Boring Money

He Makes $10M/Year in a Business Everyone Ignores

• David Heacock • Episode 16

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0:00 | 1:06:45

Daniel Morris started with no money, a borrowed £10,000, and a cleaning business that charged roughly £12 an hour.

Today, CanDo Laundry Services generates more than $10 million a year, operates three factories, processes over half a million items every week, and employs more than 130 people.

But this episode is not just the story of how a 19-year-old university dropout built an industrial laundry empire.

It is a real-time strategy session about what Daniel must do next if he wants to turn a successful regional operator into a $100 million company.

Daniel explains how he began cleaning houses himself, added laundry as a small upsell, and accidentally discovered a much better business after a wedding venue needed help processing its tablecloths and napkins.

That single customer introduced him to recurring revenue—and eventually changed the entire direction of the company.

We break down how Daniel:

• Started a business with almost no capital
 • Used a storefront to build trust with residential customers
 • Turned a small laundry add-on into a commercial textile business
 • Entered the rental market without owning the machinery or inventory
 • Designed a cash conversion cycle that funded his growth
 • Built an in-house industrial laundry after his largest supplier cut him off
 • Applied lean manufacturing principles across the company
 • Developed an inbound and outbound sales engine
 • Completed three acquisitions
 • Identified 50 potential acquisition targets across the UK
 • Plans to consolidate a fragmented $1.5 billion industry

The most important part of the conversation comes when we examine Daniel’s plan to grow CanDo from $10 million to $100 million in annual revenue.

Daniel initially identifies capital, people, and acquisition opportunities as the biggest obstacles standing in his way.

I disagree.

Capital can be found. Operational problems can be solved. Infrastructure can be built.

The real constraint is convincing the owners of roughly 50 independent laundry businesses to trust Daniel enough to sell to him.

That changes the strategy completely.

Instead of broadly trying to become more famous, Daniel needs to build his reputation with one very specific audience: the owners of the companies he wants to acquire.

We discuss how he can position CanDo as the operator-led alternative to private equity, preserve the legacies of family-owned companies, offer sellers cash upfront, and give them a second financial opportunity through equity in a larger combined business.

We also talk about why larger businesses often receive higher valuation multiples, how rollover equity can align buyers and sellers, and why Daniel’s ultimate $100 million vision may be more achievable than it initially appears.

This episode covers entrepreneurship at every stage—from doing the work yourself to building factories, managing capital intensity, acquiring competitors, and reverse-engineering a future exit.

It is also a conversation about founder motivation.

Does Daniel actually want to sell his company, or does he simply want another game to play?

Some entrepreneurs love operating. Some love making deals. Some love building and selling. Others want to collect durable, cash-flowing businesses and hold them forever.

Understanding which game you are really playing may be more important than any growth tactic.

Topics include:

00:00 – Building a $10 million laundry empire
 00:47 – Balancing work, travel, and family
 03:02 – Inside CanDo Laundry Services
 04:13 – Dropping out of university at 19
 06:55 – Starting with residential cleaning
 09:40 – Adding laundry as a new service
 11:39 – The wedding venue that changed everything
 14:44 – Cracking the textile rental model
 17:54 – Using the cash conversion cycle to fund growth
 21:39 – Scaling logistics and focusing the business
 23:42 – Daniel’s early door-to-door sales strategy
 28:02 – The supplier that suddenly cut him off
 31:04 – Building an industrial laundry in-house
 33:20 – Applying lean manufacturing principles
 34:24 – Inside the company’s $10 million operation
 35:03 – Building an inbound marketing engine
 38:04 – Evolving the outbound sales strategy
 39:29 – Unit economics and the barriers to scaling
 43:44 – Daniel’s acquisition strategy
 47:35 – The plan to reach $100 million
 51:42 – Identifying the real constraint
 56:27 – Structuring acquisitions with rollover equity
 1:01:07 – Founder motivation and knowing your game
 1:06:27 – Closing thoughts

Daniel Morris is the founder of CanDo Laundry Services, a UK-based textile management company serving the hospitality, medical, and industrial sectors.

This is Boring Money—the show about the unglamorous businesses, difficult decisions, and operating lessons behind real wealth creation.

SPEAKER_01

Today, we generate over $10 million every single year. We have three factories generating over uh half a million items a week.

SPEAKER_03

This is the 19-year-old genius who took a business that everyone thought was too easy into a multi-million dollar business.

SPEAKER_01

I started my entrepreneurial journey at the age of 19. I went to university, dropped out after studying the first year. I didn't have any money. I just didn't have any. And anyone can start a cleaning company is to grow the business to 100 million in turnover. That is the ultimate goal.

SPEAKER_03

I run a boring business that makes $25 million a month, and I know exactly how to take this business to the next level. If you want to know how to make your own $10 million empire, this is the best podcast episode on the internet. So for me, traveling is is not uh is not something that I necessarily you know choose to do or enjoy doing or find recharging. I find it to be kind of exhausting and tiring to an extent. So I guess that's why it's it's it's different, it's different for everybody. So we say longtime dead, that means something very different to me than traveling. But it's a very personal, it's a very personal thing.

SPEAKER_01

The memories or the opportunities that you see in terms of relating to the long-term dead, it could be different for everyone. And for me, when I travel, it gives me, it forces me and gives me the opportunity this to spend more time with my immediate family, i.e., my wife, my daughter, where in a normal setting, whether that be where I live or work or whatnot, I find the the balance or the placement to have a huge impact on the amount of time I come to spend and recharge like you're still working. Yeah. Um, so how do you balance that? Or the placement, and when it comes to travel or um setting up the business and my life so that I can travel, I see it as the opportunity to take advantage of the environments that I place myself in more so.

SPEAKER_03

So can you give me an example of that, of how you have used that recently?

SPEAKER_01

Uh yeah. So for instance, we went traveling around Australia for five weeks, and I really feel the benefit of a different time zone sometimes because I'm able to find that balance even better without my phone or my laptop dinging in terms of work.

SPEAKER_03

Because the work is happening like when you're awake, your work is sleeping.

SPEAKER_01

Exactly. Or the other way around. And um, yeah, therefore, I can apply myself in a manner that isn't impacting to my immediate family, whilst also achieving my work goals or the workloads that I set myself.

SPEAKER_03

Makes sense. So, Daniel, thank you for joining me on Boring Money. Um why don't you start off by walking me, walking me through what an average day for Daniel looks like?

SPEAKER_01

So my average day, uh it differs from day to day, from week to week, but more so where I spend most of my energy and focus is around mergers and acquisitions. So I look for opportunities in our wider ecosystem to bring companies into the fold and seize the opportunity to grow the business. So what business is it that you're in? So I founded a company called Can Do Laundry Services, which is based in the UK. We're a textile service solution management company. In other words, we're a laundry company. And we supply hospitality, medical, and industrial organizations with textile management solutions.

SPEAKER_03

And so when you say textiles, I'm I'm assuming you mean like towels and um bed sheets and this kind of stuff.

SPEAKER_01

Exactly. Towels, bed linen, table linen, uniforms, workwear, floor mats, roller towels, and anything textile, I would suggest.

SPEAKER_03

And so did you um how did you get into this business? Did you buy a business that was already doing it?

SPEAKER_01

Or no, so I started my entrepreneurial journey at the age of 19. I went to university, dropped out after studying the first year, and went on to take the University of Life, where I was able to start my business journey. I uh I started a uh I started And take just take a step back. You grew up in South Wales. Yeah, I'll give you I'll give you the context. So uh I grew up in a place called South Wales in the UK. Uh Wales is the poorest nation of the United Kingdom, and I was very entrepreneurial driven. I would be the kid in school selling sweets. So from then on, I've followed the traditional path wanting to go to university, studying business management and marketing. However, I got extremely frustrated with the course learnings. So we were learning about IKEA and Coca-Cola marketing strategies, et cetera, which is obviously wonderful and great. However, I felt I wasn't learning how to start a business and I wasn't learning how, you know, the first incremental steps of business. So I considered the time spent in university, was it the best use of my time? Or am I best off trying to apply myself to the world of business? So I did just that. I dropped out of university after studying the first year and I started a company called Can Do Domestic Services. And the idea was that we were a multifaceted cleaning company, essentially. So we would find a busy professional, ideally somebody like yourself, who valued a solution-focused organization to solve the domestic challenges. So whether it be cleaning, lawn maintenance, whether that would be property maintenance, and i.e., then laundry.

SPEAKER_03

So how did you pick this idea out of out of every out of every potential kind of entrepreneurial idea of how did you land that this that can do enterprises was going to be your thing?

SPEAKER_01

So one, it started with a mindset and can do came from the mindset of a solution-focused perspective. We can do anything was kind of kind of the idea, but very broad, unfortunately. And it all began by needing to find an industry that had very low barriers to entry. So why was that why was that? I didn't have any money.

SPEAKER_03

So you you you needed to have low barriers to entry because that was all you that basically all you could afford.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, all could afford.

SPEAKER_01

So and anyone can start a cleaning company, you know, you just need a mop bucket, a mobile phone number, and you know, hey presto, you're a cleaning company. Yep. The kind of the USP that I kind of had in mind to try and set ourselves apart from just that was that we had an office or maybe a shopfront where you could come in and meet us to have the confidence knowing, you know, we're not going anywhere.

SPEAKER_03

And so like you were you were primarily focused on residential or commercial at that point?

SPEAKER_01

Residential at that point.

SPEAKER_03

And so did you actually have people come to your office and meet you?

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, yeah. They came in through the front door, said, Hey, you know, can I uh employ your services for cleaning?

SPEAKER_01

And we just walked them through their offering and hey, presto. And were you doing the cleaning yourself in the beginning? I was, yeah. And I remember when you start, as I'm sure you have to do everything. So I was the cleaner, I was the finance assistant, I was everyone, HR. So but I remember when I was cleaning homes, bearing in mind it's not my favorite thing to do, but knowing this was not forever, it was just a necessity to get going.

SPEAKER_03

And how much were you charging at the time?

SPEAKER_01

Uh 12 pounds an hour, which is roughly what, $14 an hour.

SPEAKER_03

So that's quite cheap.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah. This is going back in 2012, so some time ago. But it was very competitive. But I was yet to learn like the fundamentals of business.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01

So I really saw it as the opportunity to just just to get going and learn like this.

SPEAKER_03

So how are you affording a a um shop front with that kind of low revenue?

SPEAKER_01

So when I was 19, I started the company at 19, and I was very fortunate to have um my granddad loaned me about 10 grand, and I paid him back. It wasn't for free, it wasn't a gift, but it was very much uh you know, yeah, I just appealed to his better nature and and he said yes, thankfully.

SPEAKER_03

And so what did you do with that 10 grand?

SPEAKER_01

It was predominantly used for working capital, and we got the shop front up and running and kind of put the infrastructure in place in terms of uh the systems and processes that we were gonna come to use.

SPEAKER_03

And so walk me through the trajectory of that business. So, like you started off with effectively zero, um, and well, I guess fast forward, like what does that business look like today?

SPEAKER_01

From zero, I went straight to negative 10k. So from then we grew the company in terms of the cleaning offering, which then diversified into lawn maintenance, which then diversified into property maintenance. I only ever did one job. These hands are not are not building hands, and uh it was a painful experience. And then the cleaning customers wanted us to do their laundry. So I said yes. There was there was pretty much nothing I would say no to at the time. I would do anything. So I said yes to the laundry, and then I went to a white goods store, bought a washing machine, tumble dryer, and an iron. White goods is like a like a um hardware store. Hardware store. It was um it was called Curries in the UK, and it would just be like a domestic machine that you have in your house. Nothing special, about 10 kilos. And from there, I was able to offer laundry services to a wider demographic.

SPEAKER_03

And because we had It's like like what we like, what was the like what did the customer that you were that hired you do? Like were they a restaurant or no?

SPEAKER_01

So at the beginning it was just solely residential.

SPEAKER_03

So it was very much uh Oh, it's so like doing their clothes.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah. Bedding, their own personal bedding and their own clothes. It you know, it was hard craft because you know the average order value may have been 10 pounds or you know, twelve dollars.

SPEAKER_03

And how are you even charging for it? By weight. Yeah. That's what they do here in here in New York where we're filming. They I I remember the first time I sent out my laundry to have it done was by weight.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01

And that was okay for a period of time because what I was doing is trying to increase the order value of our uh of our clients uh or this the lifetime value of our clients. Because you were already cleaning their house, and so this was like an add-on service for cleaning their house. As was the lawn maintenance. It was trying to try trying to grow our offering and our services so that we could generate as much revenue from a single client. The challenge there was that in South Wales, there's not the demographic in terms of our ideal customer profile. So the entrepreneur or the you know the high achiever in terms of somebody that can afford that can afford to outsource all of this stuff. Yeah, they just didn't exist. Yeah. So thankfully, and it was just by pure luck and co and coincidence, a wedding venue approached us. They saw the shop front, and they called and said, Hey, we've been let down by our laundry provider provider. Can you help us out? Tablecloths, napkins, that kind of thing. Yep. Yeah, obvious answer was Yes. We can do. Yeah, we can do, of course we can. No problem at all. So uh I remember jumping in the van, going to collect the items, bringing them back. And this is at the time I could only fit four tablecloths in the washing machine. Which we're charging maybe on an average two dollars a tablecloth.

SPEAKER_03

And were you doing this at your house? Right?

SPEAKER_01

No, at the at the at the storefront. Okay. At the storefront, yeah. Yeah. So it was like behind the scenes. So when you stepped into the shopfront, we had this this this long desk, and you know, you could meet and greet, etc. But behind the scenes, then that's when we would do the iron in, there was a desk, etc., and the laundry machinery.

SPEAKER_02

Yep.

SPEAKER_01

And we could only fit four tablecloths into the washing machine. So fine, this is great. And you know, I remember generating the first invoice for $200 and let's say $50 or something. I thought this is great. This is far different from the residential kind of bill or invoices that we were raising. And I had my first taste of recurring revenue. So being because they were doing these advances every weekend or whatnot and every week. Every week, week in, week out. So it kind of gave me the opportunity to understand a different business model and a different industry that I could apply the same services that I was offering. Then I went and researched the industry because of the industry being the wedding planning industry, the the commercial textile industry. So I was able to understand what it involved. And it was very rare that a wedding venue actually owns their own textiles. Because typically in the industry it's rented, so the textiles rented to the to the client, and inclusive of that rental agreement is a collection, delivery, and a cleaning uh service. So bearing in mind, I was I was living at home at this point, still 19, 20 years old. So I wasn't taking anything out of the business. I was just simply plowing all the profits that we were making back into the business and reinvesting, going from the white good domestic washing machine into laundrette kind of style machinery. Bit bigger, 18 kilos instead of the 10. And um still in the back of your storefront. Still in the back of the storefront. Um, but this time we, you know, we were incrementally increasing our capacity. So we went from one washing machine to two washing machines to three washing machines. And uh at a point then where we couldn't fit any more machinery in the street.

SPEAKER_03

And you started, and you did you move to their rent model in that case? Did you buy the linens and start start renting?

SPEAKER_01

No, so so I I faced a real challenge at the time. I I had this this wedding venue as a customer, and then I thought, great, let's go and find more of those. Yeah. Then I came up against, well, our camp the industry was very competitive, and they were supplying these venues at such a competitive rate that in reflection, I was I couldn't even clean it at the same rate. Couldn't even clean it for the same rate that they were providing everything. As they were renting the textile, so they had made the capital investment, they were able to collect, deliver, provide the cleaning and the textile at a far more competitive rate than I could just clean it alone. So the only way I was able to generate some traction was targeting venues that had their own textiles because I couldn't invest the capital into textiles. That allowed me to grow the company to about $200,000 in in turnover. And I thought then this was I really needed to crack the nut of the industry, the rental model. Otherwise, I was never gonna be able to grow in it. With a solution-focused mindset, I thought I have to find a way. So I had this wacky idea and I thought I know. If there's a big institutional player who is really great at serving, you know, the high volume hotel chains, etc., I'm able to target a boutique, hotel, 20 to 50 rooms SME market that they cannot serve very well. They're not, they're just not set up for that market. So if I approach them and I convince them to allow me to become their customer, and I have their authority to redistribute to this smaller SME market, then then what's not to like?

SPEAKER_03

So become the customer of the larger players, but you are basically servicing the smaller customers and giving the high-touch service that they that they need that they institutionally are not set up to do.

SPEAKER_01

Correct. And it did a lot of things for me in terms of the growth trajectory of the business because I was I went overnight being able to then compete very competitively in the textile service industry. Aaron Powell Without having to have the infrastructure yourself. No infrastructure, no capital constraints. Uh it was very much, you know, let's turn it on and dial it up. So I was ordering a pillowcase for 16 cents, and I was able to sell it for 45, 50 cents at the time. The wonderful, like the beauty looking back, you know, in history is that you know it gave me fixed margins, fixed price points. I didn't have any variables to can to contend with. So whether whether you know we were very efficient at producing a pillowcase today or not so much tomorrow, it had no impact to me because I had I had the ability to fix costs.

SPEAKER_03

And walk me through the cash conversion cycle of that. Like when were you getting paid versus when when when did you owe money?

SPEAKER_01

So same principle of how like looking back in history, I was very much I had the opinion if I was gonna go and do this in business, I understood that cash is king. So we have a seven-day end-of-month term. So what that means, technically the client has 37 days from the first day of the month, or they have seven days from the end of the month. Yeah. Either way, whatever takes place in the month of January, for say, was due on the 7th of February.

SPEAKER_02

Yep.

SPEAKER_01

So that allowed me to become cash positive because then my terms with my supplier were not for 45 days. That was already pre-negotiated.

SPEAKER_03

45 days from when you per from when you from end of month. From from end of month. Um so basically you had a 37 days afloat or 38 days afloat. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01

And is that is that a normal setup, the the net seven post a month, or is that is that no traditionally in the UK in the B2B sense, it's it's 30 days end of month. And typically they'd accept, I say they the industry would accept various forms of payment, whether that be backs payment or card or whatnot. We we set up with direct debit immediately. So that I think it's easier if you set your stall out straight off the bat, then you know the customer doesn't expect anything different. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03

Well, I think that the the lesson that I would hope that I would get from that, or I think that maybe somebody listening to this or watching this should get is that understanding your cash conversion cycle up front is incredibly important because it's something that if you had not had the thought process or the foresight to say, hey, I need to think about this, then you could even even given the you know, selling uh uh something for 45 cents that you buy for 16 cents, um, you can still get upside down from a cash conversion perspective if you um don't match your terms correctly.

SPEAKER_01

And obviously that relationship, that supplier relationship was have, you know, it was it was a key critical risk, but also an important relationship I needed to maintain. So I needed to ensure that payments were always on time. Correct. Otherwise, you know, my whole business model overnight would collapse.

SPEAKER_03

Right. Which is why I I think understanding your cash conversion cycle up front is so important and can be the thing that the make or break decision in what allows you to scale a business model versus not. Yeah, it is.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, it was one of those moments, I suppose, in reflection that if I hadn't done that, I probably wouldn't be where I am today.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah. So then what happens next?

SPEAKER_01

So um overnight, we were able to enter this market and it then gave us the ability to become the idea was to become like Amazon of the textile service industry. We pick and pack. Right.

SPEAKER_03

And it meant that we And so sorry, just explain that what that means is that you're dealing with the large vendors of the textiles, and you're basically picking, packing, and delivering to the end customer. But then are you do you are you owning the in-customer relationship in that case? Yeah.

SPEAKER_01

So we we owned we we owned the customer relationship.

SPEAKER_03

Yep.

SPEAKER_01

And then we were also responsible for the logistics of the textile to the end client. Yep. And in the world of textile rental, obviously the textiles have to come back.

SPEAKER_02

Yep.

SPEAKER_01

So it's like a recycling plant. That's the that's another way to see it, a laundry. You know, we we give textiles to uh to our clients, we give it, we then take soiled textiles, give it a new lease of life. We had to move locations to deal with the demand and and growth of the company.

SPEAKER_03

Because you're taking because you're taking delivery both of the of the finished stuff that then you have to deliver to the customer and the soil stuff that then you have to move back somewhere else. Yes. And were you doing, were you outsourcing all of the transportation? There or you were doing the delivery yourself?

SPEAKER_01

We were doing the delivery ourselves.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01

So we were responsible. So we had our own fleet of vehicles, delivery drivers, et cetera. But at that point, you know, we were still in the shop. So the storefront. So we had two or three delivery drivers. And at that point, you know, nowhere to store the textiles from soil to clean and the distribution. I remember having a like a 20-foot container at a parcel of land that was only big enough for the 20-foot container. And all the textiles went in there, both clean and soiled. And then it was very difficult to try and pack X for the client. It was just a nightmare. But you do what you need to do in order to get going. And that gave us the ability then to relocate into an industrial unit, about 5,000 square feet and 15 minutes away from our original location. And that point, then I made the decision to completely drop all of our domestic services. So we we went from can do domestic services to can do laundry and linen services and really laser in and focus on becoming one of the world's best industrial laundry services. And from then we we had some bumps in a road, which I think is worth mentioning because it sounds all great. But what you can't control when you're dealing with such a relationship with a big institutional is quality. So they're dealing with quality parameters for high-volume hotel chains that may have different quality expectations compared to the SME boutique market. But I had no way of controlling the quality because of the middleman. Because I was just the middleman.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah. Well how were you acquiring customers in that period? Uh I was the sales guy. So it was like door-to-door sales, basically?

SPEAKER_01

Pretty much. Yeah. I remember going to uh going, I had I had like a round. So I would have I would have different regions in South Wales, and every week I would go to a different patch. And I used to, in order to get past the gatekeeper, I used to go to our local like grocery store, pick up packs of Welsh cakes.

SPEAKER_03

What's a Welsh cake for the non-Welsh of amongst us?

SPEAKER_01

A Welsh cake is like this wonderful scone-like um biscuit with raisins and whatnot. If you haven't tried one, I'd really suggest you try one. It's wonderful.

SPEAKER_03

Where can you get a hot Welsh cake in the US? Do you know? Uh I have no idea. I don't know that I've ever had one. Have you not? Not to my knowledge.

SPEAKER_00

I'll have to send you some. Yeah. I'll send you some. They won't be hot though.

SPEAKER_03

I will I'll put it on my bucket list.

SPEAKER_00

When you're across, you're welcome to.

SPEAKER_03

But it's like the equivalent in the in the US, I think the equivalent move would be going to the Krispy Kreme and getting the donut. The hot the hot donuts and then delivering them because that that that would be the that would be the sales the sales trick here, I think.

SPEAKER_01

Yes. Because I faced gatekeepers, you know, the receptions or uh whatnot. Bearing in mind, this is when this is going back, what, 14 years ago. There wasn't quite the information readily available of who the key contact was, etc. I was can't go on Zoom info or nothing like that, you know. And therefore, an AI obviously didn't exist then. So I was very much boots on the ground every time I visited, I you know, the main mission and goal was to get information so I could then reach out to them in a more personable way to convince them that they should should consider us as their textile partner.

SPEAKER_03

And so basically you have a route where you're going to like hotels primarily. Um, and then like who do you actually want to speak to? Like who like when you're good when you're there, like who are you looking to talk with?

SPEAKER_01

Decision makers, essentially. So they would be owners, they would be directors, FDs, general managers, or the person that kind of influences those decision makers would be the head housekeeper.

SPEAKER_02

Yep.

SPEAKER_01

They would face the challenges, the operational difficulties that would then cause them to go to their decision maker and say something needs to change.

SPEAKER_03

And so would you say that you would generally win customers when a the incumbent vendor was not delivering what they promised?

SPEAKER_01

Yes. That was where we would almost take the opportunity to showcase the difference in terms of the service and the reliability, consistency that they would come to receive from us. And I still have clients today that I've been able to service for the last 10, 10 odd years because of just that that that opportunity. From there, from that moment then, when we were relocating down to a different factory in size and scale, and we've gone past and was able to acquire different clients. We had been personally invited to tender for a resort. There's not many resorts in South Wales, there's only one or two. And uh, so therefore it's a big deal. Yep. And the operations director of this particular resort personally invited me to tender. And what what what led to that opportunity? It was just by chance. I I would, you know, part of it in my growth trajectory is also a sprinkle of luck.

SPEAKER_03

Like there was nothing nothing all too well, you have to put yourself in the position to win. You have to have the infrastructure, the reputation, and all those kind of things. And then then then luck plays a part.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah. I did I did knock the door once or twice, and you know, I didn't reach him at the time, but had this personal invitation to tender. And my this was we were still sub uh being supplied by this big institutional supplier. And my thought and logic was that if we win, they win. If they win, because they were also in the mix for this tender, so if they win, they win. They have two cracks of the whip. What is there not to like? They didn't see it that way. So this was probably a year into the relationship.

SPEAKER_03

Meaning that they did not want you to bid on that business, correct.

SPEAKER_01

They saw us growing too quickly, and it kind of made them nervous about what does the future hold.

SPEAKER_03

And was this company only operating in Wales or were they they were all over the UK?

SPEAKER_01

All over the UK. All over the UK. And we were spending maybe $35,000 a month with them and growing. And I really, really thought, what's that was there not to like? However, when they caught sight that we were also tendering for it, they immediately served us notice and said, thanks, but you're growing too fast. We're not sure that we want to continue the relationship. Here's three months notice.

SPEAKER_03

And so what's the lesson for you in that?

SPEAKER_01

Uh well, just like key man risk, I had too much of a dependency and risk on the relationship with that particular supplier. Another thing would have been to develop the relationship in a closer fashion so that my movements and my course of direction would have been upfront or uh more in succinct with the institutional.

unknown

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah, I mean to me it's it kind of comes down to when you're the middleman in any scenario, um you're the most likely to be squeezed. Um because um other people hold leverage. They do, yeah. And and that's uh and a lot of business models that are built on a single platform, for instance, or um you know, require on require one key vendor um are oftentimes riskier than they look.

SPEAKER_01

Absolutely. Yeah, they are. I suppose, but you don't know what you don't know at the time, right? So it was very much I was I was 23, 24 at the time.

SPEAKER_03

So and and and at that moment in time, before they served you, um, did you have any thought of competing with them? Or were like were you were you thinking about starting to internalize it yet?

SPEAKER_01

Or no, no, I well I had so I had quality concerns for some clients, which meant then I had a basic infrastructure in terms of a laundry service that we were still serving in-house. So, you know, some washing machines, dryers, an ironing machine, etc. In a very small way. I could never have done the same volume that I was I was serving with the institutional buyer. So because the margins were clean cut in terms of fixed, I never had the desire to go fully fledged into a variable market. So but because we moved into a new uh facility, I then had space, which I was able to facilitate the development and growth of our own industrial laundry. So as soon as I was served notice, that's exactly what I did. And I built my own laundry.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah, and so in in some ways, by um cutting you off, they forced you to be stronger.

SPEAKER_01

Oh, absolutely. I'm of the mindset as well, being solution focused, that nothing is insurmountable. So, you know, back against the wall, there's always a way.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah, I agree, other than perhaps death.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, I I agree with that one. Yeah. Um anyway, the from there, uh, we built the laundry and I was able to facilitate different ways of working. We were now able to control the quality, had to make the textile investments and so on, so that we were able to continue the expansion and customer acquisitions.

SPEAKER_03

But how did that change your capital structure? Like obviously, you know, you're you're now in a position where you were very capital light, and and you have to go out and you know, buy all of the product that you before were were not responsible for. Yeah. Um, how did you fund that? How did that change the economics of your business?

SPEAKER_01

I mean, because we had the uh positive cash flow cycle that was uninterrupted. However, it just meant our growth was slower because our risk appetite changed because it was our own capital, it was our own textile, it was our own um infrastructure that we become dependent upon. So, therefore, how efficient uh we were at supplying or cleaning, sorry, a pillowcase, for instance, massively impacted our price point and therefore the ROI on our textile investment. As we were investing into plant and equipment, that was taking our cash and putting it into these pieces of kit that was able to generate revenue for us, but it all takes time so just slower, really, just slower. But it also gave us lessons learned as to become, you know, a lean mean laundry machine in the context of uh we we've adopted lean principles of lean manufacturing and uh you know the eight forms of waste and so on. And that was really the the next step of our growth trajectory because we were able to apply lean not just to the factory floor but to everything that we come to do. And it was kind of a personal fascination about lean and how the ways are working. I used to, before I discovered lean, I you know would make do. So if something was half broken or it was just enough to get by, you know, but the team were complaining or whatever, uh you know, I'd say don't don't complain, whatever, just just get on with the job, so to speak. Whereas when I when I learned the lean principles, oh wow, it's like overnight, two second lean, and you know, by Paul Acres, hugely inspirational, and it really helped move our business into just the next stratosphere. So, what does the business look like today? So, today we generate over $10 million every single year. We have three factories generating over uh half a million items a week. We service the hospitality, medical, and industrial sectors across the country. We employ over 130 people, and we've been ranked one of the best industrial laundries worldwide.

SPEAKER_03

It's quite impressive. What does your sales infrastructure look like today? Like how are you how are you continuing to work on growing the business?

SPEAKER_01

There's there's two strategies that we have. So an inbound and outbound strategy. Uh so I'll talk about the inbound first. It's heavily geared towards uh Google AdWords and being found, and that's a conscious kind of marketing strategy. It's the same principle. I always say wherever you are in the world, if I said you've got a puncture today, where you're gonna go, in the UK, there's a there's a company called QuickFit. I've never used them before in my life. But I just remember this advert I think was on TV, right? And I tried adopting that same principle as to becoming the go-to when something goes wrong. So everyone has a number one supplier because they they they're obtaining attention.

SPEAKER_03

And just to for a US audience, I would say like the equivalent would be like the first thing that comes to mind for me is like Safe Light, which is a you know um windshield replayer. Safe light replaces their is their model or whatever. But like one of those things, like if you have a windshield repair, they're the only one that I that I at least know of, and I think most people would say that. And they're you could go through like different um market segments for air filters, filter buy is obviously the one. But but but but you know, but but but but but yes, I mean like that that is the that that is what you're referring to, just to kind of put it to a because everyone has uh has a supplier.

SPEAKER_01

So if those that have a textile need and those that have looked to outsource their textile need, they're already being served.

SPEAKER_02

Yep.

SPEAKER_01

So that is the trickiest part about what we do in terms of acquiring a new client because they already have a supplier that they may be very satisfied with. So you know it's it's either cost, quality, or convenience as to why they look to change.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01

And when something was to go wrong, because things happen, who do they turn to? So I try to be that in terms of their in their mind. So that's subconscious marketing.

SPEAKER_03

It's another way of saying reputation, I think, in your in in your world. I mean, and um I mean it's true for any of these, but you know, you're really going after a very specific niche. Yeah. Um, meaning like you don't need everybody in Wales or the UK to know you. You just need, you know, people in the hospitality industry to to know you and respect you. So like that's really your audience that you're going after.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01

So we try to target that kind of strategy in terms of being found when when somebody's looking. It's is connecting the also unconscious mindset or bias to a conscious solution and um trying to bridge that gap. And then so from there, we we have uh a funnel that typically is dealt with AI these days, before it was me. And uh the speed to connection in terms of from an inbound to how quickly I could jump on the phone, you know, was hugely, hugely important in terms of the conversion of that particular are you still the one jumping on the phone for inbound leads? No, no, not anymore. So who does that? Uh I have I have a team. So I have a head of commercial, I have a sales manager, and I have uh a couple of reps that uh that are responsible for converting inbounds.

SPEAKER_03

And what about your outbound strategy? What does that look like?

SPEAKER_01

So outbound. So we uh we've gone over the course of time and we change it when something's not working, you know, we try to pivot to recognize and take the lessons learned from it. So originally we set up uh a small team where we'd have uh business development managers on the road and they would go and visit these venues and collecting data and information and contacts where we would then be able to kind of nurture that lead and they would go around in different regional patches every five weeks to try and capture it. So basically what you were doing before yourself. Yes. Yep. However, depending how successful or not successful that they were, we then pivoted to uh an appointment setting structure whereby they would only go and attend on the basis of a successful appointment that they were able to organize via the telephone means. And we found like a almost like a 90% uptake in terms of our conversion cycle by having a successful appointment set rather than just turning up off the boom. Yep. And from there, they just enter the deal funnel uh in terms of how they come into our business, whether that be inbound or outbound, it's all about the nurture process. And it's we're more consultative sales rather than you know a hard or um particularly soft. It's all about finding a solution to their textile problems.

SPEAKER_03

Makes sense. So if you do call it $10 million a year of turnover, um how big of an opportunity would you say this is in the UK? Like if you're $10 million a year, what's the total adjustable market?

SPEAKER_01

The the market is approximately $1.5 billion in terms of its offering. So that it's quite a quite a chunk to still uh target, to say the least.

SPEAKER_03

So what what are the barriers keeping you from being 10 times the size you are today?

SPEAKER_01

Uh so one capital, two, people, and three, opportunity. So I suppose the opportunity can be addressed in terms of the other two in ways of capital. To set up something similar to what we've done today, you need millions, millions and millions in terms of plant and equipment.

SPEAKER_03

There's a um piece of so so let's let's unpack that. Like um, have you spent has it has have have you reinvested your profits in terms of millions and millions of plants and equipment to get to get to where you are today?

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, that's exactly what we've done. Over the course of years, you know, any we have a very capital-intense business model that we purposefully keep at the forefront of our uh minds and our actions in terms of reinvestments into planting equipment to ensure we're working with the most efficient.

SPEAKER_03

So let's break that down down a little bit. Like let's say you do $10 million a year of turnover. Yeah. Um, you know, what percentage are you taking or are you expect showing a net profit? And like what is your depreciation charge on that?

SPEAKER_01

We have a we have a gross profit margin of around 50%. Yep. And we have a net of around 15 to 20 percent. And that's before or after depreciation? That's after.

SPEAKER_03

That's after depreciation. So that's still that's still healthy. So you're a so uh and like how like your depreciation, like what is the life cycle of the equipment that you're buying? Like how often are you having to replace it?

SPEAKER_01

Uh it can range from five to fifteen years, depending on what it is and what vendor supplies it. They're all known for different things, quality, cost.

SPEAKER_03

If you said, okay, I'm going I doubled my sales team, you know, and or doubled my sales budget, you know, whatnot, like how does that change your revenue trajectory?

SPEAKER_01

The return on investment in terms of our textile investment is is 10 months cycle. Yep. Roughly. Depends how successful the sales team is in acquiring clients. All depends on the trajectory of the business. And that is the the nut to crack in terms of the scalability of our business in terms of sales. Say that again, maybe, maybe rephrase it for me. The return on investment in terms of textile investment, specifically when it comes to setting up new clients, because we have to buy more textiles.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah, you've got to you've got to buy the the goods that you're rent renting to them.

SPEAKER_01

Yes. So that's a nice, easy calculation in terms of calculating the return on investment. Yep. Great and it's a really healthy uh business model because our average lifetime value of a client could could last 10 years, right?

SPEAKER_02

Yep.

SPEAKER_01

The sales acquisition, finding the right people to scale and adopt the nuances of the industry is one of the most difficult challenges for us. Finding the right salespeople, yeah.

SPEAKER_03

So and that's why you like acquisition better because you can basically buy the customers rather than trying to train the Salesforce because you've you've struggled to scale Salesforce sales aspect.

SPEAKER_01

Correct, yeah. And not only that, most of our clients are bound by contract anywhere from three to five years. So the big institutional buy or the big institutional suppliers. I remember having a conversation uh with one. They turn around and said, we can build a laundry anywhere.

SPEAKER_02

Yep.

SPEAKER_01

We have the capital.

SPEAKER_02

Yep.

SPEAKER_01

One thing that we don't have is contracts.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah. Yeah, because these are sticky, long-term, hard to get people to switch. Um that makes sense to me. Like, let's walk through the competitive landscape of this a little bit in that you want to go through acquisition, which I actually think makes a lot of sense. I mean, I I I get that. I I understand why growing organically is difficult. I mean, obviously having a strategy for that is important, but I can see how doubling, you know, organically is is not a Not an easy feat. Um but when you look at it, like do you have have you mapped out the number of targets that you think exist uh you know for potential acquisition in in your world?

SPEAKER_01

I have. The industry has gone through consolidation over the last, I'd say, five to ten years, where the big institutional uh acquirers have have taken any meaning of a of an SME and and swallowed them essentially. However, there the the current landscape has SME operators that have been family owned for the last hundred years or whatnot.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01

They are they they've been doing it well, they've been operating, they're kind of comfortable in their certain regions or the size and scale of which they are. They're not looking to you know conquer the world or e uh have an exit. Yeah. They're just doing what they're doing. Those are the opportunities I see in terms of developing the relationship and uh acquiring those to become part of something bigger.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01

Anything over so they'll be roughly anywhere from one to maybe five million uh in turnover.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01

The ones that are in excess of that, the 10 to 20 million turnover, the big institution, the institutional buyers have already acquired them.

SPEAKER_02

Yep.

SPEAKER_01

So the landscape um in the UK market right now is one where the institutional buyers don't have their opportunities. And I feel like we have we have the ability to be underneath the radar in order to Yeah, it makes perfect sense.

SPEAKER_03

But I guess the question is how many of these businesses exist?

SPEAKER_01

So roughly the hospital or the tactile service industry uh has about 400 players in totality.

SPEAKER_03

So it's so it's so it's 400. So like uh it's possible for you to get in front of all of them effectively.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, of course, yeah.

SPEAKER_03

And like how many of them do you think fit your under 5 million a year turnover profile? At least 50 of them. At least 50. And have you already do you already know who those 50 are? Yes. And you're you started having conversations with them. Yes. And but you are you saying that the only thing that's keeping you from doing this strategy is access to money?

SPEAKER_01

Well, and no, it's also mindset of the uh of the vendor. So meaning the the seller.

SPEAKER_03

The company, the the existing company.

SPEAKER_01

Yes. So for many people when I have these conversations, they believe that uh when it comes to a sale, they want their pot of gold up front on day one, and they'll then skip off into the sunset and live a happily forever after. The reality is that there's just too much risk attached to that uh model, and it's understanding the mindset and the motivations as to why somebody looks for a sale, and then structuring it in such a way that it, you know, it suits both both parties.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01

So how do you think you can solve that? One, it's an educational piece, and uh two, it's then finding solutions for that particular individual and and understanding their motivations as to why they're looking at selling and seeing if we're a great fit and can offer them what they're looking for in a sale, which is not just a cash uh or a check.

SPEAKER_03

Um, you know, as a as a bit of a thought strategy, you and I had dinner last night, and um, you know, I I said, I guess I should ask you now, but uh we can go over what you told me. But um what um what is your ultimate goal with this business?

SPEAKER_01

So is to grow the business to a hundred million in turnover. That is the ultimate goal, and and develop one of the best industrial laundries worldwide.

SPEAKER_03

And then ultimately to sell it. And then to sell it. Yeah. Which I think if I was giving you advice on how to execute this strategy, I think this is actually a key point. Wanting to sell it um puts you in a place where if I were in your situation, I understood the this business as well as anyone, um, and wasn't was an operator in this business as you are, what the selling point to these other companies would be okay, we're going to create a um create, you know, the leading company in this space that's operator-led. And, you know, together, if we partner together, um, we're we have a much bigger opportunity to ultimately sell out for a much bigger payday than you're going to be able to get as a smaller independent operator. Um, and then ultimately giving, you know, structuring a deal where you probably have some cash consideration up front, but then they ultimately are rolling over their equity into a um, you know, to your larger fund or your larger business with the intention on a setting yourself a time frame of five years or seven years, we're going to sell this for you know a much higher multiple than we would be able to get independently. Um, and so you know, if I were in your shoes, I would be um building the organization that was the best operator of this, be able to prove the value in the economies of scale that you get from you know being a good operator. And then it becomes like those 50 people, but that's a very small in the business world, very small. It's like, okay, you want to you want to be known as the best operator to them and be able to prove the economies of scale and value that you bring and get them to believe that, hey, together with Daniel's leadership, we can ultimately in five years set um create this much larger company and sell for you know double the EBITDA multiple that we would have been as a smaller player, right? Um, and then like um the way private equity funds that do this well in the US at least and probably everywhere, is when you have that exit, oftentimes um the people that are involved will get a bigger check when they do the bigger exit than they did initially. Um, but you have to build the both the reputation and the the the operational business that would allow that to happen. Does that make sense? Yeah, it makes perfect sense. Makes perfect sense. So what's keeping you from doing that?

SPEAKER_01

I think we're in some way on our way to that. It's just more of a you don't believe in it yourself yet. No, I I I believe in it. 110% I believe in it. It's more of a case of refining it for the execution, more so. It's setting it up in such a way that those that can be part of the fold, pardon the button, but part of the fold can can become part of it. It's and their mindset. Because bearing in mind, they look to me. I've been on the scene for 14 years. Some of these guys have been doing it or the from a family company perspective, you know, over a hundred.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01

Therefore, their legacy is also important.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01

And I've been somewhat successful in terms of the three acquisitions that we've that we've done, where I'm able to protect our legacy and show them that by handing or becoming part of the can-do fold, that we can go on and and achieve prosperity together, or the company will at least. Yep. Some of those within the space just take a bit more convincing. That's all. A bit more time, which is you know, patience is a virtue. I'm a very impatient entrepreneur, I want to scale, I want to grow, I want to develop, uh, you know, conquer the world, as it were. And sometimes it doesn't happen that way.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah, but I guess, you know, like when I ask you what's keeping you from doing this, you gave three roadblocks to keeping you from doing it. And it seems to me it's really uh just one or one that matters, and that is ultimately getting people to believe in you to uh you know sell their business to you in a structure that makes sense, makes sense for everybody. I mean, like that that is that is the that is the roadblock. So like if you're thinking about what are you going to focus on, focus your energy on figuring out, it should be that. The other stuff is kind of irrelevant.

SPEAKER_00

Secondary.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00

Take it on board.

SPEAKER_03

Um because I mean I think that you know, under like it's so easy to to you know, for all of us to you know come up with all the reasons why something doesn't work or or some why now it's not the right time or any of those things. But ultimately, for me at least is helpful to distill into like what is that what is the actual blocker. Because like I guess is if you had if you had if you had three people that were good businesses that you understood that wanted that were eager to sell to you tomorrow, that fit everything else, that all the other things would be overcomable. There are lots of ways you can fund that. I mean, like that's not the problem, that's the excuse.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, it is. Sometimes it takes moments of reflection, doesn't it?

SPEAKER_03

Yeah, I mean, I I think it's it's it's it's not easy or obvious because we all like day to day, like we all tell ourselves these other problems. You see all these other problems, but um, but even if you solved all those problems, then if you haven't fixed the the core problem, it doesn't matter, it doesn't matter. Um, and when you're thinking about like, okay, um, what do I actually want to achieve? That's that's why I keep at I I've asked you like in the two times we met, I keep asking you, like, what's what are you really looking to do? Well, you you want to sell your company, that's helpful. Do you know that's helpful to know? Well, then you can reverse engineer all this other stuff. The real roadblock is you've got to get those these 50 people to trust you enough to do it, to do it. And so if I were you, I would, I would be 100% of my energy is figuring out how to make that happen. You talk about like I know you have a YouTube channel and um you're it's something you're thinking a lot about. Um, and you know, whether or not YouTube is right for you, I don't know. But like if if you really are serious about the the goal that you say, and that that really is what you want, and and if that's really true, then the only content you should be making is content that is going to get those 50 people to sell to you. Your content is for those 50 people. There's nothing else matters.

SPEAKER_00

I agree. Yeah, it makes sense. Yeah, it just takes a moment of reflection sometimes.

SPEAKER_03

It's so easy to listen to advice, you know, from anybody, myself included. Um, and you know, kind of I think that one of the problems with uh like you made a comment yesterday to me, which I've fallen into this this trap, and I think a lot of us do, is why I bring it up that you made a comment that um, you know, you spent the last day like listening to podcasts and listening to to other business leaders. And I think it can be helpful because it is entrepreneurship can be such a lonely thing, right? And so you're trying to figure it out. Um, but you know, you've you've built this quite amazing business in a um you know, in a very good industry or very, you know, stable long-term industry that's that's unlikely to to go anywhere. And you've built, you've kind of built your you've crafted your niche and your um reputation and and edge in that, which incredibly hard to do. I mean, like um, as you just said yourself, like to to you've built this $10 million a year business, but you know, to double that organically would be incredibly difficult. But but that that shows you how big of a um accomplishment it was for you to have done that in the first place because it's it's it's really it's really hard to do. That's why more people don't do it. Not impossible, but but but but very difficult. Um but then you know you start looking externally, we all do, for like how are we gonna like how are we gonna fix this problem? And you start trying to like look at how other people are fixing problems, but their problems are very different than yours. And that's why really taking the time to kind of unpack and kind of from a first principle is like, well, what am I looking to achieve? Which is this big business exit, at least part partly. Um, you know, how am I going to get there? Well, it's acquiring other businesses. Well, then, you know, what is the real blocker for that? It's finding finding people that are willing to sell that, sell those businesses. And so, like, all of your energy needs to be, you know, not on listening to you know, how to solve other random business ideas or business problems because they're not they're not actually the problems that that that matter. You don't need to solve all those things, you need to solve that.

SPEAKER_01

Do you think it has an impact with our ultimate goal of an exit? Has an impact of the attraction to others?

SPEAKER_03

100%. Um, and that that's why, like in my case, um, I have no interest in selling my business. That's something I want to build for the rest of my life. And so, you know, you cannot, I cannot with a I go to go to a somebody who wants to sell their business and say, okay, well, I will buy 60% of it today, and then you're gonna get a second bite at the Apple once once we combine it all and flip it in the in the future, right? I mean, like, um, whereas most private equity firms or a lot of private equity firms, say, like in the insurance industry, my lawyer does a lot, a lot with these. It's been quite common. They'll go to like a smaller insurance company. Um, they'll say, okay, um, we're gonna buy, you know, 55 or 60 percent of your business, um, you know, pay you cash for that, probably some some um whole bag, but mostly cash. Um, and then um it's gonna you're gonna have equity then in the you know combined group um that we're that we're then going to flip in some three to five year period to a larger private equity firm at a higher multiple. So you're selling to us at you know five times earnings or six times earnings, whatever, whatever the number is. Um, but then we're going to like um, you know, with our scale, you know, double the earnings over the next three to five years because of economies of scale and some you know growth. And then we're going to sell it for 10 times earnings. And so your 40% is actually worth more than what you sold us to in the in the beginning, right? And that's a compelling thing for a lot of entrepreneurs because it's a way that they can um de-risk, um, then get the backing and the infrastructure for somebody else. Somebody else is taking over the the day-to-day, but then they still get a larger, you know, financial win with it with that, with that backing. And so, like, like for you, like like your leverage then in this case is like, okay, um, larger businesses are gonna trade at a higher multiple than smaller businesses, like you've already articulated that, and that's normal. Um, and these businesses are not able to scale because they're kind of already have having the same problems you do with scale, or maybe they don't want to scale. Um, so they're not gonna be able to increase their multiple. But if you come in and you say, okay, well, we're the best at operating, we have all these economies of scale, and I've got all my my systems in place, which it sounds like you largely do. Um, and then you say, Okay, well, we're gonna bring you into this fold, and then our plan is in X number of years, we're going like I'm buying you for you know, five times earnings or whatever that the the thing is. Um, we get it to this hundred million dollar business, we're gonna be able to sell it for 10 times earnings. Yeah. Um, and you know, this is and you know, so I'm gonna give you some cash today. So you get, you know, you you and then you're you're paying them, you know, as as time goes on for, you know, um however you structure it. And then um at the end, they have a you know much bigger buy at the apple. So, like, like if I was if I was selling selling this to somebody, that's what I would be selling, is saying, like, okay, I'm the guy that's gonna go do that, and I'm gonna show you how I'm gonna do that. I'm gonna prove it to you. Um, and I have a track record for having you know built what I built. And and um, you know, but at scale is how we can go and compete with these private equity guys and then ultimately have a big exit. Um, but you know, ultimately your job is you're you're the salesperson to go sales to those, but you have 50 people that you're that you've targeted that you know you want to believe in you. And so it's like all of your energy needs to be how are you gonna sell that? Um, because if you do that, if you can sell that, um then the rest will figure it out. The rest of that will figure it out. Like it's a it's a viable plan. I mean, you have you've you've you've proven you can operate these things, you understand that. You know, I mean, you've already articulated, you know, if you get a big enough business, you're gonna get to hire multiple. That's a known thing. And so the question is, how do you create that? And um, you know, this this is this is the way you do it. And um, you know, I think it's it's the kind of thing that is also, you know, legitimately sellable to those people. I mean, like if they it it makes sense for them too. I mean, it's how they're gonna get the the bigger the bigger payday. Yeah, you're and you're de-risking them in the process, right? And you can structure it where you're de-risking them in the process. So that's how I would do it. Makes perfect sense. If you solve that, then you'll that's how you would like if you really want to achieve that goal, that's how you get there. Perfect. Everything else is noise. It is. Anything else we need to talk about?

SPEAKER_01

I suppose from your position on that side of the table and achieved what you have. Is there any single piece of advice that you would give to me knowing where I I am in my trajectory that you think separate maybe to the goal? Where you would see another entrepreneur, a younger entrepreneur, and what you wish you knew then that you know now.

SPEAKER_03

You know, um the um I think you have to know really what drives you. And the thing that makes me nervous about you, uh just like not nervous. I make you nervous. No, no, you don't make me nervous. But the thing that but the thing that the thing that that when I when I listen, when I having gotten to know you a little bit in the in the the time that we've been together, um, and I always ask you, you know, really what you want. And you know, you want to be very clear on what you want, um, but I don't I I feel like um, you know, I get mixed messages about about what that is. Like the so the guy I was talking to before, you know, is a trader and there's some other things, and he's he's absolute junky and risk taker. And that's that very much what what what drives him. Like for me, I'm driven by at the end of my life thinking, well, um, you know, oh, I really could have done so much more if I had only um you know taken a little more risk or or worked a little harder or um you know tried a little harder, whatever it is. Like I'm very, very driven by not wanting to leave anything undone. And um, you know, and and so like that that's a big driver for me. You know, so I I kind of can reverse engineer, like I know that I'm committed to this, you know, game of business for the rest of my life is what I is what I love doing. It's um really what what drives me. And for me, it's about the game. It's not about it's not about the money, it's not about the exit. Um, it's it's about the game. Like, and that that really drives me. And I think that's really what what drives Tom, the guy I was talking to before. And I think every entrepreneur that I talk to that is um does really big things is is driven by the game more than anything else. Um and you know, and so like when I ask you these questions, or anybody is everybody I talk to, it's like really, you know, what really drives you um and like what is it that you're really looking to get out of life? And so I think that, you know, as honest as you can be with yourself, you don't have to be with me, but as honest as you can be with yourself or anybody can be with themselves about what that is, um, and then take actions that are consistent with that, then you're gonna find you're gonna be happier and more successful. Um, and it's almost never related to a monetary outcome. Um, it's almost always related, it's it's it's something else.

SPEAKER_01

I don't think the monetary thing for me, you know, when it comes to an exit, it's not so much in terms of the monetary element of it. It's more of a case of the next game or like because game of being business, and I'm very agnostic when it comes to business, it's having the ability to have or play different games.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01

Because I also share the thirst and the enjoyment of the game itself, right? I don't think I would function without purpose, or I don't think I'd function suitably without having business in my life, love it. And therefore, when I look for that goal of an exit, it's just simply to put a goal out there. Otherwise, if I don't articulate in some way, then it's it's non-convincible to other people I'm just gonna be doing this forever and a day, right? So once we reach that marker, what will be the next goal? So it's more about being able to change games and really like bathe within it. You know, the bathe within the game of business.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah, no, I get it. But I guess what I'm saying is a little more nuanced in that you have to know like what gate, like what game you're really playing. I mean, it's not business, it's like like um like doing like some people just love doing deals, like doing deal, like doing a deal, like for them, it's about you know, the art, the art of the deal to steal Donald Trump's thing. But it's like but people are very some people are just very deal-driven. Um, you know, I'm um, you know, I'm I'm very much a um a collector of things. And like I for me, it's like, you know, um, you know, building um building stable cash flowing businesses that, you know, I that will stand the test of time and then kind of collecting, collecting that over time. You know, that's just how my mind is wired. Like I'm not I'm not the type that wants to sell things. Like I collect, I like to collect things. So it's just it's just my nature. Whereas like the previous person that was here was um, he very much likes to build and sell, and then build and sell. And like that, that is his thing, right? So what I mean is you kind of have to find like what it is that's actually driving you that you're actually interested in. Do you like actually enjoy operating the businesses? Do you actually enjoy you know doing the deals and selling it? Um, like you're like you're gonna have to attach, I think you're gonna find more success if you kind of figure out like what within that um you want, which is why like I say, well, what is your goal? Your goal is to sell. Well, then you reverse engineer, like what are the actions I got to take to do that, right? Um, but then if you really want to play the game long term, you kind of want to reverse engineer, well, what is it that I enjoy? Like, what is it that gets me excited? Like what is I'm like, what is it that I enjoy doing? Um, and if you can structure the rest of your life to allow you to do more of that, then you're gonna have more longevity. And I think that that's really what I'm trying to get at.

SPEAKER_00

Makes sense. Well, thank you for your time.

SPEAKER_03

Well, Daniel, thank you so much. I really, really appreciate it. The first Welsh podc um podcast guest. Um, it may that may that might stand for a while. I don't know.

SPEAKER_01

I think so. Maybe. Maybe I'll take it. I'll take it. Well, thank you so much. Thank you so much. Very nice.

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David Heacock

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