The (R)evolution Starts Around the Table

What if the future of food looks more like the past?

In this episode of Feeding the (R)evolution, Jessica Waite sits down with Jonathan Zaidman, Vice President of Community at The Ecology Center, to explore regenerative agriculture, healthy food systems, and the power of community. Jonathan shares his journey into environmental advocacy and explains how regenerative farming can restore our connection to the land, our food, and one another.

If you're interested in regenerative agriculture, sustainable farming, local food, organic farming, or building healthier communities, this conversation is full of inspiration and practical hope for the future.

Full length, episode 2

Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:09

Hey, this is Jessica Wade. Welcome to Feeding the Revolution. We are here to get hungry, inspired, and all fired up about the future of food. Today I have the honor of kicking off a conversation with Jonathan, who is the vice president of community at the Ecology Center in San Juan, Capistrano. I can't think of a better title for someone who is so deeply committed to serving those around him with the warmest hospitality while creating so much positive momentum in the regenerative farming and food systems space. This is so exciting. And I think one of the coolest things on the planet is sitting down with people you like and admire and learning more about them. And when it's formalized in the opportunity to ask you questions, I love it. So we've known each other for I feel like over 10 years now. And along the way, I've been watching the Ecology Center grow and flourish and your role in it. And to me, it's one of the coolest things on the planet. And I am always so surprised if someone doesn't actually know what the ecology center is. Would you mind in your own version sharing what the ecology center is and what your role is there?

SPEAKER_01 1:20

Definitely. First off, I think when someone doesn't know what the ecology center is, that's the good news. Now to open a door for hopefully something that might inspire and engage us to think a little bit about our relationship to the land. And that's what the ecology center does through the lens of a 28-acre regenerative organic certified farm. So that's the methodology that's employed is rooted in agriculture, but we also have a school and a farm stand and a restaurant and just a community gathering space. But at its core, the ecology center reflects what it might look and feel and taste like if we actually valued our nourishment and if we cared for one another as we have for all of human history, and we chose culture instead of convenience. So those are all big and lofty words. And at its core, it's really an exercise in ecological, nutritional, and cultural health.

SPEAKER_00 2:15

That is so insane. The whole reason that I wanted to start having these conversations is because there's a broken food system and a better way. And the better way is so exciting and delicious and inspiring. And yet there's just so many eyes that can still be open to what that looks like. And there's people who are coming along and doing things that are forward thinking and backward thinking. There's so much backward thinking involved in the best way, like looking to the past, drawing from tradition, looking for reverence for nature, all those things. And so having those conversations is really the most exciting things I really want to focus on, sparking that passion and that excitement for the things we all believe in. I wonder about people like us who are so passionate about this stuff. And I wonder how that came about. I realized I don't really know that much about your story before you ended up merging into the ecology center.

SPEAKER_01 3:04

Yeah, I like to think that all of our stories start well before we were born. I was fortunate, just like all of us, to come from a lineage of people that did have some sort of relationship to the land. And sometimes it's one or two generations back, and sometimes it's current. But really, regardless of what corner of the world we come from, I think there's some intergenerational context on earth-based practices. So we all have that grandma that had this special recipe or that had this preservation technique or the special seeds that they cared for. So we're all just in a long lineage of people. And I think it's only quite recently that we've begun to forget that. I have uh my my family are Eastern European immigrants to Mexico. So we have this unique cultural blend of both, obviously rich cultures, but very, very different. So my parents were born and raised in Mexico City, and they moved to the US right before I was born. So I kind of have this now three different countries and three generations history. And they raised me just like all, or not all, but many of us, to have a cultural connection to their families and our ancestors past. So the meal was an important time in our house. And just like with a lot of folks, we celebrate and we mourn and we share these cherished traditions around meals. So that was always something that was rich and deep in my household. And I, I'm not entirely certain how, but became infused in the process of community organization and volunteerism at a pretty young age. In my early teens, I started going down in San Diego where I grew up to the soup kitchen, and we would do weekend breakfast and connect with the people and just share stories and meet people. And that was something that I was really inspired by and I did for many years. I actually, this is 30 years ago, spoke at a San Diego City Council meeting about restaurants being able to donate their food before the Bill Emerson Good Samaritan Food Act was passed. Because we would try to get restaurants to donate food to the soup kitchen and they would say, No, we don't want to get sued. So I have a little bit of uh early childhood activist route, which you know grew into various different causes, not just supporting homelessness, but I was in wildlife conservation and animal welfare as a teenager in high school. I was at the Del Mar racetracks protesting horse racing, and it was me and five 60-year-old female divorcees with signs or hanging out at SeaWorld. And these are just things that I think for some reason or other, everything is rooted in a context of something that you know or heard or read, but the issues came easily to me and were something that I was involved in for a long time. Long story long here, I studied sociology, which I think allows you to go even deeper in a lot of the issues that we see in and around our communities, and pretty much have been in the nonprofit space ever since. So I worked in wildlife conservation and animal welfare, and ultimately started my own nonprofit organization doing environmental education in schools. So teaching kids about food, water, waste, and trying to do so through really dynamic, fun, hands-on experiences. From the early like 2008, 2009, 2010s, the conversation on sustainability was a little scary. Climate change was becoming a household word for the first time, and people were being bombarded by what not to do. And I think it was overwhelming them. So my organization was really focused on trying to find the positivity, focus on how to encourage people on being a part of the solution instead of blaming them for being part of the problem. So we did that work for many years, and ultimately we merged that nonprofit with the ecology center. So the ecology center had one acre kind of eco education, permaculture, garden space. And we were doing a lot of the same education, but we were doing it all the road. So we were going into the schools and classrooms, and we Evan, the founder of the Ecology Center, and I met, and we both kind of realized that we were young, fairly disruptive, unconventional, nonprofit founders, and it would be easier and more fun to do this work together than to do it apart. So that was 2015 and the last 12 years have been in partnership.

SPEAKER_00 7:35

That's incredible. I just I have that moment of just extreme gratitude for being able to hear your story and hear all of the passion and all of the good you've been out there doing. It's just, it's literally the best thing on the planet to hear about other people who care so much who are out there doing this impactful work. I love hearing about the family. I have to ask, like, do you have a favorite meal that you think about when you think about those dinners around your family table?

SPEAKER_01 7:59

The recipes themselves don't necessarily hold that much resonance for me, as much as the experience of gathering. And I'm, I think, almost 20 years vegan and longer vegetarian. So a lot of the actual meals themselves, we don't necessarily eat. Although I will say, as a teenager, when I stopped eating meat, my mom was amazing. You hear some people that their parents say, Well, good luck, you're on your own, or you're not going to eat anything now. And she, when I told her I didn't want to eat meat anymore, the day one, she's like, Okay, I'll just learn how to make everything I make. But without it, I actually had a birthday party this last weekend, and my mom made a heart of palm ceviche. I would say just the time spent together between celebrations and holidays and otherwise was what resonates with me.

SPEAKER_00 8:41

Yeah. Well, and that's something that I see so deeply with the Ecology Center, the love of community, the love of food, the simplicity of people around a table together. And in a time that feels like, honestly, in a good way, people are really starting to crave that more and more. It's like we've gone so far with technology that it almost feels like we're really ready to go back to what feels like nature and roots and community. I think the Ecology Center is a really beautiful example of what that can look like in a community. The word utopia kind of comes up to me. You know, I know we can't all be idealists, but maybe we can. What was the original intention for the ecology center and how has that really shifted and reshaped over the years?

SPEAKER_01 9:21

In a lot of ways, the Ecology Center has held its core organizational mission since the inception in 2008, which was to educate and engage people about their relationship to the land and their food and our shared culture. In 2008, it was done on one acre, mostly through field trips and workshops and movie nights, and sometimes a farm dinner or a festival, and really more so through the transformation of spaces. So demonstrating what it could look and feel and smell like if we really chose these agroecological, permacultural, values-driven spaces instead of parking lots and toxicity. That was really the calling card of the ecology center. And people were drawn to it from all different backgrounds, not just the permi or the environmentalist or the foodie. It was a beautiful space. So it spoke to people in a really interesting and dynamic way. In 2019, we had the opportunity to take over the surrounding 28 acres, which was previously operated as an organic, mostly wholesale farm operation, a monoculture of strawberries in the spring and cucumbers in the summer and brassicas in the fall and winter. That farm essentially went out of business for many reasons, which I'm happy to talk about, how our food system has changed for small producers in urban and suburban geographies. And we took over the surrounding 28 acres and shifted the model to be direct to community. So instead of selling wholesale to Costco and Whole Foods and Mothers Markets, but really it was focused on as much as possible going out our front door through a farm stand, ultimately through the cafe, which didn't exist then, through the dinners, which you've been a part of. And that itself is the difference that makes the difference, which is that the belief here is that we lack opportunities for community members to meet their producers. So when you just have a head of lettuce on a shelf at a grocery store, it makes sense that a consumer would be confused as to, well, this one says nothing, and this one says organic, and this one, if best case scenario says regenerative or whatever it might be. And even in some cases it might say local, but I think it's hard for people to really understand what these labels mean, especially in a time and age in which labels are everywhere and a little bit confusing. So the hope here was that if we can actually put the produce out the front door so that people can meet the farmer and see the farm, they would gain a deeper appreciation and value for the work itself and make the choices that actually support local, that support seasonal, that support regenerative and organic. So obviously there's a big difference between the first 10 years of being an educational space and the last six and a half of being a farm, but really at its core, it's the same thing. If it's either through a field trip or a meal in the cafe, the hope is that the ecology center exists to inspire us that there is a future worth choosing and one in which we can support our local farms, we can pay living wages to our farmers, we can make these choices. It's just a function of awareness and prioritization.

SPEAKER_00 12:33

Yeah. I always think about how I've had so many friends tell me that when they purchase something from a farmer, they're so much more committed to it. You know, they know the person who grew it and they're so much more committed to not wasting it, to using every bit of it, to honoring it, to enjoying it. Something awakens with them in them and that could their connection to that food. And so that's an incredible way to represent your mission. You touched on this, and I always wonder what the appetite is for you and I are probably like I wouldn't say hardcore activists, but we're kind of hardcore activists. We're both people who really are deeply passionate about creating change. And I don't know about you, but sometimes I have to keep myself in the level of pragmatic activism. Like, let's show up in a way that's it's more accessible for people. Otherwise, I just go off a cliff with it. But one thing I was kind of curious based on what you were saying is just what you think are the biggest challenges for the food system currently? Like in a like in a high level. I know that's really, really hard, but if you're gonna share these are the things I think are totally messed up. What are those things?

SPEAKER_01 13:35

Yeah, there are bottom-up and top-down answers to this question. You can do a PhD on this question. But I think obviously one of the big challenges that we have is just this kind of opportunity for awakening of disrupting the status quo, which is that for 75 years or so, the food ideology shifted from culture to convenience. And that was the primary focus with which we made every single decision. So, how food was grown, how it was packaged, how it was distributed, how it was prepared, and how it was eaten was really like the value system in that was what's the easiest and the cheapest way to do it. And if possible, can I have the same thing year-round no matter what? If I'm in Southern California or New York or Florida or Nebraska. So obviously, that's just not a model that works. There is no ecological, financial, cultural or community sustainability to that model. So, first step is shifting the mindset of the consumer. And when I say that, sometimes people think, well, that's impossible. Like you're never gonna get people to give up their fast food or their microwave dinners or whatever it might be. And I like to be optimistic about that question, which is to say for 99.999999% of human history, that was not the case. It's not like we're talking about inventing a new food system and like how are we gonna do it? You know, it's like no, actually, we're very familiar with what it looks like to eat locally, to eat seasonally, to eat food that was grown with integrity and authenticity. So it's just like you said earlier, it's looking backward and forward at the same time. And that's the challenge that we have in front of us, which is how do we engage people enough to make those decisions? It's an overwhelming question because we eat three times, four times five times a day.

SPEAKER_00 15:30

So times a day.

SPEAKER_01 15:32

When you tell someone like, not only do you have to shift your behavior, but you have to shift your behavior radically. That feels overwhelming. And I think to your original question here, you and I think we try to be pragmatists, which is to think we don't need to change everything tomorrow. There are steps into this world. What would it look like to choose one food that you love and cherish deeply and really just focus on that one being the staple that you're like, you know what? Every year I'm gonna just really look forward to my strawberries. And what that means is that I'm gonna buy them in season. Why? Because they're more delicious and they're more nutritious and it supports my local economy and it's better for me, whatever the answer may be. And then we build cultural value, which is to say, oh wow, once February, March starts rolling around, I get really excited that the strawberries are coming. And once June rolls around, I know, okay, great, I will wait till next year to have amazing, beautiful, delicious strawberries again. And that's actually that is the good news too, which is that we get to get excited about things versus this I can have everything at any time concept. And I think that's where it's really like a shift in mindset that is almost the hardest part. Cause when you talk about challenges, can we grow enough food? Yes. Can we distribute it? Yes. Can we pay farmers living wages? Yes. The answer to pretty much all these big institutional holders is like we actually can do it. The one thing that becomes the barrier in whether or not we will do it is whether people adopt it or not.

SPEAKER_00 17:00

I just have to digest all of that because it was so good. Just sitting over here going, yes. I know that was a big question to lob your way, especially on a Monday morning. But I'm sitting here listening to you and I'm like, God, his brain, yes, he's got this. I wonder, I'm looking at some of the initiatives through the Ecology Center, and I don't know everything you guys are doing right now. I know Travis and David are up there recently, our chefs at the plot, and they were so excited when they came back because they feel like you're launching all these new things. I wanted to know when you're talking what you just spoke about, you've been building relationships with chefs and purveyors in the community, ranchers, and a lot of really incredible chefs come to your space and cook. And I understand that that serves the purpose of drawing people into the community in a way that is probably more accessible, gets them to come in the door. How do you feel like those dinners really serve the mission? Because they're they're so cool. You're getting some amazing, amazing talents.

SPEAKER_01 17:56

Yeah, I think like you mentioned a little bit earlier, it's actually that this the function of breaking bread and sitting together and building community is almost like the most radical thing we can do. It's where we've come from. And in large parts, going back to the last question you asked about what's the biggest change we can make, when we shifted to this convenience culture, it almost became foreign to us, which is that we eat alone in front of the TV at home or even at restaurants, you see people, and both people are in front of their phone. So we're not in the practice of seeing eating as a community act, but it's where we've come from. And the good news is that there's a lot of people that are excited about reintroducing that into their lives. So you see outdoor dining spaces and pop-up dinners and long farm table events and all of these things, and they're very well attended because people are enthusiastic about it. So we've been doing that for 17 years. We started a community table, and that was just letting people sit together. And we've gotten a little bit of a nicer table and a better kit and more chefs that we partner with. But the idea is really the same as the very beginning, which is what would it look like to bring our farmer, our chef, and our community to the table, literally, and share a meal, and it can be a conversation or it can be unspoken that we understand and feel the resonance of that gathering. So, what we used to do biannually or seasonally over the last five, six years has grown into weekly and monthly. And we host now a wide variety of different dinners at the farm from community table, which you guys have done a few times, which is about a hundred people at long table, family style, festive, beautiful, high-energy gatherings. And we just launched a new dinner series right in the middle of the farm in a new venue called Hearth, which is 36 people and a little bit more intimate and more of a conversation. And we're very fortunate that because the space speaks for itself and because the community is enthusiastic, that chefs like Davin and Travis and chefs from throughout the region and sometimes throughout the country, they want to come out and they want to have a good time and they want to support the reality of the chef is that oftentimes the relationship is really lacking in their experience, relationship to their food because it's coming off the back of a truck, relationship to their community because they're cooking in a windowless kitchen. So we're doing the exact opposite, which is that, hey, the ingredients come from 50 feet away, and you're cooking on fire 10 feet away from those that are enjoying it, and it resonates and it works well. So, yeah, we've been fortunate to have dozens now, maybe even over a hundred chefs from really our favorite restaurants and throughout the bioregion come out and break bread with us, cook these beautiful dinners with amazing ingredients.

SPEAKER_00 20:52

I love it. And I can speak to the like the inspiration that our chefs draw from when they go and they cook there. It's either they go to the ecology center or they go to Mexico if they're gonna get that kind of inspiration. I love it. You know, either trip, they come back on fire, and it is so important. And even with our gardens at the restaurants, you see the chefs go out back and just spend a few minutes in nature communicating and working with the plants, and it does, it changes their entire perspective. So to be able to actually immerse like they do at the ecology center is just such an important experience for them. I wonder what you guys, and I don't, I'm not asking any for anything proprietary, but what's next? You're building out these beautiful spaces and these incredible dinners, and the community is getting more and more known. What are your plans to continue this mission and how do you plan on expanding that?

SPEAKER_01 21:39

Yeah, the hope is to really attack the problem on all sides, which is that we need to help train more farmers and more chefs to support those farmers and more community members to buy that produce. We need to grow the bioregional palette of fruits, vegetables, herbs, berries, flowers. And we're seeing amazing demand. Our focus is always going to be out our front door in our farm stand and in our cafe and at our dinners, and we make our own pantry products with the excess. But we're also now being invited to conversations to sell at Erawan and Jimbo's in San Diego. And the unfortunate reality is that it's because there's a finite supply of local regenerative produce. So there's a few really great farmers in San Diego County, but there really is a limited amount of, I mean, I think we're the only regenerative organic certified farm in Southern California. So these retailers that are growing into this new value system are asking for more ingredients. And we're saying, okay, we don't necessarily have too much to give because we're feeding our community within a 20-mile radius of our farm stand. So the evolution for us will inevitably at some point be what does this next larger farm opportunity look like? And we have the mothership in San Juan Capistrano, which is really perfectly geographically placed. We're an hour from LA, we're an hour from San Diego. There's 20 million people within that radius. So it becomes the education space, the demonstration model of the values and the practices. And now what's that next larger farm that's really more production-oriented that can help get these ingredients into more and more and more places? While, like I said, at the same time, also doing the work of mobilizing community, educating, inspiring. For me, the single greatest inspiration and example would be what Alice Waters did in Berkeley 55 years ago with Shea Panisse. So a young person opened a restaurant after having traveled to France and really being inspired by the fact that the locals and the chefs just walk down the street to the market and choose their fresh-made bread or their fresh-picked mushrooms or fresh-grown strawberries as part of their menu planning for the day. And she opened a restaurant in Berkeley, which has become, in my opinion, the most important restaurant in the country. And because of that, in 50 years, the food culture in Northern California has really shifted, where you have all these really active farmers markets and a lot of really active farms, and the restaurants and the farms are in partnership. And there's this kind of general awareness that's not perfect, but certainly healthy and thriving. And the hope would be what role can we play in Southern California to help spark that movement? I don't think we're totally there yet, where restaurants and community members and farmers are all in deep relationship to one another, and everyone is choosing to do the best that they possibly can. So, what role can the Ecology Center have in getting the consumer to choose local, getting the chef to do the extra work because it is more work, as you know very well, to your menu because we're out of season or because the local farm didn't have X amount of whatever you asked for. It's not the same as getting a delivery out the back of a truck. So that's the hope here, which is how do we grow more ingredients? How do we engage more people? And how do we shift this culture? And that's a big ambitious goal. And the good news is we're we're in it for the long run to try to figure out what our role could be in that.

SPEAKER_00 25:17

Yeah, that's so rad. Yeah. I think business, you know, teaches us one thing. I got out of business school and I thought we had to scale physically in order to create great impact. And I put myself through the ringer for six years trying to scale restaurants and realized that it was also completely spreading us way too thin to hold on to the joy that got us started in the first place. So lately we've been thinking more about how do we create and radiate impact from a smaller, from a from one space, if that makes sense. And it makes me think of this time I was in Suffolk and we were cooking a supper club. And so we're in England, and the conversations around the table were so much like the one you and I are having now, and so much like the ones that are had at the Ecology Center and in Oceanside. And it just made me realize we don't need one big top-down change. It's this mycelial network of all of these organizations and groups and passionate individuals who are coming together and catalyzing change in their own way and radiating that outward and the ripple effect. And I see the ecology center. I have no doubt that you all can will continue to grow and to scale in your own way, but also the way that you're radiating out into the community from your interactions with the chefs and what you do on social and the storytelling you do through your marketing, all the things that you do are making change in other places already. And that's it's really cool. It's really beautiful to know that two passionate and grassroots individuals like you and Evan were able to team up and create this kind of impact.

SPEAKER_01 26:44

Well, to that point, Jess, for me, I believe firmly as a recovering anarchist and an activist and a person in my 20s that was just really mad at just about everything. That in fact there is no one solution to any problem whatsoever, and that centralizing solutions is most often going to cause harm through some sort of externalization. So, no, the ecology center has no ambition to be like, yeah, what if we had a hundred farms? Where our focus is on decentralization. And that means that we need a diversity of farms and farmers and restaurants and chefs and community members and spaces that speak to them that are culturally appropriate or economically appropriate or whatever it might be to those populations. I think of as we sit here at the end of the month in June, and we're coming up on Independence Day, which is obviously a big part of the American ethos. That mentality and philosophy is not interesting at all to me. Independence is not a feature, it's a bug. You know, interdependence is actually what matters. It's how do we support and help one another? So for us at the Ecology Center, it is kind of a yes and philosophy here, which is that, yeah, we're we're gonna do the best we can. And also we need a lot of partners to help carry this load.

SPEAKER_00 27:58

You touched on something. I just kind of keep going back to similarities. I feel like there's similarities between how you and I grew up. And then also we have something interesting in common. Not only are we vegan, but we work in spaces that are not vegan spaces. They are incredibly intentional and committed to sustainability and to ethics. However, I don't know about you, but once in a while I feel, I don't want to say attacked, but yes, sometimes in a vegan community, you can be kind of a tacky. What has that brought with you? The fact that you are vegan, you've been, you have been for a very long time. You were very ethical and active growing up. Being in a space that celebrates local and sustainable meats as well as vegetables, has that been a challenge or has that been more of a superpower for you?

SPEAKER_01 28:43

I think both. I understand exactly how and why vegan individuals and the animal rights and animal welfare community feel how they feel about any single animal ever being taken or ever being used against their will. I get it. I feel it, I understand it. And also I live with the pragmatism to understand that there are some things that are much worse than others. But for me, I the age-old idiom of not letting perfect be the enemy of good. So I remember, and this must have been 10, 15 years ago, maybe more. There was a local farm here in San Diego, one of the first kind of organic rude sea farms that was gaining some traction and doing some really good partnerships with restaurants and community activations. And they hosted a whole animal harvest class and feast and various different breakout elements of workshops. I think it was a hug, and they were doing various different things. And the vegan community really rallied around this space and protested and even got them to cancel their event. And I was really thinking to myself, again, I understand. I I'm I never want to kill any animals, and I certainly don't want to eat them, and I'm not going to. But that being said, from an impact standpoint, attacking the local business that is doing as much as possible to use a whole animal and source it locally and do so with respect and integrity versus going to Arby's where they use garbage animals all day, every day by the thousands, tens of thousands or millions, pick your battles. So to me, I've really been focused on doing the very best that I can, living within my personal values and my homestead and understanding that there are some people that are going to choose the animal protein. And I think that's okay if they're going to honor it and respect it in the way in which it should. We don't live in a perfect world in which no harm is going to happen ever. So for me, when we bring in local caught seafood or locally raised land animals to the farm, the question that I ask myself, is this a part of the problem or a part of the solution? You know, is this being done the way in which, if we were to do more often, we would actually create positive change. And what I keep coming back to when I ask that question is whether or not you choose to eat animal protein, the one thing we can and should all agree on is that the world cannot survive on the amount of animal protein that we're consuming in 2026. It's just not possible. So if we were actually to look back at any culture in any corner of this planet, you would notice that throughout human history, we ate a lot less animals than we do today. And if it was to be a feature or a focus on a special celebration, the once-a-week thing, the seasonal thing, then I think we wouldn't have a lot of the same environmental or ethical issues that we do today. So my point when I say that and what we do here at the farm is like when we have animals, it's like it's part of the meal. It's not the meal. It's one of the elements that compose a beautiful meal. So I don't know if that resonates here with you.

SPEAKER_00 31:56

Oh God, yeah. No, it's it was really beautiful because I realized that this morning prior to speaking with you. And then when you brought up veganism, I'm like, gosh, I'm like, we do really have that in common. And it is something that I actually value deeply because I don't get to be humble on my path because there are still gray areas in how I do my activism. It has made my interactions and my relationship with some of my restaurants complicated along the way. I just realized that no matter what we do, I want to provide a better version of every step along the way, if that makes sense. For you, you have the opportunity to bring people to a table and show them a better version. So I think that it's a really beautiful and gentle form of doing our activism. Thank you for sharing that because I was genuinely curious. I'm like, hmm, like, I mean, this is a real challenge. And I think pragmatic activism, it sounds very sterile. It's the way I think about it. Let's not be the ones that produce a message and a pill no one wants to swallow. Let's bring it to them in a way that feels delicious or exciting, just like your strawberries you were talking about.

SPEAKER_01 33:02

Sorry, just keep harping on this point. Let's meet people where they are. Which is I again I spent my teens and my twenties and really most of my 30s kind of yelling at people. Yeah. Yeah. So now I think of all right, how do we meet people where they are? How do we give them opportunities that feel accessible to them? How do we create an entry point that they can say yes to more often than no? Because otherwise, it's just an exercise in yelling at one another. So the hope here is really trying to bring inquiry to the conversation. So let's discuss this. Let's talk about in this particular case, animal sourcing and how and why. And I think in nowhere is that a better opportunity because at its core, the ecology center is an educational space. And we have a school at our farm and we host field trips and summer camps and after-school programming. But I think in schools, that's actually probably one of the best places to have that conversation, which is what are you eating? And does it align to your values and what matters to you? Our farm school is vegetarian, so it doesn't really come up, but it is something that I think you see in Waldorf schools every once in a while, where they're more like a farm school or nature-based school, where part of the curriculum is like, okay, we're going once we reach a certain age, we're going to go to the farm and we're all going to harvest a chicken. And it's something that you actually hold a lot of reverence for and is really deeply moving and emotional. And if you choose, I don't want to eat this animal because I don't like how that is done, then that's your choice. And if you choose I do want to eat this animal, then you should do so with your eyes open.

SPEAKER_00 34:38

Absolutely. And be able to look the process in the eye. And I think that's the farm event you were talking about. I feel like that was a big component of it, was just really bringing people to a point where they could actually look what they were eating in the eye. And across the board, that that is not just animals, that's plants too, how plants are produced, how the labor is treated, how all the elements that go into creating the food that we buy with so much convenience at this point. Can we look that in the eye? And can we sleep at night? Can we feel okay about the fact that we're choosing to support those methods of farming and production? And so I just think that the gentle approach makes so much sense in so many ways. And I just I love hearing you talk about this because it is, it's just it's an evolution of thought, but it's also a natural, it's a place where people can feel whole again once they are there, once they're, once they get back there. And I was listening to Dominic Kren talk about food. She was on a panel down in Baja a couple weeks ago. And one thing she said that I really, really loved is just how humans have been separated from nature and how we need to be back to nature. We are nature. And she tries to do that with her food and how she creates food for people and grows food for people too. And so I just think there's a whole lot of people who are waking up to the idea of chefs and farmers and activists, that we are nature. The food that we eat is we need to be in community with it. We need to respect it, we need to be grateful for it, all of those things. And once we realize that, we feel so damn good. And that's what I want for everyone else too. And that's like this awakening that's starting to happen. I'm really hopeful that people have this experience, not just for the sake of the soil, not just for the sake of the laborers or for the sake of the animals, but also for the individuals who get to have that experience. It's what we're here for.

SPEAKER_01 36:23

Everyone has that experience, or that neighbor or that parent that grew a tomato for their first time and was like, I grew the best tomato of all time. They're so proud of it. And of course it was the best tomato of all time. Why? Because it was picked right there and you ate it right then. Didn't travel 1,500 miles in plastic. So if that's what it takes to be like, this is the best strawberry, tomato, cucumber, whatever I've ever had, then let that be it. That's enough.

SPEAKER_00 36:48

Well, this has been really, really awesome. I love your brain. I love hearing what you have to say. I'm so grateful that you exist on this planet right now. And I am excited to share your vision and your passion with our community. I is there anything else that you feel like you really want to get into this conversation at this point?

SPEAKER_01 37:08

I mean, Jess, there's so much more. We know. I'm just grateful to you, to the work that you and Davin do. We've been fans for many, many, many years, both at Wrench and the plot and just of you two as humans. So I would just say I am grateful for not just you and Davin, but for all of those who support both your work and our work, because at the end of the day, that's the chef, the eater, and the farmer. That's like that's a pretty powerful combination. Those three units can alone make change.

SPEAKER_00 37:38

Yeah, I know. And we are together, we are. So if I'm assuming everyone who hears this is gonna want to follow along with your journey and with the ecology center and come visit, what are the best ways for someone to follow the ecology center?

SPEAKER_01 37:52

Yeah, well, come is I would recommend. I live in Oceanside, just like you, as does Evan, my partner and colleague in the work. So I think sometimes when you tell people from San Diego County to go to Orange County, they look at you like you're crazy. But it's 40 minutes north of our house. Come and visit the farm. Obviously, hop on the website, theecologycenter.org. Most of what we do, we put on socials, mostly Instagram, which is at the ecology center. But I, you know, for me, it's it's letting people find whatever speaks to them. So if it's visiting the farmer's market, if it's growing their own tomato, if it's dinner up at the farm, if it's a dinner at the plot or wrench and rodin or whatever it might be. Like just I think it's a question of intentionality, inviting us all to the understanding of belief that we can make decisions that matter.

SPEAKER_00 38:41

Yes. And hopefully there'll be follow up conversations because I'm sure there are many, many layers to peel off these topics. So thank you so much for your time today. I'm super, super grateful. And you know, I'll be up there soon.