He Built an $8M Manufacturing Business… But His Real Dream Is Something Much Bigger

Every entrepreneur eventually reaches a crossroads.

Do you keep scaling the business you’ve already built, or do you use it as the foundation for something even bigger?

In this episode of Boring Money, I sit down with Christian, an entrepreneur who started in hazardous waste management with zero industry experience, survived a near business collapse, reinvented himself through manufacturing, and built an $8 million company in one of the most specialized industrial niches in America.

But the conversation quickly becomes about something much deeper than paint booths.

Christian has a much bigger dream: building a modular construction company capable of transforming affordable commercial buildings. The problem? His current business is pulling him in a completely different direction.

We unpack one of the hardest questions every entrepreneur eventually faces:

Are your daily actions actually moving you toward the life you say you want?

Along the way we discuss:

• How Christian recovered after almost losing everything because of cash flow.
 • Why owning your supply chain changed the trajectory of his business.
 • The difference between building a growth engine and building a cash-flow machine.
 • Why more revenue often creates less cash.
 • The hidden cost of chasing growth before your systems are ready.
 • How recurring revenue can completely change a manufacturing business.
 • The importance of identifying the single biggest blocker standing between you and your goals.
 • Why focus—not talent—is often the deciding factor between entrepreneurs who build something extraordinary and those who stay stuck.
 • The uncomfortable question every founder eventually has to answer: What do you actually want?

One line from this conversation has stuck with me:

“When you say you want one thing, but all the actions you’re taking are in a different direction… what’s the truth?”

If you’re building a business, wrestling with competing priorities, or trying to decide what the next decade of your career should look like, I think you’ll find a lot to think about in this conversation.

As always, thanks for listening. If you enjoy these conversations, please subscribe and leave a review—it helps us reach more entrepreneurs who are trying to build something meaningful.

Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:00

He started with nothing. No, I had no idea what hazardous waste was, and I had no clue how to do a business at all.

SPEAKER_03 0:06

No industry knowledge, no roadmap. And today he's one of four people in the country who does what he does, and he's coming for the other three.

SPEAKER_00 0:15

My plan was lower the price, give a lot of discounts, and push these guys out. But the journey nearly broke him. I scaled it faster than I can handle. My wife's like, it's time to go if this business concept is not working.

SPEAKER_03 0:26

To help him accomplish his dreams, he'll need the most brutal business truce you've ever heard. Don't pretend something is your dream if you're not willing to actually go for it. When you say you want one thing, but all the actions you're taking are in a different direction, then what's the truth? So, Christian, thank you for joining me on Boring Money. Thanks for having me.

SPEAKER_00 0:49

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 0:49

Um, so you have two logos on your shirt.

SPEAKER_00 0:51

Are they are these two businesses that you own? No, these are actually two brands under the same umbrella. However, this year, uh the second business, AEO Labs, was actually separated as an entity, its own entity. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 1:06

So um why don't you give me a bit of background? How long have you been in business?

SPEAKER_00 1:12

I started the first business in 2008. 2008. Yeah, yeah. That's a great year to start a business. Yeah, yeah, it was. It was. Um he just kind of fell in my lap uh by a family member. You know, um my my goal was to go into commercial real estate. And um, you know, one of the family members suggested that we go into the hazmat management business, hazmat waste management business. So somebody suggested it. Had you had any experience in the hazmat waste management business before? No, I had no idea what what hazardous waste was. Uh-uh. So where did you grow up? I grew up in LA.

SPEAKER_03 1:52

You grew up in LA. Um, and in 2008, had you I gone to high school, gone to college. What what was your situation at that point?

SPEAKER_00 2:00

Yeah, I went to uh high school, a little bit of college. My whole career, I finished about three years of uh college uh with folks in business management. Yep. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 2:10

And um you decided to start your own business, Hashback waste management. Um what did day one of that look like? Like you just decide, hey, you do like you read it on the internet, say, hey, this sounds like a good business and I'm gonna get in it.

SPEAKER_00 2:24

No, what happened was uh, you know, the family member owned a collision repair shop. And so um, you know, he got the idea that um we can, you know, develop this business managing waste as a broker. Uh we were we were brokers essentially, so we didn't have trucks yet. Uh so the idea was that we managed, we picked up paint booth filters like dirty filters, waste paint, waste oil, and then we s leased uh to the same customers cleaning equipment for the same application.

SPEAKER_03 2:55

So you were basically like a lead generator for them, more or less.

SPEAKER_00 2:58

Essentially, yeah. Yeah. And were you charge and how were you charging? Essentially, it's almost like, you know, being a distributor of some kind. Uh they labeled us distributors, so they would give us a lower price and then we would make the money on the different. So you basically make the spread.

SPEAKER_03 3:12

But but it would be like but you would get that like kind of recurring revenue because every time they did it, you were they were getting paid, presumably.

SPEAKER_00 3:18

That's correct. Yeah. Yeah. And I was getting them in uh the bigger companies into smaller facilities in volume. They didn't want to chase the small mom and pop shop, so that was our job to get 20 of them lined up. Yep. Yeah. So makes sense. So what is how long did you do that? That went on from uh 2008 to about 2016, 17. And what was the trajectory of that business? Like, you know, how much revenue were you doing when you in that period? So essentially the family member brought me in and left me, left me to the, you know, to be on my own. So I went from not knowing anything about business, you know, I was a waiter before that, real estate agent, but just had got my license. And uh so I was left with this business and I had no clue how to do a business at all. You know, so um by myself, you know, we were doing the most I think we ever did was like 400,000 bucks. And so 2016 comes around. What's next? So 2016, uh, 2017 is when we had a hard reset. Um, you know, my wife, uh I'm the type of guy that that'll go down with the ship, you know, trying to make this thing work. Um so what what happened is I I got a large volume of I ended up getting like a hundred uh location operators. Uh so it was collision repair shops that own multiple locations. And I got these accounts on my own. Yeah. Um, but I scaled it faster than you know the cash flow. Um and the net terms is what basically killed me. I was carrying the note. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 4:48

So so so basically, just so people understand, what and this happens a lot when you're the middleman in like this type of a business, is you were taking on contracts um and you were um getting paid, uh you were having to pay the people who were providing the service before you were getting paid from the people that owed you the money for the service.

SPEAKER_00 5:07

So um so anyway, so that happened. You know, I I scaled it faster than I can handle. Um, you know, the net waiting on the net terms broke me, and essentially, you know, I was gonna go down the ship, and my wife's like, it's time to go if this this business concept is not working.

SPEAKER_03 5:22

So walk me through like what that actually looks like in practice. So you're sitting there, you're doing this day-to-day, um, and you're you have a business that on paper is profitable, I'm assuming, like, meaning that that you're making money, but it's cash flow negative, right? And so you have this wake-up moment, like how do you unwind yourself from that situation? Uh I think it's something that a lot of people find themselves in. I mean, I think it's as it's not an uncommon situation.

SPEAKER_00 5:52

Yeah, I think that um, you know, the bigger companies that were let me let me back up a little bit. So because I learned a lot from that time period. Yep. So uh my biggest competitor had a meeting, a huge meeting. They were dominating all of California. And they, you know, brought my my little office in a map. And I got insider information. They said, hey, this outfit here in Northern California is taking a lot of our clients. We need to get this guy off the market. And it was a one-man army, you know. So I was, you know, really pushing and and and trying to get a lot of business from from the competitors. Um, but what what was happening is uh my you know, I didn't know how to manage the the large volume. I didn't have any help, so my accounts weren't repeatable. Um so I mean what do you mean by they weren't repeatable? So in other words, I couldn't touch a hundred customers on my own consistently because it's something where you couldn't maintain you couldn't you couldn't maintain a hundred accounts well as one person, basically.

SPEAKER_03 6:51

Like you it was too it was too much work for one person to be able to manage.

SPEAKER_00 6:54

Aaron Powell That's correct. It's a reoccurring business where you have to go out to the shops and and get the, you know, uh get the order, so to speak. That drums full of that. So it's a relationship-driven business. And you're only one one person, you can't scale. So then I got help, and but basically it was breaking me down. And when I I I essentially ended up losing that large account, and that's what brought me to my knee, so to speak. Um and then, you know, uh so the bigger company that was doing the the brokering for me or picking up the waste for me took that account from me. Yeah. And they also took that model away from me. So now when you go to every collision shop, you'll see these drums, the way I used to label them. Because I gave, you know, I gave them the idea. So when I saw that happen, honestly, I I kind of went into a depression and I wasn't in my right mind to continue the business. Yeah, I understand. So what lesson did you take away from that experience? That, you know, sometimes you gotta know when to let go of something that's not working and pivot.

SPEAKER_03 7:57

Yeah, which make which which I think is very hard for people to do. I mean, and and hats off to you for not going down with the ship, or maybe hats off to your wife for not going down with the ship. Yeah. But what do you think about the kind of dynamics of the business that you're in, being a middleman and um, you know, being a middleman in a market that is dominated by a few large players?

SPEAKER_00 8:21

I think it still can be profitable. What was your question again?

SPEAKER_03 8:24

Sorry. So I guess what I'm trying to get at, or just because I think it may be useful for other people, is you know, uh understanding the business that you're actually in um and who you're competing with and ultimately what your competitive advantage is. Right. Um, and I think that the the struggle, like um sometimes as hard as it is, um you know, offering a high quality service or um bending over backwards to serve your customers and whatnot um does not actually pay is not actually enough to win um if the market dynamics are not in your favor, if you don't if you don't have the control of your own over your own destiny. And that's so maybe that would be a lesson that that would be a lesson for somebody to take from that. Yeah, that's true. Yeah. Um because don't you don't you think that and I I think as we a lot of us make this mistake, but it's like sometimes if your you know eyes are bigger than your stomach, so to speak, and you try to grow so much that then that actually can be at the detriment to your long to your long-term success because you're trying to do too much, serve too many customers. Yeah. Um if you had perhaps um been a little less ambitious in the beginning, but smaller, but controlled your own supply chain or your own destiny, that um you would may have had a better foundation on which to build it.

SPEAKER_00 9:52

I think so too. Yeah. I mean, if I had to start that business over now, I I know what I did wrong and what I would do correctly.

SPEAKER_03 9:58

Yeah. So can you articulate what that is? I because I think it's inter I think it's interesting because I think it's it's a it's something that a lot of people find theirs themselves in a similar situation.

SPEAKER_00 10:07

Aaron Powell Yeah, it's kind of how I'm thinking about the filter business, but uh we'll we'll get to that. Um so the way I would do it now is um, you know, with scaling on a large level like that, like getting a bunch of customers, the problem was the fulfillment and um having the you you had to beg them to want nobody wants to pay to remove their waste. That's the last thing they care about. So uh if you make if you set the tone of like you know how often you should be picking up your waste, right? You set you you you set the system for them, they'll follow that system, and you don't necessarily have to touch all these customers all the time on your own. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 10:44

And I think the way that I say it would say it and how you know we you know behave in our market, but like if you um can offer a high quality um you know product and a high quality of service consistently in a you know product line where people would rather not think about it, then if you can um get that customer once, then you're gonna keep them for a long period of time because they're not gonna want to think about it again. Exactly. And you know, I think that in in that I think that the type that type of waste management business can be a very good and profitable recurring business, but you do have to have the right systems in place to be able to deliver that quality service consistently over time. And it's hard to do uh if you're relying on other people to um provide the service.

SPEAKER_00 11:33

That's right. And I would I would start with a truck now. If I had to do it over again, I would start with a truck. And the biggest thing would be um actually charging the customer the day of the pickup instead of waiting for them to pay me. So I would collect the money, you know, up front.

SPEAKER_03 11:49

And building a s and building a system around that. That's right. And yeah. Makes sense. So that your your wife says, okay, Christian, we're out of, we're out of this business. Um what do you do next?

SPEAKER_00 12:01

So during that time period, I also dabbled in uh selling spray booths as a distributor. So what is a spray booth? Well, let me back up. So during that period, I I I also integrated paint booth services. Uh a paint booth is uh uh an enclosure where people uh where operators paint.

SPEAKER_03 12:20

Uh and primarily in the c you're in the collision repair still. Like this is still like that, that is your target market. So like a paint booth for collision repair, like they need to paint their car and whatnot.

SPEAKER_00 12:30

Then like you're you're building like the booth around which they're yeah, it's a sheet metal enclosure with ventilation controls. Um yeah, it's it's it's you you gotta be you gotta have a booth by law in order to paint. Yep. Yeah. So that's that's where uh we started looking at that because that was like larger capital asset, right? And um So you're actually selling the booth itself? I started first doing the service. So what does that mean? I went in there, we we brought a team, we scraped all the paint from the paint areas that get, you know, over spraying them, the ducts, changed the filters out, sold them filters. It was a dirty job that nobody wanted to do. So that's what we started doing along with the hazmat waste management. That was kind of like the natural progression of things. And so how often does somebody need to have their paint booth cleaned like that? Uh it's recommended every six months, uh, and then you know, at least two annual annual services, a small and a and a big service. And how long, how long would it take you to do that and how much would you charge? It takes a long time. Uh so uh the way that we did it, because we try to do a good job all the time, right? Um it took about seven hours, um, and it was like a four-man crew plus myself. Wow. Um, and that's the other problem. They want, you know, the they wanted uh they, meaning the the this industry, wants a service, but they don't want to pay pay the money. So we were charging about 3,500 bucks for a small service, about 5,500 bucks for a big service. But it it was very laborious, material intensive, dirty. Um, so it was a tough business. So when I started doing that, that's when I um I was looking around, where can I make more money? So naturally I I looked at the paint booth and I said, all right, maybe I'll start selling these these units that cost more money.

SPEAKER_03 14:22

So you so you decided you decided cleaning them is difficult, but maybe selling the units themselves gives you. That's where the money is.

SPEAKER_00 14:31

Yeah, that's where the money is. That's what I thought, right?

SPEAKER_03 14:34

So are we still like in 2017?

SPEAKER_00 14:37

Walk me through where the timeline, just so I can keep track of where we are. No, I started selling booths like around or doing paint booth service at like 2012. So you were doing that alongside the waste management, got it. Okay. Um in retrospective, it was maybe you know spreading myself too thin.

SPEAKER_03 14:53

Yeah, that sounds like a lot. Um so you're doing both doing both of those things. And then when did you decide to start uh try your hand at manufacturing the paint booths themselves?

SPEAKER_00 15:04

So that didn't happen until the last uh couple months of 2020. Okay, so what so what what was going on between 2017 and 2020 then? So 2017 hard reset, we dropped the hazmat model altogether. So you're just doing paint booth cleaning at that point. At that point, I'm doing paint booth cleaning and then focusing on installing for other manufacturers and uh installing paint booths. Installing paint booths for other manufacturers and then doing the service for other manufacturers as well. The cleaning service. The cleaning service and installs and all that, yeah. For whoever wanted it. Because there was a gap in the market where there's a bunch of manufacturers, but the d there wasn't a lot of installers. So we became that installer line for for a few different companies. And you're doing this all through California? Mostly in California, yes. Got it. Um, so that was around 2018. 2019, I decided to drop the paint booth service, like the cleaning, and focus more on the distribution and installation of the paint booths.

SPEAKER_03 16:04

Distribution and installation. So meaning somebody wants to buy a paint booth, you're basically a distributor for one of the like a rep representative of the main manufacturers of paint booths.

SPEAKER_00 16:15

That's correct. Yeah. So a paint booth, you know, it's a lot of sheet metal that has to be put together, bolted together, anchored to the floor. Ducks have to be ran. It's a it's a big project. Yeah. And it comes in a crate. So, you know, you you gotta have a competent crew to, you know, put this thing together. So that's what we were offering our the manufacturers. You know, we have a competent crew and we could sell them for you at a discounted rate, you know, we would get them at a discounted rate.

SPEAKER_03 16:43

Yep. Got it. Um and then and then like when you did the service work at the on the back end of that, um, right, were you putting anybody in service contracts after the fact or how like how did that work?

SPEAKER_00 16:56

Aaron Ross Powell, Jr. Yeah, I I I was putting people in service contracts. You know, we got about you know a a shop that had like 30 locations. So we were doing the service but again we were spreading ourselves too thin. We were two people plus you know some outsourced labor, but but I still had the old man helping me out a little bit, you know.

SPEAKER_03 17:13

And so sorry, the operator of these machines before, were they making paint booths before? Or it was Yeah, they were making paint boots. Okay. Okay, so I got it. That makes more sense. I thought they were just sheet metal machines. But you're saying so that these so you actually bought with that the expertise of how to actually make the paint booths themselves. That's correct. That makes a lot more sense.

SPEAKER_00 17:32

Yeah, that was the only reason I did it was because of the expertise. Um so anyway, so we're we're working, we're working, and at the end of uh 2020 is when we decide to go in all in um in man into manufacturing. So I brought the machines over to Santa Rosa, which is where we're from, and then um, you know, I got a space, a retail space. It was not the most ideal space. Um and we we put the machines in there and we started, you know, we opened the doors for business. It that was like around November of 2020. At this point, we're still doing a couple million bucks, three million bucks. Uh so our first year in operation in manufacturing, we jumped to four point four point seven million bucks in revenue. Wow. And and were you able to expand your margins as part of that? The margins have always been, and this is a question for you later, but it it's always hovered around 10%. Yeah. A little less, you know, depending on California's really expensive to operate in, you know. Um but but what what I for foresaw when I brought those three machines was the need for the vertical integration right away. Even though I knew nothing about manufacturing, I saw it, right? And I said, all right, what is the gap? What what are my competitors doing? That and I was competing with the smaller paint booth guys at this point, obviously not the big guys, so I'm trying to knock them out first. So they were outsourcing a critical part of the manufacturing process of these booths. And I saw the need for that. So when I opened my facility up, I made sure that we had some those three pieces vertically integrated. And that would be the engineering behind it. Yep. In addition to the sheet metal bending, uh, the coating of the panels. So we make them look white and pretty, so we powder coat them. So I implemented those three things right away, and that set me apart from the smaller guys by doing that.

SPEAKER_03 19:23

Got it. Um and so you're um like in the in your business today, how does it look compared to that? Is it are are we caught up to where you are today, or like, or are my are we missing any other.

SPEAKER_00 19:37

You already jumped to today, you were to keep going on the evolution.

SPEAKER_03 19:40

Well, if there's more to evolve if there's more to evolution, keep going with evolution.

SPEAKER_00 19:44

Yeah. I mean, you have me thinking about this. So you know, preparing for this, I hadn't thought about it in a long time, but it's good to reflect, right? So we know we're gonna be able to do that.

SPEAKER_03 19:51

Well, I think it's helpful for people to understand that you know you don't just walk into a good business. It takes an evolution and a lot of trial and error. So that's kind of why I like I like going through it all. But let's hear let me hear what let's hear what's next.

SPEAKER_00 20:05

So so we brought in the vertical integration. 2022 uh, you know, our revenue went up from 4.7 to about 5.5 million. We started seeing a slow, uh slow progression for growth. Um and what happened in 2022, I I was rocking and rolling still in in this industry primarily with this brand. This was very little of it, the paint booth side. And um so with AEO Labs, we're we were we were going, we were going, and you know, I my competitors were still taking a big chunk of the market.

SPEAKER_03 20:40

Um Do you have any idea how big annually this market is? Like like like do you have a frame of reference for just At the time?

SPEAKER_00 20:51

Um you know, it must have been like a specific to to what I did or the entirety of the market?

SPEAKER_03 20:57

Yeah, either. I'm just kind of to frame it, like how how big of an opportunity, like how big of an opportunity it is.

SPEAKER_00 21:04

There wasn't that many players doing it. So like specifically, we were doing maybe, you know, $100 million market, you know?

SPEAKER_02 21:11

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 21:12

Yeah. So it wasn't that big of a market, but it was a niche that we knew was there. And yeah, because you understood well and you had some competitive advantage in. So I mean you could And the way I saw four of us in the nation doing it, that's not a big competition. You know, I could take a slice. So in 2022, I had a plan to push the brand forward and push my competitors out. So I knew two of the four of us didn't manufacture, they were distributors. So they were just slapping their name on it, putting a bunch of components together. And the way I had vertically brought in everything in-house, I was able to lower the prices by like 40 to 50 percent. So my my plan, I don't know if it was good or not at the time, was lower the price, give a lot of discounts, and push these guys out. And so subsequently the following year, one of those two guys filed for bankruptcy. The other one might be going out of business soon. Um so I I don't know if it worked, but now there's two of us, two of us left in the market, you know. That dominate that space, even though now it's soft. And I'll get to that. So that was 2022. So that year we had kind of our lower, you know, uh net margins and but we did have good gross margins. So, you know, you're better than me at this stuff. So I I can't really put the connection on where all I know is that I was discounting a lot. I was pushing for the brand to be recognized, I was pumping in money for advertisement, and then my overhead was also increasing at the same time.

unknown 22:36

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 22:36

Okay.

SPEAKER_03 22:36

We'll dig into all that, but I want you to keep keep get me catch me up to today.

SPEAKER_00 22:40

So like what what what 2024 is when um I saw so at this point we're we're getting one bay, two bays, three bays, four bays in that building. So essentially we took almost half of that building. Yeah. Um, but it was a retail space. So it was really hard to operate on an operational level. You had these massive trucks holding up traffic and it was a nightmare. Yeah. So my lease was about to be up the following year. So in 2024, September, I purchased a building in Santa Rosa, California. What made you decide to buy rather than lease at that point? Uh my experience, well, one of the things, you know, I I I said I was in real estate, right? So I've been an agent for uh a bunch of years now. Excuse me. I dabbled here and there with my friends, for myself. Yep. So, you know, we bought four personal properties. So I was already kind of in the real estate game, right? Um, and I don't know, I saw this, the need for having my own space, my privacy, because I come from this retail space where I have to like check in with everyone. So I bought a building that was right on the strip. So you get off the airport and you drive down the strip and we're right there. So one, it was advertisement. I want everybody to know we're here, right? Two, it was the space. So the building itself is only 20,000 square feet, but the space is almost four acres of outdoor space. So building these large structures, I wanted to have space to be able to do it in. Yeah. So are you glad you bought the building? 100%, yes. Okay. So then what's next? So that was 2024. Um 2025 is when we essentially had our best year. So we didn't move into that building until September of 2025. I leased it back to the to the previous owner. So we're still operating in our other place, but you know, I was I was throwing out a lot of cash during that period of time. I was upgrading the building, doing the flooring, you know, everything that comes with it to make it look nice. And uh, so it was a big cash, you know, stretching us out for sure. 2025, we had our best year. You know, we did $8 million in revenue. Wow. About 11%, um probably 12% of uh net in this transitional period. You know, it was it was really hard, Dave, because we had to move all the machinery, upgrade this building, manage the two things while still keeping production strong and moving. So um that was 2025, and we moved in September 2025.

SPEAKER_03 25:17

And so that's just over six months ago. That's correct. Yeah. Yeah. And you said business is getting a little soft this year. What did you mean by that?

SPEAKER_00 25:28

Not this year. Um business got soft in 2022. This year, we're seeing our best year so far. We're tracking to 12 million bucks between the two brands.

SPEAKER_03 25:39

Wow. So almost a 50% increase from last year.

SPEAKER_00 25:41

Yeah. Yeah. If we keep the if we keep keep going this way, yes. Um what do you attribute that to? So in 2025, wait, what year are we on, Dave?

SPEAKER_02 25:56

We're up to 2026. We're up to we're up to current day.

SPEAKER_00 25:58

Yeah, but a lot of things happen in between. So in 2025, the last quarter of 2025, I said, you know, I got this thought. What what brought me to this point is not going to bring me to the next point. Yep. So then I got a hold of a couple books. Napoleon Hill changed my life when I was like 19 years old, you know? Thinking Grow Rich? Yeah, yeah, it changed my mentality, my burning desire.

SPEAKER_03 26:20

So so what about thinking grow rich changed your mentality? I think that's an inter I think that's interesting.

SPEAKER_00 26:26

So I obsess on things, Dave, just like I do on your videos, but I study them, right? So when I got a hold of Napoleon Hill, it just taught me to have uh that burning desire to be definite about what I want and to not give up. Not don't stop digging before you catch the gold, right? Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 26:46

So so I think this is a good point to say, you know, what does Christian have envision for his life 10 years from now?

SPEAKER_00 26:58

Ten years from now, I envision having the business um running like a smooth, uh, well-oiled machine that doesn't involve me every day. And you know, I have plans for larger volume dollar businesses. So I want to be able to leave that business operational so I can, you know, do more things. When you say do more things, what does more things mean? I don't want to spread it too too thin right now with my ideas, Dave. But uh essentially, you know, I'm looking at modular construction. So the way I look at my company, we're a modular company. We're not a paint booth company, we're not an enclosure company, we're a modular company. So modular construction to me is the next big thing. I've already got all the licenses for it.

SPEAKER_03 27:43

Define modular construction. Like what is that?

SPEAKER_00 27:47

So as you know, the labor force and construction, I don't want to give away my secrets, but the labor force is getting smaller and smaller, skilled labor. So modular construction is becoming more popular. What does that mean? That means that your house is gonna be built in a factory, your building is gonna be built in a factory and then shipped in in modular fashion.

SPEAKER_03 28:07

Yep.

SPEAKER_00 28:07

Yeah. So that's where I want to go in 10 years from now.

SPEAKER_03 28:11

That's where you want to go in 10 years from now. And so you know, when you say you want to go there, like you want to start manufacturing modular homes in the US?

SPEAKER_00 28:23

I'm targeting buildings, not homes. Modular buildings. So when you say modular buildings, walk me through that. Simply put, it's Legos. Legos, right? And it this is already a market that's happening. Yeah, I have a familiar with it. That's why I'm curious. So I went to see a competitor, right? Did a tour of their factory. Where? Uh in the US or abroad? In the U.S.

SPEAKER_03 28:50

Okay, that's fine. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 28:51

Yeah. So I did a tour of the factory because they do shipping container retrofits, which is another market that we're seeing a lot more activity. Yep. Now we're building shipping containers for other things, but that's another story. So I went to see what they're doing and got a tour of their facility. You know, they're doing a billion dollars in modular construction. As far as the eye could see, you see these modules, right? It's steel framing, panelized solutions, just like we're doing, wiring things, fire suppression, just the same thing we're doing. So when I saw that, I said, I gotta get a piece of this. So that's where um that's my my next goal to get into it.

SPEAKER_03 29:29

And and you know, why do you think you are um why why do you think you are uniquely suited to achieve that? Because well, it's not an accusation, by the way.

SPEAKER_00 29:43

I'm just genuinely curious. Yeah, no, I don't want to come off like I'm showing off like I'm gonna do all these great things. No, uh, I'm a very practical guy. I have the practical manufacturing knowledge. Yeah. And the same manufacturing knowledge applies. And I understand construction and real estate because of my background. So, and I've already researched the crap out of it, Dave. I got all the licenses in place for my facility to be able to do that legally in California and you know, be a certified modular. We already are a facility. I just haven't used it, but um because I understand the the manufacturing process.

SPEAKER_03 30:19

Yeah. So what is it going to take you over the next 10 years to do for you to be able to achieve that goal?

SPEAKER_00 30:30

I can't do that unless I make this company a well-oiled machine operating system set in place. So what what does that mean? What does that look like? Um well, let's go back to Vern, Vern has harnish, right? I read I read the book and I I I understood. The same thing that brought me here is not going to bring me to that point.

SPEAKER_03 30:52

Yeah. So but but I guess like take a step back. I guess we can get into the how to like moving to the how-to. What I'm trying to find is like what does that look like? Like how much revenue are we talking about? How much profit? Like, um, what does your involvement with that business look like? How like walk me through what it what it looks like.

SPEAKER_00 31:10

You you want to go to my mind, like what it really looks like. So essentially, there's a building behind my building. It's about seven acres. It's for show. I want it. Tear that fence down and have modules as far as the eye could see. And um essentially I'm targeting $500 million in revenue from that business. Aaron Powell From the modular construction business. Yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 31:31

I so that's great. But I'm saying what in order for you to fund that, what what does your business as it is today need to look like?

SPEAKER_00 31:39

Aaron Powell It needs to look like a proven model that I can replicate and predict. And and and and you know, at that point I can come. When you say replicate and predict, you mean year after year. Aaron Powell That's correct. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 31:53

Make it predictable and predicting the Trevor Burrus, Yeah, but you don't want to scale because your goal isn't necessarily to scale your business as it is today, is for it to fund your next venture, which is the container venture.

SPEAKER_00 32:05

Aaron Powell Partially. Uh it's not container-based, it's uh literally construction making a lot of things. Particular construction, yeah. Um if I have a proven model over here, yeah, I can fund a lot of it over there. And I and I know how to scale it up to that point without breaking the bank, so to speak. And at that point, I think I could bring in investors to help me propel to those levels that I want to get to.

SPEAKER_03 32:27

Yeah, so what I'm trying to figure out is, you know, what in order for you to start building out this modular construction dream, like what would you what would need to happen for you to be able to do that? Like what's what's keeping you from doing it today, for instance?

SPEAKER_00 32:44

Again, going back to people like you that I watch and I respect, if I were to do that now, I wouldn't be minding my business and I would again be spreading myself. Be moving and focused.

SPEAKER_03 32:53

Yeah, and normally that would be the conversation I would be having now. But like I listening to you, I I, you know, I'm on a I started manufacturing air filters and I'm on a mission to build the world's leading indoor air quality company, right? So, you know, I can't sit here and say, you know, you cannot build something to open up a bigger dream. Like I think that's very much a viable thing. And it uh and I understand the connection between what you're doing and the modular construction makes sense. Like I can't, I can't I can't take take fall with that. The the the question though becomes how are we actually going to get there? Like what and like what are the blockers from you being able to actually do that? And that's what I'm trying to understand. Like, like if you woke up tomorrow and your business was doing um $20 million a year and putting out four million dollars of cash flow, just putting out numbers, um would you then feel comfortable to do this? Or would you say, hey, I need to build a hundred million dollar paint booth business? Like, like what what is it actually going to take for you to start to take the first step when you're I mean I have the numbers, you know.

SPEAKER_00 34:03

I know that I want to if I'm at twenty, twenty five million, then I would take that step.

SPEAKER_03 34:09

Okay, so twenty twenty five million, um how much how much consistent revenue. And and and how much money do you need to be making on that 2025 million?

SPEAKER_00 34:18

15, 20% is my target. 20% would be ideal, obviously, but 15%. And manufacturing is really hard, but now that we're layering the the filter business, the recurring revenue, that's a big, big one for us. It's gonna, you know, I I understand that that's fixing our our uh lumpy revenue problem. So um in our lower margins.

SPEAKER_03 34:42

But but basically, like if you had a a business that was producing four million dollars of cash flow, then you would feel comfortable to go out and invest in this other venture. That would that's what you're telling me?

SPEAKER_00 34:54

I don't even need to have that cash flow, to be honest with you, Dave. I think I know that I could do it without the money, you know, because of my resources now, right? I just don't have the manpower to do it right now. Aaron Powell When you say you don't have the manpower, what do you mean?

SPEAKER_03 35:11

I get like because you tell me you have the resources, yeah. That tells me that you have the money to hire manpower.

SPEAKER_00 35:18

So what's keeping you from I guess not the financial resources? I don't. So then you're so then you do need that cash flow. Yeah, it needs to be more profitable. I need the cash flow to make that happen. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 35:29

Um, and you know, what have have you mapped out what your starting cost for this business would look like if you were going to go out and like say, hey, I want to start figuring this out? Like how much money, how much money would it take? Yeah. So how much would it take?

SPEAKER_00 35:46

It would only take like $300,000, $400,000.

SPEAKER_03 35:52

Then what's keeping you from doing that now? Now.

SPEAKER_00 36:02

Because I'm focusing all the money and all my efforts and everything into my two brands right now. And and and perfecting the manufacturing process, bettering the manufacturing process. And if I were to add that on, it's another manufacturing process all in itself.

SPEAKER_03 36:20

So if you if you take all of this and you say, okay, um you can't serve two masters, and ultimately this this is this is the problem is that you're the goal that you're saying you want, I'm trying to figure out how that relates to where you are today to close the loop. And I feel like we're talking in circles around I'm trying, I'm trying to map out how we're going to get from where we are today for to you building your dream. It's like what are the like what are the actual blockers?

SPEAKER_00 36:53

Like what are the things that are actually blocking you? I mean, if I brought in a sale right now, right, I can't pull my people off of the day-to-day operations to mm fabricate this module. I can't. And I also don't have, I'm not comfortable financially to be able to invest in this, you know. I have to open up a showroom. I have to I know the things I have to do. And so I just don't have the finances or the manpower to do it right now. Okay.

SPEAKER_03 37:21

So what I'm asking is yeah, like what are the signals? Like what are the things that you need to achieve for you to feel comfortable making that investment?

SPEAKER_00 37:32

Aaron Powell If my manufacturing process is dialed in, that would make me comfortable to be able to look at some pay attention to that more.

SPEAKER_03 37:42

So what is keeping you from getting your manufacturing process dialed in?

SPEAKER_00 37:46

So I'm in the middle of scaling the business and building my operating system. I'm in the kind of in the middle of it right now.

SPEAKER_03 37:53

Not kind of, I am. So what's more important? Getting your manufacturing process dialed in or scaling your business?

SPEAKER_00 38:01

Scaling my business. Why? Because it's gonna give me the uh resources to pursue other things.

SPEAKER_03 38:09

Is that so can if you scale your business but don't buy dial in your manufacturing process, are you still going to like is that gonna be fine?

SPEAKER_00 38:21

No. It doesn't to me it doesn't make sense how I would do that. How would I scale something that's not that's not good?

SPEAKER_03 38:30

You're just scaling a bunch of Yeah, so so I just asked you what's more important, getting your processes locked in or scaling your business. You said scaling process like locked in, I'm sorry. Okay, yeah, okay, okay. Well that that because you said scaling your business. I'm trying to keep up with you, Dave. Sorry. Yeah. I I'm trying to, I'm trying to I'm trying to walk you to through to um to answer your own question is what I'm trying to. But I'm trying to get you to answer it answer your own question. Um but I think that this is just a hunch. You know, obviously we just met each other today, and I'm I'm and you've walked me through through your story, but um you're you're trying to do two things at once. You're trying to scale your, or trying to do three things at once, actually. You're trying to scale your business, grow revenue, you want to grow 50%. Um, but at the same time, you haven't dialed in your processes that really allow you to do that profitably. So um you while you're trying to scale at a to scale a physical operation like this 50% is a big, that's a that's a big undertaking. I mean, like you think about hiring 50% more people, getting 50% more customers, getting 50% more, you know, um stuff made. I mean, like that's hard to do. Yeah. Um and you're trying to do that while then saying, oh, I need to dial in my processes, while then saying, oh, I want to have the resources to take on another venture. Right. So that's what you're trying to do. And what I'm trying to get you to do is to say, okay, in the next year, like what is the thing that I need to do that has the highest probability of unlocking my ability to do everything else I want to do. Um, and it seems to me that it's not really growing your paint booth business as it is today. Um it's because you've already gotten it to an $8 million a year revenue, a healthy, a healthy level with the decent amount of infrastructure. It's like you making that actually work and more efficient and you know, profitable and hitting your financial metrics, um, and maybe building a system around that that is scalable, that doesn't require your as much of your energy, um, you know, putting your energy like fixing that problem is way more important than trying to grow 50% short term.

SPEAKER_00 41:00

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 41:00

Yeah. Because if you fix that, then you have a system that you can scale that then you know is going to put off those resources that you want to imagine, imagine you take your eight million dollar business and you say, hey, I'm going to, I'm gonna figure out a system that really makes this work and get it to that 20% like maybe if you only focused on getting to that 20% margin number, it's $1.6 million. Um, if you were there, would you feel comfortable making the investment in your dream?

SPEAKER_00 41:36

I think so, yeah, at that point. Yeah. So so why don't why don't we focus on that? So what you're saying, if I'm hearing you correctly, is focus on my margins and second July and fixing or dialing in my operations.

SPEAKER_03 41:50

What I'm trying to do is I'm trying to help you shorten the time to achieving what you really want to achieve. Right. And so you tell me that you want to feel comfortable to be able to focus your energy on this big dream that you have. Right. That's what you that's what you want to do, and you have a big vision for that. And so we want to shorten the time frame it takes for you to get from where you are today to being able to do that. And you know, what I'm telling you, or just based off of what you've told me, I'm taking you at your your inf what you're telling the FACE value, but like you have a big enough business today to be able to do that. It's just you just don't have processes that are dialed in enough that are going to allow it. You're still focusing on growing that business at a high rate. But what I'm saying is perhaps focusing on making it more efficient and more profitable would actually be the path would be the path of least resistance to unlocking your ability to go out and achieve, build what you say you want to build.

SPEAKER_00 42:56

Gotcha. That's that's exactly where I'm at, actually, trying to build and make it more profitable. So I'm trying to control costs more. We're developing SOPs. We're we're trying to take control this year of all the aspects of the business that were out of control, including overhead, so staffed.

SPEAKER_03 43:15

And but do you understand that I'm not gonna tell you it's impossible, but do you understand that that is not consistent with a business in the physical product that's growing 50%?

SPEAKER_00 43:27

What would you do if it were me then?

SPEAKER_03 43:30

Well, I mean, literally, like I'm going off of what you've told me, right? So I ultimately you're ultimately you have to be able to do that. But um you know, I I would be willing to sacrifice growth this year um to focus on profitability of that business. Okay. Okay because because that is what will unlock what you say you want to do. Got it. Yeah. Yeah. Um because if you try to grow 50 percent Like, like, you know, you think about it, like the most you've ever grown in a year is like $1.4 million of revenue. What you're saying is now you want to go from eight to twelve, that's another four million dollars of revenue. And, you know, I I think that again, not impossible, but to do that while also being a well-oiled machine that is the most profitable it can be, yeah, those are two inconsistent goals. Got it. Normally.

SPEAKER_00 44:26

Yeah. Do you understand? Yeah, yeah, I do understand. I do understand.

SPEAKER_03 44:29

And so you but I'm saying is you have to pick, like, you know, I'm giving you permission to go out and build your dream. I'd love to see you do that. And I think it's great to have a big vision. Most people that come in here don't. Um, but what I'm trying to get you to do is to um be willing to um make the short-term sacrifices it takes to be able to unlock that dream. I guess I'm caught up in the revenue is vanity, right? Yeah, but but you're but but you're you're saying that this is your dream, but what you're focused on is growing the number of the revenue of this other thing. Yeah, yeah. So I understand. What I'm saying is if you really, if this if your dream is really is to build the module. This is a tool to get to my dream instead of like if you really, if that's really your dream, then that's what you need to do. Yeah. But only you can be honest with yourself about what you what you want. But I'm saying if that's your dream, then that's the answer. You have the revenue. Like you have my guess is that like you, and you told me you went from four people in this industry down to two. Sounds like you're in a pretty good spot where you probably have some pricing power. Um, you um you you you've gotten to enough volume that you have the um economies of scale. It sounds to me like in the broad industry. Like my guess is that um like you're in a place where I would I would study my I would have a model of my exact cost structure, my exact pricing structure, and I say, okay, what is it going to take to me to operate this business at 20% margins? And I would then, you know, build the the system and the frameworks that ultimately got you led me to that number. And that would be that that should be the only thing that you care about.

SPEAKER_00 46:09

Okay. Is doing that. That's basically where we're at, you know, as far as how we operate every day. But now the AEO's side of the business is soft. So now it's more of the paint booth finishing side of the business that's stronger. But competition is stiff. So I'm looking at, you know, another area within the market that's a lot larger. So the the the volume, the dollar amounts get bigger, the consumables get larger. Instead of catering to like a bunch of small mom and pop shops, we're focusing more on, you know, system integration. I don't know if that makes sense to you, but no, I'm right. Like let's say instead of buying a paint booth for 30, 40, 50k, 100k, then you're buying an entire finishing line for 1.5 million, 2 million dollars. So those are the kinds of uh things that we're quoting now and going into that direction. So work, you know, not produ not taking on a bunch of work to bring in this revenue. Um, and we're focusing on, you know, I have a floor margin now. I didn't have any of these things before. I have a cost model that I didn't have before. I have cost calculators I didn't have before. I have labor efficiency rates that I didn't have before. So I'm really actually focused in on that. But I'm also focused in on pushing it to that growth. So what you're saying is get rid of that for now, just focus on this now.

SPEAKER_03 47:31

What I'm saying is focus on this, and then the growth in everything is going to be secondary to that focus. Like, like ultimately, you know, that has to be the thing that you're you know non-negotiable about. Yeah. Right. Which my which my guess, and I've been here, I've I I think all entrepreneurs have. But my guess is that if you if you were honest with yourself, that if you had the choice between um having a higher number um over here versus being more profitable, that you choose the higher number.

SPEAKER_00 48:06

No, not anymore. Last year, yes. And then when I saw the reality, no. No, absolutely not. I'm focused in on margin now.

SPEAKER_03 48:15

Well, then I think that that is what ultimately is going to unlock your ability to do the other stuff, right? I mean, like um, but you have but you have to stay consistent with that.

SPEAKER_00 48:26

Yeah, okay. And keep refining those systems. Implement it right away. Yeah. I I love hearing. Yeah, that's why I came to see you, Dave.

SPEAKER_03 48:35

And and and and be ruthless about it. It's a hard thing to do. Um, but that is what will unlock your ability through the other. Then um, you know, do you like the idea of the modular construction? But what um well, I mean, uh it's undeniably a big market. And I think that um it's actually funny. The the like I've we've had a lot of discussions about it internally. The um my producer Eric, who you met, um is um interested in this for a farm property um because it's like a it's a low-cost um way to um build because building stuff has gotten so expensive. Yeah. Um and you know, I think it's a smart, I think it's a smart concept and a smart idea. Um what would make me nervous about it, and I don't know anything about it, you you you do, but um, you know, it's obviously um it's going to be a competitive market. And what I would worry about is um, you know, like say, I know there are big Chinese factories that are basically specialized in doing this, yeah. Um and then they can ship them on containers, and it's not that expensive to do. Um and so that that is ult ultimately is going to be your competition. Um, and I'm sure that it's a big enough market that there are many niches that you can find within this and make it big. So like I it's undeniably a big market. Um, I just don't know enough about it to know, you know, where your relative competitive advantage lies. Um, but you seem so passionate about it and you've done so much work on it that, you know, and it's a big enough market that, you know, I totally see how you can build a huge business doing it. And yeah, so I'm I'd be the last person to sit here and discourage you from doing that. Yeah, yeah. Um but you know, but you have you only you can know if that really is your dream and what you believe in and what you want to go build. And so my job is to help you to, you know, unlock whatever it is that you're looking to unlock. And if that's what you want to unlock, then you know, you need to, you know, use what you've built as a cash flow to fund doing that. But like um you don't want to do that in like in 10 years, you want to figure out how you do it next year. Yeah. If that's what you really want to build. Yeah. I mean, it's like I don't think you're gonna be able to build at a big scale both of these things. No, right? So I'm so I what I would say is how do you make what you've got into a good enough place that you feel like you can start to build your dream. That's what I'm trying to help help you to unlock. If that's really what you believe.

SPEAKER_00 51:18

Yeah, yeah. No, I gotcha. Do you disagree? No, I agree a hundred percent. Um you always hear the grass is greener on the other side, or we think the grass is greener on the other side, you know. So um right now what I'm thinking about is just basically recurring revenue and and my margins. That's what I'm focused in right now. I kind of left that to the side. So like let's let's walk through that.

SPEAKER_03 51:40

When I know where I know where you're going with this, I'm it makes me a little bit nervous, and I'll tell you why when we get into it. But walk me through, like you're in the you're as we've talked about to this point, um, you know, in a you know, manufacturing business for a one-time purchase um of paint booths and whatnot. Sure. Like that, that is the the industry you're in. And so um, I guess they can they can be feast or famine in that like in you know, down market cycles, people probably don't invest as much in them. And so you have it's more cyclical, can't be a more cyclical business, is what is what you're describing. But for you, just so we're clear, to this point, it has not been super cyclical. You've been since 2020, you've basically been up more or less every year. So like you've you've been able to to grow it year over year, year after year, um, you know, as it stands today. And my guess is that there's enough demand every year for you to maintain an eight million dollar a year business in that. That's just my my for sure. My belief. But anyway, so that's what you're focused on on historically. Walk me through how you want to make that recurring into a recurring revenue model.

SPEAKER_00 52:54

Simply put, I think that the business is in the filter business, consumable business, not the paint booth business per se. That's where the real business is.

SPEAKER_03 53:03

So so walk walk everybody through why um what where filtration comes into play in a paint booth.

SPEAKER_00 53:13

Sure. So you need to capture the overspray while you're spraying. So there's a filter there. There's a filter for intake uh for the air coming in, right? Kind of like your HVAC filters that you guys sell. Um so there's two filters there. Every booth has to have a cyclical change, right? Every month, every two weeks, every week. So just to give you an example, a paint booth that I built the other day, it's big. Um it has 400 filters on it, right? And you what type of filters? Intake, exhaust, air makeup you can use it. Yeah, but they're like they're they're um ring panel filters or yeah, some of them are ring panels, some of them are fiber, some of them are pleated. Um, some of them are pocket filters. Yep. Right? So as manufacturers, we set the tone on when you should change it based on your warranty and things like that. So what I'm seeing now, I've always sold filters, right? Dave, I just never systemized it, never really paid attention to it, right? It was just like, okay, we're doing a service, let's change the filters out. We sell the booth, forget about the filters, let's go chase the next, you know, $50,000 deal. Yeah. And and it's been gone now for years. So now I'm looking at the systemization of it, right? And watching your videos is where, you know, you really pumped me up for this. And this was 2026, the first quarter of 2026. That's when I found your first video. Um and so that that's where, in my mind, that's where the real business is.

SPEAKER_03 54:46

And so your idea is to um sell the filters and have them shipped direct to the customer, or your idea is to actually install the filters as a part of a service agreement?

SPEAKER_00 54:59

Aaron Powell Right now uh we're doing both essentially. We're doing um we're selling them. It has nothing to do with the install. We're selling them as a manufacturer, period. And then we're also selling them for other manufacturers as well. So we're selling filters right now as we speak. But the idea behind the manufacturing is that, you know, my supplier, we have the highest tier of discounts, right? Because we're an OEM. So now we're uh you know, increase we're we're doing incentives for our customers. So I'll give you an example, right? I I went from here's a paint booth to now buy a year full of year of filters up front, and we extend your warranty, right? Because we're keeping the booth in top, top notch shape. And people are responding very well to that. So we're we're implementing that. And during my service years, I developed a database of every manufacturer's filter type. Because every booth kind of has its own twist, but then there's some that are general skews. So we have this, you know, all this this database. So we could sell filters for any manufacturer now as well. But for our business, that's where I'm starting first, right? I'm focusing on our customers, signing them up. Once they sign up, we drop ship automatically. Got it. Um and how big is that business for you currently? Currently, um, I haven't traced it, to be honest with you. You know, it's been muddled in the in the uh the rest of the the the categories in our business. Uh so this year is uh the year that we're truly gonna start you know tracking that. Um so uh you know I'm I'm thinking at least 500k based on what I see this first year, maybe more. And and so your idea is to make that a bigger portion of your business. Correct, yeah. Because if I sell one booth, right, that's one customer every so often. But you know, just the last the last bundle of the year, right, just to give you some numbers, was like 30,000 bucks, right? For a year. So now I turn that customer from you know into a $30,000 a year customer, and I can compound that based on experience. This is not like, you know, far-fetched fantasy. This is like what I'm seeing in my numbers. So you know, I'm excited about that.

SPEAKER_03 57:29

Got it. Um, and so basically, um I want to go back to and maybe we'll we'll we'll dig into that more. I've got some ideas for you, but it may be out of the scope of the of this conversation. So we'll we'll come back to that after after after this. But the um, you know, I guess where I would kind of want to leave it a little bit is you know I want to know what it's gonna take you from a business perspective to unlock you being able to go after your dream. So can you walk me through like like what are the signs, like what is like what is it like if if you say over the next year run your business in a way that um you're able to set aside four hundred thousand dollars of cash, maybe um some type of uh auto-draw, put it into a separate bank account, um, and a year from now you've unlocked that. Would that would that give you the resources to start building your dream?

SPEAKER_00 58:32

I can tell you, but my real original plan, right? My original plan was to build a business to a place where somebody would buy me, a competitor would buy me. And then I would use that money to fund this. And that was uh a two, three-year trajectory goal. So but I shifted from that because you know, you hear, you know, you hear people you respect saying that you don't grow it to sell it, you grow it to keep it. So I took that mindset out of my mind.

SPEAKER_03 58:56

It sounds to me like you're like you're like this is the problem with reading too much, to be honest with you, or listening to certainly too many videos like mine. Um ultimately you have to decide what's right for you. I mean, both both like and where listening to you, taking what you say of waste value, you have a this dream that you want to build. And so you want to figure out the path of least resistance to that dream. And and if selling your business is the path of least resistance to that, there's nothing wrong with that, right? Like, like I think the worst thing you could do is try to spread yourself too thin. In some ways, like I actually think that's a better way to go out and pursue what you want to build.

SPEAKER_00 59:42

So you're the type of guy that if you were thinking about this modular construction business, you're gonna know every single little detail about this business before you go into, right?

SPEAKER_03 59:51

Yeah, and I'd be all but then I would be all in on it if I committed to it.

SPEAKER_00 59:55

I have not looked into every single aspect of this business for me to say, you know, this is the right way to this is the right route to take. It's a dream. I thought about it, it made sense, it makes sense. I prepare for it as far as licensing and all that, the equipment I need to buy, how I need to execute it. But then, you know, I haven't done enough homework to say this is it, you know. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 1:00:23

So I guess, you know, I would leave it at this in that you're gonna have to decide what you want out of life and then commit to that. And like what I what I hear from you is a lot of like anytime I'll make a suggestion or something, you say, Well, I'm already doing that. Or you'll say, Well, I've already thought about that. And like, um, you know, which is fine, but ultimately you are gonna have to choose what you want and be committed to that.

SPEAKER_00 1:00:52

And it's I and that could be fear, right, Dave? I don't know, fear or doubt or whatever, you know.

SPEAKER_03 1:00:58

Um Yeah, I mean, it's you haven't actually committed yet. I mean, it's it's and it's you go back to Napoleon Hill. Um, you know, I think Napoleon Hill would tell you that if you um, you know, if you really believe in something, then there is no other alternative. Sure. Right? Like that that that becomes your that like you're going to make it happen. Like, like there is no doubt in my mind that there is a pathway to making building a big modular construction business. Like that, like that's not a like that's un that's undeniably true. Yeah. Whether or not you're the guy to do it, only you can answer that. Um I wouldn't want to do it. So like I I wouldn't have the belief in myself to go do that because it's it's not what I want to do. But um, but Christian has to, like, if that's your dream, then you need to start taking actions that are consistent with that dream. Um, and it's like like me going through all these things, it's like not not because there's any right or wrong answer, like you can build a huge paint booth business and you can build a build a huge paint paint booth filter business. Like all of those things, you know, are achievable, um, but you're not going to be able to do all of them at once. Yeah. Um, and you know, and what always makes me nervous is, and and I've done but been there and done this myself, but it's like when you say you want one thing, but all the actions you're taking are in a different direction, then what's the truth? Right. Right. And so that's why you have to like what I'm trying to get you to think through is like what is it that you really want to do. Gotcha. Um, and then because then the pathway becomes very clear. I mean, like, is then you know the steps to to take it. Okay. Like if you want to build the modular construction, then you have to find a way to get the capital to do that. So you can do that either to making your business more profitable or selling your business or combination of those two things, right? Yeah. Um, you know, if you want to, you know, build the, you know, if you want to, if you want the more sure thing of like focusing on your business for the next five to ten years, building it as big as you can, something that you already understand and have been working on for over a decade, um, then you know focusing just on that and kind of forgetting about the modular construction um would be the rational thing to do. But ultimately only you can decide what you want to do and how much risk you're willing to take and how much pain you're willing to take in doing it. Yeah. Right?

SPEAKER_00 1:03:25

Yeah. 100%.

SPEAKER_03 1:03:28

But I think ultimately the sooner that you decide that and come to terms with that and accept that, the sooner you can start taking action against that destiny, right? Yeah. Yeah. What am I missing?

SPEAKER_00 1:03:45

No, you're not missing anything. This was part of my plan. I had my dream, and then, you know, kind of outside forces, you know, you're doing too much. You're doubting yourself. Or other people are doubting you. People I respect. You're spreading yourself too thin, and everything's like just yeah. Yeah, which his history would tell them that's true.

SPEAKER_03 1:04:03

But but, you know, at the same time, you know, Christian is the only one that's going to live Christian's life. And at the end of your at the end of your life, you're only accountable to yourself and your God, I guess. So, you know, at the end of the day, you know, you have to make the right decision for you. Yeah. Um, and you know, entrepreneurship is a lonely, um, is a is a is a lonely undertaking. And like if you're gonna build something big, then um that's unique to you, then nobody else has the right to I mean, no nobody else can make that decision for you. Only you can make that decision. Yeah. I can make that decision. But you have to be committed to it fully. Yeah, if you can't commit to it fully, then you're not gonna You're wasting your time. You're not there, yeah, you're not gonna get there. Yeah. Um But you know, I think that the sooner that you can resolve your whether or not you want to commit to something, then I like don't do like don't pretend something is your dream if you're not willing to actually go for it. Because as you're just setting yourself up for disappointment in that, right? You have to make the decision. Gotcha. Um and you know, that's uh like it the safe thing to do is to and there's nothing wrong with it, but just to continue building what you're building. I mean, that's what like if you want the highest probability of success and the lowest probability of short-term pain, you're gonna keep building, you're gonna keep building what you're building. I thought you tell me the opposite.

SPEAKER_00 1:05:33

I thought you would tell me the opposite, just focus on what you're doing and don't focus on anything else.

SPEAKER_03 1:05:36

That's what I'm saying. That's what I'm saying. Like that's no, I gotcha, I gotcha. Yeah, like that that would be that that would be what I would do if you if that's what you want. But like, but I can't sit here and tell you like if you really have this other dream not to go achieve it. But I think you have to you have to decide what it is you really want. Yeah, I gotcha. Um and you should never apologize for wanting to build something big, but you also So can't ask for um pity when things get tough. Yeah. You know, but this is this you know, this it's gonna be a tough road. Yeah, yeah. 100%. Um people aren't gonna feel sorry for you. No. Um, but only it's tough now. Everyday is tough, you know. Yeah, every and that's life. Every day is tough. Yeah. But you have to decide what you're what you're looking to go after.

SPEAKER_00 1:06:23

Can I ask you a question about when you were where I'm at as far as like revenue, like hovering in that area, w what did you do to, you know grow? And were you already at this point when you were doing like 10 million bucks? I don't know if you ever were at that point, eight million bucks. You did you have to look at some of these things like, okay, now I gotta focus on margin, now I gotta focus on just growing or you know, where I'm at basically.

SPEAKER_03 1:06:50

Absolutely. I mean, of course I've started from the filter business from zero and went through every every stage that you can imagine. Um you know I think that um the difference between where you are and I guess I was is I didn't have competing dreams. It's like I wasn't building it to then build something else, right? Um so those are two, that's why I'm saying those are two conflicting goals. Like I I have been I my my my um end game has shifted in terms of that it's expanded, um, but you know, I'm still building the original um business business that I that I set off to build. Um and actually all the mistakes I've made of when I've tried to expand out of that too quickly, um, and I talk about it a lot, and I lose that focus too quickly. Um and you know, so I um like I've always found more success by um focusing focusing in on my bigger dream and like getting rid of all other distractions. Um and so like if I were in your shoes, and you know, if your wife may hate me for saying it, but but but um but you know, I would figure out how quick how quickly I can pivot to go all in on what I wanted to do. Um, because uh it would eat me alive to be doing something that wasn't actually moving me towards what I wanted to do. I would be I would be like continuing to run this thing and cash flowing it for what I can to beg, borrow, and steal to actually build what I wanted to build. Gotcha. That's what I would do. But that's how I'm built. Um and so if I really believed in what I wanted to to go on. Yeah, no, I gotcha. I got you.

SPEAKER_00 1:08:43

You you you you recentered it back for a bit.

SPEAKER_03 1:08:46

But but but I mean, but ultimately like you can't say, hey, I'm gonna continue growing this thing, but I really want to do this, but I'm gonna continue focusing doing this. Like that would drive me crazy.

SPEAKER_00 1:08:56

I guess the growth was, you know, shifted to make more money to fund that, you know, that dream.

SPEAKER_03 1:09:03

Yeah, but but and then being good at what it is that I do and you know yeah, but you then you answered your you answered that question yourself by saying that growth without better process is not going to lead to more money. So we need to focus on process. Yeah. Yeah. That's already um, but then I would be looking at it every day saying, How am I gonna start building this out? If that's what you wanted to do. I mean, yeah, like I and I and like if you didn't really have a that dream, I would tell you don't do that because that's gonna it's gonna be that that's hard. Yeah. But um, but if you want to build it, I think you should go out and build it.

SPEAKER_00 1:09:39

Yeah, okay.

SPEAKER_03 1:09:41

If it's the thing that you you know can't sleep at night thinking about, like that's my dream, and I've been to it. That's how it came across when you presented it to me. But only you know the truth. I don't know the truth.

SPEAKER_00 1:09:51

Yeah, no, I know the truth. Yeah, okay. Dave, can I ask you another question? Because I know you're busy guys. So now where you're at, how do you when you were growing your business, how did you decide where to put your time and effort, you know, if you're being pulled all these different directions by the growth, you know?

SPEAKER_03 1:10:12

Um trial and error. I mean, and I'm not always the best at it, but it's really forcing yourself to go through the process that we went through today, which is, you know, what are the things blocking me, keeping me, blocking me from getting what I want to get or achieving what I want to achieve. And every day ask yourself that question like what are the things that are blocking me that or what what um what would make success inevitable for me? And if I just do and then just focus on those things. And so every day I still do that. It's like, you know, like um, what is it that I need to focus on today that is going to unlock all the other things I want to do? I mean, and that and that may change day to day. Sometimes there are blockers that come up that you're saying I've I've got no choice but to drop everything else to focus on this because it's my blocker. But like constantly asking yourself, what is in between me and what I'm trying to achieve? But that's why you have to know what it is you're trying to achieve. Because if you don't know that, you're never going to be able to answer that question. That's what that's what I'm trying to get out of you. Because it's not me trying to tell you, hey, go do X, Y, or Z, because I don't care what you what you want to do. I but I want I want to know what you want and then reverse engineer what's blocking you from achieving that. And then that's what you focus on is unblocking it. Yeah. You see, but like, but the problem is you don't you like you're you're going in a thousand different directions because um you're not really clear on what you want. You think you are, but you're not.

SPEAKER_00 1:11:47

Yeah, no, I understand. It's that decision that has to be made. Well, you you have to know where where you're going, it's a decision that has to be made, right? Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 1:11:55

Yeah. I mean, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:11:56

Internally.

SPEAKER_03 1:11:57

Yeah, you internally. Because then like if once you make that decision, once you commit and then pulling in a hill, like once you once you've already in your mind told yourself that that is your truth and like you've committed to that fully, then you're going to start taking actions that are consistent with that. Gotcha. But you're not doing but you haven't committed, so you're taking actions in a lot of different directions.

SPEAKER_00 1:12:17

I I I guess I never saw it as like trying to grow the business and scale the business and then have this dream, you know, as you know, conflicting um or pulling myself in a bunch of different directions. But I I understand.

SPEAKER_03 1:12:30

You can't just like build this thing for the next five to ten years and then magically pivot all your energy into your real dream. Like that's that's I mean, it sounds good, but that but um it's not how it's not how energy works, right? I mean, in the sense that like you can only put your energy in one focused direction. Gotcha. And you know, the um I did a stupid short form video on this that they may they maybe do, but but it's like the idea of like a laser pointer versus a flashlight, right? It's like you think about like you like like which one has more more power. Um, and you know, the more focused you can be, um, the more power you're gonna have. Um, but you know, but but really figuring out like what it is that you want. I mean, it's the conversation that I have over and over again on this podcast, actually, is so fascinating to me. Um, you know, so it's your problem is not unique, although I think you're you have a unique manifestation of it, which is so always so interesting to me. Um, but you know, ultimately you're gonna have to decide what you really want. Yeah. And there's no right or wrong answer, but but um, you know, as you say, there are no tears in the casino, and that like once you um once you make that decision, then you gotta own it. And you know, know it that that even when it's painful that you that you own it and you're comfortable with that.

SPEAKER_00 1:13:54

Yeah, I understand. Gosh, I have more questions for you, but now you you drew me have you drawing a blank. Um No, I mean, I understand everything you're saying, and uh Yeah, no, I get it. I as some somewhere along the line, you know, chasing revenue is what the carrot that took me away from Yeah, and I've been there.

SPEAKER_03 1:14:17

I mean, it's so easy because you always think more revenue is gonna solve my problems, but um the more revenue without a lot dialed-in process is not going to solve your problems. Right. I mean, like if practical advice or practical how I would think about it from your situation, um, from you know, obviously from a little bit I know, I think you're probably in a pretty good situation in that like you're in a niche industry that you know there's not a ton of people that can do what you do, and you have a lot of like specialty knowledge at this point. You've been doing it for a long time. Um, and I would say, you know, make your business as it is today a well-oiled machine, um, and focus on harvesting cash from that business. Um, and you know then start to put your real energy in building what you want to build. Um but but that that but that's if you really want to Yeah, whatever it takes to get there. Yeah, if that if that's really what you want to build. Yeah. Um and I think your business is probably in a position where you can do that. Um but you know, I think that you know, in a niche industry like yours, continuing to like scale at a fast pace is going to likely be expensive and take your energy to to do that. And like I don't know that that's consistent with And why do you say that? Why do I why do I say it's going to be expensive? Yeah, yeah. Well, um the more market share you take in a um like if you if you if the full pie is $100 million a year, as you said, um generally, historically, to take not the paint booth business, that was just like more of uh the service side of things and everything, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:16:05

Um because my competitor does like $85 million in in the paint booth business. They they're the titans of the of the industry.

SPEAKER_03 1:16:13

Okay, so even if it's a couple hundred million dollars, they do eighty-five million dollars and you'll say you're gonna do twelve this year, right? Um That's true. Every the problem with small markets or maybe not the problem, but just the reality is um to take more market share gets more expensive the bigger you get because those people are gonna come back in and protect it, right? Um not universally true, but it's just you know, the it's it's gonna get harder to grow, you know, in a small market, the bigger you get by definition. It just gets more expensive. You're gonna have to have more established sales teams, most likely. You're gonna have to have um other product offerings. And um, I'm not saying like if you want to dominate that business, that's a completely different path. And I think you should go do that. But they but you but that's not consistent with building the business you say you want to build. You see the problem? Yeah. It's like like I'm not discouraging you from doing that.

SPEAKER_00 1:17:04

I'm just saying that like it's like it's gonna require more and more focus to you know So what keeps you from making that decision that you you've you've seen the same, you know, uh people having the same issue every every time they come to your podcast. So what is the uh the similarity between me and the last guy that had this dream but was doing this? Is it the fear of or the decision?

SPEAKER_03 1:17:30

A lot of times a lot of times what happens is people get to like $10 million of revenue and they're making um you know one to two million dollars a year on that. And um they um have already basically um you know achieved the original goal that they set out on when they originally when they originally started doing this. Um and then they say, well, um I asked them the same question, I asked you what do you want to do 10 years from now? And it's and the answer is always, I just want to do more of what I'm doing. And I say, and then um, you know, I try to get them to understand like what is it, what is it that they actually are looking to to build and and attach themselves to a larger dream. So like, you know, not everybody's has to be that big, but you need to have something that's gonna keep you that's gonna keep you going. Um, and so a lot of times people I get stagnant, they're not really growing, and they don't understand why they're not growing because they haven't actually attached themselves to some larger vision. You are are somewhat are unique, at least in people I've spoken with recently, about like you have a very big vision that you seem to be passionate about. Um, and so then it's the question becomes well, how do we attach your actions today with that vision? Right. That's what I'm trying to get you to do. It's like if like I want you to believe, like, even if it's growing this business, if you came and said, well, if I get to $20 million a year, making $4 million um, you know, of cash flow from this, then that will unlock me to make the investment I need to do this next thing. And then it's like, well, then how quickly can we get to this point and we reverse engineer that? But um, every time I tried to poke those around with you, you say, Well, I don't need to do that. Well, the, you know, I'm just trying to figure out what are the blockers from you.

SPEAKER_00 1:19:15

Yeah, not if you hit it on the head. That's what I'm trying to do is get it to about 20, 25 million bucks. I can, you know. But what I'm getting from you is just don't wait. Do whatever you got to do to get there.

SPEAKER_03 1:19:27

You're not getting it from me. I'm getting, I'm just I'm just parroting back what you're telling me. Like you told me that you told me that you don't need that to have to like I kept saying, well, what's actually stopping you said, well, I don't need four million dollars of cash flow to do it. Um so that's why we're kind of talking in circles. I'm just trying to to figure out what it is that you actually need to.

SPEAKER_00 1:19:47

Well, I think you helped me kind of reverse engineer it to figure out what I need to get there. Because I didn't really think about it that way, right? I just thought I need money and time, right? What everybody needs.

SPEAKER_03 1:19:57

Everybody wants money and time.

SPEAKER_00 1:19:58

Yeah. So I need more money, more time, more people. And that's but the reality is you really just need to make a decision.

SPEAKER_03 1:20:03

You need to commit. Okay. Because you're not because you know at least if what you told me is true, like it's not really that amount of money that's keeping you from doing it. It's that, you know, you um if you maybe worked on your processes for six months, got things dialed in, and then had the guts to go out and actually start your journey, then you'd be there.

SPEAKER_00 1:20:30

Yeah, I think you know, there's a lot of things that you're saying that are 100%. I look at this market and I'm like, okay, where can I cap off, right? Even if I did this, what and then I look at that that market and I'm like, okay, that's something I understand too and I like, right? And you know, my dream is to build housing for people that's affordable, right? And m more available housing.

SPEAKER_03 1:20:55

That's and I do think that there's big demand for that. Like I I like I I see the vision for that, but you have but it's not going to be an easy road. You look at how long it took you to get traction in your current thing, and you have to be prepared for that to be here. And you know, this is probably not popular and it's can and it's not consistent with what I would tell a lot of people. But I, if I were in your shoes, would probably do both and run this as a cash as my cash cow to fund that. But I think that that means you probably run the business differently than you have been, is my guess. How so? Well, you haven't been running it as a cash cow, you've been running it as a as a growth engine. Gotcha. Yeah. Right? Yeah, yeah. And even though you say you're gonna do it now, it's like, well, you but you're saying you want to have bigger growth this year than you've ever had. So it's just not consistent with running it as a cash.

SPEAKER_00 1:21:50

I I never saw it that way. I I thought that the growth meant you get there faster because you get make more money, you grow, and you know.

SPEAKER_03 1:21:57

But then you also said, because you like to repeat repeat platitudes, that if you scale a uh bad system, you're gonna get bad results. Yeah. And so you understand that very clearly. Yeah. So let's focus on the system. And then maybe maybe you'll find that you can continue to grow it with a better system. And that's great. Yeah. But so the pet so I mean to come back full circle, the answer isn't focusing on the process in the system of your current business, but the idea of making a cash machine, even if that means you're not growing as much, um, and then getting and then setting some targets, maybe cash targets that you say I'm gonna put aside, and once I get to a certain point, I'm gonna start investing in my dream.

SPEAKER_00 1:22:42

So on a practical level, are you saying that like for for for the company I'm currently operating in? It doesn't really matter how much you sell, it's how much how much you keep, basically, right? Because some people can sell 30 million bucks and then they're you know 25 million going out the door and they keep, you know, a million bucks or $500,000, right?

SPEAKER_03 1:23:03

I mean, that the to maybe even make it more clear is you know, to build the dream that you want to build, you need you're going to need capital. And so you want the most capital you can to be able to devote to your modular construction dream, right? Yeah. And so the amount the more that you can keep in this other business, the more capital you're gonna have to put into your dream. Yeah, yeah. And so that's all you care about. Like you're like how much you're gonna be keeping in that business. And the thing is, as you scale your business, like you're you're you're in a capital-intensive business. Um, your current bit both of your businesses are capital intensive, but this the this this paint booth business is capital intensive. So the more you scale, the more capital is gonna eat up. So ironically, by being smaller um and focusing on profitability, that's the only way you're gonna generate cash to do what you want to do. Okay. Because if you grow 50%, you're gonna find you have to start hiring more people. You're gonna have to hire, you're gonna have to buy more machines, you're gonna have to buy more um, you know, um sheet metal and all this other kind of stuff. And so what you're gonna find is you're gonna have less cash by doing that.

SPEAKER_00 1:24:19

Did that happen to you?

SPEAKER_03 1:24:20

Yes. Anybody that's in a manufacturing business knows that. But we're also in a different business, and that and part of the the secret of our business, I guess, is that you know, we basically get paid up front and we have a very small, um, we keep um a very fast cash conversion cycle. Gotcha. Um, but but yes, I mean, like in your business, the more the faster you grow, the less cash you're gonna have. That's just that that's just by definition. So that's why when I sit here and say, like you say, I want to grow this business, I'm gonna make this a cash machine, and I need cash to focus over here, like all those things, like growth is the thing that is inconsistent with that.

SPEAKER_00 1:24:59

Right. I gotcha.

SPEAKER_03 1:25:01

And and that's all that's all I'm trying to reverse engineer is like what is it actually going to take for you to fund this thing over here? Well, you don't want to grow 50% over here.

SPEAKER_00 1:25:12

You probably want to grow like five to ten percent, and you know, unless that was my dream all in, then it doesn't matter because we're we're getting where we're getting.

SPEAKER_03 1:25:20

Right, which which I think which which would be a that would be the more rational thing for you to do is to stick with this and to grow it, right? Like that would be the rational approach. Yeah. Um, but I'm I'm here to help you to achieve what you want to achieve. I mean, and and um I can only take you at face value for what you actually want to build. And if that's what you want to build, I'm giving you the playbook to do that and the permission to do it.

SPEAKER_00 1:25:43

Did you always do the rational thing?

SPEAKER_03 1:25:47

I don't I I mean, I quit I quit a job making two million dollars a year um to buy a dying industrial supply business um that was doing less than 300 grand a year in profit and bar borrowed two and a half million dollars to do it, and then started an air filter manufacturer. That's there, there's nothing about that that's rational. There's nothing about that that's rational. But I believed in myself and in the in what I was building, and I was willing to, I didn't ask for um anybody to feel sorry for me when things were going bad, you know. Yeah. Um, but it's not rational, but I believed in it. And um so, you know, you know, that like just because you believe in it doesn't guarantee success. But um I do I am a big believer that um if you really want to do something, you really have a dream to do something, and you um don't do it because you're scared that at the end of your life you're likely going to regret not trying. Yeah. I'm a big believer in that. That's why I'm not gonna, that's why I'm not gonna sit here and tell you only to do the rational thing. Um because but but only you can answer if you really want to do it, right? I'm not, I'm not, I'm I'm not telling you what to do. I'm just giving you permission to make a decision. I gotcha. Yep. But but once you make a decision, you have to be honest with yourself about what decision but what uh actions you're taking and whether or not they are consistent with the decision that you've made. And that's all I'm trying to point out. You understand that?

SPEAKER_00 1:27:16

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 1:27:18

I do.

SPEAKER_00 1:27:19

Makes a lot of sense, I honestly.

SPEAKER_03 1:27:22

Yeah. But you also, just for for for the record, should make sure your wife is on board with whatever you decide to do. She's on board. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I I married um. She's she never wants to stand in the way of my dream, you know? Yeah. Well then I think that's then that's very powerful.

SPEAKER_00 1:27:39

Um But I know what it well, I haven't gotten there, but I know what it comes with, right? More responsibility, it's more time, more more of everything that that's happening now. So people think it's gonna get easier. It's not gonna get easier.

SPEAKER_03 1:27:52

It's the harder road, but you're in a position, you set yourself up where you can. I mean, short term, like very short term, you know, you focus on making it. That cash flow machine. I mean, I I I want to see you do that. Like you still have to take that step first. Yeah. Right. Like there's no shortcutting of that. Yeah. You can't just go all in on this other thing. But um, I think that as possible for you to do that. Then you will have the option if you really do that to sell your business. My guess is you're going to be better off keeping it as a cash flow machine because there's so much crossover with your buildings and stuff like that for you to continue to push it into your other thing. That's just my guess. You're going to be better off doing that relative to the amount of money you would get for selling it. But um, you make it a cash flow machine and then you can decide what you want to do with it.

SPEAKER_00 1:28:34

I never looked at it like that. I mean, I know we're in business to make a profit, but I never looked at it as this is a cash flow machine, right?

SPEAKER_03 1:28:40

Well that's what you need to build because that's that becomes the thing that funds everything you do. Just like in my case, I'm I'm in a place where we're really making filter, we're really focusing on profitability more than ever. Um with the idea of I'm going out and starting to um buy distribution businesses um to kind of expand our footprint. And I'll talk more about it probably in the future. Um, but you know, I'm kind of going through that same thing where like, but it's all within one industry, which makes it, I think, a bit easier and it is all connected. Um, but you know, I think that at some point you have to realize when um you've built something that really can stand on its own, be a cash flow machine that then will fund whatever it is that you want to do next. Which is the which should be the ultimate goal for any business, I think.

SPEAKER_00 1:29:29

Sure, yeah. It's still within the same business in my mind, modular, you know.

SPEAKER_03 1:29:37

Yeah, it's it's you have to act to stretch a little bit more on that, but you you can argue that, but then that's even the more reason to make that into a cash flow machine that you can then add on these other things.

SPEAKER_00 1:29:48

Yeah, no, I got you. Got it. Let's focus on cash, making this a cash cow.

SPEAKER_03 1:29:55

Yeah, and I think you're in a position now where you can, and it's big enough where it is worth it to do.

SPEAKER_00 1:30:00

Yeah, I mean, I that's how I'm looking at it this year. I'm not looking at I mean, I was looking at at the revenue increase, and that was my primary goal.

SPEAKER_03 1:30:08

Now that you're, you know, you need this reasoning, it's uh but you but you understand that if you really increase your business by 50%, your cat your cash is probably gonna go down.

SPEAKER_00 1:30:18

Yeah, overhead goes down, people uh all the expenses go up proportionately. Your inventory is gonna go up unless you're like super, super efficient.

SPEAKER_03 1:30:25

Your receivables are gonna go up, everything is gonna and it's it's gonna be I would not be surprised if you went up fifty percent that you actually were cash flow negative.

SPEAKER_00 1:30:37

Yeah, and plus all the energy into managing this bigger uh you know business too. Yeah. I thought we were gonna tell you the opposite. Grow, grow, grow as much as you can, and you know, don't look back.

SPEAKER_03 1:30:53

I'm just trying to help you to get what you say you want to get or to achieve what you say you want to achieve. That's all I'm trying to do. Yeah, which it is, yeah. There's no right or wrong universal way, and that's kind of the point. But it um but yeah, I mean I have a lot of areas we could go, but I think that I think that we're gonna have to leave it there. Yeah, let's do it. Awesome. Thank you for your for all the advice. Thank you. I I I appreciate you showing up and being honest. And I I um look forward in you know, 20 years seeing that billion dollar modular construction business. And I can say that, you know, I I was the one that gave him permission to start it.

SPEAKER_00 1:31:35

All right. That's that's fine. Let's take you can take credit for it, no problem. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 1:31:40

No, I don't I won't take credit credit for anything other than um, you know, giving you permission.

SPEAKER_00 1:31:45

But um I came here with the intention of, you know, getting nuggets from you and I did. So I appreciate it. Yeah. Okay, Christian. Thank you.