Doctor, Engineer...or Disappointment?

Every immigrant child knows the list: doctor, engineer… maybe lawyer if your parents were feeling flexible.

So what happens when your dreams don’t match the plan?

In this episode, Dr. Phebe Brako breaks down the tension between passion and practicality, identity and expectation, and why choosing your own path can feel like risking your parents’ approval.

If you’ve ever had to justify your career like it was a business pitch… this episode is for you.

Send your questions and topic ideas to consult@phebebrakolmft.com or slide in my DM's on Instagram @drphebebrako

Remember we can only grow our audience with your support. Please share with your community!

Transcript

SPEAKER_01 0:15

Welcome back to Between Two Worlds with Dr. Phoebe, the podcast where we unpack cultural expectations without hopefully, hopefully, not getting disowned like some of us were afraid we're going to be. I am Dr. Phoebe Brackel. I'm a therapist, a sandwich immigrant daughter, and someone who narrowly, narrowly escaped becoming, you know, a gynecologist. So, today's episode is from the child's perspective, and we're calling it, No, I don't want to be a doctor or engineer. Alright, so this is why I invite you to take a deep breath. Okay, take a deep breath with me. Now, if you felt your mother's spirit twitch, just just stay with me here, okay? Just stay with me. So every immigrant child knows this script, right? You're in elementary school. Your teacher asked, Hey, what do you want to be when you grow up? You say, I want to be an artist. You go home and you tell your parents. They blink. Artist? You mean you mean architect? And you say no. Oh, you mean an art teacher? And they say you say no. And then your parents are looking at you like So you want to suffer. You want to live in poverty. You want to you just want to suffer, right? And let's not forget career day for those of us who had career days at school, right? You know, the the white kids, for example, you know, astronaut, marine biologist, youtuber. I have a kid who wants to be a YouTuber. And you also have immigrant kids who come in and they're like cardiothoracic surgeon or shame, right? So there we we have these like running jokes within the immigrant community that you're either a doctor, a lawyer, an architect, or you're a failure, right? And there was no brochure for creative fulfillment because it was either doctor, engineer, or disappointment. And then, you know, there's people like me who ended up being therapists. If you've listened to some of my previous um podcast episodes, I had a previous podcast called Image Stories of Phoebe, and I think I talked about this, but I've also talked about it on other like platforms, and and so it's this like running story that I just won't, yeah, I just won't, I won't forget and I won't stop talking about because it's so important. And so when I was when I came to college in the US, I came with the idea that I was going to be pre-med, right? I was going to go to medical school and become a gynecologist. We can talk about that story later, why I wanted to be a gynecologist. I had a lot of different experiences and whatever. So um I remember just thinking to myself, oh, you know, this is going to, you know, it's going to help the family and it's gonna look good. My parents are gonna look good. I'm going to be the family doctor. Well, I ended up being the doctor, it's just a different kind of doctor this time, and I don't I don't write scripts and I don't I don't cut into people and you know. So when I came to college, I came as a like I said, pre-med. I wanted to to go to medical school. I had this whole plan. And at the same time, in the back of my mind, I had this desire to also be someone that people could talk to, a therapist. I actually wanted to be a sex therapist initially. Again, another story for another day. And so I remember going to, you know, I I went to college in North Carolina. I went to Salem College and was in Salem, North Carolina, and I also started taking psychology classes because I had that double thing in my head, but I hadn't said anything to my parents because my parents were paying for me to go to college and we had a plan. So I remember going to my my advisor and saying, hey, it's time for me to declare my major. I would like to declare a bio major. And my advisor looked at me and was like, No, you're not. I said, What do you mean? No, no, he said, Phoebe, you're excelling in your psychology classes and you suck at your biology classes. Like you're you're not doing well. I wasn't failing, you know. I wasn't, I wasn't failing, failing, but I just wasn't making the A's. I think at some point I had like a C in elective, one of my like, what was it? Calculus? I can't even remember what class it was. I think I made it to calculus two or three, and I said, you know what, screw this. This is not for me. So I remember um we had a conversation, and I remembered saying to him, I'm terrified. Like if I go and tell and I tell my parents that I'm going to be a psych major, my father's going to disown me. Like I'm going to be a disappointment because, like I said, you're either a doctor, engineer, architect, lawyer, or bust. And so I remember talking to him and he was like, Well, I'm not going to sign this form where you're declaring a bio major. I said, Well, I could do double major. He said, No, you're not. And it was one of the scariest moments of my life because I remember my room phone, or maybe my cell phone. I had a little razor back in the day. You know, I thought I was like the coolest thing ever. And my father called. And, you know, of course, he's asking about school and things like that. And I remember saying, Oh, well, I am declaring my major. He said, Okay, biology, right? I said, no, psychology. He said, psychology, I said, psychology. He said, for what? I said, well, I want to be a therapist. And he said, ah. I took you to America to go and become a doctor, and you're going to be a what? A psychologist? I said, no, not a psychologist, a therapist. And I remember my heart was in my butt, okay? Like not at the pit of my stomach. It was in my butt because I knew for sure that is the moment when my father says, You are disowned. I'm done with you. Thankfully, that's not what happened. Even though it felt like it, because my father was just not, he was like, Are you going to make money with that? Right? Because for us as immigrants, that's kind of the gauge, right? Is this going to make us some money? And how is this going to look in the family? And also bragging rights. Hello? And so I remember him saying, This is a waste of money. But he didn't discourage me. I knew he wasn't excited. My mom wasn't keen on it either. But fast forward after college, went to grad school, got my master's in marriage and family therapy, and then I got a job. And so I think that was when finally my parents it maybe legitimized my my job in some ways, but it was still a little shaky, right? So that's my little story about that. And you know, long story short, I ended up getting my doctorate in counselor education and supervision. And now I think the level of disappointment in me has shifted. So I think my parents are proud of me. No, I don't think. I know that they're I know that they're proud of me, even though I did not, I did not go the medical school route. I didn't go the psychology, sorry, the gynecology route or whatever. But anyway, we'll talk about that some more. And um there there's there's a few things that parents, you know, are communicating to us when when they put this kind of pressure on us. So let's decode it. So it's about security, right? And and not necessarily not just status. So when immigrant parents are pushing medicine or engineering, it's not just about bragging rights. Yes, it's nice to say, oh, look at my daughter, Dr. Phoebe. You know, it's nice, right? Let's let's not lie, it's nice, right? But at the same time, it's also about stability. Because for a lot of our parents, they left countries where degrees were unstable, economies were fragile, and also safety, safety nets did not necessarily exist. That flexibility just was not there. So to them, being a doctor means being recession proof, um, respectable, safe, also, right? Um, these are the those are the kinds of careers that no matter what happens, you're going to be you're gonna be okay, quote unquote. Now, I will say the world these days has shown us that that ain't it. It just ain't. But when you say that you want to be a writer, a therapist, entrepreneur, or content creator, parents are hearing, uh, I'm choosing financial chaos, right? Because there isn't an understanding of what some of these things mean. I don't even know that I've ever admitted to my parents that I'm an entrepreneur. Right? Oh, well, hey, the secret's out, I guess. Now they know. Mom, dad, you know, I'm an entrepreneur, also, right? Um, but in their minds, they're probably thinking, like, I choose financial chaos because there is a lack of predictability, there's a level of um risk that is required for some of these careers and the freelancing and things like that that are more common these days. Back in the day, it wasn't as common, right? The other thing, too, is that this is their trauma talking. So many parents, many immigrant parents grew up where they were watching people struggle because there weren't options. The options that we have today did not exist back then, right? And so when you deviate from that quote unquote safe path of sitting in the office, having a job that you're at for 30-something years. My mom worked at this, she worked for like 30, 33 years, right? Same job. And you know, that safe path for our parents, it triggers a lot of fear, right? What do you mean you're you're quitting your your stable job to to to go and open your own business? To do what? Right? It's not uh it just triggers a lot of fear, right? It's not anger, it's fear. And a lot of our parents are afraid that we're going to struggle like they did, right? Because they fear that their sacrifice is not going to translate into security. But here, here is the tension, right? You were raised here, right? You second gen, third gen sandwich, you were raised right outside of your home country, you were raised in the US, your opportunities are different, right? Or you're raised in the UK, wherever. Your your risk tolerance is different. Your identity is also different. A lot of us are we're we're able to take those big steps in ways that look different from our parents because, like I said, there's options. People are going to second careers these days, people are opening up businesses. There's a lot of creativity. If you think it, you can do it, right? And I remember so well when I decided to jump into my practice full-time. I was working at a really stable company. I was making the most money that I've I'd ever made at that point. And I remember going to my mom and saying, Hey, I think it's time to jump into my practice full-time because I don't know how I'm going to balance all these different things. There's a lot of different things going on. And also, I was about to go into my doctoral program, and there was no way I could run my practice, work full-time, be a mother to, I think I had two under two at that point, and then also like try to, I don't know, live a life. It just was not, it was not going to work, right? And so I decided to take that risk of jumping into my practice full-time. And I remember my mom freaking out. She was like, Are we gonna be okay? Are you sure? Are you have you thought about this more? And I remember saying yes. Now, mind you, I'm terrified also. So imagine my my being terrified, my mom's fear coming together, it was a recipe for like something anxiety attack related. And so I remember talking to her, and and you know, somet some of us are are blessed in the way that, yes, it's scary, but we still have parents who will still stick beside us, right? And you know, my my identity has shifted, it has changed so much. I had the thought of, oh, I'm just gonna work in community mental health care, I'm gonna do this, I'm gonna, but my identity started shifting, right? And so for some of us, our identity is different, right? So we're not necessarily rejecting our parents and their sacrifice, we're just we're not. But the thing is that we are redefining success and what that looks like. There's also this point of like achievement, achievement versus alignment. So our generation, we're we're asking a new question. It's not what pays the most, but it's it's more of what aligns with who I am. And that is very, it's deeply uncomfortable for our parents who never had the luxury of alignment. A lot of them went into jobs that they did not necessarily love, right? They were doing it out of necessity, they were doing it because it paid the bills, they were doing it because it looked good on paper, right? And to think that some of us are out here trying to chase our passions and we're looking at alignment and what that looks like, and it's so foreign to them. Our parents don't understand what what luxury of alignment? What a lot what is alignment? Is this going to pay their bills? Is this going to give you enough money to send back home? Is it going to give you enough money to take care of me? Are we going to fly fast class or not? Right? Those are some of the things that our parents, you know, have thought about. And imagine them having to like explain to their friends, oh, my daughter is an entrepreneur. Entrepreneur, what? Right? Oh, she's a businesswoman. Oh, okay. What business does she do? Oh, she's a social media manager for a company, right? We are creating different jobs and careers and things that didn't exist 10, 20 years ago, right? So let's name something really hard here. Some some immigrant children became doctors not because they wanted to, but because they wanted approval. That's what looked good. Right. Some became engineers to keep the peace because they don't want any wahala, they don't want any trouble, they don't they don't want any drama, they don't want their aunties coming and asking them questions and and saying all of these things. And some of us are wildly successful, doing really well. We have all of the accolades, we have the PhD, MD, uh J J D. Isn't that the lawyer one? Yeah, the JDs, right? And we are wildly successful, but we're also quietly resentful, right? Because we're not living lives that are in alignment with who we are, what we dreamed for ourselves. And some have walked away and we're labeled rebellious, we're labeled Western, we're labeled uh ungrateful, right? Because we decided to dance to the beat of our own drums. And some of us are still trying to figure out what that beat even sounds like, right? But here's the truth gratitude does not require self-erasure. So you can honor your parents, you can honor their sacrifice, and you also you don't have to sacrifice your own identity. Now that is the bridge. So here is this week's Bridge the Gap Tip. I would like you to translate your dreams into language that your parents can understand. Now that is something that I had to figure out, and I'm still trying to figure it out. Because even today, like coming to the studio to do this recording and everything, I had to tell, you know, I told my dad I'm I'm going to Seattle and blah, blah, blah. And I had to make sure that I was breaking it down in a way that he understood that I was coming out to do a recording. And I'm sure in his mind, he's like recording for what? But my role here is to be able to translate that into a way that they're going to understand. So becoming even a therapist, right? I wanted to be able to talk to people, hear people's stories, work with them through their trauma, all those things. My parents are not going to understand all of those clinical words and the jargon and blah, blah, blah, and all those things. I had to be able to break it down or break it apart into a way that helps them understand. I talk with people who have experienced really difficult things and I help them and I walk with them so that they can experience some healing. So when it comes to translating, instead of saying, you know, I just I just don't want to go to medical school, or I just don't want to, you know, I just don't want to do this. I just don't want to go to engineering school. I just don't want to go to college, right? Try something like, here is my plan, right? Here is what I would like to do. And this is gonna sound so funny, but there's uh there's a there's a professional that I follow by the name of Bozma St. John. And every year, I think her daughter does like a little presentation about where she wants to go to for her birthday or something like that, right? And it's it's or what her needs are, what she wants for her birthday. And it's so cute, and and I look forward to doing things like that with my kids as they get older. But I think that it it makes it clear, right? So it might sound really silly to say, oh, go and create a PowerPoint or slide or whatever presentation and show your parents this is what the plan is. And the reality of it is also, especially for people like me, we might not necessarily know the entire plan, but there is some sort of like step that we can take. So, for example, what that looks like for me was in telling my parents, hey, I want to go to grad school and um or I want to become a psych major, I the plan was I explained it to them. Here's my plan. I'm going to go to grad school, I'm going to get a master's degree. They had master's degree, they're like, okay, you know, you're doing something. You know, you know, you have a second degree, advanced degree, we like that, right? And I said, and after that, I'm going to, you know, get a job, and at some point I'm going to open up my own practice. Okay, so there's that. Now, as to what that was going to look like, I had no idea, right? Another thing that you can even try to say is, you know, here's the income range where you do some research and say, hey, so for an uh a museum curator, this is what the income range is going to look like. Now, sometimes your parents might be like, oh, that doesn't look like enough. That's not a six-figure salary. If you have some ideas of how to, you know, add to that range when you're sharing that information with your parents, go ahead and add that. Well, I could do some freelancing here, and this is what that looks like. And then you, you know, you you pat it up a little bit, you know what I'm saying? You can also say things like, here is the stability path. This is what that path is going to look like. Or here's how I'm going to take care of myself, right? So at the bottom line is that immigrant parents really respect preparation, right? They they want to know that there's a path, that there is a method to what they might look at as madness. They need to understand, okay, this is what I'm I would like to do, this is what I'm going to do. And I remember very well, you know, even years later, my mom would still ask, So, are you going to ever go back to are you ever going to go to medical school? Right. And I remember saying, No, but I will get a PhD at some point. And she's like, Okay, you know, so we're still going to call you doctor. I said, Yes, you're still gonna call me doctor. And what's funny is that my mom started calling me doctor even before I I think when I was in in college, she was calling me doctor. I should she would email me and say, Doc, this. I remember going through my emails sometime back because I was trying to find some information and seeing all these emails from like 2007, 2008, and she says, you know, doc, how are you? How's your day going? And also just think about the fact that my mom and I used to exchange emails. It's like just it's it's what a world it has been. You know, I've lived in the US since 2007, and so I've I've kind of gone through like the different phases and everything, and yeah, it's been it's been something. Anyway, so if you're if you're the parent and you're listening, right, or you're watching, ask the question, okay, what does success mean to you? Right? Ask your child that question. What does success mean to you? And then listen. Listen without interrupting. So remember that for for a lot of us, you know, the the goal. The goal was never quote unquote doctor, the goal was safety, right? And so there are many ways for us to build it. It might not look the same. A lot of us are building success in so many different ways. A lot of times when I'm doing something different or doing something exciting, I I'll share with my mom and she's like, oh, okay, you know, that's exciting. Really nice, you're doing this and you're doing that. There's so much in the world these days, so many different ways to make money. Who would have thought that creating courses, for example, or I don't know, like putting things on social media was gonna make people money? Who would have thought? And so now we share those kinds of things with our parents and they're starting to understand, oh, okay, so there's all these different ways to make money. I have uh uh a son who is very much into making um stop motion videos, and he has he has a little YouTube channel, which I haven't necessarily made public yet because he's really young and I don't think that we're ready for that yet. But I remember like explaining to my parents this is what we can do, and I'm showing them examples. So I think that if we are able to show examples, or as we say in in Ghana, show your wick, show your weking, right? If you're able to show examples, it gives our parents a certain level of peace. Right. So remember that you're not you're not ungrateful for wanting a life that fits you. You're you're not. Our world today is not what it used to be a decade ago, two decades ago, right? And parents, your children choosing differently is not a rejection of you. It's evolution, right? And a lot of us are doing it. I'm I'm a wonderful example of that. And so this is something that is really, really passionate to me because I I want I want us to start taking up space in the quote unquote non-traditional world because our stories matter. The work that we do matters, our lived experiences matter. And so, parents, I hope that you can allow your children to start showing up in in different spaces that maybe you didn't even imagine. I don't think my parents ever imagined having a daughter who not only is a therapist, but is a group practice owner and is now a, you know, a professor and and teaching, right? At the graduate level, I don't think my parents imagined. I didn't even imagine that for myself, honestly, you know. But there's a lot of space out here, and we can take up some of that space. So I had to bring in someone from the generation that has a very clear list of acceptable careers. You know the list. We make jokes about it, right? I've talked about it. Doctor, engineer, maybe the lawyer and the family, if we're feeling a little flexible and want to throw a little razzle dazzle on it. So I invited the person who watched my academic journey very closely and definitely had opinions about what success would look like. My mom is here to help us understand what immigrant parents are actually thinking when they push us towards these uh career paths. So, mama, welcome to the show. Thank you. Alrighty. So we'll get right into it. So tell me, right, why do you all as parents, right, African parents, immigrant parents, why do you all want us in professions like engineering, law, and medicine?

SPEAKER_00 25:15

Parents are very worried about our children, yes, taking courses or become professionals is that one we want our children security, yeah, security and their career. We have to help them to make the decision what to do right in future for their living, and uh we are always uh want them to do a better job, to get a good profession that uh they will gain more money, and uh if you you get a good profession to do, right? One people respect you. That's true. Yes, they respect you, they will admire you. You get a lot of uh chances traveling to further the causes. Yeah, yeah, to further the causes. It's good they get a good job to do because uh if they don't get uh they don't become professionals and uh they just do just little little work, they will always come back to their parents. Right.

SPEAKER_01 26:30

Can I have can I have one dollar?

SPEAKER_00 26:31

Can I have two C to worry them? Yeah, but if uh he or she is like a lawyer, a doctor, engineer, you know, it's good, it's very good work. So he or she can take a decision he or she wants to. Yes, there are a lot of now technology, so many things. If you go to that profession, you can do a lot.

SPEAKER_01 27:01

Right. There's a lot more opportunities, opportunities, yes.

SPEAKER_00 27:05

So I think uh if they they get a good profession, it will help them and their family.

SPEAKER_01 27:14

Them and the family, right? Because it's not just about us, right? We're not from a culture where we're focusing just on us and and only on what it is that we need. Yeah, we're we're thinking about everybody else too within the family. And so what I'm hearing you saying is that parents are putting this these expectations on their children because they want them to be stable, yes, they want them to do better than they did as parents, right? They want them the places that they didn't go to, they want their children.

SPEAKER_00 27:42

Children can go right to go to, and they will experience a lot, they will experience a lot of things because as parents, not all of us went to do search courses, right? So you'll be proud that your son or daughter is doing that, so when people see you, you too, you can boast. Yeah, you can say that ah, my son is doing this. Doctor. My child is a doctor. Yes, my daughter is an engineer, right? My son, too, is a lawyer, it brightens the family. Yeah, it gives a good name to the family, to the family, yeah. Yeah, okay.

SPEAKER_01 28:29

It's good. Do you have any questions for me around this?

SPEAKER_00 28:33

Yes, also, yes. Um what does success mean to you? Right.

SPEAKER_01 28:40

So, based on everything that you're saying and and the conversations that we have had, especially around careers and things like that, I I feel like success, I have learned that success is not just about me, like I was saying before. For me, success is being able to do the things that I enjoy while still being able to provide and maintain a certain lifestyle for myself, but also for my family. I know that I'm successful because I can take care of you.

SPEAKER_00 29:10

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 29:11

Because I look at it as my way of giving back to you for the ways in which you've poured into me. So success for me means being able to be in places that you were not able to go into because of the circumstances that you were born in or the circumstances that you, you know, ended up in, for example. Yeah. Right. Over time. And so for me, success is being able to put a smile on your face because you see me in a different light, you see me doing big things in the world, and it brings you joy. Yeah. Right. For me, success and joy kind of go hand in hand because if I think about what success means to me in this day and age, at my age, if it doesn't bring me joy, if it doesn't bring me happiness, if it doesn't bring me peace of mind, yeah, and a sense of fulfillment, to me, that is not success, right? So even for you, when when how how did you feel, for example? How did you let me ask you this? How did you feel when I said that I was going to become a therapist instead of a medical doctor?

SPEAKER_00 30:10

In fact, I was disappointed. Yes, somehow. Yeah. Because from your childhood you told us that uh you will be a doctor, a gynecologist. Gynecologist. Yeah. So I was so happy. But uh suddenly you changed your mind when you came here. You came to school after the school, you said you are going to be a therapist. I said, ah, well, we will take it like that.

SPEAKER_01 30:46

Take it like that. And I think you said we'll take it like that because you heard that I was getting a master's degree. So at least I wasn't stopping only at the bachelor's degree.

SPEAKER_00 30:55

Yes. I was uh happy. I was happy because I know you are going to work and you will get money. Yeah, you get uh financial, your your financial finances would not be a burden to us. Yeah, and uh now I have experienced that the therapist work is very good, is very good, yeah. And uh the work you are doing is the same thing like being a doctor, right? Because I remember when I joined you to your first, I think your first office or practice, yeah. When I when I when I first opened the practice, your practice, your own practice, yeah. I was a secretary, yes, my first employee. I was a secretary, yeah. And when people come, they look sad, yeah, they look moody. You can see that they are not by themselves, but after I direct them to your office, when coming back, they look happy. You see, their face are bright, yeah, they are smiling, yeah. They will be saying, Oh, thank you. Thank you. Your daughter is doing well, she talked to us or she talked to me nicely. And uh, I'm so happy, I'm so grateful that you brought her here. And that time too, I was so happy and proud for people coming there with problems, yeah, and you solve them, solved the problems for them. So I was so happy, yeah, yeah, and uh I appreciated you for doing that and for choosing that career. It's very good, it's very good, and also you've gotten to travel, right?

SPEAKER_01 32:56

You've gotten to go places because of this career, right? You've gotten to you know, you get to go to Hawaii when I'm going for conferences.

SPEAKER_00 33:03

Very true, very true, because I'm not a therapist, but I joined the group. Wow, unofficial therapist, yes, I joined the group, right? Yeah, and when people see me, your colleagues see me, they are so happy, right? Yeah, they are so happy, they talk to me and they congratulate me that oh I've got a good doctor, right? Right, yeah, and a good daughter too. I say yes. I spoke in my mind that she was going to become a doctor, but now she's a therapist, right? And uh it's good.

SPEAKER_01 33:41

That the doctor came in a different way, right? It may not have been the MD, but there was still a PhD, so you still get to call me doctor. Oh, yeah, doctor. Yes, and and one of the things that I I love is even when I came to college, you always would call me doc. I was going through some of my old emails from my Yahoo, you know, inbox like 2007. Oh, yeah. You would always email and say, Doc, how are you?

SPEAKER_00 34:02

Because people started calling you. I remember one of my colleagues, yeah, Mr. Abasa. Right, right, yeah, always called Where is Doc? Yeah, where is Doc? And even in the church, right? Some people were calling you Doc, right, Doctor, Doctor Phoebe, right? Yeah, even uh Pastor, right, yes, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 34:21

So so it was spoken into existence before it even happened, which is really important that you say that because for for parents who are listening or watching, the things that you say over your children are so important, yeah, right. And so even if your children are choosing a career or a path that doesn't make sense to you, you still have to speak life into them, right? You still have to like prophesy, you still have to maintain a positive attitude, attitude, right? So long as there's some sort of plan. And also like, you know, asking the questions, but not asking them in a judgmental way.

SPEAKER_00 34:53

No, right?

SPEAKER_01 34:54

Because I know you've asked me questions. So, okay, so what do you do? Right. Right. And even like you know, as you're speaking, you said, you know, solving problems. And and the reality is that I don't necessarily like solve problems for people, but I I sit with them as they're trying to solve the problem, right? So in times where you've asked me those kinds of questions, I think to myself, oh, my mom is genuinely curious about what it is that I do, and she respects what I do, right? And and sometimes it can be scary for parents because you have no idea what your child is doing. And for us as children, too, it can be frustrating because we have an idea of what it is that we want to do, or we're trying to navigate it, but we have parents who do not understand it, right? So I'm really grateful that you you you gave me that chance, right? And and you believed in me. Yeah. Because not everybody gets that, right? You you you may not have understood that there was a method to the madness, quote unquote, but there was still something there that you know kept me going because I knew that my mom was still there, my mom was still going to support me. And I even remember being in the doctoral program and wanting to to quit because I was so overwhelmed with life and just being a mother and all the things. And I remember you saying to me, like, you're not going to drop out of school.

SPEAKER_00 36:02

You have to continue.

SPEAKER_01 36:03

You have to continue. And I think myself, oh yeah, because she called me a doc. I need to make sure that this is actually happening, right? Yeah. So so I just I really appreciate that. And you know, what is one thing that you think children like me should remember about their parents when it comes to this particular topic about careers and you know, what job you want to do and things like that. You know, when it comes to the the children, I mean, you've mentioned a few things about, you know, the parents, but you know, if you could give me any kind of advice as the child who is picking a career that you know the parent doesn't understand, what what advice would you would you give? Because I know for for us what worked was that I explained to you. And a lot of times children are not patient.

SPEAKER_00 36:44

Yes. Um the parents have to be patient, yeah. And you know, ask your children the career, right? And the child should uh be able to explain what the career means, right, what is going he or she is going to get from it, and uh how it will end. Right. Yeah. So for the uh a lot of us doesn't know the career or the course that uh the child is going to do, right? They won't understand. Yes. And uh they have to uh be patient and ask uh the child to explain, and uh you set him or her down, right? You to you share your experience to the person, you talk to him, you guide him or her, and you pray with him. The prayers is uh it shouldn't stop, it shouldn't stop. We have to pray for our children, yeah, and get patience for them, and they too, because uh now it is now this time the children who are coming up, uh their minds are different. True, it's not like our time, right? Yeah, so you have to be patient always and understand them, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 38:11

And and for the and for the children also understanding where their parents are coming from, yes, right? That our parents did not come here, you know, with with the kind of privilege that we have now because we have a lot more chances, we have a lot more options, and parents like you didn't have that. And so it might sound scary, it might seem like, oh, our parents want to, you know, kind of constrict us or make us do things a certain way or based on what they think is right. Yeah, because what they saw was right worked for them, right? But it's our role as the children to be able to explain to our parents and and and be patient and also understand that this also comes from a place of love. We don't want boomerang children, right? Where you know, boomerang children is like children who leave the house and then they come back home and then they're always always asking, Can I get stoiled back? Can I can I come can I break my boom? Can I get some dollar off?

SPEAKER_00 39:02

Yes, can I get something to eat? Right, yeah. Can I get some small money? Right, yeah, then that can be hard on a parent. Yeah. Well, thanks for saying that.

SPEAKER_01 39:13

I think we did pretty well, huh?

SPEAKER_00 39:15

Oh, thank you.

SPEAKER_01 39:16

Yeah, okay. I've tried my best. All right. Next time, we're going to flip that perspective again. Maybe take it a little bit more to the the parent, you know, perspective again. That's what I'm here to do. You know, we're switching. Everybody's going to get a piece of this, okay? So I'm not parents, I'm not coming for you, children. I'm not coming for you. I'm coming for all of us. You understand? So, again, I'm Dr. Phoebe, and this is me bridging the gap between two worlds where ambition, fear, love, and generational expectations all sit at the same dinner table. And someone is still asking, why are you not in med school? Anyway, so make sure that you hit that subscribe button because you want to know when new episodes come out. So follow me on social media, also. Dr. Phoebe Rackle, P H E B E B R A K O. And please leave us a review. Let the world know what you're hearing and how this is helping. And also share it with the aunties. You know, put it in their group chats. I know you all are in a lot of group chats on WhatsApp. So make sure that you you let somebody know about this podcast. And if you have any questions or you have a topic that you're thinking, hey Phoebe, you need to talk about this too. Make sure you send me a DM on Instagram. Thank you so much for watching and listening, and I'll be back next time with another conversation.