Joe Brooks – world champion fighter. H-Hour Icebreaker guest.

Join the H-Hour Patron Community at patreon.com/hkpodcasts ***** For this Icebreaker with martial artist Joe Brooks, answering patron-submitted questions he reflects on how being a trained fighter makes him far less likely to get into street fights, because competition gives him the confidence not to “prove yourself” outside the gym. He talks about the mindset behind combat, including how he visualized becoming Total Combat world champion for weeks before the bout, and why he thinks hard work can ultimately beat raw talent. The chat also covers how he sizes people up by body language and eye contact, why he believes calm confidence is a bigger tell than loud bravado, and why kickboxing is his pick as the best single martial art for real-world self-defense. https://www.instagram.com/joebrooks30/ @joebrooks30

This episode is sponsored by Sin Eaters Guild - sineatersguild.co.uk

Transcript

SPEAKER_01 0:00

Right. This is take two. You won't know this because I haven't released take one. Take two take one was a complete clefter because I made a technical mistake and was starting again. We know it's five minutes in, so Joe's gonna ask some questions again, which means which means Joe has had practice at the first two questions. So his answers to the first two ice tube breaker questions are going to be absolutely perfect. But they're gonna be perfect, aren't they? That's why if you're new to Hey Hour um and and you've come here uh listen to Joe talk because you follow Joe on the show socials, you follow Joe's fighting career. And be aware, I'm gonna do a Q ⁇ A with him now, a very short QA, it'll last about 20 minutes, and I'll be asking them questions which the patrons of uh which the patron heych hour patrons have submitted to ask Joe. They've submitted them in advance of the of the podcast because they get access to the guest list and they also get access to a live stream. This is being live streamed to the patrons. So uh in if you want that opportunity, uh then um then become a patron of the podcast. Costs about five or a month, do it cheap, and um, and it helps support what I do if you enjoy if you enjoy it. So please uh please uh take the bold step of supporting me for less than the price of a Starbucks coffee a month. Um anyway, right, we'll go into the icebreaker again. You know what's gonna happen, Joe. I'm gonna ask you some questions. You know the first two questions, but you don't know all the rest. So I apologize for the fuck about that, mate. It's not all good about me. Alright, so question one reminder Question one was Has being a trained fighter made you more or less likely to get into street fights?

SPEAKER_00 1:34

So I'll definitely say less likely. I think when you're a professional or you compete, whether it's an amateur, semi-pro, but especially professional fighting, you have that confidence not not to fight. Also, you you don't have the need to prove yourself to other other people when you are on the street or at a restaurant, club, bar, wherever it is. So yeah, I'll definitely say less likely.

SPEAKER_01 1:56

You think that's the case for most fighters?

SPEAKER_00 1:58

Yeah, I I I would not all fighters, but I would say probably 80-90% of them, yeah, definitely. Um when you get paid to fight, why would you fight for free on the street and end up getting nicked or getting in in serious trouble? And especially as a professional fighter as well, you've there's a lot higher chance of getting into more trouble because you're aware of what you can do to another.

SPEAKER_01 2:20

Yeah, you know, you're not there with your with your wraps on and your gloves on. No, 100%. So yeah. No, okay. Definitely not worth it. Uh what's the worst what is the worst thing you'd be willing to say to an opponent in a in a build-up to a fight in a press conference?

SPEAKER_00 2:37

That's a good that's a good question, to be honest with you. I'm not a massive massive talker. Um I don't know. I guess it kind of all depends on the heat of the moment, really. Um what the other person's like, to be fair, everybody that I fought so far has been pretty respectful. So I haven't really been put in that that situation just yet. Um my brother Matt he's had the complete opposite when he fought a scouts are on. I think it was TK1. And this guy was just non-stop going off, FaceTime him at one of the media days, and he's gonna rub his bollocks at his forehead and all and all sorts. So um, I would say my brother's definitely had the had the harder part, but um yeah, I'm not I'm not too sure to be honest with you. I think it all like I said, it all depends on what the other person really says and says and does.

SPEAKER_01 3:24

I feel like if you're fighting a scouter, if you're gonna be fighting, you you just have to up your trash talk game. Yeah, because they are gobshots.

SPEAKER_00 3:33

Yeah. I've got love for the scouters, but they um they're very good at talking, I would say that.

SPEAKER_01 3:39

Who's the uh who's the UFC scout fighter?

SPEAKER_00 3:43

You going Paddy, Paddy the Paddy?

SPEAKER_01 3:45

No, no, the other one. No, isn't Paddy Monk?

SPEAKER_00 3:48

Uh you've got Paddy Pimlet.

SPEAKER_01 3:50

I thought he was a is that a monk?

SPEAKER_00 3:52

Is he Oh he might be Manchester? Uh is he Manchester? Yeah, he's a Scouser, yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 3:59

No, who's the one before him? Uh there's a guy's a gobshite before him, I can't remember his name.

SPEAKER_00 4:04

Um I've been hitting the head a bit too much, usually.

SPEAKER_01 4:08

Uh uh Liverpool UFC fighter. I'm just googling it one second. Let's have a look, bear with me. Not Paddy. No, no, no, no. He was a gobshite. Oh Darren Till.

SPEAKER_00 4:28

Darren Till, okay. Darren Till. He was a gobshike. Uh actually um I was when I was after our world championships and Abu Dhabi, we were um top ten took us to um this beech club in Dubai, and um Darren yeah, Darren Till on the table next. I've actually got a photo of me, me and Darren actually. You had like Darren Till on the table next to us and Bugsy Malone, which was um quite interesting, but yeah, he's a good good old talker, he is. Is he?

SPEAKER_01 4:50

I imagine he's quite sound in real life.

SPEAKER_00 4:52

Yeah, you know what, he was actually a really um really nice, genuine guy. That's the thing. You see him on the camera and you're like, he seems like a bit of a bit of a twat. Um but you meet him in real life, they're actually um it was and um you know uh Tony I was at the bo box in last weekend, uh Tony Bellier. Um saw him in the elevator, he was actually uh pretty sound as well. Yeah, so um yeah, you see him on camera and they just talk, talk, talk. Yep, yep, yeah. Yeah, yeah. They're actually pretty pretty good guys.

SPEAKER_01 5:19

Yeah. Okay, question three. Uh if you Jesus, Jesus, Coke, if you killed or injured an opponent, how do you think you'd react?

SPEAKER_00 5:31

You know what? I've thought about it before.

SPEAKER_01 5:33

Um I think it would be I think from injury you mean severe injury, like yeah.

SPEAKER_00 5:37

Um I think kind of at the time you wouldn't unless they died, like literally right in front of you. I don't think you would know until later on, but I yeah, I think obviously it would be quite shocking. Um I don't really know what what there's not really much I could do. Uh I could apologize, but yeah, I think it'll be um yeah, I wouldn't like when I go in, whether it's on the tatami or oval ring, wherever it is, I'd go in there to do the do and get the job done. But the goal isn't to end somebody's life or really badly injure the injure them. Um but yeah, that's um yeah.

SPEAKER_01 6:17

Yeah, I always handle that tough one. It's like it'd be such an emotional burden that you wouldn't have experienced before. It's hard to answer that one realistically.

SPEAKER_00 6:25

Yeah. Um it's quite a quite quite a difficult one to answer, to be honest with you.

SPEAKER_01 6:30

Yeah. There's and there's been some high profile ones, isn't there, where the and the fighters have carried on, like Eubank, obviously, is the Yeah, you see it quite a lot in boxing.

SPEAKER_00 6:39

Yeah, quite a lot in boxing. Yeah, I saw a video on it not that long ago recently.

SPEAKER_01 6:48

Not Eubank's birthday, the other guy's birthday. Uh oh, I can't remember. Anyway, yeah, it's that's a tough one. That's a tough one. Uh you just have to sort of absolve yourself of any feeling of guilt.

SPEAKER_00 7:00

Yeah, you're gonna you're gonna obviously be devastated for the other other person and you will feel guilty in some sort of respects, but at the end of the day, especially when you're stepping into a professional fight, you do have to kind of accept accept the risks. Um that's the thing. Because you're not going there to ticket each other, you're going there to knock the other person out. Um that's the thing.

SPEAKER_01 7:24

Um, how much fear do you have about you getting a serious injury? Like career-ending kind of thing.

SPEAKER_00 7:30

Uh that's never even entered my mind whatsoever. Really? Never, never. Um the only thing I would say I haven't really spoken to this about uh to many people actually is sort of more the long-term effects because there's been quite a lot of research coming out recently about getting hit in the head quite a lot. Um, and especially when you're like doing it every day over and over and over again. So I'll say I'm a little bit more conscious of I would say the long-term effects of getting hit, but whenever I like a step, whether it's in Tatami Oval Brain, I'm never thinking about what's going to happen to me. It's always about the other person, it's always a positive, positive thought. My brothers were exactly the same. There's no nothing negative whatsoever. So I'm going there to smash that person, and that's it. So yeah, I'll say, like I said, long-term, long-term effects. I'm a little I'm trying to be a little bit more careful with that now in terms of sparring-wise, because like literally me and my brother and all our club mates used to spar. Sometimes we'll be sparring twice a day, six six days a week, and I don't think that's too good for your head or your brain. So um, yeah, we're just being kind of a bit more selective with how we spar in terms of watching the power, because we used to beat the absolute shit out of each other. Um, pretty much full contacts. Most times we would spar, whereas we're trying to sort of place more of a technical emphasis on sparring at the moment rather than trying to bash the brains out of each other, really.

SPEAKER_01 8:48

Yeah, I wouldn't mind talking about more about that in the podcast if that's alright. Yeah, of course. Um I'm just gonna write that down. Yeah. About how you're doing that. Okay, uh, another question here from Koch. Uh if you walk into a room of strangers, yeah, can you can you get a good sense of who's a trained fighter immediately? Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 9:11

How? It's um it's quite a weird um it's weird actually. It's it's almost a really good question. It's um it sounds a bit strange. It's almost like a spider, spider sort of sense. You get that, I get that when um especially like when you line up with somebody and you're about to fight them, and I can look look them straight in the eyes and go, okay, I want to absolutely beat the sh shit out of you, or I'll go, okay, this is this is gonna be a walk in the park where I can go, okay, this is gonna be quite a tough fight.

SPEAKER_01 9:38

And I've what are you seeing in that okay, in that example, in the in the in the ring or in the on the map, in the oval, wherever. What are you looking at in the eyes? Is it is that it's gonna be a fear thing, or yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 9:51

A lot of it's eye contact. Um, but I've had it before where I've had someone who's like been like right in my face, giving it all the large. I'd say it's sort of like that middle ground where they're quite quiet, quite reserved, stone cold face, not doing no I'm gonna kill you, and they're quite quite chilled, but that you can look in look in the eye and you get like a twinkle almost, and it's like, okay, this is gonna be gonna be interesting. So yeah, I not all the time, but you you do get a lot of people who can talk and back it up, but the people who tend to make loads of noise and give it all the tough guy look normally tends to be not that good. Um, and the people, like I said, who are in the middle ground, they're confident, but they're not cocky, not too arrogant, pretty, pretty chill, pretty calm, but you can yeah, it's just that look in the eye. I get like it's like a like a fire bucket, and I go, okay, yeah, this is gonna be an interesting fight, or he's gonna be a good fighter, or he no, he's not, and it's really weird. Like even at the last Total Combat, and there's quite a lot of the fighters I knew on there from whether it's from the kickboxing world or just in the martial arts world in general. Um, and I'm going, and I'm looking at them going, okay, or I don't know him. I'm like, yeah, I think you're gonna smash this person just by looking at them, not really knowing much about their background or how long they've trained for. I'm going, okay, I won't go 100%, but I'll say probably 90% of the time if I'm looking at two fighters and I'm like, he's gonna win. Most of the time it tends to tends to happen. So but it's yeah, just definitely I'll say uh a little bit body language, but definitely, definitely the eyes. So eye contact's a big one.

SPEAKER_01 11:22

So yeah, it's one of the one of the big indicators for me. Not that I'm a fighter, I mean when I'm looking at people is calmness, yeah. This calm but looking confident with it. You go, oh yeah, you know, and that's the same for like looking at professional fighters, you know, like yourself. 100% or like a street fight, yeah, and there's one guy and he's there's not breaking through like he's not bothered whether it goes to confrontation or not, he's not looking for it, yeah, or she's not looking for it, and they go. Like if that was me in that situation with this person, I would not be interested in getting a scuffle because I am not sure capable of it. But I'm sure you've had fights before.

SPEAKER_00 12:04

Yeah, I can't remember what the what the saying is, but it was something along the lines of when you walk it walk into a room, it's the quietest guys you've always got to keep your eye on the most. Yeah, yeah. They normally tend to be whether it's good fighters or best businessmen, whatever whatever it is, the quiet guys normally tend to be the be the one.

SPEAKER_01 12:19

So yeah, yeah, yeah, it's good. Generally. Okay, what else you got? Alright. So from David, this question's from David, and the question is uh so obviously you grew up in a martial arts family. Uh at what point did you realise, if there was a point of realisation, that it wasn't just something your dad did, but it was something you wanted to build your identity around too?

SPEAKER_00 12:45

So when I started kickboxing, I didn't really have much of a choice. I was kind of born into it, and as as as a kid, I always enjoyed the the training side of things, and I remember when I was probably about 12 or 13, and I remember and I can't remember, I think it was one of my friends fighting at the time or one of my club mates. I think they were a little bit younger than me, and I remember watching them fight, and I I think they were not getting the what's it kicked out of them, but they weren't winning, and I remember just being at that at the side going like I was praying to God at the time, and I was like, put me inside of their body, let me let me do the do it for them. And um, unfortunately, God didn't grant that wish, but I think the closest thing to it was being a coach and being able to sort of pass my uh skill and also knowledge of the sport of of the comp of combat um and passing it on to whether it's clubmates or students, um, which I absolutely love. I'd probably say I do love the fighting, especially at the moment. I'll say the total combat's probably one of my favourite favourite styles of fighting at the moment, but it's very close to the teaching. I love the teaching. Um, how old are you? Uh 24, 24, nearly 25.

SPEAKER_01 13:54

Nearly 25. Nearly halfway to 15. I'm eight, I'm nearly nine though. 25 in July. 24. Okay, I'm gonna question that actually. All right, all right, yeah. Um, okay, question two from David. Um you have just become the inaugural total combat world champion. Congratulations. Uh, did winning that belt feel like the start of something bigger? Uh or did you have you do you see it as just like another step in your career as is just a result of hard work so far?

SPEAKER_00 14:31

Yeah, I'll say a bit of a bit of both, both truthfully. Um I was so proud to do it, but also I was the first per first male anyway to be the total combat world champion. So it was um when it happened, it's it's still truthfully, it still hasn't quite sunk sunk in. Um like I'm a big believer in sort of visualization. Um so I'd say probably six weeks leading up to the fight, literally every night before every night I went to bed. All I could think about was knocking this guy out. Um and to be like, I've got a lot of respect for the guy. Um I'll get on with him quite well. He's he's uh um big in the kickboxing world. Yeah, Baja, yeah. Um lovely guy, nice guy, great fighter. Um tough fighter as well. I thought I was a fucking brawl.

SPEAKER_01 15:16

I don't mean brawl in like a in a negative way, I mean that was just a good chance.

SPEAKER_00 15:19

Yeah, no, it was a it was um yeah, it was a it was a good fight. I knew it was gonna be tough. Um he had a good chin on him, to be fair. I nearly got him in the second. Um did feel a little bit little bit rushed. I won't say the pressure got to me, but I I think I was like where it was like the first world title fight, I was like so I just wanted to get that knockout so bad, I think I just chased it a little bit too much. I think if I was a little bit more composed, I would have um got the job done for sure. But um, yeah, it was a yeah, great. Well it made a good spectacle. So um yeah, it was a good good fight. So uh the thing is like when you're especially when when you're competing for a world title, but especially for the first one ever, you want it to be a tough, tough fight. You don't want to walk in there and knock him out in 30 seconds because everybody's gonna go, yeah, yeah, yeah. So I knew it was gonna be a tough fight. And um, yeah, literally for about six weeks slept like absolute shit. I literally had about I was probably getting sort of two, three, maybe four hours sleep a night. So I was and plus training, teaching, working. Um, and all I could think about was just yeah, just the whole the fight and literally just getting my hand raised, even doing the interviews after. So it almost felt like it happened before it did. Um in my head, I was almost like the total combat world champion before it actually happened. Um, and I tend to do that with quite a lot of my fights anyway. Um sometimes like there is a little bit of a couple negative thoughts, but most of the time it's always positive. Um smashing the other person with my hands raised.

SPEAKER_01 16:43

That's a deliberate you deliberately do the visualization.

SPEAKER_00 16:46

Yeah, I think every every fighter is different. Like some people don't like they might have a fight coming up in six weeks, twelve weeks, however long, and like some people won't even research the other person whatsoever.

unknown 16:58

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 16:59

Um with me, I like to do a bit of research. I don't like to overdo it because um I don't want to overcut myself and overthink it, but yeah, for for me the the visit visualization is a massive, massive thing for me. Um I'll do it before every every every big fight that I have. Yeah, so especially if I know who I'm gonna be fighting as well. Um done it big time before the world championships and Abu Dhabi. That started probably six months before it before it happened. Um yeah, total combat was about six weeks, so yeah, it was um yeah, yeah, good old fight.

SPEAKER_01 17:29

So we'll definitely talk more about that on the pod. Uh okay, so next question from David. So you are your style is described as both technically precise and aggressively forward. Do you think great fighters are born with that instinct or can it be taught?

SPEAKER_00 17:52

Uh both I'll say both. Um I say it um at the gym a lot, um, and I see it with a lot of high high-level athletes. Some fighters walk into the gym and they're naturally really talented. Um but uh as as as a there's a really good good saying um when talent doesn't work, hard work always beats talent. That's the thing. What I tend to tend to find is the people who normally come in and they're not naturally that fit or sporty or aggressive, whatever it is, it takes a longer process, but they normally tend to be the better better fighters. Like I remember when I started. Okay, interesting. Yeah, uh long term, yeah, long term short term, wouldn't it?

SPEAKER_01 18:34

Because I think those kind of people, people who sort of got an aspiration, I'd love to do this or that, but are not naturally gifted. Yeah, they're the kind of people who would be less inclined to actually take the step forward and turn up to your gym.

SPEAKER_00 18:46

100%. It's um I like you'll see it, like I said, someone naturally really talented, they pick up all the moves, great, it starts they start sparring within six months or a year, competing within a year, two years, and they win everything at sort of a lower sort of amateur level, and then they win everything, and then they get they just get complacent, and then especially over sort of three, six years old, say, sort of that period roughly, um, and you this person might walk in and straight away is beating the beating the crap out of this guy, and then three years, four years go by, and then that shift happens um between between the two, and I see it all the time. Um yeah, I see it all the time. I I have it with students that I've got at the moment, um, and they've come in and they've been absolutely amazing, and I'm like, he's gonna be my next world champion, and then I have a not a chubby fat kid, but yeah, I have someone come in and I'll go, you know what? But I always try and see potential in everybody um because in a few years' time they yeah, definitely can overtake that other person. So if they work hard, stick to it, disciplined, yeah, definitely.

SPEAKER_01 19:47

Great advice, good insight. That okay. Last question on the icebreaker. Uh so if someone wanted to learn one martial art, I don't even ask this loads of times, probably. Uh one martial art purely for real-world self-defense, what would you tell them to choose and why? You can only choose one. What would you choose?

SPEAKER_00 20:06

I was gonna say two. I would say uh I'm gonna have to go kitboxing. Okay. I'm gonna have to go kitboxing. Why? Um, because it provides you with quite a good overall uh let me think about this. You know what? Uh um uh you know what I'll I'll yeah no, I'm gonna go kitboxing. Okay. I'm gonna go kitboxing. Why? Um I think it gives you a pretty good especially most most street fights, not all street fights, I'll say most of them tend to stay on the feet. So I think if um what the kitboxing is great for is distance. Um what you tend to find with boxes, they tend to sit a lot closer to each other, whereas the kitboxers tend to have a little bit more space. Obviously, you can use the legs as well, and the legs are a great, great um weapon of choice. Great defence weapon, 100% weapon straight kick to the leg. Yeah, leg's gone, game over. It's also even a big, even a big round kick to the leg. You have to be careful throwing kicks high in street fights because you don't want to slip over and because you're a kickboxer and you end up on the floor and you've got someone who's good on the floor, it's game over. But I think if you can get the job pretty quick, done pretty quick, whether whether it's a straight kick to the leg or a massive leg kick, yeah, game over.

SPEAKER_01 21:19

It's also it's also I've only sort of realised or uh this dawned on me recently, and and that is that where women are concerned. So you know, BJJ, great for women, I think, particularly in particular as a defence sport, but the underrated thing is kickboxing Muay Thai for women because women find it hard to generate knockout power upper body, yeah. But people's legs are fucking strong. Women's legs are strong enough, but it is small women, they will knock you get a shin to the foot the head, or you get a shin to the liver, or you get uh you know, like a the right kick to. The thigh, no matter what size you are as a bloke, you are going down.

SPEAKER_00 22:03

Put it this way if you've got a lady right who's 50 kilos and you've got a guy who's 100 kilos, yeah. Okay, and let's say she's a pro ju jitsu or wrestler, whatever it is, there is it's highly unlikely she's gonna be able to take that hundred kilo guy down, choke him out, or put him in a lock. Delivers a solid front kick to the bollocks, yeah, yeah, yeah. It doesn't matter how big you are, yeah, it's game over, you kick him and boom off you go. Yeah. Um kickboxing is a good show.

SPEAKER_01 22:34

Kickbox is a good show.

SPEAKER_00 22:35

I've got to go. I'm a kickboxer, so I've got to go with kickboxing. The MMA is good, I would say, another good one as well, because it gives you a good background into floor work, stand-up, everything.

SPEAKER_01 22:46

MMA is a sport, you mean? Okay, let's talk about that all right as well on the podcast. All right, that is the icebreaker. Dan, if you are new to Hey Church, this is gonna the next episode in your um podcast player, whatever it is, be that YouTube, Spotify, uh, Apple, whatever you're using, is gonna go straight into a full podcast with Joe. It's gonna be a couple of hours long. We're gonna talk about all sorts. That icebreaker would be really interesting. I mean, I've been making a bunch of notes on that. So I'm gonna be hitting Joe with uh a load of questions. We're gonna talk about we're gonna talk about uh his talk combat uh world championship fight. We're gonna talk about we're gonna talk about your upbringing, Joe. Yeah, that's it. We're gonna talk about the gym, we're gonna talk about your brother.

SPEAKER_00 23:25

Fantastic. That's all good. It's all good.

SPEAKER_01 23:26

We're gonna talk about it all. So um, yeah, let us flick over into the pop into the next podcast, listen to the full thing. Let us know you if you enjoyed it in the comments. Become a patron of the podcast, please. And uh if you don't want to, cool, but make sure you listen to the next episode. Right, let's take a break.