SHOP TALK - Episode 9: Needs Analysis for the Tactical Athlete

On today's episode, Trevin leads the discussion and breaks down a full needs analysis that he created through research, exposure, and personal experience as  a Tactical Athlete. 

Transcript

SPEAKER_01 0:02

Welcome to Shop Talk. I'm Tyler. I'm Trevor. We are here to break down the latest trends in rehabilitation, strength and conditioning, and fitness all through a lens of evidence-based practice. Our goal is simple cut through the noise of the fitness industry and talk about what actually works, why it works, and how you can apply it. On today's podcast, we will be discussing the needs analysis of the tactical athlete and a brief summary of its implications on program design. That's a big word for a doctor over here. All right. So I see your next line here that we got.

SPEAKER_00 0:36

So go ahead. Yep. So the question I brought to the podcast today is one I believe a lot of the listeners can res it resonate with. And that is what is each of our hierarchy of energy drinks? So top three to five. So I'll list my top three. So number one, I've got to go with the rain rainbow sherbet. Second is gotta be the OG white monster. And then three um is the wild bear or wild orchard bucked up. I've never had that one. It's so good. I'll have to it's like an apple flavor, but it's not, it's not like a sour apple. Okay. That's also it's kind of hard to explain. So it's hard to find it. There's not a lot of gas stations that have it, other than I think shakas.

unknown 1:25

Okay.

SPEAKER_02 1:26

Very random.

SPEAKER_01 1:27

Very random. Yeah. Um, no, that sounds good because every energy or pre-workout, whenever they try to do an apple, it's always like a sour green apple. And I am not a fan of that. So um for my top three, definitely the white monster, OG, zero sugar, whatever. That's my go-to, right? I do get sick of it sometimes because I'll have like six a week. So I get kind of sick of it. Uh, the next one, if I need something hard-hitting with a lot of caffeine, then it's actually the rain white haze, I think is what it's called. It's like one of their newer flavors. That one's one of my favorites. And then my old go-to in PT school was the rain white gummy bear. That was a really good one. Yeah, with the green and the I I don't can't remember what other colors on the can, but I like that one the most.

SPEAKER_00 2:12

So yeah, lots of caffeine. Yeah, caffeine addicts. I I had a thought when I wrote that down, and thank goodness I didn't have parents that allowed me to drink energy drinks in high school because that would have been a problem. Oh, yeah, big time. Yep. I remember I remember sitting in class and there were kids drinking monster energy drinks, and just in your head, you're like, Oh, those are so bad for you. Like, I would never, and here I am. You're saying like six a week, and I'm like, like two a day, easy, like no problem. Like pushing a thousand milligrams a day, probably.

SPEAKER_01 2:46

Yeah. So well, hey, I mean, based on the research, uh I we can dive into that really quick. That's safe. That's safe levels. I mean, dude, even for a um uh I was looking into it because my coach started mentioning it. I was coached by Johnny Candido for some powerlifting stuff, and he's like, Yeah, you can actually take up to like what was it? Oh, it was a crazy amount. It was like nine times something. I can't remember what it is. It's not nine times your weight, because I feel like that's a little excessive, but there was a range, okay? Yeah. So for me and my body weight at the time I was 205, I could take up to 900 milligrams of caffeine and be safe at a competitive level. Yeah. So, and by all means, it's shown in the research that caffeine it pre increases your force output truly.

SPEAKER_00 3:31

So improves performance, cognitive ability, rate of force development, all that good stuff. Everything makes everything go faster. And shit tastes good too. So it's kind of funny. Um, I think of so I wrote down uh confirmation bias. You're never gonna find anybody in the fitness world to try to find research that says caffeine's bad for you. So obviously, we're only gonna point to the research that allows us to confidently say a thousand milligrams of caffeine a day is okay. Yep. Confirmation bias, that's important to point out for sure. For sure. That's funny. Cool. Heck yeah, man. Well, before we get started, um, I want to give Tyler a quick shout-out for letting me take the lead on today's episode. So the topic that we're discussing today is something I've been super excited to discuss and is pretty much a brief culmination of the work that I have done in and out of the classroom as a tactical athlete. Um, to kind of break down today's episode, we're gonna talk about tactical athletes as professional athletes. What is what is a needs analysis and what does it look like for the tactical athlete, program design implications based on the needs analysis, and then key factors to consider. Excited. I'm excited. Um, Tyler's gonna ask me questions as we go, and uh yeah.

SPEAKER_01 4:49

Yep. And I'm learning with all the listeners as well. Um, he already gave me a heads up that he's like, yeah, I'm gonna be reading some stuff because it gets deep, right? Like there's there's a lot that goes into this. It's not just we're throwing topics out. So um, yeah, I'm excited to learn. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 5:04

So let's uh dive into this. So to get started, I want to talk about tactical athletes as professionals. So first responders and specialized tactical units are athletes and should be viewed as professional athletes. That is my opinion. This means that the athlete must train like a professional athlete. The standards should start high and also remain high. And I think this is a battle that a lot of tactical fitness professionals struggle with. I have the utmost respect for all first responders, but if it starts to become something like just a job to collect a paycheck from, and you're not passionate about perfecting your craft within the means that you have, I don't think you're acting like a true professional. And I would argue that you're kind of letting your teammates and your community down. So this is something that I'm extremely passionate about, and probably isn't the most popular topic to discuss. People get a little bit defensive when I bring it up. But if you're a tactical athlete, the gym just has to be part of your day to day. It's just a big piece of the puzzle that if you're not doing it, you're missing a huge part of your performance. And I do think you're kind of letting your, let's say, your team down or your community, right?

SPEAKER_02 6:22

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 6:23

Um, I didn't pull up the stats. Um, I I thought about it, but I don't like point fingers or anything, but I know like the obesity rate within first responders is extremely high and higher than it should be, right? And to me, I'm super passionate about that. And it's not me necessarily poking or like making fun of somebody or making them feel less than. I just want people to realize the way I view tactical athletes as is you are a professional athlete, but the stakes that are at hand isn't just a win-loss column in a sport, right? We're talking about life or death situations, right? Yeah, so I take it super personally, I take fitness super personally. So I hope I'm not offending anybody when I say like we gotta keep the standards high and continue to raise that bar instead of just kind of conforming to the, you know, let's keep lowering the standards, lowering the standards just so we can get more people to fit in the box. Like that's in my opinion, not the way to go. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 7:18

So no, I like that. And even though it's it's your opinion, I agree with your opinion, right? I'm not in that space, I'm not in that realm. Yeah. But dude, if you are relying on somebody, if I'm relying on somebody to come save my life or my family, I want them to be as prepared and as fit as possible to do the task at hand, whether that's a firefighter that has to save my family from a fire, or it's a cop that's chasing down a bad guy, right? Like I don't know. That's the first thing that comes to my mind. But then in my field, the way this ties in a little bit, um, did you ever see that video? I think it was like during the World Cup. I I can't even remember. Soccer player gets injured on the field, and you see those athletic trainers running out there slow as shit, and they have these first aid bags or whatever. And it's like, dude, if somebody has a snap bone, like a compound fracture, and let's say they're bleeding out on the field, right? And these people are waddling out there because they're very slow, they're not fit. It's like that is precious time, right?

SPEAKER_00 8:14

So, as like a medical professional, I can totally see where you're coming from. Yeah, and there's implications to that train of thought in terms of day-to-day professions as well, not necessarily just tactical athletes, right? In terms of like being a provider and protector of your family, right? We don't need to get into that today, but I have a really hard time understanding why people don't want to step up as a provider necessarily and be like, I just want to be in shape and capable for my family because sometimes first responders aren't gonna get there, and you gotta be the one to step up. Like, can you step up?

SPEAKER_02 8:49

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 8:50

So something goes down in a in a Walmart on a Sunday afternoon, like what you gonna do? You know what I mean? So not to get into you know, detail or scare people off, but like it's a true reality, right? And so my passion for fitness like it grows way beyond tactical athletes, right? But we'll try to we'll try to stay on track. So that's great, right? It's great. Um, but no, before we continue, I also wanted to just define tactical athlete for people that don't necessarily know what I mean by that. So tactical athletes, it's basically a huge umbrella that has you have your LEOs, so law enforcement officers, SWAT officers, tactical units in the military, and firefighters, EMTs, right? So there's a lot of people that fall under the umbrella of tactical athletes. And today what I'm gonna be discussing is the needs analysis that I've created for a SWAT officer. So as you go through this, there's gonna be some similarities between the majority of tactical athletes, but there's gonna be some specifics that you're gonna see that are based off the specific job. Okay. So perfect. So I'm gonna define the needs analysis for you guys because that's an interesting word, and maybe some of you guys haven't heard that before. So a needs analysis, what it is, is a comprehensive breakdown of the neuromuscular and skill characteristics of a sport or a profession. Additionally, the needs analysis covers the metabolic demands, injury analysis, and training considerations of the athlete. This is very similar to doing an eval for general pop for like a personal training client. It's just a little bit more individualized based off of a profession. And what a needs analysis does is it allows a strength and conditioning coach to look at a sport specifically and then be able to diagnose, like, okay, this is what my program should look like throughout the training year, because these are the neuromuscular and skill characteristics necessary for the job.

SPEAKER_02 10:50

Yeah, very set goals.

SPEAKER_00 10:51

Exactly. We're gonna look at the literature and find, okay, what are the highest, like what are the injuries associated with the job and how can we try to prevent that with the sound strength and conditioning program, right? So pretty popular in the strength and conditioning literature, right? Needs analysis, but I figured I would define it for people that didn't quite understand. Um, also, I wrote down here, so if anybody wants a copy of the needs analysis, um, we'll be discussing it today. Um, it's really just kind of the meat and the potatoes. But even if you just want to like take a look at what a a comprehensive analysis looks like, I'm happy to share that with you guys. Um, I can just send you the the Google Docs if you just send us a DM on Instagram. I think it's a super valuable tool for coaches or for people that are just interested to see what that looks like. Or if you're a tactical athlete yourself and you want to take a look at maybe how you should be training and what the job actually entails. Yeah. So just hit us up if that is something that you guys want. Um, so what's important to know with the needs analysis that I'm sharing with you and is that it would be useful to most tactical athletes. Outside of the specific skills of operational tactics, the foundational movement patterns, the neuromuscular and skill characteristics are very similar across the board amongst most tactical professions. This is a very well-rounded analysis for first responders. It doesn't need to it, it doesn't replace a comprehensive analysis for a specific profession, such as like a firefighter, but it's a great place to start if you can't find one or if you need help creating your own. You can pull information from this and add it to yours while disregarding some of the aspects of this one that we're going to discuss um that aren't specific to your profession. So before we dive in, Ty, have any questions?

SPEAKER_01 12:42

Not yet. I'm excited. I'm excited. I love you breaking that stuff down, right? Because like needs analysis looks so different. Cause like there's also like a business side. Do you know, like like people that are investing or like a business? Um, when somebody goes in and and tries to save the business, it's like a needs analysis. What does this business need to get to the goal of like success or you know, being able to pay employees or whatever? So it's like I like that you broke down what a needs analysis is, especially in this conversation here for tactical athletes.

SPEAKER_00 13:11

Before this is the very first thing that you would do before you train anybody is diving into a needs analysis of a sport, or if there isn't one, you have to kind of create one for yourself and dive into the literature, right?

SPEAKER_01 13:24

Um one quick side note before you start getting deep here. Um, with PT, it can be really hard. Um, because you're basically finding out their needs as you go, right? They could come in with whatever injury, whatever pain, whatever um movement deficit, whatever it might be, and then you're getting the background, and then you're getting the goals all in one session, and you're basically doing a needs analysis on the fly. You know what I mean? Because I can't make like a broken down needs analysis for every single patient because it's like I see a hip, then I see a knee, then I see a shoulder. And everyone has different professions, different jobs, and everything. So I'm excited to see what a really focused in needs analysis looks like for a specific profession.

SPEAKER_00 14:10

Yeah, so it really is gonna go over the underlying abilities of the sport, but a really good strength and conditioning coach is going to be able to individualize and specify based off the individual athlete. Yeah, for instance, like one injury from one person could be different from another just based off their biomechanics and how they move. So the literature might point to like pretty prevalent prevalent lower body injuries, but like I haven't had any lower body and lower body injuries as a tactile athlete, but that's in the literature, right? So everyone's just a little bit different. So you should be able to kind of adjust on the fly as a good practitioner. Yeah, so I like that you brought that up. Heck yeah. So ready? Yep. Yep. Okay, as you're stretching, you're like, yeah, here we go. This is good stuff. Okay. Um, so we're gonna go over the sport movement and the skill of the sport. So tactical athletes, they have to sprint, jump, change direction, agility, negotiating obstacles, mid-distance running, grappling, suspect control, climbing, odd object carries and drags, load carriage of equipment, firearm, firearm manipulation and engagement, positional shooting, ballistic and mechanical breaching, and CQB specific skills. So that is a mouthful, right? So I love this portion because it shows the broad spectrum of skills necessary to be a tactical athlete. And that's why program design for this profession can be pretty difficult because they have to be good at everything. So many things. We've talked on previous episodes about concurrent training and the interference effect of adding multiple characteristics within a training program. This is where those things become extremely important, where a tactical athlete has so many skills that they have to be very well versed in. So tactical athletes have to have there's repeated movements happening through concentric, eccentric, and isometric actions across all planes of movement. Dynamic tasks such as sprinting to cover, CQB movement and maneuvers, and mechanical breaching involve rapid stretch shortening cycle activity, including eccentric loading, amortization phase, and explosive concentric force production. The demands of isometric muscle actions are seen through maintenance of shooting positions, holding shields, supporting and manipulating weapons, and maintaining posture while wearing operational kit. Actions such as drags, carries, and load carriage of equipment. Um, these all blend slow, concentric, and eccentric contractions, highlighting the need for strength across all contraction types and velocities. You can see already how much depth there is. No, I love it.

SPEAKER_01 16:52

I love it, dude. It's giving me this is like this is like a tease getting into it because I'm like, dude, I'm so excited to see how you how you test and assess all this stuff. It's great.

SPEAKER_00 17:01

So we're gonna go kinesiological breakdown of the sport. So tactical operations demand movement across the sagittal, frontal, and transverse planes of movement. Coordinated movement is needed for fundamental movement patterns such as squatting, hinging, pushing, pulling, carrying, and rotation. All movements are done through a combination of concentric, eccentric, and isometric muscle action. And many actions are done under the external load of operational equipment and often within unstable or unpredictable environments. So diving into more of the professional specifics, law enforcement officers perform low-intensity and sedentary work interspersed with brief, unpredictable, high-intensity bouts of exercise lasting seconds to even minutes. Pursuits could last anywhere from 30 to 70 seconds, while an active shooter or a repeated effort scenario may last up to 20 minutes or longer. So the time frame of the let's say quotation sport has a very big range. When we we're going to get into the metabolic demands, but we're talking about, okay, so we have some pretty alactic activity with a quick pursuit and maybe a really quick firearm engagement, right? Or on the other side, we have a multi-story active shooter event going on where we're clearing staircases in multiple rooms, and this is a 20, 30-minute ordeal, right? So when we're talking about energy systems, this profession blends so many. But the problem is that normal day-to-day operations as a SWAT officer or even an LEO is very sedentary. It's a lot of sitting. So that's where setting that high standard of preparation comes into play. Cause it's like, dude, you have to have so many tools in this tool belt and be super well rounded. But sometimes the motivation is just not there because we're a lot of it's sedentary, right? And so you have to kind of just keep that, find a way to keep that edge because of all these demands that are that are specific to the job.

SPEAKER_01 19:02

Right. Because it can happen in an instant, right? Like you said, it's it could be sedentary all day until the maybe the last hour of work and something bad goes down.

SPEAKER_00 19:10

So and it's so unpredictable, and you just you kind of have to be on your toes, right? And again, just have to set a super high standard and you can't get complacent.

SPEAKER_02 19:20

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 19:20

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 19:21

That's and I mean, and it's scary to think about the people that are complacent, right? It's so hard. It it's scary because like you said, this is high level kind of stuff, right? This isn't just like, oh, going back to work and I operate a forklift or whatever, right? Yep. It's not like that, it's life and death situations, right? Whether it's them themselves as the tactical athlete or people that they're trying to protect or save or whatever. So yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 19:46

Uh and again, before we continue, you you saw a lot of low carriage in there and multiple planes of movement. There's a lot of similarities with each of these subtopics. But it again, it's just important to say that tactical athletes just need to be very well rounded, and it's just not enough to follow a cookie cutter strength and conditioning program with a sport or profession that demands so much. Um, and we will get into more of that as we get into the program design implementations. So, this next subtopic on my needs analysis, I think you're going to really enjoy is the injury analysis. So, common injuries typically include the lower extremities, specifically the knee, ankle, and lower leg. There's a huge risk of injury associated with load carriage applied through operational gear. So, load carriage is a term that is pretty prevalent in the literature in terms of tactical strength and conditioning and tactical athletes, and that just means like their PPE. So, gun belt, firearms for firefighters, it's all the gear that they're carrying into, you know, a structure fire or whatever. So, like that is a huge cause of the injury. Um, but a lot of these injuries can be addressed just through increasing strength, stability, and lean mass. We talked about that on our last episode of just having a sound strength and conditioning can reduce injuries up to like half just by being strong. Yep. Right. Um, upper extremities, um, they are very prone to sprains and strains, often as a result from physical altercations with non-compliant offenders. Injury frequency, though, and intensity, it really can't be avoided with the profession. It's kind of asinine to think that you're just gonna avoid it altogether, but it it really can be reduced with the addition of a strength training program.

SPEAKER_01 21:38

Yeah, absolutely. Um, I'll talk a little bit just about like the upper extremity stuff. That's what I've seen the most with firefighters and also police officers is upper extremity. So oftentimes like wrist and forearm injuries with whatever they're gripping, but then also firefighters when they have to like lift and pull something out of the truck or whatever it might be, like shoulder strains and whatnot, right? So Those injuries are very, very prevalent. And when somebody is stronger, right, and they can call in, I guess, all of these demands to their body and not have it be something they've never done before, or oh man, I just pulled this weird or whatever, if their body's prepared for it, aka strong, less likely to, you know, strain a rotator cuff, whatever, you know. So that's a that's a very accurate kind of overlook of injuries in your field, right? Of what I've seen.

SPEAKER_00 22:31

So yeah, from the doctor himself. Um, you said that, and what came to mind for me was mobility, which is really just strength through full ranges of motion, which I'm not trying to make fun, but you're not gonna get that again in the cookie cutter bodybuilding program. Absolutely. Or no offense, uh powerlifting or an Olympic lifting or a Hyrux prep. Yeah, there's elements, but you have to be very well-rounded.

SPEAKER_01 22:59

Absolutely, dude. I'll tell you right now, in terms of like powerlifting and bodybuilding, they're some of the least mobile people that I know because they have a ton of muscle mass, right? But oftentimes they're in these like stationary positions and then just contracting, relaxing a muscle, right? Over and over for repetitions. Yeah, it's not like they're working these full ranges of motion through strength in these awkward positions, like you said, very unstable conditions for tactical athletes. So it's like that's that wouldn't that wouldn't cut it.

SPEAKER_00 23:24

So and nothing against those. Those are different sports, different professions, right? Different needs analysis. Yep. So so diving into this a little bit further, we're gonna discuss the metabolic demands of the profession. So tactical operations require contributions from the ATP phosphocreatine system, the anaerobic energy system, and the aerobic energy system. Tactical athletes need the ability to perform alactic and anaerobic work through sprints, jumps, change of direction, agility, obstacle negotiation, mechanical breaching, and quick positional change. Additionally, athletes require the aerobic capacity to endure drawn-out scenarios and the ability to recover between repeated efforts under physiological and mental fatigue. This is something I'm excited to touch on in future episodes in terms of aerobic capacity. But what a lot of people don't understand about the aerobic energy system is that is what is responsible for replenishing energy after alactic bouts of movement. Yeah. So repeat sprintability, it's your aerobic system that's allowing you to recover in between sprints so you can repeat that effort again.

SPEAKER_01 24:37

So interesting.

SPEAKER_00 24:38

So it isn't necessarily I need to be marathon aerobically fit, but I have to have an aerobic base that allows me to recover enough between bouts of movement. Yeah, I remember you talking to me about that.

SPEAKER_01 24:48

Right. And that's something that I never thought of or that I didn't even know about, right? Because to me, it's like, well, yeah, if you want to be good at these alactic, you know, like sprint intervals, whatever, it's like you just train that, you just train that. But it makes sense that if you are more endurance-based and you have, like you said, a really good foundation for aerobic capacity, then yeah, you can recover quicker for those things and do it, I guess, yeah, more continuously.

SPEAKER_00 25:13

More anaerobic enzymes, more capillaries, more mitochondria. Like we don't need to get into it, but that's where the aerobic system becomes extremely important. There are gonna be scenarios where it's gonna be aerobic aerobically dominant, but for a tactical athlete, the majority of the scenarios you're gonna be doing, it's gonna be a huge combination of all energy systems, which is most things, right? I think sometimes we get so textbook savvy and we're like, nope, that's anaerobic or that's alactic, and the aerobic doesn't do anything, but literally they are all working at the same time altogether. It's just dials, not switches. One's working harder than the other within different time frames and different intensity levels, different volume, and things like that.

SPEAKER_01 25:56

No, I like it. So it's funny. I know the exact chart that you're that you're thinking of, right? Um, and I like the way you worded that. That was perfect, that it's dials, it's not a switch, it's not on off. It's not like all of a sudden you reach that 30-second mark and it clicks off, eight. Turned off, turned off. It's like, no, like you gasped that out and something else has to take over, but that doesn't mean that you didn't work that first part in that same energy system. So it's like, yeah, there's overlap between all of them.

SPEAKER_00 26:22

Yeah, that's great. I think of great like field sport athletes like soccer or lacrosse. The sport is very what I like to call alactic aerobic. A lot of people are like, oh, those are anaerobic athletes. So it's like, okay, well, they're athletes, they just they're utilizing all of their energy systems, but you gotta think a soccer player has to have such a good aerobic capacity to not just endure the entire length of the game, but to like sprint whatever you know, alactic things they have to do within the in the game, go steal a ball, sprint, change of direction agility. That's all a lactic energy system. A good aerobic base allows you to recover when you're jogging from here to here, so you can repeat that effort again. Yeah. And I just think of the same thing with that tactical, tactical athletes is for instance, you're doing like CQB, right, which is close quarter combat, or you're doing room clearing exercises. There's a lot of movement, there's a lot of quick actions that you're doing, but then now you're going slow again. Fast, slow, fast, slow. So you kind of have to have this dynamic energy control where you have the capacity to endure long scenarios, but again, repeat that effort. So it's just a well-balanced approach of all energy systems. We can't just be so focused on, you know, and I see it a lot as like nope, tactical athletes are anaerobic. They need to be lifting, lifting, lifting, lifting, lifting and do some assault bike sprinting and just training that system till they're blue in the face. But really, the foundation there for improving capacity in all other energy systems is a good aerobic base. So wild. I love it. So heck yeah. Um, another thing I wanted to bring up. Um, so I didn't make a mistake when I put change of direction and agility both on this list. So for what for the listener, and I know Tyler knows this, there's a huge difference between change of direction and agility. So change of direction is planned movement where agility is not. Agility, you're working off of a stimulus, not necessarily a drill. So if I tell Tyler to go run a pro agility, that is change of direction, not actual agility. But if Tyler's standing in front of me and he doesn't move until I point one direction or another, that is agility. Or if I'm in a shoot house scenario and I have to react off of an adversary's action, that's agility, not necessarily change of direction. So you have to train both. You have to train the train the you know cognitive side of you know react reaction, right? Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 28:49

So really quick, like to put this into perspective for me, right? If I'm putting cones out on my turf here in the clinic, and I tell an athlete to sprint to one cone and turn around and sprint back, right? That's planned. Yep. Right. That's not a reactionary type of thing. So it's like they know where to stop, they know where to turn, and then where to accelerate out of that, right? So that's change of direction. Agility is like responding to some external force that I yeah, exactly, that I might be giving them.

SPEAKER_00 29:17

So yeah. And it's they're different skills, they're different motor skills that have to be developed. You might have great change of direction ability, but agility is a separate skill that needs to be trained. Obviously, change of direction is going to improve your ability to, you know, it's gonna improve your impulse, right? You're gonna change direction faster, but there's a cognitive, you know, motor skill that you have to work on, which is reaction time within that agility. So just a quick side note there. That's great. I love it. So diving into more of the health-related fitness components of tactical athletes, not necessarily the metabolic demands, is maximal and submaximal strength, which are required for tasks such as casualty drags, rescue operations, climbing, grappling, load carriage, muscle, muscular power is required for jumping, acceleration, change of direction, agility, obstacle clearing, mechanical breaching, and quick positional change. Muscular endurance is required for repeated submaximal efforts such as maintaining shooting positions, performing equipment and casualty drags, and executing repetitive grappling moves. So occupational demands require the aerobic capacity to withstand long events again and recover from repeated short bouts. So, again, we're talking about an athlete that just can't focus on strength and power. There has to be an aerobic component. Like you have to find a well-balanced approach, a concurrent training system that allows you to capitalize and be well balanced in all of these things. So getting into the training needs. Oh, sorry. There we go. So officers require a flexible training schedule that accounts for day-to-day availability and occupational stress. A comprehensive training stimulus is needed to account for limited availability. But when more availability is present, training volume can then be distributed across additional training days. Adherence and stress management may be the biggest challenge when it comes to tactical athletes. So I bring this up, and this is in the needs analysis because we cannot just assume that if we write a program on paper that a tactical athlete is going to follow it to a T. There is a lot of stress that comes with being a first responder. Not necessarily my job, but we're talking LEOs, SWAT officers, firefighters. They are seeing things and like trying to overcome mental physiological stress and physical stress. And then you want me to make them do a high-intensity VO2 max aerobic training session the next day? Like it's not gonna happen. So we almost have to be more realistic as tactical strength coaches and teach these um professionals how to auto-regulate themselves to know when to push hard, to know when to not push hard. Yes, it says this on the program, but is that actually the right move to make? So as a strength coach, you you can't treat these people like you know, athletes that are peaking and tapering for a specific sport or a game or an event. That's not how it goes. Tactical athletes are in-season athletes year round. There is absolutely no off-season. Right. You can't peak these athletes. So learning how to distribute loads throughout the training week based off of their stress is going to be like extremely important for the tactical athlete. So diving into my last subtopic here, which is program design and implementation. I would really like to, on another episode, go into a lot more depth on the specifics of how I would program for tactical athletes. So this is really just going to be the meat and the potatoes of what it should look like. So tactical athletes, in my opinion, should have a full-body concurrent training approach that incorporates skill, alactic, anaerobic, and aerobic conditioning. Officers need to train across all energy systems and planes of movement. Foundational movement patterns should be trained, including squatting, pressing, pulling, hinging, rotating, and carrying. Unilateral variations can be used to provide movement diversity and task-specific skills. Training should emphasize occupational movement patterns and allow for individualization based on training age, physical capacity, and injury history. The manipulation of training variables include volume, intensity, frequency, exercise order, exercise selection, session duration, and work-to-rest ratios. Long-term success depends on an officer's ability to auto-regulate training based off their capacity to recover and adapt to multiple stressors. So, one thing to include in that that I didn't necessarily have written down was tactical athletes are all going to have different levels of fitness and training age.

SPEAKER_02 34:12

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 34:13

So training for the masses in terms of a tactical strength and conditioning coach can be pretty difficult because what may work for one person may not work for another.

SPEAKER_01 34:22

Ceiling and floor effect, right? Where it's like, okay, this might be really challenging for one person, but what if this other police officer or SWAT officer is super fit already, right? And yeah, that makes it really, really hard.

SPEAKER_00 34:34

Yeah. So it's almost more effective as a coach to teach these athletes how to auto-regulate themselves, which I don't think is a very hard thing to do for type A personality people that are usually drawn to this type of profession. Um, I think the issue becomes more with holding them back than pushing them too far, if that makes sense. Right. But yeah, in terms of like auto-regulating, there's so many different tools that you can use out there from wearable devices, right, to HRV, RPE, things like that.

SPEAKER_01 35:08

I was just about to ask about RPE. I was gonna try to save it towards the end. Okay. Um, but yeah, RPE sounds like it would be very beneficial in this kind of realm, right? Because it's like it's something that can be manipulated, but it's not like we need to be sitting at a really high RPE, like you said, like as if we're peaking them. Do you know what I mean? Like a training day or whatever. If you're having certain exercises in RPE six range, RPE seven range, it's like that's based off of how the person feels with that exercise that day, maybe the night before they had a really long night, late call, whatever it might have been. So, yeah, all of those things can be adjusted subjectively how that exercise felt.

SPEAKER_00 35:44

So yeah, absolutely. So very tricky um programming for a tactical athlete. It is something I'm obsessed with because it is it is so complex and so hard, and there's so many moving parts, and that's exciting to me because I am a tactical athlete and I can see you know how difficult it can be when you're having a long week at work, but then you try to have to fit all these different characteristics in. There is a way to do it. I just don't think it's done through following your general bodybuilding program off the internet, right? Right. So there are a few important things I wrote here that that we need to consider. So motor skills of this profession, um, so in terms of like the strength side, they are all tools to enhance operational performance. But no amount of time in the gym is going to make you a better tactical athlete without the addition of specific skill work that relates to the job. So, for example, firearm manipulation and proficiency and close quarter, close quarter combat and urban warfare tactics, handcuffing, suspect handling, things like that. You can't just get good at those because you're spending all this time in the gym. Those are separate motor skills that need to be trained in addition to the gym. So we need to remember that the gym is the tool to improve the ceiling for performance and all of these other skills, but it isn't the main thing. We got to remember to keep the main thing the main thing, and that is one, keeping these guys injury free, two, not over-training them and understanding that these guys are going to be cooked almost all the time. So finding ways to teach them to auto-regulate or forcing them to auto-regulate, right? And then remembering they also have to make room for improving other motor skills that aren't relative to the gym at all. Like going to the range and shooting. Just because you're great at power cleans doesn't mean you're gonna be a rock star on the square range, right?

SPEAKER_02 37:44

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 37:45

So love that we've talked about this multiple times. Yeah, right. The strength and being in the gym and working on just overall athleticism inside the gym, lifting weights, right? Increases your capacity or your ceiling to become a better athlete. On this in this realm, it's much more intense because of the stressors that they're dealing with day to day, right? For tactical athletes. But the same exact thing can be said for all of my athletes, right? Where it's like, yeah, we're putting the work in here and sometimes it's boring, sometimes it's mundane. But then when you go back to your skill work that you have already been doing in practice or whatever else, it's like that should aid it, right? Like it should, it should kind of, I don't know the best way to say it, like build it up a little bit is the way I like to say it, like from the bottom up. Because the skill work will will stay there, right? With all the drills that like you have to run and like all these guys in like the army that I talk to, and they always have to go and go to mountain home and do all these drills and you know, PT tests, whatever. Um, it's like, okay, those those skills are there, everything's there. It's like, but in your off time or whatever, it's like spend as much time as you can building that up so that your skills just accelerate even higher.

SPEAKER_00 38:59

Absolutely. The gym is important and it is a just a tool to improve performance in the in the main thing. We just can't lose sight of that. And I've been a huge victim to this in the past, where I thought that as long as I was fit, I'd be able to manage the perceptual skills of the profession. So this this train of thought is extremely inaccurate, right? The the cognitive, perceptual, and physical abilities of the job, they all need to be trained in order to be well-rounded. You can't just bias one or the other. The gym is just a portion of the whole. It just so happens that this part of the the pie is what I'm most passionate about, right? There are other aspects of the job that are just as, if not more important, than the gym. Um, many athletes, including myself, though, they're victims is of this mentality outside of the tactical profession, just like you had mentioned, where people fall in love with the gym, and I get it. I get it's it's so addicting, but don't lose sight of the main thing, right? Where we're now trying to chase PRs in the gym on a back squat, but when's the last time you went out and ran routes or kicked a soccer ball or did some free throws? You know what I mean? It's all just a bit, you know, they're all just pieces of the pie.

SPEAKER_01 40:15

With that piece of pie, really quick, and maybe this should be an another question we can wait for at the end, but um if you had to make a pie right now for gym and training, right? Um, strength training, whatever it might be, all of these skills, but then actual skill work, right? So firearms training, right? And like close quarter combat and stuff like that, and like clearing rooms, whatever, percentage-wise for a tactical athlete.

SPEAKER_00 40:43

Absolutely. I think 100% it's gonna be, it depends, is the answer. So everybody has like underlying abilities, like genetically, right? There's people that are really great shooters, and there's people that are really not good shooters, and they can they can enhance that the best they can within their ability, but some are just gonna be better than others. But the same thing can be said for the PT side of things, where you could have somebody that's extremely fit and then somebody that's not super fit. So the way I would look at it is it needs to be well balanced, but where somebody may be lacking is where you should spend your the majority of your time and attention. You should never neglect the gym, but I'll use myself as a perfect example. The gym, like I've got that shit covered in terms of like my performance on the range. I didn't grow up shooting guns. That's something that I have to be super consistent in for me to be really good at it. And as soon as I stop training that, like I atrophy quick. It's a it's a very much a use it or lose it skill. Where I work with some operators that are the most like it's amazing to watch them shoot. It's like an art, but they may not have the tools in the gym that I do. So maybe that extra day or two that they have to spend on some extra work should be spent in the gym. Where for myself, like, do I need to train five times a week, or would it be better if I went and spent some time at the square range and perfecting the skill that way?

SPEAKER_01 42:11

I like that.

SPEAKER_00 42:11

I don't think you can neglect one thing or the other. Like you shouldn't just 100% bias one or the other, but I think it just depends on where you are at professionally. Me at the beginning of this job when I went into law enforcement, I could have benefited by maybe dropping down to maintenance level of strength and conditioning work two, three times a week, and then spend the rest of my day on the square range getting better at my job. I like it. Right. So it 100% depends, but yeah, don't neglect like all around one or the other. Right. I mean, if you just even if you just split it up 50-50, like you'd be just fine. But one thing that I've been propo proposing, or like a method that I use right, is it's called habit stacking. And this is something I've been doing the last couple weeks. So I actually went out, we actually went out to the range at work the other day, and I shot like shit. Like, and I'm a performer, like I'm very competitive, and it really pissed me off. And so, but then I'm sitting back and I'm realizing like, holy cow, like I haven't spent a ton of time focusing on that skill for for a while. Like, yeah, we get range days here and there, but I was like, wow, like I've really kind of let that slide. And so for me, I was like, how can I add like the skill work to my gym sessions? So currently, what I'm doing now is it's really hard to get to the gym. Ammo's expensive, but what I can do is I can sit in my living room and dry fire. So I will spend, and it's been for a couple weeks, I will do 20 to 30 minutes of dry fire before I go to the gym, non negotiable. Like I'm already going to the gym, anyways. Why not just have it stack that skill that I want to work on before I go to the gym and just keep it all within like close together so I don't miss one or the other?

SPEAKER_02 43:56

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 43:56

So for me, it's like I need to work on that skill probably more than I need. Need to work on the gym. So if I go to the gym without dry firing first, like I know I'm effing up. Like I'm cutting myself short on what I'm capable of because I didn't take that time to work on the actual skill. That's awesome. So that's that's what I've been doing personally. It's not what anybody else needs to do, but that's kind of how I look at the profession is I'm trying to look at it as a whole and remember to keep the main thing the main thing, which is extremely hard for me because I'm a gym rat at heart and I would love to just spend all my time just working out. But the reality of this situation is for me to be a professional at my job and to not have bad days at the range and to be a basically a professional athlete, I can't just work out. That's just a part of it. Yeah. Right. And I've I've struggled with that because I I'm the gym guy, I'm the PT guy. I'm but going to school for it. Like that's my thing. But I also want to be a kick-ass operator as well. So no, I like it.

SPEAKER_01 44:51

The habit stacking, I've never heard it called that before. But I also I train my clients to use stuff like that. Yeah. Right. Where, okay, before they um this was one just a couple weeks ago where right after lunch they go and sit down, right? So I was like, okay, before you go back to work, like make it a priority, walk for 10 minutes and then back to work, right? So it's like before the thing, because they really enjoy their work. That's yeah, that's something I guess I should preface. It's it's not like they're dragging to be like, oh, I have to go back to work, blah, blah, blah. No, they love it. They love editing, they love all the stuff that they do. So it's like, let's just add that in before you go back to the editing and get sucked in, right? But in PT school, I did the same thing, which is really cool. Um, gym-wise, loved it, could spend every day there, every night there, hours on end, no problem. Studying, hated it, right? It's really hard, it sucks. But tests and exams and practicals are very, very important. So um, I would make sure that I get my studying done before I could ever leave for the gym. So I had to, you know, study whatever topic we learned that day or go over whatever presentations or practice hands-on skills before I went to the gym. So it led to very late gym nights, don't get me wrong. But at the same time, I was taking care of what was important right then, right? Absolutely of course, education, everything.

SPEAKER_00 46:07

So yeah, and there's there's a list of priorities, right? In terms of like, uh, we gotta put this before, you know, there's a list of things that are more important than the others. Not saying that school was more or less important than the gym, but I love that idea, right? Of just, I know I gotta do this, but where can I put it to make sure I ensure that this thing happens? Well, the one thing that I love doing is the gym. Well, what if I make sure I get this to before I go to the gym? Yeah, and probably make me bust my ass studying so I can get to the gym faster as well. Right? Yep. So I like I I didn't I didn't know it was called habit stacking.

SPEAKER_01 46:39

So I learned something new.

SPEAKER_00 46:41

So that's uh Atomic Habits by uh James Clear. So one of my favorite books. Okay. So if you're looking for a rec. Um, my last point here under things to consider is that tactical athletes are people outside of the profession. Um, we won't be diving into the specifics of tactical programming specifics today, but a program should leave room for athletes to bias physical activity that allows them to express themselves in other ways. They need to meet specific standards, but nothing says that a tactical athlete can't be well-rounded while still enjoying a marathon or a high rocks or a crossfit competition or even recreational activity that potentially feels like aerobic capacity buckets. We just have to keep the main thing, the main thing, and hold the standard of being a well-rounded tactical athlete without getting to one extreme or the other. This is something that I have to consistently remind myself because I am so obsessed with the performance side of things and exercise physiology and program design that sometimes I don't even allow myself to enjoy exercise for what it is because I'm like, no, I can't do that because I need to be a well-rounded tactical athlete. Like, nah, like I can't go do that modality of exercise because that's not that's not part of the needs analysis, right? And so I I think you can get to one extreme with prepping for a profession like this where we forget to enjoy your life and remember that you're an individual as well, and there's other buckets within your life that you have to fill. There, there's always gonna be people out there that are the David Goggins, like who's gonna carry the boats kind of attitude, and it's like 100% effort all the time. Like I don't know, it's like overachiever syndrome. I don't know what you want to call it. Right. And I'm sure you've you've been stuck in similar things with with powerlifting, where it's like you want to do everything you can to optimize a certain thing that you're also losing sight of other things that you also value, right? I work with a lot of guys that run marathons and prep for high rocks and do CrossFit. And the last thing I the last message I want to get across to people is that you can't go do those things. You got to keep the main thing. The main thing is a tactical athlete, in my opinion. You have to be well-rounded enough to be proficient at your job. But if there's other things you enjoy doing, you should be able to make room with that, for that within somebody's program so they can still enjoy their life and be themselves. Like a lot of I think strength coaches, it's it's very much like, no, you have to do this. Like, this is the only way where, for example, if I know I have to build a robot capacity for a tactical athlete, but he comes to me and he says he wants to run a marathon, well shit, that's easy. Your zone two work's just gonna be running. If you enjoy running, like that's not hard. There's gonna be some interference effect, and I would argue that might not be the best modality for the athlete, but again, he loves it. So, in terms of consistency and keeping this guy in shape and in the gym, I would rather have him running than forcing him to do a modality of exercise that he hates, and then I'm creating a bad relationship with exercise, and then he's saying, F you, I don't want you to be my strength coach, anyways. Your program sucks. So you have to kind of meet these athletes in the middle where it's like, okay, do you like doing high rocks? Hmm, that's pretty high-intense conditioning. Well, I can do some VO2 max training that implements exercises that are similar to high rocks, right? Um, and same thing with CrossFit, right? Like you can almost trick them into thinking that they're doing the thing that they love by finding a way to implement it into your training program. Yeah, so yeah, I don't know. That's my thoughts on that.

SPEAKER_01 50:24

I like it. I like it. Um something and I don't know why this popped into my head, but okay. So you're saying like these are professional athletes. Absolutely. Okay. Yeah. And I would absolutely agree. They don't get paid like professional athletes. No, they should. Absolutely. And I agree with that too, right? But I guess how can you or what would you do to motivate someone? Because there are a lot of cops and firefighters and everything like that, where this is their job, this is their career, this is the paycheck, right? So then at the end of a long workday, they're not thinking about how can I improve my performance at work? Do you know what I mean? It's more so, oh, I want to go to the gym with my buddy, I want to go work on bench press if they do go, right? I see that oftentimes. Yeah. So how would you kind of shift their mindset away from that bodybuilding type or oh, I just want to be strong and get a good bench press kind of thing to no, this is performance for your job because they don't they don't get paid like a professional athlete. So how can they kind of make that switch where it's like for you, it's it's easy because you're like, this is life-death situations. Like, I want to be prepared, I want to be able to do whatever is demanded of me, right? But some people, maybe it's been a long time since they've been in that situation or they've never been in a situation like that. I don't know. Yeah, right. But how can we kind of how can you do that and shift their mindset to no, you're a performance athlete, even though you're not being paid like this, you should treat it as if you are a professional athlete.

SPEAKER_00 51:57

Yeah, that's a really great question and one that like I've it frustrates me trying to answer it, to be honest, because like deep down the way I want to answer that question is kind of this is gonna sound bad, but it's kind of like tough shit. You signed up for the job, this is the profession, do it the same way if you were a professional football player and you went to your coach and you said, nah, dude, I'm a marathon order, I'm gonna go run marathons. That's a big issue, right? And so there's part of me that's like you, this is the job you signed up for, this is how you need to train. Like, there's that hard part of me, but there's also this part of me that there's other parts of my life that I also enjoy, like lifting with the boys or doing a bro split every once in a while just to flex in the mirror. So there definitely needs to be a balance. But in terms of changing their perspective, I would just ask them to try it out. Because one of the things that I see in terms of exercise when it comes to guys that I work with or other first responders that I that I know, really they're all chasing aesthetic gains, right? And then there's a mental health component to exercise where you get a little bit of release from all the other stresses in your life. Absolutely. Um, if you can kind of just slowly introduce them to other modalities of training, I think they might get the same results or if not better.

SPEAKER_02 53:19

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 53:20

So it's not like I'm asking anybody to be a marathon athlete or this crazy thing. And the way you would train a tactical athlete is so well-rounded that I think you could take this model that we're gonna talk about on another episode and apply that to most general population. And on the other side of that, you're gonna get a very well-rounded, jacked individual.

SPEAKER_02 53:40

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 53:40

Right. So it's it's really hard to convince somebody that is stuck in their own way, right? And that just has to be an individual like decision and value-based decision for themselves, based off of how they how well they want to prep and you know, be prepared for their job. Obviously, there's gonna be benefit regardless of what modality of exercise that you're doing. If you're a competitive powerlifter and also want to be a cop, like there's definitely gonna be benefit for that. Like, your strength is gonna be a huge asset to whatever team that you're on, no doubt. I'm just coming from a perspective of like, I just would love it if guys were well-rounded. But if you want to bias one thing or the other, but it keeps you in the gym and that's what makes you happy, and you're showing up for the job and you're performing, that's that's still awesome. I don't know if I would argue with somebody that was super passionate about you know, a certain sport within exercise, and then they weren't gonna change their mind. I would just find ways to maybe sprinkle in a couple things and just say, like, hey, like maybe just throw a couple, you know, max effort sprints throughout the week and maybe some agility drills and your warm-up, even maybe just sprinkling a couple things in just to kind of get them to have a little bit of of buy-in.

SPEAKER_01 54:52

Yeah, right. And that's huge. That's huge. Like you said, sprinkling things in is is an awesome place to start. I really like that because um, I mean, there's some strong cops, strong firefighters, right? But then you have to ask yourself, when is the last time they sprinted? Right? Yeah, like and I don't know, I don't know that answer, but I think that's huge.

SPEAKER_00 55:10

So I know from experience, like the hamstring pulls and the injuries associated with going from doing very little dynamic explosive movement to then having to do that causes a lot of injury. Um body's not ready for the task at hand. And I would be open to any conversation with anybody that wants to argue that there's a better approach to exercise than one that I'm creating. I don't think there's you can't really argue being well-rounded as a as a tactical athlete, but I I truly do understand like the the desire to be a bodybuilder or to do brow splits or to bench press, or sometimes you just need to be in the gym just for mental health purposes. Um, yeah, it's I feel like my answer is always changing on that because, like I said, there's one side of me that that just wants to say, like, this is what the research says, this is the needs analysis of the sport, and be super analytical and just say, Hey, you're a professional athlete. If you want to be the best at your job, this is the shit you need to do. But then I'm also human and I have other preferences too, outside of things listed on this um needs analysis that I I enjoy doing. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 56:20

So and and I guess the reason I brought that up is because and I brought up like pay, right? Because if they were getting paid millions of dollars, right, to protect and save families and and fight bad guys, whatever it might be, right? And protect very important things out at the site, right? If you're getting paid like a professional athlete, most guys would be like, Yep, I'm in the gym, I'm working on my performance, I gotta get dialed in, I'm getting stronger, working on all these different neuromuscular skills, right? But like I said, you know, that's just not the way our world and our country runs, you know. So it's just like at the end of the day, I can't imagine working a very taxing, stressful, and mentally draining job for a paycheck, right? That's how you're surviving, that's how you're providing for your family. And then on top of that, you have to throw in performance stuff to try to make yourself better at your work.

SPEAKER_02 57:09

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 57:09

It's it's you're not well compensated for it, right? Yeah. So I I don't know.

SPEAKER_00 57:13

I can't even imagine. It's so hard. It it takes a really internally motivated person, right? And yeah, the pay, the pay for what the job is isn't great, and getting buy-in is extremely difficult from my perspective and my lens. I just have to keep fighting the good fight, which is just putting out good information and people can use it for what it's worth. I can't force anybody to train a certain way, and I think that's the wrong way to go about it. I think it's better to just give people the tools and show them the best way to implement those into what they already like doing. But yeah, it's difficult to convince somebody that already knows that they're getting underpaid for the job that they're doing, they're overly stressed, they have family, they have kids, and then to add on top of it, be like, hey, you need to act like a professional. Of course, the arguments can be like, well, if I got paid like a professional, then I would I would commit to that level of proficiency. Um, but I do know guys, and I'm one of them that that takes my job extremely seriously, and I want to perform to the best of my ability. And stuff like this is really easy. And there are people like that. But absolutely.

SPEAKER_01 58:20

And yeah, it's especially in your realm, like that's that's a lot. There's a lot of dudes that are so passionate about their work. Like, I get that 100%. But then there's, you know, those other guys that they're just like, I am here for a paycheck. Like, I don't love this job. I'm just here because I'm this is how I provide for my family. So it's like, imagine trying to dump another cup of water into this bucket over here that's already consumed by oh, a low-paying job. I I don't like what I do. I already train all the time, I go shooting all the time. And then we're over here saying, get to the gym, perform like an athlete, you're a professional athlete. So then it's like just more and more filling that bucket.

SPEAKER_00 58:54

So that would feel that would feel like a lot. So it is. And I I I would argue too. I I think that is in every profession. Yeah. You think of the, for example, the example that you need to be providing for your clients and your athletes. What example for you to be getting extremely out of shape and not caring, and you just being like, Well, I'm just here for the paycheck and the accolades of being a DPT. Because you know that there are people out there like that that could give a shit about the results, and they're just there because they can call themselves a doctor and they get a decent paycheck at the end of the week. Yep. So I think that's in every profession, but I'll be honest, the people listening to this podcast and the people that are willing to take the advice that we're sharing are in that these that top percent, but very small percentage of people that actually give a shit. And we're in that group and that community, and that's really who we're talking to, to be quite honest. Um and we just have to keep fighting the good fight. Like I think everybody deals with it, every profession everywhere. There's people just trying to collect a paycheck, but that's where the difference between being a very purpose-driven individual and just being I don't know, another stat out there. I don't know.

SPEAKER_01 1:00:07

Dude, love that you roped me into this. Okay, because I know this is this whole topic was was yours and you're so passionate about it. And you're right, like in terms of tactical athletes, the stakes are much higher than anything I will ever see here in the clinic, right? But here's the thing I cannot stand when a PT or AT can't show exercises or a stretch or how something should look or how to back squat or whatever. And maybe I'm just very, very judgmental in that way, but I'm like, we're movement professionals. We need to be able to show and lead by example for our patients. But yeah, there's there's some people that just never cared about that. They're just like, yep, I'll do my joint mobilizations, I'll stretch the patient out for a little bit and then move on. And that's it. For me, it's like, no, if I'm gonna be rehabbing athletes, I need to know what is demanded of them, right? And like be able to not not match them at that level all the time, but like if we're doing a specific drill, I need to show them how that drill should look and how intense it should be. And anyway, so yeah, I could dive really deep into that in terms of my field and my profession. And if there's PTs and ATs out there that aren't exercising regularly, doesn't matter what form of exercise, I don't give a shit. That bothers me. That really, really bothers me. I do not care what kind of exercise you do, I don't care if you're strong or if you're just an endurance athlete, I don't care, right? But do something, right? Because it really does say say a lot about the way you treat your patients when they come in with like a sport injury. So anyway, yeah, that gets deep quick.

SPEAKER_00 1:01:43

No, for sure. And one thing that just came to my mind when we first started this episode on episode one, we talked about we each had a purpose statement that they were very similar in terms of we just wanted to reach somebody, it didn't matter if it was one person or a thousand. Um, and that's what I I love about what we're doing here is you can argue what we're saying, you can have different preferences, and that's totally okay. But we're just here to put out the information that we know with the experience that we have in hopes that we make some kind of a positive impact somewhere. Yeah. So again, take any of this information I have for for what it's worth. I can send you the needs analysis. There is like at least 30 references to everything that I have listed there, and it's evidence-based, and I'm very passionate about it, but it's also not the only way. So that's just my way and my preference. So take it or leave it, I guess.

SPEAKER_01 1:02:42

I love it. So I love it. Yeah. Um, everyone listening, Trevin is the guy to talk about this stuff with. I mean, I remember when he came in as a gym member, right? And of course, like we talked and we chatted and became closer as friends and everything. But man, he would ask me questions all the time. He's like, Well, what do you think about this? What do you think about this? And I'm just like, man, I I don't even know. I'm like, I haven't even thought of that before, right? Because I'm in my own realm of like PT. I'm still performance-based and everything like that. But with the type of research that you do and what you're applying it to, it's so, so different. So if anyone seriously has questions or, or like you said, I know it's your opinion and you think this is the best way, but I know that you are very well educated in this area. So shout out to Trevin because he's been killing it. So, and also making the drive here to do the podcast and everything like that. So big shout out.

SPEAKER_00 1:03:30

Yeah, Pocatello 11. Yeah, the things we do for pretty women, you know what I mean? You got it. Yeah, dude. Absolutely. That's a lot cool. Well, is there anything else? No, I don't think so. I I think if you have any questions, like I sure hope we get some tactical athletes on here listening and uh I'd love to talk shop with you, even if it's just giving advice, even even free advice. Like I am a full supporter of all first responders, you know. Um, find the good five doing job that very many people are scared of and wouldn't want to do, but you're out there doing it anyway. So big shout out to all tactical athletes, honestly.

SPEAKER_01 1:04:03

Yeah. So yep. And I and I try to make this a very open and welcoming place to not to shift it back to, but um, at the physio shop, right? I give discounts where I can for gym members who are first responders um or veterans. So um that's very important to me as well. So if anyone has any questions, just reach out through Shop Talk or personal Instagrams or anything like that. But otherwise we'll we'll sign off and leave it there. Oh, yeah. Cool, dude. All right, talk to everyone next Monday. Adios.