Therapy is Not a Betrayal

You said you’re going to therapy… and suddenly your parents are acting like you’ve filed a complaint against the entire family.

In this episode, Dr. Phebe Brako answers the question so many immigrant children wrestle with: “Am I ungrateful for going to therapy?”

We’re unpacking guilt, loyalty, generational survival, and why choosing healing can feel like betrayal — even when it’s not. This one is honest, a little uncomfortable, and very necessary.

If you’ve ever heard “Why are you telling strangers our business?”… go ahead and press play.

Send your questions and topic ideas to consult@phebebrakolmft.com or slide in my DM's on Instagram @drphebebrako

Remember we can only grow our audience with your support. Please share with your community!

Transcript

SPEAKER_01 0:15

It's a between two worlds with Dr. Phoebe. The podcast where we say things that would make your mother gasp. But with love and clinical insight. Because you know what? Let's be honest. We are living between two worlds. And sometimes the bridge has some potholes in it. Or the bridge just it is just not solid, right? It could use a little bit of work. I am your host, Dr. Phoebe Brackle. I'm a therapist. I'm an immigrant daughter. I call myself a sandwich immigrant because I'm living right there in the middle. And I'm also a proud breaker of generational trauma and generational silence. So each week we're going to flip the script, one episode from the child's side, and also one episode from the parent side, where we're breaking down everything from why your child doesn't want to go to church with you to why your parents still think that your tech job is just you pressing computer. Or if you're kind of like me, you know, why are you a therapist and not a doctor? You see what I'm saying? A medical doctor, I should say. So whether you're an auntie, you're the rebel, the overachiever, or the peacemaker, this is your space. So pull up a chair. We're not just unpacking culture, we're rebuilding connection one episode at a time. So today's question is one that I hear a lot. I hear it in sessions, in my DMs, and whispered behind plantain-stained kitchen doors. Who loves plantain? I love plantain. Am I ungrateful for going to therapy? So let's talk about what it really means when you sit on that therapy couch and your mom sees it as a betrayal of everything that she did for you. Because let's be honest, when it comes to guilting, our moms can be really, really good at that. So let me take you back, right? So the first time I told my mom that I was seeing a therapist, right? She she paused and she blinked and she was like, Hold up, but I listen to you all the time. You know, why do you need to pay someone to talk to you? You know, and here is the kicker. She also asked if my therapist was Christian. Seriously. And um, you know, I used to tell her that I was going to a doctor's appointment, right? Um, she had just come to the US and, you know, she would just kind of follow me along and follow around and whatever, just to keep me company because she's retired. You know, what is she gonna do? Sit around the house and watch CNN or watch PCFM news on YouTube or whatever, you know. My mom has become a YouTube pro, okay? She knows all of the channels and all the things and all the bloggers. When my mom started saying the word blogger, I was like, hold on, wait a minute, who are you? Like, what do you know about bloggers? Right, but yeah, she spends a lot of time on YouTube. So anyway, so I I would have her follow me around, and so she would go with me to these doctors' appointments, right? And I'd have her sit in the waiting room a couple times. And listen, here's the thing, you know, she she wasn't she wasn't wrong, right? My mom has definitely been there, she's always there, she's always listened and all of the things, right? Right after telling me that I need to go and drink some ginger tea and pray, right? And make sure I added some tongues, because you know, Holy Spirit. So one time, um, when I mentioned the whole therapy thing, she was like, you know, you're seeing what you're telling strangers about me, like, you know, wow, how dare you go out and put our business out in the street? I mean, if guilt tripping were an Olympic sport, our mothers would sweep, okay? So before I tell you the rest of that story, let's get into the layers here. The first thing is that there is the concept of survival versus healing. Our parents survived a lot. If you've ever had the chance to talk to your parents about the things that they went through, we have these running jokes about how our parents talk about going to, you know, going to school bare bare feet and having to walk several miles with a bucket of water on their heads just to go and fetch water. I did that actually. So it's not that far behind. I'm just saying, right? I used to have a nice little uh, what's it called, bucket that would go on my head and because we didn't have water where I lived, and um oh, the memories, the memory. So anyway, so you know, our parents, they survived, right? So that we could also heal. They didn't always have the luxury of of therapy or mental health services. A lot of our parents grew up in places where you just went to the elders, you went to the, you know, as we say in my native language of Shi or Khan, the Ibushua Penin, you know, you went to the the aunties, you went to the uncles, and then you talked to your imam or somebody like that, right? And so they didn't necessarily have those, the luxury that we have today of, you know, mental health services, or if they were living overseas, they were not necessarily aware of some of these services because they were certainly focused on the mission, which was make the money, take care of the children, go home, make sure that everything's taken care of, send money home, make sure the people back home are taken care of and things like that. So as for as for us as the the second generation or the third generation and things like that, it doesn't mean that we're spitting in their faces for going, right? You're not on ungrateful for going to therapy and talking to quote unquote strangers about the family business or the things that have been going on in your life and your past and your traumas and how those things are infecting are affecting you or impacting you today. The the reality of it is that for many of us, we are just refusing to pass down those things that our parents never had the chance to unpack, those things that they may have not had the chance to heal, those things that they refused to talk about, right? Because not everyone is going to be able to go through the process of healing without actually processing it, right? And so there is this also second factor here of our parents saying, you know, I gave you everything, right? And there's the guilt that comes with that. So many immigrant parents, when they hear therapy, they they think, oh, so you're telling me that I failed as a parent, right? Like I didn't raise you properly, or I didn't do what I was supposed to do, or you know, like I didn't I didn't do enough. Right. It it feels like a huge betrayal. And especially for those of our parents who are very much about the outside and the outside looking in, like, what will people say? I actually think there's a there's a book called Um But What Will People Say, and it's by a therapist. I think she's in Canada. I'll add it to the notes when I remember it. So um the that's the the thing. When when we go to therapy, it doesn't mean that you know we're indicting our parents or or saying that they're they're horrible or something like that. It's maintenance, right? It's like taking your car to the shop, right? You're not necessarily blaming Honda or Toyota, it's a part of it, right? You go to the gas station, you put gas in your car, and and you're you're taking care of your car. And just as you're taking care of your car, you're also taking care of yourself, right? So us going to therapy is not trying to say that our parents did a horrible job by us. And even if they did, they also they did what they knew how to do, right? The other thing also here is that loyalty struggle. Now, this is a big one, right? Because for a lot of us, therapy or going to therapy feels like disloyalty. You're sitting on the couch and you're saying things that you were never ever taught to speak of, right? You're saying things like my childhood wasn't emotionally safe, you're saying things like I never learned how to rest without guilt. You're also saying things like I love my family, but they hurt me. Or you're saying things like I wish I could count on my dad, or I wish I could depend on my siblings. These are truths, right? They're not betrayals, and many times people also lose sight of the fact that when you go to therapy, you are not only healing yourself, you're healing the generations that are also coming after you. And even in that, one of the things that I always tell my um my clients, especially those who are, you know, fellow immigrants and we have you know overlapping circles or communities because they're immigrants, I work primarily with people of the global majority, BIPOC folks or immigrants. And I always say everything that you say in here to me is safe. I'm not gonna go out and talk to anybody. So even if you're coming to me as a therapist and you're telling me I love my family, but they really, really hurt me, I'm not gonna go and see your aunt. I'm not gonna go see your mom at, you know, somebody's outdooring or somebody's graduation party and be like, uh-huh, Auntie, you are not going to believe your daughter said you heard her. What what were you doing, you know, talking about those things from the past, right? I'm absolutely not going to do that. But I also know that because a lot of us have had those kinds of betrayals and experiences in in the community, we think that going to therapy and going to talk about somebody in those sessions is going to end up that way. And that is not the case. That is absolutely not the case. I tell people that my license as a therapist is way more important than some gossip or some hot tea. I mean, you know, sometimes the tea is bubbling, and you know, we want to spill a little bit here and there, but not when it comes to the work that I do, not when it comes to people's mental health, not when it comes to people's trauma, right? So at this point, it's time for our bridge the gap tip. So here is your bridge the gap tip of the week. I would like you to tell your parents what therapy is giving you, not what they as parents didn't. So for example, instead of saying something like, You messed me up, so I had to go to therapy, right? You can say something like, Therapy is helping me be more patient. And I think that you would be, you know, really proud of me, right? Or you're saying something like, I want to help, I want to be able to help around the house and not be as annoyed all the time, or I want to be able to handle stress better than I used to, and therapy helps. So let's go back to my initial story of taking my mom to my doctor's appointments, right? I'll give a personal example. So after my mom had accompanied me for a while in a number of um appointments, because I was going weekly, right? So after she, you know, had been accompanying me, there was one time where my mom something happened at home, right? And it was something that wasn't new and it would usually upset me. But my mom noticed, yo, you're not upset. What's what's going on here? Where's my daughter? Right. And I remember telling my mom, well, it's because of therapy. She's like, You go to therapy, you know. I mean, you're telling this stranger about our business. And by the stranger, she had seen my therapist before, right? But I didn't introduce her as my therapist. And so I said, Yes, mom, yeah, that is that is where I've been going. I've been seeing a therapist, and I've been seeing at that point, I was probably seeing a therapist for four, four years, maybe four or five years. And I said, you know, that is where I learned how to manage my emotions, and that is where I've been processing my trauma and talking about the things that happened in my childhood and in my teen years and how it's affecting me today as an adult and also as a therapist, too, because at that time I was working with kids um and and families, right? So I let her know how it was actually helping. And the beautiful thing was that she saw the change in me. She saw the things that were different in me. She saw that I wasn't the Phoebe that I used to be. Now, I mean, listen, I'm not perfect, okay? Every now and then, you know, I might the old Phoebe might creep in a little bit, you know. Every now and then I might shut down, might cuss somebody out, cuz why not? Don't mess with me. Um, but uh I think for me, the the ultimate win was years later when my mom looked me in the eyes and she was like, Phoebe, I need to talk to a therapist. Who when I tell you, like I almost cried, but you know, strong African women, we don't cry. No, I'm just kidding, we do cry. Um, but it was it was such a beautiful moment, and it was a moment that helped me really think about even having this conversation and having this podcast episode and and talking about it because a lot of us are going to therapy, but we're not telling people. And it's fine, there's nothing wrong with that. It's it's your private business and everything, but we're also not telling people because we're afraid, we're not telling people because we have a lot of shame and we are worried again, like I was saying, what will people say, right? Or what is our family going to think about this? What is our family going to think about the things that you know we're talking about or going through, right? And at the end of the day, therapy is not rejection, okay? It is a tool to protect those things that our parents have worked so hard to build, which is us, right? We are their legacy. And so I hope that in having this conversation and even with me sharing myself and sharing my story, that it will give you some perspective about how things could be beneficial, you know. And family therapy is also an option. Dare I say, I'm a licensed marriage and family therapist, so I am trained in family therapy, and so I know that the family is a system, and whenever there is a change that happens with one person in there in that system, it can it has a potential to shift the entire system. But we also want the rest of the family to be there so we can all work together, right? And who knows, like sometimes you might even get a little discount. So if you're trying to convince your your your parent to uh go to therapy with you, maybe you can throw in a little little discount there. Tell them they might get a discount or something. So um but here, you know, all jokes aside, one of the greatest forms of of gratitude really is healing enough to where you're not repeating that cycle, right? So that you're not doing the same old, same old. You're not doing the the harm that your family did. You're not necessarily doing those things that have continued to repeat or bring up some of those cycles, right? Because if we if we continue to do that, we we have there there's a whole generation that is going to be after us that is waiting right for our healing. And so if we if we don't do this work, if we don't do the healing, if we don't work through the different things, if we don't learn how to talk to each other, because guess what? Therapy is one of those places where you can learn how to talk to people. I will say, as somebody who is a longtime therapy goer, um, I don't see myself stopping because one, the work that I do as a therapist, it's it's hard. It's really hard. And so I need my own space to to talk about some of the things that are going on and to work through my own stuff so it doesn't show up. But one of the beautiful things is also for those of us who are sandwich immigrants, as you're navigating life with your parents and you're also navigating life with your kids, is that you learn how to also be a parent. And that is literally a possible goal for you as you go to therapy. I want to learn how to parent, right? I want to learn how to be there for my kids. I want to learn how to show up. And that's one of the things that I I left therapy with, right? I left some of my sessions, learning how to talk to my kids and learning how to be a mom, right? Allowing myself to to even be playful, right? Because I was so bogged down on this idea of adulthood and being a mom and being perfect. And in working with my therapist over the years, I just realized, Phoebe, you have permission to play. You have permission to be yourself, you have permission to get on the floor and roll around with your boys, you have permission to, I don't know, jump up and down in the bed and have pillow fights if you want to. You get to sit around and build Lego. Um even last night I remember being on the floor and putting together orders because you know, I finally put out that I wrote this children's book and it highlights my boys. And um, you know, my boys are really excited about us shipping the books to people and everything, and they're asking questions, okay, so where's this order going and all that? And I'm sitting on the floor with them, right? And we're putting the orders together and putting them to work. And even though it's a task, there is this bonding there where we're able to connect. And I know that I would not have been able to do that if I hadn't done some of the work that I've done in therapy, right? Um, and it was also beautiful for my mom to see that as she's she's um she's walking by, she's seeing, you know, me on the floor with the kids, and you know, we're doing all these things in the past. I would have been so focused on let's just get this task done because perfectionism, I mean, what can I say, right? So, so intense with the task and wanting to just get it done, not wanting to share or anything like that. And I've been thinking back to the moment as I'm talking about it, and I'm I'm I'm showing my my younger son how to put you know the books in an envelope and things like that. And it was just so beautiful. Which by the way, if you are interested, you can get the book on my website at www.phbbrackle lmft.com. Okay. Don't forget, it's over there. You can get a copy for yourself. Listen, at the end of the day, you're not ungrateful. I want to say that again. You are not ungrateful for wanting to heal. You're not ungrateful for wanting to be different, you're not ungrateful for wanting to do something that is opposite of what you may have been raised to do. You're the first in your family to have the words, the the time, the all of the different things. And you know, being the first is also not easy, right? Because you have to find this thing called courage. And so you're the first to find the courage to go inward. And if that makes you the soft one or the western one or the too emotional one, then you know what? So be it, right? So for this episode, I have to bring in someone from the generation that still finds therapy a little confusing. You know, the the generation that believes that if you're sad, you should just drink some tea, pray about it, and you know, just keep it moving. So today I invited the woman who raised me, supported me, and occasionally wonders why I would pay someone to listen to my feelings. My mom, mama, welcome to the podcast. Thank you. Okay. So I have a few questions for you here that I'm hoping that we can talk about. And the first thing that I am curious about, and I'm hoping that you can talk to our listeners about is what was it like for you hearing that I was going to therapy?

SPEAKER_00 20:43

The first time I had you saying, Mom, I'm going to see my therapist. I was uh wondering why you being a therapist and um going to see another therapist for what?

SPEAKER_01 21:05

Well, because therapists also need therapy for one.

SPEAKER_00 21:11

I didn't understand. Yeah. And I was thinking about it. That was going on with you, that uh you need a therapist because at my place in Ghana, we didn't know any or I didn't hear a word therapist or therapy, somebody is going to do that. So I was surprised. I didn't know what they do there. Yeah. And I know if uh you have a problem, you talk to your mother, your father, yeah, or your best auntie, you confide in him or her. You tell the person your problem or what you are going through. But I didn't know they have a special people called therapists. Right. Yes. I didn't know. Yeah. You told me. Right. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 22:21

And I know that we've had conversations about, you know, why I was going to therapy and, you know, the things that I was learning and how in some ways, you know, in many ways, it was making me better. I was coping with things a lot better. And I I still know that it was hard for you sometimes because maybe you felt like you weren't listening enough or you weren't doing something well enough to where I would go and talk to somebody else instead of you.

SPEAKER_00 22:49

Yes. I thought you needed somebody, somebody to talk to. Because maybe I can't um do more or better than the therapist. Yes. And um at times I can see you being so quiet, moody. I didn't know. I've been asking you why. Are you okay? You will tell me you are okay. Right. Yeah. I saw that since you started going to see the therapist, some things you have changed. Right. Yeah, you have changed a lot. And I know it's good that uh you went to see the therapist. Right. Yeah, right.

SPEAKER_01 23:42

And I think one of the memorable moments for me is when whenever, and it's happened a couple of times, so whenever I'm having a problem or you know, relationship issues, things like that, and you ask me, Well, have you talked to your therapist about? What else is your therapist? Yeah, I remember. So, so I remember. Yeah, and so what what what do you think about therapy now? It sounds like you're on board with therapy and you see how it's helping people.

SPEAKER_00 24:06

Yeah, me myself, I I started, yes, and I saw some changes, you know, because um my therapist confine in me that whatever I'm going to tell her, she is not going to tell anybody, right? Even my daughter.

SPEAKER_01 24:27

That confidentiality is very, very important. It's a huge part of our profession.

SPEAKER_00 24:30

Yeah, yeah. Yeah. So I now realize that um the therapy is very good. It's very good. Yeah. Not that um you are mad, excuse me to say you are mad and uh you are going to waste your money. Yes, and uh somebody will tell you that there is no need of going to see the therapist. Right. But I now know that uh it's very good, it's helpful. Yeah, yeah, it's very, very helpful.

SPEAKER_01 25:07

And and we we have to prioritize our mental health, right? Because just as we're going to the doctor, we're going to the nurse, you know, we're we're taking care of all these other parts of our health, we have to take care of our mental health too. Yeah. Right. So what what do you want other your fellow African parents? It's kind of funny to say fellow African parents. I'm an African parent too, right? But what do you want fellow African parents to know about therapy?

SPEAKER_00 25:35

I want every African mother or father to attend a therapy because it's good. It's good. You know, it helps. It helps a lot. If you go to see a therapist, doesn't mean you are not serious in your life or you are crazy. Or people will think, why do you go and see a therapist? Right. You are just wasting your time and your money. And your money costs money. Yeah. In fact, they charge. They charge a lot.

SPEAKER_01 26:14

Well, they have we have to charge because we have to charge because we some of us have student loans, right? And we have to be paid for the work that we're done.

SPEAKER_00 26:24

But they have to reduce it. So people can afford to go.

SPEAKER_01 26:31

You're right. There's there's a lot of times where cost gets in the way of people going. And there's also a lot of different resources for people to get therapy for free. So, for example, if you are not just for free, but like for at reduced rates. So if you are working, if you're fully employed, sometimes in part-time, you will be able to get employee assistance programs where people can get uh services through a licensed therapist, maybe about three or five sessions. And they can get it for free, right? So there's different ways to get around that, but I do hear you, right?

SPEAKER_00 27:03

Yeah, we could we could uh reduce it a little bit, right? But I think you have to uh advise people about that, yeah. So everybody can attend. Yeah. Yeah, it it's helpful.

SPEAKER_01 27:15

You're right. It is definitely something that I talk about. Yeah, I talk about a lot more. And I think it's nice for, as you're saying, just to have somebody to listen to you, somebody who can understand you, somebody who can say, hey, the things that you're experiencing are are normal. When you're a parent to a teenager, this is what you can expect. Yeah, this is what you can um expect as the parent of an adult who does not want to listen, right? So so I hear what you're saying. I do, I do. So I appreciate you saying that. And also all of you for allowing yourself to go to therapy.

SPEAKER_00 27:45

Oh, yeah, thank you very much. You advised me to go, yeah, yeah, yeah. Because at some point, at some point I can't that I can I can't help. Yeah, I know, you know, I know, but um, it's good, yeah, it's good just for the short time I attended, yeah. Yeah, I just uh you know focus on my life, yeah, yeah, and everything is moving off.

SPEAKER_01 28:09

Well, okay, I am proud of you.

SPEAKER_00 28:11

Thank you. I'm proud of you too.

SPEAKER_01 28:14

Oh in our next episode, we're going to flip the script again with a little something. I'll keep it a little secret. So I won't tell you what it is this time. So if you have enjoyed the conversation, be sure to share with somebody who needs to hear this conversation. Leave us a comment on YouTube, write us a review on whatever podcast um platform you're listening to this on. Or you know what? You have my permission to slide into my DM. Okay, permission is granted. If you have a topic that you think really needs to be on the on the podcast, we can talk about it. So you can go find me on Instagram at Dr. Phoebe Brackel. Dr. P H E B E B R A K O. There's no O in there with the Phoebe, okay? Because my parents wanted to put the the O at the back of the last name. Okay, so it's Dr. Phoebe Brackel. So I hope that I can hear from you all. And also if you have any feedback on some of the things that we're talking about, I am certainly open and I'd love to hear from you. So I'm Dr. Phoebe, and this is Between Two Worlds with Dr. Phoebe, where healing is multi-generational, it's multilingual, and sometimes it is just plain messy. I'll catch you next time.