Episode 7: The Truth About Burnout, Play & Why Adults Forgot How to Have Fun

Can a tiny hamster teach us something about healing?

Maybe.

In this lighthearted but deeply meaningful episode of The Truth About Healing, Dana and Claudio are joined by a surprise guest - Hammy, Dana's son's pet hamster which sparks a conversation about something many adults have forgotten:

How to play.

As parents, professionals, and high-achieving adults, we're constantly juggling responsibilities, deadlines, schedules, and endless to-do lists. Somewhere along the way, many of us lose touch with the parts of ourselves that feel joy, curiosity, creativity, and connection.

This episode explores why burnout isn't just about doing too much, it's often about not doing enough of what actually restores us.

Through stories about parenting, nervous system regulation, vacations, movement, relationships, and everyday life, Dana and Claudio unpack why play isn't a luxury, it's a biological necessity.

In This Episode, We Discuss:

✔️ Why today's world makes parenting feel harder than ever

✔️ How burnout slowly creeps into everyday life

✔️ Why your nervous system needs play, not just rest

✔️ The difference between slowing down and having fun

✔️ How movement helps regulate anxiety and stress

✔️ Why children naturally teach us what healing looks like

✔️ The importance of letting kids experience disappointment and failure

✔️ How connection replenishes your emotional energy

✔️ Why your hobbies matter more than you think

✔️ The role of mindfulness in everyday moments

✔️ How to recognize when your body is asking for a "pit stop"

✔️ Why adults need to stop waiting until everything is finished before allowing themselves to enjoy life

One of the biggest takeaways from this episode:

Play isn't a reward you earn after you've finished everything on your to-do list.

It's the fuel that gives you the energy to keep showing up for the life you're trying to build.

Because healing isn't just about reducing stress.

It's about creating a life your nervous system actually enjoys living.

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Additional Resources

🧠 EMDR Resources for Clinicians & Clients
www.danacarretta.com/shop

🛠️ Recommended Therapy Tools, Regulation Resources & EMDR Systems for Clinicians
www.danacarretta.com/therapytools

🎁 Free Nervous System Resources
www.danacarretta.com/free

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Whether you're struggling with anxiety, trauma, burnout, parenting stress, relationship challenges, or feeling stuck in survival mode, our team is here to help.

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Transcript

SPEAKER_03 0:00

Um welcome to another episode of The Truth About Healing, a podcast that's here to challenge everything you think you knew about therapy. I'm Dana Koretskine, EMDR and neuroinformed therapist. And I'm on a mission to help 10 million people change their patterns, relationships, and future generations by teaching them how to gain control of their nervous system. Let's go with it. Welcome back, everyone, to the truth about healing. So glad to have you guys around today. We also have a very special guest, Hammy, who is my son's little hamster that he was like, Mom, you should take him to the podcast today and interview him. So naturally I had to, um, because anything that my son thinks is a funny idea, I need to do it. Um, thank you. Hi, Hammy. We're so glad that you're here. Um, but this kind of segues into our topic today where we're kind of just chatting a little bit about parenting and uh how this world just isn't designed right now to support parents and how hard that is. And I could speak from my own personal experience with this. Um, you know, things are really different nowadays where parents have to work and we don't really have the luxury of always staying home and being with our kids. And I get frustrated all the time whenever, like, you know, my son has a practice at four o'clock or you know, school gets out at 2:30, and I'm like, parents work. Like, how are we all figuring this out? Um, and that creates that burnout and that loop. Um, and it's just really easy to feel like your foot's on the gas pedal nonstop. Um, so today I just kind of want to have those conversations about how hard it is for parents, how much our kids drive us crazy. Um, I had a conversation with my sister this morning when I was on my way here. And uh my nephew's four. He's giving her a really hard time right now. And, you know, she was saying, she's like, you know, I'm starting to question, am I not a good mom? And I was like, no, you're a great mom. These kids are just assholes sometimes. Like they are just four-year-olds can be dicks when they want to be. And it doesn't mean you're a bad mom. It just means that they're four. And, you know, my daughter's three. She just turned three last week. Um, and they they are coming into their own of um learning their voice. And as a therapist, I'm so aware of how important that is and how I don't want to silence that because I don't want them to be an adult who feels like they can't speak up. Um, but yeah, that's pretty much what we're chatting about today. Um, and with my boy Claudio, who our conversations are always so good. And we've got Hammy to chime in when we need. How are you, Claudio? How's it going?

SPEAKER_02 3:01

I'm good.

unknown 3:02

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 3:02

I'm good.

SPEAKER_03 3:03

Dealing with my neuroses and my bringing hamsters.

SPEAKER_02 3:06

Very happy to see Hammy over here.

SPEAKER_03 3:08

He's a good hamster. He's a really good hamster. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 3:12

But I mean, so yeah, I mean, this is great. This is, I mean, even even our friend Hammy right here. You know, this is you kind of indulging your child and and allowing him to feel safe enough to say, mommy, you know, can you can you think for a for a for a you know, for a spin, you know.

SPEAKER_03 3:31

I don't want to ever like say to my son, like, no, we can't. I'm doing a podcast. That's so serious. I life is not that serious. And I think if I ever get to that point where I shut down and stop learning how to play, someone take me out back and like knock me around, because that's just not how we're all wired. We need to play. We were talking about this earlier that play is something that we lose as we grow up. Um, and this is where I I love being a mom because your kids will take you back to when time was fun, like things that you used to do, but it's really easy to not see it because I have to do a million things, I have to do laundry, I have to do blah blah blah. And that's why we need to slow down and catch it. Because I always say, like, our our kids are like the solution, they are the answer to a life worth living. You know, even if you're not a parent, that doesn't mean you can't connect your own inner child, or if you have nieces and nephews, or if you work in schools like I used to, like being around the younger generation is it helps kind of check what's really important and remind us how to be a person.

SPEAKER_02 4:47

So let's talk a little bit about play because I gotta be honest here. I love play. Yeah, I am a goofball, I love playing.

SPEAKER_00 4:56

Love that.

SPEAKER_02 4:57

Um, is probably my one of my favorite things, I think, about me, that I have that side that's super playful.

SPEAKER_00 5:03

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 5:04

Um, but, and there's a but that life kind of sometimes consumes us, right? Because we get so involved in the projects, the job, the finances, the taxes, the this, the that, the whatever.

SPEAKER_03 5:18

All the grown up shit. All the grown-up nonsense that's why I have a sign in my office that says I can't adult today.

unknown 5:24

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 5:25

How do you what do you how do you mitigate this? How do you understand that? How do you get out of that space when you're so like all this adulting has to happen? Um and even though I'm tired of it, even though I don't want to do this anymore, yeah. I probably could have a little break and maybe do something fun, but I I don't because I know I got responsibilities. I gotta take care of them.

SPEAKER_03 5:46

Right.

SPEAKER_02 5:47

How do you mitigate this?

SPEAKER_03 5:48

It's a great question. And I don't know if I fully. Let's start with the hard one. Let's start with the hard one. Let's start with a hard one, right? Um part of the problem is that I think society speaking, we're not mitigating it. We are kind of succumbing to the all the to-dos. And we keep um just saying yes to everything, right? Oh, yeah, I'll do that. And oh, okay, you want me to work on that project? No problem. No one speaks up. You know, like my son is in first grade, and there's all this homework and all these projects. And I'm sitting there like, when does this kid get to play? He's in school all day, and then we come home and we're working on like a rainforest project till like six o'clock, seven o'clock at night. And so I think the way to mitigate this is we don't need to start talking more and fighting back, so to speak, of you know, we don't need to keep doing all these to-dos. Like, why are we all busting our ass? For what? To make money so we can't take it with us when we die? What's the point?

SPEAKER_02 6:53

So that is a powerful statement. And I think you you hear it a lot. I think it's pretty common, but easier said than done. Totally. And I'm not gonna lie, I'm gonna throw this little like thing out there because I believe that we are in a in a section of the country, and there are others throughout the country that it almost like demands more of that. And whether on purpose or not on purpose, we are in one of the tri-state area, and we are in one of the places that just daily life is so fast, so quickly moving, so expensive. New York, right? There's so many things that are pressuring us to just make sure that we keep up, that we're doing what we've got to do. And and it's impossible sometimes, it feels impossible, and you have to be very intentional as to how to like make sure that you have blocks of like, hey, this is fun time, this is hang out with my girls' time, this is hang out with my boys' time, this is hey, we're gonna all get together, and you have to kind of almost like plan them. Whereas there are other parts of the country that are more laid back, and you can see that just the demeanor of people are different, so different, not on edge, more willing to have fun, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 7:58

Relax.

SPEAKER_02 7:59

So, how much fault do we give to our environment? And how do we get out of our environment when we're stuck in our environment?

SPEAKER_03 8:05

Such a good point. Cause I mean, yeah, we're I live in New York, I lived in the city for a little while, and that shit is like on crack. Like everything goes, goes, goes, goes, goes, goes, goes, goes, goes, goes. And it's very different from like living in like, you know, rural somewhere where things aren't as booked. Um I don't know how to navigate that in a way that you know it starts with one person. It starts with one person saying, like, no, I'm not gonna do that and slowing down. But I mean, New York City, I just keep picturing it's it's electric, right? People just love like that that speed and that intensity, and it's a city that never sleeps. Well, that's not good. We need to sleep to function. Um, and so there are you know, sometimes it's well, maybe we need to change our environment. Um, and some people do really well in that high fat, like fast-paced environment. I notice for myself that I I'm very, very sensitive and I can absorb the energy around me, which isn't a good thing if the energy doesn't give space to slow down. So that's where, like you said, like being really intentional is really important. Like I knew it was like a problem when like my husband and I were like, do we need to schedule sex as like a thing for the two of us? And we're like, because our lives are that crazy. I'm like, that's a problem.

SPEAKER_00 9:27

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 9:27

If we're not just slowing down enough for things for it to happen spontaneously, that's the problem.

SPEAKER_02 9:34

Let's talk about you said a couple of things that made me think. Let's talk about um slowing down and having fun. Because sometimes they're not the same thing, right? Right. Um, I'm assuming slowing down, and again, you can jump in here and be like, no, that's not what I um slowing down would be just kind of not that high-paced lifestyle that we live, right? That's that's how I interpretic energy, right? Slowing down, right? And then when I interpret fun, fun does not mean slowing down. Fun could mean, hey, you know, let's go play pickleball. That's exciting. We're going, we're playing, we're everything is fast about it. And you are kind of ramping up, but you're not in a calm state. You're the opposite, but you are being happy because that's you're enjoying it, right?

SPEAKER_03 10:13

Exactly. And that's where when you think of like the nervous system, it's that ventral vagal state is play. That's the play state where it's like a blend of sympathetic nervous system energy, which is the fight or flight, and the parasympathetic, which is the rest and digest. So play, ventral vagal, is a blend, a balance of the two. So you have enough energy to actually like do stuff like play pickleball or whatever it is. Um, but you're in a regulated place that you're actually able to connect with others and say, like, oh yeah, that was fun and stuff. You're you're just open for connection.

SPEAKER_02 10:49

By the way, can you tell what's on my mind? Tell him, oh, you want to check out Hammy? Hammy and I are gonna go play a little pickleball after this.

SPEAKER_03 10:57

I love that. So athletic.

SPEAKER_02 11:00

He is pure athleticism right there. Um, but so no, so I I I love it. And I think that's that's kind of like the point, right? Because understanding that this is necessary, I think it's so necessary. Yeah, and I don't and I don't know. This is the part that I like personally, I struggle with this. Yeah, I know it's necessary. My body's screaming it. I think everything internally is screaming it.

SPEAKER_03 11:23

How do you know your body's screaming it?

SPEAKER_02 11:27

Personally, I can actually feel rest restlessness.

SPEAKER_03 11:30

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 11:31

And it's like almost like pent-up energy. Yes. And I'm tired, I'm exhausted, I'm even like burned out, but I can feel like my body is like my job is very sedentary. Yeah, I'm sitting down, and then when I am like on my feet all day, like for example, I told you that this week and I was kind of up and moving around all it wasn't like high energy, like it was just being on my feet, right? Talking to people, maybe moving equipment around. It wasn't a workout, it wasn't in I don't want to say not enjoyable because it was enjoyable in aspects in the work aspect of things, right? But it wasn't like I was doing like a go-karting session or like a pickleball. Yeah, you know, and it's hard to to kind of force yourself into that space, uh, you know.

SPEAKER_03 12:12

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 12:13

And that's kind of where I fall sometimes.

SPEAKER_03 12:15

Like being able to force yourself into a play space?

SPEAKER_02 12:18

Yes.

SPEAKER_03 12:19

Why do you think you get um stuck? Why is it hard to force yourself into it?

SPEAKER_02 12:27

Um that's a good that's a very good question. I I don't know. I guess we wouldn't be having this conversation if I knew. Um I don't know. I think sometimes I get really stuck on the responsibility of being a grown-up. I need to do what has to happen. And I think I think I have like a gauge inside. Yeah. And and it's a I don't I mean I'm trying to articulate this as I'm thinking of it games.

SPEAKER_03 12:49

I literally think in pictures, so I totally get that gauge. I'm like, I see it. Like, yep.

SPEAKER_02 12:54

I have a gauge that tells me, okay, when I'm when I feel comfortable with the things that I need to get done, then I can allow myself to one, rest, relax, and maybe have fun. So that's already the first problem because maybe that gauge is may not be the most realistic, because I'm not gonna lie, I just don't think it is. Um, especially when you're talking about balancing life. Right. You know, I can I think we can get to that place, but not right now.

SPEAKER_00 13:21

Right.

SPEAKER_02 13:21

So there has to be a balance today so that we can hopefully make it to that point.

SPEAKER_00 13:26

Right.

SPEAKER_02 13:27

And the other thing is like, let's say I I've kind of gotten to a point that I'm tired, I've done too much, that I need to kind of just rest. I'm so burnt out that it's just now I just want to veg out.

SPEAKER_03 13:37

Yep. And that went the opposite direction.

SPEAKER_02 13:39

Completely the opposite direction. So now I don't want to get out, now I don't want to do anything physical, now I don't want it's it's a more it's almost like a it's like a counter, like to it's always weird. So that's kind of where I fall.

SPEAKER_03 13:50

So I don't, you know, that helps that I mean you're describing the nervous system, right? So like that's perfect because it's uh and that's I think like that's the norm for a lot of people. A lot of people are feeling that like I'm shot and I I go full speed. And so then when I actually can stop, I've got nothing left in the tank to actually do stuff that I enjoy because now I'm in shutdown mode, in this like collapse, right? So when we think of the nervous system, and this is kind of going off of like this polyvagal theory, is we have the sympathetic nervous system, which is fight or flight, and then that blended state, uh, ventral vagals, like that parasympathetic with blends of sympathetic. And then when we're in sympathetic for too long, we drop down to parasympathetic, which is the dorsal vagal shutdown. And that's our body is like um hypo arousal, where we start shutting down because you can only keep your foot on the gas for so long. Like, think about it. If you're driving a car and you're going well over like 70 miles an hour, you burn gas more quickly because that's not the optimal speed, usually how cars are built. So eventually, if you don't stop and fill up the tank, you're gonna run out of gas. You're gonna run out of gas. And that's exactly what happens to us adults is we run out of gas and we just need to sit and veg out because we're gonna be at the pump longer now, because we're even more overdrawn.

SPEAKER_02 15:26

I can't tell you how that wasn't that analogy, like hit. I love that analogy, right? Maybe you hit the right audience, at least than me, because I'm a guy and it's I like cars. But I got it right away. And it's interesting because man, like it it is it is tough. It is tough to go into the pit to continue the uh car analogy. Yes, that's it. I was gonna say pit.

SPEAKER_03 15:47

So I'm glad that you just picked up on that.

SPEAKER_02 15:49

Um to to kind of refuel or do whatever because and then the worst part is like then I get upset because now it's like I now that I'm I've decided I'm not doing anything, oh well, get up and do something. I'm like, no, my and it's just not because your body's like, no, I need I need rest.

SPEAKER_03 16:07

But what we don't realize is that if we actually stop before we get to that overextended point, play is the gas station. So connecting with people that we love, even if it's just like a cup of coffee or going for a walk, like it doesn't have to be this whole big thing, but connecting with another person is the pit stop. And that gives us fuel to do the other boring shit that we hate all hate doing, like our taxes. I feel like no one likes that. So I love my accountant, he's the best guy ever because I know numbers, AOP, not into it. Um, but that's the play is the pit stop.

SPEAKER_02 16:49

Yeah, yeah. I I I understand it, I embrace it.

SPEAKER_03 16:54

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 16:55

But it's it and the hard part now is like really putting it into action. Because I think that's what it comes down to. It comes down to the city.

SPEAKER_03 17:00

Well, we try to do it backwards, right? We try to go, well, I'll get to play as soon as I finish this.

SPEAKER_02 17:04

That's exactly what, yeah, my example was it's the opposite.

SPEAKER_03 17:07

I will be able to do this when I play, when I rest and get to do all the things. That's why I I like Mondays actually, because I feel like Mondays are usually my best day. Because I'm coming off of a weekend where I got to do not work related things. I got to be with my family, I got to play. I did organizing this weekend, which was very fun. I'm on like a project where I'm getting the containers. It's not is that your way of playing, by the way?

SPEAKER_01 17:37

Yes, can that be seen as a way of play? Like, totally.

SPEAKER_03 17:40

Because I get to use my creative brain and my kids help me too. So, like, we do it together. Like, my daughter was helping me put together this IKEA furniture and she was holding the screw and I was showing her. And as like, we're doing it, I'm like, oh, this is working on her fine motor skills, so this is great for her too. Like, anytime we're doing anything interactive, we're we're learning, we're connecting. That's what it's about. That's why I love being a therapist, right? I get to talk to people for a living. Yeah, that's amazing.

SPEAKER_02 18:11

Well, this is my pit stop. My Mondays are my pit stop when I get to hang out with my bestie.

SPEAKER_03 18:16

Love that. Yes, I love and Hammy too. Hammy's like, what about me?

SPEAKER_02 18:19

What about me?

SPEAKER_03 18:20

Don't leave me out, please. Don't leave me out. But that's like what it's about, right? The hu human beings are hardwired for connection. You've heard me say before the UCLA loneliness study showed that people who reported higher uh experiences of loneliness had a 20-year-less life expectancy. So if you feel less connected, you die sooner. That's nuts.

SPEAKER_02 18:47

Yeah. What what do you tell? I mean, like I I can imagine that hitting hard and even hard to hear if you're in a place where things are not like working out like you need them to work out physically or emotionally, whatever you may be. What do you tell the person that's that's kind of on that burnout spectrum? Because sometimes I don't think everyone always recognizes when they're burnt out, unless it's of like it's official now. Well, I'm burnt out, I can't do anything else. But we slowly, we very slowly kind of creep into that space of being burnt out, not realizing it until it's too late and then then you're done, then you're shot and you have to kind of be out.

SPEAKER_00 19:20

Right.

SPEAKER_02 19:21

What do you tell that person that's kind of stuck in that burnt out stage area, maybe they don't even know they're burnt out, but they just feel lethargic, tired, not really feeling out of, and they're just consumed in what they have to do. How do what do you tell that person to kind of slowly get themselves like back up and moving?

SPEAKER_03 19:36

This is where people are so important because sometimes we're not gonna be able to pull ourselves out if we're really low. And this is where having supportive people in our life or seeking help, like going to therapy or something, we we can't heal in isolation. So that's where, like, you know, if I'm off, my husband will be like, You alright? Do you need a hug? And that little like moment like checks me of like, yeah, I do, like, and I love that he can do that because the Eric I met 14 years ago was not that. So being around that very warm Italian family has rubbed off on him. Um, but that's that's what's important, or being vulnerable, like going to someone, even if it's not it doesn't feel comfortable, we don't heal through comfort and saying, I'm struggling. Are are you around to um just hang out for a little bit? Like ask for help. That's the biggest thing. When you feel like you're really down low and you can't connect, you need someone's help to pull you out of it.

SPEAKER_02 20:49

How much of uh burnout is uh chemicals inside your inside your body?

SPEAKER_03 20:55

Oh, very much. It's all connected. Yeah, it's not a mental thing. It is absolutely a chemical experience in the in the brain and the body. So the same thing going back to like that um the gas station analogy. So if your foot's on the gas, you're going, going, going, you're burning through your neurotransmitters, that's the fuel. Right. So dopamine, acetylcholine, GABA, uh serotonin, oxytocin, all these like feel-good hormones are getting depleted faster because your foot's on the gas. So if we are not slowing down, giving ourselves like nutrition to replace those neurotransmitters, that's why making sure we eat well is so important too, then our brain is not going to be able to keep functioning and we'll keep feeling that way. That's where um that's where medication can be helpful for people who need help getting out of it. If like their serotonin is is so shot, doesn't mean you have to be on medication forever, but sometimes we Need a little help getting us back to uh at least the bare minimum so that we can reach out and connect to others.

SPEAKER_02 22:10

Interesting. Yeah. Interesting. Yeah. Um well I g let so let let's shift a little bit. So I'm thinking like, you know, we we when we started the conversation, it was also to go to really start in the direction of uh parents and kids and all that stuff. And um ironically, through this conversation, it's almost like obvious that if you're a parent and you have kids, it's almost like you have a a built-in play date whenever you want. Absolutely. But I'm pretty sure most parents out there, that's the last thing that they're thinking because they're they're again they're stuck in the day-to-day routines, and on top of that, they're raising a child that they're wanting to make sure that there's discipline there, that they're doing their chores, that they're doing their thing, that they're being so that is how do you uh what what do we tell parents uh when it relates to the thing? How to navigate all this? Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 22:58

I mean, this is where like one of like my core values, like we had Dan last time, uh core values are are huge of not just running a business, but who we are as a person. And one of mine is just be a fucking person, is like a huge value of mine. So I think about like for myself and my husband, we're very I'm very grateful because I have my own company. I don't have to, you know, ask a boss or someone to leave early because I want to get my kids. Um, but I think that if you know these bigger companies remember to be a fucking person, that's huge. Because I don't think that um someone should be I understand their structure, we all need structure and stuff, but leave room for the conversation. So if someone has to take a ton of time off all the time because they have a sick kid, okay, let's figure out let's let's figure out a conversation that so the company doesn't suffer, but you don't suffer either. How do we figure this out together? Whether that's going on family leave or something, so that you don't have to worry about losing your job. There are things that can help, but everybody lives in fear. We're all afraid of getting in trouble. We're all instead of just let's just have a conversation.

SPEAKER_02 24:12

Well, society is taught us that though.

SPEAKER_03 24:14

Yep.

SPEAKER_02 24:14

So how do you punitive? Yeah. So how do we fight against that that very thing that especially if you're an adult and you know you you've learned through society and through your life through society that you know, if if you step out of line or if you don't do that, it it's gonna be either wrong, you're gonna be punished for it, or it's just it's just not the time and the place or whatever it is.

SPEAKER_03 24:38

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 24:39

You're fighting that every day.

SPEAKER_03 24:41

Every day. Every day. That's why I'm all about being transparent. And like some people might call it over-explaining. I for me can tell the difference when it's over-explaining is to me more like, oh, I need that person to understand me, I need them to like me versus I'm being transparent so that you can, I'm being vulnerable. This is what's going on with me, and I'm not trying to affect any outcome. I'm just giving you the full story of what's going on with me, giving you the context so you can understand this is where I'm at, and maybe we can have a mutual conversation together.

SPEAKER_02 25:17

By the way, is fun always I I don't want to, I don't know if this is bringing it back or not, but is fun always seen as a physical or a uh brain kind of game type of thing? Or are other things because I'm I was I was thinking about like where do adults usually seek fun? And more often than not.

SPEAKER_03 25:36

Just say it a few weeks ago. So much fun.

SPEAKER_02 25:40

That is the norm. But when when you think of adults when they're like, oh, let's go have fun, the very first thing that comes out to mind is like, oh, let's go out. Let's go night on the town, let's go to the bar, let's drink. Right. And all of a sudden now you're engaging in things, although you may be having a good time because you are socializing. Right. So that aspect is there. Right. But you're now engaging in a whole bunch of things that are detrimental to your body, exactly. To your brain. Exactly. We're almost like not we're not really understanding the root of fun.

SPEAKER_03 26:08

Right.

SPEAKER_02 26:09

We're going to do it.

SPEAKER_03 26:09

Fun doesn't have to mean substances. Fun doesn't have to mean alcohol or like these things that give you a false sense of feeling good. A lot of times, like you know, I always say people don't get exit addicted to substances or drinking, they get addicted to what function that substance serves. So for a lot of people who need to drink in social settings, it's probably not everybody, but it maybe it's calming social anxiety or something. But if we never expose ourselves to that anxious feeling, we're never gonna work through it and then actually learn a connection with another person. Oh, you get anxious too, like in social settings. Yeah, and then you, oh my god, someone gets me. And now I have a connection with somebody and we build on that. But we have to be uncomfortable. We're never going to heal if we don't go outside of our comfort zone. And that's where, you know, yes, society speaking, there's always commercials about like, oh, look, people are at like a they're on a beach and they're all drinking this tequila and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. I'm not saying drinking is bad. It's just know the function that it serves for you before you do it. Like for me, like I will have a cocktail and I always will say, like, what function is the serving first? If it's just, I just want it to like socially, great. I will never drink if I'm stressed out because I don't ever want my brain to make that connection that stress equals this and create that association that this is how you alleviate stress. I won't do that. So that's a very big distinction for me where I don't want because that's how addictions start is oh, this helped me actually feel better. And that's you know, a dangerous thing.

SPEAKER_02 27:56

Right, right. Um, what type of a vacationer are you?

SPEAKER_03 28:02

Ooh, that's a good question. A type of vacationer? I hate cruises.

SPEAKER_02 28:08

Well, okay, hold on. Let me let me rephrase, hold on, let me rephrase before we go down to crazy like that. Are you the type I'm gonna give you two choices? Yep. And I guess if there's a third, you can throw it out there. Are you the type of vacationer that likes to relax, sunbathe, just be still? Yep. Or are you the type of vacationer that seeks exploration, seeks movement, seeks doing things? Yep. And if there's a third, you can Yep.

SPEAKER_03 28:32

And this is why I hate cruises, because as soon as you get on, there's stuff to do. Blah blah blah, blah, blah. And you you feel like you're always on a clock. I hate that. I'm the type of vacationer where I need depends on how much time I have. Because of the way my life is and my husband, we're both two entrepreneurs. We go, go, go, go, go. So we know we need at least a day and a half to settle in. And that's like not doing anything, just chilling out, like when we go away, just the two of us without the kids, we will literally the first night order room service and just stay in. Um, because I do like to do the adventure-seeking stuff. I'm not a big outdoorsy person.

SPEAKER_02 29:11

Um so you don't go hiking the mountains.

SPEAKER_03 29:16

I don't love how like my best friend lives in Colorado, and the running joke is the first time I went to visit her was when she had hip surgery. And I was like, Well, good. I'm I want to come see you when you're not mobile.

SPEAKER_00 29:25

When you're in the hospital and I don't have to move out.

SPEAKER_03 29:27

Right. She was on, I stayed with her for a week to like help her kind of with the surgery, and I was like, Yeah, because I don't want to go. You're she goes camping and stuff, and I'm like, oh God, like too much.

SPEAKER_02 29:36

Like camping is the best, first of all. I would probably you are one with nature.

SPEAKER_03 29:41

That I would probably love. It's the like the anticipatory anxiety for me of like, do I need to pack anything? Of like the false belief that you need stuff.

SPEAKER_02 29:55

So a thousand years ago when all the stuff didn't even exist.

SPEAKER_03 29:59

No one needed anything.

SPEAKER_02 30:00

They made it, right?

SPEAKER_03 30:01

Exactly. And that's what I tell myself now when my bag is huge when I'm leaving the house, and I go, I'm not gonna use any of this. And I take it out. The only thing I'll probably bring is a diaper for my daughter. Like, but yeah, like the um camping I probably like would like.

SPEAKER_02 30:17

Um you you kind of give me the glamping type uh vibe.

SPEAKER_03 30:21

I would enjoy a good glamping.

SPEAKER_02 30:23

It has to be a bed.

SPEAKER_03 30:24

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 30:24

Maybe some doors actually close. It could be like a camper type camping. Yep. I don't know if you're gonna rough it out there on a sleeping sack on a phone.

SPEAKER_03 30:33

My thing is like the heat. So I can do stuff if it's not deathly hot. Oh, yeah. But I have a hard time with like with the humidity, and then it's tough. That's the part that's hard. Um, but usually like outside, like, you know, I do like my mom lives in Yorktown. I like to go like um, we've gone hiking up there with her. Um but when it comes to vacation, I do like to explore and I need time to settle in too.

SPEAKER_02 30:58

So if you had to give a percentage of of the two, which like where do you fall in the kids or not?

SPEAKER_03 31:04

Because it's two different things.

SPEAKER_02 31:05

So give me both. Well, actually, don't give me with the kids because kids is kids, you're on a vacation. Right.

SPEAKER_03 31:11

That's the running joke. When you when my friend Josephine always says, when you go with your kids, it's parenting in another location. Yes, right. It's not a vacation. And she's so right.

SPEAKER_02 31:20

And even worse, because now you got you since you're on vacation, yeah, you have to make sure the entertainment factor is always that um, a hundred percent to make sure that there's like stuff for them to do.

SPEAKER_03 31:29

And it's real like, and when you do stuff with your kids, it's not about you in the best way possible. Because it shouldn't be about you. It should be about both of you guys in the sense of okay, you're doing something together, but you also, you know, have to it's okay to let your kids have interests and and engage them in it and get curious about what they're interested in, even if it's not your thing.

SPEAKER_02 31:53

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 31:53

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 31:54

So percentages, give me.

SPEAKER_03 31:56

So I would say I'm thinking back to like when my husband and I have gone away.

SPEAKER_02 31:59

Yes, and it's just you two.

SPEAKER_03 32:00

So I we we get the probably 60% rest, 40% adventure.

SPEAKER_02 32:04

Cool. Nice.

SPEAKER_03 32:04

Yeah. Cause we did when we went to Jamaica years ago, we um one of the guides there like took us to this like uh island, like you know, off the beaten path, and we got to like go to this like waterfall that no one gets to see. We took the picture so cool. Yeah, that's like um that's I love traveling like that. Our next big like trip that we want to do is um I'm Sicilian. We want to go to Sicily, but I don't want to stay at like this big resort, whatever.

SPEAKER_01 32:32

I want to stay or local.

SPEAKER_03 32:35

My aunt's from Sicily, so I want to stay like in her family's home and like kind of you know live how you know everyone there. So hold on.

SPEAKER_02 32:45

I was gonna chime in something else, but I hope you're ready for the heat.

SPEAKER_03 32:49

Yeah, I know. I hope you're ready.

SPEAKER_02 32:51

I hope you're ready for no ACs.

SPEAKER_03 32:53

I know that's a hard one for me.

SPEAKER_02 32:55

And I'm only saying all this because of what you just said seconds ago that you don't cope well with that stuff. Yep. The only good thing is that because it's in the Mediterranean and the weather is amazing, the breeze. So, but I mean it is going to be hot, and they're in in Europe, ACs are not as common as they are in the United States. Yes, you know, it's a it's a hit or miss. It's totally going to people's houses, fans and wind open windows, it's the way that they cool down.

SPEAKER_03 33:17

Yep. But eventually I think you would you habituate, right? Yeah, you get used to it.

SPEAKER_02 33:22

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 33:22

That was like uh my husband and I did um an African safari. Oh I think everyone should have the means to do it once in their lifetime because nothing gets you back to like nature and what it's really about than that experience. I mean, it's and we were in South Africa, so like there was no air conditioner, things like that, but it was magical. Magical. We got up at 5 a.m. every morning to do the first round. I didn't mind getting up that early. I love mornings anyway. Um, and then you have like the middle of the day where you can just um hang out around like the the area, like you see the monkeys kind of like climbing around, and then you do another evening tour, and it was so cool.

SPEAKER_02 34:06

I mean, that sounds not only amazing. Yeah, so we'll be going together soon.

SPEAKER_03 34:10

I would love that. I would love that.

SPEAKER_02 34:12

So the reason I brought up the whole vacationing thing, yeah, and this is gonna be, I think this is gonna, you're gonna be like, oh ding. Yep. It's it's gonna be very indicative, I think, of my personality and even some of the conversations that I'm striking up, right? When it comes to like what kind of a vacationer I am, I am probably in the 80th to 90th percentile of exploration, activities, action. That's all I want to do. Yep. And it's ironic because my wife is the complete opposite. She wants to go and lay and sunbathe and and you know, just burn, I guess, like sizzle, like a bacon. Cook. Yeah, yeah. You know, and and you know, throughout the years that we've been together, it's always been like learning each other, mitigating each other, and understanding a good balance. Um, and I gotta be honest, I think I've been winning because I just I get very antsy, like if I go to a resort and we just have to sit there. I try, and I will, and I'll I'll do my best to give her a couple of days that we just sit in the sun and sit in the by the pool. But even then, I'm struggling. Like I'm like, I remember our very first vacation ever. This is like over 15 years ago, I think. This is a long time now. Yeah, and I don't know, don't tell me how this came about. But we went to DR. Okay. We went to an all-inclusive resort, and you know, our being our first trip, I don't even know how long we were into dating. Maybe we were dating maybe like a year at that point. I don't know. This is a newer year. Yeah, very new. So, and I'm like, every day I want to have like an activity. And we went on an activity on an excursion every single day. We were there.

SPEAKER_03 35:42

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 35:43

And that's when we understood, that's when I learned that she likes the pool and sunbathed.

SPEAKER_03 35:47

Yeah, she's like, oh my god, like uh, like all we're doing. Right.

SPEAKER_02 35:50

Like so, I'm the kind of guy that comes back from a vacation and I need to rest because I've been all over the place. But my happiness, like if you took remember the uh the little um gauge or whatever, it is at an all-time high. Because that's where I like probably get my energy back. I may be physically tired because you've done a lot, right? But I mean, when from the happy meter, it's I gotta, you know, because I I just love being active, which is weird because that is as much as I love that, it's not in my everyday routine. And this is where I want to kind of allude to like to bring it full circle.

SPEAKER_03 36:27

I had a client that years ago that once said and always stuck with me, movement is magic. And it's so true. We are hardwired, we're supposed to move. That's where mobilizing energy, you know, we call it fight or flight, anxiety or anger, but if we just call it mobilization, it's healthy. It gets us to move, it gets us to go toward something, right? Like that's where like a postpartum anxiety is mobilization to care, to take care of the baby. And it's a good thing. And it's it's the balance, right? So it's hearing you and your wife is you know, you're 80 or 90 and she's lower. You guys probably both needed that balance. Like you need to learn how to slow down a little bit, and she needs to learn how to rev up a little bit, and that's yeah why you guys work.

SPEAKER_02 37:14

Yeah, and I'll tell you, like, even like now, our whenever we go away now, and I'm way more mindful now. Like I understand that she that that that's needed.

SPEAKER_00 37:22

Yep.

SPEAKER_02 37:23

And she's so she's awesome. She's so mindful of indulging me. Yeah, yeah, and going with me to wherever we go. Um, because it's almost like that's that that's I don't know, for me is so needed, especially if I'm gonna go away. Like, I you know what I mean. Like I need it, you know. Yeah, um, but it's been yeah, it's been a discovery journey of how uncomfortable do you get when you have to sit still? Pretty uncomfortable, you know. Like I like to so our last trip, we went to Aruba.

SPEAKER_03 37:51

Oh god, one of my favorite places in the world.

SPEAKER_02 37:53

First time. Oh my gosh. Loved it.

SPEAKER_03 37:55

One happy island.

SPEAKER_02 37:56

I was very happy there. Yeah. However, for the days that we went, um, we did a lot of sunbathing and a lot of stillness.

SPEAKER_00 38:06

Yep.

SPEAKER_02 38:06

And I can't tell you, like, it was a little bit in agony. And you know, in the moments I really try to, you know, w we're at the beach, we're by the beautiful water, beautiful. Yeah, I mean, there's nothing more beautiful than Aruba. It's gorgeous.

SPEAKER_03 38:21

And it's outside the hurricane belt, the weather's always good. Perfect, right? Yep. Where'd you guys stay?

SPEAKER_02 38:25

Um, oh my God. Divi? The Divi? Does that ring a bell?

SPEAKER_03 38:30

No.

SPEAKER_02 38:30

I'll show it to you on the map after because I don't know exactly. This is my first time. I'm not a pro either. So it's so great. But I don't think there's a bad thing.

SPEAKER_03 38:36

There's no there's no bad place in Aruba. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 38:39

So, you know, a lot of the days, majority of the days, probably 90% of the days, we were just kind of sunbathing, chilling, doing nothing. Yeah, the resort, the all-inclusive, the this, the that. And it's cool.

SPEAKER_00 38:50

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 38:50

But all I wanted, and I had done it before we even left, I scheduled a little excursion because I needed one. And I'm tight.

SPEAKER_03 38:56

It's also like a jungle where it's cool to explore.

SPEAKER_02 38:59

Well, let me tell you, like, we took this like UT, it's called a UTV tour. Yep. Which you get on this little car and you literally drive through the island's small. So you drive in this little vehicle throughout like the mountain through the mountainous or like the beach side, like all the I was happier than a pig in shit. Yep. This was like the most amazing moment that I will, I think for the rest of my life I will remember. And it was all day out there. We were dirty, full of dust. It was the probably for people that don't like dirt. Yeah. Very uncomfortable. Because it's this this UTV thing is completely open. It's yeah, I think. So it's just, and you're in a line of like maybe like 20 cars. Yep. So you're gonna get dusting. You they literally give you like a mask and goggles because when you when you are done driving, you pull that down, and everything else is brown.

SPEAKER_03 39:43

Yeah, yeah. My my nephew did it last year too. It's amazing.

SPEAKER_02 39:46

It is awesome. And not to mention, you see beautiful things, and that's kind of like what gets me excited. That's what kind of like fills my my you know, my jar with like happiness pills or dopamine or whatever. This is those kind of experiences. Yeah, but yeah, but it's it was a it was a struggle to get to that because all the other like I need like if it were my way every single day, we would have gone to a different like exploration, whether it was into town to look at things or a little that they had so many different things. I mean, you've seen you can get a lot of things.

SPEAKER_03 40:14

Yeah, there's amazing things there, yeah. It also just shows because I'm holding here like what I know about you, and it also shows where it doesn't need to be a bad thing. So you've shared with me before you moved a lot. I did since you were small, right? And yes, that makes you feel like you just always moving, always moving. And yes, it's you want to take breaks and stuff too, but the benefit of that is also that it makes you want to continue to explore.

SPEAKER_02 40:40

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 40:41

So we can really look at anything as like a light side or a dark side or just is, right?

SPEAKER_02 40:46

In all fairness, I've been pretty still since the last big move. Yeah. So I you're right. I moved a whole lot in in a very short span of time, like five years or so. And then after that last whatever faraway trip, we've been pretty still for the better part now of half my life in the same place with the same people. This you know what I mean?

SPEAKER_00 41:07

Yep.

SPEAKER_02 41:08

Um, so it's it's kind of ironic. Uh, but I do like, yeah, I I love the exploration. Like it's it's to me, it's like it's what fuels.

SPEAKER_03 41:16

Think about like how like the how America was discovered. It's like someone had that itch to go look.

SPEAKER_02 41:21

Like, yeah, that's how I play. That's that's my version of playing. So when you're like, oh, so when you're and I guess to bring all this full circle, right? So how do we adults play and understanding how play is, and not to say you have to go out on vacation every time and do this, because if not, you'll have one play day per year or maybe two if you're lucky, you know? Yeah, um, but it's understanding that you need to find what's what fuels you and try and do that more for you.

SPEAKER_03 41:44

And you can make anything play, yeah, right? I can I make anything a game, like especially I think having small kids, you kind of have to to get them to do boring shit. Um, so it's like you have to trick them into thinking it's a game. But you can make anything this is a game, but this is where mindfulness is a beautiful strategy. Where you know, whenever I say mindfulness, I always tell people you're not sitting there like this, oh mmm, like meditating. Like mindfulness is anything that you take your five senses into what you're doing, right? Sight, smell, taste, sound, touch. So that means that you're you're fully here, you're fully present, and you make it a game. Like, you know, when I make my husband's lunch every Sunday, uh Monday sometimes when Sundays get nuts, but every week I make him like 16,000 pounds of chicken and like um and either couscous or rice, whatever. But I make it almost like a game of sometimes I'll like see like, oh, can I um let's see how fast I can get this done, um, which helps me kind of mobilize anyway. Or I'll say, like, oh, like maybe I'll like make one chicken this way and make it the other. And I make it different as a way to just I love cooking as a way to like explore. Um, and sometimes I'll, you know, sneak different things in there that I know he doesn't like, but to try to get him to eat it. That's right.

SPEAKER_00 43:05

That is fine.

SPEAKER_03 43:06

But you can make anything a game, anything play when you're exploring, right?

SPEAKER_02 43:13

Yeah, you know what's funny? I've noticed that when at least for me, and I and I've also realized not everyone kind of thinks the same way I do, but like even in when you're doing these things that are work, yeah, but you're making it a game, yeah. You are also tapping into parts of your brain that are, at least for me, like the creative side of me.

unknown 43:32

Yes.

SPEAKER_02 43:32

And when the creative side of me gets like touched and like sparked, and then those kind of that's another time that I start feeling those very like happy moments. 100% because it's it's it's almost like that is not always operational because again, we're always doing the thing that we don't like to do as adults, which is adulting. Yep, and then when you tap into that, it's like like freedom. Yes, it's like freedom because you your your mind is just going in whatever creative direction it wants, yes, you get that freedom to.

SPEAKER_03 44:00

Go nuts, right? Like when whenever we do um like business planning or anything, like Dan, uh my US coach, I he knows I have to walk around the room. I can't sit still. Because if I need to really think and be creative and start like I need to move around. That's just how my brain works. I'm wired that way. That's why I get my best ideas when I'm working out. Like it's anytime like my body is moving, that's when things flow. That's why I don't really like sitting still either. I have a standing desk in my office sometimes. That's when I used to work with little kids. Why I loved it because we were on the floor, we were doing games. Like it was more moving around. Yeah. Yeah. That's why I love being a mom. You know, even though my kids will make me very tired at times. Um, but I always bring happiness. They bring so much happiness, and I always You know who agrees with that statement? What's that? Oh, Hammy. Oh, Hammy. I keep forgetting. I'm so sorry. I'm not talking too directly, my little blue friend. But this is the perfect example, right? Like my son was like, mommy, you should bring Hammy to your podcast today. And I was like, that is hilarious. Let me do it. Like, and this is me playing, right? Like, I'm like walking this morning, I look at Claudia and I'm like, You're gonna think I'm nuts, but here's this hamster, and we need to put him on the show today.

SPEAKER_02 45:15

Well, I will say, you can your energy was contagious because you know when you first walked in and you saw I'm pretty sure you saw my face, and you're like, Oh, this guy's death. We need to wake him up.

SPEAKER_03 45:24

Oh, you have to retire the weekend.

SPEAKER_02 45:27

But I will tell you, your energy is super contagious. So we I got I I stepped up. I stepped up and I was like, you know what? Let's play. And and it wasn't even like I was even thinking of it. I think sometimes having that good positive energy kind of forces you into these spaces.

SPEAKER_03 45:41

Yeah, and then you send you editing all weekend, right? So you're like on a computer, which is not really it's interactive, but it's not interact, it's not other mirror neurons.

SPEAKER_02 45:49

Only uh interacting with Apple. Exactly.

SPEAKER_03 45:52

So you're just like I know like when days when I'm on the computer, like Friday, I was on the computer all day. I feel like shit by the end of the day.

SPEAKER_01 45:59

Yeah, it's tough.

SPEAKER_03 46:00

I felt awful.

SPEAKER_02 46:01

It's tough, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 46:01

Because I like I almost feel like like, oh, I don't know. Like I'm like shaky because I'm I've been kind of like in that gear for too long. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 46:09

Your eyes get tired, your brain gets tired, yeah, but your body is not.

SPEAKER_03 46:13

Exactly. You want to jump around. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 46:15

You have like this pent-up energy that's what I was telling before. Yeah. It's like anxious energy because it's like it wants to do something, but it's like, but this is all shutting down.

SPEAKER_03 46:23

Exactly. That's why, like my son, he loves his iPad, and I put like that whatever screen thing is. So after an hour, it it shuts off because I noticed the pattern. He was on it for too long, he started getting nuts.

SPEAKER_00 46:34

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 46:35

Because he was he he's not meant to be my son, he's not a still kid, he's his mother, he's wired just like me. He needs to move around. So I know when he's doing schoolwork and stuff, he has to stand up. I'm okay with that. But again, going back to like supporting parents and stuff in like school settings and stuff, is why is our education system like not supporting the individual learner? We're trying to make everybody fit one learning style. Like I could talk about we'll maybe have another episode about that because that is a big huge issue of mine. Um but yeah, he needs to move around. And yeah, we all do that way. Like your brain is not supposed to like go, go, go, go, go, but the body doesn't move at all. We need a balance of both.

SPEAKER_02 47:18

What do you tell the uh, you know, the early 20-year-old uh Dana and Claudia, which was like last year or two years ago?

SPEAKER_03 47:26

Like, yeah, like turning 40 in two weeks.

SPEAKER_02 47:29

Shit, why are we doing that? We're not we're not putting numbers out there, Dana. What's wrong with you?

SPEAKER_03 47:33

I don't mind.

SPEAKER_02 47:33

I'm not me. I'm in my mid-20s.

SPEAKER_03 47:37

I'm like, you know, the movie liar, liar, and he's like, I can't lie. That's me.

SPEAKER_02 47:41

It's a problem. I'm yeah, I'm lying to myself. What do we tell like those the young those young people as far as like starting to build habits then today, right? Yeah. That will hopefully keep them engaged and having fun and play and as as adulting starts becoming more real.

SPEAKER_03 48:04

My advice to 20-somethings, I keep thinking of my husband.

SPEAKER_02 48:08

F the job and just have fun.

SPEAKER_03 48:10

I was gonna say have fun. Just have fun. So my husband, God bless him, started his own company at 18 years old. Wow. And he, you know, he grew up in a one-bedroom apartment, came from nothing.

SPEAKER_02 48:22

Same business that is today?

SPEAKER_03 48:23

Same business today. Yep. That is owns the Remax Distinguished Homes and Properties in Takahoe, New York.

SPEAKER_00 48:28

Wow, wow, wow.

SPEAKER_03 48:29

But he he knew what it was like to have nothing. And so that drive, that mobilization was so strong. And then when we met, it was, you know, he wanted to go do these things and go whatever and go here, which I was totally okay with, but I was also like, I've done all this already. I lived my 20s. I like went out into the city with my friends and stuff, happy to keep doing it with him. But he had such a strong craving for it because he didn't get it. And so, yes, he's able to get it now, and uh our relationship supports that. And it's, you know, when you're in your 20s, have fun. Make the bad decisions, right? That's how we learn from them. Like I tell my niece all the time she's in her 20s, and I'm like, go like, go have fun, go out with your friends, be silly and stupid, always be safe. I always say always be safe.

SPEAKER_02 49:19

Don't be, you know, no decisions are long term, exactly.

SPEAKER_03 49:22

But like, don't have this pressure on yourself where you know you have to be perfect. Nobody ever figured out how to live life by acting perfectly. Nobody did. You know, and not for nothing. Like, I I had a lot of fun in my teens and my twenties, and I'm really glad that I didn't listen to my mom all the time because those experiences helped me be who I am today. And I learned from them. And that's why I like going back to parenting, we have to let our kids fail. Yeah. If we don't let our kids fail, they're not gonna learn, they're never gonna learn.

unknown 49:56

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 49:57

Ever.

SPEAKER_02 49:58

Something you said kind of hit me and hit me on a reverse. You said uh your husband all of a sudden got the craving for doing the things that he was not able to do then because he was so wrapped up in that. And it hit me because I was thinking about I was trying, I was relating it to me. That's kind of how my brain operates. I do not know. That's how everybody's brain operates. I just don't want your normal. I don't want it to feel like it's I'm being selfish or just about me, me, me, me, me, me.

SPEAKER_03 50:20

That was you judging yourself, my dear. Yep, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 50:22

Sort of accurate. But hopefully, you know. All right, so I I thought of it because I I remember somewhat vividly, right? The time where I stopped movement, right? And I stopped movement very much intentionally, very much on purpose, because I never had that stillness. So, and what I mean by all this is like from child as I started growing up and with sports, very active, always practicing, always playing, and I did a lot of that, a lot of just exercise of that nature through college and even a little bit after college. I mean, after college it wasn't as intense because now it's kind of like on your own, you know. Right. But it got to the point, and it I got I made it to like my 30s, my mid-30s. Oh, wait, I was supposed to be 25.

SPEAKER_03 51:16

Oh, that's right. No, he makes his mid-20s. Fine, 35. I'm 36. I'm 36 today.

SPEAKER_02 51:21

Um, my mid-30s, that I was like, I I I kind of crave not having to work out. I crave not having to go to practice, I crave not having to be tired or sore all the time.

SPEAKER_00 51:35

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 51:35

And it's almost like I purposely put myself in that, like, I'm gonna give myself a break, yeah, not play anything, and I kind of stopped almost like cold turkey for the pretty cold turkey, just any kind of exercise activity that I was doing. And the bad thing in that, at least for me, I don't know how your husband thing turned out. I don't know if he's still out there partying or not. No, I mean he's you've tamed the he's he helps me have fun.

SPEAKER_03 52:00

Yeah, that's awesome.

SPEAKER_02 52:01

Yeah, um I took I think I took too long of a break that now it's it's not part of me anymore. I struggle to like get myself doing things or going or it's still part of you, and you just can't find that part of you.

SPEAKER_03 52:12

It's a little lost.

SPEAKER_02 52:13

Well, I've focused a lot of my of my attention to the nonsense of adulting, and I've completely ignored that side that I mean one was my identity for the longest.

SPEAKER_03 52:24

What happens when you ignore a little kid?

SPEAKER_02 52:27

They seek attention.

SPEAKER_03 52:28

They seek connection, right? That's like what we started with this whole conversation. They seek connection. Yes. Yeah. I always reframe the attention seeking as connection seeking.

SPEAKER_02 52:37

Connection seeking.

SPEAKER_03 52:38

Yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 52:39

So I just I don't know. I I don't know if that makes any sense to you or not, but that is something that as you were talking about. Like, you know.

SPEAKER_03 52:45

Yeah, like it was something that you did love, but too much of a good thing is still too much. And it's still like that's why like some people who like work out two times a day, that's not healthy. It's too much all at once. Balance, right? Because then yeah, that all of a sudden it's you never like eat something and you eat it so much, you're like, oh, I don't want that anymore ever again. Like it's it's the same thing where it's like you wanna if you wanna still love it, balance it. Don't like go all in where um you don't give yourself time for other things too. You know, that's where like even athletes like they'll like do ballet to do like instead of like football nonstop, that helps their game, but it also like helps their brain doing something a little different, which is slower, it's not as like high impact.

SPEAKER_02 53:35

Yeah. That's interesting. Yeah. Yeah, I that that's that kind of hit me like a little bit of a time of break. I was like, oh wait, that that that sounds like something.

SPEAKER_03 53:43

Yeah, it's just like learning how to reconnect with those parts of ourself that love something. Or ask like, do you still love it? You know, think about kids, kids change their interests. Like my son, like every two years there's like a new theme that he's into. And if the that kid changes their mind, that's okay. You're allowed to change your mind. If you're like, oh, I don't love this anymore, well, maybe you just don't like it anymore. It doesn't matter.

SPEAKER_02 54:07

Well, I'll tell you this. I definitely don't love like the amount of running that I that I did, that I had to do. I hate running. So there's certain part no, I was like practices. I was a game kind of guy, not practice kind of guy. Yep. Um, but um, you know, I think I realize that even if I want it, I like I still love my sports, I still love watching them. I like messing around every now and then, but it's not like I don't want to play those things again. So I've noticed, kind of to go to your point, I've found other like I made the reference about pickable.

SPEAKER_00 54:38

Yep.

SPEAKER_02 54:38

Pickable is a very easy, at least for me, very easy sport. Yeah. That's low impact. It's not crazy on the on the you're not running all over the court. The court's pretty small and I'm pretty big, so I can even my wingspan alone like covers most of the space.

SPEAKER_00 54:52

Right.

SPEAKER_02 54:53

So it's I've almost like adjusted what I like. It's still a sport. I'm still gonna sweat like like an animal, and I'm moving, but that's kind of like where I've like, you know, I'm not trying to play soccer anymore and run all over the field like you know four, five months.

SPEAKER_03 55:06

I did it one year. Hated it.

SPEAKER_02 55:08

Too much running. It's a lot of running, right? It's too much running. The majority of it's running, you know?

SPEAKER_03 55:12

Yeah, and that's not I'm not but like I actually learned about like um fast twitch muscles and slow twitch muscles, and we're we each have a genetic predisposition. And then when I got my results, I was like, oh, that's why I hate running. I I'm not, I don't, I don't have the I forget which one it is, but like the muscles that make you more prone for like endurance. I'm not an endurance athlete.

SPEAKER_02 55:30

Yeah, no, neither am I.

SPEAKER_03 55:31

I am not, yeah. I'm better at like um things that are movements, short bursts of intensity.

SPEAKER_02 55:36

You know what's funny, ironically, that's that's the kind of athlete I was. I was not like uh I did not run long distance, which for soccer sometimes that's at least how you practice. You do a lot of long distance running.

SPEAKER_00 55:45

Right.

SPEAKER_02 55:46

But I sound horrible. It's awful. Especially if you're not a runner. It's it's awful. Yep. But anything that was like small sided games, short games, short sprints, like that kind of stuff, yeah. That's where I thrived because it was that's kind of like the very that's what I like, the very quick movements, short movements.

SPEAKER_03 56:04

Yeah, yeah, short bursts of intensity and then moments of recovery.

SPEAKER_02 56:08

Yeah, which is probably why I like the pickleball now that I'm thinking of it, because that's again, you're not doing anything long distance there.

SPEAKER_03 56:13

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 56:13

You're literally standing and they're very short movements, but very fast.

SPEAKER_03 56:16

Yep. Yeah. My attention span, I could I can't like running for like four miles, I get so bored.

SPEAKER_02 56:22

Yeah, no, that wasn't it.

SPEAKER_03 56:23

I just can't like now what? Now what? Now what? And that's why I like lifting. It's just more fun for me. Like I'd rather heavier the better, and then I can't think about anything else because I'm focused on how heavy it is.

SPEAKER_02 56:34

Hmm. Fun, fun, fun.

SPEAKER_03 56:36

Fun, fun, fun and all these things that we've been taught.

SPEAKER_02 56:38

And we've hit, I think, everything in the gamut.

SPEAKER_03 56:40

What about you, Hammy? Did we leave anything out?

SPEAKER_02 56:42

Well, I like to uh run around the floors and hide in under little couches, and that's how I get my exercise.

SPEAKER_03 56:48

Oh, so and he has his little hamster wheel.

SPEAKER_02 56:53

Literally running in the hamster wheel.

SPEAKER_03 56:56

Running in the hamster wheel. Always such a good combo, Claudio. I'm so glad. I love when we connect and chat.

SPEAKER_00 57:01

Love it, love it.

SPEAKER_03 57:02

Thank you everyone for being here and for listening. I know we'll we'll I'm sure talk about parenting and all those things much more throughout the episodes and seasons. But I'm glad that you stopped by and that you came to listen. If anyone has questions about anything, um you can always um drop us a message um through either my Instagram at the EMDR coach or through our website, um peaceful living mental health counseling.com. And stay tuned for the next episode, and we'll catch you on the next one. Thank you for listening to another episode of the Truth About Healing Podcast. If you know someone who's still stuck, share this episode with them. Because as you know, the truth can set them free. And if you're ready to get started to see what you need to repair, contact us at peacefulliving mental health counseling.com and we will get you started. Until next time, I'm Dana Coretta Stein, reminding you we repeat what we don't repair. This podcast is for informational purposes only and is not a substitute for professional mental health or medical advice. Listening does not create a therapist client relationship. If you need support, contact a licensed professional or your local emergency services.