Ex-SBS Operator: "I've just been PNG'd. I don't even know why." H-Hour #289 Dean Stott MBE

Dean Stott MBE returns to H‑Hour for a long‑form sit‑rep on life after the Special Boat Service. We dig into evacuations in Israel and beyond, the “ground truth” versus the media monster, the reality of being PNG’d by MOD, and why outdated secrecy policies are still shaping the lives of ex‑SF operators. Dean talks surfing and fighting at 49, cycling 14,000 miles, celebrity routes for ex-SF, and how he thinks about risk, family and doing things “the European way” in an American healthcare system. If you haven’t heard the icebreaker, start there for the backstory – then come here for what happened next.

Instagram: instagram.com/deanstott

X: x.com/DeanStottSBS

LinkedIn: linkedin.com/in/dean-stott-mbe-24725880

Website: deanstott.com

If you want more conversations like this, where we dig into evacuations, PNG decisions and the reality of life after Tier 1 service, get behind H‑Hour on Patreon at patreon.com/hkpodcasts. Patrons see the guest list early, shape the icebreaker episodes with their own questions, and get access to private Q&A calls – including the one we’re lining up with Dean Stott MBE.

This episode is sponsored by Sin Eaters Guild - sineatersguild.co.uk

Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:07

Welcome back to Hey Hour. If you are new to Hey Chour and you are here because you're here for Dean. You're not here for you, you have the Dean, then that is good. Welcome to Hey Chower. Be aware that there is a previous episode to this with Dean, which is uh Hey Chour Icebreaker, about 20 minutes long, a Q ⁇ A Dean uh questions which were submitted by patrons of the podcast in advance of it because they get they get access to the guest list. They're like, ah, Dean's not coming on. Let's hit him with these difficult questions. And there were some difficult questions. I highly recommend you listen to that icebreaker either before this one, you can pause this and go back, or after this one. But do not either way, do not miss out on it. And if you want to um see act get access to the future guest list, get access to a private Q ⁇ A zoom record with Dean in a few weeks' time. Uh and uh and submit questions for future guests, then become a patron of the podcast. The link is in the blurb of this. Dean has appeared, we were just discussing it off air. Dean has appeared uh once before on the podcast, it was during COVID. Weird times. I was doing uh I was doing uh it was via Zoom or whatever I was using at the time. That episode was 96. Also, go back and listen to that episode if you have not heard it. That was a a very, very good chat. But a number of years ago, it's a great insight into everything Dean had done up to that point, which is a huge amount, and we are now six years, five or six years later, and it is, I think, is even more that's being undertaken now. But yeah, it's like a we've done like a what do you call it? A compendium of Dean's life up to this point, number 96, and now this episode. So Dean's Dean's dot MBE. You were not at Dean's.mbe last time. Welcome back to uh Hey Charlie.

SPEAKER_02 1:44

Thanks for having me, appreciate it.

SPEAKER_00 1:45

Yeah, I'm fucking really happy to have you, dude. So thanks for letting me know you're over. And uh I'm glad we can get it in the bag even at 06:30 in the morning. Are you an early riser?

SPEAKER_02 1:56

I am I am an early riser. I'm up at six uh back it back in the US, but my I should be in bed now. It's 10 o'clock it's 10 30 at night back home. But uh yeah, normally early rising. Are you still adjusting? No, I wasn't too bad. I flew over on Saturday. Sorry, left, left LA um LAX three o'clock Saturday, landed 10am on the Sunday, and so and literally had my first meeting at one o'clock on Sunday, and just just just regged it out until the evening and then just slept once and asked me back on track. So going back might be slightly different. Yeah, I think you get it, I think you may struggle there, mate.

SPEAKER_00 2:32

But uh yeah, you know, um I wanted to say we were talking the iceberg, we're talking on our fair as well. You were referencing the age. I want to say, yeah, you're looking fucking ripped, mate. You're looking you're looking great in great shape. And and depressingly, because you mentioned your age, I think either on the iceberg or not, you're older than me. And I'm thinking, son of a bitch looks younger than me.

SPEAKER_02 2:51

Oh yeah. Well, I I think there's an element of that as uh living in California that does help. Oh, that's good. Yeah, I think I think there's an element of that. I mean, I was staying in shape, and I always think, yeah, like it is said, I'm 49, just turned 49.

SPEAKER_00 3:03

But um Are you feeling it though? Mentally, are you feeling it?

SPEAKER_02 3:06

I'm not, and I don't know. Physically now and then, you know, sometimes I'll I'll I'll I'll I'll I'll I'll uh I'll take a little my body will just kick in. I'll be like, yeah, you can't you can't do that anymore. But actually, I started this year and I was like, I want to do sports that I've enjoyed. You know, I've surfed all my life and I live 15 minutes from the best surfing beaches in the world. You got Huntington Beach, which is known as Surf City in California. Trestles Beach is 15 minutes from my house, which is where the Olympics will be and where the World Surf League final is. And I wasn't doing any justice to my kids because I hadn't even had them in the water. And so I was like, right, so I bought a board, bought a wetsuit. But I always remember I enjoyed boxing when I was in 5'9 Commando and always remembered the discipline. I loved that. And I said, Oh, I might do a bit of boxing. So literally, this is beginning of January. I'm like, online.

SPEAKER_00 3:56

January this year.

SPEAKER_02 3:57

January this year. Oh, right. So I was like, I I um I went online, I just typed in special forces, boxing, see what came up. And there was a non-profit up in Montana called Big Sky Bravery, and they have a uh an annual boxing event. It was actually, having now spoken to them and done the event, it was they took the concept from UK. They came over and to Hereford and watched the Hereford boxing. They knew about the SPS boxing, and they said, We need this in uh in in America, so they took it to Montana, and it was on it this year was its fourth year, and so I just I just put my name down and um yeah, someone came back within 48 hours and it's like, yeah, you you you can box, and it was like 10 weeks out. So I thought, oh fuck. Oh my god, that's not a lot of time. Not long enough. Before that, when was the last time you'd boxed? It was in 1999, so it's 27 years ago. So it was it was 27 years ago.

SPEAKER_00 4:45

10 weeks.

SPEAKER_02 4:46

Oh my god, so it was 10 weeks, and I thought, perfect. Could I I like I like to have um targets? I've I've always feel that you need to be training for something, something short-term and something maybe. You have to have a target, you have to have a target. And so this was my short-term target. So I said to my wife, I said, Oh, I'm gonna go box, I'm gonna box, and she's like, Brilliant. She's good, I've never seen you box. I said, Well, you can be my cornerman and my daughter can be my cup man. And I I'm asking him, I said, What weight do you want me at? And they said, Look, people get injured and you know, weights fluctuate, so we'll we'll designate that closer to time. Well, after three weeks, I'd I started at 200 pounds. Uh after three weeks, I'd already lost seven pounds. I said, Look, you need to give me a weight. And they said, Look, we'll lock you in at 190. I was like, perfect. Ten days, um, nine and a half weeks later, we fly up to Montana and me and the family, and I still don't know who I'm fighting. And then the day before the morning of the weighing, um, I go in and there's a guy, is that just me and him? And I was like, What weight are you at? He's at 190. I said, Oh, you and I fighting each other. And, you know, we ended up on a panel that night before the night before the boxing. And he was four years old when I had my last fight. You know, he's 31. This guy's 31 years old. He's still in, he's still in this soft community, he's still serving. So I was like, okay. And so um, yeah, we ended up, we ended up fighting a unanimous decision. I ended up beating him. Um, and for me, I was like, one of the questions I wanted to ask myself going into that is you know, when you're 22 years old in the commandos in 1999, you're just full of testosterone and you know, adrenaline and aggression. And so it's just very easy to find that. Now, now I'm a bit older, you know, I've got a family of three, you know, I've done plant medicine and things like that. I'm like, well, it just gives it, give me a cuddle, you know. But actually, as soon as that first punch went in, it all just comes flooded, flooding back. Um, so yeah, and we raised $2.1 million on the night as well. Wow. So it was a huge fundraising event as well. So for me, that was my short-term goal. And so sort of uh, that's why I've managed to lose a lot of weight and stay in shape, was because of that fight a couple of months ago.

SPEAKER_00 6:48

So is that fight available online to watch?

SPEAKER_02 6:51

It will be available online. There's a couple of pictures on at the moment, and I should have it in the next week or two because he was still serving, because the the MC was still serving, they have to protect their anonymity. So they're actually having to sort of like blur out faces and things like that.

SPEAKER_00 7:05

So at the point this podcast released, that should be available and that should be available, yeah. Yeah, all right. And I go to your Instagram for that, too.

SPEAKER_02 7:11

Just go on my Instagram, yeah. If not, you'll just see some good looking stills.

SPEAKER_00 7:16

Were you were you nervous going into that, fighting a an 80, a guy 18 years younger? Because skill in it skill in it.

SPEAKER_02 7:21

Well, I didn't I didn't know he I didn't know he was 18 years younger until the day before. And so up until that point, you're like, okay, you you're in anyway, the family are up there and and ever. So so for me, I was always like because it was three two-minute rounds, is like for me was the physical, you know, like as long as I can stay the course of the free because three two-minute rounds doesn't sound that long, you know. I've cycled 14,000 miles, but actually, you know, three two-minute rounds takes it out of you, and so I was looking at how can I get any sort of gains, you know. So physical-wise, you know, I was doing that. I um I uh I got um uh hypoxico who do altitude tents because uh Bozemans at altitude, I live at sea level, and so I had to factor in that as well. And so I was sleeping in an altitude tent at night, which was helping. And actually, when I when I spoke to my opponent afterwards, he he did say he said I hadn't factored in things like altitude. He he lives in Virginia Beach as well, he's at sea level, and so all these little things, you know. So when I go into a project, I always look at right where where I need to be and how do I get there? What are the sort of what's going to help me along the way? And so, yeah, that that was good. The boxing was great, it was you know, getting back into that, you know.

SPEAKER_00 8:33

But uh well, he's learned the valuable lesson the hard way.

SPEAKER_02 8:36

He learned the valuable lesson the hard way, like bean start plans. But I I had to lose weight, I fought 187 pounds, so I lost 13 pounds. He had to put weight on, and so my sort of worry going in because I'm quite heavy.

SPEAKER_01 8:47

Well, you put weight on for it.

SPEAKER_02 8:49

He had to put weight on for it, yeah. Because what the problem they had, they normally get so many volunteers from the military serving, but because of this situation that was going on in the Middle East, no one could do it. So we were the only two military fighters on the night. The rest came from uh local boxing clubs, and so normally they have the the pick of the bunch, and so he was asked to put weight on, and I had to lose weight. And so normally when I'm fighting at two, if I was fighting at 200 pounds, you know, I'm quite heavy, so I end up fighting Mr. Tickles. You know, I found that when I was in uh N5'9 commando, at middleweight was great. As soon as I went up to light heavy, these guys are a lot taller. So that was my worry going into this. I'm gonna probably be fighting someone considerably taller than me, which is a different way of fighting. But when I saw him at the weight-in and he was my height, I was that I felt a lot more confident.

SPEAKER_00 9:39

Well, well done on that, mate. Well done on that. Yeah, it's uh it's that's the achievement at 49 years old. Fucking would you do another fight?

SPEAKER_02 9:46

Well, my daughter loved it. My daughter was like buzzing. She's like, Dad, when's the next fight? I was like, Really? I said, I only did that for a thing. So, but actually, uh, there's the uh US Masters coming up in San Diego in in July, and it sounds very like professional masters, it means old. It's like veteran rugby. If you're over 35, you're in the veterans team. It's like the US Masters. So I may enter that one. Uh the the the bonus on that is they'll they'll at least put you within someone 10 years of your age, so not 18 to 20 years. So we'll look at that. That's sponsored by Harley Davidson, who I get sponsored by in the US as well. So we're looking at doing something there.

SPEAKER_00 10:25

Just a question because you mentioned it before I forget. So uh on veterans rugby. So I chair the Forces Barbarians, which is a Veterans Rugby scene. What's the veterans rugby scene like in in the USA?

SPEAKER_02 11:36

I don't think there's much of a veterans rugby scene. However, I just got in it's next week. The British Army rugby are playing one of the militaries up in Seattle. But it's it's not as big, obviously. Over there, it's it's it's NFL. You know, we have the Army Navy rugby over here, which is massive. Their Army Navy rugby is also their Army Navy game is massive as well, but it's it's it's NFL. But rugby is on on the up, you know.

SPEAKER_00 12:01

Keep your weight in the ground for me out there with veterans rugby teams because forces of barbarians, we'll we'll tour out there for.

SPEAKER_02 12:07

Yeah, I've got a couple of contacts. Okay, mega.

SPEAKER_00 12:09

Um, anyway, enough about the rugby. Yes, mate. So aside from I don't wanna I don't wanna dismiss it. Aside from the MB, congratulations on the MB. And congratulations to Mrs. Otherwise. Oh, well she got it first, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 12:24

Yeah, no, I was sort of joking. My wife, yeah, my wife got it on when did she it was New Year's the New Year's Eve um uh New Year's Day or New Year's Eve honours list. Um I think it was in 2022, for her services to uh vulnerable women in human trafficking. Uh, and then also mental health because she raised a lot of money when I when I did my bike ride. So I used to sort of sort of joke and had to curtsy my wife uh for about 18 months until um yeah, it was uh the king's birthday's honors list in 2024. Uh and then I got I got it for my services to humanitarian for the evacuations that we did uh and for sport and mental health. So congratulations both of you are well deserved, well deserved.

SPEAKER_00 13:06

Yeah, um the evacuations. So I I know you took a part, I know you uh were part of uh uh uh evacuating a lot of people from Afghanistan, yeah. I hadn't realized that you're also involved in the evacuating US uh US uh uh civilians from Israel.

SPEAKER_02 13:27

Yes, huh? Yeah, so I'd um I was actually in Disneyland on October the 7th. Uh we we live about 20 minutes from Disneyland and I'd never heard it. There's a thing called Club 33 at Disney.

SPEAKER_01 13:39

Okay.

SPEAKER_02 13:40

So Club 33 is this private members' club within Disney. It's it's bars and clubs behind the walls within Disneyland. And so there's, you know, we didn't have our children that day. We had some friends who were members. I mean it's like $100,000 a year to be a member, and there's a three-year waiting list. So if you ever go to the Club 33, Google it, it's a private club, members' club within Disneyland. So you can't drink alcohol within Disneyland, but you can within Club 33. So if you go around these places, have a look at these little signs, and there's like Club 33, and there's like bars and cocktail bars behind the walls. And so I'd I've not I've only been to the one in California, but the one in Florida apparently, it's all underground. And so they take you around on the go-karts, and you you don't queue. You know, you have obviously you can pay for uh skipping the fast queue, but club 33, there is no queue, they just take you straight straight to the front. And I digress anyway. So we didn't have our kids with us because we were there with some friends, and my phone's blowing off in the day, and I'm like, there's obviously something going on. I'm a look, I'm looking at social media and I can see what's what's what's sort of unraveling in the uh in Israel. So the next morning I get a phone call for one of my friends um whose uh auntie and uncle were on a tour in Bethlehem, and as he and I are chatting, Alana's looking at the TV. And uh by the time I finished the phone call, Alana's like, uh, I've I've got you a flight. I was like, okay. And I said, Well, I've never been to Israel before. So as you as you touched on, we did evacuations uh in Libya with the Afghanistan one, it was remote, but we had infrastructure in place, so we'd already been to the country, we had safe houses, security, and things that so we we knew the lay of the land, uh, even though we're like remotely doing all these uh evacuations. Israel I'd never been to before, but I had just finished uh filming a Netflix show called Toughest Forces on Earth, and one of the episodes we did was in Jordan. So within Jordan, I knew the colonel was in the special forces all the way up to King Abdullah. And so I was messaging them guys and they're like, Yeah, we can get drivers and such. And so um my wife, she uh she got me this this flight. I think it was Turkish Airlines. You know, by the time I got to the airport, Turkish Airlines had cancelled their flight. All the American flights had now started cancelling. And so we started heading home. And there's um as we were heading home, Milana's online again, and and there was another flight, L L. LL is an Israeli airline, and they'd now started putting on more flights to get as many people back over. So she booked me this flight. We turned to turn the car around on the 405 and went back to the airport. And I'm I'm in the queue, I'm stood in the queue, and I've got um, you know, looking like I am, you know, I've got big 511 bags, boots, and you know, sat in the queue. And this I remember this woman coming up to me and she gave me this little book that said Zohar. And so there's a lot of people coming along, sort of there's a lot of scared people at the time, especially Israelis, because uh they wanted any any fighting age men to go back, and so some guys were going back on their own, some guys were just taking their whole families back uh as well, and obviously, still very much less than 24 hours after the incident, no one knew what was going to sort of unravel. So there was a lot of fear uh and uncertainty within within the queues. And I'm stood in the queue myself and Alana, and these two gentlemen are walking by and they're checking people's passports, and then obviously they're Israeli Secret Service. And so the guy's like this is in the US, it's still at LAX, so I'm not even I'm not even checked in at this point. You know, this was the hardest thing about the whole trip was trying to get out of uh get out of LA. So this guy grabs my passport and he's like, So uh who are you gonna see? I said, I don't know. So the big difference between this evacuation and the ones that we did in Afghanistan and Libya, at least we knew who we were getting, and we already knew who they were, where they were, and and and we had a plan. I was going in blind, I'd never been to Israel before. And so I said, I don't know who I'm gonna see. And he said, Well, do you have a letter? I said, No, I don't have a letter. He said, What do you do? I said, I do security. He said, Um, show me your website. I said, I actually don't have a website, and I've never had a website, I've never needed a website. The clients I work with, these in the big family offices, it is word of mouth. And so everything sounded like a lie, you know. This guy's like, Yeah, yeah, you know, so um, but I was actually, I was being fully transparent to him. I said, I don't have a website, and then so he took my passport away, he went off, came back, and he said, Yeah, okay. He he he let me he let me go in. But as he's away, his other friends stood with me, and he's like, You can see him sizing me up. He's a you M I6? I said, No, I'm too big for MI6. I was sort of joking. And then he's like, Okay, but yeah, in the end, I I I managed to get through. I got on that flight, and he actually pulled me aside just as we were walking onto the airplane, and he he shook my hand and said, you know, good luck. And so um, so Alana, she she went back home, and we had a few uh Jewish friends who lived in London, lived in New York, and we we sort of just threw the net out and just said, look, Dean's on his way to Israel, let us know if anyone needs any assistance. It was a 13-hour flight, landed in Tel Aviv. By the time I landed, Alana already had 65 families that needed assistance.

SPEAKER_00 19:00

And so what I was unaware of at this time, it was a big sorry, when you say assistance, either moving s to safe havens within Israel or getting them out.

SPEAKER_02 19:09

Just getting them out. Because actually, when when I got there, you know, when I got there, a lot of people, I'd always say to people, don't the media monster will portray something that's going on. But when you when you're actually on the ground, you have that ground truth and the atmospherics, it's totally different. Actually, it was probably the safest place in the world on October the 8th, with everything that happened uh the day before. And so what would the issue was was all the flights were getting delayed, all the flights were getting cancelled. As I mentioned before I'd even uh left LAX, Turkish airline, all American Airlines. And so what you had is a mass amount of people in Israel wanting to get out. You had also at this time, and I I apologize to anyone from the Jewish community if I get it wrong. I think it was the suked holiday. There was a it was quite a major holiday at the time. And so just out of New York and Boston alone, they had 10,000 families in Israel. And so you had these people who don't live in Israel wanting to get out. And so there was an issue with all the flights getting cancelled. And so straight away, Alana was sort of liaising with them. She was chartering aircraft. There was a lot of people wanting to do good. I remember a lady, she got in touch, very wealthy woman from New York. She goes, I want to help. She goes, I've chartered an aircraft, which great, perfect. But unbeknownst to them, they thought they were helping. But the chartered aircraft that she paid for was actually one of the commercial ones, and they cancelled that and make more money on that. And so people thought they were helping and actually being a bit more detrimental to it. Um, a lot of people, um, so the border to Jordan was only two hours away. And yeah, I think you had the kicking Abdullah Road takes you all the way into Jordan. You can go to Amman. Normally it's open 24 hours, but this during this period, it was only open for a certain amount of hours. So I had a lot of people who were non-Jewish, you know, especially a lot of people up there on holiday. I was able to use that route to get them out uh through Jordan. A lot of the Jewish people, uh, rightfully so at the time, were a bit nervous about going into a Muslim country, although Jordan's very, very safe. And yeah, we just reverse engineered during that first 96 hours. We were literally uh just getting people on flights, and we were also looking at alternative options as well. Um, but Libya, uh sorry, Libya, Israel is a very small country, you know. But the first thing we did was just to get everyone to Tel Aviv uh and Jerusalem. And I was actually doing social media posts and Alana was shouting at me. He's like, Dean, you need to play it up a bit. Because I was like, Yeah, I'm here in Jerusalem, it's quite safe, everything's good, and things like that. But the issue we had actually, you know, that there was a lot of elderly people there, and so we were tasked by their daughters and sons who were in Europe and and America to help him. And I remember going to this elderly couple, and I said, Look, I'm I'm here to help you get out of the country. And they're like, Oh, no, no, we're fine. We're gonna wait, we're gonna stay on our original flight. I said, Yeah, I know it's fine. I said, But your daughter and your son are pulling their hair out, and so the issue we had with this one was actually external pressures from people who weren't in the country. Actually, everyone in the country, you know, they're very resilient anyway. They were happy to stay. So it was a very different scenario, but I also had to factor that should we didn't know at the time, should Lebanon get involved in this, in this, in this, uh, in this war early, then that would have closed the airspace in Tel Aviv. So we were already looking at alternative options to uh for boats to Cyprus. So I was already had comms with people in Cyprus as well, that should we should the airspace close? Do we have an alternative sea option as well? So we sort of basically ended up uh building out this plan. But I saw the what was really interesting about you know me and social media have a love hate relationship. I only I you know when I was in the special forces, it was taboo. I'm I'm not used to special. Uh social media. I literally only set up social media for my world record bike ride, but I understand it is uh a powerful tool.

SPEAKER_00 23:06

Especially these days.

SPEAKER_02 23:08

Oh my god, yeah. But I saw the good and bad on social media during this period. You know, there was a lot of people messaging uh me and Alana. I was like, I hope you're not getting this group of people out, hope you're not touching this group of people out. And you know, we ignored them. And you know, we we I have to remain impartial, you know, because I I have to show no allegiance to any religion, any any politics. I have to remain impartial. And I actually did a uh TV interview, and I said, Look, I'm not a religious person, I believe in good and bad. And as a if I have the capacity to help, I'll help help anyone. But the irony was is that um of all the places in the world that I did that interview was the holiest city in the world, was Jerusalem at the time.

SPEAKER_00 23:50

Oh, you did the interview while you were there?

SPEAKER_02 23:52

Well, I was in Jerusalem saying, I'm not a religious person, I just believe in good and bad. But the irony, you know, where you are. But I also had to be mindful that should Lebanon get in, you know, I will probably end up heading to Beirut. So I can't be one of these ones saying, Oh, yeah, I'm not getting this group out and this. And I think Alan and I, over the years, nearly got 2,000 people out around the world from every religion. But then I did this is where I saw the good on social media. So there was a uh a Bible college in Jerusalem. I think it's part of the Calvary Chapel. So the pastor, Matthew and his wife Elizabeth, they're actually from Huntington Beach originally, which is only 25 minutes from where I live in in Orange County. And they they'd been in they've been in Israel about 10 years now. And they had this Bible college, they had 15 students, 14 American, and one Indian. And they'd exhausted all their options. They couldn't get these kids out. And you can imagine the pressure that they're on from the families external. You know, how are you going to get my children home? And so um Elizabeth was a big Jocko Willink fan. So that morning, Jocko, Sean Ryan, Jack Carr, all the all the SF uh podcasters had shared my video. Uh Dean's in Jerusalem. Anyone needs assistance, uh, reach out. So she said she prayed that morning. She picked up her phone, wonder what Jocko's doing. And there's my bold head. And she messaged me on Instagram. I got this message. I remember being at breakfast. And and literally 45 minutes later, I'm walking into the into the Jerusalem city, into the oldest Protestant church in the world. And I sat down with Matthew and and Elizabeth and we made a plan. And 48 hours later, we got every one of those kids out at no cost as well. So that's where I saw the good on social media and the power of social media as well. So really interesting times uh for me. So we ended up getting 220 out within 96 hours. And after that, it was almost pretty much done. But there was a lot of security companies trying to get in and they couldn't get in. So I and a lot of people like, well, how is it you as a husband and wife were able to do something that these you know multi-billion, multi-million dollar companies can't? I said, because we don't have a board of directors, we don't have to answer to anyone. We make a decision and we can pivot straight away. And so yeah, after after 96 hours, everything was done. I spent a few more days there uh building out some more infrastructure safe houses, should this prolong or or get get even worse. And then I had to then pull out because I had to be mindful of the fact that I may end up going into Beirut. So yeah, that was the uh that was the Israel ones.

SPEAKER_00 26:30

Very cool, mate. 220 in 96 hours. That is a big tally for short amount of time. What did you think of uh what did you think of Jerusalem, uh Tel Aviv, Israel in general? I haven't not been there before.

SPEAKER_02 26:40

No, yeah, absolutely beautiful. You know, um you know, I'm I'm um Tel Aviv, you know, is a is a is a a I didn't spend much time in Tel Aviv of Mono, you know, went there a couple of times, but Jerusalem, just like I touched on, I'm I'm not a religious person, but you couldn't help but feel something when you're in that in that city and within those walls, and also to have four communities living there peacefully. You you had the Muslims, the Armenians, the Jewish, and the Christians. They call it the four quarters uh of Jerusalem. So I'm definitely going back with the family. Uh my plan is we'll go back. We'll go to we'll go to Jordan, meet our friends in Jordan, uh, go to Petra, and we'll come over, but definitely wanna go back. But um, yeah, beautiful place. And uh I mean every I've been very forged. I've been to 102 countries in the world, and I've never been to a bad country. There's always something good in all these places.

SPEAKER_00 27:36

Yeah, true, yeah, true. That's that's an interesting observation, actually. Totally, yeah, totally true. There's something to be said for I mean Israel area in recent, relatively recent times, you know, such uh um what's the word? Yeah, I mean with controversy over the last 40, 50, 60 years, whatever recent times also such a rich history there. And there's some is there is something about places with a rich religious history. I'm like you, I'm not a religious person, yeah. But you know, recently uh so I was up I was up in the cost of all this last weekend because you know, for a trip to the misses and we went somewhere and it was a super old church, you know, and and there was no one in there. You could go in, but it was empty. I will quite happily go into a church and just sit there. Part of it, I think it was just the silence, like the tranquility, but also sitting there and you in this church is like the 1700s, this one was built. And you're looking around and go, Ma, you think you just sit there and think the thing this has seen and and everything that went into building this and what people thought back then, and just again, that that historical cultural aspect to it. I feel really at peace in a really weird way, and in a way that I'd rather not in a church or any religious because I'm not religious, but something works about the same as you know, Jerusalem, same as uh when I was in Iraq when I was working after I left. Yeah, you know, the the the Garden, the the place of the Garden of Eden isn't the the allegedly there's a tree there, which is the tree from which uh Eve, Adam plucked the apple allegedly, but it exists, and you go, oh my god.

SPEAKER_02 29:18

Oh no, I have more fascination, you know, like Libya of Leptis Magna. Everyone knows about the Colosseum in Rome. Leptis Magna makes the Coliseum look like Lego, you know, the history they have in Libya is educate me there. Well, Leptis Magna, because there's a lot of Italian influence as well in Libya, but it's it's like these ruins, you know, like the Colosseum. Yeah, it's just huge. It's between uh between Tripoli and uh and Tunis. Um but a lot of obviously ISIS during the during uh Arab Spring wanted to destroy a lot of these uh uh artifacts, and so yeah, Google Leptis Magna, um it's an amazing place. So when I go to these countries, like I said, I love love sightseeing, love seeing it, hearing about history. You know, I live in America, you know. They as King Charles said, you know, 250 years ago was like it was like last week, you know, they have no history there. That's why Americans love coming to Britain, they love the history because they they they they don't have it there. But going back to the religious one, you know, for me in the security industry, you you're not allowed to talk about three things that's sex, religion, and politics. You just don't do it because it will get you in trouble. And and and for me, I've been, like I say, been very fortunate to go around the world. And a lot of times I go to these places of trouble, it's because of probably one of those three reasons. Um, but I know that in London the Uber drivers have the same policy, but they have four, and it's sex, religion, politics, and football. They're not allowed. Yeah, yeah. I was chatting to an Uber driver about it. He said, Do we have the same, but we're not allowed to talk about football either? Because you know, as you know, you could pick up uh someone from the wrong part of the city. So um, so it's not that I I and I and I I I I respect all religions and I've seen it in different things, and but I've also seen how you know people use that as uh to weaponize as as well. So um, yeah, but yeah, definitely Jerusalem. I'd love to love to go back and take the family.

SPEAKER_00 31:09

Do you find this security that so your your your security? I wanna say lifestyle, this the work, the career. Well, I wouldn't even call it, yeah, it is a career, but uh I'll say I wouldn't even call it a career because it's not like it's a nine till five, there's promotion prospect, it's literally, but it's the thing you do, it's it's your met it's what you're known for, right? Apart from your your media work now, yeah. It's what you're known for. Do you do you find it can comp like where you has worn you down over time? Because it's a lot of a lot of travel, short notice, high pressure, high stress, which I know you you are comfortable in. Yeah, but also you're a family man now as well.

SPEAKER_02 31:45

Yeah, a lot's changed. Actually, now I know um I now uh am a director of strategic inities for a private investment firm. Yeah, yeah. But I you know, but you know, so we talk about the evacuations, but it's a really poor business model because I've never made a penny. I've never made one, I've never made one penny. Not one, not one penny. And the reason for that is I never like to take uh fortune on other people's misfortune as well. And I've had a lot of arguments with security companies about that. You know, you see like Eric Prince, Blackwater, flying in uh aircraft into Afghanistan and trying to charge $8,000 for a seat. It's like you could write that off completely. And so yeah, I've I've just been as a joke, it's a really poor business model because I've never made any money. But I you know, if I have the capacity to help and I can help, then that then I do that. But don't get me wrong, from that, it's give me a great reputation within the secure industry, and then from that, I look after now some of the biggest family offices in the world, and so yeah, that's where I will then profit from that. But yeah, but as you know, the evacuations things are you there's no business model in that, they're so few and far between and unpredictable. You you couldn't you couldn't make a model, you couldn't make a a business plan on that. But no, I was in Montana again. Actually, I was in Montana um last year. It was actually my anniversary, first of June, the first a whole year now I've been with this private investment firm. And I was up, I was up there and I was um at this event. Um, and this gentleman, John, who's the CEO of Silico Capital, this global private investment firm, he's everyone had their like bios, so you get to see everyone's bios. And he said, he said to his wife, he said, check these two out. And it was my bio and my wife's bio. And he came over and we started chatting, and he's like, So what is it you do? And I said, Oh, I look after some of the biggest families in the world, and I I guess speak around the world. He's like, Well, you're you're in rooms that we want to be in. And he said, Um, have you ever thought about private investment? And I said, No, I haven't. And I and I thought it was a throwaway comment. You know, we had three days up in Montana, and so that evening we're on the same table, we're chatting. Next day we're all fly fishing, and and then we do a bit of shooting, and then Proper Montana. Oh, probably Montana, probably Yellowstone. Oh my word, a beautiful place, Montana. And um, he no, he said to me on the last evening, I said, if you're still interested, let's go for breakfast the next day. So my wife and I, Alan and I, and him and his wife sat down. And so sort of put in to uh sort of go back slightly from that, probably about a year be about nine months before Alan and I had been together 17 years, and we'd been freelancers for 16 of them. And she said, she did say to me, it would be nice to not worry about a pay packet, you know, every month because we literally we were just we're just hustling, we were just working freelance. And you know, I was I was I was about 48 at the time, and I'm like, yeah, I can't be the one who's always going out doing these evacuations, and so yeah, maybe maybe I do get a full-time job. And I started sweating as soon as she said it. I thought, oh my god, full-time. I didn't do I didn't even do a full-time job when I was in the military, you know what I mean? And so I did. I thought, well, yeah, well, it would be nice, yeah. Let maybe time to settle down, uh, have a bit of stability. And so I I did. I put a resume together, a CV together, I sort of threw it out. A perfect example is like LA 28. The Olympics is literally two years away. I live in Orange County, it's an hour away LA. You know, I was fortunate, you know, when when Oh, it's in the USA. It's in the USA, the next one. LA 28, is it? Yeah. So so going back to your rugby one, uh, digress a bit, go back to your rugby one, you've got obviously the World Cup, soccer, football world cup coming up, you've got LA 28, and then the rugby world cup's coming to the US as well. So it's going to be huge. Um, so yeah, you're LA 28. 2008, when I was in the SBS, you know, we obviously got the uh the London Olympics. So we were involved in all that sort of stuff pre-London Olympics. I got injured out. I actually was working uh for Visa, uh who one of the main sponsors doing security for London Olympics, did the same in Brazil. So on paper, you know, I have a great, you know, great history with those large events, so LA28 should be great. But you know, the current world that we live in is, you know, a lot of these recruitment things are either AI or a person who doesn't understand what they're eating. So I joined the army at 17. You know, I didn't get a university degree, I didn't go to high school in America, so I didn't tick that because I didn't have that box ticked, just got through it, thrown in the bin. Uh, and then there was another one. There's uh there's just down the road from me, Andoril Technologies, one of the biggest, you know, defense plat uh technology companies in the world. They're literally 25 minutes from my my house. And a friend of mine was an investor in that, and so he put my resume on the desk to the security team. So it's got some great jobs there, which are perfect fit for it. Heard nothing. About a week later, I see this guy sort of snooping on LinkedIn. You know, you see who's looking at you, and this guy's checking me out on LinkedIn, and he's like the head of security for Andoril. I mean, I look back at him and in no disrespect to him, you're probably more qualified than he is, so he's gonna see you as a threat. And so I thought, oh, here we go. So I uh I um I ended up I was playing, I was playing pickleball with a a friend of mine, and he said, Dean, you're what did he say? I knew it was conveniently unemployable, noble knows where to put you because you've got such a vast you know career and you do a number of things, and so I sort of succumbed to the fact that I probably won't ever do a full-time job. And so then literally mum's a shame. Yeah, that's a shame. But my my worry was it wasn't about doing a full-time job, it was should there be another October the 7th. I didn't want to be tied in an office and I wouldn't be able to be able to react and deploy. And so when I spoke to John, you know, John knows the benefits and the impact it has if I go and do that. And so I now work in the world of private investment. Um, but I know that should there be an incident, he would, he would let me go anyway. And and and the you know, the the interesting thing is when I met Alana 17 years ago, she was in finance and I was in security. Now now she's in security and I'm in finance. So we've just done this, done this 180. But it'd be disingenuous of me to like be talking to people about you know um IRRs and ROIs, you know, it's just just be you, just be you. It's all about relationships. Um, and so yeah, now 49 in the world of private investment, in the world of finance, um, but still very much keeping an eye on the security stuff. The security stuff for me is so much easier now. I can just set up a WhatsApp group connected to the best people, the subject matter experts. I don't physically need to be on the ground. And Alana still runs that side of the house anyway.

SPEAKER_00 38:32

So can I ask you about the Afghan withdrawal? What did you what did you what was your perception of that in general? That the military side of it and then the civilian involvement for the withdrawals there. What do you think of the whole situation?

SPEAKER_02 38:44

Yeah, so so the military side of it, I you know, for me was why why why why there? Why could why why not do it in Bagram? Why not do it somewhere completely out of the way? You know, the the fact that they did it that way they did it in Kabul was.

SPEAKER_00 39:01

Why do you think they made that decision?

SPEAKER_02 39:04

I don't think there was much thought in the decision. That was the that was the problem. And I have a lot of American friends and a good friend of mine, he was a Marsot colonel, and he said, and and and this was powerful for me, because you you know, you'll you'll get your your critics on the news, and you know, people will have their own opinions. But when you're hearing from the veteran community, this colonel was like, I've never been more embarrassed to be an American. Really? And I was like, Wow, that's powerful, you know, that that is powerful to hear that. And so, yeah, it was just a complete You don't often hear that kind of thing, not in America, oh my god. It is literally the 180 from that, you know, they're so proud of their their military and and and and what they do. And so to hear that from a colonel in Marsa is I've never been so embarrassed to wear the uniform. That's what he said. I was that wool, and so so that obviously you know, even the military guys knew it was wrong and the way that they they they did that. So um, but yeah, if they just decided had a bit of time and decide, right, we're gonna do it from Bagram somewhere, because then anyone who's in the area is literally to it's it's obviously to exit, but you just had this whole mass exodus, and the problem you had with the Afghan one is is yeah, there were generally those people that needed to get out, but then other people took advantage of that, you know. I mean, we had something like well over a hundred WhatsApp groups, there was everything from like the British Boxing Association to the real housewives of Orange County, and it was nice to see that people wanted to get involved, it was nice to see humanity that people wanted to contribute and they wanted to help, but there was a lot of non-profits who were getting started up overnight trying to assist, and but they don't really understand the nuances or the intricacies of proper evacuations, you know. The difference between Afghanistan and you know Israel and Libya it was a paper paper exercise. You had to have the correct paperwork, but all these non-profits were getting people out into Pakistan with no passports. Well, that's human trafficking. The amount of those non-profits now being investigated for human trafficking. Oh, really? Oh, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 41:14

Oh, I didn't know.

SPEAKER_02 41:15

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, because people like people just wanted to help and they just weren't really understanding the bigger picture. So we ended up getting 1,200 people out, uh, assisting 1,200 people out. And some of the biggest Thompson Reuters, USAID, some of the biggest uh companies out there. And but we easily turned down another 10,000 because it didn't have the credit paperwork, and we couldn't move, and it was hard. It was hard. You you couldn't move anyone unless do you have a do you have a sponsor? Do you have the credit paperwork? Where's your you know, where's your final destination? And and I saw this what that was what the problem was in Afghanistan. It was a paper exercise. And where you saw the the mass, the issues with paper people storming the the walls and the gates, because what you were done, once you got your paperwork, your official paperwork, you're then given a sort of uh uh you're given a time window, a window uh to get to one of the gates. But as soon as they got it in their hands, they just ran to the gates. They weren't waiting for these, you know, the next day between two and six. And that was the issue. So they a lot of them did have the paperwork, but it they were given allocated times, and that's where it just turned into this whole mess on TV. But um, yeah, no, unfortunately, a lot of these, you know, it was nice to see humanity, but a lot of people uh illegally were getting people out, and as we're seeing now in Pakistan, if you don't have if you don't if you're not sort of the Pakistanis are pushing them back into so the Taliban are now waiting for those that after two years, you know, coming back in.

SPEAKER_00 42:44

Ah, so what you so people who evacuate into Pakistan haven't got the paperwork can't go.

SPEAKER_02 42:50

And they have a timeline, and if they don't have it in Pakistan, they go back to Afghanistan. Oh god, and so yeah, it was just uh you know, so a lot of people weren't like I said, they did they aren't fully aware of the the in intricacies, uh and we and we couldn't take that risk, you know. For us, this is something we do for a living, and so um, yeah, and obviously Alana works in human trafficking as we know, and so she's like, that's illegal. Um yeah, it's a shame.

SPEAKER_00 43:15

Yeah, what a nightmare. It was just a mess. Absolute, absolute mess. It was never gonna be pretty. It was never gonna be pretty.

SPEAKER_02 43:22

And I and I know there was a I know there's like comms issues as well. Like we were, you know, we had uh we were liaising with the US military, and we also liaising with the parachute regiment with the adjutant. Oh, yeah. And these guys are like close, but they didn't have a direct line of comms. You know, I I know the Americans didn't let their troops go on the ground and they were frustrated, and the Brits were just out the gate. Um, you know, you had issues where the media are telling people, you know, British people or people who come to Britain to go to this hotel, but it was all over the social media. Yeah, go meet this hotel. And it's like a lot of people like the Taliban. We ended up we had we were actually working with the Taliban on this as well. You know, people like what? But actually, the Taliban didn't want anything to happen during this period because it looked bad uh on them. Um so we had guys on the ground in Taliban who were giving us intelligence as well, and obviously, as you know, ISIS took advantage of that. So it wasn't actually the Taliban, but it was it was the ISIS. But Taliban were were adamant that they wanted to be the this to be as smooth as possible, um, which wasn't the case.

SPEAKER_00 44:26

But yeah, that was such a that was such a weird time. Um it's like it's sort of you know in these in kind of situations like that, you they tend to be not as big. When I say when I say situation like situation like this, I mean all of a sudden the the military veterans sort of unofficial network kicks in. Yeah, someone needs a favour. Yeah. So someone here who needs a favour that only really the military can s solve or ex military can solve. And middle person here knows someone who's actually on the ground can can affect that. It's powerful. Powerful. Difficult when there is hundreds of thousands of people all around the world, which is what it was like, all wanting to help people in Afghanistan. Yeah. And a lot of the like a significant percentage of those hundreds of thousands of people knew people who had been involved in Afghanistan and probably had a connection there who could help affect that change. And then so I remember thinking, I remember getting well knew we've got a lot smaller than me. I remember getting queries and questions and for requesting support or connection with other people. Do you know any it was because obviously I was connected with Three Power who would have been doing doing that? Do you know anyone in three power can I've got this situation? This person, it would usually be like this person is at this gate or this person's going towards this gate. Listen, they were great, they were in trip return this time. They they got there with their family, they got the paperwork, they can't get through. Can you help? And I'm thinking, fucking hell. Any other situation going, I'll ping one of the guys into three power. I know for a fact that that guy is getting dozens and dozens of messages a minute. Yeah. So you immediately feel bad. Yeah. And you feel bad about wanting to contact him and just and just put more pressure on the job he's because that's not his job, his job is to do on the ground what he's doing. Yeah. And also you feel v bad for the fact that I'm probably not going to be able to help this person. Yeah. But it's like, what'd you do? So many people are in that boat. Yeah. Because when you've got so many people that want to help but don't know how to correctly, mana makes life so much more difficult.

SPEAKER_02 46:26

No, it is hard. And I I stay away from that. Alana deals with all that. And so it's really interesting. There's a good point that you bring up is that I I don't know the names of many of the people that I evacuate. And then the reason so Lana deals with the families, Alana gets emotionally involved in this because she's having to do that. She's, you know, and she's having to underpromise and over-deliver, you know, and that and that's the thing. But the and the reason for that, you know, I know the names of the 15 students from the Bible college, uh, but everyone else I don't know. And the reason for that isn't because when I'm on the ground, I I'm I'm stoic and I have no empathy. I can't be emotionally attached to these people because if I have to make a decision, I need to have a clear view. I need to make that decision on what's actually happening in front of me and not being emotionally pulled in. So Alana and I work very differently, and I feel for Alana because she is dealing with the families and they are wanting updates and they're in tears and things like that. And so it is hard. I stay clear of that completely. I don't get involved in those communications. I'll just deal with the guys or contacts on the ground and things like that. And I try and keep myself emotionally detached from that. But it is difficult.

SPEAKER_00 47:41

It's a difficult task.

SPEAKER_02 47:42

It is a difficult task, yeah. I think the only time the one of the ones from the Afghanistan one, I know Alana was up all night on this one. There was a young boy, I think it was about two years old, he'd be beaten up as well. And he was ill and sick and things like that. And Alana was like, she wasn't going to sleep that night, you know. I think she was up well over 24 hours just to make sure that this boy and his family got through. And she received a video a couple of years later of this boy in New York watching Peppa Pig speaking in English speaking in English. And so that was a nice because we've never had comms with anyone afterwards. We we just let them go do their thing, and we were pleased that we're able to assist, but you know, we you know, we're not there for accolades and medals, you know. But some where some people really like do take advantage of that. So that was a nice video to get back. But yeah, Lana gets that emotionally attached, but when I'm on the ground, I just have to stay detached completely. It's not mean I don't talk to him, I do talk to him, I socialise and things like that, but I have to sort of have a clear, clear view, clear mind.

SPEAKER_00 48:45

How um do you find that that barrier that you put up there to try and to keep yourself detached? Do you find that that ever presents itself uh in any situations in family life where you're demonstrating a lack of empathy, and that is simply uh this is just your mechanism is kicking in.

SPEAKER_02 49:07

Yeah, you know. No, a lot you know now. I you know, after after Libya with the evacuations, I mean when they say episode 96, they go listen to that, they'll realize that it uh there was a period of time. There was one time I was in I was only home 21 days in a 365-day period, and that's when everything had to change. I had to take a sabbatical with with the You listened back to that episode, haven't you? I've told that story so many times though, that's the problem. Yeah, I tell it so many times.

SPEAKER_00 49:33

Because I remember we were building this, you like you listen to it and I said, nah, mate, it's good. No, no. Well, I I'll know what we take.

SPEAKER_02 49:39

Yeah, no, yeah, yeah. Well, I I talk about her quite often. And and so, um, but yeah, I I don't know. I used to get into this mindset that I used to disconnect from the family, and it's almost like it's like going on tour. You have to sort of almost like get into this mindset of of the mission, and then from that, and and Alana used to spot it. I couldn't spot it. Alana says it's happening. You you're now starting to disconnect from the family because you're focused on on what you're gonna do, and so that that happens. Um that's really common. Yeah, that's really common. That's really common with it. Really common.

SPEAKER_00 50:15

Uh and uh no, I'm gonna assume it's really common. And the reason I say that is because I experienced the same, I experienced in the past the same thing. Uh, and the fact that I've experienced that, that means that and we have when we were sitting here, there must be so many more people the same. And the thing is the inconvenience of that, I experienced it during the military, and I would experience it after when I was working in in Iraq, yeah, four or five years afterwards. Um it would be the problem is with it, for me, it would kick in two to three days before I was due to leave. And so my emotional barrier starts going up because I'm going into I'm going into it, you know, high threat mode. Yeah. And the problem is the for the family and the people around you, they're going into high emotional connection mode. So you literally get out, think that they're becoming they need you more emotionally available as you because they're leaving, and you're becoming less emotionally available. And it's really challenging. And I think for a lot of people early on, um when you when you're experiencing that early on in your, I want to say your emotional maturity, which for me, I I think we're emotionally maturing all the way through our lives. Emotional maturity you don't realize you're doing it, so you don't really compensate for it either. And actual fact, you tend to get agitated if you're challenged about it.

SPEAKER_02 51:26

Yeah, oh yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. I do.

SPEAKER_00 51:28

Because I'm getting ready to fucking leave to go to a place where I could lose my life. You don't want to say that.

SPEAKER_02 51:32

Yeah, subconsciously kicks in. I just get in, yeah. As you said, you know where you're going, you just start getting your mission head on.

SPEAKER_00 51:37

But it's also an absolute requirement if you ask me. You've got to be in that mindset when you go out to these places.

SPEAKER_02 51:42

But we we where we've now where we've now uh factored from that. So after the after the Canadian embassy, after that incident, you know, I would not leave the family, I would not leave, I never leave the house unless it's cleared by Alana and the kids. That's it. No one else would tell me I need to go anywhere. And that's been huge for us. So as I said, Israel, on October 8th, I'm on the phone with my friend telling me about his aunt and uncle, and Alana's already booked a ticket. So, because Alana's booked a ticket, I know that when I'm on the ground, I've got the green light from the family. You haven't gone over an argument, you haven't gone, you know, with the kids, it's quite easy. Daddy'll get you a gift, you know what I mean? Or my my well, my my my fifty, my we should be 15 next week. My 15-year-old is slightly different. It's like dad's gonna go help. We have to explain to what's happening. You know, dad's gonna go help these families, help these kids, and she she gets it completely. The two younger ones is like, what have I got? You know, what what toys are he gonna bring back? But that's the been the big difference since then is when I'm on the ground now, I know that everything's good at home. And then you're not distracted with, oh, I left under an argument or I left the family upset. And so that's the been a big change that we've done. Uh, empathy-wise, I was sort of giggling, you know, when and it's backfired on me with my kids, you know. When my kids used to fall over and hurt themselves, I used to like, so what's the lessons we learned then? You know, and Alana's like, and Alana were like, Will you just pick them up and give them a cuddle? So when we well, not long after we moved to America, my daughter had a skateboard. And I ended up, I thought I actually thought it was a skateboard ramp. It wasn't, it was actually just a wavy wall. And could it was a wall and not a skateboard ramp? Where the um where the joist was with the concrete, the wheel got stuck in that, and I just went straight over.

SPEAKER_00 53:29

Oh, you were on the skateboard?

SPEAKER_02 53:30

I was on the skateboard. I was trying to dad will teach you how a skateboard and ended up flat on my back, and my daughter and my son came over, and they're like, So, what are the lessons we learned, Dad? I actually fractured my elbow, you know. I mean, I fractured my elbow, and from that moment on, I was like, Brilliant. Yeah, they got me, yeah. So I did giggle when you said about empathy, so but yeah.

SPEAKER_00 53:51

I've like, you know, funny that I've had a this reminds me of a similar situation where white kids, when like when they were younger, I'd be like, I want they're trying to teach you about not being so worried about what other people think. And one of the things I I I would say was we were sat in a in like a square. It was in Colchester, there's like a square, a pedestrian ice square in the middle. And I was like, look, stop being so embarrassed about most people aren't even noticing. Like, yeah, like you've got like I don't know, you've put your odd shoes on or whatever coming out, whatever it was. And I said, I could go and stand in the middle of that square now, but I could just clap my hands and shout out loud. People would glance at me and then carry on. I know anything any different watch, you know, when I did it. Yeah, right. And then years later, and I was fucking embarrassed doing it, but you know, to make a point. And then years later, where were we? And and they they were they were trying to they were trying to get me to jump into some body of water. It was like a canal somewhere in Chelsea, maybe. And uh, I'm not doing that to people, I don't think I can ask you know, like that. It doesn't matter. It doesn't matter what other people think. No one cares that you think that I was fully clothed, mate. I was like, God damn it, god damn it. I think we made a bet or something. I'd lost the bet. I was like, oh my god, we jumped into the thing fully clothed. I think it's not a brother. Yeah, right. The the the uh the the traps we set ourselves when they're trying to teach the kill the children to to to something, you know, it's uh it's hard. But um I'm still torn on the kids fall over. Do you give them lots of cuddle and and attention, or do you do like you do, bit of hard, bit of hard treatment? Not hard treatment.

SPEAKER_02 55:26

I I I've changed completely, you know. Um I always say you should, you know, you learn a lot from your parents. I always you know, is take the good and the bad things, and uh yeah, like with my kids. Like I again when you go back to episode 96, you know, my dad told me I last two minutes in the military. Actually, when I guest speak around the world, I use that's my opening line. I talk about that, you know. I now realize how powerful words are to kids, you know. I mean, and so I'm very mindful of how I talk to my kids, and not how I talk, but also what I say uh as well. So we always learn from our parents. You know, I have a good friend here in London, and he's he's like, I think his father was like a a pastor and you know, very strict house. He had to book in an hour every Sunday to speak to his dad to sit in the office. But I see him now with his his kids, he's the most loving dad ever because he's the opposite of what his parents were. It's not because his parents did anything wrong, it's just the way it was in them days. So yeah, so uh you know, I I also sometimes sound like my dad now. I'm like, you know, when I was a kid, you know, especially now we've got all this technology and yeah, you know, getting old. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 56:33

Um I'm gonna take a pause. I won't when I come back. Can we talk about if it's all right? Can we get on to the toughest militaries of the world?

SPEAKER_02 56:41

Yeah, we do toughest forces on earth, and we can also probably talk about why I moved to America as well. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I was trying to think what else we could cover. Yeah, toughest forces on earth, easy. Oh, we're back, we're back on the room. Yeah, yeah, yeah. No, you kept it rolling. Yeah, I tried not to run over there and pull a mooney. I was tempted.

SPEAKER_00 56:57

Um did you move that did you move that chair back?

SPEAKER_02 56:59

You didn't, did you? I don't know. I've just been mindful.

SPEAKER_00 57:03

Um right, where do you want to so I've both yeah? So why the move to America then? Because that's going to lead into the yeah, into the SF uh seriously.

SPEAKER_02 57:11

Why we move to America? So, you know, Alan and I we always wanted to move to the US. You know, we it was always on our radar. We loved America. Actually, when I when I got injured out of Paul, a friend of mine, he he's a former Hereford guy, he had he was just he I worked for him uh on a on a project and he's at Dean, I've I may have just secured this huge maritime surveillance project up in Seattle, a five-year contract with the DOD. He said, Would you be interested? Yeah, of course I would. And so Alan and I, we actually did a road trip around America. We went to landed in New York, went to Virginia Beach, met a few of the guys there, and then just went all the way up to Seattle, did the whole of the West Coast. Um and are you warm enough, by the way? No, I'm good, but yeah. And uh yeah, we did the, you know, so we know so America that never that contract never came through in the end. Uh Alana, before I met her, she'd also done a couple of road trips around the US. You know, I'd worked a lot, done a lot of training over there as well with the special forces. And so just loved the mindset of America. And so it was always on our radar, and then we got busy, you know, did all the security stuff, we were just doing what we're doing, and and next thing we know, COVID hit. And it was the first time we'd actually paused. First time, really, we actually had time to reflect on the last uh nine years and well, nearly 10 years, and um we had a nine-year-old daughter and a four-year-old son, and we're like, well, what is it we've always wanted to do? And he's like, Well, it was always America. I said, Well, why why not now? And so when I did uh when I did the World Record Bike Ride, I couldn't get an Esther, I couldn't get a tourist visa for America because I'd been to Libya, Somalia, Yemen, I've been to all because of security work, I've been to all the illegal countries. So they had to give me a 10-year business visa to do my bike ride. And so I had this 10-year business visa still. And so COVID obviously hit in the March, I think it was March 20. Um Prince Harry, he reached out to me in February 2020. He said, Dean, I'm stepping back from royal duties because you're the security expert. Can you have a look at this uh security proposal? So I had a look at security proposal, you know. Had uh quite a few questions in it uh he sent back, and you know, they dropped their proposal by a considerable amount in 48 hours. And so at this point, we didn't know in America where we were looking, we're gonna be potentially looking. And so when we decided we're gonna go to America, I said, well, maybe we we look at California. And so we generally had no plan. We just packed up everything. We had two kids, eight bags, and no plan. And we landed in Mexico because you weren't allowed to land in the US, you had to have that 14-day period because of uh COVID. Uh remember, yeah. So we ended up landing in Mexico City. There's a s I worked with some security guys there. Alana and I, we all then went uh down to the Gulf of Mexico, spent a week there, and Alana's like looking. There's a there's a website called Zillow, and it's like a real estate um website, and it you know, whether you're gonna buy a house or rent a house. And as you scroll down on each of the properties, if you scroll down, it will give you the school ratings, the local school ratings, of the you know, the the kindergartens, the middle schools, the high schools in the area. So I wasn't aware of the political infrastructure of the US. I didn't realise that California was this blue state, and you know, but Orange County was this very strong red Republican area within California, and it still doesn't bother me, but it was impact for us during COVID. So we actually started in LA. Alana's looking in LA, and you know, the school ratings weren't great at all. They're like two out of tens, three out of tens. And so the needle just kept started pushing us south. Um, we ended up there was a place in Orange County, a place called Lake Forest, and there was a home there, it was a show home, so it already had furniture. And like I said, we literally had eight bags, nothing else. Two bags each, two bags each between us. And we said, Yeah, we'll we'll take that one. And so we just went in, went in blind, and we just uh did everything reverse. The um, you know, all the embassies were shut as well. You know, normally people will get their uh their visas uh before they go there, which means they have a social security number and things that, which means you can get credit and things that we didn't have any for that, so we were paying cash literally for the first like 18 months to two years. And so I saw a joke. We had two kids, eight bags, no plan. We now have three kids, more bags, uh still no plan. Uh but yeah, we um but for us it was the best thing we did. You know, we'd gone from Scotland, which was, you know, we were only allowed out one hour a day within five miles of your house, to Orange County. So Orange County being the red Republican hole, they weren't wearing masks, they were just going about business as as normal. You yes, you weren't allowed to eat in restaurants, but it was so warm you could eat outside. And so we were like skydiving in Lake Elsinore, we were surfing, you know, we were going out on hikes. And so I was I said to Alana, I said, I don't really want to put anything on social media because I don't want to be rubbing people's noses in it. And she says, Oh, just put something out. And so I put a post out, and everyone's like, Where are you guys? That doesn't look like Scotland. I said, Oh no, we we now live in California, and they're like that. I said, I don't mean to rub your nose in it. I said, No, please keep posting because it gives us something to look look forward to uh when we leave. And so so yeah, I ended up um adjusting my visa stats. Uh I got an EB1A and you know, but it's which still legally wise, it still was uh over a hundred thousand dollars it costed to do the legal process uh the right way. Um yeah, if you if you factor where it was a bit more expensive for us because I had the visa and Alana and the kids didn't, they had the Esther, they had to keep leaving every three months, and so they have to you have to spend 90 days in the country and leave. So they would be going to Cabo, Cancun, in Mexico, and then flying back in. But again, you know, it was really you know, sometimes Alano get pulled into secondary because they think you're playing their system when actually you're just playing them, you know, with their guidelines. Um, so lengthy and um sort of um not worrying times because any time you you could be denied. Uh but now we're there, we've got our green cards, and yeah, life's good. Um enjoying it, loving it. Yeah, absolutely. I know COVID wasn't great for many people, um, but you know, for us, we just took advantage of a situation. I always believe if you know what's the worst thing that could happen. We don't make it and we go back to Scotland. You know, I believe the un you know, the universal net or catcher, if you take the leap, you know, at least at least we tried. And so um, yeah, NASA's six years, six years into it now.

SPEAKER_00 1:04:10

Um did you ever manage to tie in with Vic Vicky and Dutch from the bike shed?

SPEAKER_02 1:04:14

I did actually, Alana and I yeah, no. So I was, I was at the bike, I had I landed on Saturday. My first meeting was actually at the bike shed. Yeah, but no, we um we Alan and I got invited to the uh the opening of the LA one in the bike shed. Yeah, I mean, since then uh Alan and I have had two events we ran out of the bike shed in LA. Uh my my uh red carpet for the Netflix we did at the bike shed.

SPEAKER_00 1:04:36

Oh, we did it another.

SPEAKER_02 1:04:37

Yeah, and then uh I sit on the board of a a veteran plant medicine non-profit called Heroic Hearts and we had Derrick.

SPEAKER_00 1:04:45

Yeah, yeah. Heroic Hearts UK, yeah, Keith. Abraham, yeah, we've been on the podcast a couple of times.

SPEAKER_02 1:04:50

Yeah, and I sit on the board of uh the US heroic hearts and Alana. Um she she helped help them uh do a huge fundraiser.

SPEAKER_00 1:04:58

Who runs the that side? Tammy is the name?

SPEAKER_02 1:05:01

I'm not too sure. Jesse Gould is the CEO. Oh, okay. Jesse Gould's the CEO, Tammy was one of the team, yeah. Okay, so we had our uh inaugural fundraiser was at uh bike shed, and I I get spot like I said, I get sponsored by Harley Davidson. We brought the Harley's there as well. Yeah, because I I live in I live in um uh Orange County. So for those who may not be aware, you have LA San Diego, Orange County is right in the middle. So I'm probably closer to San Diego. So if I if I travel into LA for meetings because the traffic's so bad there, that's just why the Harley's great. Um I always say to people if they if they come into LA, any Brits, I said if you're on the west in Santa Monica, I said go to the Kingshead pub, does a great English breakfast. If you're on the east side of LA, you go you go to the bike shed. And so I do a lot of my meetings out here at the bike shed. I need to get out there. I need to get out to that one. I'm in the one. It's much bigger than the one here. I know, yeah, I've seen the pictures.

SPEAKER_00 1:05:55

I'm in the London one all the time. Um uh anyway, I digress. I digress. Oh, yeah. So that's good that America's gone going well for you. Um I I I do it just I suppose like any country, I think it depends entirely on where you land yourself. If you're not sure, if you are not like aware of the political sort of landscape and and I stay clear of that, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:06:18

I stay clear of that. But the um, you know, for me it's like you know, I I thought it was cliche, you know, land of opportunity. But America, if you're willing to work hard, then then there is there is no ceiling. You can make but the uh the issue I see with America, there's no net to catch you either. You know what I mean?

SPEAKER_00 1:06:38

Interesting way.

SPEAKER_02 1:06:39

You know, there's no there's no the ceiling's as high, but there's no net to catch you. Like here, you know, should we should you and I have an have an incident? We go to A E, America, like do you have health insurance before you even come in? Now we were paying $2,400 a month for family for health insurance. You know, there's people over there who struggle and so. So that that's the downside. The world's your your oyster, but you've got to be quite quite careful.

SPEAKER_00 1:07:06

Question on that. How do they deal with emergencies? If you come in as an unconscious patient, how do they check you've got health insurance?

SPEAKER_02 1:07:12

They will administer. If you're unresponsive, they will obviously uh be doing that. But then it's really interesting. You hear horrendous stories of like, for example, the father he has a heart attack, goes to hospital, ends up dying in the end, has no health insurance. They take the family's house.

SPEAKER_00 1:07:30

Oh my God.

SPEAKER_02 1:07:31

That's what I mean. There is no net to catch it.

SPEAKER_00 1:07:33

Oh my God.

SPEAKER_02 1:07:34

It's so it's it's ruthless of that. The two big things that stand out for me to you, you know, America's great. There's so many great things I like about it. But you can go to any country. You can go to any country and say, this is good, this is bad. You know, the big figs that stood out for me was that pharma, that pharmaceutical one. I talk about me fracturing my elbow. You know, luckily we just got health insurance the week before. Otherwise, that would have cost me 15,000 just for an X-ray and to get a sling. But they put me on 15 grand. 15 grand. 15 grand. Yeah, there's a reason why America pushing C-sections for all these women. And America, actually, they think they have a great healthcare, they didn't know they were pushing C-sections. Oh no, they push C-sections, yeah, yeah. So Alana, Alana, our third daughter, was born in California. So Alana's had our first two children, no pain relief, no natural birth. We were going through the process, and um they're like, oh well, we we think you need you may need to have a C-section. Alana's like, no, I'm going full term. Uh well, you know, I mean, they started using um oh, what would they call it? Um started using phrases about uh fucking stillbirths and all the the baby dying and things like that, really scaremongering you. And the Lana's like, no, I'm going full term. And we had to sign a waiver with a hospital that we were happy to go full term and not have a C-session. Because for them, they want to control it, they want to have control. But other than Brazil, US has the the Brazil is huge for C-sections, isn't it? Yeah, but it has the worst uh patern paternity deaths in the world. Brazil is number one and US is number two.

SPEAKER_00 1:09:11

Oh, I didn't know that.

SPEAKER_02 1:09:12

Yeah, because they're getting involved. But the reason if they do it in the US is because if they can stick you under the knife, imagine how many thousands of dollars that is is for the pharmacy, how much pain relief you have to have after. So they're pushing that.

SPEAKER_00 1:09:24

Yeah, and so we're it's um birth by appointment, much easier to control, you can be more efficient, less cost, less resources for the hospital.

SPEAKER_02 1:09:32

Oh my god, literally it's all about the money, it's all about the money. So it's interesting. So when actually, so I've been there thankfully for all three births, and I know a lot and she has one hell of a pain threshold. Like I said, she still hasn't, and she had Harley and she didn't use any uh pain relief either. But the I know when she's about going to labour because I she's like chatting normally. I can sense it just by the way that she's gone a little bit quieter, breathing and things like that. And so when it when it came to Harley, the the woman's like, Alana's like, Oh, I think I might need some pain relief here. And I was like, Really? And she goes, Yeah, I think I do because they're telling her that she's like got ages to go. And then I was like, I mean, she Alana sat there and I could sit here breathing. I'm like, You sure? So I got the the the lady and the nurse, and she was like, Oh no, she's got ages to go. I said, Um I'm not too sure. I think you just need to have a little check. And she checked, and the baby's head was coming out, and this nurse panicked because she'd never seen a natural birth.

SPEAKER_00 1:10:34

Oh my god.

SPEAKER_02 1:10:35

Exactly. I mean, the midwife came in and told her to leave because she was just frantic. But yeah, that that unfortunately is the bad bad side about America is that is that's pharma driven, and they they want you. Did we no? I'm hearing about these young kids, 13, 14, already on antidepressants, and it but it's natural, it's like normal. And it's like it's not normal. You know, when I go to the doctors, they're like, So what medicines are you on? I said, none. I'm like, sorry, uh we're on none, you know, because we come from a European culture. And I remember having uh, you know, this doctor, she was she was like, Yeah, she kept using the word stillbirth. And I was like, Look, you need to be careful what you say.

SPEAKER_00 1:11:11

Yeah, shut the fuck up.

SPEAKER_02 1:11:12

But it was quite good, it was a good cop, bad cop, because Alana was like telling the F off. And then I was like, Well, you know, in Europe we do things slightly different, and we do things naturally, and she goes, Yeah, we have the best healthcare in the world. And I said, and I and I quoted on it, I said, You have the second worst in the world behind Brazil. I said, You Europe has a great healthcare. And she walked out of the room. She knew that she couldn't change our mindset, but when you were born into that from the US, you think it's normal. You think it's normal. So yeah, that and the the gun culture is always the big one for me. Although I get sponsored by Sticato and Lupo.

SPEAKER_00 1:11:43

Every cloud, mate, every cloud.

SPEAKER_02 1:11:44

Every cloud, yeah, yeah, yeah. Oh no, every cloud. And and and it wasn't so much gun culture. I I get it, it's the the Second Amendment and things like that. But you know, I get I was chatting to a young guy the other day, he's a a friend of mine. We met at the bike shed, and he said, Oh, my god, my godson's coming, he's uh a Gurkha officer, he's off to Estonia for six months. So he came in and joined us, and we were just chatting away. And I get sponsored by Sticato Pistols, and so part of the contract is that they'll give you all the pistols, and each year they'll give you 12,000 rounds of nine mil. I was like, Yeah, well, I've got like two years worth. Is that 24,000? That's more of my battalion. And I was like, Yeah, probably, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:12:22

The cult the gun culture out there is gun culture, but also the ammo states of British units for training are like diabolical. And I was like, I've been diabolical, man.

SPEAKER_02 1:12:35

If there's a way, I'd sell them mine, but I can't, you know, be illegal completely. But um, but yeah, no, it I I get it with the Second Amendment over there. It's interesting because a lot of people like I was telling them about Scotland during COVID, and it's like, well, that's because you don't have a Second Amendment, you know, it wouldn't be able to enforce it here, so you know. So I I do agree in the Second Amendment. I just don't agree that you should be able to buy any weapon any caliber, you know, that there's a difference. You can be more effective if you're trained on a pistol than someone who's not trained on an AR-15.

SPEAKER_00 1:13:06

Yeah, so definitely on the subject of effectiveness for weapons, what was the experience like going around the world and visiting and learning about the different special forces units? That must have been something else.

SPEAKER_02 1:13:19

Yeah, so so TV wise, I I mean you know, here I turned down SES, Who Dares Wind. Oh, I didn't know that. Yeah, yeah, no.

SPEAKER_00 1:13:27

So um Are you glad of that decision?

SPEAKER_02 1:13:30

Is it oh you wouldn't have gone to the book? It's interesting, yeah. So it's it's in my book. Uh it's it's in Relentless. We we talk about it in there. So a guy reached out to me, uh Andrew Slater, back in I want to say 2015 now. And he he's like, Dean, we're we're we're running this show. Uh he was working representing the.

SPEAKER_00 1:13:48

I just have to mention this on episode 97. I must have done, yeah. Minnow films, it was, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:13:51

And he came up and then, you know, I I like the idea, you know, but we didn't have anything to base it on. You know, I think the the the only thing we had to reference was S U Tough Enough with Eddie Stone or whatever, something back in the 90s, which was, you know, which wasn't that great. And so I said, look, you know, I like the idea, but it needs to be cleared through the MOD. And obviously, Ant had just come out of prison, so he didn't have any work. Foxy had PTSD, so he couldn't work in the secure industry. So I set up this WhatsApp group called Hollywood, and there was Ant, Foxy, there was a few other guys within the group, and um and then yeah, I mean I I I spoke to SBS. Then I get a letter from the MOD basically telling me to step away from this project. So I I did, I stepped away, but Ant and Foxy were like, Do you mind? I said you guys take it, and they went on and and did it. And you know, hindsight is you know, I'm still glad I glad I I I went with my my my decision because it actually helped me later on down the line, helped me with the MOD disclosure, especially when I did my book, because they saw that I had an opportunity to maybe go the fast track. Uh my bike ride obviously helped, and so it did help me later on uh down the line. But yeah, I got asked to do SAS Australia when I was in the uh in the US. So I went and did SAS Australia. So that was my first exposure of TV. But actually, before I did SAS Australia, I get a phone call from so when I did my bike ride, I don't remember Harry and I, Prince Harry and I did a promo video together at Kenton Palace, which was going to help promote this bike ride and give it as much exposure as possible. So one of the girls who was working on that production company was now working with this this new production company, and there's a company called Emporium Films, and they had a show on Netflix called Inside World's Toughest Prisons. I think it's on its like seventh season, it's where uh an ex-convict from UK goes around the world visiting these prisons and see what the differences are and stuff like that. And so they wanted to do a spin-off of that. Uh so original was gonna be called Inside the World's Toughest Forces. So when it came up with a concept and got a green lit from Netflix, they obviously needed to look at candidates. So the the lady who now was working with this production company remembered me from the interview we did at Kensden Palace, and so she reached out to Alana. This is right, this wasn't long uh getting into the US. Actually, she's probably had a big lead of COVID when I was still in UK, actually. This and said, Oh, we want to put Dean's name forward. And Alana's like, Yeah, yeah, put his name forward. I sort of joked, the only reason I did this show is because my kids think I'm a stolen valor, you know. My kids, my kids, because all my kids were born me post-military. Like, Dad, you weren't in the military. I was like, What? And so I thought, yeah, we'll throw my name in. And then anyway, it um about uh a year a year later, I get a phone call saying, Look, your name, you you know, we had 150 candidates from UK, and we went, You're you're the one that came out. And I said, Really? Because I still hadn't done any TV at this point. I said, and then there was other people in there who've done TV in the SF community. I said, Oh, really? I said, Well, what's the premise of the show? And I said, Well, you know, you look like you were the fittest, you're gonna be doing selection eight times. I was like, what? Luckily that wasn't the case, and so yeah, my I ended up going from 150 candidates to me. I was like, perfect. And they went to Netflix, and then Netflix, US were like, well, we were thinking more of an American, and so thankfully for me, the production company, I know no, Dean's your guy, and they said, Well, maybe we have two hosts, and so uh we we then had to go out to Dallas, went out to Dallas, did this chemistry test. There was a a Green Beret, there was a Marsock guy, there was a couple of SEALs, and and and then we spent about three days together. We did some go-rucking, we had a barbecue just to see what what we were like, and we ended up uh uh going with Ryan Bates, who was a SEAL. Um, he he he was actually in one of Joco's teams, actually. Yeah, so he he came on board, and then the the commissioner who commissioned this show commissioned Top Gear back in 2005, and he said it doesn't work with two hosts. He said, You need a third, you need a full guy. Um, and so right at the 11th hour, just before we're about to go start filming, the production company like, right, we've found a couple of guys on social media, they've got some big followings, I think they're on YouTube or something. Um, you're gonna do a zoom call uh with each of them. So this first guy comes on, you know, looks the part, every now, but he actually wasn't special voice there, I think he was a Coast Guard. I was that, and so when the call finished, I said that doesn't work, you know, it has to be someone from the community, otherwise it's gonna be blaringly obvious. So then the next one came on was a guy called Cameron Thaff. You know, he did four years in the Rangers, you know, he hadn't really hadn't deployed, and it's not his fault, it's because he just the period of time that he joined. But he comes in, he's got his beautiful hair, he's got his nose ring in. And I'm like, I said, what the fuck is this? I said this American Idol, like that. But um, we ended up going with him in the end. But actually, it worked out really well because he is a YouTuber, uh, he's very confident in the camera. Whereas for me, I'm like, get that thing out of my face. You know, he's like, he's very good. But where it works out really well is because he everything that we did on the show, and I'll cover a bit about the show, you know, everything we did on the show I'd done before. And so for me, I was sort of retracing old steps and sort of reminiscing, like, you know, we did it here, here. Everything that he was doing, he was doing for the very first time. He'd never even dived before. He had to go do his uh paddy course off Catalina Island off LA. You know, he'd never been to the Arctic before, you know, and things like that. And so what was great about that is that you're the audience could relate to him because he was genuine, he would be able to tell you how he's genuinely feeling at that point. Whereas for me, I'm like, man, he needs to occupy that role on his part as well.

SPEAKER_00 1:19:39

It's some humility to occupy that role in his part. It does, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:19:41

No, and he came off really well. He he he he he did he did well out of that. It was good. So yeah, the premise. So this show was called Toughest Forces on Earth, and I sort of joke, it's like Top Gear with guns, but we couldn't call it Top Gun. And it's like three middle-aged white men flying around the world, uh showcasing what's unique about the special forces. So the first episode that aired, we're in Jordan. So we're out doing mobility training in the desert. The next one we're in Sweden and we're doing the seer survival course, and then you're in the jungles of of Colombia. So it was it was really good. And like as I said, everything I'd done, I'd done before. The only thing I hadn't done before when we were in Malaysia, they had this on this survival exercise where they strip you down, they just give you a pair of like shorts, you've got your webbing on and your weapon. I mean, you're covered head to toe in just mud, thick mud. And it and it's basically surviving the mangroves, and they're building like these shelters out of the trees, you know, grabbing snakes and things like that. So that was a that was a first for me, for me. But everything else, you know, I'd done, you know, I'd done my Arctic warfare instructors, you know, so I'd done the icebreaking drill. So I was the first one to go through the uh to through the ice uh on that one as well. So, but you know, typical Brit was like non-emotional, like but Cameron, the young guy, he was he was actually ill before we were about to go in the war. And I said to him, I said, Look, mate, you don't need to go. You talk about humility. I said, You don't need to go in. This will this will see you off. He's and but he knew he's like, No, I need to do it. I mean, he was written off for the rest of that episode, yeah. Oh really? Yeah, yeah. It was man down. Yeah, it was man down on that. But yeah, it was a it was a great show. And I I saw a joke that um, you know, Netflix gets quite criticized in its content and being quite quite left or quite woke. So three middle-aged white men flying around the world has centered a needle for them. Um and we needed uh they needed six, I think the the numbers were they needed six and a half million views in the the first month to to look at a second season. They got 10 million in the first week. Smashed it. Absolutely smashed it, yeah. So it was a great show. And like I said, it for my kids, it was just just you know, prove that I wasn't stolen valor. Um, and they still haven't watched it, you know. I mean, I think my my daughter, she found out that they they they did a a uh a back nude of me. I was stripping in in Sweden and she's just like disconnected the Netflix on the house. Yeah, she's like my god, my friends are gonna see my dad naked. Um, but no, it was it was it was a great show, and um what was really important at the time is you know, globally you're seeing I think in other than the US Marine Corps, most units around the world are struggling on recruiting. Um really, yeah. Obviously, because you know you no longer got a conflict and and things like that, you know, with 10 years post Afghanistan. So recruitment's at an all-time low around the world. So a show like this.

SPEAKER_00 1:22:34

So I remember the US saying around the world.

SPEAKER_02 1:22:37

I I use the UK and probably uh U US. Okay, you're not using the U.S. Yeah, when around the world, but actually interesting, before that's a truly American view of around the world. Yeah, well, America, America, America around the world is east coast to west coast. There's nothing outside the US, you know what I mean? So that is around the world.

SPEAKER_00 1:22:56

It's like a World Series, you know.

SPEAKER_02 1:22:58

But I remember I was chatting to one of the officers at the US Navy, and he's like, basically they got told they were doing this. It was a US Navy EOD guys, and he said, and actually, when we finished, he said, that was amazing. You know, for our recruitment, he said, other than Maverick, you know, this would be the biggest thing for them. So if they do do a season two, I think it'll be a lot easier for us to get into some of these other units. You know, we get we were chatting to there were conversations with other units from other places around the world, and because there was no baseline, there was no first season to show them what it was going to be like. A lot of them thought we were gonna try and make them look bad, and that wasn't the case at all. And so if they do get a season two, it'll be a lot easier. I mean, a lot of these other units may want to do it because it's good, it's good recruitment. Um, but the issue is with Netflix, when that show finished, they swapped out the whole department within non-scripted. So we've got new people in now, and you know what it's like when new people come in, you know, it's like having a new troop commander, he wants to leave his mark, and you're like fucking so we'll see. So as soon as that needle starts uh going left again, we'll get called back in. But it was a great experience, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:24:07

No, it sounds like it was. Sounds like it was. I'm gonna have to go and watch. I haven't seen the series, I'm gonna have to watch it.

SPEAKER_02 1:24:12

Yeah, it is it's it is it's good, yeah. Like I said, and for me, it was like um, you know, I never been to Malaysia and the Philippines, and actually, the Philippines, you know, a lot of people like I never heard of the YAG commando, tier one special forces from Austria. Okay, but yeah, same capabilities as SAS and SBS. So for them, I got really well because I knew the TTPs, but obviously, because of the the Second World War, they're they're a neutral country. It was actually interesting uh because they were like they're very proud Austrians, and uh there's so many scenes we had to cut as well. They're like, well, you know, we have uh a famous person from uh Austria whose uh initials are A, and I was oh Adolf Hitler that cuts. Oh, Arnold Schwarzenegger, sorry. So we had a lot of fun on there uh as well, but yeah, like I said, I you know, and you know, probably my own fault, really. I'd never heard of the AG Commando, but these guys are amazing.

SPEAKER_00 1:25:09

That whole part of Europe, northern Europe, their uh special forces military capability to me is such an unknown quantity for the reasons you sort of alluded to it. I think they they don't have a well-known rich history of ESF uh operations. Obviously, there's some um there there are some high-profile stories and things from the second world war, right? But it there's something in me says I reckon a lot of those units are just quietly absolutely ninja level, but just haven't had the conflicts to be involved in to be for those their capabilities to become known, which kind of sounds kind of like what you're alluding to with your Austrians there. I don't know. What do you think about that?

SPEAKER_02 1:25:57

With the what's the Austrian thing, yeah, yeah. They were deployed in Africa, but they have to be and then they did go on deployments, and um you know the great thing nowadays is there's a lot of content out there that they they you know and equipment, you know, well the Glocks from Austria, they they know as an as a country, they they they they they have some of the best weaponry in themselves, and so but yeah, I think yeah, secretly behind the doors, these guys are are um uh amazing, if not on par with UKSF. They just haven't had the opportunity for the world to see them, if that makes sense. Um but yeah, I think everyone, I think whereas in the past there was a huge difference in within capabilities, I think that's that's massively narrowed. I mean, now when he's talking about the the the modern battlefield with um AI with drones and things like that, that's gonna change again completely. You look at the Ukrainians, probably the best in the world when it comes to drone warfare. So, you know, uh probably us we can learn a lot. But what one thing I did pick up on that um that Netflix show and we were chatting about earlier was was the Britishisms. Everywhere I went, you could see that UK has had influence around every special forces unit in the world. We've had impact.

SPEAKER_00 1:27:10

One none that you went to, all of them.

SPEAKER_02 1:27:12

Everyone, you know, even even the command uh we were in in Colombia and and the unit we visit there was the Hungala Police. So these this is a law enforcement unit, probably has bigger budgets than most special forces units in the world. So these guys had skydiving capabilities, all live weapons, and they're on the ground police, uh Google them, the Hungala police, J-U-N-G-L-A. But unlike where we're going on deployment to foreign countries, they're literally getting rounds down every week against the cartel uh at home. So these guys are like, are they amazing? So we're in this schoolhouse in the jungle, and I'm having my breakfast, and I'm looking at their logo, and it's like the royal lion in the unicorn. How's that? That's British. And they're like, Yeah, you guys set us up in 1975. I was like, Yeah, of course we did. Uh, and then when we go over to Malaysia, you got you turn up at the camp, uh, the GGK, and it says the home of the Green Beret, and you see the coveted Green Beret, and I was like, Oh, not the American Green Beret. No, 40 Commando back in the 60s, they helped us with our training. And I was like, there's a thing here, there's there's Britishism uh everywhere. And so um, I'm putting a book together at the moment which uh talks about SF Blueprint or SF origins, talks about how UK has had impact and influence around every special forces in the world. You know, a great example from the US. Colonel Beckwith spent two years from 1975 to 1977 attached to the SAS. He saw selection, saw the counterterrorism training, and said, We need this.

SPEAKER_00 1:28:44

Little Beckwith being who the guy who set up Delta?

SPEAKER_02 1:28:45

So Colonel the guy who set up Delta, yeah, and he went back and said, We need the capability we have here, and went up and set up Delta Force. So Delta Force was born out of a two year exercise long look with a colonel with it with the SES. The SEALs were born out of the U.S. UK. You know, we interesting enough, you talk about 250 years ago, the Americans defeated the British, you know, because we were still on the thin red lines on the battlefield and they introduced this guerrilla-style warfare, six to eight-man teams behind enemy lines. They defeated the Brits, but then the Brits took that model and deployed it in the Second World War with a long-range desert group and things like that, and how ri whole reverse, we've given that back. You look at the failings of Operation Eagle Claw, the failed Delta Force hostage rescue mission in Iran, and then you look at Operation Nimrod, the success of that, that then became the template for counter-terrorism. And so, yeah, so UK, and obviously to do with the Empire, it had massive impact on nearly. I don't mean there's uh I don't think it's a a it'll be interesting as I start we as we and guests start building out this book, it'll be interesting to see who hasn't had any influence on the U UK.

SPEAKER_00 1:29:55

Yeah, that'll be a great read, to be honest. That's uh I there's like there's not a lot of aspects of British SF military history that haven't already been covered. Yeah. But this is like seems like one that hasn't really been covered, and it's quite major. Well, it is major.

SPEAKER_02 1:30:12

Yeah, and and I think you know, in the current world, everyone's like, oh, mention the empire, everyone sort of bows their head down. They should be proud of the empire. Not me. Oh my god. I sort of joke. I live in America now, and everyone tells me oh, they're like 16% Irish or 7% Scottish. Not one who'll tell me they're English. I'm like, Well fucking hell.

SPEAKER_00 1:30:33

Right. Um look at the time to start wrapping us up, mate. But I've got a question for you. Um but I'll be before we end, I just want to I'll check. We've covered uh there's uh stuff we if there's anything we haven't covered that you need to come with.

SPEAKER_02 1:30:48

Um my next challenge, maybe, yeah. Next I've got another challenge. So that wasn't my question, but yeah, no, no, no, no, no. It's perfect. You know, as we talk about Alana, Alana's doing a lot, you know, she's been uh uh an advocate of human trafficking for 25 years.

SPEAKER_00 1:31:01

If Alana is over ever over, mate, put me in touch.

SPEAKER_02 1:31:04

I love to, yeah, yeah, no, we won't get her on because uh she she won't like talking about herself, but if you start talking about grooming and the human trafficking, you know, you need to drag her off because she's she she will uh she's um huge in that space. And so she has a non-profit called Blue Rose, and the United Nations International Organization on Migration have now partnered with her, and so they're looking to um uh reach 300 million girls by 2030 on anti-grooming. So all human trafficking now is done online, you know, the old the whole taken theory that you know, the movie that's nothing, nothing like that. But I digress. So on that, so you know, Alana sort of joked, you know, she never liked me in lycra, you know, she didn't marry me because I looked like Lance Armstrong. So I've not really been on a bike since I did the world record bike ride. But I was guest speaking in an event in um Park City in Utah, and one of the guys is like, What's the next challenge? And it's about a month before I did the boxing. I said, Well, I'm boxing next month. I said, but you know, when I talk to when I tell people about the Pan American Highway, which is from Argentina to Alaska, there's a famous ride in America called the race across America, and a lot of people get mixed up with that, and so you know, but Pan American Highway is about five times as long. So I was like, Well, next year's my 50th birthday. I said, I might race across America. So one of the guys, Noah,'s like, Well, I'll do with you. I was like, perfect. And then by the end of the free four-day conference, I had eight riders, I had a whole team. I mean, Tony, who's gonna be riding as well, he's a six foot eleven chiropractor. Uh, he's like, I've got two other riders. So next thing we know, we've got now two eight-man teams. And I said, Well, look, we if we don't, if you guys don't mind doing it, these people are very successful in their own right as well, um, with a huge network. I said, We'll do it for Blue Rose and the United Nation IOM. So, yeah, next year, June next year, a year from now, we will race across America to eight-man teams and raise awareness for that. So, that's the next challenge. So, the only the only way I get signed off on any big projects like that now is if as long as I do it for Alana's uh Alana's cherries. So that's not next challenge, but I appreciate it. Let me get that in right at the end.

SPEAKER_00 1:33:07

No, no, I was going to ask, but I I totally forgot that was that was going on. No, good luck with that, mate. Um, my oh if there's a link for that, let me know and I'll show it.

SPEAKER_02 1:33:16

I'll start sharing it soon, yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:33:18

Okay, my question is so um with we're so we're XSF personnel operators, whatever you've referred to about, leaving and going down the uh making themselves a a celebrity. Okay, and I'm thinking uh what I think Foxy and now Foxy, I don't think it was intentional. Like it wasn't that wasn't the pattern, it just sort of happened to him amp, the sounds of it, just sort of happened with the opportunity. J. Carl, the most recent one. Yeah, uh, you've got I was gonna say Craig Head. I don't think I wouldn't count Craig Head in that, it's a different different like he was unintentionally became uh in a commerce household name and sort of riding that wave now. Yeah, uh um but there's a few other notables, right? Now uh my question is I see why it's done, it makes total sense. It is a career path where you can leverage your SF SF background, which is a huge thing that you can leverage in in Series 3 in multiple different ways. Yeah, yeah. One of the ways is that route, right? Jake Halley's is the most recent obvious one. Yeah. Now, what do you think about the the regular PNGing of people who go that route, especially where where they are naming units they were part of, where they haven't had authorization. You've mentioned USBS. Yeah. I know I I'm pretty sure I know people who've been PNG'd for doing the same thing. I think they haven't had prior approval, or they mention it in a book here or whatever. Right. To me, it seems like there is an outdated policy sitting somewhere there that is being enacted by the MOD or the SF units to PNG people who do not deserve to be PNG'd. For people who don't understand this, I'm talking about persona non grata, where a where there are, I want to say, formal and informal restrictions or uh basically placed on XSF people who are basically no longer welcome to the SF unity unit they were once part of. Yeah. I'll just I'll just describe it like that. No, no. What do you think about that situation? Because I think it's a fucking nightmare.

SPEAKER_02 1:35:33

Yeah, it's it's it's a it's a great question and the timing's really good as well.

SPEAKER_00 1:35:36

Pasha Monroe is my one my most recent uh guest. Yeah, he's PNG'd, which really surprises me. Yeah. Uh because I've just been PNG.

SPEAKER_02 1:35:46

I I'll I'll tell you this the story. This is a metric. You as well. Yeah, okay. But I wasn't originally. So what you do is when you go into selection, you find you sign the Official Secrecy Act. The Official Secrecy Act was born out of after the Second World War, 1944 onwards. So it's a we're basically trying to they're trying to uh adhere to a law that was uh that was was from 1944 in a modern world. So when I did my so one of the reasons I turned down SAS was because of that. I didn't want to get PNG'd.

SPEAKER_00 1:36:17

SAS who dare wins.

SPEAKER_02 1:36:18

S who dares wins. I didn't want to get PNG'd. I wanted to, you know, I wanted to obviously I was doing so obviously I was still doing evacuations and stuff. I needed to keep my head down. And you know, I and I was like, ah, I don't want to upset the community, you know, things like that. And like I said, we didn't have anything to reference, you know. Uh Foxy Nan. And and the thing is, Foxy and Ann, the reason the you know that the MOD got upset is because they filmed the show and then told them the MOD liked to know about everything. And so where I was successful in that, in that case, is my bite ride. You know, I turned that down, told them about my bite ride, did my bite ride, told him, did the book, told them about my book, gave them access to my book. And the great thing about my book is I actually don't talk about SF. I had so many stories post-sf. Um, my book got green lit, you know, I have the email, you know, all of this. Um I then get uh then moved to America, do all that. So everything's good. Everything's good. And I then get a um an email saying, oh, your name's come up. I actually didn't get the email. The email dropped in my junk, and you have like 10 days, said your name's come up for potential PNG. And I was that. So by the time I responded, I'd missed the 10 weeks and said, Oh, you've been PNG'd. And then I I didn't even bother arguing because actually what you do, if you do anything, if even be prior to me being PNG'd, if you're gonna do any media interviews, podcasts, anything like that, you need to let them know. And then they will uh they will then give you what's called an e-port. An e-port is express prior authority in writing, and basically it's exactly the same. Every time you you they send you it, it's exactly the same. It's the same template. You cannot talk about this, this, this, this and this, which is actually, and I've never done that. You know, you don't talk about names of guys, operations, TTPs, and things like that. But as you touched on, I can tell you I'm in the SBS, you know, where the SBS based, they're based in Pool. How many squadrons you've got? You've got four squadrons, it's all online. And so they were in a world where actually there's access to that information anyway. But if you ask me certain questions and I I can't answer that, I mean I just won't I won't answer that. So they tell you to do an ePort, but imagine doing a Netflix show. How many e-ports you got to do do for that? So I actually was like, okay, got PNG'd. I didn't even argue it. I was actually means I don't have to actually.

SPEAKER_00 1:38:37

You're not sure why, you don't know. No, to do it for Netflix.

SPEAKER_02 1:38:40

Yeah, no, no, it wasn't. So I went and did the Netflix show. Did the Netflix show. I ended up coming back to the UK. I went on a few podcasts. Uh I did an interview with the mirror. I think it was the mirror. Literally a day after the mirror, I got an email for uh uh a message from the MOD saying, Oh, your name's been put forward for PNG. And I was that, I thought I got PNG'd last year. Oh, uh I said, Do you know what you're even doing? I I sort of challenged them. And I said, Well, what I said, why ever why am I being PNG'd? Oh, because you you mentioned you mentioned um uh mentioned mab in one of your YouTube podcasts, MOD block alpha. You can you can Google it, it's online. Yeah, I actually didn't mention that. So you weren't you didn't care that I did a Netflix show, went round the world. They weren't worried about that, it's because I'd mentioned Mab. But you didn't mention anybody, which I didn't mention Mab anyway. I was like, because I said, Well, show me that one. And then I mean I said, Well, actually, I've done everything within your guidelines. And I said, Well, show I I said, and then they said to me, You can't seem to be financially gaining on the back end of being in the special forces. And then I was oh yeah, no, no, this is brilliant. So I went, I so I went, I went back and I said, So everyone that's on LinkedIn, so when you go in, I remember going on one of the I remember going on one of these uh these workshops when we were leaving, and uh, and we were like, 'Cause it was a gray area. Like, do we tell people we're in the special forces on our CV or not? I said, Yeah, of course you do, because there's a lot of people out there who aren't who are doing it, you know, get it on your LinkedIn. And so so that you can't be financially gaining. So like the lights are through dark, they've all been the same. And I said, so I got a legal team. I got my I got my legal team to question their legal team. And I said, please show me the official secrecy act that I signed, and can you please highlight the paragraph which states that I cannot financially gain on because I would have remembered that. Oh, it got destroyed in an archive. So there actually is no contract then. In a legal world, you would get turned over. And and so I'm like, and then also when you sign the official secrecy act, you don't have a legal representation there, so it's void, nil and void anyway.

SPEAKER_01 1:40:55

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:40:56

So the problem is, the problem they're doing, and I've I have this out with them all the time. The problem is is you with the SES who days wins era, you didn't clamp down on it early enough, and there's this whole waterfall effect, and you just you're trying to you're trying to implement a 1944 document in a modern world. So as long as the guys, I say the guys, you know, you have to. Foxy had to go on SES who days win. He couldn't get any work. Yeah, Stas and Louis, you know, they're they're not talking about TTPs and things like that, but they're a special forces background and they're using their experience to make cold weather clothing. And so all it is is actually, and then I found out later on about there was an officer who basically didn't even look at and he said just PNG them all. Because he thought it would have a it would have a ripple effect, and other guys wouldn't get out. But yeah, so so for me, it's like, yeah, you've been PNG'd. I was like, well, am I PNG'd now? Am I gonna get another one next year? Because you guys, left hand's not speaking to the right, and so but we're in a different world now, you know. For me, actually, when they told me, I was like, great, I mean I don't have to fucking request epour all the time, you know. I mean, but it's not stopping, you know. But when you do get out, you you are loyal to the military and the guys. You know, I speak to my friends who are RSMs and they they don't care. It's just a small group in Whitehall here who are trying to really uh and all it is is they want to know what you're doing all the time, and they're trying to control you when you've left. It's like I've been out 15 years. Why do I I actually I I tested them? Um I tested them about an e-port. I said, Oh, I'm setting up an office here in in London. This private investment firm, you US base, is setting up a private invest uh an office in Mayfair. Oh, oh, you need an epoch request for for what? It's a private investment firm. They're just trying to get hold of everything because they've lost control. Because they didn't clamp down on it earlier, they're trying to catch up late and it's too late. You know, that that ship sailed. Yeah. And so so for guys, but it is is hard because at the beginning I managed to stay on it on a really good line because because I did the will record bite ride. I remember one of the guy who was he he he mentioned to Nim, speak to Dean. You know, Dean's managed to do it right. He's he has a public profile and he's still within the guidelines of the of the military. Because I was could I turn down SES and I I did a will record and put so much money back into mana, I was putting the the community in a good light. And so that's why that book all got all got green lit as well. So but yeah, it's uh it's it's frustrating for guys because a lot of guys are like, well, I I I I can't can I work? Can't I work? You know, it's like look, you know, do what you do what you need to do.

SPEAKER_00 1:43:35

Yeah, exactly. Exactly. You know what I mean?

SPEAKER_02 1:43:37

You've done your time, you've done that, you know.

SPEAKER_00 1:43:39

Allegiance, you know, it you your allegiance to what what you were part of needs to have a has little limits to it, sensible limits, uh, where needed, like like the guys, the unit. Yeah, absolutely. Yeah, yeah. You know, you're never gonna you're always gonna have a allegiance to that. But outside of that, like archaic governance, uh, you know, rules and regulations that are just completely outdated and are going to and are going to limit how successful you can be after you've left that unit, nonsense.

SPEAKER_02 1:44:08

And they don't realise actually how how powerful social media is is for the ministry. The SAS UDES wins, regardless of what you think of the show, and there'd be a huge recruitment huge for recruitment.

SPEAKER_00 1:44:16

Exactly. Craighead, same thing. Yeah. If they that if they had handled it a totally different way, that could have been an amazing PR exercise for um the reputation of uh recruitment SF. I think it was anyway, but they could have really rolled that wave in an official way, you know.

SPEAKER_02 1:44:33

Yeah, and I and I think you know, everyone I know that's gone out, you know, you know, all of like Ludman and Foxy and things like that, we're never bad mouthed the military. I always I you know I love the military, you know, different if you're getting out and you're throwing mud. And then I mean I can see why they can be quite defensive. There was a guy, I remember seeing him, I can't remember his name. Is it is this navy seal, got big ginger beard. He was talking about this actually, and he said it's not because a lot of guys, oh, it's jealousy from those that are still in. And it's not it's not the case at all. He highlighted that actually you're so doctrinated when you're in, is like we are the best in the world. We this is what we do, you know, blah blah blah. How can you be successful out there? You know, why are you doing, you know, that's what the that that's the mindset of those that are still in.

SPEAKER_00 1:45:15

I I've mentioned this little anecdote to people before we wrap it up, mentioned this little anecdote to people before, and it was quite quite a few years ago, not long after I sat on the podcast, and I asked someone who is in Hereford. Okay, someone who's in Hereford, I said, and I can't remember what we were talking about, but I was talking about someone else had written a book. I mentioned this person who'd who'd written this book, yeah, another SF guy, and that name came up. And the guy I was talking to is still in the unit, basically said, I can't stand, I can't stand those people who sell their souls to the devil. He was talking about people who get out and write about their military career in a book. And I and I was thinking, wait till you leave. And your perspective's gonna shift.

SPEAKER_02 1:45:58

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:45:59

Your perspective's gonna shift because all he's done is write a book about his military history. He's not compromised anyone in the unit. Yeah, yeah, yeah. He's just gone against the rule that you think he should follow when you're in. Yeah, when you leave, your priorities change. You've got to create them here. And if you can leverage your military background in a way it doesn't compromise the unit or people, you should leverage it. Yeah, for all the reasons we've sort of touched on that.

SPEAKER_02 1:46:19

I think my book was alright because I didn't have to touch on that ministry. But the irony going back to the PNG, so I got I got a letter that I got PNG'd within the same week, was the King's Birthdays Honours list, and I got awarded the MBE. I was like, so let me get this right. You guys are PNG me because I have a profile for evacuating people for doing world record bike rides, and the your commander-in-chief has just given me the MBE. Answer that one.

SPEAKER_00 1:46:49

Talking about leveraging military history, uh, military career. So Harry's production company. Yes, yeah, they just got signed off for a new Musicala written by No Way Out. No way out. So I was in that siege. Oh, in the book. Oh, yeah. One of two snipers who was there.

SPEAKER_02 1:47:08

Oh, well, my literary agent who I'm meeting tomorrow are the ones who signed it with Archwell Foundation. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:47:13

Ha.

SPEAKER_02 1:47:14

I didn't have any influence on that. I'm not I found I found out secondhand myself. Yeah, yeah. But Guez actually made me aware of it. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:47:23

I'm gonna speak to Guest now, actually. Anyway, uh, right. How can people follow what you're doing? How can people get in touch with you if you would like them if you're okay with that?

SPEAKER_02 1:47:32

Except Coke. No, I'm only joking. No, Coke, drop me as many messages as you want.

SPEAKER_00 1:47:37

People who've just listened to Coke, who's one of the patrons who submitted some awkward questions on the icebreaker for Dean, which is the episode of Folios. You should definitely go back and listen to Icebreaker. Anyway, go on.

SPEAKER_02 1:47:45

Yeah, uh, yeah. So on the social media platform, I need to try and get back on Facebook. I haven't been on there for about three years, but yeah, but Facebook. But I'm on Instagram. Yeah, I'm on Instagram and uh, you know, I have a website, deanstot.com.

SPEAKER_00 1:47:55

Yeah, are you gonna website now? I have a website, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:47:58

Needs up there, yeah. But I I have it, I have a website, but yeah, Instagram's my main sort of main handle.

SPEAKER_00 1:48:02

There you go. Matt, I'm so glad we get this done in position. And um put Lana in touch when she comes over next.

SPEAKER_02 1:48:09

Definitely.

SPEAKER_00 1:48:10

And good luck, good luck with everything, mate. And the uh what have we got? You got the you're boxing again? You're gonna box again, aren't you?

SPEAKER_02 1:48:16

Yeah, we'll we'll see if I box in July and cycling, but yeah, I'll put the video out hopefully in the next week or two from the boxing finals. You'll you'll see that, yeah.