Rich People Problems

Fresh powder. Dirty passes
Skiers and snowboarders chase fresh powder, but these days, the real danger isn't just the mountain. Scams. Fraud. Cons hiding in plain sight. When one seller started offering "too good to be true" deals on Ikon Pass and Epic Pass, riders thought they scored.
Instead, they bought into a scheme that came crashing down hard.
The con artist in this tale was on a long run... until an avalanche of evidence buried her.

While skiers race on bluebird days, there is an underground pigeon racing circuit where you can bet there's a scam in play.




Harvard Business Case Study

Transcript

SPEAKER_08 0:00

That's a man that knows he's into some weird shit. All right, listen up and no one gets hurt.

SPEAKER_06 0:18

This is a podcast that focuses on crimes and scams where no one physically gets harmed. This is a podcast where information is a very good idea.

SPEAKER_08 0:30

So listen up and no one gets hurt. All right. Well, don't forget to like and subscribe, and in the comments, tell us if we like it.

SPEAKER_06 0:41

Welcome back. Uh today is a very exciting episode for me because I get to introduce one of my very good friends. His name is Faisal Subabon.

SPEAKER_12 0:52

AKA the hotel boss.

SPEAKER_06 0:55

Is that your Instagram handle?

SPEAKER_12 0:56

At the hotel boss, yeah. Nice.

SPEAKER_06 0:58

Um, I like to think that the uh term the man, the myth, the legend, was created because of this guy.

SPEAKER_08 1:06

He looks like he's got that tattooed as a tramp stain.

SPEAKER_14 1:11

Give me a little bit of credit.

SPEAKER_08 1:14

Upper thighs.

SPEAKER_06 1:15

Exactly. No, he's like the international man of mystery, you know? Like just you go anywhere with this guy, everyone knows him. It's insane.

SPEAKER_02 1:28

Sometimes you just like to get out there, or they pretend they know me. It's probably better, better way of articulating it.

SPEAKER_06 1:35

I mean, we'll we'll go to like uh one of things, something that my husband belongs to, and then we'll go in there and we don't know anybody, and they're like, oh my god, it's all we're like, what how did this happen? This isn't fair.

SPEAKER_02 1:48

They say I have a face, face for radio, though. Yeah, it's it's on it's on that note. The the best part is is like you'll go like this week I signed like a nine-figure deal. None of my friends can say like articulate what I do for a living.

SPEAKER_06 2:06

And that's also kind of what I wanted to think about for today's episode. This is you know, there's bring your daughter to work day. This is bring your friend to your side hustle day. Um, yeah, so this week you hosted the the blend.

SPEAKER_08 2:24

I did indeed.

SPEAKER_06 2:25

Yeah, that was a good show. We had a pretty decent-sized uh crowd for halfway through, and then you left, and then it kind of the crowd kind of left with you.

SPEAKER_08 2:36

In my defense, I had things to do. Yeah. And then the show must go on, right?

SPEAKER_06 2:42

Yeah, so and then we had George uh Perez drop in.

SPEAKER_08 2:46

Oh my god, he's so fucking funny.

SPEAKER_06 2:48

It was this guy, okay. He performs at Ice House, I think, right?

SPEAKER_01 2:53

And not 100% sure.

SPEAKER_06 2:55

I know, I know he performs at like some bigger places. Like around, yeah. Like he actually is like a paid working comic.

SPEAKER_07 3:01

Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 3:01

And and I don't mean like a one-off, like he's actually like Oh, he's hilarious.

SPEAKER_07 3:06

Didn't we go to the ice house?

SPEAKER_06 3:07

You went to the one when I went, yeah, yeah, yeah. But that was more of like a showcase.

SPEAKER_02 3:12

Just trying to flex a little street cred.

SPEAKER_06 3:15

It was kind of like um like a school play that happened to be hosted at the ISL's, but uh we had programs and everything.

SPEAKER_02 3:25

A refreshment center.

SPEAKER_08 3:27

Yeah, there's some sad lady selling raw flowers out front.

SPEAKER_14 3:34

Amongst other things.

SPEAKER_06 3:39

And then and then and then and then there's like some sad dad like running in late, like, ah they need to buy their flowers for my child. No, but um, so anyway, so George comes in and and he's like, Oh, I was like, what else am I working on? He's like, Oh, and then like uh one of his friends like shouts something out. He's like, So he riffs on that because it's like he's you know, he didn't bring paperwork up with him.

SPEAKER_08 4:00

Like he was just going to be like, Well, he's a professional, he's just gonna fucking well.

SPEAKER_06 4:03

I mean, to be fair, there are comics that read from their book. Oh, a hundred percent. Yeah.

SPEAKER_08 4:07

So um but you could tell that he's just like a naturally funny, fucking like conversationally funny, just like like he was doing. You could fucking throw out a word or two at him and he's gonna find a way to make it funny.

SPEAKER_06 4:18

Yeah, I I threw out Olympics just to be like whatever, and I can't remember what he said, but whatever he said was like actually very funny. I mean, he he made Brett laugh, Brett, my husband, Brett laugh. So I mean, he's Brett's a pretty high threshold. Yeah, he's a hard sell.

SPEAKER_07 4:33

He's a fucking hard sell. He's like, yeah, that sucked.

SPEAKER_08 4:36

Damn, right. No, he'll just like he's like whenever he's there and I I hit a punchline, I always look over at him to see if he even cracks a smile. If he cracks a smile, at least I'm gonna I'm keeping it. I'll take it.

SPEAKER_06 4:48

Well, when I try it jokes out in front of him, he's like, Where, but where's the punchline? Or like or or my I'm just gonna say my dare joke because I'm not gonna give away, but you know what the dare joke is. He does not, but the dare joke, you'll hear it later. But the dare joke, um May 9th, if you guys come, May 9th, yeah. So um, so the dare joke though, when I told it to him like the first time, he's like, that's a complete joke. I'm like, that's all I get, and he goes, that's about as high a compliment I can give. He's like, that like in general, like to anybody. He's like, that is a complete joke from start to finish. He's like, yeah, he's like, that's a good joke. So anyways, I'll take it.

SPEAKER_10 5:30

I know I'm sort of on the how did that night end? It was a complete night. I'm just saying.

SPEAKER_08 5:49

TJ depends on whether you're into praise or degradation again.

SPEAKER_06 5:57

So um I so you know the concept of the show is we're talking about true crime, things that really happen where people did not physically get hurt, right?

SPEAKER_13 6:06

Right.

SPEAKER_06 6:06

So I figured with you on the show, I like to try to think of something that the guest is interested in, right?

SPEAKER_08 6:12

This is interesting. That's a man that knows he's into some weird shit.

SPEAKER_01 6:24

Is this thing on? We are recording, correct?

SPEAKER_06 6:29

But I like to think of you as sort of an icon.

SPEAKER_13 6:33

Okay.

SPEAKER_06 6:34

Do you have any idea where this is going?

SPEAKER_13 6:35

No, I don't.

SPEAKER_06 6:36

What about icon passes?

SPEAKER_13 6:38

Oh, yeah. Okay. Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 6:41

So so this gentleman is a skier, his wife is a snowboarder, and they trouble the world to do their first love of skiing and snowboarding. So um I assume you're very familiar with the icon pass. So, so yeah, so you you are a customer. I am. Yeah, yeah. I am. Do you do you ever get the epic pass?

SPEAKER_12 7:02

I get both.

SPEAKER_06 7:02

Okay. All right. So, in case you're not sure, because I'm not really a skier, I mean I did a hundred years ago.

SPEAKER_08 7:08

I have no idea what's going on. I don't know.

SPEAKER_06 7:12

I am risk adverse, and that's why I don't want to go ski. I'm too afraid to get injured. Um, but uh so the icon pass and the epic, and please jump in, whatever. Um, it's a really expensive pass.

SPEAKER_02 7:23

However, if you're gonna go ski more than like 10 times in the season, it actually usually pencils at like four times depending on when you go. And they have like surge pricing now. So essentially on holiday weekends or when the resort's full, their lift passes are over three hundred dollars. And so you can look at it, it's like four times, five times for sure, you usually get your money back. And like some of the resorts are it goes up to almost four hundred dollars. So it's crazy. And that one's unique because you get like if you get the full pass, that one you get access. I think it's like seven days at Deer Valley, which is ski only. And so if you really want to be hoity toity, like you get access to there. So that's that's the thing that they have. Right. It's a little bit differentiated through through Deer Valley. Through Deer Valley, it's all terror.

SPEAKER_06 8:12

Does Deer Valley have its own special thing?

SPEAKER_02 8:14

So you can get a Deer Valley, just Deer Valley pass, but the the the premise behind these passes is you get a bunch of other resorts that you can go to. So the icon also you'll get uh Jackson Hole, you can go to Mammoth, and there's a bunch of other resorts all over the US and international that you have access to. Dependent upon the type of resort, sometimes you have unlimited uh you can visits with it, or there's a limit on them. So some of the more popular expensive resorts like Jackson Hole, I think you get five days, Deer Valley, you get seven days, uh, and then like Snowbird, you get a certain amount of days, and yeah, then others you can get unlimited.

SPEAKER_06 8:56

Right. But they're expensive.

SPEAKER_02 8:58

Uh it's not cheap. And I I just re-up mine for the pre-sale pass. I think it's like 1900 bucks or something like that.

SPEAKER_06 9:05

And the crazy thing is it's it's if the weather like this last season was not a ski season, but you bought the pass and you eat the pass. Like it is what it is, like that's all it is, right? Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 9:18

So then they they have one, then the other company that is almost criminal is Veil Resorts. And so they have that's the epic pass, right? Yeah, that's the epic pass. And so the whole racket is they basically have your money up front, like rain or shine, or snow or shine. Like it doesn't matter. And so this year this year. Rain or shine, yeah. Yeah, rain or shine, like it was terrify well, it was snow. But but they uh but what ended up happening was this year it was like terrible snow across like Colorado, Utah, California. The Northeast was actually pretty decent. I think they had one of their best years uh ever, but there was no snow. And so they charge you all this money, and people would try and go, and they have like two runs open or three runs open. And there's a lot of times like by the end of the season, there's just rocks and mud and and they're literally charging you $300 ticket.

SPEAKER_08 10:11

I'm skiing through the mud. Yeah, exactly.

SPEAKER_02 10:14

Exactly. But yeah, it was a bit bit of a racket. So now what they did this year, it's actually pretty iconic, but intended, is you can pay, I think it was two, I don't remember, so don't quote me on it. I think you can pay another $200 or $250 more to where you can cancel your pass and get a f full like full refund in January.

SPEAKER_06 10:38

Like almost like an insurance.

SPEAKER_02 10:39

Yeah, but by January, January is like the beginning of like that's like when things are ramping up. Like it's also like an FU.

SPEAKER_05 10:46

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 10:47

Because you would you want it like by Feb by February, if there's no snow, it's like, all right, I'm out. But January would be and it's probably like January 10th or something like that.

SPEAKER_06 10:56

So just in time to get it for Christmas, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 11:00

You get it, you get it, you get it for Hanukkah, exactly.

SPEAKER_06 11:03

And you're like, oh yay, I have it for 12 days or whatever. Like right for 30 days, I guess.

SPEAKER_02 11:08

But it yeah, it's a pretty pretty interesting play. And what they've done is they've basically said that a lot of people, the rumor is like you basically that they've ruined skiing just because they bring all these people to the resorts, uh, like they're trying to sell all of these passes. It's overcrowded because all they care about is selling passes, and then they try and restrict and limit, and you have to make reservations on high demand days and everything else. But it's really just a cash grab, like a complete cash grab.

SPEAKER_06 11:38

It almost sounds like they need a Disney executive to come in and like explain how like lightning passes work and like try to like.

SPEAKER_02 11:44

Oh, they sell you those too. That's an upsell. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. You can get you go to Snowbird and you gotta get the express lane and others. I think it's like 90 bucks for the day or 70 bucks for the day. Those sell out too. Then you need parking on top of that. Like you gotta be able to park somewhere.

SPEAKER_06 11:59

And that is unless you're in a chalet that has skiing and ski out privileges.

SPEAKER_02 12:03

Oh, that does change things.

SPEAKER_06 12:06

This is some white people stuff. I mean, it's that's I'm quoting what Tony would say.

SPEAKER_02 12:12

So saying it without saying it. Yeah, it it's pretty it's pretty crazy. First world problem. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But and then the the Epic Pass is pretty much the same sort of racket, a little less expensive, uh, but they do the same thing. So this year they had a bunch of pissed off people, obviously, because like 90% of the resort, 30% of the resort in some areas was closed the entire year, lines everywhere, terrible snow, and you're stuck. I mean, I I had both passes. I I normally get 50 days, so when I get say 50 days, I go for like an hour or two. It's like going to the gym because I have a place in Park City. I went twice.

SPEAKER_06 12:55

Well, we were supposed to go, yeah, and we didn't go because there was no snow. And also Brad had a trial, so but yeah.

SPEAKER_02 13:01

And we went to Switzerland instead, but it was Yeah, he had a last minute invite to go snowboarding with Sean White.

SPEAKER_07 13:08

So sorry, JJ.

SPEAKER_02 13:16

That was what I like to call an end-to-end trip.

SPEAKER_06 13:21

No, that was like an unbelievable trip. Yeah, it was insane. They they had like the mountain to themselves at one point in the time.

SPEAKER_02 13:28

That was a shameless plug for Chase Reserve, those people who they lay it out and they have all their other sponsors and everybody else.

SPEAKER_06 13:36

Yeah, he's like, hey, um, you know the weekend that you guys were supposed to come. Um, yeah, so there's a chance that we might fly to Italy to go snowboarding with Sean. We're just trying to wear all the logistics, we just want to let you know. I'm like, yeah, I mean it's fine because like we had to move it anyways as a Brett, his trial. So yeah.

SPEAKER_02 13:56

It worked out. But that was the only place that had snows out in Europe.

SPEAKER_06 14:01

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 14:02

So you do you know what happened with the icon pass and their their scam?

SPEAKER_06 14:07

So funny that you should bring it up because that's what I'm that's what I want to talk about. Maybe it's the same scam, maybe it's not.

SPEAKER_08 14:16

You are so excited.

SPEAKER_02 14:19

I'm a victim and I was not killed. What the fuck?

SPEAKER_04 14:23

Victim.

SPEAKER_02 14:24

All right, go ahead. You explain the scam. I'm gonna explain it from like on the ground scam.

SPEAKER_06 14:30

I actually said to Brett because I was running it behind the screen.

SPEAKER_02 14:33

We should call the guy that scammed me. You're live.

SPEAKER_14 14:40

We're going to call him.

SPEAKER_06 14:41

So um like behind the scenes look, uh, I do like to run some of the stories behind the scenes with Brett and like just like, oh, like this is an interesting story. Like da-da. And he was like, Oh, this is a good one. And then I said to him, I'm like, I wonder if Faisal got scammed.

SPEAKER_13 14:58

I'll tell you how.

SPEAKER_06 14:59

Okay. So I don't know if it's the same one, but maybe go ahead. You got another reason why Faisal probably got scammed was because he's like, Oh my gosh, these passes are so expensive. And this person on this ski site is telling me that they're gonna sell me a discounted pass.

SPEAKER_08 15:19

Which works out every time.

SPEAKER_06 15:21

All I have to do is um contract with them offline, like basically, not through like a main channel, and give them a Zell, Venmo, PayPal, Apple Pay, or uh debit card payment. And then that way they will complete the sale and I will get this discounted pass, right? Right. Okay, that's that's what happened, right? Okay. So um, and this was in starting in 20 uh 20 and went through 2024. And yeah, the the uh situation is that it's the icon pass, it's the epic pass, and this person would then take your information and and actually buy you a legitimate pass. So you had a legitimate icon pass, a legitimate epic pass. This was not a situation where they were forging any documents or falsifying any documents, so you actually had a legitimate pass. But what was happening behind the scenes is that this individual and group of individuals was actually stealing the credit cards of other people. So you, as the victim, would be like, I want this discounted icon pass, and I'm gonna pay $750 instead of what it was back then as $1,500. And then the individual who's the her name is uh Jamila Green. Uh she pled guilty to this. And uh her co-conspirator is, I believe, still pending. Uh so he's still uh presumed innocent because he has not pled and he has not been convicted. But so Jamila and her group uh would steal the credit or whoever in her group would steal the credit cards, and then they would make the purchase with the the stolen credit card. So they were hoping that the person whose credit card that they stole wouldn't notice the charge or wouldn't notice it for some time. And so that's how come they were able to buy a legitimate pass and give it to the buyer, and then they were getting that buyer's cash and putting it in their pocket. So they were they were netting some $150 from the deal. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 17:24

And they had like internal people that were all in on it. Like, you know, it's like I'm gonna process this, this one's here, this one, like dependent upon how many passes or if you've referred people, then they you know, they keep your pass live because there's some, I mean, it it's like one of these things, right? Sometimes like my life, I guess, gets boring, and so I like to underwrite a certain level of risk. Because we all know this shady shit, like what happens. I don't do any of this stuff, like uh knowing full well that it's probably gonna go sideways, but it's one of those like we'll see, and it's kind of fun, and you can like basically it's like fucking with the scammer, you know, like back and forth. And so I mean, I I had one of them that went through because there's like multiple that were done, and they were across both. They were selling icon and epic as well, right? So it wasn't it wasn't just that one, right?

SPEAKER_08 18:12

So let me make sure I understand. So you go to them, you buy the the fucking the pest or whatever for cheap. Yeah, and then they take your credit card information. No, no, no, no.

SPEAKER_02 18:23

So here's here's what happened. So yeah, I'll give you my real life example, they tie it back. So we all have a fucking buddy, right? So the buddy calls me. Unnamed. Yeah, unnamed. Alleged. That's me. We all have the buddy, and when he hears, I'm gonna send this over to him because we all have the buddy. And so the buddy calls, and he's like, and he's been telling me about this for years, like years. I'm like, Right.

SPEAKER_06 18:48

You're probably in 2020, it probably worked in 2020, 2021, 2022. You got hooked in in 2024, right?

SPEAKER_02 18:54

Yeah, I got hooked in last, yeah, exactly. And so, like basically, I every year I hear him telling me that it works and his friends that it works for, and like here, and it's like finally this year, this last season, I'm like, and it was like this time last year, and he goes two years ago, 2024. Well, no, it's still going, it was still going. This was last season, this is last season. That's why we're gonna call the dude. Like, we're gonna call him, but it's not gonna call him from a different phone. Like, you're gonna text him since you love being on your phone in the podcast.

SPEAKER_14 19:24

We're gonna text him.

SPEAKER_01 19:25

That's his fan calls, I love it. Oh, yeah. Okay, you should have answered it. You might have been good. I don't know.

SPEAKER_06 19:32

Sorry. What the heck? Um, it's nobody important. So what's it? And then the next one you have to answer. Okay. I you're gonna have to do some serious editing. No, it's my cousin now. It's like it's we're leaving it in. And it's literally on airplane mode. I have it on airplane mode.

SPEAKER_02 19:49

I got called twice.

SPEAKER_06 19:52

What else can I do? I have it on an airplane mode.

SPEAKER_14 19:55

This is actually your punishment. Since you didn't answer the third one, would you agree? I mean, we have to take it.

SPEAKER_02 20:02

The role is here. Okay, so you we're gonna call this dude.

SPEAKER_06 20:05

I'm surprised that's actually who it was calling.

SPEAKER_02 20:07

That's right here behind the curtain. You still, yeah, he's still scamming. So, anyways, this guy, and he's like, This artist, he's like, No, sir, like here, of course, like no, and whatever. And so what happens is you get the quick hit, bop, bop, bop, like you got the passes, like you send the money, and it's like, you know, say half the price. And so I had both of them, and then it's like, man, I don't know, this pass is showing in my account. It's like legit, right? And so you go and tell it, he's like, If you have a couple other buddies, and this would get, you know, like whatever. And so you tell a couple other buddies, and it goes from there. And so this last season is when it like it happened, and my wife is like, Come on, man, like you know how these like why do you always do this stuff? Like, you do well in life, like why and I like I mean, I love a little gray, you know, like sometimes it's just fun to get back, you know. It's like you got street cred just getting a little down and dirty, like in and I want to see what the local scams like, and yeah, like there's usually something, a nugget, like a gem you can take away that's still valid, like in the real world, in like a legitimate business sense. Because I mean the streets are when it all happens, like the business people just pretend they've got it all figured out and you know they're doing it legally, you know. I mean, it's like I'll I'll tell you about another funny story in a minute.

SPEAKER_06 21:21

He just wants a toe in. He just wants a little toe in.

SPEAKER_02 21:23

Just a little toe, you know, get my beak wet, a little banter back and forth with the guy, but that's it.

SPEAKER_06 21:28

You can't take the hustle out of the guy.

SPEAKER_02 21:31

That's literally, literally what I was about to say. You can't take the hustle out of it. And you know, I mean, at the end of the day, I've dealt with cartels that have better customer service than like the guy when it comes to this stuff, you know.

SPEAKER_10 21:44

You didn't see that coming.

SPEAKER_02 21:47

And so this guy goes and he's jolly, and then you start you like tell a couple of it. I'm like, I don't know, man. Like, I thought it was bullshit too. But my one buddy's tell me about it for years and now it works. So you got a couple others, a couple others. Well then. The roof stars cave it in, right? Which is obviously the people are finding it on their credit card, disputing the charge, and then you get an email because of fraud, your pass has been canceled, right? And so you're you're playing this tennis tennis match with this guy on the other side that we're gonna call. Like I literally have him that we're gonna call today. Like we literally, okay. Just so we can get him warmed up, right? Hold on. I'm gonna say I like I approve. This is like this is happening. Like you led me into this. I've actually gone, I've gone so deep into this guy. Like I have all his phone numbers, his addresses. Like, here I've gone through all the identity stuff, like flowing through. I've paid all the money. I know exactly where this guy, I know the whole scam, what they had, and I went to that reporter on X and I'm like, I've got it all figured out. This is besides the lady, I've got the whole other everybody else who's implicated, who they go. There's like professional athletes that are on this thing. I mean, it goes deep. And you can tell I'm a little passionate about it. All right, you got to text this guy, text this number.

SPEAKER_04 23:02

Okay, well done. Uh are we gonna bleep out the number or yeah, probably.

SPEAKER_02 23:08

I mean we'll be I mean I'm happy to share it to everybody. Okay.

SPEAKER_09 23:12

Let me see it.

SPEAKER_10 23:13

Oh my god, first of all, first of all, it says epic icon.

SPEAKER_14 23:25

You couldn't have teed up a better topic.

SPEAKER_07 23:29

I'm telling you. I'm gonna need that screenshot. I got it for you.

SPEAKER_08 23:36

I'm gonna need that screenshot. I'm dying right now. I'm gonna need screenshots of these messages too.

SPEAKER_02 23:41

Yeah, dude, I've I've been running this guy through the side. All right, so text this number. All right, just say, do you have any passes available for this year?

SPEAKER_06 23:49

It's a little early, isn't it?

SPEAKER_02 23:50

No, no, no. Now it's like pre-sale. This is like when he when he starts getting going. This is like prime time.

SPEAKER_06 23:56

Any pre-sale.

SPEAKER_02 23:58

No, no, no, not pre-sale. Oh, do you have any do you have any passes available this year?

SPEAKER_06 24:01

Passes available. I'm gonna just go avail, avail this year, avail this year. No, I'll do available. It's just auto-correcting it this year.

SPEAKER_02 24:09

We'll get that comment.

SPEAKER_06 24:10

Is his name Eddie?

SPEAKER_02 24:11

You said no, I just have him as epic icon guy. I have like his full name.

SPEAKER_06 24:16

Literally, if you're listening to this, um, you should be watching it. But his his cell phone says epic icon guy.

SPEAKER_02 24:26

I mean, like currently like how I mean, I am so deep threading this guy, like just messing with him. Like, I mean, this is like hours and hours and hours. Like, if you want to talk about the rabbit hole I went down just the restraint you've had to not send him a dick picky.

SPEAKER_08 24:43

That's like lower down here.

SPEAKER_10 24:47

December 4th, 1203. We'll get there. That was the dick you look on.

SPEAKER_06 24:54

Says yes.

SPEAKER_02 24:57

I'm telling you, we're going deep. Do you have icon or epic?

SPEAKER_04 25:01

Which one? Icon. Dude.

SPEAKER_07 25:04

Or this is fucking awesome.

SPEAKER_14 25:06

I mean, you can't make this.

SPEAKER_02 25:08

This guy's such a fucking scammer.

SPEAKER_06 25:10

Oh my god, red immediately. He's like, I got one.

SPEAKER_09 25:13

I got a lot of money.

SPEAKER_14 25:18

Rail it motherfuckers. I'm gonna put this guy on blast. It's gonna be amazing. So funny. Yeah, here he goes.

SPEAKER_06 25:27

Oh, uh, sorry for those watching. 700 for icon.

SPEAKER_02 25:31

Okay, there you go. That is insane. It's like 1200. How about how about uh did does he have epic?

SPEAKER_05 25:37

Yeah, he said epic 550.

SPEAKER_02 25:39

Okay, so then be like, is that the full pass?

SPEAKER_05 25:41

Is that full pass? For both of them?

SPEAKER_02 25:45

Yeah. All right. And then we gotta get, you know, we'll like mess with them like no blackout dates.

SPEAKER_06 25:54

I'm gonna say, is that full pass or blackout dates?

SPEAKER_02 25:57

No blackout dates. Because the full pass has no blackout dates.

SPEAKER_06 26:00

Okay, so no, so he says it's yes.

SPEAKER_02 26:02

So say like how okay, perfect. Just be like, well now he's on the he's on the line. Just say, okay, perfect. What do I have to do?

SPEAKER_04 26:11

What?

SPEAKER_08 26:15

Put a little weak. Yeah, exactly.

SPEAKER_06 26:21

I'm saying, cool, what do I have to do?

SPEAKER_02 26:23

Yeah. Oh yeah. Yeah, perfect. I'm telling you, you can't, I mean, you can't make this up. This is you guys all hook you up. Uh, if you want a discount, just let me know. I've got a guy. Okay, so while while we're going with that guy, so long story short, what ends up happening? Obviously, the passes don't work. And I have like my wife has one here to you know, friends have all of them. But all my friends I told them, like, they all know I'm like, buyer beware. Yeah. You want to, you want to like this is probably a scam. Like, but if it works, it works. And sometimes it's fun. Like, you pay for me, it was like pure entertainment. I could pay 900 bucks for like entertainment.

SPEAKER_06 27:04

Um, but it's and honestly, that's the thing. Sorry, did you mean to talk over here? What'd you say?

SPEAKER_08 27:09

I said $900 would change my life, right? Sorry.

SPEAKER_14 27:23

I mean, I could I could say you'd not have her bucks and start fucking with you too.

SPEAKER_10 27:29

I've learned my lesson. I don't have to people have been in prison.

SPEAKER_07 27:35

I will kill you, bitch. You said it did not be.

SPEAKER_06 27:40

So um they said in the legal transcripts that I've read, right? It said that none of the buyers knew that it was a fraud.

SPEAKER_02 27:49

But like, I mean, I'm always like, yeah, they I mean they don't advertise it that it's a like it's fraudulent, but it's like, oh my gosh, he took my money. It's like, you know, it's like, come on. Like it's less than half the price. Like it's something's wrong.

SPEAKER_06 28:05

Okay, he says which pass you wanted.

SPEAKER_02 28:07

Both.

SPEAKER_06 28:08

Both. What if I try to hassle him and be like, can you discount if I get both?

SPEAKER_02 28:13

Yeah. No, we will. We're not done yet.

SPEAKER_06 28:16

This is like I'm not giving credit card information. Okay.

SPEAKER_02 28:19

Um no, it's Venmo or Bell.

SPEAKER_06 28:22

That's true. That's true.

SPEAKER_02 28:24

Like, I even have like the Venmo Zell people. I have like everything.

SPEAKER_06 28:28

Oh my god. Dude, this guy is on it. Like, he is like probably so stoked right now. He's like, whoa.

SPEAKER_08 28:34

Well, he thinks he has one.

SPEAKER_06 28:35

Fish can meat. Yeah, exactly.

SPEAKER_08 28:37

What ended up happening? Did you get your money back?

SPEAKER_06 28:39

Hold on, hold on. It says text your epic account login email address and password.

SPEAKER_02 28:44

But say, can I get a discount for both? And just say, I have like three other. I don't know how many you have.

unknown 28:49

Okay.

SPEAKER_02 28:50

Just say that and say, I don't how many you have. Did you send that one? No, I haven't. Yeah, send that. Send that.

SPEAKER_06 28:56

Oh, I was gonna send it all as one.

SPEAKER_02 28:57

It's fine. You guys just like make it.

SPEAKER_06 28:59

Can I can I get a discount if I do both?

unknown 29:02

Okay.

SPEAKER_06 29:02

And then the next one's gonna be like not sure how many you have. How many you have available?

SPEAKER_02 29:07

Yeah, I have a few girlfriends that would probably jump on board.

SPEAKER_06 29:11

Why does have to be girlfriends?

SPEAKER_02 29:12

Okay, whatever you got, do you?

SPEAKER_08 29:14

Hell yeah, have a few boyfriends as well.

SPEAKER_02 29:16

And I'm friends with your husband, honestly.

SPEAKER_14 29:20

But you know, boyfriends it is.

SPEAKER_06 29:24

Just friends, friends. And then I sent a picture of a cop being like just the Fez. God, that's gonna I was gonna auto-populate to investors like that.

SPEAKER_02 29:40

Exactly. The fraudrying is expanding.

SPEAKER_06 29:42

Um so yeah, so so basically, um do you want to continue? No, no, no.

SPEAKER_02 29:47

No, finish what you were gonna say.

SPEAKER_06 29:50

Um so yeah, so the so the buyers allegedly didn't know. Wink wink. But um uh what ended up happening, he uh the it turns out that people started to realize that their credit cards were being charged and they weren't skiing. So then they complain to the credit card company and the credit card company then shuts down that transaction, right? They're like, oh, my car got stolen, or that's not my I didn't make that charge. So then they would uh reverse the charge, right? And then while the charge is being reversed, someone maybe like Faisal's on the mountain, right? And then they get found on the mountain. They're like, hey, bro, here's the deal. Your pass is not a valid pass. We're not saying you did anything wrong, but we're gonna have to compensate it from you now and you're done, right? So now he's out the money that he paid, the discounted money that he paid. And then if he wants to continue skiing, he has to pay more money for another like pass, right? Um there was other people that like maybe they were traveling, they're gonna go to this escort or escort, whoa, they're gonna go to this resort with an escort.

SPEAKER_02 30:59

Yeah, so here it goes. It's like you're receiving this notice as a because the holder of the payment card used to purchase your icon pass has disputed the charge, and the issuing bank has reversed the charge. As a result, the charge reversal, we have suspended your icon pass or passes, and you will not be able to use your icon passes unless and until this dispute is resolved with the issuing bank and our law enforcement. If you believe here that, yeah, that so they cancel it. It's like Altera. There's like the legit. I mean, there's like I got I got receipts.

SPEAKER_06 31:32

Right. Um, yeah, so so basically uh and none of the resorts also, none of them are selling discounted tickets, by the way. Like yeah, they're paying the whole price. There's no discounts at that. So it starts out like you were saying, Quiet 2020, like word of mouth. It's kind of like like different ski sites, uh, webs, like uh not Reddit, but like that type of like where skiers are interested in like checking out things, uh, what's what's good.

SPEAKER_02 31:57

And then it it snowballs that pow pow. Gotta shred the narbrah. That was a good one. I'll give you that one.

SPEAKER_06 32:07

Yeah, and it snowballs into a multi-year, multi-million dollar scheme. Yeah. And um there's they start out targeting just Utah resorts, and then they start targeting all, right? Mr.

SPEAKER_02 32:18

Worldwide.

SPEAKER_06 32:19

Right, right, right. Um so and and there were and again, they weren't hacking any kind of system. And what what why it wasn't necessarily raising red flags at first is because it's not unusual for like let's say the Faisal, you're gonna buy your pass, and then you're gonna buy your wife's pass, and eventually you're gonna buy your children's passes, right? So one point of contact to buy other passes, it's not a red flag, right? So, so this individual that's buying on someone's stolen credit card, it's not she's typing in all the correct information. So it's all going to John Smith's credit card, right? His address, his numbers, and everything like that. But it but then she's typing in Faisal's information and then it's getting sent to Faisal electronically. Now the other individual that's involved was uh mailing some of the the passes, and that comes into play down the road. Um yeah, so they they buy the ticket, they buy these tickets, and then the insurance, I'm sorry, the uh credit card companies block it. And now uh what ends up happening though is that um I think it was Brighton that is the is the resort that actually they're the ones that actually figured it out because they know that people will uh dispute a charge here and there, like oh, I bought this as a like a Christmas gift for a boyfriend or a Passover gift for a daughter, and you know what, daughter doesn't want to go skiing, or you know what, boyfriend and I broke up, so I'm gonna cancel it, right? So that happens. Those are one-offs. It doesn't, it doesn't, you know, not a big red flag, not an alert. But they started no the accounting department started noticing that there was this massive, like they they don't report exactly the amounts, but there's a suggestion it was in the in the figures of like $50,000. That's what kind of started catching up.

SPEAKER_02 34:01

And that's like a smaller resort, Cottonwood Canyons, like a great place. Um but they would that's like how you would do it. It's like that's a place that would figure it out. It's like small enough to where people are looking at everything. Yeah, and like a 50k swing is material. It's probably pretty consistent business.

SPEAKER_09 34:19

Yeah, exactly.

SPEAKER_06 34:20

And that's when um Jamila or Miss Green was on the nice.

SPEAKER_08 34:33

Uh they write these down or do you come up with them on the fly?

SPEAKER_06 34:36

I for this for this special occasion, I I wrote them down ahead of time. I I I was, you know, I needed to impress Faisal. You've already heard them all, you know what I mean? So yeah, so um, yeah, so they none of the none of the uh um none of the figures are actually disclosed, but it was something like fifty thousand dollars over a four-month period that they figured out that this is what was going on. So um you know, and then and you think about it, it's like who all are the victims in this? It's not only just the credit card holders that their stuff has stolen, it's the credit card companies because now they're losing those funds, right? And then it's the past, the icon epic people, the past, you know, the resorts, and it's the Faisals, even though Faisal knew what he was being summoned to.

SPEAKER_02 35:20

I didn't know it was a scam. I just had a high degree of probability that I I mean I underwrote it as this is probably a scam before doing it. Right. But at the end of the day, the crazy thing, like back when I go to like customer service, like if you call I called Epic Pass about it, and their heads are spinning, like they didn't know what's going on. It's like here, we can't tell you your pass is canceled, go fly a kite. That's honestly where I was like, you get better customers that have better customer service with a cartel than that. But then on the the icon side, they were like, Oh, well, yeah, we know about that scam. What's going on? Like, they got you, like it was kind of like, yeah, they got me. Like, I want to get anyways, but they were actually they went all the way back through and they gave me the pre-sale discounted price. This is back in November now, after I mean, I was like, okay, I'm done playing with this guy because the season's about to start. So I actually do want to pass, like to be able to ski. And that's kind of what it happened. So I ended up getting both of them back at the pre-sale discounted price. But uh, yeah, I definitely definitely was a scam. And they got several other people.

SPEAKER_06 36:34

I mean, in some respects, I'm actually surprised. I mean, good on Brighton for figuring it out, but I'm wondering if proactively, if an icon and epic now would be, it doesn't sound like it because obviously. No, they're not.

SPEAKER_02 36:47

Yeah, they're not proactively doing anything.

SPEAKER_06 36:49

You would think that they would be proactively looking at those sites and being like, hey, let's shut this down, right?

SPEAKER_02 36:56

But the the only thing they know how to do is take your credit card. Like that's all they care about.

SPEAKER_06 37:01

I mean, here, and to be truthful, like even if even let's say even if Epic and or Icon did try to go to the feds with this information, no disrespect, but like one time someone almost stole money from Brett's account. It's a long, long story, but um, his friend was uh holding uh money from a from when Brett sold his house, and Brett was investing it with his friend, and everything's legit. Like his friend, everything is like it's not it's not an a guy, it's no, it really is legit. And the guy got a got an email from Brett that was like, hey, allegedly, no, it wasn't from Brett, but it was from Brett's email. It's like hey David, uh, can you please send me you know X amount of dollars so that way I can handle this legal matter? And David, his nickname is Cracker. Yes, he is white, but that's not why his nickname is Cracker. But Brett has never never called him David. He's always like, What's up, Cracker? And Brett is never that formal. He would never have sent it in an email. He would have called Cracker and been like, hey, Cracker, I need this money. And what's the legal matter? Well, it just happens to be that Brett's uh lawyer. So then Cracker was like, Oh, he needs it for a legal matter. Like it makes sense, right? So Cracker called, and this is like on a Friday, Cracker calls Brett and is like, Hey, I have everything teed up to be wired to your account, um, but the wire won't go through until Monday or till Tuesday, I think, because it was like a holiday weekend or something like that. And he's like, So I just want to let you know, sorry, it's been a little bit delayed. And Brett got the message and he was like, What is this? And he calls Cracker, he's like, What are you talking about? He's like, Yeah, he's like, I got all your emails, and Brett's like, What emails? So someone had broken into Brett's emails. And then, but Brett never saw the emails go out because he wasn't looking at sense, right? They must have deleted or something. And anytime Cracker's email came in, it was getting diverted to this other email. So I call the feds. I was like, dude, I'm like, I have the wire information, it's like, you know, significant money. Uh, you know, this is what's going on. They're like, okay. They're like, did money transfer hands? And I'm like, no. Did he lose money? No. They're like, okay, we'll make a file. And I'm just like, Yeah, they don't give a fuck. Yeah, it's only until the money is gone so that the crime actually happened.

SPEAKER_02 39:16

I mean we gotta we gotta circle back. Yeah, we've gotta open up another case. I've got like 18 friends who got scammed. Right. I think like two of them got their passes at the end of the day.

SPEAKER_06 39:28

Yeah, so um, so yeah, so this individual, Jamila, she has pled guilty uh to uh in federal court for wire fraud conspiracy, admitting her role in orchestrating the multi-year uh uh ski pass scam. And the charge carries with it a maximum penalty of up to 20 years in prison, hefty fines, restitution for the damages. But she hasn't been sentenced as of yet. So I don't show you.

SPEAKER_02 39:54

And I message I messaged on X, one of the journalists that broke that story. Uh-huh. And I said, I have receipts, like I can send you everything. There's like 20 more of her that are still doing the same thing, but she never responded to me.

SPEAKER_06 40:08

She's like one and done.

SPEAKER_02 40:10

Yeah, she's one and done.

SPEAKER_06 40:11

Um, so then the day after she pleads guilty, one of her co-conspirators, um, his name is his last name is Rembrandt. He uh he has not, so he has an indictment against him, charges pled or charges against him, but he hasn't pled uh guilty or whatever. I don't know what his situation is. He was supposed to have a court date, I think, in January, but it looks like it got pushed out. So it's probably the rat.

SPEAKER_02 40:35

It's probably the rat.

SPEAKER_06 40:36

Uh I don't think so because he is facing I apologize to I have to look at my notes, but so he is facing conspiracy to commit wire fraud, which is the same thing that Green was charged with. Conspiracy to commit mail fraud. Remember, I said he was sending them by mail, yeah.

SPEAKER_08 40:51

I knew that was happening.

SPEAKER_06 40:52

Yeah, and aggravate aggravated identity theft and possessing 15 or more unauthorized access devices, which that means uh he was holding uh stolen credit cards and it means that he had to have basically 16 or more. So you have 16, you have 3,000, it's the same charge. So he had that aggravation aggravated charge. And then he also had a charge of identity theft, um, which can carry, can carry, no, it is a mandatory uh two-year prison term on top of any other sentence if convicted um because he's stolen someone's personal data.

SPEAKER_02 41:30

Well, let's go after them. What did this guy say? Okay, so let's get some money transacted. So we have another those are discounted prices. I'm setting up a class action, by the way. I need one more victim. So can you send the money over to him?

SPEAKER_06 41:45

If you give me the loan, I'll I'll pay you that. Um uh those are discounted prices. Do you purchase with us last or did you purchase with us last season?

SPEAKER_08 41:55

Yes. Yeah, they were cheaper with us. So he's like, now it's like false representation.

SPEAKER_06 42:03

So I'm gonna say yes, I do.

SPEAKER_02 42:04

Do you work for say, oh, do you work for uh uh icon?

SPEAKER_06 42:10

Um this is through icon, right? That's what I'm gonna say. This is through icon, right?

SPEAKER_02 42:13

I mean it's like what are the chances I have this guy's number, I have a full text thread that I'll give you all the screenshots on and the receipts just because I think one, it'll amuse you under Friday night when you get home and just see.

SPEAKER_06 42:28

And then now I I personally think that Green was the one who was probably snitching because she only got one felony charge.

SPEAKER_02 42:37

So I personally think around she's already pled out.

SPEAKER_06 42:42

I think she saw that there was an avalanche of evidence against her.

SPEAKER_10 42:50

She's here all week, guys.

SPEAKER_06 42:51

Um, but I think that she saw, you know, what was coming, and she knew that I don't want to be in prison forever. So my guess is that she bent the knee so she could get a sweet a better deal.

SPEAKER_08 43:04

Damn right. They put that 20 years in front of her and she started singing. Boy, this is that.

SPEAKER_02 43:08

Yeah, exactly. Like a canary. It's like, oh, and I got that guy. Well, my guy's still on the loose. Right. I haven't gotten to him yet.

SPEAKER_09 43:17

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 43:18

I mean, that's pretty, that's pretty interesting. But I mean, that there's a like that's like a legit scam that is obviously still going on. Yeah. Like today.

SPEAKER_06 43:26

So he said, okay, please text each login.

SPEAKER_02 43:29

Okay, cool. With my password question mark, he's getting he's going deeper. He's always just wanted the pass number last time.

SPEAKER_06 43:37

The thing that's crazy about this is that he doesn't even know who I am. And he's just like trusting that I like I Yeah, that's that's insane.

SPEAKER_02 43:44

Yeah. No, I knew I knew. I mean, it's like I mean, I didn't know you were gonna bring this up. It just I like I was like, I was thinking because I watched y'all's show, like I'm the 13th subscriber.

SPEAKER_06 43:54

No, actually, actually, David Lee, my friend David Lee, is the 13th?

SPEAKER_02 43:59

Yeah, he's all. But he was uh but yeah, but I I mean that you brought it up and that I have like the the guy is still he's on the run. He's still on the run.

SPEAKER_06 44:07

So he said um yes, just like last season.

SPEAKER_02 44:09

Okay, cool. Uh but you know there's like legal there's legal ways these corporations are doing this stuff as well. Like what do you guys think happens? Like let's say you have a million uh Delta or Marriott Bonvoy hotel reward points. Like what do you what do you think happens when you die?

SPEAKER_06 44:29

Well, they absorb them back.

SPEAKER_02 44:30

Yeah, so essentially like all these companies, like what they what they do. I think actually American Airlines, don't quote me on this, is the only one that if you die, like you could have a death certificate here and like they want all the documentation and they'll let you transfer the miles to a spouse. But they literally like they take it as a uh an accounting, it triggers a revenue event. And so what happens is is you have these points, and they want these are this is like legalized, you know, like cartel activity when you start to look at it. If like or actually a better way of thinking about it, these are like they're banks that have all these points that they keep issuing to you that they hope you don't ever use them, and then the minute you die, like they go and just wipe them out and take them in as revenue.

SPEAKER_06 45:18

Well, if you think about it, also you're paying an annual like you know, for the cards and here and so you should have some kind of ownership over them. But I will say this I'm my understanding is in like divorce proceedings, there are fights over points.

SPEAKER_02 45:30

Oh, a hundred a hundred percent.

SPEAKER_06 45:31

So people will be like, I want the American Express points, and they're like, No, they're mine.

SPEAKER_02 45:35

And then I was advising a friend that had this exact thing, like during the divorce, like they were trying to peg the value of that, and I want the miles to go here, and it's like buy me flights, and then you know, it's like one's buying flights for their boyfriend, the other one's buying flights for their new girlfriend.

SPEAKER_08 45:49

I mean, this episode of rich people like this.

SPEAKER_02 45:54

But let's say you're in prison and you're waiting, let's say you're in prison and you have a parent, you have a parent who's saving for 20 years. I don't know how long we were there for like 20 years to go on the dream vacation. The dream vacation when you come out, and then they like pass away, like you can't even use them. Like, but they were saving for me to have the the points to go on vacation. No, that's a revenue, that's a revenue generating event. Sorry for your loss. That's like what they do.

SPEAKER_08 46:22

I'm going back to prison after I take a trip down to American Airlines. Y'all got me photo. Allegedly. No, you didn't write that one.

SPEAKER_02 46:38

Exactly. She's on fire on that one. But yeah, but my my point is like there's like legal, what I deem them to be like corporate scams that are happening. Like these points and different things like that. And I just, I mean, I'm still surprised that it's a lot of people.

SPEAKER_06 46:52

I honestly think, and I I've I've tried to write don't steal this people, but my idea, I've I think I've told you the joke on um gift cards. So like I have this concept, and I'm not saying this is funny, this is just rough drop. We don't know where this is gonna be. But like, no, but I'm saying like gift cards, like I I'm like the joke is like, okay, so my brother's birthday is coming up. I'm gonna buy him a $25 gift card to uh yeah, exactly. And then guess what? My birthday is in May. Guess what I'm getting in May? $25 gift card to Dairy Queen. And it's because you're just basically passing the buck. And I think to I mean, I think honestly, that that's kind of what they're hoping for, is that they're hoping you never use it, right? So, and then like then my grandma who has you know now passed, she gave me a gift card to an in uh an establishment that was out of business, and it was $20. But still, I was like, you know what? I would rather her give me a $20 gift card to a business that's out of business than give me. This is part of my joke. I am uh trademarking it here. Um but like but like part of me was like, I prefer a $20 gift card to a business that's out of business than giving me a $50 gift card to Neiman Marcus because I'm definitely coming out of pocket.

SPEAKER_02 48:04

Oh yeah, you're there. There's nothing like that. Like there's nothing in $50 for Neiman Marcus.

SPEAKER_06 48:09

Yeah, I might get a shopping bag with a shopping bag with like, you know, a sample or something. A sample?

SPEAKER_03 48:17

Yeah, shopping bag is like Neeman Marcus.

SPEAKER_06 48:21

Okay, Nordstrom, I don't know.

SPEAKER_02 48:23

Like high-end retail stores. That's it. Yeah, that makes sense. She's trying to be all bougie now. Oh, I'm so bougie. She's about to buy that.

SPEAKER_14 48:30

She got it, she saved money on the her epic and icon package.

SPEAKER_10 48:34

She got it to blow now. That's right.

SPEAKER_14 48:39

Shopping. It's like girl math.

SPEAKER_06 48:42

I can now afford a cute outfit or two.

SPEAKER_14 48:45

Exactly.

SPEAKER_06 48:52

Right. So but I I honestly think that the gift card is a scam.

SPEAKER_02 48:56

They do. They so they call it like the so one, it it sits on a liability. So this is how crazy like the financial world is. So you have these airlines, hotel companies, these sit as a liability, like uh in their financials. And I can get super geeked out on financial, but I'll keep it like high level.

SPEAKER_06 49:15

Maybe this is where we explain that Faisal went to this business school that's called it's on the East Coast, it's in Boston, as they say. It's called Harper.

SPEAKER_03 49:23

Maybe you've heard of it.

SPEAKER_06 49:27

I know smart people.

SPEAKER_02 49:30

My lifetime's wicked smart. Anyways, but they go and it and so it sits there as a liability. But they're actually the actual rewards programs are worth more than the company, oftentimes, like the value of them. And then what they do is when you die, or they like they'll go, like there's another hotel company. I won't say who they are because I still work within the industry, but allegedly, so what they do is they basically go, let's say uh your points are worth $100, right? So you basically have you invested in your buddy's restaurant and you have a hundred dollars a year to go spend at his restaurant. So year one, you're like, bet, like here we go. I got a steak, a salad, fries, give me the large soda, and a scoop of ice cream, right? Every year that this keeps progressing, like you get one thing less, one thing less, one thing less. Like towards the last year, it's like you can only buy a salad for a hundred bucks, right? They just keep devaluing what the the reward that you have is worth. So you're buying less and less. And then they go off on a tangent and say, like, now you get to buy something that's salad adjacent. Like it's not even a real salad anymore. But they it's literally, they it's legally, they can devalue it at any time. So you could have something that's worth 100 and be like, nah, it's worth 20 bucks now. And you're like, no, but fuck that. Like, uh like if it's worth $100, it's like, yeah, we changed our pricing. And that's how it all works. Like Hyatt, Marriott, here, the airlines, they all do it and they totally screw you. So the only thing I could say is, don't save them for a rainy day. Use the darn things because like they're gonna take them one way or another.

SPEAKER_08 51:10

You give me a $20 gift card, I'm using it that night. I'll go out of my way to use that bits. You want an icon pass?

SPEAKER_10 51:24

We find out.

SPEAKER_06 51:26

We find out it's actually the fiesle that's like this. It's auto-populated.

SPEAKER_14 51:33

They jeep out your newborn.

SPEAKER_06 51:37

This explains everything. Exactly.

SPEAKER_14 51:39

A whistleblower he figures it out, he's like, I thought I saw him texting you back.

SPEAKER_08 51:48

I'm not a snitch. I wouldn't tell you. Exactly. Exactly.

SPEAKER_06 51:51

Okay, so now that that has been wrapped up, what do you have for us today?

SPEAKER_08 52:00

I ironically, more rich people problem. Yeah. So uh did you know that people race pigeons? No, this is a legit thing. Like they legitimately will like race pigeons. Like for one example, there was they have like a pigeon race across the fucking Grand Canyon.

SPEAKER_06 52:19

Never heard of that.

SPEAKER_08 52:20

Yeah. So they they train these fucking pigeons and they race them.

SPEAKER_06 52:25

Is it Mike Tyson that's training them? Did you know that's how he trained? I do know that he loves pigeons.

SPEAKER_08 52:31

Yeah, yeah. I I doubt any of his pigeons are racer pigeons. I mean, he's got the money for it.

SPEAKER_06 52:36

I thought you were gonna say racist pigeons.

SPEAKER_08 52:38

I was like, what the hell? They might be a little racist. I don't know about a racer. Did you think that's what he's gonna say there? They're Mike Tyson's pigeons. There's no telling.

SPEAKER_04 52:51

They got little tattoos on their faces.

SPEAKER_08 52:54

Uh but people started stealing them. Like they're stealing the racing page. Stealing the pigeons. I bet. So they they were like uh they were going so far as to like break into people's houses or or like wherever they're storing the pigeons, and all the way up to where they were training other pigeons to intercept them mid-flight during the race and like throw them off course a little bit, and then they fucking swoop in like Team Rocket, that's a Pokemon reference, uh, and snatch them out of the sky. Investments. Uh so with birds, I mean, going from like $10,000-ish dollars all the way up to like there was one bird called Armando that sold for $1.2 million. What? Yeah. $1.2 million. And I think that like that was when the uh they're actually called the pigeon moping.

SPEAKER_02 53:53

Pigeon flying, or what? Is it super is the same bolt? Like the end of the bad.

SPEAKER_06 54:04

Uh with Tony, you have to use cartoon references. Okay. Uh like uh speedy Gonzalez.

SPEAKER_08 54:10

Yeah, there we go.

SPEAKER_06 54:12

Amy. Um like the roadrunner. Exactly.

SPEAKER_08 54:16

I didn't know people raised pigeons.

SPEAKER_02 54:17

I mean, I don't yeah, that that's news to me. I I have like my mind automatically starts going, like, how do you breed these motor?

SPEAKER_08 54:24

Yeah, that that was another question that I like how do you train a pigeon?

SPEAKER_06 54:28

To fly straight too, like not get off course.

SPEAKER_08 54:30

To do anything.

SPEAKER_06 54:31

Well, they do have they do have messenger pigeons that you could like tie a message to their leg and then they fly.

SPEAKER_08 54:37

Right, and I I I assume that that's like pretty similar uh training. But like my other thing is like I guess maybe they would put a GPS tracker on them, but that's the only way.

SPEAKER_02 54:52

I mean, if they're gonna be able to do that. Yeah, but I mean if they're gonna be able to get it. They're getting stolen though.

SPEAKER_06 54:56

Oh like an anklet, like uh House of Rust has and ravens are really smart birds too. Like ravens like can solve puzzles, and I think crows, like if you if you leave a trinket like for a crow, they'll bring a trinket to you, kind of a thing. So I know that there are they have birds. Yeah, they're not just bird brains, but they I mean, we're at like seven edges. I don't know.

SPEAKER_02 55:20

The pigeon thing, I would always be like, don't pigeon, don't be the pigeon, like don't pigeonhole me. Like, don't be a bring some value. You're just coming here telling me messages, like I don't need a summary, I need a solution. Don't pigeonhole me, don't pigeonhole me.

SPEAKER_06 55:32

But I'm just saying, like, I think you could train them. It's just I've never heard of them being raced. That's wild.

SPEAKER_08 55:36

Yeah, I had no idea.

SPEAKER_06 55:37

And then, okay, so you I've never been, but to the middle, you you you know my friends Eric and Pree. Right. So our friends went to Qatar and they were going through the bazaars there or whatever. And I guess talk about rich people problems. They the people were selling hawks there. Falcons. Falcons, that's what it was. Falcons.

SPEAKER_07 55:54

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_06 55:54

It's like a no, but so so that's like that's your symbol in Qatar of how wealthy you are, is like the the level of falcon that you have. So we're not even like now pretty bad. Yeah, we're talking about millions.

SPEAKER_02 56:09

I've got I've got a better one for you with these falcons. Like, you know how you can have like an emotional support or like a service animal? Yeah, like these there's people that bring their falcons onto these Emirates flights. Like they're allowed to bring them, like, and they have like seats for the falcons that are flying to like wherever they're going. Rich people shit. Falcon game strong out there. But so are they catching these people that steal them, or what's like the black market on like a stolen pigeon? Maybe we should ask our boy, the epic iPod. Ask him if he's got any stolen pigeons.

SPEAKER_06 56:42

You know what I should you know what would be kind of funny? What if I asked him if he has any like discounted lightning passes or something like that? Do you have Disney other discount? Yeah. I'll tell you this. If he gets on Disney, Disney will shut it down and he'll be in jail.

SPEAKER_14 56:59

Yeah, Disney's legit.

SPEAKER_06 57:00

Like there's no Disney is like Disney. Right. Did you see that people are trying to um sneak children into Disneyland, like in the stroller?

SPEAKER_10 57:10

Oh, really?

SPEAKER_06 57:10

Yeah, like I saw this thing at least uh like recently where they would like have one kid in the stroller and then another kid like in the back, like underneath recorded. Yeah, and they're like holding it together until they got through, and then like they get to the bathroom and let them out. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 57:27

I mean, I mean, it I mean, it it is so ungodly expensive. Like, I don't I do not even understand how families can afford to go. I know. And you have like multiple kids, and then at least I like they let you bring some food in. Like, yeah, but if you go there without any food or anything, they're gonna spend hundreds. Yeah, it's easy. It's like a thousand dollars a day. Yeah, what that is, like who can afford that stuff?

SPEAKER_06 57:50

It's one of the things I think that they do is that like the season cost is they'll finance. So I think that that's possibly why you'll see like some families uh because I think it's like a thing in SoCal. I mean, if you're in SoCal, it's like yeah, it's expensive, but like if you live nearby, it's kind of a cool thing to do, like after work as a family. If I mean, you know, so I think it can if you're doing it in monthly payments, it could be probably more affordable, you know.

SPEAKER_02 58:14

But I'm not yeah, Disneyland's legit. I'm not hey, it's just like so expensive. Yeah, that's right. They crack down like that price.

SPEAKER_06 58:22

Yeah, if you try to discount anything in Disney, Mickey gonna find you.

SPEAKER_08 58:26

Oh, yeah, you're going under the Mickey jail, I promise. They're not fucking around.

SPEAKER_02 58:30

No, they're not at all.

SPEAKER_08 58:32

Yeah, they're they will pull up on they might be like IRS, Disney.

SPEAKER_14 58:39

I actually actually had this esthetician. I was getting like a facial demo boy. Of course. Her ex-boyfriend, her ex-boyfriend was a Disney character. And you know, you knew I had to double click on that one. I'm like, sorry. Did he ever bring it home?

SPEAKER_06 58:56

But when you say character, let's be specific, was he like a prince charming with no mask on? Oh, jeez. Okay.

SPEAKER_14 59:03

Yeah, like the full he was goofy. Yeah, like and so yeah, he was. Is that kind of like a thing? You know?

SPEAKER_03 59:11

I just remember when I was home.

SPEAKER_06 59:15

When I was in wait, you know, oh yeah, wait. Goofy, they okay. There's been a that this is interesting. I've heard that goofy could be a dog, could be a cow. Some people, because Pluto is the dog for sure.

SPEAKER_14 59:27

Goofy's a cow.

SPEAKER_06 59:28

I've he's a cow?

SPEAKER_02 59:30

Yeah, really?

SPEAKER_06 59:30

Yeah. I I Are you serious?

SPEAKER_02 59:32

Yeah, all these years. Man, I didn't know that.

SPEAKER_06 59:37

Right?

SPEAKER_02 59:38

That's crazy. Why?

SPEAKER_06 59:40

I always thought he was a dog.

SPEAKER_08 59:42

What made you think he was a dog?

SPEAKER_06 59:44

I don't know. He looks like a dog.

SPEAKER_02 59:45

He has like the ears of the dog.

SPEAKER_08 59:46

Pluto is the dog.

SPEAKER_06 59:47

Right, I know, but I didn't know. Okay.

SPEAKER_02 59:50

I didn't know. Two gets one ear. Yeah, exactly. I mean, I thought I thought if somebody would have said gun your head was.

SPEAKER_00 1:00:02

He in fact did not know the important shit as Goofy is in fact a dog.

SPEAKER_02 1:00:08

I've started, I've I've started a new pigeon website in case you're interested.

SPEAKER_06 1:00:15

This could be a new Disney movie pigeon racing.

SPEAKER_10 1:00:21

Come see my pigeon racing. See how far she can go. Let it go. Let it go.

SPEAKER_02 1:00:34

That's from my niece. Heard that on repeat. That's how I know that. That's where it stops. Yeah, that is a pretty crazy story. I don't know how you found out about that one.

SPEAKER_08 1:00:43

Uh I've somebody suggested it to me. I was talking about the podcast. I forget who it was, but they were like, you should check out the pigeon mafia. Oh no.

SPEAKER_02 1:00:52

I mean, it makes total sense because they race everything. Yeah, I guess if something can go or they fight. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_07 1:00:59

That's what Michael Vick got in trouble for. That's like sad. Yeah, we don't do violence here though. No, exactly.

SPEAKER_06 1:01:05

So the pigeon is still uh in flight, if you could say, as the crow flies.

SPEAKER_08 1:01:14

As the pigeon flies.

SPEAKER_02 1:01:15

But I don't like it, but if it's the fastest pigeon, like the these pigeons, like a million dollars, the most expensive one.

SPEAKER_08 1:01:21

Uh 1.2 is the most expensive.

SPEAKER_02 1:01:23

But I mean, like, where can you bet on like fan duel or something like that with these things? Like you kind of like one thing I have questions. I have so many questions.

SPEAKER_08 1:01:31

One thing I do know about gambling is that if there's a fucking uh anything, you can gamble on it. Yeah. Yeah, I guarantee like if it's something like pigeon racing or like didn't you say the dude was gambling on whether Maduro was gonna get on? Yeah, so he's he's actually been charged. He's been charged, yeah. He's been charged. So like you can literally bet on anything.

SPEAKER_06 1:01:59

So oh sorry, so last thing. Um, so they that this is still an ongoing scenario of racing pigeons.

SPEAKER_08 1:02:05

So there's no like it's a it's it's hard for them to catch them. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:02:09

I mean, is it illegal to race pigeons? I don't think so. Oh, yeah. I mean, I don't see that.

SPEAKER_08 1:02:15

I didn't dig too much into this part, but there is apparently an underground pigeon racing scene.

SPEAKER_07 1:02:22

Like whatever's yeah. I have like it's too fast, too fierce. Yeah, exactly what I was about to say. A pigeon in an Isaiah sky.

SPEAKER_06 1:02:31

I I see it as, and I know it's not fur, but like too fast, too furus.

SPEAKER_08 1:02:43

So they're hard to catch because they they would just swap out the bird. Oh they would break in fucking and all they had to identify him was a little tag on their hands. Yeah, that's what I thought it was.

SPEAKER_02 1:02:54

They would just anklet thing.

SPEAKER_08 1:02:57

They would just switch it out. Uh so as far as I know, they were getting away with it.

SPEAKER_06 1:03:02

So the scam is that they were stealing the birds.

SPEAKER_07 1:03:05

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:03:06

Well, first of all, that there's an underground racing scene. Well, I mean, but that's not the I'm I'm so I'm going deep on this thing too.

SPEAKER_08 1:03:13

I'm not even gonna lie. I can't imagine like what what what's the law? What what's the law they would be breaking by racing pigeons?

SPEAKER_02 1:03:20

I don't I mean it's just aren't you try aren't they like the rats of the air? They are they seagulls. No, those are seagulls.

SPEAKER_08 1:03:26

Pigeons pigeons ain't so bad. Pigeons are cool. Seagulls are fucking I don't know.

SPEAKER_02 1:03:30

I don't mess with animals in a bad way. I'm a lover, not a fighter when it comes to animals, but I don't know.

SPEAKER_06 1:03:37

I've seen you put down a piece of meat here and there.

SPEAKER_02 1:03:40

I'm gonna well I've got a I got a funny story. Like we'll be one time we'll be the judges of that. Yeah, I came out, it was like I had a brush up uh with law enforcement in the in Austin. So story for another day. But let's just say when I came out of there, I you know I I go and like a bird just shit on me. I was like, I guess it's good luck. That's what they say, right? Yeah, but that's where you're like, it's damn bird, but they always are shit on you.

SPEAKER_10 1:04:11

It was a pigeon.

SPEAKER_06 1:04:13

Well, so uh we went to the ducks game last night and they have these flying ducks at the stadium. Like it's these um, like they're basically like drones. Quack, quack. That's right. But they're like drones and they look like ducks. There's three of them, and their arms move or their wings move, and it's amazing, honestly. But I think that they should take it to the next level and that they poop out t-shirts.

unknown 1:04:39

Oh my god.

SPEAKER_06 1:04:40

Because they're like flying above you, and it's kind of like, oh my gosh, like what's the case? Oh, it's actually flying above you. Yeah, they're flying above you.

SPEAKER_02 1:04:45

So what do they spit it out? Or what is it?

SPEAKER_06 1:04:47

No, I'm saying you should poop out.

SPEAKER_02 1:04:48

No, I know, but what's the current delivery? They're not doing anything, it's just they're just flying around.

SPEAKER_06 1:04:52

They fly around before they take the ice. So before the first period, before second period, before third period, they have them flying around.

SPEAKER_09 1:04:59

That's pretty sweet.

SPEAKER_06 1:05:00

It is it's actually really cool. Um, but I was saying like to make it cooler is that they pooped out like white t-shirts, right? Wouldn't that be kind of funny? Because when you see an animal or a bird flying above you, your first thought is like, ah.

SPEAKER_02 1:05:12

You know what is crazy though? Have you ever go to like any of those games like where they're like they're like any sporting event like that where they're throwing out like the free like the free t-shirt? I mean, people will go crazy for like a POS triple X extra large, like it's not gonna fit anybody.

SPEAKER_09 1:05:29

I've seen it.

SPEAKER_02 1:05:29

And they go nuts, like trying to fight people over it. It's a literally it's crazy.

SPEAKER_06 1:05:33

I've always wondered if anybody gets hurt with them like when they do those guns, you know, they're like shooting the guns. I think they go up high enough that they don't, but yeah, it's just a t-shirt.

SPEAKER_08 1:05:41

It is a hurt very much. It's like a potato launcher kind of like Yeah, but they're not like super tightly wrapped or anything, so it's not like hard when it hits you. We should try it the next time.

SPEAKER_06 1:05:55

First on on a on a business segment, like what you're saying, people go nuts. Over these t-shirts. One thing that when I was younger, I did do a report on a female entrepreneur, and I picked Estée Lauder. She's like a mogul when it was oh, I did it again.

SPEAKER_12 1:06:14

But anyways, it's a key term.

SPEAKER_06 1:06:17

So um, but I did that was not intentional. Uh so she uh she was like basically like a pseudoscientist with her uncle, her uncle's a scientist, and they would create all these like faithful creams or whatever. And her her trick was, and this worked for her, and this got her like on the board, was she would give away a free lipstick with a purchase. But people would line up because women love a free lipstick, and it'd be like it doesn't even have to be your shade, but for whatever reason, like they tried it with like blush, they tried it with perfume, and it wasn't as successful. So, like what you're saying, like the t-shirt could be an ugly t-shirt, any size, but it could be any color lipstick, it could be matte, it could be glossy, but people love a free lipstick or ladies.

SPEAKER_02 1:07:00

Yeah, people love tchotchkis, it's yeah, crazy. They go around like psychos, like at these trade show events, and it's like, oh, a stress ball. And it's like people love free shit. Yeah, they just love free shit. And it's like junk. You know what I mean? Like literally from China here, you slap a logo on it, and it's like a stress ball, hand sanitizer, this thing, like a spiral notebook. You know, and it's like people like free shit. Exactly. Yeah, I mean, we all like free shit. I'm not I'm trust guilt guilty as truck.

SPEAKER_08 1:07:30

I think I'd rather I think sat outside for like a and you put you put yourself in a scenario where you're like, I would use this.

SPEAKER_14 1:07:39

Yeah, exactly. And you never do it.

SPEAKER_08 1:07:43

Oh, hell yeah.

SPEAKER_06 1:07:44

I think I would rather take that one day. I think I'd rather take that stress ball and throw it in the trash than um take the crusty Snickers bar that's there, like the mini one. And then you like take a bite, you're like, ah, I just didn't get it. Yeah, it's been this is from like three conferences ago. Yeah, exactly. It is pretty crazy.

SPEAKER_08 1:08:03

Yeah, I'm not taking a Snickers bar from nobody. We've had that conversation. It's not your jam. It's a bad guy. It's a it's a it's a prison joke that he has. Oh, really?

SPEAKER_06 1:08:13

Yeah. You'll see it on Saturday, May 9th, if you come to the show. So it's a free show, everybody. Come over now. Huntington Beach. Huntington Beach Elks Lodge. Yep, that's right.

SPEAKER_02 1:08:26

It's on Saturday. The ninth on Saturday?

SPEAKER_06 1:08:28

Saturday the ninth, yeah. Yeah, the night before Mother's Day.

SPEAKER_02 1:08:31

It's gonna be a pretty good show.

SPEAKER_06 1:08:32

Which I thought would be a pretty chill night, but it turns out a couple of the bothers I know have plans, so I'm like, that's cool. Motherfucker.

SPEAKER_07 1:08:41

Give that guy free tickets in exchange for tell him you'll trade. Anyways.

SPEAKER_02 1:08:47

All right.

SPEAKER_06 1:08:48

Well, well, thank you so much for this episode. Thanks for joining us.

SPEAKER_02 1:08:51

Thank you guys for having me. That was fun. Yeah, it was a pleasure. Real good time. Yeah, interesting company. Interesting little curveball you threw. And uh we're gonna we're gonna share the receipts. We have to, like the text messages with sure. We'll we'll circle back on whether you fall for the scam or not.

SPEAKER_06 1:09:06

That's right. And I, you know, like part of the show.

SPEAKER_02 1:09:09

It's like an investment. Like we've got to do it. I feel like investigative like reporter.

SPEAKER_06 1:09:13

I feel like I need to get his Instagram handle so I can add it to and then we'll be like, what?

SPEAKER_02 1:09:18

Yeah, exactly. I'm curious if he's using the same pay, you know, we gotta ask him like which PayPal or which uh which Venmo or Zell that he wants and see if he's got the same same people in the So wait, which uh method of payment? Yeah, how should I pay you?

SPEAKER_06 1:09:35

Uh how should I pay you? That's probably nicer. Like more more hostile. Like cool.

SPEAKER_02 1:09:40

I'm like which method of what's the method of payment that you would like to receive your That's how you know I'm a snitch. I'm like, uh like somebody start texting me that. I'm like, okay.

SPEAKER_06 1:09:54

I need a couple typos, I think, in here too.

SPEAKER_02 1:09:56

Like it's okay. Smart officer. Take me to jail.

SPEAKER_06 1:10:02

Well, anyways, thank you so much again for coming. Um, we'll have to have you back to see how this works out.

SPEAKER_02 1:10:07

Oh, absolutely. Thank you, thank you. All right, pleasure. Thank you all.

SPEAKER_06 1:10:10

And thank you to the 13 subscribers. Let's make it 20. How about that?

SPEAKER_02 1:10:14

We're about to pop. We're gonna we're gonna pop. We're gonna promote this thing. That's my request to you.

SPEAKER_06 1:10:18

Let's let's get to 20. Let's just, you know, humble 20.

SPEAKER_02 1:10:21

That's all.

SPEAKER_06 1:10:21

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:10:22

Simple request. It's the little things. We'll give you a free stress follow. Like and subscribe. Like, follow, subscribe. Bye, guys.

SPEAKER_14 1:10:33

Bye.