SHOP TALK - Episode 4: Training Splits

This week on Shop Talk, Tyler and Trevin talk about the most common training splits, the pros and cons of each split, and the science behind the way they train themselves along with their clients. 

Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:01

Hey, welcome to Shop Talk. I'm Trevin and I'm Tyler. We are here to break down the latest trends in rehabilitation, strength, and conditioning all through the lens of evidence-based practice. Our goal is simple. Cut through the noise in the fitness industry and talk about what actually works, why it works, and how you can apply it. On today's podcast, we'll be diving into training splits. Yes.

SPEAKER_03 0:24

Great topic. Before we get started, I want to ask Trevin a question here. Have you ever done PT before?

SPEAKER_00 0:31

You know, I did do some PT in high school with Brian Huntsman. Nice. We've talked about him a little bit. Yep. And that was just because he's from Shelley, and that's where I played, that's where I went to high school and played football, right? So he was a big part of our program in terms of taking on that athletic training role. So I spent a lot of time with Brian. I it was so long ago, I can't even remember what he did on me, but it was a bunch of crazy stuff. I think it was super helpful. I back then he was doing a lot of the ultrasound stuff, um, STEM, things like that. We've talked about it. Yeah for sure. Yeah, I honestly can't remember. Other than that, in college, I had a couple injuries, uh, third-degree ankle sprain, uh strained MCL, a couple of things that weren't, you know, career ending, but were pretty annoying. And I worked a lot with athletic trainers at that point, not necessarily PTs. Nice. Um, but it probably would have been very helpful.

SPEAKER_03 1:28

Well, dude, we hey PTs and ATs, very, very similar. Um, ATs are more on the field, and then they can kind of see the injury through the whole season, which is really cool. Um, oftentimes PTs are just brought in for like the main rehab portion, and then you know, kind of away from there. But that's awesome. I just wanted to, you know, lighten the mood a little bit, ask you a fun question. Um, I also saw Brian Huntsman for PT for my back. That's hilarious.

SPEAKER_00 1:52

Brian's a cool dude. He's great. Uh you guys don't know Brian. Get to know him, he's a cool dude.

SPEAKER_03 1:56

Yeah, I think he's retiring soon. Is he really? I think so.

SPEAKER_00 1:59

I mean, you're his competitor. Actually, I've changed my mind. Um, everybody come to the fizzy shop. Tyler is the best PT around.

SPEAKER_03 2:04

Oh man. No jokes. We love we love all PTs. We love all the clinics here. Uh it just depends on who you mesh well with and what your training should look like. Heck yeah. So I guess like what you're kind of looking for. But anyway, let's uh let's dive into weekly training splits, dude. So um I wrote a few notes here about like what works best for general population, for athletes, and then power lifters like myself, like the way I still train. And then you wanted to talk about like your own training split, and then you wanted to talk about interference effect and compatibility and things like that. So this episode I'll definitely be asking you a lot more questions, but I just want to dive straight into it. So I think it's important to remember that um frequency, volume, things like that are the most important thing across like a training week, right? So when we say split, that's usually what we're talking about is like a week-to-week basis and how your volume and your frequency is broken apart in that. So I wrote down like the most common training splits. So I'm gonna just go through these really quick because I know that you wrote some down as well. But for me, like bro splits, right? So chest and try, quads and calves, back and bicep, and then hitting chest on one day, and then moving on to like a deadlift with a glute day, and then arms and shoulders and everything. So that's one training split week to week. Another one is upper lower splits, which is awesome for athletes. That's one of my personal favorites that I do, especially for athletes that are super busy with multiple sports. Working on an upper split and then a lower split, you can do it two times up to like four times a week. Like it's it's awesome. And then push-pull legs. This one has become really common with like Jeff Nippard. You know Jeff Nippard, yeah. Science-based lifter. Absolutely, right? And he's great, he puts out a lot of great content. Um, but his whole thing was push-pull legs for the longest time. He marketed that forever, and that was his training split. Um, which is not a bad thing. We can dive more into the science behind all of these, but yeah, no question. Oh, go for it.

SPEAKER_00 4:05

Yeah, sorry to interrupt. How much of that is biased right? Because you said Jeff Nippard, for example, he's like push-pull legs, you said, correct? And that's something that has worked for him. Do you think a lot of people will market their training split because it's worked for them and they're not necessarily taking into account somebody's lifestyle?

SPEAKER_03 4:25

100%, 100%. And I hope we can dive further into this when I start asking you questions too. But it's like some of the patients or the athletes that I see, they don't have time to do push-pull legs, push-pull legs, right? And only have one rest day because it's like they're playing sports. Oh, they have kids, like so many other things in life where that volume or that training split might not work for them. So that's a great question. Yeah, we will get into that here shortly, but absolutely. I just want to know your opinion on that. Yeah. I I think people are very biased. I'm still biased towards like a powerlifting split because you know, I like being strong. So it's like, for me, I'm like, I want everyone to be strong, right? So I love powerlifting splits, but it's not for everyone, right? Like that just kind of strength only working on combo lift, like, you know what I mean? It's not for everyone. So I also wrote down full body. So full body split, like doing it three times a week. That's a great way to get volume in for upper, lower, everything, like every muscle group, and do it in a decent amount of time, right? Research has shown that you really can do a full body workout and recover well. You just have to space apart those training days for sure. So um cool. So, yeah, those are the ones that I wanted to write down. Like the most common ones that I hear about is like, you know, of course, the bro split doing like two times a week, tricep kind of thing, you know.

SPEAKER_00 5:45

So yeah. No, I have a lot of these written down as well, and I wanted to go into a little bit more detail on a couple of these. I have pros and cons of each, and I want the listener to understand that they should pick the split that's going to fit their lifestyle the best. So this isn't a dog on any of these, and this isn't me necessarily promoting one or the other. There's one of these that I use, and me personally think is the best for the majority of people, but that is totally up to the listener to decide. Yep. You did miss out on one training split though. It is uh, I call it the kitchen sink. Okay, and that's the I just showed up here, bro, and I don't know what I'm doing. And I want to do everything. So that's the machine to machine, a little bit of this and a little bit of that.

SPEAKER_01 6:29

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 6:29

And I think we're all guilty of that at some point. 100%.

SPEAKER_03 6:32

Like in high school, dude, when I was showing up and like my parents were dropping me off at the gym, I was showing up and like, oh, that machine's open. I'll take that one. Dude, do whatever it is.

SPEAKER_00 6:40

Kitchen sink. Yep. Yeah, I would show up in high school. So I had the gym at the school, right? But I also had a membership to the end of time fitness. Dude, I just go in there and I didn't know what the heck I was doing. A lot of chest deck, a lot of bicep curls, tricep extensions. Absolutely. You know, just anything to look good, right? Just trying to look good. So kitchen sink. Don't do the kitchen sink method.

SPEAKER_03 7:02

Yeah, you know, periodize, try to try to try to track, you know, what you're doing and what machines you're using and and your volume per week, because that's how you're gonna get the most good, right?

SPEAKER_00 7:11

So yeah, and there's nothing wrong with the kitchen sink. I think especially younger kids getting into the gym, it's it's a culture, it's fun to get into the gym, mess around with different different things, you're hanging out with the homies. Nothing wrong necessarily with the kitchen sink. There's more optimal ways, but if you're getting in the gym and you're experimenting, great. Yeah, yeah, I love that. Yeah, cool. So, okay, so I want to dive into my first here, and that's full body training. I put this one first because this is the training split that I follow. Full body training to me is more of a practical approach to resistance training. There's more flexibility, it's more forgiving, it's better for maintenance, and it is better for concurrent training in the fact that you can integrate other training characteristics. For instance, aerobic training, anaerobic anaerobic training, pymetrics, speed and agility work, things of that nature.

SPEAKER_03 8:06

Just for the listener, talk about aerobic versus anaerobic, just really quick.

SPEAKER_00 8:11

Yeah, so we're talking about energy systems here, right? So, aerobic energy system to make it simple is anything over three minutes, essentially, anything basically cyclical. There's different heart rate zones and different intensities and methods with an aerobic training, which is something we will cover in a different episode.

SPEAKER_01 8:30

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 8:31

Anaerobic energy system, I would say anywhere from 30 seconds up to two minutes done at probably a pretty high intensity pace.

SPEAKER_01 8:40

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 8:41

Good example of this would be going 30 seconds really hard on the Echo bike and then taking a one to three, one to five work to rest ratio.

SPEAKER_01 8:50

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 8:50

So that's the big difference. We don't need to necessarily get into the adaptations today or which one you should choose over the other. That's a topic we can get into, but that is in general the definition of those. Yeah, very basic.

SPEAKER_03 9:04

And that's perfect. It's perfect just for the listeners. So yeah, um, yeah, keep going on full body and and and you're split. Sorry to interrupt, I just wanted to control questions.

SPEAKER_00 9:13

You had talked about full body training previously, and you said, hey, if you have kids, spouse, work, school, hobbies, yeah, you have all of these other things that you have in your life. Full body training allows you to give attention to those things without missing anything in the gym necessarily. For example, if you did a squat pattern, a hinge pattern, a push pattern, a pull pattern, and something in the transverse plane, you're covering the majority of the movement patterns that you need um for life. Yeah. Let's say.

SPEAKER_01 9:48

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 9:49

If I'm programmed three days a week of full body training and my kid's birthday shows up, my wife has a hard day and she needs me to stay home and sit and talk with her. I mean, there's a list of things that could come up, right? If I've already hit full body once or twice a week that day, I've already hit my quota in terms of at least maintenance. Right. And I don't have to think, oh, well, I do body parts split and I've missed chest two weeks in a row. What the heck?

SPEAKER_03 10:19

Right. And you're missing out on that volume for chest specifically. Absolutely. Rather than, oh, I was only able to make it to the gym, let's say twice this week, right? But you hit your whole body, right? And you did all these functional patterns, which to me, that's a lot better than skipping a whole body part or like skipping out on bench press. Like for me, that's how that would work, which would suck.

SPEAKER_02 10:40

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 10:40

Um, but you know, like you said, it's just more flexible for people that have a lot more going on, like outside of the gym when this isn't their full-time job, you know?

SPEAKER_00 10:49

Yeah. So and you might look at lit training a little bit differently than me. And I've kind of trained changed my perspective on it. I like to think of my training day as movement patterns more so than muscle groups. I'm less concerned about hitting a muscle group, more concerned about like, hey, can I move well in this pattern? That makes sense. And that's why like breaking it down into push, pull, squat, hinge, and some kind of rotational movement. It's basic, it's simple. You hit most of your major, all of your major muscle groups, right? And then you can specify from there if you have additional time or you want to integrate other things. I love it. Yeah. I love it. I think that's sweet.

SPEAKER_03 11:31

And how long have you been doing that?

SPEAKER_00 11:33

I've been doing full body for the last two, three years, actually. Nice. A lot of that has to do with my integration of more aerobic work. Secondly, I've came across a lot of good information actually through social media from a couple really good coaches. So if you're listening, you guys should really look into Jason Brown. On Instagram, I believe he's Jason Brown coaching. I actually did his training program, and that's what kind of sucked me into the full body approach because I wasn't a fan before I started doing that, and I adopted it super quick. Nice. Jason Brown coaching and then Joel Jameson. Yeah, he's talking to me about that. Yeah, Joel's great. He's got a lot of good information on conditioning. So if you are somebody like myself that doesn't have a a huge background in conditioning, which I think is a lot of us, dive into some of his work and you'll be amazed at the difference it can make by implementing just a couple of things that he prescribes. That's awesome.

SPEAKER_03 12:35

So that's awesome. And that's the good side of social media, right? Absolutely. Yeah, absolutely. Yeah, yeah. No, that's cool. Um, full body is a great, a great split, and I wish I could do it with every patient and every client that I work with, honestly, to get them completely strong and with these functional patterns and everything, like you said, like a squat pattern, a hinge pattern. Like I love that. Um, in rehab, that's not usually how it goes, right? So it's a little bit more than that. Yes, absolutely. Um, let's move into upper lower because both of us I think like this one. Um, I really enjoy this for the athletes that I train. So I'll let you dive into it.

SPEAKER_00 13:10

Yeah. When I think of upper lower splits, I would say it's better for specificity, especially if you're an Olympic weightlifter, powerlifter, right? You're allowing complete rest between those training days, and it it does allow for more training volume throughout the entire week. Whereas a full body training split, you only have so much time you can train in the gym and so much volume that you can recover from. So although you're crunching those things in the same day, it's reducing the amount of overall volume you can get per muscle group if you're only training, let's say, once or twice a week. Right.

SPEAKER_03 13:42

Which some people, that's all they have time for. Right. That's why full body can be so good, is because it's like, yeah, if I can only make it in a couple times, whatever, that's great. But yeah, the upper lower does help with volume across the week.

SPEAKER_00 13:54

It also allows you to be more specific. Right now, I'm not super specific. I am a tactical athlete, so I do train that way. And I believe full body is better for that population. Specificity for a field athlete or a power lifter, for example. This allows you to be very specific on your lifts. For sure. Which again, full body is more general population, more keep it simple, stupid. Upper lower is gonna be for people that have the time availability to show up to the gym every single day and hit their split. They're not missing days, they're being consistent on this. And this is why it's great for athletes. They have a little bit less life responsibility. They might have school, they might have a job, but the total life stress that they have is a little bit less. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 14:44

And I like, and you know, this is a little bit I'm not trying to go down the rabbit hole here, but even with the athletes that I only see twice a week, too, this is what's crazy is that I still can do an upper lower split with them. Which seems crazy because I'm still focused on those functional patterns, right? In terms of like effective dose, right? I want to make sure that you're hitting the volume and the frequency to actually get muscle size, muscle strength, everything like that. But uh I kind of blend it. So the focus for let's say Tuesday would be like a lower body focus, but then we still do like a rotational movement. We do a throwing motion, right? For golfers, we do a transverse plane like shift kind of motion, right? But it's still our strength day is like a squat motion. And then on the upper day, we work on like an overhead press for like our main strength portion, right? And then we move into like a horizontal press and then we do more rows, but we're still doing like there's a little bit more crossover, which is cool because some athletes only work with me like two days a week, but then they go do their own stuff at the gym otherwise, right? Which not my favorite thing. If I could see an athlete three times a week, four times a week, that's optimal for sure. Um, but it still works, right? I've seen great gains with that, especially like carryover to sport too.

SPEAKER_00 16:03

That is something we should remember for further episodes is discussing the interference effect that young athletes are causing by doing too much. Yes. Going to football practice and then a seven on seven tournament, and then going in, you know, running around with friends, and then going in late at night and hitting a bro split with the homies. Yeah. Like it's detrimental. Detrimental, right? Especially for young athletes. Absolutely. And these athletes really, and I'm a victim of this, is that mindset of I have to do more, I want to be the best. Just do more, do more, do more. And I think as a kid, you you're seeing, and you don't know what it is, but you feel like crap.

SPEAKER_01 16:41

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 16:41

And you think it's a good thing, right? It's that gold star we talked about in our last episode of like, no, I should feel this way, like, no pain, no gain. Like, I want it more than the next person because I'm waking up earlier and I'm training harder. And hitting three days. I'm hitting three days, like nobody can touch this. Bro, I was like digging myself in such a deep hole. I would have loved to see how much better I felt mentally, physically, if I would have just stuck to a program that, you know, was tracking my volume, intensity, taking my recovery into consideration.

SPEAKER_01 17:13

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 17:13

So, not to dive into that. I think that's just more of a note for me and you. Absolutely. Moving forward. I think that's important.

SPEAKER_03 17:19

Um, and that's and that's what's hard, right? Like personal training can be expensive. I try to make it as affordable as possible. But then like PT can be expensive if you're cash pay. So it's like I can only see these patients or these clients so often, right? And like what fits their budget and their time. So it's like I do my best to manage the volume that they do here that will also match their lifestyle, whether it's the the skill that they're doing in a warehouse working on sprints and overload training and stuff like that, or it's actually being out on like a golf course and you're playing 36 holes in a day or something, you know. So, anyway, that's that's just a little bit of a deep dive there, but we can we can move on from that for sure.

SPEAKER_00 17:58

Absolutely. I'm gonna bring it back to something you said, and it's technique. So when you're doing an upper lower split, you're giving yourself more time to focus on certain movements. So for people that are just getting started in the gym, a full body approach might not actually be the move because maybe that's too many exercises for you to try to learn right away.

SPEAKER_02 18:20

Yes.

SPEAKER_00 18:20

Where doing an upper lower training split with only a couple of exercises with a high enough volume to stimulate adaptation might actually be the move until they get those neuro adaptations to actually master the movement.

SPEAKER_03 18:35

That is such a huge, huge thing too. Cause like I I've treated athletes who have never touched weights before, right? Huge. That's I I love that you brought that up because it does help with learning movements. Um, when you are trying to cram a full body day in there, if you're just using machines, great, like that's a little bit easier, right? But when you're working on compound lifts or Olympic lifts or dumbbell work, it's like, no, there needs to be some time to learn these movements first before we can progress.

SPEAKER_00 19:00

So yeah, and I would suggest to anybody that's just getting started, take the time to learn the movements first before progressing too fast. It is going to pay off so much in the future if you take that time instead of diving into a full body training split or even a body part split that is focused more on isolation type movements. Yeah, it's fun. You do get a lot of hypertrophy from training that way, but learning how to squat, hinge, push, pull, and small doses is gonna go so far in terms of adaptation long term.

SPEAKER_03 19:37

And and uh maybe, maybe I'm biased with this, but I don't get sick of it. I I got so sick of showing up to the gym and being like, oh yep, it's chest and tries today, right? Or oh man, it's my second squat day, right? Like the bro split kind of thing. I got so sick of it, like it got so mundane, I guess. It was the same thing every week. Um, for people that really like a strict schedule, maybe it works for them, right? But like there was multiple times where I had to skip the gym for dogs, wife, whatever, you know. So anyway, I like that you talked about the flexibility with like full body stuff that that's a big reason why you did it.

SPEAKER_00 20:12

So yep, exactly. Yeah, so I would say upper lower, just to conclude. It's practical, probably less than full body for most people, especially athletes, but it is still effective. Um, if you have a dedicated schedule, it's a lot easier to adhere to. That would be my concluding thoughts on upper lower. I think it's great all the way around, as long as you have the time for it. Yeah, absolutely.

SPEAKER_03 20:37

Yeah, and I think that's I think that's perfect. Honestly, you ended it perfect with yes, full body would be more beneficial, but hey, if you can't do it, like an upper lower and you're still learning lifts, that's a great way to start.

SPEAKER_00 20:50

So cool. Yeah, so my next one here is body parts split. And I think bodybuilding and gym baddies when I hear body parts splits.

SPEAKER_03 21:01

Oh yeah, bodybuilding for sure.

SPEAKER_00 21:03

I don't know what you mean by the gym baddies, but I I would assume just uh the bodybuilders, you know, the hip thrusts and the donkey kickbacks and the weird glute exercises you see in the gym all the time.

SPEAKER_03 21:17

Yeah, all the time, nonstop. Um, you know, some people have different goals than than us, I guess, you know? So no, I get it. It's funny.

SPEAKER_00 21:24

Yeah, no hate here.

SPEAKER_03 21:27

It's very common.

SPEAKER_00 21:28

Yeah, body parts are my least favorite, but I do have some pros here. Okay. I think body part split is great for getting high levels of volume, high levels of volume, but it leaves little room for other qualities because you're almost hyper focused on one thing. It's not really practical for most people outside of, I believe, bodybuilding groups or somebody that is solely desiring muscle hypertrophy. If that's true. Truly all you care about, and you're not considering cardiovascular health, you're not considering performance, velocity, speed, power, anything. If you really just want to look good naked, body part split might actually be it for you. But I'd also argue, what does your life look like outside of the gym? You actually have the freedom to consistently hit your body part split week after week after week.

SPEAKER_01 22:26

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 22:27

We have to remember that fitness is a lifestyle change. So you have to consider that when you're picking these training splits and think, okay, is this something I can adhere to long term? So maybe bro split is something, it's more of a short-term goal, like right before summer, maybe right before spring break. Like you want to get some hypertrophy, whatever, that is great. I just don't think it leaves a ton of room for again, other qualities or freedom. You're almost glued to the gym to where crap, dude. Like I skipped chess week last week because you know, Haley wanted to go catch a movie, and I really value my relationship. So I went and did that. But now in the back of my head all week long, I'm like, well, I didn't hit chest. Didn't hit chest, didn't hit chest. Next week, ironically, something else comes up. Crap, I didn't hit chest, I didn't hit chest, I didn't hit chest. So that's where I think it gets a little bit dicey. You have to be so strict and almost like an unhealthy way. Yeah. Like you were very tied to the gym on these bro splits. And that's if you're very serious about the gym. Most people aren't. But again, if if you're not that serious, bro splits probably aren't the best for you, anyways, because they're so specific.

unknown 23:35

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 23:35

I I think it's important to say too that like the training split, it can work. Absolutely. Right. Like you said, for hypertrophy and actually putting on muscle size and looking good, absolutely it can work. But with me, I think you brought up a great point that it forms sometimes really bad habits where I would skip out hanging with friends or with, you know, any significant other. And I would end up being like, no, got to hit the gym. And I'd be there for two hours focusing on a chest pump or a shoulder pump. You know what I mean? Like I've been there and it's really hard. And that is kind of the unhealthy side of that. Um, because we're big on fitness for sure, but I think overall it's health, like having a healthy relationship with the gym and your training and you're enjoying life outside of that too, and having a good balance. But this is no hate to bodybuilders that truly dedicate their lives day in and day out of like what they eat and how often they're going to the gym, like every single day. Like that's amazing. That is true dedication, truly. Absolutely. But to me, I always ask, like, okay, how long are you doing that? Right? Is this lifelong? Are you gonna try to be on stage? Or is this truly just what makes you happy? Right? If it doesn't make you happy, why are you doing it? Right? Like, if it feels like a chore, if it feels like a job, like the gym should be enjoyable. We talked about it last time. Like, find something that you enjoy, stick with that, learn how to program volume, intensity, frequency, all of that.

SPEAKER_00 24:58

So absolutely. And hats off to the bodybuilders. I couldn't do it just because I love to eat food. Fair. I love good food. I don't know if I could restrain myself from food for that long. Right. Kudos to you guys. I do understand that body part splits are great for muscle hypertrophy. One thing I do want to add, and this isn't calling anybody out or the bodybuilding community at all, but you have to consider the use of PEDs in body part splits to hit the high levels of volume that they are hitting to actually get adaptation and recover. Yes.

SPEAKER_02 25:39

Yes.

SPEAKER_00 25:40

Because people don't understand if you're doing a body parts split, let's say it's back and buys, it doesn't take an extreme amount of volume to see adaptation, especially if you're a beginner. And even if you're modern and advanced, the volume really isn't that high that you need to specifically train one muscle group once a week that hard. Yeah. Like I know there's a weekly accumulative volume that you need to hit to see adaptation. And whether that's four sets, six sets, eight sets, whatever, however many reps, like we can dive into the literature and and figure that out, but it's not as high as what you think it would be, right? And in order to hit some of those volumes, sometimes PEDs are necessary in that community. And I'm not calling people out. I just want people to understand the realistic nature of what that is. And yes, you have an entire week to recover from that training, but how much of that intensity has dropped after your fourth, fifth, sixth set, and now you're not really adapting adapting at all? This is just junk volume at this point when you would have been better off maybe doing an upper lower or hitting that muscle group two or three times a week at super high intensity with enough time to recover between bouts.

SPEAKER_01 26:52

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 26:53

So that is something to consider.

SPEAKER_03 26:55

Absolutely. And it's not like we're we're condoning that or saying, like, oh yeah, if you're on a bodybuilding split, like hop on, hop on gear. Like that's not what we're saying, but it's a very common thing, right? A lot of these people that are getting these crazy gains from a bro split and still recovering and managing life, and like, I don't know, just have energy, aren't just fatigued and overtrained. They are using some sort of enhancement, right? To be able to recover and manage that that type of training.

SPEAKER_00 27:20

So yeah, I will say this is something that I've seen a lot on social media, and it's more with hybrid athletes who are primarily aerobic athletes that intersperse body part splits into their training, right? They integrate these body part splits because they are solo fatiguing, because they're isolated movements, they're not really compound movements, right? So for somebody that likes to run and do endurance-based events, and again, you want to look good naked, it's not a bad, it's not a bad idea. If you're aerobic-based and you know that for the most part, there's not much interference effect on your VO2 max with the addition of small dose resistance training, why not? Why not go run around the river with my shirt off and be jacked? Like I get it, I totally get it. But that's integrating cardiovascular training and using a body parts split to maybe some fill some of the gaps that you have in terms of your aesthetic goals. Yeah. Again, nothing wrong with that. Some people are aesthetic, some people are performance. I was just about to bring that up. Hats off to everybody. No, go ahead.

SPEAKER_03 28:24

I was just about to say, so like with the hybrid athlete, right, throwing in a bro split and like just doing this hypertrophy training, great, right? Like you said, low fatigue over the week. But if they're interested in becoming a little stronger, um you know, maybe a little bit more aesthetic as well, but then also helping their running performance, that's when it's like, okay, then a bodybuilding split probably isn't the best thing for you. It's like that would probably be an upper lower split or a full body if you are an aerobic athlete that also wants the benefits and I don't know, the adaptations to help you run better and improve strength, like there's better ways to do it for sure.

SPEAKER_00 29:06

So yeah. I had a thought on that. We talked about the addition of resistance training to endurance athletes. And in regards to the body part split, you're still getting improvements in bone mineral density just with body part splits. So if you're an endurance athlete and you really hate the gym, you don't want to take the time to learn how to back squat to do a hinge pattern, Olympic lift, power lift, you name it. A body parts split, whether it's machine-based, dumbbells, kettlebells, whatever, it allows you to at least get that bone mineral density adaptation that you need for longevity. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 29:42

And it can help with strength too. Absolutely.

SPEAKER_00 29:44

You're gonna get improvements in strength. Absolutely. How well does that transfer into real life dynamic movements and running? Literature says not as well as you know, compound lifts or full body type exercises. But again, we're talking about aerobic athletes that are primarily focused on improving via two max or whatever their specific sport is. I don't think using a body part split in that situation is all that bad. Yeah, it's a lot easier to integrate um curls, tricep extensions, shoulder presses, hamstring curls, leg extensions, calf raises, things like that. Still gonna build strength, still gonna enhance performance by a little bit. Yeah. But it's just an easy way for them to maybe say, you know what, I hate the gym. I hate lifting, but this is bearable. Body part splits bearable, this isolation movements, it's easy. I can get in, in and out, yeah, super fast.

SPEAKER_03 30:36

That's an awesome point. Yeah, a little caveat there for sure. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 30:40

I think that's great. Okay. Last one I have is push pull. Honestly, guys, I think this is very similar to the upper lower. I really think this one just has to do with what your preference is. It's just another way to sequence your training. If it's something that you can adhere to and you actually like, I think there's a lot of benefits. Um, it gives you a little bit more variety than in upper lower because you're integrating upper and lower body movements in the push pull. So if you like to integrate different, a little bit of upper, a little bit of lower, so you feel like you're getting a more balanced approach to training and that's fun for you, that's awesome. I get pretty bored just training one thing for half an hour to an hour. So a push pull for me might be a little bit better because I'm integrating different movements. Yeah. So you're not a power lifter then?

SPEAKER_03 31:28

You can't hit one lift for two hours.

SPEAKER_00 31:30

Like I said, dude, like my bench press is embarrassingly bad. Like it's so bad. Like, if you're listening to this, chances are your bench press is way better than that's so funny. Without a doubt.

SPEAKER_03 31:43

Just to let everyone know, if you're listening to this, right? Trevan's a big guy and he's jacked. Like, I will tell you right now, when he's running on the treadmill, his stride length is basically the whole length of the treadmill. Like, he is a tall guy that still has a lot of muscle mass. So it's really funny to me when he admits like, hey, my bench press sucks. Like, because he just doesn't you don't train that way, right? You just don't train that way. You don't care. You you'd rather do these like more functional things, like you said, like rotation, push-pull patterns, you know, and and bench press is probably just not, you know, on the top of your list for priorities.

SPEAKER_00 32:15

So yeah, no, no kidding. My back squat's not much better. So you see me on the trap bars I lift, just know that's because my squat's pretty shit too. So I know I'm preaching all these like foundational movement patterns, but I need some work on my my back squat for sure. Like I said, man.

SPEAKER_03 32:32

Well, and and you've started to focus more. I think this is a good transition, honestly, into like your training and because you've been more aerobic lately. Absolutely, right? With cycling and running and everything like that. So it's like, once again, that's not a high priority for you to press a lot of weight or squat a lot of weight. Like you're you're working on your capacity for cardiovascular training.

SPEAKER_00 32:51

Absolutely. And to tie it back to my job, right, tactical world, a lot of it has to do with improving performance in my job. And that doesn't necessarily mean I have to be the best like power lifter.

SPEAKER_01 33:04

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 33:04

Nowhere in my job description is it say be a really good back squatter. It really doesn't. Exercise for me is just a tool to be a better tactical athlete, yeah, honestly. And me finding the best ways to do that with exercises that make me feel the best. I feel like I'm my performance is getting better because of those exercises. Why include something that maybe I don't like or I'd have to spend a significant amount of time developing to get the adaptation that I actually need? Yeah. Like if we can go back to like, I could fix my ankle mobility for sure. I could sit there and you know, you could put me through all these drills, but do I actually have time for that, or should I just hit the trap bar deadlift and get the adaptation that I actually need, right?

SPEAKER_03 33:48

I know you're gonna argue and tell me that I need to spend time fixing it, but you're so good. That's so funny. Hey, you you seem to be able to run and walk just fine.

SPEAKER_00 33:57

So, in terms of functionality, like PT wise, like I think you're okay. Yeah, man. Back squats for some reason, it's funny. It's just never I'd never feel good back back squatting. Like a low bar squat, I feel a little bit better for sure. Deadlifts, fine. Conventional, sumo, whatever, feel great doing that. For some reason, back squats always just I don't know, lit me up in a bad way. So maybe my technique is doo-doo.

SPEAKER_03 34:21

Dude, it's so funny that you're saying this because truly, I mean, the way you train is super intense. Like you have amazing muscle mass. Like, I'm not trying to like glaze here or anything, but like you're just a big guy. And and like you're focused on aerobic training right now, and like you're killing it. When you come in here on the runners and stuff, dude, like you're killing it. The other day you were doing one-to-one work to rest at 90%. Right 800 meter repeats. Oh my gosh. Yeah, it was it was rough. See, and to me, that's not a priority for me, right? Like, I'm not a tactical athlete, like I don't need to do that, right? Yeah, but uh in the gym, I like powerlifting, I like moving heavy weights, I think it's fun. I enjoy it, so like it doesn't feel like a chore when I'm doing that.

SPEAKER_00 35:01

So yeah, and that just goes back to finding the thing that you enjoy that gets you back in the gym every single day and excited to be here. Exactly. And it's fun, exactly. Right? Don't forget that you can have fun in the gym.

SPEAKER_03 35:11

Yes, it does not have to be grueling uh punishment every time you show up to the gym.

SPEAKER_00 35:15

So yeah, and just to to end this conversation on different body part splits, I really do think it a good reminder is finding something that you can stick to and adhere to. Anything that we talked about, there's pros and cons for any of them. You're probably not wrong if you pick one and you can stick to it, whether it's full body, push pull, body part split, upper lower, whatever. Find what works for you. And if you like it and it's enjoyable to you and you can see yourself sustaining that long term, then continue to do that. Don't let social media or an athlete or a physical therapist or a strength and conditioning professional tell you what to do. We have our biases for sure. We might have some pretty good input because of our background and experience. But truly, if it's something you can adhere to and you like it, do that. Hell yeah, do that thing.

SPEAKER_03 36:10

Yep.

SPEAKER_00 36:10

Yep. So 100%.

SPEAKER_03 36:12

And then get good at it. That's my favorite part, right? No matter what you choose to do and what you enjoy, just get better at it.

SPEAKER_00 36:18

If you like body part splits, get jacked, bro. Like it's sick, man. Yep, like blow up, that's awesome. Yep, like do it.

SPEAKER_03 36:26

Full send. I love it. Um, okay, cool. So I see your next thing here. Um, concurrent training. Is that what you want to jump into?

SPEAKER_00 36:33

Yeah, I think talking about training splits, I think it's important to talk about the integration of other characteristics. Yeah, for sure. Go for it. What concurrent training is, many of you may have heard this term, so I'm gonna define it loosely here. Concurrent training is the integrating of more than one neuromuscular or skill characteristic in the same training phase or training week. So, what this would mean is me training strength and aerobic fitness in the same training week. Now, that causes some issues, right? Where do I put aerobic training? Does it go before my strength training? Does it go after? Is there an interference effect? Is this aerobic fitness stilling my gains? It's questions that people ask. And I knew it for a really long time. So when I'm writing these things down and talking to you guys, I'm really asking myself questions that I wish I had the answers to earlier on in my fitness journey, right? Or in my athletic journey. So I mentioned interference, right? Well, here let me go back just a little bit. I apologize. I want to talk about the integration a little bit. So when I talk about integrating other things, we're talking about aerobic and anaerobic conditioning, which we touched on a little bit earlier, speed and agility training, repeat sprint ability, which we can get into later, and ply metrics. Tyler, is there anything I'm missing there in terms of like integration?

SPEAKER_03 38:02

I don't think so.

SPEAKER_00 38:03

Um I think prehab could be one, right?

SPEAKER_03 38:06

It could be. Um also just like you you have anaerobic conditioning, right? So I would assume that that's also talking about like just strength.

SPEAKER_00 38:14

Uh yeah, strength, strength capacity. Yeah. Right? Um, and usually concurrently, when you're talking or when you're talking about concurrent training, most of the time it's we're talking about strength and adding other things to improve strength. Which when I dive into the literature and we talked about this, it gets kind of confusing because people hear interference effect, and it's like this big scary word, and it's like, ah, if you don't just strength train, your gains are gonna go away if you do any kind of aerobic training. And we we said this, it was like, well, no shit. Like, if all I do is strength training, and then you have somebody over here that does strength training and cardiovascular training, they're not putting in as much work on strength training. Of course, they're not gonna be as strong. Right. Like we can get into like molecular pathways and recovery and whatever, but you're gonna get better at what you spend your time doing.

SPEAKER_03 39:04

Absolutely.

SPEAKER_00 39:04

To keep it simple, right?

SPEAKER_03 39:05

Frequency, volume, right? Like, and how much time and effort you're putting into those things. So if you start to take a little bit of that away for cardiovascular training, right? Aerobic training, um, that even 5% is no longer in the strength category. You took it over to cardiovascular training. Like that's just how our bodies adapt.

SPEAKER_00 39:21

So how strong is strong enough, right? Cool, I can keep raising this ceiling of strength, but what are these other things over here that I'm missing out on? Cardiovascular benefits, plymetrics, and can these things improve my performance more so than what strength has provided me to this point? Right. But there's a caveat here, strength is definitely the foundation for almost everything. Okay, and I think that's why people compare the interference effect in concurrent training to strength training. Because I think if you had a pyramid of exercise, I think strength training is right there at the bottom. I think you would agree with that. Yeah. So I talked about interference, right? And I'm going to define this for you. So interference refers to the attenuation or reduction in adaptations to one training stimulus due to the simultaneous or frequent inclusion of another competing training modality. Most commonly observed when endurance training negatively impacts strength and power development. So just to touch on, we talked about strength. I want to talk about interference with aerobic training. So if you're an aerobic athlete and you're incorporating monitored strength training, it has almost little to no effect on VO2 max, and a lot of times it can improve VO2 max in addition to performance through increased running economy and rate of force development. A lot of endurance athletes are really terrified to put on a significant amount of muscle mass because now they weigh more, right? So we want, especially longer endurance athletes. It's not super beneficial for you to be muscle bound, correct? But there's research indicating that you can get 14% just by including two days of resistance training a week, like 14% increase in running economy without any increases in muscle hypertrophy, right? So a lot of the strength training adaptations that they were getting were more neural and tendon-based, right? Increasing tendon um stiffness, right? Muscle stiffness, things like that. So that I just want to let you guys know that if you're an aerobic athlete and you're scared to strength train, it's totally okay. It's not gonna blend your VO2 max, and it's probably gonna actually improve your performance.

SPEAKER_03 41:24

And I want to make a note on that really quick. So um, not trying to make this about me, but my background more so. Um, so NAU, right? Northern Arizona University, where I got my doctorate for physical therapy. Um and then the clinic that I worked at, the physio shop that was there in Flagstaff, right? Flagstaff and NAU specifically were all about running, right? Running in the mountains, in the trees, and then their their track and cross-country team, one of the best in the nation, right? Like they are amazing. Um in our clinic, I treated mostly runners, runners with um overuse injuries, you know, tendinopathy, tendinitis, things like that. But then also like hip pain from runners, right? And hip instability and things like that that truly could have been avoided, or at least the pain could have been diminished if they added in some strength along with their training, right? Because I get it, they're they're terrified. They don't want to like get jacked or get too strong or too big or whatever because they think it hurts them and their sport. But truly it could help benefit them, right? And honestly keep them in the sport for longer and not on the sidelines watching, right? Because that's how injuries happen. Um, so runners, I will say right now, still one of the most common things that I see in the clinic that I treat, right? Um, because it's just so repetitive. It is uh oftentimes that you see overuse injuries with running.

SPEAKER_00 42:52

So what would you say is the best way to relay that to whether it's a high school aged athlete, college-aged athlete, or even a recreational runner? How would you get that point across to them that they need to start incorporating at least a little bit of resistance training? Because usually the pushback is pretty hard. It is. And people get pretty stuck in their ways about their current routine, especially if they've seen a lot of success doing aerobic training only without any plyometric training, without any resistance training. So, what would be your approach on getting through to those people? This is a hard question. So you need a second to think about it. Go ahead.

SPEAKER_03 43:34

I I love it. The first thing that pops into my head is trust the process. Like that's what I would tell them. Like to try to get them bought in and trust me, their provider or their trainer or whatever. I'm like, just give it time, right? If you work with me for a couple months, you will see the benefits, right? Oh, maybe your foot strike pattern is better. Oh, maybe your actual carry through and your toe off is more powerful. So You're actually getting longer strides, right? Oh, maybe no longer your right hip hurts, right? Because we started to balance the strength out a little bit because everyone has a dominant side and a non-dominant side, right? Those are normal things. But I would say try to trust the process and give it a shot, right? And then on top of that, to push it a little bit more, because you're right, the the pushback from the athlete is quite intense. Um, I would say, listen, this is like injury prevention for you, right? Don't even think about it as, oh, you're gonna get so strong and so jacked, and this is gonna increase your speed or running economy or VO2 max or anything like that, because oftentimes that just goes over their head. Just be like, this is your injury prevention. This will keep you running. How about that? Like that's the important part. I think that gets through to them a lot more because they're like, Yeah, I love running. Like, I want to keep running. So how can we do that? Keep you healthy and strong outside of running with some strengthening.

SPEAKER_00 44:53

I love that. Maybe even dosing it small at the beginning with like once a week, even a single set strength training program can see results in somebody that hasn't been doing a ton of resistance training. Newbie gains. Newbie gains, right? I think too it's important to discuss the range of motion benefits you get through resistance training. We talk about improving flexibility and mobility. The biggest bang for your buck bread and butter way of gaining more flexibility and mobility is just strength training through full ranges of motion. If you're having an endurance athlete that isn't running with, I guess, let's say, like full range of motion of the hip, and that's all they're doing is that same repetitive range of motion. Like how mobile is their hip actually? Um, maybe increases in range of motion uh gives them improvements in stride length, stride frequency. That's what I'm saying too.

SPEAKER_03 45:41

And uh the the biggest thing when you look at the foot strike and the return to foot strike, right? So like a whole gate cycle with an average runner, right? Somebody who maybe runs on the weekends and then an Olympic runner, right? Sure, stride lengths can be different, but in terms of a gate cycle, the biggest difference between the two of average runner and Olympic, right? Like you saying both, right? Is the amount of power they're putting into the ground. So not even in terms of range of motion, it's how much like force can you put into the ground to propel your body further? That's strength. That is plyometric work, that is power, that is like all of the things that I love preaching about because I suck at running, dude. Like, don't get me wrong, I I can run. I hate it though, right? I would much rather just live in the strength world and that's all I have to worry about. That's a lot more fun for me. But um so I think that's really important to tell to runners, too, right? That hey, it's not just about um your stride length or your setup on the blocks or anything like that. It's like how much force can you put into the ground to propel your body? Like that's as simple as it gets.

SPEAKER_00 46:57

Absolutely. Greater force development is huge. It's funny that you say, like when you see me running on the treadmill, like I understand I have long strides. Your strides are crazy. And I'm a bouncy runner. And everybody tells me Haley actually makes fun of me all the time. Really? Like, so when I did my high rocks, she's like, you just look like a gazelle or like a deer. Like you just that's crazy. Yeah, she so she's like making fun of me, right? And I get guys at work all the time talking about it.

SPEAKER_03 47:24

That's so crazy.

SPEAKER_00 47:25

But it truly is because of the rate of the rate of force development. I've been anaerobic for a really, really long time. I am strong and I have a lot of power and I can put that into the ground and move, right? That transition into more running and more endurance-based stuff actually have gotten a lot of benefit coming from the strength world in terms of how I run. Because I was sprinting before that.

SPEAKER_01 47:47

Yeah, right.

SPEAKER_03 47:47

And think about like your tendon health too. Oh, dude. Right? Like how strong your tendons are that allows you to run and do the volume that you need to do. Like, I understand everyone gets banged up here and there, but it's like your tendons are under a lot of load, right? Because like you're not a small guy, like you you weigh a lot and you're in single leg stance every single stride. So it's like, think about how strong your tendons have to be. So it's good that you have that background in strength and um like Olympic lifting too.

SPEAKER_00 48:12

Yeah, not to do my own horn. I just wanted to talk about the rate of force development and the importance of stride length, stride frequency, running economy, things like that. Yep. That's huge. Yeah, going back to interference, right? I know it's a scary word, and it is true that concurrent training can reduce strength, power, and hypertrophy versus strength-only training, but not a lot of people are only strength-only training. Maybe super advanced athletes trying to break world records, power lifters, Olympic lifters, where they are operating at such a high level they can't afford to lose that 0.5% decrease in performance by adding a little bit of cardiovascular training. There's probably some benefit to it, right? But they really don't have the time to mess with that interference effect when they're chasing gold medals, right? The interference effect, though, is typically small to moderate and it's not super catastrophic. So if you are somebody that wants to train concurrently throughout the training week, it's not going to kill your strength gains as long as the dose is managed appropriately. It's pretty negligible, basically, in highly trained individuals as well. Um, the more highly trained you are, the better you react to concurrent training, if that makes sense.

unknown 49:28

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 49:30

But out of all of the qualities, power is the most sensitive to uh the interference effect. So if you're trying to do a bunch of power training, speed and agility work, and then you're concurrently training that with aerobic training, there's a lot of evidence suggesting that rate of force development is affected by quite a bit by including aerobic training. So maybe if you're a power athlete, let's stay clear of high doses of um cardio, like aerobic training. I think cardiovascular health is important.

SPEAKER_03 49:57

But yeah, but it doesn't need to be running, it doesn't need to be like you know, running a 5k on the weekends or whatever, because it's like that wouldn't be important for your strength gains, regardless, or your power output, right? Absolutely. Yeah, that makes sense.

SPEAKER_00 50:08

Yeah, and interference really is dose dependent, right? It's gonna be have a greater influence with higher volumes, higher frequencies, and long duration endurance work.

unknown 50:20

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 50:21

So I did want to kind of talk about the best ways to control the interference effect if that is something you're actually worried about. So controlling the volume is gonna be the most important, right? It's interference is gonna be dose dependent. So if you're a strength athlete, you can incorporate a little bit of aerobic training or other characteristics. It just is gonna be dose dependent. And you can test and retest yourself and kind of figure out what that dose is. But if you're keeping the volume low, that interference effect isn't gonna play much of a role in your performance. Prior prioritizing the sequencing of your training sessions. If you're a strength athlete and you also want to do some cardiovascular training, even if you're just general population and you don't have a lot of time throughout the training week, so you have to do conditioning and strength in the same day, putting your strength training before aerobic training is gonna have a less of an interference effect of the if you did it inverse of that.

SPEAKER_03 51:15

Right. I mean, think about what's your priority, like you said. Like if you're a strength athlete, it's like, let's start with that then, yeah. Right. Like put that at the top of the list, and then everything else can fall under that. Cause yeah, you can add on some cardio, you can add on some running and stuff like that, but you already got the main bulk of work out of the way, and you were able to dedicate most of your energy to that, and then you can add on a little bit after.

SPEAKER_00 51:39

Yeah, and obviously including strength training and conditioning in the same training session isn't gonna be optimal. It's just not, but a lot of people are sitting in that category where they don't have a lot of time, and it is better to do both than to do one individually if your goal is longevity, for example. But if you're gonna do it and your goal is primarily strength, like you said, prioritize that first before the aerobic training, and same thing vice versa.

SPEAKER_01 52:05

Yep.

SPEAKER_00 52:05

Put your eggs in the basket that you're most wanting to improve in. Absolutely. That's how I would say that. So another one, and I think this is extremely important to talk about, is choosing low impact aerobic work. For example, the interference work of cycling compared to running is far less. So if you're really concerned about losing strength and you want to improve cardiovascular health, maybe choosing a cyclical pattern that isn't running to decrease that interference effect. So it can be cycling, rowing. You have we have the ski ercs now, which are great, or any combination of that. You can do a circuit, bike, row, ski erg, you know, for 30 minutes to 60 minutes and keep at all and still get cardiovascular benefit, right? Yeah. Sometimes you have to ask yourself, why am I running? Like truly, if you're not an endurance runner and that's not necessarily a skill that you want to obtain, why not just do some cyclical patterns that are low impact? And if you want to be a better runner, maybe do some shorter distance sprinting or like moderate distance runs, 400 meters, 800 meters, things that in my opinion are more practical, real world than running for miles and miles and miles.

unknown 53:13

Right.

SPEAKER_03 53:13

Yeah. I mean, that is music to my ears, right? Because it's like I hate running, but um, you know, I enjoy the occasional echo bike, right? And getting getting work in on that, like I truly enjoy it. So, and it's not like I've ever had any sort of interference effect, right? I'm not that high of a power lifter that it would truly start to affect me that bad. So it's like I I still enjoy it, but yeah, I always do any sort of cardio work that's gonna truly tax me at the end of the workout so that I know that I still hit my compound lifts the way I needed to.

SPEAKER_00 53:46

So and I think conditioning can actually be really fun this way. You don't have to attach yourself to necessarily one cyclical pattern. I think people get closed off and they think it's either running, cycling, swimming. There's a lot of different options out there. There's like high fitness, there is like these dance classes. If you're an avid hiker, if you like to walk, you can walk at a fast pace. There's other modalities of cardiovascular training that you can do that are actually pretty enjoyable.

SPEAKER_03 54:15

Not the stairs, though. Not stairmaster. Oh, dude.

SPEAKER_00 54:19

Dude, for all the girls out there, that seems to always be girls, right? That spend an ungodly amount of time on the stair climber. Bro, good for you. Good for you. I've been on those things about five minutes, and I'm like, get me off this thing, dude. This is awful.

SPEAKER_03 54:34

Yeah, I like to mix it in here and there. Um, sometimes, like uh with with rehab patients, whether like late stage rehab, right? Um, whether it's hip, knee, ankle, I'll put them on the stairmaster and make them go backwards, sideways, forward. Like it's it's awesome. It's a great tool. So if you haven't tried it, definitely give it a try. But yeah, if you hate it, don't stick with it. You can ride the bike, you can do a treadmill, you can row, you can ski, like so many other options.

SPEAKER_00 54:59

Yeah. I mean, if you know you need to train aerobically that day, maybe go ask your significant other if they want to go for a brisk walk outside. If it's nice, it's not gonna be as high of a you know, heart rate, whatever. We can get into the weeds, but you're still moving, right? If you walk at a brisk pace, most people can probably touch zone too, right? And get some adaptation there. 100%. The other ones maybe pickleball. Like go grab your pickleball and paddle or whatever, go play for an hour. Like pickleball is sick. You can get creative with aerobic conditioning. It doesn't have to be this miserable run on the treadmill, like we talked about last week. Cute.

SPEAKER_03 55:33

The people that are trying to fight a bad diet or or they're like, oh, I'm out of shape. So they hop on a treadmill and think they need to start running. It's like it'd actually be more beneficial if you lifted some weights here and then you went and walked outside, or like you said, played a sport or walked the golf course. I don't know, like anything else.

SPEAKER_00 55:51

So yeah, get recreational with it.

SPEAKER_03 55:53

Yeah, yeah. People just see treadmills, and I think like it's this whole stigma behind the gym because most gyms you walk in, you see 30 treadmills, you know what I mean? And there's always people on them. Yeah, and I hate that. Like here, we have a few treadmills, we have runners more than anything, so you can work on like sprints and like backward push and things like that. But yeah, dude, treadmills kind of drive me nuts sometimes.

SPEAKER_00 56:12

Yeah, I think people get sucked into that. We talked about a little bit last week. People walk into the gym, they see 30 treadmills. I think the first thing that clicks in their mind, which I understand is, oh, that must be really important because they have 50 of these. They have one squat rack, but they have 50 treadmills. So what is that relaying to the people walking through the gym? And one of my beef, one of my beefs with corporate gyms is that specifically. And it's definitely getting a lot better. Don't get me wrong, but what message are you sending to your clients, patients, whatever, when they walk through the door, and the first thing they see is treadmill after treadmill after treadmill, elliptical, elliptical, stair climber, whatever. They're automatically gonna think that's important. And the first thing that they're gonna do when they're starting their fitness journey is hop on the treadmill.

SPEAKER_03 56:58

Yeah, especially if they don't, if they don't know, right? Like if someone's new to the gym, I think that's what is irritating. Um, because people get signed up at a gym, amazing. I love people that go out of their comfort zone and and do that, but then they show up and they're like, okay, I guess I go on the treadmill. And then they'll spend 30 minutes, an hour on the treadmill. And it's like, dude, that is that's not the way to go, right? Like there's other ways to do things. Um, trying not to hate here. I'm really not like yeah, no, it's just crediting awareness. Absolutely. It's just hard when I see commercial gyms time and time again have so many freaking treadmills, and like you said, like one or two squat racks, and it's like, holy crap, dude. So I take pride that we have more barbells and squat racks here than we do treadmills, which is great.

SPEAKER_00 57:39

So and I just think that's goes to say we we just need more fitness professionals out there. We have a lot of conversations about the market being saturated. I think if it was saturated, we'd see a lot less treadmills in the gym. Yeah, we'd have a lot less confused people in the gym, right? We need people putting out good information like ourselves to get people to understand that you don't have to do these ridiculous things like hop on a treadmill when you haven't ran in five, 10 years. They don't know any better. They're gonna go and hurt themselves and push themselves till they're sick and then they hate it and then they drop out. Yeah, and then they have to come see me. Yeah, exactly. Like good for business, but you're a value-driven person and you don't want that, right? Nobody wants that. No, so yeah, find something that works for you cardiovascular-wise, that is enjoyable. Be recreational, go to the basketball court, run back and forth, shoot some hoops. I don't know. Find something fun, don't get crazy with it, just use something that you enjoy. Love it, I love it. Yeah, and then the last one in terms of um the interference effect, if it's something that you're worried about, right, is sequencing within the week. And you're gonna see it when I describe my program to you and how I like to sequence my week. It's like a high-low method, right? So I'm undulating my intensity throughout the week. And what that means is I'm not going back-to-back high intensity days, I'm going high intensity, low intensity, high intensity, low intensity, and I might even throw some moderate intensity days in there, depending on what my training goal is. This is gonna allow you to recover between those bouts of exercise and it's going to decrease that interference effect.

unknown 59:09

That's awesome.

SPEAKER_00 59:09

So if you are separating your strength days, if you're doing full body, full body, and then separating it with some aerobic conditioning, low intensity aerobic conditioning, one aerobic conditioning is going to aid in recovery, but also is gonna give you some time to recover to hit full body again the next day.

SPEAKER_01 59:24

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 59:25

No, that's awesome.

SPEAKER_00 59:26

So sequencing is super important.

SPEAKER_03 59:28

Sorry, really quick uh question. And we can talk about this later, but um, do you ever prioritize your um high intensity days with like heart rate variability?

SPEAKER_00 59:39

Yeah, so the way I like to use heart rate variability is typically so I have a heart rate monitor, like a chest strap, right? And I can put that on in the morning and it's gonna give me a real-time HRV. Nice. And that's gonna give me an idea of how well I'm recovered for the day, right? And a lot of people use HRV guided training, so they're using HIV HRV to tell them how hard they should go that day, how easy the training should be. And I've done that before using like a whoop, right? I've used a whoop band where it's tracking my HR daily HRV, it's giving me recovery scores, giving me how much strain I've had, and I think it's an extremely useful tool. Nice. Um, there were days that I was kind of in the tank and I actually felt like my HRV said I was in the tank, but I actually felt really good. Or there were days that I felt really good, but my HRV was crap. It's so interesting. So it's super interesting, but I think HRV is something important, and I don't think there's enough research on that, and there's there is some to look at. Um, if you're not familiar with Whoop or using an Apple Watch, Fitbit, whatever that tracks HRV, that's basically what that means is it's just a rest interval between heartbeats, right? It's just giving an indication of your sympathetic and parasympathetic nervous system.

SPEAKER_03 1:00:55

And the and the more variability you have, right, the better off it is to do a high intensity day. Exactly.

SPEAKER_00 1:01:01

Yep. And so we talk just uh because we're on the topic, if you're somebody that is using endurance training to improve cardiovascular fitness, I would highly suggest investing in some form of technology that tracks your heart rate, preferably a chest strap, because that's gonna be the most accurate and valid. You can do it with a whoop, you can do it with an Apple Watch, it's not gonna be as accurate, but chest straps are gonna be money, right? Yeah, and you said HRV, and you can measure HRV with chest straps as well. So it's a super great question.

SPEAKER_03 1:01:32

That's awesome. Yeah, we can we can dive more into it later. I just with you underlating your high intensity, low intensity, and everything like that. I was just curious if you threw in heart rate variability to determine the days that you do that.

SPEAKER_00 1:01:42

Yeah, and there is research done that they've compared people that did a structured training block and then they had people do the same training block, but they used heart rate variability to guide their intensity. HRV guided training is what it's called. And the results are kind of mixed.

SPEAKER_01 1:01:59

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 1:02:00

So I think it if it makes you feel better to see that your HRV is good, maybe it's like a mental switch of like, hey, my body's telling me I'm good today, I can send it. Yeah, right. Or even if you're kind of having an off day and you're unsure, maybe checking your HRV will give you an idea of like, wow, like I've had a rough week at work, I'm stressed, like I've the house is a mess, like whatever. You have all these things kind of adding up, and then your HRV is trash. You can kind of be forgiving of yourself of like, dude, my HRV's in the toilet, my recovery's not good. I can maybe instead of doing my high intensity today, I can do some walking or something less intensive.

SPEAKER_03 1:02:35

Yeah, I think it's a good little check-in to see how your body's doing, right? Because we can feel different than what our body's telling us. So um keeping those two things in check is is huge.

SPEAKER_00 1:02:43

Yeah, great question. If that's something any of you guys are interested in, I would highly recommend looking into Whoop. I think it's great. If you want some insight into when I should go hard and when I shouldn't, how good my sleep's doing, that's in my opinion, been the best that I've used. Nice. So cool. Sorry, we can move on now. Yeah, no, I love that. I love that question. We can get into HRV, resting heart rate, like all the cardiovascular metrics. I currently love that stuff and I'm nerding out on it. So sweet. Yeah, so I mean, what else do you want to talk about? You wanted to know about my training split. Yeah, we can talk about that. Yeah. Okay, so I'm gonna simplify this the best I can. So hang on tight, guys. Um, so I use, like I just talked about, kind of a high-low system. So I'm undulating intensity throughout the entire training week. And I'm lifting usually one to three days a week, and it's a full body training training split. My frequency is gonna depend on my current training emphasis. It's gonna be less frequent if I'm tapering or if my goals are more aerobic-based, and more if I'm building strength or strength capacity. So if I'm prepping for a high rocks or cycling event, you're probably only gonna see me in the gym twice a week, once a week on a taper. And then if I'm feeling small and I want to get a little bit more strength back, I'm gonna spend probably three days a week, probably at max in the gym lifting. That's so crazy. So crazy. So, and dude, it's so funny. Like, so Kate and I joke about this all the time. I almost this sounds so bad. I almost hate lifting days.

SPEAKER_03 1:04:15

That's so crazy.

SPEAKER_00 1:04:16

Dude, because I used to be so opposite, I'm like, damn, dude, I don't want to lift today. This is boring as hell. Like, I just want to get on the treadmill. You sound like every runner I've ever treated in my life. Ah man, it's so funny. If you would have asked me, you know, even five years ago if that was gonna be the case, I'm like, that's disgusting. Yeah, no way. Wild. But yeah, to get into this, yeah, so it's a full body training split, high low, so I'm undulating intensity throughout the week, one to three days frequency in terms of lifting, depending on the phase of training that I'm in. I talked about this earlier, but I try to just hit the foundational movement patterns. It keeps it simple for me, and that's usually a triple extension movement, which is some kind of Olympic lifting variation or plyometric, a squat, hinge, push, and pull. And I also train concurrently, meaning I integrate more than one skill and neuromuscular characteristic within the same week. So I'm always integrating aerobic work, speed and agility work, plymetric work, and in in some way, shape, or form. And I also am adding in a little bit of repeat sprintability just for my job, right? That's awesome. So I respect the residuals of all the training characteristics. And for those that don't understand residuals, I'll just loosely define it. So this is basically how long you can maintain an adaptation before it starts to atrophy. So if I train strength for a four week training block and I don't train strength again, how long is it going to take for those strength gains to go away? Same with like your running capacity. Yep, exactly. And everything has a residual. So a lot of my training in the way I sequence it is respecting the residuals of the training characteristics that I want for a tactical athlete or for a Cycling event or for a Hyrux event. Because there's multiple characteristics that are important, but you can really only train one or two of those really hard to get adaptation while doing really small doses of those other things just to maintain that characteristic. Yeah. If that makes sense. It's huge. It's huge.

SPEAKER_03 1:06:18

It makes sense to me. I hope everyone else is following along. Yeah. Residual stuff is, I mean, people talk to me about that all the time, by the way, just a quick side note.

SPEAKER_00 1:06:25

That's great that people are even know what that means.

SPEAKER_03 1:06:27

Right. Well, I mean, not even the term itself of residual training, but they say, hey, like I'm going on vacation. Like, am I going to lose all the gains that I've got from PT? And I'm like, no. I'm like, you've worked so hard. Let's say it's been like six weeks, eight weeks, whatever. I'm like, it doesn't just vanish automatically. I'm like, and especially if you're still moving and being active, lifting things, lifting your kids, like you're using your muscles if you're not freaking bed bound, right? It's like they don't just disappear. So I think this is an important topic for sure.

SPEAKER_00 1:06:54

Yeah, no kidding. And in line with that, if you're not competing for something, give yourself that week off. You're not gonna lose it. Yeah. If you're competing with something, you might want a maintenance plan, right? But yeah, just moving is gonna be plenty. And most of the residuals for the characteristics that people really want, strength and hypertrophy and aerobic fitness are pretty long. Yeah. Strengths 30 plus days, plus or minus five. I think aerobic training is about the same. Hypertrophy might be a little bit less. But yeah, if you're worried about your strength, your condition gains going down because you missed a week, I promise you you're you're fine. It's awesome. So that's important for PT people.

SPEAKER_03 1:07:30

People go into physical therapy because it happens all the time. People are so scared that they're like, oh, well, I'm going on a cruise in a week. It's like, do I need to continue to do my PT exercises and blah, blah, blah. And it's like, I tell them that's amazing. I'm like, yeah, if you're able to, but here's the thing, I'm not gonna force that on you, right? Like, if you can do some of these exercises when you get back at night or whatever, awesome. That's great. But I'm not gonna force it on you for this one week vacation. It's like go enjoy yourself and and like have fun, right? If things start to hurt, then yeah, do these exercises, do these stretches, whatever. But it's like just enjoy that time.

SPEAKER_00 1:08:05

So absolutely. And like I said, so I I respect the residuals with my my training. And like I said, I'm always integrating in some shape or form aerobic work, speed agility work, plymetric work, and repeat sprint ability. So the volume, intensity, frequency, and sequence of these depend again on my current training emphasis. So, what I did to simplify this for the listener and to kind of paint a picture, I wrote down what like my weekly training switch would be currently. Like, this is what I'm currently doing. How I break this down, because I know you can only really adapt to two skills or neuromuscular and neuromuscular characteristics at a time. So, right now, my primary training goal for this phase is muscular endurance. My secondary training goal is strength, and supplemental is power. And what but what I mean by supplemental is I'm only doing minimal effective dose to maintain that residual because I don't want to lose the power that I've developed in previous phases of my training. Right. My skills, my primary skill is aerobic training, secondary is plymetric training, and supplemental is speed and agility. Again, microdoses of speed and agility to maintain that characteristic, where I mainly focusing on aerobic adaptations. So I'm gonna break down my week for you guys. So Monday is this is a six-day week training split, by the way, for those of you who are wondering. So Monday is gonna be extensive plyometrics, the beginning of my session, and then follow that by some muscular endurance. Tuesday is a low intensity day, and it's gonna be long, slow distance zone two cardiovascular training. Right now, that consists of a lot of running because that's what I'm trying to develop, getting ready for a couple events that I want to sign up for. Wednesday is I'm maintaining my residuals. So this is speed and agility work and some strength, strength speed type work. This is high intensity but low in volume. It's only enough dose to maintain those adaptations. I don't want to pull away from the adaptations that I'm getting in my primary goal, which is gonna be muscular endurance. Thursday again is an LSD zone two conditioning day. Friday is gonna be the same as Monday, but it's extensive plymetrics and muscular endurance. And then Saturday is an optional zone two or long walk with Haley, I put just so you guys know. Like my weekends are sacred. There are other things that I value in my life that's not just exercise. I can give up an optional zone two Saturday instead of getting on the bike or the treadmill. Like, I'm just gonna go walk with Haley, dude. Go play some pickleball or something. And I think people need to get themselves some slack. Like, go have some fun with your exercise.

SPEAKER_03 1:11:01

Just outside part of your split. I love that. I think that's like one of the days it's like, yeah, it's zone two, but I'm actually just gonna do this instead.

SPEAKER_00 1:11:08

So 100%. I can knock out two birds with one stone. And being active with your significant other is is top notch. So it's great. It's great. Yeah, do you have any questions about that?

SPEAKER_03 1:11:18

I don't think so. I mean, dude, I mean, your training is is crazy when you actually come into the gym here. It's crazy to watch you and some of the stuff that you focus on and that you work on. Um, because an initially when I was watching you, right, before we've talked about your training split and like what your goals are, um, I'm like, man, he's benching this week and then next week he's doing this like rotational overhead press thing. I'm like, what is going on here? Like, like it felt random, right? It felt random, but it's a no, no, no. You're not in here doing random like machines and stuff, but it's just funny. Um, so yeah, I think it's cool. I think it's cool. I think you're gonna laugh at my split because it's very uh, you know, cut and dry. No, dude, said it, keep it simple, stupid. Okay, cool. Um, I'll make it quick. We're we're over an hour, but I'll make it super fast. No, dude, take your time. Monday, okay. This is a five-day split, right? And I'll tell you right now, with the volume that I do for my squat and my bench, please work up to it. I'm not saying like, oh, you can't do my split. You can. Please just monitor your um volume and your reps more than anything. So I'll kind of break this down. So Monday is comp squat. So that is like for me a low bar squat, and I'm working on rep ranges that are pretty low. Uh, Tuesday is comp bench. So that is my normal width on the bar, um, like where I'm actually grabbing the knurling and everything. Um, pretty high loads, um, working on my arch and my leg drive and all of that. After that, it's a rest day because those two kind of tank me pretty hard, right? Because it's heavy load. After that, I move into deadlift and I can do either my true, like actual competition deadlift or variation, and it can change week to week. But then that's paired with my second bench session. So that's my secondary bench, and I usually do like a close grip variation. Um, I've been really liking close grip with added bands on there for some tricep like finisher work. Um, after that, so let's see, that's Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday, Friday is squat two. So that is basically my secondary squat day where I can do SSB, I can do high bar squat, I can do any sort of variation that is still a squat pattern and I can load it pretty well, but it's not my competition squat. And then let's see, one, two, three, after that, bench. So that's my tertiary bench day. Um, which once again, please pay attention to your volume and your frequency because it can lead to over train overtraining injuries and load management issues. But I bench three times a week because I'm trying to compete again eventually, right? So my third bench day is some sort of variation, but it's more tempo based, or it's a paused base. So I can do like a two-second pause on my chest, or I can do like a three, one, zero kind of tempo. And then after that, it's a rest day and it repeats. So pretty cut and dry. Here's the thing there are some accessory lifts that tag into there. So um, but other than that, it's like my combo lifts are my one love right now. So it's like I I like to stick with what I like and I like lifting heavy. So yeah. Any questions for me? Mine's pretty easy, right?

SPEAKER_00 1:14:38

No, I have several, and I don't think it's easy at all. I did want to ask powerlifting is a skill. So I know you're saying it's simple, but is it actually? Because you're you're learning how to do these lifts almost like it's a skill, not necessarily as it's for fitness. It's true. So talk about that a little bit because you you say it's simple, but it's really not. Like honestly, it's not because you're feeling every single lift, right? You're practicing getting under heavy loads, and there's probably a mental component to that too. I've put heavy load on my back before. Sometimes, like, goddamn, dude, no way am I gonna squat this thing. No way. So funny, right? Yeah. So yeah, talk about that a little bit.

SPEAKER_03 1:15:18

Oh, dude, now you're making me feel I didn't ask anything about your training session, but um you don't want to know. We're gonna talk for hours, dude. No, um, okay, yes, that's actually why I fell in love with powerlifting. So don't get me wrong, I loved the strength benefits, and I thought it was so fun to train that way because I'm like, dude, I get to squat multiple times a week because I love squatting. Um, but the biggest thing was that it is a skill, right? Like honing in on how your deadlift is moving was it's my favorite thing, right? And honestly, it helped tie into PT and like getting people not only rehab, but like strength and conditioning too, because then people can ask me, like, oh, like how does my deadlift look? And I've spent hours and hours and hours of research on myself and others dialing that in because powerlifting truly is like a skill sport. Yes, you need to be strong, you need to be explosive, like you're moving as much weight as possible, but it's like you need to do it effectively, which I really, really love. So you're right, it is a skilled component for sure. But in terms of my training split, like it's basic, right? But the skill movements themselves, that's where it can get technical.

SPEAKER_00 1:16:25

So it's a great question. I love that. And there's the biomechanics of everything, and maybe tweaking your technique just a little bit just to get it one to two percent increase in your lifts.

SPEAKER_03 1:16:36

That's everything, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:16:38

Right? Yep. And another thing I was curious on, and we dove a little bit into this in grad school, right? But it's the tempo of your lifts on the eccentric portion. Is there a sweet spot for you? And you try to match that same tempo regardless of the intensity that you're lifting, or do you try to accelerate that? Like, let's say you're a six RPE, like yeah, you're focusing on max like maximal muscle, whatever contraction on the concentric portion of the lift, right? Right. But is the eccentric gonna look the same for you? That's so interesting. Just to practice that tempo because there's gotta be a sweet spot, right?

SPEAKER_03 1:17:19

It's funny, yes, there is a sweet spot, right? It's what's comfortable, truly. Like that's what it comes down to. It's like what speed are you comfortable lowering down into a squat and you're controlled and your brace is good and your knees aren't collapsing, and all of these other factors. Um, for me, it's not anything that I've really had to worry about until I failed one of my third squats at a state competition, and my coach was like, we have to do some tempo squats, right? Because like you lost your brace and then your hips shot up, right? So once again, this skill development is what I really, really loved. And I've been coached by multiple powerlifting coaches and I've coached people, like it's it's great. Um, but in terms of just really dialing in that eccentric, whether it's like easy RPE or heavy RPE, no matter what, the concentric is as quick and as explosive as you can be.

SPEAKER_00 1:18:05

You want it to be every single time, maximal intent, every single concentric lift. Exactly. Absolutely.

SPEAKER_03 1:18:11

But eccentric wise, for bench press, I like messing with it for sure. Like on my tertiary bench day, I love messing with slower eccentrics and like really working on that control. Squat-wise, I have to do what's comfortable, truly. Like I'm dealing with hip issues. I'm pretty sure I have some sort of like laboral issue. So it's like so I do what's comfortable for me. I don't sit down in the squat for very long.

SPEAKER_00 1:18:32

Do you ever do any like accentuated eccentric training to where your eccentric is heavier and then you unload it up before the concentric? Because for the listeners, so you can produce more force eccentrically than you can concentrically, which means you could probably do the eccentric portion of the lift, probably at 130% of what your concentric contraction is, which is so cool. So a lot of people will use bands or chains, or they will do they'll have more weight on the bar and they'll have somebody take it off at the bottom. Yeah. I love the pin droppers. The pin drops are super sick. So cool. They're just really loud. Yeah, I was just really curious on not in my training.

SPEAKER_03 1:19:12

Yeah, not in my training. I think it's fantastic for the people that have implemented that into their training split and there aren't they they aren't overreaching, right? Because that's something you have to keep in mind. It's like, okay, if you are overloading your eccentrics that heavy, like you said, 113%, which I didn't know that was the value. That's actually crazy. Yeah. Um, if you're doing that, you need to manage your fatigue and like make sure that you aren't over training because you're still loading the muscles, you're still loading the tendons, right? So it's like I probably wouldn't be able to do that with my bench press at least because I'm benching three times a week. Yeah. So then if I start overloading my eccentrics like that, I think it would get it could get messy. So I haven't messed with it, but dude, I love watching people that do that stuff. I think it's so cool.

SPEAKER_00 1:19:54

And some of it is sparkles and glitter, right?

SPEAKER_01 1:19:57

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:19:58

And I get it, and I I understand the concept of it. I was just purely curious because I know it's an advanced training technique that really you're irking out a couple percent in your PRs, right? Yeah, but how much better can you get by focusing on on other variables, managing fatigue, improving, increasing volume, increasing intensity, things like that, improving your biomechanics. Yeah, there's so many factors that go into it.

SPEAKER_03 1:20:22

Truly, I would say that a variation of let's take squat, for example, right? Because everyone has probably seen those pins that they set on the side, and that when you go down into a squat, the pins pop off, and then you can stand up and be more explosive. Anyway, for me, I think it is more beneficial for the people I have trained that I've coached, my own powerlifting career, and the way I've been coached by others who are much better than me, that having a variation of a squat instead of that, it would actually be better, right? And you can count that as a variation, I get that. But like to me, I find more benefit of doing like a high bar squat instead of my low bar squat and mixing that in instead of like having to worry about this loaded eccentric. So I don't know. I would love to dive more into the research on that for sure.

SPEAKER_00 1:21:09

Yeah, no, that's just one of your your primary program design variables, which is variation. Yeah. So do you undulate your volume and intensity throughout the training week? I know we talked last time about you were training a straight across the board seven RPE. Is that what you're still doing? Every day is a seven RPE. Pretty much, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 1:21:26

Um, except for accessories. Accessories can be up to a nine, which is great. Um so um a lot of people are hitting these compound lifts and then they do accessories and they are just adding junk volume and junk volume, right? For me, it's like when I do an accessory, I need it to be close to failure, right? To actually be worth it and yeah, zero to three reps in reserve, right? Yes. Um, but in terms of like my volume and everything like that, that hasn't changed for two weeks. Um, that is still RPE7. I'm sticking in a four rep range within a 16 rep follow-up, and I have like four minutes to do it. So um it's it's really interesting, right? I think actually with when I had that time frame, it was like RPE six, so it was a lot lighter. But anyway, yeah, that's that's my training split. So yes, it will continue to like raise up in volume and then drop down in intensity and things like that, but right now it's like the hypertrophy block.

SPEAKER_00 1:22:19

So yeah, so you we're basically talking about linear periodization here rather than undulated. Yeah. So we'll get into periodization a little bit later. That's a topic that's it can be confusing, right? Yep. So when you do sorry, I have so many questions. You're so good. How many accessory lifts are you doing? Are there some days you do it, some days you don't, based off of how you're feeling? You don't want to add the junk volume. Maybe accessory lifts are better skipped today to improve my performance on a high intensity day tomorrow. Um, what are your favorite accessory lifts? And I want to know a little bit about your rep scheme. So with your linear periodization model, like let's say your RPE 7 with you said of rep ranges of about four, are you matching that same repetition range for your accessory lifts? Are you doing more like hypertrophy type work, cross-sectional area type work?

SPEAKER_03 1:23:12

That.

SPEAKER_00 1:23:13

Okay.

SPEAKER_03 1:23:14

Yep, as I'm nodding along. Yes, trying to not cut you off. No, you're getting higher rep ranges for my accessory lifts and higher intensity. Um, the reason for this is because and and this comes from uh barbell medicine, right? This is where my training split is currently coming from, which is great. I love their programs. Um so the main compound lifts are right now pretty easy, pretty light, um, rep range is still pretty low. Like it's it's not taxing, right? When I move on to the accessories, I'm doing two accessories, right? So for my bench day, um, I'm also pairing dumbbell overhead press seated and then chest fly, and that's it. And I do three sets and it is anywhere from 12 to 20 reps, and it's anywhere in there with a high RPE. So it is like hypertrophy based. But what I love is that it almost feels like adding on a little bit for lagging things, if that makes sense. So, like, because my overhead press is always bad. Like that just sucks for me, right? But I truly believe adding in these dumbbell overhead press or the barbell overhead press on my secondary bench day, um, that adds in it it it helps my pressing motion in general, right? I think that's the biggest thing is that it helps bring up the lagging areas for me still, which is cool because you can kind of pick some of your accessories, right? You're not locked in like when you're on this program where it's just like, oh, you have to do these accessories. You can do what you want. So that's kind of where my skill set comes in. And it's like, okay, yeah, I would benefit from probably doing some flies and getting some increased range of motion. Since on like a competition bench press, you try to cut down on range of motion, right? And then overhead press, building shoulders and pressing capacity.

SPEAKER_00 1:25:08

So dude, that's sick. I do want to bring this up. I thought it was awesome. So you are following somebody else's training program. Oh, yeah. So for the for the listener, like I think it's awesome that you know as much as you do and you're as experienced as you are, but you're still trying to learn from other people. So hats off for you to that. A lot of people, it's that I'm better than you, I can do this better myself. But you're taking this as an opportunity to get better mentally too. Like you're learning as you're doing these programs, you're finding different ways that other people are doing it that you didn't even think of. And I can relate to that. Switching to doing somebody else's program. One, I don't have to think about it. Um, two, I overcomplicate every single thing that I do in the gym. And three, you learn something along the way, which I think is awesome.

SPEAKER_03 1:25:58

Yeah, never shy away from that. Um, I always recommend seeing a trainer, right? Because they should be well educated and they can individualize it better. But for me, the program from Barbell Medicine, um, it I've ran it before. It's fantastic. I loved it. Like I said, I've had powerlifting coaches before, and that got me to a whole other level where I was competing at nationals and things like that, right? Um, but for what I'm doing now in terms of running a business and seeing patients and training people, um, it's easiest for me to have somebody, somebody else or some other program that tracks that and I can just type in my numbers, make it easy.

SPEAKER_00 1:26:34

Well, and that's tough because you don't want to write yourself a half-assed program. Right. People don't understand to really individualize a training program. There's a lot of variables to manipulate, and it does take a long, long time. It's not a simple process. Yeah. It could take some time. There's a lot of variables, and the better you are at something, the more specific you have to be, and the details really matter. Yes. So for you to take the time out of your busy schedule to attend to that, it's hard. So sometimes, like, hey, I'm gonna delegate this to somebody else that's really good at this as well, and I'm gonna learn something along the way. Yeah, I think it's awesome.

SPEAKER_03 1:27:09

And and and same from you, right? Like you talked about like these training principles that you've started to implement.

SPEAKER_00 1:27:14

You got those from somebody else too. I've learned so much from other coaches, so much. It is should never be a I know all mentality. Gosh, man, I I feel like everything I am good at is because I learned it from somebody else. Like these aren't my own thoughts and ideas. This is just bits and pieces from other people that I've put together and kind of accumulated them and come up with my own training philosophy, right? It's awesome.

SPEAKER_03 1:27:37

That's great.

SPEAKER_00 1:27:38

So one last question. Let's do it. Just because I'm curious. Have you looked at the rep range for hypertrophy in the new NSCA book? Because I heard uh from one of my professors he was talking about hypertrophy rep range went up and he thought that it was in that new textbook. He wasn't sure, but usually like optimal six to twelve, right? He said it was like six to twelve and then twelve up to like. 20 or 30. Yes, let's go. Let's go. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 1:28:03

Okay. So I don't know about the 30 range, but up to 20, I'm a big fan. Yeah. I'm a big fan, actually. So I love that. I have the new book. So we could check that honestly really, really quick. Um, yeah, we're talking about the fifth edition essentials to strength and conditioning book. So uh both of us are CSCS, right? We studied that book, we took the exam, everything like that. Um, but yeah, I love the higher rep range. So for my accessory work, right? Because it's not like I'm trying to be a bodybuilder. I'm not trying to be so freaking jacked or whatever. Like it's a cool perk, but for me, like I said, it's almost like a prehab thing. Like, make sure my shoulders are good, my range of motion is good, things like that. So I love the higher rep range stuff. Because I think a lot of people are shocked when they come to PT with me and I'm like, cool, you're doing a set of 30 here, right? But it's super light and it's like easy or whatever. But yeah, these rep ranges that people have always been so stuck in that, like, oh, we're doing three sets of 10 or three sets of 12, right? It's like, no, you can go further than that. Like, especially if it's light and you're managing fatigue, that's awesome.

SPEAKER_00 1:29:04

So, yeah, huge difference between 30 to 50 reps and 20. Yeah, especially if we're pushing zero to three reps in reserve, there's gonna be some hypertrophy benefit from pushing your muscles to that extent. Yeah, and we won't get to the physiology of that, but yeah, I thought it was awesome because everybody gets stuck on that six to twelve, and it's like, nope, can't do 13 reps because my body's gonna say, Nope, that's muscular endurance, so better stop there, bro. Hard cut. Your body's yeah, your body doesn't work like that. That's so funny. It's so funny. Cool. Great questions.

SPEAKER_03 1:29:35

You had so many, and I didn't I didn't even ask you anything, but we can talk more about your training split for sure. Um, I I love that you talked about the interference effect, residuals, everything like that, too.

SPEAKER_00 1:29:45

So yeah, I mean, that's all I got tonight. So if the if you guys have any questions for us, some of this can be kind of confusing, and we do get lost in our thoughts sometimes. Yeah. I listen back to the podcast. I'm like, dude, you didn't even finish your thought before you went on to the next thing. Like, I'm already thinking before I'm not, yeah. Yeah, there's a lot of info. Yeah, a lot of info. But if you have questions, you can ask us. Like, Tyler knows a lot of information. I know information. So if you uh being modest. No, man. If if you have any questions, please hit us up. We'd love to help. I'd love to help you guys out if you have need advice on program design or incorporating other modalities into your training split, like how to train aerobically, how to do pl like if you should be doing plymetrics. My answer is yes. But if you have questions, ask, right? My answer is yes. Yeah, I'm 30. I turned 31 on Sunday and I'm still doing speed and agility work, man. Heck yeah. And I love it, and I think everybody should be doing it. So that's just an example.

SPEAKER_03 1:30:39

But I love it, dude. Cool. Well, that was fun. Um, we'll dive more into more specific things as we keep going. But thanks for listening, and we will, I guess, chat next Monday. Yeah. Okay, sounds good. Heck yeah. See ya.