EP 21 | Why Are Americans Losing Pride in Their Country?

This week, Erik and Jeff ask why fewer Americans feel comfortable saying they’re proud of their country.

Has patriotism become political? Did younger generations get America’s blooper reel instead of the highlight reel? And can criticizing the country actually be an act of patriotism?

They get into the flag, the Constitution, the Founding Fathers, 9/11, student loans, the cost of living, party-over-country politics, and whether America can still give people something to believe in.

But before any of that, Erik insults a nurse at the VA, starts a lifelong feud with a hippie grocery store, defends eating ice cream like soup, and nearly destroys the entire studio.

Two guys. No credentials. Lower your expectations.

Transcript

SPEAKER_01 0:00

Welcome to Two Guys No Credentials. We're two completely unqualified people talk about nothing. And everything. Like we know what we're doing. Spoiler. We don't.

SPEAKER_02 0:12

Yeah, this isn't really great either because like now these seats are so much lower than where I normally sit. So now the camera's like up higher to make it all work and like. For those listening on Spotify, just pretend I'm doing something funny. I'll edit this out. Yeah, we'll edit this out.

SPEAKER_05 0:32

That's your line. I'm like, I'm like, what's his name? George Mancia Mancia? Is that Jose Mancia? Carlos Mancia? Carlos Mancia. We definitely have to edit this out. Uh why? Because I sound racist? A little. Whatever.

SPEAKER_01 0:55

I'm not good with names. Oh man. Alright. Kevin Mancia.

SPEAKER_05 1:04

So I got a great story from the VA, and I was hoping I wasn't going to. Hit me with a button. So I'm at the I have an appointment with primary care today with the VA. And I'm sitting in the waiter room and I'm like, let me just text Jeff and tell him whatever. So I was I texted you and I said, I'm at the VA right now. Hopefully there's no story for the pod today. And two minutes later, I text you, there's a story.

SPEAKER_02 1:37

Reading it too, I was in a meeting and I like looked at my watch. I'm like, oh, hopefully I don't have a story from the VA today. And I'm like, nice. Like it's like it's the stories are always great. And then two minutes later, it's I got one. Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 1:52

So the nurse comes into the waiting room and um she's like, okay, come on, Eric. And she brings me into the scales, she turns it on, and she's like, just wait a minute. It needs a second to zero out. And I'm thinking to myself, I'm familiar with scales, but thanks for the advice. Um, I'm also this isn't my first time here, so I get it. And she's talking a lot, like like personal questions and just talking to me, and not about why I'm there today. And that really makes me uncomfortable because I don't, I do not know what to say. And she makes a comment, she's like, Oh, I like your shirt. I like Metallica too. And it just says metalhead, it doesn't say anything about Metallica, so she just assumed. Um, but then she starts telling me about a story. Um, I'm so uncomfortable at this point because I she's just talking, and I'm like, Yes, okay. Yeah, yeah, sure, sure. And I because I don't know what to say, how to respond to her or anything. Um, so she starts telling me a story about when she went to a town meeting and they asked the audience or whatever it's called at a town meeting, the townspeople, uh, who liked Metallica. And she was so surprised that so many people liked Metallica. And I'm like, you have to say something, you have to say something, you have to say something, you haven't said anything, you have to say something. And I'm like, yeah, lots of people like shitty music. And I'm like, fuck, why did I do why did I say this? What? Yeah. Oh man. So she looked at me and she's like, Oh, you're not a Metallica fan. I'm like, no, but she just so she reads the shirt. She's like, oh, it doesn't say Metallica, it says metal head, and it's a robot. And I'm like, oh my god, it's not like it's not a robot, he's an android, he's a droid. It's it's way different, way different. Get it right, mom. Yeah. So that's my VA story. That's what happened.

SPEAKER_02 4:09

All right, let's pause here real quick. My mic isn't recording.

SPEAKER_05 4:13

And we're back. Your microphone.

SPEAKER_02 4:15

And we're live.

SPEAKER_05 4:17

Alright. Um, that was weird. But that was weird.

SPEAKER_02 4:23

My story's so good. Oh, that it was that is funny. Like, I because I can see it, right? Like, you just see metal, and they're like, oh, Metallica, because it's kind of a cool shirt. It's got like, you know, shit happening on it. It's definitely made to look like like a metal band t-shirt. Uh but it definitely didn't look hard enough. And then like the fact that you're wearing it and then you don't have a filter, chef's kiss.

SPEAKER_05 4:51

Uh, I'm just in my head going, you have to say something. Say something, do it now. Say something, think of something.

SPEAKER_02 4:59

That's what came out. I you know what's funny? I was just about to say, I would love to hear your inner monologue that goes on, but then I remembered I do just after. If there's inner dialogue going on, it's gonna come out. Yes, yeah.

unknown 5:18

Oh my god.

SPEAKER_01 5:21

Oh my god, it's terrible.

SPEAKER_02 5:23

Oh, it's awesome, dude. You know what? Because what is cool about it, like seriously, is you never have to like you never have to guess what you're thinking. You you'll you'll be honest about it. And maybe like, you know, there's certain situations where I just stand back and watch the fireworks, but it's terrible. Uh I love it. I think it's great. Especially going out to restaurants. Oh man, like when we were on the cruise and that that waiter just kept asking asking, how is everything? Is everything good? And you're like, you know what? It's really terrible.

unknown 6:01

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 6:02

But you said it so kindly, you were just nice to him. This is is I don't he you you remember specifically, you're like, I don't know what's bad about it, but it's bad.

SPEAKER_05 6:18

And I told I told him my ancestors were rolling in their graves. Because I I was eating, I was eating like um, I don't know, some pasta dish.

SPEAKER_02 6:29

I don't remember what it was. Yeah, it was ZD or something. Yeah. Yeah. The best part is that that guy didn't give two shits because this is his very last cruise and he was retired. So like he's like, oh, it was bad. I don't give a fuck. He just moved on. Yeah, it's always bad.

SPEAKER_06 6:46

Who cares?

SPEAKER_02 6:47

Well, I mean, it probably is. It was a carnival cruise.

SPEAKER_05 6:52

Yeah, it's got it can't be good. Oh man. Um, any stories, updates, or anything before we get into um our regrets?

SPEAKER_02 7:02

Um not really. Um, maybe it's just something to watch out for. Um, I had to fill in on drums for a music video for a friend of mine. He's making his career out of out of music, so like this, like this kind of stuff really matters for him, and being able to like put stuff out there on social media. So I was really cool to get the call, and I already kind of knew the song anyway, so I just kind of listened to it a couple of times, and it was really cool to kind of be in that environment with actual professionals, like a videographer who knows what he's doing, and like the the set design and all that was really, really cool. Um, and so when it's out, we'll uh we'll definitely talk about it more and then we'll link it in in you know an upcoming podcast. But uh yeah, like pretty cool experience to just kind of be a part of, and they're a bunch of nice people, so it's it's a really cool event. What what the coolest thing about it, I think, uh, because they I've talked about it on the pod before. Um, it's the Rock Autism Foundation. So they will actually hire um kids on the spectrum or with Down syndrome, and then they like some of the footage you see is footage they shot, which is cool. Oh, that's to give them an up to give them an opportunity to earn money, like doing something in the arts, like uh that's really kind of neat and interesting and fun for for them to do, like is is a really, really unique opportunity. And there happen to be a bunch of um um speech therapy students from University at Buffalo that also volunteered their time to continue to work with those kids. So now like you're able to impact all of these people where like the students can work with you know the the foundation members and help them and and and help with their you know speech and get to know people and get to kind of get used to different speech patterns, and that that's a huge learning experience for them. But then on top of that, they're also helping these students be able to like you know earn a little bit of money doing really cool things. So yeah, that's cool.

SPEAKER_01 8:50

I like that.

SPEAKER_05 8:52

And I'm glad you're um our participator because I'm not, but somebody's gotta do it. Somebody's gonna do it.

SPEAKER_02 8:59

Somebody's gotta do it, man. I I can't, it's uh it's a problem I have. I can't say no to things. If someone asks me to help, I help them.

SPEAKER_03 9:10

Um I need $50,000, Jeff.

SPEAKER_02 9:13

All right. Well, uh uh, we can I can start a bake sale. Um I'll bake some brownies and we'll get started on that.

SPEAKER_05 9:21

I bet your brown I bet your brownies are really good.

SPEAKER_02 9:24

I don't bake, dude. I I love cooking. I have no patience for baking.

SPEAKER_05 9:29

Oh, that was the sexual innuendo. Oh, yeah, you could do um you could sell lemonade on the side of the road.

SPEAKER_02 9:42

You can sell lemonade. Um I mean, I don't know what plasma goes for these days. We could do that.

SPEAKER_05 9:48

Uh do people still do that? Is that still a thing?

SPEAKER_02 9:51

Oh, it's gotta be. People need plasma.

SPEAKER_01 9:54

I don't need plasma.

SPEAKER_02 9:56

I mean, that's a good point. I'll have to get back to you.

SPEAKER_03 10:00

Uh all right.

SPEAKER_02 10:02

Uh yeah. Who needs plasma? I'm sure like patients, right? They need plasma. I would also think like um uh like aliens, they need plasma for their ray guns. Uh so all right.

SPEAKER_05 10:17

Okay, yeah. Well, it depends on what universe we're talking about. If we're talking Star Wars, they don't use plasma, they use Tabana gas.

SPEAKER_02 10:26

Well, that's obviously not the universe that we're talking about. Just saying.

unknown 10:30

All right.

SPEAKER_02 10:31

That is awesome. I didn't know that.

SPEAKER_05 10:32

Yeah. Let's get into uh our regrets and make this personal.

SPEAKER_02 10:36

What do you think? Hell yeah, dude. Let's do it. Um, I have a regret, and it's not really like so much of a regret because once again I was helping somebody do something and I enjoy that part of it. Um, my brother's putting in a deck, and it's a pretty sizable deck, it's gonna be awesome. So we had to shovel 10 tons of stone Saturday morning, and man, that is literally backbreaking work. What? Well, so you need to have that stone so like when the snow melts and shit, the the water has somewhere to go instead of just like cooling up around your foundation, it helps like disperse it. So you put the like the deck right on, like you build it up onto off on top of that, so then the water has somewhere to go. But my little tiny body is not built for that life. These delicate hands they can't deal with manual labor. I don't think so.

SPEAKER_01 11:29

No, definitely not.

SPEAKER_05 11:30

You're not built for it. You know what, though? I gotta ask you a question. Um, why didn't you ask the guy who broke down your driveway? I I feel like he owes you a favor.

SPEAKER_02 11:42

Yeah, the guy that ruined my driveway. Oh, that moron. Jesus Christ. You know what's funny about that guy? He shows up like to the neighborhood, and we like kind of ambush him. I kind of felt bad about that part of it. But um, when he told me, like, if I could figure out how to get concrete, if I could guarantee concrete in Buffalo, I'd be a millionaire, I'd be wearing a suit right now. I would drive up in a Lamborghini. But then I looked, I'm like, you're driving a souped-up Ford Raptor. It's like a $90,000 vehicle. You are driving a Lamborghini, you moron.

SPEAKER_01 12:15

That's how dumb you are. Wait. We're talking about two different people, I think.

SPEAKER_05 12:25

Hmm? The guy who is who you you are uh like DoorDashed mulch from. Oh my god. He owed you a favor.

SPEAKER_02 12:37

We are talking about two different people. Yeah, I thought you were talking about the guy who ruined my driveway. What you're talking about is the poor fella whose car broke down in my driveway. Yes.

SPEAKER_03 12:51

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 12:52

My driveway's seen a lot of shit in three years.

SPEAKER_03 12:55

Seriously. A lot of shit.

SPEAKER_02 12:58

Yeah. Anyways, going back, what was what was kind of I don't know, kind of neat in a way. So it was my brother's house, so my dad was helping us a little bit. And my dad was explaining a little bit, like, that's what his grandfather did for a living with shovel stone like that, and then they would pour concrete because he's an Italian, that's what we do, concrete. Yeah. Um, and like they did that for eight hours a day, six days a week. I'm like, Jesus Christ. When you think about it, I did it for maybe four hours, and like I couldn't move the next day. Doing that every single day, like no power tools. I mean, we've we've become soft.

SPEAKER_04 13:36

Well, these were these were men, real men, not like men like us, like real men.

SPEAKER_02 13:42

Yeah, real men. And like right now, I'm sitting in a finished basement in the stadium seats that I purchase, and I have the internet in my pocket at all times. I have gushers, like I'm not built for manual labor.

SPEAKER_06 13:58

I have gushers.

SPEAKER_05 14:03

Oh man, gushers sound. I haven't had a gusher in a long time. That sounds good.

SPEAKER_02 14:08

Yeah, they're not bad, they hit the spot every once in a while. See, thing is, I don't have much of a sweet tooth. I'm not a candy guy, but uh, you know, every once in a while something will hit the spot.

SPEAKER_05 14:18

I like a piece of chocolate after dinner. Yeah, okay. But then I I'm like m my piece of chocolate is like a pint of ice cream.

SPEAKER_02 14:30

Yeah, well, I mean just a smidge, just a scoche. Yeah. Uh yeah, I was on the ice cream train for like a year. Right after dinner, we'd have some ice cream, and we were crushing ice cream. This was mostly COVID times though, so like everyone did that, I feel like.

SPEAKER_05 14:47

Yeah. Alright. Um, anything else for your regret?

SPEAKER_02 14:53

Um I mean, not really. That's the majority of the regret. Just like the way my body felt after. Um, but I mean, it was it was nice out. It was it was cool. We got it all, we got it all done basically. So that it was kind of cool to feel accomplished like that. Oh but like that kind of manual labor, man. We need that stuff. We need people that do that. And I'm really thankful that there are people that do that kind of thing for a living. So then you and me, we can sit here in our homes making a podcast that my own wife doesn't listen to.

SPEAKER_05 15:24

Yeah, and complain about shit that doesn't matter.

SPEAKER_02 15:27

Yeah, that's what we're here. That's what we're here to do. Speaking of, complain about some shit that doesn't matter. Let's go.

SPEAKER_05 15:34

Oh, well, speaking of ice cream as well. Um, last week somebody had a birthday at work. Um, and somebody's asked me, hey Eric, will you go to this grocery store and buy a bunch of ice cream? And I was like, Yeah, sure. Absolutely. So I drive to Stobbin Shop, um, and I go to the freezer aisle, and all the freezers are blocked by like pallets of groceries. I'm like, what the fuck is going on? Like, why is this like this? And there's employees everywhere. Like, there's like there's an emergency, like there's a grocery emergency. There's seven employees. You never see any employees at the grocery store, and there's seven in the aisle, but nobody's explaining what's happening, and I'm I'm sure I look confused because this doesn't make any sense. Like, I need ice cream, like, but I can't get to it. Um, yeah, and finally I start grabbing the pallets and trying to move them, and some giant person comes over. And I when I see him say giant, he's like, he's gotta be 6'7 and just like Andre the Giant, huge. And he's like, excuse me, sir, you can't do that. I'm like, Well, I need ice cream for a party. He's like, We have to keep all the doors closed because the freezers are broken. We don't want to lose product. And I'm like, Well, if I take that, you won't lose it because I'm gonna buy it. Yeah, he's like, No, you can't do that.

SPEAKER_02 17:10

Wouldn't you rather sell the product that you don't have to worry about losing it?

SPEAKER_05 17:13

Yeah, so I'm super pissed because not even nobody said anything, they're just letting me walk around looking like an asshole. So I leave in a huff. I'm huffing. I'm like, and get to my car. I go, I'm not from the area I work in, so I Google um another grocery store, and there's market something or other, Lichfield Market or Market 32 Lichfield, something like that. I'm like, okay, it's five minutes down the road, I'll go. Get in, and it's kind of like a hippie-ish store, like worse than Trader Joe's, because it's real. Like it's a real hippie store. You know what I mean? Does that make sense? It does make sense. And I'm I go there. I'm at I enter at the end of the store. There's no freezer aisle. So I walk to the back, start walking to the other end, thinking that's where the ice cream's gonna be, because that's where the ice cream is supposed to be in a grocery store, but it's like cereal. I'm like, this doesn't make sense. So I turn back around, I'm like, they don't have fucking ice cream. There's fucking hippie bastards. So I find so I finally find like the freezer aisle aisle, and it's the dead middle of the store. So I grab like 17 things of ice cream, and I I didn't grab a basket because I'm a moron. So I'm like going like this. And at the end of the freezer aisle, there's a man standing dead center holding a basket and scrolling on his phone, and there's there's two checkout aisles, both have occupants, but they're paying. So I just walk around this man, get into an aisle, and um the guy bagging kind of looked at me funny, and I was like, What was that? And the person checks out and leaves. The cashier looks at me and says, Were you in line, sir? And I slowly look behind me, and there's nobody there, right? Like, so I turn back to her slowly and kind of give her a funny look. She's like, the line starts the freezer aisle. What? And I'm like, what do you mean? She's like, the freezer aisle, there, there, the line starts there. I'm like, well, there's nobody in line. And she's like, yeah, the she's like, it starts back there. I'm like, well, there's nobody in line. And she's like, well, for next time, uh, just know that's where the line starts. And I was like, I won't be coming back next time. Yeah. So I was like, I won't be coming back. She just looked at me like I was a complete asshole. Uh, but that's my thing. Going to some hippie store to try to buy ice cream for somebody's birthday.

SPEAKER_02 20:14

I know the line starts there, right? But like when you're at the front of the line, then you come here. So if there's nobody at the front of the line, the next move is here. I am the front of the line. Right.

SPEAKER_05 20:27

There's two people paying. So that means there's room for you to go up and put your stuff on the belt. But that man wasn't. He was scrolling on his phone. So you lose. I agree.

SPEAKER_02 20:41

That is what a what a gross emergency.

SPEAKER_05 20:45

Yeah, what what a dumb place. But my thing is, is like, are we really like reinventing the grocery store line wheel? Is that what we're doing here? This is why I can't stand these kinds of people or these kinds of places because we've got to be different. Like Trader Joe's, everything's at an angle. Why is it all at an angle? Like, can't you just have them flush with the beginning of the store, please?

SPEAKER_02 21:13

Yeah, like let's make everything nice and angular.

SPEAKER_05 21:16

Yeah. Oh, god. Like, we gotta be different. Hey, let's not do it how everybody else does it. Maybe the reason why everybody's been doing it that way for 150 fucking years is because it works.

SPEAKER_02 21:31

Yeah, it could be. Could be. Let's treat it like the roadways, right? We have intersections. When you get to an intersection, you don't just plow through it because there could be somebody around the corner. You get to your intersection, you look. All right, cool. I'm not gonna hurt anybody. That's my biggest pet peeve when you're in the grocery store and somebody just like, oh, I forgot bread, and they just whip around like there's nobody in this 20,000 square foot store but you.

SPEAKER_05 22:00

So dumb. So dumb. Um, but I mean, I do regret doing it, but also I don't regret doing it because now I have a lifelong grudge against a grocery store, and I didn't have that before.

SPEAKER_02 22:13

Yeah, I feel like you're someone that needs to have a grudge at the grocery store.

SPEAKER_05 22:17

Yeah. It was it I was definitely missing that in my life.

SPEAKER_02 22:20

Yeah, it's at this point, it's good for your health.

SPEAKER_05 22:24

It's good for my health. This is definitely not good for my health. Although I had per I had perfect blood pressure at the VA today. So hell yeah, dude. Let's go. Yeah, I don't hold any of it in. I just let it all out.

SPEAKER_02 22:41

Well, there's something to be said for that, actually. I do have a question though. So ultimately, you got the ice cream and you brought it back to work, and everyone had a great time.

SPEAKER_05 22:52

I don't know. I went home. I didn't even have ice cream. How did you leave that out of the story?

SPEAKER_01 23:02

That's the best part.

SPEAKER_05 23:04

Oh, I was I was bummed that I didn't get ice cream.

SPEAKER_02 23:08

Uh, I mean, I would be too.

SPEAKER_01 23:11

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 23:12

I love ice cream. You know what slaps, by the way? Klondike bars. Yeah? Oh. I will crush a Klondike bar.

SPEAKER_05 23:23

How do you eat your Klondike Klond? How do you eat your Klondike bar?

SPEAKER_02 23:30

Um, well, you gotta be careful about the the melting right away. So you gotta unwrap it and use a little bit of the wrapper, and you gotta eat it that way, and then you get down to the bitter end, and then you risk it.

SPEAKER_05 23:44

Oh, alright. I'm gonna tell you something about the Klondike bar.

SPEAKER_01 23:49

Okay.

SPEAKER_05 23:50

Um I don't like them. Oh. And here's why. Um I like my ice cream melted and a soup.

SPEAKER_02 24:02

Hmm.

SPEAKER_01 24:03

I did know that about you. Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 24:07

And you can do it with a Klondike bar, I guess. You could break it up into pieces, but it's not as satisfying.

SPEAKER_02 24:14

It doesn't seem like it would be. Um it is that is the wrong way, by the way. It's the wrong way to consume ice cream. But have you ever done it? Yeah, I mean, I've had ice cream that was a little melty. It's it's nice. It's a little melty.

SPEAKER_05 24:30

You want it like a cold ceviche.

SPEAKER_02 24:39

I don't think I've ever compared my ice cream to a ceviche before. It's all refreshing. I I I disagree on this one because ice cream should be able to be placed in a cone. You can't put liquid in a cone. You sure can. You just tip it. Yeah, you just you suckle it like a teat.

SPEAKER_05 25:02

Yeah, well, you hold it, you put your pinky out, and it's the uh it's the sophisticated way to eat ice cream. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 25:10

The old Benjamin Franklin.

SPEAKER_05 25:13

We're never gonna get to the to the deep end, but uh, I gotta tell you, when I was in Japan, I um I was friends with this guy, and he was there a couple of weeks before I was there, so he kind of knew the lay of the land and everything. So he brought me to a restaurant, and the first thing he orders is ice cream, an ice cream cone. I don't know, what the fuck? Like ice cream before dinner? Man, Japan is wild. So um he eats all the ice cream out of the cone, but he does he saves the cone and he orders something, and I don't know what it is, but it finally comes out, and it's this mashup of like uh shredded cabbage and some sort of meat, and it's got little tiny fish in it with like beady eyes, like something they would feed to the seals if they got a little bigger. And um, I'm like, what are you eating? And oh, so he starts scooping it into the cone. And I'm like, what are you doing? Oh, he's like, I love this. Like, you should try this one day. And I'm like, Oh, what is it? It's like it's raw horse meat. No thanks.

SPEAKER_02 26:34

Yeah, no thank you. Although if I'm being honest, secretariat probably tastes amazing.

SPEAKER_06 26:42

Oh my god, we're we're going down. Hold on, hold on. We gotta fix this happening. Why won't you say up? Oh my god. I'm never gonna recover from this. Oh my god. Oh my god, what a nightmare.

SPEAKER_05 27:46

What the fuck look at this is what we is this the what we have to deal with?

SPEAKER_02 27:52

Um, does your chair go down any further?

SPEAKER_06 27:58

No.

SPEAKER_05 27:59

No, no, oh my god. This is crazy. And we're back. Yes, we are. We just had an uh an earthquake in Connecticut and wow, everything just really went off the rails.

SPEAKER_02 28:17

Uh Lizzo must have just stepped off her tour bus.

SPEAKER_05 28:21

Hey, she looks great. Yeah. She lost like three pounds. I'm never gonna recover from this. It's so bad.

SPEAKER_02 28:37

That's all good. All right, let's take a deep breath. We can't even breathe. We'll cut half of that out because it's hilarious. We've got to see some of it.

SPEAKER_04 28:45

Yeah, we do.

SPEAKER_02 28:46

Oh my god, what a nightmare. Ready? Three, two. All right, and we're back.

SPEAKER_05 28:56

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 28:57

Twice. Two times.

SPEAKER_05 28:59

Two times. Technical difficulties all over the place from Buffalo to Connecticut. We're doing a great job today.

SPEAKER_02 29:06

Professionals, dude. This is just what we do. All right, so we didn't get to get to our we didn't get to our deep end uh last week. And I really want to make sure we have time to talk about the deep end section of the podcast today, the decline of patriotism in America. We're gonna get serious for a second.

SPEAKER_05 29:27

Yeah, we're well, I'm gonna try. Um and the question the question for today is really why does it feel like patriot patriotism is dying in America? Um and uh like it just feels like even if we're not as patriotic, it feels like more and more people are uncomfortable, uncomfortable saying that they have pride in the United States. And um, I don't know, I think that's uh I think that's sad.

SPEAKER_02 30:02

Yeah, it is sad. Um, I spent a little bit of time thinking about this, and I think that in in this sense, right, why does it feel like patriotism is dying in America? I think almost all of it for me, the way that I feel about like the the country and people in it, and the way that they feel about the country, uh, I think it has to do with um the divide that exists right now. It's probably the most palpable it's been in my lifetime. And like there's there's such a divide, and I think what makes when I think about patriotism, I think about everyone that has this universal goal, like unification, like unifying the country in that goal. And because there's such a division right now, I just think that that's why it feels like patriotism isn't there. However, for for me, I think that I see patriots on on both sides of the aisle, it just manifests itself in different ways.

SPEAKER_05 31:05

Does that make sense? Yeah, absolutely. Um basically the whole premise of the deep end today is that for me, I agree with you. I don't think patriotism is disappearing, I think it's become politicized. Um, and that's why we see the decline. That's what I think. So um I I jotted down some quick stats. Um, Gallup's 2026 polling for American Pride is at a 25-year low. Um 53% of Americans are extremely or very proud to be an American. 33% are extremely proud, 70% of Republicans are extremely proud, 28% of independents are extremely proud, 14% of Democrats are extremely proud. So the decline is real, but why?

SPEAKER_02 32:00

Yeah, um, I just have a quick question about uh these satellites. So 53% are extremely proud or very proud to be an American. Is it of that third 53, 33 are in the extremely proud category? Yes, exactly. Okay, yeah, yeah. Honestly, I I think I feel like this polling is very accurate for like my own walk of life and the people that I know. Um, I'm obviously friends with oh, this is gonna sound worse than I meant it, but I'm friends with a lot of people and all people from different backgrounds and like you know, walks of life and different ideals and everything. Um, so I feel like I I sit in this. I definitely fall into um I don't really know that I fall into any of these categories that are listed out, actually.

SPEAKER_03 32:51

Oh, really?

SPEAKER_02 32:52

I'm definitely not as I'm definitely in the bracket where I am not as proud of the country as I wish I was. Um and I think the current administration has a lot to do with that for me. But I but also I I turned to things like the World Cup, right? All the footage coming out about the World Cup when the team USA was still in it, and what other countries actually think about us? Like we're we're kind we're from everything that I've seen, and not just some clips, but like everything, the different chants, the different um interactions that people have posted. There are some really good ones, like when Iran was playing uh in the US and like US fans were like happy they were there, and like we're listening it's all about football today, and you know, whatever's going on overseas right now that's not for here, and like everyone, everyone got together. I thought that was really, really cool. However, most of the other countries and how they think about America is that were a joke because things that are happening right now, I can see why they think that, and I I don't know if I agree, but like I get it.

SPEAKER_05 33:59

Yeah, um, well, I gotta be honest with you, I feel like it was always like this because I remember people talking about um like in the 90s, um, talking about how the French hate us. You know? So I think this was always a thing. Like, oh, those stupid Americans and their French fries and apple pie. Um, you know, they stole everything from Europe and that, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. So I think this is always a thing. But I, you know what? Who cares what they think? They're not Americans, their countries are stupid. Um, and our country is the greatest country to ever exist in the entire universe, ever. So it really doesn't matter to me. What matters to me is Americans. So I fall into, I I guess we disagree on this, but I'm extremely proud to be an American. Um, I may not be a proud of the state of the country right now, um, but I'm I'm proud to be an American because we have such a special framework in this country that we can change and we can get better. Um, and if we make a mistake, we can also say, hey, we made a mistake, we can go back. We like we have the ability, nothing's set in stone except for the Constitution of the United States. And that's not even set in stone either. We can make change, just a lot of us have to agree, agree with it.

SPEAKER_02 35:30

Yeah, we can amend it, right? Um, so let me let me clarify a couple of things about how I feel. I so I took the question as like, are am I proud to be an American right now? Um, obviously, overall, I'm extremely ecstatic. I feel very fortunate and proud to be an American, just generally overall. But I am I proud of the country right now, not really.

SPEAKER_05 35:58

Um, but that's the thing. That's why I'm saying, so that's my question. Like, are we really less patriotic? Are we less comfortable saying that we are proud? And has um patriotism become political? Because right now, what you're saying is almost a political point of view. Well, that's a decent point. I'm not proud of it now because there are Americans. I'm you know, the MAGA people who are super proud of what's happening, you know. Um, so it that's a political thing. And I'm saying the United States of America, are we proud to be Americans?

SPEAKER_00 36:43

Hmm.

SPEAKER_02 36:45

I mean, I I think if you would if this poll was worded in that way, I think you'd be a lot closer to a hundred percent of Americans being proud to be Americans. Um, but I I don't know that patriotism is synonymous with being proud to be an American.

SPEAKER_05 37:03

Uh the question was, are you proud to be an American?

SPEAKER_02 37:07

Yeah. I I I think if you were to lay it out that way, mo almost everyone would agree. Um, well, I guess uh unless you're you're stating that's what Gallup's polling was.

SPEAKER_05 37:16

Yeah. Are you proud proud to be an American?

SPEAKER_02 37:20

Well, I think what's difficult about polls in general, though, um is it doesn't account for what people think the question means. So there most people are thinking, right?

SPEAKER_05 37:31

But the only thing we can do is assume that they know what the the question means. That you know what I mean? That's how that's how the data works, I guess. I don't know. Um that's really here nor there, I think, right? I don't know. I think if if it's tw a 25-year low and it's the same question from 25 years ago, there's definitely a decline.

SPEAKER_02 37:56

Yeah. If it's the same question 25 years ago, definitely. I think that that makes it a lot more um statistically significant. Uh like I guess the question is why?

SPEAKER_05 38:09

Right. Um, and that's what we're here to talk about. And we have no credentials to do it, but we're gonna do it anyway. Okay, so anyway, so I got I so here were my thoughts, and we're just gonna kind of go through them, and I want to see if you agree or disagree, or what you have to say, and I don't know. Hopefully, it has it creates some good conversation between us. All right, okay. What do you think? Yeah, I'm down, I love it. All right, so here's my thought. So I think because it's on the Democrat side, it's on the left side. Obviously, there's independence in there, um, but that's where the we're seeing the decline. We are seeing the a decline in Republicans right now, but it's not as dramatic as the left. And I think from just what you know I see online and read in articles and the news and everything else, uh this is what I interpret that decline as. The left hates what it thinks patriotism represents. Does that make sense?

SPEAKER_02 39:22

Uh I think so. Um, if you could elaborate a little bit though.

SPEAKER_05 39:26

So I think the left really associates um uh embracing the flag, the military, the constitution, founding principles, traditional national pride. They associate that with conservatives in the right, and specifically right now, Trump and MAGA. Um, so you know, they're not rejecting America completely, um, but they're rejecting what they associate patriotism with.

SPEAKER_02 40:01

Hmm. Like almost like buzzwords, you're saying.

SPEAKER_05 40:06

Not buzzwords, but like conservatives, they're like, hey, we like the Constitution, we like traditional values, we like this, we like that. And the left is saying, oh, well, that's what patriotism looks looks like, rather than you know, my outlook on patriotism for me. Um, well, I guess it is the traditional values, the constitution, pride in the United States, the military, supporting them, you know, um, not supporting your team like the left and the right, but supporting like what this country was built on, and the idea of the United States being a better, freer place around the than around the world.

SPEAKER_02 41:00

Yeah, I um I think from what I see from my point of view, what I what I kind of believe is, and I guess this is why like progressives tend to be kind of left-leaning, is I look at all of those things, the uh military, the constitution, um, and I find I guess with with our current administration, what I'm what I'm feeling, because that's kind of what we're talking about, right? Like, because within the last 25 years, and particularly this, like the last two years, I think you're seeing that decline in patriotism because I find there to be a lot of hypocrisies when the right talks about the constitution and what it and what it means and how important it is. I find there why aren't we asking more questions about what we're sending our military into? I find like the founding principles or traditional like values, like the I I think it's awesome that people vote for traditional values, but when we're pushing that to make that federal law, that's a problem for me. Like that should be a state law, right? Um if if that's what you're looking for, depending on what we actually mean by defining traditional values. But um I don't know. I don't think that but I also don't think any of that for me means that I'm not a patriot. I just know that our country is great and it could be even better. And that's what I'm trying, that's what I'm looking to do. I'm looking to continue this to make this country better. I'm looking to move the country forward. And when I see our current administration like getting in the way of that, yeah, I can't be proud of what's happening.

SPEAKER_05 42:41

Right. Well, I think um we always do this, and I'm gonna do this, I'm gonna say this right now because you know what it's gonna turn into. I don't want to make this a debate about Trump or any other presidents. But for me, the way I look at this is in the past 20 years, I have seen the power of the presence, presidency uh become bigger and stronger and more encompassing, and that's through conservative and liberal or democ Democratic and Republic Republican candidates or presidents. Um Wow, that was really hard to say. Um but I think this we'll edit this out. Yeah, but I think for for me, we say we talk about traditional values, and what I and I I guess when I look at it, traditional values for me is um people should be free. People have rights. The government is there to protect those rights, not give them to people. We already have them, they're there to protect them. Um the government's job. first and foremost is to protect and take care of its citizens and that's it. Um I mean there's the I mean I I could go on, but that's what I think is traditional values. I'm not talking about marriages between a man and a woman or no sex before marriage and that sort of thing. Because societies do evolve. Do I think that maybe um the left has gone a little overboard with that? Absolutely. But that's the point in living in a a society where we think people should be free. They can choose to have different opinions live their lives as long as they don't hurt anybody or take their stuff.

SPEAKER_02 44:44

That's how I feel yeah or kidnap their dog.

SPEAKER_05 44:49

Well that's their stuff that falls that falls in under the category of stuff. My Xbox my dog but I guess um I I guess like for me it's like um if I could talk to all the people who dislike or are proud to be Americans I would say that the flag is not strictly Republican. The Constitution isn't Republican freedom's not conserv like conservatism like these are things our country was built on and if you fundamentally don't like those things go somewhere else because like we like I agree with you we have to make things better but if you fundamentally don't like those things then America isn't for you.

SPEAKER_02 45:48

That's how I feel I I and I think you're right about this. And that's where I think that we it's going to be tough to talk about this topic without this current administration because to me those numbers that you pointed out before is a direct correlation with current administration.

SPEAKER_05 46:03

And we don't have to go down that road but um I'm sure they're responsible for a a a large drop but I I remember in um God when was the occupied wall street stuff going on 2009 2009. Yeah because I was working in operations in San Diego and I remember seeing Marines in uniform protesting a part of the Occupy Wall Street protest and like holding up signs talking shit about like the American government and it's like what it what are you what are you guys doing? Like you know you're not supposed to do this kind of stuff. So it's been going on for a long time.

SPEAKER_02 46:48

Yeah but I don't think that even Occupy Wall Street and all of that was to the the level and quantity that it's absolutely not I'm just saying there's a gradual decline and maybe we got a little steep decline you know after Trump. But I think uh I think it's big it has been declining for a long time. Yes absolutely yeah well you know I I think so if I if I take a step back for a little bit I think we I might have gotten a little ahead of myself too um I think that no like overall there's a general frustration from everyone like we've talked about this before on this podcast where like the last several elections was kind of like if you're somebody that votes on party lines it's a bad choice versus another bad choice. And like that's frustrating. Going back to was it oh it was Obama and Mitt Romney.

SPEAKER_06 47:47

Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_02 47:48

Yeah I now I I actually really liked Obama as a president overall um there were some a lot of things I didn't like but like if it's a pass fail assignment in school he gets a pass for me. That's interesting for that. But then like you know was there a better candidate at the time I'm sure now I am kind of too young to know or have really understood any of that at that time um but then fast forward now you're talking about like Hillary Clinton or Donald Trump two horrible choices again right then you're talking about uh Donald Trump or uh Joe Biden two horrible choices again and then you're talking about Biden and Trump again two horrible choices again. It's just like it's it's to me it I I can understand why it's so frustrating and I understand that like ultimately Biden was the one the wasn't the one that ended up really running but like we talked about this last week Kamala Harris ended up being forced down people's throats. Now I still think she was an excellent candidate and I like implored people to vote for her but I could I couldn't really be mad that they were frustrated that she got uh the candidacy without running like no primary there's like it just like was decided and shut and forced fed down everyone's throat and that's a frustrating thing and I and it's because and I've said this before I I align myself my my values and what I want for the country aligns it more with on the left but I'm still realistic in that Democrats have a problem because they love the smell of their own farts and they do they can't get their head out of their own ass and understand that like condescending people on the right to try to be correct about things um making people feel stupid and like that that's not going to get us anywhere and that's why they didn't vote for Kamala. And so I I will you take all of that bullshit yeah it doesn't really like I I can see why people don't feel as much pride in their country because even if they voted at the numbers that they should they're still choosing between two horrible candidates well you're kind of you're kind of like bleeding into the like my next kind of topic um because so what for me like I grew up on stories like World War II, the moon landing the cold war national unity um and then as I was becoming an adult um we had September 11th and the country really uh unified around that and I actually I ended up joining the Marine Corps shortly after um but the younger generations people who were born in the late 90s early 2000s um they grew up with two wars the financial crash school shootings covet inflation national debt um and then you've got Trump Hillary Trump Biden Trump uh and like they they I got like this great highlight reel and they grew up with like the blooper reel you know oh man this is a really great angle right yeah I I think I well I'm super smart so zero credentials but you stumbled upon a good one yeah yeah um but like I think what has happened is we had two wars in we had one a war in Iraq a war in Afghanistan we had all that stuff and um young people kind of feel like America failed them to give them the thing that they could easily be proud of I mean it's so hard to own a home now everything's so expensive we talked about this before um and you know you don't like you have to have something to unify around and September 11th wasn't gonna do it forever like you have to have a country that works and it just doesn't feel like it's working anymore. Yeah and how unfortunate that it takes a tragedy and a disaster like 9-11 to bring the country together that's what it feels like right now. If it it feels like like the that's the only thing that would do it. And it's a sad place to kind of live um but I think that you're absolutely right and I I have I have a quick question for you and I don't mean this in a mean way what generation are you a part of I'm on the border of millennial and Gen X.

SPEAKER_05 52:52

Gotcha okay because so I think a lot of people would say I'm a millennial because I'm 83 um but you see different years where it starts like sometimes they say millennials are 81 uh sometimes they're like 83. I don't consider myself a a millennial um I because I just don't I I don't I don't know why. Like I feel I when I look at millennials and um how they're talked about and the way they're described I just don't feel like that's describing me.

SPEAKER_02 53:27

Yeah well I I think if you did grow up on like the border year right like a right around one of those border years of the generational split I think environment matters a lot right and like like the type of media and everything that you're ingesting. All that so that's that makes total sense. But like for for like I'm staunchly in the middle of that millennial generation right yeah and I um I think it's a great angle because I can totally see why it's impossible to afford a home like everything you just laid out and like a a part that's like hitting us right now student loan problems. Like there was a promise from the government that we were going to invest in the future of our people and then we're gonna charge you 7% interest and then we're gonna tell you that listen if you pay some of this back and we make our interest back and we can keep money flowing into the economy that we'll forgive the rest of your loans because they're making that investment in us and taking our tax dollars for it. And then they're like ha never mind we're gonna blow this whole system up and we're gonna sell all of your student loans to different companies that have different rules and any payment plan that you were on, we're just gonna move you to a different one and then you're gonna have to just deal with it. And that's what like my current our current situation is and it's very stressful and I feel really shitty about that because like what was the point and so like I'm not like I'm not proud of any of that. Like that all all that bullshit matters we we happen to be very fortunate that we have um good paying jobs and you know that that we were able to find them because it's impossible to do now we're extremely fortunate but still that pressure is there and it doesn't seem like anybody in the last two administrations have given a shit about it at all and how crippling it is for us financially and because it's crippling for us financially how crippling it is for the entire economy because everyone in our generation and the generation after and after and after and after is going to deal with that same problem.

SPEAKER_05 55:34

That's true.

SPEAKER_02 55:35

Um absolutely um I don't know uh I really don't know sorry I went on a tangent there yeah no it's all right I just um I uh I don't know uh this part of the the like this part of the deep end is is depressing you know yeah um because we're supposed to be talking about patriotism and basically we're naming all the bad things that like that we can name and we're not even naming all of them not even close yeah however when you start laying it out like that it's it's not hard to figure out why people maybe aren't excited about what where things are at right now. Right it's totally understandable. Now would would anyone if you ask any of those people any of those millennials would you rather live in Bangladesh the answer is no they would all say it right like they all know that America is the place that they would want to live this isn't true anymore. You really don't think so I think people say that kind of shit like Rosie O'Donnell's like no no no she never fucking leaves I watch this shit because like I'm in like I'm into this stuff. So I watch conservatives go to campuses and ask students like would you rather live in the United States or would you rather live in Iran and people say Iran they'll yeah they'll say if you have a choice between Israel and any other Middle Eastern country which country would you pick and they're like well I wouldn't pick Israel that's a bad place and it's like really like it's the closest thing that you have to here and you hate it you know like listen but that but that in fairness none of them would actually leave like no get them get them get them to the airport and get them there and they that that's all just like bullshit they say to try to like make a point or to try to challenge whatever conservative person is going there and speaking like that's all nonsense bullshit no I understand but it's still like I like 30 years ago 40 years ago I don't think there's any person who would be caught dead saying something like that. Like on Knight so so that so this could be right. However the social media age you're right 34 years ago nobody would say that the social media age it's it pays to be outlandish. It pays to say the crazy thing you get clicks you get likes right if if you're saying outlandish thing and it's all just the ones they're not the ones getting the clicks though. The people who are filming them are getting the clicks yes and no uh right like their social media is attached to it people find out who they are like it's all interconnected people are not that I understand but I like I think they are I absolutely think they are I was watching a video I I don't want to get into a debate about this but I was watching a video the other day um and somebody was uh had a poster board with the American flag the Iranian flag the confederate flag and somebody else's flag and they were like which flag is more offensive to you and this whole group of people were pointing to the American flag and and they're all saying well we're oppressed women don't have rights they're being taken away from us and this and that and this and that it's like and then they're asked what rights have you lost and they don't they can't even answer they can't even I I really don't understand that because I've seen shit like that too and like in fairness I get I get like I don't really understand like what they're saying but I think it plays into my point though I think it's the same like what what I'm saying is like they just want to be outlandish and crazy but if you I don't think so but these people I think these people actually believe it. Yeah I I don't because as soon as you got them to the airport said all right we're moving you to Iran I mean look at no but uh look at how many like the protests going on and you have people going and interviewing why are you out here because Donald Trump's taking our rights uh we're he's oppressing women you know uh uh he's oppressing the LGBTQ community it's like is he how yeah those wouldn't be the hills I would die on right but like these people are at the protests holding signs saying this stuff and whether they actually believe it or not they're saying it and that's what that's brings me back to my point is they're they're not they don't hate this country they don't hate the foundations of this country they hate what they think it's associated with and that's the right and conservatism and Trump and MAGA uh you know what you're you're convincing me even further I don't know that's convincing me even you're convincing me even further that that that take probably is right because I I do I do think that that is kind of a a a response to MAGA holding up their signs saying let you know they're their flags that say let's go brandon right it's like a it's a retort to stuff like that because I also think on the right they're they claim to be so patriotic that Trump can do no wrong right and they're so happy about everything that's going on even though they're the you parts of the constitution have been challenged and like if they were to if they really cared about the constitution then they wouldn't like the current president and so a lot of it is just like retort back and forth because there is such a division right now.

SPEAKER_05 1:01:36

Well that's my problem with Democrats and Republicans period the like they don't their oath to the Constitution means shit to them.

SPEAKER_02 1:01:47

All of them yeah or very few very few actually take that oath seriously um and that's why like that's why the power of government has just uh the federal government has expanded and expanded and expanded because they don't care yeah it's part it's party over country every time yeah absolutely on on both sides and it's it's and I but again for me that's frustrating and I'm not proud of that like why would I be proud of a country that like only gives a shit about two teams yeah I would like to say that the only two teams that matter uh are the Bills and the Steelers but the Steelers really don't matter yeah it's just the one team the Buffalo Bills which if I could sidebar for a second but um this just came out from ESPN if I could sidebar for one second just came out for from ESPN they do a a poll every year of all um like executives and and coaches and owners throughout the NFL I would like you to take a guess who they believe is the best quarterback in the NFL if I had to pick you know let me see NFL exact it's got to be Mahomes. No it's your boy Josh Allen oh really okay yeah yeah that to me is the most significant one because like NFL people that are in the league that see it every day all day all year they think Josh Allen's the best and you know what they're right the Jets were finally right about something that's about it's America's quarterback right there.

SPEAKER_05 1:03:30

Anyways um back to the topic yeah uh so I thought like I thought it would be a good idea like a good idea to talk about something um maybe the three people who listen to us if you're not proud to be an American um I thought and maybe because you think that our founding documents are flawed um and that you know the because America's original promise excluded a whole lot of people that you want to point to that as America is bad um and my thing is is the founders were flawed there were people and they were flawed and yes they did exclude people from the promise of America and that's wrong but the cool thing is is the founding wasn't perfect but the ideas the ideals that um were instilled in the foundation of the United States gave later generations the tools to challenge the failures of our founders and that's what makes the United States the greatest country in the world because they did that for us. They knew they all knew well not all of them but they all felt like we like we are that like we're hypocrites.

SPEAKER_02 1:05:00

They knew they were hypocrites but they were like we need to make this special thing and we are we're gonna need to be hypocrites to do it because if if we're not hypocrites it's gonna fall apart before it even begins and they predicted the civil war over slavery and it happened they knew it was going to happen but it couldn't happen at that time and I I think it's I it gives me fuck it gives me fucking duck bumps dude I think I think that I think the founding fathers were fascinating in this way because now I wasn't there but and 1776 I wasn't there. But I like I do think there was a little bit of them that looked back you know because they were older men at the time they would look back forty years and They would say, like, how look how much has changed even in this amount of time. If we're gonna establish a country that's gonna change over hundreds of years, developing a way for us to amend the constitution and adjust to those changes is a brilliant idea. Were they flawed? Yeah, by today's standards, absolutely. And and and back then, I mean, I I can't really wrap my head around why anyone would think that like slavery was cool or normal, but I guess that wasn't the norm then. Like they were flawed people at all, it wasn't the norm then.

SPEAKER_05 1:06:38

It was the norm from the beginning of time. From the beginning of time, what when people started putting up walls and building buildings, they were they had slaves. It was the first thing that was ever traded, probably. Like slaves. I like the punctuation of probably. There's got to be a pie chart somewhere that proves it. Well, I'm not a I'm not a history, I'm not a historian, but um I could probably guess like, well, this is easy. Like, let's just go take those people and trade them to that person. Like, you don't have to grow anything, you don't have to mine anything, you don't have to make anything, you don't have to pull out anything on the earth. Like it just seems like that's that's that.

SPEAKER_02 1:07:20

Yeah, like I'm not a I'm not a history Scientologist, but I can tell you something else that makes sense. Um, anyways, getting back to the the deal, um, I I think I think it's I think what those men were able to do is brilliant and and allow the future generations a way to amend the constitution, which we've done dozens of times, and I think it makes so uh I don't know. And that's the idea, like uh you you have it here. The idea was spectacular and brilliant is so forward thinking. And when you really think about like our government today and compare how forward thinking that they are to then, it's kind of embarrassing.

SPEAKER_00 1:08:07

It is embarrassing, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:08:09

It's embarrassing. So yet again, another reason why like it makes sense to me that people aren't that proud of what's going on. Yeah, because back then it was it was country over party, and where they really didn't have even have a party established yet. But I I remember reading a quote from George Washington talking about something to the effect of like having a limited party system, meaning like a two-party system, would be the country's demise. I think we're starting to see the beginnings of that. You divide the country in half that way, it starts to become I don't give a shit what the other side says they're wrong, even when they're right. Right.

SPEAKER_01 1:08:52

Yeah, I agree.

SPEAKER_02 1:08:54

Um and then when you have a problem, then when you have a president calling them Democrats, does not help that situation. It was gasoline on the bonfire, but you know.

SPEAKER_01 1:09:05

I I like it. I love when people call me a Lib Tard. I think it's so funny.

SPEAKER_05 1:09:11

It that that phrase is funny, yeah. Um, but that's my message for everybody, and that's my little short class for anybody who thinks this country was founded negatively. Like the founding was terrible because um those principles they were bigger than the men who wrote them, and you can't fix America by hating the principles that made it fixable. And you can go tell that to the Marines. Um, we're running out of time, so I'm gonna skip I I I'm gonna skip a piece here uh because uh I had something else like let's just skip this. We're we're gonna move on. Um I think another piece to this is the American flag has become a team logo in the eyes of people.

SPEAKER_02 1:10:13

Hmm. Yeah, dig into this deeper for me.

SPEAKER_05 1:10:16

All right, so uh just last week on the view, um Sonny Hostin, is that what it is?

unknown 1:10:25

I'm sorry.

SPEAKER_02 1:10:28

Just last week on the view, whoopy Goldberg.

SPEAKER_05 1:10:31

Like it's just like I think I think her name's Sonny Hostin.

SPEAKER_06 1:10:35

I don't know.

SPEAKER_05 1:10:37

She was saying that um when she goes into a town where there's American flags everywhere, she doesn't feel safe. Um Talib Ko Talib man, I can't say his fucking name. He's a rapper. Talib Talib Kwali. That's it. Kwali. Um awesome, by the way. Yeah, big fan. I had a CDs growing up. Um I didn't discover him when there were his tapes. Um, I've discovered him during the CDs. Anyway, um, he said the same exact thing. He posted it on on, I think it was X. He posted that uh when I see a community with American flags everywhere, I know I'm not welcome. And let me tell both of you, Sonny Hostin, Talib, Talib Kuali, Newtown, Connecticut. There's American flags everywhere. Come here, you'll be safe, and you'll you're absolutely welcome. Well, maybe not Sonny Haustin, because she's got some fucking crazy shit she's gotta say. But um, I'd still, you know, walk past her in the grocery store and not say anything because that's the type of person I am. I don't like talking to strangers.

SPEAKER_02 1:11:51

But you've got it's also because you got 17 things of melting ice cream in your hands, and you gotta get out of here.

SPEAKER_05 1:11:57

Where's the butt of the line? But you're absolutely welcome. And my thing is, is Newtown can't be the only town in America with American flags everywhere, and you're and black people are safe. But I I I it's become a symbol, and they're there, you're right here. And I think uh in this perspective that they're doing it for clicks, right? But there's people online nodding saying, Yeah, that's right. I don't feel safe. Those places aren't safe for me. Those white people hate us. And it's like, if you I go to Caralozy's the grocery store up the road once a week at least, maybe twice. There's all kinds of people. Every single race you could think of is walking through that grocery store, getting along, not hating each other, and that's the United States that we should be proud of. Not the shit you see online.

SPEAKER_06 1:13:00

Yeah.

unknown 1:13:01

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 1:13:01

Oh, I got an I got another story for you here. There's an HOA Um Homeowners Association in San Diego that threatened residents with with fines for displaying the American flag. And when asked about it, um, what did she say? Um what did she say? I wrote it down. I can't find it.

SPEAKER_02 1:13:23

I got it right here, if you want me to say.

SPEAKER_05 1:13:25

Oh, yeah, go for it.

SPEAKER_02 1:13:27

Yeah, so just to recap, the Homer's Association in San Diego threatened residents with fines for displaying American flags, and the HOA stated that they viewed the flag as political or affiliative displays, and residents saw them as a symbol of a country and excuse me, and tributes to uh relatives who served. It's crazy, isn't that crazy? It's insane.

SPEAKER_05 1:14:00

It's an insane statement. Like it's not a political affiliation to fly our flag. No, it's saying we're all from the same goddamn place. Part of my friend.

SPEAKER_02 1:14:10

Yeah, it's oh yeah. I think it's interesting that's when you chose a censor yourself. Um so a couple of things. I want to back up a little bit. Um I think I think that it is I think it's crazy for the most part. Well, I don't know if I want to say this. I think MAGA voices have become so loud and they preach such great patriotism, and they're so proud of the country that it does, I can understand why a black person would think twice about an area that is so heavily flying the flag. I in my opinion, I think it's ridiculous. I think that anyone flying the flag is because they're American. Um, but it's the same, it's the same reason that like a MAGA hat would offend like a a black person, right? Like I I can draw I can draw that line real easily. Um I think it is crazy for Howard's Association to disallow flying a flag. Now the interesting part about this is like there are some HOAs that won't allow you to fly any flag. And like that's a completely different thing, right? You can't fly any flag, you can't like staple it to your house and you can't do that. Right. And I get why why someone do that, right?

SPEAKER_05 1:15:40

I understand that, but the thing is, is what her the her reasoning.

SPEAKER_02 1:15:45

Yeah, the reasoning is insane because it's a political affiliation. No, it's not, it's the 4th of July.

unknown 1:15:53

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:15:56

But I want to- You know it's a lot of the HOA fucking fireworks, no flags, no flags, yeah.

SPEAKER_05 1:16:04

Um, but I want to go back to something you said because you were like, if somebody was wearing a MAGA hat, a black person might be afraid of that person or think they're racist or something like that. But that's because they've been told that's what they are.

SPEAKER_02 1:16:23

No, I disagree with this.

SPEAKER_05 1:16:25

No, absolutely. It's everywhere. I see it all the time. MAGA, you're a racist because you support a racist. Um, Maggie, you don't respect women because you support somebody who doesn't respect women. You don't respect the law because you support someone who broke the law and is a felon. You're bad people because you support him. That it's it's it's all over this the news, it's online, every social media platform. That's what people are saying. And we're uh like we can talk about what the right does on the other end, but right now we're focused on patriotism and the flag and why it's declining. So that's not why I'm not talking about that. Uh because it's not declining on that side, it's declining on the left. Um yeah, but I think that plays into it.

SPEAKER_02 1:17:15

Because people but don't you think it plays into it though? Because the people on the left are are are seeing that that merchandise everywhere.

SPEAKER_05 1:17:24

What I'm saying is they've been told they the media and the people controlling this narrative are othering the MAGA supporters, the people who voted for Trump. They're othering them, they're making them the bad people that need to be gone. Like their opinions don't matter anymore.

SPEAKER_02 1:17:45

So I I can see your point here. I don't totally disagree. Um, however, the word let me just ask you real quick. The words make America great again. It's again. So that super that that that suggests that America was great in the past. When?

SPEAKER_01 1:18:10

When? Yeah. It's always been great. So it was great when black people couldn't vote. Nope.

SPEAKER_05 1:18:20

But it's always been great.

SPEAKER_02 1:18:22

Because it's always been a good thing. But that's but that's my that's my point, right?

SPEAKER_05 1:18:26

Why I can understand why a black person you're creating a narrative here.

SPEAKER_02 1:18:31

Well, the the word the words create a narrative. No, make great again.

SPEAKER_05 1:18:35

You're creating a narrative of your own. Like, you're interpreting those as make America great again, the time when black people couldn't vote. You just created a narrative.

SPEAKER_02 1:18:48

No, no, no, no, no, no. Yeah, that's what you're doing. No, no, listen to what I'm saying. I'm saying I can understand why a black person would see those words and take offense. Because, yeah, because yes, everyone's going to create a narrative. When when you say make America great again, it's suggesting America was great in the past. And so if you're a black person America was great in the past. When they were slaves, when they couldn't vote, when women couldn't vote. Like that's what they're thinking in their head.

SPEAKER_05 1:19:19

I understand what you're saying. I am saying what I'm saying is why they can draw that parallel. But they're not drawing the parallel, they're being told that online. They're being told by people who are interpreting that as saying something that it's not. Make America Great Again is was never a slogan to bring us back to a time when black people were slaves or women and black people couldn't vote, or there was redlining. Uh it that it it was it's not that's never what it meant, and we all know that. Do we? Because yes, we do. We know that. Where in what way are we has Donald Trump, the Make America Great, or anything like that, taken away or attempted to take away the rights of any American citizen?

SPEAKER_02 1:20:18

He literally tried to uh lobby for uh the abolishment of birthright citizenship.

SPEAKER_05 1:20:26

Yeah, that's been going on forever. When that decision, when there was a Supreme Court decision on that, there were people who were dissent, there were Supreme Court justices that just dis uh dissented. That argument's been going on uh since that what is it, the 14th Amendment? Uh when when it was amended. That argument's been going on forever. I remember them talking about it in the 90s.

SPEAKER_02 1:20:58

Sure, but that's still wrong then. It's an amendment to our constitution.

SPEAKER_05 1:21:03

But there but see, but the argument's been going on forever. He's not trying to take away people's rights. He's saying that their rights aren't guaranteed by the government. They don't become, and they nobody also, first of all, we're talking about rights. Nobody has a right to become a citizen of this country. You either are or you're not. And what he's saying is, you're not. What people are saying, yeah, that nobody has a right, everyone has rights given to them. Yeah, and one of those rights is not you can be an American citizen if you want to be.

SPEAKER_02 1:21:44

That's not a right. I but that's not what the Fourteenth Amendment says. The 14th Amendment says if you're born in this country, you're American. Yeah, except that but that's not a right. So that child it sure is. No, but it's not it's not a right. I I'm given it.

SPEAKER_05 1:22:07

You don't have a right to citizenship. There are laws that say you can be a citizen, but there's no right. Rights come from nature, not from government. And in nature, there's no right saying you can be an American if you want to be. That's a law here, and the law has been disputed since forever. He's not doing he's not taking away people's rights. He is taking away people's citizenship, right? Or he's attempting to, but it like that's a debate that's been going on forever, and part of I see it from both ways. I understand the arguments, it but it's not a bad people who believe it are not bad people. They just are looking at it and say, hey, you don't just get to come here, have a baby, and now the baby's an American citizen.

SPEAKER_02 1:23:06

Yeah, so I I can see you, I can see your angle there. Cause that because that has been happening, right? Like, let me just get to America so my kids are American, you know. Um I think that that's a whole separate other topic.

SPEAKER_04 1:23:19

Yeah, that's we're getting into the weeds.

SPEAKER_02 1:23:23

Yeah, I'm just but I'm just I still I still will I still will push back a little bit though, right? I I don't think originally the intent of the phrase make America great again was to suggest that like we should go back to slavery because that was when it was great, or that we should like make you know go back to before women could vote because that's what was great. I don't think that will is what was intended for that phrase. However, I I I also I staunchly disagree that it's only the media forcing that into people's heads. I think I I disagree that it's that it's all made up narrative around it because I'm not a black person and I can't assume to know what goes on in in their minds. What I'm pointing out is that I don't think it takes Einstein to draw the parallel there for for somebody who is of color is is my take on that, right? Right. So then I just so then so then when you go when you extrapolate further and you see that like the most patriotic people right now are MAGA people. Um the the ones that are so in line with everything that's going on, they love everything Trump is doing, and they are so proud to fly the flag. I don't think it's like crazy to get that.

SPEAKER_05 1:24:52

That's not being patriotic, though. Sure, but to them it is. That's that's right, right, right. But that's where that's the whole point of this, right? Right? Patriotism has become political, right? That's not patriotism. Supporting the president that you love and think is the messiah and is gonna solve all our problems. That's not patriotism. Patriotism is what I'm talking about. I you know, I agree. And what and what you're saying, saying, I don't like this, but things can get better, and we have things to fix it, and I'd like to see it happen. Even though we disagree on how that we get there, that but we're both being patriotic just saying those things. And right, I I think this might be a good lesson for people on the right, too. Like, just because you are flying the flag, um, just because you are supporting Donald Trump, just because you think the war in Iran is great, um, just because you think like ICE should be roaming the streets, stopping anybody who's brown and putting them in alligator Alcatraz is awesome, that's not patriotic. Yeah. Patriotic is saying I love this country and the principles that were it was they it was founded on.

SPEAKER_02 1:26:12

That's patriotism. And it's so poignant right now, like just coming off of the Fourth of July celebration or Independence Day. How every single year, with each generation, we get further and further removed of why we celebrate that day. Kind of like all holidays. I mean, really, if we're being honest, every generation gets further and further away from why we're celebrating that in the first place.

SPEAKER_05 1:26:38

Well, I think um people don't care about the history of this country. I mean, and that probably ties into something of the stuff we're talking about here. Um, because I remember I asked, this was years ago at a different job. I asked somebody um who fought in the Civil War. And she said something wild, like the French in the South, or the French something wild. And it's just like, how do you not know that? You know? Right. Um, I mean, there's people who are like, well, um the white people invented slavery. What? No, no, we don't we don't know, but everybody had slaves at one point, every single person on this planet, or every race on this planet had slaves at some point in time.

SPEAKER_02 1:27:26

They claim the pyramids of Giza were built by slaves. They were obviously built by extraterrestrials, but that's a different discussion.

SPEAKER_05 1:27:34

Yeah, it was extraterrestrials, and they used some sort of sound device to move those blocks.

SPEAKER_02 1:27:41

Yeah, sound device and uh like um gumby.

SPEAKER_06 1:27:49

And gumby.

SPEAKER_05 1:27:50

All right, well, we got four minutes left. I don't think we solved anything, but unlike normal. Well, I don't think we made anything worse either.

SPEAKER_02 1:28:03

Yeah. Um well we got four minutes. Give give a give a small blurb on what we can do to solve this problem. What can we do to get Americans to be more patriotic and understand what that means?

SPEAKER_05 1:28:16

I think we got to give up on give up the teams. I was gonna say the same thing. It it doesn't matter about teams. I think the other thing is politicians, I think the I think the first step is term limits. For Congress. And I think the I think the president's term limits need to change too. I think the president gets one term and it's six years. No campaigning. Nothing. Interesting. You just do your damn job. Interesting. I think there needs to be term limits, and I think there needs to be age limits in Congress. And I think that uh while you're in Congress, you don't get to make any money other than your salary. You don't get to do stock trades. You can put money into a Roth IRA. Um, but that's it. You're done. You're done. You don't get to go to Congress. Yeah, you don't get to go to Congress and become a fucking millionaire. AOC or that guy with the eye patch who I can't stand. Dan Crenshaw.

SPEAKER_02 1:29:20

Literally all of them. Like every single one of them do this, right? Yeah, it's so it's well, and that that that's the hypocrisy, though. That's why I hate the whole thing. Because AOC is the biggest Trump hater out there. She's got a ton of support on the left. She's doing this same fucking thing.

SPEAKER_05 1:29:39

Yeah. But I think this that's the first step. The other thing I think is um American history needs to be taught by people who actually know something about American history and not through the lens of this country was bad.

unknown 1:29:55

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 1:29:56

Because that doesn't solve that doesn't fix anything. That doesn't unite us. That just divides people. And I think people are getting rich off that shit. Um, and I think people really need to wake up um and just read about the founding fathers. They were very interesting human beings, and they a lot of them understood um that they were flawed and that they were hypocrites, and it haunted them. But they wanted to build something that would make all men free eventually, and it did. Yeah, it did.

SPEAKER_01 1:30:33

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:30:35

Yeah, it's it's to me, I think the biggest change to make people more patriotic is our education system. I think it's uh we we don't care about education in this country. Um select people do, but overall, like our education scores are way below our competitors around the world. And I I think that if we were able to enlighten people more and create more critical thinkers, that we would have um a lot more people unified in the same goal. Uh and I also think that everyone should get free ice cream.

SPEAKER_05 1:31:19

Free ice cream on Jeff. Not not on my dime. Not on my dime. Listen, yeah, you're sitting in in seats from the Bills Stadium. Hell yeah. Yeah. Uh you can afford ice cream for everyone.

SPEAKER_02 1:31:38

I stole these. No, I'm just kidding. I did not have. I did not. This was a birthday gift for my wife.

SPEAKER_05 1:31:46

Jim Kelly is gonna come after you.

SPEAKER_02 1:31:52

Jim Kelly's gonna roll up in his RV. Darren Thomas is gonna come out. Bruce Schmidt's gonna blindside me.

SPEAKER_01 1:32:00

Yeah, give me back my seats.

SPEAKER_02 1:32:05

Oh man. It's it is cool though. How much do we have any time left?

SPEAKER_05 1:32:09

Actually, we have a few minutes because we had that debacle with the earthquake.

SPEAKER_02 1:32:13

So yeah. Well, let's wrap this up. I mean, we did have a really I thought it was really cool, in-depth discussion um uh about patriotism. And uh we would love to know what you guys think in the comments about what is what makes America patriotic and what maybe what doesn't, and how we can maybe come to the center a little bit on that.

SPEAKER_05 1:32:32

Yeah, let us know your thoughts and and tell us what you think would be the fix. Yeah. I don't know. I don't want to hear anybody saying um that we need to stop podcasting. That's not the answer, and you guys know it.

SPEAKER_02 1:32:52

Oh, so um moving on to a different topic, and this is this wasn't planned, I just uh uh high mark stadium is almost completely torn down. Oh it's like like new high mark stadium is like literally ready to go. It's it's a month ahead of schedule, which is super cool. Um, there's like they're getting ready to like actually host events in there, like we they got the uh you know training camp going on pretty soon, and then they do like a the blue and red game. It's like a thing around here where uh you know the teams will come out and we'll do whatever and they have like a practice, right? And like a little scrimmage before the season starts. And it's actually a big deal around here in Buffalo because that's a great opportunity for people who maybe can't afford tickets or don't like want to go buy tickets through the regular season, they can still see Josh Allen play, they can see James Cook or whoever you can get there and get the experience. So a lot of the dialogue right now is like that's almost sold out already because so many people want to get and see that's the new stadium. Um, and I think it's really interesting. There's a lot of people that are like all up in arms about it because the season ticket holders don't get first dibs on that. And to me, I'm like, yeah, but you gotta understand some of the ticket prices this year are like in the $800 a ticket range because it's a new stadium and we're playing Kansas City on Christmas Day. So, like, that's an expensive game. So there's a ton of people out there that I want them to go see the stadium and go see the bills. Let them go, let them be able to go do that.

SPEAKER_04 1:34:28

Yeah, I agree. I agree. Let them go.

SPEAKER_02 1:34:34

Yeah, let the let I want any any because this is like what was important to me for sports, especially in Buffalo. You have to get kids involved early, you have to get them excited about it early. If you want to continue the rabid fan base that we have in the future, you gotta start them young. And the way to do that, season ticket holders, is to shut your fucking mouths and let these families go and see a practice.

SPEAKER_05 1:35:00

This is so you know what's so funny about this? And I get it. You like the Bills, Bill's mafia is a real fucking thing. I get it. But I didn't hear you say anything about um American history, get your kids started young. We want them patriotic and rabid fans of the United States, and neither did I. And maybe that, and maybe that is one of the problems, too, is you know, we're not, we're not like I don't want to indoctrinate kids, right? You know, I don't feel like I was indoctrinated, but my mom, my mom is a huge history buff, and she taught me so much, and you know, she would just tell me things like George Washington, they offered him, you know, to be their king, and he turned it down, and I'm like, what a fucking boss. And I just I love that time, and I like to think if you know I was living in that time that I would be one of Washington's spies and running around Long Island and Connecticut, um, and and doing my best not to get caught and killed.

SPEAKER_02 1:36:20

I mean, yeah, but you're you this this actually is a good point, right? It's not well, first of all, I actually do think if the Bills were in the Super Bowl, that would bring that would be the thing that'd bring the country together. Everyone in the country would instantly be like, listen, Buffalo needs this, right? And to be like completely honest, I I don't think there's a lot of the country outside the city that we'd be playing that would root against the Bills in a Super Bowl. Like, how could you? If it was the Steelers, but we would never meet in the Super Bowl, we're both the AFC.

SPEAKER_05 1:37:01

Yeah, I know, but I'm just saying that's I would root against the Bills hard. If we were playing the Eagles?

SPEAKER_02 1:37:09

No, the Steelers. Did I say Eagles? No, no, no, I'm just saying pointing out like in the Super Bowl, how would most like most cities root against the Bills at that point? Oh, I think I think a lot. You think so? I mean like New England would, Miami would, New York would. Uh Cowboys fans would. I don't know that they would. Really? I don't because that was so long ago, and they beat us by like 50 points in both Super Bowls that like if they're still holding on to that, then all the Kansas City people are gonna uh hate the bells. Sure, Kansas City tossed them in.

SPEAKER_05 1:37:51

I don't know. This is a good question. I have no idea. If anybody has the answer, please let us know. Um I don't know, maybe you're right. I think maybe a majority I yeah, because people like to see that. They're like, man, like they never got there, and we need down to have one. Maybe, maybe you're right.

SPEAKER_02 1:38:10

I think there would be a lot more support than there wouldn't be.

SPEAKER_05 1:38:12

All right, so NFL, this is what you need to do. Those execs write the script right now. Write the script. Josh Allen, MVP, Super Bowl. Let's get let's get it. That's how we're gonna bring this country together.

SPEAKER_02 1:38:27

And do you know what day the Super Bowl falls on? It's your birthday. This is my birthday, bitch.

SPEAKER_06 1:38:36

Yeah. Out of the story. It's written in the stars.

SPEAKER_05 1:38:41

If the Bills win, I'm returning your gift.

SPEAKER_02 1:38:47

If the Bills win a Super Bowl on my birthday, there's a there's a a really good chance I will not live to see the next day. And you know what? I'm kind of alright with it. I'm gonna go out on top. Has there ever been a better birthday present than a Super Bowl victory? No.

SPEAKER_05 1:39:11

Well, maybe a dinosaur who's nice to you.

SPEAKER_02 1:39:16

Yeah, I mean, well, I'm not sure if I could pinpoint the person that received a dinosaur for their birthday, but um, I'll find them and I'll MySpace them.

SPEAKER_05 1:39:28

All right, so that's MySpace. All right. Um, they didn't have MySpace in the Jurassic period, so you're kind of you're I think you're dealing with snail mail.

SPEAKER_02 1:39:38

We are dealing with snail mail.

SPEAKER_05 1:39:42

All right, all right. Wow, let's wrap this up. Um, I'm gonna try this and I'm gonna try not to mess this up again because I think three weeks in a row, I haven't been able to talk. So let's let's see if I can give this a shot. I'm gonna give you a pep talk real quick.

SPEAKER_02 1:39:57

Oh, what? Bro, I'm gonna give you a pep talk real quick. Bro, you fucking got this. You can do this, you're gonna fucking nail this. Let's fucking go.

SPEAKER_05 1:40:07

No, I'm gonna mess this up. You just put so much pressure on me. Uh all right, that's it for the week. Two guys, no credentials, where the questions are stupid, the answers are worse, and somehow we still learn nothing. Lower expectations, like and subscribe. Wow, like and subscribe. I can't say subscribe.

SPEAKER_06 1:40:25

You did it though, you boogie got it, bro.

SPEAKER_02 1:40:28

All right, we gotta go. Hit us on Facebook, YouTube, wherever you get your podcasts. Woogie boogie. Woogie boogie.