Episode 12 - Parenting: The Toughest Job In The World

🧠 How do you show up for your kids when you’re running on empty yourself?

In this episode of Life’s Bumps and Bruises, Joel and Luke dive into the beautifully chaotic, guilt-ridden, love-filled world of parenting. From the daily juggle of work, boundaries, and tantrums to the pressure of always wanting to “get it right,” this conversation explores what it really means to raise kids while trying to stay grounded as an adult.

They talk about how children mirror what they see — not what they’re told — and the challenge of staying calm when life feels anything but. It’s an honest look at how parents can unintentionally pass down stress, how to repair those moments of disconnection, and why self-awareness might be the most powerful parenting tool of all.

🎙 This episode is for you if you’re into:

• Real talk about the highs and lows of parenting
• Setting boundaries without guilt
• Why kids reflect the energy we bring into the room
• Learning to respond instead of react
• Letting go of perfection and finding connection instead
• Honest laughs about the chaos of raising little humans

💬 Got thoughts or want to share your own story?

We’d love to hear from you. Reach out anytime:

📬lifesbumpsbruises@gmail.com

📲 Instagram: @lifesbumpsandbruises

📘 Facebook: Life’s Bumps and Bruises

🎧 New episodes drop every Tuesday — let’s normalise the conversation, one real chat at a time.

Credits:

The Inspiration by Keys of Moon | https://soundcloud.com/keysofmoon

Attribution 4.0 International (CC BY 4.0)

https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by/4.0/

Music promoted by https://www.chosic.com/free-music/all/

Transcript

SPEAKER_07 0:04

Life's full of bumps, bruises, and emotional puffs. Bump shell shovel, just a bloke is battle, anxiety, and depression. Remember, look at the ticket. Castle and cabbage on the cows in my chaos. Each week we talk real life, anxiety, overwhelm, family stuff. And as morning as we're getting at a bit, it feels like a win. Plus, this is what's bumps and bruises when we call it here. Hello and welcome to episode 12, Luke. Can you believe that?

SPEAKER_02 0:46

Can you believe 12 already? 12. We haven't been kicked off the air yet.

SPEAKER_07 0:49

That's because no one listens. We're not so big that we've got a cancel culture. So that's okay. I heard you did some coaching this weekend, did you?

SPEAKER_03 1:00

Yeah, last week. Um, for the whole week we're up in Sydney for uh what they call the Tasman Cup. So there's a couple teams from Men Z come over. Um lost the grand final, unfortunately. Um so it was a tournament. Yeah, full tournament. What's the tournament called? Uh was called the Tasman Cut. Tasman Cup. So it's under 16's age group. Uh my son played in it and I coached uh last minute uh ring in coach. Um last minute ring in coach. Yeah, the assistant coach couldn't go, unfortunately. But um, so I I I filled in. Uh it was good, it was a good tournament.

SPEAKER_07 1:32

Nice.

SPEAKER_03 1:32

You could mate.

SPEAKER_07 1:33

Uh oh, thanks. If you're just joining us for the first time, welcome to Lost Bumps and Bruises, by the way. I'm Joel Sheldon, and sitting across to me as always is Luke Lettet. Um last week we spoke to Mitch Johnson, the first episode of Being Human. It was an awesome episode.

SPEAKER_03 1:46

Yeah, it was good. It was good fun to have him in here, actually.

SPEAKER_07 1:48

Yeah, he's a good fella, isn't he? Yeah. We'll just recap that one for you. If you haven't heard it, go back and listen to it. That was episode 11, which was Being Human with Mitch Johnson. Uh, Mitch is a cricketer, coach, teacher, he's a dad. And we sat down with him for an honest conversation about grief, resilience, and what it means to keep showing up when life hits hard. Um, what else he opened up about losing his father Michael to pancreatic cancer and sharing what those final moments looked like, which was pretty powerful, and then how that reshaped his mental health and the ripple effect of grief, family, sport, and identity from there. Um it was a pretty cool episode.

SPEAKER_01 2:22

It was.

SPEAKER_07 2:22

I um I enjoyed it. So that chat goes beyond loss and exploring what strength really looks like, the pressure men face at times to hold it together and how connection, vulnerability, and community helps us heal. Uh so go back and listen to that one if you haven't listened to it. Um, keep an eye out on social media. There's clips going up this week of that one as well that'll sort of lure you in a little bit. So check out Instagram and Facebook under Life's Bumps and Bruises. Just on that, if you do have a question or a small win or a topic or anything that you'd like us to unpack, as always, send us an email at lifespumpsbruises at gmail.com or Instagram and Facebook under the same name, um, which is life's bumps and bruises, which I've now said 15 times in two minutes, like hey uh we uh we got a new country. We do. Do you know what it is? No. Okay, guess. You're very good at guessing. Uh I actually don't know. Russia. Russia. Yeah, Putin himself. Oh yeah. Putin yourself. Geez, we might get worse than canceled if I mention Putin. Two involves. Um that's cool. That's really cool. It is cool. So that's we're up to seven countries now. That's great. Now a lot of them are just 0.3. So I don't know if it's someone I don't know what classifies as I don't know, a stat. Does someone click on it and listen two seconds? They have to listen to an episode. I've got no idea, but um, that's pretty cool. That is cool. Thank you. Yeah, thank you. Uh what else have I got to tell you? I haven't got many stories for you this weekend. Actually, I do. I've got one. I uh, as you know, I've secured Ash's day one tickets uh on the 26th, which is Boxing Day at the MCG, which would be huge. So I was um lucky you very lucky, yeah. So I'll go with my neighbour, I think. Uh, but I was um yeah, I was sort of I don't know, dancing with the gods a little bit because I obviously had to be here at a certain time and then I logged in this morning and you wanted to do this at 10, and tickets went on sale at 10, and I'm like, uh, and you had another session later on today. And so I logged in and then I got in the virtual queue of four and a half thousand people, and I thought, well, I might as well just start moving and driving. And I thought, if this goes from four and a half thousand to thirty, I'm gonna have to just swerve off the road and pull over here. But I um so I started in the queue at my home near the airport, and by the time I got to your place here to do this, I was um I was ready to go and we got them, so that was awesome.

SPEAKER_03 4:34

Lucky you, man. Lucky you.

SPEAKER_07 4:36

Yeah, pretty excited. So that's one of my wants to be.

SPEAKER_03 4:37

If you're some jealous people out there, I reckon.

SPEAKER_07 4:39

Yeah, well, it's gonna be a rip-year. So the ashes are obviously a huge cricketing event, um, and yeah, having England in town for Boxing Day. I go to Boxing Day every year, but this is particularly special, so um, this will be it'll be bums on seats, must watch TV, I reckon. Nice. Uh what else can I tell you? How my career's cancelled.

SPEAKER_03 4:58

Oh, yeah, how'd that go?

SPEAKER_07 5:00

Uh I thought the guy was terrific. Yep. I thought I could have been better. Oh, really? Yeah, I got I got um I think I probably told you this, but I uh I got a bit overwhelmed, it's fair to say. There was a lot of information and a lot of things that I could do, and I um I'll share the strong report with you that came through, but it tested what you're good at. Mine came up as you know creativity and enterprising and social or something like that with my three.

SPEAKER_02 5:27

Which is really interesting considering it matched the strengths that you had in the Gulf strengths.

SPEAKER_07 5:32

Yeah. And then I can tell you now because I've done it, but and then from that you had to pick sort of five or so careers that you could go through and and then investigate further. And they had this thing called uh ONET or online net or something that's developed by Stanford that you can click on and it gives you a day in the life of and what the actual tasks look like. So you can actually get into the nuts and bolts of what each career is. But it was, yeah. So five careers that I sort of listed down to potentially explore. I'm gonna try to think of it now, but I don't know, it was like graphic designer, broadcast announcer, uh chef, something else, and something else, I think. Um yeah, but I I don't know if I'm getting yeah, a lot of it then came along with all this further training that you need to do, and I think that's where I probably freaked out. Like I just didn't, I don't feel I've got the capacity to go back and do four years of uni or two years of TAFE for the young family and all that, and that's probably sent me spiraling a little bit. But um, yeah, it's a podcast about life, spumps, and bruises. I'm just letting you know it had a couple of rough days, but as always, I turned to my old man and he actually settled me pretty well and just said, Why can't you just live life a little bit at the moment and see what unfolds? You've done that as an exploratory sort of research, you don't have to do anything with it, which is exactly what you've told me. Yeah, just saying, just saying it's what they pay you the big bucks. But um, look, I'm glad I've got it there. And and then, if nothing else, it's got my mind spinning on other things. There was a job that popped up for the Starlight Foundation, which I was really interested in. So they had a thing called the Experience Producer, uh, where you go in and on a shoestring budget, basically, but you basically try to make cancer um kids' lives better by doing different things for them and helping them out. And to be honest, that's a job I would do for free. So, you know, if you could no matter how bad or good the money is, and I think the money would be pretty terrible from the reports I've read, that that would be something that would fill my cup up. And as you talk about what do you want to spend your minutes doing, that would be something that would make me feel really good. So if nothing came out of the strong and the careers counselling, but that led me to this kind of rock. Oh, sorry, that's right. One of the things was art director. So obviously I've got an artistic background. I'm like, well, I don't even know what the fuck an art director is. Do you know what an art director is? Uh they direct art. I I guess so, yeah. So I went onto this ONET or online net. Um found out what that was, and then under that it came up a lot of um associated and and relevant sort of jobs that go hand in hand. So it could be museum director or creative director or or whatever else. But when I typed in art director, one of the jobs that popped up was for the Star Life Foundation. So I don't find that without going through the counselling thing. So that's right. So then I went on a wait list or an expression of interest online with that. Um and I put my name down and and I'd be interested to interview for it and and see what I could bring to the table. So I guess that's something good that came out of it. And then there's been some other conversations after that.

SPEAKER_03 8:13

That's great. Yeah. Or at least it was worth the while, right? But again, just like everything, just because you do it doesn't mean you have to to uh follow through on everything. Yeah, it's just one thing.

SPEAKER_07 8:24

That's it. You've spoken about that in previous episodes, and I definitely fall into this trap of it's just too big to think, what's the rest of my career going to be? What am I going to do? And how do I get there? And it's so I just see such a big picture that becomes overwhelming rather than as you probably say again, like what's the next step, or what can I take out of it, or what do I learn?

SPEAKER_03 8:44

But well, you just said it before, you know, like a one foot in front of the other changes everything, right? I mean, um one you know, this thing led to this thing, and now I'm got a different outlook on something. That's the point, right? I mean, you can't just go jumping straight into something and go, well, this is what I do for the rest of my life, and it doesn't work, right? Uh the same here. I I didn't know that I was ever going to be a counsellor, right? But one foot in front of the other, I end up here. So it kind of works that way.

SPEAKER_07 9:14

Yeah, it certainly does. And then as I was telling you off air before, it's led to a discussion about there's a couple of cricket shop businesses for sale out sort of in this, I'm gonna say southeastern suburbs, but I'm horrible at this. Where's Mentone? Yeah. Southeastern suburbs. Okay, fuck, I got it right. I'm the guy who thinks North is straight up. Well, that's where it says on the compass. North is at the top. Um, but you know, I don't think I'd go down that path of being able to say, well, how do you review the books and what would a business plan look like? And how do you make money and what do they do well and what do they do poorly, and what can the experience be like? I don't think I'd go down that path without taking the step of going to the career's guy first and moving in the direction of um, I don't know, going out with open arms and bringing that energy to the world and seeing what comes back at me, which is what we've sort of spoken about as well.

SPEAKER_05 9:56

Yeah, goodbye. Good.

SPEAKER_07 9:58

That's good. Uh, you want to get into unpack that? Let's do it. Let's do it. Hey, film, by the way. Yeah. Uh you look, I mean, you're a you're a nice guy, but you look pretty shitty at the moment. What is going on with you now?

SPEAKER_03 10:11

Yeah, I got this kidney stone that uh is absolutely ripping me apart. Um it's been a a rough couple of weeks, I reckon. Um, but this kidney stone is just oh my god. I I I I I was calculating it yesterday, and I reckon I've had maybe two, 15, 16 hours in the last week and a half sleep.

SPEAKER_07 10:33

That's not enough.

SPEAKER_03 10:34

No, it's not, but uh you just can't sleep. The pain is just off the charts.

SPEAKER_07 10:39

You got any of the good drugs, the endones of the world and stuff like that on anything? They don't give you that stuff.

SPEAKER_03 10:44

No, no, you just struggling through it, just any inflamms. Raw dogging it. Yeah, and any inflamms, mate. That's uh that's all they gave me. Is that it? That's all it gave me. I was in hospital um before I went to Sydney.

SPEAKER_02 10:54

Oh, you did go to hospital?

SPEAKER_07 10:55

Yeah, I had to definitely a kidney stone, definitely a kidney stone. And how do you pass a kidney stone? Yep. Straight out the end? Yep.

SPEAKER_05 11:02

Oh my goodness, mate.

SPEAKER_07 11:04

Yep. You've had one before, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 11:06

Yeah 10, 12 years ago.

SPEAKER_07 11:09

Do you remember it being incredibly painful back then?

SPEAKER_03 11:12

It wasn't as bad as this one. No way was it as bad as this one.

SPEAKER_07 11:16

Not that I want to get too graphic, but is the most pain going to be passing it or the pain you're going through now and the passing will feel related.

SPEAKER_03 11:22

Last night I can tell you now, I reckon I passed out because of the pain.

SPEAKER_07 11:25

Oh my goodness, man.

SPEAKER_03 11:26

Legit. Like I was on the couch, I was groaning, I was hunched over, I was in all sorts of trouble, and then uh, and then all of a sudden I just woke up and my wife woke me up and she's like, Do you want to stay here? Do you want to come to bed? Like, what time is it? It's like 10, 10. Whatever it was. And I laid down the couch, I reckon, at about 7:30-ish. And uh I'm like, oh, I'll try and go to bed. Um, but I got through the night okay, but yeah, it was it was a tough night last night. It was a tough night.

SPEAKER_07 11:56

Yuck. Yeah, man. Oh well. Um, send thoughts and prayers. Maybe a thumbs up emoji on Facebook, move on. Um, mate, let's get into unpack that this week. I want to talk to you about parenting.

SPEAKER_03 12:08

Hmm, this is a good subject, actually.

SPEAKER_07 12:10

I think so. So you've got two kids, uh, Amelia and Patrick. Shout out to me. I've got two, I've got Harley who's five, and a baby girl, Alexa. Um, things are pretty good at home at the moment. The girls are great, to me, it's amazing. But I find myself thinking a lot about what kind of parent I want to be on most days, which I guess is a good thing. I spoke to another person about it where parent, this is a quote I like, but parenting's only hard if you're good at it. Which I which I think can ring true. But um, so I read that over 60% of Aussie parents say they worry that they're not doing enough for their kids, and that really struck with me, or stuck with me, because I think if everything's going okay, sometimes the guilt or pressure to get it right can still creep in. Um I reckon we do too much of our kids. Too much? Well, even and we touch on this not now or later, but even things like playing with my daughter when she picks the most boring games, like the one that goes in her house tonight is mums and dads, which is a bullshit game where I guess we pretend to be parents and I pretend to be the dad and she pretends pretends to be the mum. And it I it's it's actually sounds good when I say it, but it normally involves me laying in bed, getting ready to get up while she pots around and puts together breakfast, which is made up of Lego and other sorts of toys and stuff like that. But she spends 35 minutes setting up mums and dads and no minutes playing mums and dads. It's always like, well, I've got to set up all these things, and it's it's a bit boring, and I feel a bit guilty that it's boring. What if he's the killer, right?

SPEAKER_03 13:37

What if she's doing it for you? What if she's playing that game for you and you don't even know? Right? What if she's playing that game because she reckon she may feel as though you might need a connection in some way and she's taking away something, like a a difficult time or a difficult emotion, or or you just look a little tired or something like that. Well, what if she's try doing that for you? And that happens so often.

SPEAKER_07 14:05

Really? Well, I've I'll I'll come back to this in a second, but I've heard that when they want to play with you, it's because they just want connection with you. It's just their way. Yeah, but what yeah, that's what I'm saying. But the play is almost irrelevant, it's more of the connection about you being present with them in the room.

SPEAKER_03 14:19

Yes, but I can tell you now, in my experience, a lot of the time, not all the time, but a lot of the time, they do it for you. And we see this in school refuses as well.

SPEAKER_07 14:29

Well, yeah, we can touch on that too. So I thought we could unpack this today. So, what does good parenting actually look like? How do we handle the guilt and the comparison, the pressure we put in ourselves to raise happy, grounded kids? Luke, you've got two kids of your own, as we spoke about, both of different ages. So, from your perspective, where do we even start with all of this? I've got some statistics and other things that I've done, but do you want to lead us away? Well, well, and what do you say your profession, I guess? Like, what do you get?

SPEAKER_03 14:55

My profession, I would say I've done I I work a lot with parents. Like, oh, heaps, heaps. I I would say right now and over the course of my journey, I reckon I would say that about 60, 70% of the work I've done is with parents and families. Uh a lot of school refusers, heaps.

SPEAKER_04 15:16

Um is a school refuser simply a kid that refuses to go to school? Is it as simple as that?

SPEAKER_03 15:21

Yeah, yeah. Not really. It's never that simple. They they don't go to school, yes. Yeah. They they call them school refusers because they're refusing to go to school. Yeah. But what's the underlying reason for that? Oh, okay. Right. And and and that's the thing that I we work with. We don't work with trying to get kids back to school, work with the underlying condition or the issue that's causing this distress and that. Uh what I would say is this parenting is the toughest job in the world. There's so many moving parts. Too many. And uh I could talk about parenting stuff all day, right? Nobody is ever going to be the perfect parent. I'm not even close. I can tell you now I'm not. Uh what I would say is um we need to understand what's going on for our kids for sure, but more so we need to understand what's going on for us, right? So if we're not worried, if we're not um taking care of ourselves, your kids will take care of you in their own way. And that could look like, like you were saying before, playing games with Harley, it could look like um going into emotional distress. Don't underestimate monkey see, monkey do. It is a serious thing, right? Uh, where the kids will mimic you without realizing it, it's not deliberate. It's not. And then it becomes uh from the parent perspective, I'm getting very frustrated because you've got this thing, I've got my own thing, I can't manage your thing at the same time. Right? And we we fail to understand that the kids are doing this thing because A, they're mimicking us, and B, because they're trying to take your pain away from you. Because if you're worried about them, you're not worried about you. Right? That happens so often. There is a massive industry around supporting that stuff. The other thing is this is probably the biggest, biggest challenge that we face as parents right now is if you grew up in the 80s, 90s or before, discipline was with a fist. You got your ass handed to you, right? Yeah, you got your bust. Did you get smacked as a kid? Smacked, I got beaten. I didn't get smacked, man. Okay, I got hit with whatever was available to the person at the time.

SPEAKER_07 17:30

Yeah, I was susceptible to the old smacking.

SPEAKER_03 17:32

I wish I got smacked.

SPEAKER_07 17:33

Oh, really?

SPEAKER_03 17:34

Yeah, legit. I'll I'll be okay with smacking, right? But uh I got hit with all different types of stuff, bamboo, cane sticks, helped, right?

SPEAKER_07 17:43

I definitely got threatened with the uh the belt a few times, but it wasn't, I was never hit with a belt. It was more of a uh when you if you double a belt over itself, you can create that real whip cracking sound. Yep. That's enough to scare you. Couldn't that actually the actual to be honest with you?

SPEAKER_03 17:56

I feel like I I'm still waiting for the shoe to fall out of my arse, man. Like I got kicked that hard. Yeah, man. I got I got everything. I like so and I I'm no different to a lot of people that grew up around that time. Yeah, yeah, because that was that was the parenting approach back then. Uh you hadn't come a long way since then. Do you think have we come too far? Yeah, well I'm going to do that. Sorry, so now you're resisting with thrill the testosterone. Yours, sir. Fair question. But the um so then the government steps in and says, hey, no more beating kids up. Had to happen, right? It had to happen. It was it it wasn't a great approach. We're gonna stop that, guys. No more kicking the shit out of your kids. Yeah, right? Fair enough.

SPEAKER_06 18:36

That's a fair bill.

SPEAKER_03 18:37

Yep. I'd beat up. Perfect. Perfect. And then they brought all these laws in to protect the kids, and they had to happen, right? Uh, because the beatings were so severe. Um, and nobody and then the the the line between uh a discipline and a beating was so blurred, nobody knew what to do. Right. So then they bring in these laws to protect kids and to protect families, and that was great, perfect. Now it left the new generation of parents with no uh skill sets to parent. Uh no discipline cop like mechanisms. No, no parenting at all. Right, right. So then then they brought out this uh new way of doing parenting, which was get down to your the to the level of your kids, talk them through it, um, inform them, all this sorts of stuff, allow them to make choices. That sounds funny. Yeah, but it's not because we're asking a five, six, seven, eight-year-old to pick a choice, they have no clue what the outcome could be. We need to be adults and essentially choose a lot of that stuff for them. We can't allow them to choose that stuff because it gets too messy. Yeah.

SPEAKER_07 19:49

So is that that sort of comes back to uh I saw a thing on Instagram. We're trying to think of who's the standard Jimmy Carr spoke about, you know, if you always just give your kids what you want, well, they're gonna want to watch 12 hours of TV a day and eat chips all day, but uh they're gonna turn into pretty horrible adults. Is it kind of like that?

SPEAKER_03 20:06

Like you can't A little bit because we what because the parents and it's nobody it's not the parents' fault. I'm not blaming anybody here. Uh the parents that didn't have the skill sets. So then what they did was they befriended their kids, and they do that still now. Oh yeah. And as soon as you become friends, you lose your authority, right? Because now we're 50-50. We're absolutely not 50-50 when you've got a child. You can't be. You can't expect that a child can make a decision that an adult can make. That's ridiculous. Yeah, they don't have the emotional intelligence to do it. Or no, they don't even have the world the world view the the the life experience to be able to understand it. Yeah, they haven't failed enough yet. Right.

SPEAKER_05 20:46

Great way of putting it.

SPEAKER_03 20:47

They need to fail.

SPEAKER_05 20:48

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 20:48

And it's okay, they should fail. So my my approach really is don't ever coach your partner, but a hundred percent coach your kids, um, counsel your kids, direct your kids, mentor your kids. Don't do that with your partner because your partner's like, no, you get you get fucked, right? But um but from a from a child perspective, 100% coach it and work with them, right? But you have to remain the authority, and that doesn't mean you have to be authoritarian, Donald Trump style door mile way or the highway, right? Uh true social's about to smash us up because they used the word Donald Trump, right?

SPEAKER_07 21:28

But the um we mentioned Trump and Putin, yeah, and you're worried about getting cancelled.

SPEAKER_03 21:33

Yeah, but I start saying red dots come through those windows and duck and so uh it's not about that, it's being a bit more authoritative where it's a bit more directive. Tough love is okay, right? Um no, you can't have that. It's okay to say no, right? You need to say no. You have to. If you don't have a boundary, and this is what I'm finding, there is a massive increase. In the people I've seen and just the conversations outside of this office where young kids are sleeping in the bed with their parents because there is no boundary. So I remember being told about this that uh uh Asian, some Asian countries, their parenting approaches that the kids can sleep in the parents' bed for up until they're ready to do it on their own. Right? Uh I've heard that somewhere. It's interesting. Don't grab me on that, but I heard it quite a few times actually. Um, and you know what, I don't know if that works or if it doesn't work. But uh in the Western society, it's generally not never been the case, right? But now there's a massive increase because the parents have no boundaries, none. And so then when they decide to implement a boundary, the child will play out because it's so different. The change is so dramatic, don't know how to manage it. And uh and the transition for that is quite significant um for the family because you're creating this angst at home now because we're now implementing boundaries because we know that they're right for you, that you need boundaries. Society is going to create them for you anyway when you're finished school. So best we teach you how to manage that now, right? While we can coach you, not when you're 16, 17, and you've got to start making your own choices. Um, and now, and then we see that follow-on into friendship groups for kids, right? That then they have no boundaries for their uh for their friends, and so their friends just trot all over them, uh, push them in the mud, all that sort of stuff, and it's then the kids are left with all this anxiety and uh dysregulation of emotion. Uh and and so then who picks up that psyche then? We're asking the kids to do it. So let me tell you the process. Then then that happens, right? The kids, the the child's got all this anxiety and all this dysregulation. Then the school go, yo, you've got to send your kid to go and get tested. They're gonna get a cognitive assessment or whatever, right? Then they're gonna get that, and then they say, Okay, cool. You've got this diagnosis, here's a pill. It's now your problem, it's the kids' problem. When ultimately, it could be handled in a different way with the with coaching the parents. And that's really what it is. It's not about counseling, it's about coaching parents. And I I actually have on my website now a bit of a plug, get around it. Get around it. What is it? Lukelet.com.au. Lukletet.com.au. On my website there is a um uh a uh a program that I created, an online program video based uh around coaching parents. It's called Resilient Families.

SPEAKER_05 24:49

Nice.

SPEAKER_03 24:50

Um and it's uh the videos, I don't know how many videos could be like 40 videos or something like that, but they're all short videos, so they're like 15-minute videos or something. And the whole thing's about coaching the parents, all about coaching the parent, nice and then having empathy for where you are now and then compassion for where you want to go, right? It's not about uh do this or else, it's more about hey, give this a go, and then finding your own version of the thing that we're talking about. Because it's not you can't just go read a book and go, I'll just do that. Andrew Fuller's got some really great stuff on guaranteed, great stuff, checking out. But uh if you just do those things that everybody talks about, it may not work for your circumstances, so you've got to test it to find your version of it. Yeah, yeah. There's no one way of going about it. That's why parenting is to be is the toughest chocolate that comes with a lot, a lot of uh mud thrown at you. Um, and uh everybody's got a a way that you could be doing it better, yeah. But it's more about assessing where you're at with your family.

SPEAKER_07 25:55

I think that trial and error is so true, and I think about it from a coaching point of view when I'm coaching young kids. I feel like every time I coach a young kid, the first session we do together is almost identical. It's always doing the same thing, but there'd be certain drills that I'll do which just land with everyone, and every now and then you get a kid that comes on and just doesn't quite understand it, and you've just got to go, well, how do I find a different way to deliver this message to get the same outcome? And you've got to so I think that's probably what you're talking about, where you've got to find your own way to make things work. Here's how we explain how to do it, and then how does that fit in with your family and how can you get folded?

SPEAKER_03 26:27

When I coach, you can tell the children that do not have boundaries at home, you can see it because they don't implement the things that you give them. That's so true, and they play out, yeah, and then they go, Oh, it's all your fault, and you're not coaching with them. And then you speak to the parents who are like autos.

SPEAKER_07 26:47

Yeah, and arm with you. So true. So episode the art of coaching, I'm gonna say it was episode 10. Yeah, it was. Was it we had Mitch 11 and we're this is now 12. Um, but I reckon coming back to that episode and bringing it now, I reckon just about the number one most important thing that I look for in a student is coachability. You have to be coachable. I'm not sure if coachability is a word.

SPEAKER_03 27:08

So yeah, well, but you know what? If they're not, yeah, that doesn't mean we give up on them. The idea that I generally take, not with every parent because not every parent's open to it, okay? It's more about how do I bring in the parent into the thing that we're doing without actually being on the field and get them on board with the things that we're seeing, and then how do I work with them? Because if I work with the parent, the kid organically will follow every time. But the problem is, is that uh even when you go away on trips on tournaments and stuff like that, and you've got kids and you've got to look after them for the week, you can tell the ones that don't have boundaries that are um uh a a friend of mine, Lynn, she she's really funny. She says, um mentioned Lynn before, actually. She says uh, yeah, especially with um uh what are they called um single single children? Uh single children, she is single mothers? No parents, no, no. Only children is what I meant to say. So only child. Yeah, they be they become this um emperor or empress. Okay. Where they rule the roost, right? Because the parents just get around these kids all the time that they're the the light of their life, and you know, rightly so. Uh, but then they lose their parenting uh abilities because they can't separate themselves from the children. So then the the children actually end up with all the power, they make all the choices. Uh if they play up at home, parents give them what they need, right? And now you look at it's not the 1950s anymore where you've got mum that would stay at home, right? Now with with the pressures of life, both parents are working, and a lot of them are still working at home. Um, and then they've got the children around. It's like I've got to give them what they need so I can go and do this other thing that's really important as well. So it's really massive juggling act. And I'll always say it, parenting is the toughest job in the world.

SPEAKER_07 29:06

All right, so stick with me here because I got some data that all post some uh conversations for us. Um there was a thing called the Triple P's 2024 National Parenting Survey done in Australia. There's 8,500 people, um parents and carers that responded to this. So the key findings that came out of it. Well, the issues were cost of living pressure, emotional distress, lack of sleep, self-care by falling by the wayside. Uh went on to say that nearly 63% of parents feel guilt at least once a week by how much time they spend with their children. Many parents are dissatisfied with the time they have for self-care, such as exercise, socializing, and hobbies. Um and it seems that parents are stressed and emotions are high, and parents report rising stress and exhaustion, sleep deprivation, especially parents of young children. Um and then went down to talk about um from another sort of section was at by Reach Out where it said what parents and carers worry about. And the leading concerns amongst parents and carers with young people aged 12 to 18 were social media, exam stress, mental health issues, sleep, diet, and exercise. So I we can I can go some questions with you. A question I'd come up with would be with data showing most parents feel guilty weekly about time they spend with their children. What does that guilt tell us about expectations of parenthood, both uh from self and society? And then I want you to touch on those other worries, the social media and whatever else. But is there the smirk on your face?

SPEAKER_05 30:28

Where are you going with this? It's okay. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 30:31

It's okay if I don't answer your question, but kind of answer it. Hey.

SPEAKER_05 30:35

50% of your podcast.

SPEAKER_03 30:38

Um right. Oh I want to make sure I say this in a really nice way. Okay. So that it's all fucking bullshit. No, no, but it's true, it's real. Yeah, it's real. Data's data. Yeah. Uh and people feel the way they feel. Yep. How about this though? Right? If the outcome is the child is experiencing the same thing as the parent, based on what you just said, right? Uh, where parents were sleep deprived, anxious, yeah, um, worried about all these different things of feeling guilty, and then we're seeing the same behaviors in the in the child, monkey seeing monkey two is a serious issue. So what are we teaching our kids through monkey see monkey too? How are we not, how are we prioritizing ourselves? Because if we prioritize ourselves in terms of self um self-care, um, in terms of time for ourselves, uh, if we're doing those types of things and we're looking after ourselves, our children will follow us. They'll mimic us. Now, how are you doing now? So if you're sleep deprived, I get that you would be, especially with a newborn first two years is probably the most toughest, especially for couples after a child is born, because the change is so dramatic. Can appreciate that. Once you get through those first two years, it's not so bad, right? But that first two years is so difficult. Um the if you're not if you're outside of those two years, okay, and you're still sleep deprived, why are you sleep deprived?

SPEAKER_07 32:06

So can we just back up a little bit?

SPEAKER_03 32:08

In those first two years, you're saying just survive, just get through. You're kind of a bit like that because it, you know, then you've got the You don't have a lot of control, do you? No, you don't, and and uh, you know, you look at affini. Yeah, it's messy. Yeah, and and yeah, going for that moment. Mums are got it really tough in that case, right? So they're not going to be able to get the sleep that they require. They're not. No. They're not. And you know what? They generally feel guilty by sleeping during the day.

SPEAKER_01 32:34

Yes.

SPEAKER_03 32:34

When they should. Everybody tells them they should. But the guilt factor, and this is what we said in previous podcasts, emotions are the biggest motivators. So if I feel guilty about something, it's a massive motivator for me to do something different. Um, even though I'm not thinking about me. And if I think about me and I have sleep, then when it comes to feeding time, oh, my body's going to be in the right position to do that.

SPEAKER_07 32:59

Um You also just on that, and I'm sure I can speak on this on my wife's behalf, but she is getting up twice in the night to feed, give or take. And last night, even um Alexa had a pretty rough night. But, you know, if her sleep is broken, the cumulative effect of that over time, it slowly wears you down, even though you might not think that anything gradual has changed. But if you constantly your sleep is broken up into two, three and a half hour sessions in the night, that sort of wears you down. And and what I've found to make I had a pretty rough fish sort of day yesterday, where she just went through some emotional sort of things. But if you sleep deprived, well not sleep deprived is probably a bit too heavy at this stage, but if your sleep is broken and you are tired, and and I've dealt with this as well, when you feel like that, your emotions often aren't in check because, well, you haven't caught up on sleep. So many times we touched on in previous episodes, when I have my rough days, so to speak, or my down days, the thing that I normally link it back to is I'm tired. It's it's really hard to feel clear and concise when when you're you know not sleeping a lot, particularly well, it's so important.

SPEAKER_03 34:02

Yeah, 100%. When that's that body's uh space to repair and a brain's time to calm sooth, right? So and reset. Now, sleep's just one aspect, okay? But when we think about it, if I teach my children that I can't do something right now because I need to do this for me, I'm teaching them to do something for them, right? Uh they if if we feel guilty because I can't give them that time, trust me when I say this to you, we're teaching them a very valuable lesson. Everything we do as a parent is a lesson. Whether we know it or not, whether we do it deliberately or not, right? What am I teaching them? Right? It's like when they when they get old enough to start doing chores. 100% teach your kids to do chores. Yeah. You know how often that doesn't happen anymore?

SPEAKER_07 34:55

Yeah, well, we we we definitely do it at least once, if not twice, if not even three times a week. Harley unpacks the dishwasher with me. She's five. Um, and yeah, at the start, she's like, I don't want to do it. And I said, Harley, nobody wants to do it. We've got to get used to doing things that we don't want to do just because they need to get done. Like it's as simple as that. And so now she's a little less reluctant to say no, and she just knows it's just that's a part of her um role and responsibility. It's a very small one, but I always say to her, Harley, what are we? She goes, We're a teen. I said, Yeah, this is a part of us being a teen. So get on board.

SPEAKER_03 35:27

Yeah. Yeah. Well, you and and then you think about the outcomes for the future relationships. So explain it. Yep. So, you know, for females, the f the the model for future partners is dad. Yeah, 100%. For males, the future partners uh the model for future partners is mum.

SPEAKER_00 35:46

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 35:46

So if we don't work together as in our relationship as parents, then we what does that look like for our kids? Like we're always arguing and pushing back at each other. Yeah, yeah. And that's not great.

SPEAKER_07 35:58

You told me about monkeys see monkey do. I've seen this and I've ran it and I'm big on this and I'll try to remember it, but I'm always trying to hug and kiss to make her in front of Harley or give compliments to to make her in the five. Yeah, which is which is dangerous too.

SPEAKER_05 36:09

Is it? Yeah, man. Oh, I know. Yeah, man. What have I done? I'm not saying that that's not a bad thing. It's good then, right? But I want to model myself what a good relationship looks like when you're committed to someone.

SPEAKER_03 36:20

And what if she doesn't have what if she can't find somebody like that? Let me tell you. Yeah, you think about it. Come at me with that. Yeah, teach her how to be a princess. Where's the prince? Right? And and that that's a difficult time, too. No, that's not teaching her to be a princess. Teaching her that I have love for her mum and this is how I'm not saying that it's not a bad, that it's a bad thing. I'm saying it's a good thing. But what I am saying is that uh when we uh if I taught taught my daughter that she uh is a princess, right, which happens quite a bit, okay, then where's the prince? Let me tell you that right now in society there are no princess now. There aren't. There aren't. Yeah. That's the legit. That's fair. So uh this is one thing that I I like to tell parents all the time because they do it so often and they're really good at it, right? They argue in front of their kids. How often do they repair? Right? In front of the kids as well. In front of the kids. Yeah.

SPEAKER_07 37:23

So we have an argument, but then we resolve the argument in front of you so you know that that's there's a cycle here.

SPEAKER_03 37:28

Yeah, and this is what repair looks like because they don't they don't do it. So you see it at schools, you see it because because schools you've got so many kids coming into one small space, uh, they're gonna naturally have conflict. And as humans, we're gonna have conflict, right? So how do they repair? They don't, they hardly ever repair, they just go to the next level and want to uh hurt the next person even more, and then there's all this mistrust and all this sort of stuff. But uh, parents, please, please repair in front of your kids. Generally, repair happens when there's less distractions uh and uh and kids are going to bed or whatever, and it's quiet, we can talk it through, right? But if you're happy to argue in front of your kids, you need to repair so they can see what it looks like and how they do it. Um, because they don't know. A lot of them don't know how to do repair, right? And you see opposite ends of the cycle. So you might have kids that absolutely don't know anything about repair, and so then they go and make it worse, right? And then dig in a little deeper, right? Become a little bit more stubborn, uh, try and hurt the other person even more than what they've been hurt. And then you've got the other end of the spectrum where they give that person who's they've got conflict with everything to get that friendship back, right? And then it'll become a doormat to that friend. Because that friend, well, I can guarantee you this, we'll take advantage of it, and they will.

SPEAKER_07 38:54

I um I've got sort of three more questions I'd like to get answered. And if we could spend a couple of minutes on each or however we can, that would be great. So, for working parents, what strategies can help manage the tension between job demands and quality time with family, especially in say an era of remote work, flexible hours, etc.

SPEAKER_03 39:11

Let's go back to that in a second. Can you ask that question again in a second? Absolutely. So just to finish my point, yeah, when we go to repair, right? And like I said, about distractions, you need to pause your kids. Literally hit the pause button. You need to pause though because me and Mum are having this discussion and we will be with you when we're finished. Right. Right. And it's got to be just like that. It has to be just like that. It's firm, it's directive, because this right now is the priority. Because what you'll find is just like uh a little baby, right? So little baby might be walking past, or sorry, crawling past, right? When they're old enough to crawl. They'll be crawling past, and then mom and dad might be talking about something that's happened throughout the day, and they get a bit all uh revved up about the story, right? This is how simple it can be. And imagine what it would be like with it as an argument, right? So they're talking about a story that happened, this person did theirs to me, and blah, blah, blah, blah. And they get all revved up. And so then mum and dad are looking at each other and they're both engaged in the story, and you know, that there's uh an unrest because of the story's, you know, not great. Then all of a sudden, that kid cries out of nowhere, right? This is a this is a serious issue that needs to be addressed. As soon as that kid cries, what do the parents do, Joel?

SPEAKER_07 40:29

Uh console the kid and say this is okay.

SPEAKER_03 40:33

Yes. So then the parents no longer look at each other, they look at the kid or do the natural thing, which is what they should do. They go over there, they console the kid, bad on a bum, whatever, calm it down. Over time, you'll notice that that child continues to do that over and over and over again. Now what's happened is you cry in the face of conflict with mum and dad. Yes, or even in a story that they're telling because it looks the same to the child, right? So then the child cries, conversation stops. We go back to the conversation, child cries, conversation stops. Now that child has built a strategy to get control over what's happening between mum and dad.

SPEAKER_06 41:15

Oh, that's power play.

SPEAKER_03 41:16

But it's not deliberate. It's just like I I need you to stop it because I don't know what's going on. You two are my caregivers, you two are my safety nair. You can't be like this with each other. I've got to stop it. So they do, right? Right.

SPEAKER_06 41:29

Okay.

SPEAKER_03 41:29

And they do it in an emotional way. So then when that happens, all of a sudden the child gets to eight, nine years old, right? That strategy no longer works because the parents are like, oh, suck it up, you'll be fine. So then what does the child do? They escalate. And then they escalate. And then they escalate. And then all of a sudden now they're self-harming and all these types of stuff. That's where that can lead. Right? If it's not addressed, right? Instead of going, hey, instead of going, hey, you okay? Right? Let the child don't don't pick up the kid. Don't pick up the kid. Unless they've literally hurt themselves and you know they've physically hurt themselves, don't pick up the kid. If you can pick it, don't pick him up. So then they they don't get pick up. You say to him, You okay? I'm daddy just talking to you, you good? And then you watch the child go, oh, that's okay. Then we go back to our conversation. The moment you pick up that child, I can guarantee you that strategy has just gone click and we're good to go. Then all of a sudden, every time that happens, it becomes plug and play.

SPEAKER_04 42:32

Yeah, it's a program for a hundred percent.

SPEAKER_07 42:34

Sorry, that's right. What was the question again? So the question is uh for working parents, what strategies can help manage the tension between job demands and quality time with family?

SPEAKER_03 42:45

Job demands and quality time with family. Yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_07 42:48

I'm guessing if I was going to expand on that, you know, you've got working parents, you gibble to your day job, you've got bosses, you've got deadlines, you do all that, you come home, you knackered, you've been barked at all day, or you've been in a high pressure environment, and all of a sudden you work walk into the house. And you know, I'm guessing for a lot of people they still carry that tension around, myself included, I remember doing it.

SPEAKER_03 43:08

Yeah, so you have to recognise what is quality time. What does that mean to you, right? Uh that that could look like uh how was your day? Then the kid goes, the child generally goes, Good, good. And then I'll let this one. There's better questions than that, isn't it? No, no, it's okay. Then you you know they're gonna respond that way no matter what question you ask. It was good.

SPEAKER_07 43:30

Well, I s I say to Harley, tell me what the most exciting thing you did today was.

SPEAKER_03 43:34

Yeah.

SPEAKER_07 43:35

That's how I would start. Like that's a more of an open-ended question. You can't answer that with mob loop.

SPEAKER_03 43:38

Yeah, but if you've got a teenager, they're just gonna tell you to get nipped right. So you gotta tell you, yeah. Let me wait till I get Good luck with that one. So then so then they say good. And you go, okay, what does good mean? Right? And then they generally look at you funny. But if you don't let them off the hook, right, they'll start to give you an engaging conversation. That quality time.

SPEAKER_04 44:01

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 44:01

Right. It's not about actually doing anything, it's about being. Right. And it really depends on what your version of quality time looks like.

SPEAKER_07 44:08

Yeah. What's your version? Because our version is well, we try to have dinner at the dinner table at least Monday through Friday where we sit down and have that time. What's yours look like?

SPEAKER_03 44:17

Uh we're not structured without quality time.

SPEAKER_04 44:20

Really? No, man. Do you have dinner at the table? Yeah. Yeah. Absolutely. Every night? Every night. Yep.

SPEAKER_07 44:25

Placemats out, cups, everything, sit around. Yep. Yep. Yep. I think that's a really I I love that time. Sometimes it feels like a chore, because sometimes you just want to eat a bowl of pasta and watch the end of the game or the end of what you're watching, but I think it's really important to do that.

SPEAKER_03 44:39

I I I personally couldn't care less whether we talk or not. But sometimes uh sometimes the day just doesn't allow for that. Right? Sometimes we're stewing over things and that's life. Right. So then how do we roll those punches? Personally, quality time is whatever you make it. And uh my children will come to us whenever they need it, and we will go to them when we need it. Um, and so I'm we're not really structured in that way, but we all know where we stand because we have those types of conversations. My son, he he's the worst, right? You're like, I was cool today, good. Come on, buddy, seriously, you know where I'm going with this. You know.

SPEAKER_04 45:22

And you're like, let's do this dance again.

SPEAKER_03 45:25

Yeah, no, this is what happened, right? Um the the other thing that I noticed with young people, and I'm talking probably over the ages of 10, 11, uh, they they're not used to being heard by adults, and that their uh uh their thoughts are not respected by adults, they're picked apart by adults, because it could be better, right? Oh yeah, of course it could be better, we could be better as adults too. But so they're not they're not always feeling respected, so they don't give you anything. You pry a little bit more, then they generally give more, right? But if you let them off the hook with good, oh yeah, good, sweet, and then you go on with your day, then that's a bit different. Then you just plugged and played the same strategy that they already believe. So that's um that's something to understand. Your last thing the other thing that I want to say is this that I've found to be absolutely true nearly every single time. Your parenting days are over when they get to 12, 13 years old. Parenting is done, you're finished.

SPEAKER_05 46:30

Whoa, what do you mean? You are now a mentor. That's a bombshell. You are now a mentor.

SPEAKER_03 46:36

Ah, okay. Your parenting days are done.

SPEAKER_07 46:39

That actually makes so much sense. I was wondering when I was going to talk about this, but I think I'm a pretty good dad to Harley. Here we go. What?

SPEAKER_05 46:45

Oh and how many ticks do you want to give yourself?

SPEAKER_01 46:48

Let me find it. I'm joking with you. Calm down, mate. Calm down. Tell me. You're joking. Yeah. Anyway. Rip that kidney stone out of your body. Please.

SPEAKER_07 46:58

Don't don't threaten to help me. Anyway, I think I'm a pretty good dad to Harley. Yeah, bro. I think I've mentored her, I've I think I've taught her well, I've given her manners, we we're consistent in our approach. But here's where I come back to the big picture things. My dad is still very much a dad to me. Very much, and very much a mentor and a confidant. Now, I've got to tell you, the problems that he helps me solve, and I say my parents, my mum and my dad, but particularly my dad, um, is much greater than the problems I help solve my five-year-old at the moment. Oh, for sure. Yeah. So it's like, well, yeah, I think I'm a good dad of a five-year-old. Fucked if I know what kind of dad I'm gonna be with my kid's 39 and coming to me with bigger world problems that are actually much more serious than I can't find my Gabby glasses, you know, whatever. So in some regards that terrifies you, but in the other regards, I'll come back to sort of what you say. Is it's so far down the track that I don't have to worry about that at the moment. Maybe I'll get a much more life experience, much more life skills that when that moment arises, I'll be in a better position to handle it.

SPEAKER_03 47:57

Well, it sounds like your dad's mentoring you, but also too, which is great, but it also too, you you your children uh they mould you too, as much as you're molding them. That's very true. Right. So uh, you know, we're gonna give them with problems that are that we know we can manage right now. Uh, and then as we get moulded together, uh they start having relationships, all of a sudden they get married, they have kids, all those types of things. Uh or they go through identity crises or whatever it is that they're they're experiencing, they're molding you too, and you have to approach it differently too. So that's what's great about being a mentor over being a parent at that age, is because if I'm being a parent, I'm gonna try to control it all. If I'm being a mentor, I'm filling the gap with what they already know. So instead of going from A to Z with all this information, I only need to go from that they already got A and B sorted, I only have to give them C right now. I don't have to have all the answers. I only have to be one step ahead of them the whole journey. And you, you know, given the age difference, uh even if you had a child at 60, right? You're still 16 steps ahead of them. Yeah. You know what I mean?

SPEAKER_07 49:07

At minimum. That makes sense. You you spoke about I think you said like they teach you things. Uh and again, I was looking for a moment to to bring this up, but G Harley's getting pretty good at keeping me accountable, and and um, she knows right from wrong, good from bad. So she said two things that are really pointed to me um in the past couple of weeks. One of them was, Daddy, I don't want you to vape anymore because I don't want you to die. That hit me between the eyes, and I said to her, I promise you I'm going to try to quit over Christmas time. That's a time where I'm going to put a line in the sand and try to go through that process again. Um, and probably that'll involve hypnosis and whatever else. I've done that previously and then fell off the wagon with it, which was my own fault. So um, but fuck, that's different when it comes from your daughter rather than comes from your wife. So that's the first one. The second one, as you know, I'll do a couple of days a week maintenance up with mum and dad, which are pretty taxi on the body, and and and this is partly an excuse, but I spend a fair bit of time on my phone on the couch just scrolling whilst I'm also watching Netflix, like multi-device Doom scrolling or or doing social media stuff for us or texting the Crick Club can be anything, right? But she says to me regularly, Daddy's always on his phone. And that hurts me a little bit too because she's absolutely spot on. I am, and sometimes it's by way of disengaging after a hard day, and some days I'm just doing it because I'm on autopilot. So Yeah, why don't you tell her?

SPEAKER_03 50:28

Why don't you just tell her that? Don't don't leave your kids in the dark, just tell them that. Right? Perspective's really important. It's really important, right? Just tell them. Like uh, what do you hide? That and then uh and you're not unique in that way.

SPEAKER_07 50:42

No, no, absolutely not so often. No, no, no. I don't think I'm special, but it's just you talk about what they teach you.

SPEAKER_03 50:47

It's like, do you when it comes from your the worst part about it all is your kids are a mirror of you 100% and they find a way, little shits, they find a way to just deliver this stuff to you that is like I really dislike that part about me, right? And I find that with a lot of parents they try and solve the kid problem. But let me tell you now, with 100% certainty, that in every single client that I've ever seen, ever, in a family capacity, when I've solved the parent problem, we've organically solved the kid problem. Yeah, that makes sense. Every single time makes a perfect sense.

SPEAKER_07 51:27

All right. I we I don't want to run out of time, but I've got this one for you as well. But are there routines um and or small habits or mindset shifts that can help parents stay present with their children rather than feeling an autopilot? Often when I'm going through the week, it is just a tick box exercise. It's dinner, it's bath, it's pajamas, it's sweep, it's this, and there are all these sort of routines. And I find that sometimes you can miss the the moments that are worth and remembering that make everything worthwhile rather than just I can't wait to get into bed or I can put my head down the pillow and watch an episode of Family Guy and have an hour to myself before I go to sleep. So do you think being president's is really important? Do you think there's an issue with being an autopilot or that's just what parenting is? Have you got any techniques or tips for that?

SPEAKER_03 52:12

Yeah, I think there's a that that yeah, it's a difficult one because life has a habit of kicking you in the arse sometimes, right? And we set ourselves up for routines, we need them, uh so that way we can run an autopilot without using so much brain power. But uh there was a thing that I used to do, I don't do it as much now because it's not really as important now for my kids. Um, but they used to say goodnight to them every night. Yeah. And I never read a book or anything, right? But I would just lie in a bed with them or on the bed with them um for five, ten minutes, and sometimes it was silence, that was okay. Sometimes they wanted to talk, that was great. Yeah, I love that. Uh clean design, right? Whatever it was like, whatever happens, happens. And then it's okay, good night, catch you tomorrow. So uh that was that was one thing that um I found useful in terms of presence. Uh the other thing is uh I would say presence is very important when you're communicating with them. You can't communicate with them like you would an adult, where you can talk to them like because how often do you see this happen, right? Adults sit down at a table. Both phones on the bloody table. Yeah, dicks, put that thing away, man. Yeah, we've got a rap rule, no phones at the table. Yeah, or it doesn't matter where it is, right? It doesn't matter where it is. Yeah, uh I have a I I make a habit my wife's the worst at this point. Yeah, you're real bad at this point, Joanne. Come on, Joe. I don't even know what you're bad at. Loot you go, loot your game, loot you gay. But the um uh the distraction of the phone, right? Is more important than the conversation I'm having with you. Yes. That should never happen. Yeah, anywhere but here. You know what? If the thing goes off on your phone while you're having a conversation with your child, don't answer it. Right, don't even pull it out here. Which is more important right now? That's so good. You know, um how easy how easy is it though?

SPEAKER_07 54:11

We've been so drawn into the technology, ding goes off on your phone, whether you work, you're on the toilet, or you're walking, your first immediate reaction is to answer it.

SPEAKER_03 54:19

Let me just talk really quickly about priorities, right? Yep. So what's my priority? Yep. Okay, what is why I value the most right now? Is it my phone or is it my child? If I'm looking at values, and this is the important thing, you have to understand when we are parenting, I think through the work that I've done that I've found, okay? Is number one value is me. Yep. Always I have to look after me. Yep. Number two, my relationship with my partner always, if I don't look after that relationship, our parenting approach is going to be so polar opposite, right? We're not gonna be on the same page, we're not gonna be able to support our kids, we're not gonna be able to love them together, right? Um, and then that creates division if you have multiple kids. So don't do that. Uh and then it's our children. Okay. They're the they're the uh that's that's the hierarchy of things, right? Because don't underestimate monkey seeming to do I cannot say that enough, right? If I don't take care of me, my children won't take care of them. If I don't take care of my partner, my children will have really bad relationships. Okay, so what does it look like? My phone should never come out of my pocket when I'm sitting there talking to a kid, unless I say to them, I'm expecting a call, but we can revisit this if I get that call.

SPEAKER_06 55:42

Yeah, right?

SPEAKER_03 55:42

So I'm previously the agenda. Yeah, yeah. And and so that way it's okay, right? But if I don't involve them that don't feel respected. Andrew Fuller has this thing called um CPR connected, protected, respected. Connected, protected, respected, yes. Um, and that's the way he sees most kids need, and that was on a study he kind of did, um, which was quite large. Uh I don't know the whole ins and outs on it, but he he he did this and he came up with this phrase, CPR for kids, you know, young people mainly, connected, protected, respected. If you can't give those three things, understand that one of those things is going to impact them in later life or in their relationships or in the way their relationship with themselves, right? Or in their way of um managing their emotional uh issues or their emotional regulation, it's gonna get thrown out. So, how do I instill that in them? Right. And I I I love that CPR. I give that to everybody.

SPEAKER_07 56:42

You know, this is an horrible timing. I assume you saw this, but I've got my phone sitting on the couch next to me and it's on silent, but it just lit up, and the first thing I did was turn my head. It's such an impulsive thing and easy thing to do. And this was a conversation talking with you. So sorry about that.

SPEAKER_03 56:56

My my phone goes off.

SPEAKER_07 56:57

I shouldn't even I need to put a face down, mate, so that doesn't happen again.

SPEAKER_03 57:00

My phone goes off at home. I don't even look at it if I'm talking to somebody at home. I don't even look at it. Even when I'm speaking with others, they even say, You gotta get that. No.

SPEAKER_05 57:07

Yeah, you took three days to get back to me, arsehole.

SPEAKER_03 57:09

Yeah, well, I was coaching. Either way, right? It was um the what is more important to me right now, and it's having this conversation with you right now. I don't care. You if somebody will leave a message, if they don't leave a message, then are there is it really that important call?

SPEAKER_07 57:24

Can you tell me what our runtime is? I want to work out how we go from here. I had no idea. About an hour. Okay, so we've got the opportunity to do rewind if you want to go there, but it's a question I might need expanding on. But it is about um parenting, or we can do Luke's toolkit. Or which one do you think is going to be most important for us right now, bud? So I th I would like to know this question. What role does a vulnerability being that we are a mental health podcast or masquerading is one, certainly, is it at a high level sort of Masquerading? Thank you. Anyway, kick away. Hell yeah. What role does vulnerability, i.e., showing weakness and meaning struggles, play in parenting? And can admitting parents are not perfect help their children? You not admitting admitting just admitting that we're not perfect people, we're not perfect parents, we're gonna get things wrong. Like, do you think being vulnerable around your kids is a good thing, or do you try to go from being that you're a big aggressive guy? Sorry to sort of throw that out there, but your style does does that involve around revol vulnerability, or does it revolve around strength or a mix of the both?

SPEAKER_03 58:24

I think vulnerability is strength. Vulnerability.

SPEAKER_06 58:27

Okay, great.

SPEAKER_03 58:27

Personally, I think vulnerability is strength. Yeah. Uh I I I will show vulnerability with my family. Yeah. Absolutely.

SPEAKER_07 58:35

And what age did you start to do that? Uh showed away. Yeah. Because I've started to do it with Harley, even when I've had my rough days and my anxious days, and where I fell flat and I've had glassy eyes and a bit teary. I don't know if it's the right thing or wrong things. I was supposed to ask you. But vulnerability, I've said, yeah, I've I'm having a rough day. I've had a bad day.

SPEAKER_03 58:53

And it's good that you explain that. But uh, and then what's important is showing her how you manage that. Um vulnerability doesn't always have to be uh uh an emotional thing like that. It could also be um it could be a work thing where my position is in a vulnerable position right now, and uh and right then we can talk about how I'd manage it. Uh what I do a lot personally is uh I'll just tell my kids this is where it's at, right? This is how I'm gonna go about it. Um and so that way they can see and learn from me. And then I say to them, always say this, and I said this to uh a coach I actually coached with last last week. I'm gonna show you how I go about this thing, and then you need to find your own way of doing it, right? And when you do it, we can discuss it, and then we can work out what works best for you because you are different to me, right? And uh generally I'm quite a unique character, I would say. Um and so there are things that I do and can get away with that other people can't, and there are things that I get attacked for that other people wouldn't. And and so there is good and bad in everything I do, 100% is true. Uh, but if it was my son, uh, you know, last week there was a kid that lipped off at him during the game, and then he lipped off back. I'm like, Patrick, this is not you. Why would you play that game? Yeah, but he's pissed me off. So what? You're a pitcher, go beat him with a ball, right? So um it's just reminding him who they are. Uh so vulnerability can be lots of different ways, but I like to make sure that they that young people find their own solutions to their problems, they can see how we go about it, but then hey, give that a go and then let me know how you go, and we can discuss the outcomes.

SPEAKER_04 1:00:46

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 1:00:46

Um, but you like in your example, you make sure that if we're going to be vulnerable like that, we need to make sure that we're showing your kids how we manage that so that they can then give that a go. And if it didn't work for them, they can find another option.

SPEAKER_07 1:01:00

Yeah, okay. That's great. I uh maybe we might jump into your toolkit and see. Hopefully, we don't double back over um what we've just spoken about. But I love how you always bring things back to the practical, not just the perfect version of parenting, or um, but what can we actually do in the moment? So if somebody's listening, they've had a rough week with their kids, what's a few simple tools or shift in mindset that they can try straight away to make things feel a little calmer or a little more connected? Have you got some basic things for us?

SPEAKER_03 1:01:27

Yep. So uh I would say that there is a bit of a there's a bit of an issue at the moment where because the parents have lost their ability to parent in terms of skill set because the the change has been so big and it hasn't filtered through yet. Uh for for I'm not saying everybody, I'm just saying for a majority, right? Uh they um they're going to they they've given the uh the responsibility of teaching to the to the schools. The schools aren't designed like that, they're not equipped to be able to do that. I can tell you now that is uh a big, big issue that is systemic right now. Okay, where the where the schools are doing parenting. Oh right. Legit. And that that's an issue? That's an issue because it's they're not there to teach, they're not there to parent, they're there to teach. So then what do the teachers do? They get their teachers are there to give information. So they give all this information, heaps, and then parents do the same thing. And they give them all this information, or they give them none, right? Where's the happy medium between the two? How do I give a child information that they need right now that I can tell news, as opposed to um and being practical, as opposed to going, um, I'm too busy, I can't deal with that, or I can't give you information about that, or I'm too um fearful of opening up about my story around the thing that you just did, because I don't want to traumatize you. You're not gonna traumatize them, give it to them, they'll be able to work with it, right? Um so being mindful of the communication we have with them in that sense, so that it's all toolkit based, right? Um the there was something I was gonna say about that actually, and it just sort of sick my mind. But um I I would uh always always check in without overdoing it. So we check in how how you going with all this stuff today, how's school today? Um and then digging deeper, pride deeper because you you care, not because you want to know the information, it's just because you care, and then they'll give you some information, some really cool stuff, and then always ask the question, don't give advice. So they might say, Well, you know, I was at school and his teacher, blah, blah, blah. Okay, how are you gonna manage that? Yeah, right? Don't give them the advice, don't jump into the story. As soon as you become part of the story, you're no longer powerful.

SPEAKER_07 1:03:53

So then it's like, okay, well, what um like an impartial mediator rather than the the boss of the situation or coachy, coachy, yeah, or coaching. Love that.

SPEAKER_03 1:04:03

That is a hundred percent coaching because what we're doing is we're giving them the tools to fix their own problems and navigate worth. Yes, because we're we're asking questions or for them to explore. Yeah, and then if they give you an answer, well, uh, and one thing that I generally get from kids when I was working in schools, they'll say, 'I'll like, oh, I had this problem with this teacher,' and I go, 'Well, how are you gonna manage that relationship?' Then they say, they generally say, Fuck that teacher. Yeah, that's for you. I can see that. Okay. So after you've done that, what's the next thing? Right? And they go, Well, I don't know. What about the teacher? Yep, that's a conversation we can have as a teacher, but I want to know what you're gonna do because you're responsible for 50% of it. And you're sort of what are you gonna do? Yep. And then they're like, okay, well, I need to do this. Okay, cool. That's a really good idea. Have you thought about this? Right? And then I give them the next thing. Right. And attaches to that idea.

SPEAKER_07 1:04:56

It's not a buy, it's not a you must do this, it's not a suggestion.

SPEAKER_03 1:04:59

No, just have you thought about this. Right. And that's the mentoring bit. So then it's like, okay, well, no, I haven't thought about that. Most of the time they haven't thought about it. Oh, that's a really good idea. Yeah, it probably is. Um, is that gonna work for you? Yeah, it's gonna work for me. I'll give it a go. Cool, give it a go and let me know how you go. Okay, on and off they go, right? And sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't. That's okay. They need to fail, they need to find their own feet. If you do it all for them, they're not equipped, they have zero skills, they need to be skillful. How do we build up their skill sets? How do we build up the skill sets to deal with the relationships and stuff? Because they're very important. Relationships build emotion. Emotion is then a motivator. What motivation do we want them to have? So, questions are really good. Question, question, question. And question with the idea of coaching, not with the idea of finding out information.

SPEAKER_07 1:05:54

Question with the idea of coaching, not with the idea about finding out information.

SPEAKER_03 1:05:58

Yeah, so like how are you going to go about? So tell me more. Right? Tell me more about that.

SPEAKER_07 1:06:06

So less gossipy and more coaching. And allowing the conversation to flow so they can support the ideas and navigate in their own brains. So you're just expanding on that. You're just keep you know, kicking that can down the road so that they can unpack it themselves.

SPEAKER_03 1:06:19

Yes. Yeah. And then organically, you'll build people that have skills to be able to manage themselves.

SPEAKER_07 1:06:26

Which is resilience, right? That's what they're at. Love that. Good one. Want to move on to what three things made you happy this week? Not really. I swear you've got to change the segment to something else. What's half a thing that I'm a little bit appreciative in the last hour? So this is our weekly pause where we finish on a bit of a high note and find, I don't know, some of the lighter moments in life that can get lost in the chaos. Luke, as always, I will go first. I've got some good ones. I went to the grand final. Big day, but it was very fun, and I feel very privileged that I was able to access tickets to a friend. And um my way of repaying that fable was I coached his son in cricket about a week and a half, two weeks later, and I said, Hey mate, this one's on me. No charge. Thanks very much for your support. So that um that was awesome. I played night golf with my daughter Harlem. My dad sort of ran it, ran it for a charity called Weapon Flourish. That was at Royal Park Golf Club, which is pretty cool. So legitimately, golf balls that you switch on and they line up and they're as hard as rocks, they're not normal golf balls, but it was a bit of a pitch and putt type thing. Holes were between 20 metres and 120 metres, and you played in the night, and they were of courses set up with LED lights, but it was pretty cool. Um and having my daughter out there and she had a ball, mate. She was she had glow sticks and she was running around and she was hitting some putts, and then she got sick of putting and she started throwing the ball. But it's um it was kind of nice. First time of taking my daughter out after her bedtime. So, like genuinely, we went to the movies in the morning and watched Gabby's dollhouse, and I sat in the Mac on my phone and ate popcorn. Um, and then she had a sleep in the afternoon, but we were back out. We left the house at seven o'clock. Um, her bed on's seven o'clock. So um that was a nice experience, a bit of a first beat of dad to take your daughter in the car when it's out dark. She did say something to me, which I thought was pretty funny, Luke, when we're out driving. She goes, Oh, look at all of the red lights. And I realised because she's never been out driving at night, she'd never seen brake lights in cars. So, yeah, it's just sort of even at five years old, there's all these first pop-ups. That was pretty cool. And I finished a commissioned painting of Keith Richards, a big one that I've been working on for a fairly long time. It was quite a sizable painting. It was 900mm by 600mm, quite bigger than I'm used to. So we got there in the end. So I was glad to finish that. So they were my three things. Um, and all I did in a sneaky fourth, I secured Ashes tickets about an hour and a half ago, but day one of the Boxing Day. So um, very sport related, but I'm pretty sporty, so that was cool, mate. What one thing are you appreciating my?

SPEAKER_03 1:08:53

You know what? Um, I'm not very appreciative of this paint. I mean, I can tell you that much. It's kind of the opposite of what we're going for here, small wins checking. Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 1:09:04

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 1:09:04

Yeah. Well, if we're going for a small win, yeah, you know, uh, I still got up and went to work. Had a boy. Um, so that's very small win, but uh kind of big considering the pain. Um yeah, what else am I grateful for? I would say uh I'm grateful for my family because they're very supportive of you know, there's a lot of things happening around us at the moment um that uh quite impactful. Uh and uh our family just my family, my immediate family, I'm talking about wife and kids, they've just gone, no, we're not dealing with that. We're not taking that shit, we're going here, we're gonna do something different. Um, and so that that supports me really cool. Um, because being a lot of it's been aimed at me. Uh and so that's um that that's been good. Um and I am appreciative of this topic we talked about because it's something I'm you're passionate about. And it's not uh an easy one to digest if you're listening to it, because unfortunately, it's gonna make you question what you do as a parent. Uh it did when I had to have that conversation with me, uh, and uh it makes you what you mean had to have the conversation. Well, somebody had that conversation with Mark Sue, right? I mean, uh, you know, about and when I was learning about all this stuff, it was like, you know, we could do things differently. Um, not that the parenting really needs to change much for me, but it was more um how do I manage myself so that my cancene I could do, right? Um and that was it was a difficult, it was a difficult time. And I I I like this question and I keep using it. So all that happened now while I want, right? So now you're here now. All the parenting stuff that you did before has happened now, right? Um what's my priority? What do I want to what do I wanna? It doesn't have to be a massive shift either. It doesn't have to be, but I change everything because some of the things you do were probably very, very good, right? That you maybe don't respect. But uh what do I want it to look like now? What do I want to give my kids? This is one question that I I'm sitting with a lot right now. Oh my god, it just it plagues me. This one question is if I was gone tomorrow, would my kids be okay? Right? What have I given them? Have I given them enough so they could work it out?

SPEAKER_05 1:11:31

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 1:11:32

And I don't know. I don't know if I'll ever have a positive answer to that question, but uh it's one that's plaguing me a lot recently. Um probably in the last probably four or five months. Um it's just sat with me the whole time. It's like, well, okay, well, if it if I feel as though there's something that's missing, what am I gonna g am I gonna give it to now? And the answer is yes, I'm gonna give it to him.

SPEAKER_07 1:11:54

I've got a uh a difficult question to ask you to finish off this episode, but what it's a big one. What um what sort of legacy do you want to leave for your kids? When all is said and done, when they look back on you as a dad, what is it you want them to know about who you were as a person?

SPEAKER_03 1:12:15

I don't care. What I do care about is uh how they look back at themselves. I couldn't give a shit what do you think of that? Well, that is the legacy, isn't it? What I want them to do is to be able to go, do you know what? Uh I've got this opportunity, whatever it is that they're doing and they're into at the time, and I'm gonna go for it. Right? Whatever it is, I'm just gonna go for it. I'm gonna second guess nothing going for it. Because not because my dad taught me, because that's who I am. Right. And I should never have to come into that. That's the way I see it anyway. I should never come into that. You just you you go you guys go do your thing that you want to do because that's the thing that aligns with who you are. Go and do it. You you don't need me for that. I go and do it. I don't want to die, I call him the the worst part about death was um when my grandfather passed away, he was the first major death in our family at the time. And he was everybody called him dad, even dad, even my cousins, right? They called him dad. Uh when he died, everybody looked back on the things that he would he did and said and uh and how much of a good person he was. But we got caught up in it for such a long time. To the point where uh on the anniversaries of his death, it was oh this is dad day. And and at the time I really enjoyed that time, but we got caught up in the grief for too long. I want my kids not to do that. Okay, you grieve for as long as you need to grieve, right? Go do your thing, fuck that. Don't get stuck here, go go do your thing. You know, I I I'll be up there watching and going, yo, fucking go. Don't stand here, go. Um, so I really get uh I like the question, I really do.

SPEAKER_06 1:14:06

And my definitely up there, not down there.

SPEAKER_03 1:14:09

Yeah, wherever you want. I like the question you asked, yeah, but for me, I wouldn't give a shit.

SPEAKER_06 1:14:17

I actually really like that answer. It's more about what you've given them rather than who you are.

SPEAKER_07 1:14:21

More who they are than what I've given them. Mate, that is it for our episode on parenting. Um, I do ask our listeners to go back and listen to episode 11 being human with Mitch Johnson, which um leads us into we'd like to do it a little bit more around that sort of space and get in a few different guests. If you do have someone that you think might be interesting, um feel free to flick us an email, lifespumpsbruises at gmail.com or DM any of our socials, which is Instagram or Facebook under the same name. Um that's obviously lifespumps and bruises. But yeah, if you just go, hey, I listened to this episode with Mitch, I think this person's got an interesting story. Flick us a message, tell us about who they are. If we think they're interesting, we'll get them on. Like that we want to talk to real people about real shit. Um, and I thought that was awesome. But that is it on our episode of parenting, mate. Um, thanks for beer cups.

SPEAKER_03 1:15:09

What I can just see it in your eyes. You you're up for this last week, mate.

SPEAKER_07 1:15:14

Thank you so much for your time, and I'll see you next Tuesday.

SPEAKER_03 1:15:20

Thank you, guys, appreciate it.