UKSF Pasha Munro's H-Hour Icebreaker

Join the H-Hour community at https://patreon.com/hkpodcasts/ ***** For this Icebreaker with ex Royal Marine and Special Forces operator Pasha Munro, answering patron-submitted questions he tackles UK special forces whistleblowers — arguing operators should be left to do their job within ROE and law, but wrongdoing must be called out — and defends UKSF as a moral organization where "bad apples" should be reprimanded. He contrasts Marines with Paras as more mature, less extrovert, citing his 2000 mortar course at Warminster, and reflects on Ukraine's staggering draft-dodging stats (up to 6 million avoiding registration) while admitting he wouldn't want his son to join the Marines but won't stop him if he chooses. Pasha shares his most difficult combat moment — a chemical reaction burning his dry suit latex underwater, forcing him to stay calm at depth — and his most rewarding: neutralizing a wanted enemy who'd harmed UK forces, before rolling into the full episode.  https://champions-speakers.co.uk/speaker-agent/pasha-munro  https://www.instagram.com/munro6141/

Transcript

SPEAKER_02 0:00

Hello, welcome back to Hey Chower. Uh, if you if you're new to Hey Chower, if you are here because uh basically you've you follow P or you listen to P or you want to listen to what Posh has got to say and listen to more and hear more what he's doing and what he's done, uh then be aware that this is an icebreaker episode of Hey Chour. It's gonna last about 20 minutes, and then there'll be a follow-up episode, which will be immediately next in your uh in your a podcast player, whatever you're watching or listening to this on. Well I do the a full podcast with with Pash. For this icebreaker episode, you're about to listen to. I'm gonna be asking Ponsons, which was submitted by Hey Chour patrons ahead of this podcast. HR patrons get access to the guest list, they get access to live stream of this podcast. They are listening, uh they're watching this right now, um, or some of them are watching this right now, and they get opportunity to submit guests uh questions for the guests. Like I said, they also get the opportunity to jump onto a Zoom call with guests a few weeks after the podcast has happened and personally uh QA the guests, speak to them, meet to them, uh listen to them on a on a private Zoom call. So please, if you want to support what I do, and if you want to actually have the opportunity to jump on a zoom call with Pash, then become a patron of Hey Chower. It costs about a five a month, not a lot at all. Depressingly, that is less than the price of a cup of coffee these days in Costa or Starbucks or wherever you get it. It's very depressing. Coffee's expensive. Heychower patronage is not. Anyway, on to the icebreaker, Punroe. Welcome to the studio, mate. Um, very happy to be here. Thank you. I'm happy. I'm happy you've the labour of driving or however you got all the way down from all the way up there to the big city. Uh, you can't do this very often, do you?

SPEAKER_00 1:41

I I don't come in. Uh I'm an orphaner. It costs me money to come down here. I get claustrophobic with people all over me and people want to mug me and all this kind of stuff. Um, yeah, I don't come down. Previous guest, Joe Brooks, who you saw on the way out downstairs, he's from South London, from Coin area, and he's been having to go up north recently, and he's like, I think I'd let him get I'd let him give me a bit of banter, mate, because obviously who he is, and I wouldn't like to flip in, give him any back.

SPEAKER_01 2:08

Yeah, he can say who he likes. He can say who he likes, don't hit me. Yeah, 100%.

SPEAKER_02 2:12

Right, we've got a bunch of questions here from the patrons um on a on a range of different topics, all military-oriented, no, no surprises there. So, in no particular order, let's get into them. And I've not vetted these per se before we go. If there's anything you I ask you, and you cannot answer fully, answer whatever you can. I understand that with your background, there may be details and stuff you can't you can't go into. Totally normal. And most of the listeners and viewers are do the same. So, anyway, question number one from a patron called Coke. Do you view UK special forces whistleblowers as doing wrong? Or do you respect the moral courage? That is totally straight in deep.

SPEAKER_00 2:57

That is what um I do I do believe that they shouldn't be doing what they're doing because they shouldn't. They shouldn't. Yeah. And the reason is that when when the guys go out and do their job, they're getting told to do that. And however they accomplish that within the law, that's the big obviously that's the and the rules of engagement, then they should be left to to do it. Yeah. Um and kept in-house, I think, unless unless an outside agency, unless they do something wrong.

SPEAKER_02 3:35

Yeah, I think we're coke, you're sort of whistleblowers. In fact, there's more to it. So but so he says, so he says you're Ben Griffin. You may have heard of Ben Griffin, ex uh Hereford whistleblower. Right. Uh Ben Griffin said his SAS unit knowingly delivered civilians for torture, including teenage kids, and he gave many talks on this. Many anonymous ex-UKSF alleged the BBC that their their unit murdered civilians, killed prisoners, and senior officers were aware. I think what Koch is referring to here is whistleblowers of illegal activities.

SPEAKER_00 4:08

Right.

SPEAKER_02 4:09

That's what he's referring to.

SPEAKER_00 4:10

Well, my time within the military, I didn't do anything illegal. So I've I'm happy with that. Um and the people who I was with didn't. So I've never thought of it like that. That if I was in a situation that someone did something wrong, what would what I would do. Um I believe with the military part aside, I think you know, we know what's right and wrong. And if it is wrong, then you know, you put your hand up and say or you know, you go through the consequences. I mean, there is there there is the the thought that you know if you're going in a room and you pull the trigger and you find out that it was a wrong thing to do, but then you've got a question. Whoever's questioning you, it's a split second. So he ha that person has to make that choice, you know. And if it is quote, murder, then it's not his fault. But that's my opinion. Um yeah, that's that's just my sense.

SPEAKER_02 5:24

Okay, question two. Uh uh is UK Special Forces as a let's consider it all one organization, uh, which is not, but this is how he's referring to it. UK Special Forces as an entity. Yeah. Uh is it a a moral organization? It is. Okay, so if so, there's a follow-up. So if you think it is, so how would you explain the claims that so Ben Griffin referred to and there's the other, yeah, these these murder allegations and stuff. If it's a if it's a moral organization, uh and there's uh Mark Urban apparently has done books on on uh on wrongdoing. How do you explain that?

SPEAKER_00 6:08

Well, if they have done wrongdoing, I you know they they potentially well they should be reprimanded because we don't get taught, we don't we don't get told to do that. That's up to that person at that time. So they are doing right, you know.

SPEAKER_02 6:24

Yeah, I suppose it's the bad apple on a tree, right? You get bad apples everywhere, you get things that go you let's let's say in in examples here, if the wrongdoing is because of literally like individuals making immoral decisions where their trigger figures concerned, for example, or where torture's concerned, that doesn't make the whole tree rotten.

SPEAKER_00 6:46

No, the apples run. But it also on on that aspect, that person, there must be per people above him or around him who knew that, who knows that's happening to stop it as well.

SPEAKER_03 6:59

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 6:59

So if that person keeps on doing it, then that's the problem, isn't it? That person is allowed to do it.

SPEAKER_02 7:07

Yeah, yeah. Okay, next question, a little bit, a little bit lighter. Uh ex-parra, sas Robin Horsefall. Oh, yeah, said about the Marines that he met when he went to Limpson after the Falklands. Uh okay, in quotes, the men were very much like paras, but with a less extrovert and more mature attitude towards one another. Whether that was because they had all just returned from a war, I couldn't say. That was in his book, uh Fighting Scared. The question is: was that your experience of Marines culture marine culture? Uh, and if so, why do you think Marines have a more mature culture than Paris?

SPEAKER_00 7:53

I've only had a uh a short period working with the Paris. So the only time I did work with the Paris was doing my mortar fire control course in Warminster. Of all the experiences.

SPEAKER_02 8:09

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 8:11

Okay. So that's you know, that says who the kind of people I was rubbing shoulders with, shall we say? Um, and what year was that? That was 2000. 2000. Okay, right. 2000.

SPEAKER_02 8:24

Yeah, I joined in May 2000.

SPEAKER_00 8:26

Wow. So yeah, I was at Warminster. So the them guys, and I have still got a very good friend who was on that course. It is right, and we we do seem to be more grown up rather than Roy. Well, we usually call it Royally Royally, but I mean going downtown, smashing the place up, blah blah blah. But we the Marines do do that, but not I think the paras do it a lot more. You think how often do you think the paras do it? I don't know. That's just my that that's just my my interpretation. Maybe I don't know. I couldn't I guess it didn't happen like that now, but in the 90s, well, it was chaos, wasn't it? Because there's no the there was no there was no wars. There was I island, there was island, but it was just policing.

SPEAKER_02 9:11

You had the Gulf in 1990, didn't you? Or 91, was it?

SPEAKER_00 9:15

But after that, the it was because I joined just after that, and once I'm in the unit, I'd be half past ten, I'd want I would I'd be in my room watching Trisha. There wasn't much happening, you know, and the odd exercise here and there, but it was boring, you know, but it we it gets you fit, so you do your it does, but not much else. Yes, and then but then you get really fit, and then you go downtown and and flipping spunk all your money and then getting a scrap because you're really fit.

SPEAKER_03 9:47

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 9:48

But I think them days are gone now.

SPEAKER_02 9:50

Oh, I think they might come back. Do you reckon? Because we're in a dip now.

SPEAKER_00 9:54

Well, yeah, yeah, but I think look looking at what's happening now, I think there's possibly a retention problem or people joining up now because it's a different it's a different military, isn't it? It's completely different. Whereas we wanted to get in there, digging, get in the fight, hand-to-hand kind of face, you know, the old school reckies, the flipping, bouncing, all that kind of stuff. It's all done on it's all done in the air now. Everything's given to you. I mean, how many, how long is it going to be that boots, we're not gonna be on boots, boots on the ground anymore?

SPEAKER_02 10:28

Uh, no, I don't think I'll ever go away. It's just gonna be less or less. You'll still, you know, the the there's still a requirement to learn the tools of the trade, your feel, your your trade craft, your field craft, your your your like you're saying, recce, your your your your basic uh i star stuff in additional in addition to your soldier and stuff. Um uh but less important, like you said, because of technology. This is where you can't get rid of it altogether.

SPEAKER_00 10:56

Um and I think in Limston now, when they when the tra you go through the training, you get taught the drones now, it's part of your syllabus, and you know it's it's completely different. I mean I was when I joined, I wasn't academic because I didn't get anything, all I just wanted to do in the Marines, but I only got through the Marines because of my physicality and and it in that in my mind that I wasn't I wanted to I needed to pass because I had nothing to go back to. So the the way people are joining up now has I've got a different reasoning to join, I guess. Which is what technology, and it's more technology. If you can get some if you can if you can join the military now and get them qualifications like the AI kind of stuff, um drones, all that kind of stuff, and then you come outside, you're gonna get a better job. Maybe look, you know, from our careers, when we came outside, we the I didn't have anything to offer really. So it was more of a struggle because I did my mass and maps in English GCSEs when I was 40 because I had to do it to be a sergeant. So I've I left I've had nothing apart from military courses.

SPEAKER_02 12:15

Yeah, yeah. Okay, right, we might come back onto that in the podcast. Uh okay, next question from from Coke. Uh, do you disagree with Ukrainian men potentially millions avoiding their country's draft? As in avoiding enlistment.

SPEAKER_00 12:34

I don't I didn't think there was much of that because I've been out Yeah, millions surprises me there. I've been into the Ukraine quite a lot with looking after Oh really? Yeah, looking after the media, and them people are so passionate and proud that however long this war goes on, they'll be there. So I I've I've I never saw people or heard people out there that wouldn't go on and do their duty.

SPEAKER_02 13:01

Oh, I'm let's looking online. All right, so says you as of early 2026, official Ukrainian reports and independent investigations indicate that millions of citizens are avoiding the military draft through various means, including evading registration, fleeing the country, or going absent without leave. Approximately two million Ukrainian approximately two million Ukrainians are wanted by authorities by for avoiding military service or violating registration rules. That's from the UK, that's from the Ukrainian Defence Minister in January. Uh broader estimates suggest that up to six million men of conscription age have failed to undergo mandatory military registration as required by updated mobilization laws. AWOL and desertion, roughly 200,000 to 311,000 soldiers have been reported as absent without leave or have deserted their positions since the start of the full-scale invasion. And an estimated 650,000 men of conscription age have left Ukraine for Europe since February 2022 to avoid the draft. A June 2024 opinion poll found that 46% of Ukrainians believe there is no shame in being a draft dodger. How many did nah? How many did they survey though? No, surely not. Yeah, I'm a bit skeptical on that. Like, how many people do they survey? I mean, the numbers suck it though, but to be honest, I was that's but them statistics are huge. Yeah, but this is uh I'm also kind of not surprised because of this, it's a new type of warfare, and you think that the horror stories that come back from the front lines about people you can see it online. Yeah, yeah. This new day and age where you can just watch people get phones up and ripped all day long by drones, it honestly it's frightening me. It is frightening.

SPEAKER_00 15:06

It's also on the other side though, isn't it? The Russians are doing exactly the same, legging it.

SPEAKER_02 15:10

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 15:10

So that they don't a lot of them don't want to be part of it, but if if they don't, they'll probably get flipping taken out.

SPEAKER_03 15:17

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 15:19

So what do you think about the men avoiding it?

SPEAKER_00 15:23

If it was here, I I wouldn't like it.

SPEAKER_02 15:26

No, yeah, true.

SPEAKER_00 15:27

Especially a person who's from a military background, you know, you it's it's not right. But having said that, I'm not gonna go back to World War One and shoot him in the back.

SPEAKER_01 15:37

Yeah, yeah, yeah. I know what you mean.

SPEAKER_02 15:40

All right, so there's a part B to this question from Coke, and it says he said he says, he asks, uh, the chief of defence staff, Richard Knighton, said the UK's sons and daughters will have a part to play in the UK's defence, including war, well, including war fighting if needed. Would you be okay with your kids being drafted or volunteering for the UK if we went to war with Russia?

SPEAKER_00 16:10

So uh my son is just turned 15 and he wants to join.

SPEAKER_02 16:15

He's a fighting age male.

SPEAKER_00 16:17

He wants he wants to join the Marines. Yeah. Now I've never laid that on him, and I don't try and talk to him about what I got up to, but he's he obviously sees that and he sees my man cave, etc. etc. Um but I wouldn't like I wouldn't like him to do it, but I'm not gonna stop him because it it's his if he wants to do it, then I'll support him. It doesn't mean I'm I like it, but I will support him.

SPEAKER_02 16:47

Yeah, yeah, I know what you mean. I'm kind of in a similar mindset. Yeah. Um I think the only the only check and balance that I've done on it, on the aspiration of one of my kids who wants to join up, is I I I've tried to make sure they aren't joining up because they feel a pressure to because I was in, you know, and what they think of me. Uh yeah. I got laughed at when I asked that question. Um maybe that's more about me trying to be happy that I haven't like unknowingly forced a career path here. Yeah, yeah. You know, but ultimately you can't get away from the fact that you know, as as as parents, we're role models whether we like it or not.

SPEAKER_00 17:36

Yeah. Whether we like it or not. And you know from from from from where I am with my family, I'm a school governor. So all the kids are flipping. I'm always on the flipping socials putting stuff on. I'm on um TikTok, etc. My my sons, kids follow me, so it's it's hard to not sell myself to them of my military background and and where I went after that. So yeah, it's it's it's it's difficult, but like I said, I wouldn't stop him. But it's not something I'd want to go to the careers office and say you need to join up. It's your turn, kind of thing.

SPEAKER_02 18:17

Uh all right, two questions here to finish off the icebreaker. Uh well, the two questions rolled into one. What's your most what's your most enjoyable moment in combat? And what's your most and your most difficult moment in combat? If you can pick either of those.

SPEAKER_00 18:35

My most enjoyable Justin's interesting. I don't know how you phrase that question, isn't it? I suppose the most enjoyable is taking someone neutralizing somebody who's a very, very wanted man who's done a lot of nastiness to our military um that haven't come home, and you've stopped that. That's that's uh it's kind of a proud moment. You know, you obviously I don't run around and shout about it, but you've stopped that badness, um, even though you don't get a pat on the back, it doesn't matter, it's just move on. Um so yeah, taking stopping someone from doing bad things to us and you know, potentially the UK and uh and her assets. I've just forgot the other one. Difficult, much difficult, difficult most difficult. There's a few times when I've um been underwater and things have gone wrong.

SPEAKER_02 19:40

Oh god, so that's the thought of being in that situation is difficult.

SPEAKER_00 19:45

I mean, one of the times I can't go into specifics, but I've I I I have stubble and the one of the reasons I have stubble because I was underwater and I had my dry suit on and I had a chemical reaction to a piece of kit and the latex burnt, it was on fire underwater. Oh my god. So that was difficult.

SPEAKER_01 20:07

What depth were you at?

SPEAKER_00 20:08

I wasn't I wasn't very deep, but I was underwater, and obviously the physics of being underwater, I can't just shoot up. Yeah, I've got to take my time.

SPEAKER_02 20:20

You were at a depth that you needed a controller setting up.

SPEAKER_00 20:23

You need a proper control and I wasn't on my own, so I couldn't flap, I had to man up and get on with it. Oh my god. So yeah, it's you're on your own.

SPEAKER_02 20:41

No, thank you.

SPEAKER_00 20:42

And them kind of them kind of things, they are very individual, and there's not many people who've been in them situations. So that's compl you know, it's doesn't happen often, thankfully.

SPEAKER_01 20:54

Yeah, yeah, goodness me.

SPEAKER_02 20:56

Okay, um, ice break it down. Uh if you were listening to this for the first time, reminder this is gonna roll the next episode in your in your uh in this playlist, HR playlist, is a full podcast with Pash. So um keep listening, roll into that one, and enjoy the upcoming conversation. Thank you very much.