Shop Talk
Podcast aimed to provide reliable and digestible information about fitness, health, resistance training, rehab, and sport.
Shop Talk
SHOP TALK - Episode 7: Q and A
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On today's episode of Shop Talk, Tyler and Trevin ask each other 5 questions about life, purpose, strength and conditioning, and rehab.
Welcome to Shop Talk. I'm Tyler. I'm Trevin. We are here to break down the latest trends in rehab, strength and conditioning, and fitness all through the lens of evidence-based practice. Our goal is simple cut through the noise in the fitness industry and talk about what actually works, why it works, and how you can apply it. On today's episode, we will be doing a short form QA with me and Trevin. So, um, how do you want to start?
SPEAKER_02Well, so we each brought four to five questions for each other. Um, if you'd like, I can start.
SPEAKER_03Yeah.
SPEAKER_02Before we get going, though, I do want to give a quick shout out to Cade Mortensen. For those that don't know, we have a third partner behind the scenes making sure we sound a lot better than we actually do. Yeah.
SPEAKER_00So shout out to Cade. Cade's awesome. He's super nice. I've only met him once, but he is actually helping edit and put music to all of this stuff, and he's been doing an awesome job.
SPEAKER_02So yeah, I thought about Cade this week. So I'm like, ah, we'll give him a quick shout-out. I love it. So, okay, yeah. So let's start off uh with my first question for you. Cool. So, how would you define your purpose in regard to the physio shop? What are a few things you want people to know about what you're trying to accomplish?
SPEAKER_00Oh man, we're starting deep here. Okay. Okay. Let's start with the uh the purpose. Um, what I think my purpose is um being a clinic owner, um, starting a new practice. I believe my purpose is to help as many people as possible. Um, however that looks for each individual, I believe that everyone could use some form of fitness or rehab or just general strengthening in some capacity. And I would love to be that resource for people, right? Same way that on this podcast, we like being a resource for good information about training. Sometimes we get a little too deep and that's great, right? Because this is a, you know, educated type podcast. In terms of like what I do here in the clinic, it's like I want it to be a safe space where people can trust what I do and my training methods and see progress and basically just give them their purpose, if that makes sense, right? Because not everyone can spend hours and hours and hours in the gym every single week and learn all of these ins and outs of fitness or how to recover and things like that. So it's like, I hope to be that trustworthy person that people can really rely on. I think that's the biggest thing. In terms of me owning the clinic and and operating it, it's like I think that just allows me to be more authentic to myself and the way I treat patients. That's the biggest part. Um, I didn't want to be stuck in a box at some corporate physical therapy place where they told me how to treat my patients when it's like I'm the one with the education, though, right? And I have all these other credentials behind my name. It's like I I hope people would trust that and see the progress that they get like as a as a patient and trust that, yeah, this guy knows what he's doing. So I don't need to be like guided necessarily by these other, I don't know, corporate businesses is what I'll say. That's the easiest way to put it. So my purpose is just to help as many people as possible, plain and simple.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, no, I like that since I've known you, everything we've talked about has been so purpose driven. And nothing about you owning a PT clinic has ever been about a money grab or some kind of I don't know, badge of honor of like, hey, I own my own gym, yada yada yada. You know? Um everything you talk about is so purpose driven and it's so based off of your clients and your um clients, whether it's personal training, strength and conditioning, or rehab stuff. I've just always respected that from you. So I was just very curious on what your purpose was in regards to the shop, even though I feel like I already knew what it was. I wanted the listener to get a better idea of what that was.
SPEAKER_00I I really appreciate that. It it means a lot. Um, for those of you who don't know, so Trevin's a little bit older than me. Um, but I've always respected his work ethic and and that he used to own a gym and now he's getting his master's. Like I've always kind of looked up to you in a way, right? You were super good at football, you went and played college ball. Like I've always looked up to you. So you saying that, that it is just more purpose for me than anything, because it's not, it's not about the money, dude. If I wanted crazy money, I would have been a surgeon, right? Like, I'm not saying like, oh, the school's so easy, I would just go be a surgeon, but like there's better fields if I was concerned about the money, right? It's because I truly love what I do and I want to help people. So I appreciate you noticing that.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, and I think that is why the podcast is working as well as it is and how we've meshed so well together in such a short amount of time. I don't think the listener understands that like we've really only really known each other for what a couple of months, and we've put this podcast together and have learned to have these really great conversations around fitness, exercise, rehabilitation in such a quick amount of time. So I think that's great. I think it's kudos to both of us. Um, we're both very purpose-driven people. So I that is one thing I always want to drive home with the listener, is it's it's always about the listener or the client or the patient. Yeah.
SPEAKER_00So yeah, I mean, I'll add on to that. Like with the podcast, even us when we started this, we're not we're not trying to monetize this. We're not trying to get any sort of kickbacks or anything. It's truly because it's like, wow, you're really good at what you do. I'm pretty good at what I do. Like, and I'm not trying to toot my own horn, but it's just like, why not get our information together and put it out there for people who actually care and want that kind of info and make it not so money, you know what I mean? Like everyone, I feel like um, at least in my realm right now, with growing a business, and I get it business-wise, you have to survive, you have to keep the lights on. But there's just a lot of people that are so focused on the money. And it's really hard. It's really hard because it's like I'm torn both directions, where it's like, no, my patients come first, their care comes first. I don't care what it is, versus business, we gotta stay open so I can actually help those people.
SPEAKER_02So it's a it's a toss-up, but yeah, no, not that there's anything wrong with making a good living off of something you're passionate about, which I think comes secondary, right, to just being purpose-driven. And I think the wealth typically follows if you're yeah, if you're passionate about it for sure. So cool. Yeah, no, I think it's funny because we we can sit before we started the podcast, we would just sit and talk for like hours just on random fitness topics, and we're like, hmm, we should do a podcast.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_00I mean, because you mentioned it one day. That's how this whole thing started. You mentioned it that you wanted to do something like this, and there would be times where you came in to lift and you know, it was really slow. We're still growing, right? And I would just be at the front desk hanging out or whatever. And in your in the middle of like your sets or like your your sprint intervals, you would be like carrying on a conversation with me, and then you'd get back on the treadmill and sprint again. I'm like, dude, we just need to have like a dedicated time to be able to talk about this stuff. So no, I love it. Yeah. Uh, do you want me to ask one or do you want to run through it?
SPEAKER_01No, yeah.
SPEAKER_02So the second part to that question, and you may have covered it, but what are a few things that you want people to know about what you're trying to accomplish? So for people that are curious about the physioshop that haven't been in or haven't heard much about it, what is something you want them to know?
SPEAKER_00Change the stigma behind physical therapy. Change this and stigma sounds like a really negative word, but I guess just the the subjective connotation that is attached to physical therapy. Most people see that or hear that and they're like, oh, old people, right? And don't get me wrong, like old people absolutely benefit from physical therapy 100%, especially after like a joint replacement or whatever. But physical therapy can be so helpful in terms of like prehab if you're an athlete, like a hardcore athlete, or even just like a weekend warrior, and you're like, man, like my hamstring's bugging me because I I keep running every week or whatever. So, anyway, changing the stigma behind that and also showing people what physical therapy should be and what it can be. Because I got my training in Arizona, which is very different than here in Idaho. So I wanted to bring what I learned in Flagstaff from the physio shop location there and bring it back to Idaho because the way they treat is just very, very different. I can't tell you the amount of times. And please listen to this. If you're a if you're a lifter, if you're a runner, if you're whatever, a CrossFitter, doesn't matter. How many times do you go to physical therapy and maybe they get things feeling good and you're like, man, that actually was very helpful. But then you go back to CrossFit, you go back to lifting, and you're like, ooh, that still kind of hurts. That still kind of that's not how it should feel, right? It's not a hundred percent. Physical therapists need to start putting barbells in people's hands, right? So, like if you're treating a CrossFitter, right, they're using dumbbells and kettlebells and barbells for their workouts. Why, why with my treatment out here would I be doing bands and like some cable exercises or whatever when they're gonna be returning to their sport, right? I put quotes around that, but like their sport, um, that's focused around like heavy lifting, overhead snatch, barbell, like jumpovers and things like that. So, like that's how your treatment should be geared, I think. And there's a lot of clinics that are just like, oh, let's calm down this tissue and then we'll slowly build it back up with a little bit of strengthening. And it's like, for me, it's like I want to take that next step of like, yep, let's calm it down, build it up, and then let's make it so you can actually use it in your sport or your hobby, right? There's there's levels to it, if that makes sense. I'm just trying to show people the next level of physical therapy.
SPEAKER_02So yeah, that's great. And one thing that I appreciate about what you're doing here, even you talked about old people, and there's nothing wrong with that, right? But I'm assuming, and I don't know because I'm not old yet, but one day I will be. I can't imagine that I would want to be treated like I am this fragile thing when I show it to PTE. So for some reason, I think we get in our head that old people want to kind of be coddled when they walk into a physical therapy clinic, which I bet you most of them don't. And it's probably really disrespectful when we're treating them like they're these like I don't know, what's uh inappropriate?
SPEAKER_00I don't know, just beat up, just like poor little things. Yeah, like whatever.
SPEAKER_02I gotta like kind of treat you like you're old, whereas like they probably enjoy coming into the physio shop and there's some good music playing, and then it's a good community, and they're like, Oh, I'm here to get better, and I can actually improve my performance. And they kind of feel part of a community rather than just like, oh, I'm just here because my doctor told me to be. Yeah, you know, so way different environment, uh, way different environment, way more uplifting. And I'm speaking from like future like 60, 70 year old Trevin who's probably gonna need PT at some point. Probably like I would love to be in a gym where it's you know, good vibes, good energy, good music, and I'm not being treated like I'm just some like worthless person that can't do anything. Right.
SPEAKER_00Like, you know, I get it, I get it, man. Uh there's a lot of clinics um all across the country that are geared towards that, where it's like a nice, relaxing kind of clinic. Hey, let's get you on the table, let's do some soft tissue and make you feel nice and blah, blah, blah. And they'll do some exercise, don't get me wrong, but it's like, oh, let's do some bridges, let's do some clamshells, right? There's nothing wrong with that. And it can work for patients that are maybe not wanting the whole experience. But like to me, when somebody comes in, I'm like, man, you could be so much more than what you are. So just for an example, I saw um he's 82 and evaled him just last week, actually. And he's done PT for his hip in the past. And he was telling me, he's like, Yep, they made me walk, they made me do some sit-to-stands and um also just like stretches and stuff. I'm like, cool, that's awesome. But now I'm seeing him for his knee. And the stuff that I was having him do, he's never seen it before. He's never done it, right? I was loading him up and of course, safe, right? I'm making sure that everything medical-wise is covered, right? That's that's my education side of it. But then when I'm like, okay, we're good to go, let's do this. We're loading up weights. We are doing some squats, we are doing some deadlift hinge variations, like just it's just more than what you see in a traditional PT clinic, honestly. I I treat everyone as an athlete, truly. Um, and that scares some people, but I don't think it should because of course I have that medical side of PT that will make sure that they're safe and and everything's gonna be taken care of. But yeah, we push people here for sure. Yeah, and I'm sure people that are showing up definitely appreciate that. Yeah, yeah. So it's been fun so far.
SPEAKER_05Heck yeah.
SPEAKER_00Well, I appreciate that. That was a two-part question. So I hope I answered both parts. Oh, no, that sounded great to me. Yeah. Um, so do you want me to go on my number one now? Yeah, do you want me to? Yeah, go ahead. Let's go back and forth. Okay, that's so funny. Yours was so deep, and mine is like based on like strength and conditioning stuff.
SPEAKER_02That's all right, man. We didn't we didn't talk about these prior, if anybody was wondering, we just kind of were with it.
SPEAKER_00Okay. Um, so my first one, does the mode of conditioning matter? We've talked a little bit about this, but whether somebody's pushing a sled or they're on a rower or a bike, and let's say they're getting the same heart rate zone, similar volume, right, for time or whatever, does it matter? Does the mode actually matter? And why would it be important?
SPEAKER_02That's a great question. And it really depends, right? So if we're talking about GPP work, general physical preparedness, and let's say general population that are just trying to be healthy, active individuals, I think it's gonna have to do a lot more with preference.
SPEAKER_01Okay.
SPEAKER_02So when it comes to conditioning and the mode of what you're doing, conditioning, I think it's just preference. If you enjoy running, that's great. If you enjoy cycling, that's great. If you enjoy doing some kind of circuit-based training where you're doing a little bit of sled pushes, some sled pulls, rowing, skiing, whatever. I don't think it matters. I think it all has to do with preference. When we start getting into more performance side of things, depending on if you're a recreational athlete or a competitive athlete, then it starts to matter a little bit more. In the off-season, you could probably spend a little bit more time with GPP work where the mode doesn't necessarily matter, but as you get closer to in-season work, you have to change the mode of conditioning to match what you're doing for sport.
SPEAKER_01More specific.
SPEAKER_02Yeah. So, like if you were an endurance runner or a cyclist and you're on the off season, you can cross-train. So if you're a runner, maybe on the off-season, you can swim a little bit or you can cycle a little bit just to get a little bit of different training, just because you're probably bored of doing the same thing, right? And to give yourself a little bit of a break. But as you get closer to in season, probably start running a little bit more and stop swimming and cycling.
SPEAKER_04Okay.
SPEAKER_02So, and I also think for, and you can probably answer this, but for like rehab situations for an endurance athlete, let's say you're talking about a runner that's dealing with an injury that's keeping them from running. Well, we know that cardiovascular gains the atrophy pretty quick. So, in order to keep that VO2 max up higher to like a competitive level, we still need to train aerobically. So getting them in the pool or on a bike where they can still train, it might not be specific to the sport, it might not be running per se, but they're still training cardiovascular fitness so that way they can at least maintain VO2 max and cardiovascular benefit. So yeah, that's awesome.
SPEAKER_00That's awesome. I love it. Um, yeah, just hearing you talk about that stuff, you are just much more well-versed. Like we have the same CSCS certification, right? But like mine has over time, right? Because that's just what I practice the most, has turned to physical therapy. So it's really cool because it's like that is just such your realm, and you can talk about it and give much more defined answers than me. Cause then in my mind, I'm like, oh, well, it kind of depends on like what condition we're treating and like dah-da-da, like all this other stuff. For you, it's just like it's straight to the point. So I love it.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, no, and I and it's fun too to just play around with different modes of conditioning. Like some of my favorite days that I've had in the gym were just I showed up that day and I just wrote down on the whiteboard what sounded fun. And I kept it appropriate within, you know, the context of what I was doing that day. But those are usually the funnest training sessions. Yeah. A little bit of this, a little bit of that. Yeah, it might be a little bit of kitchen sink, but when we're talking GPP and cardiovascular training, I don't think it matters all that much. Yeah.
SPEAKER_00So um, I like that you talked about as getting closer to a competition date or a race or whatever, becoming more specific with that. That was a big thing in powerlifting too. Yep. Where yeah, when I'm not competing for let's say six months or whatever, then it's like, yeah, we're building, we're building a little bit more hypertrophy, we're doing some more accessory work, da-da-da. But then as it got closer and closer to competition date, it's like it was just squat, bench, deadlift, right? And then we tried to be as specific as possible and use the same barbells that they would use in competition, the same benches and the same like kilo plates and everything, too, just to make it as specific as possible. So you were prepared for that demand. So yeah.
SPEAKER_02And so the listener understands where we're coming from in terms of like periodization and coming up with a basically a program design for your athlete. Typically, you're gonna start from more general and then work towards more specific as the training year moves on. So for field sport athletes or power lifters, the further out you are from competition, the less specific it needs to be. The closer you get, the more specific it needs to be. Yeah. So you can definitely have freedom with your conditioning or even your strength work when you're months and months out from competition. Like you're still gonna get benefit from that and you're not gonna burn out either. Right.
SPEAKER_00So yeah, it keeps you more engaged when you can do a few different things in the offseason for sure.
SPEAKER_02Yeah. And you mentioned the CSCS and how we both have it. It is kind of funny how we we have similar certifications and similar backgrounds, but we bias different things. And that just goes to show how much good information is out there in the world of strength and conditioning where a lot of the principles, they are what they are, but you can bias one way or another and choose to learn more about cardiovascular training or more about powerlifting or more about Olympic lifting or bodybuilding. There's so many different avenues that you can take with it. There's just so much good information out there. It's just kind of cool to see everybody's background and how they take a good certification, like a CSCS, and then they run with it in one direction or the other. Yeah. It's cool. Or for instance, like right now in grad school, everything that I'm doing is tactical athlete based. It's first responders, firefighters, SWAT officers, military, things like that. Everything I do is based off the tactical athlete, where I have classmates that are football, then wrestling, and volleyball, and cross-country skiing. And you learn so much every single day reading what you know their papers are about because you're like, oh man, like I didn't know that about a biathlete, or oh, I didn't know that about, you know, I didn't know that about cross-country skiing. And so you might know a lot about a specific sport or training modality and know almost absolutely nothing in another because of how different things are. Yeah.
SPEAKER_00So yep, yep, that's a good way to put it, man. Um, it's funny. I did like a solo recording um for the social media out here for the physio shop, and I talked about I talked about um like skill coaches, once they start training one thing, they all of a sudden think that they can train everything in like all these different skills and stuff, which is very bizarre to me because like you just said, it's like everything is so vastly different. Even if you have really good background and certifications and good knowledge, you do the research and everything. It's like with how much education you have, you still don't know so much about cross-country skiing or like maybe even volleyball, right? Like there are so many nuances between each sport where it's like, it's like, yeah, there should be a line of like where you say, Oh, I'm a skill coach for let's just say swimming, right? Like, and we just work on skills for swimming, right? And also strength and endurance and all of that, but I'm not a skill coach for all these other things at the same time because you can't know all of those things. You really can't. All of those slight little differences from sport to sport, even though they might seem similar, they're really not.
SPEAKER_02So yeah, it's it's really cool as you start to get into the profession of strength and conditioning, you almost have to pick a sport or a modality of exercise and become an expert in it and go really deep in that craft. And sometimes that means kind of missing information on other sports, and not that that's bad, but where I might be an expert in like tactical strength and conditioning, I could probably use the help from somebody that's a field sport athlete to learn more information from them. It doesn't mean I'm not smart or don't know what I'm doing, it's just they're they are so different, and it just kind of puts a lot more respect on different styles of coaching or different strength and condition coaches for different athletes. It's just so different. You you just can't be great at everything. Yep. Yeah, if that makes sense. For sure. Like I wouldn't want to touch a power lifter, I really wouldn't. Yeah, cool. I have a CSCS, I would have my master's degree here in a little bit. That does not mean I necessarily feel confident enough to start training a competitive powerlifter.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, yeah. I get that. I get that. I'm dying.
SPEAKER_00He's getting he's getting emotional over here. No, I'm just kidding. Um, so my next question goes kind of builds off of this.
SPEAKER_01You can keep coughing, you're good. Summon that energy drink, dude. It's funny.
SPEAKER_00Um all right, send it. What is the best way to assess someone's current conditioning level and build goals from there?
SPEAKER_02Ooh, good way to assess conditioning.
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_02So there is a good amount of testing procedures in terms of cardiovascular fitness. Typically, the gold standard ride is testing VO2 Max through a metabolic cart, which is really hard to do, pretty expensive, and you have to have the right technology to go do it. You could probably find a hospital if you wanted to, or a cardiovascular, you know, unit at a hospital that'll run that for you. Um, but in terms of testing for that, you could do something as simple as like a mile and a half run, or I like the 12-minute run. So how far can I run in 12 minutes is a really basic one, or you can get rough estimates of your VO2 max through like a Bruce protocol or um something similar to that. Okay. So there's different ways that you can test it. Um, a simple way to test it if you don't have a coach or don't know how to test it yourself, could just use an RPE scale just on yourself. So, like hmm, this week I did let's say I went on a bike ride, got on my bike, and I cycled you know 20 miles. My RPE was like a nine. But then two, three weeks from then I'm pedaling at the same RPM, same distance, but I did it a little bit faster, and my RPE was like a six. Like I would say that's improvement, right? So, as complex as like testing and evaluating may seem for like cardiovascular fitness, it's pretty easy to see just in performance alone on your own, just gauging RPE um throughout your training process. So if that makes sense.
SPEAKER_04Yeah.
SPEAKER_00And we've talked about RPE before, but that's just rate of perceived exertion, right? Usually zero to uh one to ten scale. Um, it's funny. The original RPE scale was like, what was it? It's not Berg, it's Borg's. Um, and it was based on heart rate, which is really funny. But that's that's kind of where that scale came from, and now it's down because it used to be like one to twenty, I think is what it was. One to twenty. And now RPE is more easily tracked for people when it's just like, hey, how hard, how hard was that? One to ten, right? And that's a really good way to gauge that. I do that with a lot of my patients actually.
SPEAKER_02So and one thing that I would do if I was training an athlete that was general fitness-wise, trying to improve their cardiovascular health is I would just look at their resting heart rate. You come into me and we lay you down and your resting heart rate's uh 65, and then you know, in a month we're down to like 57. That's cardiovascular improvement. So very simple. Just take your resting heart rate, do a little bit of cardiovascular training over a couple weeks, and then retest your resting heart rate. Yeah. You can also look at like your heart rate variability as well, which you can get from tracking devices, right? Garmin, Whoop, Apple Watches do it as well. So that's awesome. Yeah. If you have any more questions on like cardiovascular, cardiovascular health and monitoring, you can always hit me up on Instagram. I like to nerd out on that stuff, especially the wearable devices. Yeah, just with how great they're getting. Um, I love the Whoop. Um, so if anybody wants to nerd out about wearable technology, hit me up. That's awesome.
SPEAKER_00I love it. Cool. Well, I asked you two back to back. They kind of went together. So, so I'll let you take away this this next one. All right. So another deep one for you.
SPEAKER_02Okay, I'm ready. I'm ready. How would you explain your training and or rehabilitation philosophy?
SPEAKER_00That's a great question. I don't know. Like the easiest way for me to say it is, and we say this a lot, I feel like I'm a broken record with this, but performance-based. Whether it's rehab, whether it's strength and conditioning or personal training that I'm doing here with somebody, it's like performance for whatever task that they have in their life that they like to do, right? Whether it's, oh, mixed martial arts, okay, let's improve your performance, make you a little bit stronger, more mobile for like mixed martial arts. That's amazing, right? Or someone who's a hiker, okay. And they want to do this crazy big hike coming up in like three months. It's like, okay, let's improve your performance so that you're ready to tackle the task at hand. I think that's the easiest way for me to say it is just it's performance-based. That's my whole philosophy behind everything. Um and like I said, we we say that a lot that everything's based on performance, but um, there's so many different metrics that fall into that. So it's like, okay, strength and endurance and just overall like fitness level too. So I don't know. I don't know the the easiest way besides just saying everything I do is performance based and rehab, yeah, there's a little bit more so like we have to we have to do what's correct for specific ailments or diseases or uh joint issues or anything like that. But then along with that healing process, then it's getting back to performance. It kind it kind of takes that shift a little bit. So that's my whole philosophy. Um rehab, one of the best things that I've heard, and I mean it might be really common, but at least around here, I haven't heard it from anyone else. Um, and pardon my language, but uh calm shit down, build shit up. There you go. Calm shit down, build shit up. Like that's it. Um, for for PT. It's like, yep, when you come see me, let's make sure things are under control that you're healing well and figure out what's actually going on. And then from there, we build it up, which is the performance side of that.
SPEAKER_02So nice. One thing that you had said in one of our previous conversations off podcast was test, don't guess. And that has stuck with me and I loved it because I'd never heard it framed like that, and it's so simple. Um, when it comes to personal training clients, athletes, patients, you can't just guess and assume, right? You have to continuously test to see if your methods or your training styles actually working. Yes. So I'd say part of your training philosophy, right? Test, don't guess. I love it.
SPEAKER_00So I love that. That's a big part of it. I yeah. I it's funny when I say those things because it's like that's the way I've been treating. That's that's what I've been doing for so long. So that's not always at the forefront, but I'm always testing every single time that I see a patient or that I'm training someone, I am always testing something, right? Whether it's like, okay, let's do more reps, let's do more weight, what does your form look like? How are you recovering? Like when they're walking in, like that's something I'm assessing too. But then actual actual test measures too. So, like let's say somebody with a joint replacement, um, comparing strength side to side with an actual like handheld dynam dynamometer, that's a great way to test. And it's super simple. And not enough PTs or strength coaches or whatever are doing true testing to actually see, are we improving? Right. They just keep throwing stuff at it, right? They just keep throwing stuff at it because the patient's like, well, okay, that felt good, that felt better, whatever. So they're like, oh, cool, cool. We'll just keep going, keep going. It's like if you're not actually taking a step back to look at the results and see what's improving, then you're guessing at that point. So yeah, test, don't guess.
SPEAKER_02I liked how you just talked about so basically informal evaluation, meaning you're watching how they move when they warm up or how their range of motion is when they're squatting.
SPEAKER_04Yep.
SPEAKER_02And this ranges from an athlete all the way to somebody doing rehab in PT. Yeah. I love that. It's not necessarily a formal test, right? Where we're testing joint angles and we're testing one RM back squat. You're literally evaluating them as the session goes on. Correct. Like they're telling me that they feel okay, but they don't look okay. So that way you can adjust volume and intensity of their training session, even though they're probably not feeling that great and probably lying to you like most athletes would, right? Nope, I'm feeling good. I'm feeling good. But you can very easily tell by how they're moving in the warm-up or you know, they're favoring one side of a limb or another. Yep. Like you can catch that. So yeah, I love that how you're basically evaluating the entire session. Yeah. I love that.
SPEAKER_00Yeah. It's it's great. I I like talking about that stuff. Um, because truly, as soon as that patient parks out in the parking lot and starts walking in, that's when the session starts for me. And that's when my brain starts clicking. Do you know what I mean? And I'm like, okay, cool. Seems like they're favoring that side. Oh, it was hard for them to step up onto the curb. Okay, what is their emotional feel when they first walk in, right? Are they sad? Are they drained? Or are they like more spray? Did they get good sleep, like good recovery? That also helps gauge what the session's gonna look like, truly. Um, and something I learned from from Jason in Arizona, he's a PT and AT. Um, our sessions are built around themes, which is really, really cool. Um, we're not just throwing a bunch of random crap at people. We we are periodized, we are progressing. And like I said, we're all making sure that everything's taken care of on the medical side. But for let's say a session, you came in and you're like, man, my my ankle's killing me and I've been working with you for a while. Okay, well, today we're gonna focus on single leg stuff, right? And that's the theme for the day. And then we're gonna do all sorts of different kinds of joint angles and muscle activation stuff, balance challenges, all like single leg focus for that day. Um, which is which is a cool approach. I really I like that, and that's kind of stuck with me for a long time. So anyway, yeah, test, don't guess. And then biggest thing is you should be constantly evaluating the person as soon as they park and start walking away. Yeah, I love that.
SPEAKER_02Not to bring it back to me though, one but one thing that came to my head was I like to use reps in reserve for intensity prescription rather than percent one RM. So let's say I have back squats program for the day, instead of me saying, hey, I'm gonna do let's say three reps at you know, 80 to 85 percent. Well, that guy might be really fatigued that day, or I might be fatigued and I might not be able to hit 85% for three reps. But the paper says you have to do it, or the program says you have to do it. Where most athletes are so stubborn and they're like, nope, I have to do it. It says 85% for three reps. Then they end up getting hurt because they weren't ready for that that day, and opposed to doing like a okay, I just need to lift heavy enough to where I have three reps in reserve. Yeah, that's the intensity that I need to hit. I love it. So that just came to my mind.
SPEAKER_00I dude, that is such a huge, huge shift in training that started to happen a few years ago. I would say probably six years ago is when like I started to hear about RPE and and like that power lifters were using RPE now, right? Because it was all percentage-based training for so long and and kind of just linear periodization, truly, where it was just like increasing your per percentage of one rep max or whatever. But like that drains you, that kills you, that hurts you, honestly. Like over time, there's only so long you can do that. Percentage-based training is really, really hard. RPE is such a great way to kind of go with the ebbs and flows of how you're feeling throughout the week. I love RPE and RIR, those go hand in hand, truly. Um, if you're at like a RPE eight, that's technically like an RIR of two, right? Leaving about two reps left in the tank because 10, an RPE 10 should be a full max out, right?
SPEAKER_02So it allows you to kind of naturally undulate your training throughout the week. Yes. And it gives people the tool to auto-regulate themselves without having to have a personal trainer or somebody gauging their intensity for them. Yeah. If I just know, hey, if I'm training strength, it needs to be anywhere from zero to three reps in reserve. Doesn't really matter what the weight is on the bar necessarily. I just have to hit that zero to three reps in reserve.
SPEAKER_03Yeah.
SPEAKER_00And one day it might be 150, right? On like bench press, let's say. Yeah. And then a different day, it could be the same RPE, same reps and everything, but now you're doing 160, right? Because it feels better that day. It's such a cool way to, like I said, just kind of ride the waves a little bit and still make progress in your training. Yeah. Sorry, didn't mean to cut you off, but yeah. No, you're good. Sorry for going off script there. Oh, dude, you're good. You're so good. All right, back to me. Uh, this one's fun. Um, how do you manage your minor injuries and flare-ups when your volume starts to increase for running? That's a really good question. Running is by far the number one like injury risk, I guess, when when athletes start increasing their running volume or they're prepping for a marathon. It's like, dude, I see so many overuse injuries. We've talked about that in earlier podcasts, but I want to know what you do to help manage that.
SPEAKER_02So, something that I've learned over the last couple of years while I've really started getting into more endurance training is restraint, something that I do not typically have when it comes to the gym. So the golden rule, at least what I've learned in grad school, right, is increasing volume or intensity, one or the other, by at least two and a half to 10% on a week-to-week basis. So most times if I'm exceeding that, probably that five to 10% range and increases in volume or intensity, I start to see injury. So I'm kind of putting the cart before the horse, right? I'm excited, I want to do these long bike rides, I want to do 100 milers, I want to do 150 mile days, but I really just can't. My body's just not to that point yet. A lot of that has to do with restraint, and it does help that now I have the proper education to know what proper progression looks like with that training modality. But in terms of managing that, it all has to do with, I would say, one, how I'm sleeping, how I'm eating, and then how I'm tracking my volume and intensity. I can't just blindly train every single week and say, I'm just gonna go for a two-hour ride today. I just can't do that. I know a lot of people will just be like, oh, I just went for a run today and I just kept running until I wanted to stop. Like, I can't do that, especially if I'm training for a race. That's where you start getting those overuse injuries, right? Patellar tendinitis, you know, my cheles has acted up a couple times. And when those things do happen, it sucks and it's really frustrating. And it's hard to not just suffer through the pain. But if I want to get better, I really have to die of that volume back. And that's usually what I do, right? And it sucks. Yeah, yeah, I think you're exactly right. So we talked about different modalities of conditioning. So, a good example of this. When I was training for high rocks last October, um, this was a couple months out. Like I started getting Achilles tentonitis pretty bad. And luckily, I had been spending a ton of time on my bike previous to that training for Lotojaw. So instead of running, I just got back on my bike and my Achilles started feeling better week after week. And I just almost had to start over where I gradually started increasing my running volume week to week and then getting off the bike as I got closer to high rocks, which by the time I had high ROX, my Achilles didn't have any issues. Um, but it was so hard to back off the training volume, especially when you have a competition coming up and you're like, no, why? Why I was doing so good. So yeah, that's a really hard question.
SPEAKER_00I like the way you answered it. Yeah. Before we move too much further, I just want to say um, any runners, uh, I'll speak specifically to runners because oftentimes they just want to keep pushing through it. They're like, well, it hurts, but I'm just gonna keep running because I don't want to lose my miles or I don't want to lose the progress, right? Um, dude, it is so important to have that restraint. And oftentimes in the PT realm, we have to be the bad guy, which is really hard sometimes to tell people, hey, you got to stop running so much, right? Um, and we do it, okay. I do it. I'll speak from personal experience. I do it in a place of like, listen, if you want to get to this goal, let's say a full marathon, if you want to get to that goal, we have to pull back just for a little bit, right? Pull that volume back just a little. Let's work on some strengthening, some mobility, make sure you feel good. And then we can slowly start ramping up. I think that's one of the biggest jobs of physical therapists. So I'm gonna talk to all the clinics that could or providers that could be out there listening to this. Make sure you're uh taking that into account, right? Because if you keep their volume the same, let's say this runner, or they keep increasing it week to week, but on top of that, then you keep adding in rehab volume too. You're just beating up that tendon even more, right? Like it can get really messy really quick if you're not also managing their running volume. So I'm glad that you talked about restraint a little bit, right? Because it does give that tissue time to heal. And there's other modalities of training that you can do in the meantime to allow that tissue to have a little bit of a break while we help build it back up and then we resume that volume, right? Or I guess build back up, not just automatically resume, but um build that volume back up for running. So that's huge. That's huge in my realm too. But that's what I wanted to ask about because I'm like, I wonder, I wonder how he manages his aches and pains and makes sure they don't get out of control.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, and I think it goes to say with my experience, even with a properly periodized training program, I was still getting minor aches and pains, which kind of just shows the importance of having a good coach that can make adjustments on the fly, right? I have this perfect programmed, you know, meso cycle where I'm increasing running volume by 5% week to week to week, and then I run into an overuse injury. Now what? Yeah, like now what? Right. Um I loved your question. It was really great. Restraint's kind of the answer there. I think proper periodization, proper progression is also the right answer. But I also know it is it's really hard to show restraint, especially when you're a competitive athlete, and you almost take it personally when you get injured like you did something wrong. Right, right. Right? Like you've been there. But restraint's really the answer. Yeah, it's way better to take a couple steps back, you know, so then you can prepare 10 steps forward instead of continue to train on that injury. And then when perfor when the day comes to race, like you're just tanked.
SPEAKER_00Right. Right. And here's the thing you can push through that injury on, let's say, the competition day, the race day, or whatever. Oftentimes people can get through it, but then they are like, man, that sucked. I don't want to do that again. My body hurt, and now my shins hurt, my my feet hurt, whatever their issue might have been, maybe Achilles. They're like, now I just don't want to get back into running. I'm so turned away from it because I had such a terrible experience. It's like, no, pull back, pull back, pull back. So then you're prepared and feel good about your day of competition or race. And then you'll be even more prepared after that because you'll be like, wow, that actually felt really good. I did better than I thought I would, right? And I recovered well. And then you can take that next step of like, okay, let's put on miles. Let's, I don't know, whatever their goals might be. Yeah, right. Yeah.
SPEAKER_02So I love that. No, that's great. My my experience with it, right? Was so high rocks. So Haley and I flew to Boston to do that. And when you look at it from that lens of like, okay, so I'm traveling all the way across the United States to do this race. I don't want to like not enjoy that. I want to be injury free and I want to race to my full capacity because I'm making an entire trip out of this thing. And luckily, I was able to manage those injuries right by showing a little bit of restraint, taking a step back, reevaluating what my progression should look like in terms of my running volume. I adjusted and then I made it work and then I performed super well.
unknownYeah.
SPEAKER_02And then same thing with training for Lotojaw last uh September, which for those of you who don't understand, is like a 200-mile bike race, right? Where you start in Logan, Utah, and then you cycle to Jackson, which I'm doing again, right? This September. Yeah. So um, yeah, like it's so much more enjoyable to do that race injury free. Like you can actually let loose and perform. Yes. Where we're getting caught up in the weeds of like, oh, I can't have a hard training day because my knee hurts. It's like, okay, like it's just a training day, it's not the real thing, not the competition.
SPEAKER_01So pull it back.
SPEAKER_00So then I I think of it as like a slingshot, right? Sometimes you have to pull it back, but then when you are ready to go, you let go of that slingshot and it catapults you forward, right? Like that's how that's how I think the whole process should be when you are dealing with like an overuse injury or whatever. It's like, yep, pull it back, and then it will allow you to go so much further and be so much more comfortable during the actual competition. Cause then what what you said, you can actually perform at your capacity, right? You're not held back by an injury that you're fighting through during the race or whatever. So I think that's huge.
SPEAKER_02Well, you spend, you know, how how many hours on the bike, and you're the only thing you can think of is my freaking knee hurts. Nobody wants to do that.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, that's terrible. Bad experiences. Yeah. I mean, then that shapes your your idea for the next one. So that's really hard. Um okay, cool.
SPEAKER_02I asked you my third, so you're up. So, what is one thing you wish more people knew about you professionally or personally?
SPEAKER_00Um, man. One thing that I have a hard time with small talk, and I have a really hard time with don't get me wrong, I love building relationships and being close with my patients or my clients and stuff like that. But it's something that was actually really hard for me in grad school. Um because you have to have really good like bedside manners and talk to people, make them feel comfortable and everything like that. And I've gotten really good at that. But my whole life and my whole process in terms of treatment is based on getting you better, right? And performing better, feeling more comfortable, getting out of pain, right? So when someone's here working out, doing exercises and stuff, my brain is constantly churning and being like, oh man, how can we make this better? How can we progress this? Oh, is that comfortable for them? Like, dah dah duh, right? That's where my mind is at the whole time. I'm not making Small talk with patients. So they probably think that I'm just standing there and that I don't care or whatever. And I always try to ask questions about like, oh, what do you do for work? What's your family like? Like, I don't know what'd you do this weekend, right? But small talk has always been really, really hard for me. So as I get more sessions with a patient, it's easier because we can have deeper conversations and like I actually get to know that person more. So that's great. But initially, I'm sure people think that I'm just some grumpy guy watching them exercise and saying, like, oh, we got to do this better, got to do this better. Um, I think that's a really hard thing is having a good balance between, yep, I'm here to get you better. That is my job, that is my priority. I have to do this. Like, well, have to do this. I want to do this for people. Um, and also being nice and friendly and making sure that I'm not just blowing them out of the water with all sorts of training that they've never been exposed to before. So um, I think that's the one thing I want people to know about me that sometimes it is hard for me to make like small talk conversation. I do my best, but you got to realize my brain is strictly focused on making sure you're making progress. Yeah, that's for sure. It's a it's a very hard thing.
SPEAKER_01So I don't know what to say.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, to me, that just shows that you value intentional relationships. I not to bring this back on me, but I I think we relate on that level of hating small talk. Don't really have the time for it. I we appreciate intentional conversations that are are purpose driven, and sometimes we just don't have enough space for the how's the weather conversations, right? Like we really value deep connection, deep conversation with people. And when those conversations start to get more surface level, me personally, I'm just not interested in those conversations to the point where I've been less apologetic now than I used to be at not being that person, where now I'm just gonna be who I am. And if you aren't okay with it, then that's okay with me. I I value deep connection and intentional conversations. Like, just don't ask me about the weather, you know what I mean? That's so funny. Yeah, you have to have bedside manners when it comes to clients and things like that. And like you said, the more you get to know your clients and your patients and your athletes, the more connected you feel and the more in-depth conversations you can have, which I think is great. It's all about building those deep relationships. But who wants to have a hundred friends where you have no deep connection and you're just asking surface level conversations? Or would you rather have, you know, a handful of people that you just connect with super well and you guys can go super deep on whatever it is that you're talking about? Exactly. So that's my take on that.
SPEAKER_00I think that's great and very similar to me, right? Because my brain, so just really quick, like once again, I don't like talking about myself. I don't like trying to toot my own horn, is always the term that I use. But man, when I'm trying to run a business and handle billing and insurance and my notes for patients and then getting new patients and then also gym members. I'm running the front desk, I'm answering phones, I have emails all day long, right? All this stuff, I don't, I don't have time for little small talk, right? Yeah. And then when that when a specific patient comes in, it's like, dude, I'm so focused on you being the patient right now and like getting you better that once again, I don't have that capacity in my brain right now to be able to make like good small talk, I guess. Like I want to be friendly and I want to talk to you about what's important to you. But man, small talk is hard for me, really, really hard, especially at this point in in the business. And with getting new patients, it's like I always want to be friendly, I want to make them feel welcome and everything like that. But you do that through building trust, right? And like that's why that initial valuation is also very important because I get a full hour just to talk to the person and get to know them. And um, that's yeah, man, it's it's hard. And I struggled with it in grad school. I wrote a lot of papers about that because um they knew performance-wise and grade-wise, and like my knowledge and everything like that was really, really good. But they're like, Where do you see yourself struggling? And I'm like, definitely like the small talk stuff, right? Because they everyone has different hardship kind of areas, I guess. Um, and we we called it like a quadrant, I guess. So you four quadrants, and mine was the the quadrant four um most difficult, which was the small talk stuff. So it was something that I've worked on for a long time and it's getting better. But once again, my brain is just full right now. So I don't I don't really have the capacity for it.
SPEAKER_02No, that makes sense, man. I I don't think you need to apologize for that. I think there's nothing wrong with having intentional conversations and avoiding superficial ones. Yeah.
SPEAKER_00So yeah, and I I love the intentional conversations with patients. Um not to like keep going on this this same topic, but when I get to actually see the patient's personality and give them someone to trust, right? That is so big for me. They start asking more questions, more meaningful questions. They start asking about my life. They start, they start explaining like why they're not sleeping good, like deeper conversation than just, like I said, the weather or something like that, or what'd you do last weekend, plans for this weekend, blah, blah, blah. Um, sometimes those are good icebreakers, but man, I value so much when patients can truly start opening up because it only helps the treatment. So absolutely.
SPEAKER_02I think back to when I was personal training and the relationships that I was able to gain with long-term clients, right? Sure, it starts off with, hey, how's the weather? How's your day at work? But then it morphs into this deep relationship where you know all the ins and outs of this person's life, and you're almost like their personal trainer and their mentor and their like shoulder to cry on, and their person that they come to for advice or for just an ear to listen to. And I think that's great. And that's one of the things that I love about like the fitness industry is it's not always just about how strong can you get. Yeah, like it's a community. So I I think it's cool when those relationships morph into a more deeper connection, right? And that's just gonna make you a better practitioner when you have those clients and patients that you can actually have some deep conversations with that they're gonna continuously come back for more because you provide more than just okay, I'm more fit, but that you're also providing them like a friend, yeah, right. Which I think is great. Yep.
SPEAKER_00Like I said, it boosts everything, boosts everything, mood and just the the outlook on fitness. Yeah, for sure. Um is it back to me? I think so. Okay. What's the coolest thing that you've learned since being in your master's program? Oh, dang, dude. That's so hard. I know, I know. Because I'm sure you've learned so much, right? If somebody asked me about my PT program and said, what's the coolest thing with that? Like, holy crap, that would take me an hour to figure out. So if you need some time, let me know, but I want you to think about it.
SPEAKER_02I've got a couple. Okay. So the first one is, and I'm not gonna go into a lot of depth, but just exercise physiology as a whole and just diving a little bit deeper into it to the point where you really understand how to train somebody at like the molecular level and why things work and why they don't. And being able to explain that, like I won't do it today because it gets pretty complex. Um, but I never thought that I would really enjoy diving into molecular biology and bioenergetics and you know, exercise fizz in the way that I have, and I just I love it, it makes sense to me. I've always sucked at math, English has never been my thing. I can't spell worth of shit. Like you can ask anybody that knows me, suck at spelling. But for whatever reason, in my head, like physiology just clicks, and I love it. But second to that, I would say I would say concurrent strength and conditioning. So when I came into my master's program, I loved concurrent training. So I loved mixing modalities, whether it was being a cyclist, but also being strong enough to, you know, PR an Olympic lift, right? Not super practical, but I I loved the idea of training multiple qualities at the same time. And the first couple of papers that I had to write, I had to do a lot of research to back my claims on concurrent training, and there wasn't a ton in regards to how I was training prior to getting my master's degree. And I am lucky enough to have some really good professors that kind of walk me through hey, concurrent training is great, but there's certain ways that you have to do it. So, for instance, I was writing programs that had like maybe eight different mixed qualities that I was training. I had some hypertrophy work, I had some strength work, I had some anaerobic conditioning, some aerobic conditioning, and a lot of them worked together, but it was almost too many things at one time. So, me personally learning how to vertically integrate certain characteristics so you can train a couple of qualities at the same time and adapt optimally and maintain other qualities. Like we've talked on different episodes about periodization and stuff. But for example, I'm a tactical athlete, right? Which is I'm so I'm very passionate about it. I want to write the best strength and conditioning programs out there for law enforcement officers, firefighters, um, all tactical athletes, right? And they have to be good at almost everything. They have to be able to sprint, they have to be able to change direction, they have to have the robotic capacity to endure long, drawn-out scenarios, but they also need the capacity to repeat, you know, high-intensity bouts. So, like repeat sprintability. So the biggest question for me was always okay, how do I make the best program for tactical athletes or somebody that needs to be good at everything? So that was like the question I had to ask myself when I started this program. And I'm learning the answers, right? And learning how to create a program or a macrocycle that hits all of these different neuromuscular and skill characteristics and be able to manipulate them in a way that you're making progress in all of them without I guess putting them all in the same training week or training day, if that makes sense. It's awesome. So it's awesome, super complex, but I love I love program design and periodization, and it really is like a game of Tetris. It's just make the pieces fit, and I can just spend hours just writing down workouts and and programs. So I I love it. I'm figuring it out. Um yeah, super fun. That's awesome.
SPEAKER_00So that's really cool. Yep. Um would you say that your program is is helpful for that? Because like I also know that you like to learn on your own and do a lot of your own research and stuff. So is your program that you're doing, does it help reinforce those things? Like, um, I know in terms of like the molecular stuff that you were talking about, actual like exercise fizz stuff, absolutely. That probably helps absolutely expand that knowledge. But in terms of like program design and what the stuff that you're super passionate about, does your program help boost that for you? Or are they like, oh, well, no, you need to do it this way, this way, and like correct more?
SPEAKER_02No, I think it does. I I think there's been a gray area between what I like to do and the best way to approach it. A lot of my professors understand that not everything's gonna be optimal. And for the tactical profession, honestly, nothing's gonna be optimal because you can't train one thing specifically because you're neglecting other things. So, what I've been able to do is kind of take my own training philosophy and things that I've learned on my own and through being a tactical athlete and kind of merge that with the scientific foundation that I'm learning in school. It comes down to being that evidence-based practitioner, right? Where I'm mixing, okay, well, what does the science say and what is practical application of this look like? And I think I'm in such a cool, unique spot with a lot of opportunity because I am getting my master's right. Um, I am on a SWAT team and I have experience, like years and years and years of experience of training and just being in the gym myself. So it's really cool, like the programs I'm able to come up with and different ideas, and then finding the literature that actually supports what I'm doing, which it is out there, and I have found quite a bit of it. So the stuff I've kind of I've brewing up is pretty exciting. It's cool.
SPEAKER_00So yeah, and I can tell that you're excited about it, which is really the best part about it, right? Something that that excites you, gets you out of bed in the morning because you're like, dude, I can't wait to keep doing this because it's awesome.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, it's it's funny and it's hard because it's like, okay, how do I how do I train for load of jaw with still being like really good at my job and being a good tactical athlete, right? Like it's hard, but those are the questions that people will come to you with as a strength and conditioning coach. It's like, hey, like, well, how do I train for this? But I also want this thing, and I want to look good naked, and I want to like be a an endurance athlete, but I also want to like power lift too. Like, people are gonna have some really weird requests, so you have to find a way to make it all fit.
SPEAKER_01So yeah, that's awesome. But cool. Um, okay, cool.
SPEAKER_00That was my fourth. So back to you, back to you. I'm sorry if that was confusing to anybody. Um I I mean, hey, I followed along, and uh it's not like I'm the smartest person in strength and conditioning. I mean, I have good background, but you know, yours is definitely much more advanced in terms of your program. So yeah, always hit us up with questions.
SPEAKER_02Okay, so my next one is what advice do you have for someone who wants to start a career path in physical therapy or in coaching?
SPEAKER_00I'll speak for the physical therapy side of things. Um, because coaching, uh, there's a lot of things I could say about that, right? Get a certification, do research, make sure you're really well trained, make sure you've learned from other coaches, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. But let me dive into the PT side of it. Um you need to know that PT school, uh, and this is for any of the listeners, um, is probably one of the hardest things that you're gonna do. PT school for me was the hardest time of my life for sure. Um, crazy hours, long classes, super stressful, clinical rotations and practicals and skills. Anyway, you need to know that it's really hard and you better have a passion for it. It better not be something that you're just stepping into because you're like, well, I didn't know what else to do or where else to go. They try to weed people out like that because they make sure, well, most programs try to make sure that you have anywhere from like 100 to 200 um observation hours in a PT clinic, which is really cool because they want to make sure that you're passionate about the field and that you understand what actually goes into being a physical therapist before you just jump into the program and spend usually six figures, usually, um, on a program. So if someone's wanting this career path, know that it's super hard. Um we get picked on in terms of in terms of uh insurance reimbursement rates. They will continue to drop. That's why so many PTs are going the cash pay route. Um, for me, it's important to do cash pay and insurance. I'll make a little side note because I want to make sure that any patient that comes to see me is comfortable with either using their insurance or cash pay and they can be consistent and see me for as long as possible and not have to worry about a tight bank account, if that makes sense. So insurance is still important to me, but PTs get kind of slammed into the ground in terms of reimbursement rates. Every single year it goes down. So it sucks. And you just make sure you're passionate about this field because it's not the most rewarding. It's very grueling. The average burnout rate is like 12 to 15 years for a physical therapist before they just leave the field completely. So make sure it's something that you really want to do and you're thinking about long-term success. There's so many great things that you can do with the degree, not only ortho, not only sport. I know that's kind of my whole, my whole shtick, but uh think about neuro. I love neuro so much. And if I wasn't doing sport and ortho, I would be doing doing more neuro rehab stuff. But it is insanely hard and grueling. And oftentimes your patients aren't making crazy gains, right? If you're treating someone with like cerebral palsy, it's like that's lifelong, right? And you want to make sure that they're functional and still getting good training, working on balance, making sure that they're safe with like transfers or getting out of bed, whatever. But like they're not actually making crazy progress each time, if that makes sense. So it's a really hard field, but PT is so flexible because you can do pediatrics, you can do pelvic floor, sport and ortho, neuro, um, geriatric populations. Like there's just so many routes to go. So keep your mind open because I didn't think I would like neuro at all. And then I got into the PT program and absolutely loved it. So I still try to I I let people know as often as possible that like so MS and Parkinson's and also like dementia, those are some of my favorite patients to treat, actually. So, in terms of the way I treat for sport and and ortho, it's actually surprising how much crossover there is for like a Parkinson's patient that needs uh dual task training. It's it's really fun. So I'm getting way off into the weeds here. But if you're interested in a career in physical therapy, know that it's hard. The program, no matter where you go school-wise, it's really, really hard. And then reimbursement rate, pay-wise, it's not like we're making crazy book bucks right out of school. You can make a good career out of it and have a good life, but man, people get burned out quick in this field, really, really quick. So, yeah, that's my whole PT side of it. Coaching wise, like I said, get your cert, get trained, make sure that you have good training principles and that you're able to, I don't know, do safe and effective training for any client that you see. So sweet.
SPEAKER_02I like that advice. Sounds like it's more about making a difference past getting the degree. You talk about burnout rate with PTs. It's again bringing it back to that purpose-driven mindset where I'm not just going to PT school to get this degree to say I'm a doctor of PT and make a ton of money or whatever. Like we've both been young, we've both been financially driven or you know, whatever. And some people are, and that's fine. But it sounds like to me, and tell me if I'm wrong, that true success in the physical therapy field comes down to people that are really passionate about their craft.
SPEAKER_00Oh, a hundred percent, dude. People, people leave the field really quick sometimes. They will get their degree, and I've seen it firsthand where they get out and start working and they're like, Wow, I I hate this. This sucks. Like, I'm seeing 20 patients a day, and then I have to go home and do do charting for three hours or whatever, and then they finally get to hang out with their family, and that's nonstop. It's it's every day, all week, especially if you work at a busy clinic. And once again, it's because our reimbursement rate sucks. So it's like this whole cycle that PTs get thrown in and it just leaves a really bad taste in your mouth, honestly. So, yeah, it's way more about passion and actually caring about getting people better instead of being like, Oh, I need to see more patients, I need more money, da-da-da, because then you'll you're just gonna run yourself into the ground.
SPEAKER_02So yeah. I like that you said that there is flexibility within physical therapy. So, for you on a personal level, if let's say you get bored training one type of client, maybe you can transition and start training another. Yeah. So you have flexibility there to kind of change what you're passionate about. And my guess is, and I could be wrong, but as you get older, like your biases are probably gonna change a little bit. For sure. And again, going back to the evidence-based practice and trying to stay up to date with the most recent literature, like your practice is probably gonna change too, which to me seems pretty fun, right? To try new things as we progress, you know, as a community to learn the the greatest things you can do for rehab.
SPEAKER_00Exactly. There's new research coming out all the time. So it's like, of course, we're gonna adapt to that, right? Because we don't want to be left in the dust. It's like, no, we want to be on the leading edge of of rehab and getting people better and back to what they love. So yeah, I love that. Um, change in variety is huge. There's lots of people in PT that go, yep, I want to be ortho in sport, and then they realize how competitive it is and how and uh honestly, like how many patients you have to see in the ortho world to make a solid living. So then they transition to like neuro rehab or they do like part-time at a hospital, and that way they they get this variety, which keeps them much more, I guess, entertained for long term. Yeah. So heck yeah, dude. Yep. Okay. Uh back to my five. This is my fifth one here. Yep. Okay, ready? This one is one I typed on the fly here because I had those four before you showed up, but this one I was leaving for, you know, depending on how the questions were were going. Um, my fifth one is what is your purpose? Because you asked me, and I was not ready for that deep of like, yeah, what is my purpose here? And like really diving into that. So, in terms of strength and conditioning and why you're getting your masters and why you like doing this podcast and stuff like that, like, what is your purpose behind all of it? What what do you want people to know?
SPEAKER_01That is a really great and deep question. I feel like it's always changing.
SPEAKER_02It was it was your question, though. So good. The funny thing is, is I was writing that question. I'm like, shit, I'm gonna have to probably answer the same exact question. So I would say I knew from a really young age that I was gonna be good at let's call it fitness. I had a good passion for. It. I was relatively good at it. When I was playing sports, I loved the strength and conditioning side of things more than I enjoyed the actual sport. I would have much rather spent my time in the gym than actually playing football. So to me, what purpose is is combining what I'm passionate about, what I'm good at, and how I can apply that to the majority and make a difference. So my purpose with the podcast and with my degree is to make even the slightest difference in the quality of life of whoever's listening or following my training programs. Whether that be a somebody in the general public or whether it's a tactical athlete saving lives, pulling people from a burning building, it doesn't really matter. I just want to touch somebody's life in even the slightest way. I want to give back. I spend a lot of time getting really good at my craft of exercise. That to me, it only makes sense if I'm doing that to help other people. None of what I'm doing is necessarily selfish. I do like to train, and there's certain things that I do in terms of my goals personally, but as I've gotten older, most of my goals have turned to be more selfless. So I'm not trying to toot my own horn, but I just want to live a very purpose-driven life, and a big part of that for me is service. And I'm taking what I'm best at and what I enjoy, and I'm gonna apply that. So that's the best way I can think of it on the on the fly. So I love it.
SPEAKER_00I love it. Purpose, purpose is huge. Um, something you talked about. I guess this question a little tack on here. We'll we'll say 5A here. Um, do you think training and how many hours you put into your your prep for a race or high rocks or anything like that, or the training that you've done in the past that was more strength or Olympic lifting focused, do you think that's selfish?
SPEAKER_02I I think it is selfish in a way, but in a really good way. Yeah. I have learned more about myself through fitness than I think I have in any other way. Whether that be through the mental health battles or the body dysmorphia battles or, you know, hard times that I've gone through in my life, the gym has always been there for me. It's always been something that I can control. Um, whether that's healthy or not, I don't know. But I would say I've been very selfish in terms of my fitness goals in the past. But I think, again, I think it's in the best way. Not in a way that I'm neglecting my family or my friends. I used to do that, but now I have a more healthy approach to fitness. But I think everybody needs to be a little bit selfish in a way that they have to fill their cup before they help other people. If you're not fulfilled yourself, how do you expect to make a difference in somebody else's life?
unknownYeah.
SPEAKER_02Right. And fitness has been a way that I've been able to fill my cup and learn about myself mentally and physically that I'm not sure I would have been able to figure out any other way. And I know there's so many different ad so many different avenues that people can take to, I don't know, let's call it be artistic, right? So there's people that paint, there's people that make music, there's people that do all sorts of different crafts that allow them to express themselves. I just do that through fitness, right? Um but yeah, I I know myself the best when I'm on a bike ride and it's just me and some good music, honestly. And I don't I don't think I can beat that. Yeah. So yeah.
SPEAKER_00It's it's just interesting. The reason I asked that question is because I saw an interview with uh Jay Cutler way back in the day. And and I I agree with it to a point, but I think it's uh a type of selfishness that is okay. I don't know about the the elite bodybuilder type of dedication, right? But for powerlifting, it took a lot of time out of my day and away from my family and away from friends. We talked about this on the last one, um, or maybe two episodes ago, but it is a form of being selfish, right? It's that time is only for you. Everything that you're doing in the gym is to improve, improve your performance, or make your muscles bigger, or make you look better, right? So it's all of like this it's something that I have fought for a long time because I'm like, well, yeah, it's selfish, but like it's so important for my health that it kind of outweighs that that selfish side of it because then I can approach relationships a lot better. I can approach people in a better light, I guess, because I feel better about myself. So it's like it's hard because yes, it is selfish. You're spending hours and hours just focused on you and your performance, your training, whatever. So I don't know. I go back and forth. I just wanted to ask that while we were talking about like purpose and passion and everything, um, and how much time we spend in the gym and talking about it. Um, it's it's something hard that I still worry about. I'm like, man, do people think I'm like super selfish because I'm spending two hours every day at the gym or whatever? It's like, but to me, it's so important, right? Like you said, I gotta make sure my own cup is filled before I start pouring it out for other people.
SPEAKER_02So I think you have to decide for yourself where that line is. Both of us have had experience where we've had an unhealthy relationship with exercise, where we were spending more time in the gym than we should have because there were other values that we had that we were neglecting. Where I think now we have a way better relationship with our goals, even if they are a little bit selfish. But I would argue that everybody needs to be selfish in a certain way. I know I just talked about my goals being pretty selfless, but in one way that I'm never gonna apologize for being selfish is filling my own cup. And that goes beyond just fitness. That goes beyond just having time to myself to gather my thoughts, to sit down with Royce and work on my mental health, to work on my physical health. I'm trying to be my best self for other people, specifically my significant other or my friends or my family. And in order to put out the best version of myself for other people in terms of being of service, I have to fill my cup too. Trevin's pretty worthless if he's not taking care of himself, right? So people are battling with is it selfish if I'm following my goals or pursuing a race, or it doesn't really matter what it is, there's gonna be some selfish aspect to it. But I I think it's okay to be selfish a little bit. Yeah, you just have to decide, like, hey, what are my values here? And is this value-based or not?
SPEAKER_04Yeah.
SPEAKER_02Like before me saying no to Thanksgiving dinner so I could, you know, lose a couple extra pounds, that wasn't value-based. That was I was scared to not look good in the mirror, right? Where now it's like, hey, like I value exercise because the mental clarity that it gives me. So I'm gonna work out. So I'm okay telling somebody no if they want to hang out, but I haven't exercised that day. I'm okay saying no. And if that's something that upsets somebody, that's that's honestly not my responsibility. I have to fill my cup first.
SPEAKER_00Yeah.
SPEAKER_02So I like it.
SPEAKER_00That's a good way to approach it because yeah, training can can get away from us and we can kind of get sucked into it, especially when you're competitive, when you want to perform and and look the best, be the best, be the strongest, whatever. It's like it it can take you for a ride sometimes. So it's important to draw that line of being like, yep, this is my time, but I also need to make sure that I am now applying myself to other people in a positive way. I think is the best way for me to think about it. But um, that was my that was my last question. I don't know. Did you have another one? Or I did, I have one.
SPEAKER_02Okay, I wasn't sure what number for you, but I I appreciate the question that you just asked. I think that's a very deep question. And honestly, we'll be thinking about that one past the podcast. So what does the shop what is a what is a sh physio shop look like five years from now?
SPEAKER_00The best PT clinic in eastern Idaho, the the place where people want to come and be treated because they heard about it from their friends, they heard about it from their teammates, they they see the results that people are getting. I want it to be the spot for performance physical therapy. That's that's the goal. Um, whether the colors change or we get a different front desk or we move locations or whatever, still what remains is me and the physio shop name and just basically the passion behind it, right? And like the success from individuals that come here and trust us. That's what I want to see in five years is like I want the clinic to be full, I want the gym to be full, I want it to have a great vibe. And honestly, I want people to seek us out. That's the biggest thing, is like be at the top of the top of the field. So don't get me wrong, there's physical therapy for everybody. There are so many clinics around here and so many different specialists that focus on different kinds of treatment approaches. But if you're focused on performance, this will be the place. Hey Cat, dude.
SPEAKER_02I love it. Well, I believe in you. I think you're gonna crush, man. You're doing great things. So I think that's gonna happen for you. Actually, I don't think I I know it is. So thank you. Thank you.
unknownOkay.
SPEAKER_00Well, that was my last question. Perfect. Well, we'll end it there. But then uh next week, same thing, Monday, Monday morning. Um, we keep talking about guests. So I think we should start reaching out to your guy Royce, my mom, who's also a therapist, or we can um we can get on some some docs that I've been talking to, which would be pretty fun. So sweet. But yeah, otherwise, thanks everyone for tuning in and listening. Um, this one once again over an hour. We're doing great with that. So we could talk forever. But let's go. Yep. All right, everyone. Talk to you next time.