Fine Wine and Gourmet Cheese

Before the podcast, before the restaurants, before anyone had a plan, there were two sisters, a lot of chaos, and a deeply questionable life lesson involving “fine wine and gourmet cheese.” 

In the first episode of Feeding the Revolution, Mal flips the mic on Jessica Waite (founder and the voice of this whole thing) to get into where it all actually started.

They talk about growing up a little wild, learning things the hard way, the failures, the grit, and the moments that lit the fire. 🔥

Because this podcast isn’t about playing it safe.
It’s about the people breaking systems, rebuilding them better, and refusing to accept “this is just how it is”—especially when it comes to food.

Welcome to Feeding the Revolution.

Full length, episode 1. 

Transcript

SPEAKER_01 0:08

Hey, this is Jessica Waite. Welcome to Feeding the Revolution. We are here to get hungry, inspired, and all fired up about the future of food.

SPEAKER_00 0:20

I'm Mallory, and this is Feeding the Revolution. I'm here with my sister Jessica. She's the voice behind this. I am super excited to interview her, but fair warning. I am 100% a novice and a little nervous, so bear with me there. But here we go. Let's start with the title. Fine wine and gourmet cheese is a nod to our growing up together. This is how she describes sex to me in an unsolicited sex talk when we were young, which I have always thought was absolutely hilarious because she was in her mid-teens, and I'm pretty sure she had only had really shitty wine and definitely knew nothing about good cheese. So that's where this stems from. We grew up a little wild. There was definitely some chaos and debauchery, a lot, a lot of love. And through it, food and nature became the thing that grounded us. This podcast is really just about sitting down with people who are actually doing the work, shaking up the broken systems, asking the better questions, and building something different. We focus on food because we're obsessed, obviously, but also because the food system touches everything and there is a lot that needs rethinking. These are real conversations. They are a little messy and inspiring, hard and hopeful. If it spurks something in you, makes you think differently, or pushes things forward even a little, that's what we're shooting for. So we're gonna go ahead and get started. I've got some questions for Jessica. So, Jessica, are you ready for me?

SPEAKER_02 1:46

I feel like this is probably the only time I'm gonna be on this side of the program. And I love it. I'm not quite sure what I'm gonna say, so watch out.

SPEAKER_00 1:54

Yeah, this could get interesting.

SPEAKER_02 1:56

I like honest, and and there's nobody I'd rather be sitting down with and having these conversations because over there, you said debauchery, but God, we have a rich history of doing fun, crazy things together and learning and growing. And I feel like that's what this is all about.

SPEAKER_00 2:09

Rock and roll. I've got questions for you. Starting off today, first, if you don't mind introducing yourself, and second, let's just dig in. Are you an activist? You know, if you consider yourself an activist, what do you think made you that way?

SPEAKER_02 2:23

I'm just I'm co-founder of The Plot, Richard Wrote It. These are restaurants, local focused, community-driven restaurants that are really trying to do the right thing for the people that support them and the communities around us. We also have a nonprofit called the Plot Garden Project. So we'll get into that. I'm also vegan, which usually terrifies people when they hear and they're looking for an excuse to get out of a conversation with me really quickly. But for me, that's been something that it's been a part of who I am for almost my entire life. And so it's kind of mellowed. You know, it's not that extremist evangelical, I'm gonna tell you kind of energy. It's more like this is who I am, and I love it. And if you love it too, that's awesome. And that's kind of informed what I consider to be my activism over the years, which is almost more of a pragmatism or a gentle approach, as opposed to I want to hit you over the head with this. So, I mean, am I an activist? Heck yeah. What? I like to rate from let's just go take over the world and change everything to okay, let's see what work we can do peacefully in our communities. I feel like along the way, you learn, you grow, you build, and we have opportunities to make changes in ways that are surprising and delightful and also hard and also awful. And so I think the activism, it's a weird term. I was uncomfortable with it for a while. Being called an advocate for something made more sense to me. But if activism is going out into the community and trying to make positive change for those around you, for the planet, for the animals, everything across the board, then hell yeah. Mel, I think you're an activist too, to be honest. Sorry to break it to you.

SPEAKER_00 4:01

I think I might be at this point starting to become an uncloseted activist. Um, I'm finding my voice and realizing it's okay to stir the pot if it's for a good reason. And watching you has helped a lot with that.

SPEAKER_02 4:14

I remember a cousin Molly telling me about the animals, and she was vegetarian. And that got me start. Yeah. Really thinking about these animals. I didn't want to hurt them, and I love them. That's very simple. But then I think as you get a little bit older and you start to understand systems and politics, and you start to understand what humans are doing to other members of this planet, looking at nature, understanding that we're a part of nature, and understanding we don't want to create a negative impact by our actions. Going camping with mom and dad, I remember he would have us clean up the campsite, right? And we had to pick everything up. And I was like, why? This isn't our trash, you know? And he's like, we're gonna leave it better than we found it. And that has really stuck with me. And I think mom and dad really kind of instilled a lot in us, and again, not in a preachy way. I had somebody ask me, like, oh, your parents were radical environmentalists, right? And I was like, I don't think that's true. I think they just did the right thing, they didn't waste things, they took care of the earth, they raised us with the best possible values, they taught us to garden. I don't think that's radical. I think that's just awesome. And I think it has instilled in me a lot of who I want to be for those around me moving forward. Capitol Hill in the 90s. I think there was a lot about being in Seattle in the 90s where I think I was touched by radical activism in ways that it probably just kind of became the fabric of who I was. But I never liked the idea of getting too radical because I feel like just like evangelical religious behavior, it's easier to shut people off when they're judging you or telling you that what you're doing is wrong. Um, and so I always just really preferred this more gentle approach to like, okay, well, I eat completely plants. I feel great all the time. I have a ridiculous amount of energy. I just hang out with my almost 70-year-old dad for the week and worked on garden projects, and he eats mostly plants, and he is like an energizer bunny. I'm watching that guy. Like, he's running circles around me. So those are the things where I'm like, we don't have to preach it from the street corner. We can lead by example. We can lead with positivity and we can do things that are like a more incremental approach. I the plot, um, our plant-based restaurant has the mono feeding the evolution because it was really important for us to be like, okay, we're not telling you you can't go out and eat a burger if you want to. We're saying when you come in here, eat some plants and really enjoy them. And we're just gonna make you an amazing meal and you're not gonna miss the meat. And that's still doing our work. That's still doing our activism.

SPEAKER_00 6:47

I feel lucky to have had all of you guys as examples, so that's super rad. On to the next question. We had a lot of fun growing up. We partied pretty hard, definitely could have been put into that hot mess category. What roles did drugs and alcohol play in your evolution as an advocate for the things you believe in? Do you feel like it had a part in it?

SPEAKER_02 7:11

It's something though, like David and I both, my husband and partner in all of our businesses, both have in common. As we are now, I'm I think 15 years into my recovery. He's 20 years into his recovery. And I've got a lot of people in our group that have been active in recovery as long as we've known them, who have joined us over the years because they see it's another example, just leading by example. Like, okay, we're not gonna use drugs and alcohol because we feel like we're healthier and happier when we don't. But it wasn't always that way for either of us. And I think addiction runs deep in our family. It is something that we're all very familiar with and have all struggled with for the most part. And I think that it was a big part of who I was growing up. You know, for example, like from the time I was pretty little, I think I knew dad made wine. I like that wine way too much. I also felt that wine at weird, weird kind of like stages of its fermentation. You insulted it, which I don't think you liked. Yeah. Anyway, but I mean, I think being in high school and having to drink to leave the house is a pretty strong indicator that there's something off. And I think a lot of that is from a very young age. I was just overwhelmed, probably around the time I realized the things that I believed in standing up for, those things, the problems that were going on in the world, all that was really overwhelming. And I wore that really heavy. And I felt like I couldn't wrap my head around how to make a difference. And I think it was just really important for me really early on to make things better, to help ease suffering, to help restore balance. And I didn't necessarily have a mission safe for Mitt Broad at that time, but I wanted to do good on this planet. But it was also like, oh my God, the more you learn, the more, you know, our systems are really, really broken in so many ways, or serving a few people to the detriment of so many. And you get to the point where you're like, what am I gonna do? So I think my answer to that for a pretty long time was drink my face off and do some other drugs too, because that at least eased that friction, that feeling of strong dissonance that came from being a human on this planet, wanting to make it better, and not knowing no how, feeling like I had no power. And so, I mean, there were other reasons. We loved to party, we had so much fun. Pretty good time. You and I always thought it was a really good idea to go off the wagon together. Yeah, we'd have that, but you know, we were doing it together. No matter what we do, dude, we do it together. We do it together. I think one thing about addiction, being in your active addiction, is like you hit the lows, right? And sometimes it's fun and pretty for like five minutes, but then you hit some really, really, really low lows. And I think one thing about hitting those lows is you realize that you maybe want something better. You want to feel the highs. It's not just like you're living this neutral life, it's more of like this drastic, dramatic backlash or swing. And I think honestly, in a way, when I started to do things for myself and for others that felt good, it was such a strong contrast through the hellscape that I'd been navigating as an addict. It was really reaffirming. When you start to feel good, you're like, oh, I can do this, I can give back, I can have this sense of peace and meaning in my life. Contrasted to what I'd been through before, like when things got rough, I feel like that actually reaffirmed the path that I was on as I started to heal and grow. And also, activism can be hard. Small business ownership can be hard, but activism is really hard and really demoralizing, and the hits keep coming. And when you've already been rock bottom, like a good portion of your life, you're like, okay, bring them. At least I'm feeling good today. At least I'm waking up today. You know, so maybe that sounds kind of dark, but in a way, it's like movement toward beauty. And I think hopefully people who have struggled can take that and be like, okay, well, there is something really light and really good on the other side when you start taking care of yourself, advocating for a better future for yourself and for those around you.

SPEAKER_00 11:06

What role would you say that your family played in your life and your advocacy?

SPEAKER_02 11:11

My heart, my soul, my everything. I love you guys so much. I love you too. Family and I mean, it is just everything, I think, from the young inspiration of seeing mom and dad. Like mom and dad struggled. We did not grow up in a privileged life. We did not always know where the money that mom and dad needed was gonna come from. And we were little, but we kind of knew. And I think knowing that they were struggling and knowing how hard they worked, watching dad work so hard outside of the home, watching mom juggle daycare and kids and doing everything they could to give us the best possible life and really succeeding, beautiful life and really supporting us. And we never wanted for anything. We always had healthy food. Part of the reason we had had that healthy food was because they grew it in the backyard. And that was having that beautiful abundance on the table and watching mom and dad navigate life with kids and values and faith. That instilled something so deep in me as far as like who I wanted to be as I moved forward and how important family is, how important community is. Even when we had very little ourselves going to St. Vincent de Paul and with the church and serving others who had less. I see David and I doing that now when we've struggled the most in business. We know it's time to double down and give more. And that has always been with us because I think of what mom and dad instilled in me and what his family instilled in him. And then also, I think getting older and having such a strong family and watching mom and dad's circumstances improve and they began to flourish lives, their hard work, and they supported us at every step along the way emotionally, and whatever we needed, they were always there for us. And so I think knowing that you have a strong family, having that rock, it makes you feel safe enough to go out and take big risks. And they've always been our biggest cheerleaders, and we've always known we can go sleep at mom and dad's house.

SPEAKER_00 13:01

Oh my gosh, I love sleeping at mom and dad's house. Their food is so ah, yes, it's so good.

SPEAKER_02 13:06

I feel like my fridge is full of condiments. Theirs is full of delicious leftovers that are neatly packed for me to rate o'clock at night when I'm hungry. So, yeah, I mean, I think the safety that mom and dad provided emotionally and physically meant that we could go out and really charge hard at life. And I think we've done that because of it. I don't think I would have taken half the risks I've taken in my career and our advocacy had it not been for the fact that mom and dad were there and we knew and they are still, you know, still there. When STG is starting to turn off our power as a business, I'm like, dad, they show up for us and they love us. I feel like family and the siblings too. Like, you guys are, I mean, building things with you has been just like the highlight of my life. Like, I get to hang out with my best friend and do business that I love, you know, and the same with David's. It's like we're building something around the people that we love most on this planet who believe the things that we believe. And there's like nothing better, even the hardest of the heart, there's still nothing better than that.

SPEAKER_00 14:05

So yeah, I agree with you a hundred percent on that one. A little bit. So, speaking of growing up in your evolution, your academic evolution was a bit all over the place. I remember there was interior design and psychology, pre-med, business school. What was the plan you had going there? I remember I had an ex who said something like, You change your mind all the time.

SPEAKER_02 14:26

He's like, You're flaky. Shut up. I like to think I'm evolving as a human. He didn't he didn't last. But I I feel like basically what happened is I got out of high school, went to college, partied way too much, wasted a whole lot of time and money. I would college wasn't sticking, and I lost confidence in myself as a learner, as somebody who could show up and do well in school. I mean, the latter part of high school. I always got good grades, but so much of high school was just spent smoking me up the hill. Explained that, yeah. Exciting, vaguely. So I feel like a lot of high school was just kind of spent. I was a certain kind of person, I labeled myself a certain kind of person. And then I get out of high school and I go to college. I did well when I was showing up for class, and the same thing though, I was partying. And so then I moved down to California with some friends, and same thing. I started taking classes, but kind of dropped out. And mom was like, You just can't do this. Like you speaking of family and showing up and kind of basically bossing me when I need to be bossed. Um, he's like, You can't just party and go to work. I was working in a bar, and she's like, You need to do something. So I was like, Okay, well, I like design. Maybe I want to be an interior designer. That sounds like relatively like low barrier to entry. So I took design classes at Palomar College and I took it seriously. After a year, I was getting really, really good grades. I was enjoying myself, and I'm like, wow, maybe I can do this, maybe I can go to school and do well. So I kind of reconsidered what I was interested in because I'd always struggled, I know I struggled with mental and emotional health. There was something strong on me to study psychology. And I think a lot of people go into psychology because they have spent a lot of time in their own journey. And so there's a strong impetus to go in and help others. So I started in psychology and then took my first neurophysiology class and just fell in love. Like loved the biology part. So added a pre-med emphasis, started doing pre-health internships, and it was really just having a blast. I loved comparative animal physiology and molecular cell biology, like everything that I was learning. I was like, oh, this sticks. I love the systems. I'm nerdy. I was dissecting niches with a nerdy and proud. I love you know, there was a lot going on where I'm like, this feels good. I think I want to go into healthcare. I think I either wanted to be a doctorate in neurophysiology or go to med school. And so I was taking all the classes and I was doing all the internship, and I interned at Palomar Hospital for actually two years as part of a program. I think the thing that struck me the most was how many people were so, so, so sick. A lot of the reasons that they were sick were diseases of Western affluence, as you would call them. I read the China study. That was something that really started to tune me into why people are so sick from the food that they're eating. And things started to shift in my head a little bit. And I realized that this is not cool. The way our food system is currently working is not working for people. There's so many things, and you start to peel off the layers as you learn, like systemic racism in our food system, who has access to what food, and really just how much poison is in our food, and how we're eating the wrong things because the wrong things are being subsidized. And there's just layers and layers and layers. So I started to kind of understand all of this, and then I'm like, God, what do I want to do with my life? This is kind of overwhelming, you know? I want to fix all of this. By this point, I was getting sober. I'd met my now husband, David. He was really helping me along my journey of just like taking care of myself and kind of seeing a better version of what life could look like. And he wanted to open a restaurant because the restaurant he was in, the partnership was dissolving, and he really wanted to do something. He'd been doing a little bit of retail food, but it wasn't a good fit for his values. He wanted to do something. So that's when we decided to open Rachin Rodent, our first restaurant together, as just this little bootstrapped pop-up. And as we learned and adventured all of the small business adventures, I realized I wanted more education. And that's when I enrolled at Pepperdine and went to business school and ended up getting an MBA. And I did general management because I'm a nerd and I wanted to take macroeconomics and I wanted to take all these different classes. Of course, he wanted to take macroeconomics because he doesn't want to have macroeconomics. So that's kind of like the long version of what I was doing in school and ended up loving. I mean, I would love to go back at some point, but I think right now I just need to focus on what we're building and give that call. I'm obsessed with organizational psychology. So that's the thing. They're probably supposed to go.

SPEAKER_00 19:05

No, no, they love you. They love you.

SPEAKER_02 19:09

Anyways, that's where that story.

SPEAKER_00 19:11

You talked about Daven and opening up your first restaurant, Ranch and Rodent. You're a pretty hardcore vegan. Is it weird that you ended up marrying a sushi chef?

SPEAKER_02 19:20

I mean, yes. I guess I'm you know, first of all, I just want to throw this out there to like anybody who's listening. Like, being vegan. It's like you almost like open yourself up to just get attacked. You know, I mean, not physically, thank God, but very verbally. Like people are very, very mean about things. And a lot of times vegans. Like, it's some people just like they hate on vegans. I mean, I feel like our brother can sometimes be one of them. I mean, he's given me my fair, I mean, lovingly so, but like a good amount, you know, he likes to tease me. It's like his favorite joke. It's like, how do you know somebody's vegan? Because they're gonna tell you like right away, basically. Ha ha ha, Steven. I mean, I kind of feel like that's not true anymore. It's like the last thing I want to tell people. But I think being vegan is, I mean, obviously it's a huge part of who I am. It's I think it's the idea that we do as little harm as we possibly can while we're on this planet. So it's to me become more of a spiritual thing, an animism, in which, and that was always there in me. I remember being in world religions class at Blanchette when I was like 16 and coming home to mom and being like, Mom, I'm Buddhist. Like just like I say in Catholic school. What is going on? I'm like a Taoist Jainist Catholic or something. Am I you know what I mean? Like you just take these evolutions and you really start to understand um who you are as a person and what your belief system is, and separating the political components from the spiritual. And I think that's important for us all to be on that journey. I think veganism for me is just part of that. Like, I want to do as little harm as I can while I'm on this planet, and I want to give back as much as I can. And I think one of the deepest, most meaningful truths that I've realized recently is just we are nature and we've been separated from nature, and we've been told a story about how we are different from nature. And I was listening to Braiding Sweetgrass again the other day, and it was talking about the indigenous origin story compared to Adam and Eve and what Eve went through. And Eve was separated from nature as opposed to embracing nature and being part of nature and drawing some and inspiration gifts from nature. I think it's really sad that that's where we are as a society. I think it's very damaging. And I think the more we can all get back into this relationship with everything that's around us, with gratitude, is gonna be huge for all of us. And it just feels so freaking healing. And so I think veganism as a part of that. And I don't think everybody who feels like that has to necessarily be vegan, I feel like that's a personal choice. But I do think looking our consumption in the eye and saying, like, what am I extracting? How am I extracting it? How are the systems that are feeding me, whether it's fast fashion? Or factory farmed food. Like, how are they extracting? And what is the downstream effect of that? Pretty awful. What we're doing inadvertently, or just because we really don't want to look it in the eye as a society to destroy all of the beauty that supports us and gives us life and breath. And so I think that being vegan turns into that after you sit with it for a while. At least it did for me. So the thing with David, I looked, I mean, I know I married him, but he's crazy. He's extremely talented. He's so much fun. Um, and he's the biggest giver I've ever met. I've never met somebody who gives more to people just because he genuinely cares. And he he'll spread himself way in just to be there for everyone else who needs it. And I think that's beautiful. I think with the way he is with food, very early on, I was very inspired. First of all, he made me the best vegan food I've ever eaten in my life. And I was like totally smitten. I mean, that's really like, you know, are you serious? Like, this food is so good. He used to pack me lunches while it was like Kelsey at San Marcos, and he would basically meal prep for me. And it was just the best food I've ever eaten in my life. And then also, though, I think just watching the way he is, he has a very deeply connected relationship with anything he sources. He was raised by Japanese sushi masters that had come from Hokkaido and had this beautiful relationship with the seafood. When you say zero waste, it sounds just like a catchphrase now. But really just honoring every single thing that you use, wasting makes zero sense from a business perspective and also from a relationship-based perspective, environmental, anything like that. Like, why would you get rid of something that took resources to produce or create or grow? And so that deep commitment, I saw that very early on with him. I saw his compassion for everything around him, and that aligned deeply with my values. Amazing vegan food plus beautiful values, it kind of works. And I think when people talk about veganism and people who are vegan want to kind of have these conversations about what's vegan, what's not, what's ethical, what's not. I think they're often, especially early on in a very black and white headspace, the gray area is what we're gonna need to lean into if we are going to make real progress and reach more people and get beyond the small portion of people if we're just okay being extreme or okay being black and white. Like I think we just need a more gentle approach. And I love that about Damon. That's what he offers.

SPEAKER_00 24:26

Speaking of progress and moving things forward, at what point did you decide that you wanted to face all of this head on? What propelled it? Does doing all of this bring a sense of peace, do you think?

SPEAKER_02 24:39

I find peace in the garden every day. I freaking love in the garden with me and talk to that cute little hummingbird who just chills while I water, and I'm like, okay, I've got some peace. But I mean, I think Rench and Rodent really gave me the opportunity to see what kind of impact you could have when you build a business that is like really focused on celebrating local community. It was like, oh, we're doing this restaurant, we're building this restaurant, it's fun. But this is from David. You know, I was like, I want him to have a place where he can be creating and feel home. And then I'll go figure out what I'm gonna do with my life. And then you start to realize you can do so much good work just in a place where you have high energy and feel good at what you do. My I definitely feel like one of my gifts or the things that I have to give is just that I genuinely have so much joy. I love people. I love to share what David's doing with because I'm fascinated all the time and excited about it. I like the weird, you know, anything he's doing to really capitulate or um create momentum around total utilization and sustainability and cooking. A lot of times it is weird. It's really strange. I would gleefully go to tables and tell them about the fish sperm soup that my husband was creating literal egg sack sausage, you know, and you're like, oh God, how but it's like okay, well, how is that, you know, in any way aligned with being vegan? But you're like, okay, well, wait, that fish was already caught. If we're using every little piece of it, then we're taking less fish from the ocean. So there is the total utilization, the respectful utilization of everything you source is hugely to me ethical. So I'm trying to remember the question now when was I all in? Along the way, we started doing all these things. We started doing farm dinners, we started creating relationships with local purveyors. I started volunteering with very good food, which I've done now for nine years, I think, which is an organization that does a lot of work with food security and local food empowerment through school gardens and panels and educational stuff. And I started hanging out with people, especially through Very Good Food, that are basically doing all the things I believe in and are inspiring. Surround yourself with the people that you want to become, right? And so being with people who are just out there changing the world, passionate, excited, like that just that energy was contagious. And so I think within a year or so, I started to realize I'm all in. This is what I want to do. I want to build restaurants, I love this, I'll be a server, whatever it takes. I'll manage the social media on the side, all the different little elements. I'll figure out how to do business and make sure we have permits, all those things, like it was worth it because we got to do what we love and we got to see the joy on people's face when we serve them something that was delicious and inspiring. And it's like having a captive audience, but you're not preaching to them, you're just kind of showing them a more exciting way.

SPEAKER_00 27:20

What were some of the biggest challenges you have faced in the journey to create positive impact through this business?

SPEAKER_02 27:26

Okay, challenges. We have like three days. We do not have three days. Okay, um, so I think I mean the small business can be chaos, especially if you're undercapitalized, if you don't know what you're doing, if those two things were very true. So I think the challenges for wrench were just like the basics, right? We didn't have any money. We started a business, we were just scrappy, we were having fun. Now I think it's really glamorous in our minds. We go back there and we hold that and cherish that because it was this time at which David and I were basically winging it, but we were having fun and it kind of blew up because it was just super gritty and authentic and fun, and the food was amazing, and the service wasn't always perfect, but I tried really hard, and I think people understood that I gave a shit. So it was good. And then really quickly, you have all these different things happening. It's like the person who we were subletting from kind of tried to pull some weird shady maneuvers, and then we ended up having to take over the entire building, and then we tried to open the concept of wet noodle because we didn't think that we could fill the entire space with ranch. And we were doing what we thought was the coolest thing for ramen. We were like these like really like 18-hour brats, local ingredients, simmering all these flavors because when we'd been in Japan, we realized that ramen was really regional and it really was a representation of local cultures. And we were excited to show off the regional version of ramen for us. And I remember we opened and then I had Yelp on my phone, and then it was like one star review, one star review, one star review, like coming through. And I'm like, what the heck is going on? Like, we did wrench, we were golden children, everybody loved it. Why is the wet noodle being received like this? And we had a lot of friends who were foodie friends who were like, this is awesome. And it wasn't there was a vegan one, there was like a duck broth, there was something else. It was just, but it was all based on the idea that we would utilize what was coming from wrench, the bones and the byproduct, to create these really beautiful broths. And I think what happened was at the time ramen was really popular down in Convoy and other places, and everybody was kind of doing the same thing. You get your noodles and your bag of broth concentrate from like one of like JFC or someone, and then one of the providers, and everything kind of tasted the same, and it had like the same kind of slami, like just really fatty flavors. And I mean, I'm speaking just from what I've been told because I hadn't had them, but I think what was happening is everybody's like, Oh, this is a real ramen. I have real ramen. I go to convoy, I know what real ramen tastes like. And so all these people who were like foodies were getting online and doing this, and so we kind of tanked. We never really wrapped our head around how to run a business game. It was just kind of produced and we ran it really lean. It was just David and I behind the scenes at this point. Now we had to have a full staff, our labor was going through the roof. All of the things that make business really, really hard, like upside-down margins, were happening to us. And so that was the beginning of when we struggled. And we would bring people on that needed a job, that were in our family, or that were in our friend circle that maybe we couldn't even afford to support at the time because we were just like, oh, they we want to bring them in, or whatever it was. Like David and I were making decisions with our heart and not our business sense. And that has been a serious challenge for us our entire career because we care and we want to give everybody everything. And then we get to a point where we have nothing left, and that's not just money, even though we've probably literally nothing left physically or spiritually, you're B. I think we kind of went through it with that, and then we learned a lot about ourselves. Had somebody approach us about doing another restaurant that was plant-based, and this is 2018, kind of right around when the vegan bubble was like really, I mean, Beyond had just had their IPO or was having a night. I think it's 2019 that the Beyond IPO happened, and it was just massive. And I talked to people who were in the funding space for like vegan CPG, and they're just like, bring me a product that will give you money right now. Like it's on, you know? And so everybody was funding vegan projects, everybody was opening vegan restaurants, and we probably should have seen that it was a bubble, but also it's my belief system. And I was like, heck yeah, it is time. We're gonna open a vegan restaurant, and it's gonna be amazing. And so we did, and there's a whole long story that leads up to it. That's could be for another day, but we got that restaurant open, and for six weeks, it was we were doing 300 covers a night. The thing was a beast, and it was beautiful. It's right down the street from wrench and gorgeous space, studying build-out, put every bit of love we had into it. And then all of a sudden, we start hearing something about this virus. And within six weeks, we went from this well-lotted, celebrated opening to me standing in an empty restaurant looking around, figuring out what the heck happened, just wondering like now we're doing takeout while I apply for PvP loans. And just a really weird, and I think after that, the plot took a long time to figure out who she needed to be. I'd gone to business school and we both had it in our heads that this was going to be a scalable model. This was something that the way to do conscious capitalism, the way to do impact is to scale. We put our eggs in that basket of consistency and efficiency, and we forgot that who we are and what our value proposition is is love and community and spirit. And the world doesn't need any more scalable restaurants. The world needs love and community and spirit. And I think that we lost that for a while. And we did start to scale, and it freaking destroyed us financially. We were exhausted, we lost so much of the love, and we started to wonder if this is actually what we actually wanted to do. And then this thing happened. We closed a couple restaurants and we decided that we were gonna fight like hell for the ones we had left, and we fought like hell for the plots, and David was in there every day for about a year, and he made that restaurant his. And the change that happened, the team he built and the way the community rallied around has been monster. It's been absolutely the most beautiful thing I've ever seen. And now we have these big, beautiful gardens. We've got two restaurants on the same block in Oceanside. We're exhausted and we're still very broke, by the way. We genuinely we're doing what we believe now. And this sense of anxiety, the sense of foreboding that I get when I know something's off. I don't have that anymore. I had that. There's so many examples of when everything just felt wrong when we were building out our Costa Mesa location, when we had a chef that was acting in a way that was like horribly abusive. And I didn't know, but I just knew in my bones something was wrong. There's examples of things like that where just deeply you feel it. And it's funny, that's the opposite of what we feel now. We feel tired, we feel spread spread thin. We're still pushing from every angle to try to save our businesses and build them into a place of strength and resilience. At least we know every single day when we wake up that we're on the right path. And we're taking the time and that energy that we have left, and we're refilling our own cup by building gardens. So when we're not in the restaurants, we're out behind them. With Mal, you and Dad and other members of our team. We've built the plot garden project. It's a 501c3. We are basically building gardens for the restaurants. We're doing educational material, but then we're also building gardens for the community. And so we've started the Tremont Community Project. So basically, behind our restaurant, we have a whole strip that we're farming out to grow veggies just for the people in our neighborhood. And we want to keep it simple. Like, here's food, come by and harvest it. You know, pick what you need for dinner. I want the little kids running around back there barefoot with picking strawberries and cherry tomatoes. Like, I want the joy that you and I had growing up eating a carrot out of the ground or picking a snap pee. I want everyone to be able to experience that. And so I feel like there's all the challenges, but also there's like from that, just like the rock bottoms of addiction and recovery, like all of the rock bottoms of the restaurant industry, it reminds you what's important. So, yeah, challenges.

SPEAKER_00 35:39

From these challenges, what would you say are your most important accomplishments? You mentioned the plot garden project, which to me is so wonderful and so huge.

SPEAKER_02 35:49

Yeah, I mean, Wrench, she's our firstborn. She's amazing. She's still just a beast of a restaurant, an incredible team, a beautiful community around. I love that restaurant. She's still doing super important work. From Wrench, we created a concept called Wait and See, which is a more high-end version of what Wrench is. I would say like a full-on tasting menu. It's a small gathering of people, 25, ticketed on Tuesday nights, where Dave takes everyone to school in a 16-course tasting menu, educating. He'll get up in front of the crowd and hold up a dry age fish and talk about it and how it's doing, and then compare and contrast dry age and fresh Nigiri on a plate and bring in food from our gardens. He hacked down a banana tree the other day after it was done producing fruit and served the hearts, a heart of the banana, to our guests. And it was weird. Some people loved it, some people, I don't think they liked it, but it was a really cool experience. And I feel like that's the kind of stuff we want to do where we're like teaching people about sustainable procurement and fishing and utilization and farming in our communities. I think the plot is insanely special. The stories that I hear from people who are being told by their physicians that they can no longer eat the way they've grown up eating because it will kill them. And they're devastated because this is their food story. Being able to come into the plot and eat meals that are delicious and satisfying, like I see the satisfaction and gratitude in their eyes when they talk to me about this. I've had so many people tell me that story or different versions of that story, and it's insanely meaningful. And talking about filling your cup, like it's our biggest why is to give people food that supports their health and tastes delicious, integrates nostalgia, pushes boundaries depending on which dish you're having, from a fried chicken and colored greens with insanely delicious cornbread or a tasting menu that David made vegan head cheese. I mean, we're calling it a tureen, but it's a vegan head cheese. And then we use bullion from the garden, which has all of these inflammatory properties. So, like, think like wherever you want to come in, we're gonna have something for you. And whether you feel like getting your mind blown or you just need a big culinary hug, we're gonna do it. And I love that about the plot too. I love the way the community is growing with us. And the garden project is insane. It's so much food being produced. This is real substantial amounts of food, like full harvest coming into the restaurant, supporting multiple crops that we're using in the restaurant consistently on the menu. And then from there, just being able to have people show up and see monarch butterflies and hummingbirds and bees all over the place, and food growing, like actual food, and seeing these tubs that they're like, I hear so many people. I could do that. You know, I could I could have one of those, and one of those big tubs will feed a family. It's crazy. The epic gardening beds, the eagle gardening beds. They're, I mean, a by four, and you can go smaller. There's patio size, and you can produce so much food. Like, that's how I got through college. That's how I didn't have freaking scurvy. Like, so I mean, anyway, I think the food justice component is real: the inspiration, the nutrition, the joy, the community, the connecting around a table, the remembering that like our lives are not a digital version on screen. We are real, we want to touch and smell and taste, and we want to connect with each other because that's where we draw our strength and that's where we draw our resilience. And so I think those are the things I'm most proud of right now.

SPEAKER_00 39:10

I'm so proud of you too. As we're sharing these things with folks, what do you hope to achieve by hosting this podcast? What do you want to share? Uh what's the story behind this?

SPEAKER_02 39:22

I just love the idea of getting people together who are doing insanely cool things, who have their minds open and are excited and have joy and having conversations that are interesting and inspiring. I feel like some of my favorite podcasts are the ones where they ruffle my feathers and I learn something. And not necessarily in that order, I don't know. I mean, I want I want people to go out and want to set the world on fire. And I want to find a way to contribute to that because I think we get numb. Yeah. I think we all get a little numb by all of the inputs. And so to have conversations with people who are really out making a difference and who are actually coming up with solutions too. And I think I've always loved the idea of think tanks, getting people together who are just really shining in their field and thinking outside of the box and getting those minds together and starting to ferment a bit of a foment, ferment. I like to ferment things, but foment. Um, a a version of a future that makes sense and is healing and is healthy and is balanced and is better than, and I'm not saying that things are all bad right now, but I'm saying that there's a lot of shit out there that is not working for us, for the people, for the masses. And we need a better version that serves us. And that's really evident in our food system. And so I feel like that's a low-hanging fruit for our passion and for our our activism.

SPEAKER_00 40:48

What do you think inspires you the most right now, or what excites you the most?

SPEAKER_02 40:53

I love the idea that you can literally take a bean, you can grow a bean plant, and then some of them will dry if you forget to pick them, and then the beans will fall on the ground and more bean plants will grow. And the beans are putting nitrogen back into the soil, and the beans are delicious, and they're an amazing source of protein. I mean, seriously, the beans are really, really good and they grow for free. You might need a little bit of water, they're pretty resilient. So we're sitting here in Southern California where water is pretty scarce, and these beans are just doing their thing, and yes, you have to water them, but it's pretty crazy to just know that you can go out there and you can grow food, and the food will grow that easily. We have now grown beans along the entire strip of alley by our gardens, and it used to be like a creeping vine, and now it's just a wall of beans. And anybody who wants to come along and pick their dinner can, and that's awesome. I think that's exciting to me. I think the way I feel when I get out in the garden, it's the one place where I just feel happy and I don't feel bored. I never want to pick up my phone. I don't want to sit there and do anything, read the news, scroll Instagram. I just want to keep touching those plants because they're so much more interesting than Instagram. Like, so I think that I think I think having conversations about food that are like one of the things that Travis said the other day, one of our chefs at the plot, like our head chef, he is an awesome inspiring human. And he was talking about how fermentation and using different techniques can really emulate flavors that people are familiar with from like animal-based foods. And he uses those in plant-based foods to create some of those same flavors and experiences. And I love that. I love the innovation piece, part of the plot garden project is a food lab component and just how can we start to innovate and create processes that really and maybe products that that really raise the bar as far as what we're eating. Because I don't, I'm not gonna sit here and say that I think going and eating a bunch of plant-based processed meat is a great idea. It works for some people, that's fine, but I would so much rather take things like lentils and wild rice, lentils, I mean lentils and anything, and and create things that are healthforward and delicious and and just so much better for you. And so I think that innovation component is something that I'm really excited about too.

SPEAKER_00 43:05

Awesome. So, with that, what's next? Do you have any new ventures or plans with the business or nonprofits that you want to share?

SPEAKER_02 43:13

I don't think we want to open any restaurants for a while. I mean, possibilities in the pipeline, but right now I think we're gonna go really slow and steady on who we are and who we want to be. I think saying yes to too many things has gotten us to a point where we're tired spreading all the things and we lost that joy that I was talking about. And I think it's really important now to make sure that anything we do not only is a fuck yeah, but truly aligns with what we're trying to do for ourselves, for our livelihood, for our family, and for the community. And so I think we're gonna be really, really picky. Um, the rebuilding process has been awesome. I'm really proud of us. I'd like to travel a little bit more and do culinary adventures, go cook other places. I'd like to have time. I want us to have time to. Do that. So probably creating more media, creating more storytelling around the things we believe in, hopefully feeding people more delicious food and celebrating all the values of the current restaurants and building them.

SPEAKER_00 44:12

So, say I'm a listener and I just tuned into this podcast. How do I follow you? Are you trying to stalk me? Yes, I'm obsessed with you. I'm actually outside your window right now. But don't even worry about it. Just keep going.

SPEAKER_02 44:25

Yeah, we have a lot of digital presence right now. We've got the ATW or all things weight website, which we're building. ATW is kind of like the future of our group, the parent company. We have websites for the restaurant, the plot, and Rich and Rodent. We have the Plot Garden Project website as well. And then we also have socials for all of those three. So at Rich and Rodent, at the Plot Restaurant, and at the Plot Garden Project. And you can just follow along. We put up some fun stuff. We also put up some weird stuff. So it's a good balance.

SPEAKER_00 44:56

Yeah, it's a really good balance. I like it.

SPEAKER_02 44:58

And then yeah, you could probably subscribe to our newsletters too, because Nal does a really, really good job with those.

SPEAKER_00 45:03

Thank you. I'm not biased at all, but yeah, they're pretty great.

SPEAKER_02 45:06

Also, like that's a good way to know about the events and stuff that we're doing too, because we're doing some really fun stuff at the restaurants.

SPEAKER_00 45:11

Yes, we've got some really fun stuff coming up, and those emails will help you be the first to know. Jessica, thank you so much for sharing all these things and your journey, the impact you guys have. So wild and wonderful and impressive. And I'm super excited to see what you and David and the team do next.

SPEAKER_02 45:29

Love you, love you, love you. Thank you to anyone who's still listening. I think this podcast is going to be a lot of fun. I'm really excited to start being the one who's asking the questions. Me too. I like behind the scenes way more. Much love to all of you, blessings, and hope to connect with you all soon.

SPEAKER_00 45:43

All right. Bye.