#14 - DARVO and How to Respond to Losers

Ever apologized for something you didn't do? You got DARVO'd by an unhealed goof ball. 

DARVO stands for Deny, Attack, Reverse Victim and Offender. 

aka: some people are so scared of taking accuntability they'd rather make you feel like the problem than say sorry. That's some victim mentality ish. 

⭐ You're not crazy. Here's a cheat sheet. ⭐

👉 And here's the Manipulation course 

I love you, I don't want you to feel unlvable my immature adults who can't self-regulate. You're safe with me always. I believe you, and I believe IN you! 

Love you, bye 

@christie.heals

Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:00

Oh hey little cutie pie. How you doing? How you healing? Holy cow, I had so many kids in my house today. But it was awesome. I love having kids over. I've always enjoyed when the neighborhood kids are over. Is it like a sticky hot mess? Yes, absolutely. But is it fun to watch my kids interact with other people's kids and like get to ask those kids questions? I really truly don't understand why adults don't like kids. I came from parents who my dad liked us. He was just heavy-handed. My mom didn't like kids. She didn't want to deal with it. I don't know why she had them. Actually, I do. She needed an extension of herself and a perfect Christmas card every year, but God forbid you ever bring that woman problems. That woman had the maternal instinct of a June bug. I swear to God. But that's okay. But like to come from a family where there was no maternal love, energy, anything like that. Like you did not bring that woman your problems. Definitely not your failures. Then how do we grow up to be incredible parents? Or is that why? It's like you don't necessarily need to have had a good coach to be a good coach, or to have had a good teacher to be a good teacher. Sometimes the template is like, okay, don't do that. That was wrong. That was incorrect. Oops, literally do anything better than whatever that was. But it's like it's fun to have kids over. Not all day, every day of summer. But what unfolded in my house today and what the kids got into, and like the dance parties they set up and the arcade they put together, the costumes they were running around the house in, that never would have flown when I was a kid. And I don't get why. And I don't need to. I'm just talking. Hi, how are you? I'm doing great. Thanks for asking. Today I want to talk to you about Darvo. Because once you understand this manipulation tactic, it's gonna change your life. You're gonna see it and hear it everywhere. And it's what used to keep me stuck explaining myself and getting stuck in circular arguments with people who would like constantly misunderstand me. No matter what I did, no matter how I tried to explain where I was coming from, they were still offended. If you've ever apologized for someone, sorry, to someone for something they did to you, you got Darvo'd. It's like once you learn what this is, you're gonna be like, oh my god. You're gonna hear it in movies, you're gonna hear it, like I said, in your office. You're gonna like, it's everywhere. It's how people, it's how most people handle conflict. So I didn't create this. Some smart psychologist who's still alive created it. I don't know her name. We'll call her Jessica. She's like 60. I was looking her up to see if she's still alive because I want her to come on the show and be like, ma'am, thank you for creating and naming something that I'm now obsessed with talking about. Anyway, let me shut up and tell you what it is. So this psychologist came up with a name of Darvo for it's like how immature people avoid accountability, essentially. It's it stands for deny, attack, and reverse victim offender. Darvo. And you don't have to remember, excuse me, gross, you don't have to remember the acronym, but these phrases that I'm about to tell you, and the order that this escalates to cause confusion, you're gonna get it. You don't need to recognize or hear, like remember the acronym in the moment. You're just gonna be like, oh my god, I'm confused. Things are escalating. Those were some of the phrases Christy said to look out for, and then you'll know you're being Darvo'd, okay? So this is not something people even do on purpose. This is just what emotionally underdeveloped people do to protect themselves because remember, it's way too scary for most people to ever look in the mirror and be like, oops, I did that bad thing, sorry, and take accountability. For most of us in this little group that we've created, this little club, the childhood trauma club, you know, we are talking and communicating with people to connect. All the other people are talking and connecting, sorry, and communicating to win. So those are two different approaches to conversations. Some people can't handle the moment of repair to be like, oh, I'm sorry I offended you. I'm sorry I did that shitty thing. You're right. And the in the moment I didn't think it was shitty, but after hearing you explain it and seeing that it upset you, you're right, it was shitty. Most people have too much of an ego and are too scared of that. It doesn't mean that they're stupid. Actually, these people tend to be pretty successful sometimes because they're like magicians at manipulating people, and this is a manipulation tactic. So if you're still listening, because I'm wandering in this episode, or maybe you're tracking, I don't know. I'm getting bit by mosquitoes. I have to move around. Ow! Hold on, come with me to my garage. Someone told me that the podcast feels like a voice memo with their best friend because they always forget what I'm talking about, and that makes me so happy. Can you guys, while we walk to my garage, before I tell you some of these key phrases, can you guys? This is a bad time to ask, but can you guys leave me a review? Can you please? You don't have to give me five stars, just leave me a review because I'm trying to get some big guests on. But I'm like, will you come on my podcast? And I've got like eight reviews, and they're like, no. Bart, you don't know, you don't know who I am, this is gonna be great, this is gonna be big. They're like, no, thanks. So leave me a review and be like, she constantly forgets what she's saying, and she leaves in the middle of the episode to go get bug spray. Ow. I have an open wound, it stings. Okay, I promise I'm gonna get to the content. If you research Darvo and this is the episode you found, I'm so sorry. This is a bad first impression. Hey, I'm Christy. Nice to meet you. I'm a chaos Muppet. Extraordinaire. Okay. Come with me. I've printed out my little cheat sheet that I'm gonna hyperlink to in the show notes because I'm so proud that I made this. Um okay, so shoot, I can't see. So Darvo. Darvo, let's talk about the D. So let's say you bring up um like an off-handed comment. You know, I've been guilty of this. I have a really dark sense of humor. I'm very quick-witted. Um, I've said things off the cuff uh that have hurt people's feelings, friends. Not often, but like, you know, when you just take something too far and you don't mean to, you don't even maybe realize you did. But let's say, like, you pull someone, you pull me aside, and you're like, Christy, I really don't like it when you like make fun of how short I am, which I would never do to you, but let's just say that's the example. Let's say someone made fun of how short you are, which is rude. And you're like, hey, I don't like that. Please don't bring up my height. First, the person would deny to buy themselves time, okay? Or to try and shoe you off. They'll say things like, What are you talking about? Or, I don't remember that, or I never said that. That never happened. You're imagining things. It's not that big of a deal. You're, you know, I would never, I would, I don't think that's what I said. I would never say something like that. You're taking it out of context, you're twisting my words. Oh, I didn't mean it that way. You know these phrases. When someone brushes you off, right? Right? So because you're talking to connect and you think they're misunderstanding you or you're believing what they say because you tell the truth and these people lie, they will escalate. If you're like, no, no, like you said, don't you remember? Then they realize you're on to them. And you're not wrong, but they're gonna move into attack. And they'll say things like, Oh, god, here we go again. Or, why are you always being so sensitive? It wasn't that, it's not that big of a deal, it was just a joke. Or, why are you talking to me this way? Or why do you always do this? Why do you always have to turn everything into such a big issue? Or, God, nothing's ever good enough for you, or you always blow everything out of proportion. Um, and they'll kind of like change their tone, they'll get that crazy look in their eye, their pupils dilate, it's like they turn into an NPC in this video game, and you're like, what the heck? This person is possessed. What's happening? And the or they'll say things, this is still attack. They'll be like, you know what? You're acting crazy, you're acting ridiculous. You you just like to play the victim. You always bring this stuff up because you everything's always a problem. Like, you're just always, you're always causing issues. Does any of that sound familiar? Obviously, it's gonna be said in a little bit more serious tone. I even have a hard time acting it out because it has never occurred to me, maybe like you, do I ever treat someone this way when I when I hurt their feelings? I'm like, I'm sorry, I did it. Most people don't. So I can imagine they're a little bit more stern. The attack phase is more like more like serious, and they're they will change their tone, and they'll give you that look and be like, you're acting ridiculous. They're basically attacking your character. You're talking about the issue still, but do you see what's happening? They're starting to turn it into not what they did is the problem, but that you are the problem, and that's by design. They're not smart enough to do this on purpose, it's just what their little immature EQP brain side of their brain does. And then let's say, like, no, seriously, I really don't like it. You did say that. Everybody was looking at me, because then you get upset because you still think they're misunderstanding you, you still think they don't remember or recall, and this is why you don't over-explain. Over-explaining is a form of begging, they don't want to understand you because they don't want to take accountability. But let's say that you were like, no, no, no, this did happen. They then they get like turbo mode. They switch to reverse victim offender. Suddenly they are the victim, and you have wronged them. And how dare you! And some key phrases here to look out for are okay, these maybe don't fit for the example of making some fun of someone for being short, but you've heard these before. Reverse victim and offender is things like, after everything I've done for you, are you serious? You're so ungrateful. If anyone should be hurt, it's me. Or you make you make my life hard all the time. What about all the times you've hurt my feelings? You owe me an apology for talking to me like this. My mom used to love to say this next one. Like, oh, my heart is broken. What happened to you? The way you treat me, I swear. It's like, what is happening? Um, or they'll say things like, you know what, you're just jealous. That's what all this is. You're just jealous of me. You've always treated me so badly, or they'll have some kind of performative fainting or sickness or crying or dizzy spell. If you've got a boomer mom, you know this is the oldest trick in the book. Not all boomers are bad, but most of them are not right in the head. Not all boomers are bad, but most of them are not well. If you have a parent or a sibling who suddenly will have like an asthma attack, or they suddenly have a seizure because you are like, hey, that was rude, I didn't like that. I've seen this happen. I have a really big Greek-Italian family, so there was all kinds of characters and all kinds of manipulation to study. It was fascinating. Having a family member fake a seizure or fake that they're sick was always like, oh my god. So what happens though? Do you see? It's like very disorienting because you're talking to connect and they're talking to win. They're very immature. They don't realize how close they are to having a close moment of repair with you where they could just listen and own it. Like it's not that hard. We all make mistakes, and then just be like, I won't do it again, and then change their behavior. That's what you have to look for. They have to listen, own it, say that they'll do better, and then they do it. But most people think that that's gonna cause sudden death. Sudden adult death syndrome, SADS. Forget SIDS, we got a SADS issue on our hands. It's a national emergency. No, it's not. You need to grow up. Not you, them. They need to grow up. They don't, but that's not your job to even explain what Darvo is to them. I can remember when I was learning this, I used to say to my mom, that's a Darvo response. I even like printed her out an e-book and was like, this is Darvo, this is how you talk to me, this is why I get ticked off. But she couldn't even, she couldn't comprehend. Her brain wouldn't let her go there because inside is a trapped little hurt little girl that she's never met. And it's why she behaves the way she does. And I have an ounce of empathy, but not too much, because that hurt little girl hurt my hurt inner child little girl my whole life. And the things that people will dodge accountability for, that stuff will make you sick, you guys. You can't have healthy relationships with no repair. Without repair, there's no relationship. Full stop. People need to own when they've wronged you, even if it wasn't intentional, because intent does not erase harm. And we're all gonna mess up. You and I are mess up all the time. It's part of being a human, it's part of having relationships, it's like the cost of admission is at times you're going to misunderstand each other. But manipulation is where you bringing your hurt feelings to someone causes an argument where you leave feeling confused, upset, exhausted, further betrayed. You're ruminating, which means you're in the shower washing your hair for 50 minutes because you're like replaying in your head, like, what the heck just happened? And you're like, maybe I should have said this, maybe I should have done that, maybe it was the wrong time. No, they're just an asshole. Okay. And really, it's not even that, it's that they have a victim mentality. And it's just too scary for them to ever say, Hey, I did that bad thing. And if they only knew how close they were to this bonding moment, repair is very important because it brings you closer. I'm sure you've experienced at some point someone's hurt your feelings, and hopefully, at some point in your life, someone's properly owned it, and you're like, oh, that's it. And they're like, Yeah, thanks for telling, thanks for telling me, I'm sorry. I can remember the first time I had some healthy relationships, I was like, What? Where's the big blow of fight? That's all. Because if Darvo's all you've ever known from childhood, you may not even know what healthy looks like. And all of our relationships will we tend to stay with what feels familiar. And we think we need to fight for our lives to be understood. Could I be doing any other heavy breathing? I promise I'm not in labor. I just I do have asthma, and it's summer in Austin, sorry. Um I forgot what I was saying. Anyway, I think you understand what Darvo is, and I want you to look for it. Like when you're watching your Netflix show, pay attention to the dramas. What are you talking about? That never happened. I didn't say that. That's not what I meant. Why are you attacking me? Why are you being so sensitive? That's the dead ringer. My family all the time was like, oh, you're so sensitive. And they would say really mean stuff. I grew up in a family that teased as a love language, and it was terrible for all of our confidence. Don't let your friends or your family tease you. That's no way to bond. That's not fun. Unless you're a bunch of stand-up comics who are already very disturbed people, because the only reason you would want to get up on stage and make jokes is if you had a very sad childhood. Like, don't let people push you around. So, that said, here are some Darville responses that you can use to protect yourself. And I will put this in the show notes so you can you can download this little cheat sheet I made. I'm basically reading off of it. I made this for you because I love you, and I don't want you to go through life spiraling like I was. We all gotta band together and share this information. So when someone's in the middle of accusing you and attacking your character, like, oh, you're just being you're so you're just being sensitive. Here's something you could say. Here's a bunch of things you could say. You could say, I know what happened to me. That's a fun one. Deadpan. No, I know what happened to me. Boom. The look on their face, too. They're like, that's when they'll go, you've changed. What happened to you? You used to be so great. Yeah, it used to be easier to manipulate, goofball. I'm on to you, mom. Other things you can say are, I'm not asking for your permission to believe my own memory. Boom! I know it sounds crazy to say, but like you're allowed to, you're here's the other thing, you're allowed to say stuff like that. Why are they allowed to skirt accountability? But you can't just be like, no, that's definitely what happened. I'm in my body, you're in yours. So this is my lived experience of you. Some other suggestions here are let's say it's really escalating. You can say, calling me names does not change what happened. You can say, my character is not the topic of this conversation.

unknown 19:46

Boom.

SPEAKER_00 19:48

You can say, I will not participate in a conversation where I'm being insulted. Beatch, but don't say that part because then you're then you're insulting them right back. You could say, I understand you're upset, but accountability is not an attack. I remember saying these on my mom, by the way, and it didn't work, but it gave me a life jacket to survive the conversation. It gave me like a resting point to hold my ground, if that makes sense. You could say, I'm not responsible for your emotional reaction to the consequences of your own actions. Put that on a flashcard, tape it on your wind, tape it on your your car dashboard and on your bathroom mirror so that it's at the ready, you got you got it like rehearsed. And then if things really get out of hand, you can set a boundary. If things are just, if you really got someone emotionally unintelligent and they're just like bah bah bah, just berating you, you need to set a boundary. And remember, those follow an if-then format. So, for example, if you continue to insult or scream or yell at me, then I will leave, or then I will hang up the phone, and then follow through. Because, friend, at the end of the day, this is your life, and the way that they are treating you is so inappropriate. So beyond, so beyond what is normal, and much, much less than what you deserve. Totally not okay. Full permission from me, if it means you have to lose all your friends over time. So basically, what happened is once I figured this out, I realized a lot of people in my life did this. And in my experience of getting the crap kicked out of me in life, trying to hold people accountable and just try and figure out who who had my back and who was a real friend at the time, turns out nobody was. So if you have to walk it alone for a second, if you realize all your relationships are a sham, don't be scared. You got me. You always got me. And you got a whole community of people on my page. Maybe we need to stand up. A real community you can log into. That's an idea for another day. But you're okay. It's worth it. Like if you want to shine in this life, if you at least want to be on the right track, you gotta light yourself on fire sometimes. Don't be scared. Don't be scared. Sometimes you have to clear away all the brush. Set it on fire so that the new brush can grow in the spring, the new plants. I'm no gardener. I think I'm pretty sure that's what they do though. Sometimes you have to strip everything away and it feels like your life's falling apart. But the more you choose yourself and let go of what's not serving you, let go of what's biting you, the sooner you can receive what's meant for you. The people. People need to get up from your table of life, who are rude and throw food and are terrible guests, so that new people can come in eventually and there's a seat for them. If you have to sit alone for a while, so did I. It's okay. But you are so divinely protected if you are being picked on. You don't have to choose to suffer. And I'm also not telling you to go no contact with your whole family tomorrow or all your friends. But for me, getting divorced was like the first step. I thought that was the hard part. But I did not come to this life to play small, and getting divorced was hard. But you gotta choose your hard. And if I already put my kids through divorce, there's no way in hell. I'm gonna have people in my life who make me doubt my value. No. Are you kidding me? No, no, no. And for you listening, let me straighten your crown. You deserve healthy relationships, period. And if you don't have any right now, believe that you're capable of finding them in the future. Truly. Also, walking it alone for a while is pretty sweet once you get used to it. It's where you learn to love yourself, it's where you learn you've got your own back. But I made this cheat sheet for you, and I want you to download it because it's worth it to understand how this works and stop wasting so much energy because you're a good person. You're not better than them. You have emotional intelligence, though. Okay? You have wasted so much energy trying to get people to understand you when they are basically self-selecting themselves out of your life, saying, I can't stand when you shine, I can't stand when you're right, I can't stand to lose, because I'm a loser, because I have a victim mentality. And you try to explain to them and you're like, no, but it's my high school best friend. I get it. But they're kind of a jerk. But it's my spouse, I know. You married your childhood trauma, so did I. Get divorced. I know it's not that simple. I know there's other factors. You figure it out, find a way to unapologetically choose yourself and get your life back on track. Because you can't lose when you do that. I promise you. So download this cheat sheet. I made it because I love you. Um, it's for free. Full freezies. I never pump you back you guys for money at all. But I did make a course. If you want to go deeper, I just launched the Unmask the Manipulator course. I'll put a link in there too for that. It's like seven quick lessons, and for like, they're 10 minutes long. You will learn from beginning to end how I learned every nook and cranny about manipulation, what it looks like, what it sounds like, how to find your values, to figure out who is even aligned with you and why certain things make you so angry. You learn your trauma response of fight, flight, fawn, or freeze, which explains why you're so exhausted or why you need to lay down, or why you rage back at them, or why you overwork and hide in your productivity. Huh? Sound familiar? We talk about all of that. I even give you scripts and templates to go to end relationships if you need to, because it sucks, but sometimes it's nice to know what to say, to not continue to get dragged in the mud. Relationships are not supposed to be this hard. And if you're listening and you're like, God, this is like everyone in my life, it's okay. There's nothing wrong with you. You shine bright like a diamond, friend. People are attracted to your energy because you overlove and overgive. So did I. We gotta make sure the people in your life are worthy of any of your time and attention. And you gotta believe that you're worthy of super solid relationships because you are. Um but Darvo will change your life. It will save your life. Once I learned Darvo, I mean, my mom got caught in a big lie, but I was like, I can't have a. She's not my mom. She's like a woman who gave birth to me. I don't hate her. I just can't have a relationship with her because she makes me feel hard to love, and I know that I'm not. And now that I have kids, I could never imagine. But I don't hate her, I just can't let her into my orbit because she hurts me. And when she hurts me, that makes me less of a good mom. Takes my energy away. And that's not fair to my kids. So being a cycle breaker, being the black sheep, remember, you're the goat. You are the greatest of all time of your family bloodline. And it can feel like you're dying sometimes to realize all these things and catch the manipulations and realize who's not good for you. But it's okay. You were picked for this because you are capable and you have a heart of gold, and your life is only beginning. You no matter how old or young you are, your life can look a whole hell of a lot different in six months to a year when you start to pick up on certain signals and act on the information and the data you're receiving from these interactions with the people who make you feel sick. Sick in the head, sick in the heart, sick literally. Nobody should be making you feel sick. Pay attention to that. I want you to be okay. So I'm gonna keep making you resources. You can take the course or not, don't worry. I got you though. You're gonna be okay. And I'm stalling, not walking past my air conditioner, because that's probably gonna be loud. Let's see if I can run past. Bear, come on! Okay, the cat's staying outside. Hold on, air conditioner. You probably couldn't even hear it. I have to go put my kids to bed. I think you're great, okay? I would have given anything to have a friend like you a lot earlier. Just be gentle with yourself. Drink some water. And unclench your jaw again, because I know you might be clinching by now. Okay? Oh, there's my other cat. Hi, DJ. DJ and Bear. You two better not Darvo each other, okay? Who stole the catnip? What do you mean? I never did that. You're acting crazy. You need serious cat therapy. Don't fall for darvo. You're too smart for that. Okay? Okay. I love you. Bye.