Special Forces Support Group guest: “When talent doesn’t work hard, hard work always beats talent.”

For H-Hour #284, I welcome Rohan Byfield, former Paratrooper with 24 years in 1 Para and SFSG, now founder of R2Bean2 coffee (try his signature Dark Lord Reserve blend), for a wide-ranging conversation on military life, mindset, leadership, and transitioning to civilian success. We discuss SFSG's origins from ad-hoc support ops like Exercise Chameleon to formalizing after Iraq rescues (including smashing a Warrior through a police wall), his 2005 deployment overlaps, and how Paras' aggressive ethos — "close with" — made Taliban avoid them while fostering battalion rivalries that sharpen skills. Rohan explains cultural clashes with Marines (less NCO autonomy in O-groups) and RAF Regt, why Paras formed SFSG's core amid defense cuts, and the treadmill of service that RAF Brize Norton breaks; he shares on owning mistakes vs excuses, elitism's necessity for shock troops, and adapting leadership — "autonomy, accountability, treat people with respect you'd expect." We cover coffee's origins, rage-mode Paras struggling post-service, and end with patron Q&A. https://r2bean2.com/

This episode is sponsored by Sin Eaters Guild - sineatersguild.co.uk

Transcript

SPEAKER_05 0:16

Hey Chower, uh, we have got Rowan Bivefield in the studio today, and uh it has been live streamed. This podcast has been live streamed to patrons. I'm gonna be asking uh Rowan uh towards the end of the podcast a number of leftover questions from the icebreaker, which were submitted by patrons. There will also be questions submitted by patrons in the YouTube chat in which the patrons are currently watching the podcast. Patrons get a lot. You can become a patron for about a fiver a month. Uh go to the blurb in of this podcast, and in there you will find links to become a patron. Please do so. It supports the podcast and uh it supports me and I appreciate it. And uh um if you listen to this podcast regularly and you get something from it or get something from most episodes, which I hope you do if you listen to it regularly, otherwise, why the fuck are you listening to it? Then please consider taking another step forward and supporting the podcast and become a patron, even for a short time, just do it. You'll find uh you'll find you enjoy it and get good benefits and uh a good intro to a good little patron community of like-minded people. Anyway, Roman Bifiel. Welcome to Heychower.

SPEAKER_02 1:29

Well, thank you, Hugh.

SPEAKER_05 1:34

Welcome to Hey Chower in your HR 4K merch with my R2 Bean2 uh coffee that you've just gifted me, Dark Lord Reserve. I love I love the name of that. I love the name of that coffee. I like it. I love that this uh blend anyway. Uh and uh is it hang on, is it a particular blend? The Dark Lord Reserve.

SPEAKER_01 1:53

So the Dark Lord Reserve, funny enough, is um me. You're not the reserve, the Dark Lord Reserve and the Dark Lord, yeah, and I call it the Dark Lord Reserve uh as a sort of like a hey, this is my signature blend. Uh around that. Um but yeah, it's uh it's a nice blend. It's uh an everyday drinker, uh quite smooth. So yeah, you'll you'll like it.

SPEAKER_05 2:22

I will get it down me uh this weekend and let you know what I think. Oh, yeah, please do. Yeah, uh, we need to thank Paul Gononis for uh the introduction. Yes, Paul Genonis, yes, excellent introduction, and uh and also um I liked your call out of uh Gaswell from Sinita's Guild on the Icebreaker, yes, which I'm gonna send to him. If you I'm not gonna we're not gonna regurgitate it now, go back and listen to the icebreaker. Uh uh and uh you will hear that. Sorry guys, Dark Lord isn't happy, square your shit away. Um anyway, on to the podcast. So you mate, 24 years one power and SFSG. Yes, you must have deployed all over the place. No, not really. Okay, go on. I spent what's your most memorable?

SPEAKER_01 3:13

Um when it first started. When what first started? SFSG. Okay, because we was in Ireland um in the Romeo Towers, and then um we got pulled out the towers um and got sent over. Two platoons got pulled out, and then we went up to H to get trained and do all the training and went out there.

SPEAKER_05 3:37

What year was that?

SPEAKER_01 3:38

Uh oh five.

SPEAKER_05 3:39

Oh five. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. What did you get told?

SPEAKER_01 3:45

Well, it was weird because um if if we go way back when you you got these exercises, what chameleons? And it was I mean, that was kind of that scenario, but just well, explain chameleon for people, if you would. Alright, so exercise chameleon is an exercise.

SPEAKER_05 4:06

Oh, hang on a minute. Is this uh Is this dodgy info? Is this not dodgy info? Is this dodgy is it we should be able to do it? It doesn't exist anymore, though. Oh go on then, talk about it, yeah. Yeah, to make sure you're not gonna get thrown in flipping London Bridge.

SPEAKER_01 4:19

Well, I've got to be careful because obviously I've got a lifetime official secret act signature. But is it's an exercise that you do with the obvious boys up the road, and you used just different units used to get pulled out and you'd put get put in scenarios and you'd do different things. Supporting supporting them, yeah, but now it's now formalized properly where it was just ad hoc, it's it's now this an SFSG, um which I think was born from a lot of things like access to troops, uh um and equipment, especially out in Iraq at the time, you know.

SPEAKER_05 5:06

We're well one of the first ops, I think it what was done in SFSG capacity. Correct me if I'm wrong, was in Iraq in 2005 to go and rescue the two Harifer guys that'd been kidnapped by the police. So Herefore be doing that up, and I'm sure, because I was on an op as well, and I am sure that there was one paracause you picked us up in the um in the Warriors. Uh well, we I didn't know. I but yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 5:39

Power Edge guys came up in the Warriors and and got us. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_05 5:43

So were you on the up?

SPEAKER_01 5:45

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 5:45

Oh right. We're on the panel at the same time, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 5:53

Small worlds, small worlds, very small world, because yeah, um interesting times.

SPEAKER_05 6:01

Can you swap on that up?

SPEAKER_01 6:04

Uh depending on what you're asking.

SPEAKER_05 6:07

Didn't they end up smashing through the sidewall in a they put a didn't they end up putting a warrior through the w the wall of the police compound to rescue those guys out? Yeah, that wasn't the original plan, was it? The original plan was to go in a bit less mental.

SPEAKER_01 6:19

Yeah. Um I know one of the guys as well because he got attached to us. Um guy got kidnapped. Yes. Yeah. I won't mention his name or anything like that. But he got attached to us out in uh when we were out in Kenya uh way way before SFSG became a thing. And um he became good friends with a couple of friends of mine now that they're still friends, and it funny enough, they all ended up the road together. But I remember seeing him when I'd uh when I'd gone back up there as uh an I am of all things. So an IM is an information manager for for those who don't know what that is. And I met him out when I was I was out doing IT stuff. They're like, what you do out here? I'm like, I'm doing this. They're like, what? Power edge? And I'm like, yeah. It's uh it's a whole new, a whole this is how I ended up in the job I am. I ended up in because I was in the my last two. I'd like I was at the end of my like I'd had enough. I didn't want to get bitter and twisted. So I was like, I wanna, I don't want to come back. I wanna I wanna do this or this. And they were like, well, you can't do that or that, but we've got this. And I was like, okay, I'll do that. And what they explained the job was completely opposite to what it was. So what did they say they did? They were like, Oh, you was you did uh you did the incel back in the day, you was in you know you deployed that to Ireland, we did you was in the incel. I was like, Yeah, and I was like, Yeah, it's a J2 job. Um, and I was like, Yeah, intelligence job, yeah. So I went I went up there thinking it was a J2 job. It wasn't, it was a complete, it was an IT job. So I had to I had to learn SharePoint 2010, how to build sites, how to do permission sets, how to do HTML, all of that sort of random stuff. But it was great because turns out I was a bit of a geek, um, just didn't know it. You know, I've always had interest in tech and technology, and but it's just like uh in passing. But then when I got in it, because there's a signal guy in there, Dave, he's the one. We sat in the office one day and I was asking him questions, and I was we were like bouncing off each other, doing different projects. And he turned around to me. I knew it was he was doing it to get a bite, but I couldn't help myself, I did bite. Um, and he turned around and he went, Rowan. I was like, Yeah, you're a bit of a geek, aren't you? And I was like, No, no, no.

SPEAKER_05 9:00

It's a compliment these days, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 9:02

And I was like, no, Rudge. Rudge, Rudge, poor Rudge, yeah, and uh, and he just went, mate, shh, embrace it. Yeah, yeah, it just embrace it. And I thought about it, and he was right because I learned so much, and all that, all the things I learned there just put me there because I had the mindset of, hey, let's go and do it, let's go learn it. I don't know it, let's go get get that information and become better again. Back to that original question of on the icebreaker, yeah. In the ice cream, uh, the icebreaker about uh the mindset about elitism. That that's part of it. If you don't know something, you go and learn it and find out, you drive forward to be better because you don't want to be that guy that's a caught out or make yourself look shit. So again, part of that mindset is that so ours learning stuff.

unknown 10:07

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_05 10:09

Um when uh so with SMSG, when the uh when the Marines and the RAF regiment were formally sort of brought into that organization initially, how do you so were you there when that happened? I was in were you in the you was with SMSG when that happened, right? Yeah, but how was that received and how did it and and and what I suppose what was anticipated with that how that would go? And how did it actually like what did it work well at the start?

SPEAKER_01 10:38

Um initially no. Uh initially no.

SPEAKER_05 10:43

Um because they were like well how many did they bring in at the start?

SPEAKER_01 10:48

A comp company of Marines and a platoon of uh uh Raf Reg. I think the difference is the Marines when they first came, they were just like an entity on their own. But for the Raf Reg, they in because they were only a platoon, they got integrated within to a company, so they mixed straight away with PyReg guys, and they kind of over time just hit it off. Um, obviously, again, that the Marines they've got their own selection, the Rafra just got their five mile of death, as and then PyReg got so we are naturally competitive anyway within ourselves, so there is an element of posturing in it. Um who's the big dog in the room? So there's a there's gonna be an element of that, but then the essential bit is over time, people real, you know, you all realize that you're on the same team, and you're all gonna yes, there's gonna be some young boys that have that, you know, have that arrogance about them that will carry on. But essential, you see the blokes now you you you wouldn't even sometimes it's hard to tell who's who uh when I go in, unless I know a face, you you just know you just see them and they're just interacting as uh geezers, and then when you you the only way you start to differentiate is language, because obviously marines are marine language, parish are parish language, but even that is starting to to blend in well, especially there, so you just don't know, you can't tell that yeah, and I mean that's a testament to what nearly 20 years of of um working together.

SPEAKER_05 12:50

Yeah, yeah, it's interesting to see how it's progressed, you know. It obviously works, it wouldn't keep going as it was now. Um there was a question, there was a question in the chat there as you were talking from from uh Coke, uh one of the patrons, uh asking why do Marines and Raf Reg and Power Reg get picked for SFSG and not other units. Well the answer for the answer for the Marines and Raf Reg is easy because Marines are the only infantry unit from the navy, Rath Reg are the only infantry unit from the RAF, there's no other options, and uh uh but power edge that's a different question. So why a power edge did a power edge form the the foundation of SFSG and not a different unit?

SPEAKER_01 13:36

There's a load of stories, but I think uh the the main one was uh defense cuts were coming, deals were done, is what you hear. Deals were done, you know. I say this, this one goes, does that, you you're next, you make sure this doesn't happen. That's like the cusp of it.

SPEAKER_05 13:59

But the reality of it is so insinuating that there was a risk that one power or a battalion from the not just power edge, just a load of you know, so deals were cut with outgoing and incoming is being is what I heard on the duty grapevine at one point.

SPEAKER_01 14:17

But for me, the the cusp of it is we are selected high-end infantry, yeah, in a nutshell, let's face it, um with uh the delivery mode of parachuting. Um easily to fit and work with an organization that is selected um to do their stuff. We got the same sort of ethos going through, so it would just make sense to move to move a battalion across.

SPEAKER_05 14:53

Yeah, quality and capability. Yes. If you look at it, yeah, I agree. Yeah, if you look at it on paper, you know, I'll take taking my parachute regiment I was gonna say hard then parachute regiment bear A off for a minute, you know. And you know, if you look at if you were to look at it um logically and say, okay, we need to form a special forces support group. Uh how to uh add capability to special forces basically. Uh who should we choose? And if you've got a whole, you know, an army of infantry and you've got a major unit in there, a regiment, which has a higher quality, higher standard because they have a selection process, it wouldn't make sense to choose one of the units from there, you know.

SPEAKER_01 15:33

Uh now you didn't have to create another selection process because the blokes were already selected. Yeah. And hence why you had the other it became tri-service, but hence why you had the other elements, right? The Marines are selected. Yep. They they go for their own selection.

SPEAKER_02 15:49

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 15:50

And let's face it, the RAF Reg are also selected because they have to do their own RAF Reg P company. So all three elements of it are selected um within their own organizations. Um, so it just makes sense.

SPEAKER_05 16:08

What were the were there any uh like nuances with uh RAF Reg, the way it did things, or the Marines and the way it did things, or or uh that you saw and which surprised you or interesting were amusing?

SPEAKER_01 16:21

I am using there was I mean for the Marines, there is an element like like junior NCOs in the Marines don't have a lot of power.

unknown 16:32

Really?

SPEAKER_01 16:32

Well you what go on oh well that was my experience, you know, like a a corporal in in the Marines, don't have the same level of power I I thought at the time as this as a corporal in power edge.

SPEAKER_05 16:48

You mean practical authority, yeah. But you know, I think at the base level that all they need to do is instruct the section, right? And advise the platoon commander.

SPEAKER_02 16:59

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 17:00

You know, when they're forming plans. What is that what they could do?

SPEAKER_00 17:04

No, oh you know, I'll I'll give it to an explanation.

SPEAKER_01 17:07

Like we deployed this before, so I deployed together with them as a company group and uh as an attached to them for for a specific thing. The bulk of them was Marines.

SPEAKER_05 17:21

Um and when you're in like O groups and stuff like that, or uh so an O group for people listening who don't understand, or O group is an or a meeting orders where you're you're lit you're receiving a set of orders or you're discussing the plan.

SPEAKER_01 17:34

As a full screw, you know if I had a point, I'd bring it up and I'd challenge it. You know, if there's something I didn't agree with. The others wouldn't, they just sit there and not say anything, and they were like, oh, we can't say that, that's not allowed. Right. I don't know if it's still the same, but that was my perception of that scenario within that group of men. I might be wrong, but that's what I saw. Um in that specific setup, was there wasn't a lot of um autonomy within reason.

SPEAKER_05 18:15

How often did you see that?

SPEAKER_01 18:17

The whole time I was there with them. Really? Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 18:19

The uh so if any if any there are Marines who listen to this podcast, and thank you for the time listening this far. Uh, but if you if if you if like if if you think if you want to uh add comment to that and chuck it in the comments, this because I'll put this clip out. You're watching the clip now. But put the put in the comments about what your experience of that is from being with it inside the Marines, or if you're not Marines, if you've experienced that yourself. That's interesting, I've not heard that before.

SPEAKER_01 18:42

Yeah, it was weird because uh they were like, I'm like, why aren't you speaking up?

SPEAKER_05 18:46

And they're like and I don't know if it was just them you know playing politics and protecting themselves, or it sounds to me more like uh so the only thing I can think that would be similar to that with with other units, uh army units, is where you've got uh units which have a long, rich history, right? Which the Marines do, you know. Uh for example, any guards unit, any guards battalion, you know, um as an example, and they have this so much rich history and tradition that I think there's much more formality in a lot of the things they do and how they interact with each other and when it's okay to do something when it's not. This I'm just I'm hypothesis. So where they may not say it in an old group in front of everyone, maybe there's a different angle and they would bring it up in a different way to be in command or not bring it up at all. I think that I think that is probably part of it. But then also it's I I think it's also more likely that no, it's not it's all it's also part of it is that power edge relationship with officers, non non-commissioned officers' relationship with officers is in my experience is very different to most other units. Yeah, most of the units will don't uh it wouldn't go on to first name terms, for example. You know, when you've been on our normally that would happen when you're on ops, right? First name terms and platoon commander. Um, and the the the the real the the relationship between between commander and everyone in the platoon or a company commander and everyone in the company is very formal. Uh in even in the language that you use and the way they talk to each other and all the rest of it, elsewhere, not so much in Power Edge, it's my experience. I've experienced that in other units, um uh, but not all the time. So I I see that as a really good thing. You know, a good, interactive, open and honest communication, uh communication-driven relationship between your platoon, uh, your platoon soldiers, your soldiers, your NCOs, and your platoon sergeant to the platoon commander, that drives quality and it drives high performance. You know, because you can I can I can say the platoon commander and the exact example you give, I can say the platoon commander. I don't know about that plan, boss, or I don't know about going to that position to do that part of the mission. I'm not sure about that, and this is why. And to be able to say that without fear of repercussion is is invaluable, but most units don't have that relationship with them. I I agree, they're quite orthopathic. Good, and it's not just exclusive power reg. I've seen other units with it, but at different times, like when those units are peaking, you know. Um so maybe it's that, maybe it's tradition and formality, you know. The navy, the navy is a fucking weird place, mate.

SPEAKER_02 21:40

Yeah, fair.

SPEAKER_05 21:40

It's a weird place, and it definitely rubs up off on the Marines. I mean weird like in a positive way. Yeah, I you know, I mean look, people who people stop making excuses, mate, just own it. It's true though. People who live life on the seven seas, right? Fishermen, you know, are weird. People who live in coastal towns are weird. Right? Now stick them on vessels with for long periods of time with weapons, very few females. They get weirder. They get weirder.

SPEAKER_01 22:09

That's why they do like uh dress up and uh wear the wigs in it.

SPEAKER_05 22:13

Um so that's the boot necks. All right, interesting. What about Raffridge? Was it the same with Raffridge?

SPEAKER_01 22:17

Um no, they see there are a lot I mean, they were both chilled. They're they're chilled organizations and they have good operators and bad operators, just like we do. Um so no I I would say the same. It's like there's a guy, I I lost touch with him. Um Nick Olive, um Royal Marine. What a what a bloke, an absolute bloke, mate.

SPEAKER_05 22:50

In what way?

SPEAKER_01 22:51

Just swept up. He was I think it was PL or whatever they call it, platoon something, platoon something.

SPEAKER_05 23:01

What he was platoon.

SPEAKER_01 23:03

No, yeah, like the the the trade or whatever it is, right? Mate, my brain is like I've been out what six years now. I'm not thinking like that. Um it was like a I can't even remember what it was, but he was swept up, mate. You know what you expected from a Marine, you know, and you know, it showed because he went on to become RSM. Yeah, he was just a swept up bloke, what a what a legend. Um, I lost I lost comms with him. It's a shame. So I remember him. Uh we had a chat one time and he's like, uh you want to meet up for for a for a wet? I'm like, mate, I'm not gonna drink, mate. I'll have I'll meet up for a brew. And and he he come up, he's like, all right then, let's let's meet halfway, let's let's go for a brett. Um so yeah, what a what a bloke, mate. Uh a lot of time for him.

SPEAKER_05 24:08

Um did the the boot neck, did the Marines get winged up before they come to SFSG? Do they get the jumps? Yes, yeah, yeah. So they'll do P Company and then come to SFSG.

SPEAKER_01 24:20

No, they don't have to.

SPEAKER_05 24:22

Why?

SPEAKER_01 24:22

Because they don't command a course.

SPEAKER_05 24:25

I thought he said to do P Company to get on the jumps course.

SPEAKER_01 24:28

Nope.

SPEAKER_05 24:29

I thought he did. Oh, okay. What about what about what's the Raf Fredge uh equivalent of P Company like? How does that stack up against P Company? I've got no idea.

SPEAKER_01 24:38

I've got no idea either. I mean, the the only thing, I mean, they're it's a running joke with that that comment about uh that guy who was having a bit of bands with yeah, but they do their own selection uh stuff and it is their own their P company or two Squadron or whatever, they do that. So within the Rough Reg, you got two Squadron, which is where this where most of the Rough Reg guys come from in SFSG, is there they come from there because they do their own selection and then they come across. Um they're all good blokes.

SPEAKER_05 25:16

Well, they they're gonna have to send the queen of the crop, you know.

SPEAKER_01 25:19

Well, I think initially uh no naming no organizations, but I think initially they didn't for some orgs. I won't name any orgs. Really? Yes, or I'd say they just did like a hodgepodge of what they had at the time, um and it it reflected the but that's not the case anymore.

SPEAKER_05 25:46

So I've just googled it, and the unless Google is getting this wrong, the RAF, the pre-Parachute selection PPS is very similar to P company. Very, very similar. Yeah, very similar. Anyway, anyway, um okay. How can we end up staying in in the battalion for all that length of time? Because that so for that 20 you stayed there for 24 years, right? Lucky, yeah, because it when I joined, they had stopped. When I first joined, there wasn't much inter-battalion pollination going on. It stopped. And then a few years after I joined, they started again. It was when it was it was when SFSG started up and people started rotating between the battalions again.

SPEAKER_01 26:35

Um by by the time by the time like SFSG fully kicked off, I wasn't in a company, I was in the rear with a gear mate, you know. Um, so I'm not gonna sit here and tell war stories. Um so you don't really need to rotate that element of your battalions, yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_04 26:56

Yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 26:59

So it is it is what it is. So I'm just fortunate. But even that is getting rotated now. Everything is getting rotated, and I I get it. Um we've got to uh share the skill sets and the knowledge and all of that. So I get it.

SPEAKER_05 27:17

Yeah, it makes total sense. It's good to switch between, very good to switch between. Yeah, um, I never did I never switched myself. Uh I managed to I'm gladly managed to avoid switching. Um when I say gladly, I wouldn't have liked to go to two para. Uh but um I did want to go to one para uh SFSG, which I nearly did at one point, and then I ended up pulling the plug on it and I got out. But um, yeah. It would have been really interesting to see what how the other units behaved in the same way that in the same way actually when you go on courses and stuff, and you and you're on courses with other military units and you see what these guys are what the fuck's going on here.

SPEAKER_01 27:56

Yeah, yeah. No, I mean I think power edge, power edge. But like I said, each battalion has got its own way of doing things. Um I'm not sure if it's if it really sticks up to the name of Gonji 3, bullshit two, sporty one. I think it's more than that.

SPEAKER_05 28:19

Did you say sporty one?

SPEAKER_01 28:20

Yeah, because one power is always one. Weird one, it always was. No, it was sporty one or the United Colored. You can tell yourself it was sporty one if you want. When I joined it, it's not as the Benetton Battalion.

SPEAKER_05 28:30

Oh, really?

SPEAKER_01 28:31

Why? Because of like it had more sort of like mixed population, like Aussies, Kiwis, you know.

SPEAKER_05 28:38

Oh, three power was like that, yeah.

SPEAKER_04 28:40

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_05 28:41

Yeah. Yeah. Um did you find it so 24 years, did you find it difficult leaving? No, we weren't like full on institutionalized then.

SPEAKER_01 28:54

No. Um and I think that I went to Bryce for two years. And I think that helped break the cycle. Because because you was on the treadmill, I call it the treadmill. You go on, you go on, you go and leave, the treadmill is still running, you just jump back on, catch up. So you when you're in it, you don't realize like your headspace is different. Cause I remember I went a prize and about six months later I got invited back to Mesdo by one of the blokes, and he said, he goes, mate, you look happy. And I'm like, I'm always happy. And he's like, no, mate, no, mate, you're happier, right? Uh, and I had to think about that. Uh after that night, I went back and thought about it, and he was right. You know, I had a lot more morale points um in my bank. Uh, and I hadn't realized it until I'd left um to realise that, yeah, I need that break. And and dealing with the RAF and the the RAF RCV is in uniform. But I made I made some good friends there too. Uh there's there's some real good people there, they know their stuff, they just approach things differently.

SPEAKER_05 30:20

Very differently.

SPEAKER_01 30:20

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 30:21

Very differently. Yeah, I remember my my sister. My sister, she's she's in the military. Um, but be and before trying to think where she got this. Look, she came back from something. She's also in the cadets for or she'd been in cadets all her life. She's still part of the cadets now, even though she's serving. Um, anyway, she came back with a poster. Oh, it was a it was a unit photo from from it's an RAF unit photo from Lynham. And they had like a logo on there. It's like a shooting star logo on this image. It was a you it was a it was a picture generated by the by the by Lynham, you know, RAF Lineum for everyone there, whatever whatever squadron it was that was doing this photo. Uh, but it said on it, it had this logo, shooting star, and it said team linem. Team Lynhem. I was like, that is the most civvy thing I've ever seen on a military team lineum. You know, I was still in at the time when I saw I was disgusted. Like getting crib of yourselves, you know. I had to I had to adjust.

SPEAKER_01 31:20

I know, mate. I had to adjust to how I communicated. No, they don't. Uh because their outcomes different. Yeah, true. Their outcomes different, isn't it? That's the thing, their outcome's different. You know, their mission set is different, so they have to apply it in a in a in a different way. Our mission set is to be as aggressive as fuck, let's face it. Because that's what that's the scenario you're going to be in. So you have to have people that can switch it on and switch it off where needed, but some blokes don't know how to switch it off.

SPEAKER_02 31:56

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 31:56

You know, they're like just permanently enrage mode. Yeah. Uh, because I it's speaking about that, I remember doing um, we did an exercise. Um, what is it called? Trumpet dance.

SPEAKER_05 32:11

Trumpet dance.

SPEAKER_01 32:12

Yeah, it's an exercise. So it was it was, it turned out to be an exercise with uh the guards battalion. It was for them, it was a retention exercise. For us, it was just another exercise. And we went to Washington State up in Seattle, and we did um and um we did the exercise up there, and they're all of that. You went through all the ranges, and one of the ranges was a bayonet range, and our um our um our platoon had gone in the range, and just you know, they were trying to hit the blokes up, and all the blokes are like, oh my god, right. I was like, let's come on, let's just get on, let's get on with it type scenario. Yeah, you know what the blokes are like, like, come on, let's just go. Um and it's like, I thought you look a power edge, and most of the blokes are just like, and I just went, mate, we don't need that. And he's like, What do you mean? I'm like, when we're ready, we'll just go. It's on, we'll go, we'll bayonet shit, and then we'll finish. And it's like, does everybody agree with that? And all the blokes are like, yeah. And he's like, Okay, then let's see it. And then the blokes did it, and then it was like, fair play, lads, fair play. So I do agree with that. I mean, milling is a prime example of that. It's not just you know, there to punch, but it's listen, it's being able to listen to the guy telling you instructions whilst you're in that heat of the moment.

SPEAKER_05 33:44

Yeah, start crazy mode, yeah, exactly. Start crazy mode, stop crazy mode.

SPEAKER_01 33:48

Exactly. Right. So yeah, it's all everything that is done is done for a purpose. Yeah, but people don't they don't see that.

SPEAKER_05 33:59

No, yeah, yeah, yeah. The uh I always always uh I always remember my first time around. It was this, yeah, my first time around a non non-power edge unit after I got out of depot. And it was in 2002. I went out to the Falklands as part of that Roman infantry company out there when we went out for the 20th anniversary. It was a platoon from one power, platoon from two power, platoon from three power in this composite company. Such a good time. I had a bad time, different things, like fucking craziness. Uh, four months out there. Part of it was the ceremonials that were going on for the 20th anniversary of the Falklands campaign. And we got put in this uh hangar overnight in Port Stanley, ready for the uh ceremonial the next day, and we shared the hang we were sharing the hangar with a bunch of other units, and it was a n there was uh there was navy in there off whatever ship coming. I maybe in Newcastle, might be in HMS Newcastle. Anyway, we were sharing with navy, uh like as in in proximity, like their their whatever the fucking they didn't have roll maps, they had camcots and shrimp. We were on roll mats on the floor, you know. But just being around them, I was like, these I couldn't believe they were military, you were military. They were they were and I was only young myself at the time, but they just they seemed like children, they were there to talk and they didn't seem like military.

SPEAKER_00 35:29

They just seemed like we were in Dover then.

SPEAKER_05 35:31

This is in Dover then, yeah. They seemed so far removed from anything to do with the military. Because all I knew about the military was power edge, power edge depot. I knew there's other screamer units because I seen them training. Uh sorry, screamer units, but you know what I mean? In training, we get stop making excuses, mate. Own you own it, and oh yeah, and then uh and then you know get the battalion up with three power, and then all of a sudden I'm next to a bed space in you know uh next to these navy going, oh I hated them, I hated them. This seems so childish, but the reality is, as you sort of alluded to, like aggression doesn't need to be a part of their job. It doesn't need to be a part of their job. No, they're never gonna close with and kill the enemy. No, you know, it's the same on the uh like RAF on the RAF side, RAF regiment excluded, the the entire rest of the RAF, they're never gonna need to close with and kill the enemy. Aggression doesn't need to be part of their job in any way, shape, or form.

SPEAKER_00 36:28

Exactly.

SPEAKER_05 36:29

Any way, shape or form. So you don't get it anywhere. You know, when you have with power edge, with infantry units, when you have aggression is required as part of your job spec, you need to be fucking aggressive at times, like hyper, hyper aggressive at times um to survive the mission, then that also that aggression just carries on into other aspects of you going about your daily life in that job from the way you speak and deal with conflict, yeah, from the way you playfully interact, you know, socially with your mates. You know, there's aggression all the time, yeah. Yeah, yeah, in in in many different ways, and it it really shapes the culture of somewhere where the you either need aggression as part of your job or you don't. Exactly. And it is night and day difference between those units, you know.

SPEAKER_01 37:14

Because there are going to be scenarios where you don't have time to think about the what-ifs, because the what ifs by the time you do that, you A, you've lost the momentum or you're dead. You know, um, so it's it's not like you're not thinking, but the the additional questions become less, right? You like command decisions are made and you just go with it and then adjust on the move or on the flight. And I think that's another thing I love about Power Edge is you know people go, Oh yeah, Power Edge amongst and blah blah blah blah blah. But blokes are switched on because we're able to adapt in a situation on the move, like thinking on our feet in high pressure situations. Not many units can do that. You see that all the time. The black blokes just doing that.

SPEAKER_05 38:22

Well, I think most units can do it, it's just a question of to what standards, you know.

SPEAKER_01 38:26

Uh I'm gonna step stand my ground on that.

unknown 38:31

Okay, okay.

SPEAKER_01 38:32

Alright, and I'm talking uh I'm not talking SF or anything, I'm just talking general army. Yeah, they're I'm not saying they're they don't have it, they're just it's not it's not the same. You know, they're there's a delayed thought process for me. Blows just go out and do it. You see it all the time. Blows just do it. Anything they do. One thing you do, look at the what Parish blows go out and do. It's there, the mind because of the mindset. Yeah, it's just for me, it's like, oh this is happening. Oh yeah, oh shit. What can I do? Yeah, make shit happen. Blokes make things happen all the time.

SPEAKER_05 39:25

Why did you um why did you join up in the first place?

SPEAKER_01 39:28

What what was well I came from Jamaica, believe it or not. As in you so you're born in Jamaica, born in Jamaica, grew up in Jamaica, uh, left here at 15, 14, 15, came over, went to school, did six years, joined the Reg in '95. End of 95.

SPEAKER_05 39:48

Oh, so you remember Jamaica then? Oh yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 39:51

Um how come you ended up coming over? Uh mum moved over, got married. Just one of those scenarios. But I was I always wanted to join the military. Uh, when I was in Jamaica, I wanted to join the military. Uh, so I came over, joined the cadets.

SPEAKER_05 40:10

So you're in Jamaica, you want to join the British military?

SPEAKER_01 40:12

No, the Jamaican Army. Yeah. Jamaican Army, I wanted to join the city. That would have been a wild ride. It would have been, it would have been a wild ride. Yes. Um, so then I moved over here, uh, then joined the cadets. Um, and this is how I then got an understanding of the rest of the British Army, the different units, etc., because I was in the cadets. So then I was like, and then one of the instructors, funny enough, was uh ex parade. And then you asked questions, and then I went away and read stuff. I read The Green Eyed Boys.

SPEAKER_05 40:46

Oh, great book.

SPEAKER_01 40:48

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 40:48

What a book.

SPEAKER_01 40:50

That was my sort of like decision point. Green Eyed Boys. That's a good book, mate.

SPEAKER_05 40:54

Highly recommend to people. Green Eyed Boys is an account of the Falkland Islands, the Falklands campaign.

SPEAKER_01 41:00

Brilliant book. What a book. Uh, and that was like the the decision point after reading that.

SPEAKER_05 41:06

Yeah, the account of the Falklands, three power in the Falklands, specifically, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 41:11

Yeah, so that that was like uh the moment I knew I wanted to join uh PowerEdge. It was a th it was a thing, but I you know was I wasn't sure and that until I read that book. And then I that was it.

SPEAKER_05 41:26

So did you have military in the family already?

SPEAKER_01 41:29

No, no, I'm the only military person in my family. Um just it's just it was just a thing. Some people know and some people fall into it. I knew I wanted to join the army or a uniform service of some description because when I was like, I'm gonna join the army, no, you can't join the army, all right. I'm gonna join the police. No, you can't join the police.

SPEAKER_05 41:55

When you're gonna drive to the uniform service or military, why why why did you want to do that? What was motivating you?

SPEAKER_01 42:01

I don't know. It's it's uh the way I see it is an intrinsic need to serve, to look after your community, it's just to look after the people around you. Um so for me, that fulfills me protecting, looking after, helping, coaching, all of that.

SPEAKER_05 42:36

So are you sort of doing that from a young age? Did you have that mindset from a young age?

SPEAKER_01 42:42

I would say I would say so, yeah. Just it's just uh one of those things. Uh I like I like to help people, I like to see people grow. I like to see people succeed, especially if they're part of my team or close to me. I like to, you know, like, oh, what do you need? How can I help you? That's another reason why R2 Bean2 exists. Because it started off with a conversation, like, how can I help you, mate? Oh, I've got this project. You do you I need somebody to help me set it up and run it? All right. So whilst that was happening, I was waiting around for other things to fall in place for it to go off. And then I um I was like, then I started noticing other things, and I was like, hey, let's do this, let's set up R2B2 because it can help veterans that are doing stuff. I didn't want to be another organization trying to do something.

SPEAKER_05 43:41

So the the coffee company wasn't set up to sell coffee.

SPEAKER_01 43:44

No, it's set up to help the likes of the Bloc Armed Forces Foundation. If you don't know what it is, I know the block, yeah. Colin Eastway up in uh go and look at it, support it, support her with everything you got because it is such a Great project.

SPEAKER_05 44:01

You serve the colony, did you? Yes.

SPEAKER_01 44:02

Yeah. But that's not the reason why I support it. It's just what he's doing. You got all these massive behemoth um charities that are not doing half of what he's doing or achieving. And any support that I can channel towards that, I will. But it's not just them, it's any other sort of like organizations like him at that level that need the support. That's the reason our two beans there. So it it then channels the support to them. You don't need to be another thing pulling money away. Why not be the thing that pushes money towards them? So that's what why I set it up for that.

SPEAKER_05 44:47

I said to donate to the block.

SPEAKER_01 44:49

The block and others, yeah. And others, and you know, community projects, sponsorships, all of that sort of stuff. It's like you know, I call the to I coin the term coffee that builds community. That's the whole reason that exists.

SPEAKER_05 45:07

Explain for people what the block does.

SPEAKER_01 45:10

So the block is uh a charity that pulls homeless veterans off the road off the ground. Um, it houses them. I love it, I love the concept because the rooms look like a single man room in the block.

SPEAKER_03 45:22

I don't know.

SPEAKER_01 45:23

It's it's a brilliant concept, it's it's it creates a familiar environment.

SPEAKER_03 45:29

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 45:31

Yeah, um, and then it have that little common room area as well. Um but what it does, it gets them in, it finds out what they need, and it then it proper pathways them to that. And it's all veterans talking to veterans and getting them the support they need, whether it's courses, whether it's um uh mental health support, all of those things. You know, it puts them in accommodation, gets them off the street, gets them right. But he's only got what, eight or ten rooms? It's not a lot. Um, but you have all these other big agencies pulling, pulling in money, not and just not doing anything with it, just paying out food. In some ways, I think so. The charity sector's a big scam in some ways.

SPEAKER_05 46:20

I was gonna say I just about to say the charity sector's got problems, but it's got major problems. I I I wanna s I wanna like shout, I wanna shout on social media and say, if you are thinking of setting up a charity, don't fucking do it. Like honestly, I I it's just it needs uh it needs massive reform. The charities out there doing good work. Most charities are not I would say are not. Most charities are not serving us a purpose that other charities can't support already. Um and uh and a lot of charities are are literally lifestyle vehicles, unfortunately, lifestyle vehicles for people, or they're set up for the wrong reasons, they're set up as a vanity project or a sat there, or they're set up to for for someone hunting for an MBE or hunting for some for you know for some other like recognition like that. Yeah, look at me, I'm doing this, yeah, exactly, and there's so many of them, and and a lot of them, a lot of the veteran charities are set up for exactly like that.

SPEAKER_01 47:20

And I and I didn't want to be that, I didn't want to be that because there's too much of that, and I didn't want to become part of that thing. I I just wanted to go, right, that's a good charity, they're doing good work, pump some money towards them. Uh Combat Stress does good work um as well, believe it or not. I believe they've got to do that. Yeah, they did they did they did they?

SPEAKER_05 47:44

I know they've done some good work, I know they've done some bad work. Yeah, like more, but but the th the thing is that um charities depend on sick, ill people, you know, and I think a lot of the time, especially with veteran charities, it it is in veterans' charities' interests, a lot of veterans' charities' interests, for them to to perve uh to to contribute to this uh this misconception that all ex-military are broken broken, yeah, you know, and all ex-military have got you know they they just they're they're just one they're one uh bad decision or one bad event away from having a fucking breakdown. And it's not the case. And I think it really does harm. I think it does harm to the community, you know. Uh a good charity, a good charity should want the should should want to go out go out of business because they haven't got anyone else to fix, you know, and I think um and they should all be run as they they should all be like run as short-term, not short term, they should all be run as projects. They should have if a charity's gonna set up, you know, I think they should have a clear goal in sight, which it was your smart objectives, you know, specific, measurable, achievable, realistic and time, time, time bound, you know, uh, and look to achieve those tangible things that can progress to fixing something, yeah, you know, actually achievable. And most don't, you know, and so why are you setting up then? You're not trying to fix something, you're just trying to, you know, you're trying to serve a need you think exists, which probably doesn't, because that needs probably met by other charities. Uh, and you're actually just gonna you're just gonna support the ongoing bad situation that has required this anyway, and dilute dilute resources, um, I mean, don't get me wrong, there's blokes out there that are chances, right?

SPEAKER_01 49:45

And they'll go out there and like, yeah, I've got this, and I, you know, and but there's chances in every part of society where if there's something for free, somebody's gonna work out how to get it. And this is what people understand. If it's free, people will work out a way to get it because it's free, right? Whether they need it or not. Because it's free. Um, so yeah, there's charities out there, you see them, they don't take on things unless they're big and sexy or make them look good, right? But that's not where it is, it's like right down in the wheeze and the nitty-gritty, doing the the proper stuff, getting the proper accreditation so they can deliver proper services. Most of them steer away from that because it's too hard. All right, takes a lot of time, takes a lot of resources. Not interested in doing those things, they don't they don't want it. Um, so I I I don't donate to any of them. I won't name any call out any charities specifically, but I am very careful now where I I put my money or when it comes to that.

SPEAKER_05 50:58

Yeah, I will occasionally, but it if I am going to and I decide to, then it will it's almost always a small independent organization, which I know you know very it's running very lean, is serving a very specific need, and I know has done actually good good work, normally for people I know, you know.

SPEAKER_03 51:20

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 51:21

And I don't see any harm, and I know that there's honest, honest, good people behind it.

SPEAKER_01 51:25

Exactly.

SPEAKER_05 51:26

You know, and most of these organizations that I've done that for in the past are one-man bands, you know, one-man bands, and and they're not lifestyle vehicles. And you know, m most, if not all, of the money that they get donated goes towards serving the need that they say they exist for, which can't be said the same for most. You know, you look at the big organizations like uh Helper Heroes, Combat Stress, uh Safa, um RBL, you know, the I understand like I understand why you need to pay big wages to people who run those organizations. I'm not just talking about the CEO, I'm talking about others, you know, other other senior leadership, you know, so I understand it needs to be you need to pay well. It's a big organization, it needs to be run well, you need to pay well to get the talent in. I've got no issue with that whatsoever. You know, whether that's fucking six figures or whether whatever, but I don't see a problem. Um but those organizations are so big that back to my point earlier, that what they the all like their their marketing, their branding, their objectives is all around their survival, yeah, as opposed to serving the need. You know? If you I mean if you look at healthy heroes when the Afghan campaign stopped and and so they weren't very and the Aharat campaign stopped, and so there weren't very many people, you know, needing that kind of support, that healthy heroes were riding at the time, you know, to people who were physically injured mainly, but also you know, who had um psychological problems. Uh healthy heroes did a massive pivot to uh to other stuff focusing on primarily the mental health. Now, I don't feel like they plugged a gap. They didn't plug a gap there. No, no, no. It was already supporting place. Um and I understand why I I understand why they did it, but also they shouldn't it shouldn't be the case. So help for heroes met a need, they existed for a need, they met a need. Well, well, just all in an ideal world, all done. Let's just close it down now because there's other organizations serving a purpose. Now, the counter-argument to that is well, they're an established organization, and I'm not picking on help for heroes, it's just the example. They're an established organization, they've got all this infrastructure in place to support people. Uh, so let's put it to good use and do another things. Well, yeah, I understand that, but also it's just another charity now, like serving another need, and it it saturates the it saturates the market. Yes, you know, and there's competition then between other charities, you know. It's like fucking hell, man. It shouldn't be the case.

SPEAKER_01 54:08

It depletes it depletes the funds, it it takes money away from smaller charities that are actually on the ground doing the work. Um, so for me, yeah, I agree. I would I don't donate to health for heroes, I'll never do that. I'm not um when they first came out, I thought they did good work.

SPEAKER_05 54:28

But now they supported me in the past in a big way, you know. Um I'm very I'm very I'm very grateful, even though I've just slung them under the bus, under the bus slightly.

SPEAKER_01 54:38

They get become unnecessarily massive, right? You you can be a charity that's successful without becoming a behemoth, right? Which is what they do, they get that all these things, and you're like, why do you need all those things? What what does it add? What does it deliver? And you know, I'd I'd like to be able to see, hey, we raised 10 million and like a proper detail accountability of where that 10 million went, how much of it is paying for infrastructure and wages versus how much of it is paying for uh supporting the people that you're raising the money for? How much infrastructure do you need? Right? And how much of that can be outsourced to other charities? Still be you be you because you might have a bigger profile, but why not outsource that but make sure the funding or the financing is going down that down that route to for them to achieve the goals that they're trying to achieve? And I agree with you. The whole point of a charity should it should not exist because it's fixed the problem or it's allowed society and the government to put things in place, and uh part of this is the government offloading some of its responsibilities though to the charity sector.

SPEAKER_05 56:07

Yeah, yeah. It'd be interesting to see how the how the sector would change if there was like if they brought in rules that were like uh okay, you know, because when because when you set up a charity, you've got to put in your what do they call them, like your missions, your your um initiatives or something like that, you've got to do what you what you're trying to achieve. It'd be interesting if you brought in just two measures and two two requirements for set if for setting up a charity when you register register with the charity commission, and that would be your objectives need to be smart goals, they need to be like split all of the things that you need to measure, they're tangible, so you can see if there's progress being made. Uh, and the the life of the charity needs to be time-bound. So this is a charity that is going to achieve these things and the plan and they think they can do it within two years, and you go, okay, that's it, two years, your fucking time is up. You know, that that would be the rule. Uh and I'm just thinking out out on the fly here when I'm talking about this. Uh, and maybe there's a limit that a charity wouldn't be allowed to exist for any more than two years or three years. Wait a second. Excuse me. Bless you. Um and after that it shuts down, you know, and and the and the quality checks would be are the goals if the charity commission would look at it and go, are the goals of charity set? Are these realistic? Are they achievable? Do they make sense? Can they be measured? Okay, no, we'll fuck off then. You know, you your goal of reducing mental health illnesses, or your goal of increasing mental health awareness. No, that's not. That's not a goal. That's bullshit. Bugger off. You're not setting up a charity for increasing mental health awareness. Because those ones which have ambiguous, open, ambiguous goals, these are the ones that are not, these are the nonsense. They're just nonsense. Okay, a lot are often the lifestyle vehicles, like we said. Yeah, they're not delivering anything. You know, like because I think it'd be a lot less appetiting set of a charity if you actually had to measure the effectiveness of what you're doing, and there was an end state in mind.

SPEAKER_01 58:07

There should be publicly available, publicly available impact. But what have you achieved this year? Yeah, and it should be released, mandated, right? This is what you achieved this year, this is how much money we raised, and this is how we spent it, and this is what we achieved.

SPEAKER_05 58:24

Yeah, I was about to say I don't like that this is how we spent it. I don't like that because so help of heroes back to help the heroes, help of heroes ended up sitting on loads of cash, right? Because people donated loads, and they had loads of money. They had a lot, and they literally couldn't do enough to get rid of it.

SPEAKER_01 58:44

No, no, no. I'm not saying they have to get rid of it. So if they've got money and hold, it's irrelevant. Um I'm just saying this is how this is these are the things we spent it on. So it doesn't spend it on, yeah.

SPEAKER_05 58:55

Yeah, so maybe I read it's value spent, but not a KPI in my mind. Yeah, no. I mean, oh we spent 10 million on veterans.

SPEAKER_01 59:02

No, no, no. No, no, no. No, no, no, no, that's not what I meant. I don't mean get it in and and burn it.

SPEAKER_03 59:08

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 59:08

But show where it's going, show the impact it's having. That's what I'm saying. Doesn't matter if you you're sitting on a load of funds, great, because that means you're not you're not constantly desperate for money. But it should be you should be showing the impact of that fund. Yeah. That that because too many, yeah, yeah, their value statements quite wishy-washy. Oh, yeah, we did this and we did that. But there's, you know, here's here's here's how much came in, here's how much we're sitting on, and these are the things we did with what we did with this year. A yearly impact, right? Open, completely open, so that people can see the impact you're having, um, and the reason why you're there. So then they can say, Yep, I I like that, I still value what you're doing, I will continue to donate. Um, because then it is there, it's shown.

SPEAKER_05 1:00:07

Yeah. Yeah, no, I agree. It needs a it needs a drastic overhaul. And I'm sorry if anyone uh who's just who's just started up a charity, literally, and and we're saying don't fucking start them up, but yeah, if you've got any like it's not gonna go the way you want it, and and and also charity work is hideously, hideously difficult. Oh my gosh. It's craft. Oh my god, honestly. Um one of the I interviewed a Marine years ago, uh ex uh Marine officer called Rich Sharp. And at the time he was CEO of a charity, and that is gonna that means CEO of a charity is a harder job than CEO of a pick a company. It's just harder because you're constantly in fundraising mode, constantly, you're always skint, yeah, and you're always you're always skint, so you always need more money, and you're always running lean. Lean is an understatement, you know. You just you just constantly with your hat in your hands asking for asking for cash to do whatever you need to do. Hideous job.

SPEAKER_01 1:01:09

Yeah, but that's the thing though, yeah. He would have been delivering something great, but then you have all of these other things out there pulling the resources away from his need. Yeah, and that's that that's where I take on bridge with uh the scenarios like that, because you got all these little things over here pulling away the resources that that great thing needs there, that it's there, it's purpose-driven, and it will get get your results, it's not getting the funding.

SPEAKER_05 1:01:43

Yeah, yeah. I mean, if if you are just people listen, if you are thinking about starting a charity or or have been for a while, and I've just burst your bubble there. If you're looking for an itch to scratch in that in that way, my advice is find a charity that so almost certainly what you're planning on doing with the charity you're gonna start up is being met by them. Other charities are probably doing it already, they're already doing what you're talking about, and maybe you think you can do it better, right? You're not gonna be able to do it better because you're starting up a new charity, so it's gonna be a fucking hard work to get on board with that. My my advice is find another organization that is doing what you what what um what you want to do in terms of supporting whatever charitable thing you think you need to support, and help them get better at providing the care. There already exists as an organization, and so help them do whatever it needs to be. Whether that's a military charity, whether it's something else, cancer, cancer research, whatever, whatever else it is, you know, help them do whatever they they do better as opposed to starting up yourself. Honestly, it's just don't do it. The sector is fucking screwed, yeah, screwed, needed to talk overall, mate. It's a shame. Um, anyway, we've got a load, mate. We've got loads of questions, actually.

SPEAKER_02 1:02:52

Oh shit.

SPEAKER_05 1:02:55

So um you mentioned, I think on the icebreaker, so you mentioned um you know there's bad operators everywhere, you get bad operators everywhere, power edge, boot necks, uh, power edge marines, and um you know RAF. Uh what so the question you have from Coke in the in the YouTube chat is what would happen to those bad operators in SFSG? Would they get beaten up? I've mentioned I've mentioned on the podcast in the past that you know sometimes uh people who are not good at their job sometimes will get filled in or will get a dick in order to try and get them better at their job. Not all the time, but sometimes.

SPEAKER_01 1:03:35

In your experience, back in the day, you used to get the three o'clock knock. Three o'clock knock. Yeah, um, but that's I I think that's changed now. Um the systems change, processes have changed. To get there, you have to like now to get in in the unit, you have to you have to go for a course. It's not uh selection, but it's a course to make sure you you can meet the standards. So you're less likely to have bad operators there because every nobody wants to be the org that has blokes that are not cutting the mustard within within that environment because it has tangible uh backlash to it, yeah. So there is you know processes put in place, so you you're less likely to get it. Yes, you'll get the few that slip through the net, but you're the the things that they put in place now are just it's just on another level, and and then there is all this continuous training that goes on. So you you're either on leave or not, or you're training. That's it. There is so there is no real treading water. There's no treading water, you just you're busy, they are busy, you don't see the guys. They're doing one of those three things or on a course, take it back on a course for career progression. Uh, but yeah, it's just it's constant, and if you're not up to it, you'll just get pushed out.

SPEAKER_05 1:06:14

Another question you have in the in the chat uh from Koch, there was a clip of an R uh there was a clip of a Raf Reg officer saying Raf Reg was outperforming the Marines and Paras in SFSG. What are your thoughts on that quote?

SPEAKER_01 1:06:35

Don't know what planet is.

SPEAKER_04 1:06:36

Are they measured against each other?

SPEAKER_01 1:06:37

I don't I well maybe they do, but I don't I mean th the the companies are mixed. So they weren't before, but they are they're just all mixed now. So maybe Not from what I when I was there, not from what I was seeing as an outsider looking into the companies.

SPEAKER_05 1:06:56

Oh, so it's in a documentary about two squadron rough reg. Yeah, but the same documentary says in the real two para, apparently.

SPEAKER_01 1:07:03

Yeah, well, there you go. There you go. So you know, it's again, there's that competition, you know. It's uh we're we're gonna say that. Um I mean the to to work in that environment, you all have to be good. So it's not about outperforming in that sense. You all have to be at the same level or better, yeah. Um like I said, there's gonna be standouts in each org. Yeah, yeah. I mean, you see, in our own, you know, forget about everybody in a in a in a section, in a platoon, in a company, in the battalion, you know, top third, middle third, bottom third. Everybody has it.

SPEAKER_05 1:07:50

Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. All right, question from the that got carried over from the icebreaker accused. Um how much racism or other abuse did you experience or witness in Power Reg? By other abuse, I think it just means in general, because I've talked, and the guests have talked about very, you know, um, when we talk about the aggression, very masculine environment, you know, violence plays a part of did so certainly when I joined. Um, but what about the race racism side? Ever experienced racism when you're in? Yeah. But it got clamped down. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:08:31

Yeah. Um, can you I remember when my within my first few days, maybe a week or whatever, somebody came up to me and he he just looked at me and he went, All right, Sambo. Right? I was talking to somebody else.

SPEAKER_05 1:08:49

Did you know this guy?

SPEAKER_01 1:08:49

Huh?

SPEAKER_05 1:08:50

Did you know the guy who said that?

SPEAKER_01 1:08:51

No, because I'd I was a new guy. I was a new bloke, and I was talking to an NCO. Another, I think it was a senior Tom or a Landshak at the time, come up, and he just went, All right, Sambo. However, the other guy went, oi. And he clamped it down there and then told him never to do it again.

SPEAKER_05 1:09:18

What does Sambo refer to?

SPEAKER_01 1:09:20

It's like it's like a derogatory term for a black guy, isn't it?

SPEAKER_05 1:09:24

I've never heard that term. Right, okay. I I was googling it there. Okay, right, I didn't know that.

SPEAKER_01 1:09:28

Um and it got clamped down there and then right there and then in that moment. And that was it. I mean, you are blokes, you get racism in every walk of life you go, right? But it's only there if you look for it and you let it bother you.

SPEAKER_05 1:09:48

Yeah, I think a lot also a lot of times things get misrepresented as racism if I mean.

SPEAKER_01 1:09:53

Exactly, that's what I mean. You look for it. Yeah, you're looking for something to be racist.

SPEAKER_05 1:09:57

Yeah, like my my way I would say it, if I like if I was to uh if I was to treat you differently, purely based on the colour of your skin, as in treat you like negatively or worse than somebody.

SPEAKER_01 1:10:18

The reason I say this is like there is this not so much now, but when I enjoyed the reg, there's like I had I heard blokes talk like I fucking hate, you know, and then but then then they go, not you, mate, because you're reg. You know it's like and so there is a like a weird dynamic there.

SPEAKER_05 1:10:43

So but it's you're talking 20 odd. Yeah, exactly.

SPEAKER_01 1:10:46

I'm 20 odd years ago, so the things have moved on now. The world is different, the world is different, yeah, exactly.

SPEAKER_05 1:10:52

So not that I'm defending that behaviour.

SPEAKER_01 1:10:54

No, no, no, no, but at the end of the day, though them same blokes actually lived up to that statement. If they see you in a fight, they've got your back regardless. Which is weird.

SPEAKER_05 1:11:08

So well, I think it's because they don't they they don't truly believe what it is they think about in this in this case, black people, they don't truly believe it. Yeah, I think that they couldn't if they truly believed it, they wouldn't have you back. No, they wouldn't they wouldn't want to work with you, they wouldn't treat you in any way. Yeah, but that but it's like this it it they they think like that because it's the way they've been brought up and the way they think they need to be here because of whatever social environment family environment they grew up in. They don't really believe it. No, you know, they're like the they're like the the the sort of the the paper mache racist, aren't they? Not a real you know, not a full-blown you know, you see what point of making it's like if they actually sat down, if they actually sat down and you know and did some introspection and had a conversation themselves, they probably work out like oh there's no reason like me to like treat this person differently to this person because it doesn't make any you know they're making and this is why this is what I mean is I um like I look at it that way because I must say it is that you you you probably get that more out in civic street than you do in our environment. Get what more?

SPEAKER_01 1:12:24

Like people will like call you names or treat you differently or behave differently around you.

SPEAKER_05 1:12:32

Oh yeah, I mean yeah, I mean PowerEge uh and probably most other infantry units. I can't speak for them because I've not been in them, but powered at the very least is is all how you were treated is it's basically almost entirely a meritocracy. How you are treated is almost all about what you are capable of regarding the job, which is exactly why the paper mache racist guy. Yeah, like not you, not you, Ron. Because basically you're saying because I know you're good and you can do the job, so that's it, you're part of the crew, but not there, Moo can't do it. Do you know what I mean? Yeah, exactly. It's a example of that meritocracy side. So there are isolated cases. Oh, obviously, yeah, obviously there is, and you know, some of the most outspoken racist people I've ever I've ever met have been met when I was serving. I could think of a few South Africans I swear with you and go, My god, yeah, my god, you know, but at the same time, we're serving with people who of the skin colours they didn't like, you know, no issues. I know no issues, different world, it was way different world.

SPEAKER_01 1:13:44

I agree with that 100% agree with that because you're like we've done the same thing, we're the same people, so they see you differently.

SPEAKER_05 1:13:52

But then you get then you also get which you then you also get so you touched on and I spoke you're talking about pushing the pushing the bar, pushing the envelope, and just you know, of of uh capability and behaviour, and and we talk about aggression and stuff. You also get that in the way we inter interact with each other socially and the things we will say to each other. Oh we will say even I'm sure that you had some pretty racist stuff said to you, but in the context of it, in the situation that's funny, exactly, and you've probably given it back. I'm I'm hypothesizing. I'm hypothesis, I'm only saying this because I've seen it myself and done it myself. There is nothing off the table. I have been racially abused, right, by Fijians, beast of me. Fijians twice the size of me in the context of it, whatever, you know, but it's funny, and and there's and there's I think it's those situations where now oh man, they're difficult situations as well. No, because you can get that morally wrong.

SPEAKER_01 1:14:51

No, because because no, because if it's people that you know, they know how far they can go. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. So there's always an element of the person that it's an outsider coming in and do it, then yeah, I am I'll be like, who the fuck are you, mate? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, yeah. And then there's gonna be a conversation being had, yeah. Um probably physical. Yeah, yeah, uh, Princess uh Sambo comments yeah, exactly. Um but in your environment where we all know each other, let's face it, there is nothing off the table when it comes to Bants and taking the piss out of it and beasty. It's there is oh there is nothing that's taboo. Let's face it.

SPEAKER_05 1:15:40

Yeah, I think do you know I yeah, I I think I've mentioned this a couple of times before on different podcasts about nothing exactly you said, nothing's off the table. Everything's on when you are bantering. Okay, it's when when you were serving, especially when you were in your in your more junior ranks, it should also was your experience the same as mine in that almost every interaction I had with anyone, which wasn't work, you know, we were just around each other, but it was just constant ribbing, it was just constant insults, constant piss taking, and I mean constant, non-stop. You had to be in your guard all the time. Yeah, he never knew what someone if someone was saying was gonna be a piss take or not. Yeah, it was it was just mental, mental. And and when we talk, so was your experience the same?

SPEAKER_01 1:16:29

Yeah, yeah. I got I got stitched up by one of the vlokes uh in a singer in Ireland where he asked me about he's like, uh, what do you think about crows?

SPEAKER_02 1:16:39

I'm like, what do you think about crows?

SPEAKER_01 1:16:41

Crows, because obviously we call each other crows, yeah. And I'm like, why the fucking crows? I'm not a crow. Crows go and he was recording me on his dictaphone. And then because it's in our little multiple, uh, then it goes and it played by the blokes. I got so much grief for that for the rest of the tour. Absolutely hammered, mate. Um, but yeah, but that's what it's just it's bad, isn't it?

SPEAKER_05 1:17:13

Yeah, it is, but the level it goes to, I don't think people understand that. As in people who are not military, because probably most I'd say most infantry units probably experience this kind of the same thing, maybe to the same degree, maybe I I don't know, right? But people who haven't, when we say everything's on the table, everything is ever that means everything about you. Yep. Everything about you. So if the blokes know, for example, that if the guys know that, let's just hypothesise me. If the guys know that I'm an orphan, you know, I'm not an orphan, I'm an orphan, I lost my children, my my my parents when I was young, and I don't know some of the like details about me, that is gonna get used against me. Oh yeah, everything at some point it's gonna get used against me, it's gonna get used against me for the sake of laughter and banter, you know, and uh and they are the ultimate character tests. How you handle a situation exactly ultimate character tests, don't show emotion. Oh god, you end up getting a skin thicker than thir thicker than rhino skin, depending on who you are, because some people have got more shit to be taken out of them than others, yeah. For example, you right? For example, me, like ginger, yeah, you know, it's one of those physical, you can visibly see the difference. You are different to most other people, just for ginger, but your back off of this is what stage can get you on it. Yeah, yeah. It's like someone's got a thin neck, they've spot everything. Someone's got a thin neck, someone's got massive hands, someone's got a massive head, whatever. You're just gonna get rid of it. Exactly. You've got a mole, don't have a mole, you don't have a mole in your face, don't have acne.

SPEAKER_01 1:18:52

No, one of the blogs got called wiggnot because he his ears stuck out. You know what I mean?

SPEAKER_05 1:18:57

Don't let people know you've got a sister, don't let people know you got other people in the military, don't let people know I don't know, you've only got two GCSEs and one of them's in religious education. You know, it's it's anything. It's nails.

SPEAKER_01 1:19:08

Before I joined the Reg, I met a guy called Mark Barber, he was uh X ex-reg as well. And he went, when you get a depot, they go, they don't pick on you, right? Because they want to see what you're made of. Yeah, right. They will pick on you, they will call you names, you know.

SPEAKER_05 1:19:25

They want to see if you're gonna lose your temper.

SPEAKER_01 1:19:27

Exactly. It's basically where it is. Yeah, exactly. He's like, they're gonna push you, yeah, just suck it up, yeah. And he was right, but everybody, everybody there had a nickname of some descript where the the screws would uh call you a name or something. What was funny is like uh I can't remember the name what it was. One of the guys came, new Joe or New Bloke, came to Battalion, and I was chatting to him, and he said something, and I called him a name. And he went, Oh, my my screws are calling me that. And I was like, It's a Power Rage hive mind, we're like the Borg. Um what was the name? I can't remember, mate. I just remembered, I just remember that last part of the statement, which is kind of true. Yeah, we we have this like similar thought process of how we go about doing things, and it's easy, yes. Not everybody within the all gets over.

SPEAKER_05 1:20:34

Yeah, it's true. It's interesting. Yeah, interesting, it's amusing. Yeah, he's fucked. You know, if you've got if if there's something obviously different about you, you just fucked.

SPEAKER_01 1:20:41

Oh, yeah, it's gonna get it's gonna get picked up, it's gonna get picked on. I think somebody, I can't remember who it was. One of both got got called Gonzo because he had a massive nose. I can't remember who it was, yeah, but everybody had a name, so like some of the links are obscure as well, though, right?

SPEAKER_05 1:20:59

There was there's a guy he's still in the guy called uh finished price, call him Pricey, and uh do you see that the scream painting by is it Monet does that scream painting? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Right. Well, this guy Pricey, his head is the shape of this painting head, and they call him fucking scream head. It's the most obscure connection, or is it Van Gogh? Van Gogh is it Van Gogh?

SPEAKER_00 1:21:26

I think it might.

SPEAKER_05 1:21:27

Is it Van Gogh? Uh no, uh it is Van Gogh, yeah. Yeah, it is Van Gogh. And the paint is called like this the scream. Edward Munch. Edward Munch, the Scream, yeah. That and he let his head looks the shape, same shape as that person. They call him Scream Head.

SPEAKER_01 1:21:43

You know, blows get called melon head, moonhead, balloon head. You know what I mean? You name it. They got people get called all sorts of names, it's just never-ending. Yeah, yeah, I just want to love the fellow.

SPEAKER_05 1:21:56

If you're not prepared for it, it's horrific. Yeah, horrific.

SPEAKER_01 1:21:58

Exactly.

SPEAKER_05 1:21:59

Yeah, all right. Uh okay, we've got more questions here. Let's have a look. Um do you think that um Poweredge had or has a problem with bullying? Nope. Okay, quick answer.

SPEAKER_01 1:22:23

Let me let me say why I said no so fast. Come back up with that mic for a I've never been bullied. Uh I've never seen anybody being bullied. I mean, if you're not if you're not cutting the mustard, people are gonna grip you. And if you get if you think being gripped is bullying, then you're in the wrong organization. Right.

SPEAKER_05 1:22:46

Yeah, it does go too far sometimes. Oh, I've definitely seen it. Yeah, you know.

SPEAKER_01 1:22:49

Oh, oh well, then people need to step up and and stamp it out.

SPEAKER_05 1:22:54

Yeah, yeah. It's when it's when the banter and that and also the because obviously you can get some physical tussling, you know, physical, like like like fucking young guys do. Yeah, that can also go too far. You know, and I was I I've mentioned this before, I was definitely part of a group of guys uh when I was early in my career, and it was taken there was one of the you know there was it was definitely taking too far points where I think fucking when you look back in hindsight and go, that went too far there. And we made that person feel like shit, I think, and just made his life a misery. It went beyond banter, like too far. Yeah, you know, I think and uh those situations and we didn't intend to that, it was just he sort of hindsight and go, huh. I reckon he didn't feel too great about that, yeah. You know, and if I ever meet that guy again, which I probably will at some point, it'll be a big fat fucking apology, you know. It's probably shit for you, you know. But you know, young, dumb, and young, dumb and full of uh for beans.

SPEAKER_01 1:23:55

Maybe I was just fortunate because I remember when I got to battalion, um, another another scenario, and I got to battalion, new bloke, blokes are going out in the lash, and uh they come back in from the lash and they dragged us up and they were making us drink making us drink booze and stuff like that. You quickly learn to keep your doors locked and your curtains pulled, right? Uh the four-man rooms, you know, like lock your door and pretend that you're not heard. You know, oh I have my affairs thing is, yeah. Right. Um, and um one of the blokes uh we're in there and they're just beasting us. And one of the blokes started to get a little bit physical, and uh, and then one of the other blokes was like, Don't fucking do that, right? So maybe I was just fortunate at the time I joined that the geezers that were there just yeah, just had a line that they wouldn't cross.

SPEAKER_05 1:24:51

I I think most of the time that is the case. Yeah, I do, you know. I and uh you've talked about basic controls, you know, yeah, like adults in the room adults, but you know, people in the room who are who will say, you know, call a stop, like the samble comment. Yeah, perfect example, like the example you just gave, perfect example. You go, hey, this is too fucking far, you know. Um have have have the ability to do that and a present to do that. And I think that's the case most of the time. There are some there are some cases where it isn't, you know, yeah. Depends where you are, what you are, what what's going on, the situation and who who's around, basically. You know, and um I think you know, it's probably most of the time I was in excellent role models around me, you know, excellent group, I excellent groups I was in with, you know, socially, should we say, or or or as part of from it from a military unit perspective, you know, section platoon company level, you know, and uh but sometimes it it wasn't not. It was short periods where it wasn't always like that. It's just the nature of big organizations, right?

SPEAKER_01 1:25:51

Yeah, you know. Well, there's a bloke there, I call him a dad, right? Calling you dad. No, I call him my dad, and he calls me son, right? And he's only about maybe eight years, maybe nine years older than me, something like that. It's like, all right, dad, all right, son. And it's just like you have these you know, bits within the org.

SPEAKER_05 1:26:11

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Uh okay, what else do we got? Um what was the hardest mindset mindset mindset shift that you had to that you underwent from transitioning from the military into basically you know tech now? That question's from David.

SPEAKER_01 1:26:38

Um there's I'll I'll take it back a step. Bryce working with the RES.

SPEAKER_04 1:26:47

Bryce Norton, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:26:48

Um the mindset shift was how you communicated with people. That was hard, right? Because you can't communicate how when you went to Bryce, you mean? Yes, okay. But then I then went from Bryce to uh from the last few years, and that obviously we went back into that style of communication, and then when you when you leave how you say things, certain comments. Oh, you know, unfortunate for me, I was budded up with a guy that was a reservist, and I used to say things, and you could see him doing like backblast checks when we're in the office. I'll be like, hey Rich. And I'm like, and they'd be like, Rowan! You can't say that. You can't so it's what what what we thought as acceptable um in the reg or just in the military was just not acceptable in Civistreet.

SPEAKER_05 1:27:44

Well, what is acceptable in the military is not acceptable in Civil Street, not what we thought was acceptable, what was acceptable. It's a it's a really good point. Yeah, I've touched on this before in that uh in that um when we're talking about like bullying allegations of the military, when we're talking about spotlight on how different missions were performed, can like basically negative light shown on, especially when it comes to training establishments. Or I'm telling you, oh, oh, they beat me with roll maps, or they made us do roll map, but you know, or they dance to the flaming assholes and this kind of stuff, and and the lightings get shone on it. Or he's he spoke to me in this way, really aggressive, you know, and the way these things are portrayed, and when the lens is on a military life, when there's a civilian lens on it, a newspaper article, for example, exactly to your point, it's being viewed from a civilian perspective. You were looking at planet, you were looking at planet military from planet earth. Planet military is not the same as planet earth. No, you know, and then and on planet military, they've also got like different different countries, and you've got planet power edge, or you've got planet infantry soldier, right? You've got planet power trooper, right? And They've got their own little nuances. If you're looking at that and you're judging what planet flipping infantry, how planet infantry behaves, and and measuring it against planet Earth, how you think it should behave, they're not going to line up. They're two different worlds. Two different worlds, you know, they're very, very, very different. So you're looking at it through the wrong lens because again, we were talking about banter and like nothing's off the table. There is stuff, and it'll be the same here. There have been jokes cracked and things where I go, and I literally go, Oh my god, that is it's fucking hilarious. It's also horrific. Yeah. Like if anyone heard that, if anyone outside of this little group of people, I'm not talking about a WhatsApp channel. I've openly I've openly said that as well. And if anyone heard this conversation, people are going to jail. Yeah. You go to jail, it's a joke, I get it. But the thing you were joking about is hideous.

SPEAKER_01 1:29:44

Absolutely hideous.

SPEAKER_05 1:29:45

You straight to jail, keys getting locked up.

SPEAKER_01 1:29:48

Don't pass go, don't go later too much about.

SPEAKER_05 1:29:50

Yeah, honestly. But in that group, you all know it's a joke. It's that extreme. Yeah, I know. And uh I'm no, I'm not even gonna allude to specifics. Nope. Yeah, but because to your point, like it is beyond taboo. It is beyond taboo. Exactly. Like, if my if my parents or people I love ever heard some of these conversations, I'd be disowned just for being party to the conversation in that band. You know what I mean? Yeah, it's like fucking horrific.

SPEAKER_00 1:30:20

But it goes what the the the thing is Is this really the bar?

SPEAKER_01 1:30:26

No, but the the more I've seen a few people talk about this, especially in like emergency services and stuff like that. They talk about it. Some of it is coping mechanisms, believe it or not, right? Some of it is, not all of it is, some of it is, some of it's just like how you deal with certain scenarios and situations. Because normally some of these macabre things happen when you're in high stress environments, right? And you've got some downtime, yeah. That's when all of that stuff comes out, right? Mostly, if you think back to it, it's mostly when you're in like you've just come out of a high stress situation scenario and you've got some downtime and you're having some vants with each other. I'm gonna need to take a break.

SPEAKER_05 1:31:14

I do too. My bladder's gonna pop. Pause it. We're pausing there. We're back. We are back. Okay, we have got uh we have got a um we've got more questions than you are. Okay, so we're on the subject of joking and stuff. Uh Coke has put into the live stream chat. Did the Paras who shot who shot a photo of Jeremy Corbyn on the range in it was in Afghan, that was. Oh, yeah. Go too far. They were guards, is what they were. They were guards attached to Power Edge. It wasn't Power Edge, it was they were attached to Power Edge, which is why it said it was Power Edge. Do you remember this? They were on an indoor range, I think it was in Kabul. Indoor range, they put photos of Jeremy Corbyn on the targets and shot them. Did they go too far, or was it just an okay joke?

SPEAKER_01 1:32:03

Uh mate, it was dumb, it was dumbass read I mean. If you're gonna do shit like that, A, you don't video it. Right, yeah, all right. Um is it's a joke, yeah.

SPEAKER_05 1:32:15

It's just a joke. It's it's a it's a crime is videoing it.

SPEAKER_01 1:32:17

It is the cra exactly, the crime's getting caught, yeah. All right, don't I I say this to the blokes. If you're if you're up to tomfoolery, don't video it. If blokes weren't there to see it, they weren't meant to see it, don't record stuff. All right, simple. That's my rule. Yeah, I'm sticking to that. Yeah, so yeah, they they fucked up because they videoed it.

SPEAKER_05 1:32:41

Yeah. Uh all right, question from David. Uh so R2 Bean2, yes, which is the coffee company we've already spoken about, and uh it's it's driven by creating a community and supporting smaller veteran charities. Uh the question is why was it important to you to build something that quietly backs others doing the work?

SPEAKER_01 1:33:05

Because it's about them, not about me and what I'm doing, because that's irrelevant. Uh all I'm doing is backing them, right? So, why would I want to take the light off what they're doing? The light should be on what they're doing to lift them. So if R2 Bean2 doesn't exist because I've achieved a goal, then great. But the goal is for these things, not for me to go, oh look at me, look at all the things I'm doing. It's not about that, it's about those ogs. So that's why it's quietly. I don't talk about it too much, I do stuff, and I went, no social media for that, mate, please. Because that's not why I'm doing it. I don't want the recognition for it. That the the whole point is for them to get what they need without giving me any recognition for it. I don't want it, I don't need it. It's not, you know, I'm not searching for internet fame or oh, look at me, look at all these great things that I'm doing. It's not about that. Um it's just not not how I'm cut anyway. It's just it's about the org, so that's why it's about quietly doing it in the background, delivering stuff, and then going and enjoying my life with my family and friends. That's it.

SPEAKER_05 1:34:25

Uh, another question from David. So he says uh a lot of veterans struggle to find purpose after service. From what you've seen, what actually helps people rebuild that sense of identity?

SPEAKER_01 1:34:40

Community. A lot of blokes get out and they cut themselves off because they're trying to make the break. But sometimes they go way too far, you know, they just isolate, they isolate themselves, so then they lose community because part of community helps you understand your purpose, all right? Like, oh mate, I'm thinking of doing this, and somebody will go, Yeah, that's actually a great idea. Have you thought about this? And helps you to channel what your thought process. But when you're doing it on your own, you lose that thing. People then break routine. You gotta remember, if it's done 20 odd years, you every day is a routine, whether you realize it or not, yeah. Every day is a routine, and then you come out and you no longer have that routine. You have to build your own routine. Some blokes are not good at doing that, uh, they like this mandated type structure within their life. So they got to find a way to build that in. And some blokes just don't know how to do that. So that I think part of it is that, but purpose, but then again, what do you want to do? Some blokes don't know what they want to do, but when you don't have when you don't surround yourself with people that are driven, because they come out and they isolate themselves away and they go home and they're just back in Civil Street with people that just want to go down the pub on a Friday, finish work, go to pub, finish work, go to pub, finish work. Where's the purpose? There is none. So you lose yourself. I feel as an element when I got out, or I I did feel lost because I was at home, I wasn't seeing my mates, you know. It was weird, one of one of my mates had killed himself. It was just a shit time, yeah. But fortunate for me, one of my other mates knew me well enough to knew in in our brief communications that something wasn't right. And he's just like, hey mate, what's going on? How are you doing? Fancy a chat. Yeah, do you do so? It's making sure that you have those people around you. Um, because then you then find what you want to do. Some blokes must want to get out and forget the army and forget everybody and do that. That's fine, but other blokes they miss that, they miss the comrade comradeship. So you part of that is finding that civist, unfortunately, does not have the same ethos and and I'm talking, I'm not talking power edge here, I'm just talking military ethos of team, community, having each other's back. They don't, they you know, say things, but they don't mean it. They say it to be nice, but uh, but they don't really mean it. They whereas if you s if I come to you to come to me and say, mate, can you do that? And I go, yes, mate, I'll do that for you. You know you don't have to come back and check if I'm gonna do it, because I've just said, yeah, I'm gonna do it and it's gonna get done. Because that's the environment we've been in together, and yeah, whereas C the Street that doesn't happen. So you lose that. Oh, it makes me annoyed me.

SPEAKER_05 1:38:09

It was the it was the uh fo it was the first thing I learned to dislike when I got out or I had to deal with and adjust to was the lack of accountability and integrity, just generally speaking. Yeah. Obviously, not all not all non-military, but just generally speaking, when you know I just would notice there's people being blatantly not taking accountability for their mistakes or what they're supposed to do, and or lying about things, just a complete lack of integrity there, yeah. Uh and uh and uh an unwillingness for leaders to call to call out poor behavior to correct it. Yeah, and I I couldn't understand how uh how any organization could function like that if you haven't got a high level of accountability, integrity, and and um oh accountability and integrity, yeah, all levels. Yeah, and when you come from an environmental different people are different, you know, people are different, and uh we're very lucky to come from a background where that is absolutely critical. Absolutely critical, you know. Uh very lucky, you know, very beneficial. Anyway, okay, so last question, which is from David. Um so You're in the corporate you're in the corporate tech world now. Yeah. Uh uh You are in the military, you're part of the veteran community still. How does how do the two worlds military the military world and the tech world or the corporate world approach leadership and responsibility differently?

SPEAKER_01 1:39:40

Oh man. That's a lot to unpack. Um so there is, I mean, you you experience it in the military micromanagement. Um I would say there's a lot of that in the corporate world, um, in the sense that people are not trusted to go out and do something and deliver upon it, you know, like what you're doing, how you're doing that, oh I'll do it this way. And it's just constant. And some of it there's not there's no clear delegation, like this is what I need you to do, and this is when I need it by type scenario. Some of it's a bit ambiguous, right? Um whereas in the military, you're like, hey, go do this. This is how it needs to be uh this is how I need it, go do it. Get it to me by this date or time or whatever. Um, and then you just let them go off and do it. I'm not saying everybody does that, but for me, and there's a lot of meetings, unnecessary meetings. It's like let's let's talk about this. Why? Just send me an email. It's like meetings for meetings for meetings for meetings. Some of it just is an email. There's a lot, there's a lot more talking and a lot less doing, I find in the sort of like the corporate world. People talk about stuff all the time, and yeah, let's have another meeting about this. It's like, well, you're stealing the time away from me to actually do the thing that you want done. Just park it, let me go away, do it, come back and get it done. So I would say that's the difference. I mean, fortunately for me, my organization is very veteran-friendly, and pretty much everybody in my chain is all ex-milate. Well, they're really yeah. Uh my or my so we when I joined, um, I was the second X-Mill guy in my team on this side of the fence. Now, when you look at the sort of like you're you know, my team and the sales team and all that, all veterans from different parts of the world. Um, and you know, we the companies got the gold award for the armed forces covenant. Obviously, I convinced them and they were like, yeah, okay. But when you look at they were doing it anyway without realizing it. Like when you look at their um um employment policy around uh uh reservist, you can get a year out. Oh, yeah, a whole year, uh and you still have your job. So what does that say?

SPEAKER_05 1:42:43

You can name the organization if you want. Data miner. Data miner, there you go.

SPEAKER_01 1:42:46

Yeah, data miner. Yeah. Um, great company to work for. They um good people.

SPEAKER_05 1:42:54

Are they a UK company?

SPEAKER_01 1:42:55

No, it's a US company, US US company. Um, all right, they took a punt on me. Uh, I was like a stakeholder for the for the products in my last org. Um, and I I basically pitched them at an event. Uh because uh I was coming to the end of my time, and they're like, What are you gonna do with yourself? And I'm like, I got an extension, but I don't know if I want to take it. Uh my ideal, and this is exactly what I said, my ideal will be to get out and come work for you. And the guy who was at the time was like, Really? And I was like, Yeah, have you got a CV? Yeah, sent it. A few interviews later, I was getting a job offer. And then I went from taking an extension to finishing the military, but I pretty much handed it all my last stuff on the Friday, messed to on the Saturday, drove down to London on the Sunday, started work on the Monday. So there was like no gap between that, and I'm glad to be fair, because I think if I'd had like a break, I might have like fell into a hole or something like that, but I didn't have the because I wasn't even staying at my house, it felt like I was on another posting for that first part of my career. It's like a posting, and you just get in there and useful transit for your transition. Yeah, I just felt like I was in a posting, learning a new job. So for the first, I would say six to eight months of my career, I I still felt like I was in the military. Um, but I was a civy. Uh hence why luckily for me, I had the I was paired with the right person. It just helped me to transition and communicate less military, if you know what I mean. Um, which was which was good and it's been beneficial for me.

SPEAKER_05 1:44:47

Yeah, that's really good. That's really good. Um it's been a pleasure, mate. Uh, I got a question before we finish off. R2 Bean2. Why is it called R why did you call your coffee company R2 Bean2? Are you a tech? Are you a Star Wars geek?

SPEAKER_01 1:45:00

I'm a Star Wars geek, but it's more than uh part of it is the implied Star Warsness, but I'm staying away from Disney because I don't want them coming and dropping the hammer on me or for anything. So what I I did it we because it has a double meaning. People people think instantly think Disney and Star Wars and go, but the R is for Rowan.

SPEAKER_04 1:45:23

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:45:24

The two is for phase two, yeah. Right? The bean is like uh a coffee, yeah, you know, and the two is collaboration between you and me, and whoever buys it, you buy two. Phase two is like my life, the uh second part of my life, the transition in from R1, which is the reg, and then that, and R2 rowing phase two, in being a Mr In a Civistry career trying to build this. The bean is then the collaboration of you know, people buying coffee, supporting, indirectly supporting. So instead of just donating, you're getting something from it. You buy coffee, you know that money's gonna go somewhere else. So you're getting good quality specialty grey coffee, um, and it's gonna support something else, whether that be the block or it's gonna sponsor uh a veteran going on a sporting thing, which I'm actually looking at doing at the moment for somebody who's reached out to me. I get these random emails, and I'm like, let me let me QC who you are first. And I don't think they realize that the the network is quite big. So you're like, is this bloke Jen? Are they serving? You know, are they uh and yeah, this bloke is Jen for some hockey with the signals, yeah. So I'm gonna do some stuff. It's funny, he AI'd me. So I'd sent him an it I he sent this like cover note and it had Royals signal, so it had some typo and an extra K and the end of his name. And so I sent him a load of questions, and he clearly dropped it in chat GTP or whatever, or Gemini or whatever, and then he and then he pasted it back into the hell man and it goes hi name.

SPEAKER_04 1:47:24

No, no, right.

SPEAKER_01 1:47:25

So he didn't even put my name in, yeah. And then you went through and it all it had all the M dashes from the from where it doesn't use properly.

SPEAKER_05 1:47:35

It's the funniest thing. I've been talking to someone recently about this, right? Honestly, AI, and it's been said AI is gonna make us dumber. Uh it's not gonna make me dumber, it's not gonna make you dumber. At any time make dumber people who are outsourcing everything in never in to thinking to chat to chat GPT or whatever, pick an AI tool like that. Why can't he write it? Like people are literally using it to write emails, to write notes, to whatever, and go when they could do it themselves, right? And I get that it's quicker.

SPEAKER_01 1:48:10

I get it's quicker. I get it to QC meet stuff I write. So I'll write it in my language, right? And then I'll go, hey, how does this sound? And it but like, who are you sending it to? I'm like, oh, I need it to be this, and it just changes a few words for me.

SPEAKER_05 1:48:24

If you were if you were if you were I need to give people a word of advice, I gotta do it. If you are someone who who regularly needs to communicate in the written word with other people regularly by emails, which most people do in in their jobs these days, by emails or whatever, you know, whatever medium you're using, if you are using an AI tool to create all those emails and and and then you maybe you maybe then you change them slightly, but you get the thing to write the email, and you change it a little bit and send it, you're making a mistake because you are losing the ability to form words and a plan in your head and and put that onto paper and basically communicate them with a word. And that sounds drastic, but it's absolutely true because you it's use AI like a crutch, and all of a sudden your brain does not need to think about there's a lot of so, even just an email, right? A lot there is a lot of effort, brain power that goes into even writing the simplest of emails to someone, a lot of effort goes into it. If it's got any content in it whatsoever, it's not just a yes email or a no email, there's content to it. There's a lot of brain power that goes into having to form that power that email. Before you even open the email app, your brain is already working out what it needs to say. Yeah, and you're putting it together in your head, and then you all you all your fingers then do is write the words down your brain's saying. If you're using an AI tool to do that for you, you are very quickly losing the ability to put words together or form uh communication content in your head, which is the most critical tool we have at uh to us in our brains, the ability to communicate. You don't want to be watering it down. If you're gonna use it, what you should well, you just said there, Rod. If you're gonna use it, you write the thing you need to write. You write the thing you need to write, then you you don't then you put it into AI and go, does this is this saying what I think it needs to say?

SPEAKER_01 1:50:19

Yeah, is that does this sound right?

SPEAKER_05 1:50:21

And you only need to do that if it's the critical communications where if you get the slightest thing wrong, something's gonna go pear-shipped. Yeah, that doesn't happen in emails, it's not a contract, you know. It's like honestly, I've had this conversation recently, it's it's fucking medical. I don't know.

SPEAKER_01 1:50:37

Exactly.

SPEAKER_05 1:50:38

But that scenario where doing all your writing for you is not to your advantage to your detriment. To your detriment.

SPEAKER_01 1:50:45

But the thing is, if they're I get it, if they you're getting it to do your writing. But if you're not reading it properly and QTing it, right, then what's the point of you know, yes.

SPEAKER_05 1:50:56

But that's the worst example you just gave up.

SPEAKER_01 1:50:58

Yeah. Yeah, but that's what I mean. It I found it funny because I responded to him.

SPEAKER_05 1:51:01

I'm not even checking it.

SPEAKER_01 1:51:03

I co-responded to him and I went, um, uh, and I went, PS, make sure you get rid of the AI stuff before you send it next time.

SPEAKER_05 1:51:14

Honestly, it's so obvious as well when anybody who's used that.

SPEAKER_01 1:51:17

I always like, mate, come on, stop being stop being idle. All right. Yes, you you might have been busy, but think about what you're doing before you do it. Yeah. You know.

SPEAKER_05 1:51:30

I haven't had it yet, or I've been sent an email which is blatantly, which is blatantly AI. I know people who use it regularly to send emails and it's just AI generated. They change it with some details, but it's AI generated. If I ever got one of those emails, I would be pretty unhappy. I'd be pretty unhappy because go, you can't even take me time. You can't even give me the effort to write an email yourself, the AI in it, especially if it was someone I was paying a service for, yeah, or they were providing uh or they were paying me for a service, for example. But either way, you know, write your fucking self, the lack of personalization there, the lack of care, oh god, I'd be picking up the phone and going, I won't do that.

SPEAKER_01 1:52:15

It's obvious. It's mad. It is, it is mad, mate. I see I I was flabbergasted when he when I got because he responded quite quickly. So oh god.

SPEAKER_05 1:52:25

So he's pitching, he was basically pitching for his support.

SPEAKER_01 1:52:27

He's pitching for support. Yeah, and I so before before I did it, before I did it, I I went and checked the network.

SPEAKER_05 1:52:35

I don't think I would have given him my money.

SPEAKER_01 1:52:39

I'm gonna do it because I said I would. You know, you know, you know, I've I've already said I would. Uh uh on the uh on the um the message. Um so I said I was willing to do it, so I now can't back up because he's monged it and not done not done a good job of QCing his AI message back to me, which is it I did ask him a lot of questions, yeah, because I wanted to make sure that what he was offering fulfilled the need. So I was like, you know, what about this? What what what social platforms do you have? Uh what's the what's the following rate like? You know, what are you gonna do? Yeah, what what how's the logo gonna be presented? All these different things, because hey, you made an offer, I'm gonna QC the offer before I go, yep, I I will fully commit to that. Yeah, so he came back and it I mean you could tell he he he put some stuff in and then just didn't personalize it, just copied and pasted it in. Oh mate, I I'll show you after this, mate. It's hilarious. It is make it. I mean, it does. I mean, I I can't slag it off because I work for an AI company and it does great stuff, but it is QC'd, it is managed.

SPEAKER_05 1:54:02

Yeah, it's got you've gotta have you've gotta have self-control, kids. You've gotta have self-control. Yeah, you know, you've gotta retain the ability to actually use your own brain to do things and read, read it, exactly, and it's bonkers. And and it's hard to retain that control. You know, I uh it is a conscious decision I've made over the last few months to go, there's certain things I'm just not gonna use AI for. I did a I did a course a while back and uh it was a long, it was a lot long old course. And I started using so the AI bubble the AI bubble was growing rapidly, yeah about so like chat GPT basically became you know free, available to use immediately as I was half-reaching this course, and I started leaning on it heavily to do my work, as in you know, my assignments and stuff. And the thing is at the end of that, at the end of that course, there was an endpoint assessment, there was a couple of interviews, uh, knowledge tests, you know, and where I would be on a call for two hours with people assessing my knowledge. And I realized in the lead up to that that because I'd been outsourcing all my thinking, you know, um, to AI to do this work for me, and I would read all the content, I would do all the lessons, but now I would just get uh generate the answers for me for assignment questions because I couldn't be bothered, basically. And I wouldn't realize when I got to that MY assessment, I didn't really understand the knowledge, I didn't understand what I was being assessed for at that point. I'd basically forgotten a lot of what I learned early on in the course because I hadn't had to revisit it and recall it into my brain. AI was doing it for me, yeah, and I had to go, that's it, stop, literally get all my notes back over. I had to go back over all the work, read it all again to be ready for the endpoint assessment. It was like a real uh early warning to me to myself to go, don't do that again, because you're not absorbing the information at all when you don't have to recall it again to form an answer to understand what you read, put that into the context of the no and then explain your observations, for example, you know.

SPEAKER_01 1:55:57

So exactly you I use it like I said to tidy stuff up, yeah. Right, make it because I sometimes I still communicate reg. All right, not ver not verbally, but you know, I'm like I can be quite blunt, right? So I will write it down and I'm like, and then I read it and then I'll change it, then I read it and then I change it, but then I'll be like, ah, this is taking too long, right? Hey, this is this is what I've written, this is what I'm trying to say without saying it, right? Just make that make it say that, but don't change my language too much, right? And then it will just like move a couple of words and replace it with another word, and I'm like, actually, that's a good word. I would have I'd I would have never thought of that word had you not done it. So then it becomes part of my vocab. So then I then use that as part of my vocab for future.

SPEAKER_05 1:56:59

Yeah. Anyway, anyway, been a pleasure, mate. These so r2bean2.com are so Romeo2 Romeo. R2bean B E A N 2.com. R2bean2.com for the coffees. Yeah. Make sure folks you get on there and buy a bag of coffee. I've got a bag of coffee for me. Yeah, mate. Get yourself a bag of coffee. It's still early enough in the day, I can have a coffee.

SPEAKER_01 1:57:23

Oh, mate, you you you can drink coffee right up until eight o'clock, mate.

SPEAKER_05 1:57:27

No, no, no. Do you not go out to a restaurant and have like an especial shot? Past two o'clock, like negative goes for him having it.

SPEAKER_01 1:57:33

Do you not have a special martinis or anything like that? No, mate. What's wrong with you? It's like the elixir of life.

SPEAKER_05 1:57:43

Um, make sure you get on and buy some coffee and uh know that it's supporting good causes. And uh, Ron, it's been absolutely a pleasure, mate.

SPEAKER_01 1:57:49

Mate, thank you for thank you for having me. I appreciate it.

SPEAKER_05 1:57:51

No, yeah, thanks for giving me your time this morning. I know you've got a busy couple of days, so it's good to get you in and uh and uh good luck with everything in the future.

SPEAKER_01 1:57:59

Yeah, well, no doubt. I'll see you up the up the road at HR4K Beast in Ben. We will get up Ben Beast Ben. He deserves a beast in Ben. Yeah, he does need a beast in Ben. Stand by, mate. I'm coming up. Right, been a pleasure. Pleasure, thank you, mate.

SPEAKER_05 1:58:13

That's it. If you enjoy this episode, why not become a Hey Chour patron? Patrons will get access to all of the episodes before anyone else, they get advanced viewing of the episodes, and you also get other perks and bonuses. All of the information is on charliecharlie1.com. Just hit the menu item, become a patron. It'll show you everything there, including access to the Heych Hour Discord community and private patron only channels on there. So go to charliecharlie1.com and hit the menu item, become a patron. Easy peasy. Thank you for being a supporter. Subscribe to the channel, and I will catch you on the next episode. Thank you.