Church Trauma and Ankara Choir Robes

Why did so many immigrant kids grow up in church every Sunday… only to disappear the second they got adult freedom and their own car?

In this episode, Dr. Phebe Brako unpacks why your immigrant child may not want to go to church anymore, and spoiler alert: it’s deeper than “they’ve lost their way.” From spiritual burnout and church-as-cultural-performance to healing from shame, pressure, and three-hour services that started late anyway, we’re talking about all of it.

If you’ve ever hidden in the bathroom during altar call or developed a stress response to hearing “praise and worship will begin shortly”… this episode is for you.

Send your questions and topic ideas to consult@phebebrakolmft.com or slide in my DM's on Instagram @drphebebrako

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Transcript

SPEAKER_02 0:15

Welcome to Between Two Worlds with Dr. Phoebe, the podcast where immigrant parents and their grown kids come to laugh, we come to cry, cringe a little bit, and actually try to understand each other better. I'm your host, Dr. Phoebe Brackel. I'm a therapist, first gen daughter, or actually sandwich immigrant when you really think about it. I'm also a professional translator of what your mom really meant to tell you when she said that you were looking too Western. Each week, we're going to flip the script. One episode from the child's side, the other from the parents' side. You see what we're doing here? So everybody's going to take a little bit of something. You see what I'm saying? And so we're going to be breaking down everything from why a child doesn't want to go to church with you to why your parents still think that your job is just you pressing compute that, like our friends say back home. So whether you're the auntie, you're the rebel, you're the overachiever like myself, or the peacemaker, like some people that I know, this is your space. So pull up a chair. We are not just unpacking culture, we're rebuilding connection one episode at a time. So, today's question: why doesn't your immigrant child want to go to church with you? Now, this is a hot button topic, especially for those of us who are Christians. Is it spiritual rebellion? Is it a deep hatred for kaba and slits like we wear in Ghana or for Ankara suits or anything like that? Or maybe even a boo-boo, right? Because sometimes our parents want us to dress a little traditional. And also the three-hour church services. Or is it trauma, baby? So let's get into it. So picture this it's Sunday morning, right? It's around 7:15 a.m. And your mom comes banging on your door, just barging into your room with the Holy Spirit and a frying pan, because why not? Well, I mean, not literally, but you get it. You see what I'm trying to say, right? Or maybe, you know, she just comes in, she's sprinkling some holy water on you because she wants to, and also because your mom is just like that, right? And she's yelling and she's saying, Hey, you are not the only one who is tired, okay? If Jesus carried a cross, you can carry a Bible. You see what I'm saying? Ma'am, now church is starting at 10 a.m. And she has you up at the crack of dawn, right? It's sunrise, so that she could soak her beans for her wache for lunch, right? So wache is uh a beans and and rice meal that we we make in Ghana. And it's also kind of like the equivalent of uh red beans and rice or rice and peas for those who are in the Caribbean, right? And so she is trying to get that done while she's also trying to iron everybody else's clothes or trying to get the older siblings, somebody else, you know, start ironing clothes and everything because we're not going to go to church looking all crumpled. And at the same time, you know, she's reciting Psalm 23 or something like that. Now, don't get me started on the outfit debates because you know, you're getting messages like, eh, your dress is too short, right? Are you coming to seduce the pastor or the elders or something like that? Now, mind you, you probably went out last night, right? You went out to the clerk or something like that, and you did not hop into your bed until like 4 a.m. Because, you know, we're outside, or like we say in Ghana, oh, I'm bunting, you know what I'm saying? So our parents might be asking that question like, why do we not want to go to church? So let's break it down. Number one, spiritual burnout might be the reason why we don't want to go to church, right? A lot of us grew up in in churches that emphasized shame, performance. Um, they also emphasized perfection because it's church. And the pressure was pressuring, okay? So it wasn't really just like always about healing, it was also about appearances, right? Who is looking where, who is saying what, what are people going to say, right? There was also a lot of guilt and shaming, and that is guaranteed to burn somebody out. So no wonder your kid doesn't want to go to church with you because who wants to deal with all that? Now, the second thing is also cultural disconnect, right? When we go to church, especially for those of us who are living away from home and living overseas as immigrants, we're not just going to worship, we are attending a mini Nigerian, Ghanaian, Kenyan embassy. There's always politics, there's the aunties and the uncles. Everybody has something to say. There's judgment, who did well, who said well, whose child is going to Harvard and who is going to community college compared to everybody else, right? And in so many ways, church felt like school, right? But with microphones like this one. So for many of us, the connection unfortunately just was not there, right? Or as the kids say, it wasn't giving what it's supposed to give, right? And there are so many standards that we have in all these churches that are informed by our cultures, right? Because we're not, we're not going to be blank slates. We're not going to just, you know, exist in a void. We are informed by culture. So culture is informing all of the different things that we're doing at our church and especially the culture from back home. And for the second and third gen or sandwich immigrants like myself, we might not understand it as much or we might not be able to relate to it. The third thing here, which is another reason why, you know, the children might not want to go to church, is that there is no room for questioning, right? If you as a Christian or as a believer ask, why did God let this happen? Why did God let this bad thing happen? All you get is, ah, mm-mm. No, no, no, no. We don't question God. And that might sound really, really absurd, right? And it makes it hard for us to develop a personal relationship with faith when everything feels like it's dictated and everything is so rigid, and there isn't room for us to explore and figure out our own beliefs for ourselves, right? There's no room for you to ask the really important questions. And so, how are you even going to go out and talk about your faith? How are you going to be able to connect with people when you don't have room to ask things that need to be asked? Right. And the reality is that some of us, myself included, you know, we are going through a deconstruction of our faith and our religious beliefs. And when things like this happen and we come into spaces where our curiosity is met with judgment and shaming, why would we want to come back? Like what is the point of that? You see what I'm saying? So there isn't room for us to continue to unpack and deconstruct because the the reality of it also is that a lot of us are learning things about our religious beliefs. There's a lot more conversations around religion these days, especially. And we're trying to figure out why do we even believe the things that we believe? Why do we do the things that we do? We don't always create space for people to have those questions. And sometimes we don't have the answers, right? And then the other thing too is that therapy is changing a lot of us, right? Those of us who are going to therapy, it's actually doing the job. The therapists, like myself, we are doing our jobs, right? We're doing the things that we need to do. And so some of us have gone to therapy and we've realized hold up, wait a minute. The reason why I felt unseen growing up, it wasn't just the devil. It wasn't just the enemy, it wasn't just an attack. It was also generational trauma, right? There was a lot of unspoken pain that a lot of us are holding on to. And no, we don't want to shout about it or pray about it in tongues right now. And I mean, there's nothing wrong with speaking in tongues, right? Like that's absolutely cool. Um, absolutely needed. But like I said before, we have been asking questions, and sometimes the pastor is not answering. The deacons are not giving us the answers to the things that we are curious about, right? As we're trying to understand. Some of us are really trying so hard to understand why we do things a certain way, and it immediately gets shut down because for us, it's like questioning or having a question means that you're questioning your beliefs, or you're questioning God, or you're challenging God, and it's nothing like that, right? And so those of us who are in therapy, it's really helped us to where we are trying to see that we don't need to engage with people who also don't want to engage with us, right? We're setting boundaries, we're, we're, we're having difficult conversations, we're not afraid to say some of the things that we've been saying in our group chats, right? So these are four reasons that I can think of, and maybe you can think of a few more. You can put them in in the comments if you're watching this, or you could actually like leave a you know a comment on whatever podcast your um podcast system or platform you're listening to this on. And let's get into the conversation of some of the the reasons, right? So when it comes to bridging the gap, because that's what I am here to do, right? That is the point of you know this conversation building and being between two worlds, right? As immigrants who are from different places, but also trying to like establish our homes, establish ourselves. And so this is the point in the podcast where I'm going to be sharing something for you to think about or to have a conversation with your children, with your kids, or with your parents about. Okay. So this week's Bridge the Gap tip is talk about spirituality outside of the church walls, right? Go for a walk, cook together, and ask your parents what their faith meant to them when they were your age. What was it like for them? Do they go to church? Do they ask questions? Were they as curious as you are, right? And for you as parents, go ahead and ask your children what spirituality looks like for them, right? What does it like, what does it look like when they even look at you as their parent and talk through the faith, talk through whatever faith you you have, right? And then, you know, share what spirituality looks like for you, for your family, what your hopes are, what your hopes were, maybe even how they've changed, right? Maybe you had this idea that you were gonna go to church every single Sunday, and then you realize, yo, I gotta pick up a shift on Sundays, and it's the same time as church. Does that mean that I'm a heathen, right? So the reality of it is that you don't have to win this conversation. You just need to have it, you just need to explore it because there's so much to be said, right? So this isn't just about like, you know, going back to church or establishing faith in that way, but really we want to return to each other. We want to be back in community, we want to bridge the gap, right? When we're living between two worlds, we want to find where that center is and where we can connect. Now, for this episode, I knew we couldn't just hear from the children. We needed representation from the other side. The people who woke us up at sunrise ironed our church clothes and somehow expected us to be fully joyful for a three-hour service. So I invited someone who has personally escorted me to church more Sundays than I can count. The woman who believes that prayer is a solution to most problems and that sitting in the front row continues to build character, right? My mom, Mama C C. Uh, Mom, welcome to the podcast.

SPEAKER_03 12:17

Thank you very much. All right, sweet daughter.

SPEAKER_02 12:22

Sweet daughter. So, mom, before we start, okay, do you promise to be honest with our listeners today? You promise? Yes. Yeah. Pinky swear. Okay. So I I'm going to start off with a question about faith, right? And when you think about faith, what did your faith mean to you when you were my age? When you're about in your in your 30s, young.

SPEAKER_03 12:51

Thank you very much. Um I'm a Christian and um I attend church every Sunday from my childhood and uh up to your age and now I do go to church happily to serve my living God.

SPEAKER_01 13:25

Amen.

SPEAKER_03 13:27

And um I believe in God that all things are possible and uh I have a strong faith in him that in all things he would not forsake me because I have trusted in him for a long time. For a long time. And um when I go to church I was uh a choir register and uh I look after uh children, I go to the uh children's service.

SPEAKER_02 14:15

Okay, so so hold on, pause there, right? So for people who are listening to also realize that I have that history too, right? Where I've gone to church, I I did Sunday school, I sang um in the choir, and so you know, as you're saying this, I'm just realizing, oh yeah, we have very similar church experiences there.

SPEAKER_03 14:33

Yeah. And I serve in the church, I joined uh at your age, like your age now, I joined the women's ministry. Yeah, and I did a lot of work in the church because I have faith that uh with all doing all these things, God uh will help me and uh open doors for me. Yeah, yeah. Okay, okay. Yes.

SPEAKER_02 15:07

So do you have a do you have a question for me?

SPEAKER_01 15:10

Is there something that you want to ask me? Um not now. Not now. Yeah, okay. Not now.

SPEAKER_02 15:15

So, you know, when when I look at you, right, through the lens of faith, what I see is someone who has really solid beliefs, right? Someone who trusts God, someone whose faith matters a lot to them, right? And and that's how you you raised us, right? So even though sometimes we didn't feel like going to church, sometimes we're tired, there was still that expectation that you continue to participate. And I think that that's one of the things that you've handed to us. But I think what made it special was because we saw what you were doing in the church. Yeah, right. We saw you being a part of the medical team when we were at the Holy Ghost Temple. So we saw all of those the the things that you were you were growing through, also, right? Because I remember at some point you wanted to do certain things at church and you know you weren't allowed to do those things, right? And we saw, yeah, we saw all those things. Yeah, yeah. So I think when I look at you through the lens of faith, I see someone who is resilient, someone who makes sacrifices, and also someone who takes what they're doing seriously, right? Yeah. So what would you say that spirituality looks like for us now, right? Now that we're living here in America.

SPEAKER_03 16:27

Uh what I would say is uh way back home we were so committed to the church uh activities and everything, so many things. But here is different from Ghana, where we came from. Because when you go to church, uh you can the songs that uh come are powerful and uh we feel happy and we'll be dancing to the tune of the music. Uh huh. But here the uh church uh service is so different, yeah. It's so different. Um the songs uh you can't dance with it, it's so slow, yeah, and the words is different. So we don't have uh the zeal to go to church and we can see that our spirit spiritual motivation is going down. Yeah, it's going down. Yeah, yeah. We can't praise God like before, right?

SPEAKER_02 17:48

Yeah, right, because we're used to dancing, we're used to you know, jumping up and down, like having a certain level of joy, and a lot of times in some of the churches that we've been in, that's not really the case. Yeah, right.

SPEAKER_03 18:01

There have been churches that we've been in where that was that was cool, that was possible, and at the same time, all of the songs are in English, English, right, and the preaching, yes, yes, the um the donation or the the accents, accents, uh the accents uh you can't follow, especially me, I can't follow. Yeah, so when I come back home, I have to go online and watch the Holy Ghost Temple, right? Yeah, that's I C G C Holy Ghost Temple service. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 18:38

And then I mean that's something that I think I I've always respected you for because every Sunday, you know, you're always watching on YouTube. Yeah. And I know that that is one way in which you feel connected. That's one of the ways in which you feel like, you know, there's community, you feel like you're kind of back home a little bit. And I know that also for for parents who have had that experience and then coming here and having their children who are used to church service a certain way, yeah. They might go home or they might be in an African church and the kids are like, ah, why are we here for three hours, four hours, right? Because here church services are usually an hour, yeah. Yeah, an hour and a half. Yeah, yeah. So yeah, so mom, before we we we end every episode, um I want to ask you one question, and we'll we'll come back to every time you know you join me, I'll come back to that question. And if you could say one thing to immigrant parents um who are trying to better understand their children, especially when it comes to spirituality, religion, church, that sort of thing, what would you tell them?

SPEAKER_03 19:48

Well, I will tell the immigrant parents that uh if they uh uh encounter these problems uh about their children, they have to be patient. First, they have to pray to God for direction and talk to the children that uh we've come far to this place and uh we may not get the church that we want to attend. So they have to take it easy. Yes, yeah, that is so true. That is so true.

SPEAKER_01 20:26

Thanks for that answer. All right, give me boom. Thank you. Give me boom boom all right, boom, all right. Yeah, thank you. You're welcome.

SPEAKER_02 20:34

So if you are healing from church hurt or your child has decided to leave youth group and and maybe join something like a sound bath and you're freaking out about it, you're definitely not alone, I promise. This generation is redefining faith, right? It's not necessarily the idea of abandoning it, it's more about reclaiming it, and it just might not look the same like it did in the 90s or in the 80s or the 70s, right? And so if you loved this conversation, make sure that you leave a review or a comment, share it with your mom, or better yet, you know, listen with her, right? I know that's brave. I absolutely get it. So while you're in the kitchen cooking your your jalof and frying your plantain, you can put it on on the speaker and you know, just listen to it, right? So next week we're going to be flipping the script, right? We're going to talk about therapy in an episode called I'm Not Ungrateful, I'm Just In Therapy, right? So I hope that you will join us again for this conversation. I want to hear from you, okay? So if you also have any topics that you would like for me to talk about, go on and you know, slide in my DMs on Instagram at Dr. Phoebe Brackle. Phoebe without an O, because my parents decided to keep the O for the last part of my name. So it's Phoebe P H E B E Brackel. All right, so I'm Dr. Phoebe, and we're here. We're bridging the gap, one awkward family conversation over dinner, or maybe not at a time. Thank you so much for listening.