Fluent in Three Languages and Emotional Suppression

What if you’ve become so good at adapting to everyone else’s expectations… that you’ve forgotten who you are?

In this episode, Dr. Phebe Brako sits down with author, finance professional, and Stories Beyond Borders host Urmi Hossain for an honest conversation about growing up between cultures, chasing success, and searching for an identity that feels like home.

They unpack what it means to be fluent in multiple languages but struggle to express your own emotions, the pressure immigrant children face to prioritize stability over self-discovery, and why so many high-achieving immigrant daughters secretly battle guilt when choosing themselves.

They also explore:

Why success doesn’t automatically lead to self-worth

How code-switching can shape your identity

The hidden emotional labor of constantly adapting

What self-love looks like beyond motivational quotes

The immigrant habits that never leave you, no matter how successful you become

If you’ve ever felt too much for one culture, not enough for another, or wondered which version of yourself is the “real” one, this conversation is for you.

Because sometimes the hardest language to learn isn’t English, French, or Bengali…

It’s learning how to speak honestly about your own needs.

🎙️ Tune in for a conversation that will leave you laughing, reflecting, and maybe texting your sibling, “Did they secretly interview our family?”

Learn more about Urmi and her amazing work at https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCZoiI0SGU0Xo9_lNjtLWtgg and follow her on IG @urmamio

Send your questions and topic ideas to consult@phebebrakolmft.com or slide in my DM's on Instagram @drphebebrako

Remember we can only grow our audience with your support. Please share with your community!

Transcript

SPEAKER_05 0:00

I do think um the issue of uh stereotypes is quite big. I think we just tend to stereotype people and put them in boxes. I think if someone looks a certain way, we're just automatically saying, okay, this person is from X, Y, and Z. But honestly, there are layers and layers of person's identity. Like even myself, like people just look at me and assume, and I'm like, no, that's not just it. There is a lot more than that. So don't please don't put me in a box. I think people have this tendency. I think people need to be a bit more open-minded and be more curious, especially with the questions that they ask. Yeah. Because you know, even uh simple questions such as where are you from? It's very difficult to answer sometimes. Very difficult. Because we like I personally do not know what that means. It doesn't mean where I grew up, does it mean where my parents are from? Does it mean the country where I study? Does it mean the country where I I've been living? Does it mean the country where I've been working like from? Like, what does it mean? Is it my passport? Because that that it changes.

SPEAKER_06 1:04

Okay, you know, yeah, you're making a really important point here. Therapist, immigrant daughter, and someone who has spent far too much of her life explaining to immigrant parents that boundaries are not disrespect. Okay. So today's episode is one that I've been looking forward to a lot for a very long time because we're going to be talking about something that so many immigrants and children of immigrants are experiencing, but they don't always have the language for identity. Not just where you're from, not just where you live, but more of who you've become and who you become when you're constantly navigating different cultures, expectations, language, and also versions of yourself. Many of us grew up learning to adapt, right? We learned how to do some code switching. We learned what versions of ourselves worked when we were at school, when we went to church, when we went to the mosque, what version also worked at home, and what version kept everybody happy. But somewhere along the line, or somewhere along the way, we started asking questions like, who am I when I am not adapting? So my guest today is someone who has spent a great deal of time exploring that question. Umi Hussein is an author, a speaker, finance professional. Ooh, can I hold on to that finance professional? Like, Umi, it sounds like you you you chose the profession that the parents were, you know, hoping for, right? And um is also the host of um the podcast Stories Beyond Borders. And through her work and her writing, she does a lot of exploration around identity, belonging, self-worth, and what it means to build a life that reflects who you actually, who you truly, truly, truly are. So Urmi, welcome to the show.

SPEAKER_05 3:28

Thank you. Thank you for having me.

SPEAKER_06 3:31

Yeah, yeah. Also, I want to make sure that I'm pronouncing your name properly. You are. Perfect. All right, sweet, sweet. Okay. So before we get into the deep stuff, you know, I I have to ask, what is something about you that would surprise people who only know your professional accomplishments? Which by the way, you you have a lot of wonderful accomplish accomplishments.

SPEAKER_05 3:54

That's a very good question. I'm I'm not sure. I feel like I'm an open book, to be honest. Yeah. Um, I I think um I probably have not discovered them myself uh when it comes to when it comes to that question. What is something that people do not know about me besides of my accomplishment? I I think I'm quite open about that. And yeah, I think I have nothing to hide.

SPEAKER_06 4:21

Yeah. Well, good for you. And and I mean that in itself is is a level of congruence that not many of us are able to have in in some ways. Like I think about myself and I I think about how some of my students, whenever we're in class, something might come up and I talk about, oh yeah, you know, so I was playing my video game and they look at me like, wait, Dr. Phoebe, you you play video games? Like, what? Huh? You know, because people look at me and they don't really think about that. Sometimes people are surprised when I tell them that I was a praise and worship leader at my church that I sing. Um, because a lot of times people will maybe hear me in the hallways at the office, just love singing random Michael Jackson songs and you know, things like that. So sometimes, you know, there's those secret talents or things that we we do without even thinking about how people would perceive those things. And and I it's not even like intentional, you know. That sort of thing.

SPEAKER_05 5:18

Well, if I could add to it, but it's not not a secret, to be honest, because it's like pretty much out there. But people who do not know me, like based on on my social presence, if they meet me for the first time and then we start talking and I tell them, Oh, I do boxing, I think that's probably like maybe a surprising element because I don't think they expect me to do that, and then they I probably look a certain way. I don't I probably do not look like I'm a boxer. I think they have a certain ideology of what a boxer looks like, especially a female boxer, and then I'm I'm like, Yeah, I do boxing, so you better not mess up with me.

SPEAKER_06 5:59

See, yeah, huh? That's interesting. That is very that that's a great answer, too, by the way. That is great because I would not have thought about that, you know. And and I always I I love I love to to start here too, because social media and resumes are always going to tell us one story or like one aspect of of people, and we sometimes forget that there's always a whole human being behind all of those things, behind the the achievements, the accolades, the you know, all the the fancy schmanzy things, you know. And and speaking of of that, also as I was as I was saying that, I just also thought about the fact that I I love to dance in stores, like they have a really good song going. I'm that random person that you see dancing, and you know, sometimes I get my kids to even join in with me. So if you see a mom dancing with her kids at five below, it's it's probably me. So um, but but speaking of that, you know, you've lived across cultures, uh, you've lived across different languages.

SPEAKER_05 7:04

You speak how many languages do you speak? I right now I actually say almost five, and the almost is actually my Spanish, which is a work in progress, and I do actually actively work on it. That's the one that I'm like I'm taking classes, conversation classes. I would say almost five.

SPEAKER_06 7:24

Nice, nice, nice. Okay, okay. So yeah, so you've you've done the things, right? Across cultures, across languages, identities. Was there ever a moment for you or me where you realize I've spent so much time adapting to everyone else that I am not fully sure who I am anymore? And if so, how did that connect to like expectations of your family or what your parents were expecting of you, you know, growing up?

SPEAKER_05 7:51

Yes, I definitely felt that way for many, many years. And I think I felt mostly that way when I was a teenager and even in my early adulthood. I think because of um of the different cultures I was I was uh growing up in, and also but also the different cultures that I was exposed to. I feel like I was always adapting myself based on the people that I had around me. So when I was around, let's say my Italian friends, I was a certain way. When I was um among Bengali people, I was a certain way. And when I was with people that were completely different, I was a different way. Like I feel like I was never truly being myself and probably trying to fit an ideology based on people's expectations, and I think it took me a while to figure that out that I cannot leave based on what people think of me, but I have to leave based on how I feel about myself, and so it took a while to be honest. I I think it's I really had to come to that realization that I'm not being my most self, and it's important that I can say things freely, so yeah.

SPEAKER_06 8:56

Wow, that is you said that so so so so beautifully, and and I can't help but wonder if maybe this realization was a gradual realization or if it was like a sudden realization, you know.

SPEAKER_05 9:11

No, it was more it was more gradual, yeah, it was very, very gradual until like it hit a peak point, and I was like, okay, enough of this, enough of like you know, being portrayed based on what people want me to be, enough of like seeking external validation, and it's it's okay to put myself first in that case and just prioritize my identity, and but it took a while. I think the peak point really just um came really after afterwards in my life, especially after moving to Canada, and people asking me questions such as where are you from? Who are you? People labeling me, people like defining me sometimes based on my look and my accent. And I I don't I didn't fully like that. I think um I think I did I did I didn't like that people had some certain ideology and biases based on what they would hear and the accent that they would hear. And I was like, you know what? You're not gonna decide for me, I'm gonna decide for myself.

SPEAKER_06 10:12

Yeah, yeah, that is that is so real. And and you mentioned moved to Canada. Where did you move from?

SPEAKER_05 10:19

From Italy. I moved from Italy to Canada and currently based in uh Montreal, which is a melting pot, so many cultures, it's crazy. Hmm.

SPEAKER_06 10:30

I've heard that about Montreal, and I I also I still haven't made it to Canada, you know. I I I'm all over the place, but it's so funny that I'm just a couple of hours' drive away from Canada from BC and I still haven't I still haven't gone out there. It's just I don't I'm not even sure what that is about, but that is yeah, yeah. I I I've heard that about Montreal, and maybe one of these days I might come up and you know pay y'all a visit, grace y'all with my presence.

SPEAKER_05 10:58

Yes, exactly. You should. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_06 11:01

I'll come, I'll come out there. What what is like the biggest cuisine that is when it comes to food in Montreal?

SPEAKER_05 11:09

So I think uh for Montreal, if you definitely come here, you have to try the poutine. I don't know if you have ever heard of the poutine, but it's a thing of Montreal, it's a thing of Quebec. Don't have poutine in other provinces because they're not known for that. And so poutine is basically French fries, and then you have cheese on top. It's like it's um it's called card cheese, I think. It's like a very squishy cheese that you put on top of the uh the french fries, and then you you put it this gravy sauce, and it's supposed to like melt the cheese. It's junk food, but it's actually so good, it's comfort food. You have to try this when you come to Manchiang.

SPEAKER_06 11:50

Okay, okay. You know, that reminds you of chili cheese fries here in the US, and I hate that. I I don't, I don't know, I've never understood the the appeal. I've never understood, you know. I'm sure people are gonna listen and be like, what? How would you not like chili cheese fries? Because people like it. And I don't, I don't understand. Because that was one of the things that I really struggled with when I moved to America as an immigrant. They put cheese on everything, right? They put cheese on everything. But what you're describing, I think, you know, might be something that might be worth a try just because you said.

SPEAKER_05 12:21

Well, I love cheese, to be honest. I put cheese in everything too.

SPEAKER_06 12:28

I'm getting there. I'm getting there. No, I've I've I've I've I've developed a love for cheese. Once I figured it out and figured out which ones I like, yeah.

SPEAKER_05 12:37

Yeah, cheese is so good. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_06 12:41

Until it starts to mess with your stomach, you know.

SPEAKER_05 12:43

Yeah, that that is also true.

SPEAKER_06 12:45

Yeah, so so so back to what we you know we were talking about. I think that so many immigrant children become experts at adaptation before they even get the opportunity to explore what is my identity, right? What do I even want my identity to to be? And and as you're talking about the different cultures that you know you've you've had to adapt to and the different people that you're around makes me think of how even for me, I find myself speaking in in different like tonations and and accents when I'm with different people. And and I caught that when when I was as as I've as I was, I was it maybe like after college or something, as I was getting older, I just started noticing that about myself. And yeah, so we just we start becoming these experts. And then one day you just, you know, for me, one day you just realize, like, wait, how do I actually even sound? How do I want to sound? You know, and and that brings me also to something that I've noticed in so many families. A lot of immigrant children or immigrant kids are taught to chase stability first and then identity later, if if they're even given that choice, right? You you're supposed to get the degree, get the job, get the financial security, and then maybe you can think about what fulfillment means or what fulfillments could look like. And for you, you have built a successful career in finance, right? You've earned all these elite designations and you still chose to publicly talk about belonging, identity, and and self-worth. Did that did that feel rebellious in any way?

SPEAKER_05 14:20

It did, and I kind of like it. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, yeah, I I actually do because I don't well, basically, I wasn't really I know that my parents wanted me to choose, you know, stability about over everything else. And I know that um they didn't really, I would say, push me to go to finance, it was my decision, but definitely they wanted me to have a very stable career and so forth. And I just, you know, especially when I was a kid, I was like this obedient little girl who just really followed whatever I was told that I never questioned anything. And then what happened is uh of course, now that I'm like speaking about a lot of these things on social media, having published my book, having my podcast, I do feel like I'm quite rebellious. And true, like uh honestly speaking, no one from my family knows about that, and not even my parents, so I just talk about it um as if as if it was really like this is my time to do it, and so I openly talk about it and I do feel rebellious because I was not that kind of girl when I was uh when I was a kid.

SPEAKER_07 15:26

Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_06 15:28

Yeah, and and why was it important for you to tell these stories publicly too or speak up about these topics?

SPEAKER_05 15:35

Uh because I feel like we we just grew up believing that we just have to be a certain way, and there is only one way of living your life, but I feel like if I am going to talk about this more and more and more, more people can relate to me, more people can also do the same thing about speaking up about their struggles and so forth. And I know that by speaking up about all of these things, I realize that there are other like people in the same boat as me. Yeah, I just I I just watched the movie like pretty recently about this boy who was born and raised in Italy as well, and his parents are from Bangladesh, and he comes from this traditional Muslim family. And it was so interesting when I watched this movie because he's like, Oh, is it gonna be a scene if I start dating um this this Italian girl? Like, is this gonna be considered a scene? And I remember like I used to think that too when I was a kid, when I was like a teenager, and so whether it's me or someone else, we all go through the same struggle, and so maybe for the external world, this like looks still, it's like, oh, what's the problem with that? But it is a big deal for South Asian community, like to do something that it's not like outside of your community, to start dating at a young age, to do things, you know, like it's it's really forbidden, really. It's it's forbidden, and so it was interesting to to see how more and more people are speaking up.

SPEAKER_06 17:05

Yeah, yeah. Now, is your family from Bangladesh?

SPEAKER_05 17:09

Yes, both of them.

SPEAKER_06 17:11

I see, I see, I see. And oof, I mean, there's so many layers to that because I'm as I was speaking, as you were speaking, I'm just thinking to myself, huh? I don't even know what the word for dating is in my native language. I don't we just we have a word for marriage, which is R A. And I don't know if we have anything. I I'll have to ask my mother because I don't know that that's even that's even a concept, you know, that we we even we even have, you know, and and yeah, you bring up some really important points here about how sometimes we think we're experiencing something all by ourselves, and then we start to speak up, and then all of a sudden we realize, oh, I'm not the only one experiencing this. Oh, I'm actually not alone. And you're right, I think even for me as a therapist, that is one of the reasons why I love to share all of my different experiences too, especially on social media and in public, for people to understand that mental health is something that everyone has and we have to prioritize that. And so if people are having struggles with depression, anxiety, you know, all the different things that we go through in in life, that they're not alone. That even those of us who have gone to school and have all the degrees and have all the experience and the trainings and the certifications, we also have mental health struggles too, you know.

SPEAKER_05 18:33

Yes, yes, and I'm with you on that. And even mental health, it's a taboo topic in a lot of this, in a lot of the cultures around the world. No one talks about it. And it's uh it's like mental health, you are going through depression. What's what's that? You know, like no one speaks about it, no one is educated about that, that they just think that oh, you just it's you just had a bad day and that's it, and you just you know, yeah, just get over it.

SPEAKER_00 18:57

We're done.

SPEAKER_05 18:58

Yeah, exactly.

SPEAKER_06 18:58

Yeah, yeah, just get over it. It's not that serious, you know. Yeah, uh, yeah. So and I think also, you know, many people who will be listening to this are realizing that success and self-discovery don't always happen at the same at the same pace, right? You can have one completely figured out while you are struggling with the other, and and it's part of life. You know, it's it's just part of the human experience. So I mean you speak multiple languages, uh, you've lived in different countries. Do you feel like your personality changes depending on the language or culture that you're operating in and which version of yourself feels the most like home?

SPEAKER_05 19:46

So it's a question that I was asked many times, and I'm still asked that question. I don't know if I have a complete answer, and I'm not even sure if my answer is the right one. I do think that there is a different side of me that comes out when I speak in Italian, and that's the that's a language that makes me feel like I am at home. Um, I feel like I can really be myself, especially like after all the years that have passed. I feel like I am my most self among my Italian friends, and I feel like there is a more allowed side of me that comes out. Whereas when I am, let's say, speaking in English, I think there is a more professional side that comes out. And I think it also because of the fact that I use like, let's say, uh English more on a like professional level and like in the corporate job. I feel like it's the same thing with French as well. And with Bengali as well, I feel like there is a different side that comes, it's it's more like a rough sometimes, I feel like. Um, so yeah, I think I I don't know if the personality changes. I think there is a different side of us that comes out, but our personality stays the same. Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 20:53

Yeah, there's a different, I like that. There's a different side of us that that comes out. And and I can definitely relate to that. And as as as I'm even saying this out loud, I I don't speak as many languages as you, right? I I speak a con uh or tree, which is a Ghanaian language, and I speak English. Um, I'm conversational in French, and I just picked up my Duolingo. Um, maybe uh it's been how many? I think it was maybe sometime last year, I picked it back up because we learned French in in Ghana, because we're surrounded by French-speaking countries, and so it was part of our educational curriculum to speak, to learn French. Um, I wish I had taken it a little bit more seriously, but I I didn't. And so now that I'm older, you know, I've gone back and you know, I'm relearning some of it. And I I I think about you know, some of the other Ganyan languages that I am able to speak or understand. Uh, there's a few other dialects that I speak, and I'm as I'm realizing that. The core is the same, right? Um yeah, it's it's the same. I also and I think part of it is also becoming more and more comfortable in who I am. Because if you'd asked me this question a couple of years ago, I would have probably had a different answer because I felt like I was code switching whenever I was amongst my Ghanaian friends, and I was worried about how they were going to perceive me. And I I was worried about, oh, your accent, you know, you sound too American. And so I would try to make sure that I I emphasize certain letters when I when I was speaking because I didn't want to come off as a certain way. And there was so much just going on in my mind. And as I've gotten comfortable with where I am, I mean, I what they see is what they get now, you know.

SPEAKER_05 22:47

Yeah, nice.

SPEAKER_06 22:48

And yeah, and and and it's been it's been a very beautiful transition just being able to like show up as my as myself and and bringing people joy and making people laugh. And and I'm also realizing that sometimes like different languages unlock different emotions also for me and the ways in which like I show up. And so when you talk about your Italian friends, like, yeah, actually, yeah, there's a difference there. And and I imagine that you know folks who are listening can relate to that too.

SPEAKER_05 23:13

Yes, yeah, for sure, for sure. And um, yeah, and there's like a different, like I think you just spoke about like accent. I I know that I was always trying to imitate the American accent, especially because I especially during my teenage year, I would watch MTV, and I would watch all these American shows, yes in the States, like Day Heels, Laguna Beach, um, like MTV.

SPEAKER_01 23:44

I was like, this is oh, yes, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_05 23:47

And I was like, this is how I want to sound, but now I'm like, why was I even thinking that I should just keep my accent and be proud of the way I sound? But it took me a while to come to that realization as well. Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 23:59

Yeah, we used to watch uh some of those shows when I was younger. Cribs was one of my favorite shows, and I also went to an American school. Um, I would say, yeah, it was American school, it was an international school, but I was also surrounded by people who were from so many different countries. A lot of the expats brought their kids to that school too. So then there was this like mixture of different accents, but then the American one was the was the big one, right? That was the coveted one. And so I've always had, I would say, I would say that I don't sound, I don't always sound like a typical Ghanaian. Not that, you know, not that Ghanaians are monolith or anything like that. No, different people from different parts of the country are going to sound differently. Um, and also we just have this, I call it the blessing, where sometimes when you just hear somebody speaking, you're like, ah, this person from Ghana. I I know, I know they're from Ghana, you know.

SPEAKER_05 24:56

So yeah, yeah. And I feel the same way. I feel the same way. Like just a few weeks ago, I was in Morocco, and then um this lady comes comes up to me. She's of course speaking to me in in English, and she's like, Oh, do you know if this bank accepts like a credit card or do they accept credit cards to like withdraw money? I said, and the moment I heard I heard her, I was like, Are you Italian? And then we just started to speak Italian because I recognize the accent. So I like this is why we need to keep our accent because it helps us recognize the people that are like similar to us.

SPEAKER_06 25:32

Yeah, yeah. Oh, yeah, that's so beautiful. Yeah, you do recognize people, and sometimes you can even tell by the facial features too, yeah. People are from, and um, and and as we have all these like different accents within us and different, you know, emotions and whatever. I don't know. Sometimes I don't know about you, but sometimes it feels like I'm running like several different operating systems at once. Really. So so um, but yeah, moving on, you know, there's so many immigrant daughters who have become high-achieving adults, myself included, you included, especially. Um, we become these high-achieving adults, and and I'm really proud of us. I'm proud of how far we've come and how far we continue to go. But some of us secretly struggle with guilt when it comes to choosing ourselves. And it's not because we don't love our families, but it's because we have, and I'm including myself in this because this is something that I struggle with, but we've spent so many years being responsible for everybody else. So I'm curious for you, what what did self-love actually look like beyond you know the the IG quotes version of it? The Instagram quotes.

SPEAKER_05 26:51

Yeah, I think so. Here's the thing I don't think I even knew what the term self-love really meant. I I didn't even think there was such a thing as self-love, because I grew up thinking that my job is really to take care of everyone, loving everyone else, but never no one ever teaches you that you should love yourself first, and I really had a lot of struggle in understanding what this really meant. And um, as you mentioned at the beginning, boundaries, which is again another thing that I was not really taught about because I I like I I grew up thinking there's no such thing as boundary. I didn't even know what boundary meant. But the more I think I spoke about all of the struggles and I spoke about these things with a lot of like people coming from different with different backgrounds, I finally understood what self-love really meant. And for me, self-roll self-love really means it means many different things, like putting yourself first, uh celebrating yourself. Uh it means being compassionate with yourself. Like, I know that I'm like so like hard on myself for so many things. Like, if something goes wrong, I'm just beating up myself. Like, I'm like, why did I not do this wrong? But I learned to give myself grace. I think that's something that I was never doing that for myself. Like I think it's so easy to like say those things to a friend, but when it comes to yourself, you don't do that. So I feel like I learned to give myself grace. Don't feel bad about something if it went uh a wrong way. Uh maybe you know you you failed something, maybe you did something wrong at work. It's okay, you know, it's okay tomorrow, it's gonna be a better day. So I'm telling those things to myself, and I think that comes from the fact that I learned what self-love means, and it's really about being more compassionate towards yourself, yes, and to appreciate who you are and also celebrating yourself, which is so important.

SPEAKER_06 28:43

I I just had that conversation with my son this this week, and we were my my seven-year-old, and we were talking about how some of the language that we use with ourselves we wouldn't dare use with other people because we love them. And so, how much more ourselves? And I think one of the things that people forget is that we cannot continue to give people things that we don't even know what it looks like if you don't know what self-love is, or if you don't know if you don't understand what self-love is, how are you really going to be able to love others? You know, and I I've I've read um Bell Hook's book, All About Love, and it's really shifted the way that I even look at the concept of of love and how I thought I understood what love was, only to realize, oh no, there's there's a more depth to this. And and even in that love, sometimes it goes hand in hand with boundaries. And I don't know for you, but you know, I think about boundaries that are kind of hard to set, especially when it comes to our families and our roles as immigrant daughters. And I don't know if maybe there's some boundaries that you have found are the hardest to set.

SPEAKER_05 30:05

Yeah, I I think uh boundaries has been really hard for me to really implement. And I had to read the book as as well about how to put boundaries with your family members. And I really had to read deeper about what boundaries meant because again, you grew up in a in a in a community where your time is everyone's time. Yeah, if you have if if someone invites you to something, you have to say yes automatically. Um you just have to pretty much say yes to everything and please other people, but I think boundaries you have to put them, especially with your family members, because they are the ones who like step on it, and there and you also have to make sure that they are reinforced because I think it's one thing putting them, but it's another thing reinforcing them, yeah. Um I think a lot of it came again with a lot of sense of guilt at the beginning because I was like, I'm I think I just felt like I was a bad daughter, I feel like I was a bad person, and you know, you also grew up thinking that you cannot hurt anyone, like your job is really to make sure that everyone is happy and everyone is at peace. But who's giving you your own peace? And so for me, like for me, like to say no and be like, yeah, I cannot do this today, or I cannot come has been really the hardest because I could see people's reactions of not being satisfied with my answer, but I really had to let go of how people were feeling because it's not my job to fix that, you know. They are responsible with how they feel, that's not my job, and I just have to protect my energy, so I really had to learn that like protecting my energy and my well-being, which is not it's it's not really thought in many cultures.

SPEAKER_06 31:51

And also when it comes to boundaries, it's it's a dread, dreaded word in so many different cultures, but it starts internally too, right? You have to make that decision. Like what sometimes people think set say, oh, I'm setting a boundary, they forget that it actually starts internally. And so internally, what an example that would be I I'm not I'm not going to be moving my plans for for people, right? If I have plans, I'm not going to move them. And so that's going to include if you come up to me with same-day plans of, hey, Auntie is having a party uh and you're at, oh, when? Oh, it's today at five, right? You've had you've set that thing, that boundary in your mind already, and you can just say, Oh, I'm not going to be able to make it. What do you mean you're not going to be able to make it? Well, because I wasn't given advan advanced notice, right? And so I'm not going to be able to make it because the boundary in your mind is that I'm not going to be shifting my plans for the sake of the family. Now, this is where sometimes we we get a little stuck and then the boundaries end up being really rigid. Well, what if you don't have anything going on at 5 p.m.? Right? You get to say, okay, you know what? Typically I don't do same-day plans, but today at 5 p.m. I don't have anything going on. So I'm going to allow myself to go. Right? I'm going to allow myself to maybe go a little later. But another important distinction is that, you know, self-love, self-love sounds really beautiful. It sounds like an amazing thing, but it's going to be beautiful and wonderful and amazing until it requires us disappointing someone, disappointing our parents, disappointing our family. And then suddenly it just gets really, really uncomfortable.

SPEAKER_05 33:29

It does. It does get uncomfortable, especially because you don't want to disappoint the people that you care the most. But I I also think that our parents grew up with a different mindset, and we need to accept that. And they also have to accept our generation and how we are growing up.

SPEAKER_03 33:50

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 33:52

And really, I think there's so much pressure on you if your job is really just to make everyone happy. Because I also had to learn about not good enough. That's a that's a common terminology that I hear is that you can reach a certain level, but then once you're there, again it's not enough. Like it's never, never enough. It's like, what is it that I'm supposed to be doing then?

SPEAKER_06 34:17

Oh, yeah. And and and that's why this podcast exists too, because when you talk about parents understanding, that is one of the reasons why it's been such a pleasure having the different perspectives. You know, I've had my mom on for a couple of episodes. I had my mentor on for an episode. You know, there's all these different parents that are also, you know, sharing some of their thoughts so that we can understand them better, you know. And so that's why I think this has been such a pleasant experience, just you know, doing this podcast, meeting people like you and having these conversations too. And you have a podcast too, right? And it's called uh Stories Beyond Borders.

SPEAKER_05 34:58

That's right. I also have a podcast. That's right. And it's called uh Stories Beyond Borders, and it's a podcast about uh immigration stories, which I think it is so important to have that conversation. Yeah, I think as immigrants, we go to specific struggles, which is often trying to integrate, trying to fit in, trying to assimilate, sometimes even forgetting our origins. We want to give up on that identity, home identity, because we just want to be, you know, from that new country, or sometimes we want to be very Canadian, we want to be very American. But yeah, I think we should celebrate our origins, our diversity. It's part of our storytelling, and this is why I have so many guests where we talk about stories of immigration because a lot of them move because they don't have a choice, like they really don't have a choice. It's not because we want to, it's because we just can't live anymore in our home country, and so it's interesting to see the different perspectives, and I I really enjoy the the conversations.

SPEAKER_06 36:02

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. That is that is so beautifully said. And what what is a conversation about immigration or or identity that you think that society still handles very orally or maybe a little too superficially?

SPEAKER_05 36:17

I I do think um the issue of uh stereotypes is quite big. I think we just tend to stereotype people and put them in boxes. I think if someone looks a certain way, we're just automatically saying, okay, this person is from X, Y, and Z. But honestly, there are layers and layers of that person's identity, like even myself, like people just look at me and assume, and I'm like, no, that's not just it. There is a lot more than that. So don't please don't put me in a box. I think people have this tendency. I think people need to be a bit more open-minded and it and be more curious, especially with the questions that they ask. Yeah, because you know, even uh simple questions such as where are you from? It's very difficult to answer sometimes, and very difficult because we like I personally do not know what that means. It doesn't mean where I grew up, does it mean where my parents are from? Does it mean the country where I study? Does it mean the country where I I've been living? Does it mean the country where I've been working like from? Like, what does it mean? Is it my passport? Because that that it changes.

SPEAKER_06 37:22

Okay, you know, yeah, you're making a really important point here. When people ask the question, you know, where are you from? It's yeah. I I've personally been been leaning a little bit more towards, you know, where's your family from? If I'm trying to understand some of those, the nuances and things like that. That's where I've been leaning a little bit more towards. And I don't know if maybe like that's a I don't know, how does that question land for you?

SPEAKER_05 37:48

Uh it was um, it was quite, I would say that that answer changed throughout the years. Um, I think at the beginning I would just choose one country, like I would say I'm from Italy, and people would just stare at me and be like, Are you sure? Because you don't look Italian. And then I was like, Okay, I'm gonna just change the next time they ask me this question. I'm just gonna say I'm from Bangladesh. But then even that, they would just stare at me because they will ask me, Oh, so when did you move from Bangladesh? I was like, No, actually, I didn't move from there. I actually moved from Italy, and then I have to go back and tell them how I grew up in Italy, how I was born in Italy. Like it's it, it just it's just so difficult. So now I just say I am Italian by birth, Bengali by blood, and that's it. If they get it, if they get it good, if they don't get it, that's their thing.

SPEAKER_06 38:34

That's that's only you have to figure that out. That that's yeah, that's a nice, that's a nice way to find your your own style and your own wording and your own meaning also. And and I love asking that because sometimes some of the most uh important stories like yours, you know, they don't necessarily fit neatly into that headline, right? Or that or that stereotype, you know, when somebody asks a question of, oh, you know, like, oh, where are you from? Well, you know, for me, I can say I'm from Ghana, right? Simple boom, boom, that's it. But then for people who have lived in different countries or were born in different countries, and you know, it's just so it there's so much complexity around it. And I think that's one of the things that makes it really beautiful, too.

SPEAKER_05 39:15

Yeah, yeah, I agree, I agree.

SPEAKER_06 39:18

So um, I have a bit of a rapid fire section here that I've been kind of creating as as we go. And so I'm gonna ask you a few quick questions and just answer with the first thing that comes to mind. Okay, so got it. What food instantly reminds you of home?

unknown 39:33

Pasta.

SPEAKER_06 39:35

Pasta, pasta, okay, okay, okay. All right, nice, nice. Yeah, I love pasta too. What piece of advice from your family has aged the best?

SPEAKER_05 39:45

Uh, probably that one dollar makes makes a huge difference. I think it just stayed with me the longest. Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 39:54

Wow, wow, okay. Well, let's talk about the opposite. What piece of advice would you say has aged the worst?

SPEAKER_05 40:01

What will people say? I grew up with that uh expression. Okay, yeah, okay. I hate it. I hate that expression. I just hate it.

SPEAKER_06 40:08

Yeah, I think there's a book by that title too, or something along those lines.

SPEAKER_05 40:13

Yeah, it's um so there is a there is a movie, I think, and there is a book that says what will aunties say?

SPEAKER_06 40:21

Oh yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. I think I've seen that. Yeah, yeah. So what is what is one thing that younger Army would be proud of?

SPEAKER_05 40:30

Uh probably that I finally spoke up about many of these uh struggles that I've been going through. Okay, okay, okay.

SPEAKER_06 40:39

And what is one thing that younger Army would be shocked by?

SPEAKER_05 40:44

I would say probably that I'm I'm like rebellious.

SPEAKER_06 40:51

That answer does not surprise me as someone who grew up very compliant and obedient and all of those things. Yeah, yeah, that's awesome. That's awesome. So before before we wrap up, right, what is the most immigrant thing about you that no amount of professional success, education, or life experience has erased?

SPEAKER_05 41:11

So I like have a lot of like when I go out and everything, like I usually buy stuff and let's say maybe a sweater that I bought like 20 years ago and maybe doesn't fit me. I still keep it. It's our thing to like keep old clothes, even when they don't feature, because you're like, it could be reduced eventually, you know. And it's so immigrant of like of me of South Asian community, we just keep every single clothes that we buy.

SPEAKER_06 41:38

Yeah, yeah, yeah. That is so funny you say that because I actually still have a dress from high school that yeah, that I brought from Ghana here to the US. I still have it and I still wear it, you know. And honestly, I hope I hope that we never lose these parts. I really do. I really do because I think that these are some of like the little things that often connect us and keep us connected to where we're from.

SPEAKER_05 42:05

That I that is so right. I agree with you, and that's why I keep them because they bring me back to my bring me back to to my childhood, my teenage, they're my memories, they're part of me, you know, things that I grew up with. So no, that's why I keep them.

SPEAKER_06 42:20

Yeah, yeah, I love that for us. Oh Army, thank you so much for for joining me today. I've absolutely loved this this conversation. And I know that so many people who are going to be listening are going to see pieces of themselves in in your story. And I just it's it's really been an honor hearing your story today. And so for everyone who is who's listening, if you've enjoyed today's conversation, please make sure that you check out Army's um podcast, her work, her writing, um, her podcast is stories uh beyond borders. And I think it would be awesome to just make those those connections. And also, Army, if people are looking for you, where can they find you?

SPEAKER_05 43:00

They can definitely um look me up on LinkedIn. I'm pretty active, so it's Urmi Hossein. And if people want to purchase my book, it's called Discovering Your Identity, A Rebirth from Interational Struggle, which is available on Amazon and it's basically about the conversation that we just had about identity and finding our identity. And I am also involved with an organization called Women in Leadership, so they can just Google Women in Leadership Foundation Canada and find out more about the work that we do for women in in leadership.

SPEAKER_06 43:29

Perfect, perfect. And we'll have all of this information also in the in the show notes so that you all can um connect because it's really important that we amplify our voices and we share these resources. And so, as always, if this episode has made you think about somebody, please send it to them. Share it with your siblings, you know, your immigrant parents, share it with your friend who is really still trying to figure out where they belong and who they are and their identity and all the layers that come with it. And also remember that you don't have to choose between where you came from and who you're becoming. Honestly, you don't. Sometimes the the most beautiful thing we can do is learning how to hold both and existing in that bicultural space because we're worth it. So thank you so much for listening, and I will see you on the next episode. So, guess what? We are opening up some slots for a sponsorship. If you've been watching or listening to this podcast and you've been enjoying it as much as we have been enjoying recording it, I would love to invite you to consider sponsoring us. You can reach out to me at consult at phockle lmft.com.consult at phbbracklemft.com. We have a wide range when it comes to our audience, and we would love for our audience to hear about you, your service, or your product. Thank you so much.