Home Equity Investments Explained: The 500 Credit Score "Cheat Code" Nobody's Talking About | Ep. 9

Rates are back up, people aren't qualifying, and a brand-new loan product just changed the game. This week on First & Future Finance, Dibbs and Liam break down the Home Equity Investment (HEI) — the loan with no monthly payment, no interest rate, and a 500 credit score minimum — including real client stories, the actual math on a $300K house, and the catch you need to know before you sign.
We also get into the Road to Housing Act sitting unsigned in Washington, why home prices have outpaced income by 150% since 1985, the history of the 30-year mortgage, Japan's 10-year Treasury going vertical, and why the credit scoring system is a decade overdue for disruption.

New camera angles. Same energy. Episode 9.
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Topics: home equity investment, HEI loan, HEI vs HELOC, 500 credit score home loan, no payment home equity, Road to Housing Act, 30-year mortgage history, mortgage rates 2026, Japan 10-year treasury, credit score system, housing market update, foreclosure options, cash out refinance alternative
Educational content only — not financial advice. NMLS #2104127.

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Chapters
0:00 – The Deal That Almost Died at Clear to Close
2:59 – The Road to Housing Act: Help for Homeowners or Hidden Inflation?
9:26 – Rates Are Back Up (And Why They Don't Matter)
10:09 – Interest Rates 101: How Banks Really Make Money
11:06 – The Cheat Code: Home Equity Investments Explained
12:12 – From 50% Down to the 30-Year Mortgage: A Quick History
14:01 – HELOC vs HELOAN vs HEI: What Makes This Different
14:52 – Real Story: Stopping a Foreclosure With a 550 Credit Score
17:42 – The Math: What a $300K House Actually Gets You
19:53 – No Payments, No Interest — Here's the Catch
22:52 – Housing Update: Prices vs Income (The 150% Gap)
27:35 – The Chimps & Bananas Story: Why We Accept Taxes
31:53 – Credit Scores Are Broken — Should We Start Our Own Agency?
35:26 – Japan's 10-Year Treasury Just Went Vertical
43:50 – The Balloon Theory: 2008, The Big Short & What's Coming

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Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:00

But interest only. Podcast studio. First and future finance money.

SPEAKER_01 0:09

Welcome back.

SPEAKER_00 0:10

Welcome back. Yeah. It's been a long week, man. It has. I'm tired. It's only Thursday.

SPEAKER_02 0:17

Since last Thursday, I've had a deal in CTC. Clear to close. Okay. Taken out of clear to close for final review. Borrower went uh approved ineligible, which means they were no longer qualified for the loan.

SPEAKER_00 0:36

What caused that?

SPEAKER_02 0:37

Uh they spent some money that they shouldn't have spent. They got a truck. They did not buy a truck. Um, but they did move some money out of the account uh that they that you know the lender looked at. This is a purchase? Yeah, this is a purchase. Oh, okay. Yeah, yeah. So they moved some money out of the account. Um so it made it look like they didn't have enough money to close. So lender, you know, asked for an updated bank statement to, you know, show proof of funds to close. You know, they sent in their regular stuff. One PDF was attached to another, but it was two accounts. So unprofessional. It was actually an alarm reminding me to do this. But yeah, like so they uh uh the lender puts it in as approving, eligible. So we're we're thinking we're getting cleared to close, and you know, we're scheduling, and they're like, wait, wait, wait. Nobody's nobody's approved for this loan. There's they're they're not eligible to purchase. So we got that fixed. We lowered some some uh fees, shuffled some things around, balance with title, and we're gonna close. Awesome. We're gonna close. But you got scared for a little bit there. I was because like there's so much that could have happened that would have prevented this. Like if I was able to get them, you know, some down payment assistance, or uh if there was only some type of fund that covered closing costs, um if we can if we could get our government to sign bills and push them through, you know. Like what's so bad about that? What's so bad about helping everyday people?

SPEAKER_00 2:25

Well, no, all my money needs to go to other countries. All of my tax dollars should not be going to the people in my country. That's why would you think that? It's an awful thought. They got they got uh also boom, we got another camera angle now. We're pretty official. Forgot to mention that. So official.

SPEAKER_02 2:43

I don't know. It could does it does it lose lore if um if you if you tell them that we're switching camera angles? Maybe. Maybe, I mean, they'll see it, you know. Oh, it's gonna be so good. It's gonna be so good. We're coming up in the world. Episode nine, man. We're we're talking about uh, or at least I wanted to talk about this housing bill that that Trump won't sign.

SPEAKER_00 3:07

I didn't see a single thing about it, so I'm gonna learn with the audience right now and ask the questions. Hopefully, people want to know because I don't know anything about this.

SPEAKER_02 3:14

Yeah, so um the Road to Housing Act is something that was presented uh to Congress. Um gonna help everyday Americans, grants for homeowners um that are already in their houses or like fixing up the houses, um, getting things up to code. It's gonna help a lot of people who are in, you know, like fixed income situations, put a new roof on.

SPEAKER_00 3:42

Uh I hate to think like this. Where is the but like this is just how it is in a lot of uh I don't even want to say capitalist societies because what we have is like fake capitalism. But where is the profit incentive to do that for the people giving that money? Because there's gotta be a justification, there's gotta be a reason, they gotta get something out of it. That seems too good to be true, you know what I mean?

SPEAKER_02 4:05

Yeah, so the profit justification in my mind would come from we have something called FHFA. Okay, yeah, that funds all these these uh you know these mortgage-backed securities, yes, right? Yep. So if I have a better house, if I want to borrow against that house, wouldn't it help me if I had a house that was actually qualified for the funding?

SPEAKER_00 4:33

Okay, so I don't want again, I don't want to think this negatively. Is that not just pumping more money in to inflate the housing market to inflate the prices of those houses so there's more value in them? But how does that help someone get in? Well, actually, if then if you're also giving grants to people to get them into houses, is this not just a nice way of saying inflation? The wheels are turning. That's just what that's where my brain goes immediately.

SPEAKER_02 4:58

The wheels are turning. Is it always comes back to who's gonna pay for it, right?

SPEAKER_00 5:02

But that's why I own gold. If I protect myself from this exact situation hurting the dollar because now this is more dollars being printed in circulation, given to people, which yeah, it's real nice if you own a house. If you don't own a house, though, your dollar has lost so much value right there.

SPEAKER_02 5:18

Well, so here's it. That's the that's the catch 22 of it, right? Yes, the house is going to cost more dollars, or I'm gonna have to give more dollars to buy the house. But at the same time, why is this where the buck stops? Why is it that when we're talking about printing more money, when we're talking about uh, you know, doing something that's gonna help somebody, a homeowner that's in the house, yeah, trying to make it better for the next person or even better living standards for themselves, why is it who's gonna pay for that, but not, hey, Iran, we we think you're building nuclear weapons. We're gonna spend 300 billion over there. We're gonna print $300 billion for for Iran to uh you know, to to do whatever, to not build those weapons when we could be build using $300 billion to build our infrastructure at home.

SPEAKER_00 6:18

I mean, don't get me wrong, I think that like I'd rather if I had to pick between the two, I'd much rather have the money go to the Americans and the housing and grants for people for sure. But also, like the other end of that to me is like that is money that's just being parked somewhere that's that only hurts people who don't own houses and aren't and aren't in houses, and like if they don't qualify for that grant, that only hurts people with dollars. Um, it's great for people with with the houses with the infrastructure, that's amazing for sure. But the inflationary reaction to that isn't gonna go well, and then rates are gonna need to rise, which means it's gonna be more expensive to own those houses because the rates will need to rise with the inflation for that money to be still easily borrowable, borrowable, but not too easy where inflation gets high. But I guess the reason my brain goes there is I've just started reading The Wealth of Nations because I've been uh want to read that for a while, and one of the main things that's like talked about, or where I'm at right now at least, is that an economy is not held up by the standard of how much gold an empire has. This is from like 1776, I think the book was written.

SPEAKER_02 7:30

Um what they write it in fucking one of those feather pins?

SPEAKER_00 7:35

I'd probably it's 1776. I mean, that's the Declaration of Independence time, Constitution, that's same shit. But um, no, uh uh a um Empire's wealth is not held by their gold, is the whole theory. It's held by the money that's flowing in through their goods and services. Yeah, so if we're printing all that money, because that is what we're doing, we're printing money, and we're giving it as grants to American homeowners and inflating the housing economy while hurting the dollar, wouldn't it be even better to put that money into infrastructure? Because we gave all of our infrastructure manufacturing to China back with like Clinton and Reagan, more Clinton. So wouldn't it be better to build more manufacturing, to build more jobs, create more goods and services to then make more money that way and export more?

SPEAKER_02 8:19

That would be uh phenomenal, phenomenal rebuttal if we weren't already spending more money than we're bringing in.

SPEAKER_00 8:28

Also true.

SPEAKER_02 8:29

Yes, the GDP wasn't higher than than what I'm sorry, if the GDP wasn't lower than than the dollars that we're printing, that would make perfect sense. But I would argue, you know, if I'm happy at home, if my roof's not leaking because the government gave me some money instead of spending it overseas or on a new road, yeah, then I'm gonna be a better worker. I'm gonna produce more for the for the wages that I earn.

SPEAKER_00 8:58

That's true, but also I feel like we're just kicking the can down the road because kick it. Kick that shit, but that's what we always do. It's gonna crash one day. Like it's like that's what I'm saying.

SPEAKER_02 9:08

Why are we stopping here? Why is this the bill that's not getting stopped? If we kick everything else down the road, why not the one that's helping American people? Exactly.

SPEAKER_00 9:17

Okay, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 9:17

That's my point.

SPEAKER_00 9:18

That's a fair point.

SPEAKER_02 9:19

That's a very fair point. Man, uh, you know, some good news though. Yeah. Rates are, you know, we're still we're still at odds with uh with Iran. Um rates are back up to like I think six and a half.

SPEAKER_00 9:37

I think so. I haven't really looked recently. I've just kind of been I've been doing a lot of cash out business and HEIs. And yeah, HEIs, the rate doesn't matter because there isn't one. They're not even going off the tenure, they're basing it off the property, which I want to go more into HEIs in a second.

SPEAKER_02 9:49

Those are a cheat code.

SPEAKER_00 9:50

They're insane.

SPEAKER_02 9:51

Those are a cheat code. Like, I mean, honestly, we'll talk about that. We don't even have to talk about the rates. Everybody hates rates. We all agree.

SPEAKER_00 9:58

Rates don't matter. Rates are bad. Rates don't matter. I'm sorry. If you think the rate matters, no. What matters is your situation. Going back to that. Kicking the can down the road. Kicking the can down the road.

SPEAKER_02 10:08

Keep kicking it. But like interest, let's let's just explain the big the boogeyman right now. So uh interest rates are just the cost you guys pay to borrow money, right? That's the price.

SPEAKER_00 10:22

And the 10 year is the price that the banks are borrowing the money at, give or take.

SPEAKER_02 10:27

There you go. So obviously there has to be some margin there. The banks have to make money. They're getting money printed, and the Fed says, hey, we're gonna charge you this much for this money. The banks are wholesaling that money that they took back to you. You put money in the bank, they're giving you 0.01% or 4% APR while they're lending it out to other people at 5, 6, 7, 8, 9% interest.

SPEAKER_00 10:55

Yep, depending on how good or bad of a borrower you are, how specific your needs are.

SPEAKER_02 10:59

There you go. So the cheat code, Liam, is a new product that's come along.

SPEAKER_00 11:06

HEIs out how new are they? Because you've been in this industry a lot longer than me. I just heard about them about a month ago, two months ago.

SPEAKER_02 11:14

So HEIs have come up as a uh, and this happens every every couple years in in real estate and in the industry when when things are down, there are some big wigs that are like, hey, we need something new. We need something to get the dollars moving again, get people borrowing money so that we can stimulate the economy.

SPEAKER_00 11:34

And the economy is slow right now because one, I want to say a quarter of Americans have less than a 660 score, or 660 or less. So less people are qualifying for traditional mortgages at reasonable rates, but the 10 year can't come down because again, we're missing unemployment numbers and inflation's high, so it can't happen. And then um people just aren't qualifying. Like that's really just the bottom line is people aren't qualifying. So now the HEI is what I think is really nice, is the credit score minimum is like 500, which is crazy.

SPEAKER_02 12:04

Well, before you get into that, just like some some history on getting ahead of myself. Yeah, I'm excited. So, like the last innovation we have was what you were just talking about, the 30-year mortgage.

SPEAKER_00 12:17

Yeah, so which is I didn't know that's rare. Like, we're the only ones that do that. I think we talked about it.

SPEAKER_02 12:21

That's an American thing.

SPEAKER_00 12:22

It's crazy.

SPEAKER_02 12:23

That's that's an American. Everybody else, every five years, they got to refinance their house.

SPEAKER_00 12:28

Yep. And the all adjustable rates too.

SPEAKER_02 12:30

Yeah, so that that's that's the thing. Your your interest rate is based on how well your country is doing everywhere but here in the United States.

SPEAKER_00 12:39

Relative to the dollar.

SPEAKER_02 12:41

So this this concept of a 30-year mortgage before like the 1950s, people had to put 50% down on their house.

SPEAKER_00 12:49

Yeah, we could talk about that. Yeah, that's right.

SPEAKER_02 12:51

So you're talking, you're talking about, you're talking about I I hey, I'm a millennial. You just like we feel the struggle.

SPEAKER_00 12:59

We don't have 50% to put down.

SPEAKER_02 13:01

But exactly. We have to understand that our grandparents bought those homes. It wasn't for a nickel and and and two dilled pickles, all right? No, they put half the money down, and then the rest was a was a down payment or a uh a mortgage that they got for 15 years. Yep. They had to pay that house off. This new innovation came up, uh Roosevelt. Okay. After the Great Depression. He's like, hey, people can't afford houses. We're gonna extend that term out to 30 years. Yeah. 20 down, 30 years. 30 years. That was unheard of. Most recently, that's insane. Your president said, we're thinking about doing a 50-year mortgage. That's insane. That's insane. That's okay.

SPEAKER_00 13:50

I'll buy a house at 10.

SPEAKER_02 13:52

So here you go. So this was this is uh this is you know, three years in the maker, and we're hearing murmurs, and people are getting creative. The birth of the home equity investment. Okay, okay, so we have a hybrid program. We have everybody's heard of equity lines of credit, HELOCs. Yep, right loans. That's an adjustable rate that you borrow against the equity in your house. Then you got the HE loans, which is the fixed rate that you borrow against the equity in the house. Some genius said, Hey, what if we just gave people lump sums of money and didn't make them pay us back until the house gained value or they sold it?

SPEAKER_00 14:31

That was uh where I was getting ahead of myself, is what I love about it. And the way I explain it to clients is like, I don't like you are getting qualified as a borrower for sure, but you're secondary to the property. They're qualifying the property to make sure they want to invest in the home's equity.

SPEAKER_01 14:46

Yes.

SPEAKER_00 14:46

And then they're making sure you are a good enough borrower to where the house will sell or you will cash out refire. You have a plan of some kind. Like I've done two HEIs this week, not to cut you off. But um, one of them, this woman had cancer. Um, so she missed a lot of payments on her mortgage. She's in forbearance right now. She's going in foreclosure next month if we can't close a loan in time to get her the money she needs to pay them back. We're doing an HEI, she's got like a $550 score, getting $67,000 in her pocket. She only needs $20 to pay back the house to be out of foreclosure. Yeah. And she's about to be able to keep her house because of this HEI, where any other loan that you're gonna get right now, because of loan modifications or lates you have on mortgages, you won't qualify for a traditional loan. This is the only way that she's gonna be able to keep her house.

SPEAKER_02 15:34

Why wouldn't you qualify for a traditional loan?

SPEAKER_00 15:36

Well, if you have lates, what lender is gonna want to lend to you where the per the you themselves, you are the borrower, are the primary thing they're qualifying rather than the property.

SPEAKER_02 15:48

So you're talking about the the bank overrides, yeah, the overlays. Exactly.

SPEAKER_00 15:52

So because the bank's not gonna lend to you if you have late payments, they're gonna be like, you're not a good borrower. But the AGI companies don't care as long as the house is good. Ah as long as you have a 500 cred score.

SPEAKER_02 16:05

Oh, you know what? Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, you're right. Because I tried to I tried to take somebody there that was under a 500.

SPEAKER_00 16:12

Yep, 500 minimum.

SPEAKER_02 16:14

But I mean, 500 in the in the lending space is like bottom of the barrel. Like there are a lot of banks that will kick you out. Like they they'll leave you in the lobby if you have a five, if they find out you have a 500 credit score before you talk to them.

SPEAKER_00 16:28

Or they'll give you a 25% loan minimum, like per personal loan, something.

SPEAKER_02 16:31

They're gonna hoe you just under usury. So it's like if I have a home and I have I've been in that house for five years.

SPEAKER_00 16:44

Yep.

SPEAKER_02 16:44

I bought in what 2021? 2021-ish?

SPEAKER_00 16:47

It's five years.

SPEAKER_02 16:48

Let's say I try to refinance my house, right? I want some uh equity out of the house.

SPEAKER_00 16:56

Yes.

SPEAKER_02 16:57

I wanna, I wanna, I wanna buy a boat.

SPEAKER_00 16:59

All right, yeah. Take money out by a boat.

SPEAKER_02 17:02

You know what I'm saying? I wanna I want to buy a boat. I've been in this house five years. I bought it for 176. Now it's worth 300,000.

SPEAKER_00 17:11

Okay.

SPEAKER_02 17:12

I've got a 540 credit score because I I don't believe I've cashed out on everything except for my house. Yeah. So I don't have any credit history.

SPEAKER_00 17:23

Nothing.

SPEAKER_02 17:24

This this H E I, this will help me.

SPEAKER_00 17:26

Yep, exactly. Only only stipulation, 75% loan to value, unless they are gonna be a third lien because you already have a second lien because you're irresponsible. So then it's capped at 55. So then you better have been in that house for a while or put some money into the house. Okay, for sure.

SPEAKER_02 17:42

Check this out, Liam. I got my $300,000 house, right?

SPEAKER_00 17:46

All right.

SPEAKER_02 17:46

All right. You gonna do this math for me?

SPEAKER_00 17:48

I'll try.

SPEAKER_02 17:49

Okay. So I got my I got my $300,000 house.

SPEAKER_00 17:52

Let me get a calculator up. I got one somewhere.

SPEAKER_02 17:56

I owe $175. I took out a HE loan. A home equity loan for $25,000.

SPEAKER_00 18:09

Okay.

SPEAKER_02 18:12

How much money can I get from the from the home equity investment?

SPEAKER_00 18:16

So if we can pay off the HE loan, first we have $100,000 of equity. First off, um, total.

SPEAKER_02 18:24

That sounds pretty good. Give it to me.

SPEAKER_00 18:26

So, well, hold on, hold on. So we're gonna take that $100,000 and we're gonna look at that compared to the $300,000. Yeah, you're at 66% loan of value at $200,000. So if you don't pay off the second mortgage, if you refuse for some reason, nothing. Can't get anything. No, no money at all.

SPEAKER_02 18:45

Nothing. So I got a hundred thousand dollars. My house is worth three hundred thousand.

SPEAKER_00 18:50

You can't get a single dollar if you if you refuse to pay off that second mortgage.

SPEAKER_02 18:54

Hey man, hey man, this is sounding like a bad deal. What's my other option?

SPEAKER_00 18:57

So three hundred thousand dollars, you know, and then let's say we do pay that off. That's a two hundred thousand dollar loan. So first that's 25k you're gonna be getting now right there. Yeah, and then we're going to take that 300,000, 75% of that. I forgot the percentage. 300,000.

SPEAKER_02 19:14

It's not it's not 2 million.

SPEAKER_00 19:16

No, it's not.

SPEAKER_02 19:17

That's what I saw five up on the screen over there. $2 million.

SPEAKER_00 19:20

$225,000 is the highest loan amount you can go to. Okay. So you can get that $25k to pay off that second mortgage, uh-huh, and you can get another $25k straight in your pocket at that point. In my pocket. Assuming you have good credit.

SPEAKER_02 19:32

It might be uh good credit for the for the equity investment.

SPEAKER_00 19:37

$500 is the minimum. I would say if you're anywhere $600 or above, you're gonna get that max amount offered. If you're at $500, you might get more like $22. They don't really take too much off, but they aren't gonna give you the full amount.

SPEAKER_02 19:49

But you're talking about $25,000 in my pocket with no payment.

SPEAKER_00 19:53

No monthly payment, no interest rate, and you only have to pay it back when a financial transaction happens on the home. Whether that be you selling the home, whether that be you getting a cash out refi. Like I have another client right now, just signed him yesterday. He's FHA, he has four lates in the past couple months, past like actually past year, let's say. In FHA loans, if you want to take cash out, if you have one late, you're done. Not gonna happen in 12 months, yeah, which is becoming a lot more common. Um, so for an HEI, we're giving him about $57,000, if I remember right. Um, no monthly payments. He's paying off all of his debt because he has about 30k in other debt. He's getting caught up on his mortgage and paying a little bit extra just to be like, hey, my fault. And then he's got a little bit extra in his pocket. And then in six months from now, or it's gonna be more like eight months, because his last late, I think, was April. So yeah, we're almost a year away from being able to help him. Okay, um, we're gonna be able to do a full cash out refinance, pay off this HEI, um, which he's barely gonna have to actually owe them on because the more the longer that you hold an HEI, the more money you owe them, essentially.

SPEAKER_02 21:07

Uh so if he's paying catch, there is absolutely.

SPEAKER_00 21:11

But if I give you a thousand dollars and I say pay me back in a week, I'm only gonna ask for like maybe ten bucks on top. If you don't give it to me for 30 years, I need something. You you yeah, you you got over. Exactly.

SPEAKER_02 21:23

Got over. If I if I owe you a thousand bucks for 30 years, how much would you charge me, Liam?

SPEAKER_00 21:28

Uh after the first year, you're getting like a hundred percent a year at that point. A thousand dollars, that's a payday loan.

SPEAKER_02 21:35

No, but I think the the good part about the HEI is it's it's capped. So if it does take me 30 years to pay it back, I still only owe, I think it's like 20% of it. So if I if I borrow a thousand, I gotta pay you back twelve hundred.

SPEAKER_00 21:48

Exactly. So they can't take more than a certain percentage of what they buy into the house, which I think is really nice. And it only matters if your home appreciates. If your home depreciates, if you buy in a bad area or something. Happens in your area, they can also lose money on the property. They're not just gonna take more from you, they are gonna take what you owe them.

SPEAKER_02 22:07

So it's a true equity split. They're investing in your neighborhood, going up in value, which in the history of housing, I don't think it's ever happened.

SPEAKER_00 22:17

No, and especially if we're gonna if this bill passes and we pump money into these houses, they're only gonna make more money.

SPEAKER_02 22:23

So this is a good investment. Like I said, so so in the history of housing, you can Google this, you can look it up, you can fact check me. Home prices have only gone up since we started building them. Yep.

SPEAKER_00 22:37

Forever. That's it. And they will continue because, like we always talk about, all stocks, all investments, everything always goes up. Everything all the time goes up.

SPEAKER_02 22:46

Yeah, but so this is hard value. It just takes more dollars to buy them. It's still a house. Yeah, it's still a house. Speaking of uh uh houses, people are buying them again.

SPEAKER_00 23:00

Are they?

SPEAKER_02 23:01

Yeah, are you sure?com just updated really uh the mid-year update says the price growth is slowing, so things are things are evening out. People are buying houses, but the the amount of dollars it takes to buy them is only growing at a pace of one percent.

SPEAKER_00 23:21

I hate the consumer, bro. I hate the consumer. We're in arguably one of the worst economies we've had dollar-wise in my lifetime for sure. Like second only, actually, a lot of if you read a lot of statistics now, I don't have any off the top of my head, but a lot of financial statistics now are worse whatever since 2008. And we all know it happened in 2008. So we're in objectively a worse economy than we were in since the worst economy in the US, since the last worst economy in the US. And we're selling houses, people are taking loans, people, the economy in terms of people spending money has not slowed down. We can only blame the consumer. Like, yeah, the government fucking us up, yeah, there's a lot of things that are going against us. If the consumer doesn't stop, they're gonna keep going.

SPEAKER_02 24:10

Well, so there's there's there's a there's another side to this. You're not just irresponsible for buying things, right? No, like people have to live. The the cut like the more we've we've said this time and time again, every episode. Every episode, I think. Every episode, we say it costs more dollars to buy the thing than it did yesterday. Literally yesterday. So you can't blame people for spending the money that they have when the wage growth hasn't caught up to the rate of inflation.

SPEAKER_00 24:45

It's something bad too. It's like 40% or something like that over the since like the 80s.

SPEAKER_02 24:49

No, I think it's I think it's like I think it's like a 75% growth, like wage growth has gone up uh like a quarter on the dollar. Like, so for every dollar something goes up, you might get a 25 cent raise.

SPEAKER_00 25:05

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 25:06

So if I'm if I'm losing a fourth or if I'm losing 75% of my money every year, just you know, or a quarter of my buying power every year, that's not gonna, you know, that's that's not gonna have me uh jumping for joy to make investments. Right? I'm trying to eat. Yep, I wanna eat. I want to eat food, but you know, McDonald's cost the same as as uh as a steak. You get what I'm saying? Like outback and McDonald's shouldn't be the same price. No, that's that's that's not equal to me. Not at all. So but when we're talking about the the housing market, in that aspect, people are always gonna need a place to live. Yep. You have to have shelter, whether whether you're renting it or you're or you're buying it, you will always have a place that you're gonna call home. Always.

SPEAKER_00 26:06

So, you know, when you gotta move, you gotta move. So uh since 1985, the median US home in household income has grown about roughly 252%. Medium home prices have gone up about 400%. So there's a hundred and fifty percent disparity. Yeah, more money is going into houses, and that's only gonna be exacerbated by this bill. I'm still gonna complain. It's a good, it's good for the Americans, but also I'm still gonna complain because we shouldn't even be in this position in the fucking first place.

SPEAKER_02 26:40

Because you're hanging, because we're we're we're well past that point. We are I was you when when Bernie Sanders was running and he told us, hey, we're gonna have uh education for Americans, we're gonna have health care for Americans, healthcare for all, we're gonna have uh uh jobs created by the government.

SPEAKER_01 27:00

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 27:01

He never said free. No. Never once. He never said free. He said he said, we're gonna have all this stuff, and you're gonna be charged a little bit more in taxes.

SPEAKER_00 27:11

That was a little bit, only a little bit.

SPEAKER_02 27:15

He would do this.

SPEAKER_00 27:16

He would say you're gonna be charged a little bit more in taxes. That's also a slippery slope, though, because we said the income tax was only uh gonna happen because we were at war, we're at World War I, I think it was. It wasn't it was two.

SPEAKER_02 27:28

And it became, hey, we still have it. We still have it. They said, hey, you know what? This is a pretty good thing. I like this. Have you have you heard the story? And and that's the I'm gonna come back to this, but the the income tax thing reminds me of a story um uh about the the chimps in the in the uh what is it like a chimpanarium? What is that? I don't know the term okay so they're it's not it wasn't a zoo, it was a it was a it was like a social experiment. So there's these chimps and they're in this in this uh it's basically a cage.

SPEAKER_00 28:02

Okay.

SPEAKER_02 28:02

There's one tree in the cage, there's some bananas at the top of the tree, right? So for the first month, they're in there, they let the the chimps eat the bananas as as often as they want to, right? Okay, so one day these scientists, these cruel, sadistic motherfuckers, uh start dumping water on the chimps as they grab for bananas, and they hate water. Okay, right? So every time they reach for a banana at the top of the tree, they dump water until eventually none of the chimps want the bananas anymore. They're like, fuck those bananas. We're not we're not going to get them.

SPEAKER_00 28:37

Okay.

SPEAKER_02 28:37

They bring a new chimp in.

SPEAKER_00 28:38

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 28:39

Right?

SPEAKER_00 28:39

And he doesn't know about this.

SPEAKER_02 28:40

He doesn't know about the water.

SPEAKER_00 28:42

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 28:43

So the new chimp climbs to the top of the tree to get the uh to get the banana. They don't dump water on him. The other chimps are like pulling him down. Okay.

SPEAKER_00 28:54

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 28:54

And then eventually that just becomes the norm. I see where you're going with this. So they introduce a new this. So slowly they start taking the chimps that knew about the water out of the chimpanarium.

SPEAKER_00 29:07

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 29:08

Right? Until no chimps remain that knew about the water.

SPEAKER_00 29:11

Okay.

SPEAKER_02 29:12

But every week they're bringing a new chimp in, and every time that he goes to climb the tree to get the banana, the chimps are pulling them down.

SPEAKER_00 29:18

Right.

SPEAKER_02 29:19

So now there are no original chimps. Okay. None of these chimps in the chimpanarium have ever had water dumped on them, but none of them go get the banana.

SPEAKER_00 29:28

That's crazy.

SPEAKER_02 29:29

Those bananas are taxes. Okay. So, so you know, when you when you when you have a belief system in a country, you have to replace it with something.

SPEAKER_01 29:42

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 29:43

Right? You can't just snatch the idea down. So when taxes became the norm for uh the American government to function, yeah. They're like, oh no, this isn't going away. These are our bananas.

SPEAKER_00 29:56

Yeah. We can't survive without these.

SPEAKER_02 29:58

We need our bananas.

SPEAKER_00 30:00

Yes. Okay, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 30:01

So so that's that's that's my little spiel on on like, you know, taxes. But yes, unnecessary. We actually fought a war when we uh uh And that was over like two percent taxes.

SPEAKER_00 30:14

I know where you're getting at the time.

SPEAKER_02 30:15

We started the country that it was about paying taxes.

SPEAKER_00 30:18

We threw tea in the Boston Harbor over two percent taxes, and we're getting taxed at like 30% now and just accepting it.

SPEAKER_02 30:25

Oh my goodness.

SPEAKER_00 30:26

Men used to go to war. I'm not going, but you know, I almost went to war.

SPEAKER_02 30:32

What haven't you done, bro? I you know, I just I just I bounce around a lot. It could, it could be my my ADHD. But it's that's fair. I get that for sure. I have a lot of different interests. Um but yeah, like like coming back to the to the housing market again, man. Like it's it's funny, it's a funny thing because people are buying houses, but you would not believe the deals that people are getting on these houses.

SPEAKER_00 31:01

That is true. There I've seen some crazy deals. I've wrote a couple.

SPEAKER_02 31:04

I put one in today. This lady's buying a $400,000 house and is getting $10,000 in uh closing costs covered by the seller.

unknown 31:15

Damn.

SPEAKER_02 31:16

Like how much is the loan amount? Uh it's $400K. That's nice. $400K. So she's probably gonna bring like $20,000 to closing. I'm closing uh another one tomorrow, almost $600,000. They're only bringing 40 grand to closing.

SPEAKER_00 31:30

You should put me as uh TC on those.

SPEAKER_02 31:31

It's like so it's like less than one, you're you're buying houses for less than 10%. Yeah. Um, to control an asset that's gonna be worth a million dollars one day.

SPEAKER_00 31:41

And you're not parking your money in it too much, and especially if bills like this pass and the economy keeps pumping stuff in the houses. I mean, sky's the limit.

SPEAKER_02 31:50

So that brought that brought up an interesting thing in my mind, man. Like, go for it. What are we gonna do? What what is the next HEI? Like, what are we gonna do when all the houses are a million dollars? Because you're not gonna be earning that.

SPEAKER_00 32:06

I think because I know we're heading this way, because we're doing so much of like so much change is happening in terms of like the qualifications on the properties now and the money going in the properties, and also just the way the dollar's flowing. I think the next qualification change is going to go to the credit scoring systems. That's my theory. I could be very wrong, but I think FICO and Vantage are such outdated scoring systems to where it's not gonna be how are we qualifying borrowers based off of their income or the dollar it's amount, it's gonna be like a number being like a score. Like if I have a 699 score or a 700 score, that should not dictate a quarter point difference of if I'm a good borrower or not.

SPEAKER_02 32:50

No, keep talking. I like this. So I like this road.

SPEAKER_00 32:52

The credit the credit score system has been outdated for a decade now. Now we have AI. Like, also the weird stat, I'll have to find and put on the screen maybe. But one of the things I've seen before is did you know the most likely to repay every payment on time, uh, on mortgages specifically, is the 640 to 680 credit score grouping. They're the most likely to make their payments on time every month because they want to stay in that range. The people in the 800s get complacent, think I can miss a fucking miss a payment. Yeah, it's like when you get like an A on a on a class and you're like, I don't need to do the final, I'll still pass. That's the 800 scoring group. They think they get away with it, and then the 500s, they're there for a reason. If you have a 500 score, if it if it starts with a five, there's lates. I know it for a fact.

SPEAKER_02 33:40

Yeah, so you don't you don't get that low without trying, right?

SPEAKER_00 33:44

That's so if the 640 to 680 range is technically the best in terms of repayment, why are they not getting the best pricing? There's gotta be some other qualification besides a number that can give them better pricing. So something's gotta happen with the scoring system if our money system's changing.

SPEAKER_02 33:58

I love that. We should start our own credit agency. Is that if we do that? Are we allowed to? Is that kind of a conflict of interest? It's a free country, it's a free market, right? True, yeah. We can we can start, we can start uh so we got Equifax, TransUn, Xperian. Yep. Uh that's it. Why why can't why can't we start Leanne X? Yeah, you know what I mean? It can happen. Leon X credit agency.

SPEAKER_00 34:26

TM. We're trademarking that right now.

SPEAKER_02 34:28

Do you have do you have money? No. 900 score. 900. The more money you got, the higher your score is true, the more liquid assets you have.

SPEAKER_00 34:40

Yeah, and that's also that's also that that's a whole other rant. You know, on um people won't know this probably. The assets that you report to a lender when you buy in a property are only ones that you tell us about that we report for you. So they don't know you have assets, and like it does help with your qualification, but for some reason it doesn't help with the rate you get. If I have uh $10 million in liquid assets, I should be able to get whatever rate I want on the market, regardless of my credit score. Because I can pay off, I can buy the bank. So you're gonna give me whatever rate I want, but that isn't how it works. So you're right.

SPEAKER_02 35:18

Yeah, I I love that idea. I didn't even think you had that in you. I'm I'm actually shocking.

SPEAKER_00 35:26

Um, also, speaking of other things um that I wanted to talk about because I didn't really get into any of the thoughts I had today. Um, the Japan 10-year treasury, yeah. Uh, have you been watching it? I I heard about it. It's it's it's up, right? It's up like crazy. It's up insane. So for those who don't know, because most people, because I'm a fucking nerd and I just like this stuff for some reason. Um, Japan for like a decade had a 0% interest rate um bill, I guess they passed. Um, I don't know fully how the Japanese government works. But their their interest rates at some point, at some point, were so low where they were actually paying you to borrow money. So a big thing that happened was Western traders or just people in other currencies that were strong relative to the yen were borrowing money in Japanese yen, getting paid to borrow it, or borrowing it at pretty much zero percent, investing that money where they want to invest it in, whatever their niche was real estate, stocks, whatever, and leveraging free money because, like we're talking about the 10-year treasury in the US, that's not free, that's at six and a half percent right now if you're borrowing it. So people are taking this practically free Japanese money and spending it how they want to spend it, but that also makes the Japanese 10-year treasury as an investor who wants to buy into Japan not good. Because why would you want to buy a 0% return?

SPEAKER_02 36:49

No return. So that means I give you 10 bucks, you give me 10 bucks back if I ever cash it out. Exactly. Or my 10 bucks might lose 10 bucks if it if you go back into those negative numbers.

SPEAKER_00 36:59

And we don't even talk about inflation as well. So, like, let alone anything else that happens in the world, that's just it existing in a vacuum. Yep. So I don't know. I have a theory of a couple things that could happen here. One is because this is so much of more of an um one with the combination of the lack of trust in the US dollar and the lack of people wanting to be in dollars, because that all other countries are moving away from the dollar. Here's another asset that is still in the treasury bonds for people who want to stay in bonds that's becoming more attractive. So that means more dollars are gonna leave the US dollars, which if we know anything about bonds, they work inversely of stocks. So stocks have equity, the more money goes into them. And the stock price goes up, the more money is in that stock. Bonds work the opposite. The more money that gets put into the bond, the bond price goes down because there's less of a need to make it attractive. So, with Japan having pretty much all-time high bond prices since the 90s, um, early 90s, late 80s, I think a lot more dollars are gonna flow into the Japanese bond market from other countries who hold US debt, who wanna who are looking for an excuse to get out of it and want to get out of it, which means higher interest rates.

SPEAKER_02 38:13

Well, they could, I mean, it's gonna be arbitrage, right? Because if I roll my four or five percent US bond into if I take the just the the profits that I made on that in the the last two, three years, yep, and roll it into a Japanese 10-year treasury with US dollars, I'm starting over again. There, they're I'm I'm starting, I could take almost all of it, you know, with the hopes that it gets to four or five percent.

SPEAKER_01 38:42

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 38:43

Uh, I don't think it's gonna get there. But yeah, but it's but yeah, it'd be like it'd be like investing in US bonds uh five years ago.

SPEAKER_01 38:52

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 38:53

So I mean, yeah, that's that's an incredible opportunity, especially when it's coming up from what one, zero? It's coming from zero, so it's tripled in value. Who's the one guy that's been investing free money just holding it there in Japanese bonds and then woke up to his account today like, holy shit.

SPEAKER_00 39:11

Yup, it's it's tripled in value. Finally, just forgot about it like a Bitcoin wallet, and they're like, oh shit.

SPEAKER_02 39:18

But he woke up today with 280x return.

SPEAKER_00 39:25

And but that's the thing though, as good as that is, just like we talked about with the bill that's being passed, as good as that is for the guy who's been holding Japanese yen for forever, no one buys treasury bonds. It's old people buying treasury bonds, giving them as gifts to their kids or whatever, just parking money, and psychopathic, sadistic traders who just want to see stock.

SPEAKER_02 39:46

So why does why does somebody buy a treasury bond over uh Apple stock?

SPEAKER_00 39:53

Perceived safety, I think, is the simple answer because you think a country is more sovereign than Apple as a company. Uh huh. Japan is gonna be around way after Apple, in theory. So it's a safer investment, it's not moving as much. There's no I want to say there's no innovation, but when countries innovate, they innovate long span. When a company innovates, they innovate innovate every year because in business I feel like you either die or you keep growing. There's no stagnation in business.

SPEAKER_02 40:23

So bonds are building. You're betting on the sun coming up tomorrow.

SPEAKER_00 40:26

Yeah, essentially, for that country. For that country.

SPEAKER_02 40:30

For that country.

SPEAKER_00 40:31

Be specific. So do not buy Iranian bonds.

SPEAKER_02 40:34

Not right now. That's what you're saying.

SPEAKER_00 40:35

Not right now. No. Wouldn't be a great investment, I'd imagine. But I have seen in the Forex world, people have been looking into Iraqi dinar. I don't know much about Forex, I don't even want to pretend like I know, but what happened to those guys? Well, the the last person I had a long conversation with about Forex was one of the borrowers here, and they had 14 lates on their mortgage.

SPEAKER_02 40:55

So they take everything they say with a grain of if you are a forex trader. Wow. Um not just why. I'm thinking where are you? The the Forex bros were it was huge.

SPEAKER_00 41:10

It was 2018, 2019. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 41:13

I'm talking about they were having parties, they were inviting us over. They're like coming. Can you see colors? Is what they used to add. Like, I want, I want somebody. We're setting it up right now. We got some special stuff. You see the new angle that we got. We got some special stuff coming up. I want a Forex uh trader to come on our platform and let's just let's just go through the pros and cons. Come on here and explain to us.

SPEAKER_00 41:42

Stipulation is you have to be pretty good at Forex. You have to be at an all-time profit. You can't be at an all-time loss.

SPEAKER_02 41:48

Well, hey, it do you exist? Oh, do those exist? It's a great question. Do you exist? I'd love to learn about it. I would love to talk to uh the mindset of a Forex trader and and you know really get into it. Because I know some people that are pretty successful at it that actually know some technical skills. Yeah. Um, and and I'm curious, like, because I'm not I'm not a uh I'm not in that market.

SPEAKER_00 42:17

I've never touched that market. Like I kind of want to get into it physically because like gold and silver, I like having physical gold and silver. I feel like having physical currency fits in that same realm. If shit hits the fan in America, I have $10,000 USD. Great. I've also got $10,000 USD worth of yen, $10,000 worth of whatever country I want to go to. If I can just have $10K cash ready to go there, that's an asset.

SPEAKER_02 42:42

Yeah, but isn't it? But that's what I'm saying. Is is is the only play in Forex arbitrage?

SPEAKER_00 42:48

I mean, no, because I feel like you're also you can bet on currencies going up relative to other currencies. Like the yen is at a 40-year low relative to the US dollar right now, and it's been going down for a while.

SPEAKER_02 43:02

That sounds like a sick ass video game. Forex trading. Forex trading. Like, like just the way you just explained that, like, I'm gonna bet my yen against my yang. And we're gonna see which one goes up faster. No, that's what we're gonna make money.

SPEAKER_00 43:18

Because if I bet that I think Japan could go on a crazy run here relative to the US dollar, or the dollar's gonna tank, I should buy a fuck ton of Japanese yen as my bet to be like, oh, the dollar's gonna tank relative to the yen. If I have a lot of this stuff at a 40-year low, if it goes back up, like So you got a formula already. I mean, yeah. I looked in the forex before, I never got into it, but I looked in it. So never pulled the trigger. No. My money's not there, but hey, if I did have money. But no, my theory with the end, though, uh with the 10 year treasury, because I've been going on this tangent now, is if that becomes a more attractive asset and it's another it's another opportunity for people who want to get out of the US dollar. Because of whatever reason, it's another lane to get out of it. So if another lane is gonna get out of it, who's gonna be buying all these U.S. treasuries? Which means if no one's gonna be buying them, the rates are gonna have to continue going up. And if you can combine that with the inflation that we're gonna create with this housing bill, if it passes, because as much as many good things as it is gonna do. But it will create inflation, you know?

SPEAKER_02 44:28

We know that's the that's the whole point.

SPEAKER_00 44:34

We want more inflation, it's already happening when my gold goes to $20,000 an ounce because of that.

SPEAKER_02 44:44

That's true. Inflated, pop the balloon.

SPEAKER_00 44:48

I want to see the balloon pop. Me too. Honestly, I would love to. I'm positioned. My entire investment portfolio since I got into investing was is positioned for that balloon to pop. Yes. So as much as I complain about it, get ready. I will profit off of it happening. So I'm not I'm a bad person on that front, I guess you could say, but I don't want it to happen. But if it's gonna happen and I know it's gonna happen, I'm gonna profit off of it.

SPEAKER_02 45:13

I don't know if you're old enough, but you're you're you're a finance guy. So you've seen the big short.

SPEAKER_00 45:18

Actually, I haven't.

SPEAKER_02 45:19

You have not.

SPEAKER_00 45:20

I have not seen the big short. That just killed all my credibility. I'm sorry, but I've not seen the big short. You're cooked. I've seen clips on YouTube.

SPEAKER_02 45:28

Shorts. So the big short was what we're talking about right now. Right. It was people, yeah, yeah. People seeing the impending doom of what we were doing, even though it was, you know, people were making money hand over fist. People were were speculating on those mortgage-backed securities, filling them with anything. Anything. Anything. Bro, dogs-owned houses. Oh, yeah. And when the dog defaulted on the house, it went in this B security.

SPEAKER_00 45:58

If you had a pulse, you can get a house, which I think we should do a full episode about just the 2008 crash, like the lead up to it. I would love to do that.

SPEAKER_02 46:05

That's coming soon.

SPEAKER_00 46:06

That's what radicalized me. That's like the thing that actually radicalized my entire financial thesis was that.

SPEAKER_02 46:12

So it's happening again, except there's there's literally nothing, not even a house backing this money that we're creating.

SPEAKER_00 46:19

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 46:21

So eventually, we're gonna have so many dollars in the in the in the balloon that it's going to burst. And you're going to see the markets go crazy. You're gonna see gold, silver, any any hard asset, housing. Bitcoin? Bitcoin too. Yeah. Even digital hard assets, because there's a finite amount of it. Anything that has any type of intrinsic or extrinsic value is gonna shoot through the roof while the dollar tanks.

SPEAKER_00 46:49

This is also like my tinfoil hat theory on that while we're still kind of talking about that. Is um I saw in in conjunction with the Japanese yield going up, the 10-year, a lot of Japanese banks have shifted to their infrastructure being on XRP instead of Swift. If that's the government play. If that's the case, it is a government play for sure. If that's the case, is this not maybe like a little like piece of candy to be like, hey, come bring your money in the Japanese bonds so we can test out how XRP operates with more money on it?

SPEAKER_02 47:18

Yep, yep. And they're gonna figure it out before us, which is sad because it was our idea.

SPEAKER_00 47:23

We it's not our idea. We invented it. It's our company, it's a US company.

SPEAKER_02 47:29

So like I just don't understand. Like, we we were this was the one thing.

SPEAKER_00 47:35

Money was our thing. That was Trump's like whole pitch to get into office this time was crypto capital world. Now Japan's taking, I think, the best crypto, my favorite crypto.

SPEAKER_02 47:45

Well, they're more tech savvy, but like the money, the US has been the superpower in money for decades. Yeah. We have any credit cards. You know what I'm saying? Like, the money is our shit. Nobody should be doing innovating anything in the money space outside of America. Yeah, that's our thing.

SPEAKER_00 48:06

I mean, England became a bank, pretty much, you could argue. England went from being the whole world domination that they were in the what?

SPEAKER_02 48:13

Well, they're a little pissy about you know the war over taxes.

SPEAKER_00 48:18

So that's the way because we made them become a bank.

SPEAKER_02 48:22

So they still wanted a little peace.

SPEAKER_00 48:24

The the thing that's happening in the world right now, in conjunction with us in China, is what we did to England like 250 years ago almost to the day.

SPEAKER_02 48:33

Yep.

SPEAKER_00 48:34

Like the thing that people that our government is scared that China is doing to us.

SPEAKER_02 48:38

It's cyclical, bro.

SPEAKER_00 48:39

Yeah, Raidalio.

SPEAKER_02 48:40

There you go. There you go. See, you have read books. I have. I'm gonna link those books in the description.

SPEAKER_00 48:47

And the videos, those are good videos too. Have you seen those videos?

SPEAKER_02 48:49

I haven't seen the videos. I'm I'm gonna be a good idea.

SPEAKER_00 48:51

The videos would got me to read the book. Really? He had a whole video, like 30 minutes about the changing world order. It's great.

SPEAKER_02 48:57

Wow.

SPEAKER_00 48:58

Yeah, you gotta read the book. I'll read the book. Yeah, I haven't read that book. I only watched the video.

SPEAKER_02 49:02

Yeah, you gotta read the book. His philosophy on money and and empires.

SPEAKER_00 49:08

And Ray Dalio, come on the podcast.

SPEAKER_02 49:12

And the uh, you know, just the exchange of power going through the dollar. Is not not just the not just USD either. Yep. Like just currency in itself. Yeah. Um phenomenal read.

SPEAKER_00 49:29

I bet. I can imagine. Yeah. Um did you have anything else you want to talk about? Anything we got to do. No, man, that was that was that was it.

SPEAKER_02 49:36

I just wanted I just wanted to see your face and see uh our new cameras um in action. Yep. We we want to encourage you guys to like, comment, and subscribe if you're you know.

SPEAKER_00 49:50

If anyone has some physical Japanese yen, I would love some.

SPEAKER_02 49:53

Yeah, um, start my Forex account. And our and our new uh credit agency.

SPEAKER_00 50:00

Yeah, that too. And Dibbs is credit repair. Daryldibs.com.

SPEAKER_02 50:06

If you're one of those people that are not interested, you're not getting an HEI from us, um, you know, join the credit club, join our free Facebook group, Real Pathways, uh, join the Pathfinders.

SPEAKER_00 50:19

Is the thing out yet? Can I I don't know if I can't. The thing's not out yet. Okay, the thing's not out yet. I won't talk about it. I don't want to.

SPEAKER_02 50:24

The thing's not out yet. Okay.

SPEAKER_00 50:25

It's it's on the way. That was the thing that he talked about last week. He was gonna show me. I saw it's pretty cool. It's really cool.

SPEAKER_02 50:30

Yeah, it's not ready yet, but it is on the way. Um, more details to come. They gotta keep watching. They do have to keep watching.

SPEAKER_00 50:38

You haven't earned it yet.

SPEAKER_02 50:39

Like, subscribe, and comment, man. Yeah, this is uh first in future finance. See ya.