The Truth About Healing Podcast

Episode 6: Leadership, Resilience & the Power of Self-Reflection with Dan Singer (Part 2)

• Dana Carretta-Stein • Season 1 • Episode 6

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In Part 2 of Dana's conversation with EOS Implementer, leadership coach, Marine Corps instructor, and friend Dan Singer, the discussion moves beyond business and into something even deeper:

How adversity shapes us.

Through honest stories about leadership, divorce, parenting, purpose, vulnerability, and personal growth, Dan shares how some of the most difficult moments of his life became the catalyst for profound transformation.

Together, Dana and Dan explore why growth often begins when life doesn't go according to plan, how self-awareness develops through discomfort, and why the people who help us heal aren't always the ones who tell us what we want to hear.

This conversation is a powerful reminder that healing, leadership, and personal development all require the same thing:

The willingness to look honestly at yourself and keep moving forward anyway.

In This Episode, We Discuss:

✔️ How Dan discovered EOS and built his coaching practice

✔️ The connection between leadership and personal healing

✔️ Why purpose matters during difficult seasons of life

✔️ How adversity can become a catalyst for growth

✔️ The role of accountability in personal transformation

✔️ Why vulnerability is essential for growth

✔️ The difference between confidence and complacency

✔️ Why emotions belong in leadership and business

✔️ Parenting lessons that apply directly to leadership

✔️ The importance of allowing people to experience discomfort

✔️ How support systems help us navigate life's hardest moments

✔️ Why the people who challenge us often help us grow the most

One of the biggest truths from this conversation:

The goal isn't to avoid adversity. The goal is to learn how to grow through it.

Because some of life's most valuable lessons are hidden inside the experiences we never wanted to have in the first place.

And sometimes the very thing that breaks us open is the thing that helps us become who we're meant to be.


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https://open.spotify.com/show/5EQZnLILHmRZUIwoJr3JKE

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Learn More About Our Guest: DAN SINGER

📍 Instagram: @dan_singer_eos

📍 LinkedIn: Dan Singer

📍 Website: https://implementer.eosworldwide.com/dan-singer/


Additional Resources

🧠 EMDR Resources for Clinicians & Clients
www.danacarretta.com/shop

🛠️ Recommended Therapy Tools, Regulation Resources & EMDR Systems for Clinicians
www.danacarretta.com/therapytools

🎁 Free Nervous System Resources
www.danacarretta.com/free


Work With Peaceful Living Mental Health Counseling

Whether you're struggling with anxiety, trauma, burnout, relationship challenges, or feeling stuck in survival mode, our team is here to help.

📍 In-Person Therapy: Scarsdale, NY

💻 Virtual Therapy: Available for residents of NY, NJ, CT, FL & CO

📅 Learn more or schedule a consultation:
www.peacefullivingmhc.com


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Because healing gets easier when we stop doing it alone. 💛


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SPEAKER_04

Welcome to another episode of The Truth About Healing, a podcast that's here to challenge everything you think you knew about therapy. I'm Dana Koretistein, EMDR and neuroinformed therapist. And I'm on a mission to help 10 million people change their patterns, relationships, and future generations by teaching them how to gain control of their nervous system. Let's go with it. Welcome back, everybody, to another episode of The Truth About Healing. I'm sitting here with my friend, my coach, Dan Singer. This is part two of our episode. So, Dan, let's just keep the convo going because it's so good.

SPEAKER_02

Hell yeah.

SPEAKER_04

Tell me a little bit, because I don't know if I actually know this. How did you like find EOS and get into it and all that?

SPEAKER_00

Yeah. Um, so most of my career was in manufacturing. Um, worked at the time.

SPEAKER_04

Is that where the marker story comes from? The marker story. Yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00

I mean, it's an easy one in the session, too. Um, but yeah, sales, business development, leadership roles. Um worked for a family-owned business that desperately could have used the EOS. I didn't know of it at the time. Um, so I was there for about three years and then worked for a company up in Connecticut that actually ran on EOS. Um, so Mike Payton, who was one of the original guys that started EOS with Geno Wickman, was our implementer. Oh, that's right. Right. So I was fortunate enough to have a very high-level exposure and introduction to it. And when I got to that company, um, you know, I'm an infantry marine. So they wanted me to be a part of the leadership team. We had some pretty aggressive goals for the business. Um, so joined the leadership team. Uh, I fell in love with it right away. Um, because really what EOS is, is a decentralization tool, right? Creating that commander's intent with the vision, um, your accountability chart, all the clarity that goes around that, delegating and elevating is pushing decision making all through the business, right? So US is not a thing that you do, it's how you run the business. And once it's fully rolled out, that's what we're doing.

SPEAKER_02

Right.

SPEAKER_00

Um, in the Marine Corps, the way we plan operations is the same way. We have the Marine Corps planning process, which is a framework, and within that framework are tools that are used to develop a plan. Um, so it's it's just like EOS, right? You have a commander's intent that's given to the planning team, which is basically the leadership team.

SPEAKER_02

Right.

SPEAKER_00

Um, the major war fighting functions that sit around the table for you guys, that's like sales, marketing, ops, finance. Right. Um, commander's intent is given, which is basically what's the mission? What is the end state that we want to accomplish? What do we know about the enemy? What resources do we have? That team then fully develops the plan. They'll brief the commander back. He either says I like it, I don't like it, make some tweaks, whatever.

SPEAKER_02

Right.

SPEAKER_00

And then they go and execute it. So when I saw US, I'm like, holy shit, this is that's the more business.

SPEAKER_04

I've been doing this. Yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00

Um, so I fell in love. So we, you know, I was there for five years. We grew from 14 to 20 million, got bought by private equity. I was with the new ownership for about a year and then I left um and started working for a couple of larger businesses. Why'd you leave? Um, it was part of the roll-up, right? They did 16 acquisitions in 18 months. Um, and so along with that is just a ton of layoffs, right? So a lot of the sales guys, there was redundancy in operations. Um, so they laid a bunch of people off, which I was fine with because I I did not want to be there. Like I liked working with smaller companies.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00

Um, so kind of you know, worked for a couple of different businesses, and then I had an opportunity to work for a global contract manufacturer. It was kind of on the you know fence about wanting to do it, but it was kind of that area that I hadn't been yet in my career. So I was like, you know what? Let me take a chance. Billion dollars in revenue. I was dealing with an $80 million client, and six months in, I'm like, this ain't it. Like, and it wasn't them, it was me. Right. Right. I was on a Zoom call one day learning how to do pivot tables, and I'm like, I'm gonna fucking it's some nerd shit.

SPEAKER_04

I'm like, I don't know that one.

SPEAKER_00

Like it's Microsoft Excel, and I'm like, this is not it. Like I'm dying here. I hate Microsoft.

SPEAKER_04

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00

I'm like, I need like fast paced, make a fucking decision, execute it. If it doesn't work, we'll adjust. Right. You know what I mean?

SPEAKER_04

But let's do something.

SPEAKER_00

And but this is where like the self-awareness comes in, right? Because I was like, this is not me finger pointing at the business. Like they're doing what they're supposed to, right? I put myself in the wrong place for who I am.

SPEAKER_02

Right.

SPEAKER_00

Um, and so I kind of did some reflecting of like, where do I want to be? And I was like, I want to own my own business, right? I want to do my own thing. So I actually called Mike Payton up and I was like, hey, Mike, like I want to be an implementer, right? Um I love EOS, I've brought the tools to every business that I've worked at. I'm now in this teacher, coach, facilitator role in the Marine Corps for planning teams, and I love it. Like it just everything lines up to the city.

SPEAKER_04

Feel like you're like your natural talent.

SPEAKER_00

So he walked me through what the process was. Um, you know, took a little while to think about it, made a decision. 2023 is when I started the business. Okay. And I haven't looked back. Wow. It is the best fucking thing I've ever done.

SPEAKER_04

And like in those what we're in 2026 now, yeah, those three years, what have you noticed for yourself by listening to yourself?

SPEAKER_00

So much. Um, you know, I told you on the last episode that a lot of times I'm in a session, right? Helping a client create awareness around something.

SPEAKER_02

Right.

SPEAKER_00

And I have the realization in the session that like this isn't for them, this is for me too. Right. And not just about the business, but like personal life.

SPEAKER_04

Right. The bigger picture of things.

SPEAKER_00

Um, I would say probably the biggest thing that had an impact on me is the work that we do with Core Focus. So clients that are able to really nail their purpose, cause, their passion, the true why behind their business. Um, because I say all the time, like on paper, owning a business is the dumbest fucking thing in the world to do.

SPEAKER_04

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00

On paper, it's really dumb because it's waking up two in the morning, like cold sweat about how you're gonna make payroll. Like, yep, why do that? Right. You know what I mean? Like you can go get a safe job somewhere else with some security, be a teacher, union, whatever.

SPEAKER_04

Right. It's a lot of pressure.

SPEAKER_00

It's a lot.

SPEAKER_04

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00

Right? No one, no one sees that. So I'm like, there's something within you that allows you to stay engaged and go through those really difficult times. And like, we need to figure out what that is so you can come back to it and remember, like, this is why I'm doing this. This is the impact that it's gonna have on the world. Um, and so I started reflecting on that, and you know, I went through, you know, a pretty difficult time last year with separating from my wife and you know, really unexpected. Not a religious person, like I was raised religious, and it just doesn't compute in my head. But I'm like, I need something in my life that's kind of like a purpose cause of passion. Like, what's my why behind all this? Right. Like, I've I've been through hard things before, lost my dad at you know, a young age, 23 to an overdose, dealt with addiction with my sister. And I realized I've gone through it, right? Yeah, and and I've been fortunate enough to have like the mentality of this isn't life coming for me. Like life comes for everybody.

SPEAKER_04

Exactly. Right?

SPEAKER_00

We're all gonna get, I say everyone's gotta eat shit sandwiches. Yes, right? Some of us are gonna eat more than others, but like, and when you finish one, you're like, there's another one coming. Yep, right. So, so how can I contextualize the bigger picture, right, that makes that stuff worth it and and digestible and understandable. And uh, so I took that outside the session room and I wound up finding Simon Senex book, Find Your Why.

SPEAKER_02

Yep.

SPEAKER_00

And really went through that. And I'm like, if I can have this sort of guiding light as a purpose statement, right, right, that'll articulate that for me, like it'll be huge. I saw the impact it's having with clients in their business.

SPEAKER_02

Right.

SPEAKER_00

Um, and I did that, and really what I came up with is like my purpose is to lead people to realize their full potential by appreciating adversity and embracing it.

SPEAKER_04

You know? Yep, yep. Um which I've said to you a million times, you are one. Yeah, just you don't have that the credential.

SPEAKER_00

Exactly.

SPEAKER_04

But you are absolutely quite a good one.

SPEAKER_00

Well, I appreciate that. Um but yeah, it's it's being able to look at that stuff and say, okay, um that adversity that shows up. I said this to you the last episode. Those are where some of the most powerful lessons have been in my life. So you when you do that a couple of times, yeah, just like with my clients, you embrace it. Right you're like, all right, here it is. Like the the hard shit's here, right? Right. And it fucking sucks and it hurts. But in here somewhere is gonna be something that's fucking gold.

SPEAKER_04

Yep.

SPEAKER_00

That if I can hold on to that and apply that, a lesson, right? It's gonna level up.

SPEAKER_04

Right.

SPEAKER_00

You know what I mean? And the other piece of that for me too is like, I don't want to just hold that for myself, right? I want to be able to leverage those things that I've been through and the experiences that I've had and give that to the world and the people that I care about to be like, hey, look, I've been in this stuff, right? And like here's how I got through it, and I see in you more than you do, right? And I will absolutely be your biggest advocate and supporter and like push you out of that and help you to realize what you can't see in yourself right now. Right. Right. And we'll embrace this adversity together. And it's like to me, that's what gives me the fulfillment and satisfaction in life and that purpose is knowing that those things are always gonna happen. Right. Right. And then to be able to have an impact on someone where they can then start to appreciate it, right? And set them up to have a better, more fulfilling life. Yeah. Like that's where it drives me.

SPEAKER_04

You're that support system. And so, you know, everyone's kind of heard me say this a million times. It's not just what happens to us, but who was there for us that really dictates our resiliency and how much um we're able to work through something.

SPEAKER_03

Yep.

SPEAKER_04

So you've you are that person in a lot of people's lives. So you've also mentioned that you've gone through shit in your life.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04

So who was that person for you?

SPEAKER_00

So I've got a few of them. Um, you know, I've got some really close friends. Um, you know, my one friend Pete, who you know, I met in 2014. Um he was in the Marine Corps, like we obviously hit it off really well, but just very like similar mindset, right? And it's it's nothing over the top, it's just somebody who like that space is always there. Exactly. You know, um, I saw a meme the other day, it was so funny. It was like, you know, people tell me, oh, you handled that so well, and it's like, no, the fuck I didn't. My friend heard me just so much about it every day for three months until I got over it. You know, it's like yeah, that's one of those guys for me where it's like, yo, like I'm here, right? Right.

SPEAKER_04

You don't have to have it all figured out before you talk to them.

SPEAKER_00

The other group um is the guys that are in my level 10, right? So people are always surprised I run my EOS practice on EOS. Yeah, I'm I'm in a level 10 every week.

SPEAKER_04

Good, because I mean those who do, like you have to teach it, you have to practice it. Exactly.

SPEAKER_00

Um so my level 10 is a group of six other veterans. Um we're all got military guys, yep, spread throughout the country. Um, those guys, so last year, you know, I found out about this affair on a Monday, and on Wednesday was on a plane to Texas.

SPEAKER_01

Wow.

SPEAKER_00

And I was with those guys, you know, for three days. Yeah. Wow. And one of them in particular, this guy, Rodney, who I'm actually gonna introduce you to.

SPEAKER_02

Okay.

SPEAKER_00

Um, he's he's got a book coming out called Perfect Aim, which you will love and I've gotten invested in the title already because that's like, yep, phenomenal.

SPEAKER_04

I need that.

SPEAKER_00

Um so you know, as we were talking about this, he he was one of the people that really like held a mirror up. And he's like, hey, like this thing that happened is not your fault. But before there was an environment that was created that allowed this to happen.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00

And there's two of you in that. Right. And you need, before you even address this other thing, to go take accountability and do self-reflection and figure out what the fuck you need to fix and address and deal with. Right.

SPEAKER_04

You say it takes two people to make a marriage work, right? Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00

And he was a hundred percent right. And now so I put the other stuff aside and I'm like, all right, this is time for me. Yeah, right, my self-reflection. Like, how did I not show up? What should I have done differently? Because on the surface, it looked like I was doing everything right, right? Picking up more slack, like doing more things around the house, like taking on more and more. Right. Well, what I did was create an environment that allowed detachment, right? And no investment. And that's again, like that was my fault. Right. That I fully own, you know, and will learn from.

SPEAKER_04

You did like the guy thing, right? Like, fix it. Let me just let me just do this, let me fix this, let me fix it, and and everything will be okay.

SPEAKER_00

100%.

SPEAKER_04

Yep.

SPEAKER_00

Right. And uh like the level of appreciation that I have for him calling that out is so high because almost everyone else around me, where it all comes from a place of love, is like, no, no, you're a victim, basically. Like this is a horrible thing, and you didn't deserve any of this, and it shouldn't have, right?

SPEAKER_04

And it's like feel so like powerless when you hear that. Yeah, isn't it?

SPEAKER_00

I don't know. Like there was something there, and I needed like to be someone, someone call me out.

SPEAKER_04

Someone, yeah.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, yeah. So you crave that. It's that combination, right? It's the ones that'll just hold space and be there for you and listen. It's the ones that'll give you the advice, and then it's the ones that are gonna tell you the shit that you need to hear that you may not necessarily like.

SPEAKER_02

Right.

SPEAKER_00

Um, and those are the ones like he did for me what I try to do for my clients. Right. It's create that awareness, push me into discomfort, right, and force me to recognize like where I need to focus. Right. Which was huge.

SPEAKER_04

That is huge. So you've literally seen like in your life how like these things that we talk about with the OS and in therapy, how it applies in your life.

SPEAKER_00

A hundred percent. In those where the passion comes. That's why like I start yelling at you guys and then I'm like, this fucking works. Yes, yeah. Just just do it.

SPEAKER_04

And I say all the time, I love when you yell at me. Like I've I've had beg everyone to yell at me because I also know I'm a fucking bull and I won't listen unless yelled at. It's just I'm a sick bastard.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah, yeah. Yep.

SPEAKER_04

Yeah, yeah. But it's so powerful when we can be open to that um that feedback. And I think what keeps a lot of people um wanting to avoid that is shame.

SPEAKER_00

Okay.

SPEAKER_04

Right? Like we all we don't want to feel the shame associated with hearing what we need to hear.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04

Right. And what a lot of people I think don't realize is that shame is actually really healthy.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04

When we embrace it, it's a protective emotion. Then when we embrace that feeling of shame, it stops us from doing stuff again.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04

If it's like hurting people that we love or some something like that, because there are some things that are our fault, right? Like we're always like, oh, you know, uh, no, that wasn't your fault. Oh, it's okay. Instead of like, yeah, own it.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04

And then feel the ick associated with that, that icky whatever feeling, own it. Feel the discomfort, and you won't do it again.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah. It's true. I mean, that's one of the things that when I meet with new clients or a potential client, I'm like, listen, like three things that are non-negotiable. Otherwise, I'm not taking you on because this won't work, right? You have to be growth-oriented. You want more of something. Doesn't have to be revenue, but more of the right people, more structure, more free time, more process, a combination, right? But more of something. Um, you have to be coachable, right? So you're open-minded. You don't resist doing new things. Actually, what I want is people who actively like seek them out.

SPEAKER_02

Right.

SPEAKER_00

And then the third piece, what you're talking about, is you're willing to be vulnerable, right? Like you can recognize like I'm feeling shitty about something and I'm gonna vocalize it and I'm going to be receptive to whatever is gonna get sent back to me.

SPEAKER_02

Right.

SPEAKER_00

Right. I what I was talking about with Rodney, like I want that. Right. I need my clients to want that too. Because if they're gonna shut down to it, I'm like, I'm not gonna take your money. Right. Right. Like this work is all about that.

SPEAKER_02

Right.

SPEAKER_00

Right. You can spend $12 and go by traction.

SPEAKER_02

Right.

SPEAKER_00

I'll send you the fucking files of the tools. Like by all means, right? But like if we're gonna be in here, like we're gonna face some hard shit. Right. Right. And you're gonna not only be okay with it, but you're gonna want it.

SPEAKER_04

Right, right. And that because that's growth. Yes, right. You know, I uh one of my team members in my office, I value her so much because she tells me the shit I need to hear, even if I don't want to hear it. And she's really the only one who has the balls to tell me, and I love her. I love her for that, because that's there's no way that we're gonna keep doing the next things and growing without that.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, yeah. And I tell you guys all the time, like, you're paying me to tell you what you need to hear, right? Not what you want to hear. I'm not here to placate you. Right. Right. And if I piss you off and you don't want to be here, I'm okay with that. I'll sleep good at night.

SPEAKER_04

Yep.

SPEAKER_00

Right? Because it'll probably plant a seed in your head and maybe a year later you'll be like, that motherfucker, he was right.

SPEAKER_04

He freaking knows what he's talking about. Damn it, I hate it when he's right. How many times are I text you and I'm like, fuck, I hate it when you're right.

SPEAKER_00

Do you hate when I'm right or do you hate that you were wrong?

SPEAKER_04

I don't hate either because I I I love being wrong because then I learned something.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04

And that's just that's what it's all about. 100%. So I want to kind of segue to like our little segment called Truth or Bullshit. Yeah. I'm just gonna read off like a statement and say truth or bullshit, and we'll go from there.

SPEAKER_02

All right.

SPEAKER_04

All right. So one, you can separate personal issues from business performance.

SPEAKER_00

Bullshit.

SPEAKER_04

Say more.

SPEAKER_00

I think that it's you know, we delineate because you're in these four walls nine to five, you're in these four walls, you know, five to nine.

SPEAKER_02

Right.

SPEAKER_00

But at the end of the day, like we're just messy fucking people.

SPEAKER_04

Yeah, your nervous system is fine.

SPEAKER_00

And all that shit tracks.

SPEAKER_04

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00

Right? The marriage shit, the kids shit, it's all showing up at work. Yep. The work shit is showing up at home. Right. Right? Like, now, can you get to a point where maybe it's not separate, but you're living and doing the kind of work that you're truly passionate about where you don't feel like that level of anxiety.

SPEAKER_02

Right.

SPEAKER_00

Yes, I think you can alleviate that drastically. Right. Right. And that's really like what I'm trying to do with my clients is like not wanting the 3 a.m. cold sweat next to your husband, am I gonna make payroll? Right. Right. And then not being in the business saying, I'm not giving my kids enough attention. Like we want to be able to address those things, right? And have the business to a point where that's not happening.

SPEAKER_02

Right.

SPEAKER_00

But things are going to happen. Bad shit's gonna happen in your personal life, bad shit's gonna happen in your business. You can push it away and compartmentalize it and tell yourself that you're separating it, but it's not.

SPEAKER_04

If you don't have any tools, then you're not separating it, you're just burying it.

SPEAKER_00

So you have to learn how to cope with it because I think a true delineation is not gonna happen.

SPEAKER_04

Right, right. You have to be able to say, like, oh, I'm dysregulated because something happened at work. So what do I need to do before I go home to my husband, my children, so that I can be myself. And that that pause in between is everything.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04

Yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00

It's where like people say, like, oh, I leave work at work, and it's like, fuck you.

SPEAKER_04

No, you don't, you liar. Yeah, exactly. Yeah. Next one is great leaders are naturally confident.

SPEAKER_00

Bullshit.

SPEAKER_04

Yeah. Why do you think that?

SPEAKER_00

Um so I always talk about leadership as a journey with no destination, right? You're constantly getting better. Um and I think self-doubt is prevalent in a lot of high performers, you know? Um and confidence comes through conditioning of like continued success.

SPEAKER_02

Right.

SPEAKER_00

The other piece of it I think too is like you should never get to a point in life where you're constantly confident. Yeah. Right. Because I think if you are, you've become complacent.

SPEAKER_04

And then you're dying.

SPEAKER_00

Right. You're not seeking discomfort, you're not learning new things. Right. So when you get to that point of like, oh, I feel pretty confident all the time, it's like, fuck.

SPEAKER_04

Yep.

SPEAKER_00

I'm complacent. I need a new thing.

SPEAKER_01

Yep.

SPEAKER_00

And when a new thing is being learned, right, and you start to level up, you don't know it that well.

SPEAKER_04

Right.

SPEAKER_00

Right.

SPEAKER_04

Um It's like riding a bike, you gotta fall down a bunch of times before you realize that it's a lot of fun.

SPEAKER_00

It's gotta be developed. And I think the the best way to articulate that is one of EOS's core values, which is humbly confident. Right. So it's we know our stuff, but we also know we're not perfect.

SPEAKER_02

Right.

SPEAKER_00

And there's always room, right? So when I come into a session room, I'm confident, right? I know the material.

SPEAKER_02

Right.

SPEAKER_00

That does not mean that I'm like, I've made it, right? Exactly. I'm constantly looking, like in the session, when I'm done, like looking at my notes and saying, okay, what came up today that was different? Where could I have gone in a different way? How could I have gone deeper? Right.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00

And then that comes into having these conversations, reading something new that's not like an EOS doctrine, right? Right? A Simon Seneca, a Jocko Willink, like gap in the gain, like all those kinds of 10x is easier than 2x, like those books where there's depth of the concept, and I'm like, oh shit, it unlocks something new in my head. Right now I'm a little uncomfortable about it because there's a door I walked into which is unknown.

SPEAKER_02

Right.

SPEAKER_00

You know?

SPEAKER_02

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00

So yeah, that that level-loaded confidence to me indicates stagnation, which is lack of growth and yeah, because it's like, like you said, it gets to this point where it's like it's not confidence, it's complacency or arrogance, right?

SPEAKER_04

Where it's like overly confident. Like if you think that you know everything there is to know, then you're dying. If you're not growing, you're dying.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04

Yeah. Yeah. Emotions don't belong in business.

SPEAKER_00

Bullshit.

SPEAKER_04

Yeah. Where do uh where do you see kind of people get that mixed up?

SPEAKER_00

Um, I mean, I I think with my clients I don't, right? Because that passion has to be there, right? The emotion needs to come out.

SPEAKER_02

Right.

SPEAKER_00

The best sessions that I've had are the ones where people are screaming and they're crying and they're laughing, right? It typically happens in annuals. Yeah. Um, but that needs to be there. We're human beings. That's how We connect, right? It's through emotion. Um, you know, one of the things we do in annuals, um, we go through like a personal histories. Um, one of the questions I ask is, you know, what's something in this room or something about you that no one in this room knows about you? And the way I frame it up for clients is if you feel comfortable sharing it, that's probably not the thing.

SPEAKER_02

Right.

SPEAKER_00

Right? Go a little deeper. Something that you're gonna be a little apprehensive. Like, should I say this? Yeah, that's the thing.

SPEAKER_02

Right.

SPEAKER_00

Right. Where you're a little vulnerable, or a lot vulnerable. Like I've had some wild shit come up.

SPEAKER_01

Really?

SPEAKER_00

Yeah. Um, I had a team in January where every single person it was just like their deepest level of trauma. And I'm talking like the first guy that went, so the first question is your hometown? Yep. There's six questions. Number six is the one, the unique. Couldn't even get through his hometown because he started crying. Wow. And we sat there for an hour and a half, and it was like every single person balling. Why? The owners, the leadership team.

SPEAKER_04

Therapeutic, right? To like share that and be accepted.

SPEAKER_00

Well, because what happened was the the mask and the cloak, right? Of like, that's the sales guy, that's the owner, that's the operations. Like that all went away. And like in that hour and a half and in that room for the rest of the day, we were all just like raw humans, right? With emotion and fucking mess and things that we were carrying around. Yep. And it allowed everybody to see each other as truly human. Right. Right. And so the the hierarchy, the titles, all that shit stripped away, and you created this common ground. And that's where human beings connect is on an emotional level of like, wow, you went through some fucked up shit, and so do I. And we have more in common than I thought. And like that now you might get me.

SPEAKER_04

Yeah. Now I've got more of a buy-in, and like now let's now we can really connect and keep talking.

SPEAKER_00

And now I understand why you show up the way you do because you have this stuff, right? And so the the empathy has been increased.

SPEAKER_04

Empathy is a huge part.

SPEAKER_00

So I want that emotion. I want that connection. You think about the best relationships that you have in your personal life, there's gonna be some, you know, emotional turmoil that's happened that you've navigated through. Right. It's what makes strong marriages so good is like you go through that shit together.

SPEAKER_04

Smooth scene has never made a skilled sailor, right? It's cheesy, but it's so true.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04

Yeah. Yeah. You have to figure out how to navigate conflict together because if not, that's why we would say in therapy, like the point is to not not feel ever feel stressed.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04

It's we need optimal levels of stress because that builds resilience.

SPEAKER_03

Yep.

SPEAKER_04

Otherwise, we're just gonna have a huge big reaction anytime the smallest little stress comes around because we haven't had a chance to kind of feel it.

SPEAKER_00

Listen, you can run a business without emotion and you can be successful and like generate revenue and grow it and exit it, like a hundred percent. I don't want to work with those clients. I want clients that want to build something like impactful and meaningful and have real deep, genuine connection.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00

And like make an impact, not just in like who the customer client base they're serving is, but with the people that they're working with.

SPEAKER_04

Right.

SPEAKER_00

And that's gonna come through like that shared emotion.

SPEAKER_04

Exactly. Because like, yeah, you can you can build a business like that. I don't think a business like that would last.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04

That's my opinion. Just because like eventually, like if there's no emotion, like that's gonna translate down to your customers, right? Because people can't connect to you as a brand or a business, whatever. And then you're tank. Exactly. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Leadership is about controlling other people.

SPEAKER_00

Bullshit.

SPEAKER_04

Yes, go into that one. Because you know, I struggled with control in ways that maybe I didn't realize until I couldn't ignore it anymore.

SPEAKER_00

Leadership is about empowering people. Yes. Right. Yep. Um, yeah. If I mean we talk about it when we go through LMA. Um, like it's more about accountability. Like, you cannot hold people accountable. And there's that Jim Collins quote that says, as soon as you feel the need to tightly manage someone, you've made a hiring decision wrong.

SPEAKER_02

Right.

SPEAKER_00

Um so leadership is about empowering and developing and supporting um and pouring into them, right? So they can become self-sufficient. Right. Right. So it's it's the exact opposite. Right. It's like not controlling, right. Is great leadership.

SPEAKER_04

You need to let them fail. Yes. Right. I see this so much as a parent. It's my son and I had this really kind of amazing interaction the other night where he um he was really upset. He has big behaviors, you know, he's got like his ADHD diagnosis, so to speak, where really it's just a dysregulated nervous system. And he was what happened? Oh, so I usually will do bedtime with him, uh either me or Eric. We always do two books. And tonight we we can only do one. And he's like, Mom, can you puggle with me? And that's our word puggle instead of struggle. And I was like, I would love to, baby, but tonight I can't. I have to do XYZ and let me go ask Daddy. Went downstairs, Eric said no, because he wasn't planning for it, totally fine. So I came back up and told him, and I saw like a flash and then this like a flash of emotion, but then this huge reaction, and he got super anxious and so forth. So I regulated him first, like co-regulation, and then I asked him, I was like, Did you feel sad when mom said no? And his response was poetic. It was, yeah, and I don't really know how to feel sad that much. I never had a chance to. Holy shit, did that fucking wake me up as a therapist? Like, he's right, because I was so avoidant of my own grief at times that I would didn't want him to feel sad. I thought I was being a good mom. Yeah, right. Instead of just letting him know that sad is a normal feeling that he can tolerate.

SPEAKER_03

Yep.

SPEAKER_04

And that was very eye-opening. And like I wound up like doing a little EMDR on him too, which was cool for the both of us. Um, but it was it was fascinating.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04

And I had to stop controlling. Like I had to let him fail, let him feel disappointed, let him feel sad.

SPEAKER_00

It's normal. Those, and we talk about it in focus day, right? Those effective parenting principles and techniques and things you do directly correlate to how you show up as a leader. And I had, you know, similar like with my son the other day, right? So same thing, ADHD, like just gets distracted, and you know, and I know that, right? But he's nine and a half, and like is at that point where I need to empower him to be able to make decisions, right? So it was 610. His friend was over the house, and they're like, Can we go to 7-Eleven? And I said, You can go, you're making the choice, but you need to be in this house at 6 30. Like, that's been the time all day. Right. I go, it's kind of tight. I'm like, and you know, if you're here at 6 31, you're gonna lose your bike tomorrow. He's like, I know. Said okay.

SPEAKER_02

Okay.

SPEAKER_00

And he went, and I knew what was gonna happen. Right. 6 38, he pulls in the driveway, runs in the house. I'm sorry, I'm late. I'm like, okay, but you lost your bike tomorrow.

SPEAKER_04

Right. It doesn't have to be this big back and forth.

SPEAKER_00

And it was a meltdown, right? And he was pissed.

SPEAKER_04

Yep.

SPEAKER_00

Um, you know, and I sat down with him the next day. I'm like, you gotta understand that my job as a parent is to teach you lessons that are gonna allow you to be successful in life. Exactly. And I know you might not understand that, right? The easy thing for me to do would have been like, no, you're not gonna go because you're not gonna make it.

SPEAKER_02

Right.

SPEAKER_00

I said, but I need to let you make those decisions and I need to let you fuck that up so that you can see it and feel it, and it sucks. Yep, but that's how you're gonna learn.

SPEAKER_04

Exactly. Because what you're teaching him is time management skills.

SPEAKER_00

And guess what happened on Sunday? He was supposed to be home at 6 30, he was there at 625.

SPEAKER_04

Oh, right. How freaking cool is that?

SPEAKER_00

Might be an anomaly, but might not, but we'll see.

SPEAKER_04

But he's learning.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah. Right. And that's leadership, right? Is I'm not gonna tell you what to do. I'm gonna give you the ability to make a choice. Right. And then when you make that choice, if you fuck it up, I'm gonna be there with you, right, to teach you that lesson, and then I'm gonna continue to empower you because I wanna develop you into a self-sufficient person that can go execute with confidence and deliver.

SPEAKER_04

Yeah. I love too what you said about you said the next day I talked to him after his tantrum. That timing-wise, too. Tactical?

SPEAKER_00

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04

Yeah. Why is that?

SPEAKER_00

Because you got to sit with it.

SPEAKER_04

Right.

SPEAKER_00

I'm not gonna swoop in and alleviate it, right? You feel that pain.

SPEAKER_04

Exactly. Which I know as a parent too. What I noticed for me, it was really hard to see my child feel that pain. Because as a parent, when our kids hurt, we hurt.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04

Right? So that, but that's so important too. Like not swoop in with the like giving the oh, this is why. That's important. Let them sit with the emotion first.

SPEAKER_00

Well, it ties right back in, right? As like a business owner and a leader is like, okay, you always have to make the decisions like with the long-term greater good. Yes. Right? Going back to that VTO, like, how is how do I face this situation to make sure my decision is going to drive towards achieving that, right? Right. My long-term objective and yours with the kids as I look out and extrapolate this. Right. I need to empower you. I need you to learn the lesson. I need to know that when you're 15, this is already ingrained. Exactly. So if I jump in right now to alleviate this tantrum, yeah, today is easy.

SPEAKER_04

Right.

SPEAKER_00

Right. But I'm just delaying.

SPEAKER_04

Exactly.

SPEAKER_00

And then tomorrow is gonna be really fucking hard.

SPEAKER_04

Yeah. And then adulthood's gonna be really hard.

SPEAKER_00

Really hard. And that's our job, right? Like I say it all the time. Like, our job as parents is not to create a comfortable life for our kids.

SPEAKER_04

Exactly.

SPEAKER_00

It's to create and give them the skills so they can be a successful adult. And guess what? That means hard shit's gotta happen now.

SPEAKER_04

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00

You know?

SPEAKER_04

Yeah. And listening, because I know, like I was I've said that since my kids were born, Philip six and a half. And it really was only till like that conversation with him the other day. You know, I've had times where I've let him feel discomfort before too, but by listening to him, that was the feedback I needed to hear too. Just because he's only six doesn't mean that he doesn't deserve to be listened to. We I hate that, like, let's talk at our kids and not get their feedback because I needed to hear that.

SPEAKER_00

It's the quarterly conversation, right? You shift the telling narrative to an asking narrative, right? Get them talking. Right. And if you don't understand, you ask a follow-up question, get deeper and truly listen. Exactly. Empathy. And I think with kids too, because they're they don't have the vocabulary or the cognitive skill to articulate what the feeling is, it's such good practice for you as a leader to ask those probing questions. Right. Because you really have to like get strategic about, you know, kind of guiding them into unloading and listening for what like really is under their words.

SPEAKER_04

It's really being a parent's like being a therapist, being an implementer. We have to like get out of our head and listen.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04

And that's, you know, they always say, like, you know, parenting doesn't come with a book. It should. It really should come with a couple of classes on how to just practice empathy and understanding the perspective. If we did that with the adults in our life too, that would be wonderful.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04

Yeah. Yeah. Dan, thank you so much for being here and for these conversations and for helping me grow. And of course, you've helped me grow too. I appreciate that. Thank you so much. Hope everybody enjoyed our episode of The Truth About Healing with Dan Singer. Dan, you want to give everyone just a little bit of um info on where they can find you?

unknown

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00

So Instagram, DanSingerEOS. Um, you know, best way to really kind of understand who I am as a person and see if there's even a personality match. Um, also LinkedIn, and then just uh Google DanSingerEOS will bring you to my my site.

SPEAKER_04

How would someone know that they're a good fit to work with you?

SPEAKER_00

They'll know.

SPEAKER_04

Just watch the reels, right? Yep.

SPEAKER_00

If you've got, you know, if you like to use some foul language and you know, you like fucked up sense of humor and like that's me. Yeah. Very direct. Um my style of facilitation is is very much like I am going to call you very bluntly and direct on what's going on. But at the same time, I'm also gonna sit with you and support you through that.

unknown

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00

You know, I am not like a gentle coddling coach.

SPEAKER_04

And I thank God for that. Thank you so much for being here. Appreciate you. Thank you everybody for joining us, and we will see you on the next episode. Thank you for listening to another episode of the Truth About Healing Podcast. If you know someone who's still stuck, share this episode with them. Because as you know, the truth can set them free. And if you're ready to get started to see what you need to repair, contact us at peacefulliving mental health counseling.com and we will get you started. Until next time, I'm Dana Coretta Stein, reminding you we repeat what we don't repair. This podcast is for informational purposes only and is not a substitute for professional mental health or medical advice. Listening does not create a therapist client relationship. If you need support, contact a licensed professional or your local emergency services.