Robert Downey Jr. On Living With Intention, Discipline & What Happiness Really Means

What does it really look like to evolve into the best version of yourself? Robert Downey Jr. sits down with Chris Wharton for an honest conversation about discipline, self-awareness, taking control of one’s health, and what happiness truly means after living one of Hollywood’s most extraordinary lives.

In this episode, Robert Downey Jr. opens up about the daily rituals that keep him grounded, why he was the very first "patient zero" for Chris's wellness program, and what he learned from years of burning the candle at both ends. From preparing for Broadway to suiting up for Marvel, this is a masterclass in intentional living from a man who's seen it all. 

Connect with Robert Downey Jr. at https://www.instagram.com/robertdowneyjr 

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The WNDR Lab: https://www.thewndrlab.com/ 

Transcript

SPEAKER_02 0:00

Today I am joined by none other than Robert Downey Jr., who is one of the founding members here at The Wonder Lab. That's our research initiative on a mission to help everyone access 100 healthy years. Now, Robert is no doubt one of the most recognizable actors of our time, but beyond the films and global fame, he is someone who has spent years thinking deeply about transformation, about resilience, purpose, and what it actually means to build a meaningful life. In this conversation, we are exploring the habits, philosophies, and hard-earned lessons that have shaped Robert's evolution and keep him in superhero shape as he leans into his 60s and beyond. This is an honest conversation about what it really takes to feel and perform your best through every chapter of life. So without further ado, please enjoy my conversation with Robert Downey Jr.

SPEAKER_03 1:02

If and when the coffee comes, I want it to just be feel like it can come in. Okay. Yeah. Now if I sit forward, if I sit back again, readjust it to this position.

SPEAKER_01 1:12

Yeah, or like, yeah, yeah, you could.

SPEAKER_03 1:13

Thanks. I could.

SPEAKER_00 1:17

And we are rolling on all fronts. And here we go.

SPEAKER_02 1:20

You've been asking a lot of questions already. I got questions. Why? That's the perfect of the podcast. Okay, let's roll. Are we ready? Are we already? Oh, this is already live. Great.

SPEAKER_03 1:32

Robert Downey Jr. What's up, brother? Welcome. Chris Morton as I live and breathe.

SPEAKER_02 1:39

I like to call you patient zero.

SPEAKER_03 1:41

Yes. Yes. We're going to get to that one. In a vacuum, it sounds weird. It sounds like you got me like locked up in the cupboard here. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:51

And you and your first time out in some time.

SPEAKER_03 1:54

Hey, I'm glad you're here. I'm glad you're doing this. Thank you. Likewise. Thank you. I wanted to dress like you today. Okay. I wanted to dress like you today, with maybe a slightly higher budget, just to get you a little tiny bit gel.

SPEAKER_02 2:09

And then and then, you know. So I'm going to let the listeners in on a secret. And whether you like it or not. And that is, you said to me I get to keep that sweater that you're wearing if I if I ask a question.

SPEAKER_03 2:22

You know, when you're close with someone, you wear weird rules. Like you can arbitrarily decide, I hope you're enjoying those sneakers because they're your last wear. And it's that kind of this is not a bro code moment. There's way too much testosterosa wheeling around out there. We're just guys. I just like your sweater. That's it. Well, there it is. You know, you don't have to say it twice.

SPEAKER_02 2:47

Yeah. I like our sweater. Yeah. Better. The royal sweater. Hey, why don't we start with you explaining how we even know each other? Yes. Because it might be a bit random for people.

SPEAKER_03 3:00

Few people can relate to this, but I wound up being invited to this uh weekend symposium, and you're meeting a lot of people. Think of it as a mixer. I'm there and we wound up just crossing paths and we kind of chat and oh, martial arts check. Okay, dynamic guy check. Great fashion sense. That too. Also, you're significantly uh younger. So I always like checking in with what are folks who are a generation behind me doing. Not who are the cool kids now, but what do I really think? My dad's generation was always like, eh, y'all are soft. Or I'm sure his generation was like, you goddamn hippies. So I'm always kind of wondering what's going on with the uh the cool kids. Yeah, fine.

unknown 3:50

Okay.

SPEAKER_03 3:50

Anyway, we wound up staying in touch, which turned into me recognizing that I had a good regimen going on, but I was just open, open to a new experience and curious. And also now when we met looking at the back nine in my 50s and now being 60, I was thinking, I don't really understand this phase. I knew the 40 to 60 pretty well. That the 50 and afterwards, um, I didn't even think to be that big a deal. But this is now where you start realizing that you're on the back nine no matter what. And while I don't find that a daunting thing, I knew with what I knew of you and what you were putting together, and congrats, by the way.

SPEAKER_02 4:38

Thank you.

SPEAKER_03 4:39

Um, that I should buy in. And I don't know how it happened, but I volume. I can tell you how it happened.

SPEAKER_02 4:48

How did this happen? How did I become patient zero? That's your version of the story. Now I give them the truth of what happened. Yeah, that's always worth something. No, that is largely true. What actually happened was you we stayed in touch and we were, you know, um became kind of close. And one of the random phone calls I got from you one day was at FaceTime, and you just there was a statement more than a question. That is correct. You're like, I'm patient zero. When do we start? Truly, that is what happened. You gotta assert yourself in this life. Yeah, and good for you. I mean, you did become patient zero, certainly up there.

SPEAKER_03 5:27

What a journey it has been. Yeah, because as the facility and the business was being constructed, and I also want to talk about, you know, because this is a very rarefied experience I'm having, but all the tenets of it and everything that I think it's really leading toward, because I know you, and I know that your heart is in helping as many people as possible. And that's what to me you've demonstrated time and again. You're tireless with it. Um, but I knew I'd be in good hands, and also I was getting ready to do a Broadway play, and I didn't really know what that was going to be like, but I knew that it was really nerve-wracking, and I didn't know how to train specific for something like uh a marathon like that. Yeah, that was McNeil. McNeil, yeah. We did that at Lincoln Center, and you know, everybody talks a good game about oh, we have just the white, right regimen for you, but when it came to diet, looking at the supplements, what to take away. And when you had Sam on site with me, uh one of one of your uh close associates, and you had said, you know, we need to they need to be short, they need to give energy rather than be something you're recovering from for the rest of the day. I've never had a trainer say that to me in my life. Yeah. The reason I did this, and the reason it ties into Wonder Health and and the the work we've been doing, is that I wanted to, for a bunch of reasons, for my mental health, for my kind of spot check about really where am I at, I wanted to do something I hadn't done for a long time that was very difficult. Which is, I think, a little bit a part of the the credo around here, which is you're supposed to be able to bring big innovations, novelties, or systems checks. So the same way that I'll do all the cognitive training here, the real cognitive training for me in my day job is can you be off book with, you know, a hundred-page essentially monologue, which was in and of itself crazy. So where are you at mentally? Where's your heart? How's your head? Where are your stress levels? Uh, relocating to New York, where I'm from, in and of itself, evocative. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And looking back, I realized like, wow, man, you know, so much of it is what are the those little pockets that you decide to take care of yourself while you're going to try to do something? Because we're all going to be out there doing stuff. Yeah. And then it's just a matter of are you setting yourself up to win or not?

SPEAKER_02 8:05

Do you do you think that that has been something that you've had to make more intentional over time?

SPEAKER_03 8:10

Yes. In particular the last 20 years, it's been 70% of my focus. Largely because, you know, when you're young and my story is no uh mystery, I was wild and I was burning the candle at both ends all the time. And it seemed like I had unlimited uh capacity for uh resilience. But honestly, you always pay for it somewhere. You have to pay the pie piper. Correct. Um the pie-eyed piper in this instance, I just realized there's different kinds of resilience too. And over time, like it my recovery is better now than it's honestly ever been. But I also spend a lot of time focusing on what I can do to not come out of center. Part of that is because I'm happily married and want to remain so. Part of that is because the culture we're in is happy to blow up your life and your legacy by making one misstep. So I think all of us can relate to this feeling of everything is kind of a razor-thin margin for error.

SPEAKER_02 9:29

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 9:29

It's not true, but it seems that way because that's what's being reflected all the time. Whether it's true or not, I think the body is registering this time period we're in. Sure.

SPEAKER_02 9:41

So do you do you think then that has become the case because we are under the spot like so much more now? Even as a person of recognition, yeah. Uh, you know, when you're very recognizable, go back 30 years, not everyone had a video camera in their pocket.

SPEAKER_03 9:56

Yes. Everything's like everything else. I can tell you in the 90s, if you were gonna do something dumb, whether you were a celebrity or not, it was newsworthy, particularly if you did it in an heroic way. Yeah. In other words, whether it's, you know, making a misstep, you know, at a local bar or uh or or something more uh egregious. But I think about this lately too, like of course the access was different. I just think it's the information age. That's what I'm getting at.

SPEAKER_02 10:33

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 10:33

You know, it is the information age for better or worse. I think for better, but I also try to limit my exposure to the uh the vagaries of the time. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 10:46

Out of sight, out of mind. Yep. Hey, can I ask you a question on your approach to just optimizing performance in general? And I don't just mean performance in your day job, I mean just the performance of you, RDJ. Um, has that changed, you know, the past 20 years, you've been um, you know, extremely, I think this is fair to say self-disciplined, right? I think for as long as I've known you, you've been extremely disciplined with the diligence to like certainly to the prescription of the things we've given you, like your your adherence to everything is near on a hundred percent, right? And I think part of that is because of you know your um self-awareness and self-discipline. I also think we should take credit for part of that, which is not giving someone too much. I think when you try and overload someone with, you know, like hours of workouts or diet plans or you know, interventions, then it becomes something that sucks the fun out of life.

SPEAKER_03 11:45

Yes, that's the problem with the information age too, is Instagram can tell me that all my answers are right there, and then I'm just flooded. And like we were talking about earlier, it is difficult to separate the wheat from the chaff. What is sensational, even if it's purporting itself to be really practical and the like. So I always had discipline even when I was a teenager, but I also came from a really eccentric house where if I wasn't going to create discipline, it would not exist. And that's one extreme. I think some folks come from very disciplined households, uh households, and sometimes they rebel. Yeah. So, and then everyone else is somewhere, you know, in the middle or at these wild extremes. But I remember doing theater in my uh late teens in New York, and I would be the first person who arrived, and I was doing Richard Hittleman's 30-day yoga program and all that. I mean, this was also back when I was definitely balancing it with some unadvisable activities too. But I think part of me knew I had to create this, you know, everyone, everyone's different, dude. Every, every thumbprint, you know, completely uh original. And what works for some people just doesn't work for others. But I'll tell you what works for everybody is the innovation where you say that the sessions should be 35 minutes, should be really efficient, so that the drop-off is you can't justify it.

SPEAKER_02 13:20

Yeah, yeah, that's right.

SPEAKER_03 13:21

And I think that's the thing. Nowadays, I feel, which is why I'm really looking forward to all the potential and the drive toward making this a more accessible approach, yeah, is um it's really hard to blow off something that you realize it's not even a big mountain to climb. It's tough and it's challenging. Yeah. And the consistency is everything. But I remember, dude, I used to go and do these workouts that were just endless. And some part of me would always recoil. I'd always recoil in the permission I would give myself to eat indulgently or in some other way compensate for how I looking back now, unnecessarily grueling a situation I was trying to adapt to. Would you mean just like the length and volume and just too much property? I mean in the 80s, but but the funny thing is, even in the 80s, there was uh isometrics and pulling on towels and different stuff, and you know, people were looking at what Bruce Lee did, and people are looking at what Arnold did. And, you know, there was a gym in uh in uh LA in Bretton Wood called Pro Gym that um that was run by a bunch of you know big shots, and it was like the Hollywood gym. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And you'd have a bunch of far out, you know, some people would come in and just do something different to show that they and then I knew, you know, folks uh I wound up in the same gym as him, but like Sly Stallone had this gym that he just purpose built just for him, and every piece of machinery looked like something you wouldn't understand unless you were him. Yeah, yeah. But he was hardcore, you know. Um anyway, back to today, I feel like again, there's always been all these different modalities, but they were either for the uh elite few or they were for the people that we would call radicals, like the folks that I knew that were doing Ashtanga yoga and were vegetarian in the 70s and 80s, yeah, and would never drink any liquid while they were eating at the same time. But you know, they'd been raised in these kind of counterculture extremist families. Sure. And so, you know.

SPEAKER_02 15:37

I think one of the nice things about having so many different perspectives across so many of these verticals, these disciplines or domains of science, is we just get more clarity now on what is signal and what is noise, what is real and what isn't, because I think we can easily be led astray by a shiny object, all of us, right? Oh, yeah. And I think I at times have been like, I want that thing to be true, and therefore I will champion that. But then if you really look into the actual evidence, you're like, oh, that's not there's there's no real evidence. Right.

SPEAKER_03 16:12

Which is why, again, we were talking an hour ago about how what's pleasing to the eye and soul is that it looks like this generation coming up under you is starting to consider um analog as the novelty. So these cyclical natures of evolution, yeah, I see a lot of promise in it. And by the way, we did our part to turn them off to this information inundation.

SPEAKER_02 16:45

Well, for the for the audience, I think it's worth a little bit of context there. We were we were talking about how um our prediction is that this next generation will lean away from this, potentially lean away from this over-analysis, over-optimization, you know, overdoing it with the screen time, and then move back towards, you know, spending more time in nature, spending more time with human connection or with their friends, or out and outside. And like I think maybe that is wishful thinking. I'm not sure. It could do, it could be the exact opposite, but typically we see the pendulum swing through generations.

SPEAKER_03 17:21

I'll say case in point, right? Our family, we're based in Malibu. Our kids have kind of been raised on a farm uh ranch-ish away from Hollywood. We come to New York, and it can be so overwhelming, and you think maybe they just want to lock down and play Roblox or Fortnite and isolate, but then there's something about the daunting nature of New York to California kids. But uh tonight, my 14-year-old's going to uh uh Rangers, he's gonna go see some hockey, and my daughter's going to some like little bespoke concert in Washington Heights. So again, like we were wondered how traumatized this generation would have been by the pandemic. I think again, this return to live events to saying it's cooler to be there than to just watch it, you know. I love that, and I hope that that does prove to be true.

SPEAKER_02 18:18

Yeah, that'd be nice. Yeah, wouldn't it? Hey, can we can we switch gears? Please. Not that I'm not enjoying it. Hold on one second. Okay.

SPEAKER_03 18:26

I was promised coffee in five, four, three, two. Can we switch gears completely?

SPEAKER_02 18:39

Okay, well, so the the the listeners, if we do end up even cutting that, we'll just now see a coffee just yeah.

SPEAKER_03 18:47

My slightest thought gives birth to worlds.

SPEAKER_02 18:50

Dr. Doom himself.

SPEAKER_03 18:52

He's coming.

SPEAKER_02 18:53

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 18:54

By the way, again, just how the how the system has helped me too. I think it's been a great testament to forget the fact that you have, you know, the a list of of uh scientists all contributing to kind of having this uh this real, not just think tank, but this real actionable way of separating the wheat from the chaff. But going from project to project, one was a marathon, and then this last Marvel film was very much like a series of sprints and really taxing just physically because of the nature of these heavy uh costumes and stuff. And I really thought because I was seeing people start to drop like flies. I remember back in the past, I've been on Tarmax in uh in Atlanta where all the Avengers assembled and you just go like it's like 94 degrees and 88% humidity. People are gonna start passing out, yeah. And this is some a real fit bunch of folks. Anyway, I didn't want to be the uh first man down on uh doomsday, and uh I feel like that ability to withstand high pressure and uh exhausting action andor dramatic scenarios, and then just quickly be able to cool down. And you know, you wait a bunch, so I wanted to make sure that I wasn't always feeling like I had to rev up again.

SPEAKER_02 20:28

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 20:28

And the way we changed the program was really helpful.

SPEAKER_02 20:31

I've had the privilege of being on some of these sets in the past, and like I know how long these days go on for, but but more um, I think the more difficult element of that is you have to go from nothing to 100% in an instant. Like having, and I don't mean like physically necessarily, but you have to go from no action to action, yeah, consistently throughout the day.

SPEAKER_03 20:54

Yeah, I'm more used to that. I guess the real thing too is, and this goes back to creating a routine that's flexible enough to whether you're doing it late afternoon, late morning, or when I'm working, I'm up at five and doing it at six, which is you know, can be a little rough. But the whole thing is if I don't take care of myself before the day starts its merry March, then that's on me. I need to enter the day with as many of my needs having been met as possible. And um it's good, particularly if you really know your disposition type, like it's really good for me to be up before the sun. Now, I don't want to say that out loud because everyone likes to sleep in for a while, but I know that the norm is for me, I really do well if I'm up, hitting it hard, and then not coasting through the day, but I already feel, and by the way, part of this might be growing up, you know, going to school. Everyone has those feelings of like if they miss the school bus or. What it was like when it was drilled into us that there was a clock running on our education, on our extracurriculars, on our everything. And again, I just feel like, you know, if you hit it early when you can, often as you can. It's why uh I I did arrive four minutes before our projected start time, which was 10 minutes ahead of schedule. That is my own serotonin. That's my antidepressant.

SPEAKER_02 22:29

Did you do that just to be here earlier than me? No, you did a few minutes before that tell me that we would start exactly.

SPEAKER_03 22:37

I didn't say when you needed to be here. I told you the start time. You I'm I'm not in charge of of uh of your time management. Okay. I also like to be the first person to show up at work. I also like going into work on days that I'm not required to be there so I can get ahead of things that otherwise I'm trying to mix into a work day. We share that. I think.

SPEAKER_02 23:02

Yeah. Do you think that's born out of like when you are on a set or when you're doing a project and there's so many people around, there are so many relationships to manage and interactions to have. Those days when there's no one there or you're not required to be there, you can actually catch up on doing the thing.

SPEAKER_03 23:18

Yeah, I don't know. I mean, look, I'm not all that high functioning. What I am is disciplined enough to cover my insufficiencies. Um it could also be said that, you know, funnily enough, I never thought I would be in this position where people look at me as some figure of accomplishment or authority. And I know what that looks like. I know what it looked like to me. Whether you possess all of these principled behaviors or not, you act as if I am there. I am here earlier than I need to be to demonstrate that I have respect for everyone else's time. Even more than that is just, you know, engaging with the world. It's so easy to lose touch. And this has nothing to do with status or celebrity. So many of the humans that I run into who look like they're so preoccupied and um not confused, more just not oriented in the moment. That to me is the thing I see most on the rise. Can we speak about that for a minute?

SPEAKER_02 24:28

Because I think and I've mentioned this to you before. I think you're one of the most self-aware people that that I know and have taught me a lot about that. And you know, we've spoken about that in the past, and and I think one element of that is you are really good at staying present and being present with whoever you're with, whoever's in the room. How I really struggle with that still, and I struggle with the thing that you exactly just defined, like that that you know, being in the moment, um, like being with my thoughts, not getting distracted. Have you always been that way or has that been something that you've developed over time? And I think one particular sort of thought to or thread to pull on there is do you think that's born out of your art? Like, do you think that the burden of like carrying a complete character allows you to sort of step into that and then and then be in that moment? No objectivity on that.

SPEAKER_03 25:25

I really don't. But I know that that the weird trick for me is it also happens to be true, right? Like if I'm number one on the call sheet at work and there's all these younger or other accomplished actors, you kind of have to set the tone for um forget just professionalism. How about just like, are you a prick or not? How about just that? How about just like, oh my god, like who the fuck does he, she they think they are? That to me is the worst. And I also grew up experiencing that. We're just talking about status. Forget my fucking day job. I worked uh blocks from here uh as a busboy in the 80s. I saw everybody. I served sting peppermint tea. I saw Elvis Costello, I saw Chris Walken getting ready to go do uh, you know, uh play at the public across the street. I worked in nightclubs where Andy Warhol and David Bowie came in and I was behind a display dressed up like uh like a uh a space mutant putting Gumby dolls down a conveyor belt. Like I've had a crazy life. And what I've been exposed to is seeing a several generations of the it crowd come and go, and that's in business, in fashion, in in the creative arts. And then also I've just known a lot of really cool people who I feel were yeah, who were role models for me about just like wouldn't it be great if I was like Eric? And nobody will ever know who this dude was. But to me, just people who have uh uh principled behavior.

SPEAKER_02 27:13

How about who who's give me an example of someone like that that you think someone who you really looked up to as a person, not as a person?

SPEAKER_03 27:22

Yeah, yeah. I would start with me, I would start with my uncle Jim.

SPEAKER_02 27:25

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 27:25

My uncle Jim was a uh a bartender and a musician and a ne'er do well. He worked at uh in um Westport, Connecticut, and he was this kind of big chunky, tall, you know, dude, and he just had a great sense of humor. I have more of his mannerisms than my father's. I don't know why. And I think because he was also my dad's brother, it took the pressure off whatever projection or difficulties I had with him. Yeah. Um he just really got it when it came to like for him, if he had his acoustic guitar and like a place to crash and like some cool LPs, and he lived for music and culture and theater. But I could also relate because he was a guy who um stole a painting from his mom, basically his stepfather's place. They were on the Upper East Side, and he just went and clucked it. And I was like, wow, he's he's got a little larceny in him. I love it. But the problem was his stepdad was walking by this little gallery, he sold it and they put it in the window. Well, that looks familiar. He's someone who had great stories. You know what? That's my answer to your question. Yeah, who's someone who has great stories and a great understanding of life? Yeah, you've got some pretty good stories. Oh boy.

SPEAKER_02 28:56

Not all for for this kind of podcast.

SPEAKER_03 28:58

Well, that yeah, that'll be our um our dark web podcast.

SPEAKER_02 29:03

Hey, can I move on to something that I've wanted to ask you in the past, but I haven't, and that is, you know, we have been, and I say we now because it I'm in a really privileged position because of the the um sort of network of people that we've built here and and some incredible mentors and partners, you know, get to spend a lot of time with with, you know, objectively some of the most successful, revered, influential people in the world. And one thing that I've noticed that I think is a through line, I want to say all of them, but I could be wrong, is that they've all been through some kind of hardship or failure. And I think I'm curious as to whether you agree with this, that that is that is the way. And that to become, to get the thing that you really want in life, do you have to get the scars along the way to become the person you need to become to achieve that level of success? Or am I massively overthinking it and that is just not the case?

SPEAKER_03 30:09

Definitely not. I mean, failure to me is the norm, right? The difference to me is what I would say is seemingly insurmountable uh circumstances, right? And we know that. That's time immemorial, right? The uh, you know, the entrepreneur who, you know, came from nothing and and uh you know had to pull themselves up by the bootstraps. I mean, and it's a very American ideal. I would hope that the idea is you don't have to suffer as much to be happy and um and not overly concerned with sustaining your life. I would hope that future generations don't have to withstand that. But I do know that um it's wild, you know. Stopping short of whatever doesn't kill you makes you stronger. We gotta take a look at that statement. Sure, yeah, and kind of whittle it down to a more manageable set of situations.

SPEAKER_02 31:15

Yeah, yeah, yeah. I think I think not fearing failure and being able to roll the punches and you know, dust yourself off and keep going is is Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 31:25

Whether you fear it or not, putting yourself in circumstances where it's just going to occur. Yeah. You know?

SPEAKER_02 31:32

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 31:32

Uh and and I know that that's part of of wellness and health too, is like I suck at tennis. Yeah. I don't want to try to play it because I look douchey when I do. I don't look as coordinated as I truly am. I just don't have that skill set.

SPEAKER_01 31:48

You did beat me actually very recently. I'll give you that. I did. You beat me, yeah. Well, that's a fluke. I just had surgery on my shoulder.

SPEAKER_03 31:59

Oh, that's true. All right, so I beat a one-armed deal.

SPEAKER_01 32:01

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 32:02

Um it's really important to humble yourself intentionally. And by the way, if you can develop a skill set, even if you're not really interested in that skill set, I'll give you a funny one. I'm, you know, I I'm now sent this app where I'm supposed to do, because I'm not a kid anymore, this cognitive training twice a week. And you just look at how easy it is. Which ones are not, and and you do it, and the mind, as soon as it wanders, you're getting them wrong when you didn't need to.

SPEAKER_02 32:34

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 32:35

And you just get to know yourself about, oh, yeah, yeah. We all know the stuff that we're covering over about where we stray or where we're lazy or where we look to cut corners, or where we're only as communicative as we need to be, or where we want to be seen in a favorable light, but we harbor these thoughts that are not very kind about everyone except ourselves, which is some sort of weird self-preserving, you know, thing. Yeah. So, you know, I'll tell you why. If I'm self-aware at all, it's because I've paid such a high price for the times that I wasn't. Right. That this is not virtue. This is just tired of burning in purgatory.

SPEAKER_02 33:25

Yeah. And you know the alternative, right? I do. So it's a small price to pay. Moving on from that last question that I asked about you know, the price of success. I'm often curious about what that even means. And the reason I say that is I think everyone listening could probably think of a time where they said to themselves, I'll be happy when. You know, I'll be happy when I get that promotion, or I'll be happy when I'm in that relationship, or get that car or house, or you fill in the blank. From someone who at, you know, has truly achieved at the pinnacle of your profession, very difficult to argue against that, you know, with the accolades and the you know, um, incredible box office hits. There must have been one, if not more, points where you're like, I'll be happy when I get the Oscar, or I'll be happy when I get this. Is that the way that you work? And if so, were you?

SPEAKER_03 34:27

I'm more like I get called now to be the kind of like uh elusive happiness um backup comforter guy. Like I know someone's gonna go into a K-hole when they have some monstrous weekend. And so sometimes I'll just reach out and I go, You're gonna think this is great Monday, and on Thursday, when you don't understand why you're still you, yeah, then let's talk because that's when it gets interesting. Yeah. Um, and look, this is all outward stuff. You know, it's really important that all of us get wins. And I think it's also important to be completely unrealistic on occasion about what you think is possible. I think it's really important to have contempt for things that are out of our reach, but also feel like our potential is is truly unlimited. Yeah. Um but to me, there is no substitute for a clear conscience. And being able to put head to pillow at night with no wreckage, no damage, no apologies required. Yeah, and also even just feeling good enough in your own skin to be able to, you know, to fall asleep easily and warding off that most toxic of feelings, which is resentment. Yeah, particularly the justifiable resentment. That is really tricky. But it's not, it's like, I know you see what you see what's happening in you. Now, some of us, and this is a lot of type A folks are just like this, they need to get hopped up and pissed off just to get their juice going. So I think part of it too is making space for each other and saying, Oh, I understand this is just part of the way she operates, or I understand when he does this, you know, it's that code of loving tolerance. Yeah. And people have been very loving and very tolerant with and of me for a long time. Yeah. So I think happiness is honestly just finding the situations where you feel seen, understood, safe, and um, and and trying not to to step on on God's toes too much, you know? Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 36:40

And I think being for me, anyway, like being proud of yourself regardless of the outcome, like yeah, that that's what allows you to sleep real well at night, I think. You know, proud of your behavior, proud of the way you treated others.

SPEAKER_03 36:53

Well, by the way, honestly, and we've had this discussion, and I'm sure our Shinto priest friend uh would agree, the Lord of happiness himself, that um, you know, I've watched you go from someone who had the dream of something like this to the backing and the endorsement of uh of you know, Sujay and and and Jeff and and all the folks around you that have done this and know, you know, things are up and running and uh likely uh absorbing other entities and providing other services and possibilities and products. And to the layman, it would seem like, oh, right now, Chris should just be on Fuego. And the crazy thing is, no matter where you get, it I'm you're you're always kind of dog paddling in 30,000 fathoms of molasses. It's just the nature of uh one day at a time, you know?

SPEAKER_02 37:50

How do you do that though? Like, how do you in in practice, because it's so true. I mean, if you if you if you look back after some success or some progress in life, you're like, if you'd have told that person five years ago, look at where you're gonna be in five years. You're honestly like, how are you not ecstatic when you wake up in the morning?

SPEAKER_03 38:12

If the present is the point of power, then I find myself speaking often in dialogue with some version of myself in the past that was at a lost place or a stuck place or a broken or hurt place, and say, dude, I gotcha, it's gonna be okay. It stands to reason, then I shouldn't be fearful to also listen to that future. And it should all just be not foreboding stuff, not spooky, uh superstitious stuff, which we're all I'll speak for myself. We're all imbued with these odd, just kind of genetic predispositions to having uh afraid there's you know things we're not going to get or things that are going to be taken away. And lose what we have or not get what we want. And um I think just giving myself the freedom to be in dialogue with aspects of myself and then hook it up to the the universal in some way. We I think we both find that in uh in martial arts too. When you're just in relation to this moment where if you're not guarding your center, it's very obvious because you're gonna get clipped.

SPEAKER_02 39:26

Let's talk about the martial arts piece. This is something we both share a love for, um, and has both probably helped us in immeasurable ways throughout different stages of our lives. How do you think that has sort of helped on your journey of wellness and self-discipline? Apprenticeship.

SPEAKER_03 39:49

And I was in my late 30s when I really started taking it seriously, and I just uh gotten sober. So it was kind of like this thing. It was like it's not just about healing from alcoholism, it's also about I've got to do something really difficult that I know I'm not gonna be good at for a long time. And I think it's also just choosing someone, if you think you have a good chooser, choose someone that you're going to apprentice under and don't question uh them unless they turn out to be unsound or immoral. Don't question them. I mean, unlike me, who you know, I've I've had uh some moments and I know how to defend myself and I've looked really good on uh, you know, uh with my shirt off in a Sherlock movie or two, you know, you've actually gone out, you've gone next level and just gone into open competitions in Thailand, which to me is mortifying. That's like the difference between, you know, uh being on a trampoline and and jumping out of a perfectly good airplane. I was talking about this with uh with Dr. Mao Mao Xing Ni is a great Eastern uh practitioner and also Western doctor, and he has said, you know, this way of of the dragon having to find and ignite this part of yourself that really um activates all of our uh faculties and all showing, you know, we're we're formidable creatures. And I think that to be a peaceful warrior is a great thing to uh strive for. Yeah. I was was always much more of a weak, endomorphic kind of like I just remember just like getting beat up on on the streets after school in New York. I just remember just like I was quick enough to kind of get my hands up. It's a terrible, terrible feeling. But I also recognize that I'm not a natural anything. Some people are naturally, I may be a natural actor, whatever that is, and so what? Like, how big a deal is that? But when it really comes down to the whole picture of a person, like um it's really funny to recognize 10, 12, 15 years into studying a martial art that you're not really, you're not really well suited to become great at it, but it doesn't matter because if you love it and it feeds you and it's good for your head, then uh that's gonna do it. Then again, it's nice when some choreographer from some like you know John Wick series will come and say, Oh no, no, no, he really knows how to move and his blocks hurt and he he's he's got chi. Yeah. Then quietly you go home and you just yeah, yeah, and that's right. But again, that's just dumb butch guy stuff, you know.

SPEAKER_02 42:46

Hey, with the um we were pulling on a thread a minute ago, and I'm trying to recall where I wanted to go with it. So just think, just have a sip of coffee for a second.

SPEAKER_03 42:57

How is that? Well, it's less than half full, but I'm going to enjoy it. I'm just gonna cradle it.

SPEAKER_02 43:07

Let's talk about the next phase of Robert Downey Jr. You know, where do you see yourself in 10 years? And and I mean that from a, I don't want to sound cliche, but I mean what's gonna bring you joy in the next 10 years. Because you do a lot of different projects, like you're busier than ever, I would wager, or or certainly as busy.

SPEAKER_03 43:30

Yes, I'm nowhere near as high functioning as my missus. Um, you know, quiet as it's kept, I'm a little bit, I'm a bit of kind of a thoroughbred. I like to be paddocked. I like to uh I like to be, you know, taken out and trotted around. I am very jealous of my energy. I try to really um utilize it correctly. And I also know some people's red line is just lower. Right. Like, you know. It's really hard to get my heart rate up and I can get it back down easy, but that's been many, many years of just never wanting to red line in the middle of uh uh kung fu grading, or I never want to be that guy who's like gassed when you're doing multiple takes of a running shot or or whatever. I think um I think these next bunch of years are honestly about um relationships, staying involved in things that interest me. Everything that your whole operation is into, you know, I'm game as a train, I'm all in. I feel like a partner, I feel like I can be additive, but I'm also just a really good um demo model because uh again, you know, younger, longer. I don't I'm not interested in miracles, I'm interested in practicals. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And it just sucks when you have a bunch of days in a row where you don't feel um right. Yeah, yeah. You can't really explain it, but you know that it's something. And I think that that's why having a steering committee that is not just for the cultural elite, but is uh someone has painstakingly put together a group of folks that may be able to give you a different perspective and keep you from becoming an online diagnoser of self, especially in this day and age. Yeah, there's a lot of things I haven't tried that I'd really be into um directing. I'm also in that phase where I'm supposed to be giving back more than I'm taking, which um I'm cool with the idea of it, you know, and I'm starting to explore how that might work.

SPEAKER_02 45:51

Can we can we touch for a minute on the two of those things? One is that this community of scientists that we're both, you know, involved with. Yes. Um, you know, one of them in particular, Bob Waldinger, who runs the uh the um longest ever study on human happiness at Harvard. And I know that you had you've had a speaking, you had a sesh with Bob, and I speak to Bob a lot.

SPEAKER_03 46:16

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 46:17

Um, and you know, one of his core tenants and the very foundation of his science is that the thing that impacts our length and quality of life the most is relationships. That's it. And how close those close-knit relationships are, giving back that selfish selflessness, which is effectively like the reward you get from giving back.

SPEAKER_03 46:38

No, that service principle is crazy.

SPEAKER_02 46:40

Yeah, it's just but it hasn't there's real data, like proper, legitimate, long-term, like longitudinal data about the people who build, who invest in relationships are the ones that have the longest, happiest, healthiest lives.

SPEAKER_03 46:53

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 46:54

You do a lot of that, right? That you are a great friend, you know, and know that for certain. And you know, we we had a trip very recently, which I'm not gonna talk about because I'd get upset because you know, when I lost my friend, and you know, um, and I and I think that is probably one of countless times that you've shown up when you didn't have to for people. And I like I know that about you, and I know how much that meant to you as well as me. Um, and I just think there is so much that people can learn from people like you who are actually will like you have felt that, like you you put yourself in that moment. This empathy that you have, I don't see in many people.

SPEAKER_03 47:38

You're a stoic guy. You lost someone close to you, and thank God I was there to act like someone who knew what should be done instead, because I'm a stoic guy, and I think many of us are loath to really give ourselves uh permission to go through the the steps of uh making peace with anything. So, anyway, all I did, and you would have done the same for me, is accommodate a ritual and making some effort to go actually because this is the problem nowadays, everything is blowing fast so quick that if I don't plant a flag in a moment and go, oh, I actually have to emotionally like deal with this, it comes back and it kicks your ass, you know? Yeah. So that I think even uh even just those small things, and again, like, you know, it gets me out of my head. That's the service principle. But I want to say too that this thing of seeking community and seeking to be a worker amongst workers and seeking, you know, I'm not saying it's like we should all go to the bingo hall. Everyone is so different, but we all know those things that we're hesitating to participate in because time feels so short. And we do have to be selective because part of it is deselecting this person is an energy vampire. I've established that. Why do I keep acting like I'm so magnanimous that I can let them in a little bit? Sometimes you can. The power of blocking contacts is unparalleled. And then I give myself permission also to unblock them if I judge too harshly. Yeah. And if I'm talking about my boundaries or whose contacts I do and don't block on my phone, I got a bigger issue than who I am and am not talking to. I've externalized my self-care into a, you know, a Rolodex. That's an old phrase. That's back from my time. But again, I think it really is important, which is also why being in New York, being in urban environments, the older you get, if you can handle it, the more important it is to be somewhere where you can just get right outside and get the juice. And be amongst it. Be amongst it, you know, and again, exposure therapy, like how much is too much, you know? Like you, we all know how we're disposed, and we know which sibling or which kid is more like us and more like the mom. And you see these, these uh predispositions to, oh, I'm kind of a X-type. Sure. And I'm into it, but I want to be able to withdraw. It's the people that you grew up knowing who always drove their own car to the deal. They always, they, yeah, I understand, I love you, I'm all for the fellowship, but I need my out. And some people are just more built that way. I'm more like clown car, I'm into it, but in my in my my older age, I'm like, oh, that's kind of smart. Like, you know, I'm responsible for my uh ability to to cut or not. All I'm saying too is sometimes, you know, and you this doesn't apply to just being older, you know, it's so easy to isolate yourself to the point where um you don't even activate the resources that are available to you right there because so much of life is happening in here.

SPEAKER_02 51:08

And we know how dangerous that that isolation is, like the loneliness and isolation. Is that is that a um I it feels like a bit of a juxtaposition for someone who's in a very public figure, you know. Typically we say get more, spend more time with people, spend more time in community. Yeah. Is that a challenge? I mean, I can only imagine B.

SPEAKER_03 51:29

I'm always aghast when I hear anyone who has any notoriety at all talk about why they can't do A, B, C, or D anymore. I go, are you bragging about your victimhood of like being favored by you know luck and fortune and talent? Fucking shut up. Um draw your eyes. Yeah. That said, I get it though. Like it, you know, community, friends, and I also think it's the main thing is openness to new experience. That's the main thing, you know, and the whole you know, ADD revolution, which I think was really well understood, and that we realized we'd been misunderstanding, it's just a low tolerance for boredom. That's all of us now. Like it's good to be ADD because possibly you're going to wind up becoming more open to new experiences because you kind of have to. And I think that's gonna go a long way with these next generations, you know? Yeah, we need to be able to look at them and say, oh my god, they're kind of really impressing us. They're kind of like taking over and getting back to a less um it's really your generation and the ones coming up. I kind of feel like uh Robert Duvall at the end of Colors, long story. You know, I feel like I've been around for a long time and I see things, which actually gives me more faith because I feel like I've seen 50-year cycles of stuff. You go, oh, okay, it's like 50, 80 years, things kind of, you know.

SPEAKER_02 53:11

You know, switcheroo. Yerps. So now one thing I think that's like filling me with optimism on that note is I know that generation specifically, they're getting or people in their 20s and 30s now, even younger, even the kids, like they're getting so much more agency to know those things about themselves, right? Because we're we are able to do these tests and we have these, you know, this data and wearables, and even the genetic test that we did, and like this gives you so much more context about who you are as a person and then how you should be approaching your journey or your wellness, and then becoming more more self-aware and understanding more about you that these certain things are great for your biology and these other things aren't. And I think we've spoken about this being you know the true north for what we're building here is how do we give everyone access to those things?

SPEAKER_03 54:03

That's it, dude. And that's where I think you and I both get excited, the same way we would for uh for a sparring session. Except this one is about okay, that's where you get to really individuate from usually what an enterprise like this wants to do.

SPEAKER_01 54:18

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 54:19

Um, so I'm really looking forward to how I can be useful in that. Like I said, like, you know, I'm a good B2B guy. You've already got more than enough great people on board, but I feel like I add a little innovation here and there, a couple things we were talking about at lunch. And um ultimately, what conversation is worth squat unless I walk away with it with a little action plan, even if it's just, oh, I'm gonna check that out. You know, one, I'm gonna check that out can uh can make a huge difference in a bunch of people's lives.

SPEAKER_02 54:55

Yeah. And and and it is already, and like we're gonna see that filter down into something that is just wildly accessible. That's the the ambition. And I think that's gonna happen sooner rather than later.

SPEAKER_03 55:07

Look, in this living room thing you got going, I feel like I gotta come back on the annual or biannual just for a spot check, you know. Also, maybe you know, I can come in, I I can just check your pulse too. People want to know how's the host doing? Who's asking him the hard questions? No, you're uh you are a great example of what's possible if you really have the grit to stick with something. Because, dude, I've seen you on the grind for a thousand days and the the highs and lows of building a business and all that, but I also know what really gets you going is you love information, you love connecting, you love sharing information, and I know that your passion is to be able to um really make it available, you know. Like we get exclusive, I get it, but we also know that that's not really where that's not where the the super juice is, you know.

SPEAKER_02 56:15

I love that. I thank you for a start. And look, I think you're just a product of the people you spend your time with. So you were really giving yourself a compliment as well there. Oh, isn't that funny how that works? Um, and you know what's been great as well is like everyone that we have involved in this as a project have that share that same true north, that yeah, that vision. The scientists, our investors, our partners in general. I think that's been the really incredibly exciting thing about it and restores my faith in people in general.

SPEAKER_03 56:46

Even just, you know, when I came in earlier, me and the missus came here, we trained, we turned around, I saw your previous guests. And you just want to kind of be around where um innovation is occurring.

SPEAKER_02 57:03

Innovation, collaboration, and that that I think they those scientists in my mind are like they're the academic A-listers.

SPEAKER_03 57:11

100%. It's always felt so literally alien to me because I'm not a formally educated guy. So it doesn't matter. No, no, no matter what circles you wind up running in, if if you feel kind of like I I I can't relate to how someone has that level of understanding of a subject, you know. But it makes it you just kind of feel a little bit like you're backstage at the world here, and uh there's no pressure to perform, but just kind of like be part of the world.

SPEAKER_02 57:44

And you're forced to do a podcast.

SPEAKER_03 57:47

I wake up like this.

SPEAKER_02 57:49

You got one question to finish. What's the best bit of advice you've no, you've got two questions. Okay. 30 seconds each, so best bit of advice you've ever been given.

SPEAKER_03 58:01

Know what your action is. What am I doing? Hopefully you already know who you are. But in the moment, oftentimes I'll just be like, dude, what am I doing? And it should be a very general thing I'm moving through the day, or sometimes it's not like I'm I'm trying to no, no, I'm not trying to do anything. What are you doing? Oh, I'm uh I'm uh I'm I'm showing up for my kids. Okay. What are you doing? I'm working for a living. And so I try to get into it, get in a friendly dialogue with yourself and know what you're doing.

SPEAKER_02 58:36

Okay, last question if you could give yourself advice to the some to you 20 years ago, something you wish you knew 20 years ago, what would it be?

SPEAKER_03 58:50

Brother, you have no idea. No idea.

SPEAKER_02 58:55

It's Robert Downey Jr., patient zero. You saw it. Hey man, it's a it's a privilege, honestly.

SPEAKER_03 59:04

Dude, and like you, you guys have revolutionized my whole program, and the uh general public will be uh uh the benefactor. Hell yeah. Yep. Thank you, sir. Thank you, thank you. Give me some skin.