Feeling Deeply & Letting Go of Labels: Marielle on Grief, Healing & Being Seen

Beyond the labels, Marielle is devoted, loving, and silly. In this episode, we discuss VIA character strengths from positive psychology and what drew Marielle to the Spirit Mind Body Program during a season of grief and misalignment while working in media, including Barstool Sports. Marielle reflects on identity, labels, and spirituality. She shares how deeply she feels, how acupuncture and writing help her process grief, and reads a vulnerable poem about self-hatred, masking, and longing to be seen. The conversation also covers comparison in the twenties, her pageant background, and the sisterhood and community it provided. 

Connect with Marielle on Instagram: @mariellemarlys

Transcript

Rachel 0:00

Welcome back, everyone, to Unmasked. Glad you're here listening. We have A wonderful guest. I'm so excited to introduce you. Before we do that take a moment. and just allow yourself to be, notice your breath. Withhold any judgment, however you're showing up today is perfectly fine. Take one. more intentional inhale and exhale. And then let's get started. Welcome, Marielle. Hi, Rachel. Oh my goodness. This is very surreal. So surreal. And this is exactly what I mean, why you should have a podcast. That grounding, thank you. Your voice is just so soothing. Aw, perfect. I appreciate you and I'm very grateful to have been championed by you throughout this whole process and leading up to the launch of this podcast. It's all You, girl. You've been in my corner even beyond the podcast, many other things too. It's gonna be a joy to share your voice with the world and let other people absorb all of your light I'm honored. Truly honored, devoted, loving, and silly. those are the three words

Marielle 1:30

that describe me the most in no particular order. Being silly is very foundational to who I am as you know, and loving, I think is just a way to be. I always try to like look at the world with through eyes of love and seeing the best in people. and devoted, I would say I'm devoted to whatever the practice is at a given time. So if it's a season of work, I'm devoted to that. If it's study this or if it's my family, just being really intentional about where my energy is going in a given season, and that's always changing. Have you carried these three words with you throughout most of your life? I think loving and silly for sure. Devotion is one that I feel I'm still honing, so it's ever evolving. How do you think these compare to things that you value in your life? I've been really reflecting on this recently, because I value my relationships and my friendships so much, and I feel really devoted to being a good friend and showing up in a way that makes the other person feel seen and valued and heard, and, That's really important to me, and so I think devotion really shows up there, honestly. Mm-hmm. Besides work and study, it's very apparent in my relationships and hopefully within those relationships, there's the element of being loving and silly

Rachel 3:01

silly. It's a good one, and I definitely can see that in you We were talking before this about our character, strengths and humor Which actually we surprisingly haven't talked about on this podcast yet. Character strengths. Oh my gosh. Can you believe it? It's foundational. I guess it all starts in positive psychology. Man. Second time, I'm giving Dan Tomasulo a shout out here. he deserves it. He deserves it. If you're listening, I hope you do at some point, you know we're here for it. Yeah, it's fascinating the amount of research that's been done on character strengths. There's 24. We all have them. To list a few. It might be gratitude, love, kindness, humor, self-regulation. The list goes on. And we carry all of them, but they're ranked differently for each of us. So if anyone's listening and wants to know their strengths, there's a VIA character strength free test out there online. Do it, do it now. It's really fun to learn about yourself. Yeah. And then the idea would be, let's say whatever your top three strengths are how can you use those strengths in your life more frequently? To live a more fulfilling, and joyful life. Mm-hmm. There's been a lot of research to show that people who do that find more success, find more happiness, wellbeing. It's a fun topic that I actually didn't know much about before our master's program. What brought you to the Spirit Mind Body Program? Will you tell us? similarly to a lot of people in the program, I felt a calling for something more, something deeper. At the time, I was working and living, in a way that just didn't feel aligned to a deeper soul purpose and that I feel we all have within us. And it was also a season of immense grief. And so I was really looking for something to inspire me or to pull me out of this dark hole that I feel like I had fallen into, because I knew that there was more, but I just couldn't see the way for myself. And I've always been interested in psychology and in spirituality. It's been a lifelong journey that, again, has taken many different shapes and forms throughout different seasons but when I found this program, I was like, oh, this is the one. There was so much about it that was resonant, but the fact that we're at an Ivy League institution and the conversations that we have regularly with each other and within our classrooms are the types of conversations we're having about reincarnation or whatever it is like just the coolest thing and biggest blessing that it's being validated at this type of level. What were you doing at the time you you were experiencing such darkness? I was working with different influencers on their podcast. Doing a lot in the media world of, I, I used to work at Barstool Sports, so very different than, you can see why I'm honored to have Marielle here. Yeah. A fellow podcast girl, if I sound nervous, guys, I've never been on this side of the mic. but yeah, I just was living. Being privy to conversations that were not like this and there's nothing wrong with those types of conversations. I think that there is a beautiful time and place for all of them, but for that to be my whole world and what I was consuming on a day-to-day basis because that was my job, really did not fulfill me and made me feel very unaligned and unhappy and just I knew that there had to be another another way. Was it hard to admit that to yourself? Yeah, because on the outside it's like, oh my gosh, Barstool, like a lot of people would perceive that as really interesting and cool and it was, and I think it was unaligned from the moment I took the position. I remember my friends being like, why are you doing that? That doesn't, seem like you even, and Yeah, we all go through our own journey though I think I needed to, there was something with my ego that I think really desired being seen in that way almost, or having that sense of achievement that I, was living this life that I, Wanted so badly, to go into the office in New York. I wasn't living in New York at the time. I was in Hoboken, New Jersey, and I just had this whole image built up and it was an interesting experience. It sounds like your friends knew who you were at the core, as they always do, as they always do, while you were still figuring it out. This also aligns so much with identity and labels. Because there's a prime example of something you perceive as being fulfilling in your future, working for Barstool in New York, going into the office. Mm-hmm. Because in ways it looks shiny. Mm-hmm. Under the surface, you had a different purpose or calling. Where some people, that might be it. Yeah. When do you think you started to really know who you were through and beyond that experience? I think I'm still figuring it out. if anyone is into astrology out there, as a Pisces. I have a lot of Pisces in my chart. I forget how much you're into astrology, but I don't know much about it. I'm a Taurus. Okay. Oh, she's grounded, she's of this earth. What can I say? That makes sense? I feel that from you, honestly. Mm-hmm. But water signs tend to really go with the flow and can almost lose themselves within whatever the situation It is that they're, they find themselves in. And so I have a ton of Pisces, which is a water sign in my chart And when I learned about that, it really validated like my life experiences so much because I genuinely feel like I can do whatever and figure it out and be happy for a little while because I'm like, oh, the thing is shiny. And like I got the thing. And for so long that was really what defined how I viewed my own self-worth and what I thought mattered and now that's all continuously being unraveled. And, this program has really expedited, I think the portal of self-growth in that way and of what makes someone valuable. It's like you're innately worthy and it's really easy to forget that. preach it. Oh my God. It's really easy. That's what it's all about. Yeah. Have you always been spiritual? I grew up Greek Orthodox, so religious, and I never understood the Bible or anything. I would go to church. The church would be in Greek. I don't speak fluent Greek, so like I was a part of the community, but never really understood in a deep way, I guess the teachings. I always had this connection though, I think to God and to source whatever label you wanna put on it. That's been apparent from a young age. And I had, even spiritual experiences as a child of, I talked about this in Dr. Miller's class, I saw like this light or this figure on one of those Palm Sunday crosses, you know what I'm talking? Mm-hmm. Yeah. And I'll never forget that because I remember looking at it as maybe a 5-year-old and me like, no one's gonna believe me that I'm seeing this figure and I don't know what it was, but I just always think back to that moment because you're so pure when you're a child. And I like to think that Maybe I was tapping into something else a liminal state or, yeah, I'm always trying to channel my child self. Yeah. Which we both have something in common that I think we should share with. My gosh, the podcast. I don't know if you know where I'm going with this. Oh yeah, I do. We both have a picture, uhhuh of our younger selves on the home screen of our phones. I have it because you had it and I was like, this is great. And I have it. 'cause my sister had it for a long period of time and it's so wholesome. every time I open my phone, which unfortunately is a lot. Yeah. I see this younger version of me. This pure, joyful, alive person. And it's a really good reminder. To To come back to that. What would you say you were like as a child? My dad used to call me smileitis,

Marielle 11:17

tsmileitisve myelitis because I was so smiley all the time, and I honestly think that captures,

Marielle Only Video-1 11:26

Aw, I

Rach & Marielle Audio 11:27

Aw, I love that. My inner child essence and hopefully some of my adult essence as well. what would you say yours is? I was pretty shy when I was younger. I think I was fairly quiet. I was a big observer of the world around me. Yeah. And joyful. what are a few things or what is one thing you could talk about for hours? Oh, that's a really good question. Okay. This isn't a cop out, but if I'm with someone. We were offline. I wanna know everything about their psyche and how they view the world. understanding the lens in which someone views and relates to everything around them has always been so fascinating to me. I feel like I could just go in for hours chatting about. them and how we view things differently or similarly, and what makes them be the person that they are. That's really important. Yeah. To understand other people. Especially today. When everything is very polarized.

Rachel 12:32

Everyone seems to be against each other in certain. Aspects, if only there could be a joint sense of understanding and seeing other people's point of views. I think it could go a long way. Yeah. So we need more of you. That's what I'm getting at. I don't know about that. What something you wish more people knew about you? Oh my goodness. I think how deeply I feel things I can present as very bubbly and I don't really know how people perceive me. I guess that's how I perceive other people to perceive me, but I really feel things on a tremendously deep level and I'm often moved to tears, and I think that's a really tender part that's difficult to show up in the world and show just because it is so tender. I guess that would be something that I at least would hope and would love for the people closest to me to be privy to because it feels like how I view myself that's such an important part.

Marielle 13:35

And I think when I'm in seasons of feeling disconnected, that part gets blocked off and it's so startling to not feel deeply that I'm like, oh my gosh, something is really wrong, or it freaks me out almost. It's very disorienting but it can happen frequently if I'm in a season al of right now, even of feeling a little overwhelmed with school and work and all the different obligations. That it's kind of a signal if I don't have a good cry, if I haven't recently, I'm like, oh, we need to slow it down how are we feeling here? Yeah. I was gonna ask, what are practical things you do to reconnect? Acupuncture. Okay. Yes, I have done one session of acupuncture. How did you like it? It was great. I got it for free, which is why I did it. Otherwise, I've never really explored it much or understood. The science behind it. Mm-hmm. I gen I have a general idea. Yeah. But it's not been something I grew up doing or turned to now. for me it started with the grief journey and moving the energy of grief within my body is how I was introduced to it. I just found the effects to be wonderful. I just was sleeping better and in the beginning I would go once a week. Now I go like once every three weeks or so something about laying there they put a meditation on and you just, I don't know. I, I can almost visualize the energy moving throughout my body and realigning, so it's somatic. Intentional feels like there's different elements to it. You've mentioned grief a few times. if you feel comfortable talking about grief and loss

Rachel 15:13

And And wanted to share experiences of yours with loss. Mm-hmm. I would love for you too. If that doesn't feel comfortable even just understanding how you've moved through grief and what it felt like. Yeah, I mean, I know, you know, grief is another one of those processes that just doesn't ever seem to end. It's a manifestation of love. It never will end. If we're talking about grief in relation to losing a person which is what I have been referring to, but there's so many different forms of grief. You lose a job, you lose a friendship anytime that something ends or transforms, it feels like you're grieving. I think honestly, as of most recently, I've been grieving people that are still in my life, but their roles have shifted and that's been almost more challenging than the loss of a loved one who's crossed over because I'm like, you're still here. Logically, I'm like, you should still have the same role that you've always had, but things change obviously for one reason or another, and life looks different. and I'm really in process live, navigating how

Marielle 16:14

I'm choosing to show up and relate to those in those relationships. Anyways, that was kind a tangent, but, with the loss of a loved one. For me, it's been really helpful to try to channel their energy I don't believe that they're ever really gone. I think that they're still with us and it brings me a lot of comfort knowing that. it's such a personal experience for everyone, For me, I just have such a belief that I'll be reunited with those in my life who have crossed over and, until then I hope their spirit can live through me and through all the lives that they've touched. That's really beautifully put. Thanks for sharing. Thanks for asking.

Rachel 16:53

I I think grief teaches people a lot, and you're so right that loss is all around us. Whether it be. Losing people, losing parts of ourselves. Yeah. That's huge. Losing parts of ourselves. Have you felt that? Yeah, definitely. I think it's normal, especially in our twenties, I was speaking to someone the other day about our twenties, and she had done. Some research or read up on some research around the comparison culture in the decade of our twenties that is so real compared to other parts of our lives. Because for many people, not everyone, you grow up in the us kindergarten, elementary school, middle school, high school, college, you're under your parents' wings for a lot of that. You do get independence often in college if you're on campus away from home, and then off everyone goes In hundreds of different directions. Which leads to this comparison culture. Yeah. Of they're doing this. I'm terrible. Yeah. And I've felt that, I still feel it. It's really easy to Fall into that trap. Do you relate to comparison at all? absolutely. And just on that too, so many of life's mile markers happen before we're 30. I think that makes that comparison feel more heightened. Graduate college, a lot of people. Start to, get in more serious relationships, maybe get married, start are starting, their family have the job that they might stay in for the next however many years. it's a really significant tender time. so in a lot of ways I think it's normal. But yeah, I feel that very deeply, and I think it also relates to grief. Yeah. Because you said it yourself, grief is such a personal process. There is no rule book. Yes, there are stages of grief. However, in my own experience, it has looked completely different from other people who have been grieving a similar thing or a similar person. the worst thing to do is to look at someone else who's grieving and think you're not doing good enough, or you're not healing quick enough. Yeah. That's not how it works. It's not how it works. And it's really interesting that you say that because when, Ethan, who had passed, who was like a brother to me, he passed quite suddenly and I found myself judging myself so hard for how I was grieving. I felt like I was being too loud on social media about it. I felt like, oh, are people gonna perceive this in an inauthentic way almost because I'm a writer too, and would write heartfelt captions, poems, what have you.

Marielle 19:34

I asked my friends, is this coming across normal? And it's like, there is no normal, it's how you feel. That's how we all show up authentically. We just express it in whatever way feels best. So taking a moment to honor Athan, is that his name? Yeah. And. On the topic of writing and poetry, Is that an outlet for you? Absolutely. When those tender moments that I kind of expressed before that I wish more people were privy to, for me it's a way of giving access To capture the sense and the feeling that I feel in the lowest of lows is something that feels very innate as a way to process whatever the feeling is, and then to be able to share it with loved ones or to not. A lot of times I don't, and. One of the things I'm trying to do more is to do, is to share more because it's a beautiful thing to be seen and I, recognize that you can't be seen if you don't express.

Rachel 20:37

Is there anything you wanna share with us? No pressure. We actually didn't plan this guys. Okay. I guess I should give some context though. I've been really feeling lately this grappling of my own self worth and how I define myself, which feels so relevant to this conversation and the overall theme of this podcast, these different masks that we wear, and right when I think I'm like, oh, I, I value myself, I'm good. yes, I figured it out. Something will happen and it's like, boom, back to square one. I didn't think my worth was placed in an external, job person, whatever, fill in the blank. But then when it stripped away, oh, the ego So real Anyways, so this was something that I wrote after a relationship crash out, let's say not even,

Marielle 21:27

okay, We all hate ourselves in different fonts. Some go for lesser men. I for none at all. It's a preemptive strike. My heart's favorite protocol. The walls are real and true and unkind, but none are cruel and more rehearsed than the commentary of my mind. I hate myself for abandoning myself. I become a ditzy Barbie dream. Vanish mid-sentence and I do it so pristine. I fit the stereotypes without missing a beat. A nineties pageant girl in a skims body suit instead of jeans. Weaponized beauty. How compliant is she? I hate myself for speaking words. I don't even believe each one. Another brick in the fortress I built to keep you out, only to write them all down at night and beg to be found. I hate myself for hating myself, which feels efficient if not particularly kind. What psychology, self-help. Guru is qualified to live inside this mind. Tell me what came first, the chicken or the mask. Every room has a syllabus on what to say and what to retract. A fawning was always there. A guy's easy to concur and my one woman show called, whatever you prefer. I wish my mask were colder, mysterious, and more reserved. Instead, I flash my big brown eyes like it's Bambi's last day on earth. So I lose the guy from Google, the surgeon and the ex, all because I couldn't love my hypervigilant little mess. Peace and approval are my drugs of choice. So when asked who I am or what I believe the prescribed dose is, adhere or leave abused hurt, and I didn't even know the most poetic cruelty is to suffer without naming the blow. Sunny says, I'm on the ride. Hang on tight. It's only up from here, but my newest fear is heights and I'm shaking through withdrawal, detoxing comfort. Turns out I was addicted to small. I try to accept. Not everyone will like me. Not every guy is mine, but I can't do it without assuming. I've committed some fatal design flaw inside How to explain. He's meeting a version of me who isn't even me. You don't. You see no one wants your full psyche on day one. It's too much to carry and not enough fun. So I fear I may die alone. With the self-hatred inside will gnaw through my bone, chew through the cartilage of my heart, bleed me dry, and leave my sometimes bright mind torn apart, rotting and high. I go from PhD to dumb, and under a minute's time, and I probably scared another good one away. With this very line, I make myself sick, feverish, flushed with self-rejection, all because I couldn't. Accept imperfection. Without objection, no friend or foe could say, I'm wonderful enough, beautiful, smart, kind. It ricochets off the armor and dies by its innate design. I want validation for my weakness. I want fuel poured on the fire of self-hate to be found in the wreckage and have him claim that it's fate and that. feels like the only healing, which is humiliating to name so anti-me coded with shame. But hey, there's a dumb in me all the same. My grandma told me she'll celebrate me when my day comes. So I hold onto that prophecy and try not to run. They're always onto the next, and I swear it isn't about them, it's me. And why loving myself feels like sanctioned mayhem I don't want a man who rewards my fond parts. I want someone ruthless enough to dismantle her and call it art, to hand me back my spine, and only then will I deem myself just fine. So talk about struggling with self-worth. I'm at a loss for words. That was truly incredible. Thank you. And vulnerable. I know. I can't believe I just shared that honestly, but I'm really grateful. That you felt safe to share. It sounds like it's a step in the right direction, and so many of those words resonated really deeply as it will with other people that listen. So thank you on behalf of myself and whoever else gets to hear that. 'cause I see it as words that a lot of people are afraid to put on paper. It's so real. And it doesn't mean that it's a constant state. You know what I mean? I think that we can also over pathologize things or be like, oh my gosh, I'm feeling this so deeply. Something's wrong with me. But it's like you feel that in the moment and then it's okay. you can let it go and just recognize it as a part of you. It's feeling it for whatever reason now. But I appreciate you saying that and creating the space where I do feel safe enough to express, I mean, our friendship is why I am expressing it. I feel like there was a part in there that said begged to be seen. It was in the first half. I think that's what everybody wants. Yeah. Is to be seen.

Rachel 25:52

another line was imperfection and objection. were so afraid to be imperfect. Out of fear of rejection. those two stuck with me and I butchered them. I'm excited to go back and listen to that soon. it's true though. Like, I mean, for me personally, all The ways I. Don't show up or suppress, and the only person that I'm hurting is myself. when I don't express in the way that feels authentic and true, it's like you wanna be seen so deeply, but why can't you express I'm actively working on that on therapy.

Marielle Only Video-1 26:22

We

Rach & Marielle Audio 26:23

We are all working on that. A really random shift because I just Yeah. Think it would be fascinating to chat about You have just lived so many lives already. We've spoken about being in media, podcasting, bar stool, and now in this spear mind body program, psychology, wanting to pursue a PhD potentially, eventually. And I learned this a few days ago that you were in pageants fun page, which it makes sense 'cause you're stunning, like it's so obvious. will you just share a little about that experience? I would love to, mostly because I think that there is such a misconception behind pageants and It's not something I talk about often anymore, but it was such a huge part of my life for many years. first of all, pageants are probably not what you may think of them to be. I think a lot of people think it's all about beauty and poise and grace, but really you're being judged on your community service, how well spoken you are. You have a talent, mine was piano. Your interview skills, how much you know about the world, which get political in those in 10 minute interviews like,

Marielle 27:26

like, and the women that I competed with during that time period were some of the most accomplished I've ever met. So it's really was a very high pressure environment. It's almost because you're not just being judged on your beauty that made the fallout of not winning feel much more personal and really bad because I'm being judged on my personality, how well spoken I am, all my grades, accolades. A lot of people, myself included, competed for scholarship money. So I did this in high school. I did it in my earlier twenties as well. But When I was very into, it was during the high school years and went on to win nationals and when I went back later and I forget how old, maybe 20, I went back for the Miss division. 'cause this was as like a Miss America's national teenager. Then Then later when I went back and didn't place at all. You would've thought that someone died and a part of me did. I think my dreams, the belief that I was not good enough and worthy of winning. Miss New Jersey, miss America, it was so real. And I think you have to have a certain type of, personality, thick skin self-assurance to be able to compete, and to recognize. None of this defines me. This is. a panel of judges who given the year, have their own reasons for looking for different things, whether it's to promote a message of the organization or if something is happening politically within the world, they might want a certain type of, woman to represent the state as she goes to nationals. there are so many different factors at play, but for me, being very competitive and having succeeded previously to then do a a 180 was very, very difficult. it was just really challenging to feel something was innately wrong when it couldn't obviously be further from the truth these people don't know me they're judging me over a period of a week. especially in high school. Yeah. Yeah. Wild. I know. I think about that often. what would've happened if I, if the reverse were true and I didn't win in high school and I didn't, there were plenty of times that I had lost, but in the end it felt like I had received what I was seeking after, and I did. But But even in those prior competitions, when I would lose it was devastating as being a, I dunno, 14, 15-year-old, no idea who I am as a person. And again, that's kinda what I was talking about in the beginning too, with the flow. I would just flow whatever you want me to be. I said in the poem, I'm your one woman show. I can be whoever you want I think pageants honestly, were a root of feeling that way. oh, I can just mask and I'll show up how you want me to, oh my gosh, what a life. thank you for clarifying more about what it entails. Yeah. A lot of people don't know, and I don't blame, especially growing up it was you turn on Miss America or Miss USA and obviously Miss USA used to be owned by Trump. So there's connotations there. They're two very different organizations. But you're seeing a hour broadcast when these women, quite literally every single day for years are pouring their heart and soul into a mission that they care about working with different nonprofits. So much work goes on behind the scenes, and I think, like I said, that's what makes it hurt more when you don't win, you become what you're doing, it just hurts more. It goes back to labels I know and identity. I'm gonna say those two words a lot probably, but No, it's so true. And you're quite literally being labeled Miss whoever, inserts state, and like any label, you're a representative of a certain organization. Just like if you are, a politician representing a state or whatever it is, we all have labels, some as simple as job titles or a role, it's almost like a self-fulfilling prophecy. You're becoming whoever it is that you think you need to be. For someone else. Yes.

Rachel 31:23

that's so real. Yeah. I mean. How many times do we try and conform for the purpose of someone else? Or a label. Or a role? Yeah. Or how we feel we should show up. What's one lesson you took away from that part of your life? It really taught me the value of community, and sisterhood. of course there were experiences where you're being met with women who look at you with the evil eye or don't wish the best for you, but for the majority of my time competing, I had wonderful relationships, and I think that's why I competed for so long was because of the sisterhood, it really felt like you were a part of something. It felt like you were a part of a larger mission. that stayed with me and now has just transformed. I mean, it's one of the reasons I love our program so much is because it feels like we're a family and we can go deep in a second, it's effortless. community is something that we all could always have more of. There should never be a cap or a ceiling on that feeling of belonging. And that was a really meaningful introduction to what that feels like as an adolescent. Thanks for sharing. Well, this has been so much fun. This is so great, Marielle. Thank you so much for being here. Rachel. You're a pro. Oh, you're so sweet. You're the best. She's the best podcast interviewer in the game, guys like that is amazing coming from you, devoted, loving, and silly. Any way that people could connect with you or anything that you wanna say before we finish? you could follow me on Instagram. Marielle Marleys, And yeah, I'm starting a YouTube channel, which I'm really excited for. It's supposed to be very lighthearted and just bring a sense of lightness into this crazy age that we're currently navigating. But by nature of who I am as a person, it definitely brings in elements of spirituality and a lot of conversations like this self-worth and what it means to show up authentically, I'm really excited. it's currently in the works, but I'm sure you'll be featured on it in due time. Does it have a name yet or is there No. Should I just tag it in the show notes when it's up? Yeah, yeah. Okay. Yeah. Perfect. Thank you so much for having me, Rachel. This was such an honor. Truly. You're the best. I love you. Thanks Marielle Bye everyone. Bye.