[#1] The Lore Behind Anteater Physical Therapy and Performance

In this episode, I’m going to talk a bit about my background, what led me into physical therapy in the first place, and why I ultimately decided to start Anteater Physical Therapy and Performance.

Main topics covered:

• My fitness journey
• What led me to physical therapy
• My frustration with traditional physical therapy
• The limitations of traditional physical therapy
• My decision to quit and go all-in on Anteater PTP

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Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:07

Hello, and welcome to Canada Conversations with Dr. Kelsey. I'm your host, Dr. Kelsey, and this is the space where I share my honest thoughts, real experiences, and the no BS conversations I wish more people were having about movement, training, injury recovery, and life as an active human. The goal of this podcast is to help you better understand your body, think more critically about rehab and fitness, and feel more confident making decisions so you can stay active long term. Before we start, a quick reminder. I am a physical therapist, but I am not your physical therapist. Nothing here is medical advice. So if you're dealing with something specific, please reach out to your PT or schedule a session to work with me. Alright, now let's get into today's conversation. So one of the reasons I started my own physical therapy practice is because when I was a patient, I felt like I had to lie to my healthcare providers. And the reason I felt like I had to lie was because I knew if I told them how much I was training or what I wanted to get back to doing, the conversation was inevitably going to shift towards telling me to stop doing those things instead of actually helping me get back to them. So in this episode, I'm going to talk a little bit about my background, what led me into physical therapy in the first place, and why I ultimately decided to start Anteater physical therapy and performance. So first a bit more about me. I was a high school athlete. I did tennis and swimming, but I'd say my fitness journey really started when I was in undergrad. So for the first part of my first year of college, I think I was I was like the classic ex-high school athlete in that I didn't, you know, because I didn't have practice to go to, I uh wasn't on any sports teams. Um I ended up not really being physically active because I didn't have that direction that I did when I was on the uh tennis team or the swim team. Um and so it wasn't really until I started uh Air Force ROTC at the end of my first year of college that really pushed me towards being more physically active, um like partially to keep up with everyone else and also partially to get a really good score on the physical fitness tests. Um for Air Force ROTC, uh I went to UCLA. Um I was actually going to UC Irvine, that's actually my almond water. Uh and if you don't know, it's home also home of the anteaters. So that was the inspiration behind the name of my practice. And so every Friday I would drive all the way to UCLA to do our ROTC things and then drive all the way back that evening. And the reputation at the time at UCLA was that really, if you were not maxing out on your physical fitness test, you were basically failing. And so I spent all like three and a quarter years trying to improve my fitness so I can get the highest score possible on the fitness test. And so that's kind of really what led me to starting CrossFit after I came back from what we call field training. It's basically our version of boot camp for officers that went through the ROTC program. And I started CrossFit because I just wanted to get stronger and it did really help me. Um, and it was also the catalyst for now being in my 30s and like wanting to do triathlons and high rocks and all these other things. Um so that's the fitness side. Um, the thing that led me to physical therapy, um, I feel like like most people, I actually started out uh pre-med. Um so I started college um wanting to become a cardiologist. And it wasn't until like my second year when I started doing being more active in like school clubs and like going to those meetings on like you know how to um how to get into med school and whatever. I was like, you know, this this seems really cutthroat to me. Um just hearing experiences from people going to medical school, like somebody even told was saying, I like maybe they were just horror stories to like scare us, but I mean it worked because it scared me. But one of the students is basically like, yeah, like you know, in order to save time to study, like I stopped showering. I'm like, oh my gosh. Um so yeah, that I mean that wasn't the only reason why I decided to stop uh or I didn't want to go to med school anymore. It was also the realization that like, okay, after these four years of school, I have another four years of medical school, and then I have like three years of residency or more and fellowship, like that's a lot of school and a lot of time before I'm finally like contributing to society and like earning money. Um, I don't really count the pay and residency as earning money because it's like you're barely surviving, but um, but yeah, that kind of like that's kind of what turned me off on going to medical school. Um I briefly considered uh physician assistant because then at least you're still in the medical field, um, but at least it's like a two-year program, so not nearly as long. Um, but um so two things uh two things happening at the same time is kind of what introduced me to physical therapy because it wasn't on my radar at all um uh at first. So the first one was taking a comparative exercise physio class. So um at the time uh UC Irvine didn't have a regular exercise physio class, they didn't even have a kinesiology program. Um I think they started that the year after I graduated, so in 2015. Um so I took this comparative exercise physio class and it was fascinating. I really, really enjoyed that class. And so it was one, is it was like a class where comparing like the mitochondrial density in muscles for hummingbirds versus you know humans, like I'm it wasn't like you know the comparing the humans to animals thing, but just like the science, like the like the physio uh physiological science of it is what really fascinated me. At the same time, I was also going to physical therapy as a patient because I had strained my abdominal, uh, one of my abdominal muscles, um, doing like accessory work, doing uh weighted Russian twists. So a pretty dumb injury, but um, but it eventually led me to going to physical therapy, and what really interested me was um the fact that okay, I went for like this one thing, but then the physical therapist, like she checked my hip strength, she checked a whole bunch of stuff, um, and then like made my plan based off of that. And then so it's like okay, we weren't only working on my abdominals, which is what I was trying to do when I was trying to self-rehab, we were working on all of these things, which is what helped me rehab my abdominal muscle. Um, so that really fascinated me as well, and so those two things together is kind of what pushed me towards looking into physical therapy school. Um, but I would have to wait anyway because uh again, I was in uh Air Force ROTC, and because I had gone through this revelation like after the cutoff or when um uh for like when you're applying for certain career fields and stuff, um, then I would have to wait until I served my first four years before potentially cross-training to a different career field. So those are the two things that kind of really pushed me towards wanting to become a physical therapist. And funnily enough, my experience going to physical therapy in college is also kind of the first frustration that I experienced with traditional physical therapy for people like me, like people who uh were wanting to do higher level activities or be a little bit more athletic. So as a patient, um as a patient at that clinic, um one it was one day that I was talking to one of the techs about, you know, like why I was there, I guess, and we kind of got on the topic of CrossFit. Um, and as we were talking about CrossFit, like out of nowhere, one of the other physical therapists there, like not the one treating me, but like some guy that had I've never met before, like heard us talking about CrossFit, and then all of a sudden just start saying, like, oh my god, you do a CrossFit, like CrossFit's so bad for you, like you shouldn't do that at all. You need to stop right now, and like all these things. And I'm like, first of all, who the fuck are you? Like I like again, I had never met this man before in my life. He had never talked to me before in my life, he didn't know my life situation, he didn't know why I started CrossFit, he didn't know why I enjoyed it. He was just trying to assert his opinion on me, even though like CrossFit, you know, I attribute CrossFit as one of the things that prevented me from dropping out of college. Because, you know, here's another little lore moment about me. Like I almost dropped out of college, like I didn't think I deserved to be there. Um, and CrossFit, you know, one of the benefits that I got from CrossFit was confidence, and so you know, CrossFit allowed me to continue and graduate with honors, and um again, is kind of what the catalyst was to for me continuing to be physically active to this day. And so, you know, at some point I I think I told him something like, Oh, like, okay, yeah, even if it is dangerous, like everything's dangerous, like I could, you know, break my ankle like stepping off a curb or get hit by a car when I leave the clinic today. Like I, you know, went along the lines of that. But that experience did not sit well with me. And I think it and he wasn't the only one. I feel like I had told, like, later on, like doing a physical or something, um, when like a doctor, uh, like a medical doctor found out, or when I told them that I did CrossFit, they also tried to get me to stop doing CrossFit. So eventually I just like if I had to go to like the clinic or anything, like if I had to go to a doctor or anything, I would just kind of lie about doing CrossFit. Um, I would say I do, you know, strength training or weightlifting. And if they decided to clarify uh had me clarify on like what type of weightlifting, um, I would say I did Olympic weightlifting. Um and usually they'll be like, oh okay. Um but eventually um when I was when I was in the military, I had to go to physical therapy for my uh Achilles, and um that the physical therapist then like saw right through me because then she was like, Okay, is it like actual Olympic weightlifting or are you doing like CrossFit Olympic weightlifting? And I was like, ah, okay, I'm doing CrossFit. Um luckily she was understanding, partially because she also kind of did CrossFit. So um luckily she wasn't judgmental then, but the problem with that experience is that whenever I would go to my physical therapy sessions after that evaluation, they would last so long. Um so when I was in the military, we would go, uh I had a um uh shift schedule. So we would go on alert, and alerts were 24 hours at a time, and you add in on top of that all the prep stuff we would do before actually going on the alert and all of the debriefing and stuff after the alert. So, like factoring in all of that time, like I would be gone for 32 hours at a at a time from my house, and so our off days were pretty precious. Um, and it was already difficult enough to like maintain a regular exercise schedule with this alert schedule, um, partially because I didn't really want to work out while I was on alert. Like, there's no shower, we just have a it's a literal prison toilet with uh a toilet seat attached to it. Um so yeah, I didn't want to work out on alert. Some people did, I did not want to do that. So um I would have to, you know, find time to exercise on my off days. And so one of the days I had a physical therapy appointment, um, I'm like, okay, I'll be in and out in under an hour, because me thinking like that's that's how it was when I was in college, uh, and then I'll have time to go to like the CrossFit class, like at whatever time it was. But I ended up being in the clinic for like two hours, like doing physical therapy exercises, and like I would like I after the first three, I thought I would be done, but then you know, I'm like, okay, I'm done with these exercises, and then the tech was like, Oh no, okay, so now we're gonna do this exercise. And I'm like, okay, and so yeah, all told, by the time I was done, or by the time like I left, it was like two hours later, and like I missed the CrossFit class that I would had been planning on going to. Um, so that was really annoying. And yeah, so that was like really frustrating. Um, just trying to, you know, schedule all of these extra visits, like the physical therapy sessions and the exercise uh sessions and all of that on my off days. Um, so yeah, that was like really, really frustrating. Um fast forward to once I became a physical therapist, um, so as a provider, I I feel like the stereotype is a lot of people go to physical therapy school in order to like work with athletes or whatever. Um, maybe not specifically in sports, but like like being a sports physical therapist, like working with tea sports teams. But I feel like a lot of and I I think I fell into this trap too. Um, or not I think, I I definitely fell into this trap too, in that like, okay, you're gonna go be a physical therapist and you're gonna work with like athletic people or people who want to be active. Um but the reality is that insurance makes it really clear that they will not reimburse um for recreational activities. And so what that means is if somebody wants to get back to like doing like hiking or something, or play playing on like a basketball league or like recreational league or like you know, anything or like running marathon or anything that doesn't involve like day-to-day activities, so just like going to work, uh doing your activities of daily living, so you know, like do your daily chores, things you have to do uh every day, like showering or like brushing your teeth, all of that. If like anything beyond that, insurance will not pay for. And the way insurance knows if we're working on that is by reading our notes. And so we have to be really creative with goals. If someone's goal is to like run a marathon or something, or get back to bench pressing, for example, like we have to be creative about like okay, they want to be able to run so that they can't like keep up with their kids or whatever, or like be able to run or reach the next gate in an airport uh while traveling, or for the push-ups, like being able to do floor recovery, so if they fall down, being able to get back up. Um and you know, to be fair, like I don't I'm not sure how often insurances audit notes. Um that's a conversation for another day because there's there's a lot of baggage for that. But in the event that they do audit the notes, they can and have clawed back any money that they've paid clinics, um, meaning that the clinic will get paid by the insurance, and then later the insurance can come back around and say, Hey, actually, we gave you that money by mistake, so you need to give that money back to us. Um, it's called clawbacks. And for a bigger clinic like the one I was working for, they had multiple locations. It's a it's like a pretty big clinic. Um it's not as big of a deal as let's say a small clinic with like maybe one or two providers that only has one location. Like that would be devastat, that's devastating to clinics like that. Um, so that's something to keep in mind. But it just it doesn't really sit right with me. Um, or it didn't really sit right with me, just getting that training. Um, because we're we're getting training, and the reason why I'm saying this is because we would get training that made it really clear that like once the patient is able to, you know, like get in and out of bed, in and out of the car or whatever, and like walk to work or you know, all of these things, then at that point they're good, and then they should be discharged from from physical therapy. So that also didn't sit right with me as a person who is doing this higher level activity, who's doing CrossFit and you know, snatching and like uh doing all these other things is definitely a lot more complicated than being able to brush my hair. Um and so another gap that I saw when I uh once I became a physical therapist, where a lot of people with either busy schedules, like usually work schedules that overlapped um with our clinic hours, and or high co-pays. So a lot of clinic hours happen at the same time as um people's work hours. And so if a person is fortunate to have like a day off during in the middle of the week, like they would have to spend part of their day off coming to the visit. And you know, going back to my experience with going to physical therapy on my days off, like I know that time is precious. Um, so yeah, so they would only come once a week a lot of times. Um, and same thing with people with high co-pays. So I feel like it's become more and more common for people to have to pay like 50, 75, 100 for each visit, like every time they come in. If you're coming twice a week, that's that can add up to like $200 a week. That's a lot of money. So a lot of times these people would come like once a week. We we'd try to make it so they only came once a week. But if they're not doing anything in between their sessions, like that just prolongs the amount of time that they have to keep coming to physical therapy, or sometimes eventually they they just stop coming, they they kind of like give up and we're like, you know, this is this is taking too long or whatever, and like stop coming. Um, but secondly, if they're only coming once a week, there's no follow-up between sessions. So I had this realization with one of my patients who had a pec tear. They had torn their pec while bench pressing and they fell under the high copay category. So I believe their copay was like $100, so they were only coming once a week. Um, and uh we got to the point where uh they were ready to start um progressing towards being able to bench press again. Initially they were really afraid and had sworn off of bench pressing ever again in their life. Uh, but once we got to like like the push-up portion, that was their initial goal. Um, they they were able to do a full push-up on the ground. Um and then realized, okay, that wasn't too bad. Maybe I'll be able to get back to bench pressing again, actually. And so the clinic was not equipped for uh a normal barbell bench press. We had a bench and dumbbells um and a smith machine, so no uh barbell, no free barbell. And so I gave instructions on how to um basically progress to bench pressing with that barbell uh at the gym. And you know, I gave this person their homework. I'm like, okay, try this this week, and then I'll see you next week. And the week so the next week comes, and then I ask, okay, how did bench pressing go? And then they admit to me that they didn't try because they had been really, really scared uh to to bench press with the barbell, even the empty barbell again, um, which is very valid because that's how they had injured themselves to begin with. And um so they were scared, and also they had forgotten what I told them, um, and so they just stuck with normal. Or not normal, but they just stuck with uh dumbbell bench pressing um with some uh lighter weights. And so um I was able to convince them to try again the following week, and so they were able to get back to bench pressing with confidence, but I mean that delayed their care by a week essentially because they um there had been no way to get into contact with me to get that reassurance to and to be reminded of their homework or of how to progress or ease into bench pressing. So that's when I realized that beyond there being no follow-up between sessions, these types of people end up falling through the cracks because you know, at up to that point we had achieved pretty much everything except returning to bench pressing. So what if they just um instead of coming back, they just decided, okay, I'm just I guess I'm just never gonna return to bench pressing. But what if it was something else? What if it was something more critical for their sport? Um and the reason why I'm so passionate about this category of people, I guess you can call it, is because uh when I talk to people, like not everyone has been sedentary for like their whole life. Like there's definitely a lot of people who were active for a while and then got injured, um, and then never just never returned to the same level they were before, or they just never returned to being active again, either because they were afraid of injuring themselves again, or they were never given the guidance to return to being active, and then so then they they become sedentary. And as we all know, being sedentary um increases or increases your risk of getting different diseases and just and health issues and all of that, and so you know, a lot of people will target the people who are already sedentary, but that's why I want to prevent that from happening. I want to keep people being active and not have to experience the same thing that I did when somebody was sent like me finding something I enjoy doing, which is CrossFit, and then having somebody tell me, Oh, yeah, I don't care if you enjoy it, I don't care if it keeps you active. Um, like don't do that because I don't, you know, I don't like it, type of thing. So that is the gap that I saw with the people that I worked with in the clinic, and so that's when I uh started my practice as a side hustle. So I was still working full-time at the clinic, and then eventually I just I decided I couldn't do this anymore, and I decided to quit and go to my practice full-time. And the biggest driver of that was my frustration with insurance and not wanting to play games anymore, essentially. Um, so at the time I had a lot of patients with the pretty much the same insurance, and uh all of and this insurance required prior authorization. So, what that means is after the evaluation, we have to ask the insurance company, even though they have a referral from the doctor, or both of them actually had surgery. So they will have surgery, they had a referral from the doctor, but we still have to ask permission from the insurance company base or not permission, but we have to ask the insurance companies if they will be willing essentially be willing to pay for these physical therapy visits, and so it's the insurance company that's dictating whether this person gets to have get physical therapy. Um, and the first person um they had shoulder surgery and um they needed to lift a certain amount of weight uh and hold it away from their body as part of their job tasks. So this person did phenomenal uh in their rehab, and so again, we were at that point where we were almost to the end of their rehab, but they just still had like like I think they needed maybe a couple more visits just to finalize some stuff so they can return to work fully with confidence. And but we had reached the end of our already approved visits, so this is like this was the I think the third time that I was going to be talking to their insurance company, and so I give the insurance or the front desk gives their insurance company a call, and then so I talk on the phone with the person, and the person is not the one that's making this the decision, so they're asking me questions from the computer, and then they input, and these are yes or no questions, so they input my answer to the computer, like yes or no, and then from there they click a button and it's the computer that says whether like some algorithm that determines whether or not the the patient is gonna, you know, be approved for more visits or they're gonna whether they're gonna deny more visits. And so I don't remember specifically what question it was, but um I ended up like even when they asked me the question in my head, I was like, Oh, I don't know how to answer this. So I ended up answering yes, I believe. I think I think now that I'm thinking about it, I think the question was something along the lines of like have they met all of their goals? And the reason why I hesitated is because during the their re-evaluation that I did, um, that I have to do in order to ask these uh, you know, ask for more visits. Technically, they had met all the goals that I had planned like four weeks prior or whatever. However, now they had new goals that they had to meet in order to return to work fully. So technically, yes, they met their goals, but I so I could answer the question yes because yeah, they did meet their goals, or truthfully, no, they didn't meet their goals because now we had new goals. Um, and so but I ended up answering yes, and then at the end, when the person clicked the button, uh we were denied more visits. And then I was like, wait, so so then I was like, wait, can we go through this again? And so we go through the questions again, and and then instead of saying yes to meeting their goals, I say no. Um, and then magically we were approved for four more visits. So that was just like, wow, this is a stupid game, but whatever. And um, so I I think I was already kind of just like like wow, this is like a game, like these are people's lives, and these insurance companies, or this one in particular, is treating like is treating it like it's a game, basically. So fast forward a couple more weeks, and a different patient, this one had uh a knee surgery, um, an ACL surgery actually. So I knew at a bare minimum they would need to be coming for at least three to four months to physical therapy. Um, I think one of the problems with their insurance company is that we had already used up some, I think they had 20 visits that they could get per year. Like the insurance company had like a maximum of 20 visits that they would pay for, but we still had to ask for permission for them to pay for those visits. So we had already used a few of those visits before the surgery as prehab. And so now this is after the surgery. And so um I called the insurance company, and uh this is the second time after the insurance uh after the surgery. So initially they had given us eight, and I was expecting them to give us eight more. Um and I think we had already kind of tried to stretch out some of these visits, uh, so it was like six weeks um after the surgery, and so I called the insurance company and we go through the questions, and at the end, they're like, okay, they were approved for four more visits. And I'm like, four? Um, like, what is four gonna do? Like, if they're coming twice a week, that's only gonna last like two weeks. Like, we're at this point now where we're gonna have to start ramping some stuff up, and then they're like, Oh, well, you could, you know, you're always welcome to call again after the four visits to ask for more. And I'm and I I was really frustrated. I think it was like a really busy day that day, so I was just kind of like, with what time am I going to like call back to get more of these visits? Like, I don't understand why we were not approved for eight visits, at least for at two times a week, that's like a month, versus four is only two weeks, and then I mean, like, you know, it was out of the patient's or not the patient, it was out of the person's hand. Like I mentioned before, like they're just inputting your the answers to these yes or no questions into the computer. So it's really like the computer algorithm that's dictating whether the insurance company is gonna pay for these visits. So that was that was the moment I was like, I can't do this anymore, I can't play these games, I cannot look my patients in the eye and say, like, you know, we're gonna do the best we can, but like my hands are tied with their insurance, basically, like, because again, they only had like you know, 20 visits that they can have per year. So we're we already had a plan for how we were going to use up those visits um in the next three to four months, but then this kind of derails it, and you know, I feel like I go above and beyond for my patients, but if this had been anyone else, they they might have been like, okay, well, the insurance only gave four and you know, been on their way. So I was like, I I can't I can't do this anymore. Like I was I was burnt out. Um, and uh I went home that day, talked to my husband, and we decided that um it would be okay, we would be okay financially if I quit my job and went like maybe did some per diem work um and focused on my business full-time. And so when so at the time when I decided to switch over to my business full-time, there were a couple things that I realized needed to happen. So, one, I needed to be able to provide value to my clients in this cash pay business. Like, and I don't mean like, oh, now that you know insurance isn't paying me, all of a sudden I don't have like these insurance constraints and I can provide more value. Like it doesn't happen automatically. Um, because I feel like what ends up happening is a lot of people will go to their cash pay and yeah, we can spend a little bit more time with patients or whatever, and like do some other stuff that like like technically dry needling is not paid for by insurance, so now we can do like dry needling or like other things that insurance doesn't pay for. But in my mind, it still does not make up for the fact that before let's pretend they were paying like a $40 copay, and now like my prices technically were cheap, like everyone kept telling me to raise my prices already. But but now without their insurance, they're gonna be paying me $125. And I it's not like I was holding myself back before, like in the insurance clinic, and then now I can like treat better. Like I was giving the same value I was working in a normal clinic as now I am in my cash pay business, like 100% or more. Like um, like I didn't magically become a better clinician or something just because I wasn't working for an insurance clinic. And so that was difficult for me to reconcile at first. I'm like, like I felt really bad trying to charge cash for something that I knew like someone might have been paying $40 for, especially because I I know the argument is like, oh, but now it's one-on-one for like an hour or whatever. But at my old clinic, um, that particular location had a lot of like cancels and no-shows. So there were some times where I would only have one patient for an hour. Like, I mean, it wasn't planned that way, but there were several instances where I could get an entire hour with a person and give them my full attention. So again, it was like, you know, I'm giving them all this value and all they paid was $40. Like, how am I going to reconcile that with having them pay $125 now for the same thing, basically? And so so one of the things that really helped me provide more value is adding that remote component because now I could have continuity between sessions, um, I can decrease the amount of time this person is wasting driving to a clinic and back, and especially because I'm targeting people who are already working out, who are already active, they can do their exercises at the gym like before their normal workout. And so adding that remote component, uh component and that continuity between sessions kind of really added to that value. Um, being able to make things more efficient because now we don't have to bill for time or or use like time stuff for billing, um, and all these other like insurance bullshit. Uh then they don't have to spend like 40 minutes doing all these exercises that are redundant. Now I can make their exercises concise, pick like the three or four um more important ones that they can do as like their warm-up before their workout, and then so that saves the person time and also makes it more focused, um, and also makes it integral integrates it with their training plan because as we all know, or as we should know, rehab isn't limited to just the session itself, like it's how it's able to integrate with that person's life and their training. So the only reason why physical therapy clinics usually recommend like coming in two to three times a week is because you know, a lot of people know that patients are not gonna be doing stuff at home. Like, yeah, we give you homework to do at home, but a lot of people don't do it at home. And so that's why they come to the clinic more often. Um, and and a lot of people have told me that too, as well as like, oh, you know, like if I do it on my own, like I like I'm not gonna do it unless there's somebody there to make me do it. So, but if you don't, if you have limited time, then you have no choice but to do your homework at home, to do your home exercise program. And so in that case, if the majority of your time uh in rehab is spent doing home exercises, for example, if you're only going to a session one time a week and the two other sessions are home sessions, why not do your sessions three times a week and only have sessions every few weeks when we need to re-evaluate certain things? Um because even I can update people's exercise programs in between sessions as well based on their feedback and how they're doing. Like I can, if things are too easy, I can progress them, if they're too difficult, I can regress them. And so being able to practice in a way that's more time efficient for the person, that has more continuity between sessions, and allows them to be able to do their rehab or integrate their rehab seamlessly or almost seamlessly into their schedule provides, in my opinion, a lot more value than trying to do things the traditional way. And so in conclusion, so at the end of the day, after experiencing this system both as a patient and a provider, um, it's become really clear to me that traditional physical therapy is, I mean, is not bad, but it's clearly designed to get people back to normal life, like daily life, and not necessarily back to training, which is what like these athletic adults, these more active individuals are trying to do. And secondly, um, rehab doesn't always happen during the appointment. The time in between appointments matters as well. So if somebody wants to get better a little bit faster, then utilizing that time well is in their best interests. Um and for people so for people who want to stay active and lift and run and compete, it leaves a huge gap between traditional physical therapy and the type of care that they deserve. And so that gap is what led me to start Anteater Physical Therapy and Performance, and um it's a huge driver for why I run my practice the way that I do. So that's the story behind Anteater Physical Therapy and Performance. If you enjoyed this episode, I would really appreciate it if you could leave a rating. And that's it for now. Thank you for listening, and I'll see you in the next conversation.