The White Shadow Pilot Breakdown, Timberwolves Playoff Update, and Early Draft Trivia

Carlos Figueroa and co-host Joe Riley open the Forgotten Television podcast with a Minnesota Timberwolves playoff update: the Wolves beat the Nuggets 4-2 despite injuries to Anthony Edwards and Dante DiVincenzo, highlighted by Ayo Dosunmu’s 43-point game, then face San Antonio and fall behind 2-1 as Edwards returns in limited action and Victor Wembanyama has a big game. They trade trivia about the Timberwolves’ 1989 draft (Gary Leonard and Doug West) and reminisce about early Wolves games. The conversation shifts to The White Shadow pilot, praising the believable basketball, Ken Howard’s performance as Coach Ken Reeves, the show’s heart, and its significance as a majority African American-cast drama, while noting implausibilities and themes like ongoing story arcs and avoiding a “white savior” framing. They close by discussing sharing an old team photo and planning next week’s episode coverage.

00:00 Podcast Welcome
00:52 Wolves Playoff Update
01:08 Nuggets Series Breakdown
02:42 Spurs Series Check In
04:09 Timberwolves Draft Trivia
06:29 Early Wolves Memories
08:13 Transition to White Shadow
08:25 Pilot Basketball Realism
10:11 Coach Reeves Character Setup
12:22 Hayward Family Storyline
13:14 Cultural Details and Impact
14:31 Show Significance and Themes
15:11 Pilot Goes Off Rails
15:54 Winning Hayward Over
16:55 Season One Story Arcs
17:28 Unresolved Realism
18:41 No White Savior
21:15 Coaching Trust Tactics
23:59 Hayward Actor Spotlight
24:53 Rewatching Old Favorites
28:00 Photo Share And Wrap

Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:23

Hi, and welcome to the Forgotten Television Podcast. I'm Carlos Figueroa. We are continuing our breakdown of the great 70s series The White Shadow. With me is my co-host Joe Riley. How are you, Joe?

SPEAKER_01 0:39

Carlos, I'm doing very well. Thank you for this beautiful, bright but cool Saturday morning.

SPEAKER_00 0:44

Yeah, it's not bad. I'll take it. I'll take it. Even though it's May, we still have the fear of potential flurries. But I need to tell you, I've been a little bit indisposed away from my TV for reasons. What's going on with our Timberwolves? My understanding is they they did they they did away with the Nuggets, but in a very painful way. So update me on what's happening.

SPEAKER_01 1:08

So yes, we in the first series, we uh we didn't get a gentleman sweep, which is 4-1, but we uh we did win 4-2 against the Nuggets, and a lot of that occurred without Anthony Edwards, who got hurt, and then also Dante Di Vincenzo, who was out for the season. Yeah. So Anthony Edwards missed the whole remaining portion of the Denver series, which I think was three games. Okay. The Wolves rallied. Io Desumu, who was a guard at home, scored 43 points career high in his and he was pretty almost much the one of the MVPs of that particular Denver series. And it proved true that the Denver Nuggets have very poor rim protection, and all we did was go into the paint, uh sprinkled in with some three-pointers that allowed us to see I'm more of a boxing fan than a basketball fan, but that to me is use your jab fundamentals, just bone-down. So it was it was great to see them win and see other people contribute. Even 19 year veteran Mike Conley has played well.

SPEAKER_00 2:10

Is it fair to say that there's a lot of bad blood with the Nuggets? Are they like a big huge Denver Wolves rival?

SPEAKER_01 2:17

Now they're including the media's trying to pump that up, the the big rival between these two things, two teams. So it will be interesting to see when next year rolls about A, who's gonna be on the Denver Nuggets, because there's rumors they're gonna have to switch things up. Okay, and then B, who the Wolves are gonna look like, even we'll see. I think that'll tell that tale will be told how far we go in the playoffs, too, as well.

SPEAKER_00 2:42

Oh, now we're playing San Antonio, right? And we're trying 1-1? Is that correct?

SPEAKER_01 2:47

We were able to go out and win the first game in San Antonio. Okay. The aforementioned Mike Conley, 19-year veteran. So uh he's almost in our generation, Carlos. Not quite, but uh quite, but close enough. He makes one some one million dollars a year on a veteran minimum, and he was playing against their point guard who makes $37 million a year, and he outplayed them. It was just the one game that happened, so but uh we lost him two by 30 some points, 33, I believe.

SPEAKER_00 3:18

Is Edwards really healthy? Did he rush back too soon?

SPEAKER_01 3:21

He was he's he was pretty limited his get up and go, his lift, it was off, but uh after we got blown out in the second game, we played last night, and it was a close game, but we ended it, we still lost. But Edwards started this game, but he's playing played much better, though their superstar, Victor Wembanya, had a massive game, and um those guys.

SPEAKER_00 3:42

So then so then we're down two one or are we one one?

SPEAKER_01 3:44

We are down two one now. So big game tomorrow, uh Sunday, correct, tomorrow. Okay. And if we win that, it'd go two, which means now we have to win again in San Antonio if we're gonna win the series.

SPEAKER_00 3:56

But Okay. All right. You are my Wolves guy. I'm a baseball guy. Yep. We knew each other when we first met. I was a big basketball guy because I was this height when I was like 11 years old, which made basketball a much easier sport, I'll tell you that. But I want to do, since last week you got me with a little bit of trivia. Oh yeah, yeah. Okay. And I'm gonna take you back to 1989, the very first draft of the Timberwolves. Gotcha. The amateur draft, not the exhibition or what do you call the new franchise draft, but but the amateur draft. And I'm not gonna bore you with who was the first pick because everybody knows it's Boo Richardson.

SPEAKER_01 4:34

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 4:35

There were two second round picks. If you can name either one, you're successful. If you name both, then I retire from all time because I've never heard of one of them.

SPEAKER_01 4:48

Two second round picks, uh Donald Royal? No, sir. No Donald Royal. David Rivers. Nope. No.

SPEAKER_00 4:58

One was a very solid early wolf for a while.

SPEAKER_01 5:03

A solid wolf for a l for a while. I'm gonna I only remember the odd names, like the guy named Todd with only one O and one D. I guess he would only have one.

SPEAKER_00 5:13

I'm not gonna extend this so we can get on to talk about White Shadow, but the with the 34th pick in the second round, the Wolves selected Gary Leonard from Milwaukee.

SPEAKER_01 5:23

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 5:24

And with the 38th pick in the second round, the Wolves selected Doug West. So those Doug West was a consistent name in those early Wolves teams. I I think that you probably could do a comedy podcast on Wolves draft picks.

SPEAKER_01 5:40

Yeah. But I thought I'd hit you with some obscurity there. No, that's pretty good. The only little note about Doug West, he's known mostly in my mind anyway, for he blocked Michael Jordan in the game that we beat the Bulls, and we beat the Bulls. One of the reasons was because someone called in a prank call taking Michael Jordan off the court to deal with some something he thought was a family issue.

SPEAKER_00 6:07

Awful, and I and I apologize for laughing, but no one was hurt in this incident.

SPEAKER_01 6:11

Correct, no one was hurt, and then I think from that point on, this is I obviously it's pre-internet days, but I think then the someone who would uh had call in had to have a code word now to get Michael. Yeah. So but that's the one, and then that was the game that uh Doug West blocked Michael Jordan and but yeah, there you go. But yeah, that's I only remember like I just remember going to those early years and just seeing the guys there in the middle of the game.

SPEAKER_00 6:35

My first Wolves game was in the Metrodome.

SPEAKER_01 6:37

Yes, me too. Me too.

SPEAKER_00 6:39

What was it? Randy Brewer was our big star, I think.

SPEAKER_01 6:42

Randy Brewer was a star. Then we had a guy named Tony, I forget his last name was the score for us, and then we had Sidney Lowe was a guard for us.

SPEAKER_00 6:50

And then early on, I also remember because you know my dad, little guy. Yep. Five he would have said five six, but let's just go more like five five. We had really good seats. Somebody I typically don't buy expensive seats, I get them given to me, and really good seats led to the basket. And he was injured at the time, but they had a little interview area, and Luke Longling is one of the largest human beings I have ever seen in my entire life. You just do not realize what freaks of nature these human beings are.

SPEAKER_01 7:22

Yeah, and that's that's one of those things about basketball players. I remember George Bush commenting on that. He goes, I like he was at a baseball, it was an all-star game or the little league. He goes, Yeah, I like baseball. There's normal-sized people out there on the field.

SPEAKER_00 7:36

That's why uh unfortunate to what happened, but to me, my favorite player was a Jose Altuve because it reminded me of my dad. Because my dad used to say, You don't have to be seven feet tall, you don't have to be 300 pounds to be a baseball player. It comes in all shapes and sizes, and I will never forget, I think it was a sports illustrated cover of uh Aaron Judge on second base and Altuve standing next to him, and it's these two are of the same species and also very good at the same game.

SPEAKER_01 8:05

Yeah, there it is. There's a lot of less short guys uh to make their way into the game, especially shortstop second baseman typically are quick and fast.

SPEAKER_00 8:13

But no, it's let me give you a real pro broadcaster's transition. Do you know who else is not a little guy? That would be Ken Howard. That's right.

SPEAKER_01 8:22

Ken Howard, our coach, Coach Reeves.

SPEAKER_00 8:24

Coach Reeves, and I actually the first part of the pilot is we established that Ken Reeves is an NBA basketball player for the Chicago Bulls. We see fair amount of game footage, and I'm gonna say not bad for 70s recreation of basketball. I th I felt like the NBA stuff felt real.

SPEAKER_01 8:45

Yeah, I did too, and then even some of the practices to a point, yeah, the drills that they did were real too as well.

SPEAKER_00 8:55

And it wasn't quite have a full court at Harv.

SPEAKER_01 8:59

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 9:00

But it wasn't a half court, it was at least they filmed it with the right lenses to not make it some movies like Teen Wolf, you can tell they're filming it in a room. It's not a basketball court, right? Yeah. But I thought they did a fairly good job, and it those are the kind of annoying things that sometimes if you watch stuff from the 60s or 70s, it's hard to get past.

unknown 9:22

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 9:23

But I think they did a decent job at a time where it was network television. They didn't have CGI or or blue screen or anything to make it look good. So I thought that it looked good.

SPEAKER_01 9:34

Yeah, I thought that looked good. And I think too that the makeup of the players, their sizes, even though obviously it was very interracial too as well. I think they had good chemistry. Do you know? And I think that helps.

SPEAKER_00 9:47

I I like the suit on game day.

SPEAKER_01 9:49

Yep. So I just think that they did a nice job of assembling a very believable team that you could, as someone in 1978, say, they're really playing basketball to a certain point.

SPEAKER_00 9:59

No, let's here's one where someone wasn't paying attention. You would not have an injured player sitting on the bench reading a newspaper during a game. No, you would not. That would not happen, and so that was a little silly. It's a pilot, right? A pilot has to accomplish a lot of things, it has to establish who the people are and what the story is and what the tension is. So they gloss over the fact that this guy goes from NBA star or NBA pro to inner city high school basketball coach.

SPEAKER_01 10:29

That's glossed over, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 10:30

You have you have to suspend belief a little bit to be able to buy into the story.

SPEAKER_01 10:37

But yeah, and I but I think when he gets we get it when he gets out there, yeah, it's his ability as an actor to come in there and be a coach and his kind of chemistry with his players is pretty much established.

SPEAKER_00 10:51

He felt very real. Yeah. He felt, hey, listen, I gotta solve a problem. I need the guard, okay. Listen, I can't let's let him f because once again, he is not trying to solve the world's education crisis.

SPEAKER_02 11:03

Correct.

SPEAKER_00 11:04

He's trying and you can tell by his he takes Hayward's kids into his sister's life, right? I mean, he actually is a human being that cares. So you're setting that up as somebody who cares, and you're setting it up that he's in a world of he's a bit of a fish out of water.

SPEAKER_01 11:20

Yep. Naive a little bit.

SPEAKER_00 11:22

Naive a little bit about what the kinds of things that are faced, and I think uh I cannot remember the name of the vice principal, but Miss Pringle. Miss Pringle. Yes, Joan Pringle, that's right. Sybil B. Cannon. She is the perfect foil for him, and they have some great conversations. But seriously, I've been accused of becoming a softie in my old age, but the show has heart, right? Oh yeah, yeah. I mean, it it has heart, and the kids are too, right? Because the kids are dumbasses. They're probably greater dumbasses than my experience, but not a factor, not a factor of multiples greater than how big a dumbass I was.

SPEAKER_01 12:05

I get you.

SPEAKER_00 12:06

It's very believable. I get what we he first meets them in the gym, and they're like, hey, I think this guy played, and they're like, Why the hell would anybody play in the NBA be doing coaching RT?

SPEAKER_01 12:18

Exactly. Exactly.

SPEAKER_00 12:19

Which is a great way to lean into it.

SPEAKER_01 12:21

And then I think too, I think it was the first episode talks about Hayward a lot. And so the leader of the team. Yeah. And that who's the main focal point of he needs to watch his little brother and giant dog. Yeah. But it's pretty a little, then they take it a little bit to the nth degree when the uh sister degrees to watch the kid all day and the dog, and then the f the husband of the of of Coach Reeves's sister initially against it all, but it's really sad and buys him a big wheel because they're you know kind of pre- It's clear he's got a little baby fever going on.

SPEAKER_00 12:56

Yeah, that's what I mean. That's what I was gonna say. And so that's fun. I really honestly thinking back, I really didn't remember the sister or the brother-in-law character. But a fun flavor and fun to have him to have, okay, he's got something, somewhat of an anchor in LA, not a completely all on his own.

SPEAKER_01 13:14

What I was struck when I rewatched it again this morning, the pilot, is I didn't catch it the first time. So Reeves is about to leave, the little boy and the dog are at um with the sister, and he goes, Wh do you have a TV? The little boy says to the uh to Ken Reeves' sister. She says, Yes, it's in the den. And the little boy responds, What's a den?

SPEAKER_02 13:36

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 13:36

But those cultural things, right? Some of those things that I think those the writers and the and the producer of this kind of put in these little subtle things like, Well, this is the difference between what different cultures it is.

SPEAKER_00 13:50

And once again, can't gloss over the fact this is the very first television show to feature a drama to feature a majority uh African American cast. Yeah, that's a big deal. Yeah, and I'm I am still struck that so much of history is in my lifetime.

SPEAKER_02 14:12

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 14:12

You know what I mean? It's like that that is that's not just my that is in the wheelhouse of as I was growing up and for the first time. I remember being in law school and having a professor that was part of the first graduating class of women at the University of Minnesota Law School in 1976.

SPEAKER_01 14:30

Gotcha.

SPEAKER_00 14:32

Not to get on a fill bop box, but this show has some significance. This is not just kids playing basketball. It really did air some interesting, I thought some compelling television.

SPEAKER_01 14:44

Most definitely, and then I think too the uh the interplay between Reeves of that first episode and Hayward, like Reeves trying to make the trying to get his leader, because Hayward is kind of the leader of the whole particular team to get him back, seemed to be a very noble cause, though, and a little bit naive, but something that from his perspective he wanted to do because he cared about not only the kid, but he wanted his basketball team to be the best thing in the world. Now it goes, at least for my mind, it goes a little off the rails when they go when he goes into the grocery store and the guy is the boss is mean to Hayward. Yeah. And the grocery store is not something that I envision as a grocery store from the room.

SPEAKER_00 15:25

It's very it's very much a little house on the prairie type stocked store.

SPEAKER_01 15:31

So it was just something that kind of struck me when I saw that. And but it was it was compelling. And then even they're going to one of the games and Reeves is driving that old rattly bus. Yeah. So it's from that perspective, I was looking at it and like, I wonder if that's gonna happen. These kids, it was just something where the coach typically wouldn't do something like that. How do you get licensed so quickly?

SPEAKER_00 15:51

I did I did something similar to what you were talking about. I examined in my mind him making Haywood be the first one that he reaches out to. I started in my mind comparing it to Hoosiers.

SPEAKER_01 16:04

Oh, did you? Okay.

SPEAKER_00 16:05

Like, how do I come in? I'm coming into an organization, they don't know me, how do I start building rapport and respect and authority? Because that is step one for any leader. Because if your troops, if you excuse the military reference, ain't buying it, they ain't buying it. Because a lot of them are like going, I've seen a lot of like you before, and I'll see a lot like you after. Yeah. But he was good and he met Hayward on his home turf, right? He went to his house, and that I guess that's one thing I like about the Ken Reeves character. He's uh, I'm gonna go to the kid's house, see what the hook's going on. And I'm gonna ask him for B am I violating any rules and should I break that? There should be boundaries between No, he's I got a problem. We gotta get this kid to play. I need a point card. Uh I thought it was well done. I thought it was well done, and then we'll get to meet all of the characters have their own story arcs as we go through. There's Thorpe. There's a very show we're gonna have to cover involving salami. Um there are pregnancy scares and legal issues and grade issues and ego issues, and so we've got a long way to go. I think from the pilot, I think we'll maybe talk about some other significant shows that exist and kind of give uh a feel for what's happening in season one.

SPEAKER_01 17:27

Yeah, and I don't know if we talked about what Hayward was unique in a couple ways. He uh I can't remember if I mentioned that he always wore the necklace with the African-shaped pendant, which is never really explained. And what's also unique about this particular show, which I read commentary about this, but is that in the 70s the show doesn't wrap things up in a neat package, right? No, there was the end, he's left the grocery store, he doesn't have a job, so now what happens? Yep, and so this was very shocking. They said to audiences of 78. Now I don't remember being shocked, but yeah, again, I was a dumb 13-year-old kid.

SPEAKER_00 18:04

Yeah, it you can draw all kinds of analogies, but it there are elements of this show that fit into what is nowadays called prestige television, right? Not a monster of the week episode where things are always cleared up after it has a continuing storyline and continuing tensions. That's the thing is yeah, the tension of being an inner city high school basketball coach has to be pretty constant. The number of landmines that you're gonna hit, some kid's in trouble, somebody did something. Yeah, what do I gotta clean up today?

SPEAKER_01 18:41

And then I think too, the I read that they didn't want to see Ken Reeves, the coach, as this white knight that was gonna solve all their problems that he was learning along the way with them. Yes, yep. And I think they kind of even came to that not all at once, too, because in that first episode of The Pilot, you'll see he drives a cherry red Mustang. Yep. And then in subsequent episodes, he drives a station wagon. Yep. So I think they were those writers, those producers were wrestling with some of those things. This is back in 1978, which is not so much. But you know what?

SPEAKER_00 19:15

I mean, I mean, it it may be a very subtle way to reflect that his lifestyle has changed significantly in his courage, you know. Like I said, I I I I'm going to be more cognizant going forward because I did not get the impression of this being a white savior show. Yeah, that that but that is something that it is not it gets bad labels, but I'll use the general ones I learned in school, critical discourse analysis and looking at things from different perspectives. Walking a mile in someone's shoes. There's lots of ways to say it. But I want to be more cognizant of that. I don't think that. I think that he was learning the skills of being a teacher. This being really good as an athlete in a sport does not make you a great coach.

SPEAKER_01 20:04

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 20:04

There Tony Gwynne or Ted Williams cannot explain how their brain and reflexes work to mere mortals. And he's a good thing. There are some great players that are able to be great coaches, but I think it's usually the catcher, right? That's the one, the quarterback. So Reeves is learning. Yep.

SPEAKER_01 20:24

I agree.

SPEAKER_00 20:25

He's learning not only is he a fish out of water, but he's learning this new role. And it'll be interesting to see. And I, you know, I'm assuming he's not going to run a triangle offense, but let's see what he does. Let's see what kind of an in-game strategist Ken Reeves is. Yeah. I don't think I thought about it like that.

SPEAKER_01 20:45

He did a nice, yeah, I think they they're bringing that along, that trust factor, raising trust between those two things.

SPEAKER_00 20:51

That was like the end of the episode is air it is, he's oh, I'll be all over you, or I'll always be there for you, like a white shadow. So it's interesting that the nickname is given to him by the players at a moment of love. And I shouldn't say love, but you know what I mean. Yeah. In in in the afterglow of a great victory and coming together as a team and maybe having some skills.

SPEAKER_01 21:15

Yeah. The two things I think Reeves did in those episodes very smartly was he recognized Hayward as the leader of all those young men. He did. Yep. And then for Jackson, who was a little bit on the fringes, as in this particular in that particular first episode, always wore shades and the hat.

SPEAKER_00 21:32

Yep.

SPEAKER_01 21:33

And when he wanted to go into practice, Reeves didn't say take off your shades and your hat. He said, Give me one or the other.

SPEAKER_00 21:40

Yep.

SPEAKER_01 21:40

And so he takes the shades, and then in the game, as Jackson's getting into the game, as Jackson's running in, he grabs the hat off his head. I think that was like trying to meet in one sense, meet those players halfway.

SPEAKER_00 21:58

Yes, it was about the Skill transfer or the instruction, but it was more about or expand it beyond sports, great leaders I've worked for. It's more than just execution. There's something about creating the feeling of a team. Yep. That I'm sure that lots of people have written lots of best-selling books about, but that is a skill set, and we'll throw that into one of the intelligences. And I'm enjoying watching Ken Reeves figure out how to do that.

SPEAKER_01 22:26

Yeah, and for me too, Reeves is not a uh he's not what you would say, uh I don't want to say he's not a player's coach, but he's gonna make them do some things that are tough.

SPEAKER_00 22:36

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 22:37

And he's not a soft everybody okay, everyone got their participation trophy.

SPEAKER_00 22:43

Yeah. Or does everybody agree that we're gonna do this? No.

SPEAKER_01 22:46

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 22:47

This is as my said my my my father said to me with love as a child was this is a dictatorship. I am the dictator, you're the dictating.

SPEAKER_01 22:57

Indeed. And then I thought Ken Reese got a little bit of that. I just rewatching the episode this morning, he got a little philosophical about the free throw.

SPEAKER_00 23:05

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 23:05

And how it re it compares to life. And this was Jackson who's shooting a free throw. But yeah, so I think those are pretty good too as well. I'm skipping ahead of the little preview of episode to the second episode, I think there. So but it's that's great. But Hayward, I read that after high school he w he went on to college and he majored in pre-law. So his leader uh became a leader too as well. So I think that he was the key for Reeves to really get the team on board.

SPEAKER_00 23:35

Yep, he definitely was that character, obviously designed to be that way, but that was the role he took. And even by his body language, he that I can't remember the actor's name, but he has a presence.

SPEAKER_01 23:46

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 23:46

And that's good casting for that role.

SPEAKER_01 23:49

And I'm interested to see as the episodes for Grass and I watch more, is he the Reggie Jackson? Is he the straw that stirs the drink? Yeah so to speak. Yep. For the uh for this going on. And a little bit about that actor whose name is Thomas Carter, who played Hayward. Yes. He is a mere 71 years old now. Don't do that.

SPEAKER_00 24:08

Don't Joe Joe Riley, please don't do things like that to me because I I feel things creaking. 71.

SPEAKER_01 24:17

He directed Metro. Okay. And then also Coach Carter.

SPEAKER_00 24:21

So he's been a director for a lot of his career as the to confirm once and for all that Ryan Gosling is really a shitty D-back. Am I thinking of the right movie? No, maybe not. I don't know. Is that Coach Carter? No, I'm thinking of the other one. Oh okay. I'm thinking of a football movie. Never mind.

SPEAKER_01 24:41

No, there you go. But it's enjoyable watching it. Not only that I live through it, yeah, but it doesn't feel like I did. Yeah. Because that was in my kind of culture milieu at that time. Yeah. But then looking at it from my lens now about, oh wow, this wouldn't happen in 2026.

SPEAKER_00 24:58

And have you ever gone back and tried to watch a show that you once loved and are like, wow, this just does not hit anymore?

SPEAKER_01 25:06

Yes, and I actually bought all the CDs as I look to my right here for all those listening to us on the pod, is there used to be a show that came out in 1980, I think it was right after the Super Bowl called Battlestar Galactica. Oh, yeah. And I bought the CDs from the original series. There's a newer one that came out in the 90s. Yep. And it didn't quite hold up as well in a little bit of instances that I that made me want to go through and watch the whole thing, but I still have all of the CDs now that I bought of them. But some of those kind of things can be can be a little dated for.

SPEAKER_00 25:39

For me, I had the memory that this was such a great show, groundbreaking 30 something. Oh yeah. 30 something for me was literally unwatchable. And I'm someone who will never get up and leave a movie. I have to see, I can't fast forward. And I stopped. I said, I cannot handle this. I'm like, I knew that this was the me decade of the 80s, but holy crap, were people full of themselves?

SPEAKER_01 26:07

Was it we were 20 somethings then, right? Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 26:11

Yeah. They were very clearly the yupp, upwardly mobile, yeah, with all kinds of existential angst because they're so successful and have so much money they feel guilty about it. And it just once again, I actually have on my to-watch list Battlestar Galactica, the early Yes. I'm actually so I watch multiple shows at once, and one of the shows I'm watching is Babylon 5, and I have a season left of that. And I was gonna replace that with the original Battlestar, and then with the with the new Battlestar, but I may rethink that.

SPEAKER_01 26:47

I don't know if I I would think go ahead and try because maybe it was just my frame of mind at that time, and I'd give it a little bit more. I don't know if you remember the kid with the dog that they that the dog's the dog passed away. Yeah. So they made him a robot dog. And that was just a little much. It was a little much for me, but they actually had a famous actor in the first in the of that first movie cut Ray Maland was in Battlestar Galactica first episode as one of the council leaders. But no, it's I should give it another chance. I have all the CDs. I think really what I wanted to do was I couldn't quite get the chronologically thing down because I still remember distinctly an episode where Starbuck gets stranded on a planet with Cylon and they become friends.

SPEAKER_00 27:36

And I'm like, so now are we talking Dirk Benedict or are we talking Katie Sakham?

SPEAKER_01 27:43

Dirk Benedict. Okay. And I was like, all right, where did this come? I couldn't even figure it out through IMDB. I think I have been able to figure it out now, but it's just okay, this is too much work. I'll have to I'll have to sneak back. But things get busy, right? But but yeah, I'll I'll make a little more effort onto that too as well.

SPEAKER_00 28:00

But I have I have one question for you here as we finish up the pod, and I want to ask you live here in not live, but at least on record. I think I have somewhere, and I think you may be the source of it, if is a very poor quality photograph of us as a young basketball players. Correct. So I think I might throw that up there for the folks to see what young Carlos and young Joe look like. I certainly can't believe you look any worse than I did that morning. Clearly, there was no time for hairbrushing. No, I am. You okay with uh throwing that out there? I'm okay with that. All right, excellent, excellent. Throw some tra we'll show some y love to the other members of our travel and basketball team. I'd love to know what Dean Hidalo is doing these days. What's that?

SPEAKER_01 28:46

I'd love to know what Dean Hidalo is doing these days.

SPEAKER_00 28:48

I would love to too. You know what? Maybe we'll do as part of this we'll have some of our teammates on and see what they think of these shows.

SPEAKER_01 28:54

Yeah, I think that'd be great.

unknown 28:56

Good.

SPEAKER_00 28:56

Anyways, Joe, I'm having a blast doing this with you. You and I will talk during the week and maybe figure out other do we want to go with episode two or do we want to discuss two through four, or is there another episode we want to concentrate on? But we'll come back with more white shadow next week.

SPEAKER_01 29:14

All right, looking forward to it.

SPEAKER_00 29:16

All right, good talking to you, Joe.

SPEAKER_02 29:17

Yep, have a good day. All right, bye now.