What's the Worst That Can Happen?: Shirley on Risk-Taking, Adventure & Truly Living

Content Warning: This episode includes discussion of suicidal ideation and mental health struggles.

Rachel Peck welcomes Shirley Stack to 'Unmasked - a Beyond Worthy Podcast' and shares how they met through Shirley’s granddaughter, Erika, during a rainy visit in Avila Beach. Shirley describes herself as adventuresome, fearless, and loving life, tracing this mindset to a cerebral hemorrhage in her early 30s that led to an out-of-body experience, emergency surgery at UCLA, and what she calls her “rebirth.” After recovering, she divorced, returned to school, and became a clinical psychologist, later working in private practice and at a prison. Shirley emphasizes taking responsibility for yourself, making sensible emotional risks, and asking “what’s the worst that can happen?” She recounts solo and shared adventures—Mexico, Africa, and extensive world travel—reflects on aging and physical decline, and says family and friends matter most, urging listeners to use time wisely and truly live.

Transcript

Rachel Peck & Shirley 0:00

Hello, everyone, and welcome to "Unmasked," a Beyond Worthy podcast. My name is Rachel Peck, take a few minutes, sink into this moment, notice where you are, what you're doing, and just try to be present as you take a few deep breaths I'm giving you permission to slow down for this second because we're all probably buzzing around and rushing And then I'm gonna introduce Shirley Stack, my guest today Shirley- how are you doing today? I'm doing okay. I'm so glad that you are here. briefly I will share with people how we met and why you're here. I recently went on a road trip to California with a friend, Erica, who is your granddaughter, and Shirley welcomed us into her home for a couple of days. We got the chance to just sit with you. It was raining in Avila Beach area, which according to you, it never rains. Is that correct? Not very often, but it does rain. Well, it was raining all day, so we just sat together and chatted, learned about your life, and I just took away so much wisdom and insights from that day. so I thought who better to have a conversation with on this podcast, because the rest of the world can learn from you as well. Thank you. let's start with your three words that you chose to describe yourself at this point in time. Shirley, you chose adventuresome- Fearless- Mm-hmm and loving life. Yes. Which one do you wanna start with? I don't know. How about adventuresome? Okay, that's fine. Okay. Will you tell us what, why you chose that word? I really, didn't start living my life until I was about 32, 33. It changed my whole life. I had this, cerebral hemorrhage, and, I went through a out-of-body experience, and I realized that I hadn't been living my life during that exper- I haven't been taking responsibility for myself. I was, at that time, I was a mother of two children, and I had a husband and a very rocky marriage. and in the middle of all that, so of thinking about a divorce, which was, would be very traumatic, I had a cerebral hemorrhage. And I was sitting and, at a chair put- I was very depressed before that, and I was sitting putting on labels on my children's, clothes that they were going to both be sent to camp because I was so depressed and seeing a therapist at that time. And I really couldn't handle taking care of my children, So the therapist, recommended this camp that she thought was very good, and I sent both of my children there. And, so that's what I was doing. They were still here in the house someplace, but not in the house because I farmed them out to neighbors because I couldn't, handle them very well And that was before the, brain injury that you faced. Right. Okay. Do you wanna hear about my brain injury? Yeah. I would be curious to know, what happened, why that occurred, and, what the experience was like that was an out-of-body experience that, changed your life. Okay. Well, it did. It was my rebirth, basically. I got so close to dying, and I was in so much pain That I realized that I had never really taken any responsibility for myself. I was 19 when I got married, and, I had very little experience with life. And now I had this hemorrhage and I was in such pain, and there was nothing I could do. I fainted many times. I was home alone and, my husband came in and somehow he just carried me to my bed, and I'm thinking to myself, because I couldn't even talk, I said, "Hey, I'm suffering. I'm in pain. Help me." And he didn't seem to pay attention to that, and, he just called his friend, who was a pediatrician, and, he came over and shot me full of whatever he could, but it didn't stop the pain. And finally, they called an ambulance and took me to the little hospital in the little community of La Mirada in And It was a brand-new community in the, eastern part of Los Angeles County. And, this was a small community hospital, and they didn't really have any doctors there who could do anything for me. So I spent two weeks in the intensive care unit, which I couldn't, can't even recall except I was in a lot of pain. And, and then they wheeled me into the operating room, and I was so happy to that someone was gonna do something for me. And, apparently I could hear them talking. They started to shave my hair and then stop because, I could hear them saying, "Oh, her blood pressure is through the roof, and it looks like she's having another hemorrhage." So they're starting to wheel me back to intensive care, wh- which I'd been in there for two weeks in pain. and I couldn't do anything. I couldn't speak or anything, so I felt so helpless. Wow. And when I, got back to the intensive care, I said, "I'd like to kill myself, but how can I do it? And what can I do?" And then, I said, I'm thinking of what I could do, and somehow I saw myself, Going u-up in the air, leaving my body and looking down at me laying there in this pain. And I said, "I'm gonna see what I could do." So somehow I got into my head and, and fixed it, from where I was. and I thought to myself Hey, I did it, I think. But then I saw this tunnel, or excuse me, that was probably before that happened. I saw this tunnel, and I was going to go through it, and I thought it would be a way of dying. But then I, realized when I got there and I saw the light at the end of the tunnel and it looked so peaceful, and I knew that w- I'd be dying if I went through that tunnel, and then I thought, "Well, you know, I've never taken responsibility for myself so much." I was a good mother and a good wife, and, and, my husband was almost 10 years older than me, and I was, had very little experience in life. and I decided that, hey, what can I do? And then I came back, and that's when I crawled into my head, and I took care of my hemorrhage. so you didn't have any surgery or You didn't end up having any procedure? Oh, yes, I did. After that, I was in, I woke up and I was in the intensive care there at this little hospital, and my husband never even told my mother that I was there until that time. And I was very, very weak, and I saw the little nurses were bathing me, and, I felt like a baby again. Yeah. I was, like, cooing, oh, all of these people They're taking care of me, and, they're washing me and my private parts, and they're lifting my arm to watch, and my arms and everything. And I realized that, hey, I w- I felt like I was a baby again, and I just wanted my mother. Aw. And my, when my mother did come in- she didn't care who she insulted, "I'm getting her out of this place." And she said, "I'm taking her to UCLA to see Dr. Gr- Rand," who was the top neurosurgeon in in Los Angeles at that time. Oh, my gosh. And she just ruled the roost, directed everyone, and said, because she had called Dr. Rand, and he said it's impossible to do surgery in a little hospital like that. There's no way. Wow. So anyway, th- she got me in an ambulance. Are you still there? Oh, yeah. I'm here. I'm locked in. Okay. Okay. She got me in an ambulance, and I was so weak I almost died in the ambulance because the ambulance was full of attendants, one attendant who really didn't know up from down, and they laid me crinkling up all my, my tubes I guess there were, tubes, urinary tubes and, blood tubes and whatever, but they all got crinkled. I was laying on them, and he never even looked at me, and it was like 90 degrees, and we're in Los Angeles on the freeway trying to get from where we were in La Mirada to UCLA. Wow. In Los Angeles, west through it. So when I finally got there, I was, like very limp and tired, and the doctor apparently looked at me and then took my mother aside and said, "Hey, it sounds like she had two hemorrhages already, and I don't want her to have another one, so we're gonna have to do surgery today right away." Wow. And, and my husband was following the ambulance in the car, and then he just left me thinking that my mother will take care of me. And he went back to his office, and- the doctor said, "We have to have surgery," and they couldn't give me anything for the pain. that was a new procedure at that time. This was in 19... 19... What did I say? 1970, I think. Okay. And so you were 32 at this time, when you nearly faced death many times throughout this whole process. What a wild experience. I would love to jump to, you opening your eyes after surgery in LA what shifted and what you felt and, what you did next that was so significant in terms of just changing your life after that. Well, I, my husband came in, and I realized, that he didn't care about me at all, and he rushed away, and here I was so weak, he could, he would... I needed help to lift my arm or feed myself. I couldn't do it. But then when he came that evening, I said, "I want you to take a picture of me right now." And he thought I was stupid, but, and and I said, "No, it's important to me." And he took a picture of me lying in this bed with this cast on my head and all wrapped up, and, later I realized that was my rebirth picture. And that's why I wanted it, because my life changed significantly after that. I worked hard and got strong, and, then I, was strong enough, I told him to leave the house, and we got a divorce, and then my life began. Wow. And I went back to school. I had only had a year at UCLA before I got married, so I ended up going to Cal State Fullerton, was the closest state university near La Mirada, where I lived. And, I went back to school, and I wore a wig because my head had been shaved. All my hair was off, and I lost about 50 pounds during that ordeal. And I went back to school, and I was gonna go on to get my doctor's degree in psychology, and that's what I wanted to do, and that's what I did. Incredible. Yeah. And I wanna ask you, for someone who doesn't have a cerebral hemorrhage and does not face a near-death experience like you faced at such a young age, at 32- Without having that experience, I'm sure that it's hard for a lot of people to learn things about what matters in life and the priorities in life. What would you say to someone who hasn't had an experience like that but wants to create a shift and have a rebirth in their life? let's see. I think first they have to think about taking responsibility for themselves. That was the most poignant thing that I learned, that I wasn't doing it, and this was the first time I started taking responsibility for myself So now I'm, I'm digressing a bit from your question. I'm not answering it right, I guess. I mean, that's really incredible. I think taking responsibility for one's self, and it sounds like, you know, prioritizing what it is that you really want and wanna get in life. One thing I remember from our conversation in California when I was sitting in your living room was you spoke a lot about emotional risk-taking. Yes. Do you wanna share a bit about what that means to you? Yes. It meant a lot, because once I survived, I, I, I I was fearless. I was not afraid of anything. I would take risks. I remember going out to a dance for divorced people or something, and I went alone, and I had no fear. I would look at the nicest looking male that w- across the room, and I'd just walk right up to him and say, "Hey, you're look really good. Can I visit with you a little bit?" You know. And I wasn't even afraid, and there were so many women standing on the sideline waiting for men to come and ask them to dance or something. And I was totally fearless about that. That was the first experience of being fearless. And then I followed through with, so many things that happened. I f- when I finished Cal State Fullerton with my bachelor's degree, then I, had to go to a graduate school, and I picked a school in San Diego that had all the greats. And my mentors at Cal State Fullerton said, "Oh, you gotta go to San Diego," because all the greats in psychology at that time were there. Because most psychologists w- schools of psychology were, associated with, running rats through mazes, you know, conditional response by Dr. Skinner. You know, that was what they were doing in school at that time, and I wanted to be a clinical psychologist, and there were very few programs for clinical psychology. So when I went to San Diego, I also had a dream of having a house on the beach where nobody was around. There were no crowds or villages or people or hotels, And I, I kept going when I got... I kept going south through, to Baja, California, and, every weekend when I had time off from school, I would take a drive and camp along the way, looking for my ideal beach that I had in my mind. And, eventually, after three or four, camping out experiences along the way, I found my beach, and I call it my beach because as soon as I saw it, I said, "This is it." and I said, "How can I build a house here? And what can I do?" And then- And that was in Mexico, right? That was in Mexico. Baja, California, Mexico. Wow. And, there were no people around or anything. I just had my dog with me, and, a- and I looked around in the distance, I saw a trailer, and I said, "Ha, instant house. Wow." So there was a lot of details. I finally did find, an old trailer from one of the students that's from school, and, a Mexican down there, I shook hands with him him and said, "I'm coming back on Memorial Day weekend. I'll be off from school." So I brought this, fixed up this old trailer, with some help of some of my college friends, and, we took it down there. And the road leading to the beach was terrible. It wasn't a graded road, and there were boulders in it. And it was only eight miles, but it took, three hours to, almost to traverse that road. And I got there, and then, I was there with my kids and, I wasn't afraid of anything. I had, I knew how to take care of myself, and I could protect my children. I had tools, and I had, first aid kits, and I knew everything I could do, I could manage. We had that adventure with both of my kids. We went swimming, we went clamming, we were fishing. I had a horse that I bought to leave down there with a Mexican family. They took care of it and brought it out every time we came to the beach, and, it was, it was a fantastic adventure. Wow. And I met a friend that was also, when I first started USIU, that was the name of the university at that time, and when I started there, I met a counselor there, and she got all excited about my adventure and my place in Mexico. Oh. And, she came down with me after that. and then she and I, she wanted to have an adventure while I was in graduate school. She and I agreed we wanted to go to Mexico, and we wanted to go drive all the way to Panama. Wow. The two of us decided to do that. We packed up my Chevy Blazer, and, we had everything we needed, and we started going, just the two women. And we went all the way to the edge of Panama. We ended up in Costa Rica and, There was a problem. It was three months it took us to get there. Oh. And we had lots of adventures and flat tires and everything. But that was another adventure I had- with the two women. We had plenty of, uncomfortable situations, with, men and with, the Mexican police and all that. We were harassed quite a bit because- Oh, gosh they don't see two young Am- Americans traveling by themselves. And I forgot about right at, before I even did the Baja thing, I, I took a trip to Africa. That was one of my dreams to do, and I just went by myself and connected up with a a big white hunter in Nairobi, and we arranged everything. And, and that was something I wanted to do, and that was also very adventurous out by myself. Wow. And I arranged it all and did that. So the African trip and Panama, and later on, would you believe I took a freighter cruise three-quarters of the way around the world all by my- on I was the only passenger on it, and made all these stops. And, I, That was another adventure. Oh my gosh. And I could go on forever, you know? I went to Borneo, and I loved it, and, Asia, and Vietnam, and Bali, and- Mm and snorkeling, and I went on bike tours, uh, you know, in Holland and Belgium. So, and- I rode a bike, tours, in Holland and Belgium. It sounds very empowering the way that you approached life and took risks. You went out of your comfort zone- And it's the- all for the sake of loving life, and clearly I can see the joy beaming off of you talking about your travels. What form of encouragement would you share if you were talking to maybe yourself or a group of young individuals who feel stuck- or feel like they wanna, take- Yeah life by the horns and go somewhere, what do you th- I would- What would you say? I'd say risking is the secret of life. You have to risk, emotional risking. I'm not saying walking across a freeway in the traffic or any- I'm talking about emotional risking. Secret of life. You have to take risks if you want to live. Yeah. And, That, to me, is the secret. Are there any other secrets you would share now being do you wanna share your age, or is that- Yeah How old are you? No, I'm 89, almost 90. Okay. Well, happy early birthday. Thank you. Thank you. And as an almost 90-year-old, are there any other secrets now at your age that you're like, "Man, I wish that the younger generations just knew this"? Well, that was my main secret- 'cause everything I did was a risk. You know, an emotional risk and, not really a physical risk, 'cause I was, other than our Baja adventure, I was safe. But, uh- Take a chance, and look at what it is you really enjoy in life And follow that, and don't be afraid, because fear is this thing that keeps people back. And, I was fearless at that time, you know, all that time, and even today I There isn't much that I'm afraid of in my life anymore. So it's very admirable, because I think fear definitely haunts a lot of people. Fear of rejection is one in particular that Right Even thinking about you on the dance floor walking up to a man, I'm like, "That's courageous." And not a lot of people Have the guts these days to do that So I know. They're all afraid. And what's the worst that can happen? That's another mantra I could pass on. If you look at somebody, what's the worst that can happen? someone might laugh at you. So what? You know, You really have to look at what's the worst that can happen. I didn't take risks that, I would hurt myself. I took sensible risks that I thought were sensible. You are just speaking gold. And I wonder too, just, you know, getting older, it must be really fun to reflect on some of these memories. What's the most challenging part of, getting older, would you say, and being an 89-year-old? Oh, physical challenges more than anything. It keeps coming up. I was a bicyclist, and then I had trouble when I was in my middle 80s, with my balance, so I had to give up cycling. And, then, other things came along and, issues, physical issues that got in the way of so many things that sometimes I got pretty depressed and wondered if I, wanted to keep living. But I have a beautiful family. I don't have any husbands. I live alone with a housemate and a little dog, and, Sophia Sophia. And she's a good lap dog, and she, you know, makes me laugh a lot. And I have good neighbors and friends, and so they want me to stick around. And I have grandchildren. I have three grandchildren and, and they're I guess two of them are in their 30s right now, so- Yeah I kept telling them that, about risking, and I hope it, it got to them too, And what is the worst that can happen? you have to think about that before you say you're afraid. What are you afraid of? I did a lot of c- uh, I, I mean, I was in private practice for 20 years, and then I, worked at a prison as a psychologist. Working with the mentally ill and prisoners, c- convicts, you know? So I ha- I got to know a lot about life and hearing other people's stories as well. Wow. And I loved my work all along. I just loved what I did. When I was in private practice, I worked with families and, couples and children, and I just loved what I did. I just loved my job and my work. Wow. And when I retired, I did a little more traveling. Something that's coming to mind right now for me is what the benefit really is of taking emotional risks, which in my mind, based on the way that I hear you speak about your experiences, it sounds like the benefit can really outweigh the fear. So getting over the hump of taking the risk can be so worth it because of what's on the other side, joy, freedom, empowerment, love of life. Empowered. And- Empowerment. Yeah. Is And so is there anything else you would add to, the feeling of taking a risk, and when you've accomplished it what that feels like for you that made it so worth it? Well, I gained so many e- enjoyable and memorable experiences in my life like that. And I have a big box in my garage, a plastic container thing, and I have all my memorabilia in that box. And I plan, if I ever or when I get bedridden or get close to dying, that I wanna go over all of those things and I want, would like my family around me. Aw. And just to all my memories from my life, I would like to share. I remember when my father was dying, the the best thing I did for him, he had all his photos scattered all over in the drawers and things, and I took them and put them in albums. And there were no dates. I had to look at people's clothing to know if it was the flapper days or the, you know, the '20s or '30s or the '40s, you know. So, uh, and I took all the movies, eight millimeter little ones that he had, and I had them all spliced together and showed it to him. And I remember he had tears in his eyes, and he just loved that more than anything else, And I said, "Wow, I was so happy I did that for him before he died," 'cause I loved him, that man. He was wonderful. And, I thought that's what I would like my family to be with me and go over all these memorabilias with me, and I could share everything even more than I can share in this few minutes with you. So- Well, and it sounds like you'll be able to look back at those things and be so joyful knowing that you took so many risks and so many travel experiences- Right and lived life to the fullest in so many ways beyond words. And with the last few minutes that we have, I wanna ask you what you want to be remembered for, for the rest of time. If everyone knew the name Shirley Stack, what do you want to be remembered for? What do you want people to say about you? Or know about you? what do you hope people remember about you? Is that the hard one? Take your time Hmm. That's, well, if I look at it right now, I, my body is starting to fall apart already, you know, so but I still seem to have some zest for living life, or it's still there. Even with all the pain, all the pains and, things I can't do, there is still a lot I can do, and I have some very good friends. Yeah. So making friends, I think are very important in life. You make lifelong friends, and then you're never alone. Oh. Friends are the most important thing. Family and friends That's really the most important thing in my life right now is my family, my daughter, my grandchildren. that you know one of them. Mm-hmm. And, uh, and those are, those are important people in my life, and I love being around them. Aw. Well, you make it easy to be in relationship with, and I can attest to just the care that you hold people with based on spending 48 hours with you only. Well, thank you, Rachel. Mm-hmm. Love you very much. You're such a sweetheart, and I wish you all the success in the world, dear heart. Aw, that's so kind. Is there anything else that I didn't ask you that you would wanna share? no pressure, but I always just like to end with that if there's anything else you wanted to add, Well, it's, it's a shame I had to have a near-death experience to realize how important life was. Mm. That I wasn't living my life. You know, I wasn't making my own decisions. I just, floated along, and I was so young that I didn't really know about life. now I forgot the question. I'm sorry. No, that's There was no question. It was just anything else you wanted to add, and I think that was really wonderful. Just live. Just live and enjoy your life because it's all you've got, and time is the only thing you have to negotiate with in life. And how you choose and what you choose to do with your time is your life. So time is all you have. So make the, make good choices with your time. That's a really, really great way to end, and a good reminder that we don't have to have a near-death experience to start living. Right. Right. Just manage. Take responsibility for your time, and then you'll know that you're living. Oh. Wow, Shirley, thank you so much. This has been such a blessing to get to chat with you and see your smile over Zoom. Mm-hmm. And I am so honored that I got to meet you and be with you in person. Gotta come back to California and hang out with you some more. Okay. Thank you so much. Of course. Shirley Stack, everyone. The three words, adventuresome, fearless, and loving life. You are wonderful. Lots of love. Thanks for being here. Thank you. Bye.