How He Built a $8M BORING Business I’d Never Heard Of

David Heacock sits down with David Wu, founder of Joy Displays, to unpack how he went from $20,000 in savings to building an $8 million profitable business with just nine employees.

This is a conversation about far more than the money. It is about apprenticeship, timing, survival, and what happens when a founder reaches the point where staying small is no longer enough to reach the life or business they say they want.

David Wu spent four years learning the trade show booth industry before launching Joy Displays in 2019. He started with no backup plan, burned through cash early, and then got hit with a brutal twist of timing: just as the business was gaining traction and his wife joined full time, COVID shut down trade shows almost overnight. Orders disappeared, customers canceled, and survival became the only objective. The business pivoted into plexiglass during the pandemic, then eventually returned to its core trade show booth business as the market recovered.

Today, Joy Displays has grown into an $8 million revenue business with a very small team and more than $1 million in annual profit. But this episode is really about the next stage. What do you do when you have a successful, cash-generating business, but know that the habits that got you here are not the same habits that will get you where you say you want to go?

David and David talk through the tension between comfort and ambition, the psychology of staying small, the fear of taking on more complexity, and the difference between building a good lifestyle business versus building a larger long-term asset. They also discuss vertical integration, manufacturing, hiring, modeling risk before making capital investments, and why so many entrepreneurs misjudge the risks of investing in themselves.

This episode is for anyone who has built something real and now feels stuck between protecting what they have and betting on what they could become. It is also a sharp reminder that experience matters, that survival often requires painful pivots, and that real growth usually demands a higher tolerance for responsibility.

Topics covered include:

• Going from $20,000 in savings to $8 million in profitable revenue
• Starting a business in an industry you already understand
• Surviving COVID by pivoting into plexiglass
• Building a lean business with a very small team
• The tradeoff between comfort and ambition
• Why vertical integration may be the next step
• How to think about capital allocation and risk
• Hiring to solve problems you do not yet understand
• The difference between a lifestyle business and a scalable asset
• Why founders need a reason bigger than money

Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:00

We went from$20,000 in the bank to$8 million profitable revenue with nine employees. Yes, by age 50, I will have 250 million in net worth.

SPEAKER_02 0:12

Would you bet your last dollar on a printer, some Facebook ads, and this business you've never thought of starting? This is David Wu. Five years ago, he bet his life savings on his business and it paid off. This episode isn't about his insane journey to becoming a millionaire, it's about how to pivot. I'm David. I own a boring air filter company that makes$23 million a month. I'm talking to real millionaires whose stories, like mine, you can actually copy. This episode will open your eyes to how people actually get rich. That is a big number, but it's definitely achievable.

SPEAKER_00 0:50

My wife actually quit her full-time job and she joined me in pursuing my business. But little did we know, the very next week, that's when COVID. When you say week, you mean year. The next week, literally.

SPEAKER_02 1:05

You're telling me it makes you nervous to make a$200,000 investment and you're making a million dollars a year. It doesn't seem very risky.

SPEAKER_00 1:13

It takes just as much effort to be mediocre than great. How you got started in it? Yeah, so uh I'm the owner of Droid Displays. We sell Trade Show booth stands. And yeah, so uh I've been in e-commerce and marketing um my whole life. Uh right after college, I pretty much took the the first job offer I received. Uh it was a e-commerce store selling women's shoes.

SPEAKER_02 1:46

And yeah, and had you been in e-commerce at all before that, or this was the first that was your first exposure into it out of college?

SPEAKER_00 1:52

Yeah, it was like the first uh real office job, and then I I just took it, yeah, no um prior e-commerce experience. And what and what were you hired to do? I was in a uh trade show producer. Uh they uh build these big trade show booths for companies that attend trade shows, and I guess it's a combination of everything, and uh it kind of guide me through in um starting joy displays. So how long were you working for this other other company? Um at the the trade show booth company, I was there for four years.

SPEAKER_02 2:36

So you're there for there for four years, and then you decided to go and start competing with them?

SPEAKER_00 2:40

Uh I guess you can say um um how what made me start was uh that was around uh when I turned 30, 32, and that was a time when I uh got married. I I just feel like I I wanted something more for my life, and I I was really frustrated with where I was, and I I just feel like quitting my job and start something, you know, just have a better future. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 3:15

But it was but it was something that you knew that you had kind of been an apprentice in that, you know, for for some time. So it was something that it was an industry that you knew well by the time you actually got started.

SPEAKER_00 3:26

Yes. And honestly, um when I when I started, there were a few different ideas, but um ultimately it's joy display, something that I know a lot of that that really uh took off.

SPEAKER_02 3:40

So what so what was the what was the kind of differentiating thing that you decided that you were going to attack that your pre maybe your previous company didn't do, or that um what was your unique spin on it?

SPEAKER_00 3:54

Yeah, so uh they focused more on uh these bigger booths. Uh they would have to uh go on site and do the setup. Um and they're only limited to um certain amount of booth per year because of um their manufacturing capacity. Uh I had a different approach on um on the smaller booth uh where I can ship directly to the customer and they do the setup. Uh I don't have to kind of handle that part of the business. And that that just makes me uh able to scale more.

SPEAKER_02 4:34

Makes sense. So you started this business in 2019, is that correct? Yes. Um and why don't you walk me through um kind of year by year um what that looks like and then how big and tell talk is tell us about the state of your business today?

SPEAKER_00 4:50

Yeah, uh so there were a lot of ups and downs throughout this journey. Uh when I first started, um, the first three months I didn't have any money coming in, and uh I was burning about$2,000 a month just on the ads, and I started with$20,000. Um, and that's all I had. It really hurt seeing um, you know, spending all that money.

SPEAKER_02 5:16

So that$20,000 was what you had to decide you were going to invest in the business, or that was all the money that you had to and you had to make it work?

SPEAKER_00 5:24

It was all the money I had.

SPEAKER_02 5:26

So you had$20,000 saved up and you decided you're gonna go into business for your own, for for yourself. Yes, that that is correct. And you gotta pay your living expenses and everything. Like that, that is, that's that that's all you got.

SPEAKER_00 5:37

I guess um uh it was uh around month eight of starting the journey where um the ads kind of picked up and things were going well, and my wife actually quit her full-time job and she joined me um in pursuing uh my business. Um the first week went really great, and we even um had lobster and steak dinner just to celebrate. But little did we know the very next week, that's when COVID hit.

SPEAKER_02 6:12

When you say week, you mean year.

SPEAKER_00 6:14

Uh the next week, literally.

SPEAKER_02 6:17

The next week after after you started your business? Uh the next week after she joined me. Ah, so so okay. So you started your business eight months in, you got enough traction that you're like, okay, I'm onto something, and you have enough money to pay your bills and and your wife for your wife to quit her job. And then the next week, COVID happened.

SPEAKER_00 6:36

Yes. That is great timing. I know, right?

SPEAKER_02 6:41

And yeah, at that time, like how much how much revenue were you doing at that point, or like you know, like how much money were you making a month? Like what walk me through like what it was kind of before, and then what what happened when COVID hit?

SPEAKER_00 6:54

Yeah. So uh when she joined me, I guess, um I think we were doing about um the the profit we were receiving was about 10,000. It was, you know, like just enough for both of us. Yep. And yeah, and when COVID hit, um, there was like literally nothing. Customers were calling to cancel their order because their show got canceled. And after that, we didn't have any money coming in for months. Uh and it was at that point we we just have to kind of do whatever we could to survive. Um and we tried to sell many different things, we tried to um post stuff on Etsy, try to sell different things, but one thing did pick up was uh these plexiglass uh that business buy to protect their uh employees. Yep. And um that really gave us traction and um we kind of just um really focused on that and um for the next two, three years uh we were just selling plexiglass instead.

SPEAKER_02 8:07

So you pivoted from trade store booths, which you knew, to PEX to plexiglass to survive during COVID.

SPEAKER_00 8:14

Yes.

SPEAKER_02 8:15

And how are you sourcing that?

SPEAKER_00 8:17

Um yeah, so uh uh one of the supplier that produced Trade Show booth, they they had something, you know, hey, they were just like, hey, we have this, and then we didn't know what it was. We just put it online, put some ads on it, and then I guess there was a demand for it. And um and the stuff would actually get sold out very quickly. And I think at that time we're like, oh, we gotta find new suppliers. So we went on Thomas.net, um, and then just whatever we could to find supplier to kind of feed the demand.

SPEAKER_02 8:54

Yep. And so you did that for two to three years, but you were all then but then you got back into trade show booths, so walk me walk me through that.

SPEAKER_00 9:03

Yeah, um, so after that, uh we didn't know how well the trade show industry can can be. Um, but I guess we um we really just focus whatever we can, and we even signed a three-year lease uh for office and warehouse so we can um purchase these displays and uh hire employees. But it did work out. Um I think that was um probably the fourth year of business we were able to uh generate about four million in sales.

SPEAKER_02 9:48

So you went from uh zero in twenty nineteen, twenty twenty early twenty twenty to four million in sales in like twenty twenty-three? Uh yes. And and that was primarily the plexiglass or that was the trade booths?

SPEAKER_00 10:03

Um that was the trade booth. Uh for the plexiglass, we're doing about two million a year. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 10:10

And did you get out of that, did you move out of that completely and go just all in on trade booths, or you were doing you were doing both?

SPEAKER_00 10:16

Yeah, so there is like a funny period. It kind of overlapped. Uh people were still buying plexiglass, and then people were buying trade booths, and uh ultimately um all the plexiglass was done after COVID.

SPEAKER_02 10:31

So you basically um you you basically went to pay plexiglass, and then you got out of that and you got back into trade booths, but by 2023 you'd done$4 million in in trade booths, trade show booths. And I'm guessing it's because there was like a COVID rebound where people started going to trade shows at scale again, and they probably needed to kind of change out all their trade show stuff.

SPEAKER_00 10:54

Yeah, um definitely. And um I don't think I had a um a really good run for trade show booth because it was about um month eight when COVID hit, and we didn't really kind of um had a hundred percent prepare just to see uh how much demand there were. So uh coming off plexiglass and seeing that demand, it was very reassuring.

SPEAKER_02 11:24

And so walk me through like what your team looked like by time by 2023. If you're doing four million dollars a year, like what what what what did your team look like at that point?

SPEAKER_00 11:34

Yeah, so um our team is very small. Um by 2023 we had about uh four employees. Uh it was me. So you did four million dollars with just of revenue with just four employees. Yes. Um so we don't do our own printing. Uh we have suppliers that um that manufacture and ship directly to the customer, and yeah, we we're able to stay very small but still hit that revenue.

SPEAKER_02 12:09

And so what did you do from 2023 to now? What did that look like?

SPEAKER_00 12:15

Um yeah, so um in 2025 we did 8 million in in sales, and um right now we have a team of nine people, still relatively very small, small team.

SPEAKER_02 12:29

So from 2019 to to to now, so basically five years, um you went from$20,000 in the bank and you know nothing to eight million dollars of of revenue, of profitable revenue with nine employees. Yes, that's very impressive. Thank you. Um so walk me through what a typical day in the life for David looks like today. Like what is what is it what is a typical day in your life?

SPEAKER_00 12:56

Yeah, so um uh we open Monday through Friday, 8 to 5. I I would go into the office. Right now, I I am a little bit kind of clustered. Um, I think last week I was doing B-rolls for um like all these products we brought in. And um also I um I have two people that help with marketing and um just having meetings and kind of um planning for this year. What are some strategies to target all the companies that attend trade shows?

SPEAKER_02 13:37

So I guess when when we sat down, we I pointed out the book Traction, which is behind you, which I think is a great um, you know, kind of business operating system, um, or at least something to give you a framework for a business operating system. Would you say that that you're at a point now where you need to think through like what the operating system of your business is if you wanted to continue to grow it? Um could you repeat that? Yeah, sure. Um I'm just saying, like I I guess my my um like you you did not answer that question with a lot of confidence um of like what what do you actually it's a common problem that basically every every entrepreneur I think goes through at some point where you know what got you to from zero to eight million dollars a year is not what's going to it's not gonna be the same activity that gets you to whatever the next level is, right? And I think that a lot of times people get stuck kind of in that operational zone um where you know they have a good business, but um oftentimes it's a it's more of a job than a business, and and to really turn that you know into a real asset is a different is a different set of um skills, and I think, and I think that that's something that um you know maybe we can unpack a little bit more today. If you did not show up to work for the next month, what would your business look like?

SPEAKER_00 15:00

Um so if I don't show up for the next month um and then I come back to work, um I would think um the business still runs, but I would come back to a lot of fire. Uh people would say, like, um, you know, like there is like this customer that has something wrong with the order or something like this. Um just a lot of fire I might have to put out. Because even though they handle day-to-day operations, uh still a lot of things it does require me to make the decision. So if I'm not there for a month, I would feel like I have to put out a lot of fire.

SPEAKER_02 15:43

Aaron Powell So you think it would survive, but you think it would be you it would be starting to deteriorate. Yes, I think so. Yeah. Yeah. Give me an example of a of a fire that maybe you've had to put out recently that only that only you could put out.

SPEAKER_00 15:58

Yeah. Um so uh I'm in the trade show industry and trade show only happen within three to five days. Something that is um a big fire I have to put out would be the customer not getting their stuff on time for the trade show. And um whenever something like that does happen, it's very rare. Um we would have to kind of contact the supplier and do whatever we could to um reprint the stuff, reship the stuff. And yeah, that that's something so why is that something only you can do? Um I guess um the sales manager can do that as well. Perhaps uh it's the urgency, how how much focus that um that they will handle. Like for me, like I will call the the supplier, you know, day in and day out every hour, every 10-15 minutes. You know, maybe someone else, you know, hey, I I sent the email, I made the phone call, but hey, no one answered. Like I'm sorry.

SPEAKER_02 17:16

Yeah, because um you're you're um as a business owner, um your neck is on the line, and so you're going to do whatever it takes, and then and and an employee is oftentimes is not going to have the same urgency. The same urgency. Yeah. What are some things you could do um so that maybe it could be handled without you?

SPEAKER_00 17:38

Yes. Um I I would love, you know, in in the future, I would like to get into printing. I would love to get into manufacture and produce my own goods. Yeah. This way I can um test fit everything, making sure everything goes right and the customer gets exactly what they need at the right time.

SPEAKER_02 18:02

Yeah, I I I think that makes makes a lot of sense. And and so like ultimately, you know, once you like one lesson or something I think is worth thinking about when people are are thinking about um business models and ideas. And what I love about your story up to this point is um you worked in another you worked in this industry for a while first before you started the business. So why you only started with$20,000 and no backup plan, um, but you came in with experience, like you knew what you were getting into, which I think is very smart. I think a lot of people go into go into businesses not knowing um what they're getting into, um, but you came in having that experience, which I I think is a is is uh one of the lessons that I would I would um point to people from from your experience. Um but then um you've kind of taken take you you've you've um gotten some amount of scale in this business by um kind of using your knowledge and and um you know figuring it out. Um and now you're at a point where you can start um de-risking yourself from this bus business or building building systems around the business, which is ultimately through vertical, vertically integrating, um which is what which is what you're what you're talking about, would be which which seems like it would be a smart next step.

SPEAKER_00 19:18

I think so. I agree. So um what's keeping you from doing that? I'm so comfortable at staying small. Um, but I guess in one of your video you mentioned that um it it takes just as much effort to be mediocre than great. Honestly, I haven't really thought about the lifestyle that comes with it. Um I've been very frugal all my life, and as much as I I want to think about, I want uh, you know, that bowl, that jet, that that nice fancy house. And and believe me, um I've been looking at houses that's around like you know, two, three million dollar range, but uh with all the expense, it it still does not make sense to me at the moment.

SPEAKER_02 20:14

Yeah, so which I totally get, and I think you know, being frugal is an important part of being able to to build a business. And and um, but you know, what is it I guess you know when you're when you're setting that goal, it's obviously you like it's a number that you share with me. So you have a monetary goal, which is a big, big monetary goal. Uh, but what does that really represent for you? Like, what do you want to get from that?

SPEAKER_00 20:41

Yeah, I I think when I set that goal, it's almost like kind of keeping myself on track to see if I can push myself to my pro top potential. Like, can it's almost like something that, you know, like am I kind of pushing myself to the limit to get to where I want to be? I don't know if that answered the question. Yeah, I get it.

SPEAKER_02 21:07

I think that, you know, and I think it's common for um high achieving people, like you're like what you're telling me is you've set a goal, but you don't really know why you've set it. And I think that maybe this is where we need you need to actually spend time thinking, um thinking through like what does this actually mean for you, right? What does that what does that number actually mean for you? And you picked a you picked a big number, but it sounds like it's quite a random big number, right? Um which is there's nothing wrong with that. But I think if you really want to like one of the biggest challenges you're gonna have in hitting that number, I suspect, is um you're is something you're not gonna be able to do on your own. You're gonna have to bring in a a team of people around you, like in with employees and and people that are gonna have to come along for this mission, right? And they're not going to be as excited about a monetary number in all likelihood. And I think that's why having a big vision that is maybe separate from money. Yeah, the number is oftentimes a more um compelling thing, both for yourself. It sounds like the reality is, even if you had the money you're talking about, my guess knowing you and the little bit of time we've known each other, it probably doesn't change your lifestyle nearly as much as as you might think it does. Because maybe you'll you'll have that the the house that you want. But um aside from that, you'd find that most of your day-to-day is largely the same.

SPEAKER_00 22:46

I think so.

SPEAKER_02 22:47

So so so that's probably so if you're really going to attach your something, yourself to something, and like it I think it needs to, you know, you you you need to have a more emotional reason for um having a having you need to have a more emotional goal, I guess.

SPEAKER_00 23:05

Why am I doing this?

SPEAKER_02 23:07

Yeah, I think I think if you can understand that, then you can tap you're gonna be able to tap into a whole new level of intensity that you know would actually ironically get you to the monetary goal that you're saying that you that you say that you want.

SPEAKER_00 23:20

Yeah, that that makes a lot of sense. I I'll definitely think about that. And how do I even think about the why? Is there certain things that I can do to get there or like figure out that why, the reason?

SPEAKER_02 23:36

Well, at the end of the day, it's a that's a very personal, personalized thing, right? I mean, everybody's wired, everybody is wired differently and has um very different drivers. Um and I think that um you know ultimately it's it's a it's something worth doing soul searching about. I mean, I think that um, you know, I guess like let's maybe circle back to this, but like let's think about your bit your eight million dollar a year business today, right? Um I'm guessing it's a fairly profitable eight million, eight million dollar a year business. Um, you know, are you would would you share how profitable it is? Is that something you're comfortable talking about?

SPEAKER_00 24:18

Yeah, of course. Uh so uh last year uh we made over a million dollars. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 24:25

What are you doing with the with your money?

SPEAKER_00 24:28

Um I guess to answer your question, I I don't really spend you know on like these expensive things. I don't buy um big houses or like these nice cars. If I do spend the money, it's probably on food and travel experiences.

SPEAKER_02 24:45

So you've just been saving cash, like you don't you don't invest in stocks or real estate or anything, it's just cash. I know the uh the viewers are going to hate me like you have this big goal for 11 years from now. Um what is it going to take for you to achieve that goal?

SPEAKER_00 25:06

I would love to vertically integrate the business. Um right now I'm only doing smaller booth sizes. Um if I do I I would love to um also um build these big booths at the convention center.

SPEAKER_02 25:27

I would like to so you're telling me potential business uh ideas um but to ten times your business is gonna take a you know more strategic uh uh approach, right? Like do you think you can ten times your business just in just in trade show boosts? You think that the market is big enough for that? Is that is that the plan, or do you think you're gonna have to expand? Like walk me through that.

SPEAKER_00 25:55

Um yeah, I uh I'm I'm really not sure how far just that you know that trade show boot business can take me. And if I do want to achieve that monetary amount, um I do feel like I have to invest in something that can compound over time um to to meet that goal as well. But I I I'm not sure if if I want to start something completely new where it's shifting focus from what I'm doing. Um, I don't know, any advice for me?

SPEAKER_02 26:34

You say how do I do it? You don't you don't know how to do it. Um and you know one of my favorite tactics for that, for that, and something that I would I would recommend doing is you definitely have competitors that sell to or definitely have competitors um in the space that have salespeople, and or there are probably companies that sell to trade show vendors um that are maybe in different niches. Um and what I would do is you know, go on it, go on LinkedIn, post a job in a job description, um, maybe spend a little bit of money on ads um to get to get people to interview. And then in the interview process, this is when you're going to find um how other companies do it. Then I will post a description of what I'm looking for or a similar job title. I would use like Chat GPT to help me say, like, what is the job title for this person that I could post, like a generic one. Um, and then I would see who was applying and I would find interesting potential candidates and I would interview them. And um, then in that interview process, you're gonna get clarity as to what you're looking for, and then through interviewing people, you're going to find, you know, hopefully like the right fit, or you're gonna say, hey, like this is the type of person I'm looking for, but they don't have these qualities. Maybe if I just tweak this a little bit, then then you know you'll know exactly what you're looking for. Does that make sense?

SPEAKER_00 28:01

Yeah, and um that that helps a lot. Um definitely um have um post on LinkedIn, find the people that that's already been doing it, ask them questions and uh just get insight of what works.

SPEAKER_02 28:19

But you're doing it like legitimately wanting to hire, like you want to hire for this role. You just may not know exactly what it is. So you take a crack at it, yeah. Take a crack at a job description. Um, you find people that seem like they maybe can fit the bill, but through that is how you're going to understand. You can understand like then you're gonna like when you're interviewing them, a lot of times it's about interviewing how how is this work in the company where they are.

SPEAKER_00 28:43

I I love that so much because this I can apply pretty much in every aspect. If I want to start printing my own things, I don't know where to start, and I can use the same strategy, but you know, on the printing side.

SPEAKER_02 28:59

And that and that's how you that's ultimately how you scale a business, right? Because you you don't know um nobody knows you know exactly how to you know do all of these aspects of a business, but you learn through kind of trial and error and to kind of do like first principles thinking. And what I say is I know somebody out there has solved this problem. I mean, all these problems like and and a lot of times it may not even be somebody in your exact industry, maybe a different industry, but you want you're trying to find somebody who has solved the type of problem that you're looking to solve, right? And then you go out and you find them and you figure it out with them. Um and that's how you do that over and over again, and that's ultimately how you scale. You said you stated that you want to vertically integrate. And I agree with you, like for you to scale both both to make yourself more profitable, so you're gonna make more money, I would hope, if you're gonna vertically integrate, um, but also makes makes you more competitive, allows you to scale, offer better customer service. These are all the reasons why I vertically integrated and why you stated that you aspirationally want to vertically integrate. Um but every time I we bring it up, um you you start sweating a little bit. You say, oh, I've been manufacturing. So so so like what like what that's like what's so scary about what's what's so scary about it, and what's like why are we not saying in 2026 this is the year we're gonna start?

SPEAKER_00 30:18

Yeah, um it is scary because um I had a tour with like these printers, and these printers are expensive and they and then they they break, and you need to hire a technician to come fix it. And they're just a lot of moving parts. Uh for the previous years I have stayed so small and relatively profitable, but now if I really want to get to the goal that I need, I need to kind of remove those fear and kind of like, you know, do that and face my fear.

SPEAKER_02 30:56

Yeah, well, I guess to reframe it a little bit, you're not going to get where you want to go without taking on more responsibility. That's just like that's that's just life. I mean, like if you like if you want um if you have big expectations, that means you're gonna have big responsibility. And and part of that is going to be figuring out how to solve these types of problems and be being willing to to accept it. But you're at a point where you know you have like you say these printers are expensive, but you have a very healthy business that um, you know, puts you in a position where it would not make me nervous to advise you to say it's okay to take some risk to go out and do it. Um and remember when you go out and you buy a expensive printer or whatnot, um, you're hugely tax advantaged to doing it. Do you know about accelerated depreciation?

SPEAKER_00 31:47

Yeah, um I I know uh these big machineries, I can probably write it off the first year. And that that would help a lot.

SPEAKER_02 31:57

Correct. So like if you're making a million if you made make a million dollars, presumably um you're you know paying 300 or 400 grand in taxes on on that million dollars.

SPEAKER_00 32:07

Well, um if you like how much is a how much is a printing machine going to cost if you're if you're gonna um uh I think it it um can't be like about a hundred fifty thousand to a quarter million. Yeah, they're pretty expensive.

SPEAKER_02 32:23

Yeah, but but um I think that you're like you know, you started this business with twenty thousand dollars eight years ago, and um that was all you had, and now you're telling me you're making a million dollars a year and you're not willing to risk 200 grand of that to have the chance to to to to put yourself in a position to be able to continue to scale um to ultimately hit your goals. Seems seems a little seems a little off, doesn't it?

SPEAKER_00 32:52

I will do it. I I'm going to tap into manufacturing.

SPEAKER_02 32:57

I have but well, it's not that I'm like I don't know if manufacturing is good or not for you. Like I don't know enough about the actual unit economics of this, or so like I I don't I'm not just blindly telling you to do it. Um but what I'm what I'm trying to get you to understand is that you know your you know um your kind of mental risk meter seems a little bit off to me. Like if you say, oh, this is so like if you told me it was a five million dollar investment for you, then I would say, I get it. Like that's that's that's pretty risky. Um, you know, if you're only making a million dollars a year and you're saying it's gonna take a five million dollar investment for you to vertically integrate. We want to really understand because you're gonna have to go out and get a lot of extra incremental business to make it work, right? But you're telling me it makes you nervous to make a$150,000 to$200,000 investment when you're making a million dollars a year. Like that's like the the that doesn't seem very risky. Like I hear that and I think, well, it's a no-brainer. It sounds like a no-brainer if that's your barrier to entry to starting to vertically integrate. I see. Um and so I'm just trying to understand how I'm I'm trying to understand how you make that risk calculation.

SPEAKER_00 34:09

Yeah. Um maybe that can go back to um where I was in setting goals. You know, my goal was relatively small. I want it to um stay small and so basically you're comfortable at your million dollars a year.

SPEAKER_02 34:25

You say you say you want this big, this, this big goal, but you're not you don't you don't really you don't really want it because I do want it.

SPEAKER_00 34:34

I do want it, but um I I I have to do it um because I I recently just set a goal for myself to get to uh when I'm when I turn 50 and now I have no choice, I have to do it.

SPEAKER_02 34:51

Well it definitely feels to me that starting the process of figuring out how to vertically integrate to give you more optionality to scale to offer better customer service seems like the obvious next step. And if you're telling me that the cost of doing that is, you know,$200,000 or even like let's say$300,000 after setup costs and everything, um, when you're making a million dollars a year, um I feel like that's a um that's a risk worth taking to be able to achieve your to get put yourself in the situation of being on the path to achieving your dreams. It sounds very reassuring, you know, coming from you. Yeah. Well, you ultimately have to do it and you have to believe in it. I mean, I don't know. I mean, you know, the thing I would caution, and I think we actually are about to put out a video on this, um, but it's, you know, I would never recommend you go out and just vertically integrate blindly. I think that um there are a lot of times in a lot of businesses where it probably doesn't make sense because like the like you don't have enough volume to justify it, or um, there are lots of reasons why vertically integrating does not make sense. So I don't want to sit here and say everybody should be vertically integrated. Like that's not that's not the the point. Um but you know, you did highlight it as being a bottleneck from you being able to offer the best customer experience and to being able to systematize it. Um and you know that that's why we kind of went there. But ultimately, you need to understand like what are the economics if you do choose to vertically integrate, how does that change your change your cost? Um, you know, what other how much more complex is it really going to make your business? Um, like you do need to model all of that out. Yes. And like like when I got into the to air filters, you know, I modeled out to the penny like the cost of making a filter, the cost of delivering a filter, like what the like all the way back to like I knew what the customer was paying for it at the time. And then I was like reverse engineered, how much of that is in shipping, how much of that is in the box cost, how much of that is in the filter cost itself, how much of that, um, and then within the filter cost is there, there are five components that go into an air filter. So I understood each of those components. I understood, and then I understood the labor of putting those five components together. Um, I went, you know, through I went through that full exercise before I decided to actually start vertically integrating, right? So like it wasn't something that I just said, oh, it sounds good to vertically integrate. I actually went through and understood the actual economics of what I expected to get. So before you even make that$200,000 investment, I want you to do that. Yes, right. Um you need to understand like what you're hoping to get back from that$200,000 investment. Make sure it does make sense. Like I'm not blindly telling you to do it. Um, but I'm saying that like if the only but if you're if but if you do all of that and you're saying it makes sense, but you're scared um when you're making a million dollars a year to make a$200,000 investment in your business that you understand, I'm saying that makes no, that's irrational. You understand? Yes, yes, but you gotta do the work on that, like you gotta understand like what it is you're actually looking to achieve, achieve at the end of the day for order, like what the egg, like make sure it really does make sense. Um, you know, and and um like you're gonna have to go and do that work. I mean, I'm I I just want to make sure we're clear, like it's not just hey, go buy this machine for the sake of it. You gotta you gotta it's gotta really make sense with with your long-term scaling plan.

unknown 38:17

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 38:18

I got a lot of work to do.

SPEAKER_02 38:20

Yeah, yeah, you do, but but but you're in a great starting point. I mean, you're at an enviable starting point. Um, but if you really want to get to your big goal, if you're gonna if you're gonna throw out a big number like that even privately, then we're gonna have to back it up. And to back it up is gonna take a lot of action.

SPEAKER_00 38:38

I agree.

SPEAKER_02 38:40

I'm really trying to understand why you have like what's really been keeping you from doing it. You think it's just inertia because you're comfort you're comfortable?

SPEAKER_00 38:48

Uh I think so. Yeah. It's just um it's it's very comfortable to stay small, have a small team, no overhead. Um And you sleep well at night, but you got a lot of cash in the bank.

SPEAKER_02 39:01

So that's good.

SPEAKER_01 39:04

This guy must sleep better than anybody in this room. I guarantee you sleep better than me.

SPEAKER_02 39:11

Yeah, I mean, like it is interesting. Um, and it's something like I think you've got to be honest with yourself about what you really want because you know, there's absolutely nothing wrong with what you're doing, by the way. I mean, I think that um like you live uh a probably a um way less stressful life than than me, for instance, or for and a lot of people that are in business, I think that like when you're when you're pushing, um, you know, it's a it's a it's a different level of stress and and and and um you know in a lot of ways, you know, building like you've built a great lifestyle and uh you built a great business, but a great lifestyle business that uh and there's nothing wrong with that. You gotta you need to be honest with yourself about what you really want. I mean, is it and and is it is it something that like when you're saying chasing this bigger number that you put out there, are you doing it because you think you need to or because you really want to?

SPEAKER_00 40:12

It it's something kind of me being transparent with myself, like can I it's more so of reaching my full potential. I feel like if I can do that number, like I'm I'm doing everything I could to reaching my full potential.

SPEAKER_02 40:31

I'm sympathetic. I I agree with you. I mean, I think that you know we only have one shot at this, at least as far as I'm aware. And um you know, I do think that at the end of life people um regret the things that they um didn't do because they were scared. They don't regret the things that they tried and failed at. Um, and I think about that a lot. And you know, I definitely think that you know, you know, getting complacent is um oftentimes getting complacent too young, especially, is a recipe for unhappiness later. Um, but everybody's different. You gotta be right, my point is you gotta be honest with yourself about who you really are and what you're really willing to sign up for. Um and because um you're in a position where you can go so many different ways. I mean, but you're you're in such an enviable starting point. So like I don't want to I don't want to um diminish that. I mean, I think you're in a wonderful, you're you're obviously in a in a wonderful place, but you gotta be honest with yourself about what you what you really want to do next and start taking actions that are consistent consistent with whatever with what with whatever that is.

SPEAKER_00 41:45

I agree. Yes.