I wasn't surprised. I don't know if I've thought about it too much. I think sometimes, the emotional sensitive part of me really shines in this program, and then sometimes I just want to be a bro and, um, I have to get that elsewhere. Although there are a few girls in this program who certainly, we can relate in that way. So you were expecting it? I think so. I think what the ratio of, women to men in the field of psychology, I think is something like three to one might be four to one. That makes sense. I think teachers in college in general, that ratio sounds pretty accurate. Yeah. Education as well. Yep.

Rachel 4:01

So where are you going? You say you're driven, you're heading somewhere. What do you see? What are your interests?

Andrew 4:09

I'm sure you've told the viewers we're in a spiritual psychology program, which I actually only recently got interested into spirituality a couple years ago. but it's been a quick lift off I'm deeply into meditation. I'm into intuition and the idea of having, a source of intelligence beyond the mind. I've struggled with overthinking my whole life and it's created a lot of unnecessary anxiety and, mental fog and so the idea of being able to tap into something else to help me make life's decisions is really relieving and interesting to me so, that's a little sub-genre of spirituality that I'm into. And then I guess, um, more broadly, I right now think perhaps I wanna do a PhD in clinical psychology, but, in the spirit of our program, in the spirit of awakened awareness, if that's been talked about before, shout out to Dr. Lisa Miller. I'm trying to be open and see where this takes me. Maybe I'll do a podcast. Who knows, you know.

Rachel 5:06

Would you be open to describing in your own words what awakened awareness is for those who might not know?

Andrew 5:16

I think it'd be helpful maybe to talk about what achieving awareness is first. achieving awareness is the mind's way of, moving through the world, we've internalized certain expectations from society or our parents or our friends, or things we see in the movies. for example, in the case of men, we're certainly drawn to fulfilling a certain role. awakened awareness in that case would be willing to listen to our heart, regardless of what the expectations are or, even a willingness not to know how it's gonna get done or, what the end result will be and following a feeling, rather than a, abstract goal or Yeah. It seems as though, from my understanding as well, to add on to what you described is the awakened awareness feels more of that feminine energy of the intuition, the feeling tapping into emotion, and the achieving awareness is more of that masculine energy of the logical the go, go, go. Yeah, and we all have both. There's a balance, right? It's been really.

Rachel 6:25

enlightening to embrace the awakened awareness, especially in New York City. Do you think this was modeled for you at all in your life?

Andrew 6:35

that's an interesting question. I think that there's tons of, hints here and there at, about the idea of awakened awareness. I think follow your dreams falls under that category follow your heart. That's not a new phrase. I think in a lot of, movies and TV shows, maybe even songs there's ideas about following your heart and there's stuff like even movies like The Matrix, which I know it's not a direct comparison, but there's this idea of the blue pill and the red pill. and I guess I look at the red pill as being willing to like deviate from the norm and do what you think is right and maybe what you think is right is not so easy to do,

Andrew & Rach Audio 7:13

The way I see it is you

Andrew & Rachel 7:15

and some of the other guys in our program are really carving a path for men in society to embrace this sensitive, emotional heart forward life. I think has a stigma.

Rachel 7:30

Sure. And has created a lot of judgment, especially for men and maybe contributing to mental health difficulties and expectations and pressure. Would

Andrew & Rachel 7:41

you say that's accurate? Yeah, sure. I don't think it's a problem that's, exclusive to men, but I think, I still struggle with it myself where I wonder, even, stuff like relationship. Roles. and how in a lot of, circles there's this belief that men should be the total provider and, be a breadwinner and, it's about money and, and status. yeah, I think it's a big problem. It creates a lot of unnecessary anxiety. if you're purely following, what someone else thinks you should do. it causes a lot of suffering living someone else's narrative. Yeah. It ain't the way, but it's hard. I have been there as well. You mentioned meditation, I know you've been in HeartMath, certification Could you share a little bit about that and how it's impacted your life?

Andrew 8:35

I feel like it's impacted, all facets of my life. Relationships, the way I interact with myself, the way I talk to myself, creates a lot of awareness. Sue Haas, which I think was your last guest, right? He's been one of the last. Okay, I'll credit him with this. I don't know if this is his original quote, but it's this idea that meditation is like peeling back layers of an onion, layers of yourself. And I firmly, I, I feel that, it's a way of getting to know yourself more deeply so that you can be more authentic and really understand what's going on in your life. if you want to get psychological, you can understand your thought patterns more deeply you might catch yourself saying a negative thought, after a situation and be like, oh, I've been meditating and now I have this awareness. And you can slowly with that awareness, build up and change your habits and, yeah.

Andrew & Rachel 9:33

Going back to awakened awareness And meditation. Tied into that is presence. finding presence is a pathway to awakened awareness that is found through a tool like meditation. Will you explain what the differences between, HeartMath meditation versus a different one? I guess meditation can mean a lot of different things. I think some people would consider, mindful eating a form of meditation or, even basketball or there's these ideas of, thinking about things is a form of meditation. they say meditate on that, you know? Um, HeartMath is this idea of building heart, brain coherence. to put it simply, the scientists at HeartMath have discovered that,

Andrew 10:23

There is a strong connection between your heart and your brain. For example, the heart sends more information to the brain than the brain does to the heart. The heart has neurons. So HeartMath actually says the heart has a heart brain. HeartMath proposes this idea of coherence, which is, a rhythmic synergy between your heart, your brain, and your nervous system. And that through research has, it's shown, that this state of coherence is associated with greater wellbeing, lower stress, better performance. I I know Olympians use it. and so all of the HeartMath techniques are meant to foster a state of coherence. Incredibly articulated. Thank you for sharing that. I know what HeartMath is because I've experienced a few of the meditation in classes. Shout out to Dr. Dan Tolo. When we were meditating with him, it was always act as though you're breathing in and out of your heart. Is that the premise

Rachel 11:26

If you were to summarize it is

Andrew 11:28

it is? Yeah. that's what HeartMath calls, heart-focused breathing, and I do it all the time. I was doing it before I came in here. I try to do it while maintaining conversations. but HeartMath actually has a lot more techniques. It's all centered around this idea of building coherence. but

Andrew & Rachel 11:46

I'm curious what your experience has been with the heart focus breathing. what does it feel like when you're able to stay in the heart and feel the breath go in and out? Is there anything that's different from maybe just deep breathing or different from your other meditation practices? I would love to try more of it because the only time I have done a HeartMath type meditation has been in a class setting at the beginning to ground ourselves, and it's always been focus on your breath, focus your attention on your heart, and see if you can send your breath in and out of your heart.

Rachel 12:22

I I would say meditation for me always is more effective when I'm focusing my breath somewhere. I'm curious to try some of the other techniques that you mentioned and, and hopefully other people will be curious as well to look into it. I, would suggest anybody who's in the wellness field who's interested in coaching to check out HeartMath Building Personal Resilience Program, or even if you just wanna learn it yourself, I think it's totally worth it and you can learn a lot of, really amazing techniques that are very creative and have helped me a lot. I will say, I think meditation sometimes has a stigma related to spirituality and religion, I would use the word mindfulness as well for people to make it more generalizable. Is that a word? Generalizable? Yeah. Okay. That's like a big clinical psychology term. Good. Or that's like a research term, like Yeah, clearly haven't been doing my research. I don't know. Rachel seems like that awakened awareness, PhD is a good future. It could very well be This is where your curiosity comes out, it seems, is through research as well.

Andrew 13:28

Well, yeah. I mean, don't you want to just understand how the world works? I guess I've always just wanted to know the answer. Why are we here? is there some cool metaphysical process going on when I'm meditating? are our souls somehow connecting Right now in this room? We got Abu work in the sound booth. Like three of us are just, in some sort of harmonious connection. yeah. Shout out to a boo right now. Just behind the scenes killing it.

Rachel 13:56

Okay. What is something. That not a lot of people know about you? Oh, man.

Andrew 14:04

I feel like I'm an open book. I love basketball. I used to bartend. I feel like I should have some crazy, like one of those things you should say in a two truths and a lie type of thing. But I don't know if I have anything. we can roll with basketball I mean, all right sports heck, that's my language. Let's do it. You grew up playing basketball. And then I found out recently that you played a semester in Spain. Yeah, that sounds way cooler than it was. It's not like I was playing for some, duke equivalent in Spain and they recruited me while I was over in Michigan and were like, Hey, we need you to come to Spain. but yeah, I spent a semester studying in Madrid and I was at a small, university and they had a tryout and it was cool. So now I tell people I was a college athlete and that, yeah, my ego feels nice and warm when I say that I'm happy for you.

Rachel 14:57

So you grew up only playing basketball until what age? meaning like, when did I stop playing? Right. Well, I never really played well. I guess I played organized basketball, but I never played in high school or anything like that. it was always just for fun and, with friends and, I recently stopped playing a few months ago just 'cause it's hard to keep up with your body in grad school. I think that's just an excuse I really gotta get back to it. So maybe my awakened awareness is telling me, I should start hooping again, Sounds like a dream to play basketball in Madrid and a good ego boost for sure. It was fun, but I don't know. I mean, you were a collegiate athlete, you were a, come on. what was that like? I mean, that could be a whole episode that was Incredible challenging character building for sure you are put through the ringer, I would say. Mm-hmm. It's a high pressure environment where you're expected to perform at your best 24 7, no if ands or buts, which takes takes a toll. However, I wouldn't take it back. I just hope that I can help other athletes know that they're worthy, know that they are human beyond, whether they're sitting the bench scoring all their goals, whatever the amount of playing time is. That is my goal partly with podcast and other mentoring services that I'm offering is to bring to light identity as more than being an athlete. Yeah. That sort of hints at a broader theme, the idea of, identifying with what you do as a source of worth. I know that I struggle with that too. I'm sure a lot of people do. So even, in the world of sports too, Is there a label that comes to mind when you say that?

Andrew 16:50

for me? even the stage of life I'm in right now, I think, I see myself as a future psychologist or sometimes I fantasize about, oh, maybe I'll publish some books or, Being known for something. and I can even catch myself getting caught up in that narrative and feel my ego sort of investing a lot of energy into that And, so it's hard, it's a dance for sure. aside from achievements, school life so far

Andrew & Rachel 17:20

What would you say you're most proud of related to your character and personality? related to my, character and personality. So not something I've done, but more like Traits. Traits, who you are, how you show up in the world. interesting. I think my sensitivity. Which is something I used to have a lot of judgment towards. I think a lot of, probably a lot of men who are, lean on the sensitive side, doesn't really fit the stereotype but I, you know, through meeting other friends who relate and realizing that sensitivity is a strength, it feels good to be in tune with others. Was there a point in time You can remember that you fully embraced your sensitivity? That I fully embraced it. Maybe you still haven't. I don't know. I guess what I was thinking about was I I think we all have, well, I won't speak for other people, but my sensitivity was always there and there were moments that I was proud of it my whole life but I think the question would really be, when was the time that you fully accepted it and let go of the judgment around it? For a long time, I felt like I had to fit in with being a tough guy and, playing the male role. I think it's like meeting other guys who are like that and modeling in a way that it's okay that it's socially acceptable, that, but I think it's a gradual process too. I still probably haven't fully gotten to a place where I'm just all completely without judgment towards that part of myself. So

Rachel 18:55

So a daily grind. Yeah. Yeah. We're all working on it. You're pursuing psychology, potentially a PhD, doing this master's program, and you've mentioned that that you're driven. What would you say is driving you towards this goal? There's always something that's sparking a fire that makes someone wanna be in an empathetic field like psychology. I think that there's different driving forces. for example, I did one of those career quizzes at some point,

Andrew 19:29

and and it was combination of what you're good at, what you'd find interesting. I think there's a third component and psychologists came up. So those do really work. Yeah. What's yours? Was it your, I have no idea. I feel like I would always type in, you know what, I like my interests, and then it would get to the, please type in your email. And I would be like, oh, I gotta give my email. And I would just back out, put in the card information and yeah. Sorry I took your moment away. No, that was great. That was good comedic timing. Yeah, I, I think there's different driving forces that, I feel like I'm getting too philosophical, but I think for me, in my experience, there's always, different pools of motivation that I can root myself in. So there's certainly a piece where there's an egoic drive where I like the feeling of achieving things going with the theme of this podcast, maybe it's connected to a sense of identity or self-worth. that's definitely still there but also hinting back at awakened awareness, a higher purpose wanting to help people, wanting to learn more about myself. I love deep diving about certain topics, so if I could spend six years studying something I was super interested in, I feel like I'm just a boy in my room, going on YouTube all day, just watching video it sounds great. so understandable. Yeah. I I think a lot of people love to be in their room once

Andrew & Rachel 20:56

on YouTube, social media. Maybe I exposed myself a little bit. You mentioned earlier that you deleted Instagram though recently, which I actually did too. Oh, congratulations. Thank you. It is, how are you gonna market this podcast? I have to redownload it, unfortunately. Okay. But I'm gonna create a new Instagram page. Oh, nice. Okay. Why did you delete Instagram and how are you doing? I'm doing all right. I'm doing all right. my time with social media ended long before I deleted it, I'm still on social media, but I have always been careful about it. just knowing the research on, how social media gets you addicted to your phone. Yeah, but what happened is, grad school is stressful and I kept Instagram because I'd have friends who don't live in the US who would message me on Instagram. And so I kept it for that reason. But then I would just start scrolling and it's so easy to, it's such a dopamine hit, I lost control and had to cut the cord, Good for you for recognizing it and taking action. I feel grateful that I never got consumed by TikTok. Another place that would be great to market. We'll see. However, I had it for one month and and I was like, this cannot happen. It is insane how easily I could slip into scrolling for hours. Not to mention Instagram one of the most freeing things about not having the app on my phone has been an elimination of comparison. That's huge. It's huge. Yeah. It's like I don't need to go on Instagram and see what everyone else is doing every day, all day, or who is in what relationship getting married because it's really easy to just be like, oh man, I'm different. They're better than me. Yep. And that's it. So

Andrew & Rach Audio 22:41

So I'm a fan of deleting it. I would say a few people around in my inner circle have definitely done that. It's a good move. It is a good move. The comparison thing is definitely, plus whatever you're seeing on there is not real life, right? it's what people are choosing to put up. So it's, even if you are comparing, which don't, 'cause that's, it's just doesn't work. But, it's not real. there's that saying like, don't compare your insides to someone else's outsides, the highlight reel. Wow. Not to mention I, huh? Tell me. it's funny 'cause I was listening to an AI audio overview by Notebook lm, yesterday on just something I didn't wanna read. And it's like the podcasters in there will do little tidbits like that where they're like, wow, the highlight reel. And I'm like, wow, Rachel, like they, they got you. they've already AI's heard your podcast. Whoa. That is scary. I sound like an AI bot. no. They're cop. They're trying to sound like you, but it doesn't work. It doesn't work.

Andrew & Rachel 23:43

I I still can't believe that notebook, lm you can create a podcast by putting a bunch of research into that. It's unbelievable. What are your thoughts around ai, especially as a grad student?

Andrew 23:56

we have to use it. I don't know if I have a nuance to take. I have no idea what's gonna happen. It's kind of scary how fast it's moving. and I did have a thought like, man, if I did a PhD or even as grad students right now, not only are we having to spend lots of time. Or choosing to spend lots of time engaging with this material and spending a lot of cognitive energy on it but we have to sort of keep up with AI and the tools and there's this feeling in me where it's I need to make sure I'm paying attention. at the end of the day, if you're not, keeping up with the times, then that's a dangerous place to be.

Rachel 24:33

I've been way too resistant to AI for too long. I'm like, this is stripping away creativity. We can't think for ourselves. Dementia is gonna be on the rise. A little bit pessimistic about it, which I think are all valid concerns. Yeah.

Andrew & Rachel 24:47

Yeah. And I'm gonna fall behind if I don't embrace it for what it can do in a positive way. For example, editing this podcast, what on earth would I do without it? I I would spend way more hours than I already do editing podcasts. Yeah. it's a tough one. We're getting near the end already. I know. It goes so fast. One year from now. What do you hope is different about where you are now, your internal space and where you're going? I think it's just being kinder to myself.

Andrew 25:26

To To put it simply, it's interesting, you asked for my three words and I, I, I thought, you know, in the spirit of this podcast, I was gonna put curious, empathetic, and then neurotic. But I was like, you know what, if Rachel's podcast becomes like number one, and then, PhD admissions sees that I put neurotic down for one of my character traits. But I guess what I'm hinting at is that, maybe some inspiration for anybody who's listening is that we all have parts of ourselves that maybe, aren't so easy to accept, or, maybe we have some judgment towards it. personally, I just wanna keep working on, accepting more parts of myself and, Trusting my inherent worth. And yeah. Thank you for being honest and sensitive and open. Before

Rachel 26:12

we fully stop. Will you just briefly tell us why you said neurotic and I'm, I just wanna say I'm so thrilled that you think I'm gonna be like number one in the podcast world. That's a great compliment. We'll see. Maybe one day. you're in SNBI. Come on neurotic though. Yeah. shout out to Dr. Dan Tolo for the second time in this podcast. Because in our positive psychology class last semester, maybe this is what I took away from it, and I misheard him, but I swear he said something along the lines of listen man, we're all in the field of psychology. We're all a little bit neurotic. a lot of people who are drawn to the field of psychology are people who have struggled with mental illness. so I get anxious sometimes Sometimes I get depressed, sometimes I judge other people. I have a neurotic part of myself and,

Andrew 27:01

yeah, I I think a lot of people will find that refreshing to hear. I hope so. I hope I'm not on the hot seat. Is there any easy way that people could connect with you if they so choose? you guys can, hit me up on LinkedIn. It's my first and last name, Andrew Siegel. Thank you, Andrew for being here. Thanks for having me. It's been a joy. Let me know if you ever want to use my water bottle.

Andrew & Rachel 27:30

Oh, Oh, I definitely will. I might just have to order one.

27:34

Thanks everyone. My name's Rachel Peck, and you've been listening to Unmasked.