Episode 3: Mature Women, Neurodivergence, and the Menopause Journey

Episode 3: Mature Women, Neurodivergence, and the Menopause Journey

In this episode, Jannine is joined by Sharon Marshall for a frank and relatable conversation about ADHD in women, neurodivergence, perimenopause, menopause, late diagnosis, masking, and what happens when the strategies that held everything together suddenly stop working. They explore workplace adversity, shifting identity, hormones, self understanding, and the reality of being told you are “too much”. This is an episode for women who are questioning, recognising themselves later in life, or trying to make sense of why things have become harder.

ADHD in women, menopause, perimenopause, late diagnosis, masking, midlife ADHD, workplace adversity, neurodivergence

Transcript

Jannine Perryman 0:01

Welcome to ADHD Wise Podcast. I'm Janine Perryman, and this is a space for open conversations about ADHD and neurodiversity, bringing together lived experience, professional insights, and the questions that help us move forward. Wherever you are in your journey, you are welcome here. Hello and welcome to ADHD Wise Podcast. My name is Janine Perryman. Today I'm joined by the amazing Sharon Marshall, who is one of my team, one of my friends, one of my coaches, my technical author, and someone I go to for quite a lot of things. Hello, Sharon. Lovely to have you. Lovely to be here. Lovely intro. Yeah. Well, no, you're you're amazing, and I would be lost without you. So I'm I'm very glad that you're here. We wanted to talk about neurodiversity and ADHD in particular, and um being older and female, so sort of playmenopause, premenopause, um, life attitudes, being of a certain age where actually I think my priorities have changed. Have your priorities changed as you got older?

Sharon Marshall 1:09

Um, I think I remember less about what priorities are supposed to be. So it just comes in waves after a while.

Jannine Perryman 1:21

Fair enough. Fair enough. Okay, so where shall we start? Sharon's at the 952. And I think that, well, I mean, I think you might feel slightly differently to me on this, Sharon, but um, I actually sort of think that the for by and large, I think we can now ask people how old they are in a way that we couldn't when they were young, when older generations were our age. It was like you never ask a lady her age, that sort of stuff. I'm actually really proud of my age.

Sharon Marshall 1:49

I think I'm proud that I'm still here because not everyone is. And um, yeah, not all my joints are still here. I have four new ones, but they're alright. So I'm not completely here, but then people would have always said that about me.

Jannine Perryman 2:06

So okay, well, let's go with that, shall we? What would people have said about you when you were younger?

Sharon Marshall 2:13

I I I I'm not comfortable even trying to remember that, to be honest. Um, definitely weird, definitely um intense, too much, all of those things. Yeah. But they still say now. If somebody said to you now that you're too much, would you what would you say to them now? Well, I probably wouldn't say what I'm thinking because I'm now thinking, well, that's because you're boring or you're too little. So And maybe I always thought that. Um, but yeah, if people think I'm too much, then I I suppose I'm not their tribe.

Jannine Perryman 2:51

I think that's fair, isn't it? I think that whenever people I've also been told I'm too much throughout my life. And um historically I would have tried to shrink in that situation and mean quite so much. Whereas if it happened now, I would say go find less. I would absolutely say go find less, and probably quite unapologetically so, depending on who they were, because you know, there's no point in being confrontational with people who who are not part of your life, not part of your circle. Um, but ultimately, if it's somebody who is in your circle and somebody you do have to contend with on an ongoing basis, there is that boundary setting, an expectation setting. It's just like, no, I'm I'm good, thanks. Um because I think that my intendence, and I think your intendance too, um, is actually a real asset.

Sharon Marshall 3:40

I think it can be, but I what I've noticed is that if I hear, and this is like when I was employed, so I was around people that I who didn't necessarily know me. Um, and if I heard somebody describe someone else as too much and I knew they had ADHD, I would immediately shut down and think, well, I better not show them who I am because I'm gonna be too much and I don't want that judgment. You know, and uh so I did I did alter my behaviour and and sometimes go and have a cry in the loo, you know, it's that kind of thing. And so it's yet another rejection of sort of like keep yourself safe. Yeah, yeah. Because um that's when the mask goes on, and I think that happens a lot when you when you're working with people that you haven't chosen to work with.

Jannine Perryman 4:36

That's the problem with being employed, isn't it? Being sort of self-employed and at least having some say in in um enhancement time, which you get when someone's paying you to be somewhere and do something and mix with certain people. Yeah, yeah. Well, I mean, I don't necessarily want to labour this particular point. We've both got workplace adversity, shall I call it? Or shall I go one step further and call it what it is? Whatever trauma, we'll call it what it is. We both have workplace trauma. Um, and it's it's one of the things that working together, we it does come up in conversation and sort of, you know, on Monday this week there was something, wasn't there, that we just ended up talking about. And it's just so great that we can. Um, and I wish more people could actually talk about what happened to them and be like, that wasn't okay. Because I think a lot of things that happen in the workplace that are not okay.

Sharon Marshall 5:27

They do, but I also feel that they're not necessarily the fault of individuals because people just don't know. So um, and like when somebody says, Oh, they're too that talks about someone being too much, they don't know what that really means and what they they wouldn't choose to hurt.

Jannine Perryman 5:47

Okay, so it might not be malicious, yeah. But it doesn't mean that it doesn't hurt and doesn't do harm. That's right, yeah. I agree, I completely agree with that.

Sharon Marshall 5:55

So when it's not malicious, you kind of take it on yourself, don't you? Because you don't want to upset them because you know they didn't mean any harm, or most of them don't mean any harm. But in taking it on yourself, you're not actually educating anyone at all, which is why we need to have these conversations.

Jannine Perryman 6:14

It is why we need to have these conversations. So I'm glad that we have kind of like gone there because we will not be the only ones. And actually, it's really common for neurodivergent people um to have adversity in the workplace, to struggle to stay employed, to have have experienced um adversity for things that were beyond their control. That is really very, very, very common, right? And it's also really common um that uh women in their 50s onwards, so women significantly into the perimenopause journey, leave or are removed from their place of work. I think it's fine if it's choice. I don't think it's fine if it happens to them.

Sharon Marshall 6:53

Yeah, but then when you're in it, you don't necessarily no I mean obviously having ADHD, there's RSD comes into it. So you think that they're trying to get rid of you even when they're not, you know. So there's there's that that you need to take into account. And and a lot of people like myself didn't kind of realize they had ADHD until menopause. Yeah. And by then you're kind of too old to be you feel like you're too old to be employed anyway, because people aren't so interested um in women in their late 50s.

Jannine Perryman 7:27

Too old to be employed. Well, to maybe too old, you're not too old to be employed, but you might feel like you're too old to be employed. Yeah. And also you might also feel like you're too old to pursue uh an assessment.

Sharon Marshall 7:36

Um yeah, for me, I didn't really have the choice. It was like that, or um just take me away and put me in a dark room. It it happens um very quickly. Um when menopause hit, I my HRT had had had run out without me knowing. I was grieving at the time, my mum had had a major stroke, and so I was dealing with a lot and didn't realise how ill I was underneath all of that, because you kind of put it down to what's going on around you, and then it became clear that every cell in my body felt like it was hurting, and I thought I was dying. I went through that. What have I done? I've put on so much weight, I've obviously done something, and not I won't be able to get over this. And so the the um menopause diagnosis and the ADHD diagnosis happened at the same time. I don't remember much about my diagnosis because I was still in the menopause thing. But I did find out about it very recently because now I've come off of medication, I don't need to see my psychiatrist. So I asked for my report, which I don't know where that is. Why would I know that? And I I found out that um for for um inattentiveness I scored seven out of nine. But for hyperactivity, I got four marks. There is no one who could have scored higher than me for hyperactivity. I probably didn't need to even do the test. I could have just sat there for five minutes and and she could have diagnosed me based on that, I think. So it wasn't a surprise that I had ADHD, but I think it's after diagnosis that you then that all my strategies had fallen down. Yeah because until menopause, although it had been suggested to me, because child has ADHD and said you better get yourself sorted out. And I said, Well, no need, because I can manage this, that, and the other. And I had all these strategies and all my autistic traits, as we call them, my label boxes and my timers and all those things. But menopause happens and um strategies fall down.

Jannine Perryman 9:51

It's amazing the the the way it literally just crumbles, actually. I felt like I felt like I had lost everything, and for a little while felt like I was going right back to the beginning. Like it's not in the end, you're not going back to the beginning, but with neural pruning, when that's all kind of like happening and your your brain is rewiring itself to get rid of everything that it doesn't think you need, you're gonna lose some stuff that you do need. And for me, I felt like I felt like I'd lost my mind. And I think a lot of people do feel like they lose their mind in in this phase of life. Um and realizing where I was on the menopause journey um was was part of it because think I'd been in in denial about it for a little while. And then I was like, oh, okay, this is what it is. And I did because my mum died of ovarian cancer, I was quite resistant to HRT because if you've had breast cancer in your family or um ovarian cancer in your family, they they'd ask you to be careful along those lines. I think actually the advice and that and guidance on that has changed. And anyway, on reflection, my mum was in her 70s when that happened. So actually, I probably need to not I need to probably need to worry less. Um, but it got to the point where I didn't feel like I could function. I felt like I was such a scattered version of myself that at times I could pull together, which made me realise it was a largely hormonal thing. But I obviously had well, we're gonna we'll call it adversity going on in the background that related to my last marriage. Um just the sort of like the clearing up of that. So like you, I put my struggles down to my challenge, my life challenges, and then as those kind of like cleared up, because that's what happened, you know, problems that are situational do clear up. What I was left with was this confused state of still not being able to function. And it was yourself and Vicky, who works with us, who were like, please go and try HRT. So I tried HRT and um I have the Everall patches, and they're amazing.

Sharon Marshall 12:12

I couldn't keep one on.

Jannine Perryman 12:14

Oh, really? What do you use?

Sharon Marshall 12:17

I've got the gel.

Jannine Perryman 12:19

Okay. So the the the patches are really weird because it's like it's every three and a half days you're supposed to change a patch, which for somebody who couldn't deal with that. Really, really trick challenging because it's less like, well, if it's every three days or every four days, if it's the same time on those days, that's a lot easier. But every 3.5 days, that's virtually an impossible thing for me. So what I had to kind of do in my head in the end was I was just like, right, okay, so I've got one set of patches that I'm changing on a weekly basis, another set of patches that I'm changing on a weekly basis, and I actually had I actually have to keep two patches on because it's the I can't. I mean, that's how I'm coping. But they do stay, they do stay in place for me, and they don't they don't irritate me until about day five, and then they'll probably come off around day five. But that's how I actually cope with it, is like because I can't, I cannot do three and a half days once a week at the same time. Yeah, I can do it.

Sharon Marshall 13:14

I struggle with that to be honest.

Jannine Perryman 13:16

Pardon?

Sharon Marshall 13:17

I struggle with that. I can may maybe do every day, but it you know, I'm not saying that I remember every day, but the progesterone coil is uh is brilliant because you don't have to remember it at all. And for me, that was the game changer anyway. So I do use the gel, but if I miss it, it doesn't really make a lot of difference.

Jannine Perryman 13:36

Right, okay. Well, it for me, I think if I'm if I if I have forgotten if it my my rhythms have slipped um about two days later, I'm paying the price for that, and of course, by then it's too late and it's going to take another day for it to kind of like get get to the right balance off again. Um, so you know it's a real challenge. And the thing is, of course, that would be the case with any woman. Um but it isn't just about that, it is it is the exacerbation of the ADHD during that time because estrogen supports dopamine, and therefore you're gonna have doubling down of the deficit. And I know that is medical language, we don't like deficit, but in this context, it's incredibly that's that's what it is in this context, um, because your ability to cope is not there. So you are deficit and you are disordered. In this context, I wouldn't I don't like deficit generally speaking, but in this context, I would say that is exactly how I felt. I felt deficit, I felt disordered, I felt broken.

Sharon Marshall 14:38

Yeah, yeah. I everything did fall apart from me too. Um it within um three weeks of me having the the progesterone coil changed, which was overdue for change and I hadn't realized, I did feel a lot better physically because um my blood pressure went down to normal, my I wasn't breathless anymore, and I was breathless just going to the loo, you know, so all the time. That's why I really thought I'd damage something. Um so that was a real game changer, but but I did have I I did have resistance from the GPs to get both of those things. Um they recommended that um I remember her saying to me, Are you sure you want to be taking stimulants at your age, you know? And yeah, and I wasn't sure at the time. I didn't have the assessment because I thought I was gonna have um the medication. I I I waited a while before I did that. But I needed to know, it's the self-awareness was important to me. So I wanted to know what was going on, and then I could look at what to do about it. And even with the um, you know, it was a quite struggle to even get my referral, and I had private medical assurance insurance through work, but even getting the referrals, I was met with resistance um for the menopause thing as well, actually. And there was there were um delays on that. But I was offered antidepressants though.

Jannine Perryman 16:13

Oh well, of course, because because of course antidepressants are the answers to all of women's health issues, right?

Sharon Marshall 16:19

Yeah, yeah. And and I wasn't going to be taking those.

Jannine Perryman 16:24

No. No. I mean, I had um a short spell on them, and I think that at my lowest point when my life exploded, I actually think the antidepressants part of what got me through that worst bit. But that what what quickly happened within sort of within five months was that I was aware they were actually keeping me down. So they were kind of like stopping me from bottling, bottoming out, but actually it got to the point where they were preventing me from um. Can you hear that noise?

Sharon Marshall 16:55

Sounds like a bee.

Jannine Perryman 16:58

No, um, the builder has decided that now is the time to get landing. So I'm expecting him to get the hammer out next because you know, men, no, um not that's not. Um it's you know, um, yeah. Um so that's gonna be an interesting one. And um sorry to my my sound engineer who's gonna be going about that. Um yeah, anyway, where were we? Because that was a uh that was a distraction.

Sharon Marshall 17:20

I think we were we were on um antidepressants and the pros and cons.

Jannine Perryman 17:25

Yeah, because we do know that with well, I think that's the case. What I think I've just explained there would is is probably quite a typical thing. But actually, treatment-resistant depression, they do now realize, is probably under undiagnosed and therefore unsupported neurodiversity of some kind or other. It might be it might be related to autism, might be related to ADHD, might be related to dyslexia or any of the other conditions that that are part of the neurodevelopmental um and and learning and cognition stuff, it probably they now recognise that treatment-resistant depression is probably neurodivergence in undetected and unsupported neurodivergence in or so it's in origin, is probably what that is. And also that we're we're metabolising um serotonin re-uptake inhibitors differently to the rest of the population.

Sharon Marshall 18:18

Well, I didn't give it a go because I don't actually know anyone on them who is not depressed still, so I want I want evidence that these things work. And I do think I have heard of people using them, like you said, to um get over the worst of it and then maybe come off of it. And I can see you're still really distracted there, Jannine, by the noise.

Jannine Perryman 18:42

And yeah, you know, we could we could stop, but on the other hand this is life. This is life. This is life, and actually, we don't need things to be perfect, and if we're always aiming for perfect, that means we have to have expensive podcasting studios rather than operating from home, which I absolutely could not afford, uh a professional podcasting studio. So do you know what? Sometimes there's going to be a bit of background noise, and I think that's probably okay.

Sharon Marshall 19:11

I'm expecting you to be attacked by a giant bumblebee, to be honest. That's what it sounds like to me.

Jannine Perryman 19:18

It's just ironic, isn't it? Of the one , of the one day that um that I sit down to record something where it really, really matters. Um with the with the sand when he said he was gonna do some sanding, I thought he meant hand sanding, and I thought, no, he actually meant um palm sanding. Um, yeah, so the tangent. I'm trying not to be distracted by by by that thing. Anyway, going back to things, so um can we talk about meds a second, just because we've been talking about antidepressants and that they are a serotonin reaptake. Um I find it really interesting and and but not uncommon that you struggled to be taken seriously for assessment, but also for the for med. Um and yes, of course, we do recognise that any stimulant-based medication is going to potentially increase your heart rate. Um, therefore, there are there are reasons, like those are the reasons that um that they will test for those sort of things, and those are some of the risk factors associated with it. But was that an issue for you? Did you have an issue with your your heart rate?

Sharon Marshall 20:25

I did until I got um the coil change. Uh, because I didn't know if I did, but my blood pressure had gone up.

Jannine Perryman 20:34

Now that's so interesting, isn't it? So for both of us, our blood pressure went down HRT. We should have made it possible for us to have the ADHD medication, but might have been an alarm bell. Another thing that's really, really interesting is that there are some blood pressure medications that are also good for ADHD, such as wampocene. Try getting that from the NHS. Both ADHD and high blood pressure. But try getting it.

Sharon Marshall 21:00

Yeah. Well, well, I I ended up I wasn't on medication for blood pressure at the time because it wasn't that high, it was just high for me. And um, but it it just happened to come down the within weeks of me having that coil change. And maybe it was because my stress levels were different, because I had I had more of what I needed, but I was still pretty broken, to be honest, and felt like I'd been dragged through a hedge backwards, you know, um because it was such a traumatic experience, and then having to fight to get the help as well. Even when it was private, you know, I still had to fight and VPs who were trying to give me antidepressants. I'd never got depressed before in my life. I'd had I knew what depression felt like because I'd had severe um premenstrual things, which I now know is related to ADHD, but I didn't when I was in my teens and early 20s. So I was on progesterone then. As well. It was kind of a new thing. It's a bit experimental, but it seemed to take the edge off it for me at the time. So yeah, and and then um I've lost my track of train of thought there. Where was I?

Jannine Perryman 22:15

I don't know.

Sharon Marshall 22:18

I'm supposed to be through this. I'm supposed to be well over the hill now. Yeah, so where where was I? And I think we can cut this bit out, can't we?

Jannine Perryman 22:33

No, we won't cut this bit out. Probably not. This is the real lived experience. This is what it's actually like. And one thing I really want this podcast to be is real. I don't want it to be um staged and and prim. I want it to be authentic. So we're going with it. It's all good. Because I've no idea where where we were talking about no, what were we talking about? We're talking about you having to fight, we're talking about the

Sharon Marshall 22:57

fight for the medication, yeah. And feeling pretty broken. Yeah. Yeah, and and but that's I think there's there's a lot, self-awareness is huge. So without the assessment, you don't know what you're dealing with. And when you go for the assessment, there's always that feeling, and I get this from clients who are going to be assessed as well. What if I haven't got it? Yeah. What does that mean if I haven't got it? Yeah. They normally have it. Of course. But and and I don't think anybody who knew me would doubt that I had it. But there's that fear, if I haven't got it, am I really losing my mind? You're on my imposter. And dementia, early dementia, all of that goes through your mind, doesn't it? And knowing that some people do get diagnosed with that.

Jannine Perryman 23:46

Well, dementia is actually higher, um, higher prevalence for for ADHD people than it is the rest of the population as well.

Sharon Marshall 23:52

See, I'm not sure whether it's dementia because having seen what my dad went through, I think it can be diagnosed in that way. But is it just like if people came to see me, if I was if I was 20 years older and they saw how disorganised I can be when things fall apart, they'd just take you to the care home. Well, I think also then rather than give me the support I need.

Jannine Perryman 24:15

So I rarely have um a meltdown. Sometimes I'll have a bit more of a shutdown. I'm somebody who will kind of like under stress what might sort of like shut down. Yeah. Um, but occasionally I'll have a meltdown. Um and imagine doing that at our age. That would probably be read as as dementia.

Sharon Marshall 24:33

. The older you get, the more you are at risk of the wrong diagnosis.

Jannine Perryman 24:38

Yes. Um my um Andy's mum's in hospital at the moment, and she had um delirium from basically being sat with nothing, no stimulation. She can't see particularly well. Um, but she can hear like everywhere, probably has kind of like oh sort of extra hearing. So she's hearing everything, but only kind of like sections of it because it's it's interplay with with beeps over here and whatever over there. And she made up this whole world in her head because she had no access to the television, no access to radio, very infrequent visitors. Um, and so she was she developed delirium and they were trying to say it was um that it was dementia. And I was like, No, because when I've sat with her and I've said to her, Do you want me to tell you what I can see with my eyes? She says, Yes, please. And I tell her what's going on. She's like, Oh, my brain is making up all sorts of stories, isn't it? So we fought to get her home because when she's back in her own home and she's got access to Emmerdale and you know, East Enders and the news, and she follows the football and various other things, because she's an intelligent woman, she was absolutely fine. So I was absolutely right, it was not dementia, it was it was delirium brought on from being under-stimulated and basically sat there. She had a water infection, so the combination of things meant that that kind of kicked in. But the problem with delirium is that the more often that happens, it's it the the the more often it will happen. It's one of those things that like s leads into that. So it was like, no, we have to get a home. Um so yeah, I agree. The older you are, the more you are at risk of being mislabelled as having dementia. Um, and I think but it's particularly if you're female.

Sharon Marshall 26:19

Do you think so?

Jannine Perryman 26:20

I think so. I think particularly for females because of the uh of the well, the hysterical woman type sort of uh stereotypes. Um yeah, I do. I do think it's sort of like it happens more for women than it does for men. And you know, uh dementia, Alzheimer's, etc. If I could if I could have a magic wand and remove those, I I absolutely would, because to to to to be aware that you're losing your mind that way is not fair, is not kind, it's it's an incredibly cruel way, isn't it?

Sharon Marshall 26:52

Yes, but I think what I saw with my dad was that people were telling him he was losing his mind. And actually there wasn't progression and uh it was it was all related to anxiety. So if he wasn't if he was angry if he used to hold his breath rather than breathe, if he breathed, he could be back to normal. And as far as I'm aware, that's not a cure for dementia. But it was that stark, it was it was so obvious that he was having a but he was having like an internal panic attack. And I wanted him to get treatment for anxiety. I mean I didn't know about neurodivergence at the time, um, but uh he obviously was. No, he had he was weirder than me. A lot weird, no, I mean I'd say he definitely had ADHD symptoms, a lot, a lot and maybe more inattentive, but a lot of a lot of anxiety, and he also um he had a lot of autistic traits. And and my mum covered for him for most of his life.

Jannine Perryman 28:01

Okay. Well, I'm not going to share my parent experience here today because if I do, then we'll definitely overshoot the the target for this particular podcast. But I I will say that I have uh uh a similar account to that in in in many, many respects. And I think recognising our parents' neurodivergence is really quite helpful. Um and I and I don't necessarily know that it's always about diagnosis. I think sometimes it's about identification. Um sometimes you need a diagnosis because you need to be sure of sure. Um and sometimes it's okay to just explore it for yourself and to be able to say, no, I understand what the problem is, because my belief is that you can't solve a problem unless you know what it is. You can't solve a p problem unless you know that's what it is, you can't solve an ADHD or for other neurodivergence condition until you know what it is. I know that I was really I know that when I was 41 and finally diagnosed ADHD that it changed my life because I understood the problem and I got real with myself in a way that I couldn't before because didn't know what was going on.

Sharon Marshall 28:57

Well, I think it took a while to sink in what that actually had meant for my life. Because I was, as I said, when I got the diagnosis, I was in the throes of the menopause thing and that hadn't been fixed. So and I did some massive oversharing at work as well, which I don't think I ever recovered from. You know, I think I think once you've once you've said it, you can't take it back. And and when you share dark things, dark thoughts, um people get a bit worried around you, I think is the best way to describe that. Um I don't get worried when people share that with me, but then I've done some training on it. So maybe that's m maybe that's what it's about. You know, I've done quite a bit of training on that kind of stuff. So but yeah, I I think it was at the time when in work it was they I was out so good, it's good to talk, it's good to talk, it's good to share. There was all that message going on. I think I wasn't thinking straight, and I

Jannine Perryman 30:00

There's a price to sharing,

Sharon Marshall 30:02

yeah.

Jannine Perryman 30:03

And not everybody's a safe pair and a safe pair of hands. Not everybody's a safe person to know your to know your to what's going on with you. Um I make people earn the right to know me now.

Sharon Marshall 30:14

I don't think anybody used it against me deliberately, but it was I was shut down. Yeah. I was told what I could and couldn't say because it upset people. Yeah. And that kind of upset me. Yeah. But I understood. On the one hand, I understood, but I was out of control because I didn't have the control over myself.

Jannine Perryman 30:37

And I think that's the thing, because I I share quite a lot about my story, but I try to speak from the bruises and the scars, not from the open wounds. And I think when we are emotionally bleeding everywhere, that can be really, really problematic in the workplace and in life. Um, and what I wish people had is a safe space to go and emotionally bleed, where it's a one-way lean and that it's sort of safe and it's contained and we looked after people. That would be what we want from our healthcare system in terms of is that is that people could genuinely be listened to and helped to process so that they can get to the point of scars and bruises. And then you can talk to other people from the place of your scars from scars and bruises, then you're not inflicting, you're not passing on the pain, you're passing on the wisdom. Because we do a lot of passing on the wisdom, don't we? Yeah. Is very much um, you know, holding space for other people, being that one-way lean for people, but um, there is there is wisdom that we we we are we people tap into, right?

Sharon Marshall 31:36

I I've just another experience um occurred to me then. Um they had an employee assistance programme. So I called them thinking, oh, I'm gonna get some help from someone who will listen. And they told me that I was too bad for them, basically, and I needed to get more professional help.

Jannine Perryman 31:54

But did they help you to get you're too nuts? Um they didn't arrange it.

Sharon Marshall 31:59

No, I had to do that myself.

Jannine Perryman 32:00

Oh see, I also have a problem with the self-referrals sort of stuff. Um I've seen that go wrong too many times because people when they're at the lowest can't do self-referrals. No. Um and so

Sharon Marshall 32:12

Especially when the doctor won't do it.

Jannine Perryman 32:14

Yeah, . We're sort of like sliding into other territories here, and we could end up making another like 72 billion podcasts based on that particular topic alone. But going back to, going back to going back to this point, we know that a lot of ADHD symptoms are worse during this stage of of life for women. Um and that's why a lot of women get diagnosed later in life. Probably because they have been overperforming in order to keep up. So if you have done extra hours, gone the extra mile, worked harder to keep up, and you hit the perimenopause, um, and you you no longer can do that extra labour, extra at those extra hours, your capacity to do it has just diminished. That's why a lot of women get diagnosed later in life.

Sharon Marshall 33:09

Yeah, so it's not over-diagnosed, it was just undiagnosed for many years.

Speaker 33:13

And underdiagnosed in women. And I just I do feel it's a real sort of like women's issue that we have such a problem with the fact that there's been an increase in in ADHD diagnoses. Because I don't not taking anything away from from men because they absolutely deserved to be assessed. But so do we. So, you know, if if it doubled, I know it's more than doubled, but if it doubled, it would be about redressing um about equal numbers of of men and women getting assessed. Um, but it did more than doubled because there were so many women who hadn't been diagnosed or assessed. Um, because diagnosis and assessment are not the same thing. You know, it's a women's issue and a girls' issue that um that there are so many assessments taking place now. And they should carry on. And if they don't carry on, and when you look at the things they're trying to cut down on whether they're trying to change the parameters, they're trying to reduce it so women can't be assessed. And oh, we could definitely go off on one about that. I'm not going to because we're gonna have a good we've got a podcast coming on with with Becca, one of the other ones that we've we're recording this week, which is on gender differences um and ADHD. So I'll back off from that particular train of thought. Um, but just kind of like acknowledging that you know that's a women's issue, and of course, we're today talking about um perimenopause and menopause and the combination of ADHD and broader neurodivergence. Because if you are on the edge of coping and then you hit perimenopause,

Sharon Marshall 34:43

yeah, but they're going back going back to what you were just saying about gender difference, and that it I think there is some a point that needs to be made here that when women go through that, they might find a voice that they'd been in control of before. And if they were male, that outrage or whatever outspokenness is so frowned upon. If they were male, that might be acceptable. But because you're female, it's like you can't do that.

Jannine Perryman 35:16

I mean, my role, I mean, we do have to also recognise men also have their own stereotypes. So you get the sort of like you know, midlife crisis when they go and get themselves a a flash er car and everything else. Why should I be apologetic about going get why should we be embarrassing men for for that sort of stuff? Absolutely, we shouldn't be doing that either. But you know, there there are issues there as well. I wouldn't say I know so much about them because

Sharon Marshall 35:38

we can't talk about those issues.

Jannine Perryman 35:39 Sharon Marshall 35:40 Sharon Marshall 35:40

We can talk about them. We have to recognise we'd only be amplifying something that isn't ours because we can only be allies to that situation because that's not our lived experience. Our lived experience is neurodivergent women of a certain age. On that note, I have a question for you. If you could go back and tell your 30-year-old self something, a bit of advice. What would you what advice would you give your 30-year-old self? Get diagnosed. I started my personal development journey around about then, so it's been going a long time. If I'd had that knowledge then, yeah, I that journey would have been so much quicker.

Jannine Perryman 36:18

Okay, all right. So, what about your 40-year-old self? What advice would you give your 40-year-old self?

Sharon Marshall 36:23

If you haven't got diagnosed yet, get diagnosed.

Jannine Perryman 36:29

Okay. I'd a 50-year-old self, same.

Sharon Marshall 36:33

Um because without that, you're just you're you're feeling around in the dark. You just don't know. And you need I need that certainty. And from what I understand talking to other people, because we are because we doubt ourselves so much, we need to be validated. And we doubt ourselves because of the way the messages that we've got.

Jannine Perryman 36:55

Oh my gosh, yeah.

Sharon Marshall 36:56

Yeah. So that validation is everything. That oh, it's a piece of paper that actually tells me I'm not imagining it. Fantastic. After all these years of being told I'm imagining it, I'm dramatic, and so much.

Jannine Perryman 37:08

All of that stuff. Yeah. I think that is um a really, really good place to to stop. And I just want to say thank you so much, Sharon, because that I've already enjoyed recording this with you, and I hope that people really enjoy listening to it. Sharon is an amazing coach, particularly interested in um coaching people who are of a more mature age. So um if you if if you're listening to Sharon and you're thinking I like her vibe, um, you will find her on our website, um www.adhwise.uk. She does have her own business as well. We will put the link to that in the chat too. Um, but Sharon, thank you so much, and I hope that the listeners have enjoyed listening to this. Thanks very much.

Sharon Marshall 37:50

Thank you.

Jannine Perryman 37:51 Jannine Perryman 37:56

Thank you for listening to ADHD Wise Podcast. ADHD Wise exists to help bridge understanding and support for people exploring ADHD and broader than neurodiversity. If you would like to know more about us and our services, please visit www.adhwise.uk. Follow ADHDwiseuk on Facebook, Instagram, TikTok, and LinkedIn. Take care and we'll see you next time.