When Support Becomes a Bandaid

In this episode, we ask a bigger question: are service dogs sometimes treated as a Band-Aid for barriers society should be fixing?

We talk about the medical and social models of disability, the independence and support service dogs can provide, and what happens when access still depends on businesses, systems, and strangers understanding disability. We also consider the dog’s side of the partnership—the work they perform, the expectations placed on them, and why improving accessibility can’t begin and end with the dog.

Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:01

Welcome back to Unleashed the Service Dog Gals. I'm here with Megan and we are going to be chatting about when support becomes a band-aid.

SPEAKER_01 0:11

And we'll just be real with you because if you've been following along our Instagram, this is our third shot at recording this episode. So if there's anyone out there that also does podcasting, oh my goodness, we are learning all the things because the first time we what was the issue? Oh, my mic turned off. It shut down halfway through. So now we've learned to charge the microphones. Solid basic lesson, but we learned it. Second one, Bridget, what happened?

SPEAKER_00 0:42

Um, this was all on me. We checked our mics fully charged, but I stood. But I forgot to plug in the receptor. Is that what that's called?

SPEAKER_01 0:53

Receptor, adapter. I don't know what it's called, guys, but it's plugged in. So we feel like we are nailing it so far today. And then we had a huge delay. I experienced I was part of that state of emergency in St. Catharines with the dual flooding twice in one week. So we've been delayed. You might see a gap between the episodes. These are all the reasons why we're here today. We're super excited to dive into this topic. And yeah, we're gonna be talking about when support becomes a band-aid.

SPEAKER_00 1:23

So I think about this all the time because I I say it all the time about how much I love what dogs can do. They can do so much for us. But I honestly think there's a limitation to what they can do. And I that's where I want to kind of just start peeling back the layers. Let's bring this into reality because dogs can't fix everything.

SPEAKER_01 1:49

And when you say dogs can't fix everything, there's a limit to what they can do. I can speak from my own experience working in the court system. And one of the things that just always comes to my mind because it affected the people, the victims that were testifying, it affected every single person in the room. But even having a service dog, a facility dog or courthouse dog, whatever you want to call it, in the courtroom, supporting a victim, I'm specifically talking about sexual assault, and then you have the defense come up and say, What were you wearing? And when the answer is a cartoon character-themed pajama outfit, then the dog cannot fix this. The dog cannot fix a broken system where these questions are allowed to even be asked. And even if there's an objection, the insinuation of placing blame onto a victim is already there. The damage has already been done, objection or not. I've seen this enough to see the damage and the impact it has on everyone that's around this line of questioning from defense, but it's not a singular case. Whether it be kids, whether it be someone that's older, this question is asked. And yes, it's objected to, but that's not enough. So this is where we're saying they cannot be an institutional band-aid, they cannot fix. So, yes, okay, that question's gonna upset the victim that's testifying, and the dog can be there to support. Why is the dog having to take on those emotions? And why is the victim having to take on the emotions? What is the relevancy of this question of what were you wearing? Because I I have heard way too many times where it is a cartoon or princess-themed PJ.

SPEAKER_00 3:38

Isn't there a whole museum out there on um displaying the outfits of survivors of sexual violence? Yeah. And you know, you've got little, you know, 90s for children four years old. I actually didn't know this. Is this a thing? I I don't know if it's like a museum or thing, but I honestly think it's there. I think there's something. Oh hold on.

SPEAKER_01 4:01

Um, that would be interesting, actually. That would be a good movement. I know. I'm Googling right now because that would be um, I think really effective. It's just so unfair. Oh did you find it? I didn't make it up, did I? It was an exhibit. An exhibit, it wasn't a museum.

SPEAKER_00 4:20

I knew it was something.

SPEAKER_01 4:21

Well, it's funny because as soon as you said that, I'm like, actually, that would be really powerful. Yep. You have to do your case, you have to try your case, there has to be a defense there. But when the questioning is harmful and the system that is supposed to support the victim is actively participating and harming them, to even it should not even be allowed. This question should not be allowed.

SPEAKER_00 4:42

Not to get too academic on you, but I would also argue that the system is not set up to support the victim.

SPEAKER_01 4:48

I agree. I would well sitting watching, it is not. No, there's all these things of like, oh, when you go through the court process, justice will be served. And it's like when you watch someone at the end of a trial, and uh even victims who testify, they just hope for the end that there'll be some feeling of relief or feeling of justice, and it is such a brutalized process. It's not only re-traumatizing, it is traumatizing in the very nature of how it is handled. Yes, there are lots of things that are going into place to try and support. There are victim witness agencies that are court support workers to offer support. There are support aids, which includes service or facility dogs, courthouse dogs, those are there to support. There's also privacy screens, there's CCTV rooms, which you can sit offside the court so you don't have to see the person that is being accused of the crime. But that all these things being said, it is still such a harmful process.

SPEAKER_00 5:51

So harmful that how many people, I mean, I don't have the statistics in front of me, but there's a large portion of particularly women who don't report because of the traumatizing impact of what reporting does.

SPEAKER_01 6:05

I remember I once was sitting there, oh, it was a victim of domestic violence. And I remember she went in with the crown to have a meeting. And so the victim went in, they wanted to testify, and when they got out of that meeting, and I had heard some of the meeting too, uh, they didn't want to do it anymore. And it was, and I thought, oh gosh, this is terrible. Like she wanted to do this, she wanted justice, and you've essentially deterred her by telling her how brutalizing this process is. And back then, I was new then, back then, I was new in my career, and uh, I thought that is so unfair. You did not give this girl the opportunity. Now, looking back, having seen countless people testify and seeing what that process looks like, I think that crown, I can only speculate, but like I think that crown was trying to almost save watching another person go through the process as it stands.

SPEAKER_00 7:03

I imagine, you know, the the prosecutors that like I imagine these people also experience some trauma from watching these people go through it.

SPEAKER_01 7:13

Yeah, I did. Yeah, yeah. Because you hear you hear all the details of it, you get to know that person. Trials take a long time. So for me, when I was supporting with the facility dog, you get to know the person. And also because you have a dog, you're making very light-hearted hearted conversations. You kind of get to reminisce about pets that they had before, and then you have this, these kind of light-hearted moments mixed in with um these very heavy moments, and then you go in, and then when you hear about the crime, and then you know, because the crown goes first, and then the defense goes, and you know it's about to get worse. And every now and again you get a defense who's very respectful. They ask what they need to ask, and thank you to the ones that do that. They're not trying to tear down a character, no, but they're they're doing their job, but they're doing it from more of a trauma-informed way and in a respectful way while still representing their client. But then you just get the other ones, and it's it's so awful to watch them go through it. There are programs that are now being put in place for uh post-court support, which is very promising, yeah. So I I hope to see more of that. But circling back when we're talking about it can't be a band-aid, we can't fix these harmful systems that are in place, and the dog should not have to take on that emotional labor, nor should the victim that's testifying. So that's what we're saying.

SPEAKER_00 8:41

Yeah. And you know, that's there has been a lot of, like you brought up, there has been a lot of, you know, changes to the way we operate in the court system to help better support the victims. If anyone's interested, Bill C3, the Judges Act, is um made some significant changes to judicial education, educating the judges on these types of issues.

SPEAKER_01 9:06

Yes, we hear that a lot in family court too, where there's just not enough awareness to survivors of domestic violence and what that looks like and how that plays out in family court. So having a lot more education on all crime types. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 9:21

Yeah, and I the reason I love Bill C3 in particular is because it actually brought in education for judges on the link, the violence link. So if animals are being abused, humans might be abused. I'm super summarizing it's all it's a lot more complicated than that. But before then, judges weren't even aware really of that type of violence link. And then we would see victims being re-traumatized because something happened to the animal. There is changes happening to the system itself, but we always have to remember that the system was built how many years ago? And who was it built by? We kind of want to start bringing up those types of questions because is the system operating the way it should, or is it falling off of its original intention?

SPEAKER_01 10:14

That's a great question. Uh, even falling off of its original intention. You're trying to repair something that you almost need the complete overhaul. So I yeah, that's one of the ways. I mean, court is just one of the ways that these dogs can be a band-aid. They are an effective support there. Absolutely. Absolutely. What we're saying is there's different aspects of it that are harmful that they shouldn't have to take on and the victim shouldn't have to take on.

SPEAKER_00 10:41

Yeah. I think another way that they can be a band-aid is if that's all you have as support. Like I have a dog, and when I'm having a tough day, you better believe I'm on the couch curled in with him. And what I all he's not my only support when I'm having rough days. Because putting all of that on him, he's just this little guy who's living his life doing his thing. Um, and I'm just speaking this very abruptly, but I think that when we're talking about disabilities and particularly PTSD, we need more than just a dog to support.

SPEAKER_01 11:20

Yeah, and I think that comes down to education. I mean, institutional band-aids. If people are just having a service dog and that is their only band-aid, that is their only outlet for support, it's not enough. There have to be other modalities of support that they're receiving, whether that be through a therapist, whether that be through working out, whether that be through hiking, a service dog, there have to be so much friends, family, friends, family, sense of community. There have to be multiple areas of outlets that you are gathering support and community and help from, not just the dog. Because when you then that dog is just the band-aid and it will never be enough. It's like that, you know, uh band-aid over like, no, this is really gruesome. But like, you know, your leg, your legs, uh your foot's chopped off or something. I don't know. And you're getting everywhere, and you but you have a scrape on your arm. It's like, oh, let's get the scrape on your arm. No, no, no, no. It's not enough. We need more stop the bleeding.

SPEAKER_00 12:19

We need to make sure a medical doctor can stop that bleeding and that maybe friends and family are helping you with things.

SPEAKER_01 12:25

That was so gruesome. Like, why did I have that example?

SPEAKER_00 12:28

I kind of went to like a compound fracture with the bone sticking out. So I was right there with you.

SPEAKER_01 12:34

Sorry, everyone, I'm a little hunger.

SPEAKER_00 12:37

But yeah, that's what I mean.

SPEAKER_01 12:38

That's what I mean. It's just we have to have multiple areas. And so this when I mean this goes down to education. Um, even yeah, right now there's more challenges with the notes. So in Canada, you require a note to have a service dog, and doctors and psychotherapists, psychologists were writing these notes, but there weren't, it's like, oh, I need a dog. Okay, no problem. And they wrote you a note. Well, no, we have to there the service dog agencies are challenging these notes and they're getting more professionalized staff so that they can challenge these notes effectively to make sure there are other areas where they this person is being supported and the dog isn't going to be taking everything on, which is hard because when it's not from an accredited agency, when there's a lack of funding, it's hard to get these professionals on staff to be able to challenge these or not even challenge, just vet the notes. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 13:35

So I just want to take a pause for a second, but here in Ontario, yeah, all that's really required for a service dog team is a doctor's note.

SPEAKER_01 13:43

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 13:43

Like that, and when I say required, I'm talking about legal requirement.

SPEAKER_01 13:47

Which is a heavy weight when they are not provided enough awareness and education that the dog cannot be it. It can't. That's too much labor on the dog.

SPEAKER_00 13:59

And if you're in Ontario, you know our healthcare system is completely strained right now. So you've got a strained healthcare system, and then these doctors are having to write notes for this. So there's no ability to really move through this in a way that is honoring what service dog teams truly should be.

SPEAKER_01 14:19

And it really comes down to people want to help people. Yeah. And yes, and animal welfare is a consideration in that as well. So it's not that the service dog agency is trying to challenge so that you they don't want you to have the dog, it's that they want you to be very well supported, and there's enough research that there just have to be multiple areas of that.

SPEAKER_00 14:43

Yeah. I think that's what like I personally really do appreciate about the organizations is because they're able to, I mean, their discovery package, like there's a whole application to get in and accept it into their programs, but not all, and I know some of the organizations retain property ownership over the dog. So here in Canada, animals are considered property. Um, so it's very interesting in legal terms, but that benefits in this case because these organizations can maintain ownership so that they can check in and make sure that the team is functioning as they should. It's um and you know, a lot I've heard a lot of people talk about, you know, oh, like let's talk about cruelty in the service dog world. It's not what you think it is. Yeah, it's not, it's not most like it's such a rarity that that would happen. So I don't suspect they retain property ownership because of cruelty situations. In in my view, I see them doing it to make sure that these dogs aren't just a band-aid, that they're making sure that the team functions to their full capabilities, which is the goal of these teams. We place a dog to help. So, I mean, I think that's interesting, and I think that the doctor's note, the like property piece to it, because we I do owner training and the owner retains ownership. So that changes the way owner trainers move through things versus receiving from an organization. Yes.

SPEAKER_01 16:23

And I think because it's owner training, there have to be more challenges, challenging from the organization that's certifying to make sure that it's not a band-aid and to yeah, again, just that what active supports are in there.

SPEAKER_00 16:41

Yeah, absolutely. And I think that's the important piece. In our program, in the program I've created, one of the pieces, so a friend of mine um is doing uh her PhD in disability justice, and she talks to me often about the loneliness epidemic in the disability community, and that got me really thinking about our programs of I don't want to isolate these people into like private. I want to help build this community because community, friends and family, is a big piece of this. Yes. So it's yeah, that was something really important to me to build into our program was making sure community became part of the training.

SPEAKER_01 17:26

I think that's so important, and I think that's important for handlers, whether they have an individual service dog, whether they have a dog, like a facility dog or courthouse dog, that they have an outlet to be able to talk to other people, that they have community. Community is such an important thing, it can be underrated, but when you have a community wherever you find yours, it can also be healing.

SPEAKER_00 17:52

Yeah. I mean, I think like community is big. Isn't there like I don't know, I think there is research on the importance of community for our the longevity, right?

SPEAKER_01 18:02

Yeah, there's have you heard of those blue zone areas? Yeah, and that was one of the the things that each place had was their own forms of community.

SPEAKER_00 18:13

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 18:13

Whether it was through volunteering, whether it was through church, whether it was, I don't know, a gym, whether it was yoga, whatever it was, gardening, book, just that you have a sense of community.

SPEAKER_00 18:25

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 18:25

And people there for you.

SPEAKER_00 18:26

And the blue zones um were a researcher had mapped out areas and called them blue zones for people who were living over a hundred years old. Yes. What were they doing?

SPEAKER_01 18:36

But not just living over a hundred years, throw thriving, yes, yeah. That was big. And going back to I had said at the beginning of this episode about flooding, that has been for myself, my neighbors, my community, it's been devastating having our properties destroyed. The sense of community has been incredible. Like going to my neighbors and having a tea when I normally wouldn't do that because I don't have time. Um, running back and forth at midnight, trying to like hose out each other's basements, making sure another one's not being electrocuted. If you have to get the um electrical box off, like it's it's all these things trying to help each other. Oh, someone else is starting to flood, let's all get together. So having a sense of community, there's nothing better when you're going through it. Yeah. And going back on how this relates to service dogs and owner-trained programs, I think what you're creating is so important for people just to be able to share the commonalities of having a service dog, having an owner-trained service dog.

SPEAKER_00 19:41

Yeah, because having an owner-trained service dog isn't easy. No. But and I'm not saying that an organizationally trained dog is easy either, but there's different challenges for sure for owner trainers because there's isolation. Uh, there's a lot more isolation than I think in that community.

SPEAKER_01 19:58

So that would be another way. So there's the doctor's note, there's the service dog, but that's another form of community that you can have as well. And I'm sure there's groups out there, I'm sure there's Facebook groups and things like that. So just, you know, if you're feeling isolated or that you need a little more support, maybe some of this is resonating. I would say just look, there's always Facebook groups out there.

SPEAKER_00 20:20

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And find your community because it's so important. It's more important than I think we give it credit for. I agree.

SPEAKER_01 20:28

And with that, guys, thank you so much for tuning in to the longest episode in the making. Next, uh, next step, we're gonna be doing talking about the cost to the dog. It kind of piggybacks off of this animal welfare and our moral responsibility within that. So, tune in to the next episode and thank you so much for listening. Unleash the service dog girls. Nope, that's not even our name. Unleash the service dog gals. You guys are amazing for taking this journey with us, Bridget. Keep it together. Okay, bye.