I’m Not Too American, You Raised Me Here (with Dorinda Mensah)

Have you ever been told you’re “too American”… by the very people who raised you in America?

In this episode of Between Two worlds with Dr. Phebe, she sits down with Dorinda (Follow her on IG: nurturinggnature)  for an honest, funny, and deeply relatable conversation about growing up between cultures. Together, they unpack the unique experience of being raised with one set of values at home and another everywhere else.

From code-switching and cultural expectations to identity, belonging, and being told you’re “too Western,” this episode explores what it means to navigate two worlds while never feeling fully at home in either.

You’ll laugh, nod your head, and probably think about that one time your parents said:

“That’s not how we do things back home.”

Even though “back home” wasn’t where you were raised.

If you’ve ever felt too American for your family, but not American enough for everyone else, this conversation is for you.

At the end of the day, adapting isn’t betrayal and honoring your culture doesn’t mean losing yourself.

Listen in, and don’t forget to share this episode with someone who’s spent their life translating between worlds.

Send your questions and topic ideas to consult@phebebrakolmft.com or slide in my DM's on Instagram @drphebebrako

Remember we can only grow our audience with your support. Please share with your community!

Transcript

SPEAKER_02 0:00

I've felt like having to fight for my place, you know, as a black woman living in America.

SPEAKER_00 0:08

They make you earn your identity. It it feels like it. It feels like it feels like you're earning an identity in which that I won't, I'm saying this. I didn't ask to earn it or be it. I came here, right? As an immigrant, we came to this country. We came from a country where we saw all a lot of us, whether oppressed or non-oppressed, we were here, we were there together. So when we come here, I want to just be absorbed. Like that's what I always wanted was that absorption of me and that curiosity. Yeah. But it's like they the curiosity of the pop culture is really American bonding. You have to know the movie, you gotta know the TV show, you gotta know the poetic justice braids, you know. And it's like, did you say that did you tell the hair lady you wanted poetic justice braids, or you just wanted big, thick braids? Do you know what I'm saying? It's like, wait, why would you say that? And I'm like, I cannot win.

SPEAKER_02 1:05

Welcome back to Between Two Worlds with Dr. Phoebe, the podcast where immigrant parents and their children finally say the quiet parts out loud. I'm your host, Dr. Phoebe Brauco. I'm a therapist, a sandwich immigrant, immigrant daughter, and someone who has personally been told that I'm becoming too American. Which is always fascinating to hear because respectfully, like I've lived my entire adult life here in the US. I moved here at a fresh, you know, bright-eyed, bushy-tailed 18. So today's episode is called I'm Not Too American, You Just Raised Me Here. And whew. This one is for everyone who has ever code-switched mid-sentence, which I kind of just did not long ago. And for those who have had to hide parts of themselves, depending on the room or the space that they're in, or have also been made to feel like they're too much of one culture and not enough of another. Today we're going to be talking about identity, culture, belonging, and the emotional gymnastics of being raised between two worlds. And I'm not doing it alone. I have a guest with me today who understands this experience on a very, very deep level, right? So today's guest is someone who I love and adore and knows exactly what it feels like to navigate two cultures at the same time. We're talking about immigrant expectations, American culture, um, identity confusion, and the you know, the tiny identity crisis that happens inside of us when your parents say, you know, hey, that's not how we do things back home and things like that. So please welcome my dear friend and Salem sister, Dorinda. Hello. Thank you so much.

SPEAKER_00 2:48

Thank you for having me.

SPEAKER_02 2:49

Absolutely. Oh, I'm excited to share this. I I am very excited to have you two. And also just, you know, just for context, we've known each other for a while. Yeah. But we just met in person for the first time this year, even though we felt like we've been in each other's lives forever.

SPEAKER_00 3:11

Long years.

SPEAKER_02 3:12

Years, really.

SPEAKER_00 3:13

I was gonna say, I think once I graduated, I almost figured out I was like, Phoebe, I'm a like I was like, everything was clicking after the end.

SPEAKER_02 3:21

After the end, right? So even though we went to the same college, we went at different times, right? So you came right after I graduated. Yeah. So so I'm excited today because we're going to be unpacking the universal, you know, immigrant child experience of basically being told that you're you're too American or you're too Western, and meanwhile, you're literally like doing the best with the best. Doing the best that you can and growing and growing up. And and and you know, I I remember even growing up hearing things like, you know, American children are are disrespectful. And meanwhile, like I'm sitting here thinking to myself, I go to I go to an American school, right? I went to an American school in Ghana. It was called Soul Clinic International School. It was in Kentleman's in in the capital, Accra, right? And so you know you're hearing all these things, and like, well, but this is the this is where I am, and like I'm spending eight hours a day at the school or whatever. And so, like, what is the dissertation here, right? And uh the the funny thing is that as immigrant children, it feels like we learn how to shape shift at a very, very early age. It's a skill.

SPEAKER_00 4:29

The assimilation, the adaptation, and it's not like anyone even tells us to do it, honestly, because you don't come here and your parents don't say, Go be a good X, Y, and Z, a good American. Like they don't tell you that, or they don't even tell you to go be a good Ganyan, they just tell you go to school. And so being too American, like when I was reflecting on that statement, it always followed with like, you're too American. And then the action, it's always to me, it's always led or followed by an action. You're too American, you're not showing me respect, or you're too American, like, why didn't you get that done? Right, you're too American. How do you even not know how to do something? Right. Because we know the Ganyan to me, that I feel like the Ganyan thing is always, how do you not know this thing? And you're like, when in this non-adult life that I'm living in, was I supposed to adapt? Right. You know, this awareness, this ability to do. So for me, being too American was always like, you're too American, you're not showing respect. So I'm not speaking the way that I need to and requesting the things I need to do. But like you said, you're in a school system that's saying, like, okay, after you've raised your hand, use your voice. Yeah. Speak up. Right. I mean, in the US system, there's advocacy, there's you know, all these words that I'm supposed to say to the people around me for them to understand, and then that makes you too American. Right.

SPEAKER_02 5:47

You know what I'm saying? And and and what is so funny, even thinking about it, is you again back to the topic of like shape shifting, right? You go to school and it's hey girl, hey, you and that sort of thing where you're trying to blend in, and then you come home and it's yes ma. Yeah, yes, greeting, yeah, the hunting. The greeting. You know, you have to like curtsy or or sometimes even like, I don't know, lay pro shale on the ground or something like that.

SPEAKER_00 6:11

That is I've okay, I've never seen that in my life as a Ghanaian until my Nigerian friend entered my home and she did that to my father. And I'm sitting there looking at her, like, girl, what are we doing here?

SPEAKER_02 6:25

That that's because that's the that's declutation.

SPEAKER_00 6:27

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 6:27

Right? It's a it's a very Nigerian thing. I think I've only seen it with Nigerians. I don't think that I've seen it with Ghanaians. I don't think that there's that we have any tribes per se that that would reflect that type of yeah. Actually, maybe those in the northern part, you know, those from the north, I think they may. They may, you know, they may do that. But listen, I'm not I'm not going to try to And that's the too American for me.

SPEAKER_00 6:51

I'm too American to know which parts I'm gonna still do which parts of what.

SPEAKER_02 6:56

I mean, listen, we have we have how many new new uh regions and I don't know Yeah, in Ghana. When when I grew up it was 10, and now we have more than that. And I can't even tell you that I know every single thing.

SPEAKER_00 7:07

That was like 20 something.

SPEAKER_02 7:08

Listen, I don't okay, okay.

SPEAKER_00 7:10

But yeah, we're still I mean, I'm still here. And that whole shape-shifting thing, I don't know. For me, my story feels a wee bit different because from Ghana to the US wasn't my story. It was Ghana, the Bahamas, and then the US. So to American is really said a lot out of my mother's voice. I don't hear that from my dad, and he's a school teacher with middle schooler. So I think the empathy of understanding, like you're already at an age where you're developing and understanding. So my father would never really say to American, but my mother loves her. Um, but that too American statement came from her, and it was because I feel like she felt like she saw the loss of me and of the Ghanaian me. Because in the Bahamas, for four years, I had a twang. I had the Caribbean, Caribbean twang, you know, and then you have the Ghanaian accent. It's it's a wild thing if I could replicate it to this day, but I can't. As you can see, I'm so American or hear, you know, my dialect now. But once I got to the US, for me, shape shifting looked completely different. My identities turned into three things Ghanaian, Bahamian, or islander. And then I was like looking forward to becoming this American that I thought had freedom, that I thought could say what they needed to say. Yeah. So for me, shape shifting it felt a little bit more complicated because I was grieving Bahamas and Ghana. Wow. I was grieving the island culture that I had to learn as well. You have wherever you go, you you kind of you have to learn and adapt and assimilate, right? And accommodate for what you don't have going on. Right. So for me coming to America, the two American situation, I was like, I don't even know who I am or what I'm supposed to be.

SPEAKER_01 8:52

Right.

SPEAKER_00 8:53

And and to be honest, to take care of me, like to be okay. Yeah. Um, so I don't know how to say this, but yeah, I feel like that's my only differentiating factor is that for me it was the Ghanaian, and I was I left Ghana when I was three.

SPEAKER_01 9:07

Oh.

SPEAKER_00 9:07

So it's almost like no memory, no recollection. My first memory when people ask me about it was the Bahamas. Like, I thought I was Bahamian. Oh, you could ask me who I was. I was an island girl. I was like, give me some Bob Marley, give me my flowy dress. I need to eat Kunk Shell fritters. Like that was who I was.

SPEAKER_02 9:24

I like some conch fritters. Oh my goodness.

SPEAKER_00 9:26

I love the Bahamas. I really appreciate it. And then you come to the US, and then you kind of that identity and that Americanism, it just really always came in. Like again, I say like house tours. Oh, you're too American. You didn't think this morning we were gonna wake up and dice, you know, disinfect the entire house, or you know, you're too American. You didn't think your sister was hungry. I said, What do you mean my sister's hungry? She said, Well, when you eat, your sister eats. I said, I definitely understand that, right? But don't adapt it to this individualistic mindset that I've I'm not individualistic. I think that's the biggest thing about being too American is when our parents see, especially if you have siblings, they don't see you doing this everyone needs to come along with me situation. My parents would pull me down to the side, well, you know, your sisters are here, and we came here to do this. And so you you're you're paving the way, you're leading the way.

SPEAKER_02 10:18

The pressure. Yeah. The pressure. And so it's like you can't even afford to mess up or anything because not only do you have your parents looking at you, you have your siblings also looking at you. And so there's so much pressure, and every choice that you make, it seems like it's a reflection on everybody else, too. Oh, it is, right?

SPEAKER_00 10:36

It is, and then when you go outside, like you, I think we talked about this as like, am I American enough for the Americans? So then the Americans are like, oh, like you're you're getting there. You're getting there. And then we have to dissect this. What type of American? Am I a black American or am I African American?

SPEAKER_02 10:52

Yes, yes. What which one would you say you you're currently leaning towards?

SPEAKER_00 10:58

I probably say I'm African American because what it stands for and how it became was the representation, the acknowledgement of the African roots and the development of what America is based on Africans. Right? So to me, I feel like that needs to stay in the sentence because people need to understand like African Americans created America, but where do they first come from? Africa. Because when you say black Americans and this is gonna turn into a toasty situation, it's like I understand the black American identity because of what they created for themselves within a system that was not going to let them flourish. Are we forgetting that things are gonna be written down on paper? And if you look at the word African American, people will then connect the two. Um, but if you ask black American, it allows us to open up and understand what that is and that's identity. But to me, it's like cultural paturity. We always need to remember where we came from, we always need to bring forth into where we currently are, where we came from. Um, so to me, I think my black heart has been taken away so many times, um, especially in college. You learn that that that where you really are, where you who you really are, who you're not in college. Someone's like, oh, we need to go watch Baby Boy. And I'm like, What's baby boy?

SPEAKER_02 12:13

I experienced that so much. And even till today, I I feel judged in so many ways because there's a lot of quote unquote classic black movies that I have not seen. And it almost people almost like look at me like, excuse me, how are you black? and not and and you don't know about the storyline for for uh baby boy or uh uh what's the one with the the vampire blade.

SPEAKER_00 12:35

Oh yeah. Oh, that was a beautiful that was a good show.

SPEAKER_02 12:38

Right, you know, like there there's all these things again with that assumption that we all grew up here and we have the same shared black experience and we don't. Right. And so sometimes I've I've felt like having to fight for my place, you know, as a black woman living in America.

SPEAKER_00 12:55

They make you earn your identity. It it feels like it. It feels like it feels like you're earning an identity in which that I won't, I'm saying this, I didn't ask to earn it or be it. I came here, right? As an immigrant, we came to this country, we came from a country where we saw a lot of us, whether oppressed or non-oppressed, we were here, we were there together. So when we come here, I want to just be absorbed. Like that's what I always wanted was that absorption of me and that curiosity. Yeah, but it's like the the curiosity of the pop culture is really American bonding. You have to know the movie, you gotta know the TV show, you gotta know the poetic justice braids, you know. And it's like, did you say the did you tell the hair lady you wanted poetic justice braids, or you just wanted big, thick braids? Do you know what I'm saying? It's like, wait, why would you say that? And I'm like, I cannot win. You yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 13:43

And and you know, as you're saying that, it has me wondering something that I wanted to ask you about. You know, when when did you realize? And for you, you were balancing three cultures. Like, when did you realize, like, what was there a moment when you were growing up where you realized, yo, I am balancing three different cultures, the Ghanaian, the the Bahamian, and then also the American.

SPEAKER_00 14:04

Yeah. Uh, I mean, as a Ghanaian immigrant, I first recognized that difference because it came as a difference to me at third grade. I remember Miss Jordan at A. Philip Randolph Elementary School, whoop, whoop, Fulton County, Georgia. She can't she just one day, I just remember she just said, come to the front of the class and tell your friends about your like your life in the Bahamas. And I was just like, baby, we'll just figure that out through playtime. Like, I'm not here to tell you who I am. And it was really because as a Ghanaian, I came here very confident. Because you in a Ghanaian household, you are confident. You are told of all the things that you're told. But then I stood up in front of the classroom and I'm telling them about myself and like with pride and joy and excitement. Then they're like raise their hands, ask me a question. It's like, oh, so do you like sleep next to your lion or do you sleep next to your zebra? And I'm like, sleep next to who? Who are you? So then I said that uh the in the naive thing, I said, Oh, my teddy bears are not lions and zebras. My teddy bears are ted are bears. And then they're looking at me like, what do you mean?

SPEAKER_02 15:12

No, we're talking about the actual animals here, okay.

SPEAKER_00 15:15

So that was a moment where I'm like, I'm relating to them. Like, oh yeah, we're seeing each other, we're bonding on our stuffed animals to be asked in clarification. No, the and the lion that has the mane that roars. And I'm like, baby, I don't know where they are.

SPEAKER_02 15:29

They're not in my backyard.

SPEAKER_00 15:30

They're not in my bed, they're not in my backyard. So yeah, so when that when people ask you a question like that, that seems to separate you and primatize you, or I'm making that word up, if that's a word. Um, you're just like, wait, what what what who am I? Because these people don't see me the way I thought they saw me.

SPEAKER_01 15:48

Ooh.

SPEAKER_00 15:50

So that was it. And then the second most strongest moment where I recognized that I have multiple identities and thought I had the chance to choose which identity was gonna move forward in life. I don't know the date or the time, but I remember in an American system in an elementary school, I came home and I just remember being mad and yelling at my dad. But my dad tells me, and he'll say this his day, that I came home and I told him, I'm not speaking gun, I'm not speaking tree anymore in my life because those kids are so mean, always correcting me, mimicking me. And I said, I can choose who I am, and I guess I'm gonna leave the Ganyin behind because she's not gonna make me happy. I can't be happy being her in this world. And my dad says from there, I stopped speaking gana, I stopped speaking tree. Oh wow. And to this day, I wouldn't respond to them, I wouldn't respond in our dialect, I would always respond in English. So I understand my dialects, you know, the Ghana and the tree fluently, but can I speak it? I think maybe I might need to go through hypnosis because I think I turned it. You know, like even like in Ghana, you say it and people say that oh, and you know people say you're too American the way you say your English. So, oh your English is so sweet. Oh, it's so sweet. What is sweet about the way I'm speaking right now?

SPEAKER_02 17:12

I know. And and then, you know, there's also that dead giveaway also when you when you speak gun or you speak, you know. Yeah, because then there there's a shift that happens there, and you might find yourself throwing in more English words to try to make it. I saw a video maybe two days ago, and I think it was this young man who was sitting in a car and was saying something about sitting outside and waiting for a friend, and I think they were saying they were speaking English, and then just all of a sudden the trees slid in, you know, like like yen tem, yen tem. I'm okay, you know, it and it was so funny, but it's such such a thing that like slides in so smoothly. And I think that sometimes our parents don't realize how much we are already integrating it. And and it also breaks my heart to hear you talk about the language piece, and it reminds me of this concept um called the bicultural identity integration model. And it, you know, I I that was a backdrop from my dissertation uh yet last year. And it talks about how we're able to blend the two cultures. And and as you're speaking, I'm just thinking to myself, hey, we need to maybe do a training for for our African parents on how we can integrate the cultures and and also maybe like you know the younger versions of you about the importance of being able to integrate and especially with the language part.

SPEAKER_00 18:34

And you know, is I don't think it's funny enough, I don't think a lot of Ghanaian parents actually need that much of it. Only because my parents also did not integrate my social interactions with Ghanaian children that much. I feel like it would not have happened if I had a place to have an accent, to have my language with people my age. So we came to the US and it's like your parents are my parents both have degrees, but they were working in the warehouse. So you're just in the house. You're that latchkey kid after the bus goes, right? And then to start socializing, your parents start looking around, like, oh yeah, my child's so socialized, but then who should I socialize them with? Oh and that could be another episode of because of my dad's philosophy. He said, you know, you need to be around those who are in the system and who are succeeding in the system. So we're not gonna talk about who they are, right? And what they look like. Right. But my frustration with my language at school because that was the only place I could be Ghanaian and learn to become American. But I had strife.

SPEAKER_02 19:37

Ooh. You see? Ooh, ooh, ooh, yeah. And and speaking of the strife, I think about how for us as immigrant children, when you go home, it's obedience, it's collectivism, it's it's tradition. And then outside of the home, you have independence, you have self-expression, right? There's the individuality that you mentioned that, you know, like that advocacy piece. And sometimes we're we're expected to master both of them like super duper perfectly. And, you know, I yeah, it it's it's such a task, right? And so going back to to our topic, because I feel like we could just go down that hill, but going back to our topic, I guess like, what does it mean? Or what do you think immigrant parents are referring to when they say that someone is quote unquote too American? What does that even mean?

SPEAKER_00 20:24

I'm telling you, it's situational. You're not too American when you your direct deposit hits the bank account. You're not too American, you know, when you are inviting your family members and your friends to a themed party that has a caterer that has American drinks and Ghanaian drinks, right? So you're not a little sober low here and there, with a little, you know, capriçan on the side. And the way we love Fanta, is that I mean soda. Yes, Fanta and Coke. Fanta, Coke, and Sprite. To American just means that to me, situationally, that individual, I think is being challenged by you. I'm just gonna say it. Ooh. Can you say more? Yeah. About that. They're being challenged. We have a sort of monolithic culture. And so in our monolithic culture, there is a cohesion, there's a cons there's a consensus on like what we want to celebrate, what we don't want to celebrate, how we succeed and how we excel. I'm someone who's too American because I'm able to change jobs every year and still pay my bills, still drive a car and still look good. Where someone says they resign and go to another job, somehow life is not okay. Right. Uh, I'm too American again when I like come into the house, put my stuff down, and I'm just excited and I start talking and I'm saying, you know, just let's go, let's let's do it. Oh, you didn't greet me. Oh, you didn't, you know, good afternoon, Ma, good afternoon, dad. I understand it. Yeah. But you know, we it as Americans, we acknowledge each other differently. Yeah. Body language, physical, um, physical language, community. So I I'm too American when I laugh with my teeth open, my mouth open, you see my tongue and mom. My mom will say, What is that? What is that? I said, What is what? Where is this? Where is this? Joy? Right. You're seeing joy on my face.

SPEAKER_02 22:13

And all of a sudden it's too American. So it's it's almost like anything that challenges a status quo or anything that goes against the grain that they're used to. It feels like it's too American. Anything that feels threatening to them.

SPEAKER_00 22:25

That's the way I can in the way that I live, and I've somehow, I'm just like, what did this do to you? Because two American maybe means that it's something that you won't adapt to because you feel like that helps you preserve your identity.

SPEAKER_02 22:39

Yeah. And then you're also becoming, you know, the two American is partly also because they they don't they don't understand you, right?

SPEAKER_00 22:46

But that's the system you told me to go and excel in because you sacrifice so much in in in that in life that for me to come here means that I need to excel here. But do you know what it who I have to become to excel? How I have to integrate new modalities of thinking and living, even expressing. Americans like to see expression. As again, you say, mm-hmm, mm-hmm. And here I am doing it. And you know, or I, you know, those are the three, four maybe anomatope you hear and you know someone's very much engaged. But an American, you gotta say, oh, no way, clock it. Like it's it's it's a it's a combo of movement design language. Yes. And so me being too American, is it I feel like I'm just challenging you.

SPEAKER_02 23:31

And and so, you know, as as you're speaking too, I'm just thinking about all the many ways in which your family probably feels like you're too American for them. Right. And and I wonder what that's like for you and your interactions with your family when you know that this is what they think also about about you. I love it. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 23:50

I it just means that I did become something else. I did, I I have the resilience, I have mental flexibility, yes, I have dexterity, I have the things that a human, a whole human being needs. Yeah. And if we really think about, like when I look at my cousins and and young people in Ghana, you know, we get to be submissive, genders, men and women. If you really want to see submission in gender, in both genders, I think the Ghanaian community and culture has done that. Like we both know where to bow. You see a woman, a man will bow to a woman when she does something that she he deems domestic and feminine, right? And then you see a man go and do something, and you're like, yes I'm gonna be able to do it. We love that, yes, we love it. Um I'm trying to remember the question again. I feel like I I hope I was there.

SPEAKER_02 24:41

Um, no, you you you answered it so beautifully because it sounds to me like you are embracing the positives of it and seeing your own growth and the ways in which you have been able to coexist. Yeah. Right? It sounds like you have really put work into being able to dwell and grow and thrive in a way that makes sense for you. Even if sometimes it doesn't make sense, you know.

SPEAKER_00 25:06

It's a compliment. You I think we know our culture too. We have to understand when someone says something to you, like, ah, you think you're wearing that dress, you are actually wearing that dress. Right. Feeling it. Right. So honestly, sometimes the too American thing is a admittance to you've become a part of an American that maybe I wanted you to become. I just didn't know how to teach you. Right. Sometimes, like with my dad, he validates me that way. He's like, Oh, Drinda, he we I'll hear him talking to someone. He's like, Oh, Drinda went to that room and she did this and this presentation and did this and this. You know what I'm saying?

SPEAKER_02 25:37

It's a moment of pride.

SPEAKER_00 25:38

Yeah. And to me, that is the two American they want. Right. We have to understand there's parts of Americans they don't want, they do want. They want to see us go out there and shine. And that to me, when I when I reflect from that to American, I always lean back to how my dad sees me. Because honestly, in his eyes, I feel a lot of pride. And I see that the part of the American that I am, like he's he, my dad's an artist. He paints, visually paints art and carves wood. And to this day, he'll tell me to go talk to someone to do pricing. Oh, because he even a Ghanaian man can't say, pay me my money. Rub me my money. This man's an artist for over 35 years in three different countries in museums. And me, little old me, the two American daughter who's can run her mouth, is the one negotiating a price for your painting.

SPEAKER_02 26:26

Because you have a skill set that he probably never had the opportunity to develop. Um, a muscle that he never got a chance to exercise.

SPEAKER_00 26:36

It's just his accent. My dad's a teacher, he speaks in into to students, of course, to teachers whenever he has to do whatever he has to do, or principals or superintendents. Yeah. But I even look at my dad, I'm like, I'm confident because of you. Yeah. But why is it that you you're you you limit yourself with your accent or you don't want to repeat, you know, he doesn't like repeating himself. So if someone says 75 and he says 75, and then there's like, well, 75. And it's like, I said 75. 75.

SPEAKER_02 27:03

It's 75, okay? Because we like to accentuate the T, you know?

SPEAKER_00 27:08

And I'm just like that. Like, I don't know. Can't you enjoy that banter? And for him, it's like a no. It's a no for him.

SPEAKER_02 27:14

So you know, I I can see where he's coming from because even when I was in grad school, right, there was a word that I struggled with saying, and every time I would say it, they my classmates would would make fun of me, right? And you know, some of my classmates would, and they thought it was cute, you know, quote unquote. But I knew that, you know, people were poking fun at the way that I say adolescent, right? And so for a very long time, I did not say adolescent because it will come out as adolescent, because where we come from, it's adolescent, you know, and so I would always just go with teenager, and sometimes it would, it would kind of want to come out, you know, you know, the the adult, but then it would always go back to teenager because I was so conscious of it. So I see where your where your dad is coming from in in that way. So, you know, the reality of it is that as immigrant children, you know, we're really living double lives in in so many different ways. Who we are at home and sometimes who we are outside. I feel like if our parents put a little camera with us and they saw us outside, they will probably encounter a totally different person. And and even for me, I'm still allowing my family a little bit more access to those parts of me. And so I remember even my dad talking about this podcast, you know, like ah, so you know, there's a YouTube, you know, and because I I didn't really talk to him about it because like sometimes you don't want to hear what sometimes their words don't help you.

SPEAKER_00 28:33

Let's just be honest. It does not make ideas flourish, creativity flourish, it doesn't bring excitement to life. Like that's the part when I do think about too American, I'm like, that's the parts that make me want to shut myself in. Yes, and like go read a gant book or listen to like an old Ghanian movie so somehow I can have an accent, you know. Improve myself.

SPEAKER_02 28:53

Like, anybody got time for that? It doesn't help. So so let let's let's get into a little bit of fun here. And um, what what I would like to ask is um what is something that you did outside of your house that your parents would have absolutely panicked over?

SPEAKER_00 29:11

Just being outside in the first place. Just being outside. I don't know. Gary's always like, why are you what is there to do and how much money are you spending?

SPEAKER_02 29:18

But uh that costs money. We can't send the money home and you know, went by cement with bits and and and blocks and build something on demand. Who's calling me?

SPEAKER_00 29:28

Yeah, okay. So what would I do outside that's too American that my like if your parents found out like you're gonna be able to do it?

SPEAKER_02 29:35

Oh my goodness, they they would be freaking out a little bit.

SPEAKER_00 29:39

Oh goodness. I have to go to my mom because she's a traditional Ghanaian mother. My dad's very laissez-faire about life, but as an artist, maybe that's who he is. My mom, the first thing that she always says that's too actually too American about me is I like making friends. She says, You like making friends.

SPEAKER_02 29:55

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Because they'll they'll take you back to that proverb, that parable that we have about the the why the crab doesn't have a head.

SPEAKER_00 30:03

Oh, I haven't even heard this one because it's beautiful.

SPEAKER_02 30:06

Yeah, there's there's there's a there's a story about the fact that the crab doesn't have a head because it had too many friends, and so like I guess eventually like it lost its head, and so now it doesn't have a, you know. And there's a I think there's a there's a chi saying that, you know, uh now for f I don't for find you quite or something like that. And please forgive me if I I butchered that, but something along those lines, I can't remember the exact words, but yeah, like you know, the whole friends thing.

SPEAKER_00 30:28

Yeah, that is the one thing to this day, both of my parents, I think. But my mom always says that to me moving out to Seattle. She's like, Don't don't be too friend friend, too friend friend. And my mom saw it one time. I went to like a Ganya party. Yeah, but I saw my friend Kobe, so I went to go hug him and I was like, Hey, Kobe. And like I'm holding my his like side of his arms, and I'm like rubbing him, and I come back and say, My mom's like, What is that? What are you doing? Like, what are what are she always will squeeze her whole face? Oh, and I'm like, but we are Ghans, we're loving, caring, compassionate. People talk about how hospitable we are. Yeah, and I'm like, I think I'm doing what I've seen you do.

SPEAKER_02 31:01

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 31:02

She's like, no, not to those people, not to them. And I'm like, oh, now we're sectionalizing where our welcome spirit can be expressed. Yeah. So that is the one thing my parents are always like, listen, you know, just go do go there and do what you're supposed to do. Go there and do what you're supposed to do. You don't need to talk, you don't need to talk. But I'm like, we're in America. Have you heard of networking? Hello? You think all A Stream A's in a three-point OGPA will get me a job somewhere? No. Right. I have to do that. And I have to go speak to the daughter of this guy, yes, who will then I'll hang out with her, but then she'll talk to her dad. And then Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 31:35

Yeah. I know, I know my parents probably have that feeling, especially maybe my dad. My mom, maybe not so much, because you know, she goes with me to some of these things sometimes. But I know my dad, for example, probably thinks that I go out too much and you're always working your way. Because, like, for the practice to be successful, I need to be outside. Listen, I'm an introvert. I don't want to be outside either, okay? I want to stay in my bed and read a book, but I have to ex exert myself. I have to go outside and do this work and socialize. And I'm just like, I don't want to do it. So, you know, if you thinking like you're always out, where is she being coming home? When is she coming home? Your girl is outside, okay?

SPEAKER_00 32:10

She's trying to make this money. And it's not even that we're bringing these people into the deepest, closest part of our lives.

SPEAKER_02 32:17

No, like I think my parents there's a method to it. Sorry, I didn't mean to cut you off.

SPEAKER_00 32:21

I I just loved it because it's it's very simple. To me, it was a very simple thing. And I mean, when I started um getting my yoga certification, that was crazy. Like, wow, my mom was just like a whole Ghanaian with yoga.

SPEAKER_02 32:33

Did you all hear that? Yoga certification as a Ghanaian.

SPEAKER_00 32:37

Come on. Because there's Kemet Yoga, which is like Egyptian yoga. And then I thought, okay, maybe if I just get that certification. But I was like, you know what? It feels too pigeonholed and or Kemet yoga. So I just said I'm just gonna find our general yoga certification. But then once I started getting my mat and things like that, and I'm going out to public again. My mom said, Are you opening a gym? She said, Are you where's your gym? I said, I am the gym. I am the gym. Sometimes you have to say the gym is me. Cause at least for me, I'm a very sensitive person. Yeah. And because again, not growing in a Ghanaian household with like the aunts and aunties to be picked at. I think if you're you get a you get a good tough skin in a Ghanaian culture in the household because you get picked at. I didn't have that. So too American was also after I wanted to socialize, it was like I wanted my feelings to be coddled.

SPEAKER_01 33:23

Oh.

SPEAKER_00 33:23

I want it to be validated. Yeah. I I mean the biggest thing for me was like asking my parents at 10 to say I love you. My parents said, Oh, where's the food on your plate? Did you eat it? Is it in your stomach? There's your love. You ate your love.

SPEAKER_02 33:35

The love is the roof over your head. The kind that you get to write into school.

SPEAKER_00 33:38

So affection and the desire to emote, you know, based on how I want to emote. And uh observing Americans' emote and then observing Ghanaians' emote. We are expressive people. So why is it that when I express myself and I socialize and I bundle it all together, I'm too American. It breaks my heart.

SPEAKER_02 33:58

You know, and and here's what I think that many parents don't realize, right? That immigrant children are often carrying two emotional responsibilities at once, right? We're trying to honor the families where we came from. We're trying to figure out who we are individually, and that's really, really hard. And so many of us become like these translators where, for example, you're talking about like, you know, the emotions, and and we we have to like learn how to figure out some of these things for ourselves, but also for our families so that we can get some of our needs met, even though that might not always happen. And, you know, early on we start trying to navigate who we are in like these different places, and honestly, it ends up being really, really exhausting over time. So this week's bridge the gap tip, right? Because I always have a tip here. I I my tip today is that you know, we stop treating adaptation like it's betrayal, like we're letting go of our culture, right? So if you're the parent, your child is learning the culture they grew up in, and that does not mean that they hate their roots. And if you're the child, right, learning independence and and boundaries does not mean that you have to like reject the culture completely, right? Two things can can exist at once, right? You know, you can love your family, you can love your culture, and you can also evolve and do things like yoga certifications on things like that, right? So it's not an either, it's not an either or, right? So I have one final question for you. And that question is what do you wish that immigrant parents really understood better about their children that are being raised between the two cultures? Oh my gosh.

SPEAKER_00 35:33

Well, one, my first instinct is to say that we love them. But I don't think that's gonna land too far. Cause what? Like, love doesn't pay the bills, right? So dang. Yeah. What do I ooh? I don't I don't want to say one thing. So honestly, they don't need to understand, they just need to be there.

SPEAKER_02 35:56

Okay, so just existing, just seeing, yeah, witnessing us.

SPEAKER_00 36:00

If you can just somehow observe and listen and watch, because the knowing is not that they cannot know more, they cannot adapt their mindsets. I genuinely believe they they can. But there's a part of it that you need, it's like a check and balance. Yeah. But it's the can you just let me exist? Can you just let me be? Yeah. Yeah. Can you genuinely let me be? Yeah. Um and I I I don't know because the la I had a conversation with my mom just recently about like just be there and offer what you can do. Yeah. But when you ask me, I told her when you ask me those questions, makes me second guess myself as if I haven't done the work. Yeah. And we were just talking about like life things in general. Yeah. Um, so I just tell them to just witness us. Oh, be witnesses, be witnesses, compassionate, joyful witnesses. And if you can't be a compassionate, joyful witness, please put on your glasses, close the shades, be happy somewhere else.

SPEAKER_02 37:02

Please. Be happy somewhere else. And the reality of it is that, you know, being raised between two cultures or three cultures, like in your case, you know, it means constantly, you know, building bridges inside of yourself too, right? As a person, right? And sometimes that bridge might feel shaky because, you know, the the the elders don't want to go sit down and close the blinds and just, you know, do their thing. But it also means that you get to create something beautiful. And it sounds like you have created something really, really beautiful within yourself. And and and I just love that for you. I love that you get to experience yourself and allow yourself to be, right? And so thank you so much for for joining me for this conversation. And I hope that you all have enjoyed this as much as I have enjoyed this.

SPEAKER_00 37:48

Saying it out loud has been cathartic.

SPEAKER_02 37:50

Oh, I love that. I love that. So we will be back with another episode here. And I'm Dr. Phoebe, and this is between two worlds of Dr. Phoebe, where identity, healing, uh, culture, the whole thing, you know, we try to figure out how we can meet in the middle. So thank you.

SPEAKER_00 38:05

Thank you so much so much for having me.

SPEAKER_02 38:08

I appreciate you, girl. So, guess what? We are opening up some slots for a sponsorship. If you've been watching or listening to this podcast and you've been enjoying it as much as we have been enjoying recording it, I would love to invite you to consider sponsoring us. You can reach out to me at consult at phoebraccallmft.com. That's consult at phoebrackle lmft.com. We have a wide range when it comes to our audience, and we would love for our audience to hear about you, your service, or your product.

SPEAKER_01 38:54

Thank you so much.