Supply Chain Rockstars with Eric Rempel

This episode of Supply Chain Rockstars features Eric Rempel, Chief Innovation Officer at Redwood Logistics. Eric talks about his passion for music, how he got into the supply chain industry and his love of concerts and Sturgill Simpson.

Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:21

Welcome everyone to the Supply Chain Rock Stars with my co-host, Will Haraway. Will, how are you?

SPEAKER_01 0:29

What's up, Bart? What's up, Barton? What's up, everybody? It's the Supply Chain Rock Stars.

SPEAKER_00 0:33

Here we go. So excited, Will. We have so much going forward with music, with incredible guests, songs, you name it. This is obviously our first episode ever. So, Will, tell us a little bit about yourself, and then we're going to get into what this show is all about.

SPEAKER_01 0:53

Yeah, for sure. So I'm Will Haraway. I'm the co-founder of Lead Coverage with my partner Kara Brown. And we are the only exclusively focused in supply chain go-to-market agency or consultancy or whatever you want to call it. But we help supply chain companies with demand generation and awareness and analyst relations and public relations and everything that leads to filling up their pipeline. That is what we do at lead coverage here in Atlanta, Georgia. But beyond that, I'm a musician. I've been playing my entire life. I like to play live with uh my brother and a couple other fellows. We call ourselves the Sun Dogs, and we do a lot of uh just stuff around Atlanta, you know. And uh yeah, I'm I'm a I'm a fanatic about uh music and I'm a fanatic about supply chain. So it's a perfect fit for me. How about you, Bart? Tell us about your relationship to music.

SPEAKER_00 1:51

Yeah, I'm a fanatic about music as well, Will. And unlike you, I literally hung up the guitars as you see behind me, but started playing guitar at the age of uh eight, played some trumpet for a while as well, never played in the bando. I I ended up, or I started, I should say, by playing classical guitar, which is quite different because you play notes, not chords.

SPEAKER_01 2:12

You had to sit like this.

SPEAKER_00 2:13

Yeah, exactly. Which as a little kid with a big guitar, it's a little bit of a challenge. But then at college, I bought myself an amplifier, electric guitar, started and learning the chords, but very quickly after that, fell in love with the blues music, jazz music, realized that I kind of sucked up playing guitar. So I spent all my money going to concerts and playing records and not playing anymore. And to be honest, 30 years later now, I do regret that a little bit, but still traveled the world to go see shows. My favorite is probably the Royal Albert Hall, where I've probably seen Eric Clapton over 35 different times. So that's a little bit about my music passion, but my other passion is supply chain. And I'm an independent advisor industry expert, been in the industry almost three and a half decades. Don't let my young outlook fool you. Uh been in this industry for a very long time. Uh, in a couple of different roles. Obviously, starting my career in Europe. I'm Belgian by nature, uh, so big fan of Belgian music. Not going to get into that well because no one's gonna know the bands I'm gonna be talking about. But now been in the US for the last 23 years, work for companies in the US like PepsiCo. Uh, some people might know me from Gartner, where I was for eight years, two years at Project 44, and now the last two and a half years have been an independent advisor here in the industry. And so music is one of the things that brought us together. I think we first met each other actually when I was at Gartner, but obviously a big part that we always discuss is music. So uh we talked about kind of what got us into supply chain and music. Will tell us a little bit about the show and why we're really doing the show and what the show is all about.

SPEAKER_01 3:59

Well, like you said, we always relate to each other in this way, and we have for years. You'll tell me what shows you're going to, I'll tell you what shows I'm going to, just talk about music in general. It's always fun. But we also travel quite a bit and we visit with our other supply chain friends, and uh we talk to them, you know, when we're not talking business, we talk to them about music, right? And so it's a great opportunity to highlight some uh supply chain executives and experts and and friends of ours, right? Guys that we work with, guys that we've known for a number of years, and show a different side of them, something else that they're passionate about. And I think I think that the uh the audience is gonna find that pretty compelling because it it it it connect, like you've said before, music connects us all. It humanizes us in such a lovely way, so uh sympathetic, empathetic, whatever that you want to choose, right? And so uh, you know, you're gonna have a great, great time getting to know these guys in a in a different fashion.

SPEAKER_00 4:59

Yeah, I fully agree, right? And when I first started thinking about this and thinking about webinars that we're seeing all the time, because I know we do them for our clients and we see them online all the time. A lot of times it dehumanizes the supply chain and and it dehumanizes kind of overall in the sense that we seem to talk a lot about things like technology, right? AI is kind of one of the things that people always talk about. Um, it's a little bit different in music, right? It's not always about the most modern technology. We all love the old stuff, right?

SPEAKER_01 5:31

We like we like the retro stuff. I've got a retro telecaster back there. I know you've got you've got that Gretsch, beautiful Gretsch back behind you, and that's that's an older one you've you you told me about before. So yeah, everybody wants old amps and stuff from the 60s and 70s for sure. I know I do.

SPEAKER_00 5:48

Because it has that different feeling, that different look, that different feel. But the other part is what we really want to do in the show is really talk to the people. Because in supply chain, it's all about people, right? And that's why it's the people that make supply chain great. That's why we call it supply chain rock stars. These are people that really make our industry great. And so to put the people at the center of it, celebrate those people, we're going to not just talk about music and what's the background of music and the passion in the music, but it's the passion of the people in supply chain and what makes them tick as people. And I think, like you said, people can relate to music, but people can relate to other people as well. Now, that doesn't mean we cannot address other topics in the supply chain that are top of mind that are important, and we'll get to those as well. Now, talking about the music, Will, one of the things we also want to do is celebrate some great music and some of the songs that we like. So, Will, for this episode, what song did you pick and why did you pick that song?

SPEAKER_01 6:53

Yeah, well, I'm really just been obsessed with this song for the last couple of months, and it's called Javelin by Kevin Morby. And it hasn't even been released on an album yet. He just released it as a single. But I've been just if you looked at my Spotify, it would tell you how many times I've listened to it. It's it's it's quite a bit, but I like it because it's forward motion, it it talks about uh you know going down the highway like a javelin. And uh I just I love it so much, and uh that's what I wanted to share. You're always gonna be able to count on me to share a little off-beat stuff. Sometimes I'll go mainstream, but sometimes I'll go off beat. And this just this is the one when I looked at it, this is what I've been listening to. So that's awesome.

SPEAKER_00 7:42

I'll be very honest. I have not heard of either the artist or the song. So in a minute, we're gonna play a little bit off it. So I'm I'm very much looking forward to hearing it. And for me, it'll be the first time, and I'll probably might get obsessed about it as well, just like you. And we'll put it in the playlist because that's the other thing, right? Will we be creating for every episode with every show?

SPEAKER_01 8:01

We're gonna talk about a lot of stuff. Some of it you might know, some of it you might know well, but we're gonna put it in a Spotify playlist, and you're gonna be able to find it on our website, which is Bart www.supply chain rockstars.com. Yeah. So stuff will come up organically, and we'll go back and put it on there. And if you're curious, you can go check it out and listen to it during your work week or when you're working out or when you're driving your car or whatever you do.

SPEAKER_00 8:26

Yeah. So it'll be a cool thing. You you're in your car, you go, like, gonna listen to Bart and Will. And if I'm tired of Bart and Will, I'll switch to the Spotify and listen to some of the music that they're talking about. And some of it you will know because they're classics, and some of it will be brand new to you, just like Will Song today. So for this episode, my song, I was really thinking about it, and maybe I overthought it, but and maybe I took a little bit of an easy way out because I thought supply chain. So for me, it was really a word association. So supply chain, the chain, fleet with mat. I think it's a song that everyone knows. It's a classic. I think at the time that album, Rumors, is one of the still one of the most sold records ever. Uh so it's not a hidden secret, not a hidden jewel like like your song. But and obviously it has nothing to do with supply chain, but just the word the chain made me think. And just like in supply chain, the chain is a lot of things. I think in supply chain, not everything is that well connected in the sense of we still see these very siloed functions in supply chain. But as people, it is a chain because I always say supply chain is like the world's largest small family. We're all networked, we're all connected together. That's another thing we want to bring to the show and with the show is for people to connect, connect with the music and connect to each other.

SPEAKER_01 9:50

Okay, you want to listen to some uh javelin real quick? Let's bring it on, Will. All right, let's do it, my friend. Here we go.

SPEAKER_02 10:03

At least not yet. I am still happy to be breathing. You know I have been. You know I have been. Down the highway.

SPEAKER_01 10:28

Like I said, man, I've been all over that for months. I can't wait for the album to come out. But he's a great artist. He's got a bunch of albums. Really, really cool.

SPEAKER_00 10:36

Cool tune. It's one of those where Friday afternoon you had a busy week, you just sit back, relax, maybe get a little beer going or something like that, and just chill, right? Yeah, man.

SPEAKER_01 10:47

It's definitely a chill song.

SPEAKER_00 10:49

All right. Well, we're gonna do we want to play a little bit of the chain.

SPEAKER_01 10:52

Yeah, let's get the chain. Let's do it. The classic. Here we go.

SPEAKER_00 11:23

Now, obviously, the most important part of this whole show are our guests, our supply chain rock stars. And Will, who do we have on today?

SPEAKER_01 11:35

Yep, today we've got Eric Rimpel. He is the chief innovation officer at Redwood Logistics, a uh visionary 4PL in uh in the Magic Quadrant, just uh a very innovative company out of Chicago, Illinois. Been around for I want to say it's like 21 years, we'll we'll clarify with maybe 22 with Eric, as a matter of fact, when he joins. But he is uh brilliant guy and uh responsible for pretty much a lot of their innovative products and platforms, notably Redwood Connect. So we're gonna talk to him about that, and he is a big music guy. I've actually been to some shows with him, and uh he is very, very spiritual and uh fanatic about music and the things that he loves.

SPEAKER_00 12:23

Awesome. So without further ado, let's bring on Eric. Let's bring him on.

SPEAKER_01 12:33

Wake up to find out that you are what perfect, perfect intro music for our guest today, Eric Rempel, the Chief Innovation Officer at Redwood Logistics. Eric, how you doing, buddy?

SPEAKER_05 12:58

What's up, Will?

SPEAKER_01 12:59

How are you? Man, I'm doing good. Um I'm so glad you were able to join us. You're our first guest, so we're really excited to kick it off with someone that we know and that we know loves. Uh was I think you're pretty passionate about everything, but you're certainly passionate about music. So um, to start off with, you know, we know uh that we always ask our guests to bring a song. So uh what song did you bring us today and what does it mean to you?

SPEAKER_05 13:29

So I struggled with this. I mean, you throw this at me on a text, and you're like, what's your favorite song? And that's like asking your favorite kid, man. I mean, like, I it every genre, I I love everything. And I started with the dead, I moved into Goose, I thought about my morning jacket. I grew up listening to like 90s hip-hop, and like I went all the way through everything. And um, you know, where I kind of landed, um, and maybe it's just how I'm feeling right now, and I feel like what I listen to, like everybody probably is a little bit aligned to how you're feeling in the moment. Um, but I ended up uh in in Sturgil Simpson land. Um, and I really first got into him. I remember it was probably like 15 years ago, and I was listening to music on my roof back when I lived in the city, and uh In Bloom came on, and it was you know his cover. Uh and a cover, yeah. It it blew my mind. Um, but you know, I'm older now and more gray hair and all that kind of stuff. And um, you know, I have two kids and I've got a son. And I remember I was at a concert of his uh a couple years ago over at the salt shed in Chicago, as an outdoor show, and he played uh Welcome to Earth um uh polywog, right? Like it's it's a song about having a son and what that did for him and changed him and got him to see. And he's like, if only I would have known this earlier in my life, how great this is, and would have done it earlier, yeah. Would have done it earlier, and so that for me is just like it's great, and it also starts slow and emotional, and then like a few minutes in, it just becomes this banger where, like, you know, they bring in the the brass, and it's it's it's so fun, and it's kind of like being a dad at first. You're like, oh my god, what is this? And then it becomes amazing, and then you know, then you remember like, hey, I'm still a person and I'm kind of uh you know, a kid at heart always, and yeah, like to have fun, and then I'm like, all right, keep it in between the lines, right? Um, which is on the same album, it's a sailor's guide to earth, and it's just like, hey, go have fun, go do stuff, but like, you know, I don't want to say straight and narrow, but you know, keep it in between the lines and don't mess up too much in one direction, and everything's gonna be all right, you know. And it's the advice to his son, uh, you know, as he gets older. And so I I and it's just Sturgil makes great music.

SPEAKER_00 15:55

So that's awesome, Eric, and that's good advice, not only for parents, but even for uh for people in business, right? Keep it between the lines. Now, I know you're based in Chicago, which to me, being from Europe uh and growing up and loving the blues, Chicago is the blues, right? I know I saw Buddy Guy for the first time in Chicago and so many uh other greats. So, what was kind of the role for you with music growing up? Uh, and then the question is besides listening to music, do you actively participate? You go to concerts, you play an instrument. Tell us a little bit about that, Eric.

SPEAKER_05 16:31

Um, yeah, so music for me growing up was um different than most, but not different than probably a lot of other first-generation uh Americans, right? So my family's from the former Soviet Union, um, you know, from a Soviet republic, uh uh Moldova, right? And came over here with my sister and you know, nothing in their pockets, right? Uh in the 1970s. And um, you know, I was born shortly thereafter, and you know, so it's classical music. You listen to classical music at home, you know, and um, you know, but certainly there was a lot of listening to the Beatles, right? As a kid, which was awesome. In Chicago, they had um they they it's moved a different station, but every Sunday morning was always breakfast with the Beatles. And um, you know, every Sunday morning, you know, my mom would put it on and we'd listen, you know, to that while while we ate breakfast as a family, and it was just this awesome Sunday tradition. Um, but for music and playing music, it was, you know, you're playing piano and you're gonna learn classical music, and I don't care if you like it or not. Um and sound so familiar. Yeah, and I did it, and I loved, I, I loved uh I loved it looking back now, but man, did I hate it as a kid. Uh and I had, you know, your typical uh Soviet, you know, this this Russian piano teacher who was amazing. Um, and actually I recently learned a bunch of people I know now also had her, and and she was fantastic, but very strict, right? Your your your your typical um journey, right, of of a strict piano teacher. And I hated and I quit, right? And I I complained so much and I quit. And it's one of the dumbest things I ever did. Um, because now I'm trying to get good at piano again over the last few years because it's so much fun. Uh, and I have a much greater appreciation for music than than I did when I was young, you know.

SPEAKER_01 18:27

Yeah, and you've even you've got a group that you put together, right? You got it some some some fellows you're playing with, a little band.

SPEAKER_05 18:34

Yeah, I know it's it's a strong word. It's uh my buddy Camilo, who who's kind of the the the ringleader, right? He calls it we're a band that does covers of covers of covers. Um, but you do so you would do in bloom the cover uh Sturgil's cover of Nirvana. Yeah, we'll try everything. We played Paul Cawthon for a while. I mean, like it it's it's whatever is fun, but yeah, exactly. Play uh covers of covers. Um, but yeah, it's fun and like it's it's good for the soul, it's good for the brain.

SPEAKER_00 19:04

Awesome. Now we talk a little bit about youth and music. Tell us a little bit about your career and how you ended up in supply chain because some of us maybe we didn't choose it or we didn't study it, and kind of miraculously found our way into this really, really cool industry. Eric, tell us a little bit about your career early on and how you got to where you are today.

SPEAKER_05 19:28

Yeah, uh, I am one of those, Bart. I am a um how the hell did I end up here kind of guy. Um, and then once you're in this space, you realize you love working on challenging moving problems. Um, so my background was um, you know, I studied engineering um and and math and stuff like that, and you know, focusing on like how to build chips and processors and all that kind of stuff, and I loved it. Um and graduated um shortly after 9-11, and so the job market wasn't great. Um also probably had you know a bit too much fun in college, right? So those two compounding uh items. Uh but I took a job, I found a job, you know, working in like this uh kind of more industrial and mechanical side of engineering, um, you know, building these these really neat machines. And anyways, it was it was fun work, but the company wasn't so fun and a whole bunch of reasons that that sucked. But I ended up um you know taking the GMAT getting ready to go to business school. And um uh when I was working at that company, I had a few, you know, high school friends that I knew that um you know were the original founders of Redwood. Um and I used them to move some of these machines that we had to move that we built across the country. Um and so, you know, I'm like you know, I got the call to hey, come come check out what we do. We you know, uh we'd we'd like some help. And the what they wanted help on was building a website, right? This is 2003, and um, you know, everyone's looking for a website, and you know, it was a it was a startup freight brokerage in Chicago. So I walked in and um, you know, speaking of music, I walk in and Chicago has a great radio station, um, you know, uh WXRT, right? And it's just like they just play great rock all the time. And I walk in and XRT is blasting, half the people aren't wearing shoes. Um, you know, there's rate confirmations falling out of a fax machine, you know, like the amount of chaos, wires hanging from the ceiling going down to desks. And I'm like, I don't know what this is, but I absolutely love it. You know, maybe it was part of the, you know, part of my brain that loves chaos and problems. And um, and it was really cool. And so I they showed me around. I had no idea what they did, or you know, I didn't know if they were a trucking company or what a brokerage was or anything of that nature. And it was just like the energy here is wild. And um and so I they're like, Hey, we have aspirations of building a TMS, you know, could you do this? And I d on a bunch of development stuff and you know, over the last several years. I'm like, yeah, I figure it out. Um, you know, not really knowing where this would go and thought I'd be there for a little bit and then make it my way back to business school. Um I'm still here, right? And I you fall into this and you just see problem after problem after problem that you can solve and the relationships that you build internally and with customers, and it just never stops. And I love it. Um and to your point, right? Like I didn't think anything of supply chain or logistics um until I just landed in it, you know, totally uh out of the blue.

SPEAKER_01 22:37

No, I get it, man. And uh having worked with you for a long time and knowing uh the culture of that company, that's still pretty much the same when you go into the uh the offices on, you know, the offices in midtown Midtown Chicago there. Um it's still blasting music. It's still just uh a really good place to hang out, frankly, and the way you guys have built it out. So that makes sense to me. So um you're the architect of so many innovative hence your title innovative Redwood platforms, most notably Redwood Connect, the integration layer. So you and I have done a bunch of demos and briefings and all these kinds of things and you always have a great analogy for it. So can you give us a music analogy for Redwood Connect?

SPEAKER_05 23:25

And I promise that you can use uh Legos if you really have to uh well Legos are fun I go with uh octopuses and tentacles sometimes but with music it's and it's what we do now right uh you know we've we've done work for getting recognition as a 4 PL but it's it's all about orchestration right and um you know I I argue it's an analogy but it's really not right like you know for those familiar with our industry right like three PLs are the third party between shippers and carriers and you know there's a third party or you could argue warehousing. And then the fourth party right it's like what's that? And it's really like more of an intelligence layer um and more of a place where you can think about the big picture and orchestrate these complex solutions. And so for us right if you think about orchestrating you know the the you know the folks in the orchestra and how they play and what they're playing and which section starts and stops and all of that it's what we do with data. It's what we do with our our our service offerings, right? And the logistics offerings we provide, you know, the way we integrate to our customer systems, deal with their data and billions of transactions a month and you know billions of dollars of freight moving and you know you're orchestrating it. And it's how do you do massively big things at scale and control it is a really fun thing that I like to work on. And I feel really fortunate that we've had the growth and the funding and the opportunity to make something like this happen. And it's it's kind of wild right so many people have been part of you know taking this idea of moving really complex orchestration away from traditional technology stakeholders and into the hands of logistics experts so that anyone can orchestrate right and and drive value the same way that you'd want to make music, right? I think it's easier than Ableton, right, or using something like that. But it's uh it's it's a lot of fun and it it lets you put together what you want for the sounds that you want, for the outcomes that you want, for the feelings you want and it's pretty darn cool.

SPEAKER_00 25:35

Eric, I love how you use that that term orchestration, right? Because in my in now philosophy I talk about that how supply chains have to shift from the the old linear supply chain models they have where functions are siloed, data are siloed and and it doesn't give the companies the whatever you call agility, resilience, ability to react very quickly to all these disruptions that we're seeing out there in the industry. But you truly have to look at how do you actually get to tools to partners to models that allow you to orchestrate like a symphonic orchestra, right? You have 140 odd musicians they're all playing different things at the same time but there's this one guy in front that perfectly orchestrates that so instead of hearing like all these shrieking things going on at the same time it's one harmonious thing. And that is the beauty. I think that's the true analogy between supply chains today and sometimes the classical music that you and I grew up with because I'm very similar background my parents it was classical music it was the Beatles it was the Rolling Stones. I remember when I turned 12 or 13 and someone gave me a Sony Walkman if you remember that first time I had that on and the first song I heard blasting out of that Sony Walkman was ACDC Hells Bells. And growing up with just classical music and the Beatles I go like I don't know what the hell that was but I love it. Give me more of that. And then I think the second song was like Iron Maiden Run to the Hills and a whole new world opened up from the more conservative background of music to where we are today. Now I think Will you talked a little bit about it about Redwood, Redwood Connect and obviously my background a gardener I used to create these things called magic quadrants there was a brand new magic one that was just released end of last year for exactly that 4 PLs now I know that was quite a journey because I know you guys have been on the journey for a long time. You might not always have called it 4 PL maybe that was a term that someone made up and only even think Gardner made that up they did have a magic one for 3pls and then they figured out there is something that's not a 3PL that's like a step further that helps with that orchestration.

SPEAKER_05 27:48

So tell us a little bit about that journey the Redwood journey but also the journey that led to Redwood now being part of that magic quadrant from Gardner oh man um how do I compress 20 years into this answer um well actually going back really quickly when you mentioned um listening to the walkman I remember having headphones like that and I had my first portable CD player uh and I bought um the White album and when you hear come together uh in your headphones for the first time and you're like 12 years old it was wild. Um although my first CD I think was Dr. Dre the Chronic. So we'll we'll we'll we'll go back but good taste good taste. It's all over the place. But on the on the journey for 4 PL, right? So like I kind of mentioned my story and what I walked into originally was a brokerage. And you walk into this brokerage right and we expanded from there because there's all this opportunity to to grow right and and to work with your customers because you build these great relationships. So the next thing was they're like hey you know what else can we do? And we're asking what else can we do? And we looked at their data and um that was the genesis of us like well can we manage transportation? Can we implement systems? Can we find savings and figure out how to automate at scale? And to fast forward several years, right, Redwood became this business of kind of three segments called move, manage and innovate right move is our brokerage manage is manage transportation and innovate which is the business unit that I lead now is our um you know professional services supply chain technology and our SaaS with Redwood Connect right our platform as a service and all of that three things that we live together, right? And then you keep talking about this and the different value prop depending on what kind of shipper you are. It's a very long elevator pitch, right? So over the years we were trying to figure that out um and and say like who are we and how do we tell the world who we are and we tried coming up with our own terminology at first um and we called it L Pass uh which was logistics platform as a service right it was a platform where you know you can leverage the technology to connect anything you want it's what we're doing now it just had a different name. Some people thought it was French and was La Paz uh which which didn't go well. But also you know you're trying to explain a new word right um and we don't obviously have the the depth of reach of a Gartner right and or the breadth of reach of a Gartner. So um you know as we started working with them um at first you know we're explaining this whole thing and this whole model and what we do and our platform and our open ecosystem approach and how you can connect anything. And they're like you're a 4 PL and immediately like I got negative vibes because like 4 PL I'm like that's an accentured term from the late 90s that means a consultant of consultants and that's not who we are and we're not a body shop just trying to you know put a bunch of folks on prem and take over how you do things like it's really flexible and malleable. And they said no you know 4 PL is you know like we talked about earlier you know they orchestrate supply chains and you know they come up with these complex solutions. And so like all right except you know for us it's being a little different right we we're open instead of going on a we can get into the tech right but a proprietary stack right we with Redwood Connect we connect everything and will this is where the Legos come back in. But um but the journey was explaining who we are enough times to enough people that talk to enough people and getting all that feedback and listening to the synthesis and understanding who you are and at first you don't want to be labeled you know because you're like I'm different I'm unique we do it differently you know F everyone else you know we we can we can do this the way that you know we think is right but there's really something to having a name for a thing that you do knowing who your competitors are understanding your space within a space what makes you different and giving people something to anchor to so you can compare yourself as well um and it's been great you know and now you can have a quick conversation explain who you are explain a little bit of difference between you and some of your awesome peers right that do great work um and get to work you know it's a great way you recap that right and I I will say just as a comment to that you never want to be a category of one because the chances are also that maybe that's not what people are looking for.

SPEAKER_00 32:12

I remember when I was still at Gartner and there was a vendor I'm not gonna name any names but they're like we are a I'll call it some kind of collaboration platform. And I said I understand what you guys mean with that but you also have to understand that there isn't a customer out there in the world that's going to Google collaboration blah blah blah platform. So you have to kind of make it you know understandable that someone is looking for something it's like music right if I can say I invented a whole new category but if we go and look for music maybe we go well on on Spotify what do we look for right we say it's rock or it's pop or it's there's categories. And if you attach yourself to a category it also allows a customer uh an end user of that music to go and find that a lot quicker that's just my two cents.

SPEAKER_01 32:59

Yeah totally agree well yeah that's funny I like that analogy bark because it made me think of uh one of my favorite bands ever the the drive by truckers who are somewhat popular you know they're definitely a kind of a cult band but one of the reasons they're not more popular is they refuse to label themselves they tried to call them Southern rock and their leader Patterson Hoodie would get pissed. He's like we are not Southern Rock we're we're punk if anything and then they're like okay you're punk it's like no we're not punk we're postmodern or whatever you know and you do have to eventually say that you're something again so that people can find you and listen to your music and you know even if you're where do you put a song like Bob? Oh I mean Bob's a country song 100% country song. Yeah we'll put that in the playlist guys that's a that's a good one that's a Mike Cooley classic. Love that one. So going back to Redwood a little bit Eric obviously we've uh been working together a a minute and you were one of the first people in supply chain that I knew actually maybe even of anyone that sort of introduced me to AI. It's been like a couple of years now it's everywhere and everybody's using it and whatever, but you've been using it for a couple years. So very soon your Redwood is putting out an AI readiness paper for the supply or research paper for the supply chain.

SPEAKER_05 34:21

Can you give us like a sneak preview before it comes out yeah I mean I think it's like anything else right um take something with a lot of hype, right? Take something with the potential to massively disrupt uh and then try to inject it into businesses that have existing systems of people processing tech that have to figure out how to change a tugboat whether you're a small company or a massive enterprise and you know like I the bigger thing with AI is not the tech it's change management for established businesses right you could you could have a different conversation about the one person startups and leveraging like we could go deep on that. But for an organization right that needs AI, you have to think about so much more than the tech. You know, and so it's it's really around you know how do you manage it? How do you look at its value? How do you measure what you're doing today so that you know that you can actually show your CFO an ROI and have value against it. How do you know what kind of investments I know this sounds you know oxymoronic but what kind of investments in people do you need in order to pull off an AI strategy? And the answer is not zero, right? It's uh uh it's actually a good amount right um we actually just did a study with uh or a panel with McKinsey where for about every buck you put into uh uh AI for the tech, you should expect to pay about three bucks for people. Um you know because you have to take that knowledge and you have to figure out how to send it horizontally and vertically within your org. And people will make unbelievable discoveries and capability discoveries with AI that can come from anywhere within the org and what do you do with that? So the paper to your question will is like kind of a primer on the art of the possible but also a little bit of a you know how do we deal with this with established organizations where this is coming at us you know exponentially faster and faster you you could argue you know every month um and people are using it on their desktop you know and I'm not talking about desktop GPT and Claude and stuff right we're talking about like agentic enterprise transformation and you know um you know what do you do with the knowledge and the context of your business and memory at scale and all these things there's a lot right and so there's some foundational pillars that you really got to think of as a business before you even get started. And you know you know surprise surprise it's a uh it's an evolving story for for everybody out there.

SPEAKER_00 36:50

Eric some some great points and I feel like somehow you were in my AI masterclass which I just did a few few uh days ago for a whole bunch of leaders right and where I kind of said the same thing. AI is not a technology issue right or the failure at AI it's a leadership challenge a leadership issue and you have to put the right things in place. And so what I see is still kind of a deficit with most companies most companies are thinking about AI, where they can use it, maybe how they can create the value out of it. What's really frightening is that none of the organizations have really figured out what is their workforce going to look like in three to five years from now how do I get there? How do I hire these people? How do I train them? And by the way, how do I keep the people with the institutional knowledge? Because if you go too fast with AI, people might say it's just a matter of time they're going to replace me with AI if you don't approach it correctly. And so I'm just gonna leave before I get the boot. So I think you guys are in a great position as a partner with companies that don't just provide technology but provide services and technology to kind of help them with one the talent development but also you guys have talent. So tell us a little bit how Redwood is thinking about not just the technology and how you innovate that through like you said agentic AI, AI agents, but even from a services and a people perspective to truly partner with with companies to help them accelerate that versus like what you said if you're just a pure tech company or pure AI company trying to do something that's similar.

SPEAKER_05 38:25

Yeah well I want to go back to your prior point on org design and and hit that and then talk about you know the services model. But on on org design it's fascinating right we've had this traditional pyramid for you know over a hundred years of you know starting with the CEO right and then you've got your org chart and AI has the opportunity to really disrupt that right so there's all these conversations on you know is the org chart in the future going to look like an hourglass? Is it going to be a diamond right where you don't need a bunch of folks at the bottom and the middle gets wider. The answer is nobody knows, right? And it probably depends on what you're trying to accomplish is going to be the answer. But the way I kind of look at the first part of your question is I see this as all opportunity and not just because you know I'm on the tech side and all that kind of stuff, but I don't know how much you use AI, but I'm running faster than I ever have before. I'm doing more than I ever have before and we need people to keep up with all the stuff that we're doing at a faster velocity. But it's exhausting sometimes right and so you're thinking you know how do we manage the org to handle all of this faster velocity of things that we can crank out whether it's code and development or you know value on a professional services side or the ability to manage more freight at the same time and so then you start thinking about well are people going to get you know an agentic co-pilot that sits with them and learns them and helps them work faster? Okay, well what if that person leaves the organization? Does that knowledge go with them? Does it stay with the org? What if uh you know we we have an agentic action on its own, right? Something that represents the business and is handling your call center who manages that agent right who's thinking about it as an employee which it kind of is what if it does something wrong does it talk to agentic HR, right? Like who's managing these things? How do they work together? Orchestration, right speaking of that, is a huge thing in AI and who's managing all of these things. But the org chart in and of itself is going to be going through a massive transformation and the tools that we give people and the tools that the business has to manage the org chart at scale and we'll see if it becomes an hourglass or a diamond or stays a pyramid and all of these things are just unknown and so many people are trying to figure that out right now and we could talk about that for hours. But that to me is really interesting which then goes to your second point which is having services yeah I mean it starts as basic as where are you now? Where do you want to go, right? And what are you trying to accomplish? And honestly it's no different than thinking about for a supply chain leader putting in a TMS or a WMS, which is how do I do things today? And then if I'm willing to make an investment in AI or TMS or anything, do I have some sort of journey that I'm going to go down that not only paints a picture of what it's going to be, but helps me with buy-in and adoption and you know evangelism to other leaders, getting them to understand the art of the possible, measuring how we do it today, putting in the experiments to prove it out, seeing what works, deciding what to ramp up, what to kill quickly, how to keep going from there. Like I think you can really see quickly why I was saying like a buck for technology, three dollars for people there is a lot that has to go in to change management and thinking about you know if we're going to do this, just giving everyone Claude and ChatGPT and saying have fun, like it's not going to work. They'll write emails faster and maybe create AI slop. It's funny I'm and I'm guilty of it too, right? But you ask someone for you know their opinion on something and now you're getting like 28 page briefs on stuff with you know and and then and then I'm using AI to give me the summary of this thing because I don't have time to read it. And that's a weird thing to think about. So to your point Bart yeah like the services side of it is it's important because we're all kind of on this journey together, you know and if anyone says they have the answer and they figured it out, you know, I think they're selling snake oil.

SPEAKER_00 42:37

I I think you're true, right? It's a little bit like we're on our way to Mars no one's on the way back. We're all still going there we're all still discovering it. But I think you make a really good point is we're all on this journey together, right? I think the the ability to collaborate and communicate around it, having the discussions, right? Even in your own organization, having your partners come in, talk to you, talk to operations, there's so much like when people go like I don't know where to start bring people in, have the conversation. You'll figure it out very quickly but sometimes I feel like with all technology we have sometimes we've lost the ability to just communicate when I start in the 90s if we didn't know something we didn't have Slack we didn't have teams we didn't have any of that I go out of my door office go to the other guy and say hey I got this issue or we got this issue. How do we solve it? We sat down just two people we got it figured out right communication skills and and the way you get critical thinking which by the way future students will need more of is going to be so important when we talk about talent.

SPEAKER_05 43:42

I mean I couldn't agree more I mean just to piggyback on that we we still have that challenge today right we're not forced you still have the COVID at home work you know we let people move to wherever they wanted there's a tremendous strength in that and you give people a lot of flexibility but we try to bring people together for exactly that reason and fly folks in because getting Getting up and walking over and talking to someone and whiteboarding is still way harder on Zoom or on Teams or whatever you use. And that's it it couldn't be more true thinking about what it takes to scale and solve the hardest problems. AI is awesome and you can learn a lot very, very quickly, and it's incredible, right? Um, but to run a business still requires people. Um so speaking of Welcome to Earth, my son just got home and pulled my door.

SPEAKER_00 44:32

Good one. Well, I saw you with your plectrum in your hand. You're you're getting ready to play us a song.

SPEAKER_01 44:38

We gotta figure out how to do that. I can't uh yeah, it won't translate very well, but uh, you know, the intro music, that was my song, so we'll take that.

SPEAKER_00 44:47

That's right. And maybe, maybe a little uh promo here, because you're doing a concert early June, right? It's for one of your your special um charities that you're doing that for. Tell us a little bit about that.

SPEAKER_01 45:00

Yeah, yeah, that's uh June 5th um in Decatur, Georgia, like one mile from my front door. I'll probably walk my dog down there and have dinner after this, to be honest with you. But uh they've got a new stage, and uh, we're kind of the first act on it at the Sun Dogs, and we're doing our Tom Petty show. And uh it benefits this, this uh it's Amplify Music Festival, and it benefits all local charities around Decatur, schools, services, uh at-home care, all kinds of great stuff. So that we try to do those things as much as we possibly can. So uh, and it's fun, and everybody should come. It's actually free. All you got to do is ride the MARTA down to Decatur, wherever you are. Maybe not from Chicago, but but Eric's come to this show a few times, actually. Yeah, Eric came a couple years ago and had a ball. It's a great time. So, you know, um Eric, one of the one of the things we staple of this show is gonna be a little advice for the younger generation. And I think everything that we talked about today and everything that you just talked about is such a changing world. And I think about myself and the tasks that I was given when I was 22, 23 years old or whatever, like those tasks are gone. Now those are completely absorbed by AI as far as like, you know, uh doing research and putting together a list and you know, those kinds of things. And uh now when I do interviews, that's actually one of the first questions I ask is like, have you ever worked in an office, ever? And the answer is usually no, you know, because of the the whole COVID work for home. And I do I worry about those folks, to be honest, because as we said today, connection is the key. Like we're talking about with music, it connects people. It when we're in the office at lead coverage, we're always, always playing music, always. And people commenting on it and sharing and learning new stuff. But so what's your advice, right? This is in this crazy changing world, we're hearing about college graduates having a hard time finding gigs. So what do you what do you think as far as navigating this? It's a great question.

SPEAKER_05 47:11

My niece is actually graduating um from Michigan this weekend. Um, and we're having this conversation, you know, she wants to go into law, which is a very interesting time to think about doing that, right? And um, you know, should you go work for a year and get some experience or go travel, you know, if you're fortunate enough to do something like that. And, you know, she's gonna try and and and find a job for a year and just see what the real world is like. And I I think it's I think it's great. And I think I think there's a lot to be said about not being isolated. Um, I think there's a lot to be said about, you know, being part of something, whether it's work or hanging out with other people, right? Like uh being isolated isn't, at least for me, right? Um, some people are great, right? And and they thrive that way and they've been remote workers forever and to each their own, right? Um but for folks that want to be part of uh a growing culture, um, learn through osmosis, hear what people are saying versus living in your bubble, um, go to the office, you know, like get in there and spend some time, even if it's a few days a week, have your face seen, right? Like get in front of people, grab food with people, go hang out with them after work. You're trying to build a community at work just as much as you're trying to build a product or a service or whatever it is, and then extend that community that you're building to your customers. And so a combination of just like being there, plus, you know, you got to be good at it, the 10,000 hour rule. And yeah, even if AI can do your research and write your lists, like read it and understand it. You know, I'm sure you've seen this too with AI, where like, I don't know what it is. I was talking to someone about that the other day. Like, you ask a question and just the fact that the words are streaming to your desktop as it's going through and it's at a rate that certainly you can't type as your brain is like, this is really valuable information. And then you're like, this is great. And then you send it off to someone and like what? And then you read it again, you're like, oh, this is garbage, you know, and you know, like understand what you're working on, you know, like really think about it. And for me at least, you know, I I've always found that I have a hard time really standing behind something until I totally understand it. And it's a strength and a weakness, right? Like sometimes you got to just jump in and do things and and and ride the wave, but other times, you know, at least for me, it's like if I don't fully understand it, I struggle to believe it. Um, and so get in there, work with people, understand what you're working on, understand the business that you're a part of. And then I'd argue the last part is remember that no one has all the answers and everyone's figuring it out as they go along. Um, and if anyone, again, second time I think I've said this on this podcast, if everyone says otherwise, they're lying, you know. So, like just realize that like you're part of a giant ecosystem of people trying to do stuff together. And so if you're trying to do stuff together, go be with those people as much as you can and do stuff together. Um, it pays massive dividends, and I don't think that's gonna change with AI.

SPEAKER_00 50:13

Great answer. Now we're gonna end the show with some music questions, but I had one question before we get to those. Um, and I think we're gonna end the show with your song, keep it between the lines. So, my question is Um I see what your answer is. The lines, are the lines changing? Are they blurring? Are they staying the same? If we look at it from supply chain, because we live in such a different world, right? I mean, it's like when I started three and a half decades ago, the world was a lot simpler. Supply chains weren't that complex, they were a lot more regional. We had long lead times to deliver product. Now it's like it comes before you even ordered it. It's that fast, speed, and obviously everyone knows all the disruptions. So when we talk about keep it between the lines from a supply chain perspective, Eric, what do you see those lines being? And how do you um put the right steps and the right strategy in place to actually keep you in between them?

SPEAKER_05 51:15

Um I wasn't expecting that question, so that's great. Um, I think if I think about that, the lines of supply chain itself are constantly changing, maybe even multiple times a day. And I think that's what makes this business so fun for us, right? The rules, tariffs, international trade challenges, you know, capacity over the markets, technology, like all those things are changing so fast and constantly changing. Um and like I said, that's what makes this fun, because you're constantly solving hard problems, which is another reason I'm not, you know, thinking that AI is apocalyptic. Um, but on the parts that don't change, be useful and uh have fun and be respectful. You know, like if you can do that constantly and just be like, what are people's problems? Am I being helpful? Am I kind of you know fun to do it with while we're solving problems and using our brains and building relationships and just going down this journey together? Um those lines don't change. Um, you know, so enjoy the fact that our lines do change. If supply chain's lines didn't change, we wouldn't have jobs. Um, so I'm thankful for that chaos. Um, but on the other end of the spectrum, be useful and have fun while doing it. And you know, it's all good. Have a good time.

SPEAKER_00 52:42

Eric, I love that answer. I love the positivity and that that outlook on supply chains because I think all of us have that, right? Supply chains, it is has that thing that the the problem, the same problem never occurs twice, and it keeps us on our toe and it keeps us. So the thing is we don't have to be able to predict the future, but we'll be willing to if we're willing to change and we're willing to adapt and willing to continue to learn, we're in a good spot. So, Will, let's take us back to some of the music and some of the cool questions you have for us to finish up on.

SPEAKER_01 53:17

Oh, absolutely. So uh, Eric, you know, I love Chicago. I love coming up there, and it's such a great music city. People probably know that. As we talked about, it's got a just a really compelling and long blues history that goes back, you know, to the early 50s probably. Um you go see a lot of shows, which I love about you. You go to see a lot of shows in great venues like the salt shed you mentioned, Chicago Theater, the Rosemont, you know, FALEA Hall, all of those. So, what's the most recent thing you've seen? What's your favorite thing you've seen in 2026? And what's next? Three parter.

SPEAKER_05 53:57

Oh uh said recent first, yeah. Um the most recent thing I saw, and I didn't expect to like it that much, wasn't actually in Chicago. I saw Elenium in Vegas at the sphere, uh, which is EDM, and it blew my mind. Um, I didn't expect to like it as much as I did, and it was wild. Um uh my favorite this year was probably Humphreys McGee and Andy Frasco and the UN at the salt shed. Uh, I saw that in January with my buddy Doug, and it was a lot of fun. Um man, do they do covers well? Speaking of covers, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 54:39

There's a whole album of it.

SPEAKER_05 54:40

Some uh Zonky or something like that.

SPEAKER_01 54:43

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 54:43

Uh and then um what am I seeing next? I'm seeing Dumpster Funk uh at Garcia's soon, um, which is you know, rock and RB and some funk and uh Ivan Neville, right? Uh Ian, like it's I saw them once at a buddy's bachelor party, and they opened uh or Sharon Jones uh and the Dab Kings opened for them. Um so they're just awesome. Um, but yeah, um, I don't know, I'll see anything. Um, and then actually that's not true. The day before that, I'm seeing O'Teal and Friends. Um uh so you know the uh plays bass for the Dead and Company, yeah. And the Almond Brothers. And the Almond Brothers, thank you.

SPEAKER_00 55:27

Yeah, so so Eric, and and we'll mention there's so many different venues in Chicago, such a music rich city. Is there a place, a venue that's your favorite?

SPEAKER_05 55:36

Salt shed. It's great. It's it's wild. I mean, for a small one, Thalia Hall, um Salt Shed is it's it's a fantastic newer venue that I just I love.

SPEAKER_00 55:48

I haven't been, but um the fact that you didn't even need a second to think about it makes me want to now go to that. So uh I know I'll be in Chicago early January. I just went twice for a couple of advisory boards, but um I'll have to go check it out.

SPEAKER_01 56:02

Definitely do. Yeah, Eric. Um, so that's great. And uh one of the things I wanted to ask you is so I I know you're like this too. Whenever I'm in a city, whenever I'm traveling, wherever it is, uh I want to find the bands in town app people, by the way, will tell you how to do this, it will tell you what's playing wherever you are. I like to uh seek out music in any city that I'm visiting. Like you and I went and saw Kurt Weil in uh in Orlando that time, which was amazing. So, how important it is it to you to find new music wherever you are?

SPEAKER_05 56:38

It's really important, and um it's a place that, like, for me at least, is where my brain can decompress and process and think, right? Like, I don't go there to think, but like I just get in a trance when I'm listening to live music and things that are way deep in the memory banks all of a sudden start reorganizing themselves and you know come up with clarity um when I listen to music. And I always walk out just feeling refreshed and that I understand something better that maybe I wasn't even thinking about. Um so it's really important, and live music is unlike anything else. Um, so everyone should go do it as much as they can.

SPEAKER_00 57:19

Awesome. Well, Eric, thank you so much for being our first guest and our first ever episode of the supply chain rock stars. And Will, why don't you intro our outro song?

SPEAKER_01 57:30

We are gonna play right here Keep It Between the Lands off of A Sailor's Guide to Earth, an amazing album. All of Sturgil's albums are amazing, actually. But uh, we're gonna play this out for Eric Rimpel. Thank you, Eric. Thanks for this. This was fun.